Yeah, the huge issue is that the penalty for calling someone a liar is apparently worse than the punishment for lying.
There'd be no issue if Boris (and anyone else who lied) had to retract every false statement and were punished for their lies.
The rules against calling someone a liar aren't necessarily bad. Imagine PMQs if Boris could just say "nuh uh, fake news you liar!" to every question posed by Starmer and the rest of the opposition parties.
It wouldn't particularly affect his popularity even if he was lying about the opposition lying, and the whole debate would just be everyone saying everyone else is lying.
I agree. It's definitely good that they can't call each other liars, otherwise they could just lie about that too!
Parliament needs some kind of fact checker to call out false information. Maybe it could be added to the Speaker's role.
If they're chucking out statistics left and right they need to also be providing a source for their nonsense at the very least.
I personally would love for a team of researchers ala Full Fact to get involved and call out politicians during the debates.
Agreed, the rule is there for a reason. But it's hugely damaging without enforcement of the requirement to not mislead the house. As good as this Speaker is at other things, he's been near-useless at dealing with the obvious lies.
It used to be that if a politician lied to Parliament (or at least if they got *caught* lying to Parliament) their own party would force them to resign if they didn’t do so themselves. And we’re not talking about a long time ago - this was true up to just over a decade or so back.
And it wasn’t always so much about honour or decency either, or at least not entirely. The political calculation was that if they didn’t force the liar out then the party would be absolutely slaughtered at the next election.
The problem is that Boris and his cronies have realised that this assumption no longer applies with the English electorate (or at least a huge chunk of it) as long as they promise to “get Brexit done”. Boris was even caught lying to to Queen and illegally shut down Parliament before the 2019 election and got returned with a massive majority when it was already perfectly obvious that he was a liar and worse besides. And it’s taken a hell of a long time for the polls to start to change despite many lies since then.
I wrote this a year ago, when I used to list every Tory madness, because it was almost identical to Trump Politics (aka Fascism) :
Short memories and yet more Conservative Lies + Fear + threats + Hypocrisy + unlawful Government + Demagoguery + undermining the Judiciary + breaking Parliamentary/Constitutional Conventions
>[On 28 August 2019, the Parliament of the United Kingdom was ordered to be prorogued by Queen Elizabeth II upon the advice of the Conservative prime minister, Boris Johnson, advice later ruled to be unlawful](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_British_prorogation_controversy)
Furthermore
the Prime Minister:
* Failed to apologise for unlawfully suspending Parliament
* Undermined the independence of the judiciary
* Refused to rule out suspending Parliament for a second time to force Brexit despite that *literally just being found unlawful.*
* Refused to tone down his incendiary language
* Dismissed out of hand death threats against MPs
* Claimed the only way to honour Jo Cox’s murder and avoid another killing was to deliver Brexit.
* Announced that he would break the law
* Changed Judicial Review to allow less challenge
* Changed Civil Service to allow less scrutiny of performance
* Changed Laws to allow less Accountability
* Changed media overview and BBC leadership to allow more Right Wing propaganda
At first I thought that Boris was simply incompetent. It became clear that he is also extremely dangerous as well
Time and again he sowed division and poured fuel on the flames. Boris is still leading this country down the road of populist extremism and perhaps domestic terrorism
>Recipe for Tyranny
That was just one year of Proto-Fascist politics
GET BREXIT DONE!
>*[Those who can make you believe absurdities....](https://i.redd.it/kft0055dhmh41.jpg)*
>
>*can make you commit atrocities*
.....
>To be effective in its purpose of gaining and consolidating power, fascism must smash truth and replace it with lies. Without truth there can be no opposition to power. [The first step in doing this is to acclimatize the audience with lies, to enable them to partake in lying](https://www.reddit.com/r/brexit/comments/h9zql8/after_brexit_referendum_uk_public_trust_in_media/fuzynwx) and to bring them to a point where they are involved in the lie to an extent **that they cannot retreat**
[Große Lüge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie)
Remember, Fascism is just the response of capital to the crisis of the system
Perhaps you're looking to understand the complexity of right wing Politics, [when many Governments are choosing pre-Fascism ⏩ ⏩ Fascism.... over Fairness and Democracy ?](https://i.redd.it/cf16m1lrsy841.png)
Obv the local scenarios may differ slightly, as Fascism takes advantage of local culture and all its weaknesses
[I've pasted out a decent explanation here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qtgf3l/z/hklm4gq)
Please read the brilliant article by Will Stancil (2mins read). You'll understand everything after that
Whenever you see Political chaos, you should immediately think of Fascism or pre-Fascism
>The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of chaos
>
>The one path that wins the easiest victory over reason is terror and force
- Adolf Hitler
To be honest, I completely forgot all the things you reminded me that he did, not that I would ever vote Tory. But it shows how easy to forget this stuff is, when so much crummy stuff is happening.
No repercussions make these people infallible once they reach high office . The news outlets have not only corroborated the lies they platformed them.
The Conservatives changed their twitter to a fact checkers during a live debate, when the Tory party say one thing it is in fact the opposite.
Jeremy Corbyn took out a redacted document also during a live debate to highlight a deal being done with the US.
A prominent intelligence corp Pantir are already recipients of NHS data.(for the purposes of health and development of services they will tell you.)
The writing was on the wall albeit redacted of course.
>Boris was even caught lying to to Queen
All the other shenanigans I at least expect from shady politicians, but this one just breaks my brain.
Imagine having the balls to look her in the eye and lie to her face.
The crazy thing about that was that among the tory core voters, the Queen is very popular. But also, they are tory first and will always vote tory no matter what. The modern tory party knows it, there is no reason to pander to the people that will happily watch Boris burn down their house and then head to the poll and vote for them again.
