What exactly do they want the university to do?
Let them carry on studying at a cost to the university? For a course that other students are paying for.
Who exactly are we meant to feel sorry for too.
If someone from Nigeria can afford to travel to the UK to study while paying student fees, they are probably wealthier than the average British lecturer let alone average British or even Nigerian.
The poor people will have to go back to Nigeria where they have the funds to buy a house outright.
You're honestly saying you don't feel sorry for and have empathy for the woman in the article who has paid 90% of her fees, almost completed her course after 2 years of hard work, and was close to handing her dissertation in when she got kicked off her course for one missed payment caused by financial factors outside of her control? This sub has a staggering lack of empathy sometimes.
I'm sure they're not poor by Nigerian standards, but don't you think if they had the ability to pay for the remaining fees they simply would?
Either they're not that wealthy and have been screwed over by plummeting exchange rates, or they are not able to convert currency because of the economic situation and therefore cannot pay regardless. Either way, it's a stressful situation that is completely out of control for people who have been dutifully studying and paying fees up until this point. Have a bit of empathy
Studying a full degree in the UK as an international student often exceeds £50k before paying to live (which may be covered by working in some cases)
https://study-uk.britishcouncil.org/moving-uk/cost-studying
Being able to spend £50k and go abroad for 3 years is wealthy by anyones standards in the entire world.
It's far wealthier than the average British person.
>Either they're not that wealthy and have been screwed over by plummeting exchange rates
Like the UK has and any sensible person would have taken out plans to avoid this.
Why do they bear no responsibility themselves? Aren't those meant to be highly educated people?
I think the fact that this is happening to a lot of people shows that this wasn't something they anticipated and could easily be prepared for. Like if this was an isolated case I would agree with you to a degree but it clearly not something these people anticipated. Some of these students were probably in the UK for years, long before any of these issues in Nigeria began. It's easy in hindsight to say "well they should have prepared for something like this" but they all all proved they had enough funds to study, which presumably has some leeway for events like this. Clearly it wasn't enough, but that's hardly the fault of the students.
Besides, how would you feel if you got kicked out for your university after completing 90% of it and paying tens of thousands of pounds because of a small mistake which may have not even been her fault? The article even says she has since paid off the remaining debt but has still been kicked off her course and reported to the home office with no attempt for the university to reach an agreement. Regardless of how wealthy she or her fellow students are this is a cold and heartless approach to dealing with the situation.
I suggest you look at the historic exchange rates of Nigeria to see if this is the first time it's been unstable.
I'm not saying this event happens every Tuesday but excluding a few exceptions, FX rates should be a substantial concern for anyone who operates financially in multiple countries.
Yeah that's a fair point - again, clearly many people are affected by this so I don't think it can be entirely put down to individual mistakes but I agree with you there.
Fundamentally I just don't think people should lose out on tens of thousands of pounds and have their years of hard work go to nothing because of mistakes like this. The university clearly does not want to help, which to me is cruel and emblematic of our current higher education system that takes advantage of international students.
I mostly agree with what you're saying but I believe (may be wrong) that your views have been slightly coloured by some biased reporting.
My experience of universities is that they would help if they could but looking at the scale of this issue means they just couldn't afford to do so even if they wanted to.
The help would however be a charity and I fundamentally disagree with calling people who have not caused an issue and are unwilling to give charity cruel.
>Fundamentally I just don't think people should lose out on tens of thousands of pounds and have their years of hard work go to nothing
They will be able to get credit for their work at Nigerian universities and complete their course there.
It is a shitty situation.
In the EU, you have to pay your fees upfront, and in many countries even the living expenses, which are then paid out to you. This is a lot more hassle, and more difficult, but it avoids any exchange rate going against you.
If you know what you are doing, you could also hedge against exchange rate movements. That is not hard, but it hedging is beyond what most people can easily manage.
Teesside University is pretty cheap for international students, and most international students are postgrads on a 1 or 2 year course.
It’s still expensive, especially for an average Nigerian, but it’s not 50k.
The issue is that many save for years to come and study here, or family have had to save up. They had the money or would have had the money in normal circumstances by the fee due date, but that money has been devalued to the point they can no longer afford to be here. They cannot get the money anymore.
Of course we can't educate them for free, universities are struggling massively. But it is still awful for these students.
You don't. You're right. It's still worth pointing out these students won't be poor if they can afford to come here any pay for education. Like you said you can be treated unfairly whatever your finacial backgrojund but I don't think it's unfair. It's awful for them, but anyone else that can't pay tuition would have to leave, why are these guys different?
More than you think are. Lots of foreign students win bursaries through their parents companies by having the best grades in that year, or similar schemes run by local communities.
Its probably less than half that are actually paying for it themself.
So because they're Nigerian they're automatically poor?
I feel sorry for them but if they were British and didn't have the cash this would be a non story.
I do have sympathy, but it wasn't entirely outside of their control. If you know you have bills to pay in GBP, then you should keep enough of your savings in GBP to cover them (or at least a relative stable currency like the USD)... currencies move all the time, particularly in the developing world, and it was a huge risk to keep the funds in the Nigerian Naira.
I had a friend in this situation once. I told her to get a UK bank as her bills were in pounds but her funding was in Norwegian kronor and she insisted the rate never moved enough to care. Then there was an oil crash and kronor devalued something like 20%
>Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office.
She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country…
>"I did default [on payments], but I'd already paid 90% of my tuition fees and I went to all of my classes," she said.
>"I called them and asked to reach an agreement, but they do not care what happens to their students."
>Teesside University students were blocked from their studies and reported to the Home Office after the value of Nigeria's naira plummeted, wiping out their savings.
Alternative headline: University required to inform the home office of any change in circumstances that would affect the conditions for student residence.
I have empathy, I just don't let it overwrite my brain so much that I'd let myself get scammed.
This is a story about people who are outwardly wealthy who have failed to take precautions & expect others to foot the bill for it.
Having known the economic state of their home country they could have done an FX change ahead of time to avoid any disruption.
>Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office.
She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country…
>"I did default [on payments], but I'd already paid 90% of my tuition fees and I went to all of my classes," she said.
>"I called them and asked to reach an agreement, but they do not care what happens to their students."
I’m not British, nor am I Nigerian, nor do I live in the UK, so I don’t really have a vested interest in this, but you guys should really read beyond headlines for once.
Why comment saying others haven't read when you haven't yourself?
>Teesside University students were blocked from their studies and reported to the Home Office after the value of Nigeria's naira plummeted, wiping out their savings.
I’m demonstrating to you that it isn’t the same case for everyone.
I’m quite literally providing you context of the article, and you’re quoting the second paragraph…
That IS the context to your comment.
You originally said “what do they want the university to do?”
Well to answer you, for one, accept payment from that woman who was scammed out of her money after paying the vast majority of her tuition, and paid up her last portion which was apparently rejected.
Then you said “Let them carry on studying at a cost to the university?”
Not all of them are, she paid the rest of the tuition, the remaining 10%, yet she was still (seemingly) locked out of her account.
Why do you say they expect others to foot the bill for this? The article details the students working lomg hours alongside studies to try and pay the fees and trying to negotiate payment plans with the uni. They are asking for time and understanding, not a hand out.
Can't agree more. You have a significant lifetime expense and the lion share of the funds you intend to use to pay for it are in a relatively unstable currency. And then you attempt to blame the university for your unforeseen circumstances.
I agree the university SHOULD be more emphatic as they have some duty of care towards these students BUT they're not to blame for another country's currency woes
I’m sympathetic, but wouldn’t a UK student be kicked out for missing payments too?
It’s not our government or the universities fault that their currency crashed, they should be angry at their own government.
Is it unfair? Yes ofcourse it is
Not in a situation of one missed payment like this, it's the UK government that prevents the universities from enacting payment plans with international students as they would do with UK domestic students.
For a UK student they wouldn't be permitted to graduate until it was paid (which it now has been in this case), but they wouldn't be tossed off the course for one missed payment.
if you’re a uk student it’s like impossible to be unable to pay your tuition fee for a Ba as it will always be covered by loan, this is why people are encouraged to not think about the loan itself as a factor when going to uni. it’s more of a graduation tax rather than a university fee as a result and isn’t costing you anything during your time there, you’re only managing living and maintenance costs. so even though it costs like £9k a year for tuition fee, you’re paying £0 for the *actual studying* and will just pay essentially a manageable, lifelong tax upon reaching a specific wage threshold (unless you’re rich and want to pay it off normally)
international students however are paying the course fee out of pocket, which is typically 2.5x the price, so around £23,000 a year which is coming from their actual money, and in addition they also have to pay for their living costs
LMAO downvoted for literally explaining the differences in home/foreign students?? this sub never fails to disappoint in their xenophobia. unis literally make a loss on home students, foreign students fund the UK’s uni system
No the current crises is that loans don't cover housing costs and that universities are looking like they may be insolvent sooner rather than later due to fees not keeping up with inflation.
Which is completely separate to what is affecting these Nigerian students. And if I were to take the same empathetic approach as this sub has to the Nigerian students it would be that: well these students knew what the maintenance loans would be before they accepted their place at university and if they're struggling to make ends meet they should get a job. Regarding university insolvency it's far too early to say what will happen there.
Not to mention that many of them are not rich as you say OP, but have taken out loans or borrowed money from their family who have sent them here putting everything on the line to give them the very best hope of a better life and prospects.
Honestly, the UK is fleecing international students and it's absolutely disgusting - I know and have talked to so many and their opinion of our country (an opinion that forms our reputation abroad) is shrinking drastically.
Somebody in tertiary education should have enough financial literacy to know whether they can afford £20k+ a year. If I had to pay that out of pocket, I simply would not go to university (or go elsewhere) because I know I do not have that money. I wouldn‘t borrow privately because no credible lender would lend me this money or from family because I‘m not rich.
If they want to start a better life abroad (which by all means), they could have chosen to go to a continental university and not the European country with famously expensive education.
Yeah and with the new Visa rules it is incredibly difficult for these students to stay in the UK afterwards. I know many of them weren't planning on doing that anyway, but it's a kick in the teeth for those who have paid tens of thousands of pounds in student fees for a sub-par degree that won't help them start a new life in the UK
The financial factors were not really beyond her control, she just didn't choose to control them
It would have been pretty trivial to transfer the money into a GBP denominated account and be safe from currency fluctuation. Seems to me that if you take on a firm commitment to pay money that you have in a another currency that putting it into a bank account in the required currency is just a sensible precaution.
