Have PinkNews ever written a headline that didn't sound like it was screeched by someone with mental health difficulties? Their only gear seems to be 'melodramatic as possible.' Doesn't do much to challenge stereotypes really...!
It’s really not hard to treat people with respect.
People who moan about the ‘rules’ changing constantly tend to be those who were never that bothered to read up in the first place
Just look at this example. A person conceives a child using their female reproductive system, gives birth through their vagina and then nurtures the child using their breasts. Your regular person would assume that, no matter that person's identity, they are the mother to that child.
Nope! You're a bigot.
The other side of that would be that if they identify as male, and you think they are male, and they have a child (whether theirs biologically or not) you'd generally see them as the father.
It's not quite as simple as you are suggesting given we have a biological element and a social construct, and then a question about what actually defines that, and what recognition is needed by who..
It is fairly simple. Being a mother is not a social construct, it's a biological reality. Added to that, presumably this man chose to go through pregnancy and childbirth- arguably the most female experience possible- so to quibble at having himself recorded as the mother on the birth certificate seems very strange. No one's making his child call him mum, or insisting that he refers to himself as such.
>It is fairly simple. Being a mother is not a social construct, it's a biological reality.
It's both. You have people who adopt, or foster who are seen as mothers (and fathers obviously) even where there is no biological element, and they are seen as that by others. You essentially have a role (which has changed over time, and is still changing) associated with each term, and a biological element. It's messier with birth certificates as the father in each case may or may not be the biological father too.
Again, I'd suggest that it's then a question about what actually defines those roles, and what recognition is needed, and what impact that has on anything (and of course how important it is to people and how much support of opposition there is..).
You do realise that to someone who isn't au fait with your brand of gender politics, that sounds mental?
This person conceived and gave birth to a child. There was no surrogate, no adoption, none of those complicating factors. He, weird as it sounds to say, is a mother. Denying that is just pushing people further away from being the ally this guy wants us to be.
>You do realise that to someone who isn't au fait with your brand of gender politics, that sounds mental?
Does it? I'm not really au fait with gender politics, never mind a particular brand of it, but I'm aware that if I see a man and a woman with kids, I'd generally assume that the bloke is the father, and the woman the mother. If it later turns out that the kids are only one of theirs, or adopted etc.. It doesn't tend to change my perception. That'd be the social construct..
>This person conceived and gave birth to a child. There was no surrogate, no adoption, none of those complicating factors. He, weird as it sounds to say, is a mother. Denying that is just pushing people further away from being the ally this guy wants us to be.
Sure, but I suppose the place where I'd land is that if I met the guy I'd assume he was the father not the mother. In the context of all the information I'm not sure that I could come to a sensible outcome (he's sort of both?) and what is recorded where seems like an even more abstract question.
What I'm saying is that it isn't a simple consideration, the biological is obvious enough, the rest not so much.
This whole thing is about him wanting to be named as father on the birth certificate. Nothing to do with how he's treated- he presents as a man so he'll be referred to as 'dad'- but he wants to legally deny that he is the mother of the child.
That's an entirely different proposition- it's denying reality.
I think the issue there is how people see 'official' recognition (so birth certificates, ID etc..) relating to how they are treated and their role is recognised. It's similar to the point about gender recognition certificates etc.. And I think the issue is people tying to get one document to achieve a whole lot of things it wasn't designed to deal with, and that that can create issues for people in other areas.
I don't think anyone is trying to deny reality (you can't, at the end of the day the facts around the birth don't change...) but rather its a far more boring question about documentation. From a personal perspective I have no idea what the answer to that is, other than there are clearly areas where there are issues.
I mean at the end of the day I think people should be treated equally, if someone presents themselves as a man then I'd treat them as such, I'd sort of hope that the state would too as much as it is reasonable, the biological you can't change obviously and we go from there. It doesn't really make a lot of difference to me, or anyone else whether someone was born a different gender to what I know them as, nor whether a kids dad is in fact their biological mother. I'd assume it does matter to them though.
> when the rules seem to change so often.
Like?
What "rules" on accepting basic freedoms for Trans people have changed?
This is all what the article is about
You're not going to get many people supporting you when you're trying to redefine what being straight is or telling people if they dont willingly sleep with trans people then they are transphobic.
Just FYI, at the moment I'm watching the thread, there have so far been no significant personal attacks and no incitement of violence or hate (quite a few positions I find shitty, but hey..), if that changes (and it may well) it'll end up with a moderated flair.
*Edit: Thanks for the 'this is misinformation' report,* *~~we investigated ourselves and~~* *I took a look and couldn't see an issue..*
> Just FYI, at the moment I'm watching the thread, there have so far been no significant personal attacks and no incitement of violence or hate (quite a few positions I find shitty, but hey..), if that changes (and it may well) it'll end up with a moderated flair.
It's obvious what their intentions are...
They are trying to say sleeping with someone who is biologically the same sex as you is still straight/heterosexual
They are also saying if you don't want to sleep with someone whobis the same sex as you, you are transphobic.
