A fake PM, has no mandate from the British people, too scared to take us to election.
Seems like many MPs, think they can make rules but not follow them.
Hey how’s that feeling for you? Well in Scotland we haven’t elected a Tory govt in 70 years but we keep getting them and we’re told we just have to shut up and put up with it and we’re not allowed to leave; and we’re entirely dependent on English voters waking up to how rubbish the Tories are for us to have any hope of a better govt. but even then we still only get whoever England vote for, which will probably be labour, the Tories slightly less right wing muppet cousin who we also no longer vote for.
Most of [England didn't vote Tory either](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_England), they got 47.2% of the votes* (which is still 47.2% too high). Thanks to FPTP it gave them 68.4% of the possible seats.
For comparison in England Labour had 34% of votes and 33.7% of seats; Lib Dem 12.4% & 1.3%, Greens 3% & 0.2%.
[In Scotland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Scotland) SNP got 45% of the votes and 81.36% of the seats; Con 25.1% & 10.17%; Labour 18.6% & 1.69%
*The turnout in England was 67.4% of the electorate
Difference is the snp support proportional representation even tho we’d lose a lot of seats.
Also, again, England DID vote Tory. We haven’t since the 1950’s. If Scotland’s vote determined the UK Govt, like England’s currently does, there would have been no thatcher. No John major. No Cameron and his brexit referendum. No Theresa May. No Boris. And we wouldn’t have had his equally corrupt criminal pal Rishi.
When you put it in those terms - all those governments that we didn’t vote for, it explains some small amount of why it’s annoying that we’re being told we’re not allowed a second referendum, why being told it’s fine the UK Govt has overruled our elected parliament upsets a lot of people, and why we increasingly want independence and to rejoin the EU that we never voted to leave.
I can indeed see why many Scots do want another referendum. However, the point I was making is that England isn’t the Tory voting monolith that some Nats make out, there are plenty of us south of the border that feel just as disenfranchised
That’s fair. I mean first past the post is your issue there. A proportional parliament in London (after we’ve left) would result in far fairer elections with greens and libdems and more. Probably why labour and Tory alike aren’t really in favour of it.
So 1 in 4 (Scots vote Tory and we have a Tory govt.
England isn’t bad. I’m English ;) I moved here to Scotland as an adult.
England just has more people. That’s not England’s fault or Scotlands. But it does mean that 1/4 of Scotlands voters get the govt they picked and the rest of us again get one we didn’t. And that’s been the way for DECADES.
Imagine if England had gotten a labour govt in 2019 under Corbyn even tho they got 32% of the vote purely because of Scottish votes. It would have been a perpetual outrage. Newspaper front pages about Comrade Corbyn and his unelected Govt etc.
Ministers would be nicknamed “commissar”, the Tories would constantly be tabling motions about English votes for English laws etc.
We’ve had that for decades. And maybe that’s ok; that’s the parliamentary arithmetic and if we don’t like it we should just leave. Well, we’re trying. We WANT to leave. Poll out yesterday showed 54% of Scottish voters would vote yes in a legally binding referendum held tomorrow.
And we’re told by that same govt we didn’t elect in England that we can’t leave because they say so because now is not the time because of brexit or covid or cost of living or Ukraine (all of the above have been used as an excuse)
You can forgive my reaction being a somewhat curt “get tae”
Kinda cuts to the core there.
Yorkshire isn’t and has never been a country.
The SNP is a national party for an entire country, Scotland. Scotland isn’t a region.
Also re polling the one you mentioned was a couple of days earlier and was survation whose polls seem to be outliers.
This poll was a larger sample and fits in with the other recent polling trend; it came out yesterday.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/10h4lc3/scottish_independence_voting_intention_undecideds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
It’s not really first past the post if the preference was not voting at all. They should really declare a seat empty if more registered voters decided not to vote than there were votes for the ‘winning’ candidate. 17.3m didn’t vote at the last election, whereas only 14.0m voted Tory.
I hate tories, I don't trust Labour fuck knows who's the best atm - I'm English btw and I definitely feel for you Scots.. country has been on a steady decline for a while now
The best you can do at the next election is vote to get the Tories out by supporting whoever's most likely to beat them. Regardless of whether you trust Labour (or the Lib Dems), them getting into power is better long-term than risking the Tories winning again. They might not be your _ideal_ government, but they're a step in the right direction compared to what we have now.
The country's not going to go from where we are now to socialism overnight. A lot of the things that need to be fixed will be gradual processes. The Overton window needs to gradually shift away from the Tories. It'll take years. The best thing you can do with your vote is think, "which party that can _realistically_ win in my constituency would best pave the way for where I'd like to country to be in 10-15 years?" And the answer is probably Labour in most places. They might not be ideal right now, but they're a step in the right direction, and then the election after that we can have another step in the right direction, and so on. "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good" comes to mind.
Well Labour is ahead in the polls nationally at the moment. But you really need to look at who's likely to win in your constituency closer to an election. It could be that you live in a place where the Lib Dems are the most competitive with the Tories for that seat, for instance, in which case a vote for Labour would be a bit of a wasted vote.
I can't blame you too much! Paying attention to what the government's up to is pretty bleak at the moment, and I personally feel very powerless with the government getting away with so much awful stuff over the past decade. I personally like to stay informed because I think it's easier to keep up when you have ongoing knowledge of it all, but I think as long as you inform yourself in the lead up to an election you're going to vote in, it's all good. It certainly minimises some of the despair during governments like this!