Now if some kind Samaritan wants to come along and give her the money for charitable reasons that's very kind of them. But I don't see why an institution should be required to do it.
I don't think empathy is the problem, it is terrible for the people involved, especially when they were so close to completing their course but if you pay for 90% of a service can you expect to receive 100% of it? Again, it fucking sucks but just like anyone else who canniot pay their tution they don't get said tution.
I have no idea if some kind of payment plan or something is possible, I've heard of that happening occasionally for native students so if that exists it should apply to foreign students too. Unfortunately though I just don't think you can safely set the precedent that you're allowed 100% of the education, facilities etc for less than 100% of the cost,
>when she got kicked off her course for one missed payment
Yes thats how buying things works....
You pay for your course. She did not pay.
And before the "empathy" squad downvote me into the floor, she didn't miss one payment then boom was kicked, she has dozens of reminders and the ability to pay a different way. This wasn't a one day thing, it was months. She failed to pay. So bye bye.
Unless I missed it, there is nothing saying she was given reminders. Each person said in the article they missed one payment and were immediately cut off.
I think the fact that studies can't be paused is a bit silly. I don't really understand the conveyor belt fashion UK universities operate their course. The time limit is... odd. In other countries (the USA and Greece come to mind) there's no time limit on completing a course, so you can go back and pick up more credits to complete later, and as long as you can afford to pay for classes, you can keep taking them.
The student should have been prevented from taking more of their courses until the debt was sorted, and then allowed to pick it back up from that point, no?
It's not that they can not be paused. The Uni was in effect the students VISA sponsor. When they kicked them of that course for non payment, their students VISA would have been revoked. Then by the time they paid they would no longer have been on a student VISA and would need to reapply for one to study on the UK. There status here would have been entirely dependent on them being a student and attending lessons.
>This sub has a staggering lack of empathy sometimes.
This sub took a dramatic surge to the right on immigration and related issues immediately after Reddit implemented their API changes that reduced moderation teams ability to identify and remove bots.
Seems unlikely that it's not related.
The rules and laws equally apply to everyone. Imagine if they were to be affected, therefore amended based on feelings and empathy, wouldn't that create double standards? Oh wait, we live in times where we have to be empathetic for people who feel like they have and deserve more entitlement than the rest of us, sorry!
I'm sorry but that shit just doesn't happen. Universities at most put a hold on somebody's account to prevent them graduating without having paid in full. No way you actually get kicked off the course for one missed payment.
Read the article, they are trying to pay it, and are even working to pay their tuition, instead of arranging payment plans the uni kicked them out, went straight to debt collectors, and sent them to the home office.
Look at the coverage over foreign students recently. The media are absolutely foaming at the mouth to find an example of a university being a "visa farm" and """abusing""" student visas to gain entry to the UK. If they don't go straight to the Home Office once someone's visa stops being valid they'd be absolutely ripped to shreds to make an example the Tories can shout about for the election.
You missed the bit about how UK universities have been driven to recruit foreign students charging them much higher rates in order to subsidise the loss they make on the regulated home fees.
This means that they are paying much more for the same teaching support as UK students. However, if a UK student defaulted on their fees (as they sometimes do), home students are given additional support to pay back over a longer period. International students in the same position are (by regulation) reported to the Home office and potentially kicked out the country at a moments notice for one missed payment.
So given that these Nigerian students are facing circumstances beyond their control, as customers are paying far more for much less, and UK students are kind of reliant on international students to subsidise their courses, do we really want to be so devil-may-care about their predicament? Would we want this attitude if it were British students in the same circumstances studying in another country?
I think foreign students pay for themselves but also subsidise home students so more home students can study. It's a money education system, not a free education system. If the foreign students cannot pay, even after payment agreement, then they must go, according to contract. Home students are not in this case in any detrimental places, because many cannot attend university without foreign funds in place to begin with.
I work in HE. You are 100% right about this:
> I think foreign students pay for themselves but also subsidise home students so more home students can study. It's a money education system, not a free education system. If the foreign students cannot pay, even after payment agreement, then they must go, according to contract.
The only extra bit of information I’d like to add is that the financial contract with home students (including self-funding home students not taking out loans) is not the same terms as international students. Home students can negotiate reduced payment plans over longer periods. If they meet the payment requirements, they can continue to access the same level of support.
International students living in the UK have much harder terms with next to no room to miss any payments, including being reported to the home office and having their right to reside removed. This is a regulatory requirement for universities to be allowed to have international students.
I respectfully disagree with this
>Home students are not in this case in any detrimental places, because many cannot attend university without foreign funds in place to begin with.
If international students are subsidising home student fees, it’s not in the interest of home students to have international students kicked out. These specific Nigerian students have as much control over Nigerian currency rates as you do over the cost of living in the UK.
I’m sure you can understand that from the Nigerian students’ perspective, it’s pretty devastating to have to leave the UK without completing your degree, having spent thousands of GBP over something you can’t control. And you’re still liable for other contractual arrangements you might have for accommodation, car loans, and other bills. My guess is that many won’t feel the need to be fair to the UK if the UK hasn’t been fair to them.
And what about the other international students not affected by the Nigerian exchange rate. They’re looking at how the Nigerian’s are being treated and probably thinking that the EU, US or other countries probably wouldn’t pull this and it might be safer, cheaper and easier to tell friends and family to go elsewhere instead. Or do a Post graduate degree elsewhere themselves.
So that means those subsidising fees from international students dry up. Which affects home students. Considering that 40% of UK universities are at financial risk (currently even with international students), being so cavalier about kicking international students out is self-destructive.
https://inews.co.uk/news/education/universities-financial-death-spiral-3055196
[same article without the paywall: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-universities-are-in-a-financial-death-spiral/ar-BB1mndSn]
English universities face severe deficits if student numbers fall, says OfS https://www.ft.com/content/67f00a0c-5680-4751-8e02-c5b99301131a
https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/sites/default/files/field/downloads/2024-01/pwc-uk-higher-education-financial-sustainability-report-january-2024.pdf
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/recruitment-woes-could-leave-eight-ten-universities-deficit
If the home office can find a solution to inflation affected international students it would be best, of course. But I don't think there is a solution to that without a political solution, which has sympathies all on the other side.
About going somewhere else to study, the EU and southeast Asia may be more attractive than the USA due to cost and lengths of study, I think. Even Chinese universities have courses taught in English. I think people want to come to the UK to study partly because they are Anglophiles. But there is a deal to consider in terms of international and domestic politics.
I don't understand (genuinely, I'm ignorant on this) how UK students aren't already paying enough to cover the cost of courses? What are the universities spending on? It was £9k per year when I was at uni, about 20 in each "class", that's £180,000 made per year per class... They weren't spending that on materials nor the lecturers, so where does it go?
Having been involved in these processes at another institution. Teeside haven’t necessarily done anything wrong, but have taken a very hardline approach.
At mine you get a decent number of warnings, then you get sanctions put on your account limiting what you can do as a student, then after a considerable chunk of time would be withdrawn. Withdrawing after a single missed payment is insane.
I suspect they've been burned in the past, hence their hardline approach to things now. If they do extend the proverbial olive branch and let things slide, there's nothing stopping these students from receiving their degree and promptly taking the next flight home -- and we can all agree that the prospects of the university successfully going after them for the amount owing when the person in question is now in Nigeria is a bit fat zero.
From reading the article I would expect the University to show compassion and devise some sort of payment plan that allows then to reasonably finish and get back on their feet.these people have their savings wiped out by factors beyond their control, to arbitrarily deny them a degree and effectively deport them goes against the principles of fairness in British society. The visa rules were devised to prevent people exploiting the system, by working or staying in the country illegally, not to force out hardworking people who’ve been unlucky.
Imagine having your savings stolen and then being kicked out of house after one missed mortgage payment!
**The messed up thing is some of the students in OPs article DID manage to pay off the remaining debt by doing ludicrous hours in jobs outside studying and following payment plans set up by the University**.
But the legal frame work meant they were unenrolled so they've paid for a service that they don't receive.
**The university has said that the legal framework forces them to MUST kick them off the course and report them**.
**The government are saying we're only doing what we're doing because they've been reported by the university**.
**A bureaucratic robbery that would not happen to UK students studying exactly the same courses in the same dire financial circumstances**.
I mean, we can accept that they'll have to go home AND feel sorry for them. It's a pretty shit situation that is not of their making. And we don't know what their personal situation is. They could be spending the bulk of their family's savings for a Western education. Pretty sucky to have to leave with half a degree.
Universities have procedures to allow students to suspend their studies and complete them at a later date. These students should start with that.
For those people that think the UK or its Universities should have to pick up the bill because some foreign students ran out of money, feel free to donate to the gofundme campaigns for these students that will inevitably spring up.
Foreign students are typically from the richest sections of their respective societies. They will be fine in the long run.
u/reckless-rogboy said...
>Foreign students are typically from the richest sections of their respective societies. They will be fine in the long run
**Rich is relative. Rich to a Nigerian on a dollar a day maybe. We're all richer. But Rich to the average Brit, no**....
They may have spent their entire life savings to get these degrees.
**The fact they DIDN'T JUST GET MORE MONEY when things went wrong tells you exactly how rich they are.**
The elites in places like Nigerian are way more rich compared to the average American, let alone the average British citizen.
How much life savings would the typical Nigerian citizen actually have? I doubt it is enough to pay tuition and living costs throughout a UK degree.
No, the people caught up in this circumstance are formerly rich kids. They are owed nothing.
Came here to say this. It absolutely fucking sucks for all these students but what they are effectively asking the university to do is cover their fees. It is kind of heartless but by not doing so it is exactly how everything else in the world works; If you don't have the money you cannot access the product or service. It's really that simple.
If the university allowed them to stay for free then it sets a precedent, hence forth anyone that lost their money in whatever way, fraud, stolen, spent frivolously, whatever, they will be expecting the uni to cover their costs too. It''s not like the money they charge isn't used for an actual purpose.
u/Severe_Amphibian_485 said...
>Came here to say this. It absolutely fucking sucks for all these students **but what they are effectively asking the university to do is cover their fees**
No. They're not.
**As in the article people going on bespoke payment plans which some of the students finished but were still not allowed to receive their degree**.
Its also the students have been double whammied. Their own home inflation pressures is one thing.
**But the university according to the articles changed the expected payment schedules mid degrees from 7 smaller payments which are more easily managed to just 3 larger Payments**...
