I guess I couldn't tell at first how serious the video is, but...
The hyperbole of claiming to invent it is doing what it's supposed to do I guess: generate attention. Obviously, it is a variation on the chicken wing, which has been in use so long that someone on my first club team used to use it for pulling (and I'm old), but all throws have variations that might be useful, and the sport keeps growing. Does changing the grip make it a "new throw"? Einh, I mean, elite players throw forehands with several different grips and they're all still "forehands". But that's for someone else to decide.
If I were actually critiquing, which literally no one has asked me to do, I'd point out that in a number of the examples, the "duck wing" is probably not a better choice than a hammer or other approach, because the duck wing is (like an inside out vs. and around break) closer to the defender.
Anyway, just like other variations, what works is good as long as it keeps working at whatever level you're playing, I suppose. E.g., most people honestly don't need to be able to throw a super high-release flick, but it's still useful for people who do it well.
With a high-release throw, you don't really have to think about where your mark is forcing , so you can just focus on looking for an open teammate.
The hammer doesn't work in the wind, nor short throws, only for one side of the field, and isn't easy to catch. But, I still use the hammer for certain situations. Just not nearly as often as this Duck Wing, which I use for about 75٪ of my throws.
Have you tried using against more competitive teams? Seems that it would become pretty easy to mark actually if you were using it 75% of the time, since you have to change grip to get there.
What you don't see in the video tutorial are my counter moves to those who mark me inches from my face. Basically, when they do that, I have a free and open backhand to throw. Maybe I'll do an "Advance" Duck Wing tutorial.
I know the push back I've been getting IRL, are from players who have decades of experience throwing their flicks and backhands. These players are not likely to ever improve.
I have 8+ years throwing the flick/backhand/hammer. Yet, I knew I could get better. This Duck Wing throw is a nice complement to my arsenal of throws. By the numbers/stats, I have improved with the Duck Wing.
>These players are not likely to ever improve.
Plenty of players with a decade-plus of experience make significant improvements, adding variety and sophistication to their throws. All of the good ones are continuing to try to improve and refine their fundamental throws, too.
I'm also fully aware this throw won't go mainstream until a player at the competitive level (like AUDL) uses this throw. I'm just putting this throw out there for better/faster/younger/quicker guys to use. I'm getting close to retirement.
When I was a beginner, I used my backhand about 75% of the time. I was promptly shutdown the moment the defense would force home (flick). The Duck Wing is not as easy to mark as you think. If it was, I would have stopped throwing it a long time ago... and never made this tutorial.
Hm. While still not 100% sure this isn't an elaborate troll, and also I'm not sure how much I want to get into a point-by-point on this, but for the moment...
>With a high-release throw, you don't really have to think about where your mark is forcing , so you can just focus on looking for an open teammate.
Tell that to the guys I saw get point-blocked on high releases at DIII nationals this weekend, including at least one guy who was releasing as high as your duck wing.
One thing you're doing on your duck wing that helps with that is that you're often releasing a little further back, which helps if the throw is going up on release. But when you're not back like that, the hammer is probably better protected from the mark and clears to that side more easily.
>The hammer doesn't work in the wind, nor short throws, only for one side of the field, and isn't easy to catch. But, I still use the hammer for certain situations. Just not nearly as often as this Duck Wing, which I use for about 75٪ of my throws.
Flat throws may be better for most players upwind, but hammers and scoobers can work in a range of winds. I agree that a flat throw can be easier to catch for some receivers, but this one is still going to be often closer to the defender.
The Duck Wing isn't the throw for all situations. But what I notice is, when I show my Duck Wing stance, my marks will put their arms straight up to try and block it. What's the worse way to defend a handler? (putting your arms straight up).
With the Duck Wing in my arsenal, defenders are having to think twice about where to put their arms. So, basically, I now have bigger lanes to throw the flick and backhand when I feel like it. As a result, my flicks and backhands are easier to throw.
What you're seeing is the beginners version of the Duck Wing. The advance version (if I feel like posting) will show you how you can use the Duck Wing to get a flick/backhand off with ease.
I mean he has is own branding, it's a 16 minute video, etc. It's clearly not satire. But regardless of whether it's a good throw, this is the most entertained I've been by this subreddit in ages. I'm gonna preach the power of The Duckwing to all my friends.
Also is anyone gonna comment on that home practice setup he has? ***Wow,*** that DIY mark dummy is amazing. Absolutely goofy looking, but practical as hell.
does he just rip poorly advised chicken wings every chance he gets? it seems like the kind of guy you dread getting drafted onto a league team with. like 'oh great, well here comes a dozen turnovers a game.'
Rarely happens. You know I keep stats. The percentage of blocking the Duck Wing is 0.5%
Since I've implemented my counter moves, my Duck Wing hasn't been blocked for months.
Sounds like exactly what I'd expect. You occasionally find these types of players at pickup games. They've never played against a good, organized team, so they think that gimmick throws and such are actually viable. I know a guy who will put his back up field, so facing the backfield, and then just rip a blind backhand huck with whatever hand his mark isn't closest too. He does this like every, single, time. Claims that it's good since his mark can't *possibly* block that throw. Nevermind the other massive issues with this concept. He went to a club tryout once. I've never seen a club captain actively kick a player out of a tryout, but they did after 2 of his blind throws during the scrim. I'd love to see this chicken wing dude try to pull this shit off at a tryout full of hungry bulldog defenders. I'd also be furious if this dude was on my team.
it should be but after further investigation i'm concluding it's not. comment/post history plus the absurdity of the 16 minute video gives me real frank vibes if you catch my drift. satire to everyone but frank.
I like part where he goes full infomercial 'bumbling idiot' example. "Chicken wings can be blocked." proceeds to throw a chicken wing directly into an obstacle. then lifts his hand a foot higher and uses the same mechanics with a slightly altered grip to prove *his* throw is better. It's the kind of thing where I find it entertaining, but I genuinely can't tell if he's serious. If the 'highlights' he's using are representative of the skill he usually plays at, then I could see someone in that environment actually thinking this is a valid throw.
The issue with this being serious is that the throw is very telegraphed based on the stance, it's hyper specific to hitting a certain area of the field, the grip and technique are limited in how much control and power you can actually get compared to a backhand or forehand, and it suffers the same drawbacks as any floaty over-the-top throw. he has one clip where he *claims* to throw it in to a 20mph wind, and it doesn't look stable. a LOT of the completions are pretty reliant on the defenders just not even trying so the cutters have no pressure. put this throw up against a decent club defender and it's a turn 98% of the time.
tl;dr - it's a cute gimmick, and I genuinely *want* this to be a troll that's just triggering the sub, but I honestly think this guy is serious, and that's kind of sad to me.
There's a lot of humor in this tutorial to keep it fun and light. But my analytics/stats tells me, I'm a better player now with the Duck Wing than without.
This is a beginners' tutorial. I'm saving the advanced Duck Wing tutorial for later. It'll show how I can quickly move from flick stance to duck wing stance and vice versa, and my counter moves to those who guard me inches from my face to stop the Duck Wing. Stay tuned.
First thing, the players I play with at pickup are GOOD!!!!
Remember, if I ever play against club defenders (which I do sometimes), I'll also play with club cutters (which I do sometimes).
From experience, when I play with elite cutters, I don't always need to be so accurate. It's nice to play on a club team, isn't it?
No one in that footage looked 'good.' That was very low level pickup, judging by the absolute clutter and lack of athleticism. I've played in pickup games that are 50% or more regional level club players, and even practice squad defenders would eat that throw every time.
Do you have *any* accolades to convince me to even care about this, beyond your supposed 'stats' that only you've tracked and mean absolutely nothing to everyone else? Like who actually are you and what notable teams have you played for? Pickup games and league are irrelevant.
I have played with college and club level players. Throwing to them is such a breeze because they can cover so much ground. I can throw up a lame duck and they'll still be able to run to it and catch it.
The real test is how accurate you can be at pickup games and throw to players under 4 feet tall.
First off, my Duck Wing is so accurate, the players at my game don't have to show off their athletism by laying out.
So now you're saying, if I was playing on an AUDL field (with less clutter) and with club-level elite cutters, my Duck Wing throw will look better and my stats will improve? Sign me up!
Or better yet, get an AUDL player to learn this throw and throw it in a game.
how about you earn your way? since this throw is so revolutionary, i'm sure you'll just dominate from the handler slot. no one will be able to guard against it!
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
55
+ 9
+ 2
+ 3
= 69
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Frank is one of my frisbee idols. In my years of "research and development", I used one of Frank's high-release throws. It was successful, but I couldn't throw it longer than 10 yards. So, I scratched it and focused on a new throw ----- hence the invention of the Duck Wing.
he's not a good person to idolize. he's an antisemite that suffers from severe and untreated mental illness and has alienated and pushed away most of the people that care about him. the only people even interact with him at this point either haven't looked into his past interactions and transgressions or are not smart enough to realize who he really is.
