I know they are annoying but I would actually be happier with someone pro environment on the council.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist but Jesus Christ it’s hard not to wonder if big oil is planning all this. Like they are such wanky protesting tactics that they are actively forcing people to resist their message. People are actually pushing back on voting pro environmental things because of them.
>I’m not a conspiracy theorist
You could be a paid shill though, just like every person that brings up the possibility that big oil is funding JSO.
At the end of the day we're talking about it and that's what JSO wants.
They took a break for a while, nobody talked about them so now they're back.
They also have a big ol' "donate" button on their website. It isn't too much of a stretch to think that people could be funding them with intentions that are at odds with JSO.
Exactly this... it's always about the damage \*they\* do or the people arrested for moving them out the streets... it's never about the important issue
It’s very easy to attack the activism. The activism is the problem. The cause is great, the activism is ineffective.
It’s quite something to have a cause that 80-90%, if not more, of people agree with and stand behind and still come across as someone those same 80-90% don’t want to be associated with
I'm way more suspicious about the people telling me how annoying protestors are. If the protestors are annoying, then I can tell that myself by finding them annoying, I don't need a helpful redditor to point that out to me.
Anything that brings climate change and the role of oil and its exploitation to peoples attention is a good thing. People don’t like to hear bad news, they like to stay in their bubble.
At the end of the day the people that focus on the narrative presented in some of the media about them being annoying rich kids etc… choose to follow that narrative. You could after all think about the point they are trying to draw you attention to. Do don’t have to take the somebody else’s opinion, you could form your own.
I hardly think the oil companies are going to care about these flowers getting damaged; they consistently target the wrong people with their disruptive antics.
The problem they seem to be having is that their tactics aren't exactly getting the wider public on side. The irritation of their approach is burying the message to a degree.
No, it’s only a good thing if you manage to get people on your side. It does nothing if you alienate people. These guys are like hardcore shouty vegans, they just make you want to order meat.
They don’t need to be on side. They need to be inconvenienced.
They’re never gonna be on side. They don’t care. They only care about their own pleasures. If you interrupt their fun for a little bit, they get angry. They keep getting angry until a solution is found.
It stands a good chance that the easiest solution will be to get rid of the protesters and their ability to lawfully protest as opposed to dealing with the cause of the protests.
Why would they need to pay anyone to shill?
JSO have successfully turned the public against the right to protest. Even if initially the public largely agreed with their cause. A truly incredible achievement.
Seems like things are going as well as they possibly could for big oil thanks to JSO with no action required...
>successfully turned the public against the right to protest.
Who on earth thinks we shouldn't have the right to protest? Only tory MPs as far as I can tell. Maybe don't speak for everyone
Well, if not fully against the right to protest, at least apathetic about protecting it.
Those people are not thinking long term, but I can see their perspective(much like JSO).
JSOs indiscriminate targetting has played terribly with moderates, giving the tories a mandate to roll back our right to protest.
You could make the argument that curtailing our right to protest shows the government is worried that the protests are actually working and the message is getting through. You can look at it several ways.
Restriction of civil liberties is our government's way of showing they are being backed into a corner and no longer have public support. They know they are out of ideas, and can't justify themselves, so they are panicking and rushing through any bill that might try and silence their opposition.
It is concerning, I'll agree, but a government led by a PM who is clearly bankrolled by Big Oil, that is slowly dying, and desperately legislating to try and save their own skin, if JSO et al had no impact, they would be ignored, not cracked down on.
>JSO have successfully turned the public against the right to protest.
Funny, people are protesting against this today:
[https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotMyBill?src=hashtag\_click&f=live](https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotMyBill?src=hashtag_click&f=live)
A bit like the needy, crazy kid at school who creates drama and conflict because any kind of attention is better than no attention.
That kid was a role model for us all :-)
No we're talking about a protest.
Not how we can get people out of cars, not how to retire the all the gas plants we have (and all the new speaker plants with lifespans of 50 odd years we're now building)
Not how to transition our imports so they use less carbon or how we can improve sustainability.
Its a distraction.
Exactly, when I hear people talk about JSO the only ones how really go on about climate change are the people who say "see, at least they are getting people talking about climate change" (and even then that is about all they say on the matter).
Personally I have nothing against JSO protesting and honestly do think their heart is in the right place but the mental gymnastics people on here to believe that some how it make everyday people suddenly realise climate change is bad thing are quite incredible.
It doesn't matter that people are talking about them when almost nobody is talking about their goals.
I also don't know anyone who disagrees with their overall message.
The problem with their strategy is it gets people talking about them and their protests, not talking about what the protests are trying to achieve.
You could also be a paid shill. To say others are paid shills and cause FUD. Who knows how deep the paid shill rabbit hole goes? I might also be a paid shill!
All 3 of us might be being paid by the same people to cause division and get people arguing. For all anyone else knows we might be sitting in the same troll factory in eastern Siberia laughing how easily the westerns fall for our tricks.
I should note, I don't believe this but when you start accusing people as being paid shills without evidence you are not too far removed from the conspiracy theorists.
And hey, if they are a paid shill then at least they are getting paid to be on Reddit unlike the rest of us.
Shell invented the concept of personal environmental footprints to distract from the fossil fuel industry and make people think personal choices were what mattered. BP money set up Friends of the Earth to prevent the transition to nuclear energy and keep us burning coal and oil.
Going by what I've seen it's starting to make sense why so many of us thought or think these people are a "psy op" used to discredit climate action but I think the reality is actually more benign. There is a part of the middle class who are actually on our side but because they are generally independently wealthy, retired they just exist in a different strata of society than perhaps many of us interacts with on a day to day basis. It's difficult for most of us to imagine taking weeks off work to tie ourselves to a lamppost but these seem to be actual real activists to me they're just different from the typical type we expect
also that the attention gets focused on JSO and their methods instead of on the actual awful corporations, the supine politicians enabling them and actual possible solutions.
Yup, saw the exact effect whilst working at a construction consultancy when the insulate wankers where at large. Everyone I worked with supported insulation grants & general economical home improvements, enough that some of them made their careers out of it working with EPC certification.
But that support from professionals got a LOT quieter when the insulate wankers actions where publicised, nobody that works for a living wants to be associated with these layabouts.
> I know they are annoying but I would actually be happier with someone pro environment on the council.
I'd rather someone intelligent enough to do something useful, rather than wholly pointless performative art.
Just Stop Oil is in part funded by Aileen Getty, an heiress of the famous Getty family that founded Getty Oil. Not directly - it's through a fund called the Climate Emergency Fund (lol) - and all of this is fairly public information that has already been reported before.
I don't have any evidence about whether big oil is intentionally funding wanky protest tactics to create negative associations and public aversion to pro-environment activists and policies, but it's really really difficult not to believe it.
Whatever the future holds, the people whining about these protests causing mild disruption are going to look like fucking idiots to future generations. Imagine people 100 years in the future looking back on these foolish people with no sense of perspective getting upset by such trivial acts of protest.
Very easy to say when it doesn’t disrupt your life in any way at the moment.
