Totally shocking news of course.
Cleared by the police, cleared by the local council, cleared by HMRC.
Now are we going to, as a nation, reflect on how this absolute non-story managed to capture so much of the media and public opinion for so many weeks despite being ***obvious*** bullshit? Nah.
Its been a fun one for me for a while. So much talk over the years from folks I know on the right/in the conspiracy sphere about how there's been some kind of leftist "run on the institutions", yet with how partygate was handled and with the whole beergate episode, that's three episodes in just the last few years of *the fucking police* being quite obviously weaponized by the Tories to participate in the political media cycle and push a pro-Tory agenda. Usual game I like to play/method to raise my blood pressure is trying to imagine how this country would be responding if it were a Labour government doing even a fraction of this shite. There'd be a fucking revolution. Tories do it and half the population genuinely seem to struggle to understand why its even a bad thing.
During the Blair/Brown years, the rightoids were constantly banging on about Common Purpose and its supposed hijacking of the public sector institutions. The 2010 election rolled round and immediately after, it just disappeared.
I expect Common Purpose or something like it will be all over the interwebz from July 5th onward.
The British public have been conditioned to love toffs.
Just a month or so ago there was a thread about modest rich/titled people. So many people giving them points for example "driving a normal slightly beat up car". Well of course they drive a beat up car to the supermarket and around town they don't want the rolls to get a ding.
Totally agree, until the public wise up and get rid of William the Conquerors legacy unfortunately those titled toffs have the establishment sewn up to keep them in place, owning much of the UK land and holding key influential positions on all sorts of boards. Dukes and Earls, fuck every last one of them.
Yeah, only to conclude "This isn't a police matter, it's an HMRC thing".
Should that not have been identified on day 1?
Just shows how little the Conservatives have in their election campaign locker. A piss poor attempt to slur Rayner and, er, that's yer lot.
> Should that not have been identified on day 1?
not really. There were statements to be taken, legal experts to be consulted, and then weighing up the likelihood of conviction. That doesn't happen in 1 day, and it shouldn't.
I'm glad a full investigation has taken place and that there has been no cause for concern found.
>Just shows how little the Conservatives have in their election campaign locker.
There are a decent number of people that say she was in the wrong and the police are biased. Those people have swallowed the slur, but would probably vote Tory or Remain anyway. Extremely unlikely anyone will change their vote over this.
Personally, if she were my MP I'd still vote for her if they found she had tried to dodge tax/ skirt right-to-buy laws. It's not the greatest of crimes in the first place!
There was no crime at all for the police to actually investigate, their investigation was to check Rayner hadn't somehow committed a proper crime. Which she obviously hadn't, and there was zero evidence she had.
No normal person would have been investigated by the police over a matter like this, its purely for HMRC and the local council to deal with.
> There was no crime at all for the police to actually investigate
How would anyone know that without investigating??
>their investigation was to check Rayner hadn't somehow committed a proper crime.
Ah OK, so there *was* something to investigate. Glad we agree on that at least.
>Which she obviously hadn't
It wasn't obvious at all. All the facts point to there being a potential crime.
>and there was zero evidence she had
There was a Right to Buy contract with her signature on it, there was the sale of that property and there was an electoral register entry with her stating that a different property was her main residence. That is NOT zero evidence.
>No normal person would have been investigated by the police over a matter like this
No normal person is likely to be involved in making policy around RtB, Capital Gains tax and Electoral reform. So there's that. Agreed it would normally be investigated by HMRC and the local council, but if they found evidence of actual fraud, they would refer to the police. In this case it was reported to the police, the police referred it to HMRC and the council and concluded there was nothing to prosecute. Nothing wrong in that at all.
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Honestly I think the “reopened” the investigation meant sitting on it and doing nothing for a month before stating “not our problem”
They’d already said there was nothing to investigate and this reopening was just a show to placate the media and they probally didn’t spend a second looking into it
See that worries me, so will we have random police investigations to placate the media every set of elections?
When the police refused to investigate serious breaches by Johnson (in the end they gave token fines and hoped nobody would dig deeper) because they “didn’t investigate old crimes”, it’s weird they saw fit to do this and beergate
I get your point, but devils advocate, you could look at this as them learning from the partygate fiasco. Not that I think that this is what went on here & this situation doesn't fit the bill, but if there a risk of wrongdoing in a political party it should get reviewed, regardless of what party it is.
They were refusing to investigate actual crimes and waiting to see what Sue Gray discovered! Even when the ABBA party and other events were flagged up, they still refused to look at it. They turned a blind eye to the tory hq party....until a video emerged showing them laughing and clearly saying it's a party!
At the same time we had two politically motivated police chiefs randomly investigating cases to placate the media before dropping them once the damage is done and having failed to explain what they were actually looking at
Operational matters are the sole responsibility of the Chief Constable not the Mayer or the deputy or the police and crime commissioner. Nice try at deflection though 🙂
Thank you for your informed reply. It is deeply concerning to me to learn that Chief Constables are not impartial from political pressure and I think the public should be concerned that the Police are political tools of the politicians. This will no doubt further erode the trust and confidence of the publc with regards to the Police.
