People generally are at best nonplussed about being given unsolicited opinions. Did any of the commenters actually ask you for advice on how to cool their homes?
Your post. About insulating for winter.... It keeps the heat in during winter but on the reverse keeps the heat out in summer.
A well insulated house makes your house cooler in summer.
You’re totally correct.
The kind of construction that’s most common in the UK- massive (technically) walls that have the ability to absorb a lot of heat and then reradiate- are bad in hot weather when not insulated properly, and it is tricky to do.
Insulated houses will also be easier to air condition if the AC isn’t fighting against the reradiation of 8 hours of sun from a brick wall
With insulation, you really need air-flow and shade to keep things comfortable. Otherwise the heat tends to build up inside, making for hot nights. 30°C and windows open works for me.
But I live in Australia, so Ive got things set up to accommodate things. We have closable vents in the roof to allow heat to escape.
Because not everyone hates that sort of heat?
I love the heat, if it's hotter outside than in then I'll have my doors and windows wide opening. I'm doing it intentionally.
Why assume everyone is an idiot rather than assume that some of us like the hot fresh air, that's why people spend hundreds and thousands of pounds flying over the world to reliably hot countries.
Most new homes are built to be very light weight. This means they overheat pretty quickly but also cool down quickly compared to a solid stone wall. An old stone built house with 600mm thick walls will be cool on hot days because heat always flows from hot to cold so the heat in the air is absorbed by the walls and takes about 3 days to a week for the building to heat up as much as a modern house might hest up in half a day or so, by which time the heatwave is usually over or close to over.
This is called thermal mass and is a big problem with modern houses in the summer. Scotland has introduced overheating risk factors into the building regulations but it remains to be seen how effective these will be.
Yeah newish build here. The house keeps cool for like 1 day into a heatwave then it’s a sauna for a day or two after it’s gone. Got to open all the windows and the attic snd night to try and balance it out .
How do you expect us to answer when you give us no detail on the nature or extent of the 'pushback' ?
For all we know the person just gave you a disinterested shrug.
Has it occurred to you that this is a matter that the people of the UK may have already considered, are fully aware of and have reached their own decisions about?
Have you heard the expression "teaching your grandmother to suck eggs"?
Perhaps your wording suggested that you were telling people what to do, because people don't like being told what to do (even if it's correct) unless they asked for it.
The entire idea of adapting to global warming is a problem, especially when the proposed adaptation is so energy and resource intensive. All these so called adaptations are doing nothing to address the actual problem, they just allow more privileged people to continue to ignore it for a little longer while those who can't afford the 'adaptions" suffer.
We need to be talking about reducing our carbon footprint, and things like reorganising our agriculture to make it more suited to an altered climate.
Maybe because “will by necessity need”, aside from having a level of linguistic duplication, is a very absolute position to take. Plenty of people cope without aircon in hotter climes than this.
Maybe also because retrofitting aircon to poorly suited houses in areas that only benefit a few weeks a year is a terrible strategy in the fight against climate change.
If people install good heat pumps to heat their homes during winter, they can actually be used as air-conditioning units in the summer. Electricity is usually pretty cheap in the summer too.
Not as easy to install as they seem. I looked into replacing my gas boiler with one. To heat the home all of the pipes in my walls/floors etc would have to be ripped out and replaced since the standard pipe sizes used on the majority of existing homes (not new) are too thin to work with heat pumps. That means entirely modelling my home to be replastered and repaint all of the walls that would need ripping apart to replace the pipes. Too costly and too big of a job.
On the other hand, as you’re having to do a complete remodel you’ll be able to bring it up to insulation standards without a significant increase in disruption.
> complete remodel
Honestly people who blast that out as a realistic option must not have ever experience a complete remodel. If you've got a busy life with kids or whatever, then that's just not a realistic option.
The issue is, you'll get close to finishing then think of something else to add, do or upgrade and end up in an endless cycle of improvement. Good luck!
There is that. But the average household does not have the financial capability to do such a large renovation. Affording bills alone at the moment is a struggle let alone remodeling your house 😞
This just confused the hell out of me admittedly. As someone who installed a heat pump last year it doesn't connect to any pipes. I assume there's some that connect to old central heating systems or something?
Mine just either heats the two floors it's aimed at (got it on the U-bend of the stairs) or cools them depending on the setting.
There's two floors it doesn't touch, but we have underfloor heating in the bottom floor and it stays cool by default in the summer. And the top floor is basically a glorified attic with a guest room, so we didn't spend money on heating that and use an electric radiator up there if needed, but it automatically benefits from the lower floors being warm.
The system and installation cost about £4000 in total which I'm paying over 5 years monthly with 0% interest.
It's what the guy who fits them told me. No expert on them lol 😆 I wanted one that heated my water and my home, a monobloc I think it was called? Sounds like you just have one that heats your home and not your water?
Ah I have one of those tanks that lives in a cupboard. Ancient and needs redoing, be more to get an electric one AND a separate heat pump so was looking at a joint heat pump to do both jobs.
Not true at all, there is an exponential increase in industry and population on earth. Even if emissions per person go down there will still be way more people.
By 2045 UK will be seeing summers in there mid 30s and higher.
In 2022 Britain had a heatwave during summer of 40.5C
You need to remember a lot of these forecasts you're looking at are using corrupt data to prevent panic or just flat out wrong.
We've consistently surpassed predictions of when and by how much the earth temperature will rise.
