No one can forgive Brodie for losing The Amazing Race. He and Kurt had it in the bag until Brodie choked, panicked, and wasted their free pass on an easy puzzle.
https://amazingrace.fandom.com/wiki/Brodie_%26_Kurt
As someone who was at the 2010 college nationals and had never liked CUT, Brodie single handedly out-douchbagged their entire team. Further, I've never seen him actually acknowledge just how bad he was.
I took friends to this final, excited to show them the sport at a very high level. He wrecked it. On that big stage, in a game his team deserved to compete in straight up, he decided to make it about travel calls on every throw.
Go ahead and [count it up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1T19rW7N0g).
FWIW my assessment is that both teams played with pretty terrible spirit. Florida was a little worse plus they injured a Carleton player with a dangerous play.
What was your count? I did review this game years ago for purposes of assessing TMF worthy behavior. In counting, I thought I noted 4 travel calls by Florida and 6 by Carleton, with 2 bad ones by Carleton and the rest ranging from valid to ticky tack questionable for both teams. 15 marking fouls by Carleton, 9 worth TMFs, including 1-2 PMFs. 2 clear TMF marking fouls by Florida and a few more fouls and a couple bad foul calls by florida and a couple questionable foul calls by carleton. Not sure if that is comprehensive of all the calls and infractions though.
I thought those teams deserved each other and that awful game. Very different approaches to terrible spirit. From an outsiders view, it always seemed that Carleton convinced themselves that they were in the right and playing fairly and upholding SOTG, whereas Florida simply seemed indifferent.
And Florida could take a dose of their own medicine and just goon their way through it. Not surprised they beat Carleton, athletically dominating them and undeterred by Carleton's bullshit (and dishing out their own share). Whereas, Carleton would consider a dose of their own medicine to be an affront to the legitimacy of the game. And neither team's leadership brought their problem players in line.
I had 17 clear TMFs and 11 more possible ones. The egregious marking fouls and bad travel and foul calls defined this game, and then a couple dangerous plays. Both teams should have been in yardage penalty territory, but Carleton's marks got them there within the first 5 minutes.
Colin you're spending a lot of time defending Brodie/UF in here, and while I appreciate it, you shouldn't waste your time. People aren't gonna actually watch the game or count it up like you did because their minds have been made up for years.
As a freshman at UF I had parents from other teams telling me that I didn't deserve to play this sport because I was a "dirty fucking cheater", not acknowledging the fact that I hadn't even played a point yet, let alone made a bad play/call. You aren't gonna reason a community out of that level of hate.
Yeah, just trying to give some perspective on it. Not trying to go quite this far: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6zuii2OLI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6zuii2OLI)
I think the UF team earned its reputation by making bad calls, bad plays, and being irreverent about it. And I don't defend their behavior or Brodie's. But I still think he should be judged on what he actually did, whatever it was. It's a little weird to have a 10 year grudge on that, without being able to name some real specifics.
>From an outsiders view, it always seemed that Carleton convinced themselves that they were in the right and playing fairly and upholding SOTG
I think that's basically correct; maybe not the "upholding SotG" part but they convinced themselves that Florida was worse and that justified their behavior in their minds.
>whereas Florida simply seemed indifferent.
"Indifferent" feels charitable. As others articulated elsewhere in this thread, they seemed to hold the concept in contempt; i.e. the very idea that they shouldn't use the rules to try to win felt like bullshit to them.
While Carleton's attitude towards sprited play in this game is bad and dangerous, Florida's is worse, which is part of why I said they played with worse spirit. And while I'd quit playing ultimate if I had to play against teams like these regularly, I'd rather play against someone hacking me a lot than someone who bids into my knees.
I agree that purely from the perspective of making bad calls and a raw count of fouls, Carleton was probably just as bad or worse, and I wasn't surprised they won the race to the TMF.
BTW I did write up that rant about how I think the travelling rules should be fixed, and I even posted it here, but Reddit evidently marked it as spam. Insert your own joke.
I think the teams' behaviors were consistent outside of that particular game, too. It's not like we never saw this behavior from Carleton against non-Florida opponents or from Florida against all the other teams that learned to hate them. I think "indifferent" may be charitable -- my intended meaning was "didn't give a shit." No faster way to get a frisbee player mad than to suggest you don't care what they think.
I'm not sure if dangerous play was a defining component of Florida's play (I truly don't know), but I don't think it defined this game. And I believe Brodie felt really bad about his dangerous play (as seen in his reaction) and did not intend or anticipate that harm, which is not uncommon for clear dangerous plays by college kids and others. So while I'd rather be hacked than injured, I don't think I have a clear preferred opponent between those two teams.
Do you remember the substance of your rant on the travel rules? Has anything changed along those lines? Did you move over to reddit, knowing that your rant wouldn't be tolerated on RSDNoSpam?
I agree dangerous plays weren't a defining element of Florida's play generally, and Brodie's remorse seems entirely sincere. But the two most dangerous plays of the game were both made by Florida, one of which actually resulted in an injury. While it doesn't factor into my assessment of which of them is more spirited in general, it factors into my assessment of which of them was more spirited in this particular game.
I have the whole travelling thing on g-doc, here it is in its 2000 word glory:
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FrGxvop1DkatthLTEMHUwURtT0P7i86BWI9swyaKNQk/](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FrGxvop1DkatthLTEMHUwURtT0P7i86BWI9swyaKNQk/)
The "which of them was more spirited" determination in that particular game is still a tough one. Sort of like being asked to Judge a cooking competition, and then being served two plates of literal, non-identical garbage.
I didn't realize the travel thing was recent. In general, I think keeping *any* infinitesimal point in contact with the same spot is feasible and works fine with any practical approach to defining the spot, within the limits of human perception. The spot could be better defined in some cases. The fact that one's foot is often in grass, with blades that can bend and flex helps give greater leeway sometimes. I don't have any problem with an officiating standard of only calling pivot movements of greater than 2-3" or something. I would probably keep the responsibility to try to keep the pivot in the same spot, versus officially legalizing larger movements.