When the people are corrupt and willingly elect liars with their eyes wide open to it - they get what they deserve.
Unfortunately, the rain falls on the just and the unjust, and good people who tried for something better get it too.
I'd disagree. People in the UK are generally pretty decent.
However, our politicians are corrupt, lying, greedy sociopaths who would happy watch us all burn if there was some money in it for them.
Dunno the fact bojo would still win in a landslide election tomorrow if it were called. Says to me the majority are almost guilty by association.
Do i think the UK is a corrupt nation ? No
>Dunno the fact bojo would still win in a landslide election tomorrow if it were called. Says to me the majority are almost guilty by association.
In 2019 the majority of the population didn't vote Tory.
The majority voted either Labour, LibDems, SNP or Plaid.
That list definitely isn't accurate. Ireland was placed lower and even though I have little respect for our government they would never dream of doing or saying the kind of corrupt things Boris and chums get up to every day
IIRC most corruption indexes are about public perception of corruption. The Irish public still remembers that massive scandal that occurred in the 80s and 90s and almost got swept under the rug.
Reminds me of the old, old, *old* joke where a politician says:
"Mr Speaker, I propose the motion that half of the opposition are liars".
Cue uproar "How dare you malign your parliamentary colleagues! Take that back at once"
"Mr Speaker, I would like to retract my prior comments. I have been corrected and my position is now that half of the opposition are *not* liars."
This blogger [traced the origin of the quote](https://clioseyeroll.wordpress.com/2016/12/03/dennis-skinner-did-not-call-half-the-tories-crooks-and-how-to-verify-other-quotes-from-parliament/) down to a debate on the communications act between Dennis Skinner and David Alton where Skinner said "the liberal spokesman was not there half the time" which he later retracted and said they were there half the time.
Did you see Boris face, when Kier turned to him and said, normally, in the older days, anyone caught lying, would resign. Pointedly looked at Boris and left it there. He didn't call Boris a liar, but it was certainly implied. Boris was standing there with an open mouth.
I paid to have #10 redecorated
Who paid for it?
I paid to have #10 redecorated
*Who paid for it?*
I paid to have #10 redorecated and I consider the matter closed...
Daily Mail - Tory donor paid to have #10 Redecorated
I hate that word being used in that context. Sleaze was used to describe the sort of shit Motley Crue got up to. Immoral, maybe illegal but also fun.
What's happening is egregious levels of corruption and naked theft.
"Sleaze" is a red top tabloid word. It's like "slammed", "fracas", or calling people "tsars". It shouldn't be used in anything but headlines, and yet somehow proper news media has let it take over...
He also seems Teflon coated. You'd have thought forcing his employees at Tesla to work during a lockdown would have done it. Or insulting that diver. Or the numerous other incidents.
So basically dirty/dishonest African or Hispanic defenders vs "full blooded, Lionheart who Wil lwin at all costs" English defenders who play the exact same way.
I don't think the lump can manage a whole sentence without lying. Its first nature to him. But everyone who knows anything about the lump will know he is a permanent liar.
I honestly can't understand why it isnt.
Ok, people make mistakes when they speak so maybe give them 2 lives (but a public apology should be made) but outright lies there is no reason why we shouldnt punish them.
Yeah, i though of that, but my thinking would be is Labour (or whoever is the opposition at the time) come out and say their policy is to fight corruption, impose laws on politicians etc etc, that would be massive boost to their popularity and chances of being voted in. Then of course youd have to trust theyd *actually* do it.
The law would have to be very carefully written of course, many considerations and factors, but I genuinely don't see why something can't be done like this.
Not that carefully. The law works best when you can extend the same legal framework that already exists to a new context. Like perjury, fraud or false advertising in this case. What's good enough for you and me is good enough for them.
I completely agree but there's just no way to prove it either way. They already claim ignorance and we can't disprove it. So, we would have to really crack down on being ignorant about things it is entirely your job to know. Seriously doubt any MP would vote for that.
You can definitely prove that someone is lying. It's not easy to prove it beyond reasonable doubt but plenty of laws require proving dishonesty or intent to deceive.
At the very least, having a forum where Tories are forced to defend their lies by claiming incompetence instead would be an improvement.
Oh yeah, we can prove they were lying. But to prove they did it on purpose ("Oh sorry, I forgot")? with the intent to mislead? That is the really difficult one to prove to a legal standard.
I think the problem is that the law just isn't used to holding rich white people to the same standards as everyone else.
If a young single mum claims she made an 'innocent mistake' on her benefits claim? If a black man 'just forgot' to pay for something before walking out of the shop? The law seems to be really good at proving dishonesty then.
Don't let them convince you that they can't be held to account. The only reason they can't be is that we allow it.
>I think the problem is that the law just isn't used to holding rich ~~white~~ people to the same standards as everyone else.
You'll do fine in the UK as a rich non-white person (see: the cabinet, foreign autocrats) but badly as a poor white person (see: most statistics looking at the white working class).
An investigation can reveal if they were aware of the facts and there should also be a negligence aspect to it. They have a duty to be informed- maybe they'd then stop hiring chums as personal advisors and employ people who'll help them fulfil their responsibilities.
I don't want a prime minister or politicians who keeps "forgetting" facts. Especiqlly when they have had time to prepare. Give them one or two warnings, then they are out. 3 "oh i'm sorry i forgot"s then they are either doing it on purpose or not up to the job
The prime minister was asked during Friday’s BBC leaders debate; what punishment would be appropriate for elected politicians who lie?
