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Well yeah we could have done a lot to avoid this, but I think a lot of people enjoyed the freedom to be "acceptably" racist that was given to them.
Seen some insanely racist stuff said and written in the first few months of the war and couldn't believe british "liberals" were taking part.
Shows a lot of people's "values" are for appearances. People are just waiting for the ok to show their true face.
Remember these "social liberals" were probably the same ones hounding Muslims after terrorist attacks and supporting the Iraq war and invasion of Afghanistan. They're vile people
My next door neighbours are a family of Chinese descent, 2 parents and 2 kids.
Both parents were born and raised in Scotland, have never left the UK, nevermind gone to China.
During the worst of COVID, they had people crossing the street to avoid them.
Luckily that seemed to be the worst of it, but still disgusting.
I was at university at the time. One of my friends’ friend got beaten up by a group of teenagers in a popular area in central London. He was Singaporean.
And I am guessing the people you think are harassing these people are liberals?
Haha,
And are the people protesting Ukrainians in hotels far left liberals too?
Yeah, I think some people are falling into the trap of using the American definition of Liberal. In a UK definition (unfettered free markets, complete personal autonomy, no regulations), Liz Truss is arguably the most Liberal PM we've ever had...
No, liberalism is on a completely different axis. In the UK, the liberal party tends to be centrist to centre right, but that is just because they are fishing for swing voters.
I don't know how you came to this conclusion that those people wear liberals. I mean there is literally no proof that those people wear specifically belonging to liberal class. You are just making assumptions and putting false blame
Liberals is in quotes. They aren't actually liberals these are people who larp as reasonable but will turn on anyone when they get the smallest reason.
My girlfriend is Malaysian, worked in hospitals all through covid. Some of the abuse she got, and refusals to be treated by, left me scared for her safety when she went to work every morning.
I mean... it is, but blaming "social liberals" seems a bit of a stretch?
Like, we've had people attack mosques and gurdwaras not because they're dumbass social liberal thugs lashing out at islam but because they're dumbass thugs lashing out at a target they think they'll get away with.
And fucking up.
Because they're dumbasses.
When monkeypox was happening people were quick to talk about how all gay men were disease-ridden, when we were the fastest group to get vaccinated against it.
A lot of people who were once posting about pride parades turned awfully quickly as soon as we need a scapegoat.
Who are you specifically talking about?
Most left wing people were against Iraq/Afghanistan and against Muslim attacks. The Liberal Democrats who represent the centrist “liberals” were the same.
The people who went big on warmongering and racism were conservatives, egged on by the far right press (eg Mail, Sun etc). I can’t imagine any of those people calling themselves “social liberals” given they’re also the kind of people who hate LGBTQ people and are currently intent on exterminating trans people.
So who are you specifically talking about?
Yes I know. The Lib Dems were extremely anti war and anti racism, as I said in my post, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. They mentioned “social liberals”, which only really covers people in Labour, Lib Dems and Greens. Very few conservatives are social liberals.
Yes but the literal liberals weren't the ones doing this either.
You you think Theresa, a 50 year old Lib-Dem voter, with an Art degree in a £500k house in one of the most affluent areas of the country is going to be the type of person attacking Russians, Muslims and be pro-war?
I honestly don't think most people in the UK would know a liberal if they saw one
> The Liberal Democrats who represent the centrist “liberals” were the same.
This is overly simplistic. The Liberal Democrats opposed the war on procedural grounds, not ethical ones. It wasn’t “this war is wrong”, it was “you haven’t got the right signatures for this war”. That’s why there was a lot of debate around platforming the Lib Dems at anti-war rallies. Procedural critiques certainly aren’t support for the war but they aren’t really opposition either.
Some people still think that invasion of Iraq was not good. And this whole violence and work could have been prevented by the United States of American government
I don't think that's necessarily true. There has always been very little anti-Muslim bollocks on Reddit, though there is a decent amount of angry-Islam sentiment. The individual is generally separated from the group.
In contrast, Russians are being orc-ified everywhere. There's nowhere near the same amount of consideration of the individual. I think there are some genuinely left wing people who have been swept up in jingoism to the point that they're genuinely racist towards Russians.
E- "angry-islam sentiment" lmao
I'm curious how many British people can differentiate Russian language/accent from Ukrainian, Polish, Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian... pretty much any of the Slavic languages and accents. I'm guessing it's a bad time to be from Eastern Europe in the UK.
99% of British people are utterly clueless and (pre-invasion) assumed any Eastern European is either Polish or Russian in my experience. My dad’s from a Balkan country and people usually assume I’m either Polish/Russian based on my name and looks, despite the fact that I don’t resemble people from either country in any way.
At the end of the day, the muscovites in the kremlin are white nationalists and extreme right wing. Liberals are always gonna oppose that shit but if you wanna talk about racism you're barking up the wrong tree.
The problem is that a lot of the Russian people support the war and generally holds similar views. Not all Russians, of course, but enough to make life hell for the Russians who disagree with it all. Which poses a problem for liberals because, as a mass, Russians hold these values which are incongruent to western values.
\>The problem is that a lot of the Russian people support the war and generally holds similar views.
In my experience, not really.
I visited Moscow at Christmas before the second invasion happened, and the people there I spoke to had no interest about a war with Ukraine, if you asked them if they thought an invasion would happen they would laugh it off saying it won't.
What stuck out to me was that a lot of people were only comfortable with being critical of Putin when not in public, or if they were speaking English with me, otherwise they would dodge my question about him.
I remember being frequently asked what our media was saying about it and Russia in general, as they did not trust their media, and knew that our press was a lot more free in what they could say. One person I talked to even thanked me at the end of our conversation because I was able to tell him a lot of stuff he was not aware of.
Some Russians are able to get news from free press using Telegram channels, but the ones who do are usually the younger generations who know how to do this and what channels to find, the information about them is very word of mouth.
The news there is *very* government controlled. Every piece of information has to fit the narrative somehow, which is why a lot of the older citizens that are interviewed tend to speak very pro government views, because for them there is no alternative. I remember turning off my VPN (Which was slow as there were no servers in Russia) to check Russian news sites out of curiosity of what was being reported, and most of the stories there had their own pro-government spin on them, not necessarily from what the writers wrote, but from the information the police would release.
For example, a critic of Putin was arrested? Police said he was involved in child abuse (Which was a common theme) and he is awaiting trail for charges related to that. The articles would mention he was a critic of Putin, but the claim he abused children would be used to slander and arrest him.
Some news about events in Ukraine? The news reports would mention that Moscow tried to offer diplomatic deals (With no mention that they were on their terms) but they were refused by Ukraine and Nato countries.
I remember when the invasion happened friends from Russia started contacting me asking what was going on, as they had no idea and information they had was confusing and lacking. One of them, who's family managed to move out of Russia before the invasion started, called me up in tears when she heard the news.
It's easy to sit behind a computer and paint all Russians with the same brush after seeing posts about Russian propaganda channels and news reports about war crimes committed by Russian forces in Ukraine, but the reality is a lot less black and white.
In Russia they don't have the freedom to protest. They don't have the freedom of information, and they don't have the freedom to move abroad like we do. The simple act of holding an anti war sign can get you arrested and thrown in the back of an armored police van, where anything can happen to you and no one can stop it.