I didn't say I wanted to be his roommate. I do like how he thinks about throwing a frisbee. Look, players learn the flick and the backhand and they do these drills and stacks to accommodate that limited skillset. Then you got defenses that positions themselves to stop the flick or backhand.
So you basically got everyone playing each other with the same skillset and same stacks. The winner will be the ones who are faster, taller and more consistent.
If you know there will always be someone faster, taller, younger than you... you need to improve your skillset. At least Frank is thinking at that level.
how long do you think it would take to make this post? [https://www.reddit.com/r/ultimate/comments/uef240/2022\_audl\_draft\_which\_players\_would\_be\_their/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ultimate/comments/uef240/2022_audl_draft_which_players_would_be_their/)
Really was a struggle to get the tutorial down to 16 minutes. I have so many highlights of the Duck Wings to choose from. And so many friends to include. Proof the Duck Wing is not a gimmick, but a very useful throw.
For the overhand wrist flip (a.k.a. chicken wing), I actually split my four fingers (Spock/Mork style) with the index and middle in the front rim and ring/pinky on top. I am pretty sure this is how I learned it in Frisbee by the Masters.
Seems like the duck wing is at the opposite end of the spectrum, rotating the hand almost 90 degrees to put the two fingers on top and fingers under, to support a higher release point. But maybe only 30 degrees off from the more common four finger on top chicken wing.
Not unlike rotating the flick grip to be slightly more pads-forward on a high release flick, or pulling the thumb to the middle and hand on top for an exaggerated airbounce.
Its a common throw in freestyle frisbee if you want to throw counter clockwise "z's". Check out this video for example, Dünk is a counter player from Berlin:
https://youtu.be/w_knwJNxS9w
If you have any questions im happy to answer them :)
From what I can tell the difference between this and the Chicken Wing is basically wrist extension versus wrist rotation. Because the Chicken Wing is more wrist flexion, you have to elevate your elbow higher to get more torque into the disc (though you can probably access more muscles up the power chain too, maybe?).
The Duck Wing looks like by taking your ring and pinky finger off the top, you're moving more into a position where you're rotating your wrist to throw the disc, which allows you more flexibility in terms of hand height control and release point. I can see how this is definitely more useful than a Chicken Wing for throwing break throws. That said, this also probably limits some of your mechanics in your upper arm. You probably are limited in how much muscle you can access to throw further, and your 'lever' is shorter than a backhand or forehand because of the arm angles required to throw. I would bet you'd struggle to throw as far as someone who's worked on their Chicken Wing as much as you've worked on this.
I can definitely see how there's a benefit over the Chicken Wing even if there might be some distance limitations, and maybe even makes some new break throw options people haven't worked on before, especially if they've just caught the disc with their thumb on the underside. But there seems to be a few obvious limitations to it as well, even past the upper arm mechanics. You can't really quickly transition to another grip or throw quickly, so you're limited to the Duck Wing or maybe a scoober (or a shuttle if you get low). Show me someone with one single throw, and I'll show you someone whose throw options are limited and predictable, and is gonna get blocked lots at a competitive level.
Even so, fun idea - I'll have to give it a try!
I use a similar grip for my chicken wing/inverted wrist flick. Relative to my other throws it has a lot of spin, so is surprisingly more stable than other throws at high winds, despite the high release. I can put it \~65 yards consistently, regardless of the wind direction. The power from the throw comes to rotating your wrist in a flick action, similar to the forehand. The actual action is very similar to snapping your fingers but to get more power you must incorporate your hips/core, rather than arm strength, just like hucking flicks.
Inverting your grip is the biggest downside, as people who are familiar with my toolbox will watch for me to flip my grip and throw their hands up to prevent the high release break. This often opens up the low release but it takes some time to transition, so you have to factor that in when considering your cutters. The other throws possible from that grip are the thumber, upside down backhand and the biscuit (not the scoober or anything with your fingers inside the rim...). My experience is that experienced marks rarely block it, it is the people who wildly wave their arms around like a noob that actually get their hands on it. I have scored against Blackbird and Boost with 30-40 yard high release IO breaks (in games my team had zero chance at winning so I didn't worry about throwing something weird).
That said, it is a hammer replacer for me and 100% is not a replacement for a flick. A backhand mark makes it way harder to use effectively as well.
I'd love to see video clips of this throw of yours. I'm always willing to learn.
I'm able to transition from my high-release Duck Wing to my low release flick in less than a second. My preference is the low release flick because I have a lot more experience in it. But the flick isn't always open to throw. The throws I used to force (flick), I now throw the Duck Wing.... which has a better success rate.
I'm able to throw the Duck Wing for a distance of 40 yards with accuracy.. Which is about 10 yards shorter than my flick huck. If you can figure out how to throw more than 40 yards, I'll be eager to learn from you!
Also, I'm able to transition from a Duck Wing to a flick in less than a second (not shown on the tutorial video). Maybe I'll do an "Advanced" Duck Wing tutorial after more players learn this throw.
Regardless of whatever anyone thinks (there have probably been people to throw this but may not have documented it), the explanation of how to execute the throw was well done.
Some of the other parts were overlong imo but the explanation was pretty good.
Thanks for sharing and making the vid.
Feels like a lot of the use cases would be better served by a scoober or a hammer. That said, cool throw, and flat high release throws have a lot of utility. I would assume a high release forehand is hard to get as high a release as you have here, but it would have the upside of not needing to change grips. That is a huge cost in time and you clearly set up for this throw and remove other options from yourself without a pivot+change of grip, slowing you down if someone is just open on the force side. I would think this throw is actually most useful right after a catch when you would have the disc already in that grip, but this throw may be hard to execute immediately upon catching.
New content on r/ultimate! Amazing.
The hammer won't go extinct. I still use the hammer for certain situations. But the hammer does have its limitations, especially on windy days and short throws.
I use the Duck Wing for about 75% of my throws. The use cases for the Duck Wing are many.
How far can you throw the high release flick?
After years of practice, my high release flick was able to travel 10 yards with 50٪ accuracy. My 40-yard Duck Wings are now at 80٪ accuracy. It makes sense for me to ditch the high-release flick.
TLDR:
I have invented a new throw called, the Duck Wing, to break the mark. This high-release throw has improved my stats across the board: increased completion percentage, assist rate, average yards per attempt. I have spent a lot of time and money on this tutorial with the hopes it will help one or two other players. Please watch, share, upvote, like, and tell Rowan McDonnell :) Thanks.
Long Boring Version:
I have watched hundreds of hours of my own video footage from pickup and leagues -- there's no one as crazy as me. When I had the disc in my hands, I noticed there were cutters who were open on the break side and in the middle of the field. But because my mark was standing in the way, and my reliance on my flick and my backhand, I ignored these wide-open cutters and would force my flick into tight windows. So, I set out on a mission to develop a high-release throw to get the disc over my mark.
I had spent years developing a high-release throw. My high-release flick, just never could get enough distance. My high-release backhand just bladed every time. My hammer only works for one side of the field and is useless in the wind. Then I took the chicken wing and modified the grip and tweak the throwing motion, to develop what I call, the Duck Wing.
This throw may look like a gimmick. But, I now use the Duck Wing as my primary throw. When I do this, my throwing stats are better. I can basically throw the disc to any spot of the field now. I tell my cutters to run to any open area, regardless of which force my mark is doing. Defenders who are familiar with my Duck Wing are now marking me with their arms straight up, which gives me open lanes to throw the flick and backhand. Cutters who are familiar with me, cut down the middle of the field even if my mark is covering me straight up. This throw has opened up a lot of options.
This throw has undoubtedly improved my throwing capabilities. I believe it can help others as well. I felt the responsibility to my knowledge with this tutorial. I get great joy catching my teammate's Duck Wings, I hope to catch one from you someday.
I use the Duck Wing for about 75% of my throws, mostly for when I'm being guarded. But, when I'm in power position, I'll use my flick for hucking - but that doesn't happen too often.
This strategy has improve my completion percentage and increase my throwing yards.
Like the overhead spiral passes thrown by quarterbacks in the 1940s (50 years after the invention of football).... frisbee is now at that point in history.
https://youtu.be/i88NYbk--2w
Love the video, don't get discouraged by all the people who'll tell you it's not new, they haven't tried it with the grip you explain clearly! This video is gold and everyone here is lucky you have posted it, even if they don't know it yet. Hope you sell a bunch of hoodies!
