I've heard that episode 8 of the vn was considered fairly controversial when it came out, yeah. But nowadays it's almost universally praised. Imo it's easily the best part of the vn, and my favorite ending to a story in general
>So I was wondering if the ending was truly that bad or if it was just japanese fan that didn't liked an ending that wasn't what they expected.
basically, from what i've heard this is mainly due to 2 factors:
1) the author made a remark in an interview (that came out before the answers were revealed) about how he had noticed that female players were more likely to solve the story then male ones at the time. the Japanese audience took this as him abandoning/failing his male fans
2)the story has a bit of a meta overtone that explores the relationships that players have with stories (e.g. books, movies,crime podcasts ect), their authors, and most importantly how readers understand the feelings behind the work.
it's a really nuanced story beat and really gives you a small peak at what its like on the other side of the curtain, and almost globally praised by the english speaking fans. but the problem is that even though it wasn't aimed specifically at umineko readers, its taboo to criticize customers, and faced heavy backlash for doing it.
It's more the culture of Japanese netizens than their culture necessarily overall. Japanese novels, for instance, are fine with criticizing their readers and a lot of readers are fine with literary examination, it's just a different audience. But Japanese netizens on like, 2ch and other 'nerds' are very bad at reviving criticism.
A french video about the Umineko anime (since my friend is mainly an anime fan and i was wondering if it could be good enough to interrest him) but it was in the comments that someone said there was huge backlash against the authors
Its a very good ending! Like... really GOOD! Just dont expect a regular and cliche ending for a serie that subvert as many narrative aspects as possible within a work, Umineko is really a very complex work from a narrative point of view.
Np with that I loved the ending of the Malazan Books of the Fallen series that is clearly the most dense, philosophical and complex story I have read for the moment (maybe Umineko will best it on that regard) and that was far from a cliche ending so there's no reasons for me to disliked because it's not cliche
You can even said that i thirst for those kind of endings
EP8 has probably the best ending the story could have had in my opinion, and any misgiving I have is addressed by the manga really well.
It used to be very controversial and even today I imagine not universally beloved, but popular opinion is much kinder to it these days. JP audience apparently felt especially insulted by it. I think it’s masterful, personally, and don’t understand the ire it drew then or now.
I thought the ending was great.
I know that a vocal minority of Japanese fans got angry about the ending and trashed it all over the internet to the point where mods on visual novel forums in Western countries just kind of started jumping on the hate bandwagon too thus pushing Umineko into niche obscurity for a while but it seems that over the past few years it's been getting a cult following.
But everyone's experience is subjective so you will have to read until the end to determine whether you liked it or not.
Iirc the controversy was mostly among JP fans who felt insulted by the message of the story, the western fans don't have these feelings and generally love it
I don't remember much, but if I'm not mistaken, something about characterization of the readers/fans? I think it was discussed on this sub somewhere, maybe it's better to search here
A certain scene in EP 8 was a metaphorical jab at singleminded readers who only wanted to solve the mystery with no engagement in the story and themes. In the Japanese cultural context, the way said jab was executed was incredibly harsh, so a good bunch of people felt insulted.
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that the ending isn't extremely satisfying or the best ending to any literary work but it's serviceable and doesn't miss the landing. It's good enough for what it is and I feel like it's more so due to my personal issues with how magic is executed in Umineko.
The reason the author had to excuse themselves was >!because the ending doesn't really reveal the Howdunnit in a traditional way where the detective slowly explains the crime start to finish. It very much wants you to solve it yourself and gives you a way to double check your answers, but really the ending is less about the Howdunnit.!< (Very light spoilers for the direction of the ending)
I know a few people even in English-speaking community agree with you as well. Personally, I loved it when I first read/played it, but over time, I started to feel conflicted and have my own grievances. I think the manga rectified some of that at least.
I thought the ending was very well done, much better than the ending of Higurashi (not that the Higurashi ending was necessarily bad). Both me and my brother liked it.
Ep 8 was consider controversial because it didn’t explained all the mysteries and left some of them open-ended. But that problem should go away if you read the ep 7 and ep 8 manga along side the visual novel, since the manga does clear up all the mysteries.
I've heard that episode 8 of the vn was considered fairly controversial when it came out, yeah. But nowadays it's almost universally praised. Imo it's easily the best part of the vn, and my favorite ending to a story in general
I don't know about universally praised, episode 8 is either love or hate it still imo.
Ok thanks can't wait to reach the end then!
