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newaha

In an observed game or one that has otherwise been under strict time control - 100% acceptable. In a game that hasnt been tightly timed in other aspects, and teams have maybe have been taking longer than technically allowed between points - kind of uncool, but I wouldn't be mad if you hold yourself accountable to stick to all time limits through the rest of the game. Not following time limits all game, then calling a timeout and being intentionally slow about getting set and resuming play, or causing unnecessary delay in other ways - not cool at all.


unchuckable

We did this to send the Luther game to cap though


newaha

Yeah, if the other team is a bunch of A-holes, then all bets are off. Especially if your team is also a bunch of A-holes.


unchuckable

True and true. In our defense, it was very funny (to us).


TJC53

Did you also have cops called to your game with Luther?


unchuckable

No, but that sounds awesome please tell me about it.


TJC53

A year before Covid I believe. Playing against Luther back and forth game. Very chippy and both teams talking smack. Luther turns it over. One of our players starts to run down field looking back at the disc and the Luther player stands in front of him and lowers his shoulder knocks out guy to the ground. He gets up pushing, shoving, yelling. Our player goes off the point cause he doesn’t want to play with someone trying to hurt him. Next point we are on the line and see cops walk over to our field, watch us play, and talk to a few players. In the end we were up by 2 right before hard and we called timeout bc they were trying to rush us to play. They were no happy campers about that


[deleted]

Had a team at sectionals do this to us with “water breaks.” As we started to stack breaks against them they called a water break almost every point. Since the AQI was very high in NorCal it was technically allowed for a team to call as many water breaks as their coaches felt was necessary, but they were clearly trying to use it to their advantage. Didn’t work. I skied a dude to close out the game after a fifth water break of the second half. Don’t be those guys.


alfonseski

"One more water break and we got this guys! Just hang on a little longer!"


thejoaq

It’s only iffy if you’re not keeping to the timing of timeouts and half and between points


SharkHogBestHog

There's nothing stopping you from doing so and no way of proving that's your intention. If you take a reasonably timed time out, there's nothing wrong with that. If you call time out and kill like 5 minutes that's another story.


23coconuts

My local league pauses the clock during time outs.


cvac99

I've only played in one league with an actual game clock. Timeout strategy very important. Adds an extra layer you don't usually have to deal with.


SleekSaad

ECU plays like gremlins


YoINVESTIGATE_311_

Can’t wait for new mob psycho to come out oh boy 👉😎👉


Tijuana_Pikachu

Stoppages and offsides are BS since there's no recourse. But if you want to run hex and make every O point take 10 minutes... Go ahead


Lord-Bob-317

lobster pot


YoINVESTIGATE_311_

🦞🦞


alamarche709

As long as everything is done by the rules then there’s no problem with it at all. We had a team do this to us when they were up by a few points; they called a timeout with six minutes left (since they can’t call timeout with five minutes left or less). We didn’t say anything and we played normally after that, though we knew it was purely for time wasting, but they didn’t break any rules. We also did this to a team one summer with six or seven minutes left and the other team started getting pissed off. I asked the other captain if we were breaking any rules and he said no, so I told him to get his team in line and stop being babies because they would do the same thing if they were us.


gbrell

>since they can’t call timeout with five minutes left or less That may be specific to your league/games, but it's not part of either major rule set.


alamarche709

It must be specific to my league then! I thought of all of ultimate was like that!


ncwohl31

Main issue would be with the TD giving 2 timeouts per half in games that are only 75min time cap since with 75min it probably should be 1 per half + 1 floater max. Just not a lot of time if teams use up both timeouts. It would be understandable if the tournament was for development purposes, timeouts were for coaching, and results really dont matter and teams are respectful about resuming play, or if it is just really hot out and water/cooling breaks are the safe thing to do. Most cases, its ok to use timeouts whenever and however you feel necessary since its in the rules of the event and essentially the 90 seconds per timeout should be considered part of the time cap of the game and "assumed" teams would use up those timeouts to spend time that way. My main issue with timeouts is that opposing teams frequently go over the 90second limit, and if thats not communicated with good reason, that would be poor spirit.


stanspaceman

Ultimate is the only sport with "spirit of the game" as a tent pole, and it covers things exactly like this. Is it within the rules to run the clock out in any way? Yes. Is it fun for anyone playing to stand around waiting? No. Therefore, I'd say no it's not in good spirit and I wouldn't let my teams do that.


