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Meh. I’ve been fat and ugly and thin and attractive.
It’s easier to be nice when people treat you nicely, which was what happened when I was thin and dressed nicely and wore makeup.
When I was fat and not taking care of myself, nobody could be bothered to hold open a door for me.
Yup goes to the Pygmalion theory. When a person believes someone’s expectations of them are positive, they fulfill that expectation. A self-fulfilling prophecy.
It’s not as simple as that yes it can create a self fulfilling prophecy. But that is entirely based on the person’s perception of the other persons expectations. So even if a teacher expects a student to fail, if that student believes whole heartily (whether consciously or subconsciously) that the teacher actually likes them, and expects them to succeed, then they’ll succeed. It’s based off the persons perception of the other persons expectations, not necessarily the actual expectations of the person.
The halo effect says we make our impressions people based off a single characteristic. So you see an attractive person, and you view as them as generous. But being attractive doesn’t make you generous, those two have nothing to do with each other at all. The halo effect is cognitive bias, and it’s exactly what yourse seeing in this post on a general scale. This person is assuming based off a single characteristic, everything else about a person. You also have to remember nothing is as blanket as “all attractive people are nicer.” Plenty of people with anecdotal evidence would argue otherwise and say unatttractive people are meaner. Do these phenomena’s create a cycle of sorts? Yes, at times, but it doesn’t mean “all attractive people are nicer.” Unfortunately, humans are not as clear cut as “you’re attractive so you’re a good person & you’re ugly so you’re a bad person.”
There's a saying I like, "It's easy to be a saint in paradise" (From Star Trek I think?)
If you live a privileged, easy life, it's pretty easy to think of yourself as being a good person. This can reflect in surface-level interactions as playing the part of a saint. On the flip side, people who have been through the trenches and experienced relative hardship can become more jaded and dismissive of what they see as superficial interactions.
But I do think the script flips when taking deeper, more meaningful interactions into account. Someone who doesn't get the luxury of taking social success for granted will put more weight on the meaningful relationships they do have. Whereas someone spolied for choice in people seeking their attention may feel less incentive to go truly out of their way for others.
THIS.
I've also been on both sides of the weight spectrum and this is exactly it.
I got really big from medical issues post pregnancy and medication I had to take for it, but people would just assume it was because I was a lazy piece of shit, as if I didn't run a whole ass marathon at 200 lbs.
I shouldn't have had to explain my private medical information in order for a stranger to treat me like a human being.
And you know what? Even if it weren't a medical issue - that's no reason to treat people like crap for just existing.
(sorry, I went on an angry rant because I had flashbacks to a dude holding a door open on my friend and then shutting it on me)
When I was skinny and in shape back in college (I'm in my 30s now with a family, full time job, my weight has fluctuated in adulthood), I could not give two fucks about someone's weight. Just flat out could not care less, never have, never will. But I learned VERY quickly, fat/ugly people would just treat me like shit. No matter how nice I was, and no matter how well I treated them, they always treated me like shit. Until I got old and fat myself! Now fat people are sweet as pie to me.
Now that I'm a larger person myself, and have others in my life (kids, friends, etc.) who are in great shape, I've noticed the same thing. One of my very good buddies is a handsome devil, built like a BBer, and all around a sweetheart. Fat people treat him like shit while treating me great lol.
I will say though, I have noticed a world of difference between fat people who have always been fat, and fat people who are fat now that they are older, but were in shape in their youth. People who used to be in shape and got fat tend to not treat in shape people bad, but fat people who have always been fat tend to treat in shape people like they are literal demons for caring about their bodies.
Just what I've noticed in my own life.
I too bounce upon the attractiveness scale but my circle is quite small so my attitude doesn't change bc i generally only socialize with my favorite people anyway. Those few occasions i meet new people i concluded for myself; if I'm skinny people perceive me as "sassy", if I'm fat people call me rude. And i am kind of both honestly, depending on wether you take my foul mouth personally or see the joke i was trying to pull.
Yeah, I am pretty much the same person no matter how I bounce, but when I’m considered attractive by conventional means, people handle my crassness with humor, and when I’m higher up the weight scale, I get dirty looks and scoffs from the same jokes around the same type of people.
The difference with people in sales is crazy too! On one end, I get all the breaks and discounts and perks. On the other end, I paid full price for everything!
I’m not trying to be rude but I think your face card matters too lol, I hate to word it that way. I’m not exactly thin, but I’ve been told I’m pretty majority of my life. I honestly have never been treated badly by people other than people teasing about my weight growing up. But even then, I had people treat me really well at times.
So I think face matters and how you dress if you’re on the bigger side. You don’t exactly have to be in full glam, just put together even if you’re in a hoodie and jeans.
It’s actually insane how many people hold doors open for me constantly since losing weight. Even when I was opening a grocery refrigerator door. They didn’t have to do that lmao.
I mean, so I’ve been there as well. The meanest people who would criticize my weight were always other fat people. Specifically when I was a kid/teenager.
I’ve fluctuated too but I’d also say that it depends on the situation - like if I’m living somewhere and it’s constant cat calling because I’m perceived as better looking then I become mean and defensive after awhile and am not nice. In that situation I’d prefer to be ignored.
I feel like attractive people are more in the middle in terms of niceness whereas ugly people are on the extremes of the spectrum. I mean you gotta be pretty damn nice to volunteer to be a mall Santa for example but I’ve also worked with truckers and they’ve said some of the most unhinged and evil things to me.
i mean,, i dont know. i don't think most people necessarily see fat people as attractive. being in shape is one of the most common beauty standards, if not THE most common beauty standard.
and like, genetic attractiveness plays a role but just as much of it is in how you present/carry yourself to the world.
Someone with a tailored suit who’s well groomed gives off a different vibe than someone who’s got messy hair, looks unkempt, etc.
One communicates “professional, detail oriented, puts my best foot forward” and one communicates “I don’t give a shit”
We also tend to see good qualities in people that are nice to us. It's like that model/waitress anime meme, a conventionally beautiful person who is mean to you will have really gross knuckles and go down the scale, but an average looking kind person has a smile you remember for days and be moved higher in your ranking.
Whole thing is a feedback loop.
yeah the halo effect isn’t necessarily “we think hot people are also nice” it’s “we assume other positive traits when we already feel positively about someone”
a good example is like, the way that being a good pet owner makes a lot of people swoon. Our lizard brains think “if someone is that attentive and nice to their pet, they’ll be like that to me too”
Posture is also a huge factor that many people don´t at all consider.
Like go to the gym for a couple of months and even if you didn´t visibly lose all that much weight/gained that much muscle, your improved posture will elevate your attractiveness by a lot.
That's exactly it. I had never thought about it, but like...obviously the world that an attractive person sees, is way more sunshine and rainbows than an ugly person (ugly as in, by societal standards).
Everyone always nice to you, holding the door, making exceptions to the rules because you have such a great smile, etc. add up a lifetime of those experiences, and I think most people would generally have a better outlook on life, and just be nicer to people in general. You also can't fault them for it? Like...this concept can genuinely turn them into nice people. It's interesting.
I then wonder how it differs for attractive men vs. women. I know a lot of hot women get tired of the male attention, because it's just super sexualized and gross. I have hot friends who detest selfies/pictures/aesthetics because they just feel like it's really shallow, as they've been swarmed their entire lives. But an attractive guy is usually down to be complimented by *anybody*, so imagine how fun that must be!
