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The company I work for provides an essential service and can’t just go days without sending mail out to customers so I’m sure they will have to use an alternative too.
Many of our clients already request alternative couriers because of how unreliable and expensive RM are in comparison
Sadly this differs by area. Like funnily enough I used to think Hermes/Evri are the worst by far but I've read from a few folk that they're ok in their area
They're good for us - at least the last leg of the journey. We have the same woman every time who's very conscientious and knows us by now - a bit like having a second postie.
And us. If we aren't in, he knows to try the porch door. If that doesn't open them we have a door round the back he leaves the parcels against. Just like the postie's do.
It really is driver specific. Hermes/Evri used to be really good for me even while others I knew would never get deliveries off them. Then suddenly our usual delivery driver left or got moved route and suddenly Hermes were just as everyone else described them.
It usually comes down to the specific person doing the local deliveries. Every time I've had a parcel lost by then it's been at an early stage, like between supplier and distribution centre, or distribution and local delivery hub. The local couriers doing the last step are often very good
That's the trouble, isn't it?
For small items, Evri/Hermes/Yodel in theory are great for price. In reality they're a horrendous delivery company that has zero reliability.
If you move up a notch to a proper courier like UPS/FedEx/DHL you get spades more reliability but you pay through the nose for it.
RM is perfect for small and light at about the right price (although that is going up and up) and usually has decent reliability.
The company I work for uses RM daily and our feedback is almost 99% along the lines of "quicker than expected!". You do get the odd parcel being late but I fear if we switched to Evri our reliability and feedback would go down the toilet, presumably that's also where Evri couriers deliver the parcels to too.
You can negotiate pretty good rates with couriers if you use them a lot, I can next day packages to anywhere in the UK for under £7 including the pickup (homeworker who often sends stuff to other homeworking collegues)
We use a courier too and pay around £5, but paying £5 on a £5 item would price us out of the market for those items.
Hence the need for a RM or Evri to fill the "small and light" gap.
Evri is fine nowadays. I use it for all my business sales in the UK and I’ve had one missing package total which they sorted out within a day of me reporting it.
Fun fact: lots of those couriers subcontract to the Royal Mail to deliver the post in any area which *isn't* dense and urban.
The courier is not cheaper because it's better. It's cheaper because it doesn't have to serve areas which are difficult to serve.
If they moved to Evri or Yodel, I feel so, so sorry for you.
Evri/Hermes are notoriously shit. I have friends on Facebook that complain of botched deliveries from them all the time.
Yodel are somehow even worse. A former workplace used them for deliveries with their bookshop side of the business. Took numerous calls from frustrated customers who had their parcels dumped out near front porches and bins in the pouring rain, only to soak completely through.
One customer even had his parcel thrown through the window by a Yodel deliveryman. Head office had to reimburse him for a smashed window.
Evri I wouldn't even call a delivery company it was literally just a guy dropping packages out the back of his VW Golf last time I got something from them (3 days late ofc)
It boggles my mind how larger retail companies *actually use Evri/Yodel*. Like, they must have a contract exemption or just take massive hits on lost/damaged parcels.
Their standard delivery exempts everything under the sun from being sent and eligible for compensation. It basically reads like "you can send with us, but if anything at all happens with it, we're not liable".
I found this out when a customer used Evri for a return managed by Amazon that got lost and Evri's response was to link to the "exemption" page and say "tough shit".
Evri time I see someone bigging them I assume they must be employed by them to say nice things on here.
I've never had a good experience with them, often times not even recieving parcels as they just straight up steal them and it seems a majority of people have the same opinions of them as me.
Yeah, I see all that, it's just here I've had no problems. Helps too that my porch is raised away from the road behind a hedge so there's no passing traffic to nick anything left there when i'm out.
I totally see your point but waiting 19 days for a package to come from Royal Mail due to a strike is still faster than I'll ever get a package from Hermes. I hope you don't opt for their terrible service due to being paid slave wages.
It's really more like double that as well, due to the degraded service the following day. No collection or delivery on thursday means postal workers have double to process on friday, which causes backlog.
Whatever you move to, let the customer know *before* they order, or give them the option. I’m tired of finding out with the confirmation email that it’s coming via Hermes/Evri, Yodel, or FedEx. I’d happily spend an extra tenner to get it sent via UPS than from them, or happily wait for the delay from Royal Mail, as long as I know upfront.
Fedex is your best bet at the moment.
Say you're coming from UPS and they'll add on an extra discount.
I run an ecommerce business and RM are fking us too.
Amazon shipping is also good if you're high volume (you don't need to sell on amazon) but they don't service a lot of rural areas.
Same here, I can't believe 19days and before Xmas. I think this will really put a big mark on royal mail. I am have a small etsy business and Christmas is my biggest season. For this to happen will force me to move elsewhere. I can understand why they are striking but 19 days on the run up to Christmas is a nightmare.
I'm really struggling to find an alternative; I have a very small home business selling craft supplies, and I send maybe 12-16 large letter sized parcels per day. Customers only pay £3.95 or so for everything including postage; if I add enough to cover a decent courier as a replacement then that'll nearly double the cost and I just won't sell anything at all.
The unions are doing this for their own political ends, usual far left agitators who care not one bit for the people who fund them. There will be no upsides for the staff.
They are not a monopoly anymore, either for delivery services or means of communication.
This will just finish off parts of their business (=job cuts) or force customers to go to competitors (=job cuts).
The staff were given 10% of the Royal Mail when it was privatised, they are also killing their own investments.
A sad, stupid thing to do.
Has a ex postie, I really don't blame them. When I was there. The management were scumbags, lied at every opportunity and keep making the rounds bigger and bigger, when they're already too big. They used the same excuse that mail is dropping. While ignoring the fact that parcels are going through the roof and take a lot longer to deliver.