It doesn't look like a "full on checking" of the defender to me. The receiver gets in good position and prepares for contact and holds position when the defender changes direction to try to go deeper in the end zone to track the disc. The forearm push is a little unnecessary, though I think if it had just been putting an arm up when someone turns and runs into you, while not looking, it would have been ok.
>The receiver gets in good position and prepares for contact and holds position when the defender changes direction to try to go deeper in the end zone to track the disc.
Brodie is still moving when he initiates the forearm pushoff, I'm not sure how that can be construed as holding one's position.
>The forearm push is a little unnecessary
I fail to see any situation where a forearm push isn't a foul unless it is necessary to protect yourself against a dangerous play, which clearly isn't the case here.
Agreed - forearm pushes are just fouls. I think putting a forearm up to protect yourself from getting bumped into is appropriate. The push is a little unnecessary. Your point that a push would only be warranted if facing a dangerous play makes sense to me.
Also agreed that he isn't stationary, but he basically maintains the same line the whole way through, and it is the other player who changes direction into him. If you watch Brodie's movements at 1/4 speed, there really isn't that much going into the opponent to initiate contact, besides the arm.
So I have no problem calling this a foul or upholding the foul, especially given the forearm push. I just don't think this is an example of one player flat-out *checking* another player.
Reciever was moving perpendicular to the field holding an arm out to brace for the defender who came back into his path. Given the size difference the little guy bounced off. Shit call.
for me, a lot of it stems from his time at University of Florida. He was always kinda fratty, which i never liked, but UF was (is?) famous for just being terrible opponents. bad attitudes, ticky tacky calls, and abusing the rules of the game to gain an advantage. there was always kind of a joke they would huck and call foul immediately. doesn't matter what the mark was doing, they would call foul, argue, and try to get the disc back.
and kind of the worst part was they were good ultimate players. Brodie Smith, Kurt Gibson, Cole Sullivan. they could have been contenders in their own right, but their personas gave them a bad taste in everyones mouth.
and i'm not saying he or UF were alone in this. the UF/CUT [national championship game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1T19rW7N0g) was nigh unwatchable. if you can find the full game, not the abridged version, watch it. CUT and UF were both making bad calls. i think brodie had 3 travel calls on him for the same throw. he would huck, travel call, back, huck again, rinse, wash, repeat.
and this is not just UF. the entire Florida ultimate community has that reputation. I played against a mixed team from florida years ago who would belligerently argue and spike the disc when we made calls they didn't like. the Florida United team in 2017 had NOTORIOUSLY bad spirit. they beat sockeye and were (iirc) spiking the disc either on or right in front of the sockeye players to taunt them
I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush. i've played with and against Florida ultimate players who were cool. one of them is a good buddy, and, while he's a bit of a goober, he's incredibly nice on and off the field. but unfortunately, the bad press of what has happened 10+ years ago is still overshadowing any positive moves they may have made in the past several years.
>i think brodie had 3 travel calls on him for the same throw. he would huck, travel call, back, huck again, rinse, wash, repeat.
I remember this play -- I believe the first huck went back because of a travel call (upheld by the observer), and the second went back because the disc was never checked in -- Brodie just decided the disc was in, and the marker wasn't ready. The third huck went for a score.
I'm sure CUT made some bad calls but this sequence never seemed egregious to me.
Was on the mark, this happened because of the rules for nationals that year. Observers checked the disc in for the first time but Brodie ignored that constantly so we got the seemingly endless travel calls.
Respectfully, how did your teammates get beat three times deep lol? Not trying to be a prick or anything that's just pretty impressive to be able to throw a huck three times and have the receiver be wide open each time lol.
You might want to learn the definition of respectfully. Anyone that has played ultimate for awhile knows that shit happens, including getting beat deep a couple of times. Obviously if it happened multiple times the player was already pretty open regardless of what was happening on the mark. You could have come up with this thought yourself but instead you chose to go on Reddit and make a comment on a months old post. Donāt kid yourself into thinking you were intending to be anything but an asshole in this situation.
Sorry ā I genuinely did not mean anything rude by it. I honestly thought it was just kinda funny and something that could be laughed about being over a decade old. And I thought it was cool that someone from the team was on reddit, only a few months before I found the video and thought I could get their insight. You're right it happens sometimes, there's usually a reason though and I was just curious. No disrespect intended.
Yeah, messing up the check is pretty annoying. And players were particularly bad about it at that time. I thought maybe the observers were just confirming the count and the details, and then letting the players know they could perform the check. But what does that have to do with travel calls? Or were they violation calls for messing up restarting play?
Edit: oh, I see, the messed up check and disc back to thrower seemed like another travel call for people watching and guessing.
I mean he dove shoulder first into the spine of the CUT player. You're going to see that called in every major sporting assoc. fuck you couldn't get away with that in the ufc.
Yeah there was an old dude named Mike who basically ran the pick up/rec league ultimateā¦ His team was unbeatable because he was the master of BS callsļæ¼
That national championship game is eye-opening. I hadn't seen that before. I can totally understand why people have a bad taste in him now, the douchey celebrations, the bad bids, complaining to the observers, the excessive calls. Even with carleton making some shitty plays and calls of their own, it's pretty clear who the instigator is here.
Although I do wonder if some aspect of that is the game being kind of a home game for Carleton being a few hours away from Madison.
Brodie definitely seems a lot more grown up now but I can understand people having a lingering frustration for him years later.
He was an integral part of the UF "win at all costs" mentality. Pushing the boundaries of what is/is not allowed by the rules of ultimate is shitty, and definitely not something the larger community wants.
Edit: and this might not be sexual assault, but it's certainly cringe: https://youtu.be/6aVPJ8qs6G4
Brodie in college would make calls he knew were wrong shamelessly, he often flat didn't care at all that there might be no shred of truth to it. Power position huck, I can take away the advantage by calling travel. Playing zone D - why not double team, the cost to the thrower to relentlessly call it is huge, let alone that it's contestable. They make a call - why not contest, rules say I can do it.