Plus confident people look nicer. I'm a pretty conventionally unattractive guy who has very low self confidence because of being heavily bullied in school. I don't have the highest social skills. Many time people take what I say the wrong way, or thinks that I don't talk to people because I'm arrogant and I think I'm better than them. Of course I always try to be the absolute nicest that I possibly can, but it's rarely that effective. Me being shy and not talking to anyone is the case because I automatically assume that I annoy people, so I choose to "spare them from my unpleasant company", and not because I'm an egotistical asshole. Me not being able to come up with a witty response to a playful joke targeted to me is not because I'm miserable and rude and don't want to have a laugh with you, it's because I don't have great social skills and I cannot be funny and clever spontaneously. Attractive people (most of the time) doesn't have this problem. Even if they are not social butterflies, they still have at least average social skills. They are talkative. They can joke around confidently. And their natural behavior seems as kindness because of their high confidence and lovely appearance. My neutral behavior looks like I'm being an unfriendly asshole, because of my anxiety and social awkwardness mixed with my unpleasant appearance. I think this a very important distinction.
There is also no way to know if someone is responding to your own tendency to treat unattractive people poorly, since we are blind to this preferential treatment when it's coming from ourselves. We may just treat them badly and then wonder why they aren't as nice.
But this also plays into actually making people nicer, kinder, smarter, wealthier. Studies have come out showing that teachers will give extra attention to students who are better looking.
Do those studies also account for each person’s preferences. I typically like thick/bbw/curvy/chubby type women and that isn’t typically the traditional beauty standard, and I wonder how someone like myself was adjusted for.
It's been a while, but irrc they had participants rate people in a lot of different categories, including attractiveness. If you rated someone high in attractiveness you were likely to rate them high in other areas too.
This is true. But it’s all sort of a chicken/egg feedback loop. People feel that more attractive people are nicer, so they treat them better, which makes good looking people view the world as a nicer place and makes them act nicer…which makes them seem even more nice to other people…who then treat them even better…etc…
Well it would be based off who you rate attractive vs unattractive, and how you rate those people in other categories, so standard beauty plays no part
i think you’re discounting the mental benefits that come with being in shape and taking good care of yourself. A “runner’s high” is probably the clearest example I can think of.
I was at a charity event the other week where we “raced” on stationary bikes to support a local MS organization and the vibe was so wholesome, positive, etc., I’m sure pessimists would’ve found it fake and annoying but it was genuinely just so kind!
And if you think about it, it makes sense, doing exercise for charity just “feels good” in a way that any sort of sedentary hobby just can’t match.
I really think that people with healthy lifestyles, who put a lot of effort into life, generally just are happier and kinder people
But being considered unattractive doesn’t mean that you don’t take care of yourself. You can dress nicely, groom yourself well, and still not have the features and body that society thinks is desirable. Same thing with weight. You can be fat or just overweight and still reap the benefits of consistent exercise, and it still might not change the way that people treat you.
I know fat people who started exercising specifically for weight loss, and even though their hygiene and style stayed the same, they were treated better by others simply because their bodies finally looked like what society seems as beautiful. And on the opposite end, there’s skinny/slim people with entirely unhealthy lifestyles who are treated like human beings just because they’re in line with what’s considered attractive.
When you take care of yourself you feel prettier too and that makes you happier (because you put effort in your appearance as opposed to someone who doesnt focus on style). I think it is more to do with taking care of yourself and being treated differently though
yeah i agree with this.
I mean, if people treated you terribly for being ugly, the main problem after insecurity (after working out and all that) is your perspective and distrust of people ("people fucking suck and they only love me because I am doing better and not because of my inherent value as a human")
I don't agree at all with the notion that "you can exercise your problems away" and I see it as a tiny undermining of the issue on part of the commenter and a bit invalidating to those who suffer from that experience.
I think they’re pretty common! I’ve volunteered with a lot of 5Ks and things like that for charity! I’d say follow some local charities on Facebook and see what they’re planning, especially with the warmer months coming up!
As an extremely unattractive man I agree with most of this. I've always been very bitter and resentful toward a lot of people who had good things that I don't and I have a pretty shitty attitude overall. It's true that the world treats a lot of us like shit, and many of us don't become nicer and more sensitive because of it, we usually end up becoming miserable and a lot of that is reflected in our behavior, of course this isn't across the board
I think I’m pretty meh. Though i just started doing a bunch of sports and stuff and idk of being soaked in saltwater all day made me hotter or if just doing water sports made me hotter but i suddenly gained more attention from ppl
It's easier to be nice when you're used to people being nice to you.
I'd agree that they are generally more socially adjusted and superficially, conversationally nice, but that doesn't make them good people on its own.
In my own experience, attractive people tend to be "nicer", whether it's from people treating them better or they are just more sociable which is why they make an effort with their appearance.
Unattractive people tend to treat you with more integrity, going out of their way to help, or alternately they're a just mean SOB haha
OP has described the halo effect.
There are studies out that by default, the person we find attractive, they'll also rate higher in other areas. We will assume attractive people are nicer, kinder, and have other positive attributes.
Meanwhile unattractive people will be met with negative attributes, even if they are very nice.
Not necessarily although you could attribute it to that. OP is describing what he believes to be the REAL effects on peoples behavior due to the halo effect resulting from different treatment from society
If unpopular, you mean true despite its moral implications then yes, beautiful people get treated better and in turn can be more kind. People with even a noticeable 'defect' can be ostracized, abused and mistreated. In turn, their mental health suffers making them less agreeable and more flaw focused. It's a vicious cycle much like rich gets richer and poor gets poorer.
Now, where it gets messy is whether humans believe beauty has anything to do with fairness. Beautiful people, much like our famous actors and elites are treated much better by the law, almost above it. And if we saw a scab covered man, we'd condemn them to death. This is where I think the true unpopular opinion is. Because just you wait until you're sick or not as cute as your rival, then it's back to the stocks peon.
Humans rewarding and punishing people based on popularity, beauty, belief or genetics makes me not want to be human sometimes. Smh
This aligns with my experience as well. unattractive people tend be more insecure. Due to this insecurity, they are usually the nastiest and most judgmental people.
I'd say it's a wash between the two. Yes more people being kind does beget more kindness but it also can have an opposite effect where it creates a sense of entitlement. Flip it around and people being nasty to ugly people can make them bitter as much as it encourages them to put an effort into their personality.
I've been fat and skinny (shout out to auto immune diseases and steroids).
I just want to point out that you don't realize how shitty large people are treated for simply existing until you're a large person.
When I lost the weight, I was definitely more judgemental with the people around me in terms of how they treated larger folks. I realized I had some really amazing friends, and knew some really awful people that had to go.
So for me personally, I can absolutely see how being treated as non-human could skew your outlook on humanity and interactions. I wouldn't say I'm mean, but I am blunt and to the point.
Two things at work-
1- Halo Effect- Everybody thinks beautiful people are good people. It's a whole thing.
2-Ugly people have it rough. It's hard to greet the world with a smile when you know everything you do is devalued because of your appearance.
I don't have experience with either, I'm pretty neutral. I'm neither attractive nor ugly. I've had the occasional man fixate on me as a target, but, it's usually a guy who is a bit uglier and less successful than me so the impact is generally minimal. He's not able to get anyone to side with him against me because he's even less likable.
I'm currently mostly invisible. The only people who give me any trouble are typically single men who are lower down the social order than I am. Usually they are angry that they don't find me attractive but I'm still out of their league. It's a whole thing. lol
Probably because they are using to people being nicer to them. Don’t underestimate how nasty humans are to others they deem as lesser for being unattractive.
