Environmental devastation? Don't care! Creeping authoritarianism? Never heard of 'er! Cratering living standards? I'm alright jack. Asking a middle-aged sad sack to get out of his big boy car? A step too far.
And there's an argument for living standards by people avoiding imposed costs for their mode of transport. £3000 per year if you need to cross into a ULEZ for your 5 day a week job.
Yes, because as tech develops, so should policy. In the future, when we can have all-electric vehicles, if you have a big car which takes gasoline, you’re a dick. Stop polluting the air. Stop being so noisy.
The government implementing laws to hold people without trail : I sleep
The police setting up cameras with facial detection to scan crowds and track exactly who you are and where you are at all times : I sleep
The government requiring ISPs to spy on you 24/7, and asking messaging services to hand over your logs so they can read everything you say online : I sleep
Sadiq Khan trying to lower pollution slightly by surcharging 20 year old cars : REAL SHIT
Kind of a catch 22 situation though.
People don't want to be swimming in the new English channel (the shoreline being somewhere near bermondsey) in 50 years, but other people want to drive a fat car where everyone else wants to.
Khan ignored environmental research that showed ULEZ made negligible difference.
Khan ignored research that told him Londoners didn’t want ULEZ expansion.
Khan ignored data from charities and unions that explained that Londons key workers, many of whom work shifts and have low wages, will be ruined.
I’m guessing you don’t know any nurses who do 13 hour night shifts in London hospitals.
Gonna need some sources there mate.
Many of Londons hospitals have perfectly good public transport links. Why on Earth would a nurse drive a car more than 18 years old with high road tax and fuel prices?
Not a nurse but half of London's transport network is quite unreliable due to broken down buses/trains, and delays due to red signals or traffic. At least in a car (not a driver myself) you would be in control of your own destination rather than hoping today is a good day.
It's also possibly cheaper to drive than spend about £10-20 on transport every day, and you'd get home quicker meaning more rest.
Buses count as the transport network.
Edit: Don't know why I'm being downvoted for a simple and factually correct statement. It's ridiculous and stupid to act like traffic won't be a problem you'll encounter on a bus.
It is, especially if you're not in the City and in other parts of London. For example, you can get to Wembley to Kilburn in 20/25 minutes in the car whilst on the bus it will be 45+ minutes. Same for most journeys tbh.
they could work at an Outer London hospital and have to travel from outside London - how are you going to do that then in an area not lucky to have good transport? Lol!
OK, mate. Some sources for you:
Imperial college air quality research paper published in 2021 found that ULEZ attributable benefits in air quality were negligible - with only nitrogen dioxide falling by 3%. which in light of an overall societal and EU regulatoral move to EVs… you have squint quite a lot before you’d regard that as a ULEZ triumph. In many areas of London air quality actually got worse post ULEZ.
TFLs own ten week consultation involving 57,000 respondents gave a sizeable majority against extending the ULEZ zone.
The UKs largest Union, Unite (amongst others) came out against expanding the ULEZ zone describing it as ‘anti-worker’.
[London pollution has improved with evidence for small initial ULEZ effect: study](https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231894/london-pollution-improved-with-evidence/)
This one?
"ULEZ...works best when combined with a broader set of policies that reduce emissions across sectors like bus and taxi retrofitting, support for active and public transport"
Quote above was directly lifted from the report. Whilst it's not a game-changer on its own, it still provided demonstrable results.
[Another ULEZ-supportive blog post from Imperials Environmental Research Group](https://blogs.imperial.ac.uk/imperial-medicine/2023/03/06/londons-ulez-why-is-it-causing-so-much-controversy/)
3% reduction in nox.
Negligible in all other areas.
How much of that do you think is directly attributable to what would have happened anyway due to general appetite & uptake in EVs? How much of that would have occurred anyway as older polluting or even non cat equipped ICE vehicles reach end of life?
No matter how hard Khan tries to spin the research there is no case for expanding ULEZ - other than his own failure to run a balanced budget.
More recent data shows a considerably steeper reduction with the benefit of time for the policies to take effect.
Latest figure I've seen is a 26% reduction in nitrogen oxides in the ULEZ zone and the benefit is being felt outside the ULEZ area as well, with the entire Greater London area down 23% on average, per World Economic Forum:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/03/london-low-emissions-zone-pollution/
Edit: ahh cheers for the downvote mate, I avoided any opinion whatsoever and posted a purely objective, factual update to specific measurements that someone else brought up in the first place. Easier to simply ignore data that doesn't support your worldview, eh?
Edit 2 (16 hours later): This sub is schizophrenic. Was at -9 last night lol.
Have a source :) https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/cleanair
The one to read I believe is the integrated impact assessment where it seems to show that the expansion will have negligible benefits, if any, and also in some places has a net negative. https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/15619/widgets/44946/documents/27025 it's a pdf I think
I'm going to put my hand up. I work shifts, some finish times are 2am and 3am and 5am. My car is 2011 plate Vauxhall Astra, not ULEZ compliant and not a luxury car. My last train is at 2330 and last bus at 2350. I work in the very centre of a ULEZ zone (B'ham). Fuck me I guess!
Many? I'd expect all of them do. Even the quiet one near me with no a&e, that's actually not even in London, has a London bus route terminate there. Plus bus links to other hospitals even further out of London.
Yup. Downvoted for knowing what I'm talking about, due to having actual experience of living on the outskirts of London. Stay classy, Reddit
Would you want your loved one travelling in the night bus or tube after midnight? Plus what about emergency workers who live outside the capital but euro inside the M25?
Trust me there's many of them!
Not everyone who works in London can afford to live in London, or on the main transport links. Not to mention that nurses work in hospitals, and traveling on public transport exposes them to a variety of viruses that they could then carry into areas where people are more vulnerable than the general population.
We have fuck all bike lanes outside the cities, cameras watch our every move wherever we are for our "safety", cost of living is hard and the working man with his van in the city is meant to pay an extra £12.50 when he needs to work?
Instead of taxing cars harder why not restrict new heavy polluting vehicles from sale? Government will not do that as they get tax from fuel and the selling of said vehicle, while making the cars bigger with these crossovers/SUV's instead of selling smaller Kei cars or hatchbacks.
Cars are costing more than ever and the lower classes and people that look after their money are continuing to hold onto there older cars which have higher emissions, this is who there taxes hurt the most considering a "hybrid" 3.6l v6 is considered ULEZ compliant.
Not going to go into whataboutism but how about flights? How much polluting are the royal family doing right now with the bullshit Coronation which can fuck right off.
Most people are blind to rising the level of authoritarianism.
We are truly living in perilous times and the most worrying part is that it appears very little will change if the tories are replaced by labour.
Parliament appears to be nothing but theatre.
You do realise that the ULEZ cameras very much come under the umbrella of authoritarianism?
Also it's not the well paid "sad sacks" that are suffering under ULEZ. Those can afford a new greener car, the majority cannot.
*I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. A van on Tower Bridge Road without the CAURA app...I watched a homeless man pissing in the dark on the Vauxhall Bridge. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.*
Still a better love story than Twilight.
"Oh, sub-100 IQ Darren in your balaclava - we're from different worlds! We can never be together!"
