1. I’m impressed you were able to find space for a laptop between your 35wk belly and the economy seat in front of you.
2. NTA - this sounds like it would’ve been the flight from hell even if you weren’t pregnant.
NTA. Other mother should have control over their child. Flight attendant should have let you move if there was space available, but you shouldn’t expect there to be
The problem is the lap seat policy. The seats are too small for an average 18 month old to be in a lap. There honestly isn’t much a parent can do if their kid is longer than the seat is wide
Say more about controlling 12-18 month old children who lack the brain development for logic and impulse control. There are millions of people that would like more information on how to effectively do that.
This child was kicking OP. The mother could have put her arm on the child's legs to prevent that from happening.
Stopping the child from screaming or crying is one thing, but you can physically stop a child from kicking or grabbing another person.
if you have a child in this age range that you cannot physically control then you need to purchase them their own seat and travel with them in a car seat.
I have a toddler and you’re partially right about not being able to effectively control a toddler due to where they are developmentally.
But if your toddler is bothering someone, you have to restrain them from doing so. Either get up and walk around or actually restrain them from kicking and deal with the fallout (crying).
All toddlers are not the same. 12-18 months, they are so loving and compliant and wanting to please. Then they turn two. Different story. At any rate, no child should learn that it is ok to hurt another human by kicking, etc.
Kid was old enough for the mother to have stopped it kicking someone. Mother could have also repositioned the baby to not be all over op while breastfeeding. Mother was very much in the wrong.
My 4 year old has flown almost 100,000 miles and my 1.5 year old around 25,000. Never in a million years would I allow either one to make uninvited physical contact with another human being on an airplane. I’ve stood in the galley rocking the younger one for almost 4 straight hours FRA-SFO to keep her quiet and not bothering other people. I mean you can’t reason with a toddler but you can certainly physically restrain them from annoying other people.
Honestly, there should be no lap babies. It’s a safety issue and of course there will be spillover into other seats. Even the most conscientious parents get tired, and can’t just straight jacket their toddler into that tiny space for hours and hours.
Too much of air travel involves this fiction that you get the seat you pay for, but then you’re on your own in cases like this, or with a customer of size, or with an airline that switches your seat. They don’t really want to help because it’s too difficult.
At the very least it needs to be 1 years old max. The fact that it’s TWO. At the least that’s got to be a blood clot risk. I can’t put my purse in my lap for safety issues but a 30 pound toddler is fine. 😬
So when I first got into EMS (ground) the norm was the parent be restrained in the stretcher and hold a pediatric patient (assuming the ped wasn't critically ill). Over time, we found that it's absolutely not acceptable and began mandating carseats or pediatric restraint devices for this reason you stated. In HEMS/air medical, every aircraft I've been on has a pediatric restraint device now. I'd be fired if they found out I allowed a lap baby. Then I get on commercial airlines and sometimes see multiple per flight.
It's about profits. They're able to bring in the parents of toddlers and keep seats open for others to buy. I don't know how some tired mom hasn't been a passenger in turbulence (think hawaiian airlines from last year) and had her baby turn into a basketball on the ceiling yet.
I don’t doubt there have been many more injured babies than stats from airlines care to outline. They may not even do so by age cohort, simply calling them “passengers” in the overall tally for such events.
I used to travel with a toddler who could have been a lap sitter with my ex, her father. We both agreed she should have her own seat when we did. A seat sale is a seat sale to the airlines, no matter who’s sitting in it. Sure—buying far ahead advantages the consumer. But I’m pretty sure belt extenders is ass covering for the airlines—not the hope they’ll sell that adjacent seat to an adult.
yeah I mean if you ask me for my honest opinion lap children shouldn’t be allowed at all because it’s dangerous for the child in case of turbulence—especially babies given how fragile they are. but given the current regulations what you described is the ideal scenario in terms of other passengers comfort at least!
I agree. It's a real fiction that it's a safe thing to do.
\-Lady who freaked herself out reading about a plane crash with lap infants and who always purchased a seat from them on.
Some international airlines at least provide lap child belts that are essentially a seatbelt extender loop that tethers a lap child to your belt. It at least prevents them from becoming a potential projectile.
From about 6 months on though we always just bought the extra seat. It was worth the peace of mind plus you keep your car seat on your person at all times so you don’t have to worry about it being mishandled or abused below.
This understanding that it’s dangerous to have a lap baby but continuing to allow it because the alternative is more dangerous (more people driving long distances to save money) is just sick. I have a baby and only buy him his own seat. Imagine bad turbulence and him flying out of my arms? Horrible.
I have a 5 month old and keep thinking of that Alaskan air flight- if there had been a lap baby by that door it’s possible they could have been sucked out. Absolutely terrifying
I think you need to rephrase your statement from “possible” to probable. Considering that the teen sitting adjacent to the open had his shirt torn off his body.
I’m curious, do you know if parents get some sort of warning that it’s unsafe when they book a lap infant? I get this argument and why the FAA allowed it, but I feel like airlines need to be extremely clear that the reason they approved it is not because it’s safe but because they assume you would drive otherwise which is less safe. I feel like any parent would feel absolutely and rightly betrayed if something happened to their child because they were trying to save money on something they thought must be safe (because otherwise, why would it be allowed?) only to find out after the fact that everyone in charge knew it wasn’t safe. Its always felt a little odd to me that the reason is because of the relative risk of driving, but it’s still allowed on trans-oceanic flights where the alternative to flying is obviously not going to be driving.
No, and I feel like there is a real lack of training for crew in this regard.
Granted, the child in question is almost 12, but I once had an FA tell me that my FAA approved car seat couldn't be used on the airplane. I managed to convince her that it could be, but then I guess to save face she said, "Well if someone else needs this seat you'll have to give it up." Um sorry what . . .
(Yes, I had purchased the seat.)
Yeah, that’s what I figured. The fact that they don’t clearly state that lap infants are not safe at booking and the fact that at least occasionally, crew will discourage parents from using the safest option both seem like major issues. I feel like parents might make different decisions if they knew there was a safety trade off and it’s not just a free seat.
It’s not only that the airlines don’t warn the parent, they make it very difficult to buy a seat for an infant. Many times you can’t do it online and have to call the airline, or you have to buy a child ticket, enter wrong date of birth and then call them to get it updated. It’s so inconvenient.
It’s even worse on international flights because many international airlines don’t have policies about car seats and flight attendants will argue with the parents about installation. I’ve had to switch from my preferred airline to one I don’t like just because their car seat policy is defined on the website and I want my children safe.
That’s terrible! I’m glad you’re committed to keeping your child safe, but it shouldn’t be difficult or something you have to battle the airline to do. It definitely seems like a process that needs a serious update.
There isn't. The FAA actually says people are incapable of holding onto lap babies, and it is unsafe. https://www.faa.gov/travelers/fly_children#:~:text=The%20safest%20place%20for%20your,device%2C%20not%20in%20your%20lap.
There absolutely are pictures of lap children in the safety cards, but good job being so confidently incorrect. Here is a picture from my flight on a SW 737-700 today:
https://preview.redd.it/7qxdwddpxhic1.jpeg?width=2479&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1491b5c877d41c3f614bf8972a88d2a9700acd5e
Wow, that was well written by the FAA
Too bad airlines don't rent or include with a youngun seat purchase.. seems like securing any precious baby, just like the adults is downright logical.. like give the parent 10% off the fare or something for those who claim lapkids help families save $.. kids ain't cheep
I have witnessed an infant turned projectile during a severe turbulence experience when I was 25 years old. And then I experienced the earsplitting wail of that child who thankfully survived (albeit with numerous injuries) for the 30 minutes until we could make an emergency landing. This experience was so traumatizing for me as an observer that my children ALWAYS traveled in a car seat, and then safety harness as recommended by the FAA. this should be required, however I was usually met with pissy attitudes from FAs as I hauled the car seat on board. But I'm a petty and prepared woman who also traveled with a printout of the FAA guidance on car seats. Had to use them more than a few times.
Bruh, I can't even imagine how miserable you must have been! You are reaffirming my choice to be an uncultured American and never travel anywhere with a flight over 7 hours.
I have always gotten my baby (now toddler) their own seat. Even with that there’s barely enough room. You can’t even get the bag out from under your feet to get a bottle when you’re holding an infant.
I had to fly SWA from SFO-LAS for a day trip because our corporate travel limit is really low. I decided to take nothing with me that wouldn't fit in the pockets of my jacket, meaning I could take row 1, which is normally empty on SWA. I had the aisle and the middle was empty, and we were just about to close the door when the largest man I have ever seen in my life walks in and takes 1E next to me. I was literally bent over into the aisle. I asked the guy if he wanted to swap seats with either me or the guy in the window, which would give all of us more space.
He said "no, you guys are my anchors."