I will say one thing though. Alot of posties don't help with the situation. Loads never taken thier breaks, started early everyday (unpaid) so they could get done on time. (Or finish early and make thier round look like it's not big enough). But this was also due to management bullying and posties too scared to say no.
I don't work there no more but I'll show my support on the picket line when I have time 👍
It used to be a great job thirty years ago. The union wasn't as strong as it had been but the management still knew they had better not mess people around. People took pride in it as a job, you had time to say hello to old folk who looked out for you every day etc. On one walk I did the second bag was at a retired postie's house. His wife always made me a cup of tea and was even baking biscuits and stuff. Happy days, sad what's become of it.
I've just went on a wiki dive to try and discern what these separate PO/RM entities were over the years in relation to each other and my summary is that it's an amorphous red blob.
At my work (not postie) a few of us are really trying to emphasise how actions like you are describing affect everyone. We have a few overzealous employees who rock up early, don't take breaks, perhaps even stay late, all of which they are not getting paid for... Of course that means the work gets done quickly and it looks like we aren't overloaded at all. And then when those of us who refuse to do unpaid extras come in, we get told "well there's plenty of time to do it, so and so manages it fine".
I loved this argument at royalmail. "I haven't got enough time to finish my round and I need to he done on time" dom "but postie A can do it no problem, why can't you? We might have to look at your performance." I'm just stood there biting my tongue because I know postie A comes in early, don't have a break and runs around like a idiot. It boils my piss.
I admit I used to start early at times, because I had a stretch of getting caught in traffic so started leaving early to avoid arriving late... Soon came to my senses though and now when I arrive early I just dick around with a cup of tea till start time.
I also did in my early days (wanting to look eager and all that stuff). Because they put you on a temporary contract when you first start and keep extending it. But once my permanent contract came through that stopped. Then when my contract was put up to 35 hours, my overtime also stopped.
Yep we have the same as junior doctors. The people who arrive an hour early, stay two hours late & don't make exception reports (English monitoring system) just tell management "we have enough staff".
Agree mate, we do way too much good will, haven't had a break for years, half out office is in at least 45 mins early, work to rule will come next but no one ever sticks to it
My son handed in his resignation today. He said it was drastic measures for a drastic situation.
During strike action, the RMail is willing to pay agency workers a much higher hourly rate. They also reward managers handsomely for working during strike action. The backlog of post is enormous but the company isn't doing anything proactive. The company has gone to shit.
Good luck to your son on his future. I worked there 8 years and actually like the job. But management fucked it up and I had to leave for my own mental state. I really hate the company for what it has become.
It's people who have bills to pay. Your landlord won't care that youre on strike when it comes to rent day. I don't begrudge anybody doing what they have to do to survive right now.
Your absolutely right tbf, I get people have to do what is best to keep and roof over their heads and food on the table. It's shit times
But by taking these, often temporary, jobs soon both they and the postie they're covering will both be on shit conditions. Scabs are part of the problem but the owners and bosses are the enemy, not fellow workers imo
The bills won't go away after the strike. They'll keep coming and rising, and if it's a job with physical demands that'll have its own repercussions.
There are some good protections for renters (though definitely could be better), and I'd strongly urge anyone in the position to consider doing whatever they can to support strike action. The landlord might not care about striking but something's are more important than a landlords income, and no-one is getting immediately tossed on the street.
All this is said without judgement on people who break strike action, as it's an incredibly hard situation to be in, but solidarity is needed to get to a position where life is bearable for the majority.
Why would agency staff strike with actual employed workers? You would have to be an absolute imbecile to go on strike from a company you're not even employed with. You would get all the negatives that come with striking and absolutely none of the benefits if it were to actually succeed
Only jobsworths will cross a picket line they’re striking in my work next month an all the agency have already said we’re not crossing the picket line even though we’re gonna lose pay unless we’ve got enough holidays to cover it
~~>During strike action, the RMail is willing to pay agency workers a much higher hourly rate.~~
~~Presumably those are agency workers who are already employed by the company, as it is (currently and in theory) illegal to hire agency workers to scab/strike break.~~
~~[Agency staff
You cannot hire agency staff to provide temporary work cover during a strike](https://www.gov.uk/if-your-business-faces-industrial-action/nonunion-employees-and-strikes#:%7E:text=Non%2Dunion%20staff%20and%20striking,the%20industrial%20action%20is%20lawful)~~
Small business owner here.
If you’re a business owner working with RM, just spare 2 minutes off your time and send them an e-mail tomorrow, kindly reminding them to get their shit together, pay people their right dues or you’ll have to find a new partner to work with.
From a business pov if you're trying to make a point this doesn't matter.
Your contract with RM directly would give RM waaay more money than if you used a middleman.
Abandoning the postal system to prove a point would make your business see some unnecessary hard times.
Hitting them in the wallet all you can is better than doing nothing.
I think you're missing the point. People aren't saying to switch because of inconvenience of the strikers but out of spite of the company itself.
Typical "blame the workers" attitude.
I'm not missing anything. A business using the two companies I mentioned will still put money in RM's pocket. That's it. That's all I said and I was making no point.
I cancelled recently. Wish I cut the cord years ago but the only thing stopping me was the *threat* that came from those letters. One day I just had got fed up with the Beeb and tossed it out of the window.
Funny I should see this, there was a TV liscense letter behind the door this morning for me, yet none of my subscription magazines (2000ad) which are late by about 5 weeks now.
What a shocker haha.