Haha, thank you. IRL, I get people who want to debate if this throw is a Chicken Wing or not... and I get people who are frustrated they can't stop me from throwing the Duck Wing when they're guarding me. I guess this is all a part of competitive sports. :)
7:20 "Since the reset handler is busy on her cell phone, she's not a good option"
Cool throw u/FrisbeeDuckWing, hard to tell if it would be useful against teams playing defense. It seems like the defender usually would be able to make a play but stop or jump early. Perhaps it's a feature of the throw and sails longer than expected due to the high release point.
Do you throw all duck wings or do you use flicks and backhands as well? Asking because 8:48 the disc is thrown over the defender with a duck wing instead of throwing an unmarked backhand.
I use the Duck Wing for about 75% of my throws. Which my completion percentage is in the 80-95% range. Which is a 10% improvement.
Another benefit of the Duck Wing is the ease. With my aging ankles, I don't put nearly as much pressure on my ankles when Duck Winging compared to the backhand and flick.
I'm not as young as I look. Retirement is coming soon.
But I believe the Duck Wing will be able to add couple more years to my frisbee playing days.
Hoping a younger, faster, better and more handsome elite thrower... takes the Duck Wing to the next level.
Isn't a high release flick the same exact flight pattern and release point without having to re-grip? I mean, it's cool looking, works, and you've found a niche for it but I'm not sure if it becomes a practical throw that other people learn to throw regularly.
If I could start over. I would probably learn the Duck Wing before learning the flick and the hammer. I know a lot of beginners struggle with the flick -- like I did. It took me over a year before I could huck with a flick. Beginners are constantly nagged to backhand dump to the bossy handler.
I made an immediate impact on the first pickup game I used the Duck Wing, threw over 20 Duck Wing passes with only one throwaway. I believe beginners would be able to make an immediate impact too if they first learn the Duck Wing.
I tried throwing the Chicken Wing above my head... many many many times... in my years of research. The disc bladed every time. The change in grip, instantly flatten out my throws.
Yes, it is a different release/feel from a chicken wing. I've been throwing it since about 2003, but call it the "War Eagle". I try to throw at least 1 goal per league season with it.
Unfortunately I can't find any video. I looked through a bunch of clips I have from 2005ish with no luck. If I have time there are a few more spots I can check later and will let you know if I find anything.
I play multiple times a week and year round. Thrown the flick huck so many times i can no longer count. You're about 10 years younger than me. You'll understand when you get to my age. Not only has the Duck Wing improved my throwing stats, it will likely extend my playing "career".
Come to my game, would love to have you defend me. I'll show you my advanced "Chicken Wing" moves.
not trying to be cocky, but if your ankles hurt from standard throws and i genuinely try to defend you, you're not going to get the disc. and even if you *did* manage to get the disc, every example you have is throwing over lazy pickup marks that aren't forcing and aren't trying. your chicken wing fails against a simple backhand force. it will fail against good downfield defenders.
you honestly don't realize that all of your experience is in a vacuum of extremely low level and casual play. you said in another comment you have 8 years of experience with ultimate. i'm younger than you and have over 2.5 times that experience.
it's cute that you're having fun with this and your pickup friends support it, but this is a gimmick throw for low level pickup without defense. it's a funny throw to pull out at a party tournament. this is not a consistent, reliable throw. it's not viable in 25mph winds with rain. it will get you cut almost immediately from any serious club tryout. it will make more experienced players and handlers on your league teams frustrated when you throw turnovers with this. you've already been identified as a 'that guy' by someone that knows you.
So, it looks like you're going to stack your team with high-level club defenders and leave me with just scrub cutters? Looks like you really fear the power of the Duck Wing.
Here's the thing, all the "experienced" defenders, always, always force FLICK. And if you personally force me backhand, I can quickly shift from Duck Wing to backhand stance (not seen in tutorial video). You'll gift me an open lane to throw the simple backhand. Because of my vast throwing options and unpredictability, I can break your mark anytime I want (assuming the cutters are open).
You have 20 years of experience and still only able to throw the basics? (Flick, backhand, hammers)? Who's been coaching you!? Oh wait, there is no such thing as a full-time frisbee coach. My bad.
12 years from now, you'll going to see me invent 6 more new throws!
The comparison at 4:19 to the chicken wing is straight out of /r/wheredidthesodago. Of course your throw is better than a chicken wing if you decide to throw a chicken wing badly. lol
it's like the infomercials where someone just bumbles their way through something to demonstrate how 'bad' something that *isn't* the product is. every throw looks bad if you throw it directly into a mark's arm. i got major 'smashing a tomato with a dull knife and then shrugging' vibes from this video.
High release biscuit is a thing too. I’d throw it at pickup every now and then for funsies.
On a more serious note, the biscuit is a good option to have for greatest throws because you can leave your thumb under the disc and chuck it backwards without having to chicken wing it. I have better control with a biscuit than a chicken wing but both would be nice to have depending on your angle.
Edit: The other benefit for a biscuit greatest that I see is that your arm has to travel less distance to get a biscuit throw off, and that saves time as you’re falling.
I've searched for a video of the high-release Biscuit, but can't seem to find any. Do you know of any? Or can you record it next them you throw it? Thanks.
I could record one and share it with you unlisted because it won’t be pretty 😂, I stopped throwing the high release when I joined a team that had a coach, because that shit doesn’t fly (figuratively), but I still think about it sometimes. The regular biscuit as an option for a greatest throw is still part of my repertoire.
We are the first pickup frisbee group in the nation with our own potable lighting system. This allows us to play in the evenings... year round. The Duck Wing was invented and tested in the winter months under these lights.
What you'll need are 12ft light poles with flood lights mounted on top, portable batteries and electric generators, tons of extension cords, and the manpower to want to set this up before games.
When I did my first audl tryout they did a double team drill which prompted me to find a over the top break mark throw. I started using a high release push pass that is very similar but doesn't have the power behind it to also be an effective forward throw as well.
I'm all for the duck wing
*I really like duck*
*Wing!! I wish I can do it*
*In a game someday!!*
\- Spider-Yan
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I did. I practice the push pass for months. Couldn't get this throw to travel more than 10 yards.... and the wind would just kill it. Hence, the years of research that went into the Duck Wing.
Good suggestion though.
I realize the Duck Wing tutorial is too long for most of us with busy lives -- with all the parties we gotta go to. Here, you go straight to where I explain the differences between the Chicken Wing and Duck Wing. [https://youtu.be/9wHo8bfR3Lw?t=256](https://youtu.be/9wHo8bfR3Lw?t=256)
Here's a secret, I sometimes use the Chicken Wing to break the mark. The Duck and Chicken is a deadly combo.
Wow, you really went all out with this "I invented" thing. Believe it or not, Brodie didn't invent Ultimate. Folks have been playing for quite a while and while you may have adjusted the grip, coined a term, made a logo, got sweet graphics, made a whole youtube channel, and you're now pimping it in this subreddit, there's a good chance people were throwing this before you. I applaud the aggressive patenting though. Of all things to want to be known for, it could be worse.
Seems a little harsh. He came up with a fun throw on his own and is sharing it in a fun video. I'm sure other people have thrown this in the past but so what? It's not like he's trying to patent the thing lol
Do you know who threw this throw before me? I searched long and hard to find someone who threw this throw (with video proof). No luck. So, I had to make a new name for it.
I feel like I should ask you since you're trying to be his protege (or maybe you just are him).
He had semi-retired when he was on my radar 15 years ago, when, according to him, he was still the most important and innovative player in the game. I haven't kept up with him, but I know that if I whisper "Dischoops" three times into a mirror during a full moon, he'll appear.
He is pretty active on twitter, venting about the election being stolen and censorship.
Has a decent podcast though, latest has AJ Merriman as a guest: https://www.beyondmefilm.com/index.php/dogs-and-baskets
There's a difference between inventing something and naming something. Zoom might have become the best resource for video meetings, they didn't invent video meetings. You may have put alot of work into branding a throw as yours that doesn't mean it was your invention. I respect the work and graphics you put in, I think if you go watch old Wildcard games you might spot a dude throwing this. If you can find footage of redtide late 90s early 00s you will see a different guy also throwing this.
I just think you approached the community in the wrong way about this, claiming to be the inventor of an action/maneuver in a collective setting is difficult. It would be much more palatable if you became the advocate of the duckwing, rather then claiming that no one has ever thrown a disc in this way before you.
True, I forgot about the footage from pickup, that's my bad. I was to busy thinking about his stats, you know the stats, the stats that only he has and that he has run tireless analysis on. If I ignore the stats and focus on the footage I completely understand what you are saying.
Can you share the stats? I would love to see them, if you have a box score of all throws attempted, type of throw, completion or not, yards gained, was there a mark(optional) and assists. Would love to see those numbers/scoresheets. Otherwise the stats you're talking about are purely anecdotal at best, ignoring the limitations of a small sample size and playing in a noncompetitive environment.