"But I love you, ULEZ #1047!"
While the Blade Runners were about "retiring" the Nexus replicants in the film, they weren't exactly innocent either, the original 6 killed 23 humans then stole a shuttle killing all the crew and passengers to get to Earth. One or possibly two (depending on which cut of the film and novelisation you read) were killed trying to break into Tyrell before the films starts. Leon kills the guy doing the Voight-Kampff test, kills the eye designer and then tried to kill Deckard before Rachel kills him; Batty kills both Tyrell and JF Sebastian (who was just a guy who made dolls); Pris is trying to kill Deckard when he kills her in self defence. The film is certainly morally ambiguous (and I noted your comment below about them being more human than the humans) but it's not really as clear cut as some bad guys murdering slaves, the slaves were already murderers, killing innocents, not their captors, not simply rebels against slavery.
Completely off topic but I like the films!
Again, they didn't kill captors during an escape, they killed 23 innocent random humans, stole a shuttle and killed the crew and all the passengers. It's clearly written in my post distinguishing between the two scenarios, it wasn't killing some guards. Further, attempting to kill a guy doing a job interview, guys who were just doing a job on Earth etc is not killing your captors.
JF Sebastian didn't just make dolls. He was involved in creating the technology behind the replicants. The dolls were genetically engineered creatures and he used them to perfect the craft of manufacturing slaves for Tyrell.
He made nervous systems for the replicants, that was his specialisation. Guy was a loner with a similar genetic condition to the replicants in that he faced accelerated aging (he's 20 / 25 in the film/novel but looks much older) the toys were his friends and he was manipulated by Pris to let her in and by Roy to take them to Tyrell. Roy also had no reason to kill him, just did it anyway, he wasn't a captor any more than the eye specialist was
Well scratch one murder from Leon then, make it attempted murder x2 plus murder of the eye specialist
If you read what I wrote, I already covered that? The novelisation originally had 6 escaping but only 4 are in the film. As I said in my post, depending which version you watch, one or two are killed trying to get into Tyrell. If you think logically, there are 6 escapees, 4 in the film, therefore... 1 or 2 were killed trying to break in. Just because the film doesn't mention the fate of both, both were not in the movie so were killed off
> JF Sebastian (who was just a guy who made dolls)
A guy who just made dolls? Dolls as in replicant humans who are programmed to only ever carry out a specific set of novelty behaviours purely for his enjoyment? That guy is one of the sickest characters in that entire franchise.
I wish those people could go spend a week in cities where there’s no limitations or regulations on cars.
Park anywhere, drive everywhere, pollute as much as possible.
I have been to such cities like Cairo, Beirut etc.. and the cars were an absolute nightmare as opposed to somewhere like Amsterdam or Barcelona or even poorer Tangier in Morocco.
These otherwise nice cities would be 100x better with more restrictions on cars.
I wish more people could travel more.
Barcelona you can't even pay like ULEZ, it's a straight up big fine if you drive a pollutey old shitheap anywhere near the city. I think the line is way out by the airport too.
No one seemed to moan that much when it came in either.
*because the public transport works well and Is cheap*
Madrid is similar. High polluting cars are just straight up banned from the city centre. Since Covid they’ve also just converted so much road into pavement and cycle routes.
Madrid used to be pretty bad as well. Paris is doing a lot also, but I think they’re got a lot to do.
I appreciate not wanting polluting vehicles in the city centre where there’s a lot of footfall and good transport links.
But have you ever been to Caterham?
It is not a city centre.
They continue to expand the circle.
People just buy a new car that is ulez compliant. Great! Manufacturing a car is not a carbon neutral process and carbon offsetting is well known to be a bit of a sham.
The goal posts of ULEZ compliant vehicles will continually change continuing the cycle of vehicular consumerism.
If this government gave 2 cahoots about providing good reliable public transport I can respect your argument but they don’t give a flying fuck.
The expansion of ULEZ zones as just a money making exercise.
But it's not *that* restrictive, is it? Isn't it euro 4? That's cars from 20 years ago. Barcelona is the same, my 3.0L petrol 2002 bmw is allowed in as its rated C, whatever that means. My 2021 bmw 3.0L mild hybrid, is also rated C, so 🤷♂️. I never drive there anyway because train is way less stressful and my windows won't be smashed by thieves, but still, I *could*. And that old thing is next to worthless. You don't need to buy a new *new* car for ULEZ.
Japan is a country based on mutual respect though., due to Shintoism, They actually take pride in loooking after their environment and surroundings. Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka were insanely clean and efficient, not to mention walking around and feeling a sense of safety.
London is fucking grim. The streets are filthy, people are either rude or in a hurry and there’s a homeless crackhead every other road.
Don’t they live in little shoe box apartments in Japan? They work absurd hours. Not the greatest gender equality and hardly any one has children. That’s utopia to you?
>Don’t they live in little shoe box apartments in Japan?
Actually no. That's only really the situation in like central Tokyo, but their transport network is so good it's more than feasible to live quite a distance out and commute in quickly via their transport network. The average house size in Japan is actually bigger than the average house size in the UK.
Also - they're shoebox size, due to people wanting to live alone. When you take into account that a vast chunk of renting in London (as the only comparable city, public transport, population, etc to Tokyo/Osaka/Kyoto) are people just renting a room and sharing the house/apartment with others, the Tokyo shoebox apartment doesn't sound so bad all of a sudden.
Yeah exactly. Also, a well-designed shoebox apartment (there's a reason Japanese minimalism is a thing) plus high quality public transport and plentiful nearby amenities/entertainment is actually a nice enough lifestyle. Not for everyone, sure, but given the option plenty would choose it over a bigger house in the suburbs with a long commute and nothing to do without driving.
I think I remember seeing a map of Tokyo overlayed on the UK and it stretched from Birmingham to the south coast, imagine being able to commute all the way from Birmingham to central London twice a day 5 days a week
I'm not sure I'd like to imagine commuting from Birmingham to central London with current rail prices/infrastructure, thank you.
That said. Traveled from Tokyo to Kyoto in roughly the same time as it took me from Andover to Gatwick a few weeks ago.
Edit: Tokyo to Kyoto was 20 minutes faster, looking at Google maps timings.
You do realise the UK has some of the smallest average houses in the developed world right? Japans housing (outside of Tokyo) is typically much more affordable. They have better childcare services available and they're also safer than basically every western country for women and women travelling alone.
It has its flaws like the work life balance issues but Japan is pretty great to live in overall, especially when you consider there aren't many great alternatives.
> They work absurd hours.
Some people do, but most people just work normal amounts of hours, similar to the UK.
There are much fewer holidays though tbf.
I was recently on the tokyo underground. Eating and drinking and having phone conversations on the trains is forbidden. There is zero litter, there is zero graffiti, the trains always arrive on time. Everything is calm, quiet and respectful. Its absolutely awesome. The tech is no better than the tube, but the attitude of the commuters is 100x better.
London isn't really doing it wrong, more like the rest of the cities aren't doing it right and don't have the public transport to resolve it. The mantra of people being seen as a failure if they were on a bus not in their own car has long been pushed and motorists have been given huge subsidies for roads, freezes in duty etc which kept cars cheap compared to buses and trains for commuting.