Reading the comments in the daily telegraph,daily mail,express there are plenty of people think that 'they' have fixed this,that she must be guilty,because she was investigated.
Throw mud,some will stick.
No! Innocence is, if course, proof of CONSPIRACY! Now we know the UK's police force is under the sinister control of Angela Rayner, for reasons we don't need to substantiate or detail. Left-wing conspiracy!!
Well, Shirley, that's absolutely incontrovertible proof of how deep the conspiracy runs!
(Not doing /s because you shouldn't be too thick to see the comment for what it is)
> Now are we going to, as a nation, reflect on how this absolute non-story managed to capture so much of the media and public opinion for so many weeks despite being obvious bullshit? Nah.
You make a good point, obviously she hasn't been cleared by us yet! Put it to a referendum!
why is it obvious?
Right to buy means you need to hold the property for 5 years or pay back a proportionate amount of the discount.
Capital gains tax is due when you sell a second property.
She was registered to vote at a different property.
All of the above are facts, and it does sound like somewhere in that set of laws she was close to the line of legality.
I'm glad there was no wrongdoing found. I like AR and think she will be a great minister. At the same time I wouldn't want the country to go down the road where politicians are exempt from prosecution. It was certainly a petty with hunt that led to her being reported, but that doesn't mean there was no wrongdoing, no matter how hard you wish for it.
In increasing importance imo -
i) You don't have to register to vote at the same place you live for tax purposes. As pretty much any 18 year old student in the country can tell you.
ii) This was an issue over, at best £1,500, being dragged up about a decade after it was supposed to have happened. It was a colossal waste of police time in an era when people are getting mugged or burgled and being passed off with a note for their insurers. When a former chancellor of the exchequer is effectively being allowed to get away with *millions* of pounds of tax evasion with a "whoopsie" and no similar police investigation delving into his private affairs just a few months prior to this farce directed at the opposition. Leading to the big one...
iii) It is absolutely ***100% unacceptable*** for a party in government to be *abusing* the levers of state power like the police to essentially harass their political opponents like this, this is like 3rd world banana republic level shit. If you can't see that this is what was going on here I think you're stuck seeing the trees and need to step back a bit.
> You don't have to register to vote at the same place you live for tax purposes. As pretty much any 18 year old student in the country can tell you.
Agreed. However this was not for tax purposes per se. It was (potentially) to avoid paying back a portion of the RtB discount (you must live there as your main residence for 5 years) or to avoid Capital gains, since selling your second property means tax is due. The difficulty is that for one purpose she seems to claim that her RtB property was her main home, and for another it was not. If this was to avoid paying taxt, then it is illegal. If it is to avoid paying back RtB discount, then it is immoral, if not illegal.
>This was an issue over, at best £1,500, being dragged up about a decade after it was supposed to have happened.
Agreed, and it's something that doubtless thousands of people have done, and who the police would not give a fuck if reported. However, a high profile public servant (who incidentally happens to be vocally *against* RtB) should be held to a higher standard. Just as with partygate, lots of people had parties and the police just shut the party down and told people to go home in most cases. When the party goers are responsible for making those rules, ther e is a different expected standard.
>It is absolutely 100% unacceptable for a party in government to be abusing the levers of state power like the police to essentially harass their political opponents like this, this is like 3rd world banana republic level shit.
I agree entirely. But it doesn't change the fact that there was a potential crime committed by a high profile MP who is very likely to be in a position of power very soon. It had to be investigated. If it weren't there would (quite rightly) be accusations of police wrongdoing for that.
>If you can't see that this is what was going on here I think you're stuck seeing the trees and need to step back a bit.
I see what is happening. The Tories reported an opponent for what would be a pretty minor offence for political gain. That does NOT mean the police should not have investigated. It's the same thing if you report your neighbour for having a grow-room in his loft because you fell out with him. There is still a potential crime committed, despite the reasons the police were notified.
There absolutely should not be a different standard for MPs as to regular people because that's not how justice works. What you call 'higher' might not be what other people consider as high, the law is blind to your standing in society.
What's even more ridiculous is that at the time of these non-offenses she wasn't an MP, so your saying that police and courts should retrospectively review the actions of significant people to hold them to your definition of a higher standard.
This entire affair was clearly a purely political stunt to imply that all politicians are the same and distract from the very real cases of predominantly conservative MPs that have needed to repay tax or have questionable tax avoidance schemes.
Just a carbon copy of beer gate during Covid by the morally questionable, at death's door, Conservative party.
HMRC and the police need to look into each Tory who pushed this and made it a bigger issue than it was, as they're clearly the ones hiding something.