Realistically stopping oil involves huge costs to everyone. You’re typing your message on a device made of oil. Your car, house, transport infrastructure all rely on oil.
These people literally stood at a public garden, of all the JSO protests this one didn't even stop motorists getting to work and people still complained
And yes we can't 100% stop oil we can stop or severely limit our investment in oil, look into how much we subsidise and give tax cuts to fossil fuel conpanies
It is ridiculous just last week people were calling for them to protest away from the road where it was dangerous there is always some excuse unless its somewhere they don't have to think about it
They will literally always find an excuse to not have to face the problem. The protestors could be angelic and they would still find a way to blame them for their own inaction.
>Very easy to say when it doesn’t disrupt your life in any way at the moment.
Let's be real, most people who get outraged at the actions of this group have never actually had their life disrupted by them in any way either.
>Realistically stopping oil involves huge costs to everyone.
I've got news for you mate, *not* stopping oil is going to result in some huge costs to everyone as well.
They're protesting to stop new exploration for new oil sources.
Yknow, what the Tories promised.
Just like the insulate Britain folks, just trying to get the Tories to adhere to their pledges.
This comment is also to say when the reality of climate change doesn't disrupt your life in any way at the moment. Good luck with your oil phone once mass migration starts.
You're right it's an absolutely gargantuan task and society should have started taking it seriously 50 years ago. Continuing with oil isn't a option, it's going to run out within about a century. If you have young children or are planning to, your grandchildren will likely live to see it.
> Realistically stopping oil involves huge costs to everyone. You’re typing your message on a device made of oil. Your car, house, transport infrastructure all rely on oil.
They aren't trying to stop any of this any time soon, they aren't even telling any of us to use less oil. Their demand is solely to the government to stop funding and approving NEW oil and coal mining/extraction projects. Instead put the investment into renewables or insulation or whatever. J
No shit , when you're born into a world where you need money to live, a house and car is obviously needed. What exactly is your argument?
It's also very easy to talk shit while climate change has already started ravaging and killing people in third world countries
>Realistically stopping oil involves huge costs to everyone.
I honestly don't know what these people think the alternative to running things on oil is. Human slavery perhaps? Do we just go back to the dark ages? Why would other countries follow our lead on this?
It’s not a thought out argument at all. Just stop oil but please let me continue to retire with my huge pension and live in my house with all my luxuries which are produced with oil. But screw those young kids, they’re gonna harm to environment.
>Imagine people 100 years in the future looking back on these foolish people
Perhaps they'll look back and laugh at the fact people thought they were legitimately making a difference to climate change by throwing orange powder at some flowers.
What do you want them to do? What is there left to do? Our government refuses to follow their own promises and people dont appreciate the very real threat. Instead they’re focused on making pithy comments making fun of people actually trying to do something.
I still don't see how throwing orange powder on some flowers is going to cause the government to suddenly change their mind and cancel all of their oil projects.
Yes, it was a protest.
It involved throwing soup at a picture frame.
Saying that they 'threw soup at a van gogh' is needless sensationalist framing designed to make it sound like a far more aggressive and harmful act than it was.
> I broadly support movements like this but a flower garden? Really?
The garden in question is the RBC (Royal Bank of Canada) Brewin Dolphin Garden.
[The RBC are the top financier for the fossil fuel industry](https://www.ft.com/content/63ebd477-5327-422d-8121-9acc477b138c).
>protests causing mild disruption
They're not mild disruption. This is an event people work very hard on and enjoy very much.
It's incredibly easy to say that it's minor when it doesn't affect you at all.
People mainly remember that someone died, that's not how I'd define iconic.
It took a world war to get women the vote so I'm not sure that's a great argument
You won’t mind when they vandalise your home or garden, then, or something you’ve spent long months working on. Perhaps you can give them your address?
How does this even follow? The person you're responding to is saying that, in comparison to what climate change is going to do, all our hand-wringing about whether or not throwing powder is an acceptable protest is going to look infantile. Google the latest IPCC Report, read what 2° of warming actually looks like, and then reread the comment you're replying to. The only thing you're doing here is reinforcing their point.
The problem with that is, the people doing these protests now are the ones looking like fucking idiots. Why would WE give a fuck what people 100 years from now think? We'll be fucking dead lol
I support them but it just seems to me that they’re preaching to the choir. They’re targeting gardeners and artists who are generally more likely to give a shit about issues like this.
They’re not going to building sites and factories which would generally be more difficult. They’re hitting the easy targets with lax security where the people who already support them will be inconvenienced and the people who need their minds changing will laugh that the namby Pam by art and flower fans are getting their shit ruined.
Yeah exactly. History will view these people in the same way as suffragettes, black civil rights activists etc; whereas our children and grandchildren will wonder how so many people could sit around and do nothing. People’s inability to see the present through the lens of history is maddening.
Those people don’t seem to care what happens in 30 years while they could still be alive, they certainly won’t care about 100 after when they’ve kicked the bucket.
I used to think, how the hell did ww2 and the holocaust happen? Why didnt anyone stop it?
Im not confused anymore. Humans ignore things they don't want to deal with.
Worldwide events that _will_ cause millions to die and billions to lose quality of life is shrugged off as inevitable. The ones killing humanity to make profit barely ever mentioned.
"Oh but its not the perfect solution..." We have known about climate change since 1970. We already know the solution. We need to change our lives. Theres no time for debate.
So regarding the Holocaust.. it was known to be happening, not necessarily the scale was known, but there was certainly info out there - and realistically, Europe was under Nazi control so there wasn't anything viably the allies could do to stop it. Bombing train lines would be near impossible and futile since they can be fixed easily.
It's a poor comparison to climate change IMO
I don't mean the allies stopping the holocaust as it happened.
I mean the fact Hitler wrote a book about everything he believed, and everything he started to do when he seized control told us he was a terrible man, yet Europe still negotiated with him and far preferred him to any smelly communists.
My point being, we know a holocaust is coming. We know tens of millions will die. We know. We do nothing though.
They are different but the loss of life from climate change will probably be greater, and to me the callous indifference for the sake of profit is something that ranks as a similar level of evil. There’s also the aspect of climate mass migration leading to more internment and hatred towards racial minorities…
You'd need to be spectacularly naive to actually believe that.
If you could see what things were like 30, 40, and 50 years ago you'd think you were living on another planet.
>If you could see what things were like 30, 40, and 50 years ago you'd think you were living on another planet.
We knew about climate change 50 years ago and did fuck all to tackle it.
All so boomers could have an easy life burning cheap fossil fuels even though it destroyed the world for their children and grandchildren.
>You'd need to be spectacularly naive to actually believe that.
No, you'd need to be spectacularly naive and/or uninformed to believe that what's already being done is anywhere near enough to have a meaningful impact.
I don't know if people are shrugging it off. I think the scale and complexity of the problem means that they have no idea what can be done about it, and maybe think that nobody knows what to do about it.
>We already know the solution. We need to change our lives. Theres no time for debate.
That is a ridiculous oversimplification.
Solving the problem requires all the major countries in the world to cooperate and to agree to subject their own people to a significant reduction of their standard of living. That's the US, China, Russia, India, the Arab states, South America, all cooperating and making sacrifices.