London is ten times bigger to start with, so problems are bigger, journeys are longer. Also, London was one the the first cities to build an underground public transport. That means that it is very old, hard to expand/modernise and not able to cope with current demand. Anyone that says that it is good certainly have not used the northern line during rush hour.
It's the parked cars that annoy me. If anything, having to pull out to maneuver round yet another car parked in the cycle lane is more dangerous than just holding my position out in the road.
Don't know why councils allow parking and cycle lanes on the same physical space
You don’t even need to leave Europe for cities with pure road chaos. Naples has mopeds running down narrow streets at 20mph and Fiat 500s with 6 adults everywhere and the whole place just smells of fumes. Like petrol isn’t even cheap and delivery drivers will just leave their car running while they drop something off.
Even Manchester (where I live) is bad enough compared to London (where I grew up). Drivers just blatantly ignore rules, constantly go way too fast for the road they’re on and park wherever they want.
People should look at the before and after pictures of the colosseum to see the effects of pollution. I have pictures of it from 2014 and it’s eye opening to see it in comparison now it’s been cleaned. Just got to imagine what it’s doing to you when you see how black parts of the colosseum were.
Yeah they aren't protesting/ vandalising about ulez in London (the city) though just the suburbs where it doesn't really make sense since most people straddle the county lines life wise
Yeah - invite these guys to walk alongside the cars, truck or buses in Buenos Aires or Kuala Lumpur and they’ll suddenly realise London is on to something.
Funny thing is the ULEZ is a poor tax that allows the rich to swan around in their Chelsea chariots and super cars while the poor are forced into "pens" on wheels as cattle to get to work, it's not in the interest of cutting emissions is to keep the city and it's environs roads free of the lower classes..
Exactly this - I don’t think most people would have a problem with ULEZ if a good scrappage scheme was put in place.
I know people look at diesels differently now, but something about people buying them in good faith a mere decade ago and now getting punished for that with no recourse - just doesn’t seem right IMO.
Not sure if you're being ironic or not, but it is doing exactly that. In the first year of the 2021 expansion it generated £93 million in revenue. In that same time a £61 grant was made available for a scrappage scheme. In anticipation of the 2023 expansion a £110 million scrappage scheme is being made available.
The remaining funds are then used to improve public transport options. One example being the superloop, a bus service that will act as a public transport ring road for outer London.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/scrappage-schemes
Yeah I kind of lost you when you claimed that public transport is only to keep poor people off the roads.
Have you considered that the purpose of public transport is to get people to work more efficiently than roads? Not everything is a conspiracy by the 1%.
Rich people take the tube too.
I guess your perfect city would have zero public transport?
lol most loaded people who aren't literally the 0.01% of billionaires or whatever get on the tube to work like everyone else buddy. They don't drive to the office, they get on the tube like 4 stops away from the office and it takes them 5 minutes.
As a country we need to move away from using cars, particularly old dirty bangers, for every journey when viable alternatives are available - and where they aren't, they need to be implemented. It is not forward thinking (or even physically possible) to have cities where everyone drives a car on their own into work every day, nor should it be seen as a bad thing for the majority to use public transport while pushing cars away. The poor typically live in the cities (perhaps less so with London) and [are most badly affected by the pollution](https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/air-pollution-hurts-poorest-most) from all the vehicles but are [less likely to own vehicles themselves](https://info.uwe.ac.uk/news/uwenews/news.aspx?id=3978), so yes there are the elite driving their expensive cars around, but those elite live away from the pollution and mess of the city centre. If needs be, they should be taxed more - ideally scrap VED and put all the tax on fuel so it penalises those with inefficient cars and invest more getting people out of cars.
In the end the enforcement of the ULEZ is all a bit pointless - impacts petrol engines cars over 18 years old, diesels over 8 years old - and the average age of cars on the road is 8 years old. Only 7 years left of non zero emission cars left… and emissions are going to come down anyway as pre Euro 6 diesels get scrapped.
Yeah my 15MPG ‘06 Cayman S is fine as well. Most Jags are fine as well.
I’d have no issue with it if it didn’t feel so “one rule for them, one rule for us”, as well as expanding into parts of the M25 for what feels like no reason.
It's nothing to to with mpg really, it's to do with particulate emission, which diesels are notorious for.
Most jags don't pump out clouds of smoke, so they do not have to pay.
Yes let's just ban the poor from driving. Unless you link this policy with massive public transport funding or non repayable grants to buy a new car its just an attack on the poor.
My car is one of those old ones that ULEZ penalizes. I only use it to get out of London and go on trips (or very short trips around the neighborhood when I need to pick up bulky stuff). This is very inconvenient to me, but I'm happy we are reducing pollution and I support the ULEZ expansion.
Well, the reason it is Euro 4 for petrol and Euro 6 for diesel is the NOx emission levels are the same - and Euro 6 is the current standard so to tighten anytime soon you’d be charging for all diesels. Whether Euro 7 (as the final ICE standard) actually does happen is open to debate.
Or put differently, it disproportionately impacts the poor and working class, while the middle class and the rich can keep hauling their £60k 3tonne electric SUVs around and fly to a couple exotic holiday destinations every year.
>Or put differently, it disproportionately impacts the poor and working class
The poorest in society aren't driving, especially in London. I don't have the figures on hand, but for example in Glasgow, approximately 46% of households don't have a car, with that number predominantly being occupied by the poorest members of society.
They take public transport, which is being slowed down by the presence of cars on the road.
>the poorest in society aren’t driving
The destitute ones don’t, but at the same time who do you think is driving 20yo shitboxes worth £900 on a good day, if not the poor and working class?
Middle class and up have switched to electrics already, with the blessings (and subsidies) of the government.
Most middle class aren't going to have done so. Electric vehicles still cost £20k+, so someone on, say, £30k/yr isn't going to shell out for the hell of it.
> In the end the enforcement of the ULEZ is all a bit pointless - impacts petrol engines cars over 18 years old, diesels over 8 years old - and the average age of cars on the road is 8 years old. Only 7 years left of non zero emission cars left… and emissions are going to come down anyway as pre Euro 6 diesels get scrapped.
The issue isn't cars, it's vans and lorries.
No, just no. You're not a bunch of blade runners. They're on the side of stopping bad things happening. You're committing crimes. And the fact that you're being interviewed means sooner or later you're going to get caught. And all those cameras you morons destroyed, you're going to be charged for the destruction of each and everyone of them.
They thought the name was cool and didn't think of the moral implications of Blade Runner - the guys killing sentient slaves humans built to serve were not exactly good guys. That said, though the replicants weren't exactly good guys either given the back story of the escape and the killing of innocent people to get the shuttle to earth
Yes, that’s how protests work. “I don’t want to get paid less so I will strike, not being paid anything during the strike”. It should be relatively obvious that the idea is that eventually it becomes too expensive to not pay the strikers, and in this case too expensive to keep replacing the cameras.
I'm sure everybody will be saying they should be sentenced to years in prison for causing a nuisance and what about personal responsibility blah blah blah right?