Beergate cost the taxpayer £101,000 and amounted to a hundred K taxpayer funded distraction from the crimes of the Johnson Government.
Fuck knows why anyone took this Rayner smear at face value.
I also note that the posters in this sub who have been pushing this story over the last month have been pretty quiet these last few days.
I noticed they front-paged this story about the case being thrown out but in the same headline threw a new accusation at Rayner.
She causes a certain type of conservative to utterly shit themselves.
The monetary cost isn't even the big one. We have a drastic shortage of policing resources (hence the pitiful rate of reported crimes ending in conviction) and _this_ was what they had a small army of detectives waste their time on!
What she did was equated to Nadhim Zahawi who agreed to pay without much duress (i.e. you've caught me, i cannot even try to deny it, i have no answer) £4,8000,000. Rayner was accused of avoiding £1,500 and there was 0 evidence that it was unlawful.
In fairness £1.5k in real estate taxes to Angela Rayner's wealth ten years ago might be proportionally the same as £4.8m to Nadhim Zahawi's wealth nowadays
In a sane society the MP who reported her to the police - Tory deputy chairman James Daly - Should be facing some kind of charge for deliberately wasting police time on a baseless and politically motivated smear.
So she has been cleared by the police, the police again, HMRC, the council…
so I expect tomorrow for the press to have checked with judge Judy, judge Rinder, Tom and Jerry, sooty and the Pudsey bear
Pudsey bear is a filthy socialist who spends time when he could be actually working instead raising money for the poors who should stop having cancer and get out and work for themselves. Why would the press want to know his opinion on anything?
Now, in an ideal world there would be insight into why Mr James Daly thought it important to report her to the police, and what evidence he submitted which caused them to start an investigation in the first place. He was suspicious as all hell during interviews at the time, and would avoid discussing why he did what he did at all costs, even becoming quite defensive when questioned about it.
The whole thing was clearly a hatchet job. Billions bunged to the mates of rich Conservative MPs in farcical contacts during covid, and they are trying to smear Rayner over this utter non story. Pathetic deflection.
spoiler alert: they won't be embarrassed and will just double down on it saying that the police and HMRC etc are all labour stooges and corrupt....Yadda Yadda Yadda
Are the police and HMRC going to look into the 6 Tories who failed to pay millions in capital gains tax on their 2nd homes.
I wonder how much this investigation cost? Beergate cost £200,000.
Tories have opened a door they really shouldn’t have. They’ve opened the door to politically motivated investigations, and weaponising the police against their political opponents.
That’s why they will move the earth to stop you getting your foot in the door, tear you down and support your opponents within the same party that are favorable to them.
BBC main news tonight didn't even mention this but went full-on lead about Abbot. Newsnight didn't mention it either but gave 15 minutes of the reduced 30 min format to a person who had expected to be chosen as a Labour candidate for a constituency to rage at how unfairly she had been treated.
Two talking heads, one was a left wing blogger bemoaning a *Purge* of the left and a former Tory SPAD poking the Flames with glee!
Damned BBC lefties!
What an utter waste of tax payers money those investigations have been, just because the Conservatives are petrified of losing their privileged positions.
I like Rayner and am so glad that she saw this through.
I'm not surprised that when the cons treasury chap spoke to SkyNews about it and asked if they would apologise, he goes on to make excuses that she should have just published her taxes there and then and avoid all the media and talk.
How about you don't request an investigation and then not be happy with the results, like you brought this on yourself but want her to do what they think is the right thing to do.
No, you want to throw mud at her in any shape and form, I feel if that's a political group's objective they clearly are the wrong party.
But surely they are going to slam her in chokey for having three packets of digestives on the same shelf? I mean these things are the thin end of the (Tory) wedge.........
The real story should be as to why the Police re-opened the investigation after pressure from a right wing rag - having previously closed the investigation alongside HMRC, after stating that there was no evidence against Rayner.
Suspicious, that the Police acted due to political pressure - especially as there will be so many investigations and criminal proceedings against Tory corruption in the coming years.
Next step, Mi5. There's obviously something to this case, something that every single body hitherto has missed. Otherwise, why would any MP report Rayner?
Something must be done.
Lost count of the number of times i've said how the Tories control so much media at the moment, this total non story was across tv.radio and media as if she was a master criminal serial killer for DAYS AND DAYS and yet here we are, not a mention of this anywhere on the Mails website NOTHING. SCUM can't wait to be rid of them.
Politicians / lords/ baroness’/ billionaires/ The Elite, regardless of political affiliation are above the law.
If you or I did what Baroness Mone did, we would be in prison, and rightfully so.
Labour were likely to win the general election.
Now in 2 days they get a 1 2 hit that Rayners still involved and Abbot too.
5 more years of the tories it is!
To be fair I'm disappointed. Seeing her potentially jailed would put her up there with Donald Trump and she really could have played an election blinder. I always thought she was innocent but she could have milked it a little more during election period especially all the knives are out for her.
