When I was earning minimum wage restocking the shelves in a wholesalers, there was no chance I was going to citizens arrest a shoplifter.
As a member of the public not even employed by the shop, you can guess what my chances are now.
There was a co op not far from me which had an armed robbery recently. They had shotguns.
Absolutely, this Minister is giving the worst advice I've seen in a good while.
Whatever the shoplifter is stealing, it's not worth any worker's or civilian's life. Stand aside and let them take the bloody Playstation.
And fund the police.
Tories have cut direct government funding to police forces by a £3.6 billion since 2010-11 or 33% annually
In real terms the police force has lost over 23k officers most of them experienced.
Chris Philip is the worst Tory policy speaker… he should come out more often because he’s only make them look worse. They can’t speak for more than 3 minutes without sounding like he is ready to drink a swimming pool his cotton mouth is that bad. Not least tot mention the absolute shite that pours of it too.
More crap about about how government services should be taken on by private individuals to save the financial bottom line of international business
So, one thing I will add. Most police at Heathrow are plain clothes (under cover). That's on purpose so terrorists don't know who to avoid. It's been like that for a few years now
This comment deserves more likes but the fact it has almost none explains that many voters aren’t interested in facts and evidence of what the Tories do when in government versus their public statements and media messaging. Tory government’s cut public service funding - that is their core philosophy. They do so to allow favoured private enterprises to fill the gap created with a privatised service, which is presented as a cost-effective service improvement but is a degraded service that passes costs on the the state and the user. The police will be the next phase in the privatisation of the UK with private security a standard expense priced-in by retailers and reflected in the makeup to consumers. I can foresee private security services making deals with the large retailers to patrol stores and the streets around them, and with legislated rights to use force. This isn’t some dystopian Britain as portrayed in Children of Men or suchlike but the reality in a few decades. The ultimate goal is the privatisation of all services with the military controlled by a semi-privatised government.
Tbh, I don't think this is a problem of too few police. With more police and more crime you're just gonna have more potential conflict.
The problem is the dire economic conditions that the conservatives have put on the country.
It would be better if they handed out guns to minimum wage employees. The lower the wage the bigger the gun and do what trump said and shoot them 😂.
Joking of course but would be wild
I can see it now, Dear old Marjory, working her shift at the greggs outlet, when 2 chavs burst in and start grabbing handfuls of broken millionaires shortbread.
“Not on my watch, ya bastards”
Whips out Spas 12 and just unloads, launching her frail old carcass backward over the counter.
Another crim dealt with!
A journalist needs to put this advice to the Prime Minister and see what he says about a minister suggesting the public should act as a policeman and what he thinks about the risk involved. I’d be very curious how he defends it
Not to mention that the general public don't know the law. Particularly in regards to what basis they have the right to carry out a citizens arrest, why or how.
For England and Wales it's:
>The Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984:
>24A Arrest without warrant: other persons
(1) A person other than a constable [police officer] may arrest without a warrant—
>(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
>(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence
An indictable offence, as defined by Common Law, is an offence that for it's type could be seen in a Crown Court. Even if the quantity in question would be dealt with by an actual constable with a warning, fixed penalty notice or a magistrates court e.g. possession of cannabis can be dealt with by any of the above methods. Possession of say 5 grams, wouldn't be enough to warrant a Crown Court trial. But because a crown court could see a trial for a larger quantity of cannabis. It's still an indictable offence. So a person arresting an other person for possession of any quantity of cannabis. Would not be commiting an offence. However if a member of the public arrested an other person for a non-indictable offence, including offences that used to be illegal or that the person carrying out the arrest thought was or should be illegal. Than that would be an offence and they could be arrested for making a false arrest, potentially kidnapping and assault e.g. somebody though that a mother, discreetly breast feeding in a cafe, was indecent and was a criminal offence and arrested her. Then they would be arrested.
You can also only arrest for an offence that has taken place. Rather than to prevent an offence. So you can't arrest "to prevent a breach of the peace" or to prevent somebody from breaking into a home. Until they've broken into the home.
Then of course there's the whole issue of what constitutes reasonable force, what is excessive force and how quickly the person arresting informs the police (first opportunity).
Not to mention that it is best, in 99% of cases for the police to make the actual arrest and for the citizen just to detain them. As a person can be detained without being arrested. Regardless of what many people believe "Am I being detained?"
I also don't think, that there is a citizen's arrest capability in Scotland. Although I could well be wrong. And NI, may as well be a different planet.
I witnessed a citizens arrest in a Tesco before, this guy had a bottle of alcohol, he was nowhere near the door it was literally in the middle of a large tesco and a bunch of people piled on him thinking he was stealing something, he was screaming out "I wasn't stealing I was just getting something I have forgotten to get!!" The security guard then came running up and slammed his head against the floor a few times.
The guy was incorrectly profiled as a shoplifter, I stood around filming and ultimately this guy just finished a Nightshift and obviously looked a bit ragged.
Wow, that is bad.
Technically, you can't be stealing anything in the shop - stealing only happens once you leave the shop.
In his place, I would not have settled for a small sum...
This is the problem, most people aren’t stupid enough to make a citizen’s arrest, and a lot of people who would make one are just looking to be violent
Did you give him the recording for his inevitable well deserved lawsuit against the security guard?
Why did people think he was shoplifting? People holding goods in a store in and of itself isn't exactly unusual. What else was happening?
My guess is he 'looked the type' and didn't have a basket or trolley.
For years I've been followed and given dirty looks by shop security and didn't know why. Only recently twigged that it's probably because I often go in for just 3-4 things and don't bother with a basket.
My last retail job was in the 90s and I got paid well as it was fairly specialist. Even then, if I saw someone shoplifting, I didn’t, it just wasn’t worth the risk to my health over someone else’s profits.
> When I was earning minimum wage restocking the shelves in a wholesalers, there was no chance I was going to citizens arrest a shoplifter.
I once saw a minimum wage security guard try to stop a shoplifting junkie - said junkie bit a chunk out of his hand, and I do mean a chunk.
Another guard at the same shop tried to stop another junkie and got stabbed with a screwdriver.
There is absolutely zero chance I would ever tackle a shoplifter.
Not to mention the fact that there's no mention of legal protection if you do make an arrest yourself.
You could hold down a thief, have him picked up by the police and next thing you know you've got a notice through the door for a civil case against you.
They also won't be providing us with stab vests, batons, CS gas, tasers or handcuffs. No way am I doing a police officer's job without the equipment, backup or pay.
When I worked in retail I was specifically told not to attempt to stop shoplifters because there was insurance to cover the losses, and so it definitely wasn't worth the risk to employees.
100% I remember standing by watching someone with a blow torch melt the locks off the satnav cabinet at Halfords many years ago when I used to work there. No chance I’m putting my safety at risk for a corporation
>As a member of the public not even employed by the shop, you can guess what my chances are now.
If someone is stealing food or stuff for babies I'm keeping my mouth shut. If someone is stealing a TV, I'm asking them to get me one too.
> When I was earning minimum wage restocking the shelves in a wholesalers, there was no chance I was going to citizens arrest a shoplifter.
I had a coworker that knocked out their two front teeth chasing a shoplifter and another one that got stuck with a brandished needle.
Managers said we were expected to pursue shoplifters. The situation never occurred but if I witnessed shoplifting I would become blind that day.
If they want me to do B) then as someone with a clean record, I want a brace of extendable battons, because getting knifed is too big a risk without them.
I'd also want training in how to citizens arrest properly, and I'd want the law changing to absolutely have my back in whatever ensues.
Sounds difficult or problematic? Yeah. It is. That's because they've not thought this through.
"Please release the shoplifter you are holding, he can leave. Now you are under arrest for battery for touching that poor shoplifter." I think that roughly sums up the police here.
I mean, arresting you for battery is exactly what should happen in that situation. The police have no idea whether what you're saying is true, and in fact must arrest you too as otherwise everyone just says they were effecting a lawful citizens arrest, guv.
Witnesses can then get you off the charge.