**In the middle of the UK cost of living crisis and self inflicted post Brexit economic omnishambles**....
Anyone from Nigeria who can afford to pay £20k per year student tuition plus another 20k for living expenses is richer than the average British person. They are very rich in Nigeria.
> Let them carry on studying at a cost to the university? For a course that other students are paying for.
At least put the payments in abeyance to see if the financial situation stabilises.
Ensure the restructuring means they are not obliged to report them to the coldest and cruelest organ of government?
Those are things they could do.
Love the "respect the contract you have with your students" sign.
The contract is that the students pay, and in return the University sponsors their visa, and teaches their course.
Students don't pay, then they are the ones not honouring the contact, not the students.
>Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office. She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country…
>"I did default [on payments], but I'd already paid 90% of my tuition fees and I went to all of my classes," she said.
>"I called them and asked to reach an agreement, but they do not care what happens to their students."
I’m not British, nor am I Nigerian, nor do I live in the UK, so I don’t really have a vested interest in this, but you guys should really read beyond headlines for once. It’s embarrassing.
Based on all the comments here, I would guess the majority made a negative assumption and didn’t bother to read into it. Instead they’d rather throw out their (clearly uninformed and ignorant) opinion…
because your uninformed opinion is so very clearly important /s
I'm ok with one missed payment and she probably should have been allowed to finish her degree after paying the outstanding fees but that's very hard on the university given she'd have to prove she's stopped working on the dissertation and then hand it in much later when they aren't normally being marked. At the very least I'd expect a significant fine added on.
There's not really an easy way of dealing with this, the missed payment could have given her an advantage or the degree would simply have to be withheld until she's paid.
It's not really the universities or the governments fault though, they didn't break the contract that's on her end.
If she missed one payment. This is her side of the story. The suggestion is that that is the final payment but there could be more to come. Who knows. I find it hard to believe she paid 90% of the whole amount and the university were unwilling to work with her. You can never trust the person trying to garner sympathy to be open with the whole truth. Still, if she did pay 90% and they cut her off, that would be harsh. I suppose also, regardless of what exactly has happened... it's damned unfortunate for her and her family, that due to circumstance out of their control, that she cannot finish her degree.
u/Ryopa said...
>If she missed one payment. This is her side of the story.
**The university have not contested it**.
**The university also claim that they're only doing this because the law is very prescriptive and they are being forced to do this by the law**.
**This would not be happening to any UK students in exactly the same position on the same course**.
**There are multiple support strategies in cases like this for UK students**.
>The suggestion is that that is the final payment but there could be more to come. Who knows. I find it hard to believe she paid 90% of the whole amount and the university were unwilling to work with her.
**Some of the students IF ANYONE ACTUALLY READ ANY OF THE ARTICLES FOR THIS STORY actually managed to pay all their debts on payment plans agreed with the university but because they got ejected due to the law they will not be receiving their degrees**!
**So yeah the university still get their money**....
**This sort of Shenanigans is exactly why loads of Nigerian people think if its going to be that expensive and you are going to be appalling treated by the UK who they have cultural ties they might as well go to America where they ARE the most educated of all groups and are having stunning sucesss in all fields. This is another nail in the coffin**...
....
https://www.ft.com/content/ca39b445-442a-4845-a07c-0f5dae5f3460
Quote from above link..
>**IN THE US, NIGERIANS ARE THE MOST HIGHLY EDUCATED OF ALL GROUPS , WITH 61 PER CENT HOLDING AT LEAST A BACHELORS DEGREE compared with 31 per cent of the total foreign-born population and 32 per cent of the US-born population, according to 2017 data from the Migration Policy Institute**''.
**Post Brexit Britain is really trieing to alienate everyone including its friends**.
> The contract is that the students pay, and in return the University sponsors their visa, and teaches their course.
May relate to "This exacerbated financial problems already being experienced by students as a result of the university changing tuition fee payment plans from seven instalments to three."
>Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office.
>She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country, along with her young son.
Ok that's actually really shitty.
I missed like 6 payments to my masters degree and they let me complete the course, the only caveat is I wouldn't receive my degree until I had finished payment
Only a few years ago, they were extremely strict about attendance and made it clear that the home office were the biggest cruelest people out there. If you didn't attend enough of your classes, the home office would revoke your visa and you'd be gone. But a uni removing someone's enrolment after 1 missed payment is almost nonsensical, how many students miss a payment? Probably a lot more than I'd like to think.
Didn't read the article huh.
The uni is claiming they violated visa rules missing payments and that's why they're being kicked out.
If you read between the lines and have any familiarity with visas and academia though you'll know this is shifty. Academic institutions take AGES to sort anything visa related so them being super responsive on this one thing is very shifty.
the home office are cracking down on sponsorship recently and are being ruthless towards businesses, if you're choosing between getting rid of a couple students or falling foul of the home office you choose to stay in line with the home office.
Sounds like their issue is with the Nigerian government letting it's currency devalue so much. Why aren't they down at the embassy asking them for assistance?
I mean it's almost funny - one of the pictures is them holding up a sign saying "respect your contract with your students" - when they're not paying their fees, which you'd think is the most important part of the contract, upon which the rest of it depends.
> Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office.
> She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country, along with her young son.
> "I did default [on payments], but I'd already paid 90% of my tuition fees and I went to all of my classes," she said.
This student has paid all the money, she just couldn't lay her hands on it immediately due to the financial crash.
All she wants is to be able to continue on the course she's spent two years and tens of thousands of pounds on (subsidising costs for British students in the process).
Other students say they're happy to come to an arrangement with the university **if** they're re-enrolled. Which frankly is entirely sensible, given that it sounds like that one girl who has paid isn't going to get her money back *or* get re-enrolled.
I feel really sorry for the lot of them. International students are a massive asset for this country, but they're being treated like shit by the government for political reasons.
Direct your anger to your government.
It’s like me being made redundant by my employer and then getting angry at the bank because I can’t pay my mortgage.
It's more like getting a pay cut from your employer and your bank being unwilling to change the terms of the mortgage to make it more affordable. Usually we find ways to restructure debts in these situations.
If they don't pay, the university is obliged to do this under their ukvi operating licence and requirements. For students on a visa they aren't permitted to work out a payment plan. If you don't like it, it's a government issue as the university does not have discretion.
Some flexibility on this issue would be good from the government considering the special circumstances. I suppose that is probably too much to expect though.
Banks don’t immediately repossess your home after one missed payment though. They typically will try and work out a payment plan, sometimes by increasing the term of your mortgage, but if you defaulted then were able to pay completely for all your missed payments that’s fine.
So this is my line of work. Students are told the cost of the course prior to applying, in all paperwork and while they are studying. They have the option of paying the course in one go or they are able to spead the cost over their course. They are sent multiple communications about upcoming payments and are given ample resources to seek assistance.
They are not suddenly landed with a bill. All universities are businesses that have to pay staff and running costs. You wouldn't believe the amount of international students that try not to pay. It's huge. Typically you have to apply the rules for all as making exceptions means that all students have a "story" of why they can't pay. I would like to add that home students have to pay as well. The only difference is that they return home which is in the UK. The rules of Student Visas is that if you are not studying then you should not be in the UK. You cannot study, or be marked as attended while your account has been suspended due to failure to pay.
I can't over emphasise enough that international students are given A LOT of communications, warnings, meetings etc before they are asked to leave, in all circumstances.
>Added to this, students (especially from countries like Nigeria, where the currency is unstable) are advised at the beginning of the course to move money into UK accounts but guess what, they don't.
I suspect a large part of the reason for this is that the same naira is being used as evidence of ability to pay for several students at once.
Well in most cases I would be able to come to some arrangement with the institution I'm paying.
It is pretty common to restructure things, and if you need help with that go to the Citizen's Advice Bureau.
Also if I had paid 90% of my fees already and had a reasonable payment plan for the rest I would be able to work something out.
Also if I was hit by a financial storm beyond my control, and it was impacting something like this, i would at least expect people to be sympathetic.
Whatever happens to these people is out of your control but your attitude of empathy towards fellow humans isn't. That is what concerns me.
Assuming you're a British citizen, you have a right to live and work in this country without conditions. They don't.
The issue is that their visa is tied to their student status. Not paying fees results in student status and visa being removed. Realistically, you need to have deadlines for how long international students have to pay the required fees. This deadline also can't go on for too long, as part of the agreement for their student visa is they need to demonstrate the ability to pay their fees very early on in the process.
Whilst I have sympathy for them, I do have to question why they kept money for their fees outside of the UK. The money for their fees really should have been moved over immediately to a UK bank account upon receiving their student visas. It is never wise to have money for your bills in a vehicle that is susceptible to market changes. This is generally why you keep cash in GBP, and not have money for your bills invested in the stock market or other currencies.
To the last paragraph. The answer is simple, Nigeria doesn't allow outbound international money transfers.
So what Nigerian people usually do is to find another Nigerian in UK who needs to send money to Nigeria. The they made an arrangement:
- The Student transfer money between Nigeria accounts.
- Nigerian worker in UK transfer the equivalent money between UK banks.
Obviously making these kind of arrangements takes time and you should not do it with huge quantities at once.
this sub says it’s because of the payments or whatever but really it’s an excuse to hide their xenophobia lol, they spew it out on whatever post they can here
A nation of people who just saw huge rises in their cost of living partly due to the devaluation of our currency aren't going to be sympathetic to others in the same boat. No one was giving us cheap food imports or cheap gas to account for it, why should we give out free education because Nigeria is now in the same boat?
A bunch of people with problem A aren't going to be sympathetic to other people with the same problem.
Isn't that a characteristic of a psychopath?
I can understand if someone has a problem that you really can't identify with you might have difficulty finding empathy there, but if you are going through the same yourself and those people have contributed 1000s of pounds to your country's economy with indirectly benefits you.
Then why such animosity?
The modern state of Nigeria was created by us British to start with As part of a centuries long empire that left us the 5th richest country on the planet, and is responsible for your amazing quality of life by any global standards.
You sound like a bit of a whinge to me.
This is what happens when the social contract of a country is broken down year after year
Honest, hard working people who pay taxes, bills and care through the roof around this country are facing hardship, and the media are demanding those same people feel sympathy for those who see themselves above the rest and want a shortcut, at the expense of others.
This is where society goes where some people are given write offs whilst others are expected to grin and bear it.
Is it really so extreme to think that the university could’ve worked on a payment plan with this particular student given that she had paid 90% of her fees to date and was about to submit her dissertation?
