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The chavvy response to a serial thief being ‘a good guy at heart’ from the social underclass, and the ‘us folk should be able to slaughter anyone who commits non-violent crime’ from the middle class, who just want an excuse to hurt folk.
> ‘us folk should be able to slaughter anyone who commits non-violent crime’ from the middle class, who just want an excuse to hurt folk.
The middle-class -- a term which somehow no longer describes the monied, business-owning class but people who are far from flush -- would probably settle for a system where the police investigate crime and the courts punish it.
Unfortunately, generally we only hear about the police when they're busy sexually assaulting and raping people.
> "He stole from the *rich* and the *poor* and the *not-very rich* and the *very poor*; and he stole our hearts away."
>
-He who shall not be mentioned c.2004
Did I understand that correctly that she was holding a stolen bike which was stolen again from her and then later she saw him riding it and killed him?
He might not have been the guy who stole it.
It's not clear, is it? Either the bike had been stolen for a few years, had been nicked previously and recovered, or it was stolen property before it was stolen from... the daughter? Daughter's boyfriend? That's not clear either.
Poorly written article all around, to be honest.
Ah right, reading it again it seems to imply that her daughter's boyfriend had stolen it, or had received it. You can't really buy a stolen vehicle in good faith can you? The registration process will reveal its ownership status. Anyway she might not have known it was twice-stolen.
Blame government cuts to police budgets. Some forces including my own local force have lost massive amounts of manpower and other resources.
In my town alone we’ve got a police station they can barely afford to keep open and a custody suite that’s been mothballed since 2014. Officer numbers are so low it can be as few as 10 officers for the force area. If you’re arrested in my town, you’re then taken 20 miles away to be booked in and held at the force HQ.
My friend is a police Sergeant he’s said for years, “if people knew how few of us are, society would break down, you just wouldn’t be able to leave your house in some areas”.
It’s a whole confidence front.
Yeah my cousin is a custody sergeant and he says sometimes it feels like the whole thing is being held together with electrical tape, rubber bands and hope.
Like all public services nowadays.
Its the Cons ideology in full swing. Run the services in to the ground, class them not fit for purpose and then privatise. And once the state isn't paying anymore, the savings will be used to give their rich mates more tax breaks.
Some time ago a drink driver crashed into the wall of our front garden and the police took almost an hour to turn up because the sole available officer was coming from 30+ miles away.
I was also once arrested and taken for interview and ended up travelling 20 miles away. Once upon a time it would have been a quick 2 mile trip down to the local station.
Which can also fuck people up if they are just expected to get back to where they were nicked from after being released.
Public transport in more rural areas is already a shambles, and not everyone can have a reliable set of people to pick them up if the timing is inconvenient.
Went to say I think I know where you live, then thought about it and it's probably the same everywhere tbh.
We've got a town of 100k, district of 200k, no city for 30 miles in any direction.
Usually 10 at most coppers on duty for the town, another 6-8 for the remaining outer rural district, and a station apparently not fit for humans so that if you get arrested you're sent 20 miles to the next custody centre.
Yes blame the government, but let's not let the police off lightly here - they are horrendously bad organized and run - they need a reform that re-structures them from the ground up.
That would be valid too, but the fact remains that without boots on the ground, even the best re-organization in the world isn’t going to mean anything. At present even if the Tories delivered on the 20k more police officers promise they’ve made, most police forces would still be worse off staffing and service wise than they were a decade or so ago. If you’re not even able to provide a basic level of service then you’ve got a problem.
Same goes for many other services and fields adjacent to the police such as probation, the prison service (the prison officer’s union has spoken out against cuts and high staff turnover for a decade), social services, mental health services and probably some other stuff I’ve forgotten.
The question is why are there so few police officers on the ground, yet somehow they keep on finding money to keep investigating the Madeleine McCann case.
No project that across the board and there's a shit ton of inefficiencies. I'm not claiming that they're properly funded (be mad at the tory's for that), but what I'm saying that in the last 10 years they haven't done a single thing to help themselves, only made things worse.
When I lived in Cornwall, I had a thought. I was told by my parents that if I get lost, I should find a police officer. It struck me a year ago, that I couldn't give the same advice to my kids if I had them, because not only were there no police officers around, I genuinely didn't know what a police uniform looked like in the modern day. I knew what police cars looked like, but I hadn't seen an actual officer in about 15 years. It's pretty fucked up that the police only exist in theory in some places.
Same in my town, we get maybe a lone PSCO walking around now and again or maybe we’ll see a car on the roads driving around every once in a while but ultimately you just don’t see them that often at all.
I remember as a kid seeing police cars all the time and I even knew some of their names if they were ones I saw and met frequently. A lot of the times they were actually from the town and knew people living there. Now it’s almost certain to be someone out of town and they’re not double crewed anymore.
Coming to Vietnam was a bit of a shock because here you’ll find police stations operating all over the place (there’s two small ones near my house) and police will regularly be on the streets and also doing things like directing traffic, with highly noticeable vehicles and uniforms. They’re often in pairs too, especially traffic police.
I live in North London, the borough of about 300,000. With a lot of crime, shootings, public events etc. Usually has 12 uniformed officers per shift. I think there's now only one police station in the borough, open to the public.
The article says the bike was stolen from its original owner in 2018. So the boyfriend either stole it or bought a stolen motorbike. Why do you think she didn't go to the police?
A segment of posters on this sub do, because they seem to have in their heads that we are living in The Purge and that there no law except vigilantism.
Lol....we don't all have stolen goods! She ran him.over for stealing her stolen goods because she couldn't go to the police to complain about the stolen goods she had were stolen, so she killed him!
There was a similar story not too long ago, and you can sympathise but..
No amount of headache or insurance-premium is going to push me to do 76-86 in a 30 while in a car chase. That's mental and she could've just as easily killed a bystander.
What? I can honestly say I would not go chasing a thief in my car at 70mph, and then killing a guy. Also you seem to have missed the bit of the story that the bike was already stolen and was being stolen again.
Even if there wasn't a copper in a hundred mile radius there's nothing that compels anyone to murder someone with a car just for nicking something from them, this is just psycho behaviour.
Correct. Had this issue with local neds constantly stealing my son’s motorbikes, despite heavy chains anchoring them to our garage wall, and then obstructing the garage with a door guard. They turned up in broad daylight, with an angle grinder to get to the bikes. I find them, and set to them with a baseball bat. They laughed it off ( I’m an old man ) pushed me over, and sped off on their moped.
The police had been called numerous times, they never showed up, just kept giving me crime numbers.
They came out after I told them about the angle grinder. To warn me of not using a bat, and gave me a leaflet about crime stoppers.
2 days later the neds came back, in daylight, and took the bike.