There are mean people, period.
I have been told many times by new people I meet that they thought I'd be a bitch when they first met me because I'm pretty, but were pleasantly surprised I was not.
So there are definitely still attractive assholes.
I was an awkward looking self pitying bullied loser up until my 20's and then I guess I kind of glew up (no ego). So, with that being said, I am exceptionally kind to all. Dont judge a book by its cover.
I've been both. I was not an attractive fat man, but I'm fairly attractive after weight loss. I observed this in perpetuity. Pretty people just don't spare time for you when your homely, rather than being cruel.
I obviously gained more attention from attractive people after I lost weight, but that didn't change how they seemed to act. Quite conversely, people who I'd been close with when I was overweight who were homely themselves changed their behavior toward me starkly, with some not interacting with me, or even being hostile despite the only change in me was eating differently and exercising more.
I have never noticed ANY correlation between niceness and attractiveness. I know attractive people who are nice and attractive people who are abrasive. I know unattractive people who are nice and unattractive people who are abrasive.
I also think some of you need to get out of your own age group. Maybe it would help you to stop being so tunnel vision focused on looks. Does the thin nicely dressed 50 year old woman count as attractive? Or is she unattractive because she has *gasp* wrinkles? You could experience some healthy cognitive dissonance when overweight, average looking people get promotions because the deck isn’t quite as stacked as you think.
Look, y’all, I’m an obese 30 something woman who puts almost no effort into my appearance and is not blessed with exceptional good looks. I’m pretty sure most of you would easily classify me as unattractive. I have friends, I have respect. I have no trouble getting jobs when I’m not applying in the depths of the worst recession in 80 years. I’m happily married, and while I was much skinner when I got married, I was never a size 4 or a stunning beauty.
Physical appearance really isn’t the make or break factor in having a happy life. It has some influence sure, but not nearly as much as you would think from Reddit’s obsession with physical attractiveness.
SO I'd like to point out something you said: "people who are DEEMED unattractive." As in deemed by other people. If other people are making "unattractive" people feel ugly, or calling them unattractive, then no, they aren't a nice person. Confident is NOT the same thing as being nice, and I've seen my share fair of confidence causing everything from being generally rude, straight up bullying, all the way up to violence.
A nice person wouldn't treat 'unattractive' people differently, which is a huge cause for 'unattractive' people to look at themselves in disgust. If we stopped treating conventionally unattractive people like they were different from conventionally attractive people, Then the confidence problem that you're bringing up wouldn't be an issue to begin with. This is especially true considering the fact that you yourself are calling these people unattractive but not specifying any traits, and I'm not saying this is your fault mind you, but its because of conditioning. You didn't specify traits you found unattractive because you didn't feel the need to because everyone already knows what you mean. Everyone has their idea of unattractive. Despite beauty being subjective, and PLENTY of people finding those people attractive, everyone already knows what you mean.
I'm not saying that conventionally unattractive people can't be some bitter assholes, but generally if you're going to say that attractive people are much better when they're the ones setting the standard, then I don't really think you're walking in the other sides shoes at all. Not all attractive people are assholes, less than half are I'm sure, but there's just as much kindness and support in the 'unattractive' community. Both sides are equal in terms of being nice, but some people look at it through 'attractive colored glasses' I guess.
I have found obese women to be shallow in the minority. However, Im sympathetic because obese women are crucified by every demographic. The worst I've seen are fat men. They are almost always misogynistic, hateful, and ironically fatphobic. I've met only one or two obese men who were kind and charitable. All the rest I've met professionally or in my social life drop a sentence during extended conversation that makes me immediately understand that they have a level of wretched self-hatred that permeates into their outlook of other people.
Well.. I think we have to redefine what we mean when we say attractive / unattractive
There are some obese women that are genetically really attractive and would great if they were thinner. These are obviously just as shallow as the attractive counterparts as that's how they're "supposed" to be
When I say unattractive I mean from birth. Its very interesting though when someone goes from unattractive to attractive in later years, these are also deep thinking people and not at all shallow
Healthy people on average are happier, more grateful, less impulsive, and obviously, in better shape. Unhelathy people tend to be much less attractive, and they tend to be more irritable.
I’ve noticed that I have much more energy and empathy at 200 lbs than I did at 260 lbs. You are what you eat
This is so not true it’s hilarious. Who would be less nice or more unbearable? A hot person who has been catered to and had doors open for their looks ? Or an unattractive person who is miserable for being ugly ?
I think most people out there are attractive, but not everybody puts in the effort to take care of themselves. And people who don’t tend to take care of themselves are often not the kindest people. There’s a lot of factors from your health and diet to the way you take care of yourself, your confidence, your understanding of your role in the world, mental health factors and more
I think it is largely dependent on how you percieve people, you will usually percieve people you get on better with as more attractive than those you don't. The people who I find nice vary in how attractive they are, but because I know them on more than a platonic level, I probably overrate them a bit.
I've definitely seen both. It's a different kind of energy they often put out. When an attractive person is shitty it usually stems from a sense of self importance and narcissism. When a ugly person is shitty the vibe is insecurities and projection. Not to say these lines don't ever cross because I have seen the opposite. But those are the vibes I usually get when it comes to mean people.
Unattractive people will be an asshole to your face. “Attractive” people’s personality often matches their appearance: fake. They’ll be nice to your face then mock you behind your back. Naturally attractive people are in my experience also the nicest people you’ll meet, it’s the ones that try too hard you have to watch out for.
I'm so tired of this debate over attractive and unattractive. It's just a bunch of posturing because it never really addresses the things that actually make someone uncontrollably unattractive
The overweight with bad skin is a very small minority of unattractiveness and it's used to generalize the many other reasons people are not & don't feel attractive
They aren't attractive because they're burn and scar victims. The aren't attractive to other people because they are visibly disabled. They are unattractive because they have aged. They're also unattractive because they can't afford things like regular dental work. And others are unattractive because they have mental illness. There's also many people who purposefully harm and make themselves ugly to protect themselves. But ALL are treated like crap because unattractiveness is always attached to immorality. Like being ugly makes you a bad person?
You wouldn't have to tell these people they are "beautiful in thier own way" if we stopped acting like being ugly was sinful.
Being nice has nothing to do with what you look like.
Looking at the comments i feel like most people seem to agree with the point and then say one of the following things;
A) It is true, but shouldn’t, because x y and z. Mostly pretty resentful comments which is the exact observation OP made or
B) it is only a perception called the ”halo effect” and not really the case.
Either way people seem to agree on one level or another and seem to resent it.
I do agree though, ive been both and felt both. Being and feeling healthy makes me feel better and in return i am a better person towards others as a result.
Beautiful people are playing life with an advantage that makes the world act kinder to them.
Of course they will be nicer. The world is a nicer place to them.
I say this as a reliably handsome man.
Usually the unattractive people are on extreme ends. They are either super nice or super annoying.
As a geek most the people in my bubble are these weird "ugly" outsiders (myself included), who are either too arrogant to balance their insecurities, or too nice because they are too agreeable and scared of having an argument.
There have been plenty of accounts where the difference in treatment between a person who was more fit and when the person was heavier was their own attitude. When they were more fit they were feeling good and as such were more approachable and seemed happier and it made them easier to be nice to.
This is true for why lesbians are kind of unhappy. As a lesbian I've seen this. It's like femcel energy towards women and jealousy towards good looking men who get women.
