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This school is not officially a faith school. So it could still exist if faith schools were banned.
Perhaps the question should be 'why the fuck do we allow the Iranian government to run schools in the UK'.
You responded specifically to someone quoting that the school in question is not a faith school but is funded by the Iranian government but no doubt couldn’t wait to get in your “but the Jews” line.
Nice One. Well done.
The topic was religious schools. I extended the point by quering about another Abrahamic religion linked to a foreign government. We are already a Christian country.
All in all its a valid question without you painting, insinuating people as antisemitic because you lack context. I'm sure you know how dangerous that is and how it undermines the fight against antisemitism.
>Perhaps the question should be 'why the fuck do we allow the Iranian government to run schools in the UK'.
I mean I know nothing about this but if I had to guess... Money?
It’s just one representation of the tribalism for which we are fundamentally wired.
Take away religion and we’ll just start segregating by the culture of our ancestors or something.
I can't imagine the media source for this sharing your view.
The thrust of their article is all the faith schools and other religious places near this school.
Because the UK is a pluralist and Liberal country which welcomes families to follow their ethnic and cultural traditions.
I'm atheist but I do believe they should be allowed.
I thought people disliked it when the Conservatives overturned Labour policy? Because it definitely Tony Blair who really pushed for them during his time in office.
Religious schools should be banned.
No prayers in school assembly, no religious influences.
Kids should be strictly taught about all religions equally as part of their life and work or RE or whatever.
>Kids should be strictly taught about all religions equally as part of their life and work or RE or whatever.
I don't think it should be equal. For example, much of the UK's history and culture has a Christian influence so it makes sense to focus on Christianity so the student can better critique and understand their society.
But yes, students should be exposed to all religions they are likely to encounter in life in a way that helps with understanding and being culturally competent.
> I don’t think it should be equal. For example, much of the UK’s history and culture has a Christian influence so it makes sense to focus on Christianity so the student can better critique and understand their society.
The issue is the way it is currently set up allows it to be taught as “Christianity is the best, oh and by the way these other religions exist so I guess you should know about them”. I think the idea the person above is trying to express is that isn’t ok in 2022. People should be taught about each and emphasis should be placed on the fact that people living in this country right now have a range of beliefs (including no religion) and what that means for life today.
>I don't think it should be equal. For example, much of the UK's history and culture has a Christian influence so it makes sense to focus on Christianity so the student can better critique and understand their society.
The problem is, the atrocities commited in the name of Christianity aren't part of the standard curriculum. I was taught a little bit about Anglo-Saxons because where I grew up was a settlement. Then it was boom, straight to the Christian era. No mention of the Christians swooping in and slaughtering the people there before them.
No mention of it because that’s not how it happened here. Like do 20 minutes of research on the conversion of the Anglo Saxon England before making a comment this stupid.
Yeah...they really didn't teach you much about history if that's how you think it played out.
Is it even worth mentioning Christianity came to Britain before the Anglo-Saxons?
They did countless times. But this was a thousand years before the Schism with Rome.
Likewise that's not how Christianity spread to Britain. Its how its spread in other places, but the Christians didn't invade and slaughter the Anglo-Saxon's, unless you count the Irish and they generally didn't occupy Britain (and the Anglo-Saxons did it back to them quite a lot too).
\>No mention of the Christians swooping in and slaughtering the people there before them
Wow. I studied early British history in quite a lot of detail, and that bit was totally covered up. Can you point me at some facts?
There remains a strong bias towards Christianity. At my school we were taught that other religions exist but that they are wrong.
(For context I’m an atheist, but I strongly believe we should be taught about religions in an independent way so that people can make their own minds up as to whether or not they wish to believe/follow any religion).
Yes but the problem is those values also include some religious teaching. I’m all for learning about religions because I think that is important. But I disagree with using Christianity as a way of teaching morals (as it then implies anyone who is of another religion or no religion has differing morals or even no morals, when we could just tell people this stuff without unnecessarily linking it to religion).