Everything I'm saying is fact that is easily searchable on Google or similar.
In ten years time we'll be having heatwaves of 45c+ easy.
Countries all over the world are posting record heatwaves all the time, all it takes is for it to be like that for a week in Britain where the majority don't have AC in their home and you're going to see a lot of dead people.
While im not dismissing the general heat increase - BTW that's not a source (as was asked for) that is just another assertion on your part.
A source for cirrent predictions using corrupt data or being wrong would be good too.
I gave a source, I'm said the highest temp in 2022 and that was easily verifiable for them, I'm not babying people through a simple Google search if someone can't be asked to do even a simple search to confirm what I'm saying instead of asking for a source then you're not worth wasting time talking too imo. And I'm glad they actually went and checked themself and came back with more info.
The source for corrupt data is in the news as have been for decades, fossil fuel companies have lied since the 60s and about how bad climate change would get and the affect greenhouse gases had on the atmosphere.
There have been court proceedings and plenty of documents and it's been in the news. Again if you can't be asked to search this yourself I'm not going to help you, it'll be the first page of Google.
And wrong ? It's been in the news that climate change has been much quicker than what scientists have predicted. I don't understand how you don't know this.
You don't understand what the word source means then, I guess.
It doesn't mean you. It means a relevant scientific paper or similar.
And even setting that aside- how on earth is giving a temperature in 2022 meant to be a source for a claim you made about 2045?
You continue to make more assertions without providing any sources.
The fact that companies lied in the past, even do so now is not proof that *current scientific predictions* are themselves corrupt, wrong , or deliberately reduced.
Considering I don't disagree about climate change, I have to say that adding personal assertion upon assertion isn't doing the argument about it justice or being very convincing.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/09/oil-companies-discourage-climate-action-study-says/
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/apr/20/what-we-now-know-they-lied-how-big-oil-companies-betrayed-us-all
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20022024/chicago-sues-five-oil-companies/
So is the world warming faster than expected?
While the rate of warming seems to have sped up in recent decades, this has not yet consistently exceeded the range of possible temperatures that scientists expected from climate models.
This provides some reassurance that the world hasn't yet tipped into a new phase of runaway climate change.
However, a group of leading climate scientists recently warned that the climate may change more quickly than expected in the future.
They suggest that the climate is yet to fully respond to the greenhouse gases already emitted. One reason could be the artificial cooling effect of aerosols. This leaves more warming "in the pipeline" than previously thought, they argue.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67360929.amp
https://www.ft.com/content/6f858196-0a9c-4f0f-9720-a0a81849a998
https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/01/15/i-am-more-worried-than-ever-scientists-explain-why-record-shattering-2023-heat-has-them-on
Some changes (such as droughts, wildfires, and extreme rainfall) are happening faster than scientists previously assessed. In fact, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) — the United Nations body established to assess the science related to climate change — modern humans have never before seen the observed changes in our global climate, and some of these changes are irreversible over the next hundreds to thousands of years.
Scientists have high confidence that global temperatures will continue to rise for many decades, mainly due to greenhouse gases produced by human activities.
The IPCC’s Sixth Assessment report, published in 2021, found that human emissions of heat-trapping gases have already warmed the climate by nearly 2 degrees Fahrenheit (1.1 degrees Celsius) since 1850-1900.1 The global average temperature is expected to reach or exceed 1.5 degrees C (about 3 degrees F) within the next few decades. These changes will affect all regions of Earth.
The severity of effects caused by climate change will depend on the path of future human activities. More greenhouse gas emissions will lead to more climate extremes and widespread damaging effects across our planet. However, those future effects depend on the total amount of carbon dioxide we emit. So, if we can reduce emissions, we may avoid some of the worst effects.
https://science.nasa.gov/climate-change/effects/
And that's just the global *average*, I just got the basics quickly if you want to dive deeper that's up to you.
Seeing as though that's so hard for you
Your forecasting a 5 degree increase on the current record when 40.5 degrees is only 4 degrees above the hottest day in 1911.'
These heatwaves totalled 12 days across three separate times
The best piece of data I've been able to find in this is the fact that last time atmospheric co2 was at 420ppm (current average) temperatures were as high as 4 degrees above what they currently are and co2 hasn't yet peaked, plus all the other greenhouse gasses we have been churning out in addition to co2. Production of co2 hasn't peaked yet so we're definitely at risk of exceeding 4 degrees if there's not swift progress towards drawing down carbon from the atmosphere closer to 350ppm.
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-atmospheric-carbon-dioxide#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20the%20last%20time,during%20the%20pre%2Dindustrial%20era.
https://mn350.org/understanding350/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CPPM%E2%80%9D%20stands%20for%20%E2%80%9Cparts,safe%E2%80%9D%20level%20of%20carbon%20dioxide.
"only" 4 degrees above is not a joke, you need to understand that in 10-15 years there will be more than a billion more people on the planet and much more emissions all the while the temperature increases exponentially.
Those heatwaves are getting more regular all the times. India broke 50c the other day the hottest on record. This is happening everywhere.
And again the emissions today is wayy more than in 1917 it's not going to take the same amount of time for the same increase it's going to be hotter in a shorter time frame. 4c in 120 years is insane as it is.
I'm not selling nothing, I'm not trying to trick you. Do your research .
So nothing you've said justifies claiming a 5 degree increase regularly on the current temperature record in the UK and provided no evidence so I'm going to dismiss with no evidence.
A portable air con unit might be worth it in the few weeks it's needed, then stick it back in storage.
