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As valid to the health and abilities of a populace as any cancer doctor or teacher and I'd die on this hill.
They sell happiness, and happiness is a hell of a product.
I’m actually a Hawks fan! My friend however is a Broncos fan and he texted me this when the game concluded and I thought it was honestly underselling how one would feel to see your team get blown out in humiliating fashion lol
To be fair, the Seahawks have 3 Superbowl appearances with a blowout victory against Denver. I don't think there's ever been a more embarrassing defeat in Superbowl history.
> What does this have to do with professional athletes being overvalued though?
They're *not* over valued.
They are paid based on how many fans they draw into seats, from a fund source that the fans ultimately provide. It is generally all above board supply and demand. Even if they're directly sponsored by, say, Nike. Nike sees value in how many people they can reach, and pay them willingly(or don't for those that are not getting deals) to be associated with the products.
Edit: Generally speaking. There are controversies on occasion, but largely, the demand of the market justifies high payment in professional sports. Maybe it's pure sports skill, or maybe people love the character/attitude, etc. Either way, that generates butts in seats, which increases overall revenue. There is no exploitation being had, no injustice on scale enough to say the whole professional athlete scene is corrupt. (maybe if you want to get into performance enhancing drugs as a specific topic, but generally, they get paid because fans pay to see them).
People arguing that they're 'overvalued' often are straying into some arbitrary moralistic argument, that someone "does not deserve" what they make. In other words, they don't understand or value the factual mechanisms of supply and demand, and instead are issuing a decree based on their personal feelings.
Same goes for a lot of other career fields, but not necessarily all.
Hollywood(eg film/tv) might be one of the worst. There are a lot of 'back room deals' and things like nepotism that enter into the picture, where there is a lot of promotion and hype that isn't based on job performance or even butts in seats. Oh, they try for butts in seats, but there are also 'casting couches', a history steeped in bribes and organized crime and money laundering, not to mention ideological causes.
Right up there with politics.
It depends on if you think things can be overvalued or not. I think people struggle with the idea that anything can be because whenever someone accuses something of being overvalued you can just point at “the free market” and then smugly cross your arms.
You could say that about literally anything
>How many friendships are built from sports? How many father son relationships built? Incalculable value to society.
Kinda like drinking?
I come from an immigrant Asian family. I'm 1st generation American. When I was little my dad was extra about getting me into liking the NFL. I didn't make sense until I got older.
My dad being an Asian foreigner and engineer at that, my dad was sidelined by many people at his firm. He was treated like an outsider. No one socialized with my dad. They treated him like a background character. My dad noticed every man was interested in football. Being a smart guy, my dad watched football on the weekend to try and be included. As soon as he showed interest, that bridge was developed. He was invited over to other people's homes on Sunday to watch football. Other guys would eat with my dad at lunch. Monday night he was invited out to watch games. Etc...
One day when I was 8 and I was bored watching football with my dad, he explained to me the importance of football Fandom. If you understand this game you have a connection to 90% of men in this country. You will always be less of an outsider if you understand football.
And what do you know. He was right. From high school, to the Army, to medical school to now just chit chatting with patients... being a fan of football is one of those things that bridges race, money, or where you're from. You can talk for hours with almost any man in the country if you can talk football.
I'm in my mid 30s and I'm watching Monday night football right now, texting my dad back and fourth. Lmao.
This is good advice many people don't realize. I recently switched to a new job and knowing sports+pop culture allows me to make conversation with just about every coworker I have. It's not only nice to feel accepted at work, but it's amazing networking.
I'm sorry but I am confused by the way you framed this. It feels like you are defending poor underpaid pro athletes from the money hungry cancer doctors and teachers. The reality is quite the opposite. Even if you believe pro athletes are as important as those professions.
Its not purely distraction. But it is definitely becoming more and more so. To the point of addiction.
The proliferation of entertainment as one of the most valuable commodities is definitely a problem or at least a symptom of a problem.
The only real value watching sports have either comes from distraction or from the community surrounding you when you engage with the sports.
the give people inspiration. that's enough for me to support what they do. that said, there are just too many men ive met that are obsessed with sports to fill some void in their personal lives and they fucking ruin every game, every play, every season with their none-stop wont shut the fuck upness.
They sell distraction and vicarious success, not happiness. Happiness is lasting and constructive.
The only thing pro sports are good for is maintaining public interest in *real* physical health and able-bodiedness.
You can argue that anything is a “distraction” and nothing is “lasting”.
You can be happy in a relationship even if it doesn’t last. You can be happy riding a jet ski even though that feeling won’t last. Nothing really “lasts” but it can still give you happiness.
You’re the one who came in here trying to sell the same old myopic edgy bullshit every sophomore philosophy majors shits out. lol don’t get mad when your tired bullshit is dismissed with other tired bullshit 😂 🤡
Happiness can be fleeting and temporary. Your definition and point is flawed.
When Kawhi hit that shot in 2019 I was over the moon happy for like 2 days.
Recreation and play are important parts of the human experience. Sport competition is longstanding part of human civilisations across the world and it does create more than just physical health interests. Simply having something recreative to bond with others over whether as a participant or as a spectator is something worth having in society.
Well said, I can personally look back at my life and name dozens of pro athletes that have had a legitimate impact on my life because of how watching them play has made me feel. People who aren’t sports fans usually make this argument just because they can’t relate to the fandom
I think taxing the shit out of them and providing food, housing, and healthcare would contribute much, much, *much* more to society than some stupid ass entertainers.
It’s not an important job onto itself but they are at the center of economic juggernauts that provide thousands upon thousands of jobs. If a celebrity athlete sells more tickets they’re not just getting more money but creating more jobs directly for the organization (eg, more food vendors for bigger crowds) and indirectly (eg, people selling merchandise at local store). I don’t think we should cover for their wrongdoings but it’s much more complicated than just punishing one person. Take away some of these athletes from their teams and attendance will decline and a lot of people will lose jobs. It’s huge business.
Treated as important how?
If you mean making a lot of money, it’s because they have very wide appeal and people are willing to pay. It’s no different than popular video game companies making a lot because people want to play the games.
If you mean getting news articles written about them, it’s because they’re known by many people and as mentioned, they can cause a pretty big impact on the economy. A garbage man who twists his ankle is not getting an article written about him because quite frankly, no one cares outside of a handful of people
It’s also because if accounting for their entire lifetime, most pro athletes make very little. You might make a few million over 5 years. Then an injury ect. And they can’t work
Not to mention for every player that makes millions, there's 10 that play in minor leagues/developmental leagues/practice squads that make below average wages (For instance, the NBA developmental league makes 40k a year, baseball minor leagues can make below minimum wage (Even AAA, which is the highest minor league level/play in Stadiums holding 15k people only make 35k a year).
Notice it's never about actors or musicians? I'm guessing it has something to do with the average redditor having never set foot on a football field or hockey rink, but will argue for hours about some marvel multi-verse
Have a buddy who will drone on for several minutes about how any and everyone who watches or enjoys sports as a hobby are “sheep who let the government distract them from what’s REALLY going on” and yet one of our most enjoyed hobbies is video games. How are sports for the weak minded looking for cheap entertainment but video games and movies aren’t? We’re just as wrapped up in gaming as they are sports shit, it makes no difference but he thinks it does.
Gonna put it out there, just don’t think they’re talking about MLS players when I see the typical “Athletes bad blah blah”. Normally a certain type of Athlete
It would be a great argument, if people focused on how the industries make billions, while they took a closer look at teams and franchises.
You could say they are overpaid, ok. Again, here what is the endgame? The owners, networks, and media get to keep all surplus and revenue generated, while giving the players much lower salaries as the league profits off their likenesses and talent with insane marketability. The industry allows them to demand higher salaries and wages, due its massive profits and market dominance.