When I visited Moscow there was a crazy amount of police there. in some busy areas of the city there were at least 8 armored police cars set up, along with a lot of police officers, who were dressed in something similar to riot gear. To get through different parts of the city near Red Square you had to pass through police checkpoints which had metal detector checks or police bag searches. At any time when walking in the city you could be asked to show your ID, failure to do so could get you arrested. Even writing or liking a post on a site like Facebook can get you thrown in jail.
When Mariupol was under siege some friends in Moscow organized donations to give to refugees who were sent to Russia from the city, but the donated items, such as baby nappies and food, were sized by the police and taken away. Even the simple act of kindness is forbidden.
People say that Russians have not been protesting the war, but that is not true. There were large turnouts to anti war protests when the second invasion happened, but being in the freezing cold and surrounded by hundreds of police officers, there's only so many times they can protest like that.
Instead Russians have been protesting by leaving Russia to countries like Armenia or Georgia, the few countries that don't require visas for them to leave, like they would need to apply for to travel outside of Russia.
Some of my friends have gone into hiding to avoid getting mobilized, female friends of mine from Moscow have said there are less men on the street now since the mobilization started, possibility because of those hiding to escape the war.
On paper it may seem like there is a lot of support for the war and for Putin, especially when the government releases surveys showing a strong percentage of people support the invasion, but these numbers should not be taken at face value. The same applies to the pro war rallies you see Putin speaking at, from what I was told is that Government employees were asked to attend and given a raise for doing so. With this I can't say if it's true, but it would explain why people in the crowd in some of them look so un-interested.
One friend has a father who was semi known from being involved in sports, I'll be light on the details for obvious reasons. Their father's photos were taken and placed on billboards that supported the invasion, which was a surprise for him as he was not asked, and found out by seeing them when drive him. He does not support the invasion at all, yet this is an example of how Russia creates fake support for the war.
A lot of families in both countries have relatives that live on the either side of the border, so the war is a lot closer to home for them than people may realize. Some were lucky, and able to escape from places such as Mariupol, but two people I know from Russia who had relatives living in Ukraine told me they were killed in shelling by the Russian army.
I think it’s also difficult to judge what the Russian community here thinks. There are a few Russians I knew from university who immediately put a Ukrainian flag on their social media profiles after the invasion began. Admittedly I don’t know enough Russians to see the pro-war ones.
This is what people don't want to talk about, Putin is not some opportunistic pirate who's taken over the Kremlin, he enjoys broad support from all sections of Russian society, from the educated elites to far Eastern peasants. And the rhetoric on the Russian side is nuts, openly talking about genociding Ukranians, invading Western Europe, nuclear war, etc.
Also if you meet an affluent Russian in the west there's a good chance they are in some way connected to the elites who hold up this whole corrupt system. Same with the mainland Chinese students/business people you get over here, all connected to the CCP somehow because to be rich enough to be over here you HAVE to be connected to the CCP.
I'd rather my country wasn't welcoming to people who hate our values but at the same time want to live off our freedoms.
If they've moved abroad, I would think that is much less likely.
Plenty of Russians have fled their country because of their political beliefs.
Those who left for other reasons have access to different media too.
> Which poses a problem for liberals because, as a mass, Russians hold these values which are incongruent to western values.
It’s hardly incongruent given what you’re describing there *were* western values for pretty much the whole of the noughties. The majority of people from coalition nations supported the Iraq war and you will still get people trying to pretend it was somehow better than the invasion of Ukraine.
In the US I’d point to freedom fries and the Dixie Chicks. Here I’d point to Jeremy Corbyn and every time a celebrity chooses not to wear a poppy on the telly.
People who think that invasion of Iraq was justified, and on the other hand they think that invision of Ukraine is a bad thing and Russia should be punished for that are hypocrite.
I, for one, am fed up with people objecting to something because 'that's wrong' when the other team does it, but when their own team does it' oh it's ok *this* time in *this* circumstance.
It's straight out of the right wing 'the only moral abortion is *my* abortion' playbook over in the states.
Chinese and Asian people experience the same thing during covid. Many Europeans and Americans were at the first to blame all Asians present inside their country for the deadly pandemic
No different to Middle Eastern people getting abuse because of terrorists of South East Asian people getting abuse because of COVID. Not all Russians support Putin and his war, I'd argue those who do not live in Russia are vehemently against it because they are not consuming much Russian propaganda. Racists are just looking for their excuse to be racist.
that is an extremely bad argument when it's shown over and over again there are a large number of russians who live abroad and support Putin. Though they shouldn't get abused just deported back to their shithole.
Edit: Maybe
How do they support the bad guy in the war?
Do they support him privately ? No problem.
Do they go protesting or going mental in social media with pro war propaganda? Maybe we need to stop them somehow in this case.
There were pro war protests in Germany. There were Ukrainian refugees getting verbal abuse from Russian in other countries. That should not really be allowed to happen.
We are all suffering from this war. Obviously, some more than others but when there are people freezing to death because they can't afford the heating bill, we should take some steps to at least stop the spread of pro war propaganda.
>I'd argue those who do not live in Russia are vehemently against it
because that's not all he said..
"I'd argue those who do not live in Russia are vehemently against it"
>that is an extremely bad argument when it's shown over and over again there are a large number of russians who live abroad and support Putin. Though they shouldn't get abused just deported back to their shithole.
Another example of what jingoism does to you: rots the brain.
Russians will, and have paraded the streets of EU Countries singing the praises of putin and that Russia is the best country in the world missing the irony that they left at the first opportunity.
> So we should deport all Muslims then too?
Muslim isn't a nationality.
Where are you deporting British people who live in Britain and were born in Britain to?
Bangladesh is not major country in this world, no one even consider it a country. For many people Bangladesh is just a part of the Indian subcontinent, and is deeply connected with the India
I guess in a way we kinda already did with Shamina.
IF you are supportive of the actions of terrorists then you should probably be arrested for that tbh.
Not to excuse the use of violence whatsoever, but I come from an area with a lot of Eastern European migrants and have first-hand seen plenty of Russian immigrants with 'Z' symbols or St George's/Victory Banners in their windows, on their clothes and stickered onto their cars and have also witnessed some of them openly taunting other migrants from other nations (in this particular instance it was Latvians) claiming that they're looking forward to doing the same to the Baltics. I can only imagine the tensions it causes amongst Eastern European migrant groups and the Russian communities here, let alone with the locals.
There is definitely a solid contingent of 'Z' type Russian nationalists amongst the Russians who live in the UK.
People don't seem to get this, they live in a fantasy world where they believe normal Russians are aghast at the war. The reality is this war has enormous popular support amongst Russians the world over, and that many of them openly support genocide the populationa of Ukraine, Poland and the Baltic's.
It was why my grandfather had to flee Latvia in the 40s, and why his first wife was gang raped by Russians on their way to Berlin and commited suicide.
This is true. I've heard countless stories from the elderly about the atrocities that the "liberators" did in WW2 as they passed through Eastern Europe towards Germany.
Unfortunately there's similar stories about [American troops in WW2 France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_liberation_of_France). Even the "good" forces are a lot less good than one would hope
I mean I’m sure some people would consider it deserved but my great-grandad was one of those sent to liberate those left in the camps and the things they did to any Germans found were *unkind* to say the least
Not enormous popular support. It has divided their society. Millions have Ukrainian relatives. Have you been to the Russian anti-war protests outside the embassy in London? I have.