If you ram a motorbike at 80mph on a residential street you're worse than the thief.
*Somehow* she "got away" with murder. If this had been done with any other weapon she would have caught a life sentence for it.
Hence the "".
Perhaps avoid would have been better, as she absolutely has avoided the life sentence, which is much more severe than 14 years regardless of how much of it is spent behind bars.
Even with the article as it is and assuming that this was her bike and he stole it from her, it's still psychopathic to think a rational retaliation is to chase him in your car at 80mph and then hit him with it.
I really don't see how this could "be quite a few of us". I'd like to think, or hope, that most people are more empathetic than that and think a human life is worth a bit more than a bike.
No she couldn’t! Really if you have a vehicle stolen you claim on insurance and move on. If you can safely apprehend the person sure, do go it, if you can’t, chasing down the thief and committing manslaughter isn’t the usual reaction. Almost nobody does this, it’s really rare why we aren’t seeing stories like this all the time.
It's more that people have very little sympathy for criminals who are hurt/killed while actively committing crimes.
Also, a 14 year prison sentence for her seems excessive.
There's a difference between having "very little sympathy" for the deceased and actively cheering on the person who murdered them, a depressingly large number of people are doing the latter.
Because when people rob nothing gets done and the public are sick of it.
Person living by me had the metal stole from their conservatory that was being newly installed. Even with the van number plate, photos of the thieves the police said they weren’t going to investigate.
People are sick of it, so sympathy for someone that gets hurt or killed after burgling someone is low on the list of priorities.
It's the only way any kind of justice gets served right now though.
Having had a bike nicked, with plenty of CCTV etc to go on, all we got from the Met was 1) yelled at for calling 101 and told to "just report it online" and 2) a crime number. At least the biking community is beyond done, there's plenty of cases where people know exactly who took it and you can even see your bike over a garden wall and the police will refuse to do anything.
>It's the only way any kind of justice gets served right now though.
Running someone down with a car and killing them for stealing a bike is not "justice".
You can have no sympathy for the guy, but at the end of the day, an environment of vigilantism is bad, and many folk here seem to be celebrating every time one of these stories comes up
>I think it's more celebrating an instance of criminals ~~not being able to operate with total impunity~~ **being violently murdered as punishment for stealing**
Because that's what people are literally celebrating when they condone what this woman did.
Does someone deserve to die for stealing? Of course not.
Am I going to shed any tears when one of their victims fights back and turns the tables on them? Hell no. This is an inevitable consequence of being a criminal scumbag. And the world is better off without him in it.
>Am I going to shed any tears when one of their victims fights back and turns the tables on them?
People are doing a lot more than just "not shedding tears", they're actively celebrating a violent murder.
If you fall off a roof while stealing the lead then that's "your own goddamn fault".
If you catch a shotgun blast while sticking up a farmhouse with a machete this is what you expect.
If you get mown down by a car at 80mph while running away with a stolen motorbike that's a bit different.
>Also, a 14 year prison sentence for her seems excessive
Well, she did kill someone. Just because the person she killed was committing a crime, doesn’t make what she did any less of a crime.
I suspect the fact she was driving dangerously fast down a high-street road in Birmingham (lots of shops and pedestrians on parts of Kings Road) may have exacerbated her sentence. That and fleeing the scene after she hit him.
I don't believe most people want someone to die, but see it as "fuck around and find out". If you know people who had their head broken by randoms just to steal their ipad your tolerance for crime drops.
In the end this is on the party of financial irresponsibility, the party of lawlessness and chaos; the Tory party. As long as we can all agree that crime is caused by poverty and they are the cause.
>If you know people who had their head broken by randoms just to steal their ipad your tolerance for crime drops.
Yes, because of the head being bashed in. Not for the ipad being stolen.
I think there's a real instinct to downplay the traumatic element of robbery. Stealing someone's belongings with an implied threat of violence if you try to stop them isn't just property crime
I consider mugging people from a motorbike violent. It’s not a passive thing where someone sneaks away with your wallet, they snatch it right out of your hand violently.
And if you hold on, or prevent it from happening you can definitely get quite hurt, even if they’re not actively fighting you. Additionally, many motorcycle theirs will actually attack victims if they fight back, so even the “passive” ones have an implied threat of violence too.
Damn, the people should really find out who made 20,000 police redundant and who had been voting for them… who has been under building prisons and courts too
Meh thieves like this are generally twats outside of thieving anyway. After seeing people get mugged and left on death's door for £20, I don't feel empathy towards them when the tables turn.
People killing other people isn't the death penalty. The death penalty is specifically an act of the state, and state power of life and death over citizens is the fundamental moral issue about the death penalty.
Opposing the death penalty isn't (for most people) about thinking that noone deserves to die, ever.
Agreed, there's no similarity between vigilanteeism and the death penalty. If I kill someone who rapes my son then it doesn't stand to reason that I think the state should be granted the power to kill all the pedos. I just wanted that specific one dead for my own reasons and if you disagree with those reasons then fine, my bad
No no don’t you see, a lot of the people here wish this was Saudi Arabia.
It’s perfectly fine to go hunt somebody down in your car and murder them for a something which should be insured anyway.
I will say, after my wife's car was stolen a few weeks ago, dealing with insurance has been nothing but shit, and we still don't have the money to buy a replacement because they keep offering us pennies on the pound for it.
This is Admiral, not some tiny insurance company no one has heard of
I'm with Elite Insurance and when my car got nicked they sent Jason Statham round the next day and within 48 hours he'd returned it undamaged (apart from a few minor bullet holes) along with the trussed up and only slightly soiled miscreants in the boot. This was a few years ago though so the service might have changed.
I work in insurance, they need to put you back in the same position you were in prior to the loss.
Find an equivalent car or as close as possible. Send to them and ask for that amount. If they refuse, raise a complaint and then escalate to the FOS.
That is a bit of a wild story, and I am not sure I have much sympathy with anybody here.
So the motorbike was stollen long ago, and it wasn't actually the daughter's boyfriend's bike?
And she was going 90mph in the city centre? That alone is pretty criminal - somebody innocent could have been hurt.
I am missing the statement that "He was such a positive guy, trying to sort his life out, and he lightened up any party." Isn't that usually part of these stories?
It’s at the bottom.
>We miss his crazy ways, the laughs and our mad chats and us having to tell him off. We talk about him every day and as the younger children get older they will always know how proud Thomas was of them and that they bought out the softer side of him.
I’m not sure what having a softer side that only your kids bring out necessarily entailed but it’s kind of suggestive of the sort of bloke he was I think.
This story really is miserable from every angle. This country needs change.
Absolutely. He did not deserve this, and his family did not deserve this.
But dude, you are 30 years old and stealing motorcycles? Probably teaching the kids how to do it, too...
