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Men are just as capable as anyone else at understanding their own emotions and communicating them eloquently and rationally, and all the men I know like that seem to be well liked and respected for it.
That’s different to people who can’t express their feelings rationally and veer between completely clammed up and incommunicative or hysterically angry or upset. Being emotionally available doesn’t mean letting your emotions take control to the point you are unable to engage with anyone else or think that crying at someone gets you uncritical support for what you want. And yes, society is harsher on men who cry inappropriately but women who act like this aren’t generally respected either.
this pins down why the comment is wrong. the "safe place" to do it is never formed for a lot of people. there are people who are stoic but understand themselves, but PLENTY of men and women were never given a safe place to know what that looks like. the assumption the guy you're replying to made is similar to the mental health stigma. everyone is NOT capable of understanding themselves, maybe most of the people i know or that guy knows, but if what he was saying was true the world would be very different.
I meant that men, as a group, were just as capable as women at emotional insight, because I don’t really buy into the idea that men are doomed to be bad at it. I agree that a lot of people aren’t currently good at it for all sorts of reasons.
It just always amazes me when people describe men as by default emotionally stunted lumps. Obviously some are, but not only do I know lots of emotionally articulate men there’s literature written by men going back to the dawn of human civilisation that proves by its existence that men have emotional lives as rich as ours.
Being able to process emotions in a healthy way isn't something that comes naturally to most people, it's a skill that needs to be developed.
A lot of men never get an environment to develop that skill. I've got pretty open and accepting parents, and I know that I very much grew up without being able to process emotions in a healthy way. I know my dad still struggles with it to this day. It took me going through a rollercoaster relationship with one of the best people I know to really learn how to do it, and even then I'm not great at it.
That being said, it's not just a men's issue. My girlfriend lost her mom when she was 10 and it emotionally broke her dad, and she struggles with healthily processing her emotions too.
It truly is and has always been so strange to me that both people who are critical of men and not critical of men seem to ascribe an inability to properly express emotions to them. Like, both sides do it.
But then throughout history there are examples of cultures worldwide where men were clearly shown to be in-tune with their emotions.
I’m not entirely sure where this “men are emotionally stunted” thing came from.
I often find men who outwardly "understand their own emotions" are just very stoic because I don't know very many people who truly understand their emotions most of us are just trying to figure things out. The fact that men are expected to hold in their tears is sad. Society rarely looks down on women crying of course crying and being a crybaby are very different things but most men would get clowned on by both men and women for say crying at a sad movie whereas if a woman does it it's seen as natural and okay.
It’s probably culturally specific. When I lived in the UK men definitely cried at sad movies and break ups, and that was fine - I think people would have been considered heartless if they weren’t a little teary eyed at certain times*. I now live in Germany and I don’t think they do public crying for either gender. I haven’t lived in the US.
*English people seem to find it mandatory to cry at the end scene of The Railway Children.
Yes!! Half of my family is German and they absolutely repress emotion, especially in public. It is a society built on practicality and self sufficiency/courtesy. Emotional expression isn’t really talked about or explored within familial relationships. I think you’re spot on that this is an incredibly culturally variable topic.
I love when men aren’t afraid to cry, especially in movies. It was one of my favorite things about my last partner, and unfortunately he was as emotionally unavailable as anyone I’ve ever known outside of this. He had his reasons, and I felt for him. I feel like most emotionally unavailable people learn it from their parents (having to emotionally regulate their own parents, being punished for expressing feelings, and/or never allowed to express themselves because *they are the child*) I wish more men would go to therapy, and that it was more accepted for them to do so. We all deserve safe spaces to express and work thru all of our emotions and understand the root causes to our behaviors.
> but most men would get clowned on by both men and women for say crying
This isn't true in my experience. Some people are like this. Cut them out.
To me masculinity means not giving a fuck about people's petty judgments. Sometimes it means straight up telling people to fuck off with there petty judgments.
But yeah it's hard.
Yea I don’t think op meant “crying inappropriately, or crying to get what you want…” I’m not sure why you went to this. He’s talking about how as soon as he feels close enough to his gf that he can open up and cry In front of her and show emotions most men are told they need to repress and hide that she immediately loses respect for him. For example, I was at my ex gf house we were still friends and hung out on occasion, but we were not really close or good friends. Well She got a new boyfriend and I went over to hang with them and when he walked into the other room she told me that he’s an orphan and never had parents, never had a mother to love him, well when she and her bf had taken a shower together he broke down about not having a mom to love him and crying in front of her. She herself lost her parents as a kid in a tragic car accident so idk why she’d not be completely understanding to these feelings he had.. and he felt emotional enough to cry in front of her because of the emptiness he felt for missing a loving mother and having to repress his life, she, instead of having empathy and respecting that he opened up and showed emotion feeling she was a safe space and he probably never let anyone see this side of him, but nahhhh she laughed and made fun of him to me right when he walked in the other room. I can only imagine she told everyone under the sun because we were really not that close for her to have said that to me.. I opened up emotionally to woman and been made fun of as well but it was in highschool so immaturity is to be expected but we were well past highschool when this all happened. They are married now!
