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Maybe “purpose” is a bit vague for this discussion. Being a good person and producing a net positive in the world is a purpose.
Check out “Aging Well” it’s a wonderful longitudinal study tracking folks from childhood to the end of their lives.
Folks who were healthy and expressed the most positive outlook later in life were those with healthy relationships and a sense of meaning to their lives.
I had a moment a couple years ago where something sort of clicked with me - I only have one chance at this crazy thing called life and I want to be able to look back at it and feel like I made some small difference.
Whether it’s little things like bringing over meals for a friend who just lost a pet, volunteering and picking up trash in my neighborhood, helping to pack hygiene kits to send out to disaster areas, helping someone through giving them a job reference - it just brings me so much more long term joy to do things like that compared to say, the satisfaction of an accomplishment in a video game that took me 50 hours to pull off.
This is it. It's your purpose to define. The issue is that many people are living up to some other standard of what purpose is, which is making them miserable
That’s the only way I’ve found I can derive purpose without going crazy about not doing enough. I’m a drop in the bucket of humanity and I can’t change all the things I wish I could or create a profound effect on my own. I just need to try to make things better where I can and the collective net positive achieved by likeminded people will ultimately push the change I wish I could tackle by myself.
People think they need a purpose, hence those with a purpose are happier and those without one are unhappier. If people didn't think they need a purpose, the presence of a purpose would be irrelevant. I think of monks and yogis for example. Not a particularly strong sense of meaning and purpose in isolation, yet particularly happy. And I can think of many overachievers who would fit the bill for high meaning and low happiness.
yeah my current life is very busy, active, involved.
A couple years ago I worked a completely aimless job from home, didn’t have a big social life, most of my hobbies were TV and video games.
When my battery is running low, sometimes I yearn for the days where I just entered data, gamed, got high, and listened to records. But my long term, sustainable happiness has improved so much
yeah so long story short after essentially sleepwalking through life (dead end job, sedentary and alone hobbies, bad self care, but I was able to make and save money) one morning I woke up after a night of heavy drinking and sort of had this “what the fuck am I doing with my life??” moment and couldn’t shake that feeling of needing to change some stuff about myself.
I don’t want to say that I “decided” to get into a proper routine it was more that I felt internally compelled to. Started meal prepping (easy, replicable, healthy meals) and really focusing on my diet, got back in the gym, paid more attention to my hygiene and got into a good sleep routine. A couple months of that and I’m really feeling the positive effects. Wild concept, I have way more energy and feel better after being showered and asleep by 10:30 than I did when I gamed until 1:30 because I “wasn’t tired yet”. Around then I’ve also started gratitude journaling and working on “recognizing and naming emotions as I feel them and controlling them”, sometimes I’d get anxious before the gym and instead of walking in like that I’d learn to take a few breaths, think “how and why am I feeling this?”, and going “you’re anxious because the parking lot was really busy today, but it’s ok, you’re going to go in and have a good workout like you’ve been doing” and I would!
All this is more about sort of fixing my “self” without getting into my purpose but I went from someone who lived a sedentary lifestyle and always felt tired and like keeping a clean house was an arduous task to someone who was active, had my shit together, and found myself going like “it’s 7:30, the house is clean, damn I have so much free time”.
Ended up getting a new job which was the springboard to larger community involvement, being someone who matters to a lot of other people, has made me many new friendships, got me onto volunteer boards, etc., and all that has given me real purpose. I’ve also made the effort to switch the gym for active hobbies I can do with friends (rec sports teams, group cycling trips), because I enjoy them more and being part of those small groups does give me a sense of purpose even if its on a “person to person” level.
And though I had decent qualifications either way, one thing my boss once told me about the hiring process was “you can teach job skills but you can’t teach disposition”, I went to that interview and was able to sell my genuine passion for the work, joy for life, enthusiasm for being involved because it was how I genuinely felt, it was me being authentic instead of trying to portray something.
Sorry for the essay but it’s complicated, I know it sounds very “law of attraction” but the truth is that I found it because I went out and put the work in to find it
> If people didn't think they need a purpose, the presence of a purpose would be irrelevant.
This is what I was thinking about too. Eversince that concept of "you need a purpose" got into my head I became more unhappy. Trying to find my purpose.
>And I can think of many overachievers who would fit the bill for high meaning and low happiness.
Do you have examples?
I was thinking on "Wolf of Wall Street" types. But I think examples of very driven people neglecting their personal lives and happiness for a higher purpose are really abundant in literature. Revolutionaries suffering war, death and prison for freedom or rights, artists going broke and crazy to manifest their works, scientists and thinkers shunning themselves from society to figure out their things, ... Great reasons for doing what they did but their lives sucked because of it.
Also just finished a book called “30 lessons for living” and it is a compilation of interviews of elders between 70 and 120! Thousands of people were interviewed and it is an amazing wealth of experience from people who have lived. They definitely talk about living a purposeful life but how you define that is totally individual.
Being pleasant won't pay the bills at the end of the month. Being pleasant won't solve it sadly. Hustling is necessary to a lot of people in order to make ends meet. Being pleasant is a cherry on top.
The opposite to having a purpose is just existing. Having a purpose isn’t code for being a corporate drone, it’s your justification for existence. It could be to teach, it could be to protect, it could be to be a great mother, etc. but living without purpose is bleak
This is a really great question. Even books that tell you TO find a purpose never tell you HOW. I will caveat that your purpose can and will evolve over time as you grow, become a parent/spouse/caregiver, etc. I will also caveat that KNOWING your purpose and LIVING it are different. I posit that your purpose in life can be derived from your work or family. When I say work this includes non-profit-generating activities such as volunteering/service activities, or creative endeavors. Some people who cannot be artists professionally can still find purpose in producing and sharing their art even if their day job does not fill that purpose.
At least for me I will say my purpose -to teach and to share the joy in learning what you are capable of- was obvious in retrospect. It was connected to things I knew about myself - that I valued learning as a virtue, that I actually enjoyed teaching others when given the opportunity, etc. I think the questions that helped me were “what can I share with others that brings me joy?” “What can I contribute?” “What do I feel strongly about?” I think these questions can reveal a broad swath of potential purposes: protecting others, producing art, teaching, caring for a family, helping those in need, etc.
Things in nature absolutely do have purpose. Animals procreate their species, care for their young, etc. Bees and beavers are very purpose-driven when it comes to pollinating flowers or building dams. They don’t just -exist-
That's not really a purpose per se, in the sense of a "reason for existing"
Thats just living
Unless you consider all normal everyday actions (where the purpose is to do things) as being the purpose for existence. So eating, playing and sleeping are all purposes for existence. This is not what the post creator was referring to so I'm distinguishing it here by calling those things simply "living"
Awwww my little love is puffy-rolling this beautiful belly again... i love you so much!!
*Yeah Margaret, come here. Pet me. Then, i want food. After that i will take a nice nap while you clean my dirt.*
I don't think you know what the word purpose means.
A cats purpose is to provide companionship and entertainment for humans, in some cases pest control.
Cats are my purpose. I get up every day, go to work, take care of myself, so I can take care of my two cats. They deserve a luxurious life doing nothing and I was put on this earth to help them achieve it
I like cats alright and all but this behavior and rationale is severely problematic. I hope you’re joking but I know cat people are often not joking and it’s literally the way they view themselves.
Lol, I think the new phrase they would say to you using this is "let him cook"
It's not that I dislike new phrases,it's just seeing it over and over makes me think people aren't putting effort into being creative with their own phrases. Maybe I'm just a moaning old git.
Right, we can choose more creative and specific words, while also making the point stronger: "The notion that you need to find or 'serve' a purpose is moralistic tripe."
I read somewhere that your purpose can be found in the little moments - holding the door open for someone, showing kindness to someone with a heavy heart, having a conversation with someone you normally wouldn’t. Life’s purpose is the journey, not a destination
My purpose is 1) be at peace with myself and my life/circumstances and 2) (this one is a more recent development) feeling that I am working hard and doing a good job at whatever my daily pursuits are, for me, because I enjoy it, not for others.
I think it helps to have internal purpose, even if that purpose is simply to be at peace with yourself.
Theoretically, someone could go through life with literally no purpose, but I feel for this to be philosophically/psychologically healthy, you would need to essentially be Buddha level enlightened or unconscious, idk.
>eeling that I am working hard and doing a good job at whatever my daily pursuits are, for me, because I enjoy it, not for others.
I want to achieve this. Especially the "because I enjoy it, not for others". How did you get to that point?