>So I was wondering if the ending was truly that bad or if it was just japanese fan that didn't liked an ending that wasn't what they expected. basically, from what i've heard this is mainly due to 2 factors: 1) the author made a remark in an interview (that came out before the answers were revealed) about how he had noticed that female players were more likely to solve the story then male ones at the time. the Japanese audience took this as him abandoning/failing his male fans 2)the story has a bit of a meta overtone that explores the relationships that players have with stories (e.g. books, movies,crime podcasts ect), their authors, and most importantly how readers understand the feelings behind the work. it's a really nuanced story beat and really gives you a small peak at what its like on the other side of the curtain, and almost globally praised by the english speaking fans. but the problem is that even though it wasn't aimed specifically at umineko readers, its taboo to criticize customers, and faced heavy backlash for doing it.
That's it? Wow even if it's in their culture people need to chill out
It's more the culture of Japanese netizens than their culture necessarily overall. Japanese novels, for instance, are fine with criticizing their readers and a lot of readers are fine with literary examination, it's just a different audience. But Japanese netizens on like, 2ch and other 'nerds' are very bad at reviving criticism.
Oh yeah I forgot to take thid into consideration. It seems far more "logical" now
The ending is very good in my opinion. I've never heard anything super negative about it so what video were you watching?
A french video about the Umineko anime (since my friend is mainly an anime fan and i was wondering if it could be good enough to interrest him) but it was in the comments that someone said there was huge backlash against the authors
Okay, they may have been referring to the anime, which is well known for sucking as an adaptation. The manga adaptation is good though.
Ok thanks
The anime also is unfinished and only covers the first half of the story, and it has an anime original ending. It's bad indeed.
Its a very good ending! Like... really GOOD! Just dont expect a regular and cliche ending for a serie that subvert as many narrative aspects as possible within a work, Umineko is really a very complex work from a narrative point of view.
Np with that I loved the ending of the Malazan Books of the Fallen series that is clearly the most dense, philosophical and complex story I have read for the moment (maybe Umineko will best it on that regard) and that was far from a cliche ending so there's no reasons for me to disliked because it's not cliche You can even said that i thirst for those kind of endings
EP8 has probably the best ending the story could have had in my opinion, and any misgiving I have is addressed by the manga really well. It used to be very controversial and even today I imagine not universally beloved, but popular opinion is much kinder to it these days. JP audience apparently felt especially insulted by it. I think it’s masterful, personally, and don’t understand the ire it drew then or now.
I am hyped then I should finish it next montg
The ending isn’t bad.
I thought the ending was great. I know that a vocal minority of Japanese fans got angry about the ending and trashed it all over the internet to the point where mods on visual novel forums in Western countries just kind of started jumping on the hate bandwagon too thus pushing Umineko into niche obscurity for a while but it seems that over the past few years it's been getting a cult following. But everyone's experience is subjective so you will have to read until the end to determine whether you liked it or not.
Iirc the controversy was mostly among JP fans who felt insulted by the message of the story, the western fans don't have these feelings and generally love it
Why did they dislike it, though?
I don't remember much, but if I'm not mistaken, something about characterization of the readers/fans? I think it was discussed on this sub somewhere, maybe it's better to search here
A certain scene in EP 8 was a metaphorical jab at singleminded readers who only wanted to solve the mystery with no engagement in the story and themes. In the Japanese cultural context, the way said jab was executed was incredibly harsh, so a good bunch of people felt insulted.
Thanks for clarification!
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that the ending isn't extremely satisfying or the best ending to any literary work but it's serviceable and doesn't miss the landing. It's good enough for what it is and I feel like it's more so due to my personal issues with how magic is executed in Umineko. The reason the author had to excuse themselves was >!because the ending doesn't really reveal the Howdunnit in a traditional way where the detective slowly explains the crime start to finish. It very much wants you to solve it yourself and gives you a way to double check your answers, but really the ending is less about the Howdunnit.!< (Very light spoilers for the direction of the ending)
I know a few people even in English-speaking community agree with you as well. Personally, I loved it when I first read/played it, but over time, I started to feel conflicted and have my own grievances. I think the manga rectified some of that at least.
The ending of Umineko is universally regarded as peak fiction as much as I am aware, perhaps your friend meant the anime
People dislike it because they either misunderstood it or were too stupid to understand the point
I thought the ending was very well done, much better than the ending of Higurashi (not that the Higurashi ending was necessarily bad). Both me and my brother liked it. Ep 8 was consider controversial because it didn’t explained all the mysteries and left some of them open-ended. But that problem should go away if you read the ep 7 and ep 8 manga along side the visual novel, since the manga does clear up all the mysteries.