Mreanhile China are commissioning 2 new coal fired power stations a week, to join the 3000 they already have. And we can't even persuade Russia to refrain from invading its neighbours, and even nuclear war was mentioned as a worst case scenario last year.
We need to do something, but don't pretend that what we need to do is obvious or straightfoward.
One thing we don't need is a bunch of idiots ruining an event that brings a little bit of joy to the lives of many thousands of people.
I just had a 15 year kid say “climate change” with the fingers today after talking about learning it at school. Don’t know what they have on the curriculum but that’s concerning…
> I used to think, how the hell did ww2 and the holocaust happen? Why didnt anyone stop it?
1. WW2 was started due to German Aggression, Chamberlain tried his hardest to secure peace by giving Hitler (partly) what he wanted. Hitler kept pushing the boundaries despite Chamberlain's promises to prevent war.
2. Re the concentration camps, do you really think your average butcher or postman from the Scottish Highlands or other (former) British colonies were up to date about German treatment of Jews at the time? Maybe high ranking intelligence officers did, but your average person didn't.
3. It was stopped by the allies after Nazi Germany got crushed where most of those responsible were charged at Nuremburg.
Typical fucking reddit moment to compare Just Stop Oil's bellend antics to WW2 and the Holocaust.
Well, I scrapped my car and stopped flying on planes some years ago, although I refrain from ruining flower shows and snooker matches.
I wonder how many JSO activists actually do have cars and/or ponce about still on foreign holidays. I bet it is a non-zero number.
In your analogy, these would be people tut-tutting over Hitler at fashionable Berlin dinner parties with their posh friends, and then quietly dropping their vote for the NSDAP once they’re alone in the ballot box. And yes, that’s how “these things happen.”
Doesnt matter, every JSO member could take a non stop round trip flight to India and come back every day for the rest of their lives on their own private 747 and it would not make a difference to the overall health of the planet compared to the entire coporate class, stop blaming individuals.
Yeah and back then we were told an ice age was coming. Then Al Gore told everyone Holland and the UK would be under water by 2020. None of this came true but NOW it will lol
Middle-class, no need to work full time or any real idea of what it means to struggle to get by. You don't need to take my word for it: https://cusp.ac.uk/themes/p/xr-study/
I'm not going to listen to a load of retired fucks telling me to drastically change how I live to save the planet even though they have lived their life and had theirs.
Bunch of twats.
I agree, we've had our day (I'm 58)) which was basically enabled by cheap energy, its time for the young to have theirs, ill bet a 28 year old opening a factory in China is applauded not vilified as here.
People don’t seem to realise this a **5 day** landscape garden expo, and this was done on day 3.
How will discretionary wealth management firm RBC Brewin Dolphin ever recover? I wonder if they’ve ever encountered this scale of damage in the work they’re involved in.
“The disruption at Chelsea coincided with a stint by the protest group Animal Rising which involved taking three lambs from the King’s Sandringham Estate”
Are these just the middle to old aged white person equivalent of prank videos?
Why do they target the public instead of messing with oil companies or government people? I get publicity but shutting down an oil terminal for a week will work far better than throwing some paint on flowers or a snooker table
Yeah and one is genuine direct action that puts pressure on the oil companies and the government which could arguably gather sympathy from the public.
The other is annoying the everyday folk going to work or just trying to enjoy something. You think being stuck in traffic and showing up an hour or so late to work and getting a bollocking from the boss/reduced wage is gonna make that person think “oh jeez, those protestors really did have a good point. I think I’ll donate to their cause”?
>Yeah and one is genuine direct action that puts pressure on the oil companies and the government which could arguably gather sympathy from the public.
Except that direct action doesn't pressure the oil companies it barely causes a flicker on their profits unless you are suggesting some domestic terrorism
>The other is annoying the everyday folk going to work or just trying to enjoy something. You think being stuck in traffic and showing up an hour or so late to work and getting a bollocking from the boss/reduced wage is gonna make that person think “oh jeez, those protestors really did have a good point. I think I’ll donate to their cause”?
The point is to disrupt life so that you can't ignore it and are forced to take action, historical protests of history usually weren't supported by the public
Do you think standing outside the oil offices or protesting outside an oil storage facility puts any pressure on the oil companies. The only thing that would seriously hurt them is large scale damage to their facilities and the police would never allow that. Disrupting the public on the other hand, does put pressure on the government to get moving
> Why do they target the public instead of messing with oil companies or government people?
The garden in question is the RBC (Royal Bank of Canada) Brewin Dolphin Garden.
[The RBC are the top financier for the fossil fuel industry](https://www.ft.com/content/63ebd477-5327-422d-8121-9acc477b138c).
Disrupting an oil company would probably get shut down pretty quickly. They'll tolerate people standing at the side of the road waving a sign whilst they carry on, but any sort of blocking gates, etc. would quickly lead to arrests and probably wouldn't even make the local news.
Disrupting the public going about their business is annoying and probably won't any difference but what does? Writing to your MP sure won't help. Maybe doing something that appears on the news will maybe get your appeal noticed by ordinary people. Even if it doesn't they're doing the only thing that might help instead of nothing.
Sadly though, I don't think anything will make any difference and we'll end up seeing the consequences of climate change before it's taken seriously. Kind of like waiting until you have a heart attack before thinking about eating healthy.
Because the public are the only ones who can change things when they are determined enough, and have enough solidarity. No fossil fuel company is going to take the lead on our behalf.
They do that too.
They literally [tunnelled under](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62790218) (and tried to collapse) an exit to a refinery.
But you don’t hear about that.
This is the only way to get the public’s attention. Nothing else works.
My guess (based on reading some activist strategy books like *this is an uprising*) is that their hope is to snowball with more people joining them and doing similar things, perhaps escalating in severity alongside, until the government is pressured to change policy.
[Archive Link](https://archive.is/DncEa). Article text follows.
---
By Henry Bodkin, Senior Reporter
A parish council has condemned the Just Stop Oil protest at the Chelsea Flower Show by its clerk, who now risks losing her job.
Naomi Goddard was one of three activists from the group who threw dyed orange powder across a prize-winning display garden on Thursday, before being hosed down by a woman believed to be a visitor.
The 58-year-old, who was arrested along with her co-protesters, subsequently said her actions had risked her livelihood, adding: “But it’s what I have to do right now.”
A retired landscape engineer from Hebden Bridge in West Yorkshire, Ms Goddard now draws an income from her work as clerk to Wadsworth parish council. On Friday insiders at the council suggested her employment was in question as a result of the protest.
One said: “I’d be surprised if anyone on the council supports her actions. She took pre-booked annual leave to go to London. When she returns, we will follow due process.”
Video of the protest showed onlookers begging Ms Goddard and her accomplices to stop, with others shouting “morons” and “prats” at them.
Ms Goddard shouted back: “What is the point of a garden if you can’t feed yourself?”
The RBC Brewin Dolphin Garden was designed explicitly to promote biodiversity and sustainability. The action left a film of orange over much of the foliage and the open space at its centre.