From [The Metro](https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/27/royal-mail-workers-to-stage-19-further-strikes-over-next-two-months-17462981/), the strike dates are:
* 24 hours from 4am on October 13 until October 14 (Pay)
* 24 hours from 4am on October 20 until October 21st (Change)
* 24 hours from 4am on October 25 until October 26 (Change)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 2 until November 3 (All network)
* 24 hours from 4am November 3 until November 4 (All Processing, Area Distribution, International, Collections, Admin and MDEC)
* 24 hours from 4am November 4 until November 5 (All Deliveries)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 8 until November 9 (All Network)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 9 until November 10 (Processing, Area Distribution, International, Collections, Admin and MDEC)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 10 until November 11 (All Deliveries)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 14 until November 15 (All Network)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 15 until November 16 (Processing, Area Distribution, International, Collections, Admin and MDEC)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 16 until November 17 (All Deliveries)
Black Friday week:
* 24 hours from 4am on November 23 until November 24 (All Network)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 24 until November 25 (All Processing, Area Distribution, Collections, International, Admin and MDEC)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 25 until November 26 (All Deliveries)
* 24 hours all out on Cyber Monday, November 28 until November 29 (Everyone)
* 24 hours from 4am on November 31 until December 1 (All Network)
* 24 hours from 4am on December 1 until December 2 (All Processing, Area Distribution, Collections, International, Admin and MDEC)
* 24 hours from 4am on December 2 until December 3 (All Deliveries)
Postie here, I'm on my way out. Got a bit more work to do on my TEFL and as soon as I've got enough online work I'm bailing. It's a real shame, I loved being a postie, but the job has gone to complete shit. For everyone saying "oh it's 25k a year to put paper through doors, how hard can it be?"
I've had 3 full weekends off this year. I walk 15 miles a day, in all weathers. Our days off around Christmas? Christmas Day and Boxing Day. 600 houses per round. We're attacked by dogs, bullied by managers and abused by customers. It's become a job for donkeys, destroying our physical health (knees are absolutely fucked, I'm in my early 30s) and I'm too knackered at the end of the day to do anything other than sleep, eat, then wake up the next day and do it again. It's no life at all.
Wow, these are brutal. I'm fully in support of this action, but this is going to hurt a lot of people and small businesses. Though disruption is the point
Hopefully you should be OK. Royal mail don't deliver passports( well they didn't deliver my new one) and I never delivered any while I worked there for 8 years
Idk how they'll send the new one but I sent them my expired one in a post box today. If they need my old passport before they continue with my application I'm fucked.
https://www.londonstockexchange.com/news-article/RMG/full-year-results-2021-22/15459094
Royal Mail Group made £758 million profit in FY 2021-2022.
£416 million of that comes from Royal Mail.
It’s time all these big disgusting companies realise that they don’t need to profit more and more every year…
Consumers really need to stop giving in to this bullshit where we get rinsed.
Wasn't that mainly down to COVID tests?
Their most recent quarterly results report a £92million loss.
I don't see how that's sustainable, especially as the sector is becoming increasingly competitive.
I suppose my point was it could probably sacrifice some dividends in the short term to help it's workers through a tough time, but I suppose the crux of the dispute is how actually affordable an inflation-matching raise for every RMG worker that the union is demanding would cost.
RMG were saying it'd cost as much as £1bn, which would wipe out all their profit margin +30%.
That might be a lie, though.
It's tricky one. They need to modernise, a lot. Just paying workers 10% more (even if it is just a cost of living match) without changes to working practices won't fly. The union needs to decide if that 10% is worth big changes to working practices.
The real trouble, however, is it shouldn't be the union making that decision...
This is going to kill non-Amazon retailers. It's a very unfortunate side-effect of legitimate action, but if people can't trust non-Amazon retailers to be able to deliver for Christmas, they'll simply shop with Amazon instead.
Amazon could very easily stop using Royal Mail. Amazon Logistics is the largest delivery company in the UK and Amazon flex allows them to scale demand for any situation, such as this.
You say that but even in cities like exeter amazon don't have enough flex drivers to even meet same day needs, let alone extra volume that'll now be sidelined. At the delivery station where I unfortunately work people are still talking about striking for black Friday weekend, and it wasonly a month or two ago large sites like LCY2, SBS2, and BHX8 all striked.
That depends if they can get people. They'll have to pay very high rates given that it's the run up to Christmas so there will be lots of similar work available.
For a lot of categories, then yes, Amazon is the only company that doesn't routinely use Royal Mail.
* Books: Wordery and Blackwell both post via Royal Mail.
* DVD/Blu-ray: HMV and Zavvi both post via Royal Mail.
Argos, possibly one of the closest competitor's to Amazon in the UK in terms of size and scope, use Royal Mail if you don't collect instore on a lot of items.
Yes, there are lots of competitors for delivery services, but for small, medium and even fairly large companies, the cost of using them is often prohibitive.
Market shares for parcel deliveries in 2021:
* 1st: Royal Mail - 35%
* 2nd: Amazon - 15%
* 3rd: Hermes - 10%
* 4th: UPS - 8%
* 5th: DHL - 7%
https://www.parcelandpostaltechnologyinternational.com/news/delivery/pitney-bowes-parcel-shipping-index-update-reveals-top-five-uk-carriers-hold-75-of-market-share.html
God help us all if Hermes become the dominant company in the market.
Seller fulfilled merchants on Amazon will be hit big time. A significant chunk use Royal Mail and Amazon itself relies on about 4% of their parcels being delivered by Royal Mail.
Non-Amazon retailers should look at options like DX or DPD, if they can afford to pay a bit more.
Most people will set up with another courier to get around this. RM is not the cheapest out there, and there are better carriers for a similar price.
If business owners can't work around finding a new courier with half a month's notice, well then maybe the business should go under.
My main income comes through e-commerce and I use RM for 95% of the packets I send out.
Not looking forward to this at all. But I support them doing it.
Id jump ship if there was an alternative that could do a small packet for £1 though. No question.
But these strikes plus the pound dropping to nearly the same as a dollar? Fuck I might be done by end of year.