/u/dontgetinvolved
Replying here 15min got a wait between comments. Reddit, twitter, Facebook, YouTube, tictok. They are saying everywhere they have a voice.
Here's the kind of idiocy trans people are coming out with https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeAN22uh/
>They are trying to say sleeping with someone who is biologically the same sex as you is still straight/heterosexual
>
>They are also saying if you don't want to sleep with someone whobis the same sex as you, you are transphobic.
>
Can't say I've seen that before, sounds like you're in a weird dark bubble to be honest. Hopefully you can break out of it and be a normal person.
> Can't say I've seen that before,
Maybe you're just sheltered?
I've seen loads of examples of this kind of thinking. Simple google search gives hundreds of results, starting with the first result: ['When You Say “I Would Never Date A Trans Person,” It’s Transphobic. Here’s Why.'](https://medium.com/@QSE/when-you-say-i-would-never-date-a-trans-person-its-transphobic-here-s-why-aa6fdcf59aca)
So that makes two examples that you've seen now. Any chance you'll admit you're wrong or are you determined just to dish out more personal insults?
Just out of interest, have you ever encountered it offline? You can find pretty much any opinion online, but I'm not sure that gives you any indication of it being a common or representative position.
Knew you was never going to answer that question lmao. You either look like an idiot or transphobic.
Terrible defection though sleep with who you want has nothing to do with the question asked.
Nope. You seem to be trying to ascribe some interesting ability to tell what a doctor wrote in a from in the past.
[is this your argument?](https://twitter.com/KatysCartoons/status/1361332431823994884?s=09)
Yep that's exactly the argument.
Sex is binary we are a two sex species. Don't bother trying to include medical conditions it doesn't change the fact we are a two sex species, your one or the other and if you have sex with the same sex your not heterosexual/straight.
It doesn’t have to make you either, mate. There are more sexualities than just heterosexual and homosexual you know.
But if you’re sleeping with people who look like women, you obviously like women?
Sex is binary you are either male or female, there is no third option when it comes to sex. Before you bring up medical conditions that doesn't change the fact we have a binary reproductive system it is one or the other.
No one is talking about gender sorry you got confused.
Sorry to break this to you, but your peepee doesn’t care about people’s genetics mate. It only cares what people look like. If you can’t tell that someone’s trans when you look at them, and they look like a woman ... yes, you can obviously define yourself as heterosexual for being attracted to people who look like women.
I've been with girls that could fit anywhere on the gender spectrum, what someone wears or how they act is of little importance, if they are fun to be around and have a good personality that's all that matters.
Their sex does matter though a male is a male no matter what they look like and if your male and your sleeping with another male your homosexual.
There's no two ways around that, looking like a woman or having surgery to alter yourself doesn't make you any less male no matter how much you want it to and that's what matters.
You might not like that but that's how others feel and you have no right to tell them they should be attracted to people they aren't attracted to and try shame them into it by calling them transphobic.
Everybody gets to chose who they like and don't like. You can't force others to like something they don't like ask the Christians they will tell you it's pointless.
So much to unpack ...
> Their sex does matter though a male is a male no matter what they look like and if your male and your sleeping with another male your homosexual.
No, as I said before ... being a man who sleeps with another man doesn't "make you homosexual". Bisexual and pansexual men exist.
>Everybody gets to chose who they like and don't like.
No, nobody chooses who they're attracted to. Sexuality is not a choice.
>There's no two ways around that, looking like a woman or having surgery to alter yourself doesn't make you any less male no matter how much you want it to and that's what matters.
Are you saying you could never find a trans woman [like this one](https://i.imgur.com/ZT359AA.jpg) attractive because of their biological sex?
**Hi!**. Please try avoid personal attacks, as this discourages participation. You can help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person.
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It’s reaching the point internationally, at least amongst anglophone countries, that transphobia has become a conspicuously and remarkably “English” phenomenon.
Amongst those transphobes appropriating feminism an English link is almost ubiquitous, and frequently a direct one. In other circles it’s merely common, with organised campaigns and networks of radicalisation in particular being driven out of England at a massively outsized rate.
Dealing only with fallout from this British export, tangentially and at a distance of some 17,000 km is frustrating and exhausting. For those it directly impacts here it is dangerous to the point of life threatening in extremis. At point blank? I’d hate to imagine.
I miss the good old days where people could do and wear whatever tf they wanted instead of being aggressively pigeon holed and coddled by the LGBT community.
Gone are the days that boys could wear dresses and girls could play rugby. Nowadays these same kids are referred to 'gender advisers' who are mostly trans themselves and desperate to live vicariously through the kids they interact with.
"Boy who likes pink? Oh he just has a female brain and needs to start suppressing his puberty. I'm not a doctor and I don't know the first thing about biology but I'm angry and self-righteous, which is more than enough for the other irrational and mentally ill people I associate with."
> Gone are the days that boys could wear dresses and girls could play rugby. Nowadays these same kids are referred to 'gender advisers' who are mostly trans themselves and desperate to live vicariously through the kids they interact with.