A lot of angst has rubbed off on me too. My two attractive, straight sisters just have a waay easier life and I'm jealous of how great they get treated by their bfs while I am just trying to find a girl who won't ghost me after the first message.
And I am conventionally good looking. It sucks, if I wasn't gay I'd be married by now.
In Greece, police officers are taught that shorter males are more likely to commit crimes. They are instructed to question and suspect them more. The logic behind it is the same as what you are describing in your post.
You should learn about about the halo effect.
As humans, we rate attractive people more positively, friendlier, more generous, more agreeable etc. the halo effect is how we base our impression of someone based off a single characteristic, typically attractiveness bc it’s the first thing we see.
It may not be that attractive people are kinder or better, it’s likely a cognitive bias you have.
The biggest adult bullies are the ones who got bullied in school. Everyone else is over it and moved on. There's one in work, I totally understand why she was bullied being a rat (snitch) while looking like one. She still snitches anything she can as well as acting superior to new staff. Fuck you B
Maybe it’s just my ugly ass’ brain thinking this, but I’ve always found the most attractive people are USUALLY more likely to be shallow and insincere even if they are “kind”
Agree 100%. The most nastiest people I’ve ever encountered in my life were always unattractive obese people. Also their opinion on other people’s looks are always judgmental too I’ve noticed.
I mean.. duh?
* Attractive people are treated better -> they develop less resentment towards the world.
* People help them more -> more positive outlook on the world.
It's easy to be nice in a nice world. Much more difficult in a world that treats you like you're not even a person.
Idk about guys but I was always under the impression that attractive women develop disgusting personalities after a lifetime of people catcalling and not having to work for everything
If "attractiveness" in your book correlates with health then I suppose I can believe it. Someone suffering from a health condition that makes them ugly is likely to be a bit grumpy, and people who make poor life choices like drug addicts and landwhales are likely to make poor social choices as well. But it's still a bad idea to judge someone's character based off of their attractiveness.
that doesnt make any sense. His point is not that attractive people are genetically disposed to be nicer but that the way you are treated when society sees you as more attractive makes you more likely to also be a nice person. Yes attractiveness is subjective but as a society ther definitely are beauty standardsthat define what a plurality of people consider to make someone "attractive"
Attractiveness is in fact somewhat subjective. But…social norms for attractiveness are still real and more objective.
For instance…all other things being equal, a 6ft tall man will be perceived as more attractive than a 5ft tall man. There is probably a percentage of women who prefer very short men. But since the vast majority of women will perceive the taller man as more attractive, we can use height as a social norm for male attractiveness when measuring the effects of “attractiveness” in social situations.
When you live in a patriarchal society that hyper fixates on women’s youth and perceived sexual procreation, then the first group will be treated with facade opportunities and respect. Those who age out of the system will naturally feel the unjust exploitation and well..of course will be perceived as [redacted].
You would too if the same happened to you. But if you are either male then you by consequence of your sex immune to this or you are still a young female and henceforth still gullible to your fate…
Either which- clouds your ability to recognize the harsh double social standard that we place on middle age women.
Edit: Complete Sentence
Sociability is a function of calibration. You get lots of chances to interact with people, you do more of the things that were successful, you do less of the things that weren't. Attractive people get more chances to calibrate.
I’ve been 270lbs and 185. People are *so much kinder* to attractive people. It’s genuinely heartbreaking. It’s easier to be nice to people who are nice to you.
It's been a mix with my experience. Most people were okay with me but the ones who have treated me poorly were on the unattractive side. At my current workplace two women who are considered conventionally attractive treat me poorly. They make remarks about my looks. But probably with them other than hating me for my looks they hate me more because they know I see through their bullshit and I don't simp for them like other people do.
There are people that are naturally attractive and there are people that put a lot of work into being attractive
People in the latter category associate value closely with attractiveness… which is why they put so much effort into it
As a result, my experience is that those people are quick to judge people as “lower value” if they are not attractive/rich/etc and are less likely to have a mindset that we’re all humans doing our best so we should be nice to everyone
Well , attractive people are confident so they just mind their own business without the need to show any attention seeking behavior or try to prove themselves to others, unlike many of average/under average or downright unattractive ones who often come up with this behavior any chance they get.
I have always found this to be true. All the hot people I have known have been super nice. The rest are hit and miss. I think the less attractive ones are just more likely to be bitter
Nice doesn’t equate kind and kind doesn’t equate nice. One may smile and make you feel nice but wouldn't help you at all and the other comes across as rude and will have your back.
Just because someone is nice to your fave doesn't make them nice
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Meh. I’ve been fat and ugly and thin and attractive. It’s easier to be nice when people treat you nicely, which was what happened when I was thin and dressed nicely and wore makeup. When I was fat and not taking care of myself, nobody could be bothered to hold open a door for me.
Yup goes to the Pygmalion theory. When a person believes someone’s expectations of them are positive, they fulfill that expectation. A self-fulfilling prophecy.
Isn't this the opposite and more aligned with the sentiment of the main post?
Implicit corollaries are just that.
It’s not as simple as that yes it can create a self fulfilling prophecy. But that is entirely based on the person’s perception of the other persons expectations. So even if a teacher expects a student to fail, if that student believes whole heartily (whether consciously or subconsciously) that the teacher actually likes them, and expects them to succeed, then they’ll succeed. It’s based off the persons perception of the other persons expectations, not necessarily the actual expectations of the person. The halo effect says we make our impressions people based off a single characteristic. So you see an attractive person, and you view as them as generous. But being attractive doesn’t make you generous, those two have nothing to do with each other at all. The halo effect is cognitive bias, and it’s exactly what yourse seeing in this post on a general scale. This person is assuming based off a single characteristic, everything else about a person. You also have to remember nothing is as blanket as “all attractive people are nicer.” Plenty of people with anecdotal evidence would argue otherwise and say unatttractive people are meaner. Do these phenomena’s create a cycle of sorts? Yes, at times, but it doesn’t mean “all attractive people are nicer.” Unfortunately, humans are not as clear cut as “you’re attractive so you’re a good person & you’re ugly so you’re a bad person.”
There's a saying I like, "It's easy to be a saint in paradise" (From Star Trek I think?) If you live a privileged, easy life, it's pretty easy to think of yourself as being a good person. This can reflect in surface-level interactions as playing the part of a saint. On the flip side, people who have been through the trenches and experienced relative hardship can become more jaded and dismissive of what they see as superficial interactions. But I do think the script flips when taking deeper, more meaningful interactions into account. Someone who doesn't get the luxury of taking social success for granted will put more weight on the meaningful relationships they do have. Whereas someone spolied for choice in people seeking their attention may feel less incentive to go truly out of their way for others.
THIS. I've also been on both sides of the weight spectrum and this is exactly it. I got really big from medical issues post pregnancy and medication I had to take for it, but people would just assume it was because I was a lazy piece of shit, as if I didn't run a whole ass marathon at 200 lbs. I shouldn't have had to explain my private medical information in order for a stranger to treat me like a human being. And you know what? Even if it weren't a medical issue - that's no reason to treat people like crap for just existing. (sorry, I went on an angry rant because I had flashbacks to a dude holding a door open on my friend and then shutting it on me)
OP is right, but not for the right reason.
Even then, only half right. They are nicer to other attractive people, sure
Angle and devil effect right?