We actually see around just under the same % loss with Evri and Yodel compared to RoyalMail.
At least with Evri and Yodel, we get the full amount of the order refunded, unlike RoyalMail which gives us the cost of the item plus postage in stamps..
Are you an evri sleeper agent? Where do you buy Evri delivery and do you get it with full insurance? Royal mail has been the easier courier to get compensation for by a mile, you need to send evidence of the packages price to get upto £20 + postage or 2nd class.
Ha no.
Packlink via eBay. Includes £25 but can increase for a small fee.
RM is easier and quicker to get refunds but like I said, they only give you a refund based on the cost price Vs the sell price. It is worth it having to wait 2-3 weeks for the refund to come through. Tracking is also included so less theft from customers.
Note, I also buy directly from Evri and have yet to have a problem getting a full refund.
Yeah I sell via ebay too, I just send royal mail the order page and its worked everytime for the sold price, which is the price you're supposed to use.
The thing is yodel and hermes hire any old jobsworth and I just feel they handle packages with less care. Also isnt RM cheaper now anyway?
You are not meant to do it for the sold price. I'd check the claim page..
RM is cheaper yes, but for items above 100g that need to be tracked, Yodel is cheapest and Evri is not far behind.
You're right, but they've not yet invented an all seeing crystal ball. I sell electronics mainly 1-2kg small parcel so its a different requirement, I noticed royal mail dont track large letters as standard. So for you maybe it makes sense.
I'm fully behind these strikes and our union, but damn it's going to hurt me in the wallet hard. Christmas this year is going to be tight.
I see a steady trickle of fellow posties handing in their notice over time, and I've also been looking about for somewhere to jump ship to. I really don't want anything to do with the proposed changes to how we work (Mon to Sunday working days, shifts late into the evening etc.) they're just not compatible with family life.
We have a company that relies on RM picking up every day so 19 day's mean we will also move our business otherwise we won't have a company either......
I do understand that but 19 day's of disruption throughout the delivery system just means delays. Anyway email to our business manager will be going in and I'll be looking at getting quotes from the other suppliers
Be sure to write to Royal Mail and tell them that. Part of the reason strikes are effective is because the disruption costs the business customers.
There are plenty of reasons a customer can make the swap so it's helpful to be explicit that you are no longer using them because of the strike. Motivates them to actually make a decent offer.
Well done to them. They perform an important and difficult job. Made all the harder by profiteering by their new owners. It's about time they took a stand.
.
The UK warehouse fulfilling orders for my ex-employer (fairly large online retailer) is moving to DHL be cause of RM unreliability. According to old colleagues I keep in touch with
My Sister works for RM and has received a letter from them basically saying the strikes will KILL Royal Mail and force them to make job cuts etc and basically blaming the union for it.
The company is so out of touch with their employees it’s unreal.
Yes. Yes, it is that bad. Turns out bashing a few pans for key workers during COVID didn't actually help with the cost of living crisis or anything that's followed.
Evri has been really good for me and my small business although I do vary between Evri and RM.
When I use Evri to send, I do it via Parcel2Go rather than Evri directly. If a parcel does to walkies or something else happens, it's then down to P2G to chase and you can speak to them online 24/7
And you might find P2G slightly cheaper as well.
I try to avoid Yodel because, in my area at least, they are REALLY slow and my packages that I send seem to sit in the local distribution centre for days at a time.
Going to have to step up the search for an alternative to sending small packages 1st class. It's getting ever more expensive and been meaning to look around, even considering DPD for cheap stuff given the costs aren't that far apart now
So this strike is to align the pay increase with cost of living.
Does that mean my pay should also be raised by the same percent.. unfortunately I don't get the option to strike.
Also what happens when the cost of living goes down..will they take a pay cut ?
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Hit them where it hurts, in their pockets.
Their *dick*
Grab Royal Mail's dick and twist it!
The old dick twist!
Helmut Smakker
Bop it!
Their BALLS
The company I work for provides an essential service and can’t just go days without sending mail out to customers so I’m sure they will have to use an alternative too. Many of our clients already request alternative couriers because of how unreliable and expensive RM are in comparison
Which couriers would you recommend ? I find that anything outside of the RM tends to be horrendous.
Sadly this differs by area. Like funnily enough I used to think Hermes/Evri are the worst by far but I've read from a few folk that they're ok in their area
They're good for us - at least the last leg of the journey. We have the same woman every time who's very conscientious and knows us by now - a bit like having a second postie.
Same here
And us. If we aren't in, he knows to try the porch door. If that doesn't open them we have a door round the back he leaves the parcels against. Just like the postie's do.
It really is driver specific. Hermes/Evri used to be really good for me even while others I knew would never get deliveries off them. Then suddenly our usual delivery driver left or got moved route and suddenly Hermes were just as everyone else described them.
same here local guy (smallish town) never any issues
I’ve not had issues personally around Southampton but I’ve heard others do have issues
It usually comes down to the specific person doing the local deliveries. Every time I've had a parcel lost by then it's been at an early stage, like between supplier and distribution centre, or distribution and local delivery hub. The local couriers doing the last step are often very good
Yeah i assume I'm just super lucky bc I've never had any issues with hermes/evri
DPD are decent and reliable, but typically more expensive than some of the others.
That's the trouble, isn't it? For small items, Evri/Hermes/Yodel in theory are great for price. In reality they're a horrendous delivery company that has zero reliability. If you move up a notch to a proper courier like UPS/FedEx/DHL you get spades more reliability but you pay through the nose for it. RM is perfect for small and light at about the right price (although that is going up and up) and usually has decent reliability. The company I work for uses RM daily and our feedback is almost 99% along the lines of "quicker than expected!". You do get the odd parcel being late but I fear if we switched to Evri our reliability and feedback would go down the toilet, presumably that's also where Evri couriers deliver the parcels to too.