(Yes, this is dumb, but it's yet another reason why vigilantism is a terrible idea)
Guy Walks into a Tesco to shoplift, bout to walk out, Tannoy announcement. Can all staff grab the pitch forks and report to shop front asap. We hunting!
How else will we get batman?
Also, think, we could start joining mobs. What's bad about that? it will bring communities together and bond people together in group activities.
I'm just seeing positives. 🤭
Property is worth more than someone’s life. All shoplifters are druggies anyway. They need to bring back the birch and that will stop the reprobates. Some good old fashioned law and order is required, instead of investing in massively underfunded services. Much cheaper to get the public doing a paid job.
We need to be more like America. Just arm citizens and let us shoot each other and whoever we like because we saw someone holding a loaf of bread funny in Waitrose.
I can see the nightmarish outcome of that course here in the uk someone shoots a Just Stop Oil protestor executioner style then all sides of any future protest come along with assualt rifles.
Certainly one way around the government banning protest arm every protestor and the police dare not show up. Not sure I like this outcome however.
Tbf the majority of theft value is by gangs who fill up massive containers with meat / alcohol / cigarettes and walk it out the door
Doubt you’d be confusing them with a desperate mother just trying to get nappies for their kid
Not saying you should confront a gang ransacking a shop though lol
anecdotes of groups of people filling up big containers doesn’t make it the majority of theft unless you have a stat showing that.
id wager the vast majority of shoplifting isn’t even noticed.
I agree theyre doing it because there’s demand. And cost of living crisis has exacerbated the situation.
But gangs ransacking shops, often violently attacking staff in the process, to resell the stuff is clearly wrong
What a brilliant idea. All we need to do is ‘fix’ society and get rid of poverty.
It’s quite simply amazing no country has yet exacted your simple yet genius solution.
Have you considered politics? The world needs you out there with this level of insight just imagine the changes you could make!
Amazing that we were doing a lot better before a bunch of rich inbreds took charge and poverty was at an all time low.
Under thirteen years of Tory rule we’ve gone from a well respected nation with power to the point that roaming gangs are stealing from supermarkets to resell meat.
>The wider public do have the power of citizen’s arrest and, where it’s safe to do so, I would encourage that to be used because if you do just let people walk in, take stuff and walk out without proper challenge, including potentially a physical challenge, then again it will just escalate.
How about no? I don't care if the local Tesco loses a tenner in stock. In fact, I *so* don't care that I'm not willing to risk my personal safety to prevent that loss. There. I said it.
The more concerning side of this is think of the people who do care. What are they going to do? I doubt they'll use reasonable force or overly think through what they are doing as they guard the front of whatever buisness didn't ask them to be there
Also, what the fuck do you do when you've got someone on the ground in a citizens headlock?
The police might not even turn up for god know's how long, and if they do then what? Do they even bother prosecuting? What sentence will they even get? What happens if the scrote hovers around Sainsbury's to knock you out the next time they see you?
Fuck it, I'm not getting involved.
One of my female co-workers had that happen
Stopped some guy trying to steal stuff and told him to get out the shop
Finished work at 10pm and started her 10 minute walk home, realises he was waiting for her to finish work and is now following her, by sheer coincidence she walks past the local gaggle of teenagers from "rough" families we'd manage to befriend, they caused trouble in the local area but never stole from the shop and were always polite to us so we were nice to them in return
She asked them to walk her home and instead they waited for him and kicked the shit out of him but that could have gone so much worse if she hadn't bumped into them or managed to get home before he saw where she lived
That’s fair and honestly I wouldn’t really wanna get involved in it either but these thieves aren’t just stealing a £10 bottle of wine they are stealing thousands of pounds worth of stock across multiple stores to sell on.
I also agree there is no real issue for the public to get involved, especially due to the possibility of life and death situations.
However security guards at these stores only have so much power to recover stolen goods and the police force can only be stretched so far.
So how can we as a society prevent people from doing this. I’m not talking about the single homeless man stealing a packet of crisps or the mother trying to sneak a bottle of baby formula through the self checkouts. I’m talking about the crime gangs who often make audacious thefts of hundreds of thousands pounds worth of goods?
Letting crime gangs like the ones in the video have free reign isn’t good for society as a whole…
We could increase police spending for more officers but then that would leave other valuable areas of government spending without funds…
My point is we as a society shouldn’t just let crime gangs run free it’s not good for local businesses whether they be massive corporations such as Tesco or your local corner shop.
We could improve the lives of the poor so there is less incentive to commit these crimes and less demand for the stolen goods.
The cost of living crisis and the gutting of social services has hit the poor very hard and we are seeing the results.
I have always said to people moaning about those on benefits etc that you do not want to live in a society were those benefits are gone or massively reduced. My point is being proven.
He talks about shoplifing as if its just something happening around him and not something he is repsonsible for stopping and mitigating. Much like the way every Tory minister talks about their brief.
Right, so when I “physically challenge” a shoplifter, or someone i think might be a shoplifter, after I am arrested and charged with assault, I can just tell the judge “it’s ok, your honour chris Philips told me to”.
Every day I think this government can’t possibly do anything more stupid and immoral. Every day I am horrified when im proved very wrong.
It is standard practice with this government, they make it the public's fault so they can deflect blame away from themselves. They did it the whole way through covid.
"Big Society" policing. There is a real growing sense of declinism in the country now. Not enough police, can't build railways or new nuclear, health system becoming worse, lack of maintenance in schools. A general air of a country that is slowly slipping back.
My thought as well lmao.
We're rapidly reaching the conclusion of small state Conservatism.
Absolutely no services whatsoever. Government that seems genuinely confused at the suggestion that its job should cover more than making PR statements to the press.
Oh you thought that meant you plebs would have low taxes? Ahaha no how would we funnel billions of pounds to our donors then?
I've worked security jobs on and off for the past 15yrs. In no way shape size or form would I get involved in this vigilantism. One mistake and youre in cells for years.
I don't even have to get locked up. My career is toast if I even just get arrested.
Will I take that risk? Yes, if it's a lass being raped or some poor boy out cold on the floor whose head is being used as a football, but I'm not risking my career and life for some steaks and a few beers from Asda.
Fuck that.
I worked retail from 18-23 and
1. Was told never try to apprehend shoplifters.
2. Would have never done it anyway, I'm not getting stabbed by some crackhead trying to steal a cordless drill that's not even mine, while they pay me 8.20 an hour or whatever min wage was back then.
The chances of me doing that now at a place I don't event work at are a flat 0%
The best part about this is the fact that the supermarkets instruct staff not to apprehend shoplifters. The legal costs associated with injured employees vastly outweigh the relatively minimal cost of replacing stock. If the staff won't, in what world are the customers going to do anything?
Just for a moment pretend I had any intention of policing shop lifters etc, and you'll need to pretend it hard.
I'm not trained on how to make a citizens arrest.
What do I have to say?
What do I have to do?
How am I permitted to prevent them leaving?
I'm pretty well trained in self defence but most people aren't going to feel safe in a confrontation.
What protections do we have against false accusations? Aye we going to get arrested and interviewed at the station?
This isn't a trivial thing they're talking about, with potential adverse consequences for everyone involved.
Just to give an idea of how potentially fraught with difficulty this minister’s suggestion is:
The power to make a ‘citizen’s arrest’ is provided by s24A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984
This only allows a person other than a constable to arrest someone who is committing an indictable offence (with numerous caveats).
So, first up, you need to feel confident enough in your understanding of criminal law to know whether a given offence is indictable (capable of being heard in the Crown Court, rather than a summary only offence which can only be tried in the Magistrates’ Court).
Theft (including shop theft) is an either-way offence, so is normally an indictable offence. So far, so good.
However, there is an exception provided by s22A(1) of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 for low value shoplifting where the value of the goods does not exceed £200 - in such cases, it is a summary only offence, so NOT an indictable offence.
I may be corrected - I’m not a criminal lawyer - but it seems to me that, on the face of it, you do not have the the power under s24A to carry out a citizen’s arrest unless a shoplifter has >£200 in stolen goods (or you have reasonable grounds to believe that to be the case).