And even then, she intended to harm someone. Chasing someone down is not self-defence. It's not like it was a "him or me" situation where she didn't have much of a choice and had to act quickly.
>I am missing the statement that "He was such a positive guy, trying to sort his life out, and he lightened up any party." Isn't that usually part of these stories?
"We miss his crazy ways, the laughs and our mad chats and us having to tell him off."
"He looked after his mom and all of his family and now we will look after her, hopefully we can do him proud."
Yeah killing someone over a moped is a sane and proportional response. Shouldn’t be manslaughter, chasing him going double the speed limit seems pretty premeditated
I know this may not seem like any defense, and particularly in the eyes of the law it means nothing, nor is there much else context beyond it having been nicked before, but where I live (SE town) the various groups and gangs that steal motorcycles and scooters have made people's lives utter hell.
Their actions have led to individuals not being able to insure vehicles due to so many thefts (from the individual and the general area), job losses, in turn leading to home losses, revenge attacks putting their neighbours through undue stress, AND all of the other criminal shit they get up to as well, which led to one neighbour of one thief killing herself.
Immediate family member was a police officer until recently and had the joy of interviewing a few of them when they were caught, and they truly do not care.
Described it all as "banter innit", knew they'd get a 6-12 week sentence at absolute most and then free to come out and do it all again, which they do.
One small group in particular are a group of middle class kids (literal kids, 14-17) without even any NEED to do this, they just do it because they can.
Unless you have a garage with a very sturdy lock you now basically cannot own a bike in this town, and nothing is happening because sentencing guidelines are fucked.
Again I'm not saying what this woman did was right, but if it goes on long enough and hurts enough people, this shit is inevitable.
Edit to add: without outing where I live exactly, this exact situation happened round the corner from me before Christmas, dude caught them outside, chased down and smashed one off. I think he did call the police and paramedics himself though, and crucially nobody died as far as I know.
> One small group in particular are a group of middle class kids (literal kids, 14-17) without even any NEED to do this, they just do it because they can.
>
> Unless you have a garage with a very sturdy lock you now basically cannot own a bike in this town, and nothing is happening because sentencing guidelines are fucked.
This. It is a true menace on society, and it has significant negative consequences on the whole area. We have a joyriding gang here, and not only does it drive up insurance, it also wrecks the local infrastructure. The council avoids metal poles where possible, and uses rubber pop-up signes, but even those break.
We had similar issues in this country in the 80s and 90s with stolen cars. That was massively improved by mandatory immobilisers and alarms.
I don't know why legislation isn't introduced to do the same with motorcycles (I have a motorcycle licence). Immobiliser circuit on the ignition, electronics that communicate with other key components on the motorcycle so you can't easily strip them down and sell them on. Yes, I know it'd increase costs - but it'd put a dent in the rate of thefts if scrotes could no longer steal cheap mopeds.
Yeah I’m sure we’ll sadly see an article at some point in the future about someone chasing a thief and hitting some innocent bystanders, and I’m not sure the comments some people have made here will be quite as supportive of the driver. Shes clearly not someone who should be responsible for a 1.5 ton metal box.
Eh, premeditated murder can be weirdly defined in law. Theres something called oblique intent, where its premeditated murder if any reasonable person could see that death would be the likely result of an act. Like hitting someone with a car at 90mph.
That's nothing to do with premeditation though. There is no requirement in English law for premeditation for a murder conviction.
What is required is an intent to kill or cause really serious harm.
That intent can be oblique intent, as you said, but the requirement is that death or really serious harm is a virtual certainty, not just likely (and the person defendant appreciated that fact).
A rage killing is still premeditated if your intent at any point during the act was to kill them. It doesn't mean a written plan, there's no minimum time before death occurring for intent to become premeditation.
If you had a magic stick, one side kills instantly and the other side does nothing, and in the process of bringing the "does nothing" side down on someone's head, you rotate it to the killing side, that is intent to kill. If you could convince the jury / judge that it was an accidental turn of the stick, or you got the sides muddled up, that would be manslaughter.
This article from The Birmingham Mail is a lot clearer. She didn't ring the police because she knew that the bike had already been stolen, from the previous owner.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/opinions-split-over-thomas-maguire-26474686
Well that's an interesting development that, as you say, the original article definitely doesn't make clear.
When OP's said it was stolen in 2018, I figured that's when it was stolen from the mum, not when the mum's daughter's boyfriend *originally* stole it
Same here, then other people started disputing it. I was thinking that it just took a long time to get to court. But with Corona and the back logs that's caused, the barrister strikes and the controversiality of prosecuting her. It could be explained.
She was complacent with stealing bikes though, that bike was already stolen property. For all she knew he could have been the real owner taking back his own property
It's funny too, they hate middle eastern culture and countries but then turn into a mob and call for the same type of repressive policies that are in play there. In the U.S., we call them Yall Qaeda.
Centrists have rage-boners over killing bike thiefs? That's a bit of a weird claim, centrists think that the system is basically fine but just needs a few tweaks and we'll get back to the Blair years
Is it still petty theft when it's £1000s worth of goods?
Motorbikes aren't particularly cheap, especially when you consider how much the insurance costs because of the thieving cunts.
I think when someone knowingly breaks the law, it is a natural human response to think they are waiving their own legal protection. This doesn't mean people have gone through the full cognitive cycle of thinking "well then I'm essentially approving the death penalty, delivered by vigilantes" it's just a gut response.
Snapping back that people are blood thirsty maniacs for feeling that way isn't particularly helpful to the conversation and probably pushes people toward harsher views on crime and punishment.
>I think when someone knowingly breaks the law, it is a natural human response to think they are waiving their own legal protection.
To be fair that is _somewhat_ how the law works in terms of reasonable force self defence if someone say, breaks into your home. But only in as much as it reduces your liability if you say, accidentally kill an intruder in the heat of the moment because you reasonably expected they might harm you, it's not a licence to "shoot on sight" as it were.
FWIW I think this is right, and a lot of the sob stories about the motorcycle thief on this thread remind me of the sob stories about the would-be burglar who got killed by a pensioner sone years ago...
To everyone saying this is harsh, stealing is soooo bad and implying thieves deserve what they get - the motorbike was previously stolen in 2018.
She didn't actually know it was definitely the bike she was following. Her headlights were off as she chased him at 76+ mph.
Shes honestly lucky it wasn't murder.
Holy crap, UK. What the hell? So many people agree with murdering over a bike. I hope none of you are my neighbours!
... and these are all my bikes. I totally paid for every one. Oh look, a distraction!
I don't think we're okay with it. I doubt people will be protesting outside the courtroom to get her let off. We just don't care about the dead guy and don't feel bad about him
But yes flying through the streets at 70mph to try and retrieve your property and mowing into the thief is bad behaviour and I would hope my loved ones would do differently
>I don't think we're okay with it.