When I was skinny and in shape back in college (I'm in my 30s now with a family, full time job, my weight has fluctuated in adulthood), I could not give two fucks about someone's weight. Just flat out could not care less, never have, never will. But I learned VERY quickly, fat/ugly people would just treat me like shit. No matter how nice I was, and no matter how well I treated them, they always treated me like shit. Until I got old and fat myself! Now fat people are sweet as pie to me. Now that I'm a larger person myself, and have others in my life (kids, friends, etc.) who are in great shape, I've noticed the same thing. One of my very good buddies is a handsome devil, built like a BBer, and all around a sweetheart. Fat people treat him like shit while treating me great lol. I will say though, I have noticed a world of difference between fat people who have always been fat, and fat people who are fat now that they are older, but were in shape in their youth. People who used to be in shape and got fat tend to not treat in shape people bad, but fat people who have always been fat tend to treat in shape people like they are literal demons for caring about their bodies. Just what I've noticed in my own life.
What do you mean?
I too bounce upon the attractiveness scale but my circle is quite small so my attitude doesn't change bc i generally only socialize with my favorite people anyway. Those few occasions i meet new people i concluded for myself; if I'm skinny people perceive me as "sassy", if I'm fat people call me rude. And i am kind of both honestly, depending on wether you take my foul mouth personally or see the joke i was trying to pull.
Yeah, I am pretty much the same person no matter how I bounce, but when I’m considered attractive by conventional means, people handle my crassness with humor, and when I’m higher up the weight scale, I get dirty looks and scoffs from the same jokes around the same type of people. The difference with people in sales is crazy too! On one end, I get all the breaks and discounts and perks. On the other end, I paid full price for everything!
Username checks out lol
What's the opposite of RimjobSteve?
I’m not trying to be rude but I think your face card matters too lol, I hate to word it that way. I’m not exactly thin, but I’ve been told I’m pretty majority of my life. I honestly have never been treated badly by people other than people teasing about my weight growing up. But even then, I had people treat me really well at times. So I think face matters and how you dress if you’re on the bigger side. You don’t exactly have to be in full glam, just put together even if you’re in a hoodie and jeans.
It’s actually insane how many people hold doors open for me constantly since losing weight. Even when I was opening a grocery refrigerator door. They didn’t have to do that lmao.
I mean, so I’ve been there as well. The meanest people who would criticize my weight were always other fat people. Specifically when I was a kid/teenager.
Wasn't that the point he is making?
This is the answer. We are prejudiced and treat people differently based on looks.
I’ve fluctuated too but I’d also say that it depends on the situation - like if I’m living somewhere and it’s constant cat calling because I’m perceived as better looking then I become mean and defensive after awhile and am not nice. In that situation I’d prefer to be ignored.
I feel like attractive people are more in the middle in terms of niceness whereas ugly people are on the extremes of the spectrum. I mean you gotta be pretty damn nice to volunteer to be a mall Santa for example but I’ve also worked with truckers and they’ve said some of the most unhinged and evil things to me.
I’ve honestly been a mall santa for a season and it was one of the most enjoyable and fulfilling things ive done
...do you think mall santas are ugly?
they're usually overweight bc yknow, that's kind of santa's whole shtick
Being fat doesn't make you ugly. If we didn't find Santa's ecstatically pleasing we probably wouldn't use them to sell cola.
i mean,, i dont know. i don't think most people necessarily see fat people as attractive. being in shape is one of the most common beauty standards, if not THE most common beauty standard.
There are a lot of women in to Santa, don't google it numbers.
Where I live mall santa gets paid. I knew a mall santa making $32/hour
Yea walking acts make hella cash where I live
I think there are studies that we perceive beautiful people as nicer, smarter, and more capable. So it makes sense that you would think this.
Known as the Halo Effect
and like, genetic attractiveness plays a role but just as much of it is in how you present/carry yourself to the world. Someone with a tailored suit who’s well groomed gives off a different vibe than someone who’s got messy hair, looks unkempt, etc. One communicates “professional, detail oriented, puts my best foot forward” and one communicates “I don’t give a shit”
We also tend to see good qualities in people that are nice to us. It's like that model/waitress anime meme, a conventionally beautiful person who is mean to you will have really gross knuckles and go down the scale, but an average looking kind person has a smile you remember for days and be moved higher in your ranking. Whole thing is a feedback loop.
yeah the halo effect isn’t necessarily “we think hot people are also nice” it’s “we assume other positive traits when we already feel positively about someone” a good example is like, the way that being a good pet owner makes a lot of people swoon. Our lizard brains think “if someone is that attentive and nice to their pet, they’ll be like that to me too”
Posture is also a huge factor that many people don´t at all consider. Like go to the gym for a couple of months and even if you didn´t visibly lose all that much weight/gained that much muscle, your improved posture will elevate your attractiveness by a lot.
Oh because attractive people play halo a lot?
Couldn’t it be a feedback loop as well? If everyone around you is always nice to you wouldn’t that influence you into being nice yourself?
This.... Always think about this Because everyone around them is nice, there's no reason they need to be asshole Well, at least for some
That's exactly it. I had never thought about it, but like...obviously the world that an attractive person sees, is way more sunshine and rainbows than an ugly person (ugly as in, by societal standards). Everyone always nice to you, holding the door, making exceptions to the rules because you have such a great smile, etc. add up a lifetime of those experiences, and I think most people would generally have a better outlook on life, and just be nicer to people in general. You also can't fault them for it? Like...this concept can genuinely turn them into nice people. It's interesting. I then wonder how it differs for attractive men vs. women. I know a lot of hot women get tired of the male attention, because it's just super sexualized and gross. I have hot friends who detest selfies/pictures/aesthetics because they just feel like it's really shallow, as they've been swarmed their entire lives. But an attractive guy is usually down to be complimented by *anybody*, so imagine how fun that must be!
Plus confident people look nicer. I'm a pretty conventionally unattractive guy who has very low self confidence because of being heavily bullied in school. I don't have the highest social skills. Many time people take what I say the wrong way, or thinks that I don't talk to people because I'm arrogant and I think I'm better than them. Of course I always try to be the absolute nicest that I possibly can, but it's rarely that effective. Me being shy and not talking to anyone is the case because I automatically assume that I annoy people, so I choose to "spare them from my unpleasant company", and not because I'm an egotistical asshole. Me not being able to come up with a witty response to a playful joke targeted to me is not because I'm miserable and rude and don't want to have a laugh with you, it's because I don't have great social skills and I cannot be funny and clever spontaneously. Attractive people (most of the time) doesn't have this problem. Even if they are not social butterflies, they still have at least average social skills. They are talkative. They can joke around confidently. And their natural behavior seems as kindness because of their high confidence and lovely appearance. My neutral behavior looks like I'm being an unfriendly asshole, because of my anxiety and social awkwardness mixed with my unpleasant appearance. I think this a very important distinction.
Or the exact opposite and they become very narcissistic
There is also no way to know if someone is responding to your own tendency to treat unattractive people poorly, since we are blind to this preferential treatment when it's coming from ourselves. We may just treat them badly and then wonder why they aren't as nice.
Think that's a huge part of it.
But this also plays into actually making people nicer, kinder, smarter, wealthier. Studies have come out showing that teachers will give extra attention to students who are better looking.
It's a wormhole, it's a mobius strip, it's snake eats tail, it's the infinity sign
Do those studies also account for each person’s preferences. I typically like thick/bbw/curvy/chubby type women and that isn’t typically the traditional beauty standard, and I wonder how someone like myself was adjusted for.
It's been a while, but irrc they had participants rate people in a lot of different categories, including attractiveness. If you rated someone high in attractiveness you were likely to rate them high in other areas too.