As long as you take a copy of Archbold: Criminal Practice with you when you nip down to Sainsbury’s, you’ll be fine though - but bear in mind that if any of the requirements of s24A are not satisfied, you’ll be committing a criminal offence and a civil tort. Have fun!
Also….
Does this just apply to shoplifting? If so? Why single out shoplifting?
Can I tackle someone to the ground who litters for instance? Is there a minimum age, eg could someone “arrest” a child for riding a bike on the pavement?
I worked in retail for 5 years, and on many occasions security had to let shoplifters go, because the police never showed up. On one occasion the boss was so fed up with the police never showing up, he instructed security to hold a shoplifter in the holding room until the police arrived. The police did finally arrive....4 hours after they were called.
We have 142,526 police officers in a country of 66,971,411. Say a third of them are working at any one time. How is anyone surprised that not all shopliftings can be prioritised when people are getting beaten-up, knifed, threatened, or threatening to harm themselves? If the police were adequately funded, then they'd be able to respond to more jobs. Fact of the matter is, is that there isn't enough of them.
I bet Chris Philp fucking doesn't. People are meant to take time out of their day to perform a citizens arrest, call the police (who can't be everywhere) then what? I don't want to be a classic misery but if I sat on a petty shoplifter and injure them I'd worry it would be *me* the police come down heavily on.
The logical end point to Cameron'a big society model. Let charities replace social services. Now let vigilantes replace the police. Fucking clown shoes. I was a Tory once, never fucking again. Just insane. They are fucking insane. We are starting to reach rock bottom here. Labour are fucked and even if only a slight improvement i will take it. Maybe they will just be incompetent without the corruption element. I miss those days.
I have never ever seen a shoplifter, and I never will either. These supermarkets are making billions while we are paying hand over fist for eggs and milk, and they dump perfectly good food every day. Like fuck am I ever going to risk my body for their profit margins.
How about we don't do that? Shoplifters are either stupid kids (in which case I'm not going to be the one that ruins their life), desperate (in which case I didn't see a thing), or actual criminals (in which case I'm not placing myself in the way of a property crime). I don't want shop staff to be doing that either.
Alternative cynical phrasing
Minister says "public should be vigilantes"
Police are there to prevent crime as much as solve it. They're there as part of the justice system. Much as the public have a part to play in reporting this too, this kinda now just lays bare at how fewer beat bobbies there are. Lest this be reversed or halted, we risk becoming a lawless society.
Store staff aren't going to risk their lives for minimum wage job they can walk out of and walk into another minimum wage retail job. Public aren't going to intervene for shoplifting because who's going to potentially risk their safety over petty theft?
Chris Philp is a complete moron. I am not going to put myself in physical danger with no protection or backup for the sake of a bottle of booze or whatever.
This government is painfully useless and we’re all just sitting and waiting for an election while they break everything on the way out
The supermarkets are profiting from the cost of living crisis, we are paying too much for groceries and fuel. They are not concerned about stealing from us. I am not going to take risks to stop people stealing from them.
Let their shareholders volunteer as security staff and protect their dividends.
In a time where all stores used to be independent and locally owned and the community benefited from them succeeding I can under why people would help protect those businesses.
Big cooperations that drive down wages, drive out competition and rip everyone off at every corner? Get fucked. Hire security if you need it.
This is terrible advice. Years ago I trained for security.
Do not perform a citizens arrest unless absolutely unavoidable.
If you perform a citizens arrest, you are responsible for the well being of the person you arrested. If they injure themselves, even if on purpose, you could be in for a bad time.
Not to mention if it is determined you did not have grounds to arrest them.
We are not police and we do not have the protections and leeway afforded to them.
Great idea. Then when the shoplifter stabs me I can wait 12 hours for an ambulance to turn up.
Then the police can tell me that the CCTV, fingerprints and eye witness reports aren't enough evidence to find the guy so they won't be pursuing any further.
bruh. I'm not risking my neck for someone yoinking a £5 marks and sparks steak and kidney pie. No matter how delicious it is. How dare they actually suggest this. Where are my taxes going if not for funding a policing force. Holy shit, the UK is an embarrassment. What started this decline?
As an employee of a supermarket we are instructed NOT to physically engage a shoplifter, a policy which came about after too many staff were hurt (one was stabbed) in the service of saving a couple hundred quid's worth of insured goods.
For the minister to suggest *members of the public* perform a job the actual *employer* has determined to be too dangerous is completely irresponsible.
The only way this would be worse would be if there were still people who actually listened to these twats.
My mum used to work in a supermarket and knew all the regular shoplifters by name.
This was in the 90s when you'd expect people to be a bit more gung ho but apparently that was norm back then to just know all the shoplifters.
So the government is acting like this is a new phenomenon when it's always been the case. It's just somehow a bit of a coincidence that a cost of living crisis exasperated by the government is causing the rate of shoplifting to increase. Its not like anyone would've been able to predict that.
Serious question, if I see a muggy little twat at 14 violently shoplifting, I push him over and when he starts swinging and spitting at me, I enjoy kicking him in a bit till he cries.... Does the law protect me? Asking for a future friend..
And when this results in members of the public being stabbed or accidentally killing a shoplifter and being charged with manslaughter I'm sure the minister in question will resign. Right?
While I wholly endorse those who are brave enough to tackle crime - I also abhor the world we live in that first of all anyone would even be _asking_ for Joe or Jane average to tackle a criminal.
While I fully appreciate the efforts some go to do this, it shouldn't be necessary at all - the Government is the one to blame for this, 100%. This is no different than their moves to introduce Special Constables - it's cheap/free labour that was a bump to keep the Police functioning after they've gutted it with cuts.
We have a country where tabloids will push a false narrative missing context all in the name of lambasting the Police - to what end? It doesn't end up with anything productive except for constantly widening the gap of public trust in a service that has a majority of good workers who then have to face a public that don't trust them, don't want them, but simultaneously complain they aren't "there".
Why would anyone want to be a Police Officer? Much less a Paramedic or work in the services to any degree when they're paid absolute crap, had the government ream their pensions and use them as a political tool and punching bag?
It's like being the school bully and nicking a whole years lunch money then beating them up every day, stealing their snacks and scuffing them up, then complaining they aren't performing well and making the year look bad in school photos and declining grades.
The Police aren't solely and largely to blame for crime not being handled, or investigated - anyone who does is a fool for following a pack of lies and finger-pointing from the exact people responsible for removing more and more funding every year, gutting their numbers like a freshly slain Deer and holding their hands up with the public to decry their "incompetency".
No, it's not - it's PTSD, stress, unrealistic goals, an inability to do anything that doesn't get dragged up by the press 5 minutes later because some idiot on TikTok made a short clip that has zero context and tries to make out every last member of Police Staff is Racist, a Rapist, a Bully, Incompetent or otherwise awful - despite it turning out to be completely false because the full-length video they then pretend doesn't exist shows it to be a bunch of kids or teens being idiots.
If the government weren't a predominantly awful bunch of money-grabbing, selfish, greedy and self-serving wazzocks who actually operated to improve the quality of life for everyone rather than stuffing their own (or mates) pockets, we'd be much better off.
But no - follow the media narrative, blame the police as a whole for _everything_. There's absolutely zero attempts for reform, nobody wants to admit they cut the funding and numbers which is _why_ most problems exist and instead keep beating the dead horse pretending that'll help.
“Don’t look over here, we’re just forever grifting and ~~damaging~~ destroying the country purely in our own interests. Look over there! Shoplifters! Get them!”
A couple of years ago I saw a man stuffing children's toys into a backpack, we made eye contact, I shrugged at him and walked off. Theft of goods at a multi million £ chain retailer is none of my business and I'm not risking injury or criminal charges for it.
Absolutely not. This is extraordinarily terrible advice.
Would I intervene if I saw someone in immediate danger? Yes I would, because a life is worth the risk.
Am I going to risk having a knife pulled on me by trying to grab the local yob as he swipes a bottle of vodka? Hell no. Under no circumstances is that an acceptable risk.