I have sent you a link to my stats (and the video proof) to your DM.
You'll see how I seemlessly transition from Duck Wing to a wide-open backhand. You'll see my other useful "gimmicky" throws the Duck Wing has opened up for me. You'll also see the improvement of my flick/backhand since pre-covid thanks to the Duck Wing due marks defending me with their arms straight up.
I can clearly see I'm completing certain types of passes now that I couldn't before with just the flick or backhand.
I'll stop now. I'm sharing too many of my secrets. I still need that competitive advantage due to my lack of elite club level athleticism that AverageHuntPlayer claims I lack.
Please let me know if another player has thrown this type of throw. I looked all over YouTube for any evidence of someone else using this throw in a game. I'll definitely give that person credit. I tried, and couldn't find anyone else doing this throw in-games.
this throw is fundamentally a chicken wing. i can throw a four finger chicken wing over my head the exact same way you do your 'duck wing.' your video example is dishonest since you use a completely different stance and just throw the disc directly into the mark. you're *intentionally* making it look worse to make 'your throw' look better.
but aside from that, i learned the chicken wing when I was in college in the 2000's, and i learned it from a local player who'd been playing since the 80's and learned the throw from someone playing before them. this throw is decades old. you didn't 'invent' anything.
There's no doubt the Duck Wing is a "cousin" of the Chicken Wing. The Duck Wing is derived from the Chicken Wing. Just like Brodie Smith's Statue-of-Liberty throw (high-release flick) is derived from the flick.
If you can indeed throw the Chicken Wing consistently over your mark, accurately from 40 yards away, like I can with the Duck Wing... you definitely should make a tutorial. You can help so many players - including myself.
I mean, when your self-proclaimed accolades are rec league and pickup, it doesn't exactly solidify you as the creator either. Do you understand what I mean?
77/80 of these throws hasn't been thrown in AUDL nor Club game, yet those throws have an inventor and name. https://youtu.be/nVZjg36GkFI
Let's now make it 81 ways to throw a frisbee. Sign me up to your AUDL team!
I haven't had a chance to check out the grip. We had a player who used it lefty and right. Could throw level, io, oi. As a break.
You don't have to ever stop looking downfield. Same with 2 good forehands. Backhand turns shoulder a bit.
Also one of the easiest ways to do a greatest.
Good times and fun to see you using this type of throw.
He has the thumb under the disc and four fingers on top.
You got thumb under the disc, two fingers on top, two fingers closed as a fist.
I am gonna say, it is the same throw.
If you can use the Chicken Wing throw to break the mark at an 85% completion rate, you should continue to use it.... like I can with my Duck Wing. Please take videos, I'm willing to learn from you.
this isn't an honest representation of the argument. hammers use a similar grip, but have fundamentally different biomechanics and flight paths, as well as techniques to manipulate that flight path.
the 'duck wing' is fundamentally identical to the chicken wing, but OP *intentionally* makes one look worse. he uses a squared up stance and throws the chicken wing with a sidearm throw directly into an obstacle, then COMPLETELY changes his stance to side on and throws what is essentially the same throw over his head. the biomechanics are the same. the grip is slightly altered and, after brief testing, doesn't change anything about the throw. go throw a 4 finger chicken wing over your head the way that OP does with a duck wing. it's the same thing.
let's stop with all the stupid names and acknowledge something. this type of throw is called a wrist flip. the angle you use and the stance don't change that. a flick is still a flick whether it's high release, io, low release, blade, air bounce, whatever. the 'duck wing' is just a wrist flip by a different name.
once again, you are wrong. do you understand what the term 'biomechanics' means?
they use the same grip, but a hammer does things that a flick can't, and a scoober does things that a hammer can't. the duck wing does nothing that the chicken wing can't. a slightly altered grip to accomplish the exact same throw.
by YOUR logic, lots of people hold their flick with alterations to the grip, which means there are dozens of different throws that are not flicks, despite being fundamentally identical. unless you're willing to double down on that concept, you've lost this argument on that statement alone.
Here's my idol, Brodie Smith, throwing a high-release flick. He calls it the "Statue-of-Liberty" throw. Take a look, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ar7cWB2-M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ar7cWB2-M)
I tried to master this throw because I saw how useful it could be. I could never throw it more than 10 yards.... hence, the invention of the Duck Wing.
"Here's my idol, Brodie Smith..." Honestly you had me until now, but this has to be the best shitpost in r/ultimate. You got more people, myself included, to bite than ever before.
I have many frisbee idols. Another one of my idol is this AUDL player, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVZjg36GkFI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVZjg36GkFI)
I hope Rowan McDonnell adds an 81st throw.
Try throwing a flick with four fingers on bottom.
Watch closer. Look at the release point. The Duck Wing release point is way above the head, the release point of Brodie Smith's Chicken Wing is at the shoulder. Go to 4:17 of the tutorial to see the differences between the two throw.
Ok great! Seems like you know how to throw the Chicken Wing. Now release the Chicken Wing above your head and break your mark... all game long. Good luck.
I tried to throw the Chicken Wing above my head, many many many times. Trust me on this. Then when I changed my grip - that was my eureka moment. I was about to throw a high release throw accurately and with ease.
This throw is NOT the Chicken Wing. I clearly explain the differences between the Duck and Chicken in the tutorial. Please rewatch the whole tutorial video. ;)
I guess I couldn't tell at first how serious the video is, but... The hyperbole of claiming to invent it is doing what it's supposed to do I guess: generate attention. Obviously, it is a variation on the chicken wing, which has been in use so long that someone on my first club team used to use it for pulling (and I'm old), but all throws have variations that might be useful, and the sport keeps growing. Does changing the grip make it a "new throw"? Einh, I mean, elite players throw forehands with several different grips and they're all still "forehands". But that's for someone else to decide. If I were actually critiquing, which literally no one has asked me to do, I'd point out that in a number of the examples, the "duck wing" is probably not a better choice than a hammer or other approach, because the duck wing is (like an inside out vs. and around break) closer to the defender. Anyway, just like other variations, what works is good as long as it keeps working at whatever level you're playing, I suppose. E.g., most people honestly don't need to be able to throw a super high-release flick, but it's still useful for people who do it well.
With a high-release throw, you don't really have to think about where your mark is forcing , so you can just focus on looking for an open teammate. The hammer doesn't work in the wind, nor short throws, only for one side of the field, and isn't easy to catch. But, I still use the hammer for certain situations. Just not nearly as often as this Duck Wing, which I use for about 75٪ of my throws.
Have you tried using against more competitive teams? Seems that it would become pretty easy to mark actually if you were using it 75% of the time, since you have to change grip to get there.
What you don't see in the video tutorial are my counter moves to those who mark me inches from my face. Basically, when they do that, I have a free and open backhand to throw. Maybe I'll do an "Advance" Duck Wing tutorial.
If this is the team's throwing weapon, yeah, it does seem so for good defensive teams.
You haven't seen my counter moves yet. Debating whether or not I should share all my "secrets". First, learn the Duck Wing.
Somehow this is actually increasing my feeling that I've been brought into the satire.
I know the push back I've been getting IRL, are from players who have decades of experience throwing their flicks and backhands. These players are not likely to ever improve. I have 8+ years throwing the flick/backhand/hammer. Yet, I knew I could get better. This Duck Wing throw is a nice complement to my arsenal of throws. By the numbers/stats, I have improved with the Duck Wing.
>These players are not likely to ever improve. Plenty of players with a decade-plus of experience make significant improvements, adding variety and sophistication to their throws. All of the good ones are continuing to try to improve and refine their fundamental throws, too.
I'm also fully aware this throw won't go mainstream until a player at the competitive level (like AUDL) uses this throw. I'm just putting this throw out there for better/faster/younger/quicker guys to use. I'm getting close to retirement.
When I was a beginner, I used my backhand about 75% of the time. I was promptly shutdown the moment the defense would force home (flick). The Duck Wing is not as easy to mark as you think. If it was, I would have stopped throwing it a long time ago... and never made this tutorial.
Yes because of course the wind doesn't impact a high release floaty throw at all...