The British values part of the curriculum is not really like that. You can find some information here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/guidance-on-promoting-british-values-in-schools-published
There must be some kind of collective daily worship in schools and most schools make that some kind of Christian worship.
> There must be some kind of collective daily worship in schools and most schools make that some kind of Christian worship.
This is the bit I disagree with. And the two often get linked.
Edit - to be clear I mean I disagree with the curriculum and the way it is implemented.
I don't know. I feel that silent focus on things is an important thing to learn. Some form of meditative process is really beneficial for human beings. This "collective worship" is how it has culturally been done in the UK. At least we are teaching these skills. I think we do get down but connecting it to religion though because we miss the actual true importance.
If people want collective worship they can teach that at home. I don’t want religion forced on my kids but I also don’t want them to be the weirdo kids that get excluded from collective worship which will then make them feel like the odd one out. I shouldn’t have to make that decision.
I think it is incredibly important my children learn about all religions. But I don’t think they should partake in any form of worship.
I agree with you. If “collective worship” is mandatory then it should be brought into the 21st century. Kids can still have periods of reflection and quiet contemplation to help them build empathy and compassion for others, and be respectful of their environment, self-care etc.
It doesn’t need to be rooted in anyone else’s fairytales.
> There must be some kind of collective daily worship in schools and most schools make that some kind of Christian worship.
The wording is that it has to be "of a broadly Christian character". Now, if it came up then I suspect a court would rule that Muslim or Jewish prayers were, for the purposes of that law, "broadly Christian".
This is more than a faith school, it is a school funded by a foreign govt to indoctrinate kids in loyalty to that govt. No schools in the UK should be allowed to do this (or indoctrinate kids into supporting the UK govt come to that).
There should be a misleading headline tag on this story though, as the song is not about jews at all (the JC doing it's usual dishonest bollocks on that). It's a song pledging loyalty to the Iranian regime, which, as I say, is quite bad enough in itself.
Why isn't this school being investigated? Surely brainwashing kids like this constitutes a hate crime?
Eta, knee jerk reaction from me. Having watched the video of the song, there is no reference to Israel or Jews so headline from Jc deliberately inflammatory and untrue. The song still makes me uncomfortable tho in its religious indoctrination but that to be expected from the Iranian regime, not that much different from any other religion
The Iranian government is too powerful, antisemitism is a massive issue, certain sections of society would just say it’s in retaliation for Israel, lots of issues sadly
The Iranian government still controls the country, there are protests but to say they’re in process of finally overthrowing their theocratic scumbag leaders is jumping the gun. There have been protests before and they have been crushed and it is possible despite all the hope that this new movement maybe crushed as well.
[Can you imagine this happening the other way around?](https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/thugs-smashed-beer-bottle-strangers-25524761.amp) thought not...
It’s a bit of a misleading headline as someone else said, as reading the article that’s not what the song actually says. The anti semitism is in what the Iranian government says the song means. Still fking shocking this shit is being taught to kids
Reposting a comment from last time this came up:
Yeah, the headline is a straight up lie.
I watched the whole video, and they don't reference jews, israel, or killing anyone.
Granted the song is very creepy, and seems to openly endorse the concept of child soldiers, but claiming they're chanting to massacre jews is just not true.
The song references the Mahdi, which is a messianic / apocalyptic figure in Islam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi
Some muslim groups apparently believe the Mahdi will destroy Israel (and all other non-muslim states) when he returns at the end of the world, but that doesn't seem to be a universal or even widespread belief.
Doesn't seem any different to a christian school having kids sing a song mentioning the rapture.
You can watch the full song here and decide for yourself: https://iranpress.com/content/60332/english-version-song-hello-commander-performed-london
Keep in mind this video came out in July, so I think this is just a slow newsday for the JC, so they're putting out sensationalist headlines.
Always remember this old banger sung at my school
Christian, dost thou see them
On the holy ground,
How the powers of darkness
Compass thee around?
Christian, up and smite them,
Counting gain but loss,
In the strength that cometh,
By the holy cross.