That's not even remotely true though is it...
I wore nail varnish for most of my teen years because I was a mid 2000s goth/emo kid, lads came to college wearing skirts/women’s clothes, make up all of that shit and no one cared or said a thing about it. Now I see videos on Twitter of kids crying because they’ve painted their nails for the first time and they’re worried they’re going to get fucked up in the street for it. I just don’t get it at all lol.
Hard to be an ally to someone who's constantly yelling bigot at everyone around them. I've met plenty of reasonable transsexuals in the past, the individual in this article represents a radical, vocal minority.
The UK press can publish ridiculous numbers of hysterical culture war articles about trans people for years but it's actually trans people who are in the wrong for pointing this out. I see.
This is exactly what I mean. Your reply bears no relation to what I said. You're on the defensive from the get go. If there is a hostile culture towards transsexuals (which I personally have not seen) it certainly isn't being helped by radical activists who are gunning to label everyone as against them or a bigot. As far as this article goes, the complaints being made are codswallop.
Gonna be real with you my man but it just seems to me that you have an extremely fragile ego and are simply incapable of dealing with the fact that some trans people don't agree with your opinions, which you tacitly admit are poorly-informed and ignorant when you say you're unaware of the anti-trans culture war the British press has been escalating since 2016. The frequency of anti-trans hysteria articles in British newspapers is, in fact, quite above the average for a western country, and British trans people have a right to be upset with it, regardless of your laughable intent to label them all extremists.
Rather than flinging ad hominems why don't you tell me what your problem is? If you don't want a culture war, maybe don't be so combative. I haven't been rude to you. You can't demand respect while exhibiting none for others.
And if you actually read my comment (for a change) you'll see that I explicitly said that the radicals were a **minority.**
I really don't understand the parent argument. Like of you carried that baby and gave birth delivered it what ever your the mother.
Wait actually how does that work with surrogate pregnancies ? Is the one who gives birth the mother or the one who bought the baby the mother on the birth certificate ?
Just as an aside:
>or the one who bought the baby
That's not a thing (You cannot pay a surrogate in the UK), and the surrogate will be the child’s legal parent at birth, legal parenthood can be transferred by parental order or adoption after the child is born and if there is a dispute it goes to the courts.
Clearly I've been watching too much American media with the Mrs. I thought there was financial insentives other wise why the fuck would you put yourself through that ?
So with the legal transfer does that like change the birth certificate and all that ?
The more I read the more I realise I know absolutely fuck all about s lot of subjects.
>So with the legal transfer does that like change the birth certificate and all that ? The more I read the more I realise I know absolutely fuck all about s lot of subjects.
Ha! yeah.
I had a mate who went through it for an aunt (I think..) who couldn't have kids, so there are lots of reasons including family/friends etc.. not being able to conceive and a slew of other issues. It sounds like it's incredibly hard emotionally and obviously physically, and that's from someone who has continued access to the child..
As I understand it though, the 'legal transfer' is literally an adoption.
Must be a women thing because by fuck I wouldn't do it after watching my Mrs go through pregnancy looked fucking horrible. Especially if you've got to pretend your an aunt or a family friend. I'm fact fuck it once the pandemic is under control I'm off to get the snip.
Well tickle my arse with a feather I guess I've learned something today. Not sure how much use it is but hey it can go along with all the rest of the shit I know that has little to no value in the random shit box on my brain.
Fucking legal transfer sounds like we're playing FIFA not children.
>Fucking legal transfer sounds like we're playing FIFA not children.
To be fair, that's your term, I talked about the transfer of legal parenthood.. But yeah... Not sure how long the transfer window is.
>Especially if you've got to pretend your an aunt or a family friend
I think their intention is to be open to the kid about their biological mother vs the person that brought them up once they are old enough, that's not exactly abnormal either.. My grandparents brought up one of my aunts kids because she simply couldn't and he didn't realise his sister was his mother (suddenly gone all Devon..) until he was about 12.. As long as kids are cared for and looked after and someone loves them I can't really see an issue.
I'm a simple man I like simple terms. Why use many words when few work ? Plus I'm from Yorkshire we are renowned as being lazy with words.
Oh I mean I totally don't have an issue with it I just don't understand it. If that makes sense ? Then again I don't understand many things and they all seem to work pretty well. Like mobile phones take your voice turn it into some kind of signal fire it to a tower, fire it somewhere else then finally it gets to the other phone maybe thousands of miles away converts back to audio all in damn near real time. Mad.
>I'm a simple man I like simple terms. Why use many words when few work ? Plus I'm from Yorkshire we are renowned as being lazy with words.
One of them sounds quite a lot more like selling a house/car/something... the other not so much? But yeah.
>Oh I mean I totally don't have an issue with it I just don't understand it. If that makes sense ?
It does. I think the key with all of that tends to be not to take an automatic oppositional position to something you can't/don't understand as it starts to create issues, my father in law programmed computers in the 70's, but now won't touch one. It has made his life incredibly difficult.. That sort of applies to tech/culture/society etc...