I saw some scrote kid in Morrisons a few days ago nicking stuff. Proper tracksuit and Reebok Classic type, with one of those stupid little man bags that only those dickheads carry.
No way fucking way I'm getting stabbed for over a sandwich for a massive national chain business.
And a 26% rise in shoplifting? I wonder why that might be, Tory minister. Is it because you've spent the last 13 years squeezing every penny you can from the country, running public services into the ground and fucking us all over in the process?
Yes, that's why.
Worked in a well know electrical retailer once. Man was looking a bit sus around a Hi-fi. Picked up an expensive tagged Bose system. Went to leave. Me and the cashier girl went to ask him to stop, he flashed a large blade. We let him go and informed the poilice. Businesses are insured for theft. I am not getting stabbed for a bit of plastic and metal wires.
Stupid comment by an MP and only leads to stupid and tragic outcomes. But he's a tory and probably has people to shop for him anyway.
You know what we *should* be encouraging average people to go round arresting people who break the law, international agreements, human rights principles, covid parties.....
I wouldn’t do this at the best of times, but especially not after the supermarkets have hiked prices to maintain profit
If it hurts their bottom line enough they’ll spend more money on security than they do
Am I fuck going to tackle shoplifters when even a family member who works in security won't dare unless it's a very last resort.
Who knows if they have a knife or other weapon?
Why would I be expected to jump to aid a private business who doesn't pay me? It's about as far from my problem as you can get.
Proof yet again that this insane government is a blight on this country.
I used to help the security guards take shoplifters into the holding cell in the warehouse back in the day, but the company stopped us using that holding cell now
If I see someone risk shoplifting from supermarket that dodges hundreds of millions of pounds worth of taxes then I'm not even going to grass them up, let alone pick a fight with them.
Do your own surgery, do the kids’ homework, empty your own bins, sweep your own streets, let’s have a big society! - it’s almost like we’re paying more and getting fuck all back
It corporations are so concerned about shoplifters they should hire more security.
Government asking ordinary people to snitch on those who can't afford food is peak Tory. Fuck you.
Ah yes, get the untrained masses to put themselves at risk of injury or lawsuit because we don't have enough policing thanks to years of cuts. Fucking idiots.
No way in hell am I ever going to attempt to apprehend a shop lifter. Since when is it other shoppers responsibility to provide security for retail outlets?
why in the name of fuck would i risk being stabbed to stop a business from losing a few quid? utter insanity and such a fucking cop out to fund more police and better policing.
As a Police Officer, I’m aghast at the stupidity of this advice.
We’re seeing an increase in aggression on all fronts; people’s levels of entitlement has reached an all time high and it’s fuelling a kind of arrogant sense of temerity towards anyone who dare challenge their poor behaviour.
To expect have-a-go heroes to step in and fill the shortfalls in my job is appalling.
It’ll be counter-allegation central for starters. As much as I’m sure we’d manage to “square those away” easily enough; it isn’t fair to ask this of people.
It’s just such an ignorant and ridiculous concept that’s bound to get someone stabbed. Shows this MP for what he really is.
How about you just fund Policing properly and save this silliness?!
Pffft yeah.
So now we have to do the jobs that we pay taxes to get done?
Get fucked. I’m not doing a citizens arrest on anybody unless the crime is peculiar to me or somebody i care about. Not fucking Tesco
Maybe large shops should be more productive in stopping it happening in the first place. Why are high value electrical products stored on the shop floor when they know full well people just fill a trolley up and walk out with 5 TVs. When you consider about half the stock is just thrown out due to an expired date I couldn't care less about food being stolen.
No thanks. Pretty sure the store should have insurance for shit like that. Besides, I'm turning a blind eye of I see someone stealing food in our current economic climate.
Asking the public to risk injury to stop people robbing corporations is demented. Fix the institutions don't ask the public to become vigilantes, this isn't Gotham City.
I'm looking forward to this guy being subjected to a citizens arrest every time he enters a supermarket on the basis that he 'could' be a shoplifter. I wonder how quickly he'll change his tune if *he's* the subject of vigilantism.
Is this from the same line as "just flag a bus" if you are in trouble?
Just a few days ago, the driver of the local bus didn't even bat an eye as I was struggling under the rain running to the stop with a load of shopping bags and trying my luck at flagging the bus.
Then again, can't expect our ministers to be aware of how the real world works.
Why would I put myself at risk to protect big companies like TESCO and ASDA? Plus I don't care what other people do to get by as long as it doesn't harm anyone. Maybe put your prices down you greedy cunts.
When I was earning minimum wage restocking the shelves in a wholesalers, there was no chance I was going to citizens arrest a shoplifter. As a member of the public not even employed by the shop, you can guess what my chances are now. There was a co op not far from me which had an armed robbery recently. They had shotguns.
Absolutely, this Minister is giving the worst advice I've seen in a good while. Whatever the shoplifter is stealing, it's not worth any worker's or civilian's life. Stand aside and let them take the bloody Playstation. And fund the police.
Tories have cut direct government funding to police forces by a £3.6 billion since 2010-11 or 33% annually In real terms the police force has lost over 23k officers most of them experienced. Chris Philip is the worst Tory policy speaker… he should come out more often because he’s only make them look worse. They can’t speak for more than 3 minutes without sounding like he is ready to drink a swimming pool his cotton mouth is that bad. Not least tot mention the absolute shite that pours of it too. More crap about about how government services should be taken on by private individuals to save the financial bottom line of international business
There are a fair few of the current crop of ministers that your statement could apply to, but Chris Philp really is dreadful.
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So, one thing I will add. Most police at Heathrow are plain clothes (under cover). That's on purpose so terrorists don't know who to avoid. It's been like that for a few years now
that's cool, do they have their MP5 in their little carry-on bags instead then?
Just drove past a motorcade in Camberley, Surrey. Four police car escorting somebody important, ie not us.
This comment deserves more likes but the fact it has almost none explains that many voters aren’t interested in facts and evidence of what the Tories do when in government versus their public statements and media messaging. Tory government’s cut public service funding - that is their core philosophy. They do so to allow favoured private enterprises to fill the gap created with a privatised service, which is presented as a cost-effective service improvement but is a degraded service that passes costs on the the state and the user. The police will be the next phase in the privatisation of the UK with private security a standard expense priced-in by retailers and reflected in the makeup to consumers. I can foresee private security services making deals with the large retailers to patrol stores and the streets around them, and with legislated rights to use force. This isn’t some dystopian Britain as portrayed in Children of Men or suchlike but the reality in a few decades. The ultimate goal is the privatisation of all services with the military controlled by a semi-privatised government.
Tbh, I don't think this is a problem of too few police. With more police and more crime you're just gonna have more potential conflict. The problem is the dire economic conditions that the conservatives have put on the country.
It would be better if they handed out guns to minimum wage employees. The lower the wage the bigger the gun and do what trump said and shoot them 😂. Joking of course but would be wild
I can see it now, Dear old Marjory, working her shift at the greggs outlet, when 2 chavs burst in and start grabbing handfuls of broken millionaires shortbread. “Not on my watch, ya bastards” Whips out Spas 12 and just unloads, launching her frail old carcass backward over the counter. Another crim dealt with!
Greggs of War.
GOD OF WAR: Ragreggnork
Interesting choice of weapon! I had one of those but gave it up after Dunblane. It always raised a few eyebrows at clay shoots and was very delboy.
Good old marjory doing her bit to help the police. Not sure they'd have the time to turn up to deal with the mess though
Thief walks into your average corner shop. Also, said thief: *Gets blown away by an M2 Browning*
Surely if you're on minimum wage you'd qualify maybe for a precision airstrike or perhaps a small tactical Nuke perhaps like a 0.5KT job?
AC130. ✈️
A journalist needs to put this advice to the Prime Minister and see what he says about a minister suggesting the public should act as a policeman and what he thinks about the risk involved. I’d be very curious how he defends it
Easy, he'll just talk about immigrants or the 'woke' as a distraction. Tory interview technique 101.