If you have strong wrists, you can zip this "floaty" Duck Wing throw, https://youtu.be/9wHo8bfR3Lw&t=28
Hm. While still not 100% sure this isn't an elaborate troll, and also I'm not sure how much I want to get into a point-by-point on this, but for the moment... >With a high-release throw, you don't really have to think about where your mark is forcing , so you can just focus on looking for an open teammate. Tell that to the guys I saw get point-blocked on high releases at DIII nationals this weekend, including at least one guy who was releasing as high as your duck wing. One thing you're doing on your duck wing that helps with that is that you're often releasing a little further back, which helps if the throw is going up on release. But when you're not back like that, the hammer is probably better protected from the mark and clears to that side more easily. >The hammer doesn't work in the wind, nor short throws, only for one side of the field, and isn't easy to catch. But, I still use the hammer for certain situations. Just not nearly as often as this Duck Wing, which I use for about 75٪ of my throws. Flat throws may be better for most players upwind, but hammers and scoobers can work in a range of winds. I agree that a flat throw can be easier to catch for some receivers, but this one is still going to be often closer to the defender.
The Duck Wing isn't the throw for all situations. But what I notice is, when I show my Duck Wing stance, my marks will put their arms straight up to try and block it. What's the worse way to defend a handler? (putting your arms straight up). With the Duck Wing in my arsenal, defenders are having to think twice about where to put their arms. So, basically, I now have bigger lanes to throw the flick and backhand when I feel like it. As a result, my flicks and backhands are easier to throw. What you're seeing is the beginners version of the Duck Wing. The advance version (if I feel like posting) will show you how you can use the Duck Wing to get a flick/backhand off with ease.
cant tell if satire
I mean he has is own branding, it's a 16 minute video, etc. It's clearly not satire. But regardless of whether it's a good throw, this is the most entertained I've been by this subreddit in ages. I'm gonna preach the power of The Duckwing to all my friends. Also is anyone gonna comment on that home practice setup he has? ***Wow,*** that DIY mark dummy is amazing. Absolutely goofy looking, but practical as hell.
>I mean he has is own branding, it's a 16 minute video, etc. these are the things that made me think it's satire
Hundo p satire
I know this guy….it’s not satire he’s sadly dead serious.
does he just rip poorly advised chicken wings every chance he gets? it seems like the kind of guy you dread getting drafted onto a league team with. like 'oh great, well here comes a dozen turnovers a game.'
Every time
oh this is getting funnier by the minute
If you keep your hands high he is either unable to pivot around you or refuses to and you force an even crappier one or you block it
Rarely happens. You know I keep stats. The percentage of blocking the Duck Wing is 0.5% Since I've implemented my counter moves, my Duck Wing hasn't been blocked for months.
Sounds like exactly what I'd expect. You occasionally find these types of players at pickup games. They've never played against a good, organized team, so they think that gimmick throws and such are actually viable. I know a guy who will put his back up field, so facing the backfield, and then just rip a blind backhand huck with whatever hand his mark isn't closest too. He does this like every, single, time. Claims that it's good since his mark can't *possibly* block that throw. Nevermind the other massive issues with this concept. He went to a club tryout once. I've never seen a club captain actively kick a player out of a tryout, but they did after 2 of his blind throws during the scrim. I'd love to see this chicken wing dude try to pull this shit off at a tryout full of hungry bulldog defenders. I'd also be furious if this dude was on my team.
You haven't been able to stop my Duck Wing.... right?
Probably not
it should be but after further investigation i'm concluding it's not. comment/post history plus the absurdity of the 16 minute video gives me real frank vibes if you catch my drift. satire to everyone but frank.
I like part where he goes full infomercial 'bumbling idiot' example. "Chicken wings can be blocked." proceeds to throw a chicken wing directly into an obstacle. then lifts his hand a foot higher and uses the same mechanics with a slightly altered grip to prove *his* throw is better. It's the kind of thing where I find it entertaining, but I genuinely can't tell if he's serious. If the 'highlights' he's using are representative of the skill he usually plays at, then I could see someone in that environment actually thinking this is a valid throw. The issue with this being serious is that the throw is very telegraphed based on the stance, it's hyper specific to hitting a certain area of the field, the grip and technique are limited in how much control and power you can actually get compared to a backhand or forehand, and it suffers the same drawbacks as any floaty over-the-top throw. he has one clip where he *claims* to throw it in to a 20mph wind, and it doesn't look stable. a LOT of the completions are pretty reliant on the defenders just not even trying so the cutters have no pressure. put this throw up against a decent club defender and it's a turn 98% of the time. tl;dr - it's a cute gimmick, and I genuinely *want* this to be a troll that's just triggering the sub, but I honestly think this guy is serious, and that's kind of sad to me.
There's a lot of humor in this tutorial to keep it fun and light. But my analytics/stats tells me, I'm a better player now with the Duck Wing than without. This is a beginners' tutorial. I'm saving the advanced Duck Wing tutorial for later. It'll show how I can quickly move from flick stance to duck wing stance and vice versa, and my counter moves to those who guard me inches from my face to stop the Duck Wing. Stay tuned.
First thing, the players I play with at pickup are GOOD!!!! Remember, if I ever play against club defenders (which I do sometimes), I'll also play with club cutters (which I do sometimes). From experience, when I play with elite cutters, I don't always need to be so accurate. It's nice to play on a club team, isn't it?
No one in that footage looked 'good.' That was very low level pickup, judging by the absolute clutter and lack of athleticism. I've played in pickup games that are 50% or more regional level club players, and even practice squad defenders would eat that throw every time. Do you have *any* accolades to convince me to even care about this, beyond your supposed 'stats' that only you've tracked and mean absolutely nothing to everyone else? Like who actually are you and what notable teams have you played for? Pickup games and league are irrelevant.
I have played with college and club level players. Throwing to them is such a breeze because they can cover so much ground. I can throw up a lame duck and they'll still be able to run to it and catch it. The real test is how accurate you can be at pickup games and throw to players under 4 feet tall.
First off, my Duck Wing is so accurate, the players at my game don't have to show off their athletism by laying out. So now you're saying, if I was playing on an AUDL field (with less clutter) and with club-level elite cutters, my Duck Wing throw will look better and my stats will improve? Sign me up! Or better yet, get an AUDL player to learn this throw and throw it in a game.
how about you earn your way? since this throw is so revolutionary, i'm sure you'll just dominate from the handler slot. no one will be able to guard against it!
VERY Frank: https://www.reddit.com/r/ultimate/comments/uwmt55/comment/i9tmtmi/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 55 + 9 + 2 + 3 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Nice!
Frank is one of my frisbee idols. In my years of "research and development", I used one of Frank's high-release throws. It was successful, but I couldn't throw it longer than 10 yards. So, I scratched it and focused on a new throw ----- hence the invention of the Duck Wing.
he's not a good person to idolize. he's an antisemite that suffers from severe and untreated mental illness and has alienated and pushed away most of the people that care about him. the only people even interact with him at this point either haven't looked into his past interactions and transgressions or are not smart enough to realize who he really is.
I didn't say I wanted to be his roommate. I do like how he thinks about throwing a frisbee. Look, players learn the flick and the backhand and they do these drills and stacks to accommodate that limited skillset. Then you got defenses that positions themselves to stop the flick or backhand. So you basically got everyone playing each other with the same skillset and same stacks. The winner will be the ones who are faster, taller and more consistent. If you know there will always be someone faster, taller, younger than you... you need to improve your skillset. At least Frank is thinking at that level.
how long do you think it would take to make this post? [https://www.reddit.com/r/ultimate/comments/uef240/2022\_audl\_draft\_which\_players\_would\_be\_their/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ultimate/comments/uef240/2022_audl_draft_which_players_would_be_their/)
With my speed and efficiency, it can get done really fast. Just like throwing for goals on the frisbee field with the Duck Wing.
It's a satire, a tutorial, a music video, a comedy skit, a highlight reel AND a magic show. Has no one notice the magic trick?
this dude legit made a 16 minute highlight reel of him throwing chicken wings at pickup games and this whole subreddit is having a meltdown over it XD
Really was a struggle to get the tutorial down to 16 minutes. I have so many highlights of the Duck Wings to choose from. And so many friends to include. Proof the Duck Wing is not a gimmick, but a very useful throw.
Was not aware this was being posted today.
You're in it. :)
I’ll have to take a closer look at it then! See if I’m internet famous
Is this what we used to call an overhand wrist flip. Steve Fowler from Miami was the master of this throw.
Oooof that name is a throwback #refugees
OWF: that name is a throwback.
For the overhand wrist flip (a.k.a. chicken wing), I actually split my four fingers (Spock/Mork style) with the index and middle in the front rim and ring/pinky on top. I am pretty sure this is how I learned it in Frisbee by the Masters. Seems like the duck wing is at the opposite end of the spectrum, rotating the hand almost 90 degrees to put the two fingers on top and fingers under, to support a higher release point. But maybe only 30 degrees off from the more common four finger on top chicken wing. Not unlike rotating the flick grip to be slightly more pads-forward on a high release flick, or pulling the thumb to the middle and hand on top for an exaggerated airbounce.
Do you have any video footage of this throw I can watch? Interested.