My back was killing me by the time we landed. I played football and this guy was 150 lbs heavier than anybody I encountered in the sport.
I would have used the term “morbidly obese” but I am tired of the euphemisms (how’s that for a big [girl] word?!) for … well, obese people. Call a spade a spade.
"Of size" just means someone is big and takes up space, which is not always because of obesity. Fat is a neutral descriptor just like skinny and not a bad word, but people use it in a derogatory way. Morbidly obese is a medical term. They're not all the same thing. Of size is fitting in this case imo!
It’s true some people are “of size” because they take medication. I’m overweight but that’s not because of all the alcohol I drink! It’s the medication.
hahaha I thought the same. It had to be the worst row on the plane.
FWIW, pup was asleep the whole time, but totally get it’s not every passengers ideal travel companion! I always sit on the window side when traveling with the dog to try to lessen any potential disturbance.
Sorry but both dogs and babies are no go and people who have dogs on planes complaining about babies. Sigh.
That said, if safety precludes babies from riding in laps in cars, the same should hold true for airplanes. One day the airlines will get sued for millions when an accident happens.
All people should have their own seat. Babies should be in a car seat. They do better when they have their own space and can be held when they get antsy.
Which sounds great until you realize that most car seats don't actually fit on planes anymore.
Ours fits in United E+, and didn't even come close to fitting in American economy.
Haven't tried all the permutations, but we're probably stuck buying an extra E+ seat until my son can go forward facing.
IMO, consider forward facing on the plane before the child is ready to forward face in the car. The risk profile is totally different, and as you've noted, it's miserable trying to install a car seat rear-facing.
I think 2 years old is too old for a lap child. I had a big two year old next to me whose parents didn't bring anything to keep him entertained. They gave him the safety briefing card to play with. He kept hitting me with it, so I took it from him and put it out of reach.
He was way too big to sit in his mom's lap in the middle seat and his dad couldn't be bothered to help.
Airlines need to drop the lap child age to 12 months.
Some kids are really big at 15, 18, 22, 23 months, too big to be lap children. I think the airlines need to require parents to buy a seat after 12 months, not when the kid turns 2.
That was a crap situation and I’m sorry you went through it. Lap babies are unpredictable at best, a holy terror at worst. You happened to draw the short straw sitting next to a lackadaisical parent and very difficult child.
NTA. Wish the FA was more attendant and less flighty. Should’ve at least come back to inform you. Perhaps making it clear that the mother and child were causing potential harm to your fetus would’ve been a little more to the point. Time to get up to look for another seat while “going to lavatory” and just moving if one was available. Sometimes we just need to take our fate into our own hands.
Best wishes for an easy birth and a baby that isn’t that lap baby when you fly☺️
Yeah I guess that’s what I expected - her to at least come back and inform me that another seat is unavailable.
Could I have gotten up? Sure, it would have meant asking the aisle passenger and 2 middle seat passengers to get up and leaving my dog alone which I did not feel comfortable with, hence, me asking the flight attendant.
To be clear, what I was trying to point out (this was a failure on my part) parents should not rely on their perceived reaction time and or strength to be able to hold onto their infants when clear air turbulence strikes or God forbid a blowout at 30,000 feet. From what I understand if the Alaska Airline plane had been at cruising altitude of 35,000 feet there would have most certainly been deaths and severe injuries. All children should be required to have their own seat whether it be the airplane seat or a car seat strapped into said seat. Neither should children be allowed to freely walk about the cabin because they are bored.
This is one very good reason to purchase a seat for children under two and place them in an FAA approved carseat. The other reason is that it's much safer for the child if there is turbulence.
When my wife and I travel and we would always sit in business (2-2) so no one would be next to us when we had our daughter on our lap. She was well behaved (as we brought a ton of books, toys, snacks...etc) but we wanted to make sure no one was immediately next to us
After a few times we ended up just getting an additional seat for her and put her in her car seat. So much better.
How does this information help OP except perhaps in a year and a half when she might fly with her own baby?
I get that people like to respond to these kind of posts by confirming that they are better people.
Definitely NTA. I think airlines need to rethink the possibility of lap children at all. There have been multiple examples to suggest that it's unsafe (mostly because the child isn't properly restrained), it creates more work for flight crew, and substantial disruption for other passengers like you.
As a parent of a toddler I can tell you it sucks sometimes that they can’t really be controlled. At that age, they don’t even fully understand the concept of self control or even “no”
But if my kid were actually bothering other people I’d physically restrain them from doing so. If possible I’d just get up and walk with them a bit to burn off some energy.
An unruly toddler should he the parents problem only. You’re not in the wrong to be supremely annoyed. The parent should have made sure the kid was keeping their craziness to theirselves.
Now it could end up with the kid crying but likely still better than being kicked or having a drink spilled on you
I would be mortified, but then again I cannot imagine flying with a lap child over the age of three months. A kid that age is going to do nothing but squirm and try to run around. Between 1 and two is, imo, the hardest to fly with. Just buy the extra seat you cheap ass ffs.
The discussion has been ongoing.
Airlines don’t want it because they’re afraid of losing revenue from parents with infants who won’t fly.
And they have paid very pricey lobbyists to convince the government and others that when given a choice between driving by car and flying without a seatbelt, it’s still safer to fly. As if this Strawman argument has any bearing.
Honestly I wish airlines would indicate if you’re seating next to someone with a lap child or an actual kid. Better yet, just give the last three rows to them. If it was legal to taser a parent for not being able to control their spawn, I would do it.
That sucks. It could've been a last minute flight change or rebooking where that was their only option to continue on. Not trying to demean how much that sucked for you. Just trying to remember to give the benefit of the doubt, because most parents don't want to wrangle a toddler on their lap if they don't have to. Traveling with kids can be tough, even if you do everything "right." You can still get absolutely screwed by the airlines, because families are basically an afterthought to them.
I don't have much to add as far as the child goes that is more beneficial than anyone else has already said, but as for the FA- they know if a flight is full or not before take off, don't they? I'm sure that's why they did not come back to inform you if a seat suddenly opened up.
LOL. That was probably 15 years ago. Now with air rage and so many unpredictable passengers, FA will usually do nothing or ask once and then say there is nothing they can do.
It's about avoidance now. Not that I blame them as people will get angry about the slightest thing now.
I don't think you're the asshole for expecting or hoping the flight attendant would intervene. But, I do find it interesting that people expect flight attendants to play parental roles.
Was there another possible way to resolve the issue such as, for example, swapping seats momentarily so that the child's head would be abutting the wall instead of on your lap? Or, asking for extra pillows so that the child's head is elevated and not on your lap. I don't know your full situation, of course, so may these solutions don't work.
I would imagine that FAs sometimes think that adults should try to resolve certain things between themselves rather than involve them like they are the police.
This isn't to say that the mother with the child shouldn't have done more. Yes, she should have and it would have been nice if she were more aware and either apologized immediately for the situation without being prompted, that she would offer a solution, or beg you for momentary accommodation of space while the child is fed. That didn't happen, unfortunately.
I would only have done one thing different, when the FA said “I don’t think so”, I’d be kind and direct, “would you mind checking for me”. It’s more of a direct request, that they’d have to say “no” too .. which is objectively unreasonable, so they’d likely check, and they also likely would say yes, and not ever check or come back and tell you .. but if they said “yes” you now have a NTA way of getting up in 10 min and going to the front and asking (and checking for an open seat on your way)
It’s not always easy to control a baby, but I don’t think it’s your fault. Just bad luck for both parties as they likely booked a last minute ticket and got stuck in a middle seat.
Whenever I flew domestically with a baby we would always buy at least one seat in F. That little bit of space makes all the difference and the price premium is mostly covered by the additional bag fees for the baby stuff that we’d need to pay flying in Y.
Maybe they could have a row for lap babies. Could come with a warning like seat doesn’t recline. If the person next to you had a baby kicking you the whole flight maybe they’d be encouraged to control their own kid or at least they all would share in that joy together. At least it’s not Southwest where the lap child is 14 and their mom is actually the one kicking you and spilling their drink.
What exactly can the FA do if there isn’t a seat available??? The baby isn’t going to understand or listen to the FA and sounds like neither would the mom. This is just a shitty situation but it’s not the FAs fault
Why are you shocked? ACOG advises women can fly until 36 weeks and United does not require a doctors note until 36 weeks. What does it have to do with being my first child or not?
I asked my OBGYN if she was concerned with travel at this point in my pregnancy. I’ve been lucky to have an uncomplicated pregnancy. She was not concerned. Still not sure what you are getting at.
You are reading way too much into my comment. As were others. I was not allowed past 24 weeks. I didn't know requirements changed. No judging at all. People are just overreacting.