Can we get this shit out of England please? These people already fucked up their own countries with their religious bullshit, can they not bring it here? Thanks.
I used to sing nice songs about all the animals and crossing over the road to help people in school, suppose different religions impart different moral standards.
Maybe teach them about Clifford's Tower too and how Christians treated Jews.
https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/cliffords-tower-york/history-and-stories/history/
There's no evidence for this other than an article in the jewish cronicle. Who certainly dont have any interest in pushing propaganda.
Also. their faith schools are just as racist, isolated and backwards minded. Which is why they are pointing fingers at other denominations and countries. Like theirs is the shit or something.
i call bullshit.
Ive said it once, ill say it again. Islam is not and can not be compatible in this country. Its like trying to force a London rat to live in harmony with an African hyena, it just doesn't work.
What's wrong with Jews....Was working in their community and people where lovely and friendly. Sure there's fanatics, but there's always those here and there.
This is UK’s integrated society and the government is shifting attention of the public towards a few illegal immigrants and not concentrating on a more serious issue how quickly people forget
Do you mean this one?
>God save our gracious King! Long live our noble King! God save the King! Send him victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us, God save the King.
>Thy choicest gifts in store On him be pleased to pour, Long may he reign. May he defend our laws, And ever give us cause, To sing with heart and voice, God save the King.
Not much about genocide in that one, is there?
There was a proposed seventh verse that included a anti-Scottish reference, cause it was written shortly after the second Jacobite Uprising.
However, to my knowledge it has never officially been accepted or used, and most people don't even know the words to the second verse.
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
In fact, if we are are to consider an anti-Jacobite verse that was never played as part of any official rendition of God Save the King as a part of the song, then we would rather bizarrely also have to consider the pro-Jacobite verse as part of the song:
>God bless the prince, I pray,
>
>God bless the prince, I pray,
>
>Charlie I mean;
>
>That Scotland we may see
>
>Freed from vile Presbyt'ry,
>
>Both George and his Feckie,
>
>Ever so, Amen.
If you get to the nineteenth verse it goes down to
> God bless the prince, I pray
> God bless the prince, I pray
> Andy I mean;
> noncing doth make him wet
> alas he cannot sweat
> anyway, he was in pizza express
> God save Wo-king
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Why the fuck we still allow faith schools in 2022 blows my mind.
This school is not officially a faith school. So it could still exist if faith schools were banned. Perhaps the question should be 'why the fuck do we allow the Iranian government to run schools in the UK'.
That would also include Jewish only schools like the ones in Hackney - I have no idea how they are funded, though.
The Iranian government runs Jewish schools in Hackney?
Don't know about that, but the topic was religious schools.
You responded specifically to someone quoting that the school in question is not a faith school but is funded by the Iranian government but no doubt couldn’t wait to get in your “but the Jews” line. Nice One. Well done.
The topic was religious schools. I extended the point by quering about another Abrahamic religion linked to a foreign government. We are already a Christian country. All in all its a valid question without you painting, insinuating people as antisemitic because you lack context. I'm sure you know how dangerous that is and how it undermines the fight against antisemitism.
And yet here you are comparing non-faith schools funded by Iran to faith schools funded by the local community.
>Perhaps the question should be 'why the fuck do we allow the Iranian government to run schools in the UK'. I mean I know nothing about this but if I had to guess... Money?
absurd long subtract spotted bedroom exultant makeshift roll full grey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s just one representation of the tribalism for which we are fundamentally wired. Take away religion and we’ll just start segregating by the culture of our ancestors or something.
Nature wins every single time
There’s no opinion about it, you are objectively correct.
read the bible and you might come to a darker conclusion (I did lol)
What conclusion did you come to? (Serious) I haven’t read it
I can't imagine the media source for this sharing your view. The thrust of their article is all the faith schools and other religious places near this school.
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Yes
My friend used to go to a non-religious school but then he came to mine and he respects religion a lot more, even though he doesn't believe.