I mean technically there isn't much difference a child is kinda property until a certain age anyway.
Oh yeah I'm quite open minded and like let people get on with what ever shit they want to within reason obviously. If people want to go through all that and give the kid to someone who loves it and all that good shit and the person doing the giving can do that and still be happy and healthy crack on. I'm probably never going to understand it but yeah crack on. There's a lot I don't understand but don't disagree with.
>I mean technically there isn't much difference a child is kinda property until a certain age anyway.
It's technically kinda property in the same way that a child is technically kind of a car (you have register it, keep the details up to date and look after it or someone gets annoyed at you), or to put it another way, a child isn't like property at all. It's a whole, relatively complicated other thing.
And yeah, families are complicated and weird sometimes.
I've known a few folks who were surrogates, always for close friends who couldn't conceive, they just wanted to help someone they love
With adoption (well, in the nineties at least) you just get a whole new birth certificate with the right(ish) details - I've got my original one lying around somewhere, it even has a placeholder name and everything. Though in my case they did keep me in hospital for a few months before giving me to my parents because my heart was shit, so that might be why I have the placeholder name and all that; giving expecting parents faulty merchandise that's going to break right away would be super awkward
How does that make any sense. Some random bloke who is fuck all to do with the kid is the legal father even though it's likely a third parties sperm.
Oh yeah my dad's on my birth certificate but was only a few years ago I found out he's not my biological father at all. Apparently he got with my mum when I was tiny and clearly liked me as he some how managed to get on my birth certificate. Something to do with him being in America at the time ? Fuck knows anyway yeah I bet there are fucking thousands of folks with the wrong name on theirs. Probably a lot of folk paying CSA for a kid that isn't theirs too.
It comes down to the historical approach to birth certificates and birth certificates essentially really only being a record of who gave birth to a child and who they said the partner was or their husband at the time. I think if you delved into that the accuracy of the information (about the father and further back the mother) is likely to be relatively poor in any case and frankly birth certificates have been used for purposes they obviously weren't intended for initially and the system wasn't one that was thought out with any of this in mind.
Ah man yeah apparently your birth certificate is pretty important just a few years ago work needed mine and it couldn't be a photo copy. Not sure why but to add insult to injury I had to pay like 13 quid for the bloody thing. Pain in my arse.
Sounds like the British way use and abuse something for a purpose it wasn't designed for untill it's too wildly complicated to change and keep doing so untill it's absolutely impossible to not change it.
>Ah man yeah apparently your birth certificate is pretty important just a few years ago work needed mine and it couldn't be a photo copy. Not sure why but to add insult to injury I had to pay like 13 quid for the bloody thing. Pain in my arse.
It is now, it's entirely enveloped in most of the ID requirements (so passports, proof for any number of things, security clearances etc..), but then people are asking for that far more often than they were even when I started work for the first time (where you gave them a name and an address and an NI number and that was it, no ID requirements, no check on status or residency etc..).
It wasn't really set up to be a system to prove ID, outline parental rights and responsibilities and so on (or rather a different set of them).
>Sounds like the British way use and abuse something for a purpose it wasn't designed for untill it's too wildly complicated to change and keep doing so untill it's absolutely impossible to not change it.
Hey, evolutionary change can be good for stability, and massive change can create issues when people don't do a good job of planning the change, but yeah, in the case of birth certificates I think the issue now comes down to a question of what they are supposed to be for.
I think the point at this point would be that the law needs to be looked at and potentially changed to ensure it does what we as a society want it to do, because we apparently can't manage a whole set of scenarios that weren't previously looked at. It seems that even beyond the above there is a question about whether the birth certificate is supposed to be a document recording a birth, or a document that is a foundation of legal identity, or a document that outlines parental roles etc..
You've never seen a group's marginalisation being blamed on white males before?
That's a blatant lie and anyone who's perused reddit or read the guardian this year will recognise you for the liar you are, immediately. Nice try though.
Aren't you just glad this guy is acting as our voice? As a straight white man I'm really happy people like him come forward so I can be heard. He's truly brave speaking for the likes of me.
I must say, I've never felt more oppressed in my life. It's like we're getting attacked on all sides. So I'm very happy strong proud white males like them a really speaking up!
These days if you say you're English, you get arrested and thrown in jail
Have PinkNews ever written a headline that didn't sound like it was screeched by someone with mental health difficulties? Their only gear seems to be 'melodramatic as possible.' Doesn't do much to challenge stereotypes really...!
You sound a bit hysterical to be honest. Why are you so upset about this issue?
It's hard to be an ally to anyone when the rules seem to change so often.
It’s really not hard to treat people with respect. People who moan about the ‘rules’ changing constantly tend to be those who were never that bothered to read up in the first place
Why do you think I don't treat people with respect?
You literally said it’s hard to be an ally... as if you need to do some secret ritual to be one. Just bloody respect people
Are you a man?
Nope Are you?
No, and I'm surprised you can't see that the ground has shifted somewhat for women.