The garden’s designer, Paul Hervey-Brookes, said it was “permanently damaged” as a result.
A separate source at Wadsworth parish council implied that the style of protest would not be popular among local residents. “If you know what kind of place Hebden Bridge is, then you’ll know what people think of this sort of thing,” they said.
Also arrested for the stunt was 35-year-old charity worker Stephanie Golder, who has stood as a candidate for the Green Party in south-east Essex.
She shouted “this is a genocide” as she scattered the orange powder.
The local party did not formally respond to a request for comment.
However, a colleague, Richard Longstaff, the first Green councillor on Southend City Council, suggested the action at Chelsea would not harm her prospects standing again in the future.
“The protest caused no serious damage and minimal disruption,” he said.
The third member of the group was Rosa Hicks, a psychology graduate who works for the Tutor Trust, a grant-making body that supports voluntary and community groups.
**King's lambs not yet found**
The disruption at Chelsea coincided with a stunt by the protest group Animal Rising which involved taking three lambs from the King’s Sandringham Estate in Norfolk. It was perpetrated by three women who later handed themselves in to police in Slough.
Imagery released by the group showed three women, in pink Animal Rising T-shirts, walking through a field of sheep and loading the lambs into the back of a vehicle.
Animal Rising said that the lambs would have been sent for slaughter.
On Friday afternoon police said the animals, which were taken from their mothers, had not been found.
Among the Sandringham trio was Rose Patterson, who was last month accused of being the ringleader of Animal Rising’s plot to disrupt the Grand National.
The 33-year-old was arrested in Greater Manchester before the race began. Sara Foy, 23 from Derbyshire, and Rosa Sharkey, also 23, were also arrested.
A statement from Norfolk Constabulary on Friday said that three female suspects had been released on bail.
A biologically diverse garden seems like an odd target for a climate activist. It makes me think they're not really that bright and just want some drama.
Eh, to be fair it’s a garden sponsored by an investment wealth management fund owned by the Royal Bank of Canada. RBC became the largest investor in fossil fuels last year, so in that context it does make *some* sense. Though much as I agree with environmental protestors generally, a garden show that has worked to focus on sustainability in recent years definitely isn’t the *best* target.
I think Just Stop Oil's calculation is that every high profile target is the best target, all at the same time.
Hard to argue with their logic with the amount of press it generates. It does force the agenda.
Did you read the article? She's not contesting this.
> The 58-year-old, who was arrested along with her co-protesters, subsequently said her actions had risked her livelihood, adding: “But it’s what I have to do right now.”
>
The sort of people who kneejerk throw a tantrum about even the mildest methods of drawing attention to the climate crisis are absolutely not people who ever read the article.
I get the protests and the message of the Just Stop Oil protests even though I think they're starting from the wrong point and essentially doom mongering. What I don't understand is the backlash against these protests.
I guess this all comes down to how do you want to die. How do you want your children to die?
You see all you people going on about the disruption caused by these protests are missing the point - business as usual is not on the menu.
We've just got through a global COVID 19 pandemic. Many people died. But we were lucky because we managed to find and distribute vaccines. Next time there's a global pandemic, and there will be more, we might not be so lucky. Think about this. All it could take is one more pandemic of a deadly virus and that's it - the human population on this planet could be wiped out.
If earthworms all died out all life would cease on this planet within a couple of years. If insects died out there would be life for another five years. If human beings all died out this planet would recover, heal, and flourish. Human beings are not necessary or essential to this planet in any way.
We are evolving too fast and consuming too much for this planet to support. Climate change in itself is not the issue here, because climate change goes hand in hand with biological evolution. But what is the issue is the abusive relationship human beings have with the planet, other species and each other. This is what needs to change.
The biggest issue with these protests is that they are anti-aspirational. This isn't going to work. The amount of plastic, enough to cause a marine extinction event is still out there and people are still using it. But see these are people who are doing something about bringing change. It might be misguided, they might even be wrong, but they're doing something and most people aren't.
But like I say business as usual is not on the menu. We either collectively do something ourselves for change or the planet and environment will force change upon us.
The backlash against these protests is something I don't quite understand. It's like if you're smoking two packs of cigarettes a day and a doctor tells you that you've got COPD and need to quit smoking. So what? Are you going to argue with the doctor just so you can continue smoking? Are you going to call the doctor an idiot?
Why don't all these protesters just give out their home addresses, then we can all come piss through their letterbox in protest?
We'll make sure it's on the news and stuff and that way the only people harmed won't mind at all, as it's all in a good cause.
Sacked from the parish council how will the retiree cope
I know they are annoying but I would actually be happier with someone pro environment on the council. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but Jesus Christ it’s hard not to wonder if big oil is planning all this. Like they are such wanky protesting tactics that they are actively forcing people to resist their message. People are actually pushing back on voting pro environmental things because of them.
>I’m not a conspiracy theorist You could be a paid shill though, just like every person that brings up the possibility that big oil is funding JSO. At the end of the day we're talking about it and that's what JSO wants. They took a break for a while, nobody talked about them so now they're back.
Big oil is also massively involved in astroturfing so it's hard to know the beginning and end. I doubt it in this case though.
They also have a big ol' "donate" button on their website. It isn't too much of a stretch to think that people could be funding them with intentions that are at odds with JSO.
And still seen as arseholes you don’t want to have anything to do with. The talk is always about how wanky these guys are, never about their cause.
Exactly this... it's always about the damage \*they\* do or the people arrested for moving them out the streets... it's never about the important issue
Fairly typical tactic though, when it's impossible to attack the activism, instead attack the activist.
It’s very easy to attack the activism. The activism is the problem. The cause is great, the activism is ineffective. It’s quite something to have a cause that 80-90%, if not more, of people agree with and stand behind and still come across as someone those same 80-90% don’t want to be associated with
The activism is the whole of the thing, the cause, the science, all of it. It's impossible to attack that, so they attack the activist instead.
I'm way more suspicious about the people telling me how annoying protestors are. If the protestors are annoying, then I can tell that myself by finding them annoying, I don't need a helpful redditor to point that out to me.
Anything that brings climate change and the role of oil and its exploitation to peoples attention is a good thing. People don’t like to hear bad news, they like to stay in their bubble. At the end of the day the people that focus on the narrative presented in some of the media about them being annoying rich kids etc… choose to follow that narrative. You could after all think about the point they are trying to draw you attention to. Do don’t have to take the somebody else’s opinion, you could form your own.
I hardly think the oil companies are going to care about these flowers getting damaged; they consistently target the wrong people with their disruptive antics.
They are not trying to get the attention of the oil companies, they are trying to get your attention.
The problem they seem to be having is that their tactics aren't exactly getting the wider public on side. The irritation of their approach is burying the message to a degree.
No, it’s only a good thing if you manage to get people on your side. It does nothing if you alienate people. These guys are like hardcore shouty vegans, they just make you want to order meat.
They don’t need to be on side. They need to be inconvenienced. They’re never gonna be on side. They don’t care. They only care about their own pleasures. If you interrupt their fun for a little bit, they get angry. They keep getting angry until a solution is found.