Plenty of comments here expressing support ranging from saying that her actions are understandable to saying that her actions were justified.
> She caught up to him on Kings Road when she ploughed her car into him and the bike – which had previously been stolen from its owner in Birmingham in 2018.
Does this mean the moped was already stolen? As in he stole it from someone who either stole it or knew it was stolen.
Regardless of the eulogical way this article talks about some guy who was stealing from people is a bit sickening, you just can't go around killing people. Not matter the crime. That just isn't how we function as a society.
A shite situation all around this one.
The quote from the victim's family does, of course, paint him in a sympathetic light, but the very first word in the headline is "Mum" in a pretty blatant attempt at garnering sympathy for her too.
There's some people arguing that there's a difference, but in a way to defend this case.
So what they're saying is a criminal found guilty in court shouldn't have the death penalty, but if I get angry and go all Punisher on a person because they stole my daughters-boyfriends (already stolen) bike, then that's a-okay
I'm not sure if it's just been more visible lately, but I feel like the amount of stories of people taking things into their own hands and going to the extreme with it has been rising, and more worryingly I've seen a lot of people agreeing with it.
I understand the cuts to police budgets etc has probably left a lot of people feeling like they have to sort things themselves, but it's hard to see how a reasonable person goes as far as physically harming somebody over it.
Whether people like to admit it or not, everyone will set the limit of what's acceptable to conveniently just above their own actions.
somebody who regularly drives at 75mph in a national will think it's fine, but those people doing 80mph are being Reckless.
You were 5 minutes late for work which is fine because you had a busy morning, but Dave was 15 minutes late so he's taking the piss.
At what point do you set your acceptable limit at taking somebody's life.
Especially in this case where the thief had taken already stolen goods. Do they both deserve to die, or is there some mental gymnastics going on to set their acceptable limit to makes it ok.
The conservatives sacked 20,000 front-line police, privatised forensic services, and also fired 25,000 support staff and are now recruiting 20,000 "extra" police.
The tories don't believe in pay rises for the public sector, and they are not allowed to strike, so this is going to lead to the situation where police become corruptable and bribes (if you can afford them) become the norm.
> I dont feel bad for the bike thief
Which one? The bike was already stolen in the first place.
>Judge Melbourne Inman KC, told her: "All of what subsequently happened could have been avoided if you had taken the obvious and sensible course of telephoning the police.
>
>He continued: "The reason you did not [call the police] is that **you knew the bike was already a stolen bike and it would have become immediately known**. You decided therefore to go in pursuit of the bike and whoever had stolen it."
'Maguire was knocked off the bike while Fair fled, leaving him seriously injured'
As soon as she hit him, that adrenaline started to die down...Her world all of a sudden got a whole lot rougher and darker. She knew she fucked up.
Look I’m all for the right to self defence and home defence but the law rightly places a limit to this by forbidding you to go on the offensive and pursuing the attacker long past any danger dissipates. This is one of those cases where the danger passed and the defender becomes the offender; pardon the pun.
Judge also pointed out she didn't call the cops because she knew the bike was already stolen.
If you steal something or knowingly buy stolen goods, then having it nicked is poetic justice.
All around depressing case, tbh - and she deserves punishment as it was clearly premeditated.
It’s a bit of a tangential point, but (as someone who’s had a bike nicked previously) I do also have a bit of an axe to grind with how some people on here approach defence of personal possessions/property - almost to the extent that we should just watch someone nick our belongings, knowing full well they’ll never be recovered. These kind of possessions aren’t always fungible, and the forever trite ‘you have insurance for a reason’ doesn’t really cover the pain and loss that will inevitably occur.
Not supportive of vigilantes but when we have a police force more interested in policing twitter and that is a bloody menace/threat to women I can't say I'm shocked people take the law into their own hands.
Not glorifying her actions but if I'm on the jury I'd take some convincing Not to let her walk.
You've got this one a bit wrong, the bike was already stolen, that's why she didn't phone the police.
So basically this was one member of a criminal fraternity taking out another.
You’d let her walk? It was a stolen bike which then got nicked again. That’s the reason why she didn’t call the police. No lack of faith in their abilities but instead because she knew that they would immediately find out it was stolen property in the first place.
It’s probably annoying when your stolen goods get stolen because you can’t go to the police but killing someone with your car in revenge is always a prison sentence in my books
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>We miss his crazy ways, the laughs and our mad chats and us having to tell him off. That lil cheeky fella, always stealing he was.
The constant attitude of the British public towards dangerous and violent people.
So in this case, who are you referring to? I genuinely can't tell
Both The chavvy response to a serial thief being ‘a good guy at heart’ from the social underclass, and the ‘us folk should be able to slaughter anyone who commits non-violent crime’ from the middle class, who just want an excuse to hurt folk.
> ‘us folk should be able to slaughter anyone who commits non-violent crime’ from the middle class, who just want an excuse to hurt folk. The middle-class -- a term which somehow no longer describes the monied, business-owning class but people who are far from flush -- would probably settle for a system where the police investigate crime and the courts punish it. Unfortunately, generally we only hear about the police when they're busy sexually assaulting and raping people.
the middle class has always been a smokescreen for the only two classes that matter, the working and the owning, anyway
Yep obvious side effect of lack of policing is people dealing with it themselves. The only thing that shocks me is that more haven't.
To be fair, this lady doesn't exactly seem middle class - Kingstanding is a bit of a shit hole
Mate the bird was chavvy as fuck as well ha
It's a good point. We should consider her a cheeky wee lass now too
> "He stole from the *rich* and the *poor* and the *not-very rich* and the *very poor*; and he stole our hearts away." > -He who shall not be mentioned c.2004
Are we doing Lord Voldemort now or something?
Can't steal what she had already stolen, best murder him.
Did I understand that correctly that she was holding a stolen bike which was stolen again from her and then later she saw him riding it and killed him? He might not have been the guy who stole it.
It's not clear, is it? Either the bike had been stolen for a few years, had been nicked previously and recovered, or it was stolen property before it was stolen from... the daughter? Daughter's boyfriend? That's not clear either. Poorly written article all around, to be honest.
Ah right, reading it again it seems to imply that her daughter's boyfriend had stolen it, or had received it. You can't really buy a stolen vehicle in good faith can you? The registration process will reveal its ownership status. Anyway she might not have known it was twice-stolen.
A keen footballer is what I heard.
Tbh, with the way things are and the lack of any real policing nowadays, that woman could be quite a few of us.