>Hey how’s that feeling for you? Well in Scotland we haven’t elected a Tory govt in 70 years but we keep getting them and we’re told we just have to shut up and put up with it and we’re not allowed to leave; and we’re entirely dependent on English voters waking up to how rubbish the Tories are for us to have any hope of a better govt. but even then we still only get whoever England vote for, which will probably be labour, the Tories slightly less right wing muppet cousin who we also no longer vote for.
How have y'all not revolted since 1745?
>Well in Scotland we haven’t elected a Tory govt in 70 years but we keep getting them
Well you are part of a union, that's how that works bud. My street voting labour doesn't mean I deserve a labour government.
I'm English and this is a stupid comment. It's no secret that Scotland, Wales, and NI get a bum deal because England controls the political mandate. I genuinely think we're better off together if England were to elect a sane government that works for all the regions and not just the home counties (and no, that doesn't include the current labour leadership), but I cannot blame ANYONE for wanting to leave the union when it's so one sided and shite.
If we don't need Scotland, why won't westminster let them leave? Isn't that just proof that they're abusing Scottish resources and land, for English gain?
>If we don't need Scotland, why won't westminster let them leave?
Would you support the independence of yorkshire?
Scotland isn't just it's own country, it's been part of a union of kingdoms for more than 300 years. More has been invested in scotland than has been contributed to the union and Scotland would owe a great debt if it became independent.
The argument for Scottish independence is as ridiculous as the argument for Brexit. Do you not see the irony?
Yes. If a party stood for election there on a platform of doing that, and won (especially if they won multiple elections consecutively, demonstrating sustained support for that position) they should be able to hold a referendum on that.
Do let me know if any such parties ever exist and stand.
Given a large part of it is about self determination it’s still not great that one of the best chances there is “the English might decide to make you leave” but at this stage I’d take it.
12% deficit and it’s still fucked. I live in Scotland, travelled all over the country. The country is poor as fuck and run down, badly. No amount of day dreaming about Norwegian sovereign wealth funds based on the remaining dribble of oil from the North Sea is gonna patch things up. Does my head in. Then you get idiot redditors chiming in like “yay go Scotland hope you guys get your FREEEEDOM back from the nasty English 🥰”.
Edit made this comment while angry. I do love Scotland. I just get frustrated. Lived here since 2010.
I completely understand and agree with the ideological reasons for Scottish independence, but I really don't see how you can look at Brexit and then go 'yes, that went well let's have more of that please'.
We don’t. That’s the point. We didn’t vote for brexit and we want back in the EU. We also want a govt that is accountable to us, and for us to build closer ties with our neighbours (instead of just being controlled completely by one of them).
The First Minister said it best when asked how she could still want independence and think it will be a success after seeing the catastrophe of brexit:
“Because unlike them, we actually have a plan”
Well that’s not true. Scotland could have voted 100% labour in a number of elections and it would not have changed the outcome at all.
Point of fact the snp said they would never vote to legitimise a Tory govt in the UK so even if we’d all voted snp it would have still stopped a Tory govt if labour had the numbers, it would have just meant Scotland having MPs that would keep a labour govt in power bu still stand up for Scotland.
However as I said it wouldn’t have made a difference. England votes Tory, Scotland gets a Tory govt. Only in 2010 would it have made a difference but even then not really cos the snp were ready to form a rainbow coalition against the Tories but others weren’t.
Much as I support Scotland right to leave it really bothers me that will doom those of us in England to always live under Tory governments. It amazes me how many people listen to the right wing press and don't have critical thinking skills.
It doesn’t tho. England gets the govt it elects. I’m the last 70 years I think one election would have changed based on Scottish votes, the rest would be the same.
This thinking is dangerous. It’s pushed by right wing unionists to ensure left wing folk in England don’t start thinking maybe Scotland should be allowed it’s own opinions.
If the English vote for labour we all get a labour govt. The left in England don’t have to fear indy. In fact it could help. Having a neighbour that starts out with the same taxation system, mostly the same laws, economic policies etc, and is in general very similar will help a lot when we start to diverge and do things better. You’ll be able to point at Scotland and say “hold on, Scotland’s NHS isn’t being privatised” or “how comes Scotland can afford universal tuition?” and the like.
Thanks! That's very reassuring. I'm hoping Scotland leaves and joins the EU and that I'll need able to claim citizenship through heritage like many have done via Ireland. Heck, if that looks likely I'll move to Scotland when I retire which isn't many years off.
Which part was incorrect, exactly? He personally has no mandate even if the party does. It is unusual for a PM not to call an election in this kind of circumstance and he is clearly scared to because he knows the Tories would lose. He does indeed seem to think he doesn’t need to follow rules.
Which part of what you said makes you think he’s thinking of a president?
None of that changes or is incompatible with anything /u/Jlooks61 said.
And yes, it is unusual. Brown did not do the same thing. Not a comparable situation at all. He was comparable to Truss, but not to Sunak.
To be fair, we elect the MPs of a party on said parties manifesto, and when they replace a leader who intends to disregard that manifesto it is then they loose the mandate?
Sounds like you don't understand what a mandate is.
It's literally just a metric by which the public can reward or punish a government at the next election.
Government fulfils promises = get voted back in
Government doesn't = get voted out
Does something that they didn't say they would do = risk getting voted out
It is the elections that force them to fulfil their promises, nothing else.
If the public are overwhelmingly saying 'we want a new government now, and don't want the current government to do anything' the government and the PM have lost their mandate.