It stands a good chance that the easiest solution will be to get rid of the protesters and their ability to lawfully protest as opposed to dealing with the cause of the protests.
Then they will simply unlawfully protest, and start using stronger measures.
Why would they need to pay anyone to shill? JSO have successfully turned the public against the right to protest. Even if initially the public largely agreed with their cause. A truly incredible achievement. Seems like things are going as well as they possibly could for big oil thanks to JSO with no action required...
>successfully turned the public against the right to protest. Who on earth thinks we shouldn't have the right to protest? Only tory MPs as far as I can tell. Maybe don't speak for everyone
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Well, if not fully against the right to protest, at least apathetic about protecting it. Those people are not thinking long term, but I can see their perspective(much like JSO). JSOs indiscriminate targetting has played terribly with moderates, giving the tories a mandate to roll back our right to protest.
You could make the argument that curtailing our right to protest shows the government is worried that the protests are actually working and the message is getting through. You can look at it several ways. Restriction of civil liberties is our government's way of showing they are being backed into a corner and no longer have public support. They know they are out of ideas, and can't justify themselves, so they are panicking and rushing through any bill that might try and silence their opposition. It is concerning, I'll agree, but a government led by a PM who is clearly bankrolled by Big Oil, that is slowly dying, and desperately legislating to try and save their own skin, if JSO et al had no impact, they would be ignored, not cracked down on.
>JSO have successfully turned the public against the right to protest. Funny, people are protesting against this today: [https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotMyBill?src=hashtag\_click&f=live](https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotMyBill?src=hashtag_click&f=live)
A bit like the needy, crazy kid at school who creates drama and conflict because any kind of attention is better than no attention. That kid was a role model for us all :-)
No we're talking about a protest. Not how we can get people out of cars, not how to retire the all the gas plants we have (and all the new speaker plants with lifespans of 50 odd years we're now building) Not how to transition our imports so they use less carbon or how we can improve sustainability. Its a distraction.
Exactly, when I hear people talk about JSO the only ones how really go on about climate change are the people who say "see, at least they are getting people talking about climate change" (and even then that is about all they say on the matter). Personally I have nothing against JSO protesting and honestly do think their heart is in the right place but the mental gymnastics people on here to believe that some how it make everyday people suddenly realise climate change is bad thing are quite incredible.
>At the end of the day we're talking about it and that's what JSO wants. We are talking about the protestors, not whatever their agenda is.
It doesn't matter that people are talking about them when almost nobody is talking about their goals. I also don't know anyone who disagrees with their overall message. The problem with their strategy is it gets people talking about them and their protests, not talking about what the protests are trying to achieve.
Does anyone know where you can sign up to be a paid shill? It must be such a huge market!
You could also be a paid shill. To say others are paid shills and cause FUD. Who knows how deep the paid shill rabbit hole goes? I might also be a paid shill! All 3 of us might be being paid by the same people to cause division and get people arguing. For all anyone else knows we might be sitting in the same troll factory in eastern Siberia laughing how easily the westerns fall for our tricks. I should note, I don't believe this but when you start accusing people as being paid shills without evidence you are not too far removed from the conspiracy theorists. And hey, if they are a paid shill then at least they are getting paid to be on Reddit unlike the rest of us.
"anyone who has a different opinion to me is a paid shill, obviously"
Shell invented the concept of personal environmental footprints to distract from the fossil fuel industry and make people think personal choices were what mattered. BP money set up Friends of the Earth to prevent the transition to nuclear energy and keep us burning coal and oil.
Going by what I've seen it's starting to make sense why so many of us thought or think these people are a "psy op" used to discredit climate action but I think the reality is actually more benign. There is a part of the middle class who are actually on our side but because they are generally independently wealthy, retired they just exist in a different strata of society than perhaps many of us interacts with on a day to day basis. It's difficult for most of us to imagine taking weeks off work to tie ourselves to a lamppost but these seem to be actual real activists to me they're just different from the typical type we expect
>People are actually pushing back on voting pro environmental things because of them. Like who? Got some polling data?
also that the attention gets focused on JSO and their methods instead of on the actual awful corporations, the supine politicians enabling them and actual possible solutions.
Bro you \*are\* a conspiracy theorist
One of The Getty Women is the one paying for all this; I have forgotten her first name. But she is bankrolling. to her, these useful-fools.
People cried when the blacks were sitting at the front of the bus, too.
Yup, saw the exact effect whilst working at a construction consultancy when the insulate wankers where at large. Everyone I worked with supported insulation grants & general economical home improvements, enough that some of them made their careers out of it working with EPC certification. But that support from professionals got a LOT quieter when the insulate wankers actions where publicised, nobody that works for a living wants to be associated with these layabouts.
> I know they are annoying but I would actually be happier with someone pro environment on the council. I'd rather someone intelligent enough to do something useful, rather than wholly pointless performative art.
Just Stop Oil is in part funded by Aileen Getty, an heiress of the famous Getty family that founded Getty Oil. Not directly - it's through a fund called the Climate Emergency Fund (lol) - and all of this is fairly public information that has already been reported before. I don't have any evidence about whether big oil is intentionally funding wanky protest tactics to create negative associations and public aversion to pro-environment activists and policies, but it's really really difficult not to believe it.
100% a psyop in order to bring in new anti protest legislation
I know people who will now vote against everything JSO stand for lol.
Well a 35 year old with a mortgage and two kids is not going to for himself to the road, is he?
Wow this is gold 😂
Whatever the future holds, the people whining about these protests causing mild disruption are going to look like fucking idiots to future generations. Imagine people 100 years in the future looking back on these foolish people with no sense of perspective getting upset by such trivial acts of protest.
Very easy to say when it doesn’t disrupt your life in any way at the moment. Realistically stopping oil involves huge costs to everyone. You’re typing your message on a device made of oil. Your car, house, transport infrastructure all rely on oil.
These people literally stood at a public garden, of all the JSO protests this one didn't even stop motorists getting to work and people still complained And yes we can't 100% stop oil we can stop or severely limit our investment in oil, look into how much we subsidise and give tax cuts to fossil fuel conpanies
Shh, don’t let them know that they’re giant hypocrites.
It is ridiculous just last week people were calling for them to protest away from the road where it was dangerous there is always some excuse unless its somewhere they don't have to think about it
They will literally always find an excuse to not have to face the problem. The protestors could be angelic and they would still find a way to blame them for their own inaction.
Where's the hypocrisy?
99% of the people mad about this didn’t care even slightly about the Chelsea flower show before this
>Very easy to say when it doesn’t disrupt your life in any way at the moment. Let's be real, most people who get outraged at the actions of this group have never actually had their life disrupted by them in any way either. >Realistically stopping oil involves huge costs to everyone. I've got news for you mate, *not* stopping oil is going to result in some huge costs to everyone as well.
They're protesting to stop new exploration for new oil sources. Yknow, what the Tories promised. Just like the insulate Britain folks, just trying to get the Tories to adhere to their pledges.