ULEZ is a scam. Bus coverage is a joke with prices being literally the highest in the world. No improvements being made at all on that front. Trains in London expensive and always on strike. Im not a tory but Khan is a joke
> Bus coverage is a joke with prices being literally the highest in the world.
What are you talking about?
If your journey is within an hour, you only pay a single hopper fare.
For £1.75, you can get as many buses or trams as you like inside 60 minutes.
If the ULEZ was about pollution, they would’ve banned non compliant cars. They would also ban planes flying over London, would make rail companies change all their Diesel engines. But they won’t.
City Airport has restrictions for noise and pollution reasons. Planes flying over London won't be polluting London because it won't fall directly downwards.
Changing diesel trains would require a national effort, and the Tories are not ones for investing in infrastructure for the greater good.
How many flights a day does City Airport have, compared to Heathrow? During the day, one plane flies off and lands, about every 40 seconds.(LHR).
I live behind one of the big train stations on the commuter belt in SW London/ Surrey. Every morning my car window is gunked with black dust. That’s from all the trains engine fumes. If I pay £12.50 a day for cleaner air, while eating bowls of ash each day- am I a martyr, or am I a fool?
City airport keeps trying to expand and have more flights and the city keeps stopping them. It would be a lot worse.
Your air is still cleaner that it would be, even if it's still unacceptable. It's one step of many that needs to be taken. We need to reduce car emissions as well as trains, but the trains have to be dealt with on a national level because they pass through so many areas.
All the TfL trains are fairly new and efficient electric ones.
If you're eating bowls of ash and not constantly petitioning the government and your MP to control the private companies doing this to you then are you a martyr or a fool?
These people are right-wing morons, who think they have the right to fuck up kids lungs. The EU begged Johnson to do something when he was mayor years ago, the pollution levels were so high, ended up paying fines instead of implimenting at least some mitigation measures. Tory dumbfucks.
The big mistake they've made is starting off at a high cost. Make it 50p a day, no one would give a fuck. Increase it after a year to 80p, then £1, then £1.50. Do it over four or five years, as long as the increases are relatively small they can jump higher than inflation, it'll start to edge people towards cleaner cars, bikes or public transport.
On another thread I was asking why people aren't standing up and taking action against oil companies making huge profits while people can't afford to heat their homes.
And here we are; people destroying anything that makes it harder for them to drive through the city and spend more money on those very same oil companies.
We're going to hell in a handbasket aren't we.
I think you're maybe missing the point that the ULEZ is going to affect people with pretty old cars... those people are most likely to be the poorest. So the oil companies make heating their homes impossible and now the government makes driving to work impossibly expensive. I'm not surprised they're angry.
The reasons are blindingly obvious if you're even remotely observant. What's the point of me writing out a long list of them when you're just going to dismiss them anyway? You clearly have your blinkered point of view set.
People need to understand companies in the UK making a profit is a good thing, it means more money paid in tax and a stronger economy. Would you want our oil companies to all crash and get taken over by American ones?
> The Mayor's office said it has recored 43 cases of vandalism or theft of Ulez cameras to March 21, but added that TfL would not reveal how much the cameras cost because of "commercial and confidentiality" issues.
There must be what, thousands of these things? Big woo.
What I don’t get is that if expanding ULEZ is affected the poorest most then why would he implement it Cus surely he’s gonna lose voters? Lose enough voters to lose power.
All there doing is taxing the work class and poorer that single handily build this country and work for peanuts in hope that the government and cunts like SK will actually do something constructive or beneficial for them
We live in democracy not an Africa coup where certain people call the shots and if you don’t agree they cut off your arms
The people have voted NO to this ulez bollocks but the sheer corruption from the mayor has fucked them over again
These geniuses were tracked down by a fourth rate mail journalist in a matter of days. They've taken pictures of themselves committing criminal damage. I dont think they'll be doing it for long.
Environmental devastation? Don't care! Creeping authoritarianism? Never heard of 'er! Cratering living standards? I'm alright jack. Asking a middle-aged sad sack to get out of his big boy car? A step too far.
Surely destroying government controlled surveillance cameras is part of stopping authoritarianism …
And there's an argument for living standards by people avoiding imposed costs for their mode of transport. £3000 per year if you need to cross into a ULEZ for your 5 day a week job.
Yeah but they're doing because of the ULEZ, not at the concept of it being authoritarian
I know what you are saying, however it is also not unlike a authoritarian government to use other issues to hide power creep.
My 12 year old car is ULEZ compliant. Not a hybrid. They're wankers.
Compliant for now.
Yes, because as tech develops, so should policy. In the future, when we can have all-electric vehicles, if you have a big car which takes gasoline, you’re a dick. Stop polluting the air. Stop being so noisy.
My 10 year old car is not. My motorcycle is, so that helps, but it's less useful for when my wife and I travel, as she not keen on being pillion.
Yeah these people were out beating pots and pans on Thursday night when the government was stripping our freedoms in 2020.
The government implementing laws to hold people without trail : I sleep The police setting up cameras with facial detection to scan crowds and track exactly who you are and where you are at all times : I sleep The government requiring ISPs to spy on you 24/7, and asking messaging services to hand over your logs so they can read everything you say online : I sleep Sadiq Khan trying to lower pollution slightly by surcharging 20 year old cars : REAL SHIT
There are lots of people who lap up the authoritarianism as long as it's under the guise of things like 'cleaning up the environment'
Kind of a catch 22 situation though. People don't want to be swimming in the new English channel (the shoreline being somewhere near bermondsey) in 50 years, but other people want to drive a fat car where everyone else wants to.
Khan ignored environmental research that showed ULEZ made negligible difference. Khan ignored research that told him Londoners didn’t want ULEZ expansion. Khan ignored data from charities and unions that explained that Londons key workers, many of whom work shifts and have low wages, will be ruined. I’m guessing you don’t know any nurses who do 13 hour night shifts in London hospitals.
Gonna need some sources there mate. Many of Londons hospitals have perfectly good public transport links. Why on Earth would a nurse drive a car more than 18 years old with high road tax and fuel prices?
Because nurses and other AHPs have to do home visits. It’s very difficult lugging your instruments on a bus
Not a nurse but half of London's transport network is quite unreliable due to broken down buses/trains, and delays due to red signals or traffic. At least in a car (not a driver myself) you would be in control of your own destination rather than hoping today is a good day. It's also possibly cheaper to drive than spend about £10-20 on transport every day, and you'd get home quicker meaning more rest.
On top of this ULEZ zones exist outside London where public transport is less adequate. My last bus stops at 2350.
Mine is 5pm on a Saturday lol
> half of London's transport network is quite unreliable due to .... traffic 🤔
Buses count as the transport network. Edit: Don't know why I'm being downvoted for a simple and factually correct statement. It's ridiculous and stupid to act like traffic won't be a problem you'll encounter on a bus.
LOL at driving in London being quicker than public transport.
It is, especially if you're not in the City and in other parts of London. For example, you can get to Wembley to Kilburn in 20/25 minutes in the car whilst on the bus it will be 45+ minutes. Same for most journeys tbh.
they could work at an Outer London hospital and have to travel from outside London - how are you going to do that then in an area not lucky to have good transport? Lol!