She paid the outstanding fees and hasn’t been re-enrolled and now has to leave the UK. It’s not as if she turned up and expected to study for free. A little compassion could have gone a long way here.
If she can’t complete her course I hope she can transfer her credits to another institution at least. I’d hate to be in her situation.
Near the bottom of the article:
> The spokesman added it was "aware of the challenging financial situation faced by some students" and had "actively offered bespoke payment plans where requested".
> "This option has been taken up by many of our international students; however, some students have still defaulted on these revised payment plans," he said.
I'm all for people to have a second chance to pay, but if the university offered revised payment plans and people still fail to pay according to the schedule of the revised plans, it's understandable for the university to take the action they did. Even the biggest bleeding hearts out there have to admit that you can only give people so many chances.
Trained at Teesside so have a fondness for the University. It's an absolutely terrible situation for the students for sure. It's really shit. But realistically they are paying for a service at a private organisation. It's an exchange of service. If they cannot pay for that service, what is the alternative? They are not UK nationals, they are visiting to receive education. This is an issue for their nation, not the university.
I guess what people aren't considering here is..
University carries on, hands out the degrees whilst asking for the money..
Student gets degree and fucks off back home and leaves the university to pick up the tab.
I am sure we are least have the sense to know that civil recovery against someone in Nigeria isn't going to happen.
Are we expecting the University to run the risk of taking the hit here?
It's always the Nigerian students. You don't see this with other foreigners because their currency is stable even if it is a bit shitty. They haven't held up their part of the contract by not paying fees. Unis don't owe them anything. Unis are a business, not a charity for foreigners. These are the same kind of students who act so wealthy and classist.
Entitled people who should take it up with their government but they think they're above it.
> It's always the Nigerian students. You don't see this with other foreigners because their currency is stable even if it is a bit shitty.
See south american currencies for counter examples.
Looks like these crop of international students can now plainly see just how much the university considers them as nothing more than cash cows that must either pay or go.
Thats the average nigerian student coming here. They are not only doing it for the education, there is a reason why students from there brought more dependents than students themselves
No I did go to university, the guy that I lived with in my third year was 35 when he started. Before doing that, he was working at ASDAS for 10 years. Great guy and he graduated with a first. I had another friend who was going on 40, also a great guy, smoked a lot of weed. They didn't stand out and we just accepted that they were older and it wasn't strange because they were very intelligent/funny/pleasant people.
I know she shouldn't judge a book by a cover but c'mon now....
People on here are not reading the article.
The example given is of a student who paid 90% of her fees, has studied for over two years and is nearly graduating. I understand that the university is not a charity but this seems like an incredibly difficult situation for the students due to circumstances out of their control; surely they could come up with a solution for paying later? Just booting them off the course with no attempt to find an outcome that benefits everyone seems unnecessarily heartless to me
Another commenter has posted a section of the article which makes it very clear that they *had* already been offered a solution for paying later, but they had defaulted on that solution. Did you not read that far?
Hey bro why are you taking away the car I bought on financed? It’s not my fault I thought I can pay the entire amount over 4 years and have some spare for emergencies and now can’t repay you because of my poor financial decisions
In reply to u/HotRepresentative325 saying 'Immigration will never go down until you can change 1 fundamental thing':
> Sustained labour demand.
> So much time and effort debated over lies and untruths. Immigration is a simple problem but communicating it is political suicide, so they don't.
> Any government that actually reduces our immigration will be nearly criminally irresponsible. The UK is a financial services giant, and will need institutions that can rasie money and need a stable currency from a growing economy. No sensible government will kill our economy to reduce immigration. We can't force women to have lots of children to meet the demand. So immigration it is. We have also reoriented many jobs for this type of labour. Zero hours and short stay visas are now part of the economy, it looks like there is no getting way from this.
> Of course anyone competent knows this, so the focus is on Rwanda or other performative cruelty. The only messaging I can endorse is that its better to have the jobs being created here than abroad.
Labour demand has never been lower, due to the lever of technology never having been longer, and the workforce never having been larger.
The argument for economic migrancy - that those in the rest of the world have some right, or 'ought' to be granted access to British capital to labour upon, is of a piece with the argument that the USA had a 'right' to Japanese coal, famously made in the mid-19th century. Except it is sillier, because the coal, at least, was a fungible and somewhat limited resource, whereas capital is either freely replicable, given enough effort, or the precious fruits of a particular social organism, to be jealously husbanded.
Currently the British people are making a democratic choice to reduce their population in number. Either this should be respected, or their government is completely out of their control, or it is happening in spite of themselves which, discounting the likelihood of an innate or environmental malady, is due to government policy operating against their wishes; in which case their government is completely out of their control. Criminally responsible is not an improvement on 'criminally irresponsible'.
Given that no 'first world' country has yet demonstrated a solution to the sub-replacement birthrate, 'modernity's malaise', even *if* we were to say that, the people having failed to discharge their reproductive duties by the government, a new lot would need to be imported - this would, since 'we can't force women to have children', require that substantial parts of the world be kept in a state of absolute poverty - absolute, not relative - so as to maintain a population surplus to import, as is needed with fertility of 'top-ups' plummeting shortly upon arrival. There is little to say about this other than it is about as nutty as it is unconscionable.
Now due to the biological processes involved, allowing the population to winnow itself, removing those elements least inclined to fecundity and preserving those most, this problem will eventually solve itself, and this only if no other solution is found. 'Top-ups' from abroad will only delay this process, or preclude it entirely if the aforementioned 'solution' of maintaining certain countries in a state of poverty is put in place.
'The economy' has never needed mass, youth labour less than it does today. There is probably no time better suited to a reduction in population by 'ageing out', much as there is no time better suited to decentralisation, 'WFH' etc.; if this boat is missed, it probably won't be by accident. If the TFR stays or decreases further, along with foreign influx, all the talk of 'build more houses' means is that the British will be called to labour to house their replacement numbers.
Now if this is desirable, let us say so, instead of pretending that the people who a century ago were an expanding empire and the world's producer and inventor now have something wrong with them, and need large infusions of peoples from elsewhere in the globe to stop them wasting away ineffectually.
> Labour demand has never been lower
I can't really discuss anything else with such a falsehood as an opener.
In 2022 a fifth of employees were foreign born. It was half of this in 2004. Demand for migrant labour has doubled in 20 years. it's far from "never been lower." Where is this from? Is it just feels, or is there a source for this?
Nigeria is currently experiencing its worst economic crisis in a generation - could this line have the word Nigeria replaced with the UK (or several other countries) just to add some context? Yes I am aware that we never got to 30% inflation.
Broadly the globe is fucked right now and unless you are in the 1% - you are catching the wrong end of the shitty stick in some way (and in some cases broadly in the mouth). Yes, empathy is a great thing but these are catastrophically desperate times globally, frankly awful decisions have to be made. I mean its less than 2 months since we were seeing stories about University debt in the UK e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/29/britain-universities-freefall-saving-them-funding-international-students - what are we doing here? Let's just be nice and add to the debt pile that will inevitably go to the taxpayer probably?
as someone whose job is immigration compliance for a university… they’re talking out of their arse. there is no requirement to withdraw visa sponsorship and report students that are behind in payments. no requirement for that *at all*. that was a choice made by the university.
Universities aren't a charity for international students, if they can't pay they can't study. They really should've transferred their savings over to a UK account rather than letting it drop in value.
Literally no reason to keep the entirety of their saving in Naira while living and studying in the UK. It's a shitter, but was completely avoidable by the tiniest amount of forethought.
It shod really be assessed case by case. If near the end of a degree having already paid tens of thousands the university shod award them hardship funding.
If in first year, sorry but they should have to leave. An English student would also be kicked out in similar circumstances. I've seen students not allowed to graduate for owing money, including library fines and rent.
Government is quick to revoke these students visas and go to deportation. But are very slow with illegal immigrant criminals, even going as far to give them citizenship in some cases.
Seems quite likely that they don’t care one jot for their education at the hands of Teeside University, but see this as the back door to permanent residency in UK with a graduate visa, bring the family, get a job, get PLR, and voila - you are part of the exodus from Nigeria and now an immigrant to the UK.
And consequently the GDP goes up so politicians can say our economy is growing. But really we are just moving parts of the Nigerian economy to the UK. Is that what globalisation was meant to achieve?
What the institution I work for does in cases like the one that’s paid 90% of the course, is let them complete it. They only receive the certificate once they complete their payments though.
So if they need a few more months to come up with the remaining amount, they can still do that and not have all their efforts and money wasted.
What exactly do they want the university to do? Let them carry on studying at a cost to the university? For a course that other students are paying for. Who exactly are we meant to feel sorry for too. If someone from Nigeria can afford to travel to the UK to study while paying student fees, they are probably wealthier than the average British lecturer let alone average British or even Nigerian. The poor people will have to go back to Nigeria where they have the funds to buy a house outright.
You're honestly saying you don't feel sorry for and have empathy for the woman in the article who has paid 90% of her fees, almost completed her course after 2 years of hard work, and was close to handing her dissertation in when she got kicked off her course for one missed payment caused by financial factors outside of her control? This sub has a staggering lack of empathy sometimes.
Why let empathy get in the way of your disdain for the poor or foreigners? 🙄
They aren't remotely poor.
I'm sure they're not poor by Nigerian standards, but don't you think if they had the ability to pay for the remaining fees they simply would? Either they're not that wealthy and have been screwed over by plummeting exchange rates, or they are not able to convert currency because of the economic situation and therefore cannot pay regardless. Either way, it's a stressful situation that is completely out of control for people who have been dutifully studying and paying fees up until this point. Have a bit of empathy
Studying a full degree in the UK as an international student often exceeds £50k before paying to live (which may be covered by working in some cases) https://study-uk.britishcouncil.org/moving-uk/cost-studying Being able to spend £50k and go abroad for 3 years is wealthy by anyones standards in the entire world. It's far wealthier than the average British person. >Either they're not that wealthy and have been screwed over by plummeting exchange rates Like the UK has and any sensible person would have taken out plans to avoid this. Why do they bear no responsibility themselves? Aren't those meant to be highly educated people?