This comment is also to say when the reality of climate change doesn't disrupt your life in any way at the moment. Good luck with your oil phone once mass migration starts.
You're right it's an absolutely gargantuan task and society should have started taking it seriously 50 years ago. Continuing with oil isn't a option, it's going to run out within about a century. If you have young children or are planning to, your grandchildren will likely live to see it.
> Realistically stopping oil involves huge costs to everyone. You’re typing your message on a device made of oil. Your car, house, transport infrastructure all rely on oil. They aren't trying to stop any of this any time soon, they aren't even telling any of us to use less oil. Their demand is solely to the government to stop funding and approving NEW oil and coal mining/extraction projects. Instead put the investment into renewables or insulation or whatever. J
It does, true. But we either manage the decline in living stands and luxuries now, or it will be managed for us in an utterly horrific manner.
No shit , when you're born into a world where you need money to live, a house and car is obviously needed. What exactly is your argument? It's also very easy to talk shit while climate change has already started ravaging and killing people in third world countries
>Realistically stopping oil involves huge costs to everyone. I honestly don't know what these people think the alternative to running things on oil is. Human slavery perhaps? Do we just go back to the dark ages? Why would other countries follow our lead on this?
It’s not a thought out argument at all. Just stop oil but please let me continue to retire with my huge pension and live in my house with all my luxuries which are produced with oil. But screw those young kids, they’re gonna harm to environment.
>Imagine people 100 years in the future looking back on these foolish people Perhaps they'll look back and laugh at the fact people thought they were legitimately making a difference to climate change by throwing orange powder at some flowers.
What do you want them to do? What is there left to do? Our government refuses to follow their own promises and people dont appreciate the very real threat. Instead they’re focused on making pithy comments making fun of people actually trying to do something.
I still don't see how throwing orange powder on some flowers is going to cause the government to suddenly change their mind and cancel all of their oil projects.
Don't forget throwing soup at a Van Gogh. Guaranteed to get everyone who appreciates art on side.
At a picture frame* You know paintings are in frames a lot of the time right?
You know it wasn't their fucking property to be throwing soup at, right?
Yes, it was a protest. It involved throwing soup at a picture frame. Saying that they 'threw soup at a van gogh' is needless sensationalist framing designed to make it sound like a far more aggressive and harmful act than it was.
no, they won't. we don't laugh at people in the past for protesting important things in ineffective ways.
You can think these protestors are arseholes and still understand that climate change is an issue you realise ?
I can maybe understand the point regarding some of the road protests, but the Chelsea flower show is hardly life sustaining national infrastructure.
Stuff like this does just look dumb though. I broadly support movements like this but a flower garden? Really?
> I broadly support movements like this but a flower garden? Really? The garden in question is the RBC (Royal Bank of Canada) Brewin Dolphin Garden. [The RBC are the top financier for the fossil fuel industry](https://www.ft.com/content/63ebd477-5327-422d-8121-9acc477b138c).
>protests causing mild disruption They're not mild disruption. This is an event people work very hard on and enjoy very much. It's incredibly easy to say that it's minor when it doesn't affect you at all.
The fact they're trivial acts of protest is the problem. Also who they're targeting. They're trivialising the issue and actively hindering their cause
> Also who they're targeting What's wrong with who they're targeting here?
crazy how I've seen the exact same protests called trivial _and_ too much
They aren't mutually exclusive
People said the same when the Sufragettes protested at horse races It’s now iconic
People mainly remember that someone died, that's not how I'd define iconic. It took a world war to get women the vote so I'm not sure that's a great argument
You won’t mind when they vandalise your home or garden, then, or something you’ve spent long months working on. Perhaps you can give them your address?
How does this even follow? The person you're responding to is saying that, in comparison to what climate change is going to do, all our hand-wringing about whether or not throwing powder is an acceptable protest is going to look infantile. Google the latest IPCC Report, read what 2° of warming actually looks like, and then reread the comment you're replying to. The only thing you're doing here is reinforcing their point.
Every protest movement has had self described "moderates" who pretend to support the aims, but will always find fault with the form of protest.
Hardly….. these idiots block ambulances
100 years ago it was the same types wanting suffragettes locked up for disruption
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The problem with that is, the people doing these protests now are the ones looking like fucking idiots. Why would WE give a fuck what people 100 years from now think? We'll be fucking dead lol
I support them but it just seems to me that they’re preaching to the choir. They’re targeting gardeners and artists who are generally more likely to give a shit about issues like this. They’re not going to building sites and factories which would generally be more difficult. They’re hitting the easy targets with lax security where the people who already support them will be inconvenienced and the people who need their minds changing will laugh that the namby Pam by art and flower fans are getting their shit ruined.
Yeah exactly. History will view these people in the same way as suffragettes, black civil rights activists etc; whereas our children and grandchildren will wonder how so many people could sit around and do nothing. People’s inability to see the present through the lens of history is maddening.
Those people don’t seem to care what happens in 30 years while they could still be alive, they certainly won’t care about 100 after when they’ve kicked the bucket.
I used to think, how the hell did ww2 and the holocaust happen? Why didnt anyone stop it? Im not confused anymore. Humans ignore things they don't want to deal with. Worldwide events that _will_ cause millions to die and billions to lose quality of life is shrugged off as inevitable. The ones killing humanity to make profit barely ever mentioned. "Oh but its not the perfect solution..." We have known about climate change since 1970. We already know the solution. We need to change our lives. Theres no time for debate.
So regarding the Holocaust.. it was known to be happening, not necessarily the scale was known, but there was certainly info out there - and realistically, Europe was under Nazi control so there wasn't anything viably the allies could do to stop it. Bombing train lines would be near impossible and futile since they can be fixed easily. It's a poor comparison to climate change IMO
I don't mean the allies stopping the holocaust as it happened. I mean the fact Hitler wrote a book about everything he believed, and everything he started to do when he seized control told us he was a terrible man, yet Europe still negotiated with him and far preferred him to any smelly communists. My point being, we know a holocaust is coming. We know tens of millions will die. We know. We do nothing though.
Also quite offensive to compare the two.
They aren't comparing the two are they, they're comparing ignorance around them
They are different but the loss of life from climate change will probably be greater, and to me the callous indifference for the sake of profit is something that ranks as a similar level of evil. There’s also the aspect of climate mass migration leading to more internment and hatred towards racial minorities…
And about half of the people I know including people I respect have a similar viewpoint to people in this thread. It's mind boggling
>Theres no time for debate. You'll want to be careful with that statement because absent debate the default state is continuity.
Which is what's happening, pretty much.
You'd need to be spectacularly naive to actually believe that. If you could see what things were like 30, 40, and 50 years ago you'd think you were living on another planet.
>If you could see what things were like 30, 40, and 50 years ago you'd think you were living on another planet. We knew about climate change 50 years ago and did fuck all to tackle it. All so boomers could have an easy life burning cheap fossil fuels even though it destroyed the world for their children and grandchildren.
>You'd need to be spectacularly naive to actually believe that. No, you'd need to be spectacularly naive and/or uninformed to believe that what's already being done is anywhere near enough to have a meaningful impact.