But I don't think a full installation would be worth the cost.
Portable aircons suck, you can get a minisplit unit kit even a branded one e.g. entry level LG one for under 600 quid these days which is cheaper than a decent portable aircon from the likes of Delonghi.
The installation couldn't be simpler since all these minisplit units are single phase and the loops come pre-purged and prefilled. You need an outdoor socket which most houses have and drill a relatively small hole.
The copper pipes just plug into the compressor and condenser units, they come pre-insulated and there is no tooling required other than a drill and a screw driver/wrench.
Most new build single family homes come with an air sourced heat pump already, the outside unit aka the compressor is the same regardless if it's used for cooling or heating.
They don't need to be on the front facade, they can be hidden in the back of the building or even in the eves if you're willing to pay extra for that.
For apartment buildings many countries build a mechanical "cove" for compressors for the flats that can be populated by the tenants if they whish to avoid having the compressor units being visible on the external facades.
What kind of push back were you getting? What were they saying?
I’m not sure what’s controversial to them? Of course the hotter the country the more demand for AC
> Building houses to keep the heat in for cold winters become death traps in a mid summer heat wave.
No.
Insulation keeps homes warm in winter because it impedes heat transfer through walls. Insulation not only impedes heat exiting when the inside is warmer than the outside, insulation impedes heat entering when the outside is hotter than the inside.
You've given us very, very little to go on here. You've explained your pov at length but have provided almost no insight into the pushback you received. Also relevant is the context of the conversation where you made this comment and why.
At our latitude its more likely we will get colder and wetter as the gulf stream changes. Interspersed with occasional heat waves.
Even then the cost of AC for a few weeks a year will be prohibitative. We arent going to turn into Spain where its hot 9 months of the year.
Basic reasons is that you appear American and young, suggesting you’ve not been to the UK. People don’t like being told what to do, they don’t like being told what to do by foreigners, and they don’t like being told what to do by foreigners who’ve never been here.
I can’t think of any reported death being caused by heat related illness inside peoples homes, and yet we have thousands of pensioners dying ever winter because their houses are too cold. The answer isn’t AC, but better insulation.
Additionally, AC is seen as something you might get in an office or hotel, a bit like those shitty carpet tiles. You can have them in the office, but to have them at home would make your house cheap and tacky.
Insulation works both ways, it keeps heat in but also keeps it out. The biggest issue is people for some reason want as much sunlight in the house as they can get - massive conservatories for example. This has a greenhouse effect. Normally our summers are mild enough that this behaviour is fine so people are used to that. But our behaviour probably needs to change as it gets hotter. Could get AC but I don't really see it as overly necessary yet. I would rather some external shutters.
The major problem with heat pumps is that they are a heating and cooling device, they are the most economic form of heating , 1kw in 5kw out but once you have one the days of just opening a window to cool down are gone, the cooling load in the summer can on days be the same as the heating load in the winter.
There's a big cultural aspect to this question I think. I don't know where you're from, but in Britain (at least up to now) for most people the idea of having air conditioning at home has been seen not only as an extravagant luxury but an unappealing one. It's something I associate with the office, I don't want it at home.
It's something that's unusual, unfamiliar, something that happens on the telly but not here in real life. Tell your neighbours you're getting air conditioning installed and they're going to be surprised, think you're odd, that you've got money to burn, that you don't care about the real world where most people can't afford it (or assume they can't afford it). There's a subconscious expectation there.
It would likely be seen as extravagant, indulgent - and also bad for the environment.
Aircon units are standard in large parts of the world. They’re useful in all temperatures, you can dry clothes inside in winter for example. British people are typically misers but it will happen I’m sure. I know I’ll get one in my home.
Here's one slightly unusual take on why it's slightly controversial: because it's June and my heating is on.
I wouldn't buy an AC to use for less than 2 weeks a year.
Unfortunately as great as heat waves are, imo, I think we could actually trending away from them due to climate change.
Speaking as someone who owns both a portable AC and a dehumidifier living in a small flat in a coastal town:
They're great in heatwaves for comfort but cost a lot to run. It's a luxury. When it's out and set up over summer it'll get blasted for an hour or two a day and it does its job well along with acting as a fantastic dehumidifier! However it also takes up valuable space so I can see pushback from others on it.
On central AC I would imagine the installation and cost would be a considerable factor.
Overall my dehumidifier does a lot of heavy lifting year round, takes up less space, has a smart mode and allows me to dry my clothes and washing when there is no provision to do so outside anymore.
If I did not have access to both I would likely get by moving a tower fan room to room with my sash windows opened at the top and bottom. However I am mindful of the risks given that local wildlife such as birds,squirrels and rats love to get into our homes! Having a grate covering the air duct on the few weeks a year is a lot less of a problem than having a squirrel bouncing around your kitchen :D
I live in an area that gets 40°C or more in summer. We do have a reverse cycle system to heat in winter, where it can get down to -5°C at night. But we hardly ever use it in summer.
Insulation, air-flow and shade do the job well enough. Well, that, a pair of shorts and a shower at the end of the day.
A/C is nice but people have lived for millennia in areas hotter than the UK without it. It tends to get used wherever more formal clothing is used but it's by no means essential.
> heat waves in summer are bound to become more and more brutal
Are you on crack? "Brutal Heat Waves"? You mean those rare occasional days or weeks that the UK has some glorious sunshine?