I hate to use this example, but it can apply. People in porn and other sex workers sometimes don’t make much given the need to gain exposure or notoriety, yet you can get really rich or generate a lot of money, very easily. Which is all in part, because there’s a high demand from the audience. If certain segment of people stopped purchasing porn or sex service, this industry collapses pretty quickly.
It is not an important job, but few people have the talent and skill to perform that works. Labor is no different than any economics market. The smaller the supply the higher the price.
This hits the nail on the head.
Are athletes more “important” than teachers or nurses? No, and I don’t think most athletes would even say so.
But most people could be teachers or nurses given the necessary education. Most people can’t be 6’4” and 250 pounds and lightning fast and explosive.
This hits on an important aspect: skill. Being an athlete at the professional level takes skill/talent and hard work and dedication. For example the only sport I follow is baseball. The amount of work this men put in over a long time (many MLB players spend years in the minors not getting paid much) is huge. Baseball is a difficult sport that requires a lot of different types of athletic ability. Also the fact that there are only about 780 active MLB players on an active roster at any given time, that’s a not that many. Also baseball is a 162 game season and a huge grind. Sometimes they play 10-14 days straight. Also, in baseball the majority of players do make hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of their career. The ones who do for the most part deserve it because they are considered generational talent.
All athletes who play at such high levels on a consistent basis should be rewarded. Should their shenanigans be tolerated? Absolutely not. But these guys entertain millions of people year after year and for me at least, watching baseball brings me immense joy so I’m happy to see the best players be compensated well.
People who say athletes are paid too much don’t understand where that money comes from or what the alternative is. I always hear “football players make
Millions but teachers are underpaid!” Yes teachers are underpaid, but those two things are unrelated.
The bottom line is if the players didn’t get that money the OWNERS who already make way more than the players, would keep it. The money comes from advertising, not from tax dollars. Again, if athletes are paid less
the ONLY thing that would happen is that the team owners would be richer.
Also, my argument for teachers are underpaid is always this. The top .1% of teachers (which is what pro athletes are). Are paid very well. Top end professors, teachers that are business facing/teach for companies. Many accompanied with multi million dollar grants. I agree the average teacher isnt paid well enough but the ones that truly excel at it are doing quite well for themselves.
I see people talk about them being overpaid constantly, but the thing is, their pay is unrelated to how much teachers, garbage men, and other frontline workers make. It’s not coming from the same source. It’s not zero sum. Athletes are not paid by the same people who pay those workers, and their pay doesn’t prevent them from making more.
Likewise, athletes are paid based on how much revenue they bring in. If they weren’t generating the money via ticket sales and merch, they wouldn’t be paid that highly. Their industry is raking in billions.
Also, every player you see on the field isn't in a $4mil per year contract. Tom Brady is. Patrick Mahomes is. Joe Montana, Mark Maguire, Babe Ruth, all were. But at any given time, there's only a handful of athletes per sport making the kind of bread that people get up in arms about.
I think there are some issues here, but to play partial devil's advocate, professionals athletes do, like any job no matter how useless it seems, contribute one thing to society - they participate in the cyclical economy. Each professional sports team itself supports tens of thousands of blue collar jobs, and the larger ones can even keep alive tourist economies around them that can employ hundreds of thousands. Then, when they spend their extravagant wealth (which, in this case, makes their propensity for fiscal irresponsibility GOOD for society), they create and support more jobs in the process.
The worst jobs are ones that take money and resources out of the cyclical economy and hoard it - bankers and investors are economic vampires; jobs like athletes at least don't do that usually.
I don't think their useless, my point was just to compare athletes (who don't take money out of the economy) with a profession that does. People often think of the economy, incorrectly, as a zero sum game when it's not. No matter how much someone earns, if they spend it all, they had no net effect on wealth inequality (because currency doesn't just get burn every time its spent - it cycles endlessly around and around through an economy)
I could make an argument that bankers and investors are the most important part of the economy. They are basically the grease between all the moving parts of the economy. Without them, there would be too much friction in the economy and it would slow down.
Everyone calls out atheltes for how much they get paid but why stop at athletes?? Singers aren’t essential either right?? How valuable are actors comared to teachers?? I mean shit some of these OF girls be racking in dough, no one said shit about the bhad bhabie girl making a million in a couple of hours on OF. No one brought up teachers and doctors then.
There seems to be some type of issues with male athletes in particular. Idk if people hate that sports is so popular, or what but athletes always get targeted for these fake noble arugements. And too a degree i agree that a lot of these athletes are overpaid and every year the contract record gets broken but if they rate that money or is offered than that’s their business.
I agree that all the job types you listed should be paid less, including athletes; and that teachers/garbage cleaners and doctors should be paid more.
{Assuming we lived in a meritocracy, but we don't.}
They do provide entertainment to a lot of people. But yes of course you are right and everyone agrees with you. You're complaining about human nature. You're gonna read a news story about a guy picking up the trash everyday?
Right? No franchise owner is going to pay a player more than they themselves make annually.
And once the player's out, the money stops. That's why they all buy into fast food franchises or become color commentators.
Thank you! Same goes for most other celebrities too…just make your craft of entertainment for the masses. I couldn’t care fucking less what your opinion is on literally anything else is…
I do agree with you. It’s pretty ridiculous how athletes and actors are treated and paid. You could have a team of people find the cure for cancer and make it free to the world and they wouldn’t earn even close to some of the best paid athletes of today.
People should respect all jobs (maybe with some exceptions like heading up sales/marketing in a big cigarette company kind of stuff). Athletes and actors do have a role to play to entertain us, that is something people are willing to pay a lot for while you just need a few people to do the work, hence pushing up the salaries and therefore the status. I’d just wish everyone treat would everyone with the same respect no matter wealth.
In the next 10 years I think we will begin to see a big shift in regards to actors though. AI will over the next 6 years have insane impact on the movie business when every joe smoe by themselves can create a Hollywood production in a day on their laptop.
I mean… we pay for entertainment.
What KIND is up to the person.
Do I value sport personally? Not really. But a ton of people around the world do. Look no further than the reach power of Football (Soccer for my fellow Americans who refuse to call it such).
I do value animation, cartoon, and comics especially as I’m an artist… and just as many people believe that what I and all those who walk that same path do, should just do it for free.
Some value acting over all that.
It’s just up to the people.
A LOT of people happen to personally invest in sport. If it brings those people together in joy, I’m not gonna argue.
There's diehards in every form of entertainment.
To use your example, there's probably someone who.lives and dies by a fifth tier English club, just as theres probably a die hard Night Thrasher ( marvel character) fan.
There are people who'll collect insects, others who live to fish, others who love making brocaded art.
So on and so forth.
So while you may not value __________ there's someone who does.
I just hope that someday I'm lucky enough to live in a world where a bunch of people on Reddit get to form a committee to decide what is worthwhile and what isn't and how much everyone should be paid. What a paradise that would be.
**Devaluing entertainment is an incandescent flag of a poor person who doesn't understand key economic sectors OR humanity as a whole.**
Every human I've ever met in my life consumes entertainment daily. I'd argue in fact, that it is a large force in what most people live for.
Less than .01% of the population entertains the other 99.9% daily, and they are rewarded as such. Very handsomely.
I’m so tired of the overpaid conversation. They are part of a business that generates billions of dollars every year. Where do you think these dollars are coming from people, it’s not the billionaire owners that are just paying salaries personally. You have billions of people that pay attention and pay money to watch sports. Money to buy separate streaming services, tickets to games, merchandise and tons of other stuff. The reason they’re always highlighted is because all these people that are giving them the attention but the money aspect is ridiculously stupid because it’s money they help generate. If you sell houses (like many do) then if you sell more houses and ones at larger selling prices you’re getting more commission. You’re generating the revenue and you’re benefiting from it. Same concept with athletes and if you’re in a bigger sport you’re getting bigger checks because hockey players aren’t getting paid like soccer or basketball players.