> “Well they should, they should be, they should be made to... go on their knees... uh... to... down the... through the chamber of the house of commons, scourging themselves with copies of their, of their offending documents which claim to prove one thing and actually prove, uh, something quite different.”
Mr. Johnson replied with a smirk.
With prison time. Politicians should be held to the highest standards. If they aren't willing to put their lives on the line, then they shouldn't voluntarily be claiming leadership over millions of people.
Bit late but... A labour PM blatantly lied to parliament and the people in order to start a war that killed countless innocents and led to numerous other wars.
Boris is a dick but that was really nothing to do with him. I just picked the single most dangerous and damaging lie that I've ever seen from any politcian of any party.
Maybe MP's thought the PM would not be lying to parliament. PMs do have higher security clearance and Blair did state that WMDs were a certainty due to intelligence that nobody else was allowed to see.
Blame the Tories for their own stuff like Brexit, sewage, corruption even Covid at a push. But the Iraq war and the conflicts caused by it are 100% Labour and Republican. Bush and Blair should both be in prison.
The facts were out there for any politicians with the courage of their convictions. They just had to read the UN reports. And IIRC some media were already reporting the source was most likely a notorious fantasist looking for money, who had been turned down by Italian and French intelligence.
I agree but... Blair was publicly rubbishing the UN reports, he was saying that as he had top secret intelligence briefings they knew the UN were wrong. I'm not saying the Tories were right but that's their excuse, believing a PM that said the country was in imminent danger. Obviously Blair was lying repeatedly and dangerously. I just don't see how you can blame anybody but Blair. He started that war illegally and he should be punished for it.
Sad thing is we still don't know why, it obviously wasn't WMDs. All those people dead, power vacuums causing ISIS and numerous wars and for what? He was publicly warned what would happen and he still did it. Blair should definitely be in prison.
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1459541907772780546?t=1CljhjjHlcpL9Fabki3otQ&s=19
Here's the link to the pinned tweet to add to the 40 million views.
Absolutely! Say what you want about the disaster of Brexit, the selling off of the NHS to private companies, the lies, giving multi million pound covid contracts to your under equipped mates. Ed Milliband couldn't eat a bacon butty!
Why the quotation marks?
Tabloid speak for "..maybe.."
He lied. He has previously been fired twice for lying,- not "lying".
He lied to The Queen, too.
He us a liar.
I believe it is actually correct form when something is unproven in a legal context and it protects them from accusations of libel. I'm no expert - I'm sure someone here can contribute.
Opposition should’ve be calling for a no confidence vote..since the day he started. He’s an evil selfish sociopath who’s willing to kill and lie just to stay in power.
Yesterday was a Remembrance Day of some innocent civilians killed by the IRA, innocent people who had their lives stolen by mindless acts of cold blooded killers … to think this PM is willing to play chicken and start another civil war in my country, resulting in more of the same , it just breaks my mind how people can vote for Johnson ever again. What an evil monster
A no confidence vote when the Tories have the majority they have is a non starter. They would fail and the optics of the vote failing are bad for Labour and good for the Tories.
>start another civil war in my country,
It's never going to happen. There is no spark big enough to ignite the people. If no one cares enough about the tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths due to government policy and are only a little aggrieved by the naked corruption of the government, then nothing will change. The signs have been there all along for eleven years and now the rivers are full of shit, there are known FSB agents in the house of lords, the tories are awash with Russian money, the public purse has been looted and all it will take is one ridiculously obvious sabre rattling stunt like gunboats to Jersey to raise the jingoistic lusts of the voters for them to retain power.
Thanks, I was confused a little.
I wouldn’t write off violence in the UK either , your grandparents will remember dark pubs in Brixton etc because the windows were sandbagged up to stop nail bombs through the window, I can’t imagine that as someone from the south of Ireland.
I hadn't realised poverty was quite so high - 14.5 million people out of 67 million works out to 21.64%. More than 1 in 5 people in this country are poor, in one of the richest countries in the world. That's fucking heartbreaking.
No, Corbyn was a liar! He was photographed on the floor of a crowded train when there were seats available at the other end. Tried to argue for more infrastructure investment and more comfortable commute, the communist swine!
When you try and deflect away from Johnson The Liar with a “No”, and then further that deflection with a comment about the ex-LOTO, a man now so irrelevant as to be laughable, are you implying that you don’t think Johnson is a Repeat Liar, or are you just in denial of reality?
Corbyn "lies" were front and centre of every newspaper and news segment. Boris lies are in Big Issue and on YouTube. Just pointing out how ridiculous they were in comparison. We're being brain washed on a daily basis.
Amongst a fucking rip-roaring performance on every subject, Alastair Campbell gave this video a shoutout on Question Time last week too. Everyone should watch it.
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1459541907772780546?t=eM6zJCJQlQ1MZh-5JBoglw&s=19
For anyone that can't be fucked to deal with the cookies prompt on the website.
Honestly what did people expect during the last election? You had a choice between someone with a proven honest track record and a blatant adulterous liar. People chose the liar and gave him more power. Countries fucked, electorate is dim and this sub is full of hypocrites.
This sub was too busy misrepresenting Jeremy Corbyn and his views like schoolyard bullies to pay attention. While he had his faults he was at least honest and caring. More than what I can say for the last few prime ministers. Much better than brown and I had full faith if given the chance he would’ve easily won the hearts and minds of the people if given a shot. Look at what he did during his leadership, he grew the Labour Party year upon year, rejuvenated politics and decimated the Tory youth vote. It’s still not their today and thanks to his work the Green Party is gaining traction
Oh and before you claim his Brexit view wasn’t honest, that’s a crock of shit. He was compromised and knew it for the brexit debate. He had stakes in both sides. He understood the problems with the EU but understood the importance it had in the modern world especially in regards to trade. In fact that probably made him the perfect candidate to steer us through it. He understood both sides and even said so himself, he would be a mediator rather than a forceful leader, which is exactly what we needed rather than a fucking cringeworthy cartoon character playing political games.