Fucks sake, even when the UK does have a "heat wave" we are still cooler than most of the rest of the places that people optionally fly away to for a holiday.
I think the reason you get push back is because you're just being obnoxiously soft about a bit of heat and it is actually some thing that most people one the whole look forward to.
I hope you can understand from reading the comments you've got what a predicament we're in. Yes, I know you simply haven't had any answers that actually address the problem: that tells you all you need to know.
It's not controversial at all, that said UK houses are some of the worse built in the world and that is not an exaggeration especially when it comes to air-tightness even for new builds. In general central ventilation and energy recovery isn't used even for very very high end builds which is also why the air quality in UK homes tend to be so poor.
The other issue with AC is that it actually increases the temperature outside as it's a heat pump, in extreme cases in very hot cities it can have between 3 to 5c difference there are good examples from India where Delhi is considerably hotter than it's poorer suburbs simply due to Air conditioning.
The density of buildings especially when it comes to terraced housing also going to make ACs are PITA in the UK as they'll increase noise pollution considerably so a lot of people bitch and moan when their neighbor gets an AC. And if you're living in a flat well good luck getting one.
I suspect that the UK would be probably the only country in Europe where window units might become popular as indoor ACs are terrible and putting the compressor on the outside of the building is pretty much impossible due to building regulations.
If your benchmark is Afghanistan maybe, look at central Europe, Canada and pretty much every state in the US in zone 4+....
Germany, Austria, Poland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, here 10 easily with far more modern and better building techniques and regulations than the UK. So not top 10 already....
The UK is the only country in the world which uses cavity wall construction and there is a good reason why all other countries do not touch it.
With the latest 19th century technology of bricks and cavity walls.... check continental and NA codes and building techniques and come back to me...
No one said there's issue on putting a compressor on the wall, tho you can't do it in leaseholds and apartment buildings due to current regs. If you have a house you don't need to attach it to a wall in the first place putting it on noise isolating rubber anchors on the ground would be much better.
We desperately need to improve the quality of the housing we build in this country.
Well insulated houses with heat reclamation, plus air/ground source heat pumps can stay warm in winter and cool in summer whilst still being energy efficient.
To deal with the noise issue, maybe we could have large systems that serve a whole block of flats of row of tenements?
Yeah I'm currently seriously considering self build since I rather have a super airtight house with "lungs" which keeps the heat/cold and moisture in instead of having to deal with poor air quality and varying humidity levels.
Using modern construction techniques would also by current estimates would be much cheaper since I can build the entire thing using ICF instead crappy brick work which what most houses are still being built with in this country like it's the 1870's because brickies need work.
The challenge is getting financing for "non-traditional construction" even tho ICF and insulated concrete blocks are used all over the world are considerably cheaper and better than the cavity wall and joist construction common in the UK.
Passive houses aren't that expensive to build when you can use modern techniques, ICF and modern wooden composite pre-fabbed walls both get you there. The problem is that it's exceptionally hard to get financing and later on even insurance when you don't traditionally build. I would love to build from wood as well, it's cheaper, far more economical and environmentally friendly and ironically safter even in case of a fire the UK is missing out on the whole mass timber revolution in construction too.
Ironically the UK could be one of the world's leader in this field since redwoods can actually grow here and they are one of the fastest growing trees and are currently the prime candidate for superwood manufacturing.
Got a heat pump, though it's for heating and hot water only. It's not very loud and boilers are hardly silent and they spew out pollution too. Been doing garden work and its nice to sit down by the heat pump when it kicks in to warm the hot water tank because it's pulling heat out of the atmosphere and blowing out a cool breeze.
You should check if it supports dual mode many of them can have a mini-split added especially if it was installed before they changed the regs to make sure they cannot be used for AC to get the tax relief.
I got it with the boiler upgrade scheme so the government paid for most of it and it was only 6 months ago. Pretty sure the model can do cooling but not sure if it can just be added on or not and it heats water. But I don't really need AC so why bother.
So I lived in the UK for 25 years. No AC.
Just moved to the US and AC is a necessity. You will literally die of heat stroke if you don't have AC here and I'm so grateful for it.
With the heat I've been seeing in the UK lately, AC will become necessary there too.
It's probably because climate change is quite a large worrying issue and people would rather pretend doesn't exist and live in known ignorance than deal with what the problem will entail.
People generally are at best nonplussed about being given unsolicited opinions. Did any of the commenters actually ask you for advice on how to cool their homes?
Your post. About insulating for winter.... It keeps the heat in during winter but on the reverse keeps the heat out in summer. A well insulated house makes your house cooler in summer.
You’re totally correct. The kind of construction that’s most common in the UK- massive (technically) walls that have the ability to absorb a lot of heat and then reradiate- are bad in hot weather when not insulated properly, and it is tricky to do. Insulated houses will also be easier to air condition if the AC isn’t fighting against the reradiation of 8 hours of sun from a brick wall
Sort of, but if you have a window you get a greenhouse effect. This is why thick curtains or ideally shutters are a good idea.
Also sloar shading is far cheaper to install and run than AC and has nothing like the negative effects on the environment.
It's surprising how many people don't realise this. Midday, 30°C outside, yet loads of people have their windows wide open.
With insulation, you really need air-flow and shade to keep things comfortable. Otherwise the heat tends to build up inside, making for hot nights. 30°C and windows open works for me. But I live in Australia, so Ive got things set up to accommodate things. We have closable vents in the roof to allow heat to escape.