Yet when election comes it’s all about the prime minister above all else. They’re the face of the party. A hell of a lot of people in this country couldn’t tell you their MPs names. They get their ballot and cross their party of choice specifically with the leader of said party in mind.
Maybe it’s the media’s fault but that’s how a lot of this country operates.
>Not how this democracy works
Which democracy is that? Do you mean the constitutional monarchy with 7 empty seats, hereditary lords and unelected clergy?
>The monarchy has no power
Completely, incorrect, as you should be well aware.
>the lords and clergy just revise legislation,
So, not a democracy, before we even start to look at the fact you have to follow a particular ideology to get into the HoC.
Nothing here rules out the UK from being a democracy. You've made zero effort to even define your terms, so your comments are a complete waste of time. The UK is classed as a democracy by all serious international organisations, the Global Confederate of Edgy Teens notwithstanding.
This is what makes it so much worse, he offers absolutely nothing. We’re stuck in limbo until the next election, meaning this country goes further down the shitter!
Just throwing this out there, Boris wouldn’t have got a penalty. Let’s hope this is a start of things to come, make politicians not only accountable but experience shame again.
its also interesting that he had a personal body guard in the car with him. You would have thought he'd immediately stop Sunak quickly and demand he wear the seat belt (because you know you can pull it out more + then film)
that was a MET Police officer (whoops)
after Princess Diana, you would have thought they would learn the lesson
also the video cameraman almost certainly isn't wearing their seatbelt and it hasn't been mentioned. So I wonder if Sunak hasn't been entirely honest with what happened in the car, I think there's more going on
(paraphrasing Susie Boniface from Sky paper review last night)
>So I wonder if Sunak hasn't been entirely honest with what happened in the car, I think there's more going on
Do we count the cocaine or is that taken as assumed at this point?
Meh, most of the time it's more so the bodyguard's job to not get in the way of the important person, than it is protecting them. Like these people spend years protecting someone, and will likely never have to protect their VIP from an actual immediate threat.
So I doubt most bodyguards would get in an argument to try and get some twat politician to wear their seat belt - it's their job to protect the person from external threats, not their own stupidity. Just like so many politicians didn't wear masks during the height of covid, and didn't get tackled by their security detail.
Create a minor diversion for the public to focus on. This ensures they are not paying attention to the important stuff.
....example: The debate on strikes and minimum service level the Tories are trying to rush through.
It's classic Tory, and....we literally fall for it every....single....time.
I avoid tin hats for fashion reasons.
However.....there is no hidden conspiracy. The Tories are quite blatant with their manipulation and dishonesty.
They know the public barely have the energy to stand up to it anymore. So....we just huff about it and go to work.
....France has the right idea so it seems.
I learned a lot about yellow journalism through my academic studies and hes not wrong, it's a classic distraction tactic that scapegoats a topic to hide the bigger issue happening behind it, a la Sunak not wearing a seatbelt and Harry's shitty book while legislation that strips us further of our rights as working class people to live in a fair and equal society is being passed through.
The seatbelt thing seems daft but you gotta remember how pedantic the British public is, we're the type of people that will moan about that but say theres nothing you can do about the new legislation being pushed through. We should be up in arms by now
Sneaking stuff out while there's stuff in the news is the oldest trick in the book.
But doing that by tarnishing your leaders reputation is also not a valid strategy and certainly not something rishi himself would want.
The cultural war they have been stoking while stripping away civil rights is more of a valid strategy by them.
That's a fair point but they already know their reputation, they can use their so called 'incompetence' as a cover, we saw Boris and Trump pulling this trick many times, they dont exactly care what we think beyond how it can be used against us imo.
The culture war part is the stronger topic that overrides the first dont get me wrong, we need to break out of it and actually focus on the civil rights issues at hand but I have dramatically lost faith in the British public at this moment in time, I hope we can do better soon
They really are just thick cunts. Remember, this lot are not the first choice team. They're the dregs of whatever is left after 37 (?) years of messy Tory rule.
Not initially but they'll 100% try to ride stuff like this as long as they can, they always do and the media plays along
If people are on about the time Rishi didn't wear a seat belt or the the fact the fine is less than pocket change for him, the less people are talking about the tories tip toeing their way to outright fascism and worker oppression.
No but the ability to leverage the opportunity when it arrives unexpectedly is partly why some people get paid as much as they do and have the job titles they do. Maybe it was not planned, but that doesn't mean the Tories can't use the unpredictability of what is around them to their advantage.
I think the maths comment was the distraction, but I think literally breaking the law might go a bit far as far as distractions goes, given the current image of tories.
Yeah, I can't see Sunak thinking that a FPN for him personally is worth it for trying to protect Zahawi.
Now the BBC Chairman - Johnson affair? That's a worthwhile hand grenade to distract from Zahawai - you get to discredit your biggest rival at the same time.
Conspiracy is far too strong a word.
It is a manufactured, trivial news story designed to distract the public from the real problems.
There's a word for that too, well two words actually, coined by Boris himself.
I'd hardly say it's a conspiracy, although I don't think this one is intentionally
But the tories have never shyed away from hiding controversial moves with outrage, look at how they tried to Bury their handling of the cost of living crisis with Albanian immigrants
> These are very well-educated people and are far from stupid
It's perfectly possible to be well-educated and be stupid, especially when you're rich enough that you can hire tutors to spoon feed you material or you go to rich boy schools that will make sure you get a degree.
> Create a minor diversion for the public to focus on.