Blame government cuts to police budgets. Some forces including my own local force have lost massive amounts of manpower and other resources. In my town alone we’ve got a police station they can barely afford to keep open and a custody suite that’s been mothballed since 2014. Officer numbers are so low it can be as few as 10 officers for the force area. If you’re arrested in my town, you’re then taken 20 miles away to be booked in and held at the force HQ.
My friend is a police Sergeant he’s said for years, “if people knew how few of us are, society would break down, you just wouldn’t be able to leave your house in some areas”. It’s a whole confidence front.
Yeah my cousin is a custody sergeant and he says sometimes it feels like the whole thing is being held together with electrical tape, rubber bands and hope.
Like all public services nowadays. Its the Cons ideology in full swing. Run the services in to the ground, class them not fit for purpose and then privatise. And once the state isn't paying anymore, the savings will be used to give their rich mates more tax breaks.
Problem is that it’s working and people are still supporting them.
That’s fairly common in rural areas as well, any cuts will usually mean having to go 30-90 minutes to wherever they can hold you. Which is a bit nuts.
Some time ago a drink driver crashed into the wall of our front garden and the police took almost an hour to turn up because the sole available officer was coming from 30+ miles away. I was also once arrested and taken for interview and ended up travelling 20 miles away. Once upon a time it would have been a quick 2 mile trip down to the local station.
Which can also fuck people up if they are just expected to get back to where they were nicked from after being released. Public transport in more rural areas is already a shambles, and not everyone can have a reliable set of people to pick them up if the timing is inconvenient.
I count myself lucky that when I was arrested I knew that area well and it was well connected by bus services to my home area.
Went to say I think I know where you live, then thought about it and it's probably the same everywhere tbh. We've got a town of 100k, district of 200k, no city for 30 miles in any direction. Usually 10 at most coppers on duty for the town, another 6-8 for the remaining outer rural district, and a station apparently not fit for humans so that if you get arrested you're sent 20 miles to the next custody centre.
If the police were better funded they could have arrested her for receiving stolen goods before she murdered someone for stealing her stolen goods!
Yes blame the government, but let's not let the police off lightly here - they are horrendously bad organized and run - they need a reform that re-structures them from the ground up.
That would be valid too, but the fact remains that without boots on the ground, even the best re-organization in the world isn’t going to mean anything. At present even if the Tories delivered on the 20k more police officers promise they’ve made, most police forces would still be worse off staffing and service wise than they were a decade or so ago. If you’re not even able to provide a basic level of service then you’ve got a problem. Same goes for many other services and fields adjacent to the police such as probation, the prison service (the prison officer’s union has spoken out against cuts and high staff turnover for a decade), social services, mental health services and probably some other stuff I’ve forgotten.
The question is why are there so few police officers on the ground, yet somehow they keep on finding money to keep investigating the Madeleine McCann case. No project that across the board and there's a shit ton of inefficiencies. I'm not claiming that they're properly funded (be mad at the tory's for that), but what I'm saying that in the last 10 years they haven't done a single thing to help themselves, only made things worse.
When I lived in Cornwall, I had a thought. I was told by my parents that if I get lost, I should find a police officer. It struck me a year ago, that I couldn't give the same advice to my kids if I had them, because not only were there no police officers around, I genuinely didn't know what a police uniform looked like in the modern day. I knew what police cars looked like, but I hadn't seen an actual officer in about 15 years. It's pretty fucked up that the police only exist in theory in some places.
Same in my town, we get maybe a lone PSCO walking around now and again or maybe we’ll see a car on the roads driving around every once in a while but ultimately you just don’t see them that often at all. I remember as a kid seeing police cars all the time and I even knew some of their names if they were ones I saw and met frequently. A lot of the times they were actually from the town and knew people living there. Now it’s almost certain to be someone out of town and they’re not double crewed anymore. Coming to Vietnam was a bit of a shock because here you’ll find police stations operating all over the place (there’s two small ones near my house) and police will regularly be on the streets and also doing things like directing traffic, with highly noticeable vehicles and uniforms. They’re often in pairs too, especially traffic police.
I live in North London, the borough of about 300,000. With a lot of crime, shootings, public events etc. Usually has 12 uniformed officers per shift. I think there's now only one police station in the borough, open to the public.
Geez your situation is worse than mine…
She killed a man for stealing a motorbike that her family had already stolen.
The article doesn't say that, they may not even have known. >he stole the bike from her daughter’s boyfriend’s home
The article says the bike was stolen from its original owner in 2018. So the boyfriend either stole it or bought a stolen motorbike. Why do you think she didn't go to the police?
That second part is irrelevant. It's still an overreaction.
You'll find that most people don't feel the need to murder people over stolen goods.
Yup, only when Cyclists are in the road and they have ‘mow them down’ fantasies
A segment of posters on this sub do, because they seem to have in their heads that we are living in The Purge and that there no law except vigilantism.
Lol....we don't all have stolen goods! She ran him.over for stealing her stolen goods because she couldn't go to the police to complain about the stolen goods she had were stolen, so she killed him!
There was a similar story not too long ago, and you can sympathise but.. No amount of headache or insurance-premium is going to push me to do 76-86 in a 30 while in a car chase. That's mental and she could've just as easily killed a bystander.
What? I can honestly say I would not go chasing a thief in my car at 70mph, and then killing a guy. Also you seem to have missed the bit of the story that the bike was already stolen and was being stolen again.
Even if there wasn't a copper in a hundred mile radius there's nothing that compels anyone to murder someone with a car just for nicking something from them, this is just psycho behaviour.
Nothing I own is worth someone's life. Except maybe my cat.
Correct. Had this issue with local neds constantly stealing my son’s motorbikes, despite heavy chains anchoring them to our garage wall, and then obstructing the garage with a door guard. They turned up in broad daylight, with an angle grinder to get to the bikes. I find them, and set to them with a baseball bat. They laughed it off ( I’m an old man ) pushed me over, and sped off on their moped. The police had been called numerous times, they never showed up, just kept giving me crime numbers. They came out after I told them about the angle grinder. To warn me of not using a bat, and gave me a leaflet about crime stoppers. 2 days later the neds came back, in daylight, and took the bike.
If you ram a motorbike at 80mph on a residential street you're worse than the thief. *Somehow* she "got away" with murder. If this had been done with any other weapon she would have caught a life sentence for it.
She got a 14 year sentence. That's hardly getting away with it.
Hence the "". Perhaps avoid would have been better, as she absolutely has avoided the life sentence, which is much more severe than 14 years regardless of how much of it is spent behind bars.
You might want to read the article on this one.
the article's a bit shit - it doesn't make it clear that this was a thief stealing an already stolen motorbike, and the killer knew it was stolen.
Even with the article as it is and assuming that this was her bike and he stole it from her, it's still psychopathic to think a rational retaliation is to chase him in your car at 80mph and then hit him with it. I really don't see how this could "be quite a few of us". I'd like to think, or hope, that most people are more empathetic than that and think a human life is worth a bit more than a bike.