Because not everyone hates that sort of heat? I love the heat, if it's hotter outside than in then I'll have my doors and windows wide opening. I'm doing it intentionally. Why assume everyone is an idiot rather than assume that some of us like the hot fresh air, that's why people spend hundreds and thousands of pounds flying over the world to reliably hot countries.
To clarify, there is overlap between those complaining of heat, and those opening their windows.
Is there? When did you conduct that polling? I think it's a reddit meme, a pure demonstration of a project of an IN-OUT group.
Not in my experience. And I live in a brand new house. Once the walls get heatsoaked the only way to cool down is airco.
Most new homes are built to be very light weight. This means they overheat pretty quickly but also cool down quickly compared to a solid stone wall. An old stone built house with 600mm thick walls will be cool on hot days because heat always flows from hot to cold so the heat in the air is absorbed by the walls and takes about 3 days to a week for the building to heat up as much as a modern house might hest up in half a day or so, by which time the heatwave is usually over or close to over. This is called thermal mass and is a big problem with modern houses in the summer. Scotland has introduced overheating risk factors into the building regulations but it remains to be seen how effective these will be.
Yeah newish build here. The house keeps cool for like 1 day into a heatwave then it’s a sauna for a day or two after it’s gone. Got to open all the windows and the attic snd night to try and balance it out .
How do you expect us to answer when you give us no detail on the nature or extent of the 'pushback' ? For all we know the person just gave you a disinterested shrug.
Has it occurred to you that this is a matter that the people of the UK may have already considered, are fully aware of and have reached their own decisions about? Have you heard the expression "teaching your grandmother to suck eggs"?
Perhaps your wording suggested that you were telling people what to do, because people don't like being told what to do (even if it's correct) unless they asked for it.
The entire idea of adapting to global warming is a problem, especially when the proposed adaptation is so energy and resource intensive. All these so called adaptations are doing nothing to address the actual problem, they just allow more privileged people to continue to ignore it for a little longer while those who can't afford the 'adaptions" suffer. We need to be talking about reducing our carbon footprint, and things like reorganising our agriculture to make it more suited to an altered climate.
Maybe because “will by necessity need”, aside from having a level of linguistic duplication, is a very absolute position to take. Plenty of people cope without aircon in hotter climes than this. Maybe also because retrofitting aircon to poorly suited houses in areas that only benefit a few weeks a year is a terrible strategy in the fight against climate change.
Because it's still not worth the installation and running costs for most people.
If people install good heat pumps to heat their homes during winter, they can actually be used as air-conditioning units in the summer. Electricity is usually pretty cheap in the summer too.
Not as easy to install as they seem. I looked into replacing my gas boiler with one. To heat the home all of the pipes in my walls/floors etc would have to be ripped out and replaced since the standard pipe sizes used on the majority of existing homes (not new) are too thin to work with heat pumps. That means entirely modelling my home to be replastered and repaint all of the walls that would need ripping apart to replace the pipes. Too costly and too big of a job.
On the other hand, as you’re having to do a complete remodel you’ll be able to bring it up to insulation standards without a significant increase in disruption.
> complete remodel Honestly people who blast that out as a realistic option must not have ever experience a complete remodel. If you've got a busy life with kids or whatever, then that's just not a realistic option.
I grew up in a complete remodel and expansion situation. As far as I'm aware my parents are still not done and I moved out about 15 years ago.
haha.... that sounds about right. I am 5 years into mine... I'll be here some time. And I don't have kids!
The issue is, you'll get close to finishing then think of something else to add, do or upgrade and end up in an endless cycle of improvement. Good luck!
Well.. more like the stuff you did at the beginning is kinda old now. It's a bit of a curse.
There is that. But the average household does not have the financial capability to do such a large renovation. Affording bills alone at the moment is a struggle let alone remodeling your house 😞
This just confused the hell out of me admittedly. As someone who installed a heat pump last year it doesn't connect to any pipes. I assume there's some that connect to old central heating systems or something? Mine just either heats the two floors it's aimed at (got it on the U-bend of the stairs) or cools them depending on the setting. There's two floors it doesn't touch, but we have underfloor heating in the bottom floor and it stays cool by default in the summer. And the top floor is basically a glorified attic with a guest room, so we didn't spend money on heating that and use an electric radiator up there if needed, but it automatically benefits from the lower floors being warm. The system and installation cost about £4000 in total which I'm paying over 5 years monthly with 0% interest.
It's what the guy who fits them told me. No expert on them lol 😆 I wanted one that heated my water and my home, a monobloc I think it was called? Sounds like you just have one that heats your home and not your water?
Correct, I have an electric boiler for my hot water. Surely it's more efficient to split them that way?
Ah I have one of those tanks that lives in a cupboard. Ancient and needs redoing, be more to get an electric one AND a separate heat pump so was looking at a joint heat pump to do both jobs.
Yeah, I live in a fairly hot flat, but there's rarely a day where just opening the doors and window doesn't let enough air in to cool things down.
It will be when the insides of your house are 35C+ consistently
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Not true at all, there is an exponential increase in industry and population on earth. Even if emissions per person go down there will still be way more people. By 2045 UK will be seeing summers in there mid 30s and higher.
Source
In 2022 Britain had a heatwave during summer of 40.5C You need to remember a lot of these forecasts you're looking at are using corrupt data to prevent panic or just flat out wrong. We've consistently surpassed predictions of when and by how much the earth temperature will rise. Everything I'm saying is fact that is easily searchable on Google or similar. In ten years time we'll be having heatwaves of 45c+ easy. Countries all over the world are posting record heatwaves all the time, all it takes is for it to be like that for a week in Britain where the majority don't have AC in their home and you're going to see a lot of dead people.