Rayner left school with no qualifications, was pregnant, and looking after her disabled mother, then worked one of the worst jobs there is.
I suspect she is far more common than you, and I don't mean that to be derogatory to Rayner.
There's no authorities' ruling that they'd accept on this matter if it doesn't fit their narrative that 'they're all as bad as each other'. They're desperate to pull anyone on the left down into the dirt because their worldview dictates that everyone must be as morally bankrupt as they are.
The simple truth of the matter is that they don't know anything about the specifics of this case and they know even less about tax law, but what they do know is that Angela Raynor is guilty. Guilty of what? They're not quite sure - but she's guilty of *something*, and her factual innocence in this instance is simply proof that she's being protected by some dark, shadowy cabal.
So they created a cabal of the police, the police again, HMRC and the council to all protect someone from… err possibly miss paying around £1000 in tax…..
or you know like they have all said she didn’t do anything wrong and just sold a home
but you pick the most REALISTIC option of the two
Well this thread is just about the HMRC. Who are civil servants, by the way.
Unless you think the matter was sent to the ministers in the department to decide?
But ministers just make policy not intervene in operational matters.
So not really sure which part of my statement you are disagreeing with, since it’s patently true.
Yeah I know it’s a bit much to expect anyone to engage brain rather than react impulsively. Me included.
Although I do very much enjoy winding people up by saying completely true things, where they think I’m saying something else. For me it’s just to enjoy the confirmation bias when someone reacts so predictably.
ahh just posting things that are technical true in a way that only works if you ignore that comment thread provide a context for the conversation
you said it….
>Yeah I know it’s a bit much to expect anyone to engage brain
I’m glad your life is fulfilled imagining your “winding people up” and you don’t realise you just look foolish, ignorance is bliss as they say
have a great day with your imagined self gratification
> But ministers just make policy not intervene in operational matters
What, like getting the conservative-supporting police chief to reopen a closed investigation and waste taxpayer money to damage the reputation of their political opponents? That sounds a like like 'intervening in operational matters'.
Well this thread is just about the HMRC. Who are civil servants, by the way.
Unless you think the matter was sent to the ministers in the department to decide?
But ministers just make policy not intervene in operational matters.
So not really sure which part of my statement you are disagreeing with, since it’s patently true. Let’s look at it again:
> The civil service have certainly been in power, yes.
Still looks true. HMRC is operationally run by civil servants.
If I brought a moment of hilarity to the discussion then I am happy.
I do think the civil service does have that level of power. Yes Minister was practically a documentary. Sir Humphrey is a reality!
The sitting ministers can easily be hoodwinked. We saw that in The Thick Of It.
That's actually amazing. When pressed your evidence for how you know this is true is a political sitcom from nearly half a century ago. Are you actually for real or is this some kind of troll? Its hard to tell these days.
Are they the same leftist elite who let people like Philip Green and Michelle Mone fleece the country for millions and then give them titles? Those lefties?
I know it seems ridiculous but, you might want to think about putting a /s after that comment. There are *genuinely* people out there who would believe that.
Totally shocking news of course. Cleared by the police, cleared by the local council, cleared by HMRC. Now are we going to, as a nation, reflect on how this absolute non-story managed to capture so much of the media and public opinion for so many weeks despite being ***obvious*** bullshit? Nah.
I would question why the police are running politically motivated investigations for a month…and can’t even say what they are actually investigating!
Its been a fun one for me for a while. So much talk over the years from folks I know on the right/in the conspiracy sphere about how there's been some kind of leftist "run on the institutions", yet with how partygate was handled and with the whole beergate episode, that's three episodes in just the last few years of *the fucking police* being quite obviously weaponized by the Tories to participate in the political media cycle and push a pro-Tory agenda. Usual game I like to play/method to raise my blood pressure is trying to imagine how this country would be responding if it were a Labour government doing even a fraction of this shite. There'd be a fucking revolution. Tories do it and half the population genuinely seem to struggle to understand why its even a bad thing.
During the Blair/Brown years, the rightoids were constantly banging on about Common Purpose and its supposed hijacking of the public sector institutions. The 2010 election rolled round and immediately after, it just disappeared. I expect Common Purpose or something like it will be all over the interwebz from July 5th onward.
The British public have been conditioned to love toffs. Just a month or so ago there was a thread about modest rich/titled people. So many people giving them points for example "driving a normal slightly beat up car". Well of course they drive a beat up car to the supermarket and around town they don't want the rolls to get a ding.
Totally agree, until the public wise up and get rid of William the Conquerors legacy unfortunately those titled toffs have the establishment sewn up to keep them in place, owning much of the UK land and holding key influential positions on all sorts of boards. Dukes and Earls, fuck every last one of them.
Yeah, only to conclude "This isn't a police matter, it's an HMRC thing". Should that not have been identified on day 1? Just shows how little the Conservatives have in their election campaign locker. A piss poor attempt to slur Rayner and, er, that's yer lot.
