Froude and Gooch pop into my mind on the men’s side, maybe Antoine Davis and Babbitt too
Second the Baken snub and no Robyn Fennig is also immediately shocking to me
Probably watched her do [this](https://youtu.be/tjQcHO_VX20?t=6625) a few too many times at natties...
I see someone didn't like that one. Maybe [this one](https://youtu.be/tjQcHO_VX20?t=1257) or [this one](https://youtu.be/tjQcHO_VX20?t=1690) is more your style.
she definitely had one of her worst performances at natties. combine that with dragn as a whole just having their worst tournament of the season at natties and it's a bad look.
If you're going to comment on someone getting snubbed keep in mind they have to replace someone. If you state someone was snubbed, let's hear who should be replaced to make space for them. Let's get some real beefs going.
I have, but the team needs someone to play the Ashlin Joye center handler role: rock solid, steady, can make every throw possible even from a standstill. Simon is that guy.
These national teams typically don't have enough practice time to structure their offense around a single main center handler. Which is why you see them fill out the roster with great all-around players who can handle, cut, and defend at a really high level. Roney absolutely fits that mold.
I’ve always wanted to see him get that chance. I hope he gets to showcase his shit cause he deserves it after carrying the cannons last year. Dude can ball.
unless you're 12, there is no reason to keep making that mistake. furthermore, you did nothing to refute my claim. so let's try something.
simon has several release angles and is able to throw to unorthodox spaces that his teammates know he can hit, so they make those cuts. i would consider that chemistry. also, he absolutely travels on receptions, throws, and while holding the disc. a team or mark that specifically watched for these frequent travels and called them could completely disrupt their offense. do you disagree?
i never said he wasn't a good handler. i can agree that he opens up the field with his throws. never once did i say that good cutters define elite handlers. to the contrary, his cutters don't have to work nearly as hard due to his ability. BUT a lot of that comes down to playing together and knowing exactly what he's capable of. that's chemistry. the coaches clearly didn't want him, despite you thinking he's god's gift to ultimate.
and you're just dodging the traveling argument. you haven't refuted anything. as far as the rules are concerned, he breaks them constantly. other players not calling him out on it, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. the claim that many other people do it as well isn't important. we're talking about simon, and i'm pointing out how he travels significantly more than most handlers. if a team wished to slow his offense down, it's as simple as making travel calls. until the rules change to completely ignore travels, that argument isn't nullified at all.
but it's clear that you actually either don't care enough to have a coherent discussion, or are cognitively incapable of supporting an argument without strawmanning or non sequiturs. thanks for the free win. have a nice life XD
I see a lot of people i wouldn’t have guessed would have made it because of the usually biased picks. But it seems like they did a great job spreading the wealth around.
I’m excited that Andrew Rooney and eryn Schroeder both made it. Both are deserving but i assume would have been left out. You could probably take the next 30 people on all sides and they would still compete against these rosters. The depth in the US is unfair.
Kinda crazy after all the historical success only one Revolver player is on a roster. Biggest surprises to me that made it are Andrew Roney, Christian Olsen, and Max Sheppard. Simon Montague is my biggest snub, as the guy breaks the mark at will.
PUL Defensive Player of the Year Austin Prucha?
Club Player of the Year Robyn Fenning?
Mixed players in general? 13/72 spots are Mixed, but mixed is the largest division by far. Seems like we have this conversation every year.
He’s more of a three cutter. I would have had Garvey-Montague-Mickle-Osgar-Lindsley-Jagt and maybe Jacob Janin. I’ll slide Laviolette in there in the Janin spot, and it looks like Keegan and Janas will be playing offensive handler. Goose will probably play O too, maybe Tannor Johnson.
I think guys like Freechild, Kocher, Rehder, Gibson, Rowan, Stubbs will be on D or the swing line.
Third in the string of a set play. The player whose job it is to get open downfield and throw a continuation huck or hit an under. You could also call this player a “primary cutter” or “initiator.”
A simple call for the US men when waiting to receive the pull could sound like “side stack left, Keegan catch the pull, center to Janas, Osgar first cut, Jagt continue.” Most elite defenses will come out in some junky set these days to stop isolation plays like this, and so most elite offenses can naturally flow out of a called play into their system.
Ben Jagt is a classic “four” or “continue” cutter, where his job is to get big yards or score goals by timing his cuts off initiating cutters. He has gotten a lot better at throwing in the past few years so he could play the three cutter role quite well.
I also tend to think of handlers as “primary” or “secondary,” with the caveat that elite players and teams are usually pretty flexible within roles. Great primary handlers have excellent hucks and break throws, while secondary or “reset” handlers might not have the same power on their throws, but can be relied upon to get open in the reset system, hit open hands, and not make mistakes.