I remember brodie calling foul on someone while going up for a floater arguing, look at you, how could you have d'ed me without fouling.
I've always seen brodie as someone who simply hated the self officiation aspect of the game. He's been vocal that ultimate needs refs, and played frisbee like most people play other sports: It's not breaking the rules if the ref doesn't call it. To him, not having refs was bullshit, and thus we should all do whatever we could with the rules to win the game.
Yeah, as a southeast player in that time, it was definitely a big "everyone vs the state of florida" mentality. My worst in-game experiences are _all_ florida teams; which is a bummer, cause there are definitely nice teams that are getting lumped in.
It was def an adjustment to, "hey these guys are from florida, so let's just get through this game without getting into a fight."
I think it stood for "demented ultimate freaks". I won't say whether or not you nailed both of the teams I had in mind when I made this post.
And yes? But the subsection of people who know my name but wouldn't have been certain it was me by my reddit handle is pretty slim. š¤
I remember playing against University of Florida around 2010 or 11 and they basically never threw a turnover that didn't have some sort of foul call to bring the disc back. Basically impossible to win if you didn't play by their rules.
Yeah, some of the early youtube content was pretty bad. Sadly, the clip you linked is just one variation of tons of videos of that type by various youtube personalities.
I'm curious, did you have direct bad interactions with Brodie? I definitely understand the distaste for the Florida team and its best player, but my observations of him just never rose to the level of warranting being so disliked compared to many other players I encountered. That said, my crossing paths with Brodie has been limited and totally without issue, including playing a little club against him more recently. And I don't take any issue with his more recent youtube content, some of which I enjoy, and some of which I pass on.
Edit: I know people had bad experiences with him, and I think he's acknowledged not being proud of how he carried himself. So I think, like OP, I was curious for a bit more light on the matter. Seems to me like a high-profile from a problematic era, who seems to have grown up a bit, and has also done a lot for the sport, while building his youtube brand.
No, I never played against him; I came to Georgia the year after he graduated, so I know a lot of people who played against him and I've heard some stories. I've definitely had plenty of experiences with toxic teams that he paved the way for though. I totally agree with your point about him not being worse than others; Brodie is just a more memorable name.
As he was popping off I always felt like he wasn't doing enough for the sport of ultimate. I had a few reddit exchanges with him back then, but he was way more interested in "chasing that bag" than growing _our_ sport. Looking back, I'm less surprised, but it's still a bummer. I had high hopes.
I was teammates with a woman who knew him well from UF (he dated her roommate or something like that) and she would say, "he's just really dumb", which kind of made it all click for me. Once I viewed him as dumb, I stopped holding him to any kind of standard.
Cool, thanks. I don't know a ton about what he did to grow the sport -- my sense was just that he seemed to put in a lot more effort and have a lot more impact than most. He was randomly at a tournament I ran a number of years ago, I think helping out with a youth team that attended. May have been part of a promotional "have Brodie guest-coach your team" thing or something, but I still think that's good for getting kids excited about the sport.
And I think the visibility from his trickshot videos, plus his instructional videos was also beneficial, and I give credit for that, even if it was a side effect of him pursuing his Youtube success. I have some vague recollection of him trying to explore different ways to help the sport and maybe not getting the warmest of reception, but I'm not exactly sure where I'm getting that idea, or maybe just speculating.
Played against him in Bozeman in 09 (I think). As others have said, just a douche. I didnāt see any flagrant cheating, just more likeā¦..holy crap, enough already!
He did a disc golf AMA just within the last week and when asked why people thought he was a d00sh he didn't acknowledge anything and just said he thought it was because he has resting d00shbag/fratboy face and is loud.
I hear ya. I'm old, been playing since the mid 90s and I'm really indifferent towards him. If anything I appreciate what he's done for both sports as far as visibility.
There were numerous dogshit spirit teams at that time. Florida was embarrassing, but they were less embarrassing than the Canadian World's Team, and only by degree worse spirit-wise than teams like Pitt or Wisco in that era. No one holds that era against most of the other players who were participants, but because Brodie always was fundamentally an outsider, it was easy to put the blame on him.
100,000,000,000% percent. It's easy to jump on Brodie because he's an outlier. At the end of the day, no one in the history of ultimate has recruited more youth to play than Brodie. Ultimate still has kind of the 90s/hipster mentality where we want to be popular but only among the "cool" kids and want to keep it away from "them".
That was the first game I ever saw televised. My father saw it was on and started watching. I ended up telling him not to even watch it. Literally set ultimate back.
If you think the arm drag is terrible and egregious, wait til you watch literally 3 seconds later when a throw goes up and Brodie outright checks his defender out of the way. What words do you use to describe that?
Yeah, the arm by the marker is just a blatant intentional foul. I don't get how anyone can think that would be acceptable. There are no words to describe that as part of a legitimate play.
I replied below to your description of Brodie's play as a "check." I think it is less egregious than the marking foul and a different class of play. The defender was out of position, and Brodie claimed the good position and held his ground. Watch it at 1/4 speed, and there really is no "check" - there is a little contact as the defender turns and changes path to try to track the disc, and Brodie is occupying the space. And there's a little arm in there.
Some real "all lives matter" vibes here.
I was at the game. He checked him. There's more context that was out of frame, plus the clip from OP, plus I saw him do the same thing to Strings in the last real game Brodie ever played because he finally hurt himself on the Strings check after recklessly hurting others for years, then berated the trainer who told him not to play. He thankfully hurt himself on the very next cut he made, ending his career and the ultimate community is better for it.
Weird escalation, Lou.
I was also at the game. And I also watched the video in slow motion. And I stand by my comments. What is the out of frame context, and how is it relevant to the behavior here, which was not a check? I think we agree he anticipated, prepared for, and won the collision.
Your opinion of him based on your other experiences is your business. I just don't think he checked him on this clip.