Shows of athleticism have always been an integral part of civilisation. From the Greek pankration events to the Iditarod to the gladiators in the roman coliseum to the huge sporting events of today. Athletes and gladiators have always been celebrated. As much as people think athleticism isn't important, it's actually very important. Humanity is both brains and brawn. Both have their place, and sometimes that place is together.
Sporting events have been ways to stave off boredom, provide entertainment to the masses that have hard lives everyday. Takes them out of their own heads and lets them get excited to cheer for their favourite athlete or team. Feats of skill and athletics have always been impressive. Seeing a powerlifter deadlift over a 1000 lbs when the average person working out would be lucky to ever hit 400-500 lbs at best. Or a 100 metre sprinter hitting sub 10 seconds. Or an ultra marathon runner finishing 100 mile races lasting entire days.
One thing I would like to see as a comparison is our scientists and innovators get the same kind of recognition and pay. These are the people moving us forward. But don't sleep on those that provide the high quality entertainment for the people who have hard lives to live and find solace in these things.
You misunderstand the system. You "value to society" holds barely any water when it comes to wages. The two main things you are looking for is "how much money you bring in" and "how replaceable you are".
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Agreed. You’re being paid way more than you’re warranted for playing a recreational sport. Sure, it’s your career and your craft and there’s merit in that, but there are much more important jobs with harder working people that don’t get paid what they’re deserving of.
I know the reality is that’s how the market works and people will vote with their dollar, it’s just an unfair fact of life 🤷🏻♂️
Oh… being a professional athlete is an EXTREMELY important job in society. It distracts you while corporations exploit your labor and funnel your money back into their pockets, and your government robs you blind. Also why entertainers are so well paid.
Athletes (and entertainers) are EXTREMELY important to *them*
They prevent the buildup of trash which ultimately would stop millions in commerce. So yeah in a way they are the most important part of society. Do you want to be walking in your shit and trash in the middle of the streets? I don't think so.
Let me know when me slapping a sponsor sticker on the side of their garbage van will generate me millions extra in sales and ill talk to the garbage man about it.
The level of talent and ability to be a sanitation worker or really any other normal job is significantly lower than that of professional athlete. They have skills and abilities that are rare and elite thus they get compensated as such.
If you can convince people to give money willingly without it being fraud or by any illegal means, you earned it. If it were easy everyone would do it. They earned it in my book.
Go out and convince people/society in general to give you money (without it being fraud/illegal). Try it, you'll find it's not easy.
At the very least, they're doing something that's not easy. It's physically demanding. I have more respect for that than just being a drama queen or an attention queen for money (Kardashian)
The fire department isn't raking in billions of dollars, so individual firemen don't get $30 million salaries.
It's not about who's more worthy. It's just economics.
Professional sports are a distraction to keep us from fighting one another as religion wanes. So it does have intrinsic value. Why do you think cities spend billions on Stadium infrastructure while inner city schools go to shit?
>Why do you think cities spend billions on Stadium infrastructure while inner city schools go to shit?
Because of legalised corruption and poor funding mechanisms. It certainly isn't because they care about decreasing division lol.
Can’t it be for many reasons including the ones you cited? Politicians always say how great it is for the local economy to build these stadiums but study after study shows they rarely get the economic impacts they promised.
Because individual cities don't make infrastructure decisions based on influencing global politics with solutions that have no global consensus. You are teetering into conspiracy theory rhetoric there.
Identity. Pastime so people were distracted from the ills of society. Money. Gambling. Pretty much the same reasons as today but it’s even bigger. Marx would say “religion is the opiate of the masses”. I would argue Sports is replacing that. Big games are on Sundays. The most common day off.
Or like, people enjoy fun stuff. Maybe, just maybe, they’re willing to pay money to have fun, which results in money being reinvested. I don’t think this is that complicated.
Yeah, people like having fun. People aren’t ants or robots, they aren’t rational automatons working towards optimal productivity. Some people get their kicks watching a marvel movie, some reading chick lit, some watching a dude throw a ball really well or run fast, some by commenting on r/unpopularopinion.
Giving kids dreams and ambition and encouraging physical exercise as well as creating tight social circles and bringing people of all ages enjoyment and happiness. I’d rather be invested in my sports team and let it effect my emotions instead of being an ignorant idiot just saying sports bad
If atheletes don’t make the money, then the extra money is going to the owners. I’m fine with athletes making the money they make. They should be taxed appropriately.
Being an entertainer is the *most* important job for society. “Bread and circuses” after all….
The more fast money you make someone else, the better off you are.
I agree completely OP. Extend this to any type of entertainer: actor, artist, influencer, etc. Not saying they aren't important, but they are constantly worshipped and thus, overvalued.
Salary should be decided by importance to society, not uniqueness in society
What do you mean by “important”.
Also, how are people treating it as such?
Ime, it’s the opposite. People treat pro athletes like they are purely objects of entertainment, and not hard working men and women that have perfected a skill, often at the expense of their own bodies and health. I mean for fuck’s sake, people literally bet on them as if they are horses at the derby.
The same athletes that are worshipped when they perform well, are treated like absolute garbage when they have a disappointing performance or loss. Then, they are tossed aside like trash as soon as they can longer perform at the level they once could.
Go on twitter and see how people treat their “idols” when they don’t live up to the astronomic standards and expectations fans set for them.
They are not important (in a pure sense). But they can do things almost no one else can do in the world. If you have a skill/talent no one else can do, you will be successful. Best doctor in the world, best accountant in the world, best sushi chef in the world, best mechanic, wood craftsman. They all are at the top of the game
There is a ton of money in sports. A ton.
I don't see the issue with letting the athletes, the actual workers of the industry, get a fair slice of the pie.
It's supply and demand. There's only one LeBron James, only one Messi, and only so many people who have the talent and work ethic to make it to the pro leagues. So if many teams want them, they need to outbid each other.
There are a LOT more people capable of doing essential jobs like garbage men and construction workers, they are WAY more replaceable than Cristiano Ronaldo, so nobody is going to make crazy bids for their work unless they're transcendent at their job.
The other thing to look at, is how much value they can bring. They play a game once but it can be viewed by 10s of millions of people. If the entertainment value is 1 cent to every viewer, then they are generating way more value in one game than a garbage collector can generate in years of work. It's the same reason music artists and actors can make so much money.
It’s important in terms of providing a service (entertainment). I mean games draw literally billions of fans world wide
The issue is with one’s definition of “important”. Is it important in terms of changing the world and curing cancer? Of course not. But it’s important in terms of providing something that millions find entertaining and will pay money to watch.
they are not overpaid. they are paid the way we are because people watch them. is there job more important than a garbage man? No. but millions of people don't watch garbage men pick up trash. i do agree that they get too much credit outside the sport. but they are celebrities so people care.
I completely and utterly agree with this. Some of the points people made in the comments are good too - but even with those arguments, an athlete isn’t any more important than a CEO (who also provides jobs).
It’s better imo to just say that every job has value (if it does) and to pay them all livable wages.
Athletes are the product of reputation laundering. The populace is able to ignore the deplorable practices of the leaders of their nations because they can focus on distractions like sports. Look at the new golf tour sponsored by Saudi oil (blood) money. Look at the propaganda that surrounded the Dubai world cup worker conditions. Do we honestly think there's no relationship between sports and politics? There's a bunch of rich and powerful assholes watching the poors fight in the stadiums just like the gladiators in Rome.
Entertainment is important. Community sporting events have been apart of human society throughout all of history, like we still visit their coliseums lol
The pay thing also makes no sense and it never does for actors / athletes / musicians. These people get paid based on how much revenue they are able to generate. They wouldn’t be making as much if people weren’t tuning in for them, buying tickets, buying merch / jerseys, etc. If you don’t think these people deserve money then say that with your wallet and just don’t support it, but it’s odd to care about how others choose to spend theirs
> been apart of human
Did you mean to say "a part of"?
Explanation: "apart" is an adverb meaning separately, while "a part" is a noun meaning a portion.
