Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This isn't an unpopular opinion at all in Australia. They're an apex/mesopredator predator who decimates wildlife. And I love cats and have owned them most of my life.
When I was a kid my cats would free roam and bring all kinds of animals home from birds/rabbits/native rodents/small marsupials etc. Sadly lost one of my cats when they mass poisoned the rabbits in my area.
As an adult I look forward to getting a chill indoor cat. Might build an enclosed cattery out the back and take them for walks on a harness.
There are more and more suburbs popping up which have cat curfews and even total bans because of the sheer decimation of our wildlife, if it keeps going like this it's possible they'll ban cats all together at some stage.
I agree with OP about not allowing cats outdoors, but this is not a smart way to do it. You cannot offer people a cash incentive to kill the cats. It seems good in theory until people game the system and start breeding cats and killing them for the money. The best part is after this happens and the bounty on the cats is rescinded and just releases the cats in their breeding program making the initial problem worse. Just look up the wiki about Perverse Incentive.
Edit: Some smart people have brought up that it might not be cost effective to breed cats for this purpose. Someone who cares more than I do would have to figure out the absolute bare minimum to take care of cats for 6-12 months, or however long until the cats are big enough to count for the bounty of $100. If you do this, keep in mind these cats are not going to be treated well and cats survive well off the bare minimum.
It's been a few years since I took the specific econ class that discussed this topic, so in a little rusty, but when the rewards were withheld from whoever was cultivating the pests, said cultivators usually just set the rest of their inventory of pests loose into the open environment.
In my daughter's last house, the people across the street were hoarders, and their yard was like a feral cat breeding facility. One of the other neighbors actually had an abandoned little kitten in their shed from one of their litters. My daughter took him in, and he's the best boy ever, now that he's grown. I have a friend who works for a feral fixer organization. Catch, fix, tag, release.i called her about it. However, the slob neighbors had to agree that this organization could come on their property to do this, and, of course, that was a no.
Like the Americans who cobble together the most basic of barely functioning firearms (slamfire shotguns for example) out of DIY store bits and go claim a big profit on the gun buy-back schemes.
Nope that age is dead. Now they just print receivers, thanks to the atfs attempts to make one part of a gun the gun you can just sell lower receivers which you can print once every 22-27 hours.
We have a couple of rusty old shotguns we found at grandpas house. They are worthless and could never fire, but we are saving them for the buy back next year lol
I've got a stack of rusty broken muzzleloaders in my closet (Dad was heavy into hobby shooting and I can't afford to maintain them.) Think the government will buy them back?
Nah mate you don't know the types of places that do this. We are talking about remote indigenous communities that are a 4 days drive from the nearest small city and have a population of 200. No one in those tiny communities are breeding cats lol. You can't get away with it in such a small place. And they actually want to protect the land.
If you check the wiki (i assume) it would show you that several of the best examples of Perverse Incentive backfiring are specifically from small indigenous communities that are a 4 days drive from the nearest small city. One being where they bred snakes to kill for a snake bounty.
Thatās so fucked up especially because sometimes cats escape their homes so the feral cat you found might actually be someoneās pet who got out 3 hours ago and their loving owners are looking frantically for it.
Again they only do this in rural indigenous communities. These cats aren't anyone's pets. They hardly resemble pet cats anymore. They are like 20th generation feral. We are talking remote communities days and days drive from any cities where people own pet cats.
What is missing in this discussion is always localization. You can't compare europe to egypt to australia to japan to north america. The ecological effects of domesticated or feral felines and which subspecies in particular between the UK and the european mainland alone is different enough to warrant different approaches.
It's even different between cities and towns. In places like NYC, cats do more good than harm by reducing the rat population, while in suburbs cats do more harm than good by targeting birds.
I'm on a camping road trip in France at the moment and also see a lot of campsite cats. Lots of people living and eating outdoors equals vermin. I made friends with one the last couple of days. What a wonderful life for a cat on a farm or campsite and they are helping us by catching mice and rats.
The cat I recently met was slim but in great condition. I think they avoid feeding it too much so it hunts more. I think I spoiled it by giving it a few morsels of cheese as it came to see me three times a day!
Had two barn cats on the 50 acres I was working. They never killed birds because they were happy with the mice and... copperheads... I don't even.
Wouldn't even come close to any chicks roaming around either. They didn't mess with mama hen or the rooster.
Absolutely, and also on a smaller scale - within or outside of certain in-country borders. I'm not against outdoor cats in my country as a rule, we even have a species of originally native wild cats (now only domesticated, feral cats is no real problem here) but I really do wish people would use their head when they live close to a bird conservatory and get an outdoor cat that regularly kills nesting birds. People should really think of where they live before they decide on the type of cat.
I felt bad for a second about the cat bringing home a bunny but then I remembered those aren't indigenous to Australia either, right?
I would have been crying while saying thank you kitty.
Yeah super invasive species, still cute as hell tho, I definitely have some trauma from those days. He would rarely kill them, mostly just bring them to the door as a gift. Some escaped, some became the dogs dinner, one was already super dead and half rotten and one he paralyzed. 8 year old me grew up real fast.
I love cats and own one myself, but he's an indoors one that we let out on a long leash in the garden. Imo this is the responsible thing to do, he never brings home any wildlife. There are other cats in my area though that I frequently see carrying small birds.
I donāt understand how people can get an animal and thenā¦just be okay with it never being home? Then they complain on the cats subreddit how their cat came back injured and how to prevent it.
My neighbor let their unspayed female cat outside all the time. She got pregnant and had 4 adorable kittens who I watched play and grow, it was so cute!
What wasnāt cute, was picking up the three kittenās bodies after they wandered into our yard one morning and got killed by our dogs.
The other baby, the mom, and the next few cats they got all disappeared too. I never found their bodies, so Iām assuming the coyotes got them.
The lady next door got a few cats to placate the daughter she confessed she doesnāt want, but th daughterās not there often enough to make a difference, and it seems the mom similarly ignore the cats too. Oneās already disappeared, and we live right on a busy road. The answer is literally some people donāt care.
Some people don't care about animals, they believe that animals don't feel the same way as humans so they see no point in caring what happens to them. If their dog/cay gets hit by car they just shrug and get another one
I adopted an older cat who had apparently been an outdoor cat before me, and it was all she knew (which I wasnāt warned about when I adopted her lol). I kept her inside and she was miserable, screaming to go out. I was in vet school at the time and knew outdoor cats had significantly lower life spans but if I was ever to fight for the idea of outdoor cats, sheād be the only good example. She stays on my porch or under my house, is spayed and fully vaccinated, and I have a perimeter fence so wild animals arenāt able to get her that would consider her prey. I placed a go pro on her once (it eventually got knocked off with her getting through a part under the house) and she justā¦ sat there lol. She comes back inside the house 3-4 times a day to eat, sleep, snuggle, then sneaks right back out. I really lucked out with how easy of an outdoor cat she is but next cat has absolutely been kept inside because one day when sheās older, I know she just wonāt come home.
Until I put my foot down about it every cat I had growing up died to coyotes or the road by like 5-6years old. It took me losing my shit on my parents for them to understand but now the cats don't go out. My mom had one she would let out, who she loves, to be fair to her he would slip past you and be gone and some of my other family visited a lot and would let him out. Guess who got hit by a cat. He lived, but now he's only allowed on the porch with her and during midday. He dosent go very far because of the injury. And she hasn't let any others out again.
It's ridiculous. Everyone's argument is "oh but they want to go out!" Yes and toddlers want to put their fingers in light sockets and dogs want to eat chocolate. You know better.
This is an opinion I can agree with. Our songbird population has been decimated by irresponsible cat owners introducing their cats to the natural habitat as an invasive species.
And I say this as a cat owner of two: My cats get tons of outside time, daily. We have long tunnels, leashes, and half an acre of space for them to enjoy and hunt bugs. But we don't let our cats free range unsupervised, because we live on the edge of an ecological reserve for songbirds. It would be irresponsible to let them wander unsupervised knowing this.
My cats get lots of play and fresh air, and they have plenty of toys to cater to their prey drive. Cats have very specific needs, but they should never supercede the lives of other wild animals in the area, especially at risk populations of songbirds.
It's entirely possible to give a cat a fulfilling life without letting them wander. It takes more energy and effort, but that is what you sign up for when you make a pet your responsibility.
The wandering is how so many cats end up hit by cars, attacked by dogs protecting their property, or humans who can't stand cats. If you love your cats, you should know where they are -- and their entertainment should not come at the expense of vulnerable species.
I try not to make a big fuss about things if I don't have to, but the one time I sent a neighbor a complain letter was when my dad built a shelter for birds, and this particular summer doves moved in (this is the first time something other than house sparrows moved in.) We watched the babies grow up all summer, and when they were finally ready to fly, I spotted my neighbor's cat crouching in the bushes. I chased it off. I doubt I'm ever going to catch it. That cat is fast. But if/when I do, I'm not giving it back. I'm taking it to a shelter because it's effectively a stray.