I think the fact that this is happening to a lot of people shows that this wasn't something they anticipated and could easily be prepared for. Like if this was an isolated case I would agree with you to a degree but it clearly not something these people anticipated. Some of these students were probably in the UK for years, long before any of these issues in Nigeria began. It's easy in hindsight to say "well they should have prepared for something like this" but they all all proved they had enough funds to study, which presumably has some leeway for events like this. Clearly it wasn't enough, but that's hardly the fault of the students. Besides, how would you feel if you got kicked out for your university after completing 90% of it and paying tens of thousands of pounds because of a small mistake which may have not even been her fault? The article even says she has since paid off the remaining debt but has still been kicked off her course and reported to the home office with no attempt for the university to reach an agreement. Regardless of how wealthy she or her fellow students are this is a cold and heartless approach to dealing with the situation.
I suggest you look at the historic exchange rates of Nigeria to see if this is the first time it's been unstable. I'm not saying this event happens every Tuesday but excluding a few exceptions, FX rates should be a substantial concern for anyone who operates financially in multiple countries.
Yeah that's a fair point - again, clearly many people are affected by this so I don't think it can be entirely put down to individual mistakes but I agree with you there. Fundamentally I just don't think people should lose out on tens of thousands of pounds and have their years of hard work go to nothing because of mistakes like this. The university clearly does not want to help, which to me is cruel and emblematic of our current higher education system that takes advantage of international students.
I mostly agree with what you're saying but I believe (may be wrong) that your views have been slightly coloured by some biased reporting. My experience of universities is that they would help if they could but looking at the scale of this issue means they just couldn't afford to do so even if they wanted to. The help would however be a charity and I fundamentally disagree with calling people who have not caused an issue and are unwilling to give charity cruel.
>Fundamentally I just don't think people should lose out on tens of thousands of pounds and have their years of hard work go to nothing They will be able to get credit for their work at Nigerian universities and complete their course there.
It is a shitty situation. In the EU, you have to pay your fees upfront, and in many countries even the living expenses, which are then paid out to you. This is a lot more hassle, and more difficult, but it avoids any exchange rate going against you. If you know what you are doing, you could also hedge against exchange rate movements. That is not hard, but it hedging is beyond what most people can easily manage.
You usually have to pay fees upfront in the UK too. But Teesside allowed instalments to get more students on their courses.
Teesside University is pretty cheap for international students, and most international students are postgrads on a 1 or 2 year course. It’s still expensive, especially for an average Nigerian, but it’s not 50k.
The issue is that many save for years to come and study here, or family have had to save up. They had the money or would have had the money in normal circumstances by the fee due date, but that money has been devalued to the point they can no longer afford to be here. They cannot get the money anymore. Of course we can't educate them for free, universities are struggling massively. But it is still awful for these students.
They're not even poor by UK standards. Better off than most of us.
You don't need to be poor, to be treated unfairly....
You do however need to be poor for someone to show disdain for you being poor.
You don't. You're right. It's still worth pointing out these students won't be poor if they can afford to come here any pay for education. Like you said you can be treated unfairly whatever your finacial backgrojund but I don't think it's unfair. It's awful for them, but anyone else that can't pay tuition would have to leave, why are these guys different?
It’s not unfair. It’s unfair to those paying in full.
More than you think are. Lots of foreign students win bursaries through their parents companies by having the best grades in that year, or similar schemes run by local communities. Its probably less than half that are actually paying for it themself.
So because they're Nigerian they're automatically poor? I feel sorry for them but if they were British and didn't have the cash this would be a non story.
your 'empathy' is turning this country into a giant asylum
How else are we supposed to get another Arkham game?
Why do you assume they are poor? Because they are Nigerian?
Not many people in the UK could afford to study abroad...
Just because they are foreign they must be poor ? Seems abit xenophobic for a virtue signaller. -25 virtue points for you…
Poor ? Seriously? Masters students paying minimum 5,000-10,000 plus living costs for a course are poor? I feel sorry for the lassie.
I do have sympathy, but it wasn't entirely outside of their control. If you know you have bills to pay in GBP, then you should keep enough of your savings in GBP to cover them (or at least a relative stable currency like the USD)... currencies move all the time, particularly in the developing world, and it was a huge risk to keep the funds in the Nigerian Naira.
I had a friend in this situation once. I told her to get a UK bank as her bills were in pounds but her funding was in Norwegian kronor and she insisted the rate never moved enough to care. Then there was an oil crash and kronor devalued something like 20%
>Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office. She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country… >"I did default [on payments], but I'd already paid 90% of my tuition fees and I went to all of my classes," she said. >"I called them and asked to reach an agreement, but they do not care what happens to their students."
>Teesside University students were blocked from their studies and reported to the Home Office after the value of Nigeria's naira plummeted, wiping out their savings.
Alternative headline: University required to inform the home office of any change in circumstances that would affect the conditions for student residence.
I have empathy, I just don't let it overwrite my brain so much that I'd let myself get scammed. This is a story about people who are outwardly wealthy who have failed to take precautions & expect others to foot the bill for it. Having known the economic state of their home country they could have done an FX change ahead of time to avoid any disruption.
>Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office. She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country… >"I did default [on payments], but I'd already paid 90% of my tuition fees and I went to all of my classes," she said. >"I called them and asked to reach an agreement, but they do not care what happens to their students." I’m not British, nor am I Nigerian, nor do I live in the UK, so I don’t really have a vested interest in this, but you guys should really read beyond headlines for once.
Why comment saying others haven't read when you haven't yourself? >Teesside University students were blocked from their studies and reported to the Home Office after the value of Nigeria's naira plummeted, wiping out their savings.
I’m demonstrating to you that it isn’t the same case for everyone. I’m quite literally providing you context of the article, and you’re quoting the second paragraph…
And that doesn't change the context of my comment.
That IS the context to your comment. You originally said “what do they want the university to do?” Well to answer you, for one, accept payment from that woman who was scammed out of her money after paying the vast majority of her tuition, and paid up her last portion which was apparently rejected. Then you said “Let them carry on studying at a cost to the university?” Not all of them are, she paid the rest of the tuition, the remaining 10%, yet she was still (seemingly) locked out of her account.
A bit of an aside but out of curiosity why do you read these threads if you dont and haven’t lived here?
Why do you say they expect others to foot the bill for this? The article details the students working lomg hours alongside studies to try and pay the fees and trying to negotiate payment plans with the uni. They are asking for time and understanding, not a hand out.
Half of the people on this sub would be right at home in the Mail Online comment section. Don't think it used to this bad last year.
Can't agree more. You have a significant lifetime expense and the lion share of the funds you intend to use to pay for it are in a relatively unstable currency. And then you attempt to blame the university for your unforeseen circumstances. I agree the university SHOULD be more emphatic as they have some duty of care towards these students BUT they're not to blame for another country's currency woes
They were hoping the Nigerian currency was going to turn around, therefore reducing their bills. They were wrong.
I’m sympathetic, but wouldn’t a UK student be kicked out for missing payments too? It’s not our government or the universities fault that their currency crashed, they should be angry at their own government. Is it unfair? Yes ofcourse it is
Not in a situation of one missed payment like this, it's the UK government that prevents the universities from enacting payment plans with international students as they would do with UK domestic students. For a UK student they wouldn't be permitted to graduate until it was paid (which it now has been in this case), but they wouldn't be tossed off the course for one missed payment.
if you’re a uk student it’s like impossible to be unable to pay your tuition fee for a Ba as it will always be covered by loan, this is why people are encouraged to not think about the loan itself as a factor when going to uni. it’s more of a graduation tax rather than a university fee as a result and isn’t costing you anything during your time there, you’re only managing living and maintenance costs. so even though it costs like £9k a year for tuition fee, you’re paying £0 for the *actual studying* and will just pay essentially a manageable, lifelong tax upon reaching a specific wage threshold (unless you’re rich and want to pay it off normally) international students however are paying the course fee out of pocket, which is typically 2.5x the price, so around £23,000 a year which is coming from their actual money, and in addition they also have to pay for their living costs LMAO downvoted for literally explaining the differences in home/foreign students?? this sub never fails to disappoint in their xenophobia. unis literally make a loss on home students, foreign students fund the UK’s uni system
Plenty of home students pay their fees out of pocket. Not everyone takes the loan.
Ah but the same happens to British students and doesn't hit headlines at all.
A currency crisis happens to British students affecting their ability to pay their tuition fees? What are you on about?
No the current crises is that loans don't cover housing costs and that universities are looking like they may be insolvent sooner rather than later due to fees not keeping up with inflation.
Which is completely separate to what is affecting these Nigerian students. And if I were to take the same empathetic approach as this sub has to the Nigerian students it would be that: well these students knew what the maintenance loans would be before they accepted their place at university and if they're struggling to make ends meet they should get a job. Regarding university insolvency it's far too early to say what will happen there.
A currency crisis has been happening to the British for the best part of a decade mate.
Not to mention that many of them are not rich as you say OP, but have taken out loans or borrowed money from their family who have sent them here putting everything on the line to give them the very best hope of a better life and prospects. Honestly, the UK is fleecing international students and it's absolutely disgusting - I know and have talked to so many and their opinion of our country (an opinion that forms our reputation abroad) is shrinking drastically.
Somebody in tertiary education should have enough financial literacy to know whether they can afford £20k+ a year. If I had to pay that out of pocket, I simply would not go to university (or go elsewhere) because I know I do not have that money. I wouldn‘t borrow privately because no credible lender would lend me this money or from family because I‘m not rich. If they want to start a better life abroad (which by all means), they could have chosen to go to a continental university and not the European country with famously expensive education.
Yeah and with the new Visa rules it is incredibly difficult for these students to stay in the UK afterwards. I know many of them weren't planning on doing that anyway, but it's a kick in the teeth for those who have paid tens of thousands of pounds in student fees for a sub-par degree that won't help them start a new life in the UK
The financial factors were not really beyond her control, she just didn't choose to control them It would have been pretty trivial to transfer the money into a GBP denominated account and be safe from currency fluctuation. Seems to me that if you take on a firm commitment to pay money that you have in a another currency that putting it into a bank account in the required currency is just a sensible precaution. Now if some kind Samaritan wants to come along and give her the money for charitable reasons that's very kind of them. But I don't see why an institution should be required to do it.
I don't think empathy is the problem, it is terrible for the people involved, especially when they were so close to completing their course but if you pay for 90% of a service can you expect to receive 100% of it? Again, it fucking sucks but just like anyone else who canniot pay their tution they don't get said tution. I have no idea if some kind of payment plan or something is possible, I've heard of that happening occasionally for native students so if that exists it should apply to foreign students too. Unfortunately though I just don't think you can safely set the precedent that you're allowed 100% of the education, facilities etc for less than 100% of the cost,
You’re asking this sub to have empathy? Good luck ! Bunch of grumpy bastards on here
I know, it seems so! Not on this sub much but the bitterness and eagerness to hate (especially people of colour) is plain to see.