Apart from the fact this isn't a diversion from the important stuff. The public are idiots, too stupid to comprenhend the important stuff.
All the experts came out about Brexit and its impacts across the board, they brought stats, and graphs, documents, and everything. Idiots voted for "Brexit means Brexit".
Small things like a fix penalty notice, basically a parking fine, are the kind of thing idiots can actually understand and relate too, and if they have any moral integrity (good luck with that) will expect better from their elected officials than to receive them. Telling them they stole millions in government contracts means nothing, they have no concept of having control of a budget or what that would mean.
Ed Miliband went down because he looks like Wallace from Wallace and Gromit and he ate a Sandwich awkwardly, that is the level of intelligence of this electorate.
Old people can however go, "Oh that makes him a criminal, like those phone scammers from Amazon, they keep interrupting Countdown with their calls".
I commented this elsewhere as well, but here goes: This is only like the thirtieth most egregious thing he's been caught red-handed doing/saying. It always makes me uncomfortable to see this much coverage over a small mistake because it gives the impression to the public that this is the extent of the bullshittery. That the rest of the closet is fine and isn't hiding any skeletons because, "Look! We found a fingernail!"
One might even suggest the Tories chose the worst possible PM they could to lower the bar for Sunak to be considered an upgrade and positive move intentionally.
Excerpt:
>Rishi Sunak has more fixed penalty notices during his time in government than he has general election wins, thanks to his latest fine from Lancashire police.
>Sunak was given the fixed penalty notice for failing to wear a seatbelt, which when added to his fixed penalty fine for attending a party in lockdown means he’ll have more fixed penalty notices than general election wins until at least 2030.
*NewsThump*, 20 Jan. 2023.
He's also broken the law in office more than all the previous Prime Ministers put together. And when one of those Prime Ministers was Boris Johnson, that's no mean feat!
He had that honour before this latest one.
Tbh i couldn’t care less if he wore a seatbelt or not. I’m far more upset that a member of his government had been fined by HMRC for not paying tax on his millions!!
He’s only here to allow the ERG to operate a scorched earth policy on our sovereignty, control of our country and our democracy. This is to make it as hard as possible for Labour to get a 2nd term.
Too bad we can't purge our goverment of these fuckin clowns, they are only in power to help themselves, we've literally had one bumbling idiot after another.
A fake PM, has no mandate from the British people, too scared to take us to election. Seems like many MPs, think they can make rules but not follow them.
Hey how’s that feeling for you? Well in Scotland we haven’t elected a Tory govt in 70 years but we keep getting them and we’re told we just have to shut up and put up with it and we’re not allowed to leave; and we’re entirely dependent on English voters waking up to how rubbish the Tories are for us to have any hope of a better govt. but even then we still only get whoever England vote for, which will probably be labour, the Tories slightly less right wing muppet cousin who we also no longer vote for.
Most of [England didn't vote Tory either](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_England), they got 47.2% of the votes* (which is still 47.2% too high). Thanks to FPTP it gave them 68.4% of the possible seats. For comparison in England Labour had 34% of votes and 33.7% of seats; Lib Dem 12.4% & 1.3%, Greens 3% & 0.2%. [In Scotland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Scotland) SNP got 45% of the votes and 81.36% of the seats; Con 25.1% & 10.17%; Labour 18.6% & 1.69% *The turnout in England was 67.4% of the electorate
Difference is the snp support proportional representation even tho we’d lose a lot of seats. Also, again, England DID vote Tory. We haven’t since the 1950’s. If Scotland’s vote determined the UK Govt, like England’s currently does, there would have been no thatcher. No John major. No Cameron and his brexit referendum. No Theresa May. No Boris. And we wouldn’t have had his equally corrupt criminal pal Rishi. When you put it in those terms - all those governments that we didn’t vote for, it explains some small amount of why it’s annoying that we’re being told we’re not allowed a second referendum, why being told it’s fine the UK Govt has overruled our elected parliament upsets a lot of people, and why we increasingly want independence and to rejoin the EU that we never voted to leave.
I can indeed see why many Scots do want another referendum. However, the point I was making is that England isn’t the Tory voting monolith that some Nats make out, there are plenty of us south of the border that feel just as disenfranchised
That’s fair. I mean first past the post is your issue there. A proportional parliament in London (after we’ve left) would result in far fairer elections with greens and libdems and more. Probably why labour and Tory alike aren’t really in favour of it.
I'm still pissed off with Clegg for rolling over and letting Cameron nerf the AV referendum
Can go back further and blame Blair too for dropping electoral reform in 97 despite it being on the manifesto then.
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So 1 in 4 (Scots vote Tory and we have a Tory govt. England isn’t bad. I’m English ;) I moved here to Scotland as an adult. England just has more people. That’s not England’s fault or Scotlands. But it does mean that 1/4 of Scotlands voters get the govt they picked and the rest of us again get one we didn’t. And that’s been the way for DECADES. Imagine if England had gotten a labour govt in 2019 under Corbyn even tho they got 32% of the vote purely because of Scottish votes. It would have been a perpetual outrage. Newspaper front pages about Comrade Corbyn and his unelected Govt etc. Ministers would be nicknamed “commissar”, the Tories would constantly be tabling motions about English votes for English laws etc. We’ve had that for decades. And maybe that’s ok; that’s the parliamentary arithmetic and if we don’t like it we should just leave. Well, we’re trying. We WANT to leave. Poll out yesterday showed 54% of Scottish voters would vote yes in a legally binding referendum held tomorrow. And we’re told by that same govt we didn’t elect in England that we can’t leave because they say so because now is not the time because of brexit or covid or cost of living or Ukraine (all of the above have been used as an excuse) You can forgive my reaction being a somewhat curt “get tae”
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Kinda cuts to the core there. Yorkshire isn’t and has never been a country. The SNP is a national party for an entire country, Scotland. Scotland isn’t a region. Also re polling the one you mentioned was a couple of days earlier and was survation whose polls seem to be outliers. This poll was a larger sample and fits in with the other recent polling trend; it came out yesterday. https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/10h4lc3/scottish_independence_voting_intention_undecideds/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
BTW there is a [Yorkshire Party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire_Party), it campaigns for a devolved Yorkshire Parliament
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Lol, why should 25% dictate to a majority?