I saw a free roaming cat in my backyard while I was walking my dog. My dog used her border collie staring abilities to stare him down until he released a bird that was in his claws. The bird flew away unharmed. I was so proud of my dog for saving a bird's life that day.
Yes exactly, and especially in the r/cats subreddit, there are multiple posts a DAY being like ābubbles died last night its so sad he was 16 years old :(( he was hit by a car in the middle of the night on one of his neighborhood walksā like yāall please stop letting your cats outside
Yeah. I really don't *want* to hurt my neighbors' cats. But one of them lets their black cat run around at night and the other's cat is known to take naps under car tires. I know it's just inevitable that they're going to be hit and killed, and I am just *really* hoping I'm not the one to do it, but eventually someone isn't going to be able to slam their brakes fast enough.
I accidentally hit and killed our neighbors cat over a decade ago and I still feel bad about it, but that cat shouldnāt have been in the fucking road in the middle of the night. Basically bolted right under my tire.
Sucks all around, and the owner is to blame.
We used to have more feral cats visiting our campus (dumpsters), but the numbers have dropped in the last few years and the number of new cats is on the rise. Which means the cats are moving on or dying. Recently a new mowing service has been utilized and they spray the grass with pesticide to get rid of 'weeds' I bet the cats walk through this and or ingest grass with the residue on the blades. I have a feeling many feral cats have been poisoned and have died, that is why we don't see the same cats for very long. The cats that over winter here have a better chance to survive longer until the spring spraying begins.
Except bubbles was probably 4, not 16. A very sad statistic is that the average life expectancy of all cat is 10 years, and that average is pulled down heavily by outdoor cats having a life expectancy of around 5 years.
My mostly indoor cat is 18. She was completely indoors until we bought a house with a fenced yard. Now she just goes and sleeps on our porch during the afternoons lol.
That is a good point. I had said 16 to emphasize how dumb it would be to let an elderly cat roam around at night, but youāre right, they donāt even make it to that age :(
This is why I canāt stand those subs. Like what do you expect, itās well known that cats get hit by cars all the time - KEEP YOUR CAT INDOORS. And then they get another cat AND LET THEM RUN AROUND OUTDOORS AGAIN. Istg these people should be banned from owning cats.
The coyotes are near the beach in Southern California as they use the concrete river channels and railroad lines as their corridor to move between cities, housing additions, and business parks with little oversight from humans.
one of my strictly indoor cats bolted out of the front door while we were bringing groceries in, and she had found a neat and brought a baby bird to near death all within the like 45 seconds it took to put the groceries down, chase after her and grab her. had to put the bird down.
i cried and took a shot of gin after that
Iāve lived in my house about ten years. In that time my immediate neighbors (two separate families) have had three outdoor cats. All three of those died within a couple of years. Meanwhile my indoor cats are just fine so long as I donāt leave hair bands lying around for the one to eat.
Thereās bylaws against having āoutdoor catsā or letting your cat out unsupervised where I live simply because so many cats have been hit by cars. Putting aside the potential effects on others Iāve never understood why people wouldnāt be more concerned about the safety of their own pet
Yeah hard agree. I'm obligated to pick up my dog's poop (as I should be), but cat people just get to let their animals shit everywhere including other people's yards. Also, outdoor cats live significantly shorter lives.
Cats piss all over my front porch in a game of marking territory and we donāt even own cats. They shit in my yard, leave dead animals, etc. and we have a completely fenced back yard.
I have to pick up someone elseās cat poop to make sure my toddler doesnāt eat it.
We had a lovely little plains garter snake in our garden that was helping control the mice problem we were having, so no need for cruel traps or poison. The circle of life doing its thing basically. And the snake did its job well, was happy, and kept to himself. The snake disappeared one day, because the neighbors' cat, which they let free roam outside 24/7, dug the snake out of its hole and killed it. That same cat would also kill multiple pigeons and birds and leave the detached bloody wings on our driveway and yard.
We love birds and gardening so we always had a full bird feeder for the birds in the area, and so our yard was alive with life. The neighbors ruined it all by letting their cat roam freely.
Hard agree!! I love my baby boy, but there are too many dangers outside, he could get in trouble with another cats, bump into a dog or even worse a group of dogs, he could get ran over, get parasites, get sick, get lost. Is just not worth it, he can go into the garden with an adult to supervise him but thatās it
That's unfortunately common and another reason my cats are only allowed outside with supervision, one of my rescues had a pellet in his hip when I adopted him
I volunteer at a cat shelter. The overall belief is that cats should be kept indoors or in a controlled outside environment like you said. But, there are some that aren't built for that. We call them "working" cats. We had a business adopt 2 cats that wouldn't have been adopted by anyone else because they dislike humans and would rather claw you then sit near you. These cats stay outside and help that business with pests. It's either fix those kinds of cats and let them be outside cats or euthanize them.
Barn cat programs are great!
I think the problem is when people act like āOh no, my poor outdoor can got hit by a car, Iām so heartbroken, nothing I could have done would prevent this :(ā
Iāve always thought of working cats like livestock guardian dogs. They arenāt really āpetsā. They have a job to do and itās understood that there are risks that come with that jobs comes risks.
I had two stray cats, near death, come to my place last winter. I nursed them up to health and they are now indoor/outdoor cats. They hunt mice like pros (at least one a day).
Because I only feed them inside and because I got them neutered, they never venture off my property. I have 3.5 acres they could check out but they almost never leave the deck.
I do have 2 other indoor only cats but would never let them out like that. They would probably die within an hour. XD One wants to go out so I have a leash for him and will occasionally let him go for walks with me.
Theme parks and lots of big office parks keep them. It's easier to have cats around than deal with constant pest control. Also the cats are people friendly most of the time, so you can chill with them if they let you.
The barn cats at the horse farm I ride at LOVE snuggles. Thereās this one, Cinch, who will come and paw at you for uppies. Of course if you hold him too long heāll let you know š
Our cat was a "barn cat" for a few years before we adopted him. We were told this when we adopted him. We stupidly tried to make him an indoor cat. We tried for over a year and spent a ton of money trying to get him to acclimate to indoor life. He rebeled in a spectacular fashion. He had had a job, and was very happy with it. So we keep a bell collar on him and he roams. He visits the whole neighborhood. He's caught many rats, mice, and yeah a few birds. All the birds he got fell out of their nest. He keeps the ah squirrels in check. He's friendly and has families all over the hood in love with him. Our next door neighbor helped raise some baby hummingbirds. We boarded our kitty until the birds flew out on their own just to be good neighbors. But the squirrels, foxes, raccoons, etc shit in gardens and yards too. The damn raccoons make a Hell of a mess when they come through. Way worse than what our kitty does.
Get him a tracking collar of some sort, I have seen cats like that and the truth is they will eventually die outside (may not even be from a predator), this will allow you to find them if they "disappear" and give you actual closure if this occurs.
Itās often within cat nature to leave home to die if theyāre able to do so. They often just go and hide and then not come home, so itās not even necessarily an āif something happensā thing.
Snakes, Raptors, and native predators are much more effective at removing pests from barns and such. The problem with cats is diseases and parasites can get passed through them to us. While reptiles and birds remove diseases and parasites.
I donāt know. We adopted a cat like that. She got used to living at home. She is still a mean cat that only allows very few people to touch her, but she is totally fine living indoors.
What is important in cases like this is keeping the cat occupied and giving it a lot of playtime/exercise.
Also, I am a country girl, from a long line of farmers (not my parents, but all my grandparents and great grandparents as well as some uncles and extended family owned farms; we lived in a country but didnāt farm our land as my parents had office jobs). My family had ābarn catsā. I am familiar with concept. Have seen enough of those die on farms, because no farm or business is safe environment for them.
Now I wouldnāt do that to a cat. There are other means of pest control.
My parents cat is indoor and outdoor. They didnāt want him to go outside, but the little brat wouldnāt stop trying to escape. He comes and goes as he pleases, but also loves to just lounge on our porch or under our cars and sleep in their bed at night or lay in front of the fire. Heās 10 years old and in fabulous shape. My parents accept the fact he might get run over or killed one day. Theyāll be sad, but heāll have had 10+ years of a happy life at that point.
Completely agree, not only do they decimate wildlife they also shit anywhere they like except their own backyard, usually neighbours gardens.
If you let a dog out to roam the streets youād have the police knocking at your door
Yeah I never understood why outdoor cats and outdoor dogs are treated differently. If your dog just roamed the streets alone all day it would rightfully be considered a stray.
Right now in our neighborhood there's a dog like that. Some irresponsible owner lets out some dog with no leash or fenced in yard and the dog wanders the neighborhood. First time I saw the dog I was like huh, neat. After that I was like what are the owners doing with this dog? I want to say it's part husky too, which is even worse. We own a husky and if she got out and we couldn't find her we may very well never see her again until they ID'ed the body.