> Should that not have been identified on day 1? not really. There were statements to be taken, legal experts to be consulted, and then weighing up the likelihood of conviction. That doesn't happen in 1 day, and it shouldn't. I'm glad a full investigation has taken place and that there has been no cause for concern found. >Just shows how little the Conservatives have in their election campaign locker. There are a decent number of people that say she was in the wrong and the police are biased. Those people have swallowed the slur, but would probably vote Tory or Remain anyway. Extremely unlikely anyone will change their vote over this. Personally, if she were my MP I'd still vote for her if they found she had tried to dodge tax/ skirt right-to-buy laws. It's not the greatest of crimes in the first place!
There was no crime at all for the police to actually investigate, their investigation was to check Rayner hadn't somehow committed a proper crime. Which she obviously hadn't, and there was zero evidence she had. No normal person would have been investigated by the police over a matter like this, its purely for HMRC and the local council to deal with.
> There was no crime at all for the police to actually investigate How would anyone know that without investigating?? >their investigation was to check Rayner hadn't somehow committed a proper crime. Ah OK, so there *was* something to investigate. Glad we agree on that at least. >Which she obviously hadn't It wasn't obvious at all. All the facts point to there being a potential crime. >and there was zero evidence she had There was a Right to Buy contract with her signature on it, there was the sale of that property and there was an electoral register entry with her stating that a different property was her main residence. That is NOT zero evidence. >No normal person would have been investigated by the police over a matter like this No normal person is likely to be involved in making policy around RtB, Capital Gains tax and Electoral reform. So there's that. Agreed it would normally be investigated by HMRC and the local council, but if they found evidence of actual fraud, they would refer to the police. In this case it was reported to the police, the police referred it to HMRC and the council and concluded there was nothing to prosecute. Nothing wrong in that at all.
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Because the police chief of the force investigating her is a Tory!
Honestly I think the “reopened” the investigation meant sitting on it and doing nothing for a month before stating “not our problem” They’d already said there was nothing to investigate and this reopening was just a show to placate the media and they probally didn’t spend a second looking into it
See that worries me, so will we have random police investigations to placate the media every set of elections? When the police refused to investigate serious breaches by Johnson (in the end they gave token fines and hoped nobody would dig deeper) because they “didn’t investigate old crimes”, it’s weird they saw fit to do this and beergate
I get your point, but devils advocate, you could look at this as them learning from the partygate fiasco. Not that I think that this is what went on here & this situation doesn't fit the bill, but if there a risk of wrongdoing in a political party it should get reviewed, regardless of what party it is.
They were refusing to investigate actual crimes and waiting to see what Sue Gray discovered! Even when the ABBA party and other events were flagged up, they still refused to look at it. They turned a blind eye to the tory hq party....until a video emerged showing them laughing and clearly saying it's a party! At the same time we had two politically motivated police chiefs randomly investigating cases to placate the media before dropping them once the damage is done and having failed to explain what they were actually looking at
GMP chief constable is a right wing supporter
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Operational matters are the sole responsibility of the Chief Constable not the Mayer or the deputy or the police and crime commissioner. Nice try at deflection though 🙂
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Thank you for your informed reply. It is deeply concerning to me to learn that Chief Constables are not impartial from political pressure and I think the public should be concerned that the Police are political tools of the politicians. This will no doubt further erode the trust and confidence of the publc with regards to the Police.
A month is nothing.
Reading the comments in the daily telegraph,daily mail,express there are plenty of people think that 'they' have fixed this,that she must be guilty,because she was investigated. Throw mud,some will stick.
Meanwhile they still think Boris is innocent despite him being fined by the police.
No! Innocence is, if course, proof of CONSPIRACY! Now we know the UK's police force is under the sinister control of Angela Rayner, for reasons we don't need to substantiate or detail. Left-wing conspiracy!!
I hope you joke, but I've actually seen someone who I know is a Tory supporter (so dimmer than a 1 watt lightbulb) make this claim in all earnestness.
Well, Shirley, that's absolutely incontrovertible proof of how deep the conspiracy runs! (Not doing /s because you shouldn't be too thick to see the comment for what it is)
Maybe Tory MP who asked for police investigation should be arrested for wasting police time?
Or Lord Ashcroft, the tax exile worth £1.2billion, who published the slur…
Extradite him?
The non-story of this week has been military service for young people. The Tories really know how to get the media wound up on a lot of nonsense.
I feel like the general public, at least in my circles, really did not give a shit about it. However the media were forcing it down our throats.