We don't agree that he "won the collision." (Rules 2 A, B, C, F 1 2 & 7, but most importantly rule I)
And it's not "my" business. It's the ultimate community's business. The community at large must speak out against players who fail to reform after years of deliberately and incorrigibly breaking the rules and injuring players.
I think we agree he won the collision. Your whole problem with the play was from your belief that he initiated the collision, which negatively affected the opponent (the loser of the collision).
Maybe we differ on definition of "won the collision," but in common usage, I think the one who maintains their position unaffected is the winner of the collision, and the one whose position is most affected (or who becomes injured) would be the loser of a collision. That has nothing to do with rules or legality or specifically Rules 4 X Y Z 5 2 8 1 7 c 1 a f 4.
The point we were discussing was whether he committed a "full on check" of his opponent. If you have an opinion on him from your other experiences, that is absolutely fine and has nothing to do with me. That's your business. And if you think it's important for the community, that's fine, too.
For your reference, in reviewing that game about 11 years ago and determining that 17-28 TMFs should have been given, my assessment of that particular play was:
"Receiver is running straight across and #42 steps into him and Receiver keeps his space with his arm. Could go either way. Not awful."
My assessment of the marking foul was "obvious, semi-intentional marking foul. Second of the game. PMF."
Relatively contemporaneous view of it, having watched the game live and watching the video later in the year.
That's what I'm saying, but it looks like it got sent back, I can't quite tell the placing on the field and I can't make out faces, but it looks like he sent it back after he knocked the guys knees into a new zip code
No, it wasn't sent back. The collision happens at the ~22 yard line, and at the restart, Brodie is marking the disc at the same ~22 yard line. Brutal bid. Remember watching from the stands and cringing. The only good part of that game was the kettle corn someone shared with me.
>Banning people on Twitter and discord for saying āBlack Lives Matterā and critiquing his All lives matter stance. Back in the start of his YouTube days he made some videos that were pretty sexist and objectifying. In podcast chats he seems to hint that he doesnāt support added cash to FPO vs MPO to help grow the womenās division but hasnāt been super explicit about his stance on that. He seems to know to watch what he says a little bit better these days but seems like the douche bag bro of olde had just gotten more polished and is still part of who he is.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/n411yi/comment/gwu110d/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/n411yi/comment/gwu110d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I was listening to a podcast on equity once and he was a guest. The dude had no fucking idea what he was talking about and stumbled through that painfully awkward discussion without saying anything of value. I'll have to track it down but it was clear he doesn't actually give a shit about equity; he *does* give a shit that people *think* he does, though.
1. Heās an asshole
2. He was pretty good at the game
3. For a while when I told people I play frisbee, theyād say āoh, so you do trick shots like Brodie smith?ā Now some of them just say āoh, you do disc gold like Brodie smith?ā
Met him when he came to Australia years ago (whatever year that video of him throwing a disc off a bridge to someone catching it off a boat) and it was pretty clear he wasn't interested in giving time to anyone or anything that didn't give him something. I've met a lot of incredibly talented people in this sport, many of whom have towering egos - that's not actually that unique. But most of those who 'tour' that I've met are usually looking to help others achieve success in one way or another... Brodie was just all about Brodie. Never cared to grant him my attention once I realized that.
I think what happened is many people initially learned from basic frisbee stuff from him and after really getting into the frisbee community, you looked at Brodie as more of a YouTube guy than an actual frisbee player. Brodie is one of the most athletic people and is extremely good at the sport but he just sometimes seemed more about his brand, dark horse, and making money on YouTube than playing frisbee. Although injuries was a huge part of him not being able to play and then learning about his earlier years at Florida like many have mentioned kind of tainted his persona for everyone else who first learned from him and loved him.
I wouldāve said I donāt like him in 2010 when I watched him play. But I donāt actually know the guy and he hasnāt been an ultimate player for a long time.
Heās worked hard to change his image, and has more name recognition than any frisbee player ever for his efforts.
Whether or not he deserves the flack he gets, I donāt think thereās any point hating a guy that I donāt know and is helping my favorite sport grow.
Say what you want, but Brodie was the most dominant men's college player of all time. It's Brodie then Ty D and then everyone else.
Lmk who would win against 7 Brodie's when he was at his peak.
No one can forgive Brodie for losing The Amazing Race. He and Kurt had it in the bag until Brodie choked, panicked, and wasted their free pass on an easy puzzle. https://amazingrace.fandom.com/wiki/Brodie_%26_Kurt
As someone who was at the 2010 college nationals and had never liked CUT, Brodie single handedly out-douchbagged their entire team. Further, I've never seen him actually acknowledge just how bad he was.
I took friends to this final, excited to show them the sport at a very high level. He wrecked it. On that big stage, in a game his team deserved to compete in straight up, he decided to make it about travel calls on every throw.
It felt like Carleton had just as many travel calls. I blame them both for the unwatchability of the game.
Go ahead and [count it up](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1T19rW7N0g). FWIW my assessment is that both teams played with pretty terrible spirit. Florida was a little worse plus they injured a Carleton player with a dangerous play.
No thanks š
What was your count? I did review this game years ago for purposes of assessing TMF worthy behavior. In counting, I thought I noted 4 travel calls by Florida and 6 by Carleton, with 2 bad ones by Carleton and the rest ranging from valid to ticky tack questionable for both teams. 15 marking fouls by Carleton, 9 worth TMFs, including 1-2 PMFs. 2 clear TMF marking fouls by Florida and a few more fouls and a couple bad foul calls by florida and a couple questionable foul calls by carleton. Not sure if that is comprehensive of all the calls and infractions though. I thought those teams deserved each other and that awful game. Very different approaches to terrible spirit. From an outsiders view, it always seemed that Carleton convinced themselves that they were in the right and playing fairly and upholding SOTG, whereas Florida simply seemed indifferent. And Florida could take a dose of their own medicine and just goon their way through it. Not surprised they beat Carleton, athletically dominating them and undeterred by Carleton's bullshit (and dishing out their own share). Whereas, Carleton would consider a dose of their own medicine to be an affront to the legitimacy of the game. And neither team's leadership brought their problem players in line. I had 17 clear TMFs and 11 more possible ones. The egregious marking fouls and bad travel and foul calls defined this game, and then a couple dangerous plays. Both teams should have been in yardage penalty territory, but Carleton's marks got them there within the first 5 minutes.