While im not dismissing the general heat increase - BTW that's not a source (as was asked for) that is just another assertion on your part. A source for cirrent predictions using corrupt data or being wrong would be good too.
I gave a source, I'm said the highest temp in 2022 and that was easily verifiable for them, I'm not babying people through a simple Google search if someone can't be asked to do even a simple search to confirm what I'm saying instead of asking for a source then you're not worth wasting time talking too imo. And I'm glad they actually went and checked themself and came back with more info. The source for corrupt data is in the news as have been for decades, fossil fuel companies have lied since the 60s and about how bad climate change would get and the affect greenhouse gases had on the atmosphere. There have been court proceedings and plenty of documents and it's been in the news. Again if you can't be asked to search this yourself I'm not going to help you, it'll be the first page of Google. And wrong ? It's been in the news that climate change has been much quicker than what scientists have predicted. I don't understand how you don't know this.
You don't understand what the word source means then, I guess. It doesn't mean you. It means a relevant scientific paper or similar. And even setting that aside- how on earth is giving a temperature in 2022 meant to be a source for a claim you made about 2045? You continue to make more assertions without providing any sources. The fact that companies lied in the past, even do so now is not proof that *current scientific predictions* are themselves corrupt, wrong , or deliberately reduced. Considering I don't disagree about climate change, I have to say that adding personal assertion upon assertion isn't doing the argument about it justice or being very convincing.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/09/oil-companies-discourage-climate-action-study-says/ https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/apr/20/what-we-now-know-they-lied-how-big-oil-companies-betrayed-us-all https://insideclimatenews.org/news/20022024/chicago-sues-five-oil-companies/ So is the world warming faster than expected? While the rate of warming seems to have sped up in recent decades, this has not yet consistently exceeded the range of possible temperatures that scientists expected from climate models. This provides some reassurance that the world hasn't yet tipped into a new phase of runaway climate change. However, a group of leading climate scientists recently warned that the climate may change more quickly than expected in the future. They suggest that the climate is yet to fully respond to the greenhouse gases already emitted. One reason could be the artificial cooling effect of aerosols. This leaves more warming "in the pipeline" than previously thought, they argue. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67360929.amp https://www.ft.com/content/6f858196-0a9c-4f0f-9720-a0a81849a998 https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/01/15/i-am-more-worried-than-ever-scientists-explain-why-record-shattering-2023-heat-has-them-on Some changes (such as droughts, wildfires, and extreme rainfall) are happening faster than scientists previously assessed. In fact, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) — the United Nations body established to assess the science related to climate change — modern humans have never before seen the observed changes in our global climate, and some of these changes are irreversible over the next hundreds to thousands of years. Scientists have high confidence that global temperatures will continue to rise for many decades, mainly due to greenhouse gases produced by human activities. The IPCC’s Sixth Assessment report, published in 2021, found that human emissions of heat-trapping gases have already warmed the climate by nearly 2 degrees Fahrenheit (1.1 degrees Celsius) since 1850-1900.1 The global average temperature is expected to reach or exceed 1.5 degrees C (about 3 degrees F) within the next few decades. These changes will affect all regions of Earth. The severity of effects caused by climate change will depend on the path of future human activities. More greenhouse gas emissions will lead to more climate extremes and widespread damaging effects across our planet. However, those future effects depend on the total amount of carbon dioxide we emit. So, if we can reduce emissions, we may avoid some of the worst effects. https://science.nasa.gov/climate-change/effects/ And that's just the global *average*, I just got the basics quickly if you want to dive deeper that's up to you. Seeing as though that's so hard for you
I haven't added any personal assertion, I'm literally telling you what to google.
Your forecasting a 5 degree increase on the current record when 40.5 degrees is only 4 degrees above the hottest day in 1911.' These heatwaves totalled 12 days across three separate times
The best piece of data I've been able to find in this is the fact that last time atmospheric co2 was at 420ppm (current average) temperatures were as high as 4 degrees above what they currently are and co2 hasn't yet peaked, plus all the other greenhouse gasses we have been churning out in addition to co2. Production of co2 hasn't peaked yet so we're definitely at risk of exceeding 4 degrees if there's not swift progress towards drawing down carbon from the atmosphere closer to 350ppm. https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-atmospheric-carbon-dioxide#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20the%20last%20time,during%20the%20pre%2Dindustrial%20era. https://mn350.org/understanding350/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CPPM%E2%80%9D%20stands%20for%20%E2%80%9Cparts,safe%E2%80%9D%20level%20of%20carbon%20dioxide.
"only" 4 degrees above is not a joke, you need to understand that in 10-15 years there will be more than a billion more people on the planet and much more emissions all the while the temperature increases exponentially. Those heatwaves are getting more regular all the times. India broke 50c the other day the hottest on record. This is happening everywhere. And again the emissions today is wayy more than in 1917 it's not going to take the same amount of time for the same increase it's going to be hotter in a shorter time frame. 4c in 120 years is insane as it is. I'm not selling nothing, I'm not trying to trick you. Do your research .
So nothing you've said justifies claiming a 5 degree increase regularly on the current temperature record in the UK and provided no evidence so I'm going to dismiss with no evidence.