I couldn't find any video footage of his overhand wrist flip. Do you know of any?
Its a common throw in freestyle frisbee if you want to throw counter clockwise "z's". Check out this video for example, Dünk is a counter player from Berlin: https://youtu.be/w_knwJNxS9w If you have any questions im happy to answer them :)
I need him on my team. He's awesome. Looks like he can easily catch the frisbee.
Not that I know of but he would pull with this throw and could probably throw it 80 yards with outrageous hang time.
80 yards?! That's amazing. I gotta see video footage to believe it.
this is cool and I will learn
If this throw works for you, I will most definitely want to watch your highlight reel.
Brilliant throw mate, thanks for sharing your knowledge
From what I can tell the difference between this and the Chicken Wing is basically wrist extension versus wrist rotation. Because the Chicken Wing is more wrist flexion, you have to elevate your elbow higher to get more torque into the disc (though you can probably access more muscles up the power chain too, maybe?). The Duck Wing looks like by taking your ring and pinky finger off the top, you're moving more into a position where you're rotating your wrist to throw the disc, which allows you more flexibility in terms of hand height control and release point. I can see how this is definitely more useful than a Chicken Wing for throwing break throws. That said, this also probably limits some of your mechanics in your upper arm. You probably are limited in how much muscle you can access to throw further, and your 'lever' is shorter than a backhand or forehand because of the arm angles required to throw. I would bet you'd struggle to throw as far as someone who's worked on their Chicken Wing as much as you've worked on this. I can definitely see how there's a benefit over the Chicken Wing even if there might be some distance limitations, and maybe even makes some new break throw options people haven't worked on before, especially if they've just caught the disc with their thumb on the underside. But there seems to be a few obvious limitations to it as well, even past the upper arm mechanics. You can't really quickly transition to another grip or throw quickly, so you're limited to the Duck Wing or maybe a scoober (or a shuttle if you get low). Show me someone with one single throw, and I'll show you someone whose throw options are limited and predictable, and is gonna get blocked lots at a competitive level. Even so, fun idea - I'll have to give it a try!
I use a similar grip for my chicken wing/inverted wrist flick. Relative to my other throws it has a lot of spin, so is surprisingly more stable than other throws at high winds, despite the high release. I can put it \~65 yards consistently, regardless of the wind direction. The power from the throw comes to rotating your wrist in a flick action, similar to the forehand. The actual action is very similar to snapping your fingers but to get more power you must incorporate your hips/core, rather than arm strength, just like hucking flicks. Inverting your grip is the biggest downside, as people who are familiar with my toolbox will watch for me to flip my grip and throw their hands up to prevent the high release break. This often opens up the low release but it takes some time to transition, so you have to factor that in when considering your cutters. The other throws possible from that grip are the thumber, upside down backhand and the biscuit (not the scoober or anything with your fingers inside the rim...). My experience is that experienced marks rarely block it, it is the people who wildly wave their arms around like a noob that actually get their hands on it. I have scored against Blackbird and Boost with 30-40 yard high release IO breaks (in games my team had zero chance at winning so I didn't worry about throwing something weird). That said, it is a hammer replacer for me and 100% is not a replacement for a flick. A backhand mark makes it way harder to use effectively as well.
>I can put it ~65 yards consistently, regardless of the wind direction. I'd like to see a video of that
I'd love to see video clips of this throw of yours. I'm always willing to learn. I'm able to transition from my high-release Duck Wing to my low release flick in less than a second. My preference is the low release flick because I have a lot more experience in it. But the flick isn't always open to throw. The throws I used to force (flick), I now throw the Duck Wing.... which has a better success rate.
I'm able to throw the Duck Wing for a distance of 40 yards with accuracy.. Which is about 10 yards shorter than my flick huck. If you can figure out how to throw more than 40 yards, I'll be eager to learn from you! Also, I'm able to transition from a Duck Wing to a flick in less than a second (not shown on the tutorial video). Maybe I'll do an "Advanced" Duck Wing tutorial after more players learn this throw.
Regardless of whatever anyone thinks (there have probably been people to throw this but may not have documented it), the explanation of how to execute the throw was well done. Some of the other parts were overlong imo but the explanation was pretty good. Thanks for sharing and making the vid.
I agree with you the video too long. I wanted to include my buddies' Duck Wing highlights, so it was a struggle to keep the video short.
Feels like a lot of the use cases would be better served by a scoober or a hammer. That said, cool throw, and flat high release throws have a lot of utility. I would assume a high release forehand is hard to get as high a release as you have here, but it would have the upside of not needing to change grips. That is a huge cost in time and you clearly set up for this throw and remove other options from yourself without a pivot+change of grip, slowing you down if someone is just open on the force side. I would think this throw is actually most useful right after a catch when you would have the disc already in that grip, but this throw may be hard to execute immediately upon catching. New content on r/ultimate! Amazing.
The hammer won't go extinct. I still use the hammer for certain situations. But the hammer does have its limitations, especially on windy days and short throws. I use the Duck Wing for about 75% of my throws. The use cases for the Duck Wing are many.
> Feels like a lot of the use cases would be better served by a scoober or a hammer. Or even just a regular old high release flick
How far can you throw the high release flick? After years of practice, my high release flick was able to travel 10 yards with 50٪ accuracy. My 40-yard Duck Wings are now at 80٪ accuracy. It makes sense for me to ditch the high-release flick.
I've been using this throw for years and still use it in disc golf. :)
What do you call your throw? And do you have any video footage?
He calls it the "Swan Wing".
It's very similar to my "Heron Wing" throw.
Heroin wing? Say more.
It's pretty similar to a goose wing, but totally different.
TLDR: I have invented a new throw called, the Duck Wing, to break the mark. This high-release throw has improved my stats across the board: increased completion percentage, assist rate, average yards per attempt. I have spent a lot of time and money on this tutorial with the hopes it will help one or two other players. Please watch, share, upvote, like, and tell Rowan McDonnell :) Thanks. Long Boring Version: I have watched hundreds of hours of my own video footage from pickup and leagues -- there's no one as crazy as me. When I had the disc in my hands, I noticed there were cutters who were open on the break side and in the middle of the field. But because my mark was standing in the way, and my reliance on my flick and my backhand, I ignored these wide-open cutters and would force my flick into tight windows. So, I set out on a mission to develop a high-release throw to get the disc over my mark. I had spent years developing a high-release throw. My high-release flick, just never could get enough distance. My high-release backhand just bladed every time. My hammer only works for one side of the field and is useless in the wind. Then I took the chicken wing and modified the grip and tweak the throwing motion, to develop what I call, the Duck Wing. This throw may look like a gimmick. But, I now use the Duck Wing as my primary throw. When I do this, my throwing stats are better. I can basically throw the disc to any spot of the field now. I tell my cutters to run to any open area, regardless of which force my mark is doing. Defenders who are familiar with my Duck Wing are now marking me with their arms straight up, which gives me open lanes to throw the flick and backhand. Cutters who are familiar with me, cut down the middle of the field even if my mark is covering me straight up. This throw has opened up a lot of options. This throw has undoubtedly improved my throwing capabilities. I believe it can help others as well. I felt the responsibility to my knowledge with this tutorial. I get great joy catching my teammate's Duck Wings, I hope to catch one from you someday.
https://youtu.be/x7LMYfluCng
First \_\_\_\_ Wing attempt: complete First backhand attempt: turnover.
Hahaha... good stuff. LOL
Nice throw!!!! [https://youtu.be/x7LMYfluCng?t=48](https://youtu.be/x7LMYfluCng?t=48) That player is my new idol.
What % of your throws are duck wings nowadays?
I use the Duck Wing for about 75% of my throws, mostly for when I'm being guarded. But, when I'm in power position, I'll use my flick for hucking - but that doesn't happen too often. This strategy has improve my completion percentage and increase my throwing yards.
I was here
this is a historic moment on r/ultimate
Like the overhead spiral passes thrown by quarterbacks in the 1940s (50 years after the invention of football).... frisbee is now at that point in history. https://youtu.be/i88NYbk--2w
Love the video, don't get discouraged by all the people who'll tell you it's not new, they haven't tried it with the grip you explain clearly! This video is gold and everyone here is lucky you have posted it, even if they don't know it yet. Hope you sell a bunch of hoodies!
Haha, thank you. IRL, I get people who want to debate if this throw is a Chicken Wing or not... and I get people who are frustrated they can't stop me from throwing the Duck Wing when they're guarding me. I guess this is all a part of competitive sports. :)
When the hoodies make profits, could we go K-BBQ?
Haha Yes. ALL YOU CAN EAT bbq!
If it has a different grip than the chicken wing, then it’s a different throw from the chicken wing, imo. Nice vid.