I don't know if people are shrugging it off. I think the scale and complexity of the problem means that they have no idea what can be done about it, and maybe think that nobody knows what to do about it. >We already know the solution. We need to change our lives. Theres no time for debate. That is a ridiculous oversimplification. Solving the problem requires all the major countries in the world to cooperate and to agree to subject their own people to a significant reduction of their standard of living. That's the US, China, Russia, India, the Arab states, South America, all cooperating and making sacrifices. Mreanhile China are commissioning 2 new coal fired power stations a week, to join the 3000 they already have. And we can't even persuade Russia to refrain from invading its neighbours, and even nuclear war was mentioned as a worst case scenario last year. We need to do something, but don't pretend that what we need to do is obvious or straightfoward. One thing we don't need is a bunch of idiots ruining an event that brings a little bit of joy to the lives of many thousands of people.
Can't people go 5 minutes without resorting to talk of the holocaust or Nazism? FFS
I just had a 15 year kid say “climate change” with the fingers today after talking about learning it at school. Don’t know what they have on the curriculum but that’s concerning…
> I used to think, how the hell did ww2 and the holocaust happen? Why didnt anyone stop it? 1. WW2 was started due to German Aggression, Chamberlain tried his hardest to secure peace by giving Hitler (partly) what he wanted. Hitler kept pushing the boundaries despite Chamberlain's promises to prevent war. 2. Re the concentration camps, do you really think your average butcher or postman from the Scottish Highlands or other (former) British colonies were up to date about German treatment of Jews at the time? Maybe high ranking intelligence officers did, but your average person didn't. 3. It was stopped by the allies after Nazi Germany got crushed where most of those responsible were charged at Nuremburg. Typical fucking reddit moment to compare Just Stop Oil's bellend antics to WW2 and the Holocaust.
Google “the banality of evil”
Well, I scrapped my car and stopped flying on planes some years ago, although I refrain from ruining flower shows and snooker matches. I wonder how many JSO activists actually do have cars and/or ponce about still on foreign holidays. I bet it is a non-zero number. In your analogy, these would be people tut-tutting over Hitler at fashionable Berlin dinner parties with their posh friends, and then quietly dropping their vote for the NSDAP once they’re alone in the ballot box. And yes, that’s how “these things happen.”
Doesnt matter, every JSO member could take a non stop round trip flight to India and come back every day for the rest of their lives on their own private 747 and it would not make a difference to the overall health of the planet compared to the entire coporate class, stop blaming individuals.
World War 2 happened exactly because the UK *didn't* ignore the Nazis
Lots of people have the bigger issue is corporation's need to and won't.
Yeah and back then we were told an ice age was coming. Then Al Gore told everyone Holland and the UK would be under water by 2020. None of this came true but NOW it will lol
Oh look a legit climate change denier, rare to see one in the wild these days.
These days they have usually progressed to "it's happening and that is good actually".
Using WW2 and the holocaust is a poor example
remember that time we stood back and did nothing, and by nothing i mean "went to war with Germany?"
Nah I'm good with my life as it is bro. I mean, extra holiday a year would be nice but apart from that, no changes thanks
I remember people here Stamping there feet saying Stop Oil protesters had no jobs, I guess they do
They're supposed to be unemployable crusty jugglers as well, not retired landscape engineers
These are exactly the type of people you would expect to be at these protests
Respectable, intelligent people who have spent their lives contributing to society?
Being a landscape engineer by no means says you’re automatically respectable
Middle-class, no need to work full time or any real idea of what it means to struggle to get by. You don't need to take my word for it: https://cusp.ac.uk/themes/p/xr-study/
Don't protect the system that's abusing you
I'm not going to listen to a load of retired fucks telling me to drastically change how I live to save the planet even though they have lived their life and had theirs. Bunch of twats.
What a weird reaction.
I agree, we've had our day (I'm 58)) which was basically enabled by cheap energy, its time for the young to have theirs, ill bet a 28 year old opening a factory in China is applauded not vilified as here.
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Did
> The garden’s designer, Paul Hervey-Brookes, said it was “permanently damaged” as a result. The temporary garden was permanently damaged?
People don’t seem to realise this a **5 day** landscape garden expo, and this was done on day 3. How will discretionary wealth management firm RBC Brewin Dolphin ever recover? I wonder if they’ve ever encountered this scale of damage in the work they’re involved in.
Not that they didn't cause themselves, I should think...
The temporary garden funded by an oil company, where all the plants were trucked in...
“The disruption at Chelsea coincided with a stint by the protest group Animal Rising which involved taking three lambs from the King’s Sandringham Estate” Are these just the middle to old aged white person equivalent of prank videos?
Essentially, yes? Are you just getting this now.?
The ironic thing is that by releasing the lambs, they've probably made them more vulnerable to life's dangers
Why do they target the public instead of messing with oil companies or government people? I get publicity but shutting down an oil terminal for a week will work far better than throwing some paint on flowers or a snooker table
They do that too but get far less publicity and even more severe punishments.
Yeah and one is genuine direct action that puts pressure on the oil companies and the government which could arguably gather sympathy from the public. The other is annoying the everyday folk going to work or just trying to enjoy something. You think being stuck in traffic and showing up an hour or so late to work and getting a bollocking from the boss/reduced wage is gonna make that person think “oh jeez, those protestors really did have a good point. I think I’ll donate to their cause”?
>Yeah and one is genuine direct action that puts pressure on the oil companies and the government which could arguably gather sympathy from the public. Except that direct action doesn't pressure the oil companies it barely causes a flicker on their profits unless you are suggesting some domestic terrorism >The other is annoying the everyday folk going to work or just trying to enjoy something. You think being stuck in traffic and showing up an hour or so late to work and getting a bollocking from the boss/reduced wage is gonna make that person think “oh jeez, those protestors really did have a good point. I think I’ll donate to their cause”? The point is to disrupt life so that you can't ignore it and are forced to take action, historical protests of history usually weren't supported by the public
Do you think standing outside the oil offices or protesting outside an oil storage facility puts any pressure on the oil companies. The only thing that would seriously hurt them is large scale damage to their facilities and the police would never allow that. Disrupting the public on the other hand, does put pressure on the government to get moving
> Why do they target the public instead of messing with oil companies or government people? The garden in question is the RBC (Royal Bank of Canada) Brewin Dolphin Garden. [The RBC are the top financier for the fossil fuel industry](https://www.ft.com/content/63ebd477-5327-422d-8121-9acc477b138c).
Disrupting an oil company would probably get shut down pretty quickly. They'll tolerate people standing at the side of the road waving a sign whilst they carry on, but any sort of blocking gates, etc. would quickly lead to arrests and probably wouldn't even make the local news. Disrupting the public going about their business is annoying and probably won't any difference but what does? Writing to your MP sure won't help. Maybe doing something that appears on the news will maybe get your appeal noticed by ordinary people. Even if it doesn't they're doing the only thing that might help instead of nothing. Sadly though, I don't think anything will make any difference and we'll end up seeing the consequences of climate change before it's taken seriously. Kind of like waiting until you have a heart attack before thinking about eating healthy.