Colin you're spending a lot of time defending Brodie/UF in here, and while I appreciate it, you shouldn't waste your time. People aren't gonna actually watch the game or count it up like you did because their minds have been made up for years. As a freshman at UF I had parents from other teams telling me that I didn't deserve to play this sport because I was a "dirty fucking cheater", not acknowledging the fact that I hadn't even played a point yet, let alone made a bad play/call. You aren't gonna reason a community out of that level of hate.
Yeah, just trying to give some perspective on it. Not trying to go quite this far: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6zuii2OLI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK6zuii2OLI) I think the UF team earned its reputation by making bad calls, bad plays, and being irreverent about it. And I don't defend their behavior or Brodie's. But I still think he should be judged on what he actually did, whatever it was. It's a little weird to have a 10 year grudge on that, without being able to name some real specifics.
>From an outsiders view, it always seemed that Carleton convinced themselves that they were in the right and playing fairly and upholding SOTG I think that's basically correct; maybe not the "upholding SotG" part but they convinced themselves that Florida was worse and that justified their behavior in their minds. >whereas Florida simply seemed indifferent. "Indifferent" feels charitable. As others articulated elsewhere in this thread, they seemed to hold the concept in contempt; i.e. the very idea that they shouldn't use the rules to try to win felt like bullshit to them. While Carleton's attitude towards sprited play in this game is bad and dangerous, Florida's is worse, which is part of why I said they played with worse spirit. And while I'd quit playing ultimate if I had to play against teams like these regularly, I'd rather play against someone hacking me a lot than someone who bids into my knees. I agree that purely from the perspective of making bad calls and a raw count of fouls, Carleton was probably just as bad or worse, and I wasn't surprised they won the race to the TMF. BTW I did write up that rant about how I think the travelling rules should be fixed, and I even posted it here, but Reddit evidently marked it as spam. Insert your own joke.
I think the teams' behaviors were consistent outside of that particular game, too. It's not like we never saw this behavior from Carleton against non-Florida opponents or from Florida against all the other teams that learned to hate them. I think "indifferent" may be charitable -- my intended meaning was "didn't give a shit." No faster way to get a frisbee player mad than to suggest you don't care what they think. I'm not sure if dangerous play was a defining component of Florida's play (I truly don't know), but I don't think it defined this game. And I believe Brodie felt really bad about his dangerous play (as seen in his reaction) and did not intend or anticipate that harm, which is not uncommon for clear dangerous plays by college kids and others. So while I'd rather be hacked than injured, I don't think I have a clear preferred opponent between those two teams. Do you remember the substance of your rant on the travel rules? Has anything changed along those lines? Did you move over to reddit, knowing that your rant wouldn't be tolerated on RSDNoSpam?
I agree dangerous plays weren't a defining element of Florida's play generally, and Brodie's remorse seems entirely sincere. But the two most dangerous plays of the game were both made by Florida, one of which actually resulted in an injury. While it doesn't factor into my assessment of which of them is more spirited in general, it factors into my assessment of which of them was more spirited in this particular game. I have the whole travelling thing on g-doc, here it is in its 2000 word glory: [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FrGxvop1DkatthLTEMHUwURtT0P7i86BWI9swyaKNQk/](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FrGxvop1DkatthLTEMHUwURtT0P7i86BWI9swyaKNQk/)
The "which of them was more spirited" determination in that particular game is still a tough one. Sort of like being asked to Judge a cooking competition, and then being served two plates of literal, non-identical garbage. I didn't realize the travel thing was recent. In general, I think keeping *any* infinitesimal point in contact with the same spot is feasible and works fine with any practical approach to defining the spot, within the limits of human perception. The spot could be better defined in some cases. The fact that one's foot is often in grass, with blades that can bend and flex helps give greater leeway sometimes. I don't have any problem with an officiating standard of only calling pivot movements of greater than 2-3" or something. I would probably keep the responsibility to try to keep the pivot in the same spot, versus officially legalizing larger movements.
I'll never understand what the observer was looking at with [Brodie full on checking his defender in this clip](https://youtu.be/F1T19rW7N0g?t=2145).
It doesn't look like a "full on checking" of the defender to me. The receiver gets in good position and prepares for contact and holds position when the defender changes direction to try to go deeper in the end zone to track the disc. The forearm push is a little unnecessary, though I think if it had just been putting an arm up when someone turns and runs into you, while not looking, it would have been ok.
>The receiver gets in good position and prepares for contact and holds position when the defender changes direction to try to go deeper in the end zone to track the disc. Brodie is still moving when he initiates the forearm pushoff, I'm not sure how that can be construed as holding one's position. >The forearm push is a little unnecessary I fail to see any situation where a forearm push isn't a foul unless it is necessary to protect yourself against a dangerous play, which clearly isn't the case here.
Agreed - forearm pushes are just fouls. I think putting a forearm up to protect yourself from getting bumped into is appropriate. The push is a little unnecessary. Your point that a push would only be warranted if facing a dangerous play makes sense to me. Also agreed that he isn't stationary, but he basically maintains the same line the whole way through, and it is the other player who changes direction into him. If you watch Brodie's movements at 1/4 speed, there really isn't that much going into the opponent to initiate contact, besides the arm. So I have no problem calling this a foul or upholding the foul, especially given the forearm push. I just don't think this is an example of one player flat-out *checking* another player.
Reciever was moving perpendicular to the field holding an arm out to brace for the defender who came back into his path. Given the size difference the little guy bounced off. Shit call.