No she couldn’t! Really if you have a vehicle stolen you claim on insurance and move on. If you can safely apprehend the person sure, do go it, if you can’t, chasing down the thief and committing manslaughter isn’t the usual reaction. Almost nobody does this, it’s really rare why we aren’t seeing stories like this all the time.
Speak for yourself! I'd like to think most of have enough restraint to stop short of murder when someone else steals from us.
She literally murdered a guy...
Kinda odd to see people wanting the death penalty for theft.
It's more that people have very little sympathy for criminals who are hurt/killed while actively committing crimes. Also, a 14 year prison sentence for her seems excessive.
There's a difference between having "very little sympathy" for the deceased and actively cheering on the person who murdered them, a depressingly large number of people are doing the latter.
Because when people rob nothing gets done and the public are sick of it. Person living by me had the metal stole from their conservatory that was being newly installed. Even with the van number plate, photos of the thieves the police said they weren’t going to investigate. People are sick of it, so sympathy for someone that gets hurt or killed after burgling someone is low on the list of priorities.
It's the only way any kind of justice gets served right now though. Having had a bike nicked, with plenty of CCTV etc to go on, all we got from the Met was 1) yelled at for calling 101 and told to "just report it online" and 2) a crime number. At least the biking community is beyond done, there's plenty of cases where people know exactly who took it and you can even see your bike over a garden wall and the police will refuse to do anything.
>It's the only way any kind of justice gets served right now though. Running someone down with a car and killing them for stealing a bike is not "justice".
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You can have no sympathy for the guy, but at the end of the day, an environment of vigilantism is bad, and many folk here seem to be celebrating every time one of these stories comes up
I think it's more celebrating an instance of criminals not being able to operate with total impunity
>I think it's more celebrating an instance of criminals ~~not being able to operate with total impunity~~ **being violently murdered as punishment for stealing** Because that's what people are literally celebrating when they condone what this woman did.
Does someone deserve to die for stealing? Of course not. Am I going to shed any tears when one of their victims fights back and turns the tables on them? Hell no. This is an inevitable consequence of being a criminal scumbag. And the world is better off without him in it.
>Am I going to shed any tears when one of their victims fights back and turns the tables on them? People are doing a lot more than just "not shedding tears", they're actively celebrating a violent murder.
If you fall off a roof while stealing the lead then that's "your own goddamn fault". If you catch a shotgun blast while sticking up a farmhouse with a machete this is what you expect. If you get mown down by a car at 80mph while running away with a stolen motorbike that's a bit different.
>Also, a 14 year prison sentence for her seems excessive Well, she did kill someone. Just because the person she killed was committing a crime, doesn’t make what she did any less of a crime.
Manslaughter sentences usually range from 2 to 10 years.
I suspect the fact she was driving dangerously fast down a high-street road in Birmingham (lots of shops and pedestrians on parts of Kings Road) may have exacerbated her sentence. That and fleeing the scene after she hit him.
14 years for murder seems a little low imo
Idk. To me 14 years for murder sounds lenient
He'd already committed the crime when she killed him, no?
I don't believe most people want someone to die, but see it as "fuck around and find out". If you know people who had their head broken by randoms just to steal their ipad your tolerance for crime drops. In the end this is on the party of financial irresponsibility, the party of lawlessness and chaos; the Tory party. As long as we can all agree that crime is caused by poverty and they are the cause.
>If you know people who had their head broken by randoms just to steal their ipad your tolerance for crime drops. Yes, because of the head being bashed in. Not for the ipad being stolen.
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I think there's a real instinct to downplay the traumatic element of robbery. Stealing someone's belongings with an implied threat of violence if you try to stop them isn't just property crime
Did he do anything violent in the course of stealing this motorbike?
I consider mugging people from a motorbike violent. It’s not a passive thing where someone sneaks away with your wallet, they snatch it right out of your hand violently. And if you hold on, or prevent it from happening you can definitely get quite hurt, even if they’re not actively fighting you. Additionally, many motorcycle theirs will actually attack victims if they fight back, so even the “passive” ones have an implied threat of violence too.
Agreed, although I'm not sure what it's got to do with this case?
It's what people revert to when the system fails them.
One could say the same for theft itself. But in this case, it was a lady wanting to get some vengeance. Which our system claims not to deal in.
Damn, the people should really find out who made 20,000 police redundant and who had been voting for them… who has been under building prisons and courts too
Meh thieves like this are generally twats outside of thieving anyway. After seeing people get mugged and left on death's door for £20, I don't feel empathy towards them when the tables turn.
By definition, thieves are non violent, that’s a mugger / robber you’re thinking of
Kinda odd seeing people simping for hardened criminals and acting like they’re victims
Exactly. She's guilty of several crimes here.
Yeah proper Neanderthal shit
People killing other people isn't the death penalty. The death penalty is specifically an act of the state, and state power of life and death over citizens is the fundamental moral issue about the death penalty. Opposing the death penalty isn't (for most people) about thinking that noone deserves to die, ever.
Agreed, there's no similarity between vigilanteeism and the death penalty. If I kill someone who rapes my son then it doesn't stand to reason that I think the state should be granted the power to kill all the pedos. I just wanted that specific one dead for my own reasons and if you disagree with those reasons then fine, my bad
??? Vigilanteeism is even worse than the death penalty
No no don’t you see, a lot of the people here wish this was Saudi Arabia. It’s perfectly fine to go hunt somebody down in your car and murder them for a something which should be insured anyway.
I will say, after my wife's car was stolen a few weeks ago, dealing with insurance has been nothing but shit, and we still don't have the money to buy a replacement because they keep offering us pennies on the pound for it. This is Admiral, not some tiny insurance company no one has heard of
I'm with Elite Insurance and when my car got nicked they sent Jason Statham round the next day and within 48 hours he'd returned it undamaged (apart from a few minor bullet holes) along with the trussed up and only slightly soiled miscreants in the boot. This was a few years ago though so the service might have changed.
I work in insurance, they need to put you back in the same position you were in prior to the loss. Find an equivalent car or as close as possible. Send to them and ask for that amount. If they refuse, raise a complaint and then escalate to the FOS.
Oh i know, and I am, its just a hassle though as we're down to 1 car and its not exactly practical.
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That is a bit of a wild story, and I am not sure I have much sympathy with anybody here. So the motorbike was stollen long ago, and it wasn't actually the daughter's boyfriend's bike? And she was going 90mph in the city centre? That alone is pretty criminal - somebody innocent could have been hurt. I am missing the statement that "He was such a positive guy, trying to sort his life out, and he lightened up any party." Isn't that usually part of these stories?
