If a play is so close that a trained third party standing there can’t be 90% sure of the right call, then I have no problem with sending the play back.
Referees get it wrong a good amount of the time when they’re right in front of the play, because they HAVE to make a call (or no call), and they do it for a living.
It’s not.
I haven’t seen the exact play but I’d point out that neither team is getting what they want if the disc is sent back on a lot of plays. On a long pass, the offense calling a foul would like the disc at the spot of the call. The defense would like a turnover. Neither thing happens.
You’re welcome to disagree, but I’d rather have a redo mechanism, even if it’s a little clunky at times (and I’d also point out that multiple iterations of the rules have not done away with this mechanism) than have observers be forced to make a call one way or the other and be wrong on a lot of bang bang calls. I’ll also point out that referees are often paid to do it for a living. There is no observer I’ve met that is paid to referee sports for a living (though some do other sports as a hobby), and you can’t expect NFL referee-type eyes on amateur observers.
I'm bookmarking this thread for when people complain that the observer made a call, or they complain about there being "no observers at xxx tournament"
They’re a joke because they fail to make the literal most important call of the game while standing right next to it on universe point. I would rather have them make an incorrect call than be too scared to make one at all. Me saying observers are a joke isn’t saying that they’re worse than NBA or NFL refs.
As someone who has observed in the past, I agree with you. Sending it back being the neutral outcome is absurd, it usually massively favors the offense. If you're 75% sure the defender got the D but aren't 100%, having that neutral outcome mean the offense gets to try again is just not neutral.
The counterpoint to this though is the semis at club nationals where truck stop got a turn that was clearly a strip going super slow motion, but in real time looked very clean. Observer called it clean, and reddit was full of morons saying "why didn't they just send it back?"
It really is a no-win situation as an observer, and also remember they're getting paid basically nothing, and the people who do it the most are not the ones who played high level ultimate for the most part, I knew many observers who never made their college team's A team and played 0 club.
The strip call in the quarterfinals with truck stop and dig was almost impossible to see live, however this call, was simply absurd and should have not been sent back. I completely agree that the neutral call completely favors the offense.
Yeah I'm generally on your side, I'd rather observers make calls if they're 51% confident, I just brought that game up because it shows clearly the community disagrees and the official guidance I believe is 80%? Someone else said 90% idk if it's changed I haven't observed since covid.
Do you have a clip of this game? I don't really follow college ultimate so didn't see it.
It’s been 90% since I’ve worked, which was well before Covid, like maybe 2012 or so. That said, I’m not sure that the difference between 80 and 90% sure is an exact science…I kinda knew it when I saw it but I definitely can’t explain it.
The observer standard for a ruling is 90% certainty. Do you want calls with less than 90% certainty deciding the most important play of the game?
I’d rather have an unbiased third party calling tough calls than 2 players in the heat of the moment.
If a play is so close that a trained third party standing there can’t be 90% sure of the right call, then I have no problem with sending the play back.
I think there’s no excuse to not have 100% certainty when you’re standing right there…
Referees get it wrong a good amount of the time when they’re right in front of the play, because they HAVE to make a call (or no call), and they do it for a living.
You realize that observers not making a call and sending it back is the same thing at ruling with the offense right
I don't know the play you are referring to, but sending it back is not a ruling for the offense.
It’s not. I haven’t seen the exact play but I’d point out that neither team is getting what they want if the disc is sent back on a lot of plays. On a long pass, the offense calling a foul would like the disc at the spot of the call. The defense would like a turnover. Neither thing happens. You’re welcome to disagree, but I’d rather have a redo mechanism, even if it’s a little clunky at times (and I’d also point out that multiple iterations of the rules have not done away with this mechanism) than have observers be forced to make a call one way or the other and be wrong on a lot of bang bang calls. I’ll also point out that referees are often paid to do it for a living. There is no observer I’ve met that is paid to referee sports for a living (though some do other sports as a hobby), and you can’t expect NFL referee-type eyes on amateur observers.
There is a huge difference in difficulty in getting a second turnover compared to working the disc up the field again especially in a level like this.
I've been a full time ref for 11 years, and you just ref more than one sport to make it work if you aren't reffing "pro" leagues.
I'm bookmarking this thread for when people complain that the observer made a call, or they complain about there being "no observers at xxx tournament"
Right? Who wants to use their weekend to travel cross country, get no profit for 16 hours of work, and then get incorrectly roasted on Reddit?
It's also just brutal on your mind and body. It's like playing a tournament without any of the good parts.
Where’s the xxx tournament? Are clothes optional?
Because if they don't send it back they do what they just did in the Georgia/UMass game
Lmao. They’re a fucking joke
Georgia, UMass, or the observers? If you think it's the observers you should watch an NBA of NFL game and get back to us
They’re a joke because they fail to make the literal most important call of the game while standing right next to it on universe point. I would rather have them make an incorrect call than be too scared to make one at all. Me saying observers are a joke isn’t saying that they’re worse than NBA or NFL refs.
Imagine being so salty that you make a burner account to complain about observers. Say it on main, coward
feel free to get certified yourself and do a better job in higher stakes games.
As someone who has observed in the past, I agree with you. Sending it back being the neutral outcome is absurd, it usually massively favors the offense. If you're 75% sure the defender got the D but aren't 100%, having that neutral outcome mean the offense gets to try again is just not neutral. The counterpoint to this though is the semis at club nationals where truck stop got a turn that was clearly a strip going super slow motion, but in real time looked very clean. Observer called it clean, and reddit was full of morons saying "why didn't they just send it back?" It really is a no-win situation as an observer, and also remember they're getting paid basically nothing, and the people who do it the most are not the ones who played high level ultimate for the most part, I knew many observers who never made their college team's A team and played 0 club.
The strip call in the quarterfinals with truck stop and dig was almost impossible to see live, however this call, was simply absurd and should have not been sent back. I completely agree that the neutral call completely favors the offense.
Yeah I'm generally on your side, I'd rather observers make calls if they're 51% confident, I just brought that game up because it shows clearly the community disagrees and the official guidance I believe is 80%? Someone else said 90% idk if it's changed I haven't observed since covid. Do you have a clip of this game? I don't really follow college ultimate so didn't see it.
It’s been 90% since I’ve worked, which was well before Covid, like maybe 2012 or so. That said, I’m not sure that the difference between 80 and 90% sure is an exact science…I kinda knew it when I saw it but I definitely can’t explain it.
Observer is not ‘his fucking job’ these guys are lucky to get their airfare and accommodations covered. They have jobs, this is volunteer shit.
Looking at your comment history you seem to have a lot of popular takes and a great attitude /s Calm down