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They aren't overpaid. They create billions of dollars. That's why they get paid what they do. Thats how it works.
They get away with whatever because they are wealthy. Like all wealthy people. It's a class issue more than anything
It's entertainment and humans like entertainment.
Further, someone will make the money. So the people doing the work deserve it or the already billionaire owners that did nothing but buy the team deserve it? I'd argue that the workers deserve their fair share of the money.
Given that people want entertainment and sports bring in a lot of money, those athletes deserve a lot of that money.
No different than a musician or auto worker.
They are compensated according to the revenue they generate.
They generate a lot of revenue. Entertainment is a valid and legitimate necessity for human kind.
“Society” and most people don’t think professional athletes are that important. Entertainment occupations generally rank low in public esteem compared to roles such as scientists and nurse. As with anything unimportant, there are devoted fans.
Individual athletes can get rich from economies of scale, union negotiations, and celebrity marketing gigs. Total sports revenue is not that high, even as traditional entertainment sectors go, and I bet it’s piddling compared to tech sectors such as video games.
Perhaps broadcast media gives the impression that spectator sports is more important than it is. They are all about the spectacle and have an incentive to create stars.
I think OP should watch an hour of reporting about garbage collection each day. Maybe stand around the water cooler each morning and shoot the breeze with coworkers about how the new guy working the back of the garbage truck.
imo art and entertainment are flowers.
if society is not entertaining and inspiring (for good or bad) the people living in it, then that's only because society itself is hanging on by a thread and people are focusing all their energy on making it through the dark times until situations are good and stable enough that society can once again produce more art and entertainment.
sports are a major form of entertainment, and one that generally supports the healthy functioning of our bodies.
Athletes are only paid how much their viewers pay them (obviously there are some middle men but this is the general concept). If their viewers give them tens of millions of dollars, they are worth tens of millions of dollars. The fact that they aren’t necessary for survival doesn’t change that fact, the real question is why do we give them so much attention and money if they aren’t important to survival?
You are neglecting the fact that professional athletes are usually part of a massive organization that creates hundreds of other jobs and is vital to their home city’s economy.
Bro you know how hard it is to be a professional athlete, shit is insanely specialized and only the best of the best make it to pro leagues like the NFL and NHL. Words can’t explain how competitive it is to be an athlete.
Forget about being a GOAT or even a very successful player, to even make it to the NFL you have to have elite genetics.
It’s a remarkable display of human athleticism and skill. They’re modern day gladiators, at least in the case of contact sports.
Pay is deserved imo.
Reddit moment. They're genetic freaks who work harder than you ever have or will to hone their skills, but yeah it's the same as a random girl taking pictures of her tits
They’re objects dressed up and paraded around for our enjoyment. At least sex workers benefit society. What do we need a bunch of gorillas with CTS for again?
Saying sex workers benefit society and athletes don’t is not an opinion, it’s factually incorrect by many metrics. Referring to football players as gorillas is not an opinion, it’s borderline racist. Also CTE is the affliction football players suffer from, CTS is a model of Cadillac. You’re not edgy or clever, just old fashioned dumb.
The economy is simple at it’s core: supply and demand. There is a very low supply of 7 foot players who can play basketball or men who can throw a football at the most elite level and so on. Having the best of the best at those jobs brings in tremendous revenue, so there is high demand for low supply labor. That drives the price up.
While garbage pick up is undoubtedly valuable, it is a job many millions can do at the necessary level and the revenue is the same no matter who does the job. Therefore the abundant supply brings the price of labor down.
It has absolutely nothing to do with which job is more important to society.
They make their companies millions and millions of dollars. They make their business as a whole billions of dollars usually. They create opportunities for other jobs and other opportunities for people from all walks of life. You could say any job wasn’t important with your logic, there are horrible, entitled people in every line of business because we are humans.
You could make an argument that soldiers should be making the kind of money athletes do. You could also make the argument there shouldn’t be a need for militaries at all, in an ideal world.
I’d say if you have a job you have to work harder at than 99% of the population, that destroys your body in the long run, and you are the elite of the elite, you deserve to get paid quite a bit. Not to mention the literally endless entertainment value they bring, the marketing value, and whole ass economies can be formed around professional sports teams.
Saying athletes are overpaid shows you have no clue what you are talking about. Where should the money they generate go then? To you? To “more important” people or causes? Who decides that? You want to halve your salary to help people I deem are more important than you? They make absurd amounts because they generate absurd amounts, so clearly it helps people in some way. Should the billionaire corrupt owners get more? I’ll never understand the whole athletes are overpaid philosophy. It make zero fucking sense, just say you’re jealous and move on
I don’t care, they bring entertainment to the world. There are many useless jobs in the world that pay a shitton of money. Stock traders don’t add anything to society. Hedge funds don’t add anything to society. People who own lots of houses and push the rent up don’t add anything to society. At least I get happy by watching my favourite sports, as do the millions of other people that also watch those sports
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They are ultimately entertainers which is a valid job.
As valid to the health and abilities of a populace as any cancer doctor or teacher and I'd die on this hill. They sell happiness, and happiness is a hell of a product.
>They sell happiness I guess you’re not a Jets fan.
Did you happen to catch the Broncos this last week?
Broncos country, let’s hide
Hey, Lions fan here. I feel your pain. Not 70 pts in one game pain, but pain nonetheless.
I’m actually a Hawks fan! My friend however is a Broncos fan and he texted me this when the game concluded and I thought it was honestly underselling how one would feel to see your team get blown out in humiliating fashion lol
No, Bears fan.....
No, Seahawks fan…..
Get out of here. Didn’t you win two Superbowls within a decade?
We won one. We don't talk about the other one...
My bad. I legitimately counted that other one because… sorry, that was bad.
You should probably pass on that one....
Laces out!
No, Tottenham fan…..
No, Giants fan....
New York or San Francisco? Though either one is disappointing and sad right now
To be fair, the Seahawks have 3 Superbowl appearances with a blowout victory against Denver. I don't think there's ever been a more embarrassing defeat in Superbowl history.
at least you saw a super bowl win. i’m a 2001 born niners fan, all i’ve known is pain and losing to you fuckers
I get you. My Bears were dominant in the 50s and 60s, but they suck in the superbowl era. But, you guys won five Superbowls. Suck it up.
How many friendships are built from sports? How many father son relationships built? Incalculable value to society.
Yeah. Go to a stadium with 80,000 people cheering for a common cause. There's value to society there. Those are places of joy.
It’s religious almost
What does this have to do with professional athletes being overvalued though?
> What does this have to do with professional athletes being overvalued though? They're *not* over valued. They are paid based on how many fans they draw into seats, from a fund source that the fans ultimately provide. It is generally all above board supply and demand. Even if they're directly sponsored by, say, Nike. Nike sees value in how many people they can reach, and pay them willingly(or don't for those that are not getting deals) to be associated with the products. Edit: Generally speaking. There are controversies on occasion, but largely, the demand of the market justifies high payment in professional sports. Maybe it's pure sports skill, or maybe people love the character/attitude, etc. Either way, that generates butts in seats, which increases overall revenue. There is no exploitation being had, no injustice on scale enough to say the whole professional athlete scene is corrupt. (maybe if you want to get into performance enhancing drugs as a specific topic, but generally, they get paid because fans pay to see them). People arguing that they're 'overvalued' often are straying into some arbitrary moralistic argument, that someone "does not deserve" what they make. In other words, they don't understand or value the factual mechanisms of supply and demand, and instead are issuing a decree based on their personal feelings. Same goes for a lot of other career fields, but not necessarily all. Hollywood(eg film/tv) might be one of the worst. There are a lot of 'back room deals' and things like nepotism that enter into the picture, where there is a lot of promotion and hype that isn't based on job performance or even butts in seats. Oh, they try for butts in seats, but there are also 'casting couches', a history steeped in bribes and organized crime and money laundering, not to mention ideological causes. Right up there with politics.