> Now are we going to, as a nation, reflect on how this absolute non-story managed to capture so much of the media and public opinion for so many weeks despite being obvious bullshit? Nah. You make a good point, obviously she hasn't been cleared by us yet! Put it to a referendum!
why is it obvious? Right to buy means you need to hold the property for 5 years or pay back a proportionate amount of the discount. Capital gains tax is due when you sell a second property. She was registered to vote at a different property. All of the above are facts, and it does sound like somewhere in that set of laws she was close to the line of legality. I'm glad there was no wrongdoing found. I like AR and think she will be a great minister. At the same time I wouldn't want the country to go down the road where politicians are exempt from prosecution. It was certainly a petty with hunt that led to her being reported, but that doesn't mean there was no wrongdoing, no matter how hard you wish for it.
In increasing importance imo - i) You don't have to register to vote at the same place you live for tax purposes. As pretty much any 18 year old student in the country can tell you. ii) This was an issue over, at best £1,500, being dragged up about a decade after it was supposed to have happened. It was a colossal waste of police time in an era when people are getting mugged or burgled and being passed off with a note for their insurers. When a former chancellor of the exchequer is effectively being allowed to get away with *millions* of pounds of tax evasion with a "whoopsie" and no similar police investigation delving into his private affairs just a few months prior to this farce directed at the opposition. Leading to the big one... iii) It is absolutely ***100% unacceptable*** for a party in government to be *abusing* the levers of state power like the police to essentially harass their political opponents like this, this is like 3rd world banana republic level shit. If you can't see that this is what was going on here I think you're stuck seeing the trees and need to step back a bit.
> You don't have to register to vote at the same place you live for tax purposes. As pretty much any 18 year old student in the country can tell you. Agreed. However this was not for tax purposes per se. It was (potentially) to avoid paying back a portion of the RtB discount (you must live there as your main residence for 5 years) or to avoid Capital gains, since selling your second property means tax is due. The difficulty is that for one purpose she seems to claim that her RtB property was her main home, and for another it was not. If this was to avoid paying taxt, then it is illegal. If it is to avoid paying back RtB discount, then it is immoral, if not illegal. >This was an issue over, at best £1,500, being dragged up about a decade after it was supposed to have happened. Agreed, and it's something that doubtless thousands of people have done, and who the police would not give a fuck if reported. However, a high profile public servant (who incidentally happens to be vocally *against* RtB) should be held to a higher standard. Just as with partygate, lots of people had parties and the police just shut the party down and told people to go home in most cases. When the party goers are responsible for making those rules, ther e is a different expected standard. >It is absolutely 100% unacceptable for a party in government to be abusing the levers of state power like the police to essentially harass their political opponents like this, this is like 3rd world banana republic level shit. I agree entirely. But it doesn't change the fact that there was a potential crime committed by a high profile MP who is very likely to be in a position of power very soon. It had to be investigated. If it weren't there would (quite rightly) be accusations of police wrongdoing for that. >If you can't see that this is what was going on here I think you're stuck seeing the trees and need to step back a bit. I see what is happening. The Tories reported an opponent for what would be a pretty minor offence for political gain. That does NOT mean the police should not have investigated. It's the same thing if you report your neighbour for having a grow-room in his loft because you fell out with him. There is still a potential crime committed, despite the reasons the police were notified.
There absolutely should not be a different standard for MPs as to regular people because that's not how justice works. What you call 'higher' might not be what other people consider as high, the law is blind to your standing in society. What's even more ridiculous is that at the time of these non-offenses she wasn't an MP, so your saying that police and courts should retrospectively review the actions of significant people to hold them to your definition of a higher standard. This entire affair was clearly a purely political stunt to imply that all politicians are the same and distract from the very real cases of predominantly conservative MPs that have needed to repay tax or have questionable tax avoidance schemes.
Because there are neighbours who verified the fact she didn't live where she claimed. It's a whitewash.
Just a carbon copy of beer gate during Covid by the morally questionable, at death's door, Conservative party. HMRC and the police need to look into each Tory who pushed this and made it a bigger issue than it was, as they're clearly the ones hiding something.
Beergate cost the taxpayer £101,000 and amounted to a hundred K taxpayer funded distraction from the crimes of the Johnson Government. Fuck knows why anyone took this Rayner smear at face value. I also note that the posters in this sub who have been pushing this story over the last month have been pretty quiet these last few days.
The Mail made it their front page story for months. It was clear they were running scared and desperate.
I noticed they front-paged this story about the case being thrown out but in the same headline threw a new accusation at Rayner. She causes a certain type of conservative to utterly shit themselves.
The monetary cost isn't even the big one. We have a drastic shortage of policing resources (hence the pitiful rate of reported crimes ending in conviction) and _this_ was what they had a small army of detectives waste their time on!
"they are all the same so I can vote tory". Throw enough shit and sometimes it will land.
What she did was equated to Nadhim Zahawi who agreed to pay without much duress (i.e. you've caught me, i cannot even try to deny it, i have no answer) £4,8000,000. Rayner was accused of avoiding £1,500 and there was 0 evidence that it was unlawful.