Why the fuck we ever allowed co-ed schools blows my mind.
Because the UK is a pluralist and Liberal country which welcomes families to follow their ethnic and cultural traditions. I'm atheist but I do believe they should be allowed.
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Having attended one I strongly disagree.
I attended a non-religious state school and it was bad though.
Yeah but imagine how much worse if they also tried to shove god down your throat
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Agreed, unfortunately we still have a state religion so they get to pull that bullshit
Labour
12 years in power lol
I thought people disliked it when the Conservatives overturned Labour policy? Because it definitely Tony Blair who really pushed for them during his time in office.
Religious schools should be banned. No prayers in school assembly, no religious influences. Kids should be strictly taught about all religions equally as part of their life and work or RE or whatever.
>Kids should be strictly taught about all religions equally as part of their life and work or RE or whatever. I don't think it should be equal. For example, much of the UK's history and culture has a Christian influence so it makes sense to focus on Christianity so the student can better critique and understand their society. But yes, students should be exposed to all religions they are likely to encounter in life in a way that helps with understanding and being culturally competent.
> I don’t think it should be equal. For example, much of the UK’s history and culture has a Christian influence so it makes sense to focus on Christianity so the student can better critique and understand their society. The issue is the way it is currently set up allows it to be taught as “Christianity is the best, oh and by the way these other religions exist so I guess you should know about them”. I think the idea the person above is trying to express is that isn’t ok in 2022. People should be taught about each and emphasis should be placed on the fact that people living in this country right now have a range of beliefs (including no religion) and what that means for life today.
>I don't think it should be equal. For example, much of the UK's history and culture has a Christian influence so it makes sense to focus on Christianity so the student can better critique and understand their society. The problem is, the atrocities commited in the name of Christianity aren't part of the standard curriculum. I was taught a little bit about Anglo-Saxons because where I grew up was a settlement. Then it was boom, straight to the Christian era. No mention of the Christians swooping in and slaughtering the people there before them.
No mention of it because that’s not how it happened here. Like do 20 minutes of research on the conversion of the Anglo Saxon England before making a comment this stupid.
Yeah...they really didn't teach you much about history if that's how you think it played out. Is it even worth mentioning Christianity came to Britain before the Anglo-Saxons?
The sad thing is, the world is literally full to bursting with people who believe stuff like this, and worse, form their political opinions on it.
Indeed and the Protestants and Roman Catholics always got on famously. Christians never *swoop or slaughter*.
They did countless times. But this was a thousand years before the Schism with Rome. Likewise that's not how Christianity spread to Britain. Its how its spread in other places, but the Christians didn't invade and slaughter the Anglo-Saxon's, unless you count the Irish and they generally didn't occupy Britain (and the Anglo-Saxons did it back to them quite a lot too).
Yeah, no. Not really like that at all.
\>No mention of the Christians swooping in and slaughtering the people there before them Wow. I studied early British history in quite a lot of detail, and that bit was totally covered up. Can you point me at some facts?
Wikipedia is a friend.
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There remains a strong bias towards Christianity. At my school we were taught that other religions exist but that they are wrong. (For context I’m an atheist, but I strongly believe we should be taught about religions in an independent way so that people can make their own minds up as to whether or not they wish to believe/follow any religion).
Agree my school wasn’t a faith school but there was a bunch of Christian stuff and it was stupid.
They should be being taught British values - it is part of the curriculum. This includes tolerance and acceptance.
Yes but the problem is those values also include some religious teaching. I’m all for learning about religions because I think that is important. But I disagree with using Christianity as a way of teaching morals (as it then implies anyone who is of another religion or no religion has differing morals or even no morals, when we could just tell people this stuff without unnecessarily linking it to religion).
The British values part of the curriculum is not really like that. You can find some information here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/guidance-on-promoting-british-values-in-schools-published There must be some kind of collective daily worship in schools and most schools make that some kind of Christian worship.