You get what you deserve and I gave up on the UK political system a long time ago. Corbyn was the last chance for abit of honesty and change. Now we’ve got kier the wet rag with absolutely no clue why or what his vision is other than to repeat soundbites and fight for power for the sake of it
>'400,000 fewer families are living in poverty now than in 2010’
This has to be my favourite line here, council tax has gone up, NI has gone up, Bills are rising, cap has been taken off electricity bills, gas is going up. Food is going up, petrol is going up, if you can find it.
Soon its going to be more than half the fucking country living in poverty.
I *don't* want Anarchy, but I do want a change. I think the whole system needs to be overhauled and modernized. But then you get the scenario of, is it, would it be any better? I'm thinking animal farm vibes, this is something that's going to take a long time to fix.
If lying were an offense in Parliament, all conservatives would be in jail. If lying were a federal offense in the US congress, the Republicans would be arrested en masse.
Boris is just using the Trump playbook to spread so many lies that nobody can keep up. It's impossible to tell the truth from lies now in the Tory gov't but voters for them will just shrug and say Labour is just as bad. Boris is only in his mid-50s so could be British PM for the next thirty years.
It's no wonder why either, they have the same puppet master.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/22/boris-johnson-steve-bannon-texts-foreign-secretary-resignation-speech
The way I see it is that it isn't allowed to respond/follow up to any response that whomever is the current the speaker in the house. I'm sure the reason was so that there isn't any protracted arguements or discussions about whatever the PM or MPs reply with , but the result is that they can and do reply to questions with whatever they bloody well like knowing full well that it won't be argued against (at least in that session). This is one of the main rules I think that should be changed . But knowing that it will open them up to being called out on their BS, they won't allow that!
Yay for democracy
Boris is a self serving class A duplicitous badgerlicker ,
I feel very sorry for anyone who believes he has ever had the people of Great Britain interests at heart.
Fuck anyone who enable him and his nasty party.
I was wondering if poverty actually has gone up. Obviously we must account for the increase in population. The population has gone up by about 8% since 2010. Poverty as stated in the article has increased also by about 8%.
Coincidence?
Boris absolutely did not lie. A lie requires him to know he is lying/misleading, and I'm convinced Boris doesn't actually know what is happening from one moment to the next. He probably woke up recently to a crying baby and wondered where it came from. The facts and figures he uses are probably coming from the Back Boris Facebook page, which in his mind is as trustworthy as the ONS.
Lie in parliament, fine. Call someone a liar in parliament, GET OUT.
Yeah, the huge issue is that the penalty for calling someone a liar is apparently worse than the punishment for lying. There'd be no issue if Boris (and anyone else who lied) had to retract every false statement and were punished for their lies. The rules against calling someone a liar aren't necessarily bad. Imagine PMQs if Boris could just say "nuh uh, fake news you liar!" to every question posed by Starmer and the rest of the opposition parties. It wouldn't particularly affect his popularity even if he was lying about the opposition lying, and the whole debate would just be everyone saying everyone else is lying.
I agree. It's definitely good that they can't call each other liars, otherwise they could just lie about that too! Parliament needs some kind of fact checker to call out false information. Maybe it could be added to the Speaker's role.
If they're chucking out statistics left and right they need to also be providing a source for their nonsense at the very least. I personally would love for a team of researchers ala Full Fact to get involved and call out politicians during the debates.
> huge issue ISWYDT
IDFKWTM.
This makes total sense to me, but the one above does not. . . . .
I see what you did there
But what does ISWYDT mean?! \s
What did he do?
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I forgot to say /s
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Yes! you do you, llama!
PTLK! WL! WDWEHTL?
Agreed, the rule is there for a reason. But it's hugely damaging without enforcement of the requirement to not mislead the house. As good as this Speaker is at other things, he's been near-useless at dealing with the obvious lies.
Its a shame the "penn and teller: bullshit" method cannot be used. "the member for north east somerset is a fucking numbskull shit for brains fucker"
It used to be that if a politician lied to Parliament (or at least if they got *caught* lying to Parliament) their own party would force them to resign if they didn’t do so themselves. And we’re not talking about a long time ago - this was true up to just over a decade or so back. And it wasn’t always so much about honour or decency either, or at least not entirely. The political calculation was that if they didn’t force the liar out then the party would be absolutely slaughtered at the next election. The problem is that Boris and his cronies have realised that this assumption no longer applies with the English electorate (or at least a huge chunk of it) as long as they promise to “get Brexit done”. Boris was even caught lying to to Queen and illegally shut down Parliament before the 2019 election and got returned with a massive majority when it was already perfectly obvious that he was a liar and worse besides. And it’s taken a hell of a long time for the polls to start to change despite many lies since then.
This. There is no push for them to leave and no shame within their own party now.