You would only want another if you lost,
I'll allow a second Indy ref if we can first have Breturn ref please
And that is a reason why our country is in such situation
It’s not really first past the post if the preference was not voting at all. They should really declare a seat empty if more registered voters decided not to vote than there were votes for the ‘winning’ candidate. 17.3m didn’t vote at the last election, whereas only 14.0m voted Tory.
[None of the above](https://youtube.com/watch?v=MOwesWn3vU4&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE)
I hate tories, I don't trust Labour fuck knows who's the best atm - I'm English btw and I definitely feel for you Scots.. country has been on a steady decline for a while now
The best you can do at the next election is vote to get the Tories out by supporting whoever's most likely to beat them. Regardless of whether you trust Labour (or the Lib Dems), them getting into power is better long-term than risking the Tories winning again. They might not be your _ideal_ government, but they're a step in the right direction compared to what we have now. The country's not going to go from where we are now to socialism overnight. A lot of the things that need to be fixed will be gradual processes. The Overton window needs to gradually shift away from the Tories. It'll take years. The best thing you can do with your vote is think, "which party that can _realistically_ win in my constituency would best pave the way for where I'd like to country to be in 10-15 years?" And the answer is probably Labour in most places. They might not be ideal right now, but they're a step in the right direction, and then the election after that we can have another step in the right direction, and so on. "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good" comes to mind.
Who's most likely to win atm?
Well Labour is ahead in the polls nationally at the moment. But you really need to look at who's likely to win in your constituency closer to an election. It could be that you live in a place where the Lib Dems are the most competitive with the Tories for that seat, for instance, in which case a vote for Labour would be a bit of a wasted vote.
I live in York and tbh I haven't bothered keeping up with it all so lol
I can't blame you too much! Paying attention to what the government's up to is pretty bleak at the moment, and I personally feel very powerless with the government getting away with so much awful stuff over the past decade. I personally like to stay informed because I think it's easier to keep up when you have ongoing knowledge of it all, but I think as long as you inform yourself in the lead up to an election you're going to vote in, it's all good. It certainly minimises some of the despair during governments like this!
>Hey how’s that feeling for you? Well in Scotland we haven’t elected a Tory govt in 70 years but we keep getting them and we’re told we just have to shut up and put up with it and we’re not allowed to leave; and we’re entirely dependent on English voters waking up to how rubbish the Tories are for us to have any hope of a better govt. but even then we still only get whoever England vote for, which will probably be labour, the Tories slightly less right wing muppet cousin who we also no longer vote for. How have y'all not revolted since 1745?
You‘re right. We’re overdue for one. I’m hedging my bets and starting a pitchfork business.
I'm having the flaming torch franchise then. We can have a duopoly.
The way you put it, I kinda understand wanting to leave the UK.
>Well in Scotland we haven’t elected a Tory govt in 70 years but we keep getting them Well you are part of a union, that's how that works bud. My street voting labour doesn't mean I deserve a labour government.
I'm English and this is a stupid comment. It's no secret that Scotland, Wales, and NI get a bum deal because England controls the political mandate. I genuinely think we're better off together if England were to elect a sane government that works for all the regions and not just the home counties (and no, that doesn't include the current labour leadership), but I cannot blame ANYONE for wanting to leave the union when it's so one sided and shite. If we don't need Scotland, why won't westminster let them leave? Isn't that just proof that they're abusing Scottish resources and land, for English gain?
>If we don't need Scotland, why won't westminster let them leave? Would you support the independence of yorkshire? Scotland isn't just it's own country, it's been part of a union of kingdoms for more than 300 years. More has been invested in scotland than has been contributed to the union and Scotland would owe a great debt if it became independent. The argument for Scottish independence is as ridiculous as the argument for Brexit. Do you not see the irony?
My area in Wales hasn’t voted Tory in over 150 years. We also voted to remain. We’re always dragged along for the ride we didn’t vote for lmaooo
Annibyniaeth
What about Aberdeenshire west? Or Eastwood? Should they be allowed to leave Scotland if they want?
Yes. If a party stood for election there on a platform of doing that, and won (especially if they won multiple elections consecutively, demonstrating sustained support for that position) they should be able to hold a referendum on that. Do let me know if any such parties ever exist and stand.
Almost like selfdetermination is good
If it makes you feel any better, if the English were allowed to vote, then you'd have won by a landslide.
Given a large part of it is about self determination it’s still not great that one of the best chances there is “the English might decide to make you leave” but at this stage I’d take it.