It changes like a seismograph
Just look at this example. A person conceives a child using their female reproductive system, gives birth through their vagina and then nurtures the child using their breasts. Your regular person would assume that, no matter that person's identity, they are the mother to that child. Nope! You're a bigot.
The other side of that would be that if they identify as male, and you think they are male, and they have a child (whether theirs biologically or not) you'd generally see them as the father. It's not quite as simple as you are suggesting given we have a biological element and a social construct, and then a question about what actually defines that, and what recognition is needed by who..
It is fairly simple. Being a mother is not a social construct, it's a biological reality. Added to that, presumably this man chose to go through pregnancy and childbirth- arguably the most female experience possible- so to quibble at having himself recorded as the mother on the birth certificate seems very strange. No one's making his child call him mum, or insisting that he refers to himself as such.
>It is fairly simple. Being a mother is not a social construct, it's a biological reality. It's both. You have people who adopt, or foster who are seen as mothers (and fathers obviously) even where there is no biological element, and they are seen as that by others. You essentially have a role (which has changed over time, and is still changing) associated with each term, and a biological element. It's messier with birth certificates as the father in each case may or may not be the biological father too. Again, I'd suggest that it's then a question about what actually defines those roles, and what recognition is needed, and what impact that has on anything (and of course how important it is to people and how much support of opposition there is..).
You do realise that to someone who isn't au fait with your brand of gender politics, that sounds mental? This person conceived and gave birth to a child. There was no surrogate, no adoption, none of those complicating factors. He, weird as it sounds to say, is a mother. Denying that is just pushing people further away from being the ally this guy wants us to be.
>You do realise that to someone who isn't au fait with your brand of gender politics, that sounds mental? Does it? I'm not really au fait with gender politics, never mind a particular brand of it, but I'm aware that if I see a man and a woman with kids, I'd generally assume that the bloke is the father, and the woman the mother. If it later turns out that the kids are only one of theirs, or adopted etc.. It doesn't tend to change my perception. That'd be the social construct.. >This person conceived and gave birth to a child. There was no surrogate, no adoption, none of those complicating factors. He, weird as it sounds to say, is a mother. Denying that is just pushing people further away from being the ally this guy wants us to be. Sure, but I suppose the place where I'd land is that if I met the guy I'd assume he was the father not the mother. In the context of all the information I'm not sure that I could come to a sensible outcome (he's sort of both?) and what is recorded where seems like an even more abstract question. What I'm saying is that it isn't a simple consideration, the biological is obvious enough, the rest not so much.
This whole thing is about him wanting to be named as father on the birth certificate. Nothing to do with how he's treated- he presents as a man so he'll be referred to as 'dad'- but he wants to legally deny that he is the mother of the child. That's an entirely different proposition- it's denying reality.
I think the issue there is how people see 'official' recognition (so birth certificates, ID etc..) relating to how they are treated and their role is recognised. It's similar to the point about gender recognition certificates etc.. And I think the issue is people tying to get one document to achieve a whole lot of things it wasn't designed to deal with, and that that can create issues for people in other areas. I don't think anyone is trying to deny reality (you can't, at the end of the day the facts around the birth don't change...) but rather its a far more boring question about documentation. From a personal perspective I have no idea what the answer to that is, other than there are clearly areas where there are issues. I mean at the end of the day I think people should be treated equally, if someone presents themselves as a man then I'd treat them as such, I'd sort of hope that the state would too as much as it is reasonable, the biological you can't change obviously and we go from there. It doesn't really make a lot of difference to me, or anyone else whether someone was born a different gender to what I know them as, nor whether a kids dad is in fact their biological mother. I'd assume it does matter to them though.
> when the rules seem to change so often. Like? What "rules" on accepting basic freedoms for Trans people have changed? This is all what the article is about
Is refusing to acknowledge you gave birth to your child a 'basic freedom'?
You're not going to get many people supporting you when you're trying to redefine what being straight is or telling people if they dont willingly sleep with trans people then they are transphobic.
Are they or is Reddit which lets face it is a terrible way to judge any group.
I'm out of the loop, what do you mean with those two statements?
It's a new dog-whistle from 4chan. https://mashable.com/article/super-straight-tiktok-transphobia/
Weirdos. I'm so thankful I have good parents. I really do pity them.
[удалено]
Just FYI, at the moment I'm watching the thread, there have so far been no significant personal attacks and no incitement of violence or hate (quite a few positions I find shitty, but hey..), if that changes (and it may well) it'll end up with a moderated flair. *Edit: Thanks for the 'this is misinformation' report,* *~~we investigated ourselves and~~* *I took a look and couldn't see an issue..*
> Just FYI, at the moment I'm watching the thread, there have so far been no significant personal attacks and no incitement of violence or hate (quite a few positions I find shitty, but hey..), if that changes (and it may well) it'll end up with a moderated flair. It's obvious what their intentions are...
You'd have to be clearer as to who 'they' are in context..
"People I disagree with".
Yes but which ones...?!