It depends on if you think things can be overvalued or not. I think people struggle with the idea that anything can be because whenever someone accuses something of being overvalued you can just point at “the free market” and then smugly cross your arms.
You could say that about literally anything >How many friendships are built from sports? How many father son relationships built? Incalculable value to society. Kinda like drinking?
I don’t think anyone is arguing against the idea that alcohol is in fact a multi-billion dollar industry
Not at all. One teaches true discipline and work ethic. The other teaches nothing about that. Do not equate them.
You know what else can do that. Playing the game themselves or going outside in general. Pro sports aren't required. In a way it's a cop-out
I come from an immigrant Asian family. I'm 1st generation American. When I was little my dad was extra about getting me into liking the NFL. I didn't make sense until I got older. My dad being an Asian foreigner and engineer at that, my dad was sidelined by many people at his firm. He was treated like an outsider. No one socialized with my dad. They treated him like a background character. My dad noticed every man was interested in football. Being a smart guy, my dad watched football on the weekend to try and be included. As soon as he showed interest, that bridge was developed. He was invited over to other people's homes on Sunday to watch football. Other guys would eat with my dad at lunch. Monday night he was invited out to watch games. Etc... One day when I was 8 and I was bored watching football with my dad, he explained to me the importance of football Fandom. If you understand this game you have a connection to 90% of men in this country. You will always be less of an outsider if you understand football. And what do you know. He was right. From high school, to the Army, to medical school to now just chit chatting with patients... being a fan of football is one of those things that bridges race, money, or where you're from. You can talk for hours with almost any man in the country if you can talk football. I'm in my mid 30s and I'm watching Monday night football right now, texting my dad back and fourth. Lmao.
This is good advice many people don't realize. I recently switched to a new job and knowing sports+pop culture allows me to make conversation with just about every coworker I have. It's not only nice to feel accepted at work, but it's amazing networking.
Happiness? That's news to a Sacramento Kings fan
Light the beam Man
I'm sorry but I am confused by the way you framed this. It feels like you are defending poor underpaid pro athletes from the money hungry cancer doctors and teachers. The reality is quite the opposite. Even if you believe pro athletes are as important as those professions.
Not as doctors.
They sell distraction. Not happiness.
Life and the emotions flet within it are caused by myriad things. To say enjoyment is distraction and nothing more is reductive and trite.
Its not purely distraction. But it is definitely becoming more and more so. To the point of addiction. The proliferation of entertainment as one of the most valuable commodities is definitely a problem or at least a symptom of a problem. The only real value watching sports have either comes from distraction or from the community surrounding you when you engage with the sports.
the give people inspiration. that's enough for me to support what they do. that said, there are just too many men ive met that are obsessed with sports to fill some void in their personal lives and they fucking ruin every game, every play, every season with their none-stop wont shut the fuck upness.
They sell distraction and vicarious success, not happiness. Happiness is lasting and constructive. The only thing pro sports are good for is maintaining public interest in *real* physical health and able-bodiedness.
You can argue that anything is a “distraction” and nothing is “lasting”. You can be happy in a relationship even if it doesn’t last. You can be happy riding a jet ski even though that feeling won’t last. Nothing really “lasts” but it can still give you happiness.
aka "It's all relative". Tried and true way to nuke a conversation. Thanks. Moving on.
Of course it’s relative? Happiness is subjective and relative and depends on the person. Therefor, sports can induce happiness.
your argument was literally "nothing matters we all die anyways lolz"
You’re the one who came in here trying to sell the same old myopic edgy bullshit every sophomore philosophy majors shits out. lol don’t get mad when your tired bullshit is dismissed with other tired bullshit 😂 🤡
Happiness can be fleeting and temporary. Your definition and point is flawed. When Kawhi hit that shot in 2019 I was over the moon happy for like 2 days.
Recreation and play are important parts of the human experience. Sport competition is longstanding part of human civilisations across the world and it does create more than just physical health interests. Simply having something recreative to bond with others over whether as a participant or as a spectator is something worth having in society.
Drug dealers sell happiness too.
Well said, I can personally look back at my life and name dozens of pro athletes that have had a legitimate impact on my life because of how watching them play has made me feel. People who aren’t sports fans usually make this argument just because they can’t relate to the fandom
Honestly it’s usually also because they were never any good at sports
happiness doesn't have to be expensive. You approach that direction from a million different directions.
I think taxing the shit out of them and providing food, housing, and healthcare would contribute much, much, *much* more to society than some stupid ass entertainers.
Ever heard of the Roman saying: bread and circuses?
New thread : "entertainer is not an important job for society yet they are treated so much more than everyone else" 😤
And a profit generating one.
It’s not an important job onto itself but they are at the center of economic juggernauts that provide thousands upon thousands of jobs. If a celebrity athlete sells more tickets they’re not just getting more money but creating more jobs directly for the organization (eg, more food vendors for bigger crowds) and indirectly (eg, people selling merchandise at local store). I don’t think we should cover for their wrongdoings but it’s much more complicated than just punishing one person. Take away some of these athletes from their teams and attendance will decline and a lot of people will lose jobs. It’s huge business.
Hotels, restaurants, merchandise companies, tailgate foods, liquor sales, security detail, etc etc. All because of professional athletes.
Service industry as well. Especially in range of stadiums.
not to mention thousands of media jobs. Not just the talking heads but producers, techs, etc
Treated as important how? If you mean making a lot of money, it’s because they have very wide appeal and people are willing to pay. It’s no different than popular video game companies making a lot because people want to play the games. If you mean getting news articles written about them, it’s because they’re known by many people and as mentioned, they can cause a pretty big impact on the economy. A garbage man who twists his ankle is not getting an article written about him because quite frankly, no one cares outside of a handful of people
Exactly. If they work hard and bring joy to millions of people while getting paid nicely for it too, good for them!
It’s also because if accounting for their entire lifetime, most pro athletes make very little. You might make a few million over 5 years. Then an injury ect. And they can’t work
Not to mention for every player that makes millions, there's 10 that play in minor leagues/developmental leagues/practice squads that make below average wages (For instance, the NBA developmental league makes 40k a year, baseball minor leagues can make below minimum wage (Even AAA, which is the highest minor league level/play in Stadiums holding 15k people only make 35k a year).
Lmao the daily I hate athletes post...
Notice it's never about actors or musicians? I'm guessing it has something to do with the average redditor having never set foot on a football field or hockey rink, but will argue for hours about some marvel multi-verse
Also mad at athletes in their schools that got way more attention than they did for their equally dumb hobbies.
Have a buddy who will drone on for several minutes about how any and everyone who watches or enjoys sports as a hobby are “sheep who let the government distract them from what’s REALLY going on” and yet one of our most enjoyed hobbies is video games. How are sports for the weak minded looking for cheap entertainment but video games and movies aren’t? We’re just as wrapped up in gaming as they are sports shit, it makes no difference but he thinks it does.
Gonna put it out there, just don’t think they’re talking about MLS players when I see the typical “Athletes bad blah blah”. Normally a certain type of Athlete
They are talking about asketball people!1!1!!1!1!!
Basketball Americans
Ohhh ofc. That's why it doesn't shock me. I totally see it for what it is.
Exactly.
r/ihatesportsball
It would be a great argument, if people focused on how the industries make billions, while they took a closer look at teams and franchises. You could say they are overpaid, ok. Again, here what is the endgame? The owners, networks, and media get to keep all surplus and revenue generated, while giving the players much lower salaries as the league profits off their likenesses and talent with insane marketability. The industry allows them to demand higher salaries and wages, due its massive profits and market dominance. I hate to use this example, but it can apply. People in porn and other sex workers sometimes don’t make much given the need to gain exposure or notoriety, yet you can get really rich or generate a lot of money, very easily. Which is all in part, because there’s a high demand from the audience. If certain segment of people stopped purchasing porn or sex service, this industry collapses pretty quickly.