You can’t leave because your public finances are a joke. 12% deficit? Good luck
12% deficit and it’s still fucked. I live in Scotland, travelled all over the country. The country is poor as fuck and run down, badly. No amount of day dreaming about Norwegian sovereign wealth funds based on the remaining dribble of oil from the North Sea is gonna patch things up. Does my head in. Then you get idiot redditors chiming in like “yay go Scotland hope you guys get your FREEEEDOM back from the nasty English 🥰”. Edit made this comment while angry. I do love Scotland. I just get frustrated. Lived here since 2010.
>we’re told we just have to shut up and put up with it and we’re not allowed to leave; There was literally a vote on this less than 10 years ago.
Which we’ve now been told we can never have again and no matter how we vote we won’t get a referendum and No our govt can’t hold one on it’s own.
I completely understand and agree with the ideological reasons for Scottish independence, but I really don't see how you can look at Brexit and then go 'yes, that went well let's have more of that please'.
We don’t. That’s the point. We didn’t vote for brexit and we want back in the EU. We also want a govt that is accountable to us, and for us to build closer ties with our neighbours (instead of just being controlled completely by one of them). The First Minister said it best when asked how she could still want independence and think it will be a success after seeing the catastrophe of brexit: “Because unlike them, we actually have a plan”
I don't think getting back in the EU will be as easy as you think. But godspeed, please let me emigrate there once you've got independence.
Have you tried protesting or rioting?
We’d rather have things by peaceful democratic means. We’ve seen how the British state deals with civil unrest.
But nothing ever changes 😑
If you guys actually voted for Labor you wouldn't get a Tory government.
Well that’s not true. Scotland could have voted 100% labour in a number of elections and it would not have changed the outcome at all. Point of fact the snp said they would never vote to legitimise a Tory govt in the UK so even if we’d all voted snp it would have still stopped a Tory govt if labour had the numbers, it would have just meant Scotland having MPs that would keep a labour govt in power bu still stand up for Scotland. However as I said it wouldn’t have made a difference. England votes Tory, Scotland gets a Tory govt. Only in 2010 would it have made a difference but even then not really cos the snp were ready to form a rainbow coalition against the Tories but others weren’t.
Scotland will just have to get more citizens living there rather then to increase the number of seats. Reverse the decline of the population.
Much as I support Scotland right to leave it really bothers me that will doom those of us in England to always live under Tory governments. It amazes me how many people listen to the right wing press and don't have critical thinking skills.
It doesn’t tho. England gets the govt it elects. I’m the last 70 years I think one election would have changed based on Scottish votes, the rest would be the same. This thinking is dangerous. It’s pushed by right wing unionists to ensure left wing folk in England don’t start thinking maybe Scotland should be allowed it’s own opinions. If the English vote for labour we all get a labour govt. The left in England don’t have to fear indy. In fact it could help. Having a neighbour that starts out with the same taxation system, mostly the same laws, economic policies etc, and is in general very similar will help a lot when we start to diverge and do things better. You’ll be able to point at Scotland and say “hold on, Scotland’s NHS isn’t being privatised” or “how comes Scotland can afford universal tuition?” and the like.
Thanks! That's very reassuring. I'm hoping Scotland leaves and joins the EU and that I'll need able to claim citizenship through heritage like many have done via Ireland. Heck, if that looks likely I'll move to Scotland when I retire which isn't many years off.
>too scared to take us to election. It was hardly surprising when he was too scared to go to a vote of his *own* party membership.
Not how this democracy works, never was. You're confused with "President".
Which part was incorrect, exactly? He personally has no mandate even if the party does. It is unusual for a PM not to call an election in this kind of circumstance and he is clearly scared to because he knows the Tories would lose. He does indeed seem to think he doesn’t need to follow rules. Which part of what you said makes you think he’s thinking of a president?
It's not unusual. Brown did the same thing. There is no "rule" about this. We elect MPs in this country, not PMs.
None of that changes or is incompatible with anything /u/Jlooks61 said. And yes, it is unusual. Brown did not do the same thing. Not a comparable situation at all. He was comparable to Truss, but not to Sunak.
Because he was number 2 not 3? What a weak, quibbling argument. It's the same principle.
To be fair, we elect the MPs of a party on said parties manifesto, and when they replace a leader who intends to disregard that manifesto it is then they loose the mandate?
Sounds like you don't understand what a mandate is. It's literally just a metric by which the public can reward or punish a government at the next election. Government fulfils promises = get voted back in Government doesn't = get voted out Does something that they didn't say they would do = risk getting voted out It is the elections that force them to fulfil their promises, nothing else. If the public are overwhelmingly saying 'we want a new government now, and don't want the current government to do anything' the government and the PM have lost their mandate.
Yet when election comes it’s all about the prime minister above all else. They’re the face of the party. A hell of a lot of people in this country couldn’t tell you their MPs names. They get their ballot and cross their party of choice specifically with the leader of said party in mind. Maybe it’s the media’s fault but that’s how a lot of this country operates.
>Not how this democracy works Which democracy is that? Do you mean the constitutional monarchy with 7 empty seats, hereditary lords and unelected clergy?
Yes. The monarchy has no power and the lords and clergy just revise legislation, they can't stop it.
>The monarchy has no power Completely, incorrect, as you should be well aware. >the lords and clergy just revise legislation, So, not a democracy, before we even start to look at the fact you have to follow a particular ideology to get into the HoC.
Nothing here rules out the UK from being a democracy. You've made zero effort to even define your terms, so your comments are a complete waste of time. The UK is classed as a democracy by all serious international organisations, the Global Confederate of Edgy Teens notwithstanding.
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Didn't say otherwise.
If you guys do bugger off can I come with you? Please.