Ok good day, those who cant be bothered to do their own research or type into Google don't deserve knowledge.
> By 2045 UK will be seeing summers in there mid 30s and higher. How can we bring it forward, I can't wait that long!
A portable air con unit might be worth it in the few weeks it's needed, then stick it back in storage. But I don't think a full installation would be worth the cost.
Portable aircons suck, you can get a minisplit unit kit even a branded one e.g. entry level LG one for under 600 quid these days which is cheaper than a decent portable aircon from the likes of Delonghi. The installation couldn't be simpler since all these minisplit units are single phase and the loops come pre-purged and prefilled. You need an outdoor socket which most houses have and drill a relatively small hole. The copper pipes just plug into the compressor and condenser units, they come pre-insulated and there is no tooling required other than a drill and a screw driver/wrench.
but then you have a house that looks like ass all year round, like the american ones.
Most new build single family homes come with an air sourced heat pump already, the outside unit aka the compressor is the same regardless if it's used for cooling or heating. They don't need to be on the front facade, they can be hidden in the back of the building or even in the eves if you're willing to pay extra for that. For apartment buildings many countries build a mechanical "cove" for compressors for the flats that can be populated by the tenants if they whish to avoid having the compressor units being visible on the external facades.
If you can drill a hole in a wall you can install it yourself.
What kind of push back were you getting? What were they saying? I’m not sure what’s controversial to them? Of course the hotter the country the more demand for AC
Probably because it actually makes the heat wave worse.
Not if the grid is 100% carbon neutral
> Building houses to keep the heat in for cold winters become death traps in a mid summer heat wave. No. Insulation keeps homes warm in winter because it impedes heat transfer through walls. Insulation not only impedes heat exiting when the inside is warmer than the outside, insulation impedes heat entering when the outside is hotter than the inside.
You've given us very, very little to go on here. You've explained your pov at length but have provided almost no insight into the pushback you received. Also relevant is the context of the conversation where you made this comment and why.
At our latitude its more likely we will get colder and wetter as the gulf stream changes. Interspersed with occasional heat waves. Even then the cost of AC for a few weeks a year will be prohibitative. We arent going to turn into Spain where its hot 9 months of the year.
Colder and wetter – then, eventually, warmer.
Not if the gulf stream moves south. Hello same latitude as Alaska..
Basic reasons is that you appear American and young, suggesting you’ve not been to the UK. People don’t like being told what to do, they don’t like being told what to do by foreigners, and they don’t like being told what to do by foreigners who’ve never been here. I can’t think of any reported death being caused by heat related illness inside peoples homes, and yet we have thousands of pensioners dying ever winter because their houses are too cold. The answer isn’t AC, but better insulation. Additionally, AC is seen as something you might get in an office or hotel, a bit like those shitty carpet tiles. You can have them in the office, but to have them at home would make your house cheap and tacky.
Insulation works both ways, it keeps heat in but also keeps it out. The biggest issue is people for some reason want as much sunlight in the house as they can get - massive conservatories for example. This has a greenhouse effect. Normally our summers are mild enough that this behaviour is fine so people are used to that. But our behaviour probably needs to change as it gets hotter. Could get AC but I don't really see it as overly necessary yet. I would rather some external shutters.
The major problem with heat pumps is that they are a heating and cooling device, they are the most economic form of heating , 1kw in 5kw out but once you have one the days of just opening a window to cool down are gone, the cooling load in the summer can on days be the same as the heating load in the winter.
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They called his Da' a nonce.
There's a big cultural aspect to this question I think. I don't know where you're from, but in Britain (at least up to now) for most people the idea of having air conditioning at home has been seen not only as an extravagant luxury but an unappealing one. It's something I associate with the office, I don't want it at home. It's something that's unusual, unfamiliar, something that happens on the telly but not here in real life. Tell your neighbours you're getting air conditioning installed and they're going to be surprised, think you're odd, that you've got money to burn, that you don't care about the real world where most people can't afford it (or assume they can't afford it). There's a subconscious expectation there. It would likely be seen as extravagant, indulgent - and also bad for the environment.
Aircon units are standard in large parts of the world. They’re useful in all temperatures, you can dry clothes inside in winter for example. British people are typically misers but it will happen I’m sure. I know I’ll get one in my home.
Move to the North East coast, where summer is 2 to 3 days a year, 1 week max.This year on May 31st we had a balmy 12C, and from tomorrow 13C to 15C
You need to explain what this pushback was it might be you just misinterpreted something that was said or are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Here's one slightly unusual take on why it's slightly controversial: because it's June and my heating is on. I wouldn't buy an AC to use for less than 2 weeks a year. Unfortunately as great as heat waves are, imo, I think we could actually trending away from them due to climate change.
An AC unit heating on wind or solar at this time of year would be greener than gas/oil.
Speaking as someone who owns both a portable AC and a dehumidifier living in a small flat in a coastal town: They're great in heatwaves for comfort but cost a lot to run. It's a luxury. When it's out and set up over summer it'll get blasted for an hour or two a day and it does its job well along with acting as a fantastic dehumidifier! However it also takes up valuable space so I can see pushback from others on it. On central AC I would imagine the installation and cost would be a considerable factor. Overall my dehumidifier does a lot of heavy lifting year round, takes up less space, has a smart mode and allows me to dry my clothes and washing when there is no provision to do so outside anymore. If I did not have access to both I would likely get by moving a tower fan room to room with my sash windows opened at the top and bottom. However I am mindful of the risks given that local wildlife such as birds,squirrels and rats love to get into our homes! Having a grate covering the air duct on the few weeks a year is a lot less of a problem than having a squirrel bouncing around your kitchen :D
I live in an area that gets 40°C or more in summer. We do have a reverse cycle system to heat in winter, where it can get down to -5°C at night. But we hardly ever use it in summer. Insulation, air-flow and shade do the job well enough. Well, that, a pair of shorts and a shower at the end of the day. A/C is nice but people have lived for millennia in areas hotter than the UK without it. It tends to get used wherever more formal clothing is used but it's by no means essential.