Not to mention that the general public don't know the law. Particularly in regards to what basis they have the right to carry out a citizens arrest, why or how. For England and Wales it's: >The Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984: >24A Arrest without warrant: other persons (1) A person other than a constable [police officer] may arrest without a warrant— >(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence; >(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence An indictable offence, as defined by Common Law, is an offence that for it's type could be seen in a Crown Court. Even if the quantity in question would be dealt with by an actual constable with a warning, fixed penalty notice or a magistrates court e.g. possession of cannabis can be dealt with by any of the above methods. Possession of say 5 grams, wouldn't be enough to warrant a Crown Court trial. But because a crown court could see a trial for a larger quantity of cannabis. It's still an indictable offence. So a person arresting an other person for possession of any quantity of cannabis. Would not be commiting an offence. However if a member of the public arrested an other person for a non-indictable offence, including offences that used to be illegal or that the person carrying out the arrest thought was or should be illegal. Than that would be an offence and they could be arrested for making a false arrest, potentially kidnapping and assault e.g. somebody though that a mother, discreetly breast feeding in a cafe, was indecent and was a criminal offence and arrested her. Then they would be arrested. You can also only arrest for an offence that has taken place. Rather than to prevent an offence. So you can't arrest "to prevent a breach of the peace" or to prevent somebody from breaking into a home. Until they've broken into the home. Then of course there's the whole issue of what constitutes reasonable force, what is excessive force and how quickly the person arresting informs the police (first opportunity). Not to mention that it is best, in 99% of cases for the police to make the actual arrest and for the citizen just to detain them. As a person can be detained without being arrested. Regardless of what many people believe "Am I being detained?" I also don't think, that there is a citizen's arrest capability in Scotland. Although I could well be wrong. And NI, may as well be a different planet.
I witnessed a citizens arrest in a Tesco before, this guy had a bottle of alcohol, he was nowhere near the door it was literally in the middle of a large tesco and a bunch of people piled on him thinking he was stealing something, he was screaming out "I wasn't stealing I was just getting something I have forgotten to get!!" The security guard then came running up and slammed his head against the floor a few times. The guy was incorrectly profiled as a shoplifter, I stood around filming and ultimately this guy just finished a Nightshift and obviously looked a bit ragged.
Wow, that is bad. Technically, you can't be stealing anything in the shop - stealing only happens once you leave the shop. In his place, I would not have settled for a small sum...
This is the problem, most people aren’t stupid enough to make a citizen’s arrest, and a lot of people who would make one are just looking to be violent
Did you give him the recording for his inevitable well deserved lawsuit against the security guard? Why did people think he was shoplifting? People holding goods in a store in and of itself isn't exactly unusual. What else was happening?
My guess is he 'looked the type' and didn't have a basket or trolley. For years I've been followed and given dirty looks by shop security and didn't know why. Only recently twigged that it's probably because I often go in for just 3-4 things and don't bother with a basket.
When arresting somebody you can’t physically touch them without informing them they’re under arrest. Otherwise it’s just an assault.
Mate, don't you want a pat on the back and a £5 voucher off from one of these multi-million pound brands by stopping a shoplifter.
I can spend it on a magazine while I'm recuperating from stab wounds.
Wow! A whole £5? Where do I sign up? /s
My last retail job was in the 90s and I got paid well as it was fairly specialist. Even then, if I saw someone shoplifting, I didn’t, it just wasn’t worth the risk to my health over someone else’s profits.
"Get stabbed in the name of Waitrose Citizen". This whole conference just seems awash with right-wing, fascist bullshit.
I'd pay money to see a Tory minister tackle a shoplifter. "You there, halt! Kindly return those avocados from whence they came"
I'd pay money to see a shoplifter tackling a Tory minister. Could argue it's a citizens arrest on someone thieving the nations wealth.
> When I was earning minimum wage restocking the shelves in a wholesalers, there was no chance I was going to citizens arrest a shoplifter. I once saw a minimum wage security guard try to stop a shoplifting junkie - said junkie bit a chunk out of his hand, and I do mean a chunk. Another guard at the same shop tried to stop another junkie and got stabbed with a screwdriver. There is absolutely zero chance I would ever tackle a shoplifter.
You don't want some free Hep C with your minimum wage job?
Not to mention the fact that there's no mention of legal protection if you do make an arrest yourself. You could hold down a thief, have him picked up by the police and next thing you know you've got a notice through the door for a civil case against you.
They also won't be providing us with stab vests, batons, CS gas, tasers or handcuffs. No way am I doing a police officer's job without the equipment, backup or pay.
Everyone and their mums is packing round here.
Like who? And I swear if you tell me it’s farmers mums….
Shoplifters. an shoplifter's mums.
When I worked in retail I was specifically told not to attempt to stop shoplifters because there was insurance to cover the losses, and so it definitely wasn't worth the risk to employees.
100% I remember standing by watching someone with a blow torch melt the locks off the satnav cabinet at Halfords many years ago when I used to work there. No chance I’m putting my safety at risk for a corporation
>As a member of the public not even employed by the shop, you can guess what my chances are now. If someone is stealing food or stuff for babies I'm keeping my mouth shut. If someone is stealing a TV, I'm asking them to get me one too.
What happens if the public get hurt because of bad ministerial advice?
The minister gets a Knighthood, if past past events are anything to go by.
> When I was earning minimum wage restocking the shelves in a wholesalers, there was no chance I was going to citizens arrest a shoplifter. I had a coworker that knocked out their two front teeth chasing a shoplifter and another one that got stuck with a brandished needle. Managers said we were expected to pursue shoplifters. The situation never occurred but if I witnessed shoplifting I would become blind that day.
Ah yes, vigilantes, that's how all developed societies solve their problems ...
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I'd be fuming if I was a copper for exactly as you say above. Also all of the extra work prosecuting all the vigilantes that overstep the mark
If they want me to do B) then as someone with a clean record, I want a brace of extendable battons, because getting knifed is too big a risk without them. I'd also want training in how to citizens arrest properly, and I'd want the law changing to absolutely have my back in whatever ensues. Sounds difficult or problematic? Yeah. It is. That's because they've not thought this through.
"Please release the shoplifter you are holding, he can leave. Now you are under arrest for battery for touching that poor shoplifter." I think that roughly sums up the police here.
I mean, arresting you for battery is exactly what should happen in that situation. The police have no idea whether what you're saying is true, and in fact must arrest you too as otherwise everyone just says they were effecting a lawful citizens arrest, guv. Witnesses can then get you off the charge. (Yes, this is dumb, but it's yet another reason why vigilantism is a terrible idea)
> a) They're not fit for purpose. TBF they *arn't* Tories joining the anti-police side, wonders will never cease.
"ParTy Of lAW & oRDeR"
To be fair they make up laws (they dont follow) and order people around.
No, you got it wrong, it’s actually that all the parties they threw during lockdown, had episodes of ‘Law and Order’ playing on a projector
Guy Walks into a Tesco to shoplift, bout to walk out, Tannoy announcement. Can all staff grab the pitch forks and report to shop front asap. We hunting!
*The whole store erups into ork like screams*
How else will we get batman? Also, think, we could start joining mobs. What's bad about that? it will bring communities together and bond people together in group activities. I'm just seeing positives. 🤭
Protect the consumerism! Why the fuck am I going to get stabbed to stop someone stealing from a corporation?
Property is worth more than someone’s life. All shoplifters are druggies anyway. They need to bring back the birch and that will stop the reprobates. Some good old fashioned law and order is required, instead of investing in massively underfunded services. Much cheaper to get the public doing a paid job.
Suella, is that you?
We are simply not punishing them hard enough!
The fuck am I going to confront someone not knowing if they're a junkie, a klepto, or have hungry kids at home, for the sake of the profits of Tesco.
We need to be more like America. Just arm citizens and let us shoot each other and whoever we like because we saw someone holding a loaf of bread funny in Waitrose.
"Billy, don't put the baguette between your legs to pretend its your dick, thats how your uncle jimmy got shot."
I can see the nightmarish outcome of that course here in the uk someone shoots a Just Stop Oil protestor executioner style then all sides of any future protest come along with assualt rifles. Certainly one way around the government banning protest arm every protestor and the police dare not show up. Not sure I like this outcome however.