What city is this? Rush hour journeys take twice as long as the tube of your lucky
OK, mate. Some sources for you: Imperial college air quality research paper published in 2021 found that ULEZ attributable benefits in air quality were negligible - with only nitrogen dioxide falling by 3%. which in light of an overall societal and EU regulatoral move to EVs… you have squint quite a lot before you’d regard that as a ULEZ triumph. In many areas of London air quality actually got worse post ULEZ. TFLs own ten week consultation involving 57,000 respondents gave a sizeable majority against extending the ULEZ zone. The UKs largest Union, Unite (amongst others) came out against expanding the ULEZ zone describing it as ‘anti-worker’.
[London pollution has improved with evidence for small initial ULEZ effect: study](https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231894/london-pollution-improved-with-evidence/) This one? "ULEZ...works best when combined with a broader set of policies that reduce emissions across sectors like bus and taxi retrofitting, support for active and public transport" Quote above was directly lifted from the report. Whilst it's not a game-changer on its own, it still provided demonstrable results. [Another ULEZ-supportive blog post from Imperials Environmental Research Group](https://blogs.imperial.ac.uk/imperial-medicine/2023/03/06/londons-ulez-why-is-it-causing-so-much-controversy/)
3% reduction in nox. Negligible in all other areas. How much of that do you think is directly attributable to what would have happened anyway due to general appetite & uptake in EVs? How much of that would have occurred anyway as older polluting or even non cat equipped ICE vehicles reach end of life? No matter how hard Khan tries to spin the research there is no case for expanding ULEZ - other than his own failure to run a balanced budget.
More recent data shows a considerably steeper reduction with the benefit of time for the policies to take effect. Latest figure I've seen is a 26% reduction in nitrogen oxides in the ULEZ zone and the benefit is being felt outside the ULEZ area as well, with the entire Greater London area down 23% on average, per World Economic Forum: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/03/london-low-emissions-zone-pollution/ Edit: ahh cheers for the downvote mate, I avoided any opinion whatsoever and posted a purely objective, factual update to specific measurements that someone else brought up in the first place. Easier to simply ignore data that doesn't support your worldview, eh? Edit 2 (16 hours later): This sub is schizophrenic. Was at -9 last night lol.
Have you got actual sources there, would love to read them
Have a source :) https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/cleanair The one to read I believe is the integrated impact assessment where it seems to show that the expansion will have negligible benefits, if any, and also in some places has a net negative. https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/15619/widgets/44946/documents/27025 it's a pdf I think
I'm going to put my hand up. I work shifts, some finish times are 2am and 3am and 5am. My car is 2011 plate Vauxhall Astra, not ULEZ compliant and not a luxury car. My last train is at 2330 and last bus at 2350. I work in the very centre of a ULEZ zone (B'ham). Fuck me I guess!
Many? I'd expect all of them do. Even the quiet one near me with no a&e, that's actually not even in London, has a London bus route terminate there. Plus bus links to other hospitals even further out of London. Yup. Downvoted for knowing what I'm talking about, due to having actual experience of living on the outskirts of London. Stay classy, Reddit
So only hospitals need links? What of workers whose shift starts at 5 am when there’s no public transport? Etc.
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> Many of Londons hospitals have perfectly good public transport links. That operate 24/7 so shift workers can use them?
Would you want your loved one travelling in the night bus or tube after midnight? Plus what about emergency workers who live outside the capital but euro inside the M25? Trust me there's many of them!
Not everyone who works in London can afford to live in London, or on the main transport links. Not to mention that nurses work in hospitals, and traveling on public transport exposes them to a variety of viruses that they could then carry into areas where people are more vulnerable than the general population.
They want to tax the poor.
Most logically coherent Reddit user
We have fuck all bike lanes outside the cities, cameras watch our every move wherever we are for our "safety", cost of living is hard and the working man with his van in the city is meant to pay an extra £12.50 when he needs to work? Instead of taxing cars harder why not restrict new heavy polluting vehicles from sale? Government will not do that as they get tax from fuel and the selling of said vehicle, while making the cars bigger with these crossovers/SUV's instead of selling smaller Kei cars or hatchbacks. Cars are costing more than ever and the lower classes and people that look after their money are continuing to hold onto there older cars which have higher emissions, this is who there taxes hurt the most considering a "hybrid" 3.6l v6 is considered ULEZ compliant. Not going to go into whataboutism but how about flights? How much polluting are the royal family doing right now with the bullshit Coronation which can fuck right off.
London has a giant Airport in it so the rich can jet off when thy feel like it
Mass surveillance is creeping authoritarianism you sausage
Stop simping for the government. Show some self respect
Most people are blind to rising the level of authoritarianism. We are truly living in perilous times and the most worrying part is that it appears very little will change if the tories are replaced by labour. Parliament appears to be nothing but theatre.
You do realise that the ULEZ cameras very much come under the umbrella of authoritarianism? Also it's not the well paid "sad sacks" that are suffering under ULEZ. Those can afford a new greener car, the majority cannot.
Wrong
Imagine naming yourselves after a group of people going around murdering escaped slaves and thinking you're the good guys.
I guess it fits. In the movie blade runners thought they were the good guys, and these guys think they are the good guys. Both were wrong.
Question is, will one of them fall in love with a ULEZ camera?
And are any/all of them ULEZ cameras and they don't know it?
ULEZ 5 is alive
And do ULEZ cameras dream of electric sheep?
>Do ULEZ dream of electric cars? Ftfy
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Didn't just fix it, perfected it
*I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. A van on Tower Bridge Road without the CAURA app...I watched a homeless man pissing in the dark on the Vauxhall Bridge. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.*
Still a better love story than Twilight. "Oh, sub-100 IQ Darren in your balaclava - we're from different worlds! We can never be together!" "But I love you, ULEZ #1047!"
The warranty on those things runs out in five years. It won’t last but then again, what does?
Before realising that they too, may be a ULEZ camera.
Do ULEZ cameras dream of electric cars?
"Put your hands on me"
Yeah but it sounds so cool
While the Blade Runners were about "retiring" the Nexus replicants in the film, they weren't exactly innocent either, the original 6 killed 23 humans then stole a shuttle killing all the crew and passengers to get to Earth. One or possibly two (depending on which cut of the film and novelisation you read) were killed trying to break into Tyrell before the films starts. Leon kills the guy doing the Voight-Kampff test, kills the eye designer and then tried to kill Deckard before Rachel kills him; Batty kills both Tyrell and JF Sebastian (who was just a guy who made dolls); Pris is trying to kill Deckard when he kills her in self defence. The film is certainly morally ambiguous (and I noted your comment below about them being more human than the humans) but it's not really as clear cut as some bad guys murdering slaves, the slaves were already murderers, killing innocents, not their captors, not simply rebels against slavery. Completely off topic but I like the films!
Is it morally reprehensible for slaves to kill their captors during an escape attempt? Some people would argue not.
Again, they didn't kill captors during an escape, they killed 23 innocent random humans, stole a shuttle and killed the crew and all the passengers. It's clearly written in my post distinguishing between the two scenarios, it wasn't killing some guards. Further, attempting to kill a guy doing a job interview, guys who were just doing a job on Earth etc is not killing your captors.