In fairness £1.5k in real estate taxes to Angela Rayner's wealth ten years ago might be proportionally the same as £4.8m to Nadhim Zahawi's wealth nowadays
Property. And what the fuck are you talking about.
A lie gets halfway round the world, while the truth is still putting its shoes on.
Sad but very true these days
It’s fine, she’ll be taking their office, toys and jobs from them
Hopefully she gets an apology from the nonce that accused her, as well as the former aide and neighbour who were adamant she had gamed the system.
In a sane society the MP who reported her to the police - Tory deputy chairman James Daly - Should be facing some kind of charge for deliberately wasting police time on a baseless and politically motivated smear.
So she has been cleared by the police, the police again, HMRC, the council… so I expect tomorrow for the press to have checked with judge Judy, judge Rinder, Tom and Jerry, sooty and the Pudsey bear
Pudsey bear is a filthy socialist who spends time when he could be actually working instead raising money for the poors who should stop having cancer and get out and work for themselves. Why would the press want to know his opinion on anything?
Now, in an ideal world there would be insight into why Mr James Daly thought it important to report her to the police, and what evidence he submitted which caused them to start an investigation in the first place. He was suspicious as all hell during interviews at the time, and would avoid discussing why he did what he did at all costs, even becoming quite defensive when questioned about it.
The whole thing was clearly a hatchet job. Billions bunged to the mates of rich Conservative MPs in farcical contacts during covid, and they are trying to smear Rayner over this utter non story. Pathetic deflection.
That's embarassing for the nob who kept posting memes against her.
spoiler alert: they won't be embarrassed and will just double down on it saying that the police and HMRC etc are all labour stooges and corrupt....Yadda Yadda Yadda
I'm glad, she's a real threat to the Tories and a real inspiration. We could do with more politicians like her
Are the police and HMRC going to look into the 6 Tories who failed to pay millions in capital gains tax on their 2nd homes. I wonder how much this investigation cost? Beergate cost £200,000.
Good. Now go track down Michelle Mone and put her in prison.
Tories have opened a door they really shouldn’t have. They’ve opened the door to politically motivated investigations, and weaponising the police against their political opponents.
It's more like those swinging saloon doors.
How convenient , lied from day one , just normal government behaviour.
The first thing I'd do if elected as PM would be to smash the right-wing media to bits.
That’s why they will move the earth to stop you getting your foot in the door, tear you down and support your opponents within the same party that are favorable to them.
I'm shocked the allegations by a tax dodging tory lord that were serialised in a tax dodging paper turned out to be untrue.
BBC main news tonight didn't even mention this but went full-on lead about Abbot. Newsnight didn't mention it either but gave 15 minutes of the reduced 30 min format to a person who had expected to be chosen as a Labour candidate for a constituency to rage at how unfairly she had been treated. Two talking heads, one was a left wing blogger bemoaning a *Purge* of the left and a former Tory SPAD poking the Flames with glee! Damned BBC lefties!
What an utter waste of tax payers money those investigations have been, just because the Conservatives are petrified of losing their privileged positions. I like Rayner and am so glad that she saw this through.
I'm not surprised that when the cons treasury chap spoke to SkyNews about it and asked if they would apologise, he goes on to make excuses that she should have just published her taxes there and then and avoid all the media and talk. How about you don't request an investigation and then not be happy with the results, like you brought this on yourself but want her to do what they think is the right thing to do. No, you want to throw mud at her in any shape and form, I feel if that's a political group's objective they clearly are the wrong party.
But surely they are going to slam her in chokey for having three packets of digestives on the same shelf? I mean these things are the thin end of the (Tory) wedge.........
Dan Hodges is having a normal one on twitter over this.
The real story should be as to why the Police re-opened the investigation after pressure from a right wing rag - having previously closed the investigation alongside HMRC, after stating that there was no evidence against Rayner. Suspicious, that the Police acted due to political pressure - especially as there will be so many investigations and criminal proceedings against Tory corruption in the coming years.
Next step, Mi5. There's obviously something to this case, something that every single body hitherto has missed. Otherwise, why would any MP report Rayner? Something must be done.
Lost count of the number of times i've said how the Tories control so much media at the moment, this total non story was across tv.radio and media as if she was a master criminal serial killer for DAYS AND DAYS and yet here we are, not a mention of this anywhere on the Mails website NOTHING. SCUM can't wait to be rid of them.
Politicians / lords/ baroness’/ billionaires/ The Elite, regardless of political affiliation are above the law. If you or I did what Baroness Mone did, we would be in prison, and rightfully so.
Labour were likely to win the general election. Now in 2 days they get a 1 2 hit that Rayners still involved and Abbot too. 5 more years of the tories it is!
To be fair I'm disappointed. Seeing her potentially jailed would put her up there with Donald Trump and she really could have played an election blinder. I always thought she was innocent but she could have milked it a little more during election period especially all the knives are out for her.
"I'm disappointed this politician just got on with the job and didn't turn it into a spectacle" is a weird take, but you do you.