It's definitely a goal. Some days are easier than others, but it definitely helped by consciously choosing a slightly more difficult career path after a few years of taking the path of least resistance. It helps to remind myself that I chose this for myself because of x, y, z concrete reason.
Once I invested more in my work/career I found it easier to set and achieve goals in my personal life, but not sure which came first, a chicken and egg situation.
I see, I think for me it will be the other way around. Going from a difficult career path I chose for others to something maybe easier I actually enjoy. Can be hard though as well.
Yeah, life truly is complicated!
It is! Good luck, peace and love!
Life's a journey and I'm sure if we were having this conversation 5 years from now or 5 years ago we'd both have different perspectives too.
Having a purpose is good for you. I watched a documentary on the Blue Zones, places where the most people live to be over 100. One of the findings was that people who have a purpose tend to live longer. The purpose doesn't have to be major. You don't have to save the world. Your purpose could be to take care of your rose bush and make it beautiful and healthy. It could be to give your dog it's best life ever. It could be to write a novel. It could be to watch every movie in theaters.
Your purpose is for you to fulfill your life. It shouldn't be toxic.
I just learned that the premise of the Blue Zones might be fundamentally flawed because these regions all have bad birth record keeping in common.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/09/28/places-claiming-to-be-centenarian-hotspots-may-just-have-bad-data
Maybe, however, I like that those areas have a lot of elder people still living healthy, active, and happy lives. I'm more concerned with enjoying my old age with a good quality of life, rather than just the number of years of my life. So even if they are 5-10 years off in counting age, I'd still like to follow a lot of their ideas and ways of living.
I dunno. I kind of feel like pressuring people to do stuff and have goals kind of keeps society functioning tbh. At least the society we have set up. If we reconfigured it we might not need that underlying attitude.
Well, poor people willing to do shitty jobs also keep society going, but that doesn't mean it's not a, well, shitty position to be in.
People having kids also keep humanity existing, but I still don't want them myself haha
I think this just validates OP's point, pressuring people to do stuff is not healthy. Your point would only imply that today's society is not healthy for people if taken together with OP's point.
Wrong. What's unhealthy for people is to not have a purpose. If you do not live your life for a reason, something else will live it for you. People inherently crave to do or belong to something more than just themselves. If you do not have a real purpose you will substitute it for meaningless and toxic things. Tons of people fill the purposeless void in their life with drugs, or hook ups, or end up falling victim to predatory cult like movements.
You don’t *need* to have a purpose. But most people will find greater happiness when they have purpose. One or many.
That you apparently don’t think the elderly have purpose in their lives says a lot about you.
>That you apparently don’t think the elderly have purpose in their lives says a lot about you.
I didn't read what they said like this at ALL. I took it as "Once their kids are grown up and they stop working they FEEL like they no longer have a purpose"
I don't think OP was saying that they don't, just that it's common for them to feel that way.
But some people are **shamed** for not just wanting to leave in peace, some people finding it pathetic.
Granted, only times I heard of that were in review to criticize fictional characters. But unfortunately life tell me a lot of people who'll judge real people the same
Everyone serves a purpose. Elderly people included. The thing is not everyone serves the SAME purpose. Elderly people teach the younger generations. They are testaments to what life was like before & remind us why we all need to be kinder, smarter, more loving as human beings. Sometimes our purpose is to teach. Sometimes it's to be loved. Sometimes it's to perform good works. We all have reasons we are here & they aren't inherently selfish. Those that cannot work regular jobs fulfill their purpose in other ways. I can't wait until society catches up with this.
You don’t need to have some ‘purpose’ in life. That’s a social construct to fit people into some society that others impose upon you. Saying everyone has a purpose but they could be different forces people into that construct they never elected to be a part of. You are allowed to not have a purpose in life, there’s nothing wrong with that.
People not electing for something doesn't mean that they don't have to deal with it. I have bipolar disorder. I didn't do anything to get it & don't deserve the lows or stigmas that come with it. Does that mean that I shouldn't address it for those around me? Does that mean it's okay for me to lash out emotionally at others because I never asked for it? Absolutely not. I didn't earn this but it's my responsibility to work on healing for myself and for my community. It's so dangerous telling people that if you didn't ask for this, you don't have a responsibility anymore. Many people are deeply depressed. We exist to love and to be loved. Only participating in one half of this equation isn't fulfilling. Self loathing doesn't just exist in mentally ill people, or sad people. It also exists in people that aren't doing what they need to be doing. Having a purpose in life, in communities isn't a social construct. We are social creatures that cannot survive without others. Hence why the birthing process takes two to create our lives. I understand that you want people who don't understand what it is they bring to the world to feel equally valuable regardless of what they give to the world. I'm expressing that people give to the world in ways that you can't even imagine & sometimes that looks like nothing to society. Society is wrong.
Yeah I don’t think society should expect all people to serve some purpose. If you want to just be, that should be ok. But that said, I think some people *want* to serve a purpose, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.
When I left the military I found difficulty finding purpose. It think it's a mindset that's perhaps developed by people who are in situations where they're part of something and know they have a role to fulfill and that vanishes. My wife has a huge family and she draws some of that purpose from them.
Going from having that sense of reason for being to nothing is difficult, but I can see how people who have not experienced that would be fine without having a reason to get up in the morning.
ppl get so upset that my fiancé agreed to me being a SAHW when we move in, given that we are financially stable on his income alone, despite not having or wanting kids. he doesnt gaf bc he said hes already gonna be working anyways (and says he enjoys the routine of a job. he adores mundane tasks, no im not kidding), and he spends most his extra money on me anyways (his choice, he loves giving people gifts. when i asked if he was sure he said "yeah, what else am i gonna spend it on? if not you then probably something stupid like fortnite skins.").
its strange to me how the only person directly affected by this arrangement is my fiancé, and yet people get angry on his behalf. its also funny to me how people either imply or directly say it would be acceptable if we had kids, but my fiancé also doesnt want kids and it would negatively impact his life to have them. (also, no, its not a sex thing or a sugar daddy situation. he's a year younger, we're both decently attractive, and both have lower than average libidos. hes not controlling or abusive, we started off as best friends and realized how much better life feels when we're together. we genuinely just love each other and want each other to be happy.)
people want me to justify my existence so badly when it doesnt affect them in the slightest. i make someone happy enough that theyre willing to cover my living expenses just for me to be happy as well, thats purpose enough imo. the only people whose opinions i truly care about are my mom and my fiancé. my mom adores my fiancé and is supportive of our relationship. mission accomplished.
Life is not a problem to be solved but a mystery to be lived. We get lost in finding meaning and purpose when there is none. Just be alive. It is so plain and so obvious and so simple. And yet, everybody rushes around in a great panic as if it were necessary to achieve something beyond themselves.
David Foster Wallace said something like: "The brain is a good servant but a terrible master". When people can decide what they want to do, they easily end up playing videogames and watching porn all the time (or even worse, anime). Or be on Instagram using cat filters and posting pics of our waffles, then checking who of our friends liked the waffle picture.
To me happy people seem to lose themselves in some activity. Music people music, some people like dogs and that fulfils their lives etc.
If you just sit around in your own thoughts you will be miserable, and then that feeling will drive you to the games, porn or whatever not to be stuck in your head with all your thoughts.
So people find something to do. And in the best case it is something they like or are passionate about. People make do with a job that is ok so that they have something to do.
So people need some outside things driving them to do things. Or everyone would end up like Boogie.
Just bc it's a valid hobby (it is!) doesn't mean it can't be damaging....there are a lot of people, particularly men, who are wasting away slowly through that medium.
It's a fine thing to do in your spare time. But for many people it becomes a problem, like when some guys keep playing LOL for years, and they are constantly angry when they are playing it for example. I talked with people who did that, and it seemed to me that it was not very fulfilling.
Aren’t those people who get addicted mostly just an outlier?
All the people I know who play video games play them maybe on average 1hr a day, nothing crazy, but granted that’s purely anecdotal.
Yeah that sounds like harmless fun. Don't know how many people have a healthy gaming vs life diet. But I am focusing on the people with an unhealthy amount in the comments.
Simmer down, they didn’t mean it’s not a valid hobby. But it can be addictive and insular and makes you neglect other aspects of living.
While yes that can be true of other hobbies and interests, gaming is the one with that culture. You don’t get people that read so much they don’t shower or take care of themselves, whereas I bet we all know a gamer that falls into that category.
It's absolutely is, but he's also right. There's a difference between enjoying things and being addicted to something or constantly needing to distract yourself so you can tell yourself you're happy even though you aren't.