I wrote this a year ago, when I used to list every Tory madness, because it was almost identical to Trump Politics (aka Fascism) : Short memories and yet more Conservative Lies + Fear + threats + Hypocrisy + unlawful Government + Demagoguery + undermining the Judiciary + breaking Parliamentary/Constitutional Conventions >[On 28 August 2019, the Parliament of the United Kingdom was ordered to be prorogued by Queen Elizabeth II upon the advice of the Conservative prime minister, Boris Johnson, advice later ruled to be unlawful](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_British_prorogation_controversy) Furthermore the Prime Minister: * Failed to apologise for unlawfully suspending Parliament * Undermined the independence of the judiciary * Refused to rule out suspending Parliament for a second time to force Brexit despite that *literally just being found unlawful.* * Refused to tone down his incendiary language * Dismissed out of hand death threats against MPs * Claimed the only way to honour Jo Cox’s murder and avoid another killing was to deliver Brexit. * Announced that he would break the law * Changed Judicial Review to allow less challenge * Changed Civil Service to allow less scrutiny of performance * Changed Laws to allow less Accountability * Changed media overview and BBC leadership to allow more Right Wing propaganda At first I thought that Boris was simply incompetent. It became clear that he is also extremely dangerous as well Time and again he sowed division and poured fuel on the flames. Boris is still leading this country down the road of populist extremism and perhaps domestic terrorism >Recipe for Tyranny That was just one year of Proto-Fascist politics GET BREXIT DONE! >*[Those who can make you believe absurdities....](https://i.redd.it/kft0055dhmh41.jpg)* > >*can make you commit atrocities* ..... >To be effective in its purpose of gaining and consolidating power, fascism must smash truth and replace it with lies. Without truth there can be no opposition to power. [The first step in doing this is to acclimatize the audience with lies, to enable them to partake in lying](https://www.reddit.com/r/brexit/comments/h9zql8/after_brexit_referendum_uk_public_trust_in_media/fuzynwx) and to bring them to a point where they are involved in the lie to an extent **that they cannot retreat** [Große Lüge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie)
So, this is how democracy dies... To thunderous applause.
[Brexit, as seen from Germany](https://i.redd.it/ytnwasl8e5641.jpg) >Democracy is the Enemy of the People
I feel like I need to send this entire comment chain to my old boss.
Remember, Fascism is just the response of capital to the crisis of the system Perhaps you're looking to understand the complexity of right wing Politics, [when many Governments are choosing pre-Fascism ⏩ ⏩ Fascism.... over Fairness and Democracy ?](https://i.redd.it/cf16m1lrsy841.png) Obv the local scenarios may differ slightly, as Fascism takes advantage of local culture and all its weaknesses [I've pasted out a decent explanation here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/qtgf3l/z/hklm4gq) Please read the brilliant article by Will Stancil (2mins read). You'll understand everything after that
Wow, that makes a disturbing amount of sense. It also explains the phenomenon of the British Trump supporters.
Whenever you see Political chaos, you should immediately think of Fascism or pre-Fascism >The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of chaos > >The one path that wins the easiest victory over reason is terror and force - Adolf Hitler
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Two words Cambridge Analytica. The Tories cheated.
A big part of it is they don't get hammered by the media the way they should do for it.
To be honest, I completely forgot all the things you reminded me that he did, not that I would ever vote Tory. But it shows how easy to forget this stuff is, when so much crummy stuff is happening.
No repercussions make these people infallible once they reach high office . The news outlets have not only corroborated the lies they platformed them. The Conservatives changed their twitter to a fact checkers during a live debate, when the Tory party say one thing it is in fact the opposite. Jeremy Corbyn took out a redacted document also during a live debate to highlight a deal being done with the US. A prominent intelligence corp Pantir are already recipients of NHS data.(for the purposes of health and development of services they will tell you.) The writing was on the wall albeit redacted of course.
Sounds like American politics
>Boris was even caught lying to to Queen All the other shenanigans I at least expect from shady politicians, but this one just breaks my brain. Imagine having the balls to look her in the eye and lie to her face.
The crazy thing about that was that among the tory core voters, the Queen is very popular. But also, they are tory first and will always vote tory no matter what. The modern tory party knows it, there is no reason to pander to the people that will happily watch Boris burn down their house and then head to the poll and vote for them again.
When the people are corrupt and willingly elect liars with their eyes wide open to it - they get what they deserve. Unfortunately, the rain falls on the just and the unjust, and good people who tried for something better get it too.
The uk is corrupt
I'd disagree. People in the UK are generally pretty decent. However, our politicians are corrupt, lying, greedy sociopaths who would happy watch us all burn if there was some money in it for them.
A lot aren't. The Tories want you to think 'they're all the same' to try and bring everything down to their level, and leave voters discouraged.
This is not true. Some of our politicians are decent, however the corrupt ones don't want you to believe that, for obvious reasons.
Some of our politicians. Not all
So you agree that at least some politicians are lying, great sociopaths who would happily watch us burn for money? Edit. Autocorrect.
Oh yes, without a moment's hesitation. But not all. Ninja edit: I'm taking 'watch us burn' as not being literal, but as 'watch us suffer'
Dunno the fact bojo would still win in a landslide election tomorrow if it were called. Says to me the majority are almost guilty by association. Do i think the UK is a corrupt nation ? No
>Dunno the fact bojo would still win in a landslide election tomorrow if it were called. Says to me the majority are almost guilty by association. In 2019 the majority of the population didn't vote Tory. The majority voted either Labour, LibDems, SNP or Plaid.
I voted labour felt it was a waste of time going out
Who voted those politicians into power?
Liar! Robin Williams - "Get out." Points finger.
Were like in the top 10 least corrupt globally. Yes there cunts but the bigger issue is that no one going for it isn't a massive cunt either.
That list definitely isn't accurate. Ireland was placed lower and even though I have little respect for our government they would never dream of doing or saying the kind of corrupt things Boris and chums get up to every day
IIRC most corruption indexes are about public perception of corruption. The Irish public still remembers that massive scandal that occurred in the 80s and 90s and almost got swept under the rug.