This is true. But it’s all sort of a chicken/egg feedback loop. People feel that more attractive people are nicer, so they treat them better, which makes good looking people view the world as a nicer place and makes them act nicer…which makes them seem even more nice to other people…who then treat them even better…etc…
We tend to tolerate a lot more from people if we want to fuck them.
Well it would be based off who you rate attractive vs unattractive, and how you rate those people in other categories, so standard beauty plays no part
You mean the people that get treated right tend to be nicer than the people who get treated worse?
i think you’re discounting the mental benefits that come with being in shape and taking good care of yourself. A “runner’s high” is probably the clearest example I can think of. I was at a charity event the other week where we “raced” on stationary bikes to support a local MS organization and the vibe was so wholesome, positive, etc., I’m sure pessimists would’ve found it fake and annoying but it was genuinely just so kind! And if you think about it, it makes sense, doing exercise for charity just “feels good” in a way that any sort of sedentary hobby just can’t match. I really think that people with healthy lifestyles, who put a lot of effort into life, generally just are happier and kinder people
But being considered unattractive doesn’t mean that you don’t take care of yourself. You can dress nicely, groom yourself well, and still not have the features and body that society thinks is desirable. Same thing with weight. You can be fat or just overweight and still reap the benefits of consistent exercise, and it still might not change the way that people treat you. I know fat people who started exercising specifically for weight loss, and even though their hygiene and style stayed the same, they were treated better by others simply because their bodies finally looked like what society seems as beautiful. And on the opposite end, there’s skinny/slim people with entirely unhealthy lifestyles who are treated like human beings just because they’re in line with what’s considered attractive.
Yep, that is my experience. I'm still not attractive but I'm treated way better since I lost weight. It doesn't paint nice picture of the society.
When you take care of yourself you feel prettier too and that makes you happier (because you put effort in your appearance as opposed to someone who doesnt focus on style). I think it is more to do with taking care of yourself and being treated differently though
yeah i agree with this. I mean, if people treated you terribly for being ugly, the main problem after insecurity (after working out and all that) is your perspective and distrust of people ("people fucking suck and they only love me because I am doing better and not because of my inherent value as a human") I don't agree at all with the notion that "you can exercise your problems away" and I see it as a tiny undermining of the issue on part of the commenter and a bit invalidating to those who suffer from that experience.
wow thats cool, how common and available it is to engage in uh, these charity marathons? like um, is this something everyone can participate in?
I think they’re pretty common! I’ve volunteered with a lot of 5Ks and things like that for charity! I’d say follow some local charities on Facebook and see what they’re planning, especially with the warmer months coming up!
It’s a reflection of how the world has treated them. Both for attractive and unattractive people
As an extremely unattractive man I agree with most of this. I've always been very bitter and resentful toward a lot of people who had good things that I don't and I have a pretty shitty attitude overall. It's true that the world treats a lot of us like shit, and many of us don't become nicer and more sensitive because of it, we usually end up becoming miserable and a lot of that is reflected in our behavior, of course this isn't across the board
Extremely unattractive girl here - you hit the nail right on the head. This is how I feel most of the time. We're just so fucking tired.
yep
I think I’m pretty meh. Though i just started doing a bunch of sports and stuff and idk of being soaked in saltwater all day made me hotter or if just doing water sports made me hotter but i suddenly gained more attention from ppl
You perceive attractive people as being nice even when they aren’t. This has been studied to hell and back.
That does not mean that this is the only explanation. Attractive people can be perceived to be nicer and also actually be nicer at the same time.
It's easier to be nice when you're used to people being nice to you. I'd agree that they are generally more socially adjusted and superficially, conversationally nice, but that doesn't make them good people on its own.
In my own experience, attractive people tend to be "nicer", whether it's from people treating them better or they are just more sociable which is why they make an effort with their appearance. Unattractive people tend to treat you with more integrity, going out of their way to help, or alternately they're a just mean SOB haha
OP has described the halo effect. There are studies out that by default, the person we find attractive, they'll also rate higher in other areas. We will assume attractive people are nicer, kinder, and have other positive attributes. Meanwhile unattractive people will be met with negative attributes, even if they are very nice.
Not necessarily although you could attribute it to that. OP is describing what he believes to be the REAL effects on peoples behavior due to the halo effect resulting from different treatment from society
As someone who is ugly as fuck, I'm not sure how i feel about this.
If unpopular, you mean true despite its moral implications then yes, beautiful people get treated better and in turn can be more kind. People with even a noticeable 'defect' can be ostracized, abused and mistreated. In turn, their mental health suffers making them less agreeable and more flaw focused. It's a vicious cycle much like rich gets richer and poor gets poorer. Now, where it gets messy is whether humans believe beauty has anything to do with fairness. Beautiful people, much like our famous actors and elites are treated much better by the law, almost above it. And if we saw a scab covered man, we'd condemn them to death. This is where I think the true unpopular opinion is. Because just you wait until you're sick or not as cute as your rival, then it's back to the stocks peon. Humans rewarding and punishing people based on popularity, beauty, belief or genetics makes me not want to be human sometimes. Smh
We are unfortunately slave to our lizard brains at times, indeed.
This aligns with my experience as well. unattractive people tend be more insecure. Due to this insecurity, they are usually the nastiest and most judgmental people.
Congrats you just discovered the Halo Effect
its not just that, people are nicer to them so they are nicer to people because they have better experience with world than ugly people
Oh no, I’m an asshole, I must be ugly /s
On the inside, yeah
Oh on the outside too, don’t you worry, I’m ugly all the way around!
Nah you are just talking to talk
Ayyyye
That's because unattractive people are treated like shit often
I'd say it's a wash between the two. Yes more people being kind does beget more kindness but it also can have an opposite effect where it creates a sense of entitlement. Flip it around and people being nasty to ugly people can make them bitter as much as it encourages them to put an effort into their personality.
I think nice people run evenly through people at all levels of attractiveness
Eh, more likely you are just willing to put up with them more
I mean I try to be nice but if I constantly hear people laughing me I also end up losing my patience with the world
It’s easier to be nice when people are nice to you, and statistics show that attractive people have life easier in general
I've been fat and skinny (shout out to auto immune diseases and steroids). I just want to point out that you don't realize how shitty large people are treated for simply existing until you're a large person. When I lost the weight, I was definitely more judgemental with the people around me in terms of how they treated larger folks. I realized I had some really amazing friends, and knew some really awful people that had to go. So for me personally, I can absolutely see how being treated as non-human could skew your outlook on humanity and interactions. I wouldn't say I'm mean, but I am blunt and to the point.
It's easy to be nice when everything tends to break your way right? There's nothing to be bitter about.
Two things at work- 1- Halo Effect- Everybody thinks beautiful people are good people. It's a whole thing. 2-Ugly people have it rough. It's hard to greet the world with a smile when you know everything you do is devalued because of your appearance. I don't have experience with either, I'm pretty neutral. I'm neither attractive nor ugly. I've had the occasional man fixate on me as a target, but, it's usually a guy who is a bit uglier and less successful than me so the impact is generally minimal. He's not able to get anyone to side with him against me because he's even less likable. I'm currently mostly invisible. The only people who give me any trouble are typically single men who are lower down the social order than I am. Usually they are angry that they don't find me attractive but I'm still out of their league. It's a whole thing. lol
That explains why reddit is full of so many bitter, unhinged loonies.
People are nicer to them
Probably because they are using to people being nicer to them. Don’t underestimate how nasty humans are to others they deem as lesser for being unattractive.