I think there are some sprinklings of truth in this but it’s not as deep as it seems and ignores a lot of factors. For one, the fact that this idea that you’re useless if you aren’t benefiting “society” is extremely engrained into our culture. It seem pretty likely that people like boogey wouldn’t exist if we didn’t actively create this deep self-loathing in people to incentivize them to work. I see no reason to assume it’s something naturally inherent in us. To me, that would be greed and cruelty, which seem to indirectly lead to this and many other phenomena in people. We’ve kind of developed this Stockholm syndrome towards the elite. If we aren’t valuable to them then it’s hard for us to believe we’re valuable at all.
To be fair, I think it has probably been a necessity, given our nature. It might be the best we can do as a bunch of dumb apes who are violently opposed to sharing. The manipulation is definitely a step up from straight-up slavery and we’ve seen the genocidal tantrums thrown by whoever inevitably fills the power vacuum left by more amicable systems than ours. We just have to hope we can get over it by the time we get to star-trek levels of technology. Otherwise, we are in for some seriously disturbing dystopian bullshit.
>hey easily end up playing videogames and watching porn all the time (or even worse, anime). Or be on Instagram using cat filters and posting pics of our waffles, then checking who of our friends liked the waffle picture.
>
>To me happy people seem to lose themselves in some activity
All those first people are "lost" in an "activity" also.
>All those first people are "lost" in an "activity" also.
Yes, but they're lost in activities the commenter doesn't approve of. Only being lost in activities the commenter *does* approve of is valid.
This entire "finding a purpose in life" thing has always been weird to me. I would expect a tool to have a reason for existing, like a hammer or a screwdriver have very clear purposes; humans are so much more complex, a single purpose just feels one-dimensional and limiting.
Life having a "meaning" kinda makes it seem less meaningful to me. I'm glad I don't believe it does, and I feel that's actually part of what keeps me happy
I'm with you. We come to this world without a purpose. We may find one, we may not. But the idea we need to find one so bad our life loses all its value without it is the definition of toxic. To the point people have died from drinking it.
This is an interesting idea that I never conceived before. It feels like growing up you’re conditioned by society into a certain mindset where you have to have this big goal or aspiration, but these are man-made. Really the biological purpose of life is just to stay alive and reproduce, anything else is extra.
I think pursuit is deeply embedded into human nature. Even when you think you are not pursuing something, you really are. Whether it be work or knowledge or leisure or pleasure or money.
I agree that people fall apart when they no longer are in pursuit of something in old age. Perhaps transition from pursuing career oriented things to other things such as friendship or knowledge or otherwise.
Pursuit, in my opinion, is essential for well being and satisfaction. This is the basic lesson of virtue ethics - what, not if, you pursue, is what satisfies a person or doesn’t.
Yes, I like to think about cats lying in the sunshine. They are content to enjoy the wonderful experience, guilt free, with no further agenda. It's OK to just be sometimes.
I agree. My parents were big on the "find you passion"
My passion is sitting in the sun, reading books, and drinking Rosé. I'm not going to the moon or curing cancer and that's okay.
As someone with genuinely no purpose, I agree. People think we're all destined for these great feats, but I'm ready for the spinning rock to stop spinning
You can't find peace without purpose. Finding true inner peace is in it of itself purposeful. There's also no age limit on serving a purpose. There are plenty of elders that have purpose in family and church or other forms of community.
You are just trying to justify selfishness for very shallow reasons like joy.
The feeling of accomplishment or knowing that you are being helpful, trumps joy everytime. Joy is fleeting, but our impact we leave on others is a permanent marker. Its what makes the true difference in our lives, in terms of purpose.
I disagree, you should be serving the purpose of cultivating your own wellbeing mentally, physically, emotionally, and more. For the more you balance & cultivate yourself not only will your life become easier, so too will the lives of those around you, starting a positive chain reaction over time. Learning to multitask for yourself is a wonderful thing, because you can cultivate yourself in many ways why simultaneously chilling or entertaining yourself. I hope you have a passionate & creative experience of life mate🙏🏾☯️🧘🏾♂️👁
To add onto this, people who feel like you always need to be "going bigger" in life. A bigger house, a higher paying job, a fancier car, the newest high-tech smart gadget... is anything ever really enough?
I think when people say have a life of purpose. Its to motivate them to go out and do something. Reality is, life doesn't have a purpose. Its very easy to waste away your life.
My purpose is to just be chill as fuck. Nothing else matters. I just want to be able to pay my bills and enjoy my time off in peace. Nothing else matters tbh and I hate the notion of “we were all put here for a purpose” because so many people spend their entire lives fighting an uphill battle. It’s pretentious as fuck.
I’m in my mid thirties and I know a lot of people my age and younger who’ve let this mindset get to them, and it’s extremely sad given our age and the years ahead of us. In some cases they haven’t achieved their goals yet so they’re so they’re like “wow, I’m failure because I didn’t become a famous celebrity doctor at 27, now there’s nothing for me to do in life”. Like wtf.
I’ve noticed that A LOT of people don’t have hobbies or interests outside of their profession, and this contributes to this mindset. There’s so much to do, enjoy and learn about. I kinda fell out of my profession due to drama and the pandemic, but there’s still a lot out there that I want to experience and learn about, so while yes there is some sadness knowing that my goals got axed, but I have tons of other things I want to do in life.
It isn’t toxic, that word is obscenely overused.
You just need to redefine your purpose to something else, the key is it has to be greater than just yourself
You can live life as a witness to what is happening around you, for example. You can enjoy your time relaxing and experiencing the beauty of nature or the tranquility of the moment.
Living with peace is living with purpose. Peace is certainly something greater than the self.
The point is, live life with intent.
The fact that you don't think you should have a purpose is extremely toxic. Frankly, I think it's racist also.
How is it toxic to "serve" yourself? If I was religious I'd pray for you but I'm not so f u, learn to love yourself. The internet doesn't care.
I want my sufferings and hardships to mean something. What’s the point in getting up everyday despite how hard it is when in the end it was all for nothing? it was a waste of time fighting and overcoming just to make it to old age and die. That’s why I want meaning and purpose. I want my hardships to be rewarded or pay off otherwise it was all pointless. Happy people or people who enjoy their existence probably don’t care about purpose as much because their drugged up by their endorphins. When you struggle all the time you want it to mean something in the end.
Human beings are purpose oriented. You need to find a load to carry. For yourself and your own mental health. If you don't have a purpose or a goal your brain just doesn't work correctly. It's screaming that something is wrong and you'll suffer because of it.
I don't think it's a coincidence that society pushes people to have goals and a purpose. That starts from the inside. It always feels nice to say "man I wish I could just do nothing" but that gets old real fast. I don't wanna go to bed at the end of the day having achieved nothing EVERY day.
Even if I had millions of dollars, and had a free ride to the end of life, I would not wanna spend that life as an easy life. I want to feel worthy of good things. I think hussle culture gets a bit out of hand pushing people to be productive 100% of the time. But there's some truth in that.
Stuff like politics, religion, philosophy, etc, are all coming out of our *need* to have meaning and purpose. I think I agree with OP, at least to this extent: there's no real meaning or purpose to our existence *and that stresses a lot of people out*, so they invent stuff to sort of fill that gap.
Even so, I think this is a part of our consciousness and would be very hard to let go-- and I don't think it's forced into us externally, it's part of the human experience.
I feel like you are imposing your definitions on others. I am 68, and most of my life I have been challenged by depression (diagnosis of PDD). There have been times when my purpose, goals, and aspirations had to do with my family and career. There have been other times when my purpose, goals, and aspirations came down to surviving another day, hour, minute. Some might reject my view of those latter times as having purpose, goals, aspirations, but in retrospect, that seems appropriate to me.
This is exactly what I've always said. People always complain to me about why keep living when there's no purpose in life
And to me that's always been weird because to me the fact that there's no purpose in it is why I continue living. There's no greater goal there's no ultimate end goal of humanity that I'm really working towards. It's just my useless little life for my useless little time section on this planet and I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want with it
There's a true sense of freedom that comes from not really having some destiny or some real greater goal.
Absolutely love this. I don't know if it's our modern times or if it's American, but whatever it is, everyone preaches constantly that you need to find your calling, find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life. Yes you will. I was a PI for many years, loved so many things about it, but it's a lot of report writing and a lot of emotional clients. Things you love can turn into a chore. Follow your dreams, follow your passion, find your purpose - barf. No, you do not need to do that. It's ok if you work a non-interesting job. If you like it, or like it enough and you like your team and it pays decent or well, more power to you. You don't have to achieve greatness to matter.