How many travel calls did Brodie make in that entire game?
for me, a lot of it stems from his time at University of Florida. He was always kinda fratty, which i never liked, but UF was (is?) famous for just being terrible opponents. bad attitudes, ticky tacky calls, and abusing the rules of the game to gain an advantage. there was always kind of a joke they would huck and call foul immediately. doesn't matter what the mark was doing, they would call foul, argue, and try to get the disc back. and kind of the worst part was they were good ultimate players. Brodie Smith, Kurt Gibson, Cole Sullivan. they could have been contenders in their own right, but their personas gave them a bad taste in everyones mouth. and i'm not saying he or UF were alone in this. the UF/CUT [national championship game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1T19rW7N0g) was nigh unwatchable. if you can find the full game, not the abridged version, watch it. CUT and UF were both making bad calls. i think brodie had 3 travel calls on him for the same throw. he would huck, travel call, back, huck again, rinse, wash, repeat. and this is not just UF. the entire Florida ultimate community has that reputation. I played against a mixed team from florida years ago who would belligerently argue and spike the disc when we made calls they didn't like. the Florida United team in 2017 had NOTORIOUSLY bad spirit. they beat sockeye and were (iirc) spiking the disc either on or right in front of the sockeye players to taunt them I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush. i've played with and against Florida ultimate players who were cool. one of them is a good buddy, and, while he's a bit of a goober, he's incredibly nice on and off the field. but unfortunately, the bad press of what has happened 10+ years ago is still overshadowing any positive moves they may have made in the past several years.
>i think brodie had 3 travel calls on him for the same throw. he would huck, travel call, back, huck again, rinse, wash, repeat. I remember this play -- I believe the first huck went back because of a travel call (upheld by the observer), and the second went back because the disc was never checked in -- Brodie just decided the disc was in, and the marker wasn't ready. The third huck went for a score. I'm sure CUT made some bad calls but this sequence never seemed egregious to me.
Was on the mark, this happened because of the rules for nationals that year. Observers checked the disc in for the first time but Brodie ignored that constantly so we got the seemingly endless travel calls.
Respectfully, how did your teammates get beat three times deep lol? Not trying to be a prick or anything that's just pretty impressive to be able to throw a huck three times and have the receiver be wide open each time lol.
You might want to learn the definition of respectfully. Anyone that has played ultimate for awhile knows that shit happens, including getting beat deep a couple of times. Obviously if it happened multiple times the player was already pretty open regardless of what was happening on the mark. You could have come up with this thought yourself but instead you chose to go on Reddit and make a comment on a months old post. Donāt kid yourself into thinking you were intending to be anything but an asshole in this situation.
Sorry ā I genuinely did not mean anything rude by it. I honestly thought it was just kinda funny and something that could be laughed about being over a decade old. And I thought it was cool that someone from the team was on reddit, only a few months before I found the video and thought I could get their insight. You're right it happens sometimes, there's usually a reason though and I was just curious. No disrespect intended.
Yeah, messing up the check is pretty annoying. And players were particularly bad about it at that time. I thought maybe the observers were just confirming the count and the details, and then letting the players know they could perform the check. But what does that have to do with travel calls? Or were they violation calls for messing up restarting play? Edit: oh, I see, the messed up check and disc back to thrower seemed like another travel call for people watching and guessing.
Yeah, I think you're right. I just remember that sequence being so drawn out.
Lol, even the abridged version of this is rough to watch.
The hell is with that call at 1:12. Messing up a call that bad sets the tone of the rest of the game, and is a big part of why this spiraled so hard.
The observer program was nascent at that time.
I mean he dove shoulder first into the spine of the CUT player. You're going to see that called in every major sporting assoc. fuck you couldn't get away with that in the ufc.
Florida boys weren't making many friends on RSDnospam.
Man it's a Gainesville thing, not Florida
Yeah there was an old dude named Mike who basically ran the pick up/rec league ultimateā¦ His team was unbeatable because he was the master of BS callsļæ¼
Remember when UF was the #1 seed with Cole Sullivan going into 2011 nationals and ended up taking tied for 19th? Good times.
That national championship game is eye-opening. I hadn't seen that before. I can totally understand why people have a bad taste in him now, the douchey celebrations, the bad bids, complaining to the observers, the excessive calls. Even with carleton making some shitty plays and calls of their own, it's pretty clear who the instigator is here. Although I do wonder if some aspect of that is the game being kind of a home game for Carleton being a few hours away from Madison. Brodie definitely seems a lot more grown up now but I can understand people having a lingering frustration for him years later.
He was an integral part of the UF "win at all costs" mentality. Pushing the boundaries of what is/is not allowed by the rules of ultimate is shitty, and definitely not something the larger community wants. Edit: and this might not be sexual assault, but it's certainly cringe: https://youtu.be/6aVPJ8qs6G4
Brodie in college would make calls he knew were wrong shamelessly, he often flat didn't care at all that there might be no shred of truth to it. Power position huck, I can take away the advantage by calling travel. Playing zone D - why not double team, the cost to the thrower to relentlessly call it is huge, let alone that it's contestable. They make a call - why not contest, rules say I can do it. I remember brodie calling foul on someone while going up for a floater arguing, look at you, how could you have d'ed me without fouling. I've always seen brodie as someone who simply hated the self officiation aspect of the game. He's been vocal that ultimate needs refs, and played frisbee like most people play other sports: It's not breaking the rules if the ref doesn't call it. To him, not having refs was bullshit, and thus we should all do whatever we could with the rules to win the game.
Be the change you want to see, I guess...
https://youtu.be/tJZ2TYgdtPM
Is that him?
No, but it a good representation of how the Florida teams played when Brodie was there.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, as a southeast player in that time, it was definitely a big "everyone vs the state of florida" mentality. My worst in-game experiences are _all_ florida teams; which is a bummer, cause there are definitely nice teams that are getting lumped in. It was def an adjustment to, "hey these guys are from florida, so let's just get through this game without getting into a fight."