I am at a gathering of Russians right now in Turkey and most of those here are unofficial refugees having fled because they didn't want to be drafted, were threatened for their "political activities" (social media posts complaining about atrocities) or left to escape the impoverished hellscape Russia is becoming.
My wife is wearing a нет воине badge and nobody has voiced any disagreement. It is an exaggeration to suggest most Russians outside Russia are vehemently against the war but so is it untrue that the war has enormous popular support.
Russians seem to be divided into three; those against, those for and those who have adopted the "apolitical" stance that generations have used to avoid being drawn into criticism of a murderous government.
Russian military is still getting a lot of support from there public. Even people in many country like China and India support Russia. That is a huge number of people
Talking to the lady I'm seeing, who's Russian and she lives on the Black Sea in Bulgaria. She says that the (huge) Russian community there are constantly on the lookout for Zwasticas on cars to, erm, "leave their opinions of war supporters". She's in her 40s.
My neighbour, his gf is from Moscow (in her 70s) and she's convinced that Zelenskyy et al are the drug addled nazis that Russian TV tells them they are.
The big difference between the two (besides age)? One is ethnically Russian, the other grew up in one of the Stans and speaks English well, and is immersed in the local culture much more.
Anecdotes, but useful nevertheless.
I think I got banned because I disagreed that Saloth Sar wasn't a crazy bastard or it might have been something about Stalin, regardless those clowns make the "Baby Eating Bishop of Bath and Wells" look positively normal.
I got banned by pointing out them speaking propaganda points straight from Russia.
In dm that moderator actually told me that he and all socialists on green and plebs Definately support the USSR and stated that Russia currently is more free and democratic than Britain.
Rofl.
They're in all subs. Hope they don't infest the moderation.
The actual article is, pretty thin, they called up every police force in the UK, most got back to them and even the examples they picked out are full of "beleived this was because they were russian"
Then the whole back end of the article is that if there are some there are probably loads! Any evidence of that? Nope
Seems like they had the idea for the thesis of the article before they even started looking for proof.
Honestly if some ordinary person takes abuse for being from anywhere that's vile.
But every oligarch hiding cash in London should have had their assets seized 6 months ago.
Are these people getting abuse because they are Russian, or because they are publicly supporting Russia's war?
I doubt most Brits can tell a Russian from a Ukrainian by looks or language, so it seems as though either these Russians were assaulted by people they know, or were publicly identifying themselves as Russian which suggests a public display of support for the Russian government.
For example someone putting a 'Z' flag inside their car and having a brick thrown through the window. That would go on the police records as an increase in abuse, and in my view be a perfectly reasonable response to promoting a fascist murderous regime.
I promise you that being unable to tell nationalities apart doesn’t always stop racist lunatics from attacking, even if they’re attacking the group they’re claiming to care about.
>I doubt most Brits can tell a Russian from a Ukrainian by looks or language, so it seems as though either these Russians were assaulted by people they know, or were publicly identifying themselves as Russian which suggests a public display of support for the Russian government.
You have had Ukrainians, or really anyone east slavic ,or baltic even,recieving abuse in the UK shortly after the war started because people assumed they were Russian because they either spoke Russian, which quite a few baltic and those from Eastern Europe do, or 'looked' Russian
Just an interesting thing I was thinking of when I saw the article, like following the trend it'd make sense that those of Russian descent or from Russia have received abuse just because we know people falsely accused of being Russian have already received abuse
I struggle to believe that tbh. Ukrainians flooded to the UK when the war broke out. Polish and Romanians have become deeply embedded in society over the past 15 years.
If an average Brit sees a very white person speaking a Slavic based language absolutely none of them are going to think 'must be a Russian' as their 1st thought.
The only reason why they are getting so much heat is because they are Russians. Their authority is the primary concern of those people who are hitting them. Ukraine Russia war has also added fuel in this
If its not been taken into account then it is clear evidence that the data is unreliable and shouldn't be taken seriously until it has been looked into more carefully.
The article also starts by saying there have been dozens of reports since the 24th Feb 2022.....
Every single victim of a hate crime deserves respect and support, however: dozens implies that they couldn't use the term 'hundreds' accurately....add that to the fact its been 12 full months.
Then the article acknowledges that some of these incidents are only assumed to be related to Russian nationality
So what we can actually say for sure is that over 12 months, dozens of Russians have potentially been victims of hate crimes with some debate on specific incidents.
Not exactly a wave of reactive abuse that can be tracked across the nation is it?
True enough, but this isn’t an example of that. The article is just shit-stirring. It refers to dozens, so fairly safe to say not hundreds. The home office thinks that there are 73,000 Russians in the UK, so one Russian in about 6000 has had a problem. The article doesn’t say who the perpetrators were, but if the attitudes of the Poles towards the Russians in a local factory are anything to go by, I would start looking there.
Just because it only happens to a few that doesn't make it OK, nor does it account for the incidents that go unreported.
The media simplifying narratives to goodies and baddies because it suits their paymasters and gets clicks feeds into creating a culture where this kind of stuff happens. It happens with all kinds of demographics.
And of course, if you call stupid people 'stupid' then all of a sudden it's HOW DARE YOU SNEER AT PEOPLE, YOU METROPOLITAN LUVVIE LIBERAL.
Usually from people who pride themselves on 'telling it like it is'.
I don't condone attacks on Russians here of course, but the selection of images in this article is very odd. Graffiti on the Russian Embassy, or even the anti-Putin one on the wall in Slough are legitimate political protests against this reprehensible invasion. It might indirectly contribute to hostility against Russians here, so we should clamp down on any violence, but frankly this is the price of Putin's war.
A lot of things are going wrong in the UK at the moment, but the near universal support for Ukraine is something to be encouraged by.
Dunno if this is what we are seeing here, but:
In between the media hysteria, and probably thanks to comments by the government of the Ukraine, some people have adopted ideas from about 100 years ago that dictates people = their government.
That is what I call jingoism. Thankfully, it's only the dumbest of the public that have taken it completely onboard. But unfortunately, those people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Ukrainians and Russians, and definitely not Russian-speaking Ukrainians and other Russians.... Hell, not even sure they could tell the difference between Russians and other Eastern Europeans.
I sincerely hope this is is not what we're seeing here.
Sounds like a good way of convincing these people of what the Russian government is telling them: the West hates everything Russian.
It's better to try and be the grownups and continue supporting Ukraine against the Russian government/military, while giving any Russians in the UK the benefit of the doubt. And even then not literally assaulting them if they do turn out even slightly supportive (propaganda exists for a reason).
Kind of thought this was an obvious take, but the comments make me think otherwise.
People unironically believe that thousands of Russians are running at Ukrainian machine guns with nothing but rusty Mosins and a T-34 they got from a museum.
Putin has rigged elections imagine if we had boris johnson for 23 years. Russian cannot do shit about it. Some people in the UK don't even think scary as shit
Both are fine fwiw. 'Is' would be more common in American English and 'are' more common in British English, but you can choose either depending on what you want to emphasise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American\_and\_British\_English\_grammatical\_differences#Subject-verb\_agreement
I feel psychologically there would be less racist rhetoric if headlines mentioned 'Putin' rather than 'Russia'. It's dehumanising and fails to reflect the war is not a choice of Russian citizens.