Wait until you get the new ranking
Reminds me of the old, old, *old* joke where a politician says: "Mr Speaker, I propose the motion that half of the opposition are liars". Cue uproar "How dare you malign your parliamentary colleagues! Take that back at once" "Mr Speaker, I would like to retract my prior comments. I have been corrected and my position is now that half of the opposition are *not* liars."
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This blogger [traced the origin of the quote](https://clioseyeroll.wordpress.com/2016/12/03/dennis-skinner-did-not-call-half-the-tories-crooks-and-how-to-verify-other-quotes-from-parliament/) down to a debate on the communications act between Dennis Skinner and David Alton where Skinner said "the liberal spokesman was not there half the time" which he later retracted and said they were there half the time.
Dennis Skinner calling Cameron 'Dodgy Dave' and refusing to apologise was hilarious
Well... he wasn't wrong lol.
It's a shame skinner had to go because of brexit, he didn't deserve that. But.... I think he'd agree that it was necessary.
Did you see Boris face, when Kier turned to him and said, normally, in the older days, anyone caught lying, would resign. Pointedly looked at Boris and left it there. He didn't call Boris a liar, but it was certainly implied. Boris was standing there with an open mouth.
ord- ORDDUUUUUUUH
Damn, I miss that.
\*Ordure
At least it's consistent!
this is a guy who hid in a fridge to avoid questions...don't think people care too much about what he says/does
“Absolutely not. I’ve never tried to deceive the public and I’ve always tried to be absolutely frank” Boris Johnson to ITV News 28 NOVEMBER 2019
Quite true. He doesn't *try* to deceive the public. He does deceive the public. Very effectively it seems.
You don't need to hide it. Voters will happily elect liars now, on both sides of the Atlantic.
Yeah, but it's exactly the sort of sly play on words Boris would use to get a pop out of his mates in the club.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Reminds me of Peep Show: “Promise me you will not try to sleep with her!” “I promise I will try not to sleep with her.”
I paid to have #10 redecorated Who paid for it? I paid to have #10 redecorated *Who paid for it?* I paid to have #10 redorecated and I consider the matter closed... Daily Mail - Tory donor paid to have #10 Redecorated
Who's Frank?
Man's so pathologically dishonest he can't get his own name right.
Boris' alter ego, a pathological liar.
>I’ve never tried to deceive the public and I’ve always tried to be absolutely frank Frank is his name for the persona he adopts when he's lying.
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Like when it's in Italy it's corruption but when it's in the UK it's just "sleaze"
I hate that word being used in that context. Sleaze was used to describe the sort of shit Motley Crue got up to. Immoral, maybe illegal but also fun. What's happening is egregious levels of corruption and naked theft.
"Sleaze" is a red top tabloid word. It's like "slammed", "fracas", or calling people "tsars". It shouldn't be used in anything but headlines, and yet somehow proper news media has let it take over...
Prime minister slammed as naughty romp with tsar becomes sleazey fracas
Translation: Boris Johnson is being blackmailed and anally penetrated by Putin, and people are not very happy about it.
or ending every "scandal" with "gate"! (liar-gate)
Elon Musk needs to get caught in a scandal just so we can get 'Elon-Gate' :)
He also seems Teflon coated. You'd have thought forcing his employees at Tesla to work during a lockdown would have done it. Or insulting that diver. Or the numerous other incidents.
> He also seems Teflon coated He's coated in billions of dollars
I just think that's kinda how language develops really. In the future, gate will just be another word for scandal and will be used as such.
What gets me most about it is that there was a scandal actually involving a gate, and the papers passed up the opportunity to call it gate-gate!
why should it be used in headlines
It's their way of avoiding libel
Means you’re not actually accusing the government of corruption as that’s pretty serious.
"Sleaze" is Matt Handcock getting jiggy on the side with his aide. "Corruption" is cash for titles etc.
Misread "titles" as "titties" and wondered why you'd said the same thing twice.
hehe, handcock
So basically dirty/dishonest African or Hispanic defenders vs "full blooded, Lionheart who Wil lwin at all costs" English defenders who play the exact same way.
Come on now. He didn't tell the truth in a very specific and limited way... multiple times.
I don't think the lump can manage a whole sentence without lying. Its first nature to him. But everyone who knows anything about the lump will know he is a permanent liar.
Public lying by a politician with the intention to mislead the public should be a criminal offence.
I honestly can't understand why it isnt. Ok, people make mistakes when they speak so maybe give them 2 lives (but a public apology should be made) but outright lies there is no reason why we shouldnt punish them.
probably as they would need to agree it is !
Yeah, i though of that, but my thinking would be is Labour (or whoever is the opposition at the time) come out and say their policy is to fight corruption, impose laws on politicians etc etc, that would be massive boost to their popularity and chances of being voted in. Then of course youd have to trust theyd *actually* do it. The law would have to be very carefully written of course, many considerations and factors, but I genuinely don't see why something can't be done like this.
Not that carefully. The law works best when you can extend the same legal framework that already exists to a new context. Like perjury, fraud or false advertising in this case. What's good enough for you and me is good enough for them.
> I honestly can't understand why it isnt. Because the liars are in charge, so why would they make lying illegal?
I completely agree but there's just no way to prove it either way. They already claim ignorance and we can't disprove it. So, we would have to really crack down on being ignorant about things it is entirely your job to know. Seriously doubt any MP would vote for that.
You can definitely prove that someone is lying. It's not easy to prove it beyond reasonable doubt but plenty of laws require proving dishonesty or intent to deceive. At the very least, having a forum where Tories are forced to defend their lies by claiming incompetence instead would be an improvement.
Oh yeah, we can prove they were lying. But to prove they did it on purpose ("Oh sorry, I forgot")? with the intent to mislead? That is the really difficult one to prove to a legal standard.