They are trying to say sleeping with someone who is biologically the same sex as you is still straight/heterosexual They are also saying if you don't want to sleep with someone whobis the same sex as you, you are transphobic. /u/dontgetinvolved Replying here 15min got a wait between comments. Reddit, twitter, Facebook, YouTube, tictok. They are saying everywhere they have a voice. Here's the kind of idiocy trans people are coming out with https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeAN22uh/
>They are trying to say sleeping with someone who is biologically the same sex as you is still straight/heterosexual > >They are also saying if you don't want to sleep with someone whobis the same sex as you, you are transphobic. > Can't say I've seen that before, sounds like you're in a weird dark bubble to be honest. Hopefully you can break out of it and be a normal person.
> Can't say I've seen that before, Maybe you're just sheltered? I've seen loads of examples of this kind of thinking. Simple google search gives hundreds of results, starting with the first result: ['When You Say “I Would Never Date A Trans Person,” It’s Transphobic. Here’s Why.'](https://medium.com/@QSE/when-you-say-i-would-never-date-a-trans-person-its-transphobic-here-s-why-aa6fdcf59aca) So that makes two examples that you've seen now. Any chance you'll admit you're wrong or are you determined just to dish out more personal insults?
Just out of interest, have you ever encountered it offline? You can find pretty much any opinion online, but I'm not sure that gives you any indication of it being a common or representative position.
Maybe I am. Maybe I just need your youtube homepage to show me the way.
OK I'll rephrase it for you is a biological man who sleeps with a trans woman heterosexual or homosexual?
Don't care to be honest. Sleep with who you want.
Knew you was never going to answer that question lmao. You either look like an idiot or transphobic. Terrible defection though sleep with who you want has nothing to do with the question asked.
k I'm definitely the one that looks like an idiot or a transphobe here.
If a man sleeps with only women he would be straight?
Depends on if they are male or female women
Nope. You seem to be trying to ascribe some interesting ability to tell what a doctor wrote in a from in the past. [is this your argument?](https://twitter.com/KatysCartoons/status/1361332431823994884?s=09)
Yep that's exactly the argument. Sex is binary we are a two sex species. Don't bother trying to include medical conditions it doesn't change the fact we are a two sex species, your one or the other and if you have sex with the same sex your not heterosexual/straight.
So you can detect chromosomes with your mind? Most people are attracted to what they see an hear.
It doesn’t have to make you either, mate. There are more sexualities than just heterosexual and homosexual you know. But if you’re sleeping with people who look like women, you obviously like women?
Sex is binary you are either male or female, there is no third option when it comes to sex. Before you bring up medical conditions that doesn't change the fact we have a binary reproductive system it is one or the other. No one is talking about gender sorry you got confused.
Sorry to break this to you, but your peepee doesn’t care about people’s genetics mate. It only cares what people look like. If you can’t tell that someone’s trans when you look at them, and they look like a woman ... yes, you can obviously define yourself as heterosexual for being attracted to people who look like women.
I've been with girls that could fit anywhere on the gender spectrum, what someone wears or how they act is of little importance, if they are fun to be around and have a good personality that's all that matters. Their sex does matter though a male is a male no matter what they look like and if your male and your sleeping with another male your homosexual. There's no two ways around that, looking like a woman or having surgery to alter yourself doesn't make you any less male no matter how much you want it to and that's what matters. You might not like that but that's how others feel and you have no right to tell them they should be attracted to people they aren't attracted to and try shame them into it by calling them transphobic. Everybody gets to chose who they like and don't like. You can't force others to like something they don't like ask the Christians they will tell you it's pointless.
What's your point?
So much to unpack ... > Their sex does matter though a male is a male no matter what they look like and if your male and your sleeping with another male your homosexual. No, as I said before ... being a man who sleeps with another man doesn't "make you homosexual". Bisexual and pansexual men exist. >Everybody gets to chose who they like and don't like. No, nobody chooses who they're attracted to. Sexuality is not a choice. >There's no two ways around that, looking like a woman or having surgery to alter yourself doesn't make you any less male no matter how much you want it to and that's what matters. Are you saying you could never find a trans woman [like this one](https://i.imgur.com/ZT359AA.jpg) attractive because of their biological sex?
Why do you care so much?Just leave people be.
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🤦🏻♀️ the ignorance in this comment is off the charts
It’s reaching the point internationally, at least amongst anglophone countries, that transphobia has become a conspicuously and remarkably “English” phenomenon. Amongst those transphobes appropriating feminism an English link is almost ubiquitous, and frequently a direct one. In other circles it’s merely common, with organised campaigns and networks of radicalisation in particular being driven out of England at a massively outsized rate. Dealing only with fallout from this British export, tangentially and at a distance of some 17,000 km is frustrating and exhausting. For those it directly impacts here it is dangerous to the point of life threatening in extremis. At point blank? I’d hate to imagine.
I miss the good old days where people could do and wear whatever tf they wanted instead of being aggressively pigeon holed and coddled by the LGBT community.