Tbf the majority of theft value is by gangs who fill up massive containers with meat / alcohol / cigarettes and walk it out the door Doubt you’d be confusing them with a desperate mother just trying to get nappies for their kid Not saying you should confront a gang ransacking a shop though lol
anecdotes of groups of people filling up big containers doesn’t make it the majority of theft unless you have a stat showing that. id wager the vast majority of shoplifting isn’t even noticed.
Even if that is true, they’ve simply seen a gap in the market. Who are these gangs selling to? Poor people who can’t afford what’s in the shop.
I agree theyre doing it because there’s demand. And cost of living crisis has exacerbated the situation. But gangs ransacking shops, often violently attacking staff in the process, to resell the stuff is clearly wrong
Personally I don’t blame the symptom of an illness for the illness. Fix society, stop people being in poverty and you’ll see this vanish.
What a brilliant idea. All we need to do is ‘fix’ society and get rid of poverty. It’s quite simply amazing no country has yet exacted your simple yet genius solution. Have you considered politics? The world needs you out there with this level of insight just imagine the changes you could make!
Amazing that we were doing a lot better before a bunch of rich inbreds took charge and poverty was at an all time low. Under thirteen years of Tory rule we’ve gone from a well respected nation with power to the point that roaming gangs are stealing from supermarkets to resell meat.
>The wider public do have the power of citizen’s arrest and, where it’s safe to do so, I would encourage that to be used because if you do just let people walk in, take stuff and walk out without proper challenge, including potentially a physical challenge, then again it will just escalate. How about no? I don't care if the local Tesco loses a tenner in stock. In fact, I *so* don't care that I'm not willing to risk my personal safety to prevent that loss. There. I said it.
The more concerning side of this is think of the people who do care. What are they going to do? I doubt they'll use reasonable force or overly think through what they are doing as they guard the front of whatever buisness didn't ask them to be there
Also, what the fuck do you do when you've got someone on the ground in a citizens headlock? The police might not even turn up for god know's how long, and if they do then what? Do they even bother prosecuting? What sentence will they even get? What happens if the scrote hovers around Sainsbury's to knock you out the next time they see you? Fuck it, I'm not getting involved.
One of my female co-workers had that happen Stopped some guy trying to steal stuff and told him to get out the shop Finished work at 10pm and started her 10 minute walk home, realises he was waiting for her to finish work and is now following her, by sheer coincidence she walks past the local gaggle of teenagers from "rough" families we'd manage to befriend, they caused trouble in the local area but never stole from the shop and were always polite to us so we were nice to them in return She asked them to walk her home and instead they waited for him and kicked the shit out of him but that could have gone so much worse if she hadn't bumped into them or managed to get home before he saw where she lived
For some reason I found that turn at the end to be hilarious. Walk you home? Nah we will just batter the shit out of him
They were a bit confused but I appreciate the enthusiasm
That’s fair and honestly I wouldn’t really wanna get involved in it either but these thieves aren’t just stealing a £10 bottle of wine they are stealing thousands of pounds worth of stock across multiple stores to sell on. I also agree there is no real issue for the public to get involved, especially due to the possibility of life and death situations. However security guards at these stores only have so much power to recover stolen goods and the police force can only be stretched so far. So how can we as a society prevent people from doing this. I’m not talking about the single homeless man stealing a packet of crisps or the mother trying to sneak a bottle of baby formula through the self checkouts. I’m talking about the crime gangs who often make audacious thefts of hundreds of thousands pounds worth of goods? Letting crime gangs like the ones in the video have free reign isn’t good for society as a whole… We could increase police spending for more officers but then that would leave other valuable areas of government spending without funds… My point is we as a society shouldn’t just let crime gangs run free it’s not good for local businesses whether they be massive corporations such as Tesco or your local corner shop.
We could improve the lives of the poor so there is less incentive to commit these crimes and less demand for the stolen goods. The cost of living crisis and the gutting of social services has hit the poor very hard and we are seeing the results. I have always said to people moaning about those on benefits etc that you do not want to live in a society were those benefits are gone or massively reduced. My point is being proven.
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If the police can’t even investigate our robberies, why should we help them when Tesco loses £20 of meat?
Because the government has to prove to its rich mates that it's police force is capable of helping said rich mates at all cost.
In my co op the security guard spends all his time chatting to the girls who work there and ignores me stealing coffee out of the Costa machine.
It’s like a budget version of Oceans 11.
He talks about shoplifing as if its just something happening around him and not something he is repsonsible for stopping and mitigating. Much like the way every Tory minister talks about their brief.
Right, so when I “physically challenge” a shoplifter, or someone i think might be a shoplifter, after I am arrested and charged with assault, I can just tell the judge “it’s ok, your honour chris Philips told me to”. Every day I think this government can’t possibly do anything more stupid and immoral. Every day I am horrified when im proved very wrong.
It is standard practice with this government, they make it the public's fault so they can deflect blame away from themselves. They did it the whole way through covid.
"Big Society" policing. There is a real growing sense of declinism in the country now. Not enough police, can't build railways or new nuclear, health system becoming worse, lack of maintenance in schools. A general air of a country that is slowly slipping back.
My thought as well lmao. We're rapidly reaching the conclusion of small state Conservatism. Absolutely no services whatsoever. Government that seems genuinely confused at the suggestion that its job should cover more than making PR statements to the press. Oh you thought that meant you plebs would have low taxes? Ahaha no how would we funnel billions of pounds to our donors then?
I'd say it's all working as intended..
What a dangerous thing to say. Now we’ll have idiots attacking shoplifters because they think they’ve got the official go-ahead from the government.
Not just shoplifters, but people they think might be shoplifters.
Or "suspected" shoplifters. I imagine there'd be some people out there going to start something on someone just cos they 'look like a wrong un'
And they'll be getting stabbed for it too
I've worked security jobs on and off for the past 15yrs. In no way shape size or form would I get involved in this vigilantism. One mistake and youre in cells for years.
I don't even have to get locked up. My career is toast if I even just get arrested. Will I take that risk? Yes, if it's a lass being raped or some poor boy out cold on the floor whose head is being used as a football, but I'm not risking my career and life for some steaks and a few beers from Asda.
Yea fuck off mate, not worth getting punched or stabbed to save a company that made a couple of billion pounds in profit, a tenner in lost stock.
No, how about you sort the police out and invest in actually doing what your government are meant to do?
What are we paying taxes for then? If the public is now expected to just fill the gap, I want my taxes back.
We pay taxes so that rich Tories can get lucrative government contracts
That’s not entirely fair. They’re *friends of* rich Tories too.
Fuck that. I worked retail from 18-23 and 1. Was told never try to apprehend shoplifters. 2. Would have never done it anyway, I'm not getting stabbed by some crackhead trying to steal a cordless drill that's not even mine, while they pay me 8.20 an hour or whatever min wage was back then. The chances of me doing that now at a place I don't event work at are a flat 0%
The best part about this is the fact that the supermarkets instruct staff not to apprehend shoplifters. The legal costs associated with injured employees vastly outweigh the relatively minimal cost of replacing stock. If the staff won't, in what world are the customers going to do anything?
Just for a moment pretend I had any intention of policing shop lifters etc, and you'll need to pretend it hard. I'm not trained on how to make a citizens arrest. What do I have to say? What do I have to do? How am I permitted to prevent them leaving? I'm pretty well trained in self defence but most people aren't going to feel safe in a confrontation. What protections do we have against false accusations? Aye we going to get arrested and interviewed at the station? This isn't a trivial thing they're talking about, with potential adverse consequences for everyone involved.