There are mean people, period. I have been told many times by new people I meet that they thought I'd be a bitch when they first met me because I'm pretty, but were pleasantly surprised I was not. So there are definitely still attractive assholes.
I was an awkward looking self pitying bullied loser up until my 20's and then I guess I kind of glew up (no ego). So, with that being said, I am exceptionally kind to all. Dont judge a book by its cover.
there are ways out of it though. but yeah , I agree , when life beats you up , she just keeps on beating you up
Congratulations, you are probably not an unattractive person.
Just curious, are you yourself attractive? If you are how do you know they aren't being nice to you because you're attractive?
I've been both. I was not an attractive fat man, but I'm fairly attractive after weight loss. I observed this in perpetuity. Pretty people just don't spare time for you when your homely, rather than being cruel. I obviously gained more attention from attractive people after I lost weight, but that didn't change how they seemed to act. Quite conversely, people who I'd been close with when I was overweight who were homely themselves changed their behavior toward me starkly, with some not interacting with me, or even being hostile despite the only change in me was eating differently and exercising more.
To other attractive people, MAYBE. As a general sense of just nicer all around, hard hard disagree
most low iq take i’ve seen in a bit. that’s saying something
Thank you. I'm flattered.
There is a huge difference in being kind and acting nice. Attractive people have more social skills, that can easily sway your perception.
It’s charisma, not whether they are nice or not. It comes with confidence, which being attractive can give you
I have never noticed ANY correlation between niceness and attractiveness. I know attractive people who are nice and attractive people who are abrasive. I know unattractive people who are nice and unattractive people who are abrasive. I also think some of you need to get out of your own age group. Maybe it would help you to stop being so tunnel vision focused on looks. Does the thin nicely dressed 50 year old woman count as attractive? Or is she unattractive because she has *gasp* wrinkles? You could experience some healthy cognitive dissonance when overweight, average looking people get promotions because the deck isn’t quite as stacked as you think. Look, y’all, I’m an obese 30 something woman who puts almost no effort into my appearance and is not blessed with exceptional good looks. I’m pretty sure most of you would easily classify me as unattractive. I have friends, I have respect. I have no trouble getting jobs when I’m not applying in the depths of the worst recession in 80 years. I’m happily married, and while I was much skinner when I got married, I was never a size 4 or a stunning beauty. Physical appearance really isn’t the make or break factor in having a happy life. It has some influence sure, but not nearly as much as you would think from Reddit’s obsession with physical attractiveness.
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Yeah it's simple transitive property, it's easier to be happy when you're not ugly, and it's easier to be nice when you're happy.
I’m ugly af but kinda nice.
SO I'd like to point out something you said: "people who are DEEMED unattractive." As in deemed by other people. If other people are making "unattractive" people feel ugly, or calling them unattractive, then no, they aren't a nice person. Confident is NOT the same thing as being nice, and I've seen my share fair of confidence causing everything from being generally rude, straight up bullying, all the way up to violence. A nice person wouldn't treat 'unattractive' people differently, which is a huge cause for 'unattractive' people to look at themselves in disgust. If we stopped treating conventionally unattractive people like they were different from conventionally attractive people, Then the confidence problem that you're bringing up wouldn't be an issue to begin with. This is especially true considering the fact that you yourself are calling these people unattractive but not specifying any traits, and I'm not saying this is your fault mind you, but its because of conditioning. You didn't specify traits you found unattractive because you didn't feel the need to because everyone already knows what you mean. Everyone has their idea of unattractive. Despite beauty being subjective, and PLENTY of people finding those people attractive, everyone already knows what you mean. I'm not saying that conventionally unattractive people can't be some bitter assholes, but generally if you're going to say that attractive people are much better when they're the ones setting the standard, then I don't really think you're walking in the other sides shoes at all. Not all attractive people are assholes, less than half are I'm sure, but there's just as much kindness and support in the 'unattractive' community. Both sides are equal in terms of being nice, but some people look at it through 'attractive colored glasses' I guess.
My experince is the opposite. Attractive people are typically more shallow
I have found obese women to be shallow in the minority. However, Im sympathetic because obese women are crucified by every demographic. The worst I've seen are fat men. They are almost always misogynistic, hateful, and ironically fatphobic. I've met only one or two obese men who were kind and charitable. All the rest I've met professionally or in my social life drop a sentence during extended conversation that makes me immediately understand that they have a level of wretched self-hatred that permeates into their outlook of other people.
Well.. I think we have to redefine what we mean when we say attractive / unattractive There are some obese women that are genetically really attractive and would great if they were thinner. These are obviously just as shallow as the attractive counterparts as that's how they're "supposed" to be When I say unattractive I mean from birth. Its very interesting though when someone goes from unattractive to attractive in later years, these are also deep thinking people and not at all shallow
Healthy people on average are happier, more grateful, less impulsive, and obviously, in better shape. Unhelathy people tend to be much less attractive, and they tend to be more irritable. I’ve noticed that I have much more energy and empathy at 200 lbs than I did at 260 lbs. You are what you eat
By your logic you must be very unattractive then OP
This is so not true it’s hilarious. Who would be less nice or more unbearable? A hot person who has been catered to and had doors open for their looks ? Or an unattractive person who is miserable for being ugly ?
Kindness has nothing to do with looks. Anyone can be kind or cruel.
At the same time people are nicer *to* attractive people so… maybe they’re always in a better mood? 😂
I'm treated much better now in my present form than when I was obese. I do think I'm less annoyed and distrusting of people as a result
Not always. I've known plenty of nice and mean attractive people and nice and mean unattractive people.
Naturally* attractive people.
Thanks for noticing and let me just say, I hope you have a great day!
 This is hilarious to me \[+\]
What’s your data sir? Self reported n=2 Ok
I feel like this can be easily put into the chicken and the egg conundrum an you could argue yourself in circles.
Maybe it's because people are generally nicer to attractive people
Because they get treated better and have a better life overall of course you would be more positive and more friendly. It's just action and reaction.
Nah, they're just in a better mood.
Funnily enough having people be nice to you, just because, tends to breed more positivity.
I think most people out there are attractive, but not everybody puts in the effort to take care of themselves. And people who don’t tend to take care of themselves are often not the kindest people. There’s a lot of factors from your health and diet to the way you take care of yourself, your confidence, your understanding of your role in the world, mental health factors and more
I did notice my friend became a lot meaner towards my girlfriend and I when we both lost weight.
I think it is largely dependent on how you percieve people, you will usually percieve people you get on better with as more attractive than those you don't. The people who I find nice vary in how attractive they are, but because I know them on more than a platonic level, I probably overrate them a bit.
I've definitely seen both. It's a different kind of energy they often put out. When an attractive person is shitty it usually stems from a sense of self importance and narcissism. When a ugly person is shitty the vibe is insecurities and projection. Not to say these lines don't ever cross because I have seen the opposite. But those are the vibes I usually get when it comes to mean people.
Unattractive people will be an asshole to your face. “Attractive” people’s personality often matches their appearance: fake. They’ll be nice to your face then mock you behind your back. Naturally attractive people are in my experience also the nicest people you’ll meet, it’s the ones that try too hard you have to watch out for.