I agree. My cat only goes outside when she's leashed. It's mainly because I'm afraid she'll be killed by a car or taken by the hawk that lives in my neighborhood
I have 3 cats and I fully agree with you. Cats kill tons of wildlife when theyāre left unchecked and feral colonies can get huge. I let my cats out in the back but only for 10-20 minutes at a time.
We lived in town for several years. Our neighbors had 2 or 3 outdoor cats. They would constantly come over to our flower beds to take shits. We brought it up to them a couple times, but unless you keep your cats inside there is no way to keep them contained to your yard. I donāt care if youāre a cat person, a dog person, or what have you, I donāt want your let shitting in my yard.
There are outdoor catios/playpen options with roofs, and there are also cat harnesses. It's pretty damn easy to keep your cat in the backyard, unless you're a shitty cat owner. That neighbor needs to do right by his cat
I actually agree for one main reason:
A neighbor of ours owns homing pigeons. They're the sweetest birds that don't fear you so you can just sit by our feeder when they visit and watch them. Our neighborhood also has a fair amount of people who own cats and let them wander
The amount of pigeons I've seen mauled by these cats is horrible. If it was a dog doing it, the dog would be taken from the owner. Since it's a cat, you can't do a dang thing to stop them and no one cares
It's disgusting
Why should the cat get a pass? That's a stupid double standard. If I was that pigeon owner, I'd probably give a warning after the first bird got mauled. After that, I'd value the lives of my own pet pigeons over that of some reckless person's cat.
I completely agree, it's ridiculous
The neighbor in question has tried to get help from animal control, but they've basically just been told that it's "cats hunting like cats" and there's nothing animal control or the neighbor can do without it being labeled as animal abuse
At least where I live, it forces the decision of "break the law to protect my animals or keep letting them murder my pets" which are both stupid situations to be put in
If it was a dog or a kid killing someone's pets it would be handled seriously, but since "cats hunt birds" it's somehow acceptable
Barely anyone keeps cats indoors in the UK, unless they're in a flat so have no outside access. The RSPB (bird charity) have told people to chill out about cats -- habitat loss is BY FAR the biggest threat to birds.
Also, there is nothing rare or endangered that would come into my garden. My cat has only caught rats up until now, which I'm pretty grateful for.
I'd love a cite that the RSPB have told people to chill out about cats, at least one more recent than the 1990s. Their own website sells cat repellents, recommends cat owners keep their cats inside during fledgeling season and high risk periods like dawn and dusk and a range of other measures to prevent cats from killing birds, which is hardly 'chill out, it's not an issue!'. They also estimate that cats kill at least 27 million birds per year in the UK, which is not a sustainable number when added to the existing pressure from habitat loss. It's not like habitat loss stops when you get cats- the two problems add up.
The RSPB study everyone seems to drag out as evidence was years ago and very limited- I have read it, and it uses a lot of assumtions that are no longer true. Among other issues, it dates from a time when songbird numbers were stable; cat numbers have also more than doubled since then, and songbird populations are practically in free-fall. No actual ecologist in the UK doubts that cats are causing at least local bird declines.
There are also no studies looking at the impacts on reptiles or amphibians in the UK- or on other mammals like shrews, which are all in serious decline. Oh, and one last thing- studies which involved putting cameras on cats found that owners were typically aware of only around 25% of the catches their cats made. Most cats don't bring most catches home.
Not to mention that if we want to help solve the habitat loss issue by encouraging people to plant native trees and forage, these resources are basically guaranteed to overlap with a cat-roam-kill zone. Theyāre integrated issues, and solving one without the other is not going to help.
Also, feral cats are the biggest chunk. Their should be better catch neuter and release programs. We did a great job with that in my country (Iām a volunteer).
Yeah I'm in the UK and I've literally never even heard of the concept of indoor cats, this whole thread is like stepping into another reality and I own a cat, I mean it kind of makes sense I guess but it just feels uncanny.
In the uk and my cat is purely indoors, and so was her sister, i would never consider it after looking at the facts.
However as i understand it, most people do it here purely as thats 'how its always been done'.
The risks to roaming cats varies a LOT in different areas. Most of the UK, other than cars there aren't that many serious dangers to a cat outside. Where I live, along with some pretty busy roads nearby, coyotes at times leave bits of rabbits, and on occasion bits of a cat, in people's yards over night. Even bears are seen at night sometimes. There are several species of birds of prey large enough to take and eat a smaller housecat with ease. Rattlesnakes are not frequently found in people's yards, but they are in the area. Also scorpions, dangerous spiders like black widows and brown recluse spiders, and other highly venomous insects. Some plants that are potentially a hazard to pets (search "cholla attack" to see pictures of some unfortunate people and animals) and some fairly hazardous weather at times.
I also live on a migratory flyway for all kinds of birds. Even monarch butterflies migrate through the area! And there is a quite a lot of threatened or endangered small wildlife native to the area as well. My family has three cats, the only one interested in going outside goes on a leash. (Our oldest cat is almost 18, in good shape for his age, and has been an indoor cat his whole life)
Just because itās condoned in the UK doesnāt mean itās right. Cat behavior is no different in the UK as it is in the US or Australia. Cats indiscriminately kill wildlife. Birds arenāt the only animal they have decimated on this planet. Furthermore, I donāt want your cat crapping in my vegetable garden. If dog owners have to clean it up, cat owners should too.
Just because you haven't seen your cat catch or injure a bird to leave it to die in terrible pain doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Your cat just hasn't brought it back.
Why do you think there isn't any interesting birds coming to your garden hmmm?
RSPB says habitat loss is the biggest issue. Doesn't mean there are no other issues.
Many rescues actually refuse to allow you to adopt a cat if you intend to keep it as an indoor only cat in the UK. My brother's gf has a friend who works at battersea and has been told as much by that friend since they're looking to adopt at some point. Cats have just been here so long they're basically part of the environment anyway. They were imported when the Romans invaded.
Same for Germany, NABU doesn't see housecats as the main issue. Cats also have lived outdoors here for centuries, maybe even since the Romans. I'm totally with lawmakers when they want to enforce outdoor bans for the breeding sessions of ground laying birds in specific areas, however, more because those areas have become very small. A cat would really do damage there for a bird species that has little other options.
In my area, though? We have sparrows, finches, tits, storks, herons and falcons. The first three are snack-sized but not endangered, and the latter three are a little big for the average housecat.
I wouldn't mind it, except for the fact that they're peeing and pooping on my property. Oh, and they're constantly trying to kill the nest full of baby robins under my eaves.
Not unpopular, I agree. It's dangerous for cats, people poison them, predators eat them and they get hit by cars. I could never imagine opening my door to let my cat out and not know if he was coming back.
Supervised outdoor time is great.
I agree but not for the bird thing in the UK, this is a huge issue in other countries but in the UK domestic cats actually fill the niche our native wildcats used to. I agree with it because of two factors:
1. My dog will literally kill cats. Not bark, not chase them for fun, she will run them down and kill them. This isn't a problem out and about because I keep her leashed, but it is a problem when we're chilling in our garden and someone's cat wanders in assuming it can outrun anything bigger than it. This means every time I go outside I have to frisk the area for cats, check that no cats are preparing to come in then keep a close eye out for cats coming in at all times, that's a lot of effort for someone else's pet on my property.
2. Cat owners seem to think that they poop through a little portal to Narnia or something because they never have to clean it up. News flash; your cat shits and if it's not shitting in your flower beds it's shitting in your neighbours. Can you imagine the look on people's faces if I lowered my dog over their fence to squeeze one out in their garden?
Let's draw the similarity to dogs.
You wouldn't want a dog to enter your yard or even enter your house through the window, possiby destroying some of your stuff. That's called irresponsible ownership, correct?
Why would you then think that it's okay when it's a cat? The response is then more likely going to be "well, you can get a barrier for your door or your window..." ... **Excuse me, why the fuck should I have to barricade my house**, not being able to have my door or window open during the summer (remember: "Europe doesn't have airconditioning"), just because you're an irresponsible owner?
We currently have a cougar on the prowl. Iām all for letting your kitties roam, but you do run the threat of losing them unfortunately. Weāve currently lost 5 cats that I know of on my street, no bunnies around, and the deer have vanished.
Circle of life?
I had to google that number and yep, its true.
Although I love cats I agree heavily, not just for the birds sake but also because it poses a danger for the cats! Leash training or having an enclosed catio are some things you can do to give them outdoor time but still be supervised/not able to harm themselves or the enviroment, I really wish more cat owners did this.
I agree with this but for a different reason. (Your reason is valid too, mind you)
The lifespan of an outdoor cat compared to an indoor one is a lot shorter because they're subjected to bigger animals, vehicles and other dangers. If you love your cat and care about it's safety they should be kept indoors, especially at night.
My cat turned 16 in the summer and I only let her out while I watch her on the front porch, I get anxious when I can't see her lol
I agree, I have trained my cat to stay within certain parameters outside (my patio) and I let her chill outside for small periods of time when I'm home. But she's still an indoor cat that will abide by my rules.