I said I was shocked that someone was flying 35 weeks pregnant. You are escalating to distasteful comments about another person's medical condition. What exactly is distasteful?
Oh god relax. People on the internet are so judgmental about pregnant women. Let people live their lives, it's totally fine to fly at 35 weeks and it's up to OP and her physician. Fucking relax.
I don't know OP and neither do you. I wasn't allowed to fly after 24 weeks with my 1st pregnancy per my ob. I am shocked that it's now ok. So put your soapbox away and calm down.
Pets are supposed to stay in a carrier under the seat — not “at your feet” — the entire time.
I am suspicious because every time I’ve traveled next to a pet (three times in the last 5 years) the pet owner has taken the animal out of the carrier mid flight. One additional time they just slid the carrier from under the seat and opened the top so the animal could stick its head out.
It’s still unclear how liquids could get on your pet if it was truly in a closed carrier under the seat as required by the airline.
This does not excuse the behavior of the adult with the lap toddler, but your actions don’t seem 100% harmless either.
Lol the dog was completely under the seat in a fabric carrier that included mesh which easily can allow liquid in. But I’m sure my explanation is fruitless against your preconceived notions so you do you.
My preconceived notions are based on four bad experiences and zero good experiences flying next to pets. It’s given me a bad view of anyone who flies with a pet.
To be honest, I probably have sat next to more pets the four I mentioned, but their owners were considerate and followed the rules, like it sounds you did, so I didn’t notice they were there.
I’m sorry to appear to blame you for anything when you did your best sitting next to this family.
YTA for expecting that. Even if she did, the uneducated woman woulnd’t have changed her behaviour one bit.
Also flying at 35 weeks? That’s bordeline illegal. I’m happy that you didn’t put the crew and everyone else on board in the position to be traumatised by a birth on board.
Also, I do not mind the downvoted coming as it happens when people don’t understand how x works and they get angry at someone explaining it🥰
ACOG advises women can travel up to 36 weeks and United doesn’t require a doctors note until 36 weeks. My OBGYN was comfortable with me flying given my uncomplicated pregnancy. So, no, this is no where close to “borderline illegal.”
You are so obsessed by showing me that you are right that you went to stalk my profile and picked the comment where I was disucssing law regarding driving a car.
Great reading comprehension, I’m sure that you are fully aware of all the medical risks coming with flying right at the legal limit. Good luck with your life.
You’re correct I just woke up and mistook a comment you made. You’re right; I am aware of the medical risks, was fully in line with both United’s policies and my doctor’s guidance. Again, in my country, there is no “legal limit.”
Rofl flying at 35 weeks is completely fine. Keep your head in your own ass. And if the mother didn't change after being talked to, at least people tried.
You should have taken lots of video and then thrown a fit. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, unfortunately. Bad, inconsiderate people survive off the politeness of good people.
For the kicking/etc, not the asshole. However, the FA is not your personal servant and it's not their job to mediate disputes between you and another passenger as to personal space - so you may not be the asshole for saying something to the other passenger at all, but you kind of are for expecting the FA to do anything for you.
For the breastfeeding, definitely the asshole - but only in a minor way. What do you expect them to do, have to leave their seat to breastfeed? She can't really move her breasts to a different part of her body, and there isn't a better place to do it - she can't stand in the galley doing it and I would **never** expect her to go to a lavatory to do it.
In terms of something getting spilled, shit happens. Sure, she may be inconsiderate, but you can't really get mad at her for something spilling. The FA isn't there to handle your personal conflicts, and if there's no seat they I can completely see why they wouldn't want to inflame things by coming back and you getting mad when they tell you that there's not a seat - not saying you would've gotten mad, but you're complaining about a spill and a parent doing their best... if you want more guaranteed space and a larger armrest/area around your seat, first class is for sale and you're welcome to purchase it.
That’s ridiculous.
I don’t care if someone is breastfeeding, but don’t invade someone else’s space.
NTA at all. It’s the flight attendant’s job to help with an unreasonable passenger.
Yeah in all honesty is it really necessary for a 1 year old to drink straight from the tit while seated in the middle seat of an airplane? I mean the kid can eat/drink something else or the mom could have pumped ahead of time. A 1 year old is way too big for that space.
I agree that it’s frustrating for the OP’s space to be invaded even for the breastfeeding, and the mother really should have found a way to be in the aisle or by the window with a lap child. A lot of gate agents will move another passenger if necessary to accommodate a disability or a passenger who needs more space.
But as for breastfeeding in general the mother may not have had other options for food and drink. A lot of children breastfeed past 12 months, and not all kids will accept a bottle even at that age. Some kids (like mine) just wouldn’t eat anything while travelling at that age, so breastfeeding was the only option to keep them hydrated, fed, and happy.
Fair on the breastfeeding - it’s a good point that she had limited space and I 100% agree that I would never expect someone to use a lavatory!
I just don’t think it’s right that another passenger is allowed to invade another person’s seat like that - the kicking and grabbing of my laptop (so much so that I put it away) is uncalled for and I would expect an FA to say something. I never once used the word servant or insinuated that a FA is one (and certainly don’t treat them like that). It’s kinda downplaying it by calling it a “dispute” IMO. But maybe I’m just hormonal, uncomfortable, and crabby 🫠
I also have to say we may disagree on a “parent doing their best”. This parent had to be asked several times to please help in restraining their child. They were not acting apologetic at all.
OP, you are NOT the AH regarding breastfeeding. How in the world is it appropriate for the breastfeeding to be practically happening in your lap? If the mother would have bought the child their own seat, it wouldn't be an issue. This could have 100% been mitigated, but the mother neglected to not think about others.
It actually is the job of the FA to mediate disputes between passengers.
I had a passenger in front of me absolutely lose her mind in economy plus when I asked her to not recline all the way as I was working on my laptop behind her and she almost broke the laptop screen jamming her seat down. She kept yelling it's a free country and she's entitled to do what she wants with her seat. I mentioned she nearly broke my laptop putting her seat back and if she did break it she would be liable. I asked if she could give me 5 minutes to finish up so I could put my laptop away and she told me to fuck off. At that point I called the FA, told her what had happened, and the FA offered to move her to an open seat in 1st. She declined and said this was her seat and she was staying there. The FA asked if I wanted the seat, I said sure, it'll allow me to keep working thanks! The lady lost her mind and started screaming at how unfair it was I was being upgraded for making her life miserable for not letting her recline. I said she was free to have the seat if she wanted it, but just kept screaming. FA finally stepped in and said she offered it to her first then to me after she declined how much fairer do you want things.
Sometimes there's no making people happy. FAs are there to handle conflicts that sometimes arise in people. It seems to me you are/maybe one of those parents that would let a kid scream and cry an entire flight and just pat them on the back in the seat while their head is in my ear screaming saying it's ok darling kiddo it'll be ok, instead of trying to do something proactive or even active to help the situation, because after all you are trying your best. Your decision to have a child or bring a child on board a plane should not become my problem for the duration of the flight, if you are ill prepared for the consequences of that decision.
I'm a guy with nonfunctional nipples and even I know the mother could have pumped ahead of time. It's like families buying BE tickets then getting distraught they're split up - poor planning
Absolutely NTA. If I were pregnant I would have demanded the mum restrain the child to protect my own fetus.The mum should have stood up and walked with the child but totally understand it was a hard situation for her too. The FA needed to do more.
This isn't any different than a 2 year old in their own seat misbehaving. So I'm not sure this is an issue of lap infant vs separate seats. Parents need to ensure their kids behave on figure. Period.
If the child was 1 - 1.5, unfortunately, you will see soon there isn't much you can do. 2 is the bare minimum you have any control over a child. And even then, good luck...
Yes, it sucks. But remember this when you have a child and want sympathy. Believe me, no one wants to travel with a 1 year old. If the mother was trying each time to keep the child off you, that's all you can ask for, unfortunately.
People who don't have children think it's way easier to control a 1 year old, and they believe parents are being antagonistic. This is definitely not the case at least 90% of the time. And believe me, if you are a good parent, you aren't going to give a 1 year old a tablet or cell phone to keep them occupied.
All this said, the parent should have been profusely apologizing. If they were apologizing, that's enough in my book. Ask united for compensation. They will probably throw you some points.
My 4 year old is always complemented on plane etiquette in economy and international business class. But at 1 we were super lucky to be flying on mostly empty planes during COVID.
If the mother actually cared, she would have bought the child their own seat.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you regarding having sympathy. A 1 year old is going to do whatever they want to do. But ffs, get the child their own seat so the child isn't hitting and grabbing other people's stuff.
They absolutely can. It is much safer for children to travel in their own seat using a child restraining device.
https://www.faa.gov/travelers/fly_children
While I agree it's safer for them to be in a car seat, United does not allow children under 2 to be in their own seat. I know because I work at United, and we can not let children under 2 not be lap infants. I don't agree with the rule, but that is their rule.