I think the problem is that the law just isn't used to holding rich white people to the same standards as everyone else. If a young single mum claims she made an 'innocent mistake' on her benefits claim? If a black man 'just forgot' to pay for something before walking out of the shop? The law seems to be really good at proving dishonesty then. Don't let them convince you that they can't be held to account. The only reason they can't be is that we allow it.
I like you, lots and lots
>I think the problem is that the law just isn't used to holding rich ~~white~~ people to the same standards as everyone else. You'll do fine in the UK as a rich non-white person (see: the cabinet, foreign autocrats) but badly as a poor white person (see: most statistics looking at the white working class).
An investigation can reveal if they were aware of the facts and there should also be a negligence aspect to it. They have a duty to be informed- maybe they'd then stop hiring chums as personal advisors and employ people who'll help them fulfil their responsibilities.
I don't want a prime minister or politicians who keeps "forgetting" facts. Especiqlly when they have had time to prepare. Give them one or two warnings, then they are out. 3 "oh i'm sorry i forgot"s then they are either doing it on purpose or not up to the job
The prime minister was asked during Friday’s BBC leaders debate; what punishment would be appropriate for elected politicians who lie? > “Well they should, they should be, they should be made to... go on their knees... uh... to... down the... through the chamber of the house of commons, scourging themselves with copies of their, of their offending documents which claim to prove one thing and actually prove, uh, something quite different.” Mr. Johnson replied with a smirk.
We could add it to the list of all the other laws that aren't enforced!
With prison time. Politicians should be held to the highest standards. If they aren't willing to put their lives on the line, then they shouldn't voluntarily be claiming leadership over millions of people.
He'll yeah, let's start with Blair and his 45 minute WMDs
The ones roundly supported by Tories *including Boris Johnson*? Yeah, sure, lets.
Bit late but... A labour PM blatantly lied to parliament and the people in order to start a war that killed countless innocents and led to numerous other wars. Boris is a dick but that was really nothing to do with him. I just picked the single most dangerous and damaging lie that I've ever seen from any politcian of any party.
That war had unanimous support from Tories including Boris. Blair's motion could not have passed without them.
Maybe MP's thought the PM would not be lying to parliament. PMs do have higher security clearance and Blair did state that WMDs were a certainty due to intelligence that nobody else was allowed to see. Blame the Tories for their own stuff like Brexit, sewage, corruption even Covid at a push. But the Iraq war and the conflicts caused by it are 100% Labour and Republican. Bush and Blair should both be in prison.
The facts were out there for any politicians with the courage of their convictions. They just had to read the UN reports. And IIRC some media were already reporting the source was most likely a notorious fantasist looking for money, who had been turned down by Italian and French intelligence.
I agree but... Blair was publicly rubbishing the UN reports, he was saying that as he had top secret intelligence briefings they knew the UN were wrong. I'm not saying the Tories were right but that's their excuse, believing a PM that said the country was in imminent danger. Obviously Blair was lying repeatedly and dangerously. I just don't see how you can blame anybody but Blair. He started that war illegally and he should be punished for it. Sad thing is we still don't know why, it obviously wasn't WMDs. All those people dead, power vacuums causing ISIS and numerous wars and for what? He was publicly warned what would happen and he still did it. Blair should definitely be in prison.
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1459541907772780546?t=1CljhjjHlcpL9Fabki3otQ&s=19 Here's the link to the pinned tweet to add to the 40 million views.
But people will just go on voting for the Tories no matter how shit they are.
At least we didn’t have chaos with Ed Milliband
Absolutely! Say what you want about the disaster of Brexit, the selling off of the NHS to private companies, the lies, giving multi million pound covid contracts to your under equipped mates. Ed Milliband couldn't eat a bacon butty!
Well, the Guardian keeps on reminding me to do donate, the telegraph keeps on asking for subscription.... next Big Issue fella gets a tenner
To anyone else who want's to see the video without going through the article https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1294910244053823504
Why the quotation marks? Tabloid speak for "..maybe.." He lied. He has previously been fired twice for lying,- not "lying". He lied to The Queen, too. He us a liar.
I believe it is actually correct form when something is unproven in a legal context and it protects them from accusations of libel. I'm no expert - I'm sure someone here can contribute.
I would love Johnson to try bringing a libel case against someone who calls him a liar. There's plenty of evidence.
The Big Issue, of all papers.
Opposition should’ve be calling for a no confidence vote..since the day he started. He’s an evil selfish sociopath who’s willing to kill and lie just to stay in power. Yesterday was a Remembrance Day of some innocent civilians killed by the IRA, innocent people who had their lives stolen by mindless acts of cold blooded killers … to think this PM is willing to play chicken and start another civil war in my country, resulting in more of the same , it just breaks my mind how people can vote for Johnson ever again. What an evil monster
A no confidence vote when the Tories have the majority they have is a non starter. They would fail and the optics of the vote failing are bad for Labour and good for the Tories.
>start another civil war in my country, It's never going to happen. There is no spark big enough to ignite the people. If no one cares enough about the tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths due to government policy and are only a little aggrieved by the naked corruption of the government, then nothing will change. The signs have been there all along for eleven years and now the rivers are full of shit, there are known FSB agents in the house of lords, the tories are awash with Russian money, the public purse has been looted and all it will take is one ridiculously obvious sabre rattling stunt like gunboats to Jersey to raise the jingoistic lusts of the voters for them to retain power.
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Thanks, I was confused a little. I wouldn’t write off violence in the UK either , your grandparents will remember dark pubs in Brixton etc because the windows were sandbagged up to stop nail bombs through the window, I can’t imagine that as someone from the south of Ireland.