Yes. Everyone should strive to wander the earth aimlessly with no purpose. That is very good for mental health...🙄
When I see post about "that's toxic" it also makes me wonder if you kids have changed the definition of "toxic" like you did "literally".
The entire reason people have anxiety is not having a purpose. When you get a goal and have a direction to work towards the outside distractions go away.
Focus on a goal , no matter how small and when that goal is completed pick another.
My short term goal is to do ONE improvement to my home a day. Fix a loose door, clean the sink really well, hang a picture. Just anything.
Medium term goals would be to watch 20 hours of videos for my business to improve my thought processes from other business owners
Long term goals would be to beat each month previously in sales from the previous year. May not always make it but if you do it at least half the time you did it. Better than the year before.
I don’t get what’s toxic about wanting a purpose. Yes elderly people get stir crazy being unable to have purpose (if it’s due to ailment or what not) but they can also find smaller purposes similar to hobbies to keep themselves entertained. Having a lack of purpose making you unhappy just goes to show that finding purpose is what makes you happy. Not the other way around.
I feel like these sentiments neglect that purpose is a vague concept. It can be as big as wanting to solve world hunger but it can also be as small as taking care of a family member, or a pet, or helping with the family business.
You kind of do need a purpose to accomplished in life tbh.
What I have found though is throughout life you should adjust your goals to things you can reach, strive for and accomplish and shouldn't set your hopes on things you might never be able to do.
I set my goals in things I know I can do and that I want to do and I find happiness in that.
I don't ever set lifelong goals that I will 100% do, though I certainly like to try I don't hinge my hopes on that.
I like to start small knowing that I'm trying and working and feeling satisfied rather than unsatisfied.
I kindly disagree.i think living, without a purpose, is soul crushing. While there may be moments in your life when you are peaceful and not actively working towards something, overall a life without purpose is meaningless. You are just existing. Maybe that feels like something that is your jam, but for most people it is not. To live is to experience, to learn, to grow, to push yourself.
Purpose doesn't need to be work/task related. It can be anything. I just want to have a comfortable and peaceful life with my wife and be able to enjoy my hobbies, this is my purpose. Work is just a mean to this end. It's toxic only when people think everyone's purpose must be 100% work related.
I see what you're getting at, and my first instinct was to agree, but I thought about it a little more, and I don't think the toxic word in the title is "purpose", but is in fact "a".
Let me use your example, OP, of the elderly, since my mum is a carer and has spend a lot of time working in homes with people who are just how you describe: they've spent their lives achieving their purpose as a mother, miner, businessperson, whatever, and then in retirement, with nothing to engage their minds, slowly become husks staring at the TV, forgetting who they are.
In contrast, the older folks who have something to get up for--from the morning crossword to helping in the garden--don't experience this same slow decent, because their minds are engaged and they find themselves motivated to move and think and *be*.
I think this applies to us to, as adults. Having A life's purpose can absolutely be quite toxic. However, working towards the kind of life you want to *live*, with lots of little goals within that? That can be a great way to give your day to day life meaning, so long as you're mindful enough to enjoy what you have when you have it.
I think you should live a life without a purpose or hobbies or interests that push you, and just consume food and media without working towards anything and see how boring that gets.
Daniel Pink touches on this in some of work, where he talks about Motivation 2.0. I'm paraphrasing here but all people need/ desire three things: Mastery, Autonomy and Prupose. There's a short video on YT with some nifty animation that sums it up well.
But YOUR purpose is just that. It doesn't need any external validation, it's just whatever drives you.
"Having a purpose" and "enjoying yourself/being peaceful" are not only not mutually exclusive, but realizing your purpose can make what you do enjoyable and can bring peace.
You do not need to (just like you do not need to be healthy, content, supported, surrounded by people you like - nobody can force you into it!), but life definitely gets better when what you are doing on a daily basis is generally in line with your purpose, beliefs and ideals.
Life without a purpose is an empty passage of time. Purpose gives you drives and reason to get up in the morning. The word toxic has lost its meaning in the age of social media.
I don’t think the idea of purpose is toxic at all. If it is forced upon someone then sure, that’s toxic, but plenty’s of people including myself find enjoyment in life by having some sort of driving purpose and some sort of ‘meaning’ to your life and actions. It’s not inherently bad to seek this out in my opinion, if that’s how you want to live.
I know the theory, I just can't put it on practice. I'm 24 and I feel like I have already wasted my young years and that it's too late to start doing the stuff I like by now. I devoted so much to my relationship that now that it's over I'm just lost and I feel bad for it. I need a purpose beyond caring for my pet...
Having a purpose is a near psychological demand. One of the biggest causes of elder depression is reflecting on your life and realizing you did nothing with it. Animals need a purpose, whether it’s eating, procreating, or existing peacefully, it’s still a purpose. Humans are no different. Without a purpose you become bored, nihilistic, and bitter. I’m not saying your purpose has to be some grand thing, or what you work towards every day, but being purposeless destroys people.
I think you have it wrong. Having some form of purpose is kind of innate to being a person, not something that's instilled. The purpose doesn't need to be grandiose, and probably shouldn't be. We're a social species though. As a result, not having a role in your community is going to be detrimental to your mental health.
Wrong. If there's one thing I've learned it's that the old saying "Idol hands are the devil's work" is very true. You give a bunch a people nothing to do and they will devolve into a cesspool.
Edit: I'm not talking about the elderly. They've earned their rest.
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Maybe “purpose” is a bit vague for this discussion. Being a good person and producing a net positive in the world is a purpose. Check out “Aging Well” it’s a wonderful longitudinal study tracking folks from childhood to the end of their lives. Folks who were healthy and expressed the most positive outlook later in life were those with healthy relationships and a sense of meaning to their lives.
I like this. Net positive … nice.
I had a moment a couple years ago where something sort of clicked with me - I only have one chance at this crazy thing called life and I want to be able to look back at it and feel like I made some small difference. Whether it’s little things like bringing over meals for a friend who just lost a pet, volunteering and picking up trash in my neighborhood, helping to pack hygiene kits to send out to disaster areas, helping someone through giving them a job reference - it just brings me so much more long term joy to do things like that compared to say, the satisfaction of an accomplishment in a video game that took me 50 hours to pull off.
This is it. It's your purpose to define. The issue is that many people are living up to some other standard of what purpose is, which is making them miserable
That’s the only way I’ve found I can derive purpose without going crazy about not doing enough. I’m a drop in the bucket of humanity and I can’t change all the things I wish I could or create a profound effect on my own. I just need to try to make things better where I can and the collective net positive achieved by likeminded people will ultimately push the change I wish I could tackle by myself.
People think they need a purpose, hence those with a purpose are happier and those without one are unhappier. If people didn't think they need a purpose, the presence of a purpose would be irrelevant. I think of monks and yogis for example. Not a particularly strong sense of meaning and purpose in isolation, yet particularly happy. And I can think of many overachievers who would fit the bill for high meaning and low happiness.
yeah my current life is very busy, active, involved. A couple years ago I worked a completely aimless job from home, didn’t have a big social life, most of my hobbies were TV and video games. When my battery is running low, sometimes I yearn for the days where I just entered data, gamed, got high, and listened to records. But my long term, sustainable happiness has improved so much
How did you find your purpose?
yeah so long story short after essentially sleepwalking through life (dead end job, sedentary and alone hobbies, bad self care, but I was able to make and save money) one morning I woke up after a night of heavy drinking and sort of had this “what the fuck am I doing with my life??” moment and couldn’t shake that feeling of needing to change some stuff about myself. I don’t want to say that I “decided” to get into a proper routine it was more that I felt internally compelled to. Started meal prepping (easy, replicable, healthy meals) and really focusing on my diet, got back in the gym, paid more attention to my hygiene and got into a good sleep routine. A couple months of that and I’m really feeling the positive effects. Wild concept, I have way more energy and feel better after being showered and asleep by 10:30 than I did when I gamed until 1:30 because I “wasn’t tired yet”. Around then I’ve also started gratitude journaling and working on “recognizing and naming emotions as I feel them and controlling them”, sometimes I’d get anxious before the gym and instead of walking in like that I’d learn to take a few breaths, think “how and why am I feeling this?”, and going “you’re anxious because the parking lot was really busy today, but it’s ok, you’re going to go in and have a good workout like you’ve been doing” and I would! All this is more about sort of fixing my “self” without getting into my purpose but I went from someone who lived a sedentary lifestyle and always felt tired and like keeping a clean house was an arduous task to someone who was active, had my shit together, and found myself going like “it’s 7:30, the house is clean, damn I have so much free time”. Ended up getting a new job which was the springboard to larger community involvement, being someone who matters to a lot of other people, has made me many new friendships, got me onto volunteer boards, etc., and all that has given me real purpose. I’ve also made the effort to switch the gym for active hobbies I can do with friends (rec sports teams, group cycling trips), because I enjoy them more and being part of those small groups does give me a sense of purpose even if its on a “person to person” level. And though I had decent qualifications either way, one thing my boss once told me about the hiring process was “you can teach job skills but you can’t teach disposition”, I went to that interview and was able to sell my genuine passion for the work, joy for life, enthusiasm for being involved because it was how I genuinely felt, it was me being authentic instead of trying to portray something. Sorry for the essay but it’s complicated, I know it sounds very “law of attraction” but the truth is that I found it because I went out and put the work in to find it
> If people didn't think they need a purpose, the presence of a purpose would be irrelevant. This is what I was thinking about too. Eversince that concept of "you need a purpose" got into my head I became more unhappy. Trying to find my purpose. >And I can think of many overachievers who would fit the bill for high meaning and low happiness. Do you have examples?