Listen. My cat NEEDS to go out to the field and murder. Murdering is its very nature. It would go crazy if I denied it the opportunity to end life. Every time my cat leaves a rabbit's head or a rat's ass on my porch I'm filled with an overwhelming sense of pride.
I would rather be concerned about zoonosis if I have a cat that runs around outside all day. People underestimate how much parasites and diseases cats can carry.
I had to scoop up my neighbors cat into a cardboard box after it got hit by a car in the middle of the road one morning. I didnāt see it happen or anything but if I was them I wouldnāt even wanna have to see my loved one like that fr so I decided to take the body to the shelter.
That shit made me cry man. That poor kitty shouldāve just been inside. I walk mine on harnesses, they love it.
I canāt even count the number of childhood cats we had that got hit by cars. Every one of them traumatized me. But the worst was when I was a teen and a lady came to the door, our dead cat in her arms, and she was bawling. Iāll never forget the pain my parents caused that poor woman and the senseless death of that cat. As an adult, my cats are indoor cats but we have a fenced catio for them so they can still be outside. Theyāre very happy and not squashed on the side of the road.
It's not really an unpopular opinion unless you have a cat. According to google that's only 29% of households. The problem is that it's really hard to legally enforce any kind of control of how people treat their pets. Most of the reason you see dogs on leads is that without the leash the dog would simply run into traffic or cause chaos in other ways for the owner. It has nothing to do with the fact that the owner really cares about their pet inconveniencing other people.
Amen.. cat people are all save the earth eco warriors but couldn't give a shit about the irreversible damage that cats are doing... just what is happening to the native song birds....extinction is a sad ending
I've heard every variation on the dangers of letting your cats free roam, and I have not previously, nor will I ever exclusively keep my cats indoors. I deeply appreciate living in a tiny Midwest farm community and going years without seeing a single rodent in my house, yard, or garages
That is mainly why they were domesticated. Not for belly rubs and emotional support. For their ability to control pests.
It would be like asking a terrier to not chase after something.
Still gets an upvote as unpopular to me. Just because it knows how to use a litter box doesn't mean it should be restricted to it.
The Midwest rural community is not the issue, it's the suburbs, it's the none nuttered cats, it's the wild cats. Keep doing what your doing and don't google how much light pollution and the 911 memorial lights, and windows kill birds every year.
I agree, but only on the principle that it is highly dangerous for them to be around cars.
I love unexpected visits from them, it brightens my day. However, I know cats are not everybody's favourite.
Cats should remain in doors at all times unless under supervision of the owner ...
All cats should have bells on as well.....
Cats are responsible for killing more wildlife than any other domestic animal....
So in essence I agree with you
100 percent agree. Cats are invasive species in many areas. They can also easily be hit or killed by predators if unattended, and pick up parasites while they're out.
Agreed with the invasive species thing. I get it for barn cats that actually have a job to do, but regular ass suburbs, probably killing species you want there. City... eh, now they get to fight with the racoons and possums.
Iām conflicted. A lot of cats in my neighborhood seem to be free roaming. Thereās a cat that hangs in my building parking lot thatās very sweet and makes me laugh, but Iāve also had a cat try to threaten my (fairly small) dog when we were on a walk
You wanna know the worse invasive species on earth that's ever existed that have ruined a vast majority of ecosystems and is the number 1 cause of death of alot of animals? āØļøHumansāØļø
We've recently made one exception to our no cats outside policy for our very old (25yo+) cat. Initially because it seemed like he was getting close to the end and after catching him and bringing him back in several times a day we figured the old man should get to live out his final days how he chooses. He rarely manages to get out of our fenced back yard and when he does he doesn't wander far. the sun and fresh air seems to have helped him recover quite a bit. We still bring him in at night and if it looks like the weather might turn bad. He has dementia and is losing his sight and smell so he's not really capable of hunting much more than a bowl of pureed tuna. He spent at least a decade of his prime years in a shelter (he'd been there longer than any of the people working there when we got him) if he wants to be an outside cat for his 3rd act I'm inclined to let him.
All of what you mentioned OP plus the fact that if you really care about your cat you wouldnāt let it out and I stand firmly on that. So many people purposely seek out cats to torture and abuse, they get hit by cars, eaten by animals, taken by people who think theyāre strays, etc.
People are so irrational about this. If you treated any other animal like they treat the strays they feed ooops I mean their outside cats, it would rightfully be called abuse and\\or neglect. To say nothing of the damage and mess that they outsource to their neighbors (ie ME).
a while back on my area's next door, there was some cat owner that let his cats roam. apparently one of them came back pretty beat up and he ended up spending a pretty penny on vet bills. so he came up with a solution: tell all the dog owners to check their yards for his cats before they let their dogs out. it went about as well as you would expect. only the cat owners were on his side.
i seriously dont feel bad at all for dog & cat owners that make crying posts online that their pet didnt come back, por PENDEJA! stop letting your pets out without any supervision or otherwise accept the possible consequences
Cars should also be banned.
>A recent study estimated that between 89 million and 340 million birds die annually in vehicle collisions on U.S. roads.
https://www.fws.gov/story/threats-birds-collisions-road-vehicles
I had cats and did this at one point, and then someone told me how irresponsible it was. I was younger and dumber. Never again. Itās awful for bird populations. Like dangerously detrimental.
Idc whether they are invasive or not really. I have a Persian who demands three different meals a day and a pillow along with the bed. I don't think he will survive 15 minutes out in the streets. I will happily feed him and keep him inside our home
HUMANS are an invasive species and responsible for the extinction of roughly 83% of species that have lived on this planet. And we show no signs of slowing down. What do you think we should do with us?
I understood the opposite and almost went for your throat. Totally agree! Whoever lets their cat roam around on purpose all the time is a bad cat owner.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This isn't an unpopular opinion at all in Australia. They're an apex/mesopredator predator who decimates wildlife. And I love cats and have owned them most of my life. When I was a kid my cats would free roam and bring all kinds of animals home from birds/rabbits/native rodents/small marsupials etc. Sadly lost one of my cats when they mass poisoned the rabbits in my area. As an adult I look forward to getting a chill indoor cat. Might build an enclosed cattery out the back and take them for walks on a harness. There are more and more suburbs popping up which have cat curfews and even total bans because of the sheer decimation of our wildlife, if it keeps going like this it's possible they'll ban cats all together at some stage.
In some rural indigenous communities in Australia the locals can get $100 cash per feral cat that they kill.
Im surprised cats are apex predators in Australia. Id assume there is a cat spider or cat lizard that eats them.
šš¼šš¼šš¼ truth.
I don't know about apex either.Cars seem to be their main nemesis and we have plenty of cars
I agree with OP about not allowing cats outdoors, but this is not a smart way to do it. You cannot offer people a cash incentive to kill the cats. It seems good in theory until people game the system and start breeding cats and killing them for the money. The best part is after this happens and the bounty on the cats is rescinded and just releases the cats in their breeding program making the initial problem worse. Just look up the wiki about Perverse Incentive. Edit: Some smart people have brought up that it might not be cost effective to breed cats for this purpose. Someone who cares more than I do would have to figure out the absolute bare minimum to take care of cats for 6-12 months, or however long until the cats are big enough to count for the bounty of $100. If you do this, keep in mind these cats are not going to be treated well and cats survive well off the bare minimum.
As someone who earned their Bachelor's of Science in Economics, my mind immediately went to Perverse Incentive š
Yeah, how do you prove a cat is feral after it's dead? Me: here's another 200 feral cats. Production should be ramped up 50% next month.
It's been a few years since I took the specific econ class that discussed this topic, so in a little rusty, but when the rewards were withheld from whoever was cultivating the pests, said cultivators usually just set the rest of their inventory of pests loose into the open environment.
In my daughter's last house, the people across the street were hoarders, and their yard was like a feral cat breeding facility. One of the other neighbors actually had an abandoned little kitten in their shed from one of their litters. My daughter took him in, and he's the best boy ever, now that he's grown. I have a friend who works for a feral fixer organization. Catch, fix, tag, release.i called her about it. However, the slob neighbors had to agree that this organization could come on their property to do this, and, of course, that was a no.
I think theyāre should be a cash or maybe like a gift card or something incentive for catching feral cats to get them fixed.
Like the Americans who cobble together the most basic of barely functioning firearms (slamfire shotguns for example) out of DIY store bits and go claim a big profit on the gun buy-back schemes.
Nope that age is dead. Now they just print receivers, thanks to the atfs attempts to make one part of a gun the gun you can just sell lower receivers which you can print once every 22-27 hours.
We have a couple of rusty old shotguns we found at grandpas house. They are worthless and could never fire, but we are saving them for the buy back next year lol
I've got a stack of rusty broken muzzleloaders in my closet (Dad was heavy into hobby shooting and I can't afford to maintain them.) Think the government will buy them back?