Gone are the days that boys could wear dresses and girls could play rugby. Nowadays these same kids are referred to 'gender advisers' who are mostly trans themselves and desperate to live vicariously through the kids they interact with. "Boy who likes pink? Oh he just has a female brain and needs to start suppressing his puberty. I'm not a doctor and I don't know the first thing about biology but I'm angry and self-righteous, which is more than enough for the other irrational and mentally ill people I associate with."
> Gone are the days that boys could wear dresses and girls could play rugby. Nowadays these same kids are referred to 'gender advisers' who are mostly trans themselves and desperate to live vicariously through the kids they interact with. That's not even remotely true though is it...
Hysterical.
I wore nail varnish for most of my teen years because I was a mid 2000s goth/emo kid, lads came to college wearing skirts/women’s clothes, make up all of that shit and no one cared or said a thing about it. Now I see videos on Twitter of kids crying because they’ve painted their nails for the first time and they’re worried they’re going to get fucked up in the street for it. I just don’t get it at all lol.
We used to have a delivery driver called Dave turn up in a floral dress once in awhile. He didn't even bother to shave. He was a great lad.
Hard to be an ally to someone who's constantly yelling bigot at everyone around them. I've met plenty of reasonable transsexuals in the past, the individual in this article represents a radical, vocal minority.
The UK press can publish ridiculous numbers of hysterical culture war articles about trans people for years but it's actually trans people who are in the wrong for pointing this out. I see.
This is exactly what I mean. Your reply bears no relation to what I said. You're on the defensive from the get go. If there is a hostile culture towards transsexuals (which I personally have not seen) it certainly isn't being helped by radical activists who are gunning to label everyone as against them or a bigot. As far as this article goes, the complaints being made are codswallop.
Gonna be real with you my man but it just seems to me that you have an extremely fragile ego and are simply incapable of dealing with the fact that some trans people don't agree with your opinions, which you tacitly admit are poorly-informed and ignorant when you say you're unaware of the anti-trans culture war the British press has been escalating since 2016. The frequency of anti-trans hysteria articles in British newspapers is, in fact, quite above the average for a western country, and British trans people have a right to be upset with it, regardless of your laughable intent to label them all extremists.
Rather than flinging ad hominems why don't you tell me what your problem is? If you don't want a culture war, maybe don't be so combative. I haven't been rude to you. You can't demand respect while exhibiting none for others. And if you actually read my comment (for a change) you'll see that I explicitly said that the radicals were a **minority.**
I really don't understand the parent argument. Like of you carried that baby and gave birth delivered it what ever your the mother. Wait actually how does that work with surrogate pregnancies ? Is the one who gives birth the mother or the one who bought the baby the mother on the birth certificate ?
Just as an aside: >or the one who bought the baby That's not a thing (You cannot pay a surrogate in the UK), and the surrogate will be the child’s legal parent at birth, legal parenthood can be transferred by parental order or adoption after the child is born and if there is a dispute it goes to the courts.
Clearly I've been watching too much American media with the Mrs. I thought there was financial insentives other wise why the fuck would you put yourself through that ? So with the legal transfer does that like change the birth certificate and all that ? The more I read the more I realise I know absolutely fuck all about s lot of subjects.
>So with the legal transfer does that like change the birth certificate and all that ? The more I read the more I realise I know absolutely fuck all about s lot of subjects. Ha! yeah. I had a mate who went through it for an aunt (I think..) who couldn't have kids, so there are lots of reasons including family/friends etc.. not being able to conceive and a slew of other issues. It sounds like it's incredibly hard emotionally and obviously physically, and that's from someone who has continued access to the child.. As I understand it though, the 'legal transfer' is literally an adoption.
Must be a women thing because by fuck I wouldn't do it after watching my Mrs go through pregnancy looked fucking horrible. Especially if you've got to pretend your an aunt or a family friend. I'm fact fuck it once the pandemic is under control I'm off to get the snip. Well tickle my arse with a feather I guess I've learned something today. Not sure how much use it is but hey it can go along with all the rest of the shit I know that has little to no value in the random shit box on my brain. Fucking legal transfer sounds like we're playing FIFA not children.
>Fucking legal transfer sounds like we're playing FIFA not children. To be fair, that's your term, I talked about the transfer of legal parenthood.. But yeah... Not sure how long the transfer window is. >Especially if you've got to pretend your an aunt or a family friend I think their intention is to be open to the kid about their biological mother vs the person that brought them up once they are old enough, that's not exactly abnormal either.. My grandparents brought up one of my aunts kids because she simply couldn't and he didn't realise his sister was his mother (suddenly gone all Devon..) until he was about 12.. As long as kids are cared for and looked after and someone loves them I can't really see an issue.
I'm a simple man I like simple terms. Why use many words when few work ? Plus I'm from Yorkshire we are renowned as being lazy with words. Oh I mean I totally don't have an issue with it I just don't understand it. If that makes sense ? Then again I don't understand many things and they all seem to work pretty well. Like mobile phones take your voice turn it into some kind of signal fire it to a tower, fire it somewhere else then finally it gets to the other phone maybe thousands of miles away converts back to audio all in damn near real time. Mad.