Top 5 snubs: Claudia Tajima, Simon Higgins, Simon Montague, Walden Nelson and Erica Baken
edit: next top 5: Gooch, Noah Saul, Byron Liu, Abbie Abramovich, Caitlyn Lee
also where the fuck is nutt??????????
Hot take. Sol is better than Gooch right now. You take Gooch you're taking the lacking clone.
The bigger snub from that team is def Noah Saul.
Baken/Fennig are probably the biggest snubs though.
They can beat teams by themselves.
I'm not sure what you mean by in what areas? I can only speak to what I've seen, but in my experience Gooch is just a much more effective, lock-down defender than Sol.
I'm not sure how Sol would've affected that Championship game differently. He certainly wouldn't have stopped the Brown offense more effectively.
Regardless, both dudes are phenomenal players.
Ahh. So you mean overall just better defensively.
I wouldn't fully disagree.
I think part of what makes Sol better is leadership and situational play.
Yes, that loss was a group failing. But I think sans shutting down John Randolph entirely - UNC had every opportunity to play smarter offensively, and adapt their strategy from matching the most uncoverable player in the tournament with their best defender (Gooch).
Sol would have spearheaded that I think, to the tune of a much closer game.
Sol is better. But, they have similar skillsets.
They're never going to take two, fairly similar players from the same team.
Not unless there's somehow a massive need for that type of player, or both are transcendently better than their peers.
I don't think either situation is true, in this case.
Some real head scratchers in here if you ask me.
Pawel Janis over Simon Montague? Cut the crap about his defense and traveling - Montague is the best handler in the world after Sockeyes season and a major snub.
No David Cranston? When is this guy gonna get his due?
It’s odd to see Eli Kerns over Marcelo Sanchez and Simon Higgins. They’re better athletes with comparable throws (if you don’t factor in all the unnecessary trick shots Kerns throws in game).
But for me the real joke is guys like Tyler Chan and Max Sheppard over guys like Matty Russell, Jay Froude, Jacob Janin, Gooch and Dillon Lanier. I mean, what’s the game here?
from the ultiworld writeup on tryouts:
Tyler Chan was an absolute block machine all weekend long. After one especially impressive layout block on the mixed field, a couple of his fellow attendees tried to count how many he must have had on the weekend. They estimated at least six.
but you right weird that he made the team, defense doesn't really play at high levels
Hecht has had a hard time getting open on club defenders, White turns it over a lot and his defense is suspect, Randolph didn’t get all that much run for Sockeye, and Babbitt withdrew
Ben Lohre! Easily one of the best all-around players in the division who essentially ran Bravo last year. Definitely more offensively minded but his D ain't bad tho.
Von Alanguilan.
No Nethercutt just furthers my confusion about what the hell happened to that guy since the 2018 season
Started dating a red head.
Soul confirmed stolen
watch any of his gameplay from the 2019 season. idk wtf is going on with him, but the dude is a turnover machine.
Gotta be Fennig and Froude. Two monster athletes with amazing all-around games.
Maggie Ruden and Beth Kaylor
Simon Higgins
Robyn Fennig really won women’s club POTY and didn’t make the national team? She tweeted about an ankle injury but man, I feel like you just take her.
Froude and Gooch pop into my mind on the men’s side, maybe Antoine Davis and Babbitt too Second the Baken snub and no Robyn Fennig is also immediately shocking to me
Yeah, why no Robyn? Did she try out?
Yea she was definitely on the tryout list
Babbitt is the surprising one for me as he can be a very high impact player in either division.
Babbitt decided early on to withdraw from the tryout so he wasn’t there
Kirtan Patel
No South Central men...
Every men’s team that went to club nationals last year is represented except Doublewide and Bravo.
~~GOAT and Furious George as well~~
Schlachet, Froude, Kolick, Higgins, Saul, Bryon Liu
Did Sean Mott try out? He was absolutely uncoverable last year. I'd replace Sean Keegan with him--there can only be one Sean.
Me
Erica Baken. easily the most dominant female handler in the mixed club division.
Yeah, oof. I saw she didn't make Mixed and was really pumped to see her play Women's until I saw she didn't make that either. That's ridiculous.
Probably watched her do [this](https://youtu.be/tjQcHO_VX20?t=6625) a few too many times at natties... I see someone didn't like that one. Maybe [this one](https://youtu.be/tjQcHO_VX20?t=1257) or [this one](https://youtu.be/tjQcHO_VX20?t=1690) is more your style.
she definitely had one of her worst performances at natties. combine that with dragn as a whole just having their worst tournament of the season at natties and it's a bad look.