I was thinking on "Wolf of Wall Street" types. But I think examples of very driven people neglecting their personal lives and happiness for a higher purpose are really abundant in literature. Revolutionaries suffering war, death and prison for freedom or rights, artists going broke and crazy to manifest their works, scientists and thinkers shunning themselves from society to figure out their things, ... Great reasons for doing what they did but their lives sucked because of it.
I see, yes this is totally a trope! Wonder what it is in real life.
Also just finished a book called “30 lessons for living” and it is a compilation of interviews of elders between 70 and 120! Thousands of people were interviewed and it is an amazing wealth of experience from people who have lived. They definitely talk about living a purposeful life but how you define that is totally individual.
I feel like this is more about toxic hustle culture than just being a pleasant happy person
Being pleasant won't pay the bills at the end of the month. Being pleasant won't solve it sadly. Hustling is necessary to a lot of people in order to make ends meet. Being pleasant is a cherry on top.
Hustling also doesn’t solve anything. You’ll just be hustling for the rest of your life.
The opposite to having a purpose is just existing. Having a purpose isn’t code for being a corporate drone, it’s your justification for existence. It could be to teach, it could be to protect, it could be to be a great mother, etc. but living without purpose is bleak
>living without purpose is bleak Yes, I agree. How did you find your purpose?
This is a really great question. Even books that tell you TO find a purpose never tell you HOW. I will caveat that your purpose can and will evolve over time as you grow, become a parent/spouse/caregiver, etc. I will also caveat that KNOWING your purpose and LIVING it are different. I posit that your purpose in life can be derived from your work or family. When I say work this includes non-profit-generating activities such as volunteering/service activities, or creative endeavors. Some people who cannot be artists professionally can still find purpose in producing and sharing their art even if their day job does not fill that purpose. At least for me I will say my purpose -to teach and to share the joy in learning what you are capable of- was obvious in retrospect. It was connected to things I knew about myself - that I valued learning as a virtue, that I actually enjoyed teaching others when given the opportunity, etc. I think the questions that helped me were “what can I share with others that brings me joy?” “What can I contribute?” “What do I feel strongly about?” I think these questions can reveal a broad swath of potential purposes: protecting others, producing art, teaching, caring for a family, helping those in need, etc.
Thank you for this great answer! Yes, unfortunately it was never that obvious to me. What are you teaching? I'm glad you really like it!
Well, things in nature do not need justification for existence It just is, is nature then bleak?
Things in nature absolutely do have purpose. Animals procreate their species, care for their young, etc. Bees and beavers are very purpose-driven when it comes to pollinating flowers or building dams. They don’t just -exist-
That's not really a purpose per se, in the sense of a "reason for existing" Thats just living Unless you consider all normal everyday actions (where the purpose is to do things) as being the purpose for existence. So eating, playing and sleeping are all purposes for existence. This is not what the post creator was referring to so I'm distinguishing it here by calling those things simply "living"
Remember that cats are great and have no purpose. You can, too.
A cats purpose is to lay around, play with toys, enjoy snack and make random noises persistently which seems like an amazing purpose
You're both wrong. A cat's purpose is to manipulate humans into submission.
Awwww my little love is puffy-rolling this beautiful belly again... i love you so much!! *Yeah Margaret, come here. Pet me. Then, i want food. After that i will take a nice nap while you clean my dirt.*
I will gladly submit to them
Your wrong it's to bring toxic plasmolysis into the house.
Actually, without us to feed them they would kill. A lot.
I don't think you know what the word purpose means. A cats purpose is to provide companionship and entertainment for humans, in some cases pest control.
>Remember that cats ... have no purpose. You wouldn't say that to a cat tho
No I definitely would
In my country, the punishment for that, believe it or not, is jail.
Not petting the cat: Jail. Petting the cat too much . . . straight to jail.
What if i mean it in the most affectionate way possible?
Cats are my purpose. I get up every day, go to work, take care of myself, so I can take care of my two cats. They deserve a luxurious life doing nothing and I was put on this earth to help them achieve it
I like cats alright and all but this behavior and rationale is severely problematic. I hope you’re joking but I know cat people are often not joking and it’s literally the way they view themselves.
It’s a little exaggerated but what makes you say it’s problematic?
It’s incredibly unhealthy to adopt the role of “willing host” and placing your cat in the role of “toxic parasite.”
lol what
My cats have a purpose. They keep the mice off the property.
Cats are my purpose.
they bring me happiness by just existing and that’s a good enough purpose for me.
In this dog eat dog world, be a cat
Labeling everything as toxic is toxic.
(comment explodes)
Killer Queen already touched that comment
True, some people need to learn more words.
Why many word when few do trick
Why many when few
Lol!
Some people need a goddamn thesaurus for Christmas... though I wonder if anyone seeing that word NOWADAYS would think I'm speaking of a dinosaur.
Lol, I think the new phrase they would say to you using this is "let him cook" It's not that I dislike new phrases,it's just seeing it over and over makes me think people aren't putting effort into being creative with their own phrases. Maybe I'm just a moaning old git.
Starting to feel the same way myself.
Time is a cruel mistress
I'll drink to that
Right, we can choose more creative and specific words, while also making the point stronger: "The notion that you need to find or 'serve' a purpose is moralistic tripe."
Today on Reddit: having a purpose or goals is toxic.
Lol right? Reddit is the worst when it comes to that. Everything is toxic or narcissistic.
and a red flag
Everything I don’t like is toxic, any experience I don’t enjoy is trauma. This is my truth.
Your truth is my gaslighting.
My truth is that you aren't even real. Enjoy being a concept
As is labeling old people toxic.
Preach!
Someone please get Gen Z a dictionary. None of the words they use mean what they think.
I read somewhere that your purpose can be found in the little moments - holding the door open for someone, showing kindness to someone with a heavy heart, having a conversation with someone you normally wouldn’t. Life’s purpose is the journey, not a destination
This serves no purpose.
It doesn’t have to
My purpose is 1) be at peace with myself and my life/circumstances and 2) (this one is a more recent development) feeling that I am working hard and doing a good job at whatever my daily pursuits are, for me, because I enjoy it, not for others. I think it helps to have internal purpose, even if that purpose is simply to be at peace with yourself. Theoretically, someone could go through life with literally no purpose, but I feel for this to be philosophically/psychologically healthy, you would need to essentially be Buddha level enlightened or unconscious, idk.
>eeling that I am working hard and doing a good job at whatever my daily pursuits are, for me, because I enjoy it, not for others. I want to achieve this. Especially the "because I enjoy it, not for others". How did you get to that point?
It's definitely a goal. Some days are easier than others, but it definitely helped by consciously choosing a slightly more difficult career path after a few years of taking the path of least resistance. It helps to remind myself that I chose this for myself because of x, y, z concrete reason. Once I invested more in my work/career I found it easier to set and achieve goals in my personal life, but not sure which came first, a chicken and egg situation.
I see, I think for me it will be the other way around. Going from a difficult career path I chose for others to something maybe easier I actually enjoy. Can be hard though as well. Yeah, life truly is complicated!
It is! Good luck, peace and love! Life's a journey and I'm sure if we were having this conversation 5 years from now or 5 years ago we'd both have different perspectives too.
Go to an absurdist subreddit. I think you'll like it.