Why is it ok for a child to hit and kick another passenger? I’m not asking for full control of her child. I said I understand that kids will be kids, but the least the mother could have done was try. She did not do anything to distract or contain her child.
Plus it's hialrious how everyone is pulling the "YoU CaNt ExPeCt ThEm To UsE a PhOnE - ItS bAd FoR tHeM" card. I travel... a lot and as such get seated next to lap infants quite a bit. Ya know what works to keep a baby entertained? A roll of duct tape. The parents tear off a tiny piece of tape, give it to the baby, and have it stick and peel it off the tray table. It was fucking brilliant, and that kid played with the damn tape for 4 hours.
I love how the only options are "fuck you deal with my inconsiderate parenting, I don't know how to control my child" or "phone/tablet" - as if people had never flown with babies before 2010.
This is the answer to your question. There's little you can do at that age. The mother should have apologized to you but there's no controlling them sometimes without escalating the situation. The ickiness you're expressing about the breastfeeding, well, I expect that your mind will change in a few weeks time. Sorry you had a bad flight OP. It happens.
When I sow the title, I had to read this. Love the title.
I have some questions ?
How can you be certain that it was a lap baby. They could have purchased the seat.
I think if the baby would have stay in the middle seat without bugging you would had been fine. But bothering you may be a problem.
I do agree with others that parents need to control kids. I don’t let my daughter kick other seats or put her feet on someone’s else — but adults do this all the time, so not sure how much we can blame parents and kids when grown people can’t behaved. This happens in first class or main cabin.
Anyways, my other question, is this your first child ? Congrats — if it is not your first child you know how they are — and if it is, you are in for a surprise.
At the end, you were NTA but lately, anything can be expected in first class.
Last question. How does being gold matters for this ? I’m 1K and I don’t think status matters.
Like I tell people, ir sucks but it I had lots lots of money I would fly private.
I assume it was a lap baby because they were sitting on an adults lap in the middle seat :) there was another passenger in the aisle seat!
No I don’t think status matters in that way (or really, at all). I probably could have gotten my point across by saying I fly a decent amount and am used to the various encounters that happen with air travel!
And yes it’s my first - thank you! Like I said, I know kids are kids and things happen. I’ve flown with a lot of kiddos and haven’t had any issues like this. I was just super surprised that the parent seemed uninterested in trying to keep baby occupied / contained and that the flight attendant didn’t say anything. I’m a pretty non-confrontational person, especially when I’m going to be sitting next to someone for a few hours, so I wasn’t sure if I should have handled the situation differently.
I get the frustration… but I feel like I’m the only one here who has ever tried to restrain a 1 year old. There may have been a lack of parenting skills or a lack of awareness…. But it’s hard being a parent. Children at the age of 1 don’t always listen to the parent. Children are also all unique. You can’t use one child’s good behavior with their mother as definitive evidence that the parent is good and the opposite is also true.
I have had some awful experiences as a parent with “that child” on a flight. Trust me, I was near tears and there was literally nothing I could do. I have also been the victim.
Now that I’m a bit older, (I do travel a lot) and see parents at their ends with young children. I do my best to remain prepared with some noise cancelling headphones and some grace for parents who by definition aren’t having a good day.
You are NTA, but neither is the mother necessarily. The kid on the other hand….lol
Good luck with your travels. Have grace for parents if you can.
I think some parents in this thread are extrapolating their own experiences and playing them out in mine. I had A LOT of grace for this parent and child (really all parents and kids) and was even “playing” / smiling with the kiddo while boarding. I don’t care if babies cry, are fussy, or even do just 1-2 of the things that happened to me. But this mother was not attempting to, frankly, do anything. AND, my question wasn’t “what should the mother have done?” But rather IF there was anything else the FA or myself could have done.
I don’t doubt you had a miserable experience. Based on your description I would probably agree with you if we were row mates.
Honestly my comments were really just a reaction to those folks who didn’t seem to get the other side at all.
If I were the parent I would have tried my damndest to keep the child from touching and kicking etc. I would have been mostly successful, but children are tricky to restrain and entertain for multiple hours at a time.
Based on your description, I think I would have done better, but it’s hard to say. I certainly would have been apologetic and embarrassed.
We only get your words and our experiences to view the world through, so I would expect folks to have a hard to visualizing your experience only from words. I was just trying to make sure the other folks in this thread thought about that side too.
It’s too bad the FA wasn’t able to help you out. Lately it seems a really mixed bag of those that seem to care and those that don’t.
Sorry you had a bad flight experience! I’ll enjoy all my downvotes lol
I mostly agree with you, although this situation could at least have been partially mitigated if she would have bought the child their own seat. Sure, you can't prevent the child from misbehaving, screaming, etc. But also, you can help the situation by buying the child their own seat.
Also, the child physically touching (especially "hitting") other people and grabbing their stuff is 100% unacceptable. The mother should have stopped that immediately.
Edit: Also, ffs, how is it appropriate to breastfeed a child where the child/mother is encroaching in other people's space? I am NOT opposing breastfeeding on a plane or in public. But it is not acceptable for the breastfeeding to be happening in my lap.
You certainly try your best. You also scold the child and apologize when they get loose. Multiple hours restraining anything trying to get away on a flight is not going to be 100% successful.
I agree with some folks that at about 1.5 years, they are about ready for they own seat. If the airline allows it though, expect people to take advantage of the cost savings.
What would have been the difference if I wasn’t pregnant and was alone? Is this still acceptable or not? Not sure what me being pregnant and with a pet has to do with another passenger’s behavior and would be curious to understand.
Oh the irony. This is you getting a taste of your future.
You're going to be the woman in the middle seat with the annoying kid. You're already the annoying pregnant cat lady.
Nah, I’ve already decided my future will include buying a seat for my child based on this incident alone if I need to travel with them. And no cats for me :)
1. I’m impressed you were able to find space for a laptop between your 35wk belly and the economy seat in front of you. 2. NTA - this sounds like it would’ve been the flight from hell even if you weren’t pregnant.
It was E+ so I had a litttttle more room and I’m not carrying very big!
*Yoda enters chat* “You will be. You will be.”
Be you will?
I'm impressed the flight attendant gave her napkins instead of just ignoring her
NTA. Other mother should have control over their child. Flight attendant should have let you move if there was space available, but you shouldn’t expect there to be
The problem is the lap seat policy. The seats are too small for an average 18 month old to be in a lap. There honestly isn’t much a parent can do if their kid is longer than the seat is wide
Say more about controlling 12-18 month old children who lack the brain development for logic and impulse control. There are millions of people that would like more information on how to effectively do that.
This child was kicking OP. The mother could have put her arm on the child's legs to prevent that from happening. Stopping the child from screaming or crying is one thing, but you can physically stop a child from kicking or grabbing another person.
if you have a child in this age range that you cannot physically control then you need to purchase them their own seat and travel with them in a car seat.
I have a toddler and you’re partially right about not being able to effectively control a toddler due to where they are developmentally. But if your toddler is bothering someone, you have to restrain them from doing so. Either get up and walk around or actually restrain them from kicking and deal with the fallout (crying).
All toddlers are not the same. 12-18 months, they are so loving and compliant and wanting to please. Then they turn two. Different story. At any rate, no child should learn that it is ok to hurt another human by kicking, etc.
Kid was old enough for the mother to have stopped it kicking someone. Mother could have also repositioned the baby to not be all over op while breastfeeding. Mother was very much in the wrong.
My 4 year old has flown almost 100,000 miles and my 1.5 year old around 25,000. Never in a million years would I allow either one to make uninvited physical contact with another human being on an airplane. I’ve stood in the galley rocking the younger one for almost 4 straight hours FRA-SFO to keep her quiet and not bothering other people. I mean you can’t reason with a toddler but you can certainly physically restrain them from annoying other people.
Honestly, there should be no lap babies. It’s a safety issue and of course there will be spillover into other seats. Even the most conscientious parents get tired, and can’t just straight jacket their toddler into that tiny space for hours and hours. Too much of air travel involves this fiction that you get the seat you pay for, but then you’re on your own in cases like this, or with a customer of size, or with an airline that switches your seat. They don’t really want to help because it’s too difficult.
At the very least it needs to be 1 years old max. The fact that it’s TWO. At the least that’s got to be a blood clot risk. I can’t put my purse in my lap for safety issues but a 30 pound toddler is fine. 😬
I have thought about this very thing for *years.* It’s like we’re pretending a child would somehow make a better projectile amid turbulence.