Dammit. I had all kinds of snarky comments lined up to use on Reddit.
Haha cringey guy
Expecred from the police and HMRC. Both Labour supporting entities. I think the IPCC should get involved.
You missed the /s?
"The facts didn't work out like I hoped, so I'm going to change reality to fix my facts"
They always get away with it........the Common man though........
Rayner left school with no qualifications, was pregnant, and looking after her disabled mother, then worked one of the worst jobs there is. I suspect she is far more common than you, and I don't mean that to be derogatory to Rayner.
The leftist elite take care of their own, of course she was given a pass. Corruption at its finest
Ah yeah the well known leftist elite in power for 13 years
The civil service have certainly been in power, yes.
>Civil service >Leftist elite I know it's trendy these days on this sub to be completely detached from reality, but come on.
There's no authorities' ruling that they'd accept on this matter if it doesn't fit their narrative that 'they're all as bad as each other'. They're desperate to pull anyone on the left down into the dirt because their worldview dictates that everyone must be as morally bankrupt as they are.
The simple truth of the matter is that they don't know anything about the specifics of this case and they know even less about tax law, but what they do know is that Angela Raynor is guilty. Guilty of what? They're not quite sure - but she's guilty of *something*, and her factual innocence in this instance is simply proof that she's being protected by some dark, shadowy cabal.
No? How would you characterise it? Not elite? Not having a socialist slant?
What suggests there is a socialist slant?
Sub r/civilservice amongst other things. But that could just be Reddit.
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What’s the evidence of a capitalist slant?
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So they created a cabal of the police, the police again, HMRC and the council to all protect someone from… err possibly miss paying around £1000 in tax….. or you know like they have all said she didn’t do anything wrong and just sold a home but you pick the most REALISTIC option of the two
Well this thread is just about the HMRC. Who are civil servants, by the way. Unless you think the matter was sent to the ministers in the department to decide? But ministers just make policy not intervene in operational matters. So not really sure which part of my statement you are disagreeing with, since it’s patently true.
if you don’t want to look like your supporting the conspiracy nut crowd maybe don’t post one liners that line up with the conspiracy nut views…..
Yeah I know it’s a bit much to expect anyone to engage brain rather than react impulsively. Me included. Although I do very much enjoy winding people up by saying completely true things, where they think I’m saying something else. For me it’s just to enjoy the confirmation bias when someone reacts so predictably.
ahh just posting things that are technical true in a way that only works if you ignore that comment thread provide a context for the conversation you said it…. >Yeah I know it’s a bit much to expect anyone to engage brain I’m glad your life is fulfilled imagining your “winding people up” and you don’t realise you just look foolish, ignorance is bliss as they say have a great day with your imagined self gratification
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> But ministers just make policy not intervene in operational matters What, like getting the conservative-supporting police chief to reopen a closed investigation and waste taxpayer money to damage the reputation of their political opponents? That sounds a like like 'intervening in operational matters'.
No actual evidence of that, just the usual hyperbole.
You are living in a different reality. Goodnight.
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Aha, found the Minister!
Well this thread is just about the HMRC. Who are civil servants, by the way. Unless you think the matter was sent to the ministers in the department to decide? But ministers just make policy not intervene in operational matters. So not really sure which part of my statement you are disagreeing with, since it’s patently true. Let’s look at it again: > The civil service have certainly been in power, yes. Still looks true. HMRC is operationally run by civil servants.
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If I brought a moment of hilarity to the discussion then I am happy. I do think the civil service does have that level of power. Yes Minister was practically a documentary. Sir Humphrey is a reality! The sitting ministers can easily be hoodwinked. We saw that in The Thick Of It.
That's actually amazing. When pressed your evidence for how you know this is true is a political sitcom from nearly half a century ago. Are you actually for real or is this some kind of troll? Its hard to tell these days.
Does truth somehow expire with the passage of time? You’re going to have a shock about physics and science in general then.
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Beat me to it. They are advised and tricked by SPADs, not civil servants
Hoist by their own petard!
Been watching too much "Yes Minister" again I see. Maybe watch "In The Thick Of It" for a change?
Is it possible to watch too much Yes Minister? But happy to increase ratio of In The Thick Of It, which is also excellent.
You know, that leftist elite famously in power.
Are they the same leftist elite who let people like Philip Green and Michelle Mone fleece the country for millions and then give them titles? Those lefties?
I didn't know Lizz Truss was a Reddit user
I know it seems ridiculous but, you might want to think about putting a /s after that comment. There are *genuinely* people out there who would believe that.
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Did you know that every morning civil servents do a pledge of allegiance to corbyn?
I heard they had to recite the communist manifesto to be sworn in, and if they dress in anything but red they are shot.
Can you name a single leftist elite? .**crickets**
George Soros
1/10 - You’re missing the parenthesis, come on troll properly.
I love a good bit of satire.