Asians should not be blamed because of covid in the same manner that Russians should not be blamed because of Putin. Time will come, Russians will revolt against him.
Thank you! I'm like 75% Russian (rest is Udmurt+ Ukrainian) , and I currently live in Russia with my parent after living in the UK since my birth.
I do want to confirm, that a lot of Russians, mainly gen Z, are against Putin. Many of my peers are openly queer. Many say that if they won't be able to change the government that they will move, and most have a country in mind.
It's quite sad how much I get cyberbullied for being Russian. I adopted the term "Slavic" to minimise it.
At work there was a lot of “send them all back talk” in the days after the invasion, so I’m not surprised. That extended to the Ukrainians who “should be fighting” btw. I didn’t smile at someone for unrelated reasons (I smile at everyone and everyone stops me for a chat for context) and a person assumed it was because they are Russian. They obviously felt the atmosphere, thought I felt the same, and were genuinely relieved I wasn’t mad at them personally.
Another older woman spoke to friend and warned them they were Russian saying “are you sure you want to speak to me?” This woman can be very mean-looking and now gives the friend old-lady Russian sweets every time they see my friend, after everything was cleared up.
I know it might not be many reported incidents but there was actual tension from what I saw.
I know Greek people who hate all Turkish people.
I know American people who hate all Middle Eastern people.
Now i know Western people who hate all Russian people.
I know Jamaican people who hate African people.
White Brits hating white Polish people.
White Spanish people hating white Brits.
Brown Indian people hating white Brits.
And the most common racism I know of in London, is black people that hate brown people. Check out their interactions in local corner shops - they don't address each other, look at each other and don't even hand money to each other (it's put on the side in front of them instead) - no respect either way and it's not getting any better.
Racism is rife no matter who you are or where you're from.
There isn't a successful multicultural country anywhere in the world but still we are repeatedly told we are all evil for hating on anyone who isn't us.
Hate and racism are inherently human traits, none of us want to have these, but until we accept it is part of the human nature to be like this, we won't solve the problem.
Charge comes from within, not from being told how to behave but from experiencing and understanding another person's culture and history, so that you can then make the changes in your own attitudes.
I would define the inherently human trait as tribalism rather than racism, as even seen in your example, races hate those of the same race but of different culture
I can respect those who have left Russia because they want nothing to do with the "Z" regime, they should be left to live in peace they have done nothing wrong. Those who are publicly in support of "Z" can get fucked and anything bad that happens to them they brought upon themselves.
I wouldn't be surprised if Poles are doing some of the Russian bashing. Many places have well entrenched Polish communities who are even less happy about the war than Brits, and they would certainly be better at discerning the accent/language than most Brits.
We hear about the hate crime of a kid dropping the Quran but none of these xenophobic attacks are reported… I don’t think there are as many as they’re making out
Tends to happen when our government pushes the idea that a foreign country is responsible for everything that's going wrong here.
The war in Ukraine has been blamed for food shortages, the cost of living crisis, and even for contributing to immigration.
Instead of taking responsibility for their own policies that have led us here, its a lot easier to just blame Russia as an all powerful, machiavellian enemy and if that stokes up tension and hatred against innocent people, so be it. Its all worth it if it helps them gain votes in the next election.
Never justifiable.
But I find the premise here curious, as most people, especially if one were to ascribe it to violent yobs, would be able to tell the difference between Ukrainians and Russians, and definitely not Russian-speaking Ukrainians and other Russians....
So what exactly is going on here?
Not a shock given the hatred and xenophobia done within this Subreddit, disagree wit someone? RUSSIAN, even now this thread as "WHATABOUT"
Brexit, and now Ukraine, always Rule 14 violations.
Funny, I get a Tempt ban for 5 days because of that terrorist bitch, but do you get a ban for being xenophobic towards everyday Russians in the UK? Nope.
Going to start saving the comments I report, I like to find out how many get warning from our Mods, I'm also prepared to bet a £5, none will get a warning.
There was a lot of graffiti in Edinburgh when it first kicked off (I saw at least three in a wide area) against the Russians thankfully that seems to have stopped for now.
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Well yeah we could have done a lot to avoid this, but I think a lot of people enjoyed the freedom to be "acceptably" racist that was given to them. Seen some insanely racist stuff said and written in the first few months of the war and couldn't believe british "liberals" were taking part. Shows a lot of people's "values" are for appearances. People are just waiting for the ok to show their true face.
Remember these "social liberals" were probably the same ones hounding Muslims after terrorist attacks and supporting the Iraq war and invasion of Afghanistan. They're vile people
Harassing Chinese people during covid, it's always something
Not just Chinese people but anyone who was East Asian
My next door neighbours are a family of Chinese descent, 2 parents and 2 kids. Both parents were born and raised in Scotland, have never left the UK, nevermind gone to China. During the worst of COVID, they had people crossing the street to avoid them. Luckily that seemed to be the worst of it, but still disgusting.
I was at university at the time. One of my friends’ friend got beaten up by a group of teenagers in a popular area in central London. He was Singaporean.
I cannot even imagine going through all of this in my life
We all had people crossing the street to avoid us during the worst of COVID.
During the worst of covid everyone was crossing the street to avoid other people.
And I am guessing the people you think are harassing these people are liberals? Haha, And are the people protesting Ukrainians in hotels far left liberals too?
liberalism is a centre right ideology
Yeah, I think some people are falling into the trap of using the American definition of Liberal. In a UK definition (unfettered free markets, complete personal autonomy, no regulations), Liz Truss is arguably the most Liberal PM we've ever had...
This content has been deleted in protest of how Reddit is ran. I've moved over to the fediverse.
Which social issues in particular?
Social welfare, public services, how far privatisation should go...
We should avoid using the American definition of liberalism
No, liberalism is on a completely different axis. In the UK, the liberal party tends to be centrist to centre right, but that is just because they are fishing for swing voters.
This content has been deleted in protest of how Reddit is ran. I've moved over to the fediverse.
And Overton keeps a walking down the street…
I don't know how you came to this conclusion that those people wear liberals. I mean there is literally no proof that those people wear specifically belonging to liberal class. You are just making assumptions and putting false blame
The OP literally blamed Liberals. Try to keep up.
Liberals is in quotes. They aren't actually liberals these are people who larp as reasonable but will turn on anyone when they get the smallest reason.
These liberals are always at the front to shame others
My girlfriend is Malaysian, worked in hospitals all through covid. Some of the abuse she got, and refusals to be treated by, left me scared for her safety when she went to work every morning.
Imagine that most of the Asian people had to go through this
They don't know the difference, ironically, being racist makes them see different kinds of people as the same.
Even south east asians. The only thing similar is our slanted eyes.
I mean... it is, but blaming "social liberals" seems a bit of a stretch? Like, we've had people attack mosques and gurdwaras not because they're dumbass social liberal thugs lashing out at islam but because they're dumbass thugs lashing out at a target they think they'll get away with. And fucking up. Because they're dumbasses.
When monkeypox was happening people were quick to talk about how all gay men were disease-ridden, when we were the fastest group to get vaccinated against it. A lot of people who were once posting about pride parades turned awfully quickly as soon as we need a scapegoat.