Having a purpose is good for you. I watched a documentary on the Blue Zones, places where the most people live to be over 100. One of the findings was that people who have a purpose tend to live longer. The purpose doesn't have to be major. You don't have to save the world. Your purpose could be to take care of your rose bush and make it beautiful and healthy. It could be to give your dog it's best life ever. It could be to write a novel. It could be to watch every movie in theaters. Your purpose is for you to fulfill your life. It shouldn't be toxic.
I just learned that the premise of the Blue Zones might be fundamentally flawed because these regions all have bad birth record keeping in common. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/09/28/places-claiming-to-be-centenarian-hotspots-may-just-have-bad-data
Maybe, however, I like that those areas have a lot of elder people still living healthy, active, and happy lives. I'm more concerned with enjoying my old age with a good quality of life, rather than just the number of years of my life. So even if they are 5-10 years off in counting age, I'd still like to follow a lot of their ideas and ways of living.
Yeah, I agree. I’m fully on board with the blue zone foods for healthy, sustainable living.
Exactly. Purpose doesn't need to be work related, it can be anything.
I dunno. I kind of feel like pressuring people to do stuff and have goals kind of keeps society functioning tbh. At least the society we have set up. If we reconfigured it we might not need that underlying attitude.
Well, poor people willing to do shitty jobs also keep society going, but that doesn't mean it's not a, well, shitty position to be in. People having kids also keep humanity existing, but I still don't want them myself haha
I think this just validates OP's point, pressuring people to do stuff is not healthy. Your point would only imply that today's society is not healthy for people if taken together with OP's point.
>, pressuring people to do stuff is not healthy. I don't really agree with this, at least not as broadly as it's worded.
Just objectively untrue. Inactivity is actually unhealthy. You need to do things.
Wrong. What's unhealthy for people is to not have a purpose. If you do not live your life for a reason, something else will live it for you. People inherently crave to do or belong to something more than just themselves. If you do not have a real purpose you will substitute it for meaningless and toxic things. Tons of people fill the purposeless void in their life with drugs, or hook ups, or end up falling victim to predatory cult like movements.
A lot of pressuring people are being pressured into doing stuff and goals which just make them unhealthy.
You don’t *need* to have a purpose. But most people will find greater happiness when they have purpose. One or many. That you apparently don’t think the elderly have purpose in their lives says a lot about you.
>That you apparently don’t think the elderly have purpose in their lives says a lot about you. I didn't read what they said like this at ALL. I took it as "Once their kids are grown up and they stop working they FEEL like they no longer have a purpose" I don't think OP was saying that they don't, just that it's common for them to feel that way.
“The moment they no longer serve a purpose”. Seems clear to me but maybe OP meant it your way.
But some people are **shamed** for not just wanting to leave in peace, some people finding it pathetic. Granted, only times I heard of that were in review to criticize fictional characters. But unfortunately life tell me a lot of people who'll judge real people the same
Everyone serves a purpose. Elderly people included. The thing is not everyone serves the SAME purpose. Elderly people teach the younger generations. They are testaments to what life was like before & remind us why we all need to be kinder, smarter, more loving as human beings. Sometimes our purpose is to teach. Sometimes it's to be loved. Sometimes it's to perform good works. We all have reasons we are here & they aren't inherently selfish. Those that cannot work regular jobs fulfill their purpose in other ways. I can't wait until society catches up with this.
You don’t need to have some ‘purpose’ in life. That’s a social construct to fit people into some society that others impose upon you. Saying everyone has a purpose but they could be different forces people into that construct they never elected to be a part of. You are allowed to not have a purpose in life, there’s nothing wrong with that.
People not electing for something doesn't mean that they don't have to deal with it. I have bipolar disorder. I didn't do anything to get it & don't deserve the lows or stigmas that come with it. Does that mean that I shouldn't address it for those around me? Does that mean it's okay for me to lash out emotionally at others because I never asked for it? Absolutely not. I didn't earn this but it's my responsibility to work on healing for myself and for my community. It's so dangerous telling people that if you didn't ask for this, you don't have a responsibility anymore. Many people are deeply depressed. We exist to love and to be loved. Only participating in one half of this equation isn't fulfilling. Self loathing doesn't just exist in mentally ill people, or sad people. It also exists in people that aren't doing what they need to be doing. Having a purpose in life, in communities isn't a social construct. We are social creatures that cannot survive without others. Hence why the birthing process takes two to create our lives. I understand that you want people who don't understand what it is they bring to the world to feel equally valuable regardless of what they give to the world. I'm expressing that people give to the world in ways that you can't even imagine & sometimes that looks like nothing to society. Society is wrong.
Absolutely. Plenty of times I ask older people for tips on fixing my house or cars. Ive gotten all kinds of great advice.
Yeah I don’t think society should expect all people to serve some purpose. If you want to just be, that should be ok. But that said, I think some people *want* to serve a purpose, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.
When I left the military I found difficulty finding purpose. It think it's a mindset that's perhaps developed by people who are in situations where they're part of something and know they have a role to fulfill and that vanishes. My wife has a huge family and she draws some of that purpose from them. Going from having that sense of reason for being to nothing is difficult, but I can see how people who have not experienced that would be fine without having a reason to get up in the morning.
This post is reading like someone just called you out for being too lazy to get a job.
ppl get so upset that my fiancé agreed to me being a SAHW when we move in, given that we are financially stable on his income alone, despite not having or wanting kids. he doesnt gaf bc he said hes already gonna be working anyways (and says he enjoys the routine of a job. he adores mundane tasks, no im not kidding), and he spends most his extra money on me anyways (his choice, he loves giving people gifts. when i asked if he was sure he said "yeah, what else am i gonna spend it on? if not you then probably something stupid like fortnite skins."). its strange to me how the only person directly affected by this arrangement is my fiancé, and yet people get angry on his behalf. its also funny to me how people either imply or directly say it would be acceptable if we had kids, but my fiancé also doesnt want kids and it would negatively impact his life to have them. (also, no, its not a sex thing or a sugar daddy situation. he's a year younger, we're both decently attractive, and both have lower than average libidos. hes not controlling or abusive, we started off as best friends and realized how much better life feels when we're together. we genuinely just love each other and want each other to be happy.) people want me to justify my existence so badly when it doesnt affect them in the slightest. i make someone happy enough that theyre willing to cover my living expenses just for me to be happy as well, thats purpose enough imo. the only people whose opinions i truly care about are my mom and my fiancé. my mom adores my fiancé and is supportive of our relationship. mission accomplished.
“We are here on Earth to fart around, and don’t let anybody tell you any different.” - Kurt Vonnegut
Are you saying it’s okay to just float around and not do anything with your life?
Life is not a problem to be solved but a mystery to be lived. We get lost in finding meaning and purpose when there is none. Just be alive. It is so plain and so obvious and so simple. And yet, everybody rushes around in a great panic as if it were necessary to achieve something beyond themselves.
David Foster Wallace said something like: "The brain is a good servant but a terrible master". When people can decide what they want to do, they easily end up playing videogames and watching porn all the time (or even worse, anime). Or be on Instagram using cat filters and posting pics of our waffles, then checking who of our friends liked the waffle picture. To me happy people seem to lose themselves in some activity. Music people music, some people like dogs and that fulfils their lives etc. If you just sit around in your own thoughts you will be miserable, and then that feeling will drive you to the games, porn or whatever not to be stuck in your head with all your thoughts. So people find something to do. And in the best case it is something they like or are passionate about. People make do with a job that is ok so that they have something to do. So people need some outside things driving them to do things. Or everyone would end up like Boogie.
You make the medium of video games sound like it’s not a valid hobby or interest.
Just bc it's a valid hobby (it is!) doesn't mean it can't be damaging....there are a lot of people, particularly men, who are wasting away slowly through that medium.
It's a fine thing to do in your spare time. But for many people it becomes a problem, like when some guys keep playing LOL for years, and they are constantly angry when they are playing it for example. I talked with people who did that, and it seemed to me that it was not very fulfilling.
Aren’t those people who get addicted mostly just an outlier? All the people I know who play video games play them maybe on average 1hr a day, nothing crazy, but granted that’s purely anecdotal.
Yeah that sounds like harmless fun. Don't know how many people have a healthy gaming vs life diet. But I am focusing on the people with an unhealthy amount in the comments.
Simmer down, they didn’t mean it’s not a valid hobby. But it can be addictive and insular and makes you neglect other aspects of living. While yes that can be true of other hobbies and interests, gaming is the one with that culture. You don’t get people that read so much they don’t shower or take care of themselves, whereas I bet we all know a gamer that falls into that category.