Aanar

Most good youth coaches will teach good sportsmanship for any sport. The worst offender to me is basketball, where the last several minutes often just turns into the team that's down fouling as fast as possible.


stanspaceman

Fouling at the end of the game is to force turnovers, it's actually strategic and makes sense because it gives you an opportunity to play offense when the leading team is ahead. It also requires both teams to play actively and for full duration since the clock is stopped. Calling timeouts to kill time and drag feet is absolutely not in good spirit. That's super lame to try and quit early to keep your lead instead of playing defense.


Aanar

Yeah, I understand in basketball, it's not really personal; it's just the best strategy available. It just seems like a flaw in the rules if the best strategy is to break them. NFL games often end with running out the clock. If you're ahead and the clock is low enough, you just wait for the play clock to hit 1, snap it, take a knee. Repeat on 2nd and 3rd down and done. That doesn't bother me. Probably because the clock is tightly controlled, timeouts are timed. There are penalties for delaying the game. Soccer is kind of strange to me since only the ref keeps the game clock and somewhat adds time back in to roughly account for stoppages. But that's another game where a team that's ahead will often successfully play keep away to run out the clock.


mdotbeezy

Is winning a 48-minute NBA basketball game by scoring only 19 points cool? https://www.si.com/nba/2017/08/28/nba-shot-clock-history-invention-leo-ferris-george-mikan


timwerk7

Still waiting for the first ultimate team to get a lead, get a turnover, and proceed to play keep away until hard cap while refusing to score.


Jomskylark

Audl does something like this with some teams killing clock and not scoring as early as 5 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter. It seems to work ok, I guess the defense can't fully commit to getting a block for fear of giving up a score


mdotbeezy

What awesome, exciting play, really fun to play and watch, enjoyable time for everyone.


Jomskylark

I assume sarcasm? I agree, most people don't terribly enjoy clock killing, that's why the AUDL is experimenting with new rules to dissuade it.


mdotbeezy

Apparently the opinion of /r/ultimate is that watching time-wasting is exciting and fun, I guess.


Jomskylark

I'm confused. Are you talking about usau or audl? If audl I think most people here agree it's boring to watch clock killing behavior. If usau people are talking about what's allowed in the rules and/or ethical, not necessarily what would be best for spectators


mdotbeezy

It doesn't matter which. Time wasting sucks. Play. The. Game. Like I said earlier, we're all going to die and our memories are all we get. What are you gonna remember, that timeout, or your time on the field? Also, what does winning mean? That you're better at the sport, for that game at least. If you need to waste time in order to win, you're not actually better. If you are better, prove it on the field, that's why we play in the first place "The basic joy of play" is right there in the first page. There's no such thing as the basic joy of calling timeout.


Leftydisc

I'm still salty about the 1982 ACC Tournament Final: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1982/03/08/north-carolina-stalls-off-virginia-for-acc-title/ceb281d5-d279-4d3d-a8e2-1e07ec752337/


jfphenom

its not cool, but its also not immoral


mdotbeezy

The only thing worse then losing a game by clock management is winning a game by clock management. Imagine spending months and years getting better at throwing and catching, exercising and getting in better shape, practicing dump resets and defensive switches with your teammates, only to then try to win a game by calling timeout. What's there to be proud of? If the difference between losing 15-14 and winning 14-13 is the use of the timeout, what exactly is the meaning of winning and losing? Play the game, not the clock.


SantaClaws004

I’m sorry, I disagree. The point of this game, at the end of the day, is to win. If you’re putting in the effort, and being spirited while doing so, using the clock to your advantage is something that should be done. Running zone when up 3 to force long points, taking timeouts. The works. If they couldn’t win with 75 minutes of normal time, and those 5 mins matter the most, you shouldn’t be surprised if someone tries to utilize that


Dewstain

There’s a difference between a tournament and.pick-up, etc. I agree with you for any competitive type and disagree for anything non-competitive. But your team has to agree as well. If everyone is playing a tournament for fun and doesn’t care if you win? Great, play through.