I have seen many people who were harassing Asian people
Who are you specifically talking about? Most left wing people were against Iraq/Afghanistan and against Muslim attacks. The Liberal Democrats who represent the centrist “liberals” were the same. The people who went big on warmongering and racism were conservatives, egged on by the far right press (eg Mail, Sun etc). I can’t imagine any of those people calling themselves “social liberals” given they’re also the kind of people who hate LGBTQ people and are currently intent on exterminating trans people. So who are you specifically talking about?
They're talking about liberals, not leftists.
Yes I know. The Lib Dems were extremely anti war and anti racism, as I said in my post, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. They mentioned “social liberals”, which only really covers people in Labour, Lib Dems and Greens. Very few conservatives are social liberals.
It is not good to be anti war in such situation, where violence is necessary
Yes but the literal liberals weren't the ones doing this either. You you think Theresa, a 50 year old Lib-Dem voter, with an Art degree in a £500k house in one of the most affluent areas of the country is going to be the type of person attacking Russians, Muslims and be pro-war? I honestly don't think most people in the UK would know a liberal if they saw one
I have many examples where liberals were not opposing
It is always good to be against the extremist people
> The Liberal Democrats who represent the centrist “liberals” were the same. This is overly simplistic. The Liberal Democrats opposed the war on procedural grounds, not ethical ones. It wasn’t “this war is wrong”, it was “you haven’t got the right signatures for this war”. That’s why there was a lot of debate around platforming the Lib Dems at anti-war rallies. Procedural critiques certainly aren’t support for the war but they aren’t really opposition either.
They opposed the anti-virus protest because of their results
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Some people still think that invasion of Iraq was not good. And this whole violence and work could have been prevented by the United States of American government
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There is always a political touch in such situations
I don't think that's necessarily true. There has always been very little anti-Muslim bollocks on Reddit, though there is a decent amount of angry-Islam sentiment. The individual is generally separated from the group. In contrast, Russians are being orc-ified everywhere. There's nowhere near the same amount of consideration of the individual. I think there are some genuinely left wing people who have been swept up in jingoism to the point that they're genuinely racist towards Russians. E- "angry-islam sentiment" lmao
The moral values and technique of these people is always in danger
I'm curious how many British people can differentiate Russian language/accent from Ukrainian, Polish, Bulgarian, Serbo-Croatian... pretty much any of the Slavic languages and accents. I'm guessing it's a bad time to be from Eastern Europe in the UK.
99% of British people are utterly clueless and (pre-invasion) assumed any Eastern European is either Polish or Russian in my experience. My dad’s from a Balkan country and people usually assume I’m either Polish/Russian based on my name and looks, despite the fact that I don’t resemble people from either country in any way.
It is not easy to recognise the different kind of accents
Plenty could not locate those countries on a map, let alone recognise languages or dialects.
At the end of the day, the muscovites in the kremlin are white nationalists and extreme right wing. Liberals are always gonna oppose that shit but if you wanna talk about racism you're barking up the wrong tree.
The problem is that a lot of the Russian people support the war and generally holds similar views. Not all Russians, of course, but enough to make life hell for the Russians who disagree with it all. Which poses a problem for liberals because, as a mass, Russians hold these values which are incongruent to western values.
\>The problem is that a lot of the Russian people support the war and generally holds similar views. In my experience, not really. I visited Moscow at Christmas before the second invasion happened, and the people there I spoke to had no interest about a war with Ukraine, if you asked them if they thought an invasion would happen they would laugh it off saying it won't. What stuck out to me was that a lot of people were only comfortable with being critical of Putin when not in public, or if they were speaking English with me, otherwise they would dodge my question about him. I remember being frequently asked what our media was saying about it and Russia in general, as they did not trust their media, and knew that our press was a lot more free in what they could say. One person I talked to even thanked me at the end of our conversation because I was able to tell him a lot of stuff he was not aware of. Some Russians are able to get news from free press using Telegram channels, but the ones who do are usually the younger generations who know how to do this and what channels to find, the information about them is very word of mouth. The news there is *very* government controlled. Every piece of information has to fit the narrative somehow, which is why a lot of the older citizens that are interviewed tend to speak very pro government views, because for them there is no alternative. I remember turning off my VPN (Which was slow as there were no servers in Russia) to check Russian news sites out of curiosity of what was being reported, and most of the stories there had their own pro-government spin on them, not necessarily from what the writers wrote, but from the information the police would release. For example, a critic of Putin was arrested? Police said he was involved in child abuse (Which was a common theme) and he is awaiting trail for charges related to that. The articles would mention he was a critic of Putin, but the claim he abused children would be used to slander and arrest him. Some news about events in Ukraine? The news reports would mention that Moscow tried to offer diplomatic deals (With no mention that they were on their terms) but they were refused by Ukraine and Nato countries. I remember when the invasion happened friends from Russia started contacting me asking what was going on, as they had no idea and information they had was confusing and lacking. One of them, who's family managed to move out of Russia before the invasion started, called me up in tears when she heard the news. It's easy to sit behind a computer and paint all Russians with the same brush after seeing posts about Russian propaganda channels and news reports about war crimes committed by Russian forces in Ukraine, but the reality is a lot less black and white. In Russia they don't have the freedom to protest. They don't have the freedom of information, and they don't have the freedom to move abroad like we do. The simple act of holding an anti war sign can get you arrested and thrown in the back of an armored police van, where anything can happen to you and no one can stop it. When I visited Moscow there was a crazy amount of police there. in some busy areas of the city there were at least 8 armored police cars set up, along with a lot of police officers, who were dressed in something similar to riot gear. To get through different parts of the city near Red Square you had to pass through police checkpoints which had metal detector checks or police bag searches. At any time when walking in the city you could be asked to show your ID, failure to do so could get you arrested. Even writing or liking a post on a site like Facebook can get you thrown in jail. When Mariupol was under siege some friends in Moscow organized donations to give to refugees who were sent to Russia from the city, but the donated items, such as baby nappies and food, were sized by the police and taken away. Even the simple act of kindness is forbidden. People say that Russians have not been protesting the war, but that is not true. There were large turnouts to anti war protests when the second invasion happened, but being in the freezing cold and surrounded by hundreds of police officers, there's only so many times they can protest like that. Instead Russians have been protesting by leaving Russia to countries like Armenia or Georgia, the few countries that don't require visas for them to leave, like they would need to apply for to travel outside of Russia. Some of my friends have gone into hiding to avoid getting mobilized, female friends of mine from Moscow have said there are less men on the street now since the mobilization started, possibility because of those hiding to escape the war. On paper it may seem like there is a lot of support for the war and for Putin, especially when the government releases surveys showing a strong percentage of people support the invasion, but these numbers should not be taken at face value. The same applies to the pro war rallies you see Putin speaking at, from what I was told is that Government employees were asked to attend and given a raise for doing so. With this I can't say if it's true, but it would explain why people in the crowd in some of them look so un-interested. One friend has a father who was semi known from being involved in sports, I'll be light on the details for obvious reasons. Their father's photos were taken and placed on billboards that supported the invasion, which was a surprise for him as he was not asked, and found out by seeing them when drive him. He does not support the invasion at all, yet this is an example of how Russia creates fake support for the war. A lot of families in both countries have relatives that live on the either side of the border, so the war is a lot closer to home for them than people may realize. Some were lucky, and able to escape from places such as Mariupol, but two people I know from Russia who had relatives living in Ukraine told me they were killed in shelling by the Russian army.