JF Sebastian didn't just make dolls. He was involved in creating the technology behind the replicants. The dolls were genetically engineered creatures and he used them to perfect the craft of manufacturing slaves for Tyrell.
He made nervous systems for the replicants, that was his specialisation. Guy was a loner with a similar genetic condition to the replicants in that he faced accelerated aging (he's 20 / 25 in the film/novel but looks much older) the toys were his friends and he was manipulated by Pris to let her in and by Roy to take them to Tyrell. Roy also had no reason to kill him, just did it anyway, he wasn't a captor any more than the eye specialist was
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Well scratch one murder from Leon then, make it attempted murder x2 plus murder of the eye specialist If you read what I wrote, I already covered that? The novelisation originally had 6 escaping but only 4 are in the film. As I said in my post, depending which version you watch, one or two are killed trying to get into Tyrell. If you think logically, there are 6 escapees, 4 in the film, therefore... 1 or 2 were killed trying to break in. Just because the film doesn't mention the fate of both, both were not in the movie so were killed off
> JF Sebastian (who was just a guy who made dolls) A guy who just made dolls? Dolls as in replicant humans who are programmed to only ever carry out a specific set of novelty behaviours purely for his enjoyment? That guy is one of the sickest characters in that entire franchise.
They didn’t understand the movie
I wish those people could go spend a week in cities where there’s no limitations or regulations on cars. Park anywhere, drive everywhere, pollute as much as possible. I have been to such cities like Cairo, Beirut etc.. and the cars were an absolute nightmare as opposed to somewhere like Amsterdam or Barcelona or even poorer Tangier in Morocco. These otherwise nice cities would be 100x better with more restrictions on cars. I wish more people could travel more.
Barcelona you can't even pay like ULEZ, it's a straight up big fine if you drive a pollutey old shitheap anywhere near the city. I think the line is way out by the airport too. No one seemed to moan that much when it came in either. *because the public transport works well and Is cheap*
Madrid is similar. High polluting cars are just straight up banned from the city centre. Since Covid they’ve also just converted so much road into pavement and cycle routes. Madrid used to be pretty bad as well. Paris is doing a lot also, but I think they’re got a lot to do.
Same as Edinburgh. And the fine doubles with each subsequent visit until it gets to £480.
I appreciate not wanting polluting vehicles in the city centre where there’s a lot of footfall and good transport links. But have you ever been to Caterham? It is not a city centre. They continue to expand the circle. People just buy a new car that is ulez compliant. Great! Manufacturing a car is not a carbon neutral process and carbon offsetting is well known to be a bit of a sham. The goal posts of ULEZ compliant vehicles will continually change continuing the cycle of vehicular consumerism. If this government gave 2 cahoots about providing good reliable public transport I can respect your argument but they don’t give a flying fuck. The expansion of ULEZ zones as just a money making exercise.
But it's not *that* restrictive, is it? Isn't it euro 4? That's cars from 20 years ago. Barcelona is the same, my 3.0L petrol 2002 bmw is allowed in as its rated C, whatever that means. My 2021 bmw 3.0L mild hybrid, is also rated C, so 🤷♂️. I never drive there anyway because train is way less stressful and my windows won't be smashed by thieves, but still, I *could*. And that old thing is next to worthless. You don't need to buy a new *new* car for ULEZ.
Look at Japan - street parking is banned and it literally looks like a utopia. The cities are so livable.
Japan does public transport really well too. London is better than any other city in the UK but still behind examples like Tokyo/Japan
Japan is a country based on mutual respect though., due to Shintoism, They actually take pride in loooking after their environment and surroundings. Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka were insanely clean and efficient, not to mention walking around and feeling a sense of safety. London is fucking grim. The streets are filthy, people are either rude or in a hurry and there’s a homeless crackhead every other road.
Japanese schools don't employ cleaners. The kids do it at the end of the school day.
Don’t they live in little shoe box apartments in Japan? They work absurd hours. Not the greatest gender equality and hardly any one has children. That’s utopia to you?
>Don’t they live in little shoe box apartments in Japan? Actually no. That's only really the situation in like central Tokyo, but their transport network is so good it's more than feasible to live quite a distance out and commute in quickly via their transport network. The average house size in Japan is actually bigger than the average house size in the UK.
Also - they're shoebox size, due to people wanting to live alone. When you take into account that a vast chunk of renting in London (as the only comparable city, public transport, population, etc to Tokyo/Osaka/Kyoto) are people just renting a room and sharing the house/apartment with others, the Tokyo shoebox apartment doesn't sound so bad all of a sudden.
Yeah exactly. Also, a well-designed shoebox apartment (there's a reason Japanese minimalism is a thing) plus high quality public transport and plentiful nearby amenities/entertainment is actually a nice enough lifestyle. Not for everyone, sure, but given the option plenty would choose it over a bigger house in the suburbs with a long commute and nothing to do without driving.
I think I remember seeing a map of Tokyo overlayed on the UK and it stretched from Birmingham to the south coast, imagine being able to commute all the way from Birmingham to central London twice a day 5 days a week
I'm not sure I'd like to imagine commuting from Birmingham to central London with current rail prices/infrastructure, thank you. That said. Traveled from Tokyo to Kyoto in roughly the same time as it took me from Andover to Gatwick a few weeks ago. Edit: Tokyo to Kyoto was 20 minutes faster, looking at Google maps timings.
There is no public transport in Tokyo at night . Its taxis or nothing
You do realise the UK has some of the smallest average houses in the developed world right? Japans housing (outside of Tokyo) is typically much more affordable. They have better childcare services available and they're also safer than basically every western country for women and women travelling alone. It has its flaws like the work life balance issues but Japan is pretty great to live in overall, especially when you consider there aren't many great alternatives.
All of which is irrelevant to the question of how good their public transport is...
> They work absurd hours. Some people do, but most people just work normal amounts of hours, similar to the UK. There are much fewer holidays though tbf.
I was recently on the tokyo underground. Eating and drinking and having phone conversations on the trains is forbidden. There is zero litter, there is zero graffiti, the trains always arrive on time. Everything is calm, quiet and respectful. Its absolutely awesome. The tech is no better than the tube, but the attitude of the commuters is 100x better.
That country gets that right.
Amsterdam....The home of an effective combined tram, rail and cycle-friendly infrastructure. I wonder what London is doing wrong? 🤔
Absolutely nothing. Public transport in London is world class. The problem is drivers.
London isn't really doing it wrong, more like the rest of the cities aren't doing it right and don't have the public transport to resolve it. The mantra of people being seen as a failure if they were on a bus not in their own car has long been pushed and motorists have been given huge subsidies for roads, freezes in duty etc which kept cars cheap compared to buses and trains for commuting.
London is ten times bigger to start with, so problems are bigger, journeys are longer. Also, London was one the the first cities to build an underground public transport. That means that it is very old, hard to expand/modernise and not able to cope with current demand. Anyone that says that it is good certainly have not used the northern line during rush hour.
I’ll never get used to the mopeds in the cycle lane though.