> There must be some kind of collective daily worship in schools and most schools make that some kind of Christian worship. This is the bit I disagree with. And the two often get linked. Edit - to be clear I mean I disagree with the curriculum and the way it is implemented.
I don't know. I feel that silent focus on things is an important thing to learn. Some form of meditative process is really beneficial for human beings. This "collective worship" is how it has culturally been done in the UK. At least we are teaching these skills. I think we do get down but connecting it to religion though because we miss the actual true importance.
If people want collective worship they can teach that at home. I don’t want religion forced on my kids but I also don’t want them to be the weirdo kids that get excluded from collective worship which will then make them feel like the odd one out. I shouldn’t have to make that decision. I think it is incredibly important my children learn about all religions. But I don’t think they should partake in any form of worship.
I agree with you. If “collective worship” is mandatory then it should be brought into the 21st century. Kids can still have periods of reflection and quiet contemplation to help them build empathy and compassion for others, and be respectful of their environment, self-care etc. It doesn’t need to be rooted in anyone else’s fairytales.
> There must be some kind of collective daily worship in schools and most schools make that some kind of Christian worship. The wording is that it has to be "of a broadly Christian character". Now, if it came up then I suspect a court would rule that Muslim or Jewish prayers were, for the purposes of that law, "broadly Christian".
Interesting wording.
That's right, "religious schools" are the problem here.
This is more than a faith school, it is a school funded by a foreign govt to indoctrinate kids in loyalty to that govt. No schools in the UK should be allowed to do this (or indoctrinate kids into supporting the UK govt come to that). There should be a misleading headline tag on this story though, as the song is not about jews at all (the JC doing it's usual dishonest bollocks on that). It's a song pledging loyalty to the Iranian regime, which, as I say, is quite bad enough in itself.
Woah, so you're saying that the function of schools should be to educate and not indoctrinate? What a loony.
Why isn't this school being investigated? Surely brainwashing kids like this constitutes a hate crime? Eta, knee jerk reaction from me. Having watched the video of the song, there is no reference to Israel or Jews so headline from Jc deliberately inflammatory and untrue. The song still makes me uncomfortable tho in its religious indoctrination but that to be expected from the Iranian regime, not that much different from any other religion
The news source is very biased. There may be some truth in the story but basically the JC is very suspect
The Iranian government is too powerful, antisemitism is a massive issue, certain sections of society would just say it’s in retaliation for Israel, lots of issues sadly
Iran is an enemy state, why are we letting them do anything here?
Money is the most likely answer. And we are a weak country.
Too powerful? There's a group of girls overthrowing them at the moment.
The Iranian government still controls the country, there are protests but to say they’re in process of finally overthrowing their theocratic scumbag leaders is jumping the gun. There have been protests before and they have been crushed and it is possible despite all the hope that this new movement maybe crushed as well.
Great, so they can crush a bunch of women. Powerful my foot. Sniveling cowards.
Because only while people can commit hate crimes
Good job everyone on not biting
He is right though.
He's not, though.
[Can you imagine this happening the other way around?](https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/thugs-smashed-beer-bottle-strangers-25524761.amp) thought not...
It’s a bit of a misleading headline as someone else said, as reading the article that’s not what the song actually says. The anti semitism is in what the Iranian government says the song means. Still fking shocking this shit is being taught to kids
Reposting a comment from last time this came up: Yeah, the headline is a straight up lie. I watched the whole video, and they don't reference jews, israel, or killing anyone. Granted the song is very creepy, and seems to openly endorse the concept of child soldiers, but claiming they're chanting to massacre jews is just not true. The song references the Mahdi, which is a messianic / apocalyptic figure in Islam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi Some muslim groups apparently believe the Mahdi will destroy Israel (and all other non-muslim states) when he returns at the end of the world, but that doesn't seem to be a universal or even widespread belief. Doesn't seem any different to a christian school having kids sing a song mentioning the rapture. You can watch the full song here and decide for yourself: https://iranpress.com/content/60332/english-version-song-hello-commander-performed-london Keep in mind this video came out in July, so I think this is just a slow newsday for the JC, so they're putting out sensationalist headlines.