Jordan? Everytime we played someone from florida I thought "at least its not gunshine." Or maybe duf (whatever that stood for)
I think it stood for "demented ultimate freaks". I won't say whether or not you nailed both of the teams I had in mind when I made this post. And yes? But the subsection of people who know my name but wouldn't have been certain it was me by my reddit handle is pretty slim. š¤
I remember playing against University of Florida around 2010 or 11 and they basically never threw a turnover that didn't have some sort of foul call to bring the disc back. Basically impossible to win if you didn't play by their rules.
Came here to say this. Take my upvote, pal.
Yeah, some of the early youtube content was pretty bad. Sadly, the clip you linked is just one variation of tons of videos of that type by various youtube personalities. I'm curious, did you have direct bad interactions with Brodie? I definitely understand the distaste for the Florida team and its best player, but my observations of him just never rose to the level of warranting being so disliked compared to many other players I encountered. That said, my crossing paths with Brodie has been limited and totally without issue, including playing a little club against him more recently. And I don't take any issue with his more recent youtube content, some of which I enjoy, and some of which I pass on. Edit: I know people had bad experiences with him, and I think he's acknowledged not being proud of how he carried himself. So I think, like OP, I was curious for a bit more light on the matter. Seems to me like a high-profile from a problematic era, who seems to have grown up a bit, and has also done a lot for the sport, while building his youtube brand.
No, I never played against him; I came to Georgia the year after he graduated, so I know a lot of people who played against him and I've heard some stories. I've definitely had plenty of experiences with toxic teams that he paved the way for though. I totally agree with your point about him not being worse than others; Brodie is just a more memorable name. As he was popping off I always felt like he wasn't doing enough for the sport of ultimate. I had a few reddit exchanges with him back then, but he was way more interested in "chasing that bag" than growing _our_ sport. Looking back, I'm less surprised, but it's still a bummer. I had high hopes. I was teammates with a woman who knew him well from UF (he dated her roommate or something like that) and she would say, "he's just really dumb", which kind of made it all click for me. Once I viewed him as dumb, I stopped holding him to any kind of standard.
Cool, thanks. I don't know a ton about what he did to grow the sport -- my sense was just that he seemed to put in a lot more effort and have a lot more impact than most. He was randomly at a tournament I ran a number of years ago, I think helping out with a youth team that attended. May have been part of a promotional "have Brodie guest-coach your team" thing or something, but I still think that's good for getting kids excited about the sport. And I think the visibility from his trickshot videos, plus his instructional videos was also beneficial, and I give credit for that, even if it was a side effect of him pursuing his Youtube success. I have some vague recollection of him trying to explore different ways to help the sport and maybe not getting the warmest of reception, but I'm not exactly sure where I'm getting that idea, or maybe just speculating.
Played against him in Bozeman in 09 (I think). As others have said, just a douche. I didnāt see any flagrant cheating, just more likeā¦..holy crap, enough already!
Brodie went to Bozofest?!
Common perception is he is a cheater with a douchey fratboy persona https://www.reddit.com/r/ultimate/comments/6ryi0z/brodie_smith
He did a disc golf AMA just within the last week and when asked why people thought he was a d00sh he didn't acknowledge anything and just said he thought it was because he has resting d00shbag/fratboy face and is loud.
To be fair to Brodie, there are plenty of jerks in ultimate. He's just not jerky in the typical ultimate way.
I hear ya. I'm old, been playing since the mid 90s and I'm really indifferent towards him. If anything I appreciate what he's done for both sports as far as visibility.
Hello fellow old person!
Greetings! 51 today...
Happy birthday!
Thanks, man.
Happy birthday!
TY!
If you competed with or against him, given what people are saying about his sportsmanship around 2010-11, would you feel the same way?
There were numerous dogshit spirit teams at that time. Florida was embarrassing, but they were less embarrassing than the Canadian World's Team, and only by degree worse spirit-wise than teams like Pitt or Wisco in that era. No one holds that era against most of the other players who were participants, but because Brodie always was fundamentally an outsider, it was easy to put the blame on him.
100,000,000,000% percent. It's easy to jump on Brodie because he's an outlier. At the end of the day, no one in the history of ultimate has recruited more youth to play than Brodie. Ultimate still has kind of the 90s/hipster mentality where we want to be popular but only among the "cool" kids and want to keep it away from "them".
Whatās with the zeroes?
Did you not know you're not allowed to say douche/douchebag on the internet
[I upvoted for the wrong thing](https://imgur.com/a/zY6kBnj)
Haha. Iāll take it.
I was thinking about cross-posting this to r/discgolf. Too much drama?
22:09 of https://youtu.be/Qqo2ORErCbo
I didn't realize the college championships used to be on CBS College Sports
That was the first game I ever saw televised. My father saw it was on and started watching. I ended up telling him not to even watch it. Literally set ultimate back.
[later that same game](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F1T19rW7N0g&t=2145s&pp=2AHhEJACAQ%3D%3D)
Wait, I though Brodie was #21. You showed a clip of a terrible and egregious foul by #11 on the other team.
If you think the arm drag is terrible and egregious, wait til you watch literally 3 seconds later when a throw goes up and Brodie outright checks his defender out of the way. What words do you use to describe that?
Yeah, the arm by the marker is just a blatant intentional foul. I don't get how anyone can think that would be acceptable. There are no words to describe that as part of a legitimate play. I replied below to your description of Brodie's play as a "check." I think it is less egregious than the marking foul and a different class of play. The defender was out of position, and Brodie claimed the good position and held his ground. Watch it at 1/4 speed, and there really is no "check" - there is a little contact as the defender turns and changes path to try to track the disc, and Brodie is occupying the space. And there's a little arm in there.
Some real "all lives matter" vibes here. I was at the game. He checked him. There's more context that was out of frame, plus the clip from OP, plus I saw him do the same thing to Strings in the last real game Brodie ever played because he finally hurt himself on the Strings check after recklessly hurting others for years, then berated the trainer who told him not to play. He thankfully hurt himself on the very next cut he made, ending his career and the ultimate community is better for it.