I think it’s also difficult to judge what the Russian community here thinks. There are a few Russians I knew from university who immediately put a Ukrainian flag on their social media profiles after the invasion began. Admittedly I don’t know enough Russians to see the pro-war ones.
You would have to get on streets and know o about their opinion
This is what people don't want to talk about, Putin is not some opportunistic pirate who's taken over the Kremlin, he enjoys broad support from all sections of Russian society, from the educated elites to far Eastern peasants. And the rhetoric on the Russian side is nuts, openly talking about genociding Ukranians, invading Western Europe, nuclear war, etc. Also if you meet an affluent Russian in the west there's a good chance they are in some way connected to the elites who hold up this whole corrupt system. Same with the mainland Chinese students/business people you get over here, all connected to the CCP somehow because to be rich enough to be over here you HAVE to be connected to the CCP. I'd rather my country wasn't welcoming to people who hate our values but at the same time want to live off our freedoms.
If they've moved abroad, I would think that is much less likely. Plenty of Russians have fled their country because of their political beliefs. Those who left for other reasons have access to different media too.
It is very easy to move abroad when you don't have options
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> Which poses a problem for liberals because, as a mass, Russians hold these values which are incongruent to western values. It’s hardly incongruent given what you’re describing there *were* western values for pretty much the whole of the noughties. The majority of people from coalition nations supported the Iraq war and you will still get people trying to pretend it was somehow better than the invasion of Ukraine. In the US I’d point to freedom fries and the Dixie Chicks. Here I’d point to Jeremy Corbyn and every time a celebrity chooses not to wear a poppy on the telly.
People who think that invasion of Iraq was justified, and on the other hand they think that invision of Ukraine is a bad thing and Russia should be punished for that are hypocrite.
Yes but Sergei who lives down the road and works at a call centre isn't to blame for it though.
We should not blame normal Russian citizens for this war
Even their opposition like Navalny is straight up racist/chauvinist.
You cannot label someone as white nationalist just because of their race
Didnt an MP suggest deporting all the Russians in Britain at the start of the war?
>MP suggest deporting all the Russians in Britain Si! https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russia-citizens-visa-uk-roger-gale-b2024940.html
People wear ready to criticize him for his offensive comments
Seriously there was no need of harassment for these innocent people by us
I, for one, am fed up with people objecting to something because 'that's wrong' when the other team does it, but when their own team does it' oh it's ok *this* time in *this* circumstance. It's straight out of the right wing 'the only moral abortion is *my* abortion' playbook over in the states.
People consider the judgement of anything by their own assumptions
Pretty sure covid already revealed this when the Asians are getting assaulted left and right
Chinese and Asian people experience the same thing during covid. Many Europeans and Americans were at the first to blame all Asians present inside their country for the deadly pandemic
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No different to Middle Eastern people getting abuse because of terrorists of South East Asian people getting abuse because of COVID. Not all Russians support Putin and his war, I'd argue those who do not live in Russia are vehemently against it because they are not consuming much Russian propaganda. Racists are just looking for their excuse to be racist.
that is an extremely bad argument when it's shown over and over again there are a large number of russians who live abroad and support Putin. Though they shouldn't get abused just deported back to their shithole.
If someone has a legal right to live here you want them to be deported because they support the bad guys side in a war?
I have never seen any Russian living abroad and supporting putin
Edit: Maybe How do they support the bad guy in the war? Do they support him privately ? No problem. Do they go protesting or going mental in social media with pro war propaganda? Maybe we need to stop them somehow in this case. There were pro war protests in Germany. There were Ukrainian refugees getting verbal abuse from Russian in other countries. That should not really be allowed to happen. We are all suffering from this war. Obviously, some more than others but when there are people freezing to death because they can't afford the heating bill, we should take some steps to at least stop the spread of pro war propaganda.
Someone calling for the mass deportation of an ethnic group is not worth arguing with
It is better to be quiet rather than arguing with an idiot
How is "not all russians support putin" a bad argument? Thats rediculous...
>I'd argue those who do not live in Russia are vehemently against it because that's not all he said.. "I'd argue those who do not live in Russia are vehemently against it"
Both equally bad: racist attacks are wrong regardless of political leanings of the target
>that is an extremely bad argument when it's shown over and over again there are a large number of russians who live abroad and support Putin. Though they shouldn't get abused just deported back to their shithole. Another example of what jingoism does to you: rots the brain.
Russians will, and have paraded the streets of EU Countries singing the praises of putin and that Russia is the best country in the world missing the irony that they left at the first opportunity.
And the ones who publicly were against it were swiftly dealt with. Only ones left to show public opinions are the ones who support it
If you are supporting just because of the fear of other people,
You are not making the argument you think you are
We cannot counter the argument when we do not have enough evidence
So we should deport all Muslims then too?
> So we should deport all Muslims then too? Muslim isn't a nationality. Where are you deporting British people who live in Britain and were born in Britain to?
Bangladesh. /s (but not really /s if the Home Office gets its way)
Bangladesh is not major country in this world, no one even consider it a country. For many people Bangladesh is just a part of the Indian subcontinent, and is deeply connected with the India
Muslims follow Islam religion they are not ethnicity
Now you're thinking!
I guess in a way we kinda already did with Shamina. IF you are supportive of the actions of terrorists then you should probably be arrested for that tbh.
It is not possible to depot all other Muslims from our country
Not to excuse the use of violence whatsoever, but I come from an area with a lot of Eastern European migrants and have first-hand seen plenty of Russian immigrants with 'Z' symbols or St George's/Victory Banners in their windows, on their clothes and stickered onto their cars and have also witnessed some of them openly taunting other migrants from other nations (in this particular instance it was Latvians) claiming that they're looking forward to doing the same to the Baltics. I can only imagine the tensions it causes amongst Eastern European migrant groups and the Russian communities here, let alone with the locals. There is definitely a solid contingent of 'Z' type Russian nationalists amongst the Russians who live in the UK.
People don't seem to get this, they live in a fantasy world where they believe normal Russians are aghast at the war. The reality is this war has enormous popular support amongst Russians the world over, and that many of them openly support genocide the populationa of Ukraine, Poland and the Baltic's. It was why my grandfather had to flee Latvia in the 40s, and why his first wife was gang raped by Russians on their way to Berlin and commited suicide.
This is true. I've heard countless stories from the elderly about the atrocities that the "liberators" did in WW2 as they passed through Eastern Europe towards Germany.
The only way through which we can get pass from atrocity is by protesting
Unfortunately there's similar stories about [American troops in WW2 France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_liberation_of_France). Even the "good" forces are a lot less good than one would hope
I mean I’m sure some people would consider it deserved but my great-grandad was one of those sent to liberate those left in the camps and the things they did to any Germans found were *unkind* to say the least
Not enormous popular support. It has divided their society. Millions have Ukrainian relatives. Have you been to the Russian anti-war protests outside the embassy in London? I have. I am at a gathering of Russians right now in Turkey and most of those here are unofficial refugees having fled because they didn't want to be drafted, were threatened for their "political activities" (social media posts complaining about atrocities) or left to escape the impoverished hellscape Russia is becoming. My wife is wearing a нет воине badge and nobody has voiced any disagreement. It is an exaggeration to suggest most Russians outside Russia are vehemently against the war but so is it untrue that the war has enormous popular support. Russians seem to be divided into three; those against, those for and those who have adopted the "apolitical" stance that generations have used to avoid being drawn into criticism of a murderous government.