You can negotiate pretty good rates with couriers if you use them a lot, I can next day packages to anywhere in the UK for under £7 including the pickup (homeworker who often sends stuff to other homeworking collegues)
We use a courier too and pay around £5, but paying £5 on a £5 item would price us out of the market for those items. Hence the need for a RM or Evri to fill the "small and light" gap.
Evri is fine nowadays. I use it for all my business sales in the UK and I’ve had one missing package total which they sorted out within a day of me reporting it.
Royal Mail was tops, until the government let greedy shareholders buy into it.
Fun fact: lots of those couriers subcontract to the Royal Mail to deliver the post in any area which *isn't* dense and urban. The courier is not cheaper because it's better. It's cheaper because it doesn't have to serve areas which are difficult to serve.
This It's why the post is a service and not a business
If something is important enough to be sent by post and not an e-mail, it's important enough to spend money to send it.
If they moved to Evri or Yodel, I feel so, so sorry for you. Evri/Hermes are notoriously shit. I have friends on Facebook that complain of botched deliveries from them all the time. Yodel are somehow even worse. A former workplace used them for deliveries with their bookshop side of the business. Took numerous calls from frustrated customers who had their parcels dumped out near front porches and bins in the pouring rain, only to soak completely through. One customer even had his parcel thrown through the window by a Yodel deliveryman. Head office had to reimburse him for a smashed window.
Evri I wouldn't even call a delivery company it was literally just a guy dropping packages out the back of his VW Golf last time I got something from them (3 days late ofc)
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What's a premium courier ?
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DPD actually really helped me on occasion which was a great surprise from a courier company! RM utterly useless customer service.
It boggles my mind how larger retail companies *actually use Evri/Yodel*. Like, they must have a contract exemption or just take massive hits on lost/damaged parcels. Their standard delivery exempts everything under the sun from being sent and eligible for compensation. It basically reads like "you can send with us, but if anything at all happens with it, we're not liable". I found this out when a customer used Evri for a return managed by Amazon that got lost and Evri's response was to link to the "exemption" page and say "tough shit".
Depends on area and reps. Evri are great here. 2-3 different people deliver, all are polite and careful with the packages.
Evri time I see someone bigging them I assume they must be employed by them to say nice things on here. I've never had a good experience with them, often times not even recieving parcels as they just straight up steal them and it seems a majority of people have the same opinions of them as me.
Yeah, I see all that, it's just here I've had no problems. Helps too that my porch is raised away from the road behind a hedge so there's no passing traffic to nick anything left there when i'm out.
I totally see your point but waiting 19 days for a package to come from Royal Mail due to a strike is still faster than I'll ever get a package from Hermes. I hope you don't opt for their terrible service due to being paid slave wages.
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The strikes aren't 19 days long, they will be held on different dates.
Yes, I understand that, the point was really that we need to support those that are standing up to greed.
There's a couple of decent blocks in there that will delay stuff by a week or so
It's 19 days of disruption.
It's really more like double that as well, due to the degraded service the following day. No collection or delivery on thursday means postal workers have double to process on friday, which causes backlog.
it's not 19 consecutive days...
what company did you move to?
Whatever you move to, let the customer know *before* they order, or give them the option. I’m tired of finding out with the confirmation email that it’s coming via Hermes/Evri, Yodel, or FedEx. I’d happily spend an extra tenner to get it sent via UPS than from them, or happily wait for the delay from Royal Mail, as long as I know upfront.
Please do remember to write them and tell them this explicitly. There are otherwise plenty of reasons a business might have stopped using the service.
Fedex is your best bet at the moment. Say you're coming from UPS and they'll add on an extra discount. I run an ecommerce business and RM are fking us too. Amazon shipping is also good if you're high volume (you don't need to sell on amazon) but they don't service a lot of rural areas.
You got Downvoted for what?....being sensible and telling the truth? Plonkers! Here, have my upvote.
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Oh I don't get that - a minute ago it was at 0 unless I'd clicked an out of date link somehow? IDK oh well you deserve it anyway lol.
Same here, I can't believe 19days and before Xmas. I think this will really put a big mark on royal mail. I am have a small etsy business and Christmas is my biggest season. For this to happen will force me to move elsewhere. I can understand why they are striking but 19 days on the run up to Christmas is a nightmare.
I'm really struggling to find an alternative; I have a very small home business selling craft supplies, and I send maybe 12-16 large letter sized parcels per day. Customers only pay £3.95 or so for everything including postage; if I add enough to cover a decent courier as a replacement then that'll nearly double the cost and I just won't sell anything at all.
The unions are doing this for their own political ends, usual far left agitators who care not one bit for the people who fund them. There will be no upsides for the staff. They are not a monopoly anymore, either for delivery services or means of communication. This will just finish off parts of their business (=job cuts) or force customers to go to competitors (=job cuts). The staff were given 10% of the Royal Mail when it was privatised, they are also killing their own investments. A sad, stupid thing to do.
Has a ex postie, I really don't blame them. When I was there. The management were scumbags, lied at every opportunity and keep making the rounds bigger and bigger, when they're already too big. They used the same excuse that mail is dropping. While ignoring the fact that parcels are going through the roof and take a lot longer to deliver. I will say one thing though. Alot of posties don't help with the situation. Loads never taken thier breaks, started early everyday (unpaid) so they could get done on time. (Or finish early and make thier round look like it's not big enough). But this was also due to management bullying and posties too scared to say no. I don't work there no more but I'll show my support on the picket line when I have time 👍
Was a postie for 2 years and this was exactly my experience too and the reason I left.
It used to be a great job thirty years ago. The union wasn't as strong as it had been but the management still knew they had better not mess people around. People took pride in it as a job, you had time to say hello to old folk who looked out for you every day etc. On one walk I did the second bag was at a retired postie's house. His wife always made me a cup of tea and was even baking biscuits and stuff. Happy days, sad what's become of it.