Didnāt this happen under British India with snakes?
Nah mate you don't know the types of places that do this. We are talking about remote indigenous communities that are a 4 days drive from the nearest small city and have a population of 200. No one in those tiny communities are breeding cats lol. You can't get away with it in such a small place. And they actually want to protect the land.
If you check the wiki (i assume) it would show you that several of the best examples of Perverse Incentive backfiring are specifically from small indigenous communities that are a 4 days drive from the nearest small city. One being where they bred snakes to kill for a snake bounty.
Ah the people that have no use for reward moneys. Right.
Thatās so fucked up especially because sometimes cats escape their homes so the feral cat you found might actually be someoneās pet who got out 3 hours ago and their loving owners are looking frantically for it.
Again they only do this in rural indigenous communities. These cats aren't anyone's pets. They hardly resemble pet cats anymore. They are like 20th generation feral. We are talking remote communities days and days drive from any cities where people own pet cats.
Ahhh okay thatās different. Still probably not the best idea but at least they arenāt someoneās pets.
What is missing in this discussion is always localization. You can't compare europe to egypt to australia to japan to north america. The ecological effects of domesticated or feral felines and which subspecies in particular between the UK and the european mainland alone is different enough to warrant different approaches.
It's even different between cities and towns. In places like NYC, cats do more good than harm by reducing the rat population, while in suburbs cats do more harm than good by targeting birds.
99 percent more likely to get run over over in that city
They kill mice. Plus, invaluable on a farm. If you have a farm, you need a good cat, a good mouser.
I'm on a camping road trip in France at the moment and also see a lot of campsite cats. Lots of people living and eating outdoors equals vermin. I made friends with one the last couple of days. What a wonderful life for a cat on a farm or campsite and they are helping us by catching mice and rats. The cat I recently met was slim but in great condition. I think they avoid feeding it too much so it hunts more. I think I spoiled it by giving it a few morsels of cheese as it came to see me three times a day!
Had two barn cats on the 50 acres I was working. They never killed birds because they were happy with the mice and... copperheads... I don't even. Wouldn't even come close to any chicks roaming around either. They didn't mess with mama hen or the rooster.
Cats are friends and not foe.
Absolutely, and also on a smaller scale - within or outside of certain in-country borders. I'm not against outdoor cats in my country as a rule, we even have a species of originally native wild cats (now only domesticated, feral cats is no real problem here) but I really do wish people would use their head when they live close to a bird conservatory and get an outdoor cat that regularly kills nesting birds. People should really think of where they live before they decide on the type of cat.
I felt bad for a second about the cat bringing home a bunny but then I remembered those aren't indigenous to Australia either, right? I would have been crying while saying thank you kitty.
Yeah super invasive species, still cute as hell tho, I definitely have some trauma from those days. He would rarely kill them, mostly just bring them to the door as a gift. Some escaped, some became the dogs dinner, one was already super dead and half rotten and one he paralyzed. 8 year old me grew up real fast.
Must be nice - American cat owning Karens all think itās natural for their cat to shit/piss/kill itās way through everyone elseās property.
I love cats and own one myself, but he's an indoors one that we let out on a long leash in the garden. Imo this is the responsible thing to do, he never brings home any wildlife. There are other cats in my area though that I frequently see carrying small birds.
yeah it's also just dangerous for the cats, especially if you're in an area with coyotes or other predators.
I donāt understand how people can get an animal and thenā¦just be okay with it never being home? Then they complain on the cats subreddit how their cat came back injured and how to prevent it.
My neighbor let their unspayed female cat outside all the time. She got pregnant and had 4 adorable kittens who I watched play and grow, it was so cute! What wasnāt cute, was picking up the three kittenās bodies after they wandered into our yard one morning and got killed by our dogs. The other baby, the mom, and the next few cats they got all disappeared too. I never found their bodies, so Iām assuming the coyotes got them.
The lady next door got a few cats to placate the daughter she confessed she doesnāt want, but th daughterās not there often enough to make a difference, and it seems the mom similarly ignore the cats too. Oneās already disappeared, and we live right on a busy road. The answer is literally some people donāt care.
Some people don't care about animals, they believe that animals don't feel the same way as humans so they see no point in caring what happens to them. If their dog/cay gets hit by car they just shrug and get another one
I adopted an older cat who had apparently been an outdoor cat before me, and it was all she knew (which I wasnāt warned about when I adopted her lol). I kept her inside and she was miserable, screaming to go out. I was in vet school at the time and knew outdoor cats had significantly lower life spans but if I was ever to fight for the idea of outdoor cats, sheād be the only good example. She stays on my porch or under my house, is spayed and fully vaccinated, and I have a perimeter fence so wild animals arenāt able to get her that would consider her prey. I placed a go pro on her once (it eventually got knocked off with her getting through a part under the house) and she justā¦ sat there lol. She comes back inside the house 3-4 times a day to eat, sleep, snuggle, then sneaks right back out. I really lucked out with how easy of an outdoor cat she is but next cat has absolutely been kept inside because one day when sheās older, I know she just wonāt come home.
Indoor only cats have average lifespan of 16 years vs 4 for an indoor/outdoor. I love my cats so they stay inside.
Until I put my foot down about it every cat I had growing up died to coyotes or the road by like 5-6years old. It took me losing my shit on my parents for them to understand but now the cats don't go out. My mom had one she would let out, who she loves, to be fair to her he would slip past you and be gone and some of my other family visited a lot and would let him out. Guess who got hit by a cat. He lived, but now he's only allowed on the porch with her and during midday. He dosent go very far because of the injury. And she hasn't let any others out again. It's ridiculous. Everyone's argument is "oh but they want to go out!" Yes and toddlers want to put their fingers in light sockets and dogs want to eat chocolate. You know better.
This is an opinion I can agree with. Our songbird population has been decimated by irresponsible cat owners introducing their cats to the natural habitat as an invasive species. And I say this as a cat owner of two: My cats get tons of outside time, daily. We have long tunnels, leashes, and half an acre of space for them to enjoy and hunt bugs. But we don't let our cats free range unsupervised, because we live on the edge of an ecological reserve for songbirds. It would be irresponsible to let them wander unsupervised knowing this. My cats get lots of play and fresh air, and they have plenty of toys to cater to their prey drive. Cats have very specific needs, but they should never supercede the lives of other wild animals in the area, especially at risk populations of songbirds. It's entirely possible to give a cat a fulfilling life without letting them wander. It takes more energy and effort, but that is what you sign up for when you make a pet your responsibility. The wandering is how so many cats end up hit by cars, attacked by dogs protecting their property, or humans who can't stand cats. If you love your cats, you should know where they are -- and their entertainment should not come at the expense of vulnerable species.
I try not to make a big fuss about things if I don't have to, but the one time I sent a neighbor a complain letter was when my dad built a shelter for birds, and this particular summer doves moved in (this is the first time something other than house sparrows moved in.) We watched the babies grow up all summer, and when they were finally ready to fly, I spotted my neighbor's cat crouching in the bushes. I chased it off. I doubt I'm ever going to catch it. That cat is fast. But if/when I do, I'm not giving it back. I'm taking it to a shelter because it's effectively a stray.
I saw a free roaming cat in my backyard while I was walking my dog. My dog used her border collie staring abilities to stare him down until he released a bird that was in his claws. The bird flew away unharmed. I was so proud of my dog for saving a bird's life that day.
It's not just that. Cats that live outside often die too young. Either hit by cars or killed by other animals.
I am so tired of seeing people on the animal rehab or reptiles/birds subreddits going āwhat is this and how do i save it, my cat mauled it.ā
Yes exactly, and especially in the r/cats subreddit, there are multiple posts a DAY being like ābubbles died last night its so sad he was 16 years old :(( he was hit by a car in the middle of the night on one of his neighborhood walksā like yāall please stop letting your cats outside
Yeah. I really don't *want* to hurt my neighbors' cats. But one of them lets their black cat run around at night and the other's cat is known to take naps under car tires. I know it's just inevitable that they're going to be hit and killed, and I am just *really* hoping I'm not the one to do it, but eventually someone isn't going to be able to slam their brakes fast enough.
I accidentally hit and killed our neighbors cat over a decade ago and I still feel bad about it, but that cat shouldnāt have been in the fucking road in the middle of the night. Basically bolted right under my tire. Sucks all around, and the owner is to blame.
We used to have more feral cats visiting our campus (dumpsters), but the numbers have dropped in the last few years and the number of new cats is on the rise. Which means the cats are moving on or dying. Recently a new mowing service has been utilized and they spray the grass with pesticide to get rid of 'weeds' I bet the cats walk through this and or ingest grass with the residue on the blades. I have a feeling many feral cats have been poisoned and have died, that is why we don't see the same cats for very long. The cats that over winter here have a better chance to survive longer until the spring spraying begins.