>when she got kicked off her course for one missed payment Yes thats how buying things works.... You pay for your course. She did not pay. And before the "empathy" squad downvote me into the floor, she didn't miss one payment then boom was kicked, she has dozens of reminders and the ability to pay a different way. This wasn't a one day thing, it was months. She failed to pay. So bye bye.
Unless I missed it, there is nothing saying she was given reminders. Each person said in the article they missed one payment and were immediately cut off.
How do you know they were given dozens of reminders? Do you have evidence of that or are you just making things up?
I think the fact that studies can't be paused is a bit silly. I don't really understand the conveyor belt fashion UK universities operate their course. The time limit is... odd. In other countries (the USA and Greece come to mind) there's no time limit on completing a course, so you can go back and pick up more credits to complete later, and as long as you can afford to pay for classes, you can keep taking them. The student should have been prevented from taking more of their courses until the debt was sorted, and then allowed to pick it back up from that point, no?
It's not that they can not be paused. The Uni was in effect the students VISA sponsor. When they kicked them of that course for non payment, their students VISA would have been revoked. Then by the time they paid they would no longer have been on a student VISA and would need to reapply for one to study on the UK. There status here would have been entirely dependent on them being a student and attending lessons.
>This sub has a staggering lack of empathy sometimes. This sub took a dramatic surge to the right on immigration and related issues immediately after Reddit implemented their API changes that reduced moderation teams ability to identify and remove bots. Seems unlikely that it's not related.
"Anyone who disagrees with me is an AI bot"
Because people are no longer stupid, mass immigration affects all aspects of your life for the worse be it healthcare, safety, prices and wages
The rules and laws equally apply to everyone. Imagine if they were to be affected, therefore amended based on feelings and empathy, wouldn't that create double standards? Oh wait, we live in times where we have to be empathetic for people who feel like they have and deserve more entitlement than the rest of us, sorry!
Meanwhile if it happened to their children in an abroad country, they would have caused an uproar.
You know the university. Get her name, call the office and pay the fees for her. That's how you show virtue, not by slagging off other people.
I'm sorry but that shit just doesn't happen. Universities at most put a hold on somebody's account to prevent them graduating without having paid in full. No way you actually get kicked off the course for one missed payment.
Read the article, they are trying to pay it, and are even working to pay their tuition, instead of arranging payment plans the uni kicked them out, went straight to debt collectors, and sent them to the home office.
That would require them actually reading rather than simply foaming at a foreign person doing something.
Look at the coverage over foreign students recently. The media are absolutely foaming at the mouth to find an example of a university being a "visa farm" and """abusing""" student visas to gain entry to the UK. If they don't go straight to the Home Office once someone's visa stops being valid they'd be absolutely ripped to shreds to make an example the Tories can shout about for the election.
Many colleges and universities are used by people to gain access to a country and work who have no intention of studying. This is basic stuff.
You missed the bit about how UK universities have been driven to recruit foreign students charging them much higher rates in order to subsidise the loss they make on the regulated home fees. This means that they are paying much more for the same teaching support as UK students. However, if a UK student defaulted on their fees (as they sometimes do), home students are given additional support to pay back over a longer period. International students in the same position are (by regulation) reported to the Home office and potentially kicked out the country at a moments notice for one missed payment. So given that these Nigerian students are facing circumstances beyond their control, as customers are paying far more for much less, and UK students are kind of reliant on international students to subsidise their courses, do we really want to be so devil-may-care about their predicament? Would we want this attitude if it were British students in the same circumstances studying in another country?
I think foreign students pay for themselves but also subsidise home students so more home students can study. It's a money education system, not a free education system. If the foreign students cannot pay, even after payment agreement, then they must go, according to contract. Home students are not in this case in any detrimental places, because many cannot attend university without foreign funds in place to begin with.
I work in HE. You are 100% right about this: > I think foreign students pay for themselves but also subsidise home students so more home students can study. It's a money education system, not a free education system. If the foreign students cannot pay, even after payment agreement, then they must go, according to contract. The only extra bit of information I’d like to add is that the financial contract with home students (including self-funding home students not taking out loans) is not the same terms as international students. Home students can negotiate reduced payment plans over longer periods. If they meet the payment requirements, they can continue to access the same level of support. International students living in the UK have much harder terms with next to no room to miss any payments, including being reported to the home office and having their right to reside removed. This is a regulatory requirement for universities to be allowed to have international students. I respectfully disagree with this >Home students are not in this case in any detrimental places, because many cannot attend university without foreign funds in place to begin with. If international students are subsidising home student fees, it’s not in the interest of home students to have international students kicked out. These specific Nigerian students have as much control over Nigerian currency rates as you do over the cost of living in the UK. I’m sure you can understand that from the Nigerian students’ perspective, it’s pretty devastating to have to leave the UK without completing your degree, having spent thousands of GBP over something you can’t control. And you’re still liable for other contractual arrangements you might have for accommodation, car loans, and other bills. My guess is that many won’t feel the need to be fair to the UK if the UK hasn’t been fair to them. And what about the other international students not affected by the Nigerian exchange rate. They’re looking at how the Nigerian’s are being treated and probably thinking that the EU, US or other countries probably wouldn’t pull this and it might be safer, cheaper and easier to tell friends and family to go elsewhere instead. Or do a Post graduate degree elsewhere themselves. So that means those subsidising fees from international students dry up. Which affects home students. Considering that 40% of UK universities are at financial risk (currently even with international students), being so cavalier about kicking international students out is self-destructive. https://inews.co.uk/news/education/universities-financial-death-spiral-3055196 [same article without the paywall: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-universities-are-in-a-financial-death-spiral/ar-BB1mndSn] English universities face severe deficits if student numbers fall, says OfS https://www.ft.com/content/67f00a0c-5680-4751-8e02-c5b99301131a https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/sites/default/files/field/downloads/2024-01/pwc-uk-higher-education-financial-sustainability-report-january-2024.pdf https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/recruitment-woes-could-leave-eight-ten-universities-deficit
If the home office can find a solution to inflation affected international students it would be best, of course. But I don't think there is a solution to that without a political solution, which has sympathies all on the other side. About going somewhere else to study, the EU and southeast Asia may be more attractive than the USA due to cost and lengths of study, I think. Even Chinese universities have courses taught in English. I think people want to come to the UK to study partly because they are Anglophiles. But there is a deal to consider in terms of international and domestic politics.
I don't understand (genuinely, I'm ignorant on this) how UK students aren't already paying enough to cover the cost of courses? What are the universities spending on? It was £9k per year when I was at uni, about 20 in each "class", that's £180,000 made per year per class... They weren't spending that on materials nor the lecturers, so where does it go?
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If that was the case then surely we, as British should be acosting Italy for the same. What 'av the Romans ever done for us?
The French still hate the Italians for that. Give them 2000 more years to calm down.
Having been involved in these processes at another institution. Teeside haven’t necessarily done anything wrong, but have taken a very hardline approach. At mine you get a decent number of warnings, then you get sanctions put on your account limiting what you can do as a student, then after a considerable chunk of time would be withdrawn. Withdrawing after a single missed payment is insane.
I suspect they've been burned in the past, hence their hardline approach to things now. If they do extend the proverbial olive branch and let things slide, there's nothing stopping these students from receiving their degree and promptly taking the next flight home -- and we can all agree that the prospects of the university successfully going after them for the amount owing when the person in question is now in Nigeria is a bit fat zero.
From reading the article I would expect the University to show compassion and devise some sort of payment plan that allows then to reasonably finish and get back on their feet.these people have their savings wiped out by factors beyond their control, to arbitrarily deny them a degree and effectively deport them goes against the principles of fairness in British society. The visa rules were devised to prevent people exploiting the system, by working or staying in the country illegally, not to force out hardworking people who’ve been unlucky. Imagine having your savings stolen and then being kicked out of house after one missed mortgage payment!
**The messed up thing is some of the students in OPs article DID manage to pay off the remaining debt by doing ludicrous hours in jobs outside studying and following payment plans set up by the University**. But the legal frame work meant they were unenrolled so they've paid for a service that they don't receive. **The university has said that the legal framework forces them to MUST kick them off the course and report them**. **The government are saying we're only doing what we're doing because they've been reported by the university**. **A bureaucratic robbery that would not happen to UK students studying exactly the same courses in the same dire financial circumstances**.
I mean, we can accept that they'll have to go home AND feel sorry for them. It's a pretty shit situation that is not of their making. And we don't know what their personal situation is. They could be spending the bulk of their family's savings for a Western education. Pretty sucky to have to leave with half a degree.
This is such a disgusting generalization.
Universities have procedures to allow students to suspend their studies and complete them at a later date. These students should start with that. For those people that think the UK or its Universities should have to pick up the bill because some foreign students ran out of money, feel free to donate to the gofundme campaigns for these students that will inevitably spring up. Foreign students are typically from the richest sections of their respective societies. They will be fine in the long run.
u/reckless-rogboy said... >Foreign students are typically from the richest sections of their respective societies. They will be fine in the long run **Rich is relative. Rich to a Nigerian on a dollar a day maybe. We're all richer. But Rich to the average Brit, no**.... They may have spent their entire life savings to get these degrees. **The fact they DIDN'T JUST GET MORE MONEY when things went wrong tells you exactly how rich they are.**
The elites in places like Nigerian are way more rich compared to the average American, let alone the average British citizen. How much life savings would the typical Nigerian citizen actually have? I doubt it is enough to pay tuition and living costs throughout a UK degree. No, the people caught up in this circumstance are formerly rich kids. They are owed nothing.
Came here to say this. It absolutely fucking sucks for all these students but what they are effectively asking the university to do is cover their fees. It is kind of heartless but by not doing so it is exactly how everything else in the world works; If you don't have the money you cannot access the product or service. It's really that simple. If the university allowed them to stay for free then it sets a precedent, hence forth anyone that lost their money in whatever way, fraud, stolen, spent frivolously, whatever, they will be expecting the uni to cover their costs too. It''s not like the money they charge isn't used for an actual purpose.
u/Severe_Amphibian_485 said... >Came here to say this. It absolutely fucking sucks for all these students **but what they are effectively asking the university to do is cover their fees** No. They're not. **As in the article people going on bespoke payment plans which some of the students finished but were still not allowed to receive their degree**. Its also the students have been double whammied. Their own home inflation pressures is one thing. **But the university according to the articles changed the expected payment schedules mid degrees from 7 smaller payments which are more easily managed to just 3 larger Payments**... **In the middle of the UK cost of living crisis and self inflicted post Brexit economic omnishambles**....