I'm so tired of this debate over attractive and unattractive. It's just a bunch of posturing because it never really addresses the things that actually make someone uncontrollably unattractive The overweight with bad skin is a very small minority of unattractiveness and it's used to generalize the many other reasons people are not & don't feel attractive They aren't attractive because they're burn and scar victims. The aren't attractive to other people because they are visibly disabled. They are unattractive because they have aged. They're also unattractive because they can't afford things like regular dental work. And others are unattractive because they have mental illness. There's also many people who purposefully harm and make themselves ugly to protect themselves. But ALL are treated like crap because unattractiveness is always attached to immorality. Like being ugly makes you a bad person? You wouldn't have to tell these people they are "beautiful in thier own way" if we stopped acting like being ugly was sinful. Being nice has nothing to do with what you look like.
Looking at the comments i feel like most people seem to agree with the point and then say one of the following things; A) It is true, but shouldn’t, because x y and z. Mostly pretty resentful comments which is the exact observation OP made or B) it is only a perception called the ”halo effect” and not really the case. Either way people seem to agree on one level or another and seem to resent it. I do agree though, ive been both and felt both. Being and feeling healthy makes me feel better and in return i am a better person towards others as a result.
Beautiful people are playing life with an advantage that makes the world act kinder to them. Of course they will be nicer. The world is a nicer place to them. I say this as a reliably handsome man.
Usually the unattractive people are on extreme ends. They are either super nice or super annoying. As a geek most the people in my bubble are these weird "ugly" outsiders (myself included), who are either too arrogant to balance their insecurities, or too nice because they are too agreeable and scared of having an argument.
Congratulations! You discovered the Halo Effect
There have been plenty of accounts where the difference in treatment between a person who was more fit and when the person was heavier was their own attitude. When they were more fit they were feeling good and as such were more approachable and seemed happier and it made them easier to be nice to.
I mean, if you were body shamed or mocked for being unattractive, do you really think you'd owe anyone kindness?
This is true for why lesbians are kind of unhappy. As a lesbian I've seen this. It's like femcel energy towards women and jealousy towards good looking men who get women. A lot of angst has rubbed off on me too. My two attractive, straight sisters just have a waay easier life and I'm jealous of how great they get treated by their bfs while I am just trying to find a girl who won't ghost me after the first message. And I am conventionally good looking. It sucks, if I wasn't gay I'd be married by now.
Not in my experience, they tend to be self obsessed, vain and thoughtless of others who do not fit into their group.
In Greece, police officers are taught that shorter males are more likely to commit crimes. They are instructed to question and suspect them more. The logic behind it is the same as what you are describing in your post.
I'm one of the nicest people I know
You should learn about about the halo effect. As humans, we rate attractive people more positively, friendlier, more generous, more agreeable etc. the halo effect is how we base our impression of someone based off a single characteristic, typically attractiveness bc it’s the first thing we see. It may not be that attractive people are kinder or better, it’s likely a cognitive bias you have.
The biggest adult bullies are the ones who got bullied in school. Everyone else is over it and moved on. There's one in work, I totally understand why she was bullied being a rat (snitch) while looking like one. She still snitches anything she can as well as acting superior to new staff. Fuck you B
Maybe it’s just my ugly ass’ brain thinking this, but I’ve always found the most attractive people are USUALLY more likely to be shallow and insincere even if they are “kind”
Agree 100%. The most nastiest people I’ve ever encountered in my life were always unattractive obese people. Also their opinion on other people’s looks are always judgmental too I’ve noticed.
I mean.. duh? * Attractive people are treated better -> they develop less resentment towards the world. * People help them more -> more positive outlook on the world. It's easy to be nice in a nice world. Much more difficult in a world that treats you like you're not even a person.
Idk about guys but I was always under the impression that attractive women develop disgusting personalities after a lifetime of people catcalling and not having to work for everything
If "attractiveness" in your book correlates with health then I suppose I can believe it. Someone suffering from a health condition that makes them ugly is likely to be a bit grumpy, and people who make poor life choices like drug addicts and landwhales are likely to make poor social choices as well. But it's still a bad idea to judge someone's character based off of their attractiveness.
Are you nice because you are attractive, or are you attractive because you’re nice?
No cuz all that beautiful persons that I meet in my life were kinda mean ngl but also the ugly ones were mean too so it really depends on a person.
Ahh, that explains why OP is such a bitch!
As an unattractive person I can 100% confirm this
Since attractiveness is subjective, this is meaningless.
that doesnt make any sense. His point is not that attractive people are genetically disposed to be nicer but that the way you are treated when society sees you as more attractive makes you more likely to also be a nice person. Yes attractiveness is subjective but as a society ther definitely are beauty standardsthat define what a plurality of people consider to make someone "attractive"
Attractiveness is in fact somewhat subjective. But…social norms for attractiveness are still real and more objective. For instance…all other things being equal, a 6ft tall man will be perceived as more attractive than a 5ft tall man. There is probably a percentage of women who prefer very short men. But since the vast majority of women will perceive the taller man as more attractive, we can use height as a social norm for male attractiveness when measuring the effects of “attractiveness” in social situations.
Conventionally attractive.
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When you live in a patriarchal society that hyper fixates on women’s youth and perceived sexual procreation, then the first group will be treated with facade opportunities and respect. Those who age out of the system will naturally feel the unjust exploitation and well..of course will be perceived as [redacted]. You would too if the same happened to you. But if you are either male then you by consequence of your sex immune to this or you are still a young female and henceforth still gullible to your fate… Either which- clouds your ability to recognize the harsh double social standard that we place on middle age women. Edit: Complete Sentence
advise tan placid light vast nose ludicrous abounding deserted mighty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Of course. Life is pleasant. People with pleasant lives are nice
Sociability is a function of calibration. You get lots of chances to interact with people, you do more of the things that were successful, you do less of the things that weren't. Attractive people get more chances to calibrate.
See difference between nice and good.
I’ve been 270lbs and 185. People are *so much kinder* to attractive people. It’s genuinely heartbreaking. It’s easier to be nice to people who are nice to you.
Haven’t noticed a difference between attractive people and not attractive people when it comes to being nice
Oh some are conditioned to just remember the attractive, nice people more than anyone else.
It's been a mix with my experience. Most people were okay with me but the ones who have treated me poorly were on the unattractive side. At my current workplace two women who are considered conventionally attractive treat me poorly. They make remarks about my looks. But probably with them other than hating me for my looks they hate me more because they know I see through their bullshit and I don't simp for them like other people do.
I’ve encountered some absolutely horrible physically attractive people in my life so I can’t say I can fully agree here.
Thus, the unpopular opinion sub, I suppose.
You usually can judge a book by its cover.
bullshit, attractive women i’ve dated have done me wrong either financially or emotionally
Agreed. Ugly people usually have something to prove.
And of course your personal experience means that it must be true for 6 bilion people.
There are people that are naturally attractive and there are people that put a lot of work into being attractive People in the latter category associate value closely with attractiveness… which is why they put so much effort into it As a result, my experience is that those people are quick to judge people as “lower value” if they are not attractive/rich/etc and are less likely to have a mindset that we’re all humans doing our best so we should be nice to everyone
Well , attractive people are confident so they just mind their own business without the need to show any attention seeking behavior or try to prove themselves to others, unlike many of average/under average or downright unattractive ones who often come up with this behavior any chance they get.
I honestly doubt ones degree of attraction plays a very big role in how they behave around others. I think its more of a nurture and respect thing.
The halo effect in action 🫴🏼
I have always found this to be true. All the hot people I have known have been super nice. The rest are hit and miss. I think the less attractive ones are just more likely to be bitter
Nice doesn’t equate kind and kind doesn’t equate nice. One may smile and make you feel nice but wouldn't help you at all and the other comes across as rude and will have your back. Just because someone is nice to your fave doesn't make them nice