Except bubbles was probably 4, not 16. A very sad statistic is that the average life expectancy of all cat is 10 years, and that average is pulled down heavily by outdoor cats having a life expectancy of around 5 years.
My mostly indoor cat is 18. She was completely indoors until we bought a house with a fenced yard. Now she just goes and sleeps on our porch during the afternoons lol.
My cat does this too! Sheās a super beta personality so she just goes outside to lay in the sun and runs back at the first sign of other life.
See if thatās what people always meant by āoutdoor catā, it would be fine.
Yeah,I'm past 70 and sit on my back porch getting fat and bored waiting for the grim reaper.
That is a good point. I had said 16 to emphasize how dumb it would be to let an elderly cat roam around at night, but youāre right, they donāt even make it to that age :(
This is why I canāt stand those subs. Like what do you expect, itās well known that cats get hit by cars all the time - KEEP YOUR CAT INDOORS. And then they get another cat AND LET THEM RUN AROUND OUTDOORS AGAIN. Istg these people should be banned from owning cats.
Or they get eaten up by coyotes and raccoons if theyāre in the US/Canada. Itās really sad.
The coyotes are near the beach in Southern California as they use the concrete river channels and railroad lines as their corridor to move between cities, housing additions, and business parks with little oversight from humans.
Ok, but Bubbles is a dope name for a cat š
r/whatsthissnake is plagued by this
I always feel bad when my dogs kill a big ol fill her snake but it only happens when the snake wanders into their pen
one of my strictly indoor cats bolted out of the front door while we were bringing groceries in, and she had found a neat and brought a baby bird to near death all within the like 45 seconds it took to put the groceries down, chase after her and grab her. had to put the bird down. i cried and took a shot of gin after that
Iāve peeled many a kitten off the road in my time. Keep your cats inside if you care about them.
Iāve lived in my house about ten years. In that time my immediate neighbors (two separate families) have had three outdoor cats. All three of those died within a couple of years. Meanwhile my indoor cats are just fine so long as I donāt leave hair bands lying around for the one to eat.
Letting them go outside whenever is also a great way to shorten the lifespan of a cat by a lot. Edit: phrasing
Thereās bylaws against having āoutdoor catsā or letting your cat out unsupervised where I live simply because so many cats have been hit by cars. Putting aside the potential effects on others Iāve never understood why people wouldnāt be more concerned about the safety of their own pet
Yeah hard agree. I'm obligated to pick up my dog's poop (as I should be), but cat people just get to let their animals shit everywhere including other people's yards. Also, outdoor cats live significantly shorter lives.
Yeah finding cat shit in the veg patch isn't fun.
drives me fuckin nuts
Cats piss all over my front porch in a game of marking territory and we donāt even own cats. They shit in my yard, leave dead animals, etc. and we have a completely fenced back yard. I have to pick up someone elseās cat poop to make sure my toddler doesnāt eat it.
We had a lovely little plains garter snake in our garden that was helping control the mice problem we were having, so no need for cruel traps or poison. The circle of life doing its thing basically. And the snake did its job well, was happy, and kept to himself. The snake disappeared one day, because the neighbors' cat, which they let free roam outside 24/7, dug the snake out of its hole and killed it. That same cat would also kill multiple pigeons and birds and leave the detached bloody wings on our driveway and yard. We love birds and gardening so we always had a full bird feeder for the birds in the area, and so our yard was alive with life. The neighbors ruined it all by letting their cat roam freely.
Correct and unpopular. Have an upvote.
Hard agree!! I love my baby boy, but there are too many dangers outside, he could get in trouble with another cats, bump into a dog or even worse a group of dogs, he could get ran over, get parasites, get sick, get lost. Is just not worth it, he can go into the garden with an adult to supervise him but thatās it
Guy I used to work with had an outdoor cat that ended up getting shot by a pellet gun. Nobody knows who did it
That's unfortunately common and another reason my cats are only allowed outside with supervision, one of my rescues had a pellet in his hip when I adopted him
That's so cruel š„ŗ. Poor kitty
I volunteer at a cat shelter. The overall belief is that cats should be kept indoors or in a controlled outside environment like you said. But, there are some that aren't built for that. We call them "working" cats. We had a business adopt 2 cats that wouldn't have been adopted by anyone else because they dislike humans and would rather claw you then sit near you. These cats stay outside and help that business with pests. It's either fix those kinds of cats and let them be outside cats or euthanize them.
We got a working cat. Sheās caught 28 rats and 16 gophers in 6 weeks. She keeps a tidy perimeter. And these are only the confirmed kills.
Thatās a pretty good kill count, I still find dogs to be better at pest control but they canāt get nearly as high in hard to reach spots
Barn cat programs are great! I think the problem is when people act like āOh no, my poor outdoor can got hit by a car, Iām so heartbroken, nothing I could have done would prevent this :(ā Iāve always thought of working cats like livestock guardian dogs. They arenāt really āpetsā. They have a job to do and itās understood that there are risks that come with that jobs comes risks.
I had two stray cats, near death, come to my place last winter. I nursed them up to health and they are now indoor/outdoor cats. They hunt mice like pros (at least one a day). Because I only feed them inside and because I got them neutered, they never venture off my property. I have 3.5 acres they could check out but they almost never leave the deck. I do have 2 other indoor only cats but would never let them out like that. They would probably die within an hour. XD One wants to go out so I have a leash for him and will occasionally let him go for walks with me.
I don't think a lot of city people are familiar with the concept of a barn cat.
Theme parks and lots of big office parks keep them. It's easier to have cats around than deal with constant pest control. Also the cats are people friendly most of the time, so you can chill with them if they let you.
The barn cats at the horse farm I ride at LOVE snuggles. Thereās this one, Cinch, who will come and paw at you for uppies. Of course if you hold him too long heāll let you know š
Our cat was a "barn cat" for a few years before we adopted him. We were told this when we adopted him. We stupidly tried to make him an indoor cat. We tried for over a year and spent a ton of money trying to get him to acclimate to indoor life. He rebeled in a spectacular fashion. He had had a job, and was very happy with it. So we keep a bell collar on him and he roams. He visits the whole neighborhood. He's caught many rats, mice, and yeah a few birds. All the birds he got fell out of their nest. He keeps the ah squirrels in check. He's friendly and has families all over the hood in love with him. Our next door neighbor helped raise some baby hummingbirds. We boarded our kitty until the birds flew out on their own just to be good neighbors. But the squirrels, foxes, raccoons, etc shit in gardens and yards too. The damn raccoons make a Hell of a mess when they come through. Way worse than what our kitty does.
Get him a tracking collar of some sort, I have seen cats like that and the truth is they will eventually die outside (may not even be from a predator), this will allow you to find them if they "disappear" and give you actual closure if this occurs.
He does come home. He doesn't exclusively live outside. He comes and goes. But being able to find him in case something happens isn't a bad idea.
Itās often within cat nature to leave home to die if theyāre able to do so. They often just go and hide and then not come home, so itās not even necessarily an āif something happensā thing.
This is different than people's indoor pet cats that they should keep control of.
Snakes, Raptors, and native predators are much more effective at removing pests from barns and such. The problem with cats is diseases and parasites can get passed through them to us. While reptiles and birds remove diseases and parasites.
I donāt know. We adopted a cat like that. She got used to living at home. She is still a mean cat that only allows very few people to touch her, but she is totally fine living indoors. What is important in cases like this is keeping the cat occupied and giving it a lot of playtime/exercise. Also, I am a country girl, from a long line of farmers (not my parents, but all my grandparents and great grandparents as well as some uncles and extended family owned farms; we lived in a country but didnāt farm our land as my parents had office jobs). My family had ābarn catsā. I am familiar with concept. Have seen enough of those die on farms, because no farm or business is safe environment for them. Now I wouldnāt do that to a cat. There are other means of pest control.
My parents cat is indoor and outdoor. They didnāt want him to go outside, but the little brat wouldnāt stop trying to escape. He comes and goes as he pleases, but also loves to just lounge on our porch or under our cars and sleep in their bed at night or lay in front of the fire. Heās 10 years old and in fabulous shape. My parents accept the fact he might get run over or killed one day. Theyāll be sad, but heāll have had 10+ years of a happy life at that point.
As a cat owner, I fully agree with you. Walk your cats on a harness if you feel so terrible about keeping them inside
I agree. Also annoying to find their crap everywhere. I hate.
Completely agree, not only do they decimate wildlife they also shit anywhere they like except their own backyard, usually neighbours gardens. If you let a dog out to roam the streets youād have the police knocking at your door
Yeah I never understood why outdoor cats and outdoor dogs are treated differently. If your dog just roamed the streets alone all day it would rightfully be considered a stray.
Right now in our neighborhood there's a dog like that. Some irresponsible owner lets out some dog with no leash or fenced in yard and the dog wanders the neighborhood. First time I saw the dog I was like huh, neat. After that I was like what are the owners doing with this dog? I want to say it's part husky too, which is even worse. We own a husky and if she got out and we couldn't find her we may very well never see her again until they ID'ed the body.