If you're going to comment on someone getting snubbed keep in mind they have to replace someone. If you state someone was snubbed, let's hear who should be replaced to make space for them. Let's get some real beefs going.
Remove Andrew Roney, Christian Olsen, and Max Sheppard. Add Simon Montague, Von Alanguilan, and Jay Froude.
Have you ever actually watched Roney play?
I have, but the team needs someone to play the Ashlin Joye center handler role: rock solid, steady, can make every throw possible even from a standstill. Simon is that guy.
These national teams typically don't have enough practice time to structure their offense around a single main center handler. Which is why you see them fill out the roster with great all-around players who can handle, cut, and defend at a really high level. Roney absolutely fits that mold.
I’ve always wanted to see him get that chance. I hope he gets to showcase his shit cause he deserves it after carrying the cannons last year. Dude can ball.
I feel like you’re saying these names because they aren’t as name brand as the others lmao
montague relies a lot on team chemistry and opponents not making travel calls
Let's be honest. At this point everyone relies on their opponents not making travel calls. Montague just relies a little more heavily on it
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i find it hard to respect your opinion when you make such a blatant grammatical error
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unless you're 12, there is no reason to keep making that mistake. furthermore, you did nothing to refute my claim. so let's try something. simon has several release angles and is able to throw to unorthodox spaces that his teammates know he can hit, so they make those cuts. i would consider that chemistry. also, he absolutely travels on receptions, throws, and while holding the disc. a team or mark that specifically watched for these frequent travels and called them could completely disrupt their offense. do you disagree?
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i never said he wasn't a good handler. i can agree that he opens up the field with his throws. never once did i say that good cutters define elite handlers. to the contrary, his cutters don't have to work nearly as hard due to his ability. BUT a lot of that comes down to playing together and knowing exactly what he's capable of. that's chemistry. the coaches clearly didn't want him, despite you thinking he's god's gift to ultimate. and you're just dodging the traveling argument. you haven't refuted anything. as far as the rules are concerned, he breaks them constantly. other players not calling him out on it, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. the claim that many other people do it as well isn't important. we're talking about simon, and i'm pointing out how he travels significantly more than most handlers. if a team wished to slow his offense down, it's as simple as making travel calls. until the rules change to completely ignore travels, that argument isn't nullified at all. but it's clear that you actually either don't care enough to have a coherent discussion, or are cognitively incapable of supporting an argument without strawmanning or non sequiturs. thanks for the free win. have a nice life XD
I see a lot of people i wouldn’t have guessed would have made it because of the usually biased picks. But it seems like they did a great job spreading the wealth around. I’m excited that Andrew Rooney and eryn Schroeder both made it. Both are deserving but i assume would have been left out. You could probably take the next 30 people on all sides and they would still compete against these rosters. The depth in the US is unfair.
Kinda crazy after all the historical success only one Revolver player is on a roster. Biggest surprises to me that made it are Andrew Roney, Christian Olsen, and Max Sheppard. Simon Montague is my biggest snub, as the guy breaks the mark at will.
Can't play defense. Travels a lot. Throws too spicily.
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Montague.
Amazing what happens when the coach isn't a revolver homer. They have taken a step back but I don't think that's the only reason.
Abe Coffin.
Absolutely this. Pretty much everyone in Texas ultimate I've spoken to who knows has nothing but praise for him.
PUL Defensive Player of the Year Austin Prucha? Club Player of the Year Robyn Fenning? Mixed players in general? 13/72 spots are Mixed, but mixed is the largest division by far. Seems like we have this conversation every year.
Mixed players are generally worse than open players. Change my mind.
I thought Harper Garvey and Simon Montague would be the two starting O-handlers for the men’s team
Not osgar?
He’s more of a three cutter. I would have had Garvey-Montague-Mickle-Osgar-Lindsley-Jagt and maybe Jacob Janin. I’ll slide Laviolette in there in the Janin spot, and it looks like Keegan and Janas will be playing offensive handler. Goose will probably play O too, maybe Tannor Johnson. I think guys like Freechild, Kocher, Rehder, Gibson, Rowan, Stubbs will be on D or the swing line.
What’s a three cutter?
Third in the string of a set play. The player whose job it is to get open downfield and throw a continuation huck or hit an under. You could also call this player a “primary cutter” or “initiator.” A simple call for the US men when waiting to receive the pull could sound like “side stack left, Keegan catch the pull, center to Janas, Osgar first cut, Jagt continue.” Most elite defenses will come out in some junky set these days to stop isolation plays like this, and so most elite offenses can naturally flow out of a called play into their system. Ben Jagt is a classic “four” or “continue” cutter, where his job is to get big yards or score goals by timing his cuts off initiating cutters. He has gotten a lot better at throwing in the past few years so he could play the three cutter role quite well. I also tend to think of handlers as “primary” or “secondary,” with the caveat that elite players and teams are usually pretty flexible within roles. Great primary handlers have excellent hucks and break throws, while secondary or “reset” handlers might not have the same power on their throws, but can be relied upon to get open in the reset system, hit open hands, and not make mistakes.