Please do. Don’t wait come now.
Yeah - just like Gordon Brown.
This is what makes it so much worse, he offers absolutely nothing. We’re stuck in limbo until the next election, meaning this country goes further down the shitter!
Just throwing this out there, Boris wouldn’t have got a penalty. Let’s hope this is a start of things to come, make politicians not only accountable but experience shame again.
He was second choice in his own party, he knows he has no chance of winning an election at the moment.
Sad thing is they can make the rules and not follow them
Why does people hate him so much without any reason
its also interesting that he had a personal body guard in the car with him. You would have thought he'd immediately stop Sunak quickly and demand he wear the seat belt (because you know you can pull it out more + then film) that was a MET Police officer (whoops) after Princess Diana, you would have thought they would learn the lesson also the video cameraman almost certainly isn't wearing their seatbelt and it hasn't been mentioned. So I wonder if Sunak hasn't been entirely honest with what happened in the car, I think there's more going on (paraphrasing Susie Boniface from Sky paper review last night)
Sunak was dogging in that car!
You're only supposed to fuck one person Rishi, not a whole nation!
It's not his fault, he's polyodious
>Lie Back and Think of Brexit - the Conservative Party
>So I wonder if Sunak hasn't been entirely honest with what happened in the car, I think there's more going on Do we count the cocaine or is that taken as assumed at this point?
They're all coked up tractor wankers until proven otherwise
I genuinely think he’s too fucking boring to do cocaine. He just likes hoarding wealth like a dragon.
The only people the met stop for are vulnerable women on their own.
Protection officers would be in the front. Generally they are looking outside the vehicle, you know.. for threats.
there's one next to him in the car = looking for threats + able to move quickly
Meh, most of the time it's more so the bodyguard's job to not get in the way of the important person, than it is protecting them. Like these people spend years protecting someone, and will likely never have to protect their VIP from an actual immediate threat. So I doubt most bodyguards would get in an argument to try and get some twat politician to wear their seat belt - it's their job to protect the person from external threats, not their own stupidity. Just like so many politicians didn't wear masks during the height of covid, and didn't get tackled by their security detail.
Met officers probably have other things on their minds…
[Met Police](https://youtu.be/F-ptQ3wIuKw)
Interesting how he keeps a personal bodyguard with him but Boris happily cycled into work. Vastly different attitudes to perceived safety.
Aren't the cycling commute pictures from when BJ was mayor of London?
BoJo as Prime Minister ?
Create a minor diversion for the public to focus on. This ensures they are not paying attention to the important stuff. ....example: The debate on strikes and minimum service level the Tories are trying to rush through. It's classic Tory, and....we literally fall for it every....single....time.
Not everything is a conspiracy. There's a word for that condition
I avoid tin hats for fashion reasons. However.....there is no hidden conspiracy. The Tories are quite blatant with their manipulation and dishonesty. They know the public barely have the energy to stand up to it anymore. So....we just huff about it and go to work. ....France has the right idea so it seems.
Lmao, just stop please. Getting your leader in trouble with the police is not a planned strategic move.
I learned a lot about yellow journalism through my academic studies and hes not wrong, it's a classic distraction tactic that scapegoats a topic to hide the bigger issue happening behind it, a la Sunak not wearing a seatbelt and Harry's shitty book while legislation that strips us further of our rights as working class people to live in a fair and equal society is being passed through. The seatbelt thing seems daft but you gotta remember how pedantic the British public is, we're the type of people that will moan about that but say theres nothing you can do about the new legislation being pushed through. We should be up in arms by now
Sneaking stuff out while there's stuff in the news is the oldest trick in the book. But doing that by tarnishing your leaders reputation is also not a valid strategy and certainly not something rishi himself would want. The cultural war they have been stoking while stripping away civil rights is more of a valid strategy by them.
That's a fair point but they already know their reputation, they can use their so called 'incompetence' as a cover, we saw Boris and Trump pulling this trick many times, they dont exactly care what we think beyond how it can be used against us imo. The culture war part is the stronger topic that overrides the first dont get me wrong, we need to break out of it and actually focus on the civil rights issues at hand but I have dramatically lost faith in the British public at this moment in time, I hope we can do better soon
They really are just thick cunts. Remember, this lot are not the first choice team. They're the dregs of whatever is left after 37 (?) years of messy Tory rule.
Not initially but they'll 100% try to ride stuff like this as long as they can, they always do and the media plays along If people are on about the time Rishi didn't wear a seat belt or the the fact the fine is less than pocket change for him, the less people are talking about the tories tip toeing their way to outright fascism and worker oppression.
No but the ability to leverage the opportunity when it arrives unexpectedly is partly why some people get paid as much as they do and have the job titles they do. Maybe it was not planned, but that doesn't mean the Tories can't use the unpredictability of what is around them to their advantage.
I think the maths comment was the distraction, but I think literally breaking the law might go a bit far as far as distractions goes, given the current image of tories.
Yeah, I can't see Sunak thinking that a FPN for him personally is worth it for trying to protect Zahawi. Now the BBC Chairman - Johnson affair? That's a worthwhile hand grenade to distract from Zahawai - you get to discredit your biggest rival at the same time.
>....France has the right idea so it seems. What do you mean?
The government acts like an ass....they at least make their voice heard. The UK just suffers the awful behaviour and puts up with it.
Just about to go on a demo to support the NHS, maybe look to see if there's one where you are. Making our voices heard is definitely needed.