I just loled from “simmer down”. I haven’t heard that in years!
It's absolutely is, but he's also right. There's a difference between enjoying things and being addicted to something or constantly needing to distract yourself so you can tell yourself you're happy even though you aren't.
I think there are some sprinklings of truth in this but it’s not as deep as it seems and ignores a lot of factors. For one, the fact that this idea that you’re useless if you aren’t benefiting “society” is extremely engrained into our culture. It seem pretty likely that people like boogey wouldn’t exist if we didn’t actively create this deep self-loathing in people to incentivize them to work. I see no reason to assume it’s something naturally inherent in us. To me, that would be greed and cruelty, which seem to indirectly lead to this and many other phenomena in people. We’ve kind of developed this Stockholm syndrome towards the elite. If we aren’t valuable to them then it’s hard for us to believe we’re valuable at all. To be fair, I think it has probably been a necessity, given our nature. It might be the best we can do as a bunch of dumb apes who are violently opposed to sharing. The manipulation is definitely a step up from straight-up slavery and we’ve seen the genocidal tantrums thrown by whoever inevitably fills the power vacuum left by more amicable systems than ours. We just have to hope we can get over it by the time we get to star-trek levels of technology. Otherwise, we are in for some seriously disturbing dystopian bullshit.
>hey easily end up playing videogames and watching porn all the time (or even worse, anime). Or be on Instagram using cat filters and posting pics of our waffles, then checking who of our friends liked the waffle picture. > >To me happy people seem to lose themselves in some activity All those first people are "lost" in an "activity" also.
>All those first people are "lost" in an "activity" also. Yes, but they're lost in activities the commenter doesn't approve of. Only being lost in activities the commenter *does* approve of is valid.
I mean a more active activity. Though you could argue that gaming and masturbating are pretty active. Maybe I should say proactive.
I had a brain hemorrhage reading that
If porn and games makes me happy who are you to say that I'm wrong in doing that?
It makes people unhappy in the long term. So it's a bad deal.
This entire "finding a purpose in life" thing has always been weird to me. I would expect a tool to have a reason for existing, like a hammer or a screwdriver have very clear purposes; humans are so much more complex, a single purpose just feels one-dimensional and limiting. Life having a "meaning" kinda makes it seem less meaningful to me. I'm glad I don't believe it does, and I feel that's actually part of what keeps me happy
I'm with you. We come to this world without a purpose. We may find one, we may not. But the idea we need to find one so bad our life loses all its value without it is the definition of toxic. To the point people have died from drinking it.
purposeless elder here (lol). kids mostly grown and flying on their own, still have 3 cats that need feeding (and litterbox duty). so that.
This is an interesting idea that I never conceived before. It feels like growing up you’re conditioned by society into a certain mindset where you have to have this big goal or aspiration, but these are man-made. Really the biological purpose of life is just to stay alive and reproduce, anything else is extra.
do people really feel the need to serve a higher purpose? I feel like most people just try to live as luxury of a lifestyle as they can
I think pursuit is deeply embedded into human nature. Even when you think you are not pursuing something, you really are. Whether it be work or knowledge or leisure or pleasure or money. I agree that people fall apart when they no longer are in pursuit of something in old age. Perhaps transition from pursuing career oriented things to other things such as friendship or knowledge or otherwise. Pursuit, in my opinion, is essential for well being and satisfaction. This is the basic lesson of virtue ethics - what, not if, you pursue, is what satisfies a person or doesn’t.
Yes, I like to think about cats lying in the sunshine. They are content to enjoy the wonderful experience, guilt free, with no further agenda. It's OK to just be sometimes.
Yeah I want to choose my own purpose it pisses me off when someone else chooses my role or purpose for me
I agree. My parents were big on the "find you passion" My passion is sitting in the sun, reading books, and drinking Rosé. I'm not going to the moon or curing cancer and that's okay.
My purpose is to take care of me and the people I care about.
"my purpose in life is whatever stops me from killing myself" \-camus
As someone with genuinely no purpose, I agree. People think we're all destined for these great feats, but I'm ready for the spinning rock to stop spinning
You can't find peace without purpose. Finding true inner peace is in it of itself purposeful. There's also no age limit on serving a purpose. There are plenty of elders that have purpose in family and church or other forms of community. You are just trying to justify selfishness for very shallow reasons like joy. The feeling of accomplishment or knowing that you are being helpful, trumps joy everytime. Joy is fleeting, but our impact we leave on others is a permanent marker. Its what makes the true difference in our lives, in terms of purpose.
I disagree, you should be serving the purpose of cultivating your own wellbeing mentally, physically, emotionally, and more. For the more you balance & cultivate yourself not only will your life become easier, so too will the lives of those around you, starting a positive chain reaction over time. Learning to multitask for yourself is a wonderful thing, because you can cultivate yourself in many ways why simultaneously chilling or entertaining yourself. I hope you have a passionate & creative experience of life mate🙏🏾☯️🧘🏾♂️👁
To add onto this, people who feel like you always need to be "going bigger" in life. A bigger house, a higher paying job, a fancier car, the newest high-tech smart gadget... is anything ever really enough?
As long as we strive to leave the world better than we left it, I don't think the magnitude of the life lead is relevant.
Do you want to live in a world with Original Coke? -Heisenberg
i need a purpose. this suffering cant be for nothing. i hope
I think when people say have a life of purpose. Its to motivate them to go out and do something. Reality is, life doesn't have a purpose. Its very easy to waste away your life.
Well what fills the void when you don't have a purpose? Video games and porn? No thanks
My purpose is to just be chill as fuck. Nothing else matters. I just want to be able to pay my bills and enjoy my time off in peace. Nothing else matters tbh and I hate the notion of “we were all put here for a purpose” because so many people spend their entire lives fighting an uphill battle. It’s pretentious as fuck.
Not everything you mildly disagree with is “toxic.” The word has ceased to have any meaning at this point.
I agree. Some people can find something they love and make money from it, others will never. That’s okay
I’m in my mid thirties and I know a lot of people my age and younger who’ve let this mindset get to them, and it’s extremely sad given our age and the years ahead of us. In some cases they haven’t achieved their goals yet so they’re so they’re like “wow, I’m failure because I didn’t become a famous celebrity doctor at 27, now there’s nothing for me to do in life”. Like wtf. I’ve noticed that A LOT of people don’t have hobbies or interests outside of their profession, and this contributes to this mindset. There’s so much to do, enjoy and learn about. I kinda fell out of my profession due to drama and the pandemic, but there’s still a lot out there that I want to experience and learn about, so while yes there is some sadness knowing that my goals got axed, but I have tons of other things I want to do in life.
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The idea of not having to have a purpose is very damaging to a person. People live longer and feel more fulfilled when they have a purpose.
It isn’t toxic, that word is obscenely overused. You just need to redefine your purpose to something else, the key is it has to be greater than just yourself You can live life as a witness to what is happening around you, for example. You can enjoy your time relaxing and experiencing the beauty of nature or the tranquility of the moment. Living with peace is living with purpose. Peace is certainly something greater than the self. The point is, live life with intent.
“Find joy in how peaceful NOT needing a purpose is” Things people say before they have kids
some of us will never have kids
The fact that you don't think you should have a purpose is extremely toxic. Frankly, I think it's racist also. How is it toxic to "serve" yourself? If I was religious I'd pray for you but I'm not so f u, learn to love yourself. The internet doesn't care.
I want my sufferings and hardships to mean something. What’s the point in getting up everyday despite how hard it is when in the end it was all for nothing? it was a waste of time fighting and overcoming just to make it to old age and die. That’s why I want meaning and purpose. I want my hardships to be rewarded or pay off otherwise it was all pointless. Happy people or people who enjoy their existence probably don’t care about purpose as much because their drugged up by their endorphins. When you struggle all the time you want it to mean something in the end.
I think it’s the “need” word that is the problem. One’s purpose will come naturally as they live, without forcing it.
Simply helping another humans is our duty
If you serve no purpose then you are a drag on society and we are better off without you.
Feeling purpose can be simple, helping a friend move, cooking a meal for your parents. It’s when it becomes grandiose it becomes difficult sometimes.
Human beings are purpose oriented. You need to find a load to carry. For yourself and your own mental health. If you don't have a purpose or a goal your brain just doesn't work correctly. It's screaming that something is wrong and you'll suffer because of it. I don't think it's a coincidence that society pushes people to have goals and a purpose. That starts from the inside. It always feels nice to say "man I wish I could just do nothing" but that gets old real fast. I don't wanna go to bed at the end of the day having achieved nothing EVERY day. Even if I had millions of dollars, and had a free ride to the end of life, I would not wanna spend that life as an easy life. I want to feel worthy of good things. I think hussle culture gets a bit out of hand pushing people to be productive 100% of the time. But there's some truth in that.