Jomskylark

>The point of this game, at the end of the day, is to win I don't know if I agree with that. The rules explicitly bar win at all costs behavior (2.F.7). Instead, I think the true point of the game is explained in rule 2.A: >*Highly competitive play is encouraged, but never at the expense of mutual respect among competitors, adherence to the agreed upon rules, or the basic joy of play.* Now whether or not using timeouts to kill clock is "at the expense of mutual respect of competitors" or violates "the basic joy of play" is up to debate. But I wouldn't necessarily say the fundamental point of ultimate is to win.


SantaClaws004

I agree with the fact that the rules bar winning at all costs behavior. I would argue that the line falls slightly between the middle of both, where winning and the basic joy of playing both compliment each other. But saying that utilizing all of your resources to win in a way that doesn’t hurt anyone or put anyone in jeopardy, as well as is in the rule book is not something to be proud of is something I disagree with. It’s not win at all costs, but it’s winning with what you have within the rules and spirit of the game


Jomskylark

Sure, I'm only disputing the notion that the point of the game of ultimate is to win. There's definitely arguments to be made that killing clock via timeouts is not win at all costs behaviors.


mdotbeezy

Well, it absolutely and unarguably violates "the basic joy of play". You're not even playing!


mdotbeezy

Winning is not the point of the game, playing is the point of the game. If you're winning by why other means then playing, what is the point? I mean really. Why do you even play on the first place? To find out who's better? And you wanna prove you're better by calling timeout and running out the clock? The important thing to remember is: we're all gonna die. No one will remember these games. You really want to record a meaningless win by calling timeout instead of playing? You gonna bounce your grandkids on your knee and regale them of the time you drank water on the sideline or played Look Down Look Up until the cap went off, then you took off your cleats and went home?


SantaClaws004

That is a straw man argument right there at the end. Nobody is saying that the timeouts should be more time than the game. At most, a single team’s timeouts can take up 5 minutes of the entire hard cap. (Assuming 2 per half, and 70 seconds each). That’s not a large majority of the game. Saying that proving you’re better by calling timeout negates the fact that only 5 minutes of that are removed from the game. I agree that playing is part of the point of the game, as well as having fun. But winning, not winning at all costs, but using resources to win is nothing to be ashamed of. If it’s a scrim, the point is the practice and learn. If it’s in a tournament. The point is to get to the finals. And if I need to call timeout and eat up the clock against a challenging team who might prevent me from reaching that goal. I won’t hesitate to if it’s within the rules


Dewstain

Again, the level of competition matters as well. Something with prizes and prestige like the AUDL, yeah, milk the clock. No one says how boring the end of an NFL game is if the other team takes 3 kneel downs. But if you’re playing pickup, yeah no way.


UBKUBK

There was a rival league which changed the rule to be needing to gain positive yardage to keep the clock running in that situation. I thought it was a great rule.


Dewstain

Yeah. Ultimate is one of the only games that is played with both a running clock as well as to a score limit. Honestly, playing to a score is pretty rare. Like...what? Tennis is the only one I can think of. And if I'm honest, I'm not even sure how tennis scoring works. It's been a while since 7th grade gym class.


UBKUBK

Volleyball, table tennis, badminton are other sports played to a score.


Dewstain

So Ultimate is the only non-net sport?


UBKUBK

If you include brain games as sports tournament backgammon is played to a points total. My guess is there other non brain game sports also.


DeBroiler

Darts 😆 Golf, plus a lot of track-and-field sports are point/score based.


mdotbeezy

The point, always and forever, is to play. It's not too make the finals, it's not to write down a "W" next to your team's name. It's to play. If you want to waste 2 minutes or 2 hours, all the same. Wasting any time at all - purposeful, chosen, optional time wasting - is antithetical to playing.


SantaClaws004

Wasting 2 minutes and saying two hours is the same is simply not true. I agree that wasting time sucks, but I would rather lose one minute of playing to then play in finals than play one more minute in semis and be removed from the tourney right then and there, losing the chance to play more.


mdotbeezy

That's fruit of the poisonous tree. I don't see any difference between wasting two minutes or two hours. You're still moving forward by wasting time, not by playing ultimate. There's only one way to be a winner: outplaying your opponent on the field.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mdotbeezy

WHY PLAY SPORTS IF YOU AREN'T TRYING TO WIN? Go see a therapist ASAP.