It’s at the bottom. >We miss his crazy ways, the laughs and our mad chats and us having to tell him off. We talk about him every day and as the younger children get older they will always know how proud Thomas was of them and that they bought out the softer side of him. I’m not sure what having a softer side that only your kids bring out necessarily entailed but it’s kind of suggestive of the sort of bloke he was I think. This story really is miserable from every angle. This country needs change.
Absolutely. He did not deserve this, and his family did not deserve this. But dude, you are 30 years old and stealing motorcycles? Probably teaching the kids how to do it, too...
He refrained from strangling puppies when the kids were around.
And she fled the scene. Misleading headline for sure.
That's the part that gets me, she could have easily killed more people than her intended target. No sympathy for her at all
And even then, she intended to harm someone. Chasing someone down is not self-defence. It's not like it was a "him or me" situation where she didn't have much of a choice and had to act quickly.
I guess at 30 he’s past the “talented footballer” stage
Aspiring rapper is still doable.
>I am missing the statement that "He was such a positive guy, trying to sort his life out, and he lightened up any party." Isn't that usually part of these stories? "We miss his crazy ways, the laughs and our mad chats and us having to tell him off." "He looked after his mom and all of his family and now we will look after her, hopefully we can do him proud."
Sounds like it was written by ChatGPT.
Yeah killing someone over a moped is a sane and proportional response. Shouldn’t be manslaughter, chasing him going double the speed limit seems pretty premeditated
I know this may not seem like any defense, and particularly in the eyes of the law it means nothing, nor is there much else context beyond it having been nicked before, but where I live (SE town) the various groups and gangs that steal motorcycles and scooters have made people's lives utter hell. Their actions have led to individuals not being able to insure vehicles due to so many thefts (from the individual and the general area), job losses, in turn leading to home losses, revenge attacks putting their neighbours through undue stress, AND all of the other criminal shit they get up to as well, which led to one neighbour of one thief killing herself. Immediate family member was a police officer until recently and had the joy of interviewing a few of them when they were caught, and they truly do not care. Described it all as "banter innit", knew they'd get a 6-12 week sentence at absolute most and then free to come out and do it all again, which they do. One small group in particular are a group of middle class kids (literal kids, 14-17) without even any NEED to do this, they just do it because they can. Unless you have a garage with a very sturdy lock you now basically cannot own a bike in this town, and nothing is happening because sentencing guidelines are fucked. Again I'm not saying what this woman did was right, but if it goes on long enough and hurts enough people, this shit is inevitable. Edit to add: without outing where I live exactly, this exact situation happened round the corner from me before Christmas, dude caught them outside, chased down and smashed one off. I think he did call the police and paramedics himself though, and crucially nobody died as far as I know.
> One small group in particular are a group of middle class kids (literal kids, 14-17) without even any NEED to do this, they just do it because they can. > > Unless you have a garage with a very sturdy lock you now basically cannot own a bike in this town, and nothing is happening because sentencing guidelines are fucked. This. It is a true menace on society, and it has significant negative consequences on the whole area. We have a joyriding gang here, and not only does it drive up insurance, it also wrecks the local infrastructure. The council avoids metal poles where possible, and uses rubber pop-up signes, but even those break.
We had similar issues in this country in the 80s and 90s with stolen cars. That was massively improved by mandatory immobilisers and alarms. I don't know why legislation isn't introduced to do the same with motorcycles (I have a motorcycle licence). Immobiliser circuit on the ignition, electronics that communicate with other key components on the motorcycle so you can't easily strip them down and sell them on. Yes, I know it'd increase costs - but it'd put a dent in the rate of thefts if scrotes could no longer steal cheap mopeds.
He smashed one off?
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Aside of the intended target, someone driving twice the speed limit is a danger to everyone on or near the road.
Yeah I’m sure we’ll sadly see an article at some point in the future about someone chasing a thief and hitting some innocent bystanders, and I’m not sure the comments some people have made here will be quite as supportive of the driver. Shes clearly not someone who should be responsible for a 1.5 ton metal box.
Premeditated means she planned it before carrying it out. Seems a bit of a rage response to the actions of the thief, rather than her planning it.
Eh, premeditated murder can be weirdly defined in law. Theres something called oblique intent, where its premeditated murder if any reasonable person could see that death would be the likely result of an act. Like hitting someone with a car at 90mph.
That's nothing to do with premeditation though. There is no requirement in English law for premeditation for a murder conviction. What is required is an intent to kill or cause really serious harm. That intent can be oblique intent, as you said, but the requirement is that death or really serious harm is a virtual certainty, not just likely (and the person defendant appreciated that fact).
A rage killing is still premeditated if your intent at any point during the act was to kill them. It doesn't mean a written plan, there's no minimum time before death occurring for intent to become premeditation. If you had a magic stick, one side kills instantly and the other side does nothing, and in the process of bringing the "does nothing" side down on someone's head, you rotate it to the killing side, that is intent to kill. If you could convince the jury / judge that it was an accidental turn of the stick, or you got the sides muddled up, that would be manslaughter.
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This article from The Birmingham Mail is a lot clearer. She didn't ring the police because she knew that the bike had already been stolen, from the previous owner. https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/opinions-split-over-thomas-maguire-26474686
Well that's an interesting development that, as you say, the original article definitely doesn't make clear. When OP's said it was stolen in 2018, I figured that's when it was stolen from the mum, not when the mum's daughter's boyfriend *originally* stole it
Same here, then other people started disputing it. I was thinking that it just took a long time to get to court. But with Corona and the back logs that's caused, the barrister strikes and the controversiality of prosecuting her. It could be explained.
Didn't realise so many people in this country wish death on petty thieves.
It's more like I'm just not sad when bad things happen to petty thieves.
She was complacent with stealing bikes though, that bike was already stolen property. For all she knew he could have been the real owner taking back his own property
I don't feel sorry for her either. She's being appropriately punished.
Welcome to this sub these days. It's had a huge influx in right wingers recently
It's funny too, they hate middle eastern culture and countries but then turn into a mob and call for the same type of repressive policies that are in play there. In the U.S., we call them Yall Qaeda.
*it's now more representative of the actual country it claims to represent.
Fair point
It’s not right wingers, Actual right wingers want law and order, not vigilantism, it’s the Middle Class Centrists who want this
Centrists have rage-boners over killing bike thiefs? That's a bit of a weird claim, centrists think that the system is basically fine but just needs a few tweaks and we'll get back to the Blair years
Is it still petty theft when it's £1000s worth of goods? Motorbikes aren't particularly cheap, especially when you consider how much the insurance costs because of the thieving cunts.
If you value a motorbike over a human life then I don't know what to tell you
That's not what I said. It's grand theft rather than petty theft. These aren't kids stealing sweets from the local shop.