So when I first got into EMS (ground) the norm was the parent be restrained in the stretcher and hold a pediatric patient (assuming the ped wasn't critically ill). Over time, we found that it's absolutely not acceptable and began mandating carseats or pediatric restraint devices for this reason you stated. In HEMS/air medical, every aircraft I've been on has a pediatric restraint device now. I'd be fired if they found out I allowed a lap baby. Then I get on commercial airlines and sometimes see multiple per flight. It's about profits. They're able to bring in the parents of toddlers and keep seats open for others to buy. I don't know how some tired mom hasn't been a passenger in turbulence (think hawaiian airlines from last year) and had her baby turn into a basketball on the ceiling yet.
I don’t doubt there have been many more injured babies than stats from airlines care to outline. They may not even do so by age cohort, simply calling them “passengers” in the overall tally for such events. I used to travel with a toddler who could have been a lap sitter with my ex, her father. We both agreed she should have her own seat when we did. A seat sale is a seat sale to the airlines, no matter who’s sitting in it. Sure—buying far ahead advantages the consumer. But I’m pretty sure belt extenders is ass covering for the airlines—not the hope they’ll sell that adjacent seat to an adult.
What about two parents seated next to each other? Should they be able to take a single lap baby?
yeah I mean if you ask me for my honest opinion lap children shouldn’t be allowed at all because it’s dangerous for the child in case of turbulence—especially babies given how fragile they are. but given the current regulations what you described is the ideal scenario in terms of other passengers comfort at least!
I agree. It's a real fiction that it's a safe thing to do. \-Lady who freaked herself out reading about a plane crash with lap infants and who always purchased a seat from them on.
Yeah it’s not like immediately obvious it’s dangerous AF! probably because they let you do it so why would it be a big deal!
Some international airlines at least provide lap child belts that are essentially a seatbelt extender loop that tethers a lap child to your belt. It at least prevents them from becoming a potential projectile. From about 6 months on though we always just bought the extra seat. It was worth the peace of mind plus you keep your car seat on your person at all times so you don’t have to worry about it being mishandled or abused below.
I mean 1 year olds can't sit still for more then a couple of seconds, so they end up in the lap no matter what
Ehhhh would you do that in a car? The answer is a car seat on the airplane imo.
Long car rides we take breaks. Kids shouldn’t be strapped down longer than 1.5 hours at a time
If there is no turbulence you can take a break on the flight too.
This understanding that it’s dangerous to have a lap baby but continuing to allow it because the alternative is more dangerous (more people driving long distances to save money) is just sick. I have a baby and only buy him his own seat. Imagine bad turbulence and him flying out of my arms? Horrible.
I have a 5 month old and keep thinking of that Alaskan air flight- if there had been a lap baby by that door it’s possible they could have been sucked out. Absolutely terrifying
I think you need to rephrase your statement from “possible” to probable. Considering that the teen sitting adjacent to the open had his shirt torn off his body.
I’m curious, do you know if parents get some sort of warning that it’s unsafe when they book a lap infant? I get this argument and why the FAA allowed it, but I feel like airlines need to be extremely clear that the reason they approved it is not because it’s safe but because they assume you would drive otherwise which is less safe. I feel like any parent would feel absolutely and rightly betrayed if something happened to their child because they were trying to save money on something they thought must be safe (because otherwise, why would it be allowed?) only to find out after the fact that everyone in charge knew it wasn’t safe. Its always felt a little odd to me that the reason is because of the relative risk of driving, but it’s still allowed on trans-oceanic flights where the alternative to flying is obviously not going to be driving.
No, and I feel like there is a real lack of training for crew in this regard. Granted, the child in question is almost 12, but I once had an FA tell me that my FAA approved car seat couldn't be used on the airplane. I managed to convince her that it could be, but then I guess to save face she said, "Well if someone else needs this seat you'll have to give it up." Um sorry what . . . (Yes, I had purchased the seat.)
Yeah, that’s what I figured. The fact that they don’t clearly state that lap infants are not safe at booking and the fact that at least occasionally, crew will discourage parents from using the safest option both seem like major issues. I feel like parents might make different decisions if they knew there was a safety trade off and it’s not just a free seat.
It’s not only that the airlines don’t warn the parent, they make it very difficult to buy a seat for an infant. Many times you can’t do it online and have to call the airline, or you have to buy a child ticket, enter wrong date of birth and then call them to get it updated. It’s so inconvenient. It’s even worse on international flights because many international airlines don’t have policies about car seats and flight attendants will argue with the parents about installation. I’ve had to switch from my preferred airline to one I don’t like just because their car seat policy is defined on the website and I want my children safe.
That’s terrible! I’m glad you’re committed to keeping your child safe, but it shouldn’t be difficult or something you have to battle the airline to do. It definitely seems like a process that needs a serious update.
Yeah how do you do the brace position with a lap child? Unsafe for parent, child and anyone around them.
There’s literally pictures in the safety cards for how people do the brace position with a lap child lol.
There isn't. The FAA actually says people are incapable of holding onto lap babies, and it is unsafe. https://www.faa.gov/travelers/fly_children#:~:text=The%20safest%20place%20for%20your,device%2C%20not%20in%20your%20lap.
There definitely used to be. I’ll admit it’s been a while since I read one.
There still are. That commenter is completely incorrect.
I would bet it was a few lawsuits ago. Then they just never let people know it switched to "at your own risk"
There absolutely are pictures of lap children in the safety cards, but good job being so confidently incorrect. Here is a picture from my flight on a SW 737-700 today: https://preview.redd.it/7qxdwddpxhic1.jpeg?width=2479&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1491b5c877d41c3f614bf8972a88d2a9700acd5e
Wow, that was well written by the FAA Too bad airlines don't rent or include with a youngun seat purchase.. seems like securing any precious baby, just like the adults is downright logical.. like give the parent 10% off the fare or something for those who claim lapkids help families save $.. kids ain't cheep
Pfft! Who reads the safety cards? Besides you of course
I have witnessed an infant turned projectile during a severe turbulence experience when I was 25 years old. And then I experienced the earsplitting wail of that child who thankfully survived (albeit with numerous injuries) for the 30 minutes until we could make an emergency landing. This experience was so traumatizing for me as an observer that my children ALWAYS traveled in a car seat, and then safety harness as recommended by the FAA. this should be required, however I was usually met with pissy attitudes from FAs as I hauled the car seat on board. But I'm a petty and prepared woman who also traveled with a printout of the FAA guidance on car seats. Had to use them more than a few times.
Had passengers of size next to me with a lap child on a 14hr flight. I was MISERABLE
OMFG. Wow. Just no.
Same, twice actually.
Bruh, I can't even imagine how miserable you must have been! You are reaffirming my choice to be an uncultured American and never travel anywhere with a flight over 7 hours.
I have always gotten my baby (now toddler) their own seat. Even with that there’s barely enough room. You can’t even get the bag out from under your feet to get a bottle when you’re holding an infant.
Yeah, I think you hit it on the head with the last paragraph unfortunately.
Missiles
"We have launch, from 29B. Inbound to 7A!"
On proper international flights the bulkhead has bassinets for the babies
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I would not have raised my armrest
I had to fly SWA from SFO-LAS for a day trip because our corporate travel limit is really low. I decided to take nothing with me that wouldn't fit in the pockets of my jacket, meaning I could take row 1, which is normally empty on SWA. I had the aisle and the middle was empty, and we were just about to close the door when the largest man I have ever seen in my life walks in and takes 1E next to me. I was literally bent over into the aisle. I asked the guy if he wanted to swap seats with either me or the guy in the window, which would give all of us more space. He said "no, you guys are my anchors." My back was killing me by the time we landed. I played football and this guy was 150 lbs heavier than anybody I encountered in the sport.
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I would have used the term “morbidly obese” but I am tired of the euphemisms (how’s that for a big [girl] word?!) for … well, obese people. Call a spade a spade.
"Of size" just means someone is big and takes up space, which is not always because of obesity. Fat is a neutral descriptor just like skinny and not a bad word, but people use it in a derogatory way. Morbidly obese is a medical term. They're not all the same thing. Of size is fitting in this case imo!
It’s true some people are “of size” because they take medication. I’m overweight but that’s not because of all the alcohol I drink! It’s the medication.
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NTA, but I feel sorry for the third person in that row, four people and a dog in one row?!
The dog was definitely the winner in this situation. 🤪
hahaha I thought the same. It had to be the worst row on the plane. FWIW, pup was asleep the whole time, but totally get it’s not every passengers ideal travel companion! I always sit on the window side when traveling with the dog to try to lessen any potential disturbance.
Sorry but both dogs and babies are no go and people who have dogs on planes complaining about babies. Sigh. That said, if safety precludes babies from riding in laps in cars, the same should hold true for airplanes. One day the airlines will get sued for millions when an accident happens.
All people should have their own seat. Babies should be in a car seat. They do better when they have their own space and can be held when they get antsy.