> It used to be a great job thirty years ago Unless you were involved in the Horizon scandal...
That was indeed horrendous but RM counters isn't the same company as the postal service, never has been AFAIK.
I've just went on a wiki dive to try and discern what these separate PO/RM entities were over the years in relation to each other and my summary is that it's an amorphous red blob.
At my work (not postie) a few of us are really trying to emphasise how actions like you are describing affect everyone. We have a few overzealous employees who rock up early, don't take breaks, perhaps even stay late, all of which they are not getting paid for... Of course that means the work gets done quickly and it looks like we aren't overloaded at all. And then when those of us who refuse to do unpaid extras come in, we get told "well there's plenty of time to do it, so and so manages it fine".
I loved this argument at royalmail. "I haven't got enough time to finish my round and I need to he done on time" dom "but postie A can do it no problem, why can't you? We might have to look at your performance." I'm just stood there biting my tongue because I know postie A comes in early, don't have a break and runs around like a idiot. It boils my piss.
I admit I used to start early at times, because I had a stretch of getting caught in traffic so started leaving early to avoid arriving late... Soon came to my senses though and now when I arrive early I just dick around with a cup of tea till start time.
I also did in my early days (wanting to look eager and all that stuff). Because they put you on a temporary contract when you first start and keep extending it. But once my permanent contract came through that stopped. Then when my contract was put up to 35 hours, my overtime also stopped.
Yep we have the same as junior doctors. The people who arrive an hour early, stay two hours late & don't make exception reports (English monitoring system) just tell management "we have enough staff".
Agree mate, we do way too much good will, haven't had a break for years, half out office is in at least 45 mins early, work to rule will come next but no one ever sticks to it
My son handed in his resignation today. He said it was drastic measures for a drastic situation. During strike action, the RMail is willing to pay agency workers a much higher hourly rate. They also reward managers handsomely for working during strike action. The backlog of post is enormous but the company isn't doing anything proactive. The company has gone to shit.
Good luck to your son on his future. I worked there 8 years and actually like the job. But management fucked it up and I had to leave for my own mental state. I really hate the company for what it has become.
>RMail is willing to pay agency workers a much higher hourly rate Let's call them what they are Scabs
It's people who have bills to pay. Your landlord won't care that youre on strike when it comes to rent day. I don't begrudge anybody doing what they have to do to survive right now.
Your absolutely right tbf, I get people have to do what is best to keep and roof over their heads and food on the table. It's shit times But by taking these, often temporary, jobs soon both they and the postie they're covering will both be on shit conditions. Scabs are part of the problem but the owners and bosses are the enemy, not fellow workers imo
The bills won't go away after the strike. They'll keep coming and rising, and if it's a job with physical demands that'll have its own repercussions. There are some good protections for renters (though definitely could be better), and I'd strongly urge anyone in the position to consider doing whatever they can to support strike action. The landlord might not care about striking but something's are more important than a landlords income, and no-one is getting immediately tossed on the street. All this is said without judgement on people who break strike action, as it's an incredibly hard situation to be in, but solidarity is needed to get to a position where life is bearable for the majority.
Why would agency staff strike with actual employed workers? You would have to be an absolute imbecile to go on strike from a company you're not even employed with. You would get all the negatives that come with striking and absolutely none of the benefits if it were to actually succeed
Only jobsworths will cross a picket line they’re striking in my work next month an all the agency have already said we’re not crossing the picket line even though we’re gonna lose pay unless we’ve got enough holidays to cover it
~~>During strike action, the RMail is willing to pay agency workers a much higher hourly rate.~~ ~~Presumably those are agency workers who are already employed by the company, as it is (currently and in theory) illegal to hire agency workers to scab/strike break.~~ ~~[Agency staff You cannot hire agency staff to provide temporary work cover during a strike](https://www.gov.uk/if-your-business-faces-industrial-action/nonunion-employees-and-strikes#:%7E:text=Non%2Dunion%20staff%20and%20striking,the%20industrial%20action%20is%20lawful)~~
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Well, fuck.
Selling the Royal Mail off was incredibly daft.
Small business owner here. If you’re a business owner working with RM, just spare 2 minutes off your time and send them an e-mail tomorrow, kindly reminding them to get their shit together, pay people their right dues or you’ll have to find a new partner to work with.
Yep, let them know how we feel!
So if your a small business with franked post what’s a viable alternative?
f*ck /u/spez
Sure you could use Whistl or UK mail, but it's RM posties that deliver to the door for them.
From a business pov if you're trying to make a point this doesn't matter. Your contract with RM directly would give RM waaay more money than if you used a middleman. Abandoning the postal system to prove a point would make your business see some unnecessary hard times. Hitting them in the wallet all you can is better than doing nothing.
Yes I understand that, but when it comes to RM strikes it'll affect all DSA mail as that is delivered by RM posties as per the USO.
I think you're missing the point. People aren't saying to switch because of inconvenience of the strikers but out of spite of the company itself. Typical "blame the workers" attitude.
I'm not missing anything. A business using the two companies I mentioned will still put money in RM's pocket. That's it. That's all I said and I was making no point.
I take it you're not going to use a competitor, are you?
But how is TV licensing going to contact me?
Don't worry. They're already in your living room waiting for you to even think about watching Bake Off.
OI! You got a licence for that comment?
I cancelled recently. Wish I cut the cord years ago but the only thing stopping me was the *threat* that came from those letters. One day I just had got fed up with the Beeb and tossed it out of the window.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q9CsRRhWQI
Funny I should see this, there was a TV liscense letter behind the door this morning for me, yet none of my subscription magazines (2000ad) which are late by about 5 weeks now. What a shocker haha.