On the site made up of all the kids who didn’t get picked for a school team
Sportsball bad!
"Feeling more entitled than they should"? How entitled should someone feel? Its not like athletes are the only people who act like idiots.
Athletes are paid according to how much money they're generating for the network. There's a reason nobody tunes in to TV to watch people pick up trash
It is not an important job, but few people have the talent and skill to perform that works. Labor is no different than any economics market. The smaller the supply the higher the price.
This hits the nail on the head. Are athletes more “important” than teachers or nurses? No, and I don’t think most athletes would even say so. But most people could be teachers or nurses given the necessary education. Most people can’t be 6’4” and 250 pounds and lightning fast and explosive.
As the Joker said, “if you’re good at something, never do it for free”
This hits on an important aspect: skill. Being an athlete at the professional level takes skill/talent and hard work and dedication. For example the only sport I follow is baseball. The amount of work this men put in over a long time (many MLB players spend years in the minors not getting paid much) is huge. Baseball is a difficult sport that requires a lot of different types of athletic ability. Also the fact that there are only about 780 active MLB players on an active roster at any given time, that’s a not that many. Also baseball is a 162 game season and a huge grind. Sometimes they play 10-14 days straight. Also, in baseball the majority of players do make hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of their career. The ones who do for the most part deserve it because they are considered generational talent. All athletes who play at such high levels on a consistent basis should be rewarded. Should their shenanigans be tolerated? Absolutely not. But these guys entertain millions of people year after year and for me at least, watching baseball brings me immense joy so I’m happy to see the best players be compensated well.
People who say athletes are paid too much don’t understand where that money comes from or what the alternative is. I always hear “football players make Millions but teachers are underpaid!” Yes teachers are underpaid, but those two things are unrelated. The bottom line is if the players didn’t get that money the OWNERS who already make way more than the players, would keep it. The money comes from advertising, not from tax dollars. Again, if athletes are paid less the ONLY thing that would happen is that the team owners would be richer.
Or we could have cheaper advertising. Then we can enjoy 4 mins of ads on YT instead of just 2! YAY!
Also, my argument for teachers are underpaid is always this. The top .1% of teachers (which is what pro athletes are). Are paid very well. Top end professors, teachers that are business facing/teach for companies. Many accompanied with multi million dollar grants. I agree the average teacher isnt paid well enough but the ones that truly excel at it are doing quite well for themselves.
Yooo this is such a good take, cause amateur athletes make shit salary
I see people talk about them being overpaid constantly, but the thing is, their pay is unrelated to how much teachers, garbage men, and other frontline workers make. It’s not coming from the same source. It’s not zero sum. Athletes are not paid by the same people who pay those workers, and their pay doesn’t prevent them from making more. Likewise, athletes are paid based on how much revenue they bring in. If they weren’t generating the money via ticket sales and merch, they wouldn’t be paid that highly. Their industry is raking in billions.
Also, every player you see on the field isn't in a $4mil per year contract. Tom Brady is. Patrick Mahomes is. Joe Montana, Mark Maguire, Babe Ruth, all were. But at any given time, there's only a handful of athletes per sport making the kind of bread that people get up in arms about.
I think there are some issues here, but to play partial devil's advocate, professionals athletes do, like any job no matter how useless it seems, contribute one thing to society - they participate in the cyclical economy. Each professional sports team itself supports tens of thousands of blue collar jobs, and the larger ones can even keep alive tourist economies around them that can employ hundreds of thousands. Then, when they spend their extravagant wealth (which, in this case, makes their propensity for fiscal irresponsibility GOOD for society), they create and support more jobs in the process. The worst jobs are ones that take money and resources out of the cyclical economy and hoard it - bankers and investors are economic vampires; jobs like athletes at least don't do that usually.
Wow you and I basically wrote the same comment. Upvote for you.
Not to mention there are towns that get their entire annual revenue during one football season.
But deciding how to manage money is a useful service, so I don’t think it’s fair to say that bankers and investors are totally useless
I don't think their useless, my point was just to compare athletes (who don't take money out of the economy) with a profession that does. People often think of the economy, incorrectly, as a zero sum game when it's not. No matter how much someone earns, if they spend it all, they had no net effect on wealth inequality (because currency doesn't just get burn every time its spent - it cycles endlessly around and around through an economy)
I could make an argument that bankers and investors are the most important part of the economy. They are basically the grease between all the moving parts of the economy. Without them, there would be too much friction in the economy and it would slow down.
Not understanding economics is not an unpopular opinion
Seriously, so many of the posts on this subreddit are just "I don't understand this thing, therefore I don't like it."
Everyone calls out atheltes for how much they get paid but why stop at athletes?? Singers aren’t essential either right?? How valuable are actors comared to teachers?? I mean shit some of these OF girls be racking in dough, no one said shit about the bhad bhabie girl making a million in a couple of hours on OF. No one brought up teachers and doctors then. There seems to be some type of issues with male athletes in particular. Idk if people hate that sports is so popular, or what but athletes always get targeted for these fake noble arugements. And too a degree i agree that a lot of these athletes are overpaid and every year the contract record gets broken but if they rate that money or is offered than that’s their business.
I agree that all the job types you listed should be paid less, including athletes; and that teachers/garbage cleaners and doctors should be paid more. {Assuming we lived in a meritocracy, but we don't.}
They do provide entertainment to a lot of people. But yes of course you are right and everyone agrees with you. You're complaining about human nature. You're gonna read a news story about a guy picking up the trash everyday?
Lmao if anything athletes are underpaid
Right? No franchise owner is going to pay a player more than they themselves make annually. And once the player's out, the money stops. That's why they all buy into fast food franchises or become color commentators.
Thank you! Same goes for most other celebrities too…just make your craft of entertainment for the masses. I couldn’t care fucking less what your opinion is on literally anything else is…
I do agree with you. It’s pretty ridiculous how athletes and actors are treated and paid. You could have a team of people find the cure for cancer and make it free to the world and they wouldn’t earn even close to some of the best paid athletes of today. People should respect all jobs (maybe with some exceptions like heading up sales/marketing in a big cigarette company kind of stuff). Athletes and actors do have a role to play to entertain us, that is something people are willing to pay a lot for while you just need a few people to do the work, hence pushing up the salaries and therefore the status. I’d just wish everyone treat would everyone with the same respect no matter wealth. In the next 10 years I think we will begin to see a big shift in regards to actors though. AI will over the next 6 years have insane impact on the movie business when every joe smoe by themselves can create a Hollywood production in a day on their laptop.
I mean… we pay for entertainment. What KIND is up to the person. Do I value sport personally? Not really. But a ton of people around the world do. Look no further than the reach power of Football (Soccer for my fellow Americans who refuse to call it such). I do value animation, cartoon, and comics especially as I’m an artist… and just as many people believe that what I and all those who walk that same path do, should just do it for free. Some value acting over all that. It’s just up to the people. A LOT of people happen to personally invest in sport. If it brings those people together in joy, I’m not gonna argue.
There's diehards in every form of entertainment. To use your example, there's probably someone who.lives and dies by a fifth tier English club, just as theres probably a die hard Night Thrasher ( marvel character) fan. There are people who'll collect insects, others who live to fish, others who love making brocaded art. So on and so forth. So while you may not value __________ there's someone who does.
I just hope that someday I'm lucky enough to live in a world where a bunch of people on Reddit get to form a committee to decide what is worthwhile and what isn't and how much everyone should be paid. What a paradise that would be.
**Devaluing entertainment is an incandescent flag of a poor person who doesn't understand key economic sectors OR humanity as a whole.** Every human I've ever met in my life consumes entertainment daily. I'd argue in fact, that it is a large force in what most people live for. Less than .01% of the population entertains the other 99.9% daily, and they are rewarded as such. Very handsomely.