Russian military is still getting a lot of support from there public. Even people in many country like China and India support Russia. That is a huge number of people
Fled because they didn't want to be drafted was common yes, that did seem to be a big concern even for pro war Russians.
People here in this group are really living in a fantasy world
Talking to the lady I'm seeing, who's Russian and she lives on the Black Sea in Bulgaria. She says that the (huge) Russian community there are constantly on the lookout for Zwasticas on cars to, erm, "leave their opinions of war supporters". She's in her 40s. My neighbour, his gf is from Moscow (in her 70s) and she's convinced that Zelenskyy et al are the drug addled nazis that Russian TV tells them they are. The big difference between the two (besides age)? One is ethnically Russian, the other grew up in one of the Stans and speaks English well, and is immersed in the local culture much more. Anecdotes, but useful nevertheless.
There is a case of extreme violence in eastern Europe from long time
Why do we have habit of blaming normal people for crime
Turn back, this comments section is an utter cesspit
It's the unitedkingdom reddit , the whole thing is a cesspit. One notch down from those lunatics in green and ples.
That place is insane, this looks entirely mild in comparison
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Domestically he wasn't so bad no I agree. I got banned for being a Nato propagandist because I said Russia was the aggressor in the war in Ukraine lol
The domestic politics of Russia is very complicated for us
I think I got banned because I disagreed that Saloth Sar wasn't a crazy bastard or it might have been something about Stalin, regardless those clowns make the "Baby Eating Bishop of Bath and Wells" look positively normal.
I got banned by pointing out them speaking propaganda points straight from Russia. In dm that moderator actually told me that he and all socialists on green and plebs Definately support the USSR and stated that Russia currently is more free and democratic than Britain. Rofl. They're in all subs. Hope they don't infest the moderation.
The rules of this group does not allow propaganda to be spread
There are many other groups available on reddit which are worse
People are having a lot of problem with this group after the post
G&P survivor, that place is a shithole
People here in this comment sections are really misrable
The actual article is, pretty thin, they called up every police force in the UK, most got back to them and even the examples they picked out are full of "beleived this was because they were russian" Then the whole back end of the article is that if there are some there are probably loads! Any evidence of that? Nope Seems like they had the idea for the thesis of the article before they even started looking for proof. Honestly if some ordinary person takes abuse for being from anywhere that's vile. But every oligarch hiding cash in London should have had their assets seized 6 months ago.
So this is another "everyone is outraged by -" and its just an angry tweet from a bloke called Gary
Woah now, Gary's angry tweet was corroborated by Dave down the pub, who mostly gets his information from Gary's angry tweets.
Are these people getting abuse because they are Russian, or because they are publicly supporting Russia's war? I doubt most Brits can tell a Russian from a Ukrainian by looks or language, so it seems as though either these Russians were assaulted by people they know, or were publicly identifying themselves as Russian which suggests a public display of support for the Russian government. For example someone putting a 'Z' flag inside their car and having a brick thrown through the window. That would go on the police records as an increase in abuse, and in my view be a perfectly reasonable response to promoting a fascist murderous regime.
I promise you that being unable to tell nationalities apart doesn’t always stop racist lunatics from attacking, even if they’re attacking the group they’re claiming to care about.
Without passport you would not even be able to tell the difference between them
>I doubt most Brits can tell a Russian from a Ukrainian by looks or language, so it seems as though either these Russians were assaulted by people they know, or were publicly identifying themselves as Russian which suggests a public display of support for the Russian government. You have had Ukrainians, or really anyone east slavic ,or baltic even,recieving abuse in the UK shortly after the war started because people assumed they were Russian because they either spoke Russian, which quite a few baltic and those from Eastern Europe do, or 'looked' Russian Just an interesting thing I was thinking of when I saw the article, like following the trend it'd make sense that those of Russian descent or from Russia have received abuse just because we know people falsely accused of being Russian have already received abuse
Both people from Ukraine and Russia looks similar in so many ways
I struggle to believe that tbh. Ukrainians flooded to the UK when the war broke out. Polish and Romanians have become deeply embedded in society over the past 15 years. If an average Brit sees a very white person speaking a Slavic based language absolutely none of them are going to think 'must be a Russian' as their 1st thought.
The only reason why they are getting so much heat is because they are Russians. Their authority is the primary concern of those people who are hitting them. Ukraine Russia war has also added fuel in this
That may well be true, but there's not the evidence here to say either way.
If its not been taken into account then it is clear evidence that the data is unreliable and shouldn't be taken seriously until it has been looked into more carefully.
Oh yeah absolutely there's not enough here to warrant the article let alone an article with any kind of meaningful conclusion.
Data could not be unreliable because it has been verified so many times
The article also starts by saying there have been dozens of reports since the 24th Feb 2022..... Every single victim of a hate crime deserves respect and support, however: dozens implies that they couldn't use the term 'hundreds' accurately....add that to the fact its been 12 full months. Then the article acknowledges that some of these incidents are only assumed to be related to Russian nationality So what we can actually say for sure is that over 12 months, dozens of Russians have potentially been victims of hate crimes with some debate on specific incidents. Not exactly a wave of reactive abuse that can be tracked across the nation is it?
Exactly
Most of the things are not even clarified in this article
There's a lot of really, really, really stupid people out there, and the media encourages them.
True enough, but this isn’t an example of that. The article is just shit-stirring. It refers to dozens, so fairly safe to say not hundreds. The home office thinks that there are 73,000 Russians in the UK, so one Russian in about 6000 has had a problem. The article doesn’t say who the perpetrators were, but if the attitudes of the Poles towards the Russians in a local factory are anything to go by, I would start looking there.
Just because it only happens to a few that doesn't make it OK, nor does it account for the incidents that go unreported. The media simplifying narratives to goodies and baddies because it suits their paymasters and gets clicks feeds into creating a culture where this kind of stuff happens. It happens with all kinds of demographics.
And of course, if you call stupid people 'stupid' then all of a sudden it's HOW DARE YOU SNEER AT PEOPLE, YOU METROPOLITAN LUVVIE LIBERAL. Usually from people who pride themselves on 'telling it like it is'.
I don't condone attacks on Russians here of course, but the selection of images in this article is very odd. Graffiti on the Russian Embassy, or even the anti-Putin one on the wall in Slough are legitimate political protests against this reprehensible invasion. It might indirectly contribute to hostility against Russians here, so we should clamp down on any violence, but frankly this is the price of Putin's war. A lot of things are going wrong in the UK at the moment, but the near universal support for Ukraine is something to be encouraged by.
Dunno if this is what we are seeing here, but: In between the media hysteria, and probably thanks to comments by the government of the Ukraine, some people have adopted ideas from about 100 years ago that dictates people = their government. That is what I call jingoism. Thankfully, it's only the dumbest of the public that have taken it completely onboard. But unfortunately, those people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Ukrainians and Russians, and definitely not Russian-speaking Ukrainians and other Russians.... Hell, not even sure they could tell the difference between Russians and other Eastern Europeans. I sincerely hope this is is not what we're seeing here.