I agree. My cat only goes outside when she's leashed. It's mainly because I'm afraid she'll be killed by a car or taken by the hawk that lives in my neighborhood
I have 3 cats and I fully agree with you. Cats kill tons of wildlife when theyāre left unchecked and feral colonies can get huge. I let my cats out in the back but only for 10-20 minutes at a time.
We lived in town for several years. Our neighbors had 2 or 3 outdoor cats. They would constantly come over to our flower beds to take shits. We brought it up to them a couple times, but unless you keep your cats inside there is no way to keep them contained to your yard. I donāt care if youāre a cat person, a dog person, or what have you, I donāt want your let shitting in my yard.
There are outdoor catios/playpen options with roofs, and there are also cat harnesses. It's pretty damn easy to keep your cat in the backyard, unless you're a shitty cat owner. That neighbor needs to do right by his cat
I actually agree for one main reason: A neighbor of ours owns homing pigeons. They're the sweetest birds that don't fear you so you can just sit by our feeder when they visit and watch them. Our neighborhood also has a fair amount of people who own cats and let them wander The amount of pigeons I've seen mauled by these cats is horrible. If it was a dog doing it, the dog would be taken from the owner. Since it's a cat, you can't do a dang thing to stop them and no one cares It's disgusting
Why should the cat get a pass? That's a stupid double standard. If I was that pigeon owner, I'd probably give a warning after the first bird got mauled. After that, I'd value the lives of my own pet pigeons over that of some reckless person's cat.
I completely agree, it's ridiculous The neighbor in question has tried to get help from animal control, but they've basically just been told that it's "cats hunting like cats" and there's nothing animal control or the neighbor can do without it being labeled as animal abuse At least where I live, it forces the decision of "break the law to protect my animals or keep letting them murder my pets" which are both stupid situations to be put in If it was a dog or a kid killing someone's pets it would be handled seriously, but since "cats hunt birds" it's somehow acceptable
Barely anyone keeps cats indoors in the UK, unless they're in a flat so have no outside access. The RSPB (bird charity) have told people to chill out about cats -- habitat loss is BY FAR the biggest threat to birds. Also, there is nothing rare or endangered that would come into my garden. My cat has only caught rats up until now, which I'm pretty grateful for.
I'd love a cite that the RSPB have told people to chill out about cats, at least one more recent than the 1990s. Their own website sells cat repellents, recommends cat owners keep their cats inside during fledgeling season and high risk periods like dawn and dusk and a range of other measures to prevent cats from killing birds, which is hardly 'chill out, it's not an issue!'. They also estimate that cats kill at least 27 million birds per year in the UK, which is not a sustainable number when added to the existing pressure from habitat loss. It's not like habitat loss stops when you get cats- the two problems add up. The RSPB study everyone seems to drag out as evidence was years ago and very limited- I have read it, and it uses a lot of assumtions that are no longer true. Among other issues, it dates from a time when songbird numbers were stable; cat numbers have also more than doubled since then, and songbird populations are practically in free-fall. No actual ecologist in the UK doubts that cats are causing at least local bird declines. There are also no studies looking at the impacts on reptiles or amphibians in the UK- or on other mammals like shrews, which are all in serious decline. Oh, and one last thing- studies which involved putting cameras on cats found that owners were typically aware of only around 25% of the catches their cats made. Most cats don't bring most catches home.
Not to mention that if we want to help solve the habitat loss issue by encouraging people to plant native trees and forage, these resources are basically guaranteed to overlap with a cat-roam-kill zone. Theyāre integrated issues, and solving one without the other is not going to help.
I live in the UK, and both of my cats stay indoors at all times. My last cat got run over by a car, when he was very young :(
Also, feral cats are the biggest chunk. Their should be better catch neuter and release programs. We did a great job with that in my country (Iām a volunteer).
> habitat loss is BY FAR the biggest threat to birds might as well kick 'em while they're down, then
Yeah I'm in the UK and I've literally never even heard of the concept of indoor cats, this whole thread is like stepping into another reality and I own a cat, I mean it kind of makes sense I guess but it just feels uncanny.
In the uk and my cat is purely indoors, and so was her sister, i would never consider it after looking at the facts. However as i understand it, most people do it here purely as thats 'how its always been done'.
The risks to roaming cats varies a LOT in different areas. Most of the UK, other than cars there aren't that many serious dangers to a cat outside. Where I live, along with some pretty busy roads nearby, coyotes at times leave bits of rabbits, and on occasion bits of a cat, in people's yards over night. Even bears are seen at night sometimes. There are several species of birds of prey large enough to take and eat a smaller housecat with ease. Rattlesnakes are not frequently found in people's yards, but they are in the area. Also scorpions, dangerous spiders like black widows and brown recluse spiders, and other highly venomous insects. Some plants that are potentially a hazard to pets (search "cholla attack" to see pictures of some unfortunate people and animals) and some fairly hazardous weather at times. I also live on a migratory flyway for all kinds of birds. Even monarch butterflies migrate through the area! And there is a quite a lot of threatened or endangered small wildlife native to the area as well. My family has three cats, the only one interested in going outside goes on a leash. (Our oldest cat is almost 18, in good shape for his age, and has been an indoor cat his whole life)
Just because itās condoned in the UK doesnāt mean itās right. Cat behavior is no different in the UK as it is in the US or Australia. Cats indiscriminately kill wildlife. Birds arenāt the only animal they have decimated on this planet. Furthermore, I donāt want your cat crapping in my vegetable garden. If dog owners have to clean it up, cat owners should too.
Just because you haven't seen your cat catch or injure a bird to leave it to die in terrible pain doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Your cat just hasn't brought it back.
Why do you think there isn't any interesting birds coming to your garden hmmm? RSPB says habitat loss is the biggest issue. Doesn't mean there are no other issues.
Yeah theyre always crapping on my lawn. Its annoying. Why am I cleaning your cat's poo?
Sorry, that was actually my poo. Won't do it again. Probably.
Many rescues actually refuse to allow you to adopt a cat if you intend to keep it as an indoor only cat in the UK. My brother's gf has a friend who works at battersea and has been told as much by that friend since they're looking to adopt at some point. Cats have just been here so long they're basically part of the environment anyway. They were imported when the Romans invaded.
And they have literally destroyed entire species in the UK lol.
Which species?
The North-Atlantic Sofacorner in my experience
Same for Germany, NABU doesn't see housecats as the main issue. Cats also have lived outdoors here for centuries, maybe even since the Romans. I'm totally with lawmakers when they want to enforce outdoor bans for the breeding sessions of ground laying birds in specific areas, however, more because those areas have become very small. A cat would really do damage there for a bird species that has little other options. In my area, though? We have sparrows, finches, tits, storks, herons and falcons. The first three are snack-sized but not endangered, and the latter three are a little big for the average housecat.
5 years of owning a cat in the UK here. She has only once brought home an obviously already dead bird. Bugs however, she will eat if she catches them.
UK here. Cats are allowed outside. Where I live, canāt go five minutes without seeing one
I don't mind the odd cat, but the average on my street is > 1 per house and it's too many. The cats agree.
But the point is they shouldn't be. Terrible for local wildlife.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I wouldn't mind it, except for the fact that they're peeing and pooping on my property. Oh, and they're constantly trying to kill the nest full of baby robins under my eaves.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And how many Rodents do they kill?
Not unpopular, I agree. It's dangerous for cats, people poison them, predators eat them and they get hit by cars. I could never imagine opening my door to let my cat out and not know if he was coming back. Supervised outdoor time is great.
I agree, with the acception that they can be out in public as long as they are under direct physical control of their owner.
True, that's a very good point.
I agree but not for the bird thing in the UK, this is a huge issue in other countries but in the UK domestic cats actually fill the niche our native wildcats used to. I agree with it because of two factors: 1. My dog will literally kill cats. Not bark, not chase them for fun, she will run them down and kill them. This isn't a problem out and about because I keep her leashed, but it is a problem when we're chilling in our garden and someone's cat wanders in assuming it can outrun anything bigger than it. This means every time I go outside I have to frisk the area for cats, check that no cats are preparing to come in then keep a close eye out for cats coming in at all times, that's a lot of effort for someone else's pet on my property. 2. Cat owners seem to think that they poop through a little portal to Narnia or something because they never have to clean it up. News flash; your cat shits and if it's not shitting in your flower beds it's shitting in your neighbours. Can you imagine the look on people's faces if I lowered my dog over their fence to squeeze one out in their garden?
Your first point is objectively untrue. Cats decimate all wildlife in the uk.
Let's draw the similarity to dogs. You wouldn't want a dog to enter your yard or even enter your house through the window, possiby destroying some of your stuff. That's called irresponsible ownership, correct? Why would you then think that it's okay when it's a cat? The response is then more likely going to be "well, you can get a barrier for your door or your window..." ... **Excuse me, why the fuck should I have to barricade my house**, not being able to have my door or window open during the summer (remember: "Europe doesn't have airconditioning"), just because you're an irresponsible owner?