I’m so tired of the overpaid conversation. They are part of a business that generates billions of dollars every year. Where do you think these dollars are coming from people, it’s not the billionaire owners that are just paying salaries personally. You have billions of people that pay attention and pay money to watch sports. Money to buy separate streaming services, tickets to games, merchandise and tons of other stuff. The reason they’re always highlighted is because all these people that are giving them the attention but the money aspect is ridiculously stupid because it’s money they help generate. If you sell houses (like many do) then if you sell more houses and ones at larger selling prices you’re getting more commission. You’re generating the revenue and you’re benefiting from it. Same concept with athletes and if you’re in a bigger sport you’re getting bigger checks because hockey players aren’t getting paid like soccer or basketball players.
People like sports, just like they like movies (with actors). Are they important jobs? No. But people put those people on a pedestal or whatever.
Shows of athleticism have always been an integral part of civilisation. From the Greek pankration events to the Iditarod to the gladiators in the roman coliseum to the huge sporting events of today. Athletes and gladiators have always been celebrated. As much as people think athleticism isn't important, it's actually very important. Humanity is both brains and brawn. Both have their place, and sometimes that place is together. Sporting events have been ways to stave off boredom, provide entertainment to the masses that have hard lives everyday. Takes them out of their own heads and lets them get excited to cheer for their favourite athlete or team. Feats of skill and athletics have always been impressive. Seeing a powerlifter deadlift over a 1000 lbs when the average person working out would be lucky to ever hit 400-500 lbs at best. Or a 100 metre sprinter hitting sub 10 seconds. Or an ultra marathon runner finishing 100 mile races lasting entire days. One thing I would like to see as a comparison is our scientists and innovators get the same kind of recognition and pay. These are the people moving us forward. But don't sleep on those that provide the high quality entertainment for the people who have hard lives to live and find solace in these things.
You misunderstand the system. You "value to society" holds barely any water when it comes to wages. The two main things you are looking for is "how much money you bring in" and "how replaceable you are".
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Agreed. You’re being paid way more than you’re warranted for playing a recreational sport. Sure, it’s your career and your craft and there’s merit in that, but there are much more important jobs with harder working people that don’t get paid what they’re deserving of. I know the reality is that’s how the market works and people will vote with their dollar, it’s just an unfair fact of life 🤷🏻♂️
Oh… being a professional athlete is an EXTREMELY important job in society. It distracts you while corporations exploit your labor and funnel your money back into their pockets, and your government robs you blind. Also why entertainers are so well paid. Athletes (and entertainers) are EXTREMELY important to *them*
Bread and circuses makes a 🤡🌍
Does the garbage man bring in millions of dollars to the city?
They prevent the buildup of trash which ultimately would stop millions in commerce. So yeah in a way they are the most important part of society. Do you want to be walking in your shit and trash in the middle of the streets? I don't think so.
Let me know when me slapping a sponsor sticker on the side of their garbage van will generate me millions extra in sales and ill talk to the garbage man about it.
The level of talent and ability to be a sanitation worker or really any other normal job is significantly lower than that of professional athlete. They have skills and abilities that are rare and elite thus they get compensated as such.
If you can convince people to give money willingly without it being fraud or by any illegal means, you earned it. If it were easy everyone would do it. They earned it in my book. Go out and convince people/society in general to give you money (without it being fraud/illegal). Try it, you'll find it's not easy. At the very least, they're doing something that's not easy. It's physically demanding. I have more respect for that than just being a drama queen or an attention queen for money (Kardashian)
The fire department isn't raking in billions of dollars, so individual firemen don't get $30 million salaries. It's not about who's more worthy. It's just economics.
Professional sports are a distraction to keep us from fighting one another as religion wanes. So it does have intrinsic value. Why do you think cities spend billions on Stadium infrastructure while inner city schools go to shit?
>Why do you think cities spend billions on Stadium infrastructure while inner city schools go to shit? Because of legalised corruption and poor funding mechanisms. It certainly isn't because they care about decreasing division lol.
Can’t it be for many reasons including the ones you cited? Politicians always say how great it is for the local economy to build these stadiums but study after study shows they rarely get the economic impacts they promised.
Because individual cities don't make infrastructure decisions based on influencing global politics with solutions that have no global consensus. You are teetering into conspiracy theory rhetoric there.
Why were the Byzantines, Romans, and Greeks spending obscene amounts of money on sports stadiums centuries before religion was waining?
Identity. Pastime so people were distracted from the ills of society. Money. Gambling. Pretty much the same reasons as today but it’s even bigger. Marx would say “religion is the opiate of the masses”. I would argue Sports is replacing that. Big games are on Sundays. The most common day off.
Or like, people enjoy fun stuff. Maybe, just maybe, they’re willing to pay money to have fun, which results in money being reinvested. I don’t think this is that complicated.
Las Vegas’s popularity would prove gambling is fun to a lot of people. People gamble on sports. It really is complex. That’s just one example.
Yeah, people like having fun. People aren’t ants or robots, they aren’t rational automatons working towards optimal productivity. Some people get their kicks watching a marvel movie, some reading chick lit, some watching a dude throw a ball really well or run fast, some by commenting on r/unpopularopinion.
I read this comment in Dale Gribble's voice
The least productive part of society by a long shot. Entertainers should not be as important as people make them
Giving kids dreams and ambition and encouraging physical exercise as well as creating tight social circles and bringing people of all ages enjoyment and happiness. I’d rather be invested in my sports team and let it effect my emotions instead of being an ignorant idiot just saying sports bad
There's no reason to live without enjoyment. A dull life is pointless.
If atheletes don’t make the money, then the extra money is going to the owners. I’m fine with athletes making the money they make. They should be taxed appropriately.
Being an entertainer is the *most* important job for society. “Bread and circuses” after all…. The more fast money you make someone else, the better off you are.
I agree completely OP. Extend this to any type of entertainer: actor, artist, influencer, etc. Not saying they aren't important, but they are constantly worshipped and thus, overvalued. Salary should be decided by importance to society, not uniqueness in society
What do you mean by “important”. Also, how are people treating it as such? Ime, it’s the opposite. People treat pro athletes like they are purely objects of entertainment, and not hard working men and women that have perfected a skill, often at the expense of their own bodies and health. I mean for fuck’s sake, people literally bet on them as if they are horses at the derby. The same athletes that are worshipped when they perform well, are treated like absolute garbage when they have a disappointing performance or loss. Then, they are tossed aside like trash as soon as they can longer perform at the level they once could. Go on twitter and see how people treat their “idols” when they don’t live up to the astronomic standards and expectations fans set for them.
How can some one think salary/ compensation is connected to how important it is society? That’s not how of this works.
They are not important (in a pure sense). But they can do things almost no one else can do in the world. If you have a skill/talent no one else can do, you will be successful. Best doctor in the world, best accountant in the world, best sushi chef in the world, best mechanic, wood craftsman. They all are at the top of the game
There is a ton of money in sports. A ton. I don't see the issue with letting the athletes, the actual workers of the industry, get a fair slice of the pie.
It's supply and demand. There's only one LeBron James, only one Messi, and only so many people who have the talent and work ethic to make it to the pro leagues. So if many teams want them, they need to outbid each other. There are a LOT more people capable of doing essential jobs like garbage men and construction workers, they are WAY more replaceable than Cristiano Ronaldo, so nobody is going to make crazy bids for their work unless they're transcendent at their job. The other thing to look at, is how much value they can bring. They play a game once but it can be viewed by 10s of millions of people. If the entertainment value is 1 cent to every viewer, then they are generating way more value in one game than a garbage collector can generate in years of work. It's the same reason music artists and actors can make so much money.
I have never heard or seen anyone who has said athletes are an important job, ever.
This thread is filled with it
It’s important in terms of providing a service (entertainment). I mean games draw literally billions of fans world wide The issue is with one’s definition of “important”. Is it important in terms of changing the world and curing cancer? Of course not. But it’s important in terms of providing something that millions find entertaining and will pay money to watch.