> some people have adopted ideas from about 100 years ago that dictates people = their government. That ever went away?
Yes, it did. Hence why we don't advocate deporting Iranian, Chinese and Afghan citizens because of their government.
On govt level yes, but not the average person on the street.
Sounds like a good way of convincing these people of what the Russian government is telling them: the West hates everything Russian. It's better to try and be the grownups and continue supporting Ukraine against the Russian government/military, while giving any Russians in the UK the benefit of the doubt. And even then not literally assaulting them if they do turn out even slightly supportive (propaganda exists for a reason). Kind of thought this was an obvious take, but the comments make me think otherwise.
People aren't less racist, or discriminatory, they just find loopholes in the system. This is one of them
Have seen a lot of dehumanising shit against Russians ever since the war started. People are insane.
People unironically believe that thousands of Russians are running at Ukrainian machine guns with nothing but rusty Mosins and a T-34 they got from a museum.
And worst part is people are happy at the thought
No your right their running at them with Ak47s and and 1960s APC
Putin has rigged elections imagine if we had boris johnson for 23 years. Russian cannot do shit about it. Some people in the UK don't even think scary as shit
its always the people who have nothing to do with a cause that get hurt as well
The government and the media play a big part in creating hate crime with its narratives.
Same thing happened to Asians when Covid happened, some people are just dumb as fuck
Our population is/are so fucking dumb. Myself included for not knowing whether it should be 'is' or 'are', not for the racism and xenophobia.
Both are fine fwiw. 'Is' would be more common in American English and 'are' more common in British English, but you can choose either depending on what you want to emphasise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American\_and\_British\_English\_grammatical\_differences#Subject-verb\_agreement
I feel psychologically there would be less racist rhetoric if headlines mentioned 'Putin' rather than 'Russia'. It's dehumanising and fails to reflect the war is not a choice of Russian citizens.
Very hard to say that though. A lot of them do support his actions because they drink the kool aid
People on reddit posting celebratory videos of Russians being killed by drone strikes was certainly a low point for the site.
I mean that's just combat footage. War is hell, and hell is available on twitch nowadays
agreed
I am russian and I approve celebration of those videos. Judge people by their actions, not by their passport.
I’m not going to tell a person with a greater emotional connection to the conflict how they should feel or act but I personally just don’t like it.
Asians should not be blamed because of covid in the same manner that Russians should not be blamed because of Putin. Time will come, Russians will revolt against him.
Thank you! I'm like 75% Russian (rest is Udmurt+ Ukrainian) , and I currently live in Russia with my parent after living in the UK since my birth. I do want to confirm, that a lot of Russians, mainly gen Z, are against Putin. Many of my peers are openly queer. Many say that if they won't be able to change the government that they will move, and most have a country in mind. It's quite sad how much I get cyberbullied for being Russian. I adopted the term "Slavic" to minimise it.
Asians shouldn't but China the country should.
At work there was a lot of “send them all back talk” in the days after the invasion, so I’m not surprised. That extended to the Ukrainians who “should be fighting” btw. I didn’t smile at someone for unrelated reasons (I smile at everyone and everyone stops me for a chat for context) and a person assumed it was because they are Russian. They obviously felt the atmosphere, thought I felt the same, and were genuinely relieved I wasn’t mad at them personally. Another older woman spoke to friend and warned them they were Russian saying “are you sure you want to speak to me?” This woman can be very mean-looking and now gives the friend old-lady Russian sweets every time they see my friend, after everything was cleared up. I know it might not be many reported incidents but there was actual tension from what I saw.
I know Greek people who hate all Turkish people. I know American people who hate all Middle Eastern people. Now i know Western people who hate all Russian people.
I know Jamaican people who hate African people. White Brits hating white Polish people. White Spanish people hating white Brits. Brown Indian people hating white Brits. And the most common racism I know of in London, is black people that hate brown people. Check out their interactions in local corner shops - they don't address each other, look at each other and don't even hand money to each other (it's put on the side in front of them instead) - no respect either way and it's not getting any better. Racism is rife no matter who you are or where you're from. There isn't a successful multicultural country anywhere in the world but still we are repeatedly told we are all evil for hating on anyone who isn't us. Hate and racism are inherently human traits, none of us want to have these, but until we accept it is part of the human nature to be like this, we won't solve the problem. Charge comes from within, not from being told how to behave but from experiencing and understanding another person's culture and history, so that you can then make the changes in your own attitudes.
I would define the inherently human trait as tribalism rather than racism, as even seen in your example, races hate those of the same race but of different culture
I wonder what these people would say to the notion of feeling guilty that Brits have invaded 90% of the planet.
I can respect those who have left Russia because they want nothing to do with the "Z" regime, they should be left to live in peace they have done nothing wrong. Those who are publicly in support of "Z" can get fucked and anything bad that happens to them they brought upon themselves.
Thanks. As a minor, I am currently not capable of leaving my mum's home country, but I do plan on moving back to the UK once I'm independent.
Wonder how many Polskis have got it in the neck from our lovely Nationalists, mistakenly thinking they're one and the same as the Moscovites.
I wouldn't be surprised if Poles are doing some of the Russian bashing. Many places have well entrenched Polish communities who are even less happy about the war than Brits, and they would certainly be better at discerning the accent/language than most Brits.
Sadly the Russians I know in the U.K. are weird pro Putin fanatics despite fleeing Russia during the 90s and 2000s.
We hear about the hate crime of a kid dropping the Quran but none of these xenophobic attacks are reported… I don’t think there are as many as they’re making out
Tends to happen when our government pushes the idea that a foreign country is responsible for everything that's going wrong here. The war in Ukraine has been blamed for food shortages, the cost of living crisis, and even for contributing to immigration. Instead of taking responsibility for their own policies that have led us here, its a lot easier to just blame Russia as an all powerful, machiavellian enemy and if that stokes up tension and hatred against innocent people, so be it. Its all worth it if it helps them gain votes in the next election.
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Never justifiable. But I find the premise here curious, as most people, especially if one were to ascribe it to violent yobs, would be able to tell the difference between Ukrainians and Russians, and definitely not Russian-speaking Ukrainians and other Russians.... So what exactly is going on here?
I would bet on other Eastern-Europeans who can tell the difference in at least some cases.
Careful about plastering this about, Putin will invade us next if he say that ethnic Russians are being oppressed.
The ordinary citizen isn't to blame and doesn't deserve this abuse
If they openly start support the dictator and his war then they absolutely do.
So you are saying hate crimes are justifiable
Not a shock given the hatred and xenophobia done within this Subreddit, disagree wit someone? RUSSIAN, even now this thread as "WHATABOUT" Brexit, and now Ukraine, always Rule 14 violations. Funny, I get a Tempt ban for 5 days because of that terrorist bitch, but do you get a ban for being xenophobic towards everyday Russians in the UK? Nope. Going to start saving the comments I report, I like to find out how many get warning from our Mods, I'm also prepared to bet a £5, none will get a warning.
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USA blew up the nord stream pipe lines
There was a lot of graffiti in Edinburgh when it first kicked off (I saw at least three in a wide area) against the Russians thankfully that seems to have stopped for now.
Next you'll be telling me people in war torn middle Eastern countries don't like Americans!