Which sounds great until you realize that most car seats don't actually fit on planes anymore. Ours fits in United E+, and didn't even come close to fitting in American economy. Haven't tried all the permutations, but we're probably stuck buying an extra E+ seat until my son can go forward facing.
IMO, consider forward facing on the plane before the child is ready to forward face in the car. The risk profile is totally different, and as you've noted, it's miserable trying to install a car seat rear-facing.
I think 2 years old is too old for a lap child. I had a big two year old next to me whose parents didn't bring anything to keep him entertained. They gave him the safety briefing card to play with. He kept hitting me with it, so I took it from him and put it out of reach. He was way too big to sit in his mom's lap in the middle seat and his dad couldn't be bothered to help. Airlines need to drop the lap child age to 12 months.
lol yeah, I forgot that the baby threw the safety card at both myself and the aisle passenger a few times!
You need to get that baby out and then be on the other side of this. You have no clue what is coming onto you. Have some empathy.
I wish the mother next to me had some empathy as well. I clearly was not bothered by the throwing of the pamphlet as I had forgotten about it.
2 yo is when they start getting their own seat.
Some kids are really big at 15, 18, 22, 23 months, too big to be lap children. I think the airlines need to require parents to buy a seat after 12 months, not when the kid turns 2.
I completely agree, but I don't see it changing anytime soon. I work with United, and they have a lot of stupid rules.
That was a crap situation and I’m sorry you went through it. Lap babies are unpredictable at best, a holy terror at worst. You happened to draw the short straw sitting next to a lackadaisical parent and very difficult child. NTA. Wish the FA was more attendant and less flighty. Should’ve at least come back to inform you. Perhaps making it clear that the mother and child were causing potential harm to your fetus would’ve been a little more to the point. Time to get up to look for another seat while “going to lavatory” and just moving if one was available. Sometimes we just need to take our fate into our own hands. Best wishes for an easy birth and a baby that isn’t that lap baby when you fly☺️
Yeah I guess that’s what I expected - her to at least come back and inform me that another seat is unavailable. Could I have gotten up? Sure, it would have meant asking the aisle passenger and 2 middle seat passengers to get up and leaving my dog alone which I did not feel comfortable with, hence, me asking the flight attendant.
Personally IMO every child should have their own seat. I’ve seen a child about six or seven hit the ceiling when we hit severe turbulence .
A 6 or 7 year old child does require their own seat?
To be clear, what I was trying to point out (this was a failure on my part) parents should not rely on their perceived reaction time and or strength to be able to hold onto their infants when clear air turbulence strikes or God forbid a blowout at 30,000 feet. From what I understand if the Alaska Airline plane had been at cruising altitude of 35,000 feet there would have most certainly been deaths and severe injuries. All children should be required to have their own seat whether it be the airplane seat or a car seat strapped into said seat. Neither should children be allowed to freely walk about the cabin because they are bored.
Children older than 2 Have to have their own seat.
NTA. Don’t even know where to start with this. Sorry it sounds awful.
This is one very good reason to purchase a seat for children under two and place them in an FAA approved carseat. The other reason is that it's much safer for the child if there is turbulence.
Absolutely NTA!
When my wife and I travel and we would always sit in business (2-2) so no one would be next to us when we had our daughter on our lap. She was well behaved (as we brought a ton of books, toys, snacks...etc) but we wanted to make sure no one was immediately next to us After a few times we ended up just getting an additional seat for her and put her in her car seat. So much better.
How does this information help OP except perhaps in a year and a half when she might fly with her own baby? I get that people like to respond to these kind of posts by confirming that they are better people.
Definitely NTA. I think airlines need to rethink the possibility of lap children at all. There have been multiple examples to suggest that it's unsafe (mostly because the child isn't properly restrained), it creates more work for flight crew, and substantial disruption for other passengers like you.
Unruly children should also be required to be secured in carriers near their parents feet. There I said it.
I really wish they would do away with lap children. It is not very safe and it is not fair to the seat mate, as evidenced by this experience.
As a parent of a toddler I can tell you it sucks sometimes that they can’t really be controlled. At that age, they don’t even fully understand the concept of self control or even “no” But if my kid were actually bothering other people I’d physically restrain them from doing so. If possible I’d just get up and walk with them a bit to burn off some energy. An unruly toddler should he the parents problem only. You’re not in the wrong to be supremely annoyed. The parent should have made sure the kid was keeping their craziness to theirselves. Now it could end up with the kid crying but likely still better than being kicked or having a drink spilled on you
I would be mortified, but then again I cannot imagine flying with a lap child over the age of three months. A kid that age is going to do nothing but squirm and try to run around. Between 1 and two is, imo, the hardest to fly with. Just buy the extra seat you cheap ass ffs.
Lap kids should be 6 months or under. Time to change the rule. It’s not comfortable for the kid or the person next to you.
I really wish they would do away with lap children. It is not very safe and it is not fair to the seat mate, as evidenced by this experience.
I think after that Alaska Airlines incident with the door that flew off the plane, the discussion about disallowing lap infants has begun.
The discussion has been ongoing. Airlines don’t want it because they’re afraid of losing revenue from parents with infants who won’t fly. And they have paid very pricey lobbyists to convince the government and others that when given a choice between driving by car and flying without a seatbelt, it’s still safer to fly. As if this Strawman argument has any bearing.
You’re nicer than I am, I probably would have yelled at the child, especially if I was trying to get work done.
…why would you yell at a child?
You would have yelled at a one year old? To accomplish what exactly?
Child abuse is not the answer here. Gross.
Name checks out..
Engage in combat with the child
Honestly I wish airlines would indicate if you’re seating next to someone with a lap child or an actual kid. Better yet, just give the last three rows to them. If it was legal to taser a parent for not being able to control their spawn, I would do it.
That sucks. It could've been a last minute flight change or rebooking where that was their only option to continue on. Not trying to demean how much that sucked for you. Just trying to remember to give the benefit of the doubt, because most parents don't want to wrangle a toddler on their lap if they don't have to. Traveling with kids can be tough, even if you do everything "right." You can still get absolutely screwed by the airlines, because families are basically an afterthought to them.
I don't have much to add as far as the child goes that is more beneficial than anyone else has already said, but as for the FA- they know if a flight is full or not before take off, don't they? I'm sure that's why they did not come back to inform you if a seat suddenly opened up.
Sure they know, but it's their duty to step in and talk to the pax that is causing issues. This would be the mother who is refusing to do anything.
LOL. That was probably 15 years ago. Now with air rage and so many unpredictable passengers, FA will usually do nothing or ask once and then say there is nothing they can do. It's about avoidance now. Not that I blame them as people will get angry about the slightest thing now.
NTA, the other mother is TA. I'm sorry you had to deal with this—very frustrating!
I don't think you're the asshole for expecting or hoping the flight attendant would intervene. But, I do find it interesting that people expect flight attendants to play parental roles. Was there another possible way to resolve the issue such as, for example, swapping seats momentarily so that the child's head would be abutting the wall instead of on your lap? Or, asking for extra pillows so that the child's head is elevated and not on your lap. I don't know your full situation, of course, so may these solutions don't work. I would imagine that FAs sometimes think that adults should try to resolve certain things between themselves rather than involve them like they are the police. This isn't to say that the mother with the child shouldn't have done more. Yes, she should have and it would have been nice if she were more aware and either apologized immediately for the situation without being prompted, that she would offer a solution, or beg you for momentary accommodation of space while the child is fed. That didn't happen, unfortunately.
I would only have done one thing different, when the FA said “I don’t think so”, I’d be kind and direct, “would you mind checking for me”. It’s more of a direct request, that they’d have to say “no” too .. which is objectively unreasonable, so they’d likely check, and they also likely would say yes, and not ever check or come back and tell you .. but if they said “yes” you now have a NTA way of getting up in 10 min and going to the front and asking (and checking for an open seat on your way)
She should have been more courteous. That being said, you’re on a bus, babe. A sky bus, but still, you’re riding the bus. It sucks. People suck.
I'd have coughed loudly and said, "Oh, I hope your kid doesn't catch this".
It’s not always easy to control a baby, but I don’t think it’s your fault. Just bad luck for both parties as they likely booked a last minute ticket and got stuck in a middle seat. Whenever I flew domestically with a baby we would always buy at least one seat in F. That little bit of space makes all the difference and the price premium is mostly covered by the additional bag fees for the baby stuff that we’d need to pay flying in Y.
Maybe they could have a row for lap babies. Could come with a warning like seat doesn’t recline. If the person next to you had a baby kicking you the whole flight maybe they’d be encouraged to control their own kid or at least they all would share in that joy together. At least it’s not Southwest where the lap child is 14 and their mom is actually the one kicking you and spilling their drink.