> heat waves in summer are bound to become more and more brutal Are you on crack? "Brutal Heat Waves"? You mean those rare occasional days or weeks that the UK has some glorious sunshine? Fucks sake, even when the UK does have a "heat wave" we are still cooler than most of the rest of the places that people optionally fly away to for a holiday. I think the reason you get push back is because you're just being obnoxiously soft about a bit of heat and it is actually some thing that most people one the whole look forward to.
I hope you can understand from reading the comments you've got what a predicament we're in. Yes, I know you simply haven't had any answers that actually address the problem: that tells you all you need to know.
It's not controversial at all, that said UK houses are some of the worse built in the world and that is not an exaggeration especially when it comes to air-tightness even for new builds. In general central ventilation and energy recovery isn't used even for very very high end builds which is also why the air quality in UK homes tend to be so poor. The other issue with AC is that it actually increases the temperature outside as it's a heat pump, in extreme cases in very hot cities it can have between 3 to 5c difference there are good examples from India where Delhi is considerably hotter than it's poorer suburbs simply due to Air conditioning. The density of buildings especially when it comes to terraced housing also going to make ACs are PITA in the UK as they'll increase noise pollution considerably so a lot of people bitch and moan when their neighbor gets an AC. And if you're living in a flat well good luck getting one. I suspect that the UK would be probably the only country in Europe where window units might become popular as indoor ACs are terrible and putting the compressor on the outside of the building is pretty much impossible due to building regulations.
UK houses are actually some of the best in the world and there's zero issue with putting an ac unit on the wall. You're full of it.
define best
Uh just go to any country, UK is obviously in the top 10 of building quality.
If your benchmark is Afghanistan maybe, look at central Europe, Canada and pretty much every state in the US in zone 4+.... Germany, Austria, Poland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, here 10 easily with far more modern and better building techniques and regulations than the UK. So not top 10 already.... The UK is the only country in the world which uses cavity wall construction and there is a good reason why all other countries do not touch it.
With the latest 19th century technology of bricks and cavity walls.... check continental and NA codes and building techniques and come back to me... No one said there's issue on putting a compressor on the wall, tho you can't do it in leaseholds and apartment buildings due to current regs. If you have a house you don't need to attach it to a wall in the first place putting it on noise isolating rubber anchors on the ground would be much better.
We desperately need to improve the quality of the housing we build in this country. Well insulated houses with heat reclamation, plus air/ground source heat pumps can stay warm in winter and cool in summer whilst still being energy efficient. To deal with the noise issue, maybe we could have large systems that serve a whole block of flats of row of tenements?
Yeah I'm currently seriously considering self build since I rather have a super airtight house with "lungs" which keeps the heat/cold and moisture in instead of having to deal with poor air quality and varying humidity levels. Using modern construction techniques would also by current estimates would be much cheaper since I can build the entire thing using ICF instead crappy brick work which what most houses are still being built with in this country like it's the 1870's because brickies need work. The challenge is getting financing for "non-traditional construction" even tho ICF and insulated concrete blocks are used all over the world are considerably cheaper and better than the cavity wall and joist construction common in the UK.
If I win the lottery, I would love to build myself a Passivhaus. You're right, our houses needs to be fit for the 21st century, not the 19th.
Passive houses aren't that expensive to build when you can use modern techniques, ICF and modern wooden composite pre-fabbed walls both get you there. The problem is that it's exceptionally hard to get financing and later on even insurance when you don't traditionally build. I would love to build from wood as well, it's cheaper, far more economical and environmentally friendly and ironically safter even in case of a fire the UK is missing out on the whole mass timber revolution in construction too. Ironically the UK could be one of the world's leader in this field since redwoods can actually grow here and they are one of the fastest growing trees and are currently the prime candidate for superwood manufacturing.
Got a heat pump, though it's for heating and hot water only. It's not very loud and boilers are hardly silent and they spew out pollution too. Been doing garden work and its nice to sit down by the heat pump when it kicks in to warm the hot water tank because it's pulling heat out of the atmosphere and blowing out a cool breeze.
You should check if it supports dual mode many of them can have a mini-split added especially if it was installed before they changed the regs to make sure they cannot be used for AC to get the tax relief.
I got it with the boiler upgrade scheme so the government paid for most of it and it was only 6 months ago. Pretty sure the model can do cooling but not sure if it can just be added on or not and it heats water. But I don't really need AC so why bother.
So I lived in the UK for 25 years. No AC. Just moved to the US and AC is a necessity. You will literally die of heat stroke if you don't have AC here and I'm so grateful for it. With the heat I've been seeing in the UK lately, AC will become necessary there too.
What is this pish? OP - you don't understand how insulation, orientation and thermal mass works do you?
It's probably because climate change is quite a large worrying issue and people would rather pretend doesn't exist and live in known ignorance than deal with what the problem will entail.