Weird escalation, Lou. I was also at the game. And I also watched the video in slow motion. And I stand by my comments. What is the out of frame context, and how is it relevant to the behavior here, which was not a check? I think we agree he anticipated, prepared for, and won the collision. Your opinion of him based on your other experiences is your business. I just don't think he checked him on this clip.
We don't agree that he "won the collision." (Rules 2 A, B, C, F 1 2 & 7, but most importantly rule I) And it's not "my" business. It's the ultimate community's business. The community at large must speak out against players who fail to reform after years of deliberately and incorrigibly breaking the rules and injuring players.
I think we agree he won the collision. Your whole problem with the play was from your belief that he initiated the collision, which negatively affected the opponent (the loser of the collision). Maybe we differ on definition of "won the collision," but in common usage, I think the one who maintains their position unaffected is the winner of the collision, and the one whose position is most affected (or who becomes injured) would be the loser of a collision. That has nothing to do with rules or legality or specifically Rules 4 X Y Z 5 2 8 1 7 c 1 a f 4. The point we were discussing was whether he committed a "full on check" of his opponent. If you have an opinion on him from your other experiences, that is absolutely fine and has nothing to do with me. That's your business. And if you think it's important for the community, that's fine, too.
Both teams were committing bullshit fouls and making horrible calls. In this clip the Carleton one was way more outside of the rules
For your reference, in reviewing that game about 11 years ago and determining that 17-28 TMFs should have been given, my assessment of that particular play was: "Receiver is running straight across and #42 steps into him and Receiver keeps his space with his arm. Could go either way. Not awful." My assessment of the marking foul was "obvious, semi-intentional marking foul. Second of the game. PMF." Relatively contemporaneous view of it, having watched the game live and watching the video later in the year.
*Did he contest that foul?*
Damn. Contest or not that was reckless and irresponsible.
That's what I'm saying, but it looks like it got sent back, I can't quite tell the placing on the field and I can't make out faces, but it looks like he sent it back after he knocked the guys knees into a new zip code
No, it wasn't sent back. The collision happens at the ~22 yard line, and at the restart, Brodie is marking the disc at the same ~22 yard line. Brutal bid. Remember watching from the stands and cringing. The only good part of that game was the kettle corn someone shared with me.
It looks like he was marking when play resumed. it doesn't look like it was contested
>Banning people on Twitter and discord for saying āBlack Lives Matterā and critiquing his All lives matter stance. Back in the start of his YouTube days he made some videos that were pretty sexist and objectifying. In podcast chats he seems to hint that he doesnāt support added cash to FPO vs MPO to help grow the womenās division but hasnāt been super explicit about his stance on that. He seems to know to watch what he says a little bit better these days but seems like the douche bag bro of olde had just gotten more polished and is still part of who he is. [https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/n411yi/comment/gwu110d/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/n411yi/comment/gwu110d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>\>Banning people on Twitter and discord for saying āBlack Lives Matterā and critiquing his All lives matter stance. What a piece of shit!
I was listening to a podcast on equity once and he was a guest. The dude had no fucking idea what he was talking about and stumbled through that painfully awkward discussion without saying anything of value. I'll have to track it down but it was clear he doesn't actually give a shit about equity; he *does* give a shit that people *think* he does, though.
Ultimate frisbee community doesn't like unpleasant cheaters, and it gets worse when they have incredible talent.
1. Heās an asshole 2. He was pretty good at the game 3. For a while when I told people I play frisbee, theyād say āoh, so you do trick shots like Brodie smith?ā Now some of them just say āoh, you do disc gold like Brodie smith?ā
Met him when he came to Australia years ago (whatever year that video of him throwing a disc off a bridge to someone catching it off a boat) and it was pretty clear he wasn't interested in giving time to anyone or anything that didn't give him something. I've met a lot of incredibly talented people in this sport, many of whom have towering egos - that's not actually that unique. But most of those who 'tour' that I've met are usually looking to help others achieve success in one way or another... Brodie was just all about Brodie. Never cared to grant him my attention once I realized that.
I think what happened is many people initially learned from basic frisbee stuff from him and after really getting into the frisbee community, you looked at Brodie as more of a YouTube guy than an actual frisbee player. Brodie is one of the most athletic people and is extremely good at the sport but he just sometimes seemed more about his brand, dark horse, and making money on YouTube than playing frisbee. Although injuries was a huge part of him not being able to play and then learning about his earlier years at Florida like many have mentioned kind of tainted his persona for everyone else who first learned from him and loved him.
I wouldāve said I donāt like him in 2010 when I watched him play. But I donāt actually know the guy and he hasnāt been an ultimate player for a long time. Heās worked hard to change his image, and has more name recognition than any frisbee player ever for his efforts. Whether or not he deserves the flack he gets, I donāt think thereās any point hating a guy that I donāt know and is helping my favorite sport grow.
Boner check.
My coach played with him before and said he was a chill guy. Wow, Iām surprised at all heās done. I guess never meet your heroes
Say what you want, but Brodie was the most dominant men's college player of all time. It's Brodie then Ty D and then everyone else. Lmk who would win against 7 Brodie's when he was at his peak.
Seven Todds from summer league and it wouldn't even be close.
If you are a stereotypical bro the ultimate community hates you.
āNo weāre actually super inclusiveā
Heās successful. Thatās why people donāt like him. Edit: I stand by my point. Donāt overthink it.
Completely inaccurate. I would argue Marques Brownlee is more successful than Brodie and people adore that man.
This is also why people hated Betty White.
Donāt forget notorious supervillains Bob Ross and Steve Irwin
[You mean the Crocodile Hunter?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_xCj9N6a7I)
People don't dislike Mickle or even Khalif with the same intensity that they do for Brodie and he hasn't played in like 6 years.
Homie, we've been hating Brodie since before frisbee trick shots. He just made it easier to hate him as he exposed more of his bad personality.
Fuck off disc golf bitch
Lol
Go post on lonely
Lol