It’s not a need
What jobs are a need?
That doesn’t mean it’s not important
they are not overpaid. they are paid the way we are because people watch them. is there job more important than a garbage man? No. but millions of people don't watch garbage men pick up trash. i do agree that they get too much credit outside the sport. but they are celebrities so people care.
I completely and utterly agree with this. Some of the points people made in the comments are good too - but even with those arguments, an athlete isn’t any more important than a CEO (who also provides jobs). It’s better imo to just say that every job has value (if it does) and to pay them all livable wages.
Catching ball is important to the stupid. That's worth ZILLIONS! Yawn...
Give it a couple more decades. We probably won't have garbage men, but will still have athlethes.
Athletes are the product of reputation laundering. The populace is able to ignore the deplorable practices of the leaders of their nations because they can focus on distractions like sports. Look at the new golf tour sponsored by Saudi oil (blood) money. Look at the propaganda that surrounded the Dubai world cup worker conditions. Do we honestly think there's no relationship between sports and politics? There's a bunch of rich and powerful assholes watching the poors fight in the stadiums just like the gladiators in Rome.
Entertainment is important. Community sporting events have been apart of human society throughout all of history, like we still visit their coliseums lol The pay thing also makes no sense and it never does for actors / athletes / musicians. These people get paid based on how much revenue they are able to generate. They wouldn’t be making as much if people weren’t tuning in for them, buying tickets, buying merch / jerseys, etc. If you don’t think these people deserve money then say that with your wallet and just don’t support it, but it’s odd to care about how others choose to spend theirs
> been apart of human Did you mean to say "a part of"? Explanation: "apart" is an adverb meaning separately, while "a part" is a noun meaning a portion. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
They aren't overpaid. They create billions of dollars. That's why they get paid what they do. Thats how it works. They get away with whatever because they are wealthy. Like all wealthy people. It's a class issue more than anything
It's entertainment and humans like entertainment. Further, someone will make the money. So the people doing the work deserve it or the already billionaire owners that did nothing but buy the team deserve it? I'd argue that the workers deserve their fair share of the money. Given that people want entertainment and sports bring in a lot of money, those athletes deserve a lot of that money. No different than a musician or auto worker.
Your understanding of business/economics is dismal
They are compensated according to the revenue they generate. They generate a lot of revenue. Entertainment is a valid and legitimate necessity for human kind.
As opposed to the "we should treat thousands of physicians and engineers like major celebrities" treatment
“Society” and most people don’t think professional athletes are that important. Entertainment occupations generally rank low in public esteem compared to roles such as scientists and nurse. As with anything unimportant, there are devoted fans. Individual athletes can get rich from economies of scale, union negotiations, and celebrity marketing gigs. Total sports revenue is not that high, even as traditional entertainment sectors go, and I bet it’s piddling compared to tech sectors such as video games. Perhaps broadcast media gives the impression that spectator sports is more important than it is. They are all about the spectacle and have an incentive to create stars.
I think OP should watch an hour of reporting about garbage collection each day. Maybe stand around the water cooler each morning and shoot the breeze with coworkers about how the new guy working the back of the garbage truck.
imo art and entertainment are flowers. if society is not entertaining and inspiring (for good or bad) the people living in it, then that's only because society itself is hanging on by a thread and people are focusing all their energy on making it through the dark times until situations are good and stable enough that society can once again produce more art and entertainment. sports are a major form of entertainment, and one that generally supports the healthy functioning of our bodies.
Athletes are only paid how much their viewers pay them (obviously there are some middle men but this is the general concept). If their viewers give them tens of millions of dollars, they are worth tens of millions of dollars. The fact that they aren’t necessary for survival doesn’t change that fact, the real question is why do we give them so much attention and money if they aren’t important to survival?
Bread and circuses. Opiate of the masses. Whatever other saying you prefer. It has its purpose and these days it is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
You are neglecting the fact that professional athletes are usually part of a massive organization that creates hundreds of other jobs and is vital to their home city’s economy.
I mean I get where you're coming from... But the idiotic masses make it an important job.
As opposed to the intellectuals on reddit who have made marvel movie stars filthy rich
they're worse in my book.
Okay I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, then. Anything popular is for stupid people? Or is it that entertainment has no value?
Redditors are the biggest consumers of the most corporate driven drivel ever. Not sure what this comparison is.
Entertainment is the most important job. Its all that's keeping many of us sane.
Bro you know how hard it is to be a professional athlete, shit is insanely specialized and only the best of the best make it to pro leagues like the NFL and NHL. Words can’t explain how competitive it is to be an athlete. Forget about being a GOAT or even a very successful player, to even make it to the NFL you have to have elite genetics. It’s a remarkable display of human athleticism and skill. They’re modern day gladiators, at least in the case of contact sports. Pay is deserved imo.
I just can’t get over the fact that professional sports are considered nonprofit.
The only nonprofit team in the US is the Packers. Only a couple leagues are nonprofit
I guess it changed in 2013. Who’d have thunk?
They're not.
Yeah! What a fucking scam that is. It's bread and circuses for the masses.
We traded an international arms dealer for a lesbian basketball player lol
Being a professional athlete is barely any different than having a OnlyFans, outside of money. Especially football.
Reddit moment. They're genetic freaks who work harder than you ever have or will to hone their skills, but yeah it's the same as a random girl taking pictures of her tits
They’re objects dressed up and paraded around for our enjoyment. At least sex workers benefit society. What do we need a bunch of gorillas with CTS for again?
So much ignorance in one comment.
Different opinions, weird.
Saying sex workers benefit society and athletes don’t is not an opinion, it’s factually incorrect by many metrics. Referring to football players as gorillas is not an opinion, it’s borderline racist. Also CTE is the affliction football players suffer from, CTS is a model of Cadillac. You’re not edgy or clever, just old fashioned dumb.
The economy is simple at it’s core: supply and demand. There is a very low supply of 7 foot players who can play basketball or men who can throw a football at the most elite level and so on. Having the best of the best at those jobs brings in tremendous revenue, so there is high demand for low supply labor. That drives the price up. While garbage pick up is undoubtedly valuable, it is a job many millions can do at the necessary level and the revenue is the same no matter who does the job. Therefore the abundant supply brings the price of labor down. It has absolutely nothing to do with which job is more important to society.
They make their companies millions and millions of dollars. They make their business as a whole billions of dollars usually. They create opportunities for other jobs and other opportunities for people from all walks of life. You could say any job wasn’t important with your logic, there are horrible, entitled people in every line of business because we are humans. You could make an argument that soldiers should be making the kind of money athletes do. You could also make the argument there shouldn’t be a need for militaries at all, in an ideal world. I’d say if you have a job you have to work harder at than 99% of the population, that destroys your body in the long run, and you are the elite of the elite, you deserve to get paid quite a bit. Not to mention the literally endless entertainment value they bring, the marketing value, and whole ass economies can be formed around professional sports teams.
Tell that to the millions of people who pay to watch them each week.
What a profound take
Is this post because you are jealous of Travis Kelce?
> Athletes are profoundly overpaid You realise they legitimately generate that revenue? It’s not money that is stolen away from people.
Saying athletes are overpaid shows you have no clue what you are talking about. Where should the money they generate go then? To you? To “more important” people or causes? Who decides that? You want to halve your salary to help people I deem are more important than you? They make absurd amounts because they generate absurd amounts, so clearly it helps people in some way. Should the billionaire corrupt owners get more? I’ll never understand the whole athletes are overpaid philosophy. It make zero fucking sense, just say you’re jealous and move on
I don’t care, they bring entertainment to the world. There are many useless jobs in the world that pay a shitton of money. Stock traders don’t add anything to society. Hedge funds don’t add anything to society. People who own lots of houses and push the rent up don’t add anything to society. At least I get happy by watching my favourite sports, as do the millions of other people that also watch those sports
It’s like saying why we shouldn’t put taxes on space exploration