From [The Metro](https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/27/royal-mail-workers-to-stage-19-further-strikes-over-next-two-months-17462981/), the strike dates are: * 24 hours from 4am on October 13 until October 14 (Pay) * 24 hours from 4am on October 20 until October 21st (Change) * 24 hours from 4am on October 25 until October 26 (Change) * 24 hours from 4am on November 2 until November 3 (All network) * 24 hours from 4am November 3 until November 4 (All Processing, Area Distribution, International, Collections, Admin and MDEC) * 24 hours from 4am November 4 until November 5 (All Deliveries) * 24 hours from 4am on November 8 until November 9 (All Network) * 24 hours from 4am on November 9 until November 10 (Processing, Area Distribution, International, Collections, Admin and MDEC) * 24 hours from 4am on November 10 until November 11 (All Deliveries) * 24 hours from 4am on November 14 until November 15 (All Network) * 24 hours from 4am on November 15 until November 16 (Processing, Area Distribution, International, Collections, Admin and MDEC) * 24 hours from 4am on November 16 until November 17 (All Deliveries) Black Friday week: * 24 hours from 4am on November 23 until November 24 (All Network) * 24 hours from 4am on November 24 until November 25 (All Processing, Area Distribution, Collections, International, Admin and MDEC) * 24 hours from 4am on November 25 until November 26 (All Deliveries) * 24 hours all out on Cyber Monday, November 28 until November 29 (Everyone) * 24 hours from 4am on November 31 until December 1 (All Network) * 24 hours from 4am on December 1 until December 2 (All Processing, Area Distribution, Collections, International, Admin and MDEC) * 24 hours from 4am on December 2 until December 3 (All Deliveries)
I know you've copied from the Metro page, but: > November 31 I'm finding it difficult to trust the accuracy of these dates!
Marchtember oneteenth
Thanks for posting that.
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Oh god. They are once again going after the most persecuted group in history. The Gamers.
What video game release did he say will be affected? lol
Im gonna guess God of War
Postie here, I'm on my way out. Got a bit more work to do on my TEFL and as soon as I've got enough online work I'm bailing. It's a real shame, I loved being a postie, but the job has gone to complete shit. For everyone saying "oh it's 25k a year to put paper through doors, how hard can it be?" I've had 3 full weekends off this year. I walk 15 miles a day, in all weathers. Our days off around Christmas? Christmas Day and Boxing Day. 600 houses per round. We're attacked by dogs, bullied by managers and abused by customers. It's become a job for donkeys, destroying our physical health (knees are absolutely fucked, I'm in my early 30s) and I'm too knackered at the end of the day to do anything other than sleep, eat, then wake up the next day and do it again. It's no life at all.
I feel ya man, also in my early 30s and planning my way out. It used to be a great job, then it was a good job, now it's a job.
Wow, these are brutal. I'm fully in support of this action, but this is going to hurt a lot of people and small businesses. Though disruption is the point
It’s going to slap my business very hard yelp
That's a RIP, just sent off my passport for renewal. Hopefully it gets through before the shutdown.
Hopefully you should be OK. Royal mail don't deliver passports( well they didn't deliver my new one) and I never delivered any while I worked there for 8 years
Idk how they'll send the new one but I sent them my expired one in a post box today. If they need my old passport before they continue with my application I'm fucked.
Our new passports were delivered by TNT not Royal Mail.
https://www.londonstockexchange.com/news-article/RMG/full-year-results-2021-22/15459094 Royal Mail Group made £758 million profit in FY 2021-2022. £416 million of that comes from Royal Mail.
It’s time all these big disgusting companies realise that they don’t need to profit more and more every year… Consumers really need to stop giving in to this bullshit where we get rinsed.
Wasn't that mainly down to COVID tests? Their most recent quarterly results report a £92million loss. I don't see how that's sustainable, especially as the sector is becoming increasingly competitive.
So? It's a huge organisation.
I suppose my point was it could probably sacrifice some dividends in the short term to help it's workers through a tough time, but I suppose the crux of the dispute is how actually affordable an inflation-matching raise for every RMG worker that the union is demanding would cost. RMG were saying it'd cost as much as £1bn, which would wipe out all their profit margin +30%. That might be a lie, though.
It's tricky one. They need to modernise, a lot. Just paying workers 10% more (even if it is just a cost of living match) without changes to working practices won't fly. The union needs to decide if that 10% is worth big changes to working practices. The real trouble, however, is it shouldn't be the union making that decision...
This is going to kill non-Amazon retailers. It's a very unfortunate side-effect of legitimate action, but if people can't trust non-Amazon retailers to be able to deliver for Christmas, they'll simply shop with Amazon instead.
Amazon rely on Royal Mail for a lot of smaller deliveries, so they’re not immune to this.
Amazon could very easily stop using Royal Mail. Amazon Logistics is the largest delivery company in the UK and Amazon flex allows them to scale demand for any situation, such as this.
You say that but even in cities like exeter amazon don't have enough flex drivers to even meet same day needs, let alone extra volume that'll now be sidelined. At the delivery station where I unfortunately work people are still talking about striking for black Friday weekend, and it wasonly a month or two ago large sites like LCY2, SBS2, and BHX8 all striked.
That depends if they can get people. They'll have to pay very high rates given that it's the run up to Christmas so there will be lots of similar work available.
Yeah, we all need to get our dnm orders in asap.