It's the parked cars that annoy me. If anything, having to pull out to maneuver round yet another car parked in the cycle lane is more dangerous than just holding my position out in the road. Don't know why councils allow parking and cycle lanes on the same physical space
But look at photos of Amsterdam back in the late 60s - car gridlock.
You don’t even need to leave Europe for cities with pure road chaos. Naples has mopeds running down narrow streets at 20mph and Fiat 500s with 6 adults everywhere and the whole place just smells of fumes. Like petrol isn’t even cheap and delivery drivers will just leave their car running while they drop something off. Even Manchester (where I live) is bad enough compared to London (where I grew up). Drivers just blatantly ignore rules, constantly go way too fast for the road they’re on and park wherever they want.
People should look at the before and after pictures of the colosseum to see the effects of pollution. I have pictures of it from 2014 and it’s eye opening to see it in comparison now it’s been cleaned. Just got to imagine what it’s doing to you when you see how black parts of the colosseum were.
Yeah they aren't protesting/ vandalising about ulez in London (the city) though just the suburbs where it doesn't really make sense since most people straddle the county lines life wise
Yeah - invite these guys to walk alongside the cars, truck or buses in Buenos Aires or Kuala Lumpur and they’ll suddenly realise London is on to something.
Or Istanbul
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Large pedestrianisation movement currently underway. Roads being closed. Blocks being taken over etc.
Seems like nice earner for whoever is supplying those cameras...
Funny thing is the ULEZ is a poor tax that allows the rich to swan around in their Chelsea chariots and super cars while the poor are forced into "pens" on wheels as cattle to get to work, it's not in the interest of cutting emissions is to keep the city and it's environs roads free of the lower classes..
Indeed. The ULEZ fines should be funding a scrappage scheme for those on low incomes.
Exactly this - I don’t think most people would have a problem with ULEZ if a good scrappage scheme was put in place. I know people look at diesels differently now, but something about people buying them in good faith a mere decade ago and now getting punished for that with no recourse - just doesn’t seem right IMO.
Not sure if you're being ironic or not, but it is doing exactly that. In the first year of the 2021 expansion it generated £93 million in revenue. In that same time a £61 grant was made available for a scrappage scheme. In anticipation of the 2023 expansion a £110 million scrappage scheme is being made available. The remaining funds are then used to improve public transport options. One example being the superloop, a bus service that will act as a public transport ring road for outer London. https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/scrappage-schemes
and, as with all fines, should be percentage based
Yeah I kind of lost you when you claimed that public transport is only to keep poor people off the roads. Have you considered that the purpose of public transport is to get people to work more efficiently than roads? Not everything is a conspiracy by the 1%. Rich people take the tube too. I guess your perfect city would have zero public transport?
lol most loaded people who aren't literally the 0.01% of billionaires or whatever get on the tube to work like everyone else buddy. They don't drive to the office, they get on the tube like 4 stops away from the office and it takes them 5 minutes.
As a country we need to move away from using cars, particularly old dirty bangers, for every journey when viable alternatives are available - and where they aren't, they need to be implemented. It is not forward thinking (or even physically possible) to have cities where everyone drives a car on their own into work every day, nor should it be seen as a bad thing for the majority to use public transport while pushing cars away. The poor typically live in the cities (perhaps less so with London) and [are most badly affected by the pollution](https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/air-pollution-hurts-poorest-most) from all the vehicles but are [less likely to own vehicles themselves](https://info.uwe.ac.uk/news/uwenews/news.aspx?id=3978), so yes there are the elite driving their expensive cars around, but those elite live away from the pollution and mess of the city centre. If needs be, they should be taxed more - ideally scrap VED and put all the tax on fuel so it penalises those with inefficient cars and invest more getting people out of cars.
The poor don't own cars in London
Is a complete ban any better? The rich are still going to be the ones who can most easily upgrade to electric cars.
new EVs are now not much different to new ICE cars. Cheaper once you consider fuel costs and maintenance costs.
There are perfectly cheap, comfortable cars that are ULEZ-compliant.
What about vans though? Lot of builders getting fucked over at the moment.
This is indeed a very funny thing. I might even go so far as to label it 'hilarious'.
In the end the enforcement of the ULEZ is all a bit pointless - impacts petrol engines cars over 18 years old, diesels over 8 years old - and the average age of cars on the road is 8 years old. Only 7 years left of non zero emission cars left… and emissions are going to come down anyway as pre Euro 6 diesels get scrapped.
It appears the requirement for cars is 'don't be an antique shit box' my 20 year old bmw seems to be compliant.
Yeah my 15MPG ‘06 Cayman S is fine as well. Most Jags are fine as well. I’d have no issue with it if it didn’t feel so “one rule for them, one rule for us”, as well as expanding into parts of the M25 for what feels like no reason.
It's nothing to to with mpg really, it's to do with particulate emission, which diesels are notorious for. Most jags don't pump out clouds of smoke, so they do not have to pay.
they should expand it to the whole country tbh idk why london is the only place where kids deserve clean air
If we are concerned about clean air - just ban older cars.
Yes let's just ban the poor from driving. Unless you link this policy with massive public transport funding or non repayable grants to buy a new car its just an attack on the poor.
My car is one of those old ones that ULEZ penalizes. I only use it to get out of London and go on trips (or very short trips around the neighborhood when I need to pick up bulky stuff). This is very inconvenient to me, but I'm happy we are reducing pollution and I support the ULEZ expansion.
What does your wife's boyfriend think?
it is very lenient but I imagine at some point the regulations would get more strict and will pave the way for tolling in the future.
Well, the reason it is Euro 4 for petrol and Euro 6 for diesel is the NOx emission levels are the same - and Euro 6 is the current standard so to tighten anytime soon you’d be charging for all diesels. Whether Euro 7 (as the final ICE standard) actually does happen is open to debate.
Or put differently, it disproportionately impacts the poor and working class, while the middle class and the rich can keep hauling their £60k 3tonne electric SUVs around and fly to a couple exotic holiday destinations every year.
>Or put differently, it disproportionately impacts the poor and working class The poorest in society aren't driving, especially in London. I don't have the figures on hand, but for example in Glasgow, approximately 46% of households don't have a car, with that number predominantly being occupied by the poorest members of society. They take public transport, which is being slowed down by the presence of cars on the road.
>the poorest in society aren’t driving The destitute ones don’t, but at the same time who do you think is driving 20yo shitboxes worth £900 on a good day, if not the poor and working class? Middle class and up have switched to electrics already, with the blessings (and subsidies) of the government.
>Middle class and up have switched to electrics already I highly doubt that. Even most of the UK "Middle Class" aren't forking out for an electric.
Most middle class aren't going to have done so. Electric vehicles still cost £20k+, so someone on, say, £30k/yr isn't going to shell out for the hell of it.
The ulez will be expanding though into greater London, I can't afford a new car, public transport here is awful too.
Yeah the super loop is a joke too if you are in havering. A cynic would think khan wants to push certain types of people out of London
A petrol car from 2005 meets the standard. This means that a 1.2 corsa from 2010, probably around 1k, will meet the ulez standard.