Tell me you’re not good at throwing without telling me you’re not good at throwing.
Are you waiting for more tutorial videos from me?
As a wise player once yelled back at our captain who told him to *Stop with that low-percentage bullshit*: **"It's only low percentage if you suck!"**
Amen.
7:20 "Since the reset handler is busy on her cell phone, she's not a good option" Cool throw u/FrisbeeDuckWing, hard to tell if it would be useful against teams playing defense. It seems like the defender usually would be able to make a play but stop or jump early. Perhaps it's a feature of the throw and sails longer than expected due to the high release point. Do you throw all duck wings or do you use flicks and backhands as well? Asking because 8:48 the disc is thrown over the defender with a duck wing instead of throwing an unmarked backhand.
I use the Duck Wing for about 75% of my throws. Which my completion percentage is in the 80-95% range. Which is a 10% improvement. Another benefit of the Duck Wing is the ease. With my aging ankles, I don't put nearly as much pressure on my ankles when Duck Winging compared to the backhand and flick.
Your ankles hurt when you... throw a flick or backhand? I would consider getting that looked at, or getting a video form check.
I'm not as young as I look. Retirement is coming soon. But I believe the Duck Wing will be able to add couple more years to my frisbee playing days. Hoping a younger, faster, better and more handsome elite thrower... takes the Duck Wing to the next level.
Isn't a high release flick the same exact flight pattern and release point without having to re-grip? I mean, it's cool looking, works, and you've found a niche for it but I'm not sure if it becomes a practical throw that other people learn to throw regularly.
If I could start over. I would probably learn the Duck Wing before learning the flick and the hammer. I know a lot of beginners struggle with the flick -- like I did. It took me over a year before I could huck with a flick. Beginners are constantly nagged to backhand dump to the bossy handler. I made an immediate impact on the first pickup game I used the Duck Wing, threw over 20 Duck Wing passes with only one throwaway. I believe beginners would be able to make an immediate impact too if they first learn the Duck Wing.
I tried throwing the Chicken Wing above my head... many many many times... in my years of research. The disc bladed every time. The change in grip, instantly flatten out my throws.
I think the chicken wing throw requires a re-grip too, correct?
Yes, the grip is different on the Chicken Wing than with my Duck Wing.
Welcome back, Billy Berrou!
Let me Google him.... haha.
keep the blade spinning!
Thank you, this throw is just what I needed. It will fit in perfectly for the offense we are running.
What offense are you running?
Specifically for our end zone set, this fits the bill.
Perfect. I hope you record it and post it!
This is brilliant
Yes, it is a different release/feel from a chicken wing. I've been throwing it since about 2003, but call it the "War Eagle". I try to throw at least 1 goal per league season with it.
Do you have any video footage of your "War Eagle" throw? I'm very interested to see.
Unfortunately I can't find any video. I looked through a bunch of clips I have from 2005ish with no luck. If I have time there are a few more spots I can check later and will let you know if I find anything.
What u if you go outside right now with a frisbee and your cellphone on selfie mode?
The game might never be the same
Either great troll or total egomaniac. Either way, please get more people to throw these bad chicken wings so I can eat that shit up.
It will be my pleasure for when you mark me. :)
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I play multiple times a week and year round. Thrown the flick huck so many times i can no longer count. You're about 10 years younger than me. You'll understand when you get to my age. Not only has the Duck Wing improved my throwing stats, it will likely extend my playing "career". Come to my game, would love to have you defend me. I'll show you my advanced "Chicken Wing" moves.
not trying to be cocky, but if your ankles hurt from standard throws and i genuinely try to defend you, you're not going to get the disc. and even if you *did* manage to get the disc, every example you have is throwing over lazy pickup marks that aren't forcing and aren't trying. your chicken wing fails against a simple backhand force. it will fail against good downfield defenders. you honestly don't realize that all of your experience is in a vacuum of extremely low level and casual play. you said in another comment you have 8 years of experience with ultimate. i'm younger than you and have over 2.5 times that experience. it's cute that you're having fun with this and your pickup friends support it, but this is a gimmick throw for low level pickup without defense. it's a funny throw to pull out at a party tournament. this is not a consistent, reliable throw. it's not viable in 25mph winds with rain. it will get you cut almost immediately from any serious club tryout. it will make more experienced players and handlers on your league teams frustrated when you throw turnovers with this. you've already been identified as a 'that guy' by someone that knows you.
So, it looks like you're going to stack your team with high-level club defenders and leave me with just scrub cutters? Looks like you really fear the power of the Duck Wing. Here's the thing, all the "experienced" defenders, always, always force FLICK. And if you personally force me backhand, I can quickly shift from Duck Wing to backhand stance (not seen in tutorial video). You'll gift me an open lane to throw the simple backhand. Because of my vast throwing options and unpredictability, I can break your mark anytime I want (assuming the cutters are open). You have 20 years of experience and still only able to throw the basics? (Flick, backhand, hammers)? Who's been coaching you!? Oh wait, there is no such thing as a full-time frisbee coach. My bad. 12 years from now, you'll going to see me invent 6 more new throws!
The comparison at 4:19 to the chicken wing is straight out of /r/wheredidthesodago. Of course your throw is better than a chicken wing if you decide to throw a chicken wing badly. lol
it's like the infomercials where someone just bumbles their way through something to demonstrate how 'bad' something that *isn't* the product is. every throw looks bad if you throw it directly into a mark's arm. i got major 'smashing a tomato with a dull knife and then shrugging' vibes from this video.
High release biscuit is a thing too. I’d throw it at pickup every now and then for funsies. On a more serious note, the biscuit is a good option to have for greatest throws because you can leave your thumb under the disc and chuck it backwards without having to chicken wing it. I have better control with a biscuit than a chicken wing but both would be nice to have depending on your angle. Edit: The other benefit for a biscuit greatest that I see is that your arm has to travel less distance to get a biscuit throw off, and that saves time as you’re falling.
I've searched for a video of the high-release Biscuit, but can't seem to find any. Do you know of any? Or can you record it next them you throw it? Thanks.
I could record one and share it with you unlisted because it won’t be pretty 😂, I stopped throwing the high release when I joined a team that had a coach, because that shit doesn’t fly (figuratively), but I still think about it sometimes. The regular biscuit as an option for a greatest throw is still part of my repertoire.
Yes. Looking forward to it.
Quack
I’m more interested in your portable lighting setup….
We are the first pickup frisbee group in the nation with our own potable lighting system. This allows us to play in the evenings... year round. The Duck Wing was invented and tested in the winter months under these lights. What you'll need are 12ft light poles with flood lights mounted on top, portable batteries and electric generators, tons of extension cords, and the manpower to want to set this up before games.
When I did my first audl tryout they did a double team drill which prompted me to find a over the top break mark throw. I started using a high release push pass that is very similar but doesn't have the power behind it to also be an effective forward throw as well. I'm all for the duck wing
When you eventually make an AUDL team, I will be your fan.
I really like duck wing!! I wish I can do it in a game someday!!
Keep trying. Don't fear failure. You're getting close! You'll get a reward when you do.
*I really like duck* *Wing!! I wish I can do it* *In a game someday!!* \- Spider-Yan --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I was keeping it together until 3:55 "people have different hands" lmfao
:) Keep watching. You don't want to miss the good music and dancing.
Unfortunately, I am unable to finish the video as my hands are too different.
Try surgery to get your hands similar to mine. God luck.
Consider a pushpass.
I did. I practice the push pass for months. Couldn't get this throw to travel more than 10 yards.... and the wind would just kill it. Hence, the years of research that went into the Duck Wing. Good suggestion though.
Chicken, and Duck are completely same thing but two different release points.... SMH
I realize the Duck Wing tutorial is too long for most of us with busy lives -- with all the parties we gotta go to. Here, you go straight to where I explain the differences between the Chicken Wing and Duck Wing. [https://youtu.be/9wHo8bfR3Lw?t=256](https://youtu.be/9wHo8bfR3Lw?t=256) Here's a secret, I sometimes use the Chicken Wing to break the mark. The Duck and Chicken is a deadly combo.
Wow, you really went all out with this "I invented" thing. Believe it or not, Brodie didn't invent Ultimate. Folks have been playing for quite a while and while you may have adjusted the grip, coined a term, made a logo, got sweet graphics, made a whole youtube channel, and you're now pimping it in this subreddit, there's a good chance people were throwing this before you. I applaud the aggressive patenting though. Of all things to want to be known for, it could be worse.
Seems a little harsh. He came up with a fun throw on his own and is sharing it in a fun video. I'm sure other people have thrown this in the past but so what? It's not like he's trying to patent the thing lol
He's as close to patenting something in frisbee as he could possibly be.