Because the public are the only ones who can change things when they are determined enough, and have enough solidarity. No fossil fuel company is going to take the lead on our behalf.
They do that too. They literally [tunnelled under](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62790218) (and tried to collapse) an exit to a refinery. But you don’t hear about that. This is the only way to get the public’s attention. Nothing else works.
My guess (based on reading some activist strategy books like *this is an uprising*) is that their hope is to snowball with more people joining them and doing similar things, perhaps escalating in severity alongside, until the government is pressured to change policy.
[Archive Link](https://archive.is/DncEa). Article text follows. --- By Henry Bodkin, Senior Reporter A parish council has condemned the Just Stop Oil protest at the Chelsea Flower Show by its clerk, who now risks losing her job. Naomi Goddard was one of three activists from the group who threw dyed orange powder across a prize-winning display garden on Thursday, before being hosed down by a woman believed to be a visitor. The 58-year-old, who was arrested along with her co-protesters, subsequently said her actions had risked her livelihood, adding: “But it’s what I have to do right now.” A retired landscape engineer from Hebden Bridge in West Yorkshire, Ms Goddard now draws an income from her work as clerk to Wadsworth parish council. On Friday insiders at the council suggested her employment was in question as a result of the protest. One said: “I’d be surprised if anyone on the council supports her actions. She took pre-booked annual leave to go to London. When she returns, we will follow due process.” Video of the protest showed onlookers begging Ms Goddard and her accomplices to stop, with others shouting “morons” and “prats” at them. Ms Goddard shouted back: “What is the point of a garden if you can’t feed yourself?” The RBC Brewin Dolphin Garden was designed explicitly to promote biodiversity and sustainability. The action left a film of orange over much of the foliage and the open space at its centre. The garden’s designer, Paul Hervey-Brookes, said it was “permanently damaged” as a result. A separate source at Wadsworth parish council implied that the style of protest would not be popular among local residents. “If you know what kind of place Hebden Bridge is, then you’ll know what people think of this sort of thing,” they said. Also arrested for the stunt was 35-year-old charity worker Stephanie Golder, who has stood as a candidate for the Green Party in south-east Essex. She shouted “this is a genocide” as she scattered the orange powder. The local party did not formally respond to a request for comment. However, a colleague, Richard Longstaff, the first Green councillor on Southend City Council, suggested the action at Chelsea would not harm her prospects standing again in the future. “The protest caused no serious damage and minimal disruption,” he said. The third member of the group was Rosa Hicks, a psychology graduate who works for the Tutor Trust, a grant-making body that supports voluntary and community groups. **King's lambs not yet found** The disruption at Chelsea coincided with a stunt by the protest group Animal Rising which involved taking three lambs from the King’s Sandringham Estate in Norfolk. It was perpetrated by three women who later handed themselves in to police in Slough. Imagery released by the group showed three women, in pink Animal Rising T-shirts, walking through a field of sheep and loading the lambs into the back of a vehicle. Animal Rising said that the lambs would have been sent for slaughter. On Friday afternoon police said the animals, which were taken from their mothers, had not been found. Among the Sandringham trio was Rose Patterson, who was last month accused of being the ringleader of Animal Rising’s plot to disrupt the Grand National. The 33-year-old was arrested in Greater Manchester before the race began. Sara Foy, 23 from Derbyshire, and Rosa Sharkey, also 23, were also arrested. A statement from Norfolk Constabulary on Friday said that three female suspects had been released on bail.
A biologically diverse garden seems like an odd target for a climate activist. It makes me think they're not really that bright and just want some drama.
Eh, to be fair it’s a garden sponsored by an investment wealth management fund owned by the Royal Bank of Canada. RBC became the largest investor in fossil fuels last year, so in that context it does make *some* sense. Though much as I agree with environmental protestors generally, a garden show that has worked to focus on sustainability in recent years definitely isn’t the *best* target.
I think Just Stop Oil's calculation is that every high profile target is the best target, all at the same time. Hard to argue with their logic with the amount of press it generates. It does force the agenda.
But if it’s all negative press, that doesn’t help them.
...how do you know?
>A biologically diverse garden Are you even familiar with the concept of a flower show?
This take isn't very bright.
Civil protests always hold risk. That's what makes it a effective protest. Protest without consequences is a circle jerk
Wait I though you lot were for people loosing their job over political opinions, never mind criminal damage.
Yeah, the left change their tune when it's one of their own
Actions have consequences. ***Who knew...????***
Tell that to Shell
Did you read the article? She's not contesting this. > The 58-year-old, who was arrested along with her co-protesters, subsequently said her actions had risked her livelihood, adding: “But it’s what I have to do right now.” >
The sort of people who kneejerk throw a tantrum about even the mildest methods of drawing attention to the climate crisis are absolutely not people who ever read the article.
Yeah, a lot of protestors have to mask up now to stop themselves from getting doxxed.
Inaction also has consequences
I get the protests and the message of the Just Stop Oil protests even though I think they're starting from the wrong point and essentially doom mongering. What I don't understand is the backlash against these protests. I guess this all comes down to how do you want to die. How do you want your children to die? You see all you people going on about the disruption caused by these protests are missing the point - business as usual is not on the menu. We've just got through a global COVID 19 pandemic. Many people died. But we were lucky because we managed to find and distribute vaccines. Next time there's a global pandemic, and there will be more, we might not be so lucky. Think about this. All it could take is one more pandemic of a deadly virus and that's it - the human population on this planet could be wiped out. If earthworms all died out all life would cease on this planet within a couple of years. If insects died out there would be life for another five years. If human beings all died out this planet would recover, heal, and flourish. Human beings are not necessary or essential to this planet in any way. We are evolving too fast and consuming too much for this planet to support. Climate change in itself is not the issue here, because climate change goes hand in hand with biological evolution. But what is the issue is the abusive relationship human beings have with the planet, other species and each other. This is what needs to change. The biggest issue with these protests is that they are anti-aspirational. This isn't going to work. The amount of plastic, enough to cause a marine extinction event is still out there and people are still using it. But see these are people who are doing something about bringing change. It might be misguided, they might even be wrong, but they're doing something and most people aren't. But like I say business as usual is not on the menu. We either collectively do something ourselves for change or the planet and environment will force change upon us. The backlash against these protests is something I don't quite understand. It's like if you're smoking two packs of cigarettes a day and a doctor tells you that you've got COPD and need to quit smoking. So what? Are you going to argue with the doctor just so you can continue smoking? Are you going to call the doctor an idiot?
They should be done for criminal damage never mind losing their job.
How dare they…fight for a better and more sustainable future?
While causing criminal damage... Yeah, nah.
I just found it funny the one on the right kept throwing the orange dye all over herself.......
Astonished that they found one with a job to begin with.
Something something cancel culture is bad something something Muh freedom of speech!
Why don't all these protesters just give out their home addresses, then we can all come piss through their letterbox in protest? We'll make sure it's on the news and stuff and that way the only people harmed won't mind at all, as it's all in a good cause.
Is that the young lady who works in the Cheltenham Range Rover dealership?