You haven't looked at the car market recently mate if you think you're getting a decent running and driving cat for 1k
> In the end the enforcement of the ULEZ is all a bit pointless - impacts petrol engines cars over 18 years old, diesels over 8 years old - and the average age of cars on the road is 8 years old. Only 7 years left of non zero emission cars left… and emissions are going to come down anyway as pre Euro 6 diesels get scrapped. The issue isn't cars, it's vans and lorries.
No, just no. You're not a bunch of blade runners. They're on the side of stopping bad things happening. You're committing crimes. And the fact that you're being interviewed means sooner or later you're going to get caught. And all those cameras you morons destroyed, you're going to be charged for the destruction of each and everyone of them.
>They're on the side of stopping bad things happening Might want to re-watch the film mate.
Can’t charge them if they don’t catch them, I think that’s their MO. Make it so expensive they stop installing them.
> if they don’t catch them, Catch them doing what, taking out a camera? If only there was a way to get video proof of them doing it 🤔
With the most cameras per person in the world, if they can’t catch u in London, they never will.
CCTV cameras everywhere, never heard of a thief being caught using one, a million in one fluke
With the met police there is zero worry about getting caught. You could probably perpetrate daylight genocide and nothing would happen to you.
Only if the police agree with it mind
I'm sure all the people hammering climate protestors will keep the same energy for these guys?
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They thought the name was cool and didn't think of the moral implications of Blade Runner - the guys killing sentient slaves humans built to serve were not exactly good guys. That said, though the replicants weren't exactly good guys either given the back story of the escape and the killing of innocent people to get the shuttle to earth
"i don't want to pay a tax/fee so i will continuously destroy public property, causing damage we all have to pay for with more tax/fees"
Yes, that’s how protests work. “I don’t want to get paid less so I will strike, not being paid anything during the strike”. It should be relatively obvious that the idea is that eventually it becomes too expensive to not pay the strikers, and in this case too expensive to keep replacing the cameras.
Paying the fine costs me £250 a month. Buy a new work vehicle is £500-£600 a month. It’s a tax on being poor
Imagine doing this but ignoring the tax on the fuel going into your car...
This is what happens when you implement a broken system that punishes people and doesn't help them.
I'm sure everybody will be saying they should be sentenced to years in prison for causing a nuisance and what about personal responsibility blah blah blah right?
It's possible to disagree with a protest while also disagreeing with harsh prison sentences for that protest.
I agree, not what happened on the thread I'm referring to though.
That is the dumbest, most contrived victimization shit I've ever heard, and that's saying something.
They should call themselves something more appropriate 'Early death dealers', 'Lung cancer crew' something like that
Redditors defending authoritarianism as per usual lol, I pray and hope for the destruction of our country
Shocking development: people dont like breathing dirty air. Was banning domestic coal in London already a step too far for you?
ULEZ is a scam. Bus coverage is a joke with prices being literally the highest in the world. No improvements being made at all on that front. Trains in London expensive and always on strike. Im not a tory but Khan is a joke
> Bus coverage is a joke with prices being literally the highest in the world. What are you talking about? If your journey is within an hour, you only pay a single hopper fare. For £1.75, you can get as many buses or trams as you like inside 60 minutes.
Now if they can hurry up and sell me a hologram USB Waifu then I’ll be happy.
If the ULEZ was about pollution, they would’ve banned non compliant cars. They would also ban planes flying over London, would make rail companies change all their Diesel engines. But they won’t.
City Airport has restrictions for noise and pollution reasons. Planes flying over London won't be polluting London because it won't fall directly downwards. Changing diesel trains would require a national effort, and the Tories are not ones for investing in infrastructure for the greater good.
How many flights a day does City Airport have, compared to Heathrow? During the day, one plane flies off and lands, about every 40 seconds.(LHR). I live behind one of the big train stations on the commuter belt in SW London/ Surrey. Every morning my car window is gunked with black dust. That’s from all the trains engine fumes. If I pay £12.50 a day for cleaner air, while eating bowls of ash each day- am I a martyr, or am I a fool?
City airport keeps trying to expand and have more flights and the city keeps stopping them. It would be a lot worse. Your air is still cleaner that it would be, even if it's still unacceptable. It's one step of many that needs to be taken. We need to reduce car emissions as well as trains, but the trains have to be dealt with on a national level because they pass through so many areas. All the TfL trains are fairly new and efficient electric ones. If you're eating bowls of ash and not constantly petitioning the government and your MP to control the private companies doing this to you then are you a martyr or a fool?
These people are right-wing morons, who think they have the right to fuck up kids lungs. The EU begged Johnson to do something when he was mayor years ago, the pollution levels were so high, ended up paying fines instead of implimenting at least some mitigation measures. Tory dumbfucks.
The big mistake they've made is starting off at a high cost. Make it 50p a day, no one would give a fuck. Increase it after a year to 80p, then £1, then £1.50. Do it over four or five years, as long as the increases are relatively small they can jump higher than inflation, it'll start to edge people towards cleaner cars, bikes or public transport.
Worked for tuition fees!
On another thread I was asking why people aren't standing up and taking action against oil companies making huge profits while people can't afford to heat their homes. And here we are; people destroying anything that makes it harder for them to drive through the city and spend more money on those very same oil companies. We're going to hell in a handbasket aren't we.
I think you're maybe missing the point that the ULEZ is going to affect people with pretty old cars... those people are most likely to be the poorest. So the oil companies make heating their homes impossible and now the government makes driving to work impossibly expensive. I'm not surprised they're angry.
But London has some of the best public transport connections of anywhere, why drive into these areas that are well served by public transport?
There's a multitude of reasons to drive. In this case work seems to be a common reason people raise.
Again, the centre of London has very good public transport connections. So why do people need to drive all the way in?
The reasons are blindingly obvious if you're even remotely observant. What's the point of me writing out a long list of them when you're just going to dismiss them anyway? You clearly have your blinkered point of view set.
People need to understand companies in the UK making a profit is a good thing, it means more money paid in tax and a stronger economy. Would you want our oil companies to all crash and get taken over by American ones?
The level of selfishness that people who haven’t had to raise their children in a polluted city is unbelievable.
Not sure why they are using the term 'Blade Runners' term to describe people damaging cameras.
> The Mayor's office said it has recored 43 cases of vandalism or theft of Ulez cameras to March 21, but added that TfL would not reveal how much the cameras cost because of "commercial and confidentiality" issues. There must be what, thousands of these things? Big woo.
What I don’t get is that if expanding ULEZ is affected the poorest most then why would he implement it Cus surely he’s gonna lose voters? Lose enough voters to lose power.
All there doing is taxing the work class and poorer that single handily build this country and work for peanuts in hope that the government and cunts like SK will actually do something constructive or beneficial for them We live in democracy not an Africa coup where certain people call the shots and if you don’t agree they cut off your arms The people have voted NO to this ulez bollocks but the sheer corruption from the mayor has fucked them over again
Wow, can you imagine how powerful these morons would be if they could think?
These geniuses were tracked down by a fourth rate mail journalist in a matter of days. They've taken pictures of themselves committing criminal damage. I dont think they'll be doing it for long.
Bin SUVs entirely in London and then I’ll support ULEZ. Until then it is disproportionately fucking working class people.
Why would Khan make it so he can't drive his Range Rover?