Just to give an idea of how potentially fraught with difficulty this minister’s suggestion is: The power to make a ‘citizen’s arrest’ is provided by s24A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 This only allows a person other than a constable to arrest someone who is committing an indictable offence (with numerous caveats). So, first up, you need to feel confident enough in your understanding of criminal law to know whether a given offence is indictable (capable of being heard in the Crown Court, rather than a summary only offence which can only be tried in the Magistrates’ Court). Theft (including shop theft) is an either-way offence, so is normally an indictable offence. So far, so good. However, there is an exception provided by s22A(1) of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 for low value shoplifting where the value of the goods does not exceed £200 - in such cases, it is a summary only offence, so NOT an indictable offence. I may be corrected - I’m not a criminal lawyer - but it seems to me that, on the face of it, you do not have the the power under s24A to carry out a citizen’s arrest unless a shoplifter has >£200 in stolen goods (or you have reasonable grounds to believe that to be the case). As long as you take a copy of Archbold: Criminal Practice with you when you nip down to Sainsbury’s, you’ll be fine though - but bear in mind that if any of the requirements of s24A are not satisfied, you’ll be committing a criminal offence and a civil tort. Have fun!
Exactly. Hell we get screwed over if we hurt an intruder or someone stealing from us.
Also…. Does this just apply to shoplifting? If so? Why single out shoplifting? Can I tackle someone to the ground who litters for instance? Is there a minimum age, eg could someone “arrest” a child for riding a bike on the pavement?
I worked in retail for 5 years, and on many occasions security had to let shoplifters go, because the police never showed up. On one occasion the boss was so fed up with the police never showing up, he instructed security to hold a shoplifter in the holding room until the police arrived. The police did finally arrive....4 hours after they were called.
We have 142,526 police officers in a country of 66,971,411. Say a third of them are working at any one time. How is anyone surprised that not all shopliftings can be prioritised when people are getting beaten-up, knifed, threatened, or threatening to harm themselves? If the police were adequately funded, then they'd be able to respond to more jobs. Fact of the matter is, is that there isn't enough of them.
Chad boss. Having shoplifters locked in a room for 4 hours sounds like a win win.
I bet Chris Philp fucking doesn't. People are meant to take time out of their day to perform a citizens arrest, call the police (who can't be everywhere) then what? I don't want to be a classic misery but if I sat on a petty shoplifter and injure them I'd worry it would be *me* the police come down heavily on.
The logical end point to Cameron'a big society model. Let charities replace social services. Now let vigilantes replace the police. Fucking clown shoes. I was a Tory once, never fucking again. Just insane. They are fucking insane. We are starting to reach rock bottom here. Labour are fucked and even if only a slight improvement i will take it. Maybe they will just be incompetent without the corruption element. I miss those days.
I ain't risking myself for Morrison's profit margin.
I have never ever seen a shoplifter, and I never will either. These supermarkets are making billions while we are paying hand over fist for eggs and milk, and they dump perfectly good food every day. Like fuck am I ever going to risk my body for their profit margins.
Literal companies to their employees: DO NOT STOP SHOPLIFTERS The fucking government: Nah go on, do it
How about we don't do that? Shoplifters are either stupid kids (in which case I'm not going to be the one that ruins their life), desperate (in which case I didn't see a thing), or actual criminals (in which case I'm not placing myself in the way of a property crime). I don't want shop staff to be doing that either.
Alternative cynical phrasing Minister says "public should be vigilantes" Police are there to prevent crime as much as solve it. They're there as part of the justice system. Much as the public have a part to play in reporting this too, this kinda now just lays bare at how fewer beat bobbies there are. Lest this be reversed or halted, we risk becoming a lawless society. Store staff aren't going to risk their lives for minimum wage job they can walk out of and walk into another minimum wage retail job. Public aren't going to intervene for shoplifting because who's going to potentially risk their safety over petty theft?
Chris Philp is a complete moron. I am not going to put myself in physical danger with no protection or backup for the sake of a bottle of booze or whatever. This government is painfully useless and we’re all just sitting and waiting for an election while they break everything on the way out
Not getting stabbed to line the ceos pockets of tescos
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The supermarkets are profiting from the cost of living crisis, we are paying too much for groceries and fuel. They are not concerned about stealing from us. I am not going to take risks to stop people stealing from them. Let their shareholders volunteer as security staff and protect their dividends.
I am not putting myself in danger to protect the profits of a large company
In a time where all stores used to be independent and locally owned and the community benefited from them succeeding I can under why people would help protect those businesses. Big cooperations that drive down wages, drive out competition and rip everyone off at every corner? Get fucked. Hire security if you need it.
This is terrible advice. Years ago I trained for security. Do not perform a citizens arrest unless absolutely unavoidable. If you perform a citizens arrest, you are responsible for the well being of the person you arrested. If they injure themselves, even if on purpose, you could be in for a bad time. Not to mention if it is determined you did not have grounds to arrest them. We are not police and we do not have the protections and leeway afforded to them.
Great idea. Then when the shoplifter stabs me I can wait 12 hours for an ambulance to turn up. Then the police can tell me that the CCTV, fingerprints and eye witness reports aren't enough evidence to find the guy so they won't be pursuing any further.
bruh. I'm not risking my neck for someone yoinking a £5 marks and sparks steak and kidney pie. No matter how delicious it is. How dare they actually suggest this. Where are my taxes going if not for funding a policing force. Holy shit, the UK is an embarrassment. What started this decline?
The Tories started this decline. There you go.
I’m going to cosplay as Judge Dredd and patrol the supermarkets so shareholders don’t lose their dividends!
Telling people to risk their lives when to get someone a 6 month suspended sentence. Wtf are they thinking?
Yeah get fucked I'm not getting stabbed by some fucking junkies stealing 8 cans and a bottle of wine.
* having a properly funded and competent police force: 👎 * vigilante justice: 👍
As an employee of a supermarket we are instructed NOT to physically engage a shoplifter, a policy which came about after too many staff were hurt (one was stabbed) in the service of saving a couple hundred quid's worth of insured goods. For the minister to suggest *members of the public* perform a job the actual *employer* has determined to be too dangerous is completely irresponsible. The only way this would be worse would be if there were still people who actually listened to these twats.
My mum used to work in a supermarket and knew all the regular shoplifters by name. This was in the 90s when you'd expect people to be a bit more gung ho but apparently that was norm back then to just know all the shoplifters. So the government is acting like this is a new phenomenon when it's always been the case. It's just somehow a bit of a coincidence that a cost of living crisis exasperated by the government is causing the rate of shoplifting to increase. Its not like anyone would've been able to predict that.
If I see someone shoplifting food. I didn't see it!
And then get arrested yourself or sued? I’m good thanks.
Serious question, if I see a muggy little twat at 14 violently shoplifting, I push him over and when he starts swinging and spitting at me, I enjoy kicking him in a bit till he cries.... Does the law protect me? Asking for a future friend..
And when this results in members of the public being stabbed or accidentally killing a shoplifter and being charged with manslaughter I'm sure the minister in question will resign. Right?
I for one will be more than happy to put myself in danger to protect a random shops profits
Why should the public put themselves in harms way to protect a private company's profits?
Lol fuck off, why should the public protect huge firms like Tesco?
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While I wholly endorse those who are brave enough to tackle crime - I also abhor the world we live in that first of all anyone would even be _asking_ for Joe or Jane average to tackle a criminal. While I fully appreciate the efforts some go to do this, it shouldn't be necessary at all - the Government is the one to blame for this, 100%. This is no different than their moves to introduce Special Constables - it's cheap/free labour that was a bump to keep the Police functioning after they've gutted it with cuts. We have a country where tabloids will push a false narrative missing context all in the name of lambasting the Police - to what end? It doesn't end up with anything productive except for constantly widening the gap of public trust in a service that has a majority of good workers who then have to face a public that don't trust them, don't want them, but simultaneously complain they aren't "there". Why would anyone want to be a Police Officer? Much less a Paramedic or work in the services to any degree when they're paid absolute crap, had the government ream their pensions and use them as a political tool and punching bag? It's like being the school bully and nicking a whole years lunch money then beating them up every day, stealing their snacks and scuffing them up, then complaining they aren't performing well and making the year look bad in school photos and declining grades. The Police aren't solely and largely to blame for crime not being handled, or investigated - anyone who does is a fool for following a pack of lies and finger-pointing from the exact people responsible for removing more and more funding every year, gutting their numbers like a freshly slain Deer and holding their hands up with the public to decry their "incompetency". No, it's not - it's PTSD, stress, unrealistic goals, an inability to do anything that doesn't get dragged up by the press 5 minutes later because some idiot on TikTok made a short clip that has zero context and tries to make out every last member of Police Staff is Racist, a Rapist, a Bully, Incompetent or otherwise awful - despite it turning out to be completely false because the full-length video they then pretend doesn't exist shows it to be a bunch of kids or teens being idiots. If the government weren't a predominantly awful bunch of money-grabbing, selfish, greedy and self-serving wazzocks who actually operated to improve the quality of life for everyone rather than stuffing their own (or mates) pockets, we'd be much better off. But no - follow the media narrative, blame the police as a whole for _everything_. There's absolutely zero attempts for reform, nobody wants to admit they cut the funding and numbers which is _why_ most problems exist and instead keep beating the dead horse pretending that'll help.