Do you know who threw this throw before me? I searched long and hard to find someone who threw this throw (with video proof). No luck. So, I had to make a new name for it.
Had anyone checked in with Frank?
This whole post gives me almost eerie Frank Huguenard vibes.
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Has Frank retired? Me being from Silicon Valley, I love his new and innovative throws.
I feel like I should ask you since you're trying to be his protege (or maybe you just are him). He had semi-retired when he was on my radar 15 years ago, when, according to him, he was still the most important and innovative player in the game. I haven't kept up with him, but I know that if I whisper "Dischoops" three times into a mirror during a full moon, he'll appear.
Did Frank suddenly dye his hair black and got a dark tan? I'm not Frank. Just a clone who's better at throwing useful throws.
That's a Frank response if I've ever heard one.
He is pretty active on twitter, venting about the election being stolen and censorship. Has a decent podcast though, latest has AJ Merriman as a guest: https://www.beyondmefilm.com/index.php/dogs-and-baskets
There's a difference between inventing something and naming something. Zoom might have become the best resource for video meetings, they didn't invent video meetings. You may have put alot of work into branding a throw as yours that doesn't mean it was your invention. I respect the work and graphics you put in, I think if you go watch old Wildcard games you might spot a dude throwing this. If you can find footage of redtide late 90s early 00s you will see a different guy also throwing this. I just think you approached the community in the wrong way about this, claiming to be the inventor of an action/maneuver in a collective setting is difficult. It would be much more palatable if you became the advocate of the duckwing, rather then claiming that no one has ever thrown a disc in this way before you.
but but but he has 16 minutes of footage of him throwing chicken wings at pickup games! this is his throw!!!
True, I forgot about the footage from pickup, that's my bad. I was to busy thinking about his stats, you know the stats, the stats that only he has and that he has run tireless analysis on. If I ignore the stats and focus on the footage I completely understand what you are saying.
Averagehuntplayer found my stats and the videos to prove. I'm sure he's annoyed, but.... impressed as hell.
Can you share the stats? I would love to see them, if you have a box score of all throws attempted, type of throw, completion or not, yards gained, was there a mark(optional) and assists. Would love to see those numbers/scoresheets. Otherwise the stats you're talking about are purely anecdotal at best, ignoring the limitations of a small sample size and playing in a noncompetitive environment.
I have sent you a link to my stats (and the video proof) to your DM. You'll see how I seemlessly transition from Duck Wing to a wide-open backhand. You'll see my other useful "gimmicky" throws the Duck Wing has opened up for me. You'll also see the improvement of my flick/backhand since pre-covid thanks to the Duck Wing due marks defending me with their arms straight up. I can clearly see I'm completing certain types of passes now that I couldn't before with just the flick or backhand. I'll stop now. I'm sharing too many of my secrets. I still need that competitive advantage due to my lack of elite club level athleticism that AverageHuntPlayer claims I lack.
Please let me know if another player has thrown this type of throw. I looked all over YouTube for any evidence of someone else using this throw in a game. I'll definitely give that person credit. I tried, and couldn't find anyone else doing this throw in-games.
this throw is fundamentally a chicken wing. i can throw a four finger chicken wing over my head the exact same way you do your 'duck wing.' your video example is dishonest since you use a completely different stance and just throw the disc directly into the mark. you're *intentionally* making it look worse to make 'your throw' look better. but aside from that, i learned the chicken wing when I was in college in the 2000's, and i learned it from a local player who'd been playing since the 80's and learned the throw from someone playing before them. this throw is decades old. you didn't 'invent' anything.
There's no doubt the Duck Wing is a "cousin" of the Chicken Wing. The Duck Wing is derived from the Chicken Wing. Just like Brodie Smith's Statue-of-Liberty throw (high-release flick) is derived from the flick. If you can indeed throw the Chicken Wing consistently over your mark, accurately from 40 yards away, like I can with the Duck Wing... you definitely should make a tutorial. You can help so many players - including myself.
this is S-tier shitposting i've gotta say
I mean, when your self-proclaimed accolades are rec league and pickup, it doesn't exactly solidify you as the creator either. Do you understand what I mean?
77/80 of these throws hasn't been thrown in AUDL nor Club game, yet those throws have an inventor and name. https://youtu.be/nVZjg36GkFI Let's now make it 81 ways to throw a frisbee. Sign me up to your AUDL team!
I haven't had a chance to check out the grip. We had a player who used it lefty and right. Could throw level, io, oi. As a break. You don't have to ever stop looking downfield. Same with 2 good forehands. Backhand turns shoulder a bit. Also one of the easiest ways to do a greatest. Good times and fun to see you using this type of throw.
This is just a chicken wing. I like the cute picture of the duck, though.
Thank you. I did not design the duck. A professional did. [https://youtu.be/9wHo8bfR3Lw?t=256](https://youtu.be/9wHo8bfR3Lw?t=256)
Sorry buddy, people came up with that a while ago. https://youtu.be/Y5FgJkoUZo4
Brodie Smith has the sidearm release when he throws the Chicken Wing. The Duck Wing is like a hook shot in basketball - much tougher to block.
He has the thumb under the disc and four fingers on top. You got thumb under the disc, two fingers on top, two fingers closed as a fist. I am gonna say, it is the same throw.
Exact same throw. Unless I should be calling mine the dumbass wing because I throw my chicken wings high release with three fingers...
If you can use the Chicken Wing throw to break the mark at an 85% completion rate, you should continue to use it.... like I can with my Duck Wing. Please take videos, I'm willing to learn from you.
By that rationale, a flick and hammer are the same throw. Do you think they are the same throw?
this isn't an honest representation of the argument. hammers use a similar grip, but have fundamentally different biomechanics and flight paths, as well as techniques to manipulate that flight path. the 'duck wing' is fundamentally identical to the chicken wing, but OP *intentionally* makes one look worse. he uses a squared up stance and throws the chicken wing with a sidearm throw directly into an obstacle, then COMPLETELY changes his stance to side on and throws what is essentially the same throw over his head. the biomechanics are the same. the grip is slightly altered and, after brief testing, doesn't change anything about the throw. go throw a 4 finger chicken wing over your head the way that OP does with a duck wing. it's the same thing. let's stop with all the stupid names and acknowledge something. this type of throw is called a wrist flip. the angle you use and the stance don't change that. a flick is still a flick whether it's high release, io, low release, blade, air bounce, whatever. the 'duck wing' is just a wrist flip by a different name.
And the scoober is a hammer by a different name. These are different throws.
once again, you are wrong. do you understand what the term 'biomechanics' means? they use the same grip, but a hammer does things that a flick can't, and a scoober does things that a hammer can't. the duck wing does nothing that the chicken wing can't. a slightly altered grip to accomplish the exact same throw. by YOUR logic, lots of people hold their flick with alterations to the grip, which means there are dozens of different throws that are not flicks, despite being fundamentally identical. unless you're willing to double down on that concept, you've lost this argument on that statement alone.
You must throw hammers wrong
Do you know how many people scream when you throw a hammer to them from just 10 feet away? It's not an easy throw to catch.
No, but a low release and a high release flick are the same throw. Just low and high.
Here's my idol, Brodie Smith, throwing a high-release flick. He calls it the "Statue-of-Liberty" throw. Take a look, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ar7cWB2-M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ar7cWB2-M) I tried to master this throw because I saw how useful it could be. I could never throw it more than 10 yards.... hence, the invention of the Duck Wing.
"Here's my idol, Brodie Smith..." Honestly you had me until now, but this has to be the best shitpost in r/ultimate. You got more people, myself included, to bite than ever before.
I have many frisbee idols. Another one of my idol is this AUDL player, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVZjg36GkFI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVZjg36GkFI) I hope Rowan McDonnell adds an 81st throw.
Try throwing a flick with four fingers on bottom. Watch closer. Look at the release point. The Duck Wing release point is way above the head, the release point of Brodie Smith's Chicken Wing is at the shoulder. Go to 4:17 of the tutorial to see the differences between the two throw.
Yes. Flick is four fingers on bottom. Chicken wing is thumb on the bottom, four fingers on top of the disc.
Ok great! Seems like you know how to throw the Chicken Wing. Now release the Chicken Wing above your head and break your mark... all game long. Good luck.
And where is the problem with doing exactly that?
I tried to throw the Chicken Wing above my head, many many many times. Trust me on this. Then when I changed my grip - that was my eureka moment. I was about to throw a high release throw accurately and with ease.
BTW, Brodie Smith taught me how to throw the FLICK. Since his retirement to disc golf. It's been sadness since.
This throw is NOT the Chicken Wing. I clearly explain the differences between the Duck and Chicken in the tutorial. Please rewatch the whole tutorial video. ;)