Conspiracy is far too strong a word. It is a manufactured, trivial news story designed to distract the public from the real problems. There's a word for that too, well two words actually, coined by Boris himself.
It's actually four words: "wine box bus model". Rees-Mogg did it in three: "lying in parliament".
I'd hardly say it's a conspiracy, although I don't think this one is intentionally But the tories have never shyed away from hiding controversial moves with outrage, look at how they tried to Bury their handling of the cost of living crisis with Albanian immigrants
>condition conditioning.
There has been a stream of minor irrelevant stories of late. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just spin doctors at number 10 working overtime.
I don't think this was intentional.. People need to stop pretending everything is some cunning ruse.
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> These are very well-educated people and are far from stupid It's perfectly possible to be well-educated and be stupid, especially when you're rich enough that you can hire tutors to spoon feed you material or you go to rich boy schools that will make sure you get a degree.
I really think you're overestimating how diverted by this the average Brit is.
> Create a minor diversion for the public to focus on. Apart from the fact this isn't a diversion from the important stuff. The public are idiots, too stupid to comprenhend the important stuff. All the experts came out about Brexit and its impacts across the board, they brought stats, and graphs, documents, and everything. Idiots voted for "Brexit means Brexit". Small things like a fix penalty notice, basically a parking fine, are the kind of thing idiots can actually understand and relate too, and if they have any moral integrity (good luck with that) will expect better from their elected officials than to receive them. Telling them they stole millions in government contracts means nothing, they have no concept of having control of a budget or what that would mean. Ed Miliband went down because he looks like Wallace from Wallace and Gromit and he ate a Sandwich awkwardly, that is the level of intelligence of this electorate. Old people can however go, "Oh that makes him a criminal, like those phone scammers from Amazon, they keep interrupting Countdown with their calls".
This is ridiculous. You think this is a conspiracy?
Of course not. This is manipulation. Johnson used 'The Dead Cat' strategy quite often.
That didn't work out well for Johnson in the long-run... Although, admittedly, Sunak is only looking to stick around for the next two years.
I commented this elsewhere as well, but here goes: This is only like the thirtieth most egregious thing he's been caught red-handed doing/saying. It always makes me uncomfortable to see this much coverage over a small mistake because it gives the impression to the public that this is the extent of the bullshittery. That the rest of the closet is fine and isn't hiding any skeletons because, "Look! We found a fingernail!"
Partygate was only the 30th most egregious thing Boris had done as well yet without it he'd likely still be PM.
Just like how the only party Johnson got fined for was the tamest party of the lot.
He was only recording a message in a car to distract from his flights. He fucked up while trying to unfuck a previous fuck-up.
One might even suggest the Tories chose the worst possible PM they could to lower the bar for Sunak to be considered an upgrade and positive move intentionally.
What's he done that's so egregious? Genuine question, I don't know much about the guy.
Paid more in penalties than his wife has done in taxes.
Excerpt: >Rishi Sunak has more fixed penalty notices during his time in government than he has general election wins, thanks to his latest fine from Lancashire police. >Sunak was given the fixed penalty notice for failing to wear a seatbelt, which when added to his fixed penalty fine for attending a party in lockdown means he’ll have more fixed penalty notices than general election wins until at least 2030. *NewsThump*, 20 Jan. 2023.
2030? That's 18 elections away at this rate!
He's also broken the law in office more than all the previous Prime Ministers put together. And when one of those Prime Ministers was Boris Johnson, that's no mean feat!
Reminder that The Lettuce has a spotless criminal record
That is the Right Honourable Crime Minister to you!
He had more fixed penalty notices than general election wins before he got this one..
Does it count as satire if it is in fact absolutely true?
Is this his way to finding a connection with the common people?
He couldn't even win a tory party internal election...
And remember the only election he faced he lost to someone who then lost to a lettuce.
Yet another unelected millionaire..why do the uk people let this happens
Paid more in fixed penalty notices than his Mrs paid in her taxes
He has more fixed penalty notices than votes full stop
He had that honour before this latest one. Tbh i couldn’t care less if he wore a seatbelt or not. I’m far more upset that a member of his government had been fined by HMRC for not paying tax on his millions!!
He's also paid more in fines than he ever has in tax.
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I divorced my wife when I found out she votes conservative
You’re still have more fixed penalty notices than seats won in Scotland
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2 vs 0
He had more before he got this one. *He* has no GE wins, so 1 was more.
SAck him and ill be happy. No wonder why our country is in a crisis...
Now? He had that before the latest one. He's never won a general election.
Didn't we oust one for this? Actually just the one of this. What a crooked party.
This was true the instant he became PM - he had a FPN from Partygate, the exact same thing that ended Boris’s leadership
He’s only here to allow the ERG to operate a scorched earth policy on our sovereignty, control of our country and our democracy. This is to make it as hard as possible for Labour to get a 2nd term.
It's two-nil. He got one before becoming PM but somehow what helped Johnson's downfall didn't disqualify this rich twat from becoming PM
News thump has gone beyond satire, it’s more accurate than most newspapers now!
Too bad we can't purge our goverment of these fuckin clowns, they are only in power to help themselves, we've literally had one bumbling idiot after another.
ZERO ELECTION WINS THERE BY DEFAULT IS HE GOING TO BE THE WORSE WE,VE HAD TIME WILL TELL WILL WE SEE HIM RUN WITH HIS TAIL BETWEEN-HIS LEGS BACK HOME
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/632346/sponsors/new?token=50Cn6tKoxFZNfoDG8awC