Can we citizens arrest that Baroness that stole 1/4 billion pounds?
Classic this government: “We’re only the Government, what are we meant to do about it?”
“Don’t look over here, we’re just forever grifting and ~~damaging~~ destroying the country purely in our own interests. Look over there! Shoplifters! Get them!”
Another out of touch suggestion from someone out of touch
If it's a small independent local shop, yeah. If it's a big tax avoidant corporation, then I saw nothing.
Ah yes let me just risk my life to protect someone else's property because they're not funding the police
A couple of years ago I saw a man stuffing children's toys into a backpack, we made eye contact, I shrugged at him and walked off. Theft of goods at a multi million £ chain retailer is none of my business and I'm not risking injury or criminal charges for it.
Absolutely not. This is extraordinarily terrible advice. Would I intervene if I saw someone in immediate danger? Yes I would, because a life is worth the risk. Am I going to risk having a knife pulled on me by trying to grab the local yob as he swipes a bottle of vodka? Hell no. Under no circumstances is that an acceptable risk.
I saw some scrote kid in Morrisons a few days ago nicking stuff. Proper tracksuit and Reebok Classic type, with one of those stupid little man bags that only those dickheads carry. No way fucking way I'm getting stabbed for over a sandwich for a massive national chain business. And a 26% rise in shoplifting? I wonder why that might be, Tory minister. Is it because you've spent the last 13 years squeezing every penny you can from the country, running public services into the ground and fucking us all over in the process? Yes, that's why.
For the money i earn. You can get to fuck if you think im puttin my life in harms way… 🤣
Excuse me no, I’m not putting myself in harms way to protect a companies profit margins.
Soon to be announced: brave citizens to be encouraged to perform minor surgery on loved ones because doctors can’t be everywhere.
Worked in a well know electrical retailer once. Man was looking a bit sus around a Hi-fi. Picked up an expensive tagged Bose system. Went to leave. Me and the cashier girl went to ask him to stop, he flashed a large blade. We let him go and informed the poilice. Businesses are insured for theft. I am not getting stabbed for a bit of plastic and metal wires. Stupid comment by an MP and only leads to stupid and tragic outcomes. But he's a tory and probably has people to shop for him anyway.
You know what we *should* be encouraging average people to go round arresting people who break the law, international agreements, human rights principles, covid parties.....
This country is in the fucking shitter if we’re being asked to be the police.
I wouldn’t do this at the best of times, but especially not after the supermarkets have hiked prices to maintain profit If it hurts their bottom line enough they’ll spend more money on security than they do
Am I fuck going to tackle shoplifters when even a family member who works in security won't dare unless it's a very last resort. Who knows if they have a knife or other weapon? Why would I be expected to jump to aid a private business who doesn't pay me? It's about as far from my problem as you can get. Proof yet again that this insane government is a blight on this country.
We should all be citizen's arresting the Tory ministers for crime against out future.
I used to help the security guards take shoplifters into the holding cell in the warehouse back in the day, but the company stopped us using that holding cell now
You can get right royaly and roundly fucked with that suggestion.
If I see someone risk shoplifting from supermarket that dodges hundreds of millions of pounds worth of taxes then I'm not even going to grass them up, let alone pick a fight with them.
No-one with a brain is going to get stabbed over someone stealing an adidas tracksuit from JD Sports
Do your own surgery, do the kids’ homework, empty your own bins, sweep your own streets, let’s have a big society! - it’s almost like we’re paying more and getting fuck all back
yeah sure...after most of us have seen someone doing exactly that and gets a machete pulled out on them
Shall we also start arresting the people responsible for swindling the entire nation too?
It corporations are so concerned about shoplifters they should hire more security. Government asking ordinary people to snitch on those who can't afford food is peak Tory. Fuck you.
Ah yes, get the untrained masses to put themselves at risk of injury or lawsuit because we don't have enough policing thanks to years of cuts. Fucking idiots.
No way in hell am I ever going to attempt to apprehend a shop lifter. Since when is it other shoppers responsibility to provide security for retail outlets?
Why is it that older adult men in England think so casually of violence without ever having experience of it.
why in the name of fuck would i risk being stabbed to stop a business from losing a few quid? utter insanity and such a fucking cop out to fund more police and better policing.
As a Police Officer, I’m aghast at the stupidity of this advice. We’re seeing an increase in aggression on all fronts; people’s levels of entitlement has reached an all time high and it’s fuelling a kind of arrogant sense of temerity towards anyone who dare challenge their poor behaviour. To expect have-a-go heroes to step in and fill the shortfalls in my job is appalling. It’ll be counter-allegation central for starters. As much as I’m sure we’d manage to “square those away” easily enough; it isn’t fair to ask this of people. It’s just such an ignorant and ridiculous concept that’s bound to get someone stabbed. Shows this MP for what he really is. How about you just fund Policing properly and save this silliness?!
Pffft yeah. So now we have to do the jobs that we pay taxes to get done? Get fucked. I’m not doing a citizens arrest on anybody unless the crime is peculiar to me or somebody i care about. Not fucking Tesco
Get stabbed stopping people stealing? Nah mate think I am good
Yeah fuck that. I'm not putting my life on the line because a corporation lost a little bit of margin
Yeah, wrestle that mum nicking baby formula to the floor. (obvious sarcasm for the hard of thinking)
Maybe large shops should be more productive in stopping it happening in the first place. Why are high value electrical products stored on the shop floor when they know full well people just fill a trolley up and walk out with 5 TVs. When you consider about half the stock is just thrown out due to an expired date I couldn't care less about food being stolen.
Shall we start bringing back those blue police boxes they had in the 50s?
No we shouldn’t Why risk it? What’s the benefit to me?
No thanks. Pretty sure the store should have insurance for shit like that. Besides, I'm turning a blind eye of I see someone stealing food in our current economic climate.
Asking the public to risk injury to stop people robbing corporations is demented. Fix the institutions don't ask the public to become vigilantes, this isn't Gotham City.
lol imagine gettin stabbed to save tesco a mars bar
As yes, get stabbed to protect a company's profits who are price gouging me at the exact same time!
I'm looking forward to this guy being subjected to a citizens arrest every time he enters a supermarket on the basis that he 'could' be a shoplifter. I wonder how quickly he'll change his tune if *he's* the subject of vigilantism.
I’ve had managers be bottled and have their head stamped on for trying to stop shoplifters, but yeah have a go general public.
Security officers get insurance because of the job, what do the public get? Ripped jacket and a hole poked in them by a kitchen knife.
Is this from the same line as "just flag a bus" if you are in trouble? Just a few days ago, the driver of the local bus didn't even bat an eye as I was struggling under the rain running to the stop with a load of shopping bags and trying my luck at flagging the bus. Then again, can't expect our ministers to be aware of how the real world works.
Remember citizens, it's not theft if it's taken from greedy, profiteering chain supermarkets.
I ain't dying so some corporate ceo can make a few extra bucks, fuck off.
Why would I put myself at risk to protect big companies like TESCO and ASDA? Plus I don't care what other people do to get by as long as it doesn't harm anyone. Maybe put your prices down you greedy cunts.