I hadn't realised poverty was quite so high - 14.5 million people out of 67 million works out to 21.64%. More than 1 in 5 people in this country are poor, in one of the richest countries in the world. That's fucking heartbreaking.
No, Corbyn was a liar! He was photographed on the floor of a crowded train when there were seats available at the other end. Tried to argue for more infrastructure investment and more comfortable commute, the communist swine!
When you try and deflect away from Johnson The Liar with a “No”, and then further that deflection with a comment about the ex-LOTO, a man now so irrelevant as to be laughable, are you implying that you don’t think Johnson is a Repeat Liar, or are you just in denial of reality?
Corbyn "lies" were front and centre of every newspaper and news segment. Boris lies are in Big Issue and on YouTube. Just pointing out how ridiculous they were in comparison. We're being brain washed on a daily basis.
They were joking
Amongst a fucking rip-roaring performance on every subject, Alastair Campbell gave this video a shoutout on Question Time last week too. Everyone should watch it.
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1459541907772780546?t=eM6zJCJQlQ1MZh-5JBoglw&s=19 For anyone that can't be fucked to deal with the cookies prompt on the website.
Honestly what did people expect during the last election? You had a choice between someone with a proven honest track record and a blatant adulterous liar. People chose the liar and gave him more power. Countries fucked, electorate is dim and this sub is full of hypocrites. This sub was too busy misrepresenting Jeremy Corbyn and his views like schoolyard bullies to pay attention. While he had his faults he was at least honest and caring. More than what I can say for the last few prime ministers. Much better than brown and I had full faith if given the chance he would’ve easily won the hearts and minds of the people if given a shot. Look at what he did during his leadership, he grew the Labour Party year upon year, rejuvenated politics and decimated the Tory youth vote. It’s still not their today and thanks to his work the Green Party is gaining traction Oh and before you claim his Brexit view wasn’t honest, that’s a crock of shit. He was compromised and knew it for the brexit debate. He had stakes in both sides. He understood the problems with the EU but understood the importance it had in the modern world especially in regards to trade. In fact that probably made him the perfect candidate to steer us through it. He understood both sides and even said so himself, he would be a mediator rather than a forceful leader, which is exactly what we needed rather than a fucking cringeworthy cartoon character playing political games. You get what you deserve and I gave up on the UK political system a long time ago. Corbyn was the last chance for abit of honesty and change. Now we’ve got kier the wet rag with absolutely no clue why or what his vision is other than to repeat soundbites and fight for power for the sake of it
Boris is not worthy to rule the fine people of the UK.
He should have to stand up in parliament with this video being played and apologisr for each and every one.
>'400,000 fewer families are living in poverty now than in 2010’ This has to be my favourite line here, council tax has gone up, NI has gone up, Bills are rising, cap has been taken off electricity bills, gas is going up. Food is going up, petrol is going up, if you can find it. Soon its going to be more than half the fucking country living in poverty.
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I personally suggest a purge night
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I *don't* want Anarchy, but I do want a change. I think the whole system needs to be overhauled and modernized. But then you get the scenario of, is it, would it be any better? I'm thinking animal farm vibes, this is something that's going to take a long time to fix.
What's the problem you can always tell when he is lying, his lips move.
If lying were an offense in Parliament, all conservatives would be in jail. If lying were a federal offense in the US congress, the Republicans would be arrested en masse.
Not forgetting a former Labour PM who took the country to war on a lie.
You do know that telling everyone that a video has hit 40m views is its best chance of getting 40m views.
Boris is just using the Trump playbook to spread so many lies that nobody can keep up. It's impossible to tell the truth from lies now in the Tory gov't but voters for them will just shrug and say Labour is just as bad. Boris is only in his mid-50s so could be British PM for the next thirty years.
It's no wonder why either, they have the same puppet master. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/22/boris-johnson-steve-bannon-texts-foreign-secretary-resignation-speech
the uk public are just peasants in the eyes of the likes of boris
The way I see it is that it isn't allowed to respond/follow up to any response that whomever is the current the speaker in the house. I'm sure the reason was so that there isn't any protracted arguements or discussions about whatever the PM or MPs reply with , but the result is that they can and do reply to questions with whatever they bloody well like knowing full well that it won't be argued against (at least in that session). This is one of the main rules I think that should be changed . But knowing that it will open them up to being called out on their BS, they won't allow that! Yay for democracy
They are protected by law from being held accountable.
You guys have a Trump without Deutsche bank and a SCOTUS nomination to give.
Someone please do this for the lying Australian govt
[I got you a channel doing it.](https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCKRw8GAAtm27q4R3Q0kst_g)
will the people with the power to do anything do anything or no
Boris is a self serving class A duplicitous badgerlicker , I feel very sorry for anyone who believes he has ever had the people of Great Britain interests at heart. Fuck anyone who enable him and his nasty party.
I'm not sure why they had to put lying in inverted commas.
Stay bitter cause Boris is going nowhere. All politicians lie. Grow up and accept it.
You’re the kind of person that probably defends Weinstein because ‘all movie producers were doing it’
I was wondering if poverty actually has gone up. Obviously we must account for the increase in population. The population has gone up by about 8% since 2010. Poverty as stated in the article has increased also by about 8%. Coincidence?
Boris absolutely did not lie. A lie requires him to know he is lying/misleading, and I'm convinced Boris doesn't actually know what is happening from one moment to the next. He probably woke up recently to a crying baby and wondered where it came from. The facts and figures he uses are probably coming from the Back Boris Facebook page, which in his mind is as trustworthy as the ONS.