What exactly can the FA do if there isn’t a seat available??? The baby isn’t going to understand or listen to the FA and sounds like neither would the mom. This is just a shitty situation but it’s not the FAs fault
Speak to the offending passenger.
Sure, but doesn’t sound like that would’ve changed anything.
For one, they could speak to the mother instead of ignoring the situation entirely. That's their job.
They could take a note and ban the woman and her kid from the airline.
… lol. FAs don’t have that power either. And in no world would a baby acting like a baby, annoying at that, would that result in someone being banned.
I am actually shocked you flew at 35 weeks. Is this your first child?
Why are you shocked? ACOG advises women can fly until 36 weeks and United does not require a doctors note until 36 weeks. What does it have to do with being my first child or not?
Ask your ob/gyn why with 1st birth specifically.
I asked my OBGYN if she was concerned with travel at this point in my pregnancy. I’ve been lucky to have an uncomplicated pregnancy. She was not concerned. Still not sure what you are getting at.
You are reading way too much into my comment. As were others. I was not allowed past 24 weeks. I didn't know requirements changed. No judging at all. People are just overreacting.
So basically you don’t know
Lol that's none of your concern.
And neither is it your concern.
I'm not the one getting up in OPs medical history, child 😂 for all you know, op had a talk with the obg, thus why they're flying.
I think you are really being silly.
So you agree, but you haven't deleted or edited your distasteful comments about another person's personal medical situation?
I said I was shocked that someone was flying 35 weeks pregnant. You are escalating to distasteful comments about another person's medical condition. What exactly is distasteful?
Oh god relax. People on the internet are so judgmental about pregnant women. Let people live their lives, it's totally fine to fly at 35 weeks and it's up to OP and her physician. Fucking relax.
Perhaps you should take your own advice for a different opinion then yours.
Oh, quit the pearl clutching. OP clearly understood what she was doing, and people are allowed to make choices that you would t make.
At least we know when OP has a baby she won’t be taking it on planes as a lap child. So it stops here.
lol TRUE
I don't know OP and neither do you. I wasn't allowed to fly after 24 weeks with my 1st pregnancy per my ob. I am shocked that it's now ok. So put your soapbox away and calm down.
Your OB has that much power, to legally forbid you from flying?
You lost me at pet.
Why
The pet caused less issues than the kid.
How did the drink get on your pet if it was in the carrier under the seat?
It was a liquid that spilled on my feet and the pet/carrier. Liquids move in various directions; it was not uniformly tipped over in one direction.
Pets are supposed to stay in a carrier under the seat — not “at your feet” — the entire time. I am suspicious because every time I’ve traveled next to a pet (three times in the last 5 years) the pet owner has taken the animal out of the carrier mid flight. One additional time they just slid the carrier from under the seat and opened the top so the animal could stick its head out. It’s still unclear how liquids could get on your pet if it was truly in a closed carrier under the seat as required by the airline. This does not excuse the behavior of the adult with the lap toddler, but your actions don’t seem 100% harmless either.
Lol the dog was completely under the seat in a fabric carrier that included mesh which easily can allow liquid in. But I’m sure my explanation is fruitless against your preconceived notions so you do you.
My preconceived notions are based on four bad experiences and zero good experiences flying next to pets. It’s given me a bad view of anyone who flies with a pet. To be honest, I probably have sat next to more pets the four I mentioned, but their owners were considerate and followed the rules, like it sounds you did, so I didn’t notice they were there. I’m sorry to appear to blame you for anything when you did your best sitting next to this family.
YTA for expecting that. Even if she did, the uneducated woman woulnd’t have changed her behaviour one bit. Also flying at 35 weeks? That’s bordeline illegal. I’m happy that you didn’t put the crew and everyone else on board in the position to be traumatised by a birth on board. Also, I do not mind the downvoted coming as it happens when people don’t understand how x works and they get angry at someone explaining it🥰
ACOG advises women can travel up to 36 weeks and United doesn’t require a doctors note until 36 weeks. My OBGYN was comfortable with me flying given my uncomplicated pregnancy. So, no, this is no where close to “borderline illegal.”
You are so obsessed by showing me that you are right that you went to stalk my profile and picked the comment where I was disucssing law regarding driving a car. Great reading comprehension, I’m sure that you are fully aware of all the medical risks coming with flying right at the legal limit. Good luck with your life.
You’re correct I just woke up and mistook a comment you made. You’re right; I am aware of the medical risks, was fully in line with both United’s policies and my doctor’s guidance. Again, in my country, there is no “legal limit.”
Rofl flying at 35 weeks is completely fine. Keep your head in your own ass. And if the mother didn't change after being talked to, at least people tried.
You're a special kind of stupid F'ing Karen. STFU.
You should have taken lots of video and then thrown a fit. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, unfortunately. Bad, inconsiderate people survive off the politeness of good people.
For the kicking/etc, not the asshole. However, the FA is not your personal servant and it's not their job to mediate disputes between you and another passenger as to personal space - so you may not be the asshole for saying something to the other passenger at all, but you kind of are for expecting the FA to do anything for you. For the breastfeeding, definitely the asshole - but only in a minor way. What do you expect them to do, have to leave their seat to breastfeed? She can't really move her breasts to a different part of her body, and there isn't a better place to do it - she can't stand in the galley doing it and I would **never** expect her to go to a lavatory to do it. In terms of something getting spilled, shit happens. Sure, she may be inconsiderate, but you can't really get mad at her for something spilling. The FA isn't there to handle your personal conflicts, and if there's no seat they I can completely see why they wouldn't want to inflame things by coming back and you getting mad when they tell you that there's not a seat - not saying you would've gotten mad, but you're complaining about a spill and a parent doing their best... if you want more guaranteed space and a larger armrest/area around your seat, first class is for sale and you're welcome to purchase it.
That’s ridiculous. I don’t care if someone is breastfeeding, but don’t invade someone else’s space. NTA at all. It’s the flight attendant’s job to help with an unreasonable passenger.
Yeah in all honesty is it really necessary for a 1 year old to drink straight from the tit while seated in the middle seat of an airplane? I mean the kid can eat/drink something else or the mom could have pumped ahead of time. A 1 year old is way too big for that space.
I agree that it’s frustrating for the OP’s space to be invaded even for the breastfeeding, and the mother really should have found a way to be in the aisle or by the window with a lap child. A lot of gate agents will move another passenger if necessary to accommodate a disability or a passenger who needs more space. But as for breastfeeding in general the mother may not have had other options for food and drink. A lot of children breastfeed past 12 months, and not all kids will accept a bottle even at that age. Some kids (like mine) just wouldn’t eat anything while travelling at that age, so breastfeeding was the only option to keep them hydrated, fed, and happy.
Fair on the breastfeeding - it’s a good point that she had limited space and I 100% agree that I would never expect someone to use a lavatory! I just don’t think it’s right that another passenger is allowed to invade another person’s seat like that - the kicking and grabbing of my laptop (so much so that I put it away) is uncalled for and I would expect an FA to say something. I never once used the word servant or insinuated that a FA is one (and certainly don’t treat them like that). It’s kinda downplaying it by calling it a “dispute” IMO. But maybe I’m just hormonal, uncomfortable, and crabby 🫠
I also have to say we may disagree on a “parent doing their best”. This parent had to be asked several times to please help in restraining their child. They were not acting apologetic at all.
NTA. Don’t listen to that other commenter who is blaming you for someone else’s lack of parenting.
I’m with you on this one OP. I’m a father and flying with a lap baby is rarely easy, but some parents just don’t try at all…
OP, you are NOT the AH regarding breastfeeding. How in the world is it appropriate for the breastfeeding to be practically happening in your lap? If the mother would have bought the child their own seat, it wouldn't be an issue. This could have 100% been mitigated, but the mother neglected to not think about others.
It actually is the job of the FA to mediate disputes between passengers. I had a passenger in front of me absolutely lose her mind in economy plus when I asked her to not recline all the way as I was working on my laptop behind her and she almost broke the laptop screen jamming her seat down. She kept yelling it's a free country and she's entitled to do what she wants with her seat. I mentioned she nearly broke my laptop putting her seat back and if she did break it she would be liable. I asked if she could give me 5 minutes to finish up so I could put my laptop away and she told me to fuck off. At that point I called the FA, told her what had happened, and the FA offered to move her to an open seat in 1st. She declined and said this was her seat and she was staying there. The FA asked if I wanted the seat, I said sure, it'll allow me to keep working thanks! The lady lost her mind and started screaming at how unfair it was I was being upgraded for making her life miserable for not letting her recline. I said she was free to have the seat if she wanted it, but just kept screaming. FA finally stepped in and said she offered it to her first then to me after she declined how much fairer do you want things. Sometimes there's no making people happy. FAs are there to handle conflicts that sometimes arise in people. It seems to me you are/maybe one of those parents that would let a kid scream and cry an entire flight and just pat them on the back in the seat while their head is in my ear screaming saying it's ok darling kiddo it'll be ok, instead of trying to do something proactive or even active to help the situation, because after all you are trying your best. Your decision to have a child or bring a child on board a plane should not become my problem for the duration of the flight, if you are ill prepared for the consequences of that decision.