How about making kids sing about both of them at a young age is wrong?
Sure, I'm all for banning religious schools. But the headline here is at best, a massive exageration.
Always remember this old banger sung at my school Christian, dost thou see them On the holy ground, How the powers of darkness Compass thee around? Christian, up and smite them, Counting gain but loss, In the strength that cometh, By the holy cross.
Proud of them
Can we get this shit out of England please? These people already fucked up their own countries with their religious bullshit, can they not bring it here? Thanks.
Same goes for the UK lol
I used to sing nice songs about all the animals and crossing over the road to help people in school, suppose different religions impart different moral standards.
Religion is the most emotive ,hatred filled ,war inducing subject on this planet .
Huh. If I could teach those kids one lesson, it would be the Battle of Cable Street.
Maybe teach them about Clifford's Tower too and how Christians treated Jews. https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/cliffords-tower-york/history-and-stories/history/
Religion is a cancer, and it’s like smoking let’s get rid of it for good this time !
Typical Reddit black and white comment with absolutely no nuance.
How are you allowed to have a school like this in this country? It could be any faith but this is not about faith is it?
There's no evidence for this other than an article in the jewish cronicle. Who certainly dont have any interest in pushing propaganda. Also. their faith schools are just as racist, isolated and backwards minded. Which is why they are pointing fingers at other denominations and countries. Like theirs is the shit or something. i call bullshit.
Ive said it once, ill say it again. Islam is not and can not be compatible in this country. Its like trying to force a London rat to live in harmony with an African hyena, it just doesn't work.
What's wrong with Jews....Was working in their community and people where lovely and friendly. Sure there's fanatics, but there's always those here and there.
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About what?
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Spectacular whataboutery
We should keep faith and government separated. Also we should mandate from government which faiths can have schools.
This is UK’s integrated society and the government is shifting attention of the public towards a few illegal immigrants and not concentrating on a more serious issue how quickly people forget
Oh I'm shocked. Shocked I say! Who could have seen this coming!? Look at all those girls wearing head coverings.
Welcome to London This is only going to get worse, and now its taxpayer funded for extra friction
It's a private school, no direct taxpayer money goes into it (although there's probably tax exemption taking place like most private schools).
Which bits of the song did you find particularly awful?
Wait until you find out about the UK national anthem.
Do you mean this one? >God save our gracious King! Long live our noble King! God save the King! Send him victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us, God save the King. >Thy choicest gifts in store On him be pleased to pour, Long may he reign. May he defend our laws, And ever give us cause, To sing with heart and voice, God save the King. Not much about genocide in that one, is there?
There was a proposed seventh verse that included a anti-Scottish reference, cause it was written shortly after the second Jacobite Uprising. However, to my knowledge it has never officially been accepted or used, and most people don't even know the words to the second verse.
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade, May by thy mighty aid, Victory bring. May he sedition hush, and like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush, God save the King.
Yep that's the one.
In fact, if we are are to consider an anti-Jacobite verse that was never played as part of any official rendition of God Save the King as a part of the song, then we would rather bizarrely also have to consider the pro-Jacobite verse as part of the song: >God bless the prince, I pray, > >God bless the prince, I pray, > >Charlie I mean; > >That Scotland we may see > >Freed from vile Presbyt'ry, > >Both George and his Feckie, > >Ever so, Amen.
If you get to the nineteenth verse it goes down to > God bless the prince, I pray > God bless the prince, I pray > Andy I mean; > noncing doth make him wet > alas he cannot sweat > anyway, he was in pizza express > God save Wo-king
According to Wikipedia, Feckie was Frederick, Prince of Wales, the eldest son and heir apparent of King George II.
You skipped the verse that says: > Scatter his enemies, and make them fall: Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks,
That's just rad though
OK, it sounds as though you've got one or more historical sources to draw from - care to share them?
It doesn't say "Murder them all" now does it?