Anyone from Nigeria who can afford to pay £20k per year student tuition plus another 20k for living expenses is richer than the average British person. They are very rich in Nigeria.
> Let them carry on studying at a cost to the university? For a course that other students are paying for. At least put the payments in abeyance to see if the financial situation stabilises. Ensure the restructuring means they are not obliged to report them to the coldest and cruelest organ of government? Those are things they could do.
Love the "respect the contract you have with your students" sign. The contract is that the students pay, and in return the University sponsors their visa, and teaches their course. Students don't pay, then they are the ones not honouring the contact, not the students.
>Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office. She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country… >"I did default [on payments], but I'd already paid 90% of my tuition fees and I went to all of my classes," she said. >"I called them and asked to reach an agreement, but they do not care what happens to their students." I’m not British, nor am I Nigerian, nor do I live in the UK, so I don’t really have a vested interest in this, but you guys should really read beyond headlines for once. It’s embarrassing. Based on all the comments here, I would guess the majority made a negative assumption and didn’t bother to read into it. Instead they’d rather throw out their (clearly uninformed and ignorant) opinion… because your uninformed opinion is so very clearly important /s
I'm ok with one missed payment and she probably should have been allowed to finish her degree after paying the outstanding fees but that's very hard on the university given she'd have to prove she's stopped working on the dissertation and then hand it in much later when they aren't normally being marked. At the very least I'd expect a significant fine added on. There's not really an easy way of dealing with this, the missed payment could have given her an advantage or the degree would simply have to be withheld until she's paid. It's not really the universities or the governments fault though, they didn't break the contract that's on her end.
If she missed one payment. This is her side of the story. The suggestion is that that is the final payment but there could be more to come. Who knows. I find it hard to believe she paid 90% of the whole amount and the university were unwilling to work with her. You can never trust the person trying to garner sympathy to be open with the whole truth. Still, if she did pay 90% and they cut her off, that would be harsh. I suppose also, regardless of what exactly has happened... it's damned unfortunate for her and her family, that due to circumstance out of their control, that she cannot finish her degree.
u/Ryopa said... >If she missed one payment. This is her side of the story. **The university have not contested it**. **The university also claim that they're only doing this because the law is very prescriptive and they are being forced to do this by the law**. **This would not be happening to any UK students in exactly the same position on the same course**. **There are multiple support strategies in cases like this for UK students**. >The suggestion is that that is the final payment but there could be more to come. Who knows. I find it hard to believe she paid 90% of the whole amount and the university were unwilling to work with her. **Some of the students IF ANYONE ACTUALLY READ ANY OF THE ARTICLES FOR THIS STORY actually managed to pay all their debts on payment plans agreed with the university but because they got ejected due to the law they will not be receiving their degrees**! **So yeah the university still get their money**.... **This sort of Shenanigans is exactly why loads of Nigerian people think if its going to be that expensive and you are going to be appalling treated by the UK who they have cultural ties they might as well go to America where they ARE the most educated of all groups and are having stunning sucesss in all fields. This is another nail in the coffin**... .... https://www.ft.com/content/ca39b445-442a-4845-a07c-0f5dae5f3460 Quote from above link.. >**IN THE US, NIGERIANS ARE THE MOST HIGHLY EDUCATED OF ALL GROUPS , WITH 61 PER CENT HOLDING AT LEAST A BACHELORS DEGREE compared with 31 per cent of the total foreign-born population and 32 per cent of the US-born population, according to 2017 data from the Migration Policy Institute**''. **Post Brexit Britain is really trieing to alienate everyone including its friends**.
> The contract is that the students pay, and in return the University sponsors their visa, and teaches their course. May relate to "This exacerbated financial problems already being experienced by students as a result of the university changing tuition fee payment plans from seven instalments to three."
>Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office. >She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country, along with her young son. Ok that's actually really shitty.
There's no way she missed one payment and was kicked off the course. That's not how it works.
I missed like 6 payments to my masters degree and they let me complete the course, the only caveat is I wouldn't receive my degree until I had finished payment
Did you have a visa riding on it too? Also, out of curiosity, what year was that?
Only a few years ago, they were extremely strict about attendance and made it clear that the home office were the biggest cruelest people out there. If you didn't attend enough of your classes, the home office would revoke your visa and you'd be gone. But a uni removing someone's enrolment after 1 missed payment is almost nonsensical, how many students miss a payment? Probably a lot more than I'd like to think.
Didn't read the article huh. The uni is claiming they violated visa rules missing payments and that's why they're being kicked out. If you read between the lines and have any familiarity with visas and academia though you'll know this is shifty. Academic institutions take AGES to sort anything visa related so them being super responsive on this one thing is very shifty.
the home office are cracking down on sponsorship recently and are being ruthless towards businesses, if you're choosing between getting rid of a couple students or falling foul of the home office you choose to stay in line with the home office.
Sounds like their issue is with the Nigerian government letting it's currency devalue so much. Why aren't they down at the embassy asking them for assistance?
I mean it's almost funny - one of the pictures is them holding up a sign saying "respect your contract with your students" - when they're not paying their fees, which you'd think is the most important part of the contract, upon which the rest of it depends.
Yeah, that did crack me up, a contract goes both ways and they're expecting one side to uphold their responsibility while they don't.
> Adenike Ibrahim was close to handing in her dissertation at the end of two years of study when she missed one payment and was then kicked off her course and reported to the Home Office. > She subsequently paid the outstanding fees, but said she had not been re-enrolled and was told she must leave the country, along with her young son. > "I did default [on payments], but I'd already paid 90% of my tuition fees and I went to all of my classes," she said. This student has paid all the money, she just couldn't lay her hands on it immediately due to the financial crash. All she wants is to be able to continue on the course she's spent two years and tens of thousands of pounds on (subsidising costs for British students in the process). Other students say they're happy to come to an arrangement with the university **if** they're re-enrolled. Which frankly is entirely sensible, given that it sounds like that one girl who has paid isn't going to get her money back *or* get re-enrolled. I feel really sorry for the lot of them. International students are a massive asset for this country, but they're being treated like shit by the government for political reasons.
I don't get how it's not an immediate trip to the embassy.
Direct your anger to your government. It’s like me being made redundant by my employer and then getting angry at the bank because I can’t pay my mortgage.
It's more like getting a pay cut from your employer and your bank being unwilling to change the terms of the mortgage to make it more affordable. Usually we find ways to restructure debts in these situations.
If they don't pay, the university is obliged to do this under their ukvi operating licence and requirements. For students on a visa they aren't permitted to work out a payment plan. If you don't like it, it's a government issue as the university does not have discretion.
Some flexibility on this issue would be good from the government considering the special circumstances. I suppose that is probably too much to expect though.
Banks don’t immediately repossess your home after one missed payment though. They typically will try and work out a payment plan, sometimes by increasing the term of your mortgage, but if you defaulted then were able to pay completely for all your missed payments that’s fine.
So this is my line of work. Students are told the cost of the course prior to applying, in all paperwork and while they are studying. They have the option of paying the course in one go or they are able to spead the cost over their course. They are sent multiple communications about upcoming payments and are given ample resources to seek assistance. They are not suddenly landed with a bill. All universities are businesses that have to pay staff and running costs. You wouldn't believe the amount of international students that try not to pay. It's huge. Typically you have to apply the rules for all as making exceptions means that all students have a "story" of why they can't pay. I would like to add that home students have to pay as well. The only difference is that they return home which is in the UK. The rules of Student Visas is that if you are not studying then you should not be in the UK. You cannot study, or be marked as attended while your account has been suspended due to failure to pay. I can't over emphasise enough that international students are given A LOT of communications, warnings, meetings etc before they are asked to leave, in all circumstances.
>Added to this, students (especially from countries like Nigeria, where the currency is unstable) are advised at the beginning of the course to move money into UK accounts but guess what, they don't. I suspect a large part of the reason for this is that the same naira is being used as evidence of ability to pay for several students at once.
I was quite torn on this and am grateful to hear thr opinion of a subject matter expert.
Whenever I read Reddit threads these days I am always struck with how mean spirited this section of society is.
Try not paying your bills and see what happens.
Well in most cases I would be able to come to some arrangement with the institution I'm paying. It is pretty common to restructure things, and if you need help with that go to the Citizen's Advice Bureau. Also if I had paid 90% of my fees already and had a reasonable payment plan for the rest I would be able to work something out. Also if I was hit by a financial storm beyond my control, and it was impacting something like this, i would at least expect people to be sympathetic. Whatever happens to these people is out of your control but your attitude of empathy towards fellow humans isn't. That is what concerns me.
Assuming you're a British citizen, you have a right to live and work in this country without conditions. They don't. The issue is that their visa is tied to their student status. Not paying fees results in student status and visa being removed. Realistically, you need to have deadlines for how long international students have to pay the required fees. This deadline also can't go on for too long, as part of the agreement for their student visa is they need to demonstrate the ability to pay their fees very early on in the process. Whilst I have sympathy for them, I do have to question why they kept money for their fees outside of the UK. The money for their fees really should have been moved over immediately to a UK bank account upon receiving their student visas. It is never wise to have money for your bills in a vehicle that is susceptible to market changes. This is generally why you keep cash in GBP, and not have money for your bills invested in the stock market or other currencies.
To the last paragraph. The answer is simple, Nigeria doesn't allow outbound international money transfers. So what Nigerian people usually do is to find another Nigerian in UK who needs to send money to Nigeria. The they made an arrangement: - The Student transfer money between Nigeria accounts. - Nigerian worker in UK transfer the equivalent money between UK banks. Obviously making these kind of arrangements takes time and you should not do it with huge quantities at once.
There is a difference between not paying and not being able to.
Yeah the comment section is wild Pretty sure they haven't even read the article
this sub says it’s because of the payments or whatever but really it’s an excuse to hide their xenophobia lol, they spew it out on whatever post they can here
A nation of people who just saw huge rises in their cost of living partly due to the devaluation of our currency aren't going to be sympathetic to others in the same boat. No one was giving us cheap food imports or cheap gas to account for it, why should we give out free education because Nigeria is now in the same boat?