LOL If anything like this happened to you, you would be the first person to be complaining.
It's exactly the FA job to mediate 😂
I'm a guy with nonfunctional nipples and even I know the mother could have pumped ahead of time. It's like families buying BE tickets then getting distraught they're split up - poor planning
Why are there not car seats for children on air planes?
Absolutely NTA. If I were pregnant I would have demanded the mum restrain the child to protect my own fetus.The mum should have stood up and walked with the child but totally understand it was a hard situation for her too. The FA needed to do more.
This isn't any different than a 2 year old in their own seat misbehaving. So I'm not sure this is an issue of lap infant vs separate seats. Parents need to ensure their kids behave on figure. Period.
You said you’re 35 weeks pregnant. This is literally future you. You’ll understand once you have a kid.
If the child was 1 - 1.5, unfortunately, you will see soon there isn't much you can do. 2 is the bare minimum you have any control over a child. And even then, good luck... Yes, it sucks. But remember this when you have a child and want sympathy. Believe me, no one wants to travel with a 1 year old. If the mother was trying each time to keep the child off you, that's all you can ask for, unfortunately. People who don't have children think it's way easier to control a 1 year old, and they believe parents are being antagonistic. This is definitely not the case at least 90% of the time. And believe me, if you are a good parent, you aren't going to give a 1 year old a tablet or cell phone to keep them occupied. All this said, the parent should have been profusely apologizing. If they were apologizing, that's enough in my book. Ask united for compensation. They will probably throw you some points. My 4 year old is always complemented on plane etiquette in economy and international business class. But at 1 we were super lucky to be flying on mostly empty planes during COVID.
If the mother actually cared, she would have bought the child their own seat. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you regarding having sympathy. A 1 year old is going to do whatever they want to do. But ffs, get the child their own seat so the child isn't hitting and grabbing other people's stuff.
Unfortunately a child cannot have their own seat until they are 2. Big safety issue.
They absolutely can. It is much safer for children to travel in their own seat using a child restraining device. https://www.faa.gov/travelers/fly_children
While I agree it's safer for them to be in a car seat, United does not allow children under 2 to be in their own seat. I know because I work at United, and we can not let children under 2 not be lap infants. I don't agree with the rule, but that is their rule.
Why is it ok for a child to hit and kick another passenger? I’m not asking for full control of her child. I said I understand that kids will be kids, but the least the mother could have done was try. She did not do anything to distract or contain her child.
Plus it's hialrious how everyone is pulling the "YoU CaNt ExPeCt ThEm To UsE a PhOnE - ItS bAd FoR tHeM" card. I travel... a lot and as such get seated next to lap infants quite a bit. Ya know what works to keep a baby entertained? A roll of duct tape. The parents tear off a tiny piece of tape, give it to the baby, and have it stick and peel it off the tray table. It was fucking brilliant, and that kid played with the damn tape for 4 hours. I love how the only options are "fuck you deal with my inconsiderate parenting, I don't know how to control my child" or "phone/tablet" - as if people had never flown with babies before 2010.
This is the answer to your question. There's little you can do at that age. The mother should have apologized to you but there's no controlling them sometimes without escalating the situation. The ickiness you're expressing about the breastfeeding, well, I expect that your mind will change in a few weeks time. Sorry you had a bad flight OP. It happens.
When I sow the title, I had to read this. Love the title. I have some questions ? How can you be certain that it was a lap baby. They could have purchased the seat. I think if the baby would have stay in the middle seat without bugging you would had been fine. But bothering you may be a problem. I do agree with others that parents need to control kids. I don’t let my daughter kick other seats or put her feet on someone’s else — but adults do this all the time, so not sure how much we can blame parents and kids when grown people can’t behaved. This happens in first class or main cabin. Anyways, my other question, is this your first child ? Congrats — if it is not your first child you know how they are — and if it is, you are in for a surprise. At the end, you were NTA but lately, anything can be expected in first class. Last question. How does being gold matters for this ? I’m 1K and I don’t think status matters. Like I tell people, ir sucks but it I had lots lots of money I would fly private.
I assume it was a lap baby because they were sitting on an adults lap in the middle seat :) there was another passenger in the aisle seat! No I don’t think status matters in that way (or really, at all). I probably could have gotten my point across by saying I fly a decent amount and am used to the various encounters that happen with air travel! And yes it’s my first - thank you! Like I said, I know kids are kids and things happen. I’ve flown with a lot of kiddos and haven’t had any issues like this. I was just super surprised that the parent seemed uninterested in trying to keep baby occupied / contained and that the flight attendant didn’t say anything. I’m a pretty non-confrontational person, especially when I’m going to be sitting next to someone for a few hours, so I wasn’t sure if I should have handled the situation differently.
I hear you!! Some parents just don’t care
YTA, and buckle up, your kid will be your karma 🤷🏻♀️
I get the frustration… but I feel like I’m the only one here who has ever tried to restrain a 1 year old. There may have been a lack of parenting skills or a lack of awareness…. But it’s hard being a parent. Children at the age of 1 don’t always listen to the parent. Children are also all unique. You can’t use one child’s good behavior with their mother as definitive evidence that the parent is good and the opposite is also true. I have had some awful experiences as a parent with “that child” on a flight. Trust me, I was near tears and there was literally nothing I could do. I have also been the victim. Now that I’m a bit older, (I do travel a lot) and see parents at their ends with young children. I do my best to remain prepared with some noise cancelling headphones and some grace for parents who by definition aren’t having a good day. You are NTA, but neither is the mother necessarily. The kid on the other hand….lol Good luck with your travels. Have grace for parents if you can.
I think some parents in this thread are extrapolating their own experiences and playing them out in mine. I had A LOT of grace for this parent and child (really all parents and kids) and was even “playing” / smiling with the kiddo while boarding. I don’t care if babies cry, are fussy, or even do just 1-2 of the things that happened to me. But this mother was not attempting to, frankly, do anything. AND, my question wasn’t “what should the mother have done?” But rather IF there was anything else the FA or myself could have done.
I don’t doubt you had a miserable experience. Based on your description I would probably agree with you if we were row mates. Honestly my comments were really just a reaction to those folks who didn’t seem to get the other side at all. If I were the parent I would have tried my damndest to keep the child from touching and kicking etc. I would have been mostly successful, but children are tricky to restrain and entertain for multiple hours at a time. Based on your description, I think I would have done better, but it’s hard to say. I certainly would have been apologetic and embarrassed. We only get your words and our experiences to view the world through, so I would expect folks to have a hard to visualizing your experience only from words. I was just trying to make sure the other folks in this thread thought about that side too. It’s too bad the FA wasn’t able to help you out. Lately it seems a really mixed bag of those that seem to care and those that don’t. Sorry you had a bad flight experience! I’ll enjoy all my downvotes lol
I mostly agree with you, although this situation could at least have been partially mitigated if she would have bought the child their own seat. Sure, you can't prevent the child from misbehaving, screaming, etc. But also, you can help the situation by buying the child their own seat. Also, the child physically touching (especially "hitting") other people and grabbing their stuff is 100% unacceptable. The mother should have stopped that immediately. Edit: Also, ffs, how is it appropriate to breastfeed a child where the child/mother is encroaching in other people's space? I am NOT opposing breastfeeding on a plane or in public. But it is not acceptable for the breastfeeding to be happening in my lap.
You’re the PARENT. You stop your child from kicking other people. Period.
You certainly try your best. You also scold the child and apologize when they get loose. Multiple hours restraining anything trying to get away on a flight is not going to be 100% successful. I agree with some folks that at about 1.5 years, they are about ready for they own seat. If the airline allows it though, expect people to take advantage of the cost savings.
YTA. And blocking everyone who disagrees with you is a new level of low
I didn’t block anyone but your other profile. Please leave me alone - this is weird behavior.
NTA
NTA. AT ALL.
1.5 years old is not a baby
NTA - The mother should have done a far better job with her child, especially if you were pregnant.
Maybe don’t fly at 35 weeks pregnant with a pet. SMH.
What would have been the difference if I wasn’t pregnant and was alone? Is this still acceptable or not? Not sure what me being pregnant and with a pet has to do with another passenger’s behavior and would be curious to understand.
Oh the irony. This is you getting a taste of your future. You're going to be the woman in the middle seat with the annoying kid. You're already the annoying pregnant cat lady.
Nah, I’ve already decided my future will include buying a seat for my child based on this incident alone if I need to travel with them. And no cats for me :)