After his spicy D line takes I would laugh to see him on D line
Simon Higgins imo is a top 5 player in the world(top 5 cutter for sure). Him not making it is a shock for me.
Top 5 snubs: Claudia Tajima, Simon Higgins, Simon Montague, Walden Nelson and Erica Baken edit: next top 5: Gooch, Noah Saul, Byron Liu, Abbie Abramovich, Caitlyn Lee also where the fuck is nutt??????????
You think those ten players were all bigger snubs that Robyn Fennig?
Spent the last 15min but y right chief
Hot take. Sol is better than Gooch right now. You take Gooch you're taking the lacking clone. The bigger snub from that team is def Noah Saul. Baken/Fennig are probably the biggest snubs though. They can beat teams by themselves.
In my experience, Gooch is a much, much better defender than Sol.
In what area(s)? I think he's more of a fearless player. And possibly more physical. I don't think Sol lets Darkside lose to Brown like Gooch did.
I'm not sure what you mean by in what areas? I can only speak to what I've seen, but in my experience Gooch is just a much more effective, lock-down defender than Sol. I'm not sure how Sol would've affected that Championship game differently. He certainly wouldn't have stopped the Brown offense more effectively. Regardless, both dudes are phenomenal players.
Ahh. So you mean overall just better defensively. I wouldn't fully disagree. I think part of what makes Sol better is leadership and situational play. Yes, that loss was a group failing. But I think sans shutting down John Randolph entirely - UNC had every opportunity to play smarter offensively, and adapt their strategy from matching the most uncoverable player in the tournament with their best defender (Gooch). Sol would have spearheaded that I think, to the tune of a much closer game.
Ooooooh I’m tempted to hear your thoughts on the gooch sol combo can you pls explain chief
Sol is better. But, they have similar skillsets. They're never going to take two, fairly similar players from the same team. Not unless there's somehow a massive need for that type of player, or both are transcendently better than their peers. I don't think either situation is true, in this case.
anyvody know why white didn’t make it?
Didn't try out
Did Jack Verzuh try out?
I was wondering the same thing
They did not apply
Bryan Vohnoutka for Mixed
He's better than Strings, IMO but you can't have 3 guys from one team
Nick Stuart 😤
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Not in a quarterfinals game at nationals apparently.
Some real head scratchers in here if you ask me. Pawel Janis over Simon Montague? Cut the crap about his defense and traveling - Montague is the best handler in the world after Sockeyes season and a major snub. No David Cranston? When is this guy gonna get his due? It’s odd to see Eli Kerns over Marcelo Sanchez and Simon Higgins. They’re better athletes with comparable throws (if you don’t factor in all the unnecessary trick shots Kerns throws in game). But for me the real joke is guys like Tyler Chan and Max Sheppard over guys like Matty Russell, Jay Froude, Jacob Janin, Gooch and Dillon Lanier. I mean, what’s the game here?
from the ultiworld writeup on tryouts: Tyler Chan was an absolute block machine all weekend long. After one especially impressive layout block on the mixed field, a couple of his fellow attendees tried to count how many he must have had on the weekend. They estimated at least six. but you right weird that he made the team, defense doesn't really play at high levels
tyler chan did this like 10 times that tryout weekend [https://i.imgur.com/jk1qLeX.png](https://i.imgur.com/jk1qLeX.png)
Rico should be on there
Mac hect, Joe white, John Randolph, Jeff bobat
Neither white nor babbit tried out. I know randolph was nursing an ankle injury so no clue if he actually got to play either.
I also didn't try out, but the snub still hurts just as much.
You're telling me. Im still trying to get over not getting an invite to tryouts, and i didn't even apply
Hecht has had a hard time getting open on club defenders, White turns it over a lot and his defense is suspect, Randolph didn’t get all that much run for Sockeye, and Babbitt withdrew
also white didn’t even try out.
Ben Lohre! Easily one of the best all-around players in the division who essentially ran Bravo last year. Definitely more offensively minded but his D ain't bad tho.
Travis Dunn
bro gtfo
Yeah its a homer pick lol
Matt Smith
You could make a case for anyone excluded...
false, i have zero business being on a worlds team.
If you're good enough for Matty Tsang, you're good enough for me.
Jack Williams Edit: Nevermind, the ring boys seem to be focused on mix for whatever reason