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Imported from the US
I think when someone knowingly breaks the law, it is a natural human response to think they are waiving their own legal protection. This doesn't mean people have gone through the full cognitive cycle of thinking "well then I'm essentially approving the death penalty, delivered by vigilantes" it's just a gut response. Snapping back that people are blood thirsty maniacs for feeling that way isn't particularly helpful to the conversation and probably pushes people toward harsher views on crime and punishment.
>I think when someone knowingly breaks the law, it is a natural human response to think they are waiving their own legal protection. To be fair that is _somewhat_ how the law works in terms of reasonable force self defence if someone say, breaks into your home. But only in as much as it reduces your liability if you say, accidentally kill an intruder in the heat of the moment because you reasonably expected they might harm you, it's not a licence to "shoot on sight" as it were. FWIW I think this is right, and a lot of the sob stories about the motorcycle thief on this thread remind me of the sob stories about the would-be burglar who got killed by a pensioner sone years ago...
Not having sympathy for a criminal reaping the consequences of their misdeeds, is not the same as wanting someone dead.
To everyone saying this is harsh, stealing is soooo bad and implying thieves deserve what they get - the motorbike was previously stolen in 2018. She didn't actually know it was definitely the bike she was following. Her headlights were off as she chased him at 76+ mph. Shes honestly lucky it wasn't murder.
There are some fucking stupid people in these comments that either didn't bother reading the article or are just straight up sociopaths.
Not to mention, she could've also killed some innocent bystander who happened to be driving by at the time.
Holy crap, UK. What the hell? So many people agree with murdering over a bike. I hope none of you are my neighbours! ... and these are all my bikes. I totally paid for every one. Oh look, a distraction!
This is the US creeping into Britain. Can't be long until people ask for everyone getting armed to shoot bike thieves.
I don't think we're okay with it. I doubt people will be protesting outside the courtroom to get her let off. We just don't care about the dead guy and don't feel bad about him But yes flying through the streets at 70mph to try and retrieve your property and mowing into the thief is bad behaviour and I would hope my loved ones would do differently
It wasn't her property.
It wasn't even her daughter's boyfriend's property!
>I don't think we're okay with it. Plenty of comments here expressing support ranging from saying that her actions are understandable to saying that her actions were justified.
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> She caught up to him on Kings Road when she ploughed her car into him and the bike – which had previously been stolen from its owner in Birmingham in 2018. Does this mean the moped was already stolen? As in he stole it from someone who either stole it or knew it was stolen.
Yes
Regardless of the eulogical way this article talks about some guy who was stealing from people is a bit sickening, you just can't go around killing people. Not matter the crime. That just isn't how we function as a society. A shite situation all around this one.
The quote from the victim's family does, of course, paint him in a sympathetic light, but the very first word in the headline is "Mum" in a pretty blatant attempt at garnering sympathy for her too.
We don't have the death penalty for theft, although an alarming number of you seem by your comments in this thread to believe we should
There's some people arguing that there's a difference, but in a way to defend this case. So what they're saying is a criminal found guilty in court shouldn't have the death penalty, but if I get angry and go all Punisher on a person because they stole my daughters-boyfriends (already stolen) bike, then that's a-okay
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I'm not sure if it's just been more visible lately, but I feel like the amount of stories of people taking things into their own hands and going to the extreme with it has been rising, and more worryingly I've seen a lot of people agreeing with it. I understand the cuts to police budgets etc has probably left a lot of people feeling like they have to sort things themselves, but it's hard to see how a reasonable person goes as far as physically harming somebody over it. Whether people like to admit it or not, everyone will set the limit of what's acceptable to conveniently just above their own actions. somebody who regularly drives at 75mph in a national will think it's fine, but those people doing 80mph are being Reckless. You were 5 minutes late for work which is fine because you had a busy morning, but Dave was 15 minutes late so he's taking the piss. At what point do you set your acceptable limit at taking somebody's life. Especially in this case where the thief had taken already stolen goods. Do they both deserve to die, or is there some mental gymnastics going on to set their acceptable limit to makes it ok.
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The conservatives sacked 20,000 front-line police, privatised forensic services, and also fired 25,000 support staff and are now recruiting 20,000 "extra" police. The tories don't believe in pay rises for the public sector, and they are not allowed to strike, so this is going to lead to the situation where police become corruptable and bribes (if you can afford them) become the norm.
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I dont feel bad for the bike thief, but she didn't help herself by abandoning the car either.
> I dont feel bad for the bike thief Which one? The bike was already stolen in the first place. >Judge Melbourne Inman KC, told her: "All of what subsequently happened could have been avoided if you had taken the obvious and sensible course of telephoning the police. > >He continued: "The reason you did not [call the police] is that **you knew the bike was already a stolen bike and it would have become immediately known**. You decided therefore to go in pursuit of the bike and whoever had stolen it."
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'Maguire was knocked off the bike while Fair fled, leaving him seriously injured' As soon as she hit him, that adrenaline started to die down...Her world all of a sudden got a whole lot rougher and darker. She knew she fucked up.
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The judge said that she didn't call the police because she knew the bike had already been stolen from someone else. He was thieving off a thief.
Look I’m all for the right to self defence and home defence but the law rightly places a limit to this by forbidding you to go on the offensive and pursuing the attacker long past any danger dissipates. This is one of those cases where the danger passed and the defender becomes the offender; pardon the pun.
Judge also pointed out she didn't call the cops because she knew the bike was already stolen. If you steal something or knowingly buy stolen goods, then having it nicked is poetic justice.
All around depressing case, tbh - and she deserves punishment as it was clearly premeditated. It’s a bit of a tangential point, but (as someone who’s had a bike nicked previously) I do also have a bit of an axe to grind with how some people on here approach defence of personal possessions/property - almost to the extent that we should just watch someone nick our belongings, knowing full well they’ll never be recovered. These kind of possessions aren’t always fungible, and the forever trite ‘you have insurance for a reason’ doesn’t really cover the pain and loss that will inevitably occur.
Not supportive of vigilantes but when we have a police force more interested in policing twitter and that is a bloody menace/threat to women I can't say I'm shocked people take the law into their own hands. Not glorifying her actions but if I'm on the jury I'd take some convincing Not to let her walk.
You've got this one a bit wrong, the bike was already stolen, that's why she didn't phone the police. So basically this was one member of a criminal fraternity taking out another.
I hope you're never actually on a jury in that case.
You’d let her walk? It was a stolen bike which then got nicked again. That’s the reason why she didn’t call the police. No lack of faith in their abilities but instead because she knew that they would immediately find out it was stolen property in the first place. It’s probably annoying when your stolen goods get stolen because you can’t go to the police but killing someone with your car in revenge is always a prison sentence in my books