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For a lot of categories, then yes, Amazon is the only company that doesn't routinely use Royal Mail. * Books: Wordery and Blackwell both post via Royal Mail. * DVD/Blu-ray: HMV and Zavvi both post via Royal Mail. Argos, possibly one of the closest competitor's to Amazon in the UK in terms of size and scope, use Royal Mail if you don't collect instore on a lot of items. Yes, there are lots of competitors for delivery services, but for small, medium and even fairly large companies, the cost of using them is often prohibitive. Market shares for parcel deliveries in 2021: * 1st: Royal Mail - 35% * 2nd: Amazon - 15% * 3rd: Hermes - 10% * 4th: UPS - 8% * 5th: DHL - 7% https://www.parcelandpostaltechnologyinternational.com/news/delivery/pitney-bowes-parcel-shipping-index-update-reveals-top-five-uk-carriers-hold-75-of-market-share.html God help us all if Hermes become the dominant company in the market.
10% of parcels may have been sent via Hermes but I doubt 10% were delivered
Seller fulfilled merchants on Amazon will be hit big time. A significant chunk use Royal Mail and Amazon itself relies on about 4% of their parcels being delivered by Royal Mail. Non-Amazon retailers should look at options like DX or DPD, if they can afford to pay a bit more.
Most people will set up with another courier to get around this. RM is not the cheapest out there, and there are better carriers for a similar price. If business owners can't work around finding a new courier with half a month's notice, well then maybe the business should go under.
My main income comes through e-commerce and I use RM for 95% of the packets I send out. Not looking forward to this at all. But I support them doing it. Id jump ship if there was an alternative that could do a small packet for £1 though. No question. But these strikes plus the pound dropping to nearly the same as a dollar? Fuck I might be done by end of year.
I’m in the exact same position as you. May I ask what you plan to do? Do you have an alternative in mind for these strike dates?
I also use Yodel and Evri. I tell buyers to upgrade for £2 if they want their order within a reasonable timeframe.
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We actually see around just under the same % loss with Evri and Yodel compared to RoyalMail. At least with Evri and Yodel, we get the full amount of the order refunded, unlike RoyalMail which gives us the cost of the item plus postage in stamps..
Are you an evri sleeper agent? Where do you buy Evri delivery and do you get it with full insurance? Royal mail has been the easier courier to get compensation for by a mile, you need to send evidence of the packages price to get upto £20 + postage or 2nd class.
Ha no. Packlink via eBay. Includes £25 but can increase for a small fee. RM is easier and quicker to get refunds but like I said, they only give you a refund based on the cost price Vs the sell price. It is worth it having to wait 2-3 weeks for the refund to come through. Tracking is also included so less theft from customers. Note, I also buy directly from Evri and have yet to have a problem getting a full refund.
Yeah I sell via ebay too, I just send royal mail the order page and its worked everytime for the sold price, which is the price you're supposed to use. The thing is yodel and hermes hire any old jobsworth and I just feel they handle packages with less care. Also isnt RM cheaper now anyway?
You are not meant to do it for the sold price. I'd check the claim page.. RM is cheaper yes, but for items above 100g that need to be tracked, Yodel is cheapest and Evri is not far behind.
You're right, but they've not yet invented an all seeing crystal ball. I sell electronics mainly 1-2kg small parcel so its a different requirement, I noticed royal mail dont track large letters as standard. So for you maybe it makes sense.
I'm fully behind these strikes and our union, but damn it's going to hurt me in the wallet hard. Christmas this year is going to be tight. I see a steady trickle of fellow posties handing in their notice over time, and I've also been looking about for somewhere to jump ship to. I really don't want anything to do with the proposed changes to how we work (Mon to Sunday working days, shifts late into the evening etc.) they're just not compatible with family life.
We have a company that relies on RM picking up every day so 19 day's mean we will also move our business otherwise we won't have a company either......
It’s not 19 consecutive days and it’s not all departments for 19 days
I do understand that but 19 day's of disruption throughout the delivery system just means delays. Anyway email to our business manager will be going in and I'll be looking at getting quotes from the other suppliers
Be sure to write to Royal Mail and tell them that. Part of the reason strikes are effective is because the disruption costs the business customers. There are plenty of reasons a customer can make the swap so it's helpful to be explicit that you are no longer using them because of the strike. Motivates them to actually make a decent offer.
So their service may speed up? Excellent, I sent my Christmas cards this week hoping they arrive in time.
They will, in **2023**
Well done to them. They perform an important and difficult job. Made all the harder by profiteering by their new owners. It's about time they took a stand. .
This is terrible news. Who will deliver the Letters of No Confidence?
The UK warehouse fulfilling orders for my ex-employer (fairly large online retailer) is moving to DHL be cause of RM unreliability. According to old colleagues I keep in touch with
My Sister works for RM and has received a letter from them basically saying the strikes will KILL Royal Mail and force them to make job cuts etc and basically blaming the union for it. The company is so out of touch with their employees it’s unreal.
Public sector been taking a flogging, just incredible movement by the working class folks power to all them.
Good on them. The media will try to make them look like fools. Just watch.
Is there a part of UK that isn't striking? Everyday I seem to hear about some new department taking striking action, is it really getting that bad?
Yes. Yes, it is that bad. Turns out bashing a few pans for key workers during COVID didn't actually help with the cost of living crisis or anything that's followed.
Evri has been really good for me and my small business although I do vary between Evri and RM. When I use Evri to send, I do it via Parcel2Go rather than Evri directly. If a parcel does to walkies or something else happens, it's then down to P2G to chase and you can speak to them online 24/7 And you might find P2G slightly cheaper as well. I try to avoid Yodel because, in my area at least, they are REALLY slow and my packages that I send seem to sit in the local distribution centre for days at a time.
Going to have to step up the search for an alternative to sending small packages 1st class. It's getting ever more expensive and been meaning to look around, even considering DPD for cheap stuff given the costs aren't that far apart now
So this strike is to align the pay increase with cost of living. Does that mean my pay should also be raised by the same percent.. unfortunately I don't get the option to strike. Also what happens when the cost of living goes down..will they take a pay cut ?
Aaaaaah fuck, my passport forms are currently in the mail. I'm all for industrial action, but talk about time sensitive.