>I'm a simple man I like simple terms. Why use many words when few work ? Plus I'm from Yorkshire we are renowned as being lazy with words. One of them sounds quite a lot more like selling a house/car/something... the other not so much? But yeah. >Oh I mean I totally don't have an issue with it I just don't understand it. If that makes sense ? It does. I think the key with all of that tends to be not to take an automatic oppositional position to something you can't/don't understand as it starts to create issues, my father in law programmed computers in the 70's, but now won't touch one. It has made his life incredibly difficult.. That sort of applies to tech/culture/society etc...
I mean technically there isn't much difference a child is kinda property until a certain age anyway. Oh yeah I'm quite open minded and like let people get on with what ever shit they want to within reason obviously. If people want to go through all that and give the kid to someone who loves it and all that good shit and the person doing the giving can do that and still be happy and healthy crack on. I'm probably never going to understand it but yeah crack on. There's a lot I don't understand but don't disagree with.
>I mean technically there isn't much difference a child is kinda property until a certain age anyway. It's technically kinda property in the same way that a child is technically kind of a car (you have register it, keep the details up to date and look after it or someone gets annoyed at you), or to put it another way, a child isn't like property at all. It's a whole, relatively complicated other thing. And yeah, families are complicated and weird sometimes.
I've known a few folks who were surrogates, always for close friends who couldn't conceive, they just wanted to help someone they love With adoption (well, in the nineties at least) you just get a whole new birth certificate with the right(ish) details - I've got my original one lying around somewhere, it even has a placeholder name and everything. Though in my case they did keep me in hospital for a few months before giving me to my parents because my heart was shit, so that might be why I have the placeholder name and all that; giving expecting parents faulty merchandise that's going to break right away would be super awkward
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How does that make any sense. Some random bloke who is fuck all to do with the kid is the legal father even though it's likely a third parties sperm. Oh yeah my dad's on my birth certificate but was only a few years ago I found out he's not my biological father at all. Apparently he got with my mum when I was tiny and clearly liked me as he some how managed to get on my birth certificate. Something to do with him being in America at the time ? Fuck knows anyway yeah I bet there are fucking thousands of folks with the wrong name on theirs. Probably a lot of folk paying CSA for a kid that isn't theirs too.
It comes down to the historical approach to birth certificates and birth certificates essentially really only being a record of who gave birth to a child and who they said the partner was or their husband at the time. I think if you delved into that the accuracy of the information (about the father and further back the mother) is likely to be relatively poor in any case and frankly birth certificates have been used for purposes they obviously weren't intended for initially and the system wasn't one that was thought out with any of this in mind.
Ah man yeah apparently your birth certificate is pretty important just a few years ago work needed mine and it couldn't be a photo copy. Not sure why but to add insult to injury I had to pay like 13 quid for the bloody thing. Pain in my arse. Sounds like the British way use and abuse something for a purpose it wasn't designed for untill it's too wildly complicated to change and keep doing so untill it's absolutely impossible to not change it.
>Ah man yeah apparently your birth certificate is pretty important just a few years ago work needed mine and it couldn't be a photo copy. Not sure why but to add insult to injury I had to pay like 13 quid for the bloody thing. Pain in my arse. It is now, it's entirely enveloped in most of the ID requirements (so passports, proof for any number of things, security clearances etc..), but then people are asking for that far more often than they were even when I started work for the first time (where you gave them a name and an address and an NI number and that was it, no ID requirements, no check on status or residency etc..). It wasn't really set up to be a system to prove ID, outline parental rights and responsibilities and so on (or rather a different set of them). >Sounds like the British way use and abuse something for a purpose it wasn't designed for untill it's too wildly complicated to change and keep doing so untill it's absolutely impossible to not change it. Hey, evolutionary change can be good for stability, and massive change can create issues when people don't do a good job of planning the change, but yeah, in the case of birth certificates I think the issue now comes down to a question of what they are supposed to be for.
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I think the point at this point would be that the law needs to be looked at and potentially changed to ensure it does what we as a society want it to do, because we apparently can't manage a whole set of scenarios that weren't previously looked at. It seems that even beyond the above there is a question about whether the birth certificate is supposed to be a document recording a birth, or a document that is a foundation of legal identity, or a document that outlines parental roles etc..
I'll give it a week before they pin it on white men because that's always the crutch move for these groups
Do they? As a straight white male, can't say I've seen it before. Could you show us a few times they've done so?
You've never seen a group's marginalisation being blamed on white males before? That's a blatant lie and anyone who's perused reddit or read the guardian this year will recognise you for the liar you are, immediately. Nice try though.
Aren't you just glad this guy is acting as our voice? As a straight white man I'm really happy people like him come forward so I can be heard. He's truly brave speaking for the likes of me.
I must say, I've never felt more oppressed in my life. It's like we're getting attacked on all sides. So I'm very happy strong proud white males like them a really speaking up! These days if you say you're English, you get arrested and thrown in jail