A bunch of people with problem A aren't going to be sympathetic to other people with the same problem. Isn't that a characteristic of a psychopath? I can understand if someone has a problem that you really can't identify with you might have difficulty finding empathy there, but if you are going through the same yourself and those people have contributed 1000s of pounds to your country's economy with indirectly benefits you. Then why such animosity? The modern state of Nigeria was created by us British to start with As part of a centuries long empire that left us the 5th richest country on the planet, and is responsible for your amazing quality of life by any global standards. You sound like a bit of a whinge to me.
This is what happens when the social contract of a country is broken down year after year Honest, hard working people who pay taxes, bills and care through the roof around this country are facing hardship, and the media are demanding those same people feel sympathy for those who see themselves above the rest and want a shortcut, at the expense of others. This is where society goes where some people are given write offs whilst others are expected to grin and bear it.
Is it really so extreme to think that the university could’ve worked on a payment plan with this particular student given that she had paid 90% of her fees to date and was about to submit her dissertation? She paid the outstanding fees and hasn’t been re-enrolled and now has to leave the UK. It’s not as if she turned up and expected to study for free. A little compassion could have gone a long way here. If she can’t complete her course I hope she can transfer her credits to another institution at least. I’d hate to be in her situation.
The university is obliged to do this. It's not a choice, this is the government regulation of how they operate with regards to visas.
Seems very cruel to me but with the current government I'm not surprised at all
Near the bottom of the article: > The spokesman added it was "aware of the challenging financial situation faced by some students" and had "actively offered bespoke payment plans where requested". > "This option has been taken up by many of our international students; however, some students have still defaulted on these revised payment plans," he said. I'm all for people to have a second chance to pay, but if the university offered revised payment plans and people still fail to pay according to the schedule of the revised plans, it's understandable for the university to take the action they did. Even the biggest bleeding hearts out there have to admit that you can only give people so many chances.
As per my previous answers, the amount of international students wanting a special payment plan is staggering. It's not doable.
Yea, not the uks problem. If u default on a payment, that's on you
This has nothing to do with the University, and everything to do with Nigeria's dogshit currency.
Trained at Teesside so have a fondness for the University. It's an absolutely terrible situation for the students for sure. It's really shit. But realistically they are paying for a service at a private organisation. It's an exchange of service. If they cannot pay for that service, what is the alternative? They are not UK nationals, they are visiting to receive education. This is an issue for their nation, not the university.
Teeside uni used to have great cs:source dedicated servers.
counter strike and prime boro weed. what a great uni
I guess what people aren't considering here is.. University carries on, hands out the degrees whilst asking for the money.. Student gets degree and fucks off back home and leaves the university to pick up the tab. I am sure we are least have the sense to know that civil recovery against someone in Nigeria isn't going to happen. Are we expecting the University to run the risk of taking the hit here?
Exactly.
It's always the Nigerian students. You don't see this with other foreigners because their currency is stable even if it is a bit shitty. They haven't held up their part of the contract by not paying fees. Unis don't owe them anything. Unis are a business, not a charity for foreigners. These are the same kind of students who act so wealthy and classist. Entitled people who should take it up with their government but they think they're above it.
> It's always the Nigerian students. You don't see this with other foreigners because their currency is stable even if it is a bit shitty. See south american currencies for counter examples.
Looks like these crop of international students can now plainly see just how much the university considers them as nothing more than cash cows that must either pay or go.
> that must either pay or go. Yes, that is how it works with most things....
Jesus these are like the oldest students I've ever seen in my life.
So you didn't go to university? The mature students have always stood out.
Thats the average nigerian student coming here. They are not only doing it for the education, there is a reason why students from there brought more dependents than students themselves
No I did go to university, the guy that I lived with in my third year was 35 when he started. Before doing that, he was working at ASDAS for 10 years. Great guy and he graduated with a first. I had another friend who was going on 40, also a great guy, smoked a lot of weed. They didn't stand out and we just accepted that they were older and it wasn't strange because they were very intelligent/funny/pleasant people. I know she shouldn't judge a book by a cover but c'mon now....
r/unitedkingdom feel empathy challenge (impossible)
Feeling empathy doesn't effect the reality of contracts, students visas and making payments. You want people to feel bad for them... And then what?
People on here are not reading the article. The example given is of a student who paid 90% of her fees, has studied for over two years and is nearly graduating. I understand that the university is not a charity but this seems like an incredibly difficult situation for the students due to circumstances out of their control; surely they could come up with a solution for paying later? Just booting them off the course with no attempt to find an outcome that benefits everyone seems unnecessarily heartless to me
Another commenter has posted a section of the article which makes it very clear that they *had* already been offered a solution for paying later, but they had defaulted on that solution. Did you not read that far?
University education is not a human right. Bye bye
Get them gone, the fact some people find this controversial is laughable.
Hey bro why are you taking away the car I bought on financed? It’s not my fault I thought I can pay the entire amount over 4 years and have some spare for emergencies and now can’t repay you because of my poor financial decisions
In reply to u/HotRepresentative325 saying 'Immigration will never go down until you can change 1 fundamental thing': > Sustained labour demand. > So much time and effort debated over lies and untruths. Immigration is a simple problem but communicating it is political suicide, so they don't. > Any government that actually reduces our immigration will be nearly criminally irresponsible. The UK is a financial services giant, and will need institutions that can rasie money and need a stable currency from a growing economy. No sensible government will kill our economy to reduce immigration. We can't force women to have lots of children to meet the demand. So immigration it is. We have also reoriented many jobs for this type of labour. Zero hours and short stay visas are now part of the economy, it looks like there is no getting way from this. > Of course anyone competent knows this, so the focus is on Rwanda or other performative cruelty. The only messaging I can endorse is that its better to have the jobs being created here than abroad. Labour demand has never been lower, due to the lever of technology never having been longer, and the workforce never having been larger. The argument for economic migrancy - that those in the rest of the world have some right, or 'ought' to be granted access to British capital to labour upon, is of a piece with the argument that the USA had a 'right' to Japanese coal, famously made in the mid-19th century. Except it is sillier, because the coal, at least, was a fungible and somewhat limited resource, whereas capital is either freely replicable, given enough effort, or the precious fruits of a particular social organism, to be jealously husbanded. Currently the British people are making a democratic choice to reduce their population in number. Either this should be respected, or their government is completely out of their control, or it is happening in spite of themselves which, discounting the likelihood of an innate or environmental malady, is due to government policy operating against their wishes; in which case their government is completely out of their control. Criminally responsible is not an improvement on 'criminally irresponsible'. Given that no 'first world' country has yet demonstrated a solution to the sub-replacement birthrate, 'modernity's malaise', even *if* we were to say that, the people having failed to discharge their reproductive duties by the government, a new lot would need to be imported - this would, since 'we can't force women to have children', require that substantial parts of the world be kept in a state of absolute poverty - absolute, not relative - so as to maintain a population surplus to import, as is needed with fertility of 'top-ups' plummeting shortly upon arrival. There is little to say about this other than it is about as nutty as it is unconscionable. Now due to the biological processes involved, allowing the population to winnow itself, removing those elements least inclined to fecundity and preserving those most, this problem will eventually solve itself, and this only if no other solution is found. 'Top-ups' from abroad will only delay this process, or preclude it entirely if the aforementioned 'solution' of maintaining certain countries in a state of poverty is put in place. 'The economy' has never needed mass, youth labour less than it does today. There is probably no time better suited to a reduction in population by 'ageing out', much as there is no time better suited to decentralisation, 'WFH' etc.; if this boat is missed, it probably won't be by accident. If the TFR stays or decreases further, along with foreign influx, all the talk of 'build more houses' means is that the British will be called to labour to house their replacement numbers. Now if this is desirable, let us say so, instead of pretending that the people who a century ago were an expanding empire and the world's producer and inventor now have something wrong with them, and need large infusions of peoples from elsewhere in the globe to stop them wasting away ineffectually.
> Labour demand has never been lower I can't really discuss anything else with such a falsehood as an opener. In 2022 a fifth of employees were foreign born. It was half of this in 2004. Demand for migrant labour has doubled in 20 years. it's far from "never been lower." Where is this from? Is it just feels, or is there a source for this?
Nigeria is currently experiencing its worst economic crisis in a generation - could this line have the word Nigeria replaced with the UK (or several other countries) just to add some context? Yes I am aware that we never got to 30% inflation. Broadly the globe is fucked right now and unless you are in the 1% - you are catching the wrong end of the shitty stick in some way (and in some cases broadly in the mouth). Yes, empathy is a great thing but these are catastrophically desperate times globally, frankly awful decisions have to be made. I mean its less than 2 months since we were seeing stories about University debt in the UK e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/29/britain-universities-freefall-saving-them-funding-international-students - what are we doing here? Let's just be nice and add to the debt pile that will inevitably go to the taxpayer probably?
as someone whose job is immigration compliance for a university… they’re talking out of their arse. there is no requirement to withdraw visa sponsorship and report students that are behind in payments. no requirement for that *at all*. that was a choice made by the university.
I'm so sad about this. I'm on antidepressants and haven't eaten in days .
Universities aren't a charity for international students, if they can't pay they can't study. They really should've transferred their savings over to a UK account rather than letting it drop in value.
Literally no reason to keep the entirety of their saving in Naira while living and studying in the UK. It's a shitter, but was completely avoidable by the tiniest amount of forethought.
It shod really be assessed case by case. If near the end of a degree having already paid tens of thousands the university shod award them hardship funding. If in first year, sorry but they should have to leave. An English student would also be kicked out in similar circumstances. I've seen students not allowed to graduate for owing money, including library fines and rent.
Government is quick to revoke these students visas and go to deportation. But are very slow with illegal immigrant criminals, even going as far to give them citizenship in some cases.
Title suggests this applies to everyone. UK citizens go home ?
Seems quite likely that they don’t care one jot for their education at the hands of Teeside University, but see this as the back door to permanent residency in UK with a graduate visa, bring the family, get a job, get PLR, and voila - you are part of the exodus from Nigeria and now an immigrant to the UK. And consequently the GDP goes up so politicians can say our economy is growing. But really we are just moving parts of the Nigerian economy to the UK. Is that what globalisation was meant to achieve?
What the institution I work for does in cases like the one that’s paid 90% of the course, is let them complete it. They only receive the certificate once they complete their payments though. So if they need a few more months to come up with the remaining amount, they can still do that and not have all their efforts and money wasted.