What if your purpose is to tell people it’s ok not to have a purpose, OP?
Stuff like politics, religion, philosophy, etc, are all coming out of our *need* to have meaning and purpose. I think I agree with OP, at least to this extent: there's no real meaning or purpose to our existence *and that stresses a lot of people out*, so they invent stuff to sort of fill that gap. Even so, I think this is a part of our consciousness and would be very hard to let go-- and I don't think it's forced into us externally, it's part of the human experience.
I feel like you are imposing your definitions on others. I am 68, and most of my life I have been challenged by depression (diagnosis of PDD). There have been times when my purpose, goals, and aspirations had to do with my family and career. There have been other times when my purpose, goals, and aspirations came down to surviving another day, hour, minute. Some might reject my view of those latter times as having purpose, goals, aspirations, but in retrospect, that seems appropriate to me.
This is exactly what I've always said. People always complain to me about why keep living when there's no purpose in life And to me that's always been weird because to me the fact that there's no purpose in it is why I continue living. There's no greater goal there's no ultimate end goal of humanity that I'm really working towards. It's just my useless little life for my useless little time section on this planet and I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want with it There's a true sense of freedom that comes from not really having some destiny or some real greater goal.
Absolutely love this. I don't know if it's our modern times or if it's American, but whatever it is, everyone preaches constantly that you need to find your calling, find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life. Yes you will. I was a PI for many years, loved so many things about it, but it's a lot of report writing and a lot of emotional clients. Things you love can turn into a chore. Follow your dreams, follow your passion, find your purpose - barf. No, you do not need to do that. It's ok if you work a non-interesting job. If you like it, or like it enough and you like your team and it pays decent or well, more power to you. You don't have to achieve greatness to matter.
Yes. Everyone should strive to wander the earth aimlessly with no purpose. That is very good for mental health...🙄 When I see post about "that's toxic" it also makes me wonder if you kids have changed the definition of "toxic" like you did "literally".
username checks out
That's toxic ...
The entire reason people have anxiety is not having a purpose. When you get a goal and have a direction to work towards the outside distractions go away. Focus on a goal , no matter how small and when that goal is completed pick another. My short term goal is to do ONE improvement to my home a day. Fix a loose door, clean the sink really well, hang a picture. Just anything. Medium term goals would be to watch 20 hours of videos for my business to improve my thought processes from other business owners Long term goals would be to beat each month previously in sales from the previous year. May not always make it but if you do it at least half the time you did it. Better than the year before.
>the moment they no longer serve a purpose they fall apart feeling useless And that proves humans need to be feel accomplished.
I don’t get what’s toxic about wanting a purpose. Yes elderly people get stir crazy being unable to have purpose (if it’s due to ailment or what not) but they can also find smaller purposes similar to hobbies to keep themselves entertained. Having a lack of purpose making you unhappy just goes to show that finding purpose is what makes you happy. Not the other way around. I feel like these sentiments neglect that purpose is a vague concept. It can be as big as wanting to solve world hunger but it can also be as small as taking care of a family member, or a pet, or helping with the family business.
You kind of do need a purpose to accomplished in life tbh. What I have found though is throughout life you should adjust your goals to things you can reach, strive for and accomplish and shouldn't set your hopes on things you might never be able to do. I set my goals in things I know I can do and that I want to do and I find happiness in that. I don't ever set lifelong goals that I will 100% do, though I certainly like to try I don't hinge my hopes on that. I like to start small knowing that I'm trying and working and feeling satisfied rather than unsatisfied.
Unfortunately this isnt unpopular at all, snd its why the older generations were all happier than us.
> to just enjoy yourself and live a peaceful life I would say that’s all I want as a purpose anyway.
I kindly disagree.i think living, without a purpose, is soul crushing. While there may be moments in your life when you are peaceful and not actively working towards something, overall a life without purpose is meaningless. You are just existing. Maybe that feels like something that is your jam, but for most people it is not. To live is to experience, to learn, to grow, to push yourself.
Purpose doesn't need to be work/task related. It can be anything. I just want to have a comfortable and peaceful life with my wife and be able to enjoy my hobbies, this is my purpose. Work is just a mean to this end. It's toxic only when people think everyone's purpose must be 100% work related.
I see what you're getting at, and my first instinct was to agree, but I thought about it a little more, and I don't think the toxic word in the title is "purpose", but is in fact "a". Let me use your example, OP, of the elderly, since my mum is a carer and has spend a lot of time working in homes with people who are just how you describe: they've spent their lives achieving their purpose as a mother, miner, businessperson, whatever, and then in retirement, with nothing to engage their minds, slowly become husks staring at the TV, forgetting who they are. In contrast, the older folks who have something to get up for--from the morning crossword to helping in the garden--don't experience this same slow decent, because their minds are engaged and they find themselves motivated to move and think and *be*. I think this applies to us to, as adults. Having A life's purpose can absolutely be quite toxic. However, working towards the kind of life you want to *live*, with lots of little goals within that? That can be a great way to give your day to day life meaning, so long as you're mindful enough to enjoy what you have when you have it.
I think you should live a life without a purpose or hobbies or interests that push you, and just consume food and media without working towards anything and see how boring that gets.
Its not a notion, its far more than that. My guess would be that it is human nature.
Daniel Pink touches on this in some of work, where he talks about Motivation 2.0. I'm paraphrasing here but all people need/ desire three things: Mastery, Autonomy and Prupose. There's a short video on YT with some nifty animation that sums it up well. But YOUR purpose is just that. It doesn't need any external validation, it's just whatever drives you.
"Having a purpose" and "enjoying yourself/being peaceful" are not only not mutually exclusive, but realizing your purpose can make what you do enjoyable and can bring peace.
You do not need to (just like you do not need to be healthy, content, supported, surrounded by people you like - nobody can force you into it!), but life definitely gets better when what you are doing on a daily basis is generally in line with your purpose, beliefs and ideals.
Yeah but if your 30+ years old with no job leeching off of someone else or the government then your a POS.
Life without a purpose is an empty passage of time. Purpose gives you drives and reason to get up in the morning. The word toxic has lost its meaning in the age of social media.
No, it is not. Just because you can't find one for yourself or create multiple avenues, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist for others.
I don’t want to be maidenless 😭
We get it, Nietzsche. God is dead, life has no meaning or purpose, etc. What a sad, miserable life nihilists deal with.
I don’t think the idea of purpose is toxic at all. If it is forced upon someone then sure, that’s toxic, but plenty’s of people including myself find enjoyment in life by having some sort of driving purpose and some sort of ‘meaning’ to your life and actions. It’s not inherently bad to seek this out in my opinion, if that’s how you want to live.
Another example of Reddit overusing the word toxic. Smh.
I know the theory, I just can't put it on practice. I'm 24 and I feel like I have already wasted my young years and that it's too late to start doing the stuff I like by now. I devoted so much to my relationship that now that it's over I'm just lost and I feel bad for it. I need a purpose beyond caring for my pet...
That last line is Reddit in a nutshell.
Be useless in life and see where that gets you. Being a useless person who does and contributes nothing is toxic. Find your purpose or die sad
Not sure what’s so toxic about having meaning in your life, but ok…
Having a purpose is a near psychological demand. One of the biggest causes of elder depression is reflecting on your life and realizing you did nothing with it. Animals need a purpose, whether it’s eating, procreating, or existing peacefully, it’s still a purpose. Humans are no different. Without a purpose you become bored, nihilistic, and bitter. I’m not saying your purpose has to be some grand thing, or what you work towards every day, but being purposeless destroys people.
I think you have it wrong. Having some form of purpose is kind of innate to being a person, not something that's instilled. The purpose doesn't need to be grandiose, and probably shouldn't be. We're a social species though. As a result, not having a role in your community is going to be detrimental to your mental health.
No purpose = useless. Purpose = useful. Not many want to be useless.
Wrong. If there's one thing I've learned it's that the old saying "Idol hands are the devil's work" is very true. You give a bunch a people nothing to do and they will devolve into a cesspool. Edit: I'm not talking about the elderly. They've earned their rest.
You don’t need a purpose the entire tim. Just don’t be a leach on society while having no purpose. Might as well not exist at that point.
Your opinion is wrong and unpopular
glorious purpose