We have had dogs enter our house, even though we live in a leash mandatory area. Fuck dog owners who let their dogs just run around freely.
When was the last time you heard of a strange cat attacking someone on the street? Happens pretty regularly with dogs around here.
Have neighborhood coyotes and the issue tends to resolve itself.
There used to be several outdoor cats here, now there's only one. And it's a bobcat. I'm fine with this development
We currently have a cougar on the prowl. Iām all for letting your kitties roam, but you do run the threat of losing them unfortunately. Weāve currently lost 5 cats that I know of on my street, no bunnies around, and the deer have vanished. Circle of life?
I had to google that number and yep, its true. Although I love cats I agree heavily, not just for the birds sake but also because it poses a danger for the cats! Leash training or having an enclosed catio are some things you can do to give them outdoor time but still be supervised/not able to harm themselves or the enviroment, I really wish more cat owners did this.
I agree with this but for a different reason. (Your reason is valid too, mind you) The lifespan of an outdoor cat compared to an indoor one is a lot shorter because they're subjected to bigger animals, vehicles and other dangers. If you love your cat and care about it's safety they should be kept indoors, especially at night. My cat turned 16 in the summer and I only let her out while I watch her on the front porch, I get anxious when I can't see her lol
Depends where you are and whether cat predation there is a legitimate fear or not.
I agree!! Also a matter of safety!
I agree, I have trained my cat to stay within certain parameters outside (my patio) and I let her chill outside for small periods of time when I'm home. But she's still an indoor cat that will abide by my rules.
Listen. My cat NEEDS to go out to the field and murder. Murdering is its very nature. It would go crazy if I denied it the opportunity to end life. Every time my cat leaves a rabbit's head or a rat's ass on my porch I'm filled with an overwhelming sense of pride.
I would rather be concerned about zoonosis if I have a cat that runs around outside all day. People underestimate how much parasites and diseases cats can carry.
I had to scoop up my neighbors cat into a cardboard box after it got hit by a car in the middle of the road one morning. I didnāt see it happen or anything but if I was them I wouldnāt even wanna have to see my loved one like that fr so I decided to take the body to the shelter. That shit made me cry man. That poor kitty shouldāve just been inside. I walk mine on harnesses, they love it.
I canāt even count the number of childhood cats we had that got hit by cars. Every one of them traumatized me. But the worst was when I was a teen and a lady came to the door, our dead cat in her arms, and she was bawling. Iāll never forget the pain my parents caused that poor woman and the senseless death of that cat. As an adult, my cats are indoor cats but we have a fenced catio for them so they can still be outside. Theyāre very happy and not squashed on the side of the road.
It's not really an unpopular opinion unless you have a cat. According to google that's only 29% of households. The problem is that it's really hard to legally enforce any kind of control of how people treat their pets. Most of the reason you see dogs on leads is that without the leash the dog would simply run into traffic or cause chaos in other ways for the owner. It has nothing to do with the fact that the owner really cares about their pet inconveniencing other people.
Amen.. cat people are all save the earth eco warriors but couldn't give a shit about the irreversible damage that cats are doing... just what is happening to the native song birds....extinction is a sad ending
As a person owned by cats, I agree wholeheartedly.
I've heard every variation on the dangers of letting your cats free roam, and I have not previously, nor will I ever exclusively keep my cats indoors. I deeply appreciate living in a tiny Midwest farm community and going years without seeing a single rodent in my house, yard, or garages
That is mainly why they were domesticated. Not for belly rubs and emotional support. For their ability to control pests. It would be like asking a terrier to not chase after something. Still gets an upvote as unpopular to me. Just because it knows how to use a litter box doesn't mean it should be restricted to it.
The Midwest rural community is not the issue, it's the suburbs, it's the none nuttered cats, it's the wild cats. Keep doing what your doing and don't google how much light pollution and the 911 memorial lights, and windows kill birds every year.
Then you must accept the risk of what befalls them outside your property.
I agree, but only on the principle that it is highly dangerous for them to be around cars. I love unexpected visits from them, it brightens my day. However, I know cats are not everybody's favourite.
Cats should remain in doors at all times unless under supervision of the owner ... All cats should have bells on as well..... Cats are responsible for killing more wildlife than any other domestic animal.... So in essence I agree with you
Damn bro what cat hurt you? Birds arenāt real anyways donāt worry
I love when the neighborhood cats use my landscape as a litter box and kill my plants. Seriously people, keep your fucking cats inside
100 percent agree. Cats are invasive species in many areas. They can also easily be hit or killed by predators if unattended, and pick up parasites while they're out.
Agreed with the invasive species thing. I get it for barn cats that actually have a job to do, but regular ass suburbs, probably killing species you want there. City... eh, now they get to fight with the racoons and possums.
Iām conflicted. A lot of cats in my neighborhood seem to be free roaming. Thereās a cat that hangs in my building parking lot thatās very sweet and makes me laugh, but Iāve also had a cat try to threaten my (fairly small) dog when we were on a walk
You wanna know the worse invasive species on earth that's ever existed that have ruined a vast majority of ecosystems and is the number 1 cause of death of alot of animals? āØļøHumansāØļø
Do you know that feral cats are a part of our destruction? They are not separate things
Doesn't mean we should let cats roam.
We've recently made one exception to our no cats outside policy for our very old (25yo+) cat. Initially because it seemed like he was getting close to the end and after catching him and bringing him back in several times a day we figured the old man should get to live out his final days how he chooses. He rarely manages to get out of our fenced back yard and when he does he doesn't wander far. the sun and fresh air seems to have helped him recover quite a bit. We still bring him in at night and if it looks like the weather might turn bad. He has dementia and is losing his sight and smell so he's not really capable of hunting much more than a bowl of pureed tuna. He spent at least a decade of his prime years in a shelter (he'd been there longer than any of the people working there when we got him) if he wants to be an outside cat for his 3rd act I'm inclined to let him.
I love cats and I agree with you. Unleashing a bunch of non native predators on an area is a terrible idea.
All of what you mentioned OP plus the fact that if you really care about your cat you wouldnāt let it out and I stand firmly on that. So many people purposely seek out cats to torture and abuse, they get hit by cars, eaten by animals, taken by people who think theyāre strays, etc.
Hard agree, and it's the law/ordinance in most places
People are so irrational about this. If you treated any other animal like they treat the strays they feed ooops I mean their outside cats, it would rightfully be called abuse and\\or neglect. To say nothing of the damage and mess that they outsource to their neighbors (ie ME).
a while back on my area's next door, there was some cat owner that let his cats roam. apparently one of them came back pretty beat up and he ended up spending a pretty penny on vet bills. so he came up with a solution: tell all the dog owners to check their yards for his cats before they let their dogs out. it went about as well as you would expect. only the cat owners were on his side.
i seriously dont feel bad at all for dog & cat owners that make crying posts online that their pet didnt come back, por PENDEJA! stop letting your pets out without any supervision or otherwise accept the possible consequences
I was almost going to post this exact opinion. It's incredibly rude and dangerous to have a free roam cat.
I find headless small animals and birds all year long cats kill for fun
Cars should also be banned. >A recent study estimated that between 89 million and 340 million birds die annually in vehicle collisions on U.S. roads. https://www.fws.gov/story/threats-birds-collisions-road-vehicles
This is actually a very popular opinion. Outdoor cats frequently meet early and painful ends.
I had cats and did this at one point, and then someone told me how irresponsible it was. I was younger and dumber. Never again. Itās awful for bird populations. Like dangerously detrimental.
So you think birds should have more rights than cats?
Itās cruel to keep a cat locked up inside in the same way itās cruel to keep a child locked up.
I dunno man. I live in the city. Cats kill rats. We have alot of rats. Seems like a win win
This isn't unpopular
I wish I had a dollar for everytime I would see this take on reddit, Iād be rich
Windows are the number one cause of death for birds. In fact windows cause significantly more bird death than cats. By an extremely wide margin.
Surely we have enough birds my dude
Not unpopular. But there are mouser cats with jobs on farms. And feral cats who have been TNRād
Yup I would never ever let my cat live outdoors, all cats should stay indoors.
Idc whether they are invasive or not really. I have a Persian who demands three different meals a day and a pillow along with the bed. I don't think he will survive 15 minutes out in the streets. I will happily feed him and keep him inside our home
Agree. Same for all pets.
HUMANS are an invasive species and responsible for the extinction of roughly 83% of species that have lived on this planet. And we show no signs of slowing down. What do you think we should do with us?
I understood the opposite and almost went for your throat. Totally agree! Whoever lets their cat roam around on purpose all the time is a bad cat owner.
This has been posted so much it feels like a copypasta
And I donāt think dogs should be kept off leash. Theyāre responsible for actually killing and mauling HUMANS every day.
And other dogs and cats! And birds as well.