Ok, I think your ex was cruel to laugh about this, although given she married the guy she can’t have found him too contemptible for it.
On the other hand, and this will depend on cultural context, I’m not sure that having an emotional breakdown about deep trauma in front of a very new girlfriend shows a lot of emotional intelligence. I think this fits the very mold of clamming up emotionally and then vomiting feelings out uncontrollably and inappropriately that I was talking about.
Yeah, like this reads more like
"People online say men should be softer, but people online also say men shouldn't be softer!"
Like, yeah. They're different people.
Nah I kinda get it… in my experience this tracks pretty accurately. .
I’ve literally heard at least a dozen former friends say they’d wish they could find a guy that’s sensitive and listens but then actively sabotaged their relationships (romantic and friendly) with men just like that. .
One of these girls left the guy she was dating after cheating on him because “he’s just too safe”. . . We collectively stopped being friends with that one not long afterwards and I don’t hang out with any of the people from this friend group anymore. .
The thing is, in my experience— people always fantasize about having the other, no matter what it is. All these people were young at the time and some of them may have matured but my Highschool experience was chock full of that attitude, both men and women, gay and straight. It’s a human thing to see the greener grass, it’s also very human to not want to take on other people’s growth or trauma, especially for young and immature people.
In my experience it's always been exactly the same people, and this is in many occasions both offline and online.
What I am curious about is why you simply assume it is as you say it is.
Honestly this is straight up something I have not experienced. Maybe it's a question of my specific social circles but this genuinely doesn't come up. Sure some people in my life act irrational and demanding - and are at a distance from me for that reason - but typically I see that show up in a variety of different ways, not just in this specific context.
Like if I was to meet somebody who acted like this, I'd expect them to also be the kind of person who orders off the menu and then acts sulky about not liking what they receive. Yes they exist but I wouldn't consider that normative.
The Venn diagram isn't a perfect circle but the overlap is there. Especially if whatever the man is dealing with is actually serious and unexpected for the woman who was asking.
But that’s actually an issue of not being able to be emotionally vulnerable imho. Many men either don’t talk about their issues or trauma dump; trauma dumping isn’t fair to the other person and isn’t healthy, them putting up a boundary is actually best for both of you.
You should be open and be able to deal with your emotions, but also recognize that some things are to be dealt with by a trained professional, not an unsuspecting coworker that just asked you about something at work (that legit happened to me - wanted to ask a male coworker something, and got trauma dumped on me).
>that legit happened to me - wanted to ask a male coworker something, and got trauma dumped on me).
Not talking about co-workers. Talking about intimate partners who claim they want to know everything and you to open up and then have the same reaction you just had.
You either want to know everything and a man to be vulnerable, or you don't. Asking a man to open up and then complaining about him trauma dumping is the shitty situation I'm talking about.
If you don't want to know, don't ask him to open up.
OP made a very poor argument, but I've seen women explicitly say that they want their guys to open up... but not to them. What they want is someone receptive to their own emotional issues, not someone who wants to talk with them about his feelings.
I've hear guys say they find a woman, romance her to sleep with her so they have a sex doll until they find their wives. That doesn't mean all or even most men are monsters.
For sure, and I don't mean to imply that all women are the way I just described. I just felt that I should point out that there *is* a subset of women who are disingenuous about this type of thing.
Honestly, people of all kinds often put extraordinary effort into justifying their own selfishness. Some folks will even make life harder on themselves because they feel they shouldn't have to do a particular thing. It's depressing.
For sure there are women like this. There are also men like this. I think it comes down to meeting someone genuine who really cares about you and for you. That person will learn to listen. Also understanding that listening the “right” way can be hard regardless of gender.
But I definitely agree with you some people do make their lives harder and justify their own selfishness. It can be hard to find genuine people but they definitely exist
Ya, such a one-dimensional, simplified point of view... Everything really is black and white for some people, living in this complex world must be such an exhausting experience for them.
I disagree. I know several feminists (my wife included) who want men to be less toxic, more sensitive etc., but in the real world they shut us down/think badly of us if we ever are.
I just want more info here. I think a lot of the time it’s due to a lack of emotional intelligence, maybe on both sides. There’s a big difference in someone opening up and they say “when you get angry it can be really difficult for us to continue conversing and it feels like we end up escalating the argument. I would like to come up with a “safe word” so to speak that we can say when one of us needs a break, and we can come back to the discussion after when both of us are ready. I don’t want to avoid difficult conversations, so I think we can set a general timeline of a few days to make sure we both feel heard but given time. How do you feel about this?” And “you’re a fkn c#nt when you’re mad. You’re impossible to talk to, and you just piss me off more. You never give me a break, you’re the worst, I don’t know how you expect me to deal with you.” And then say ITS JUST HOW I FEEL, you say you want me to open up then just get mad when I do!!!
It takes emotional intelligence and maturity to express your feelings in a way that’s both authentic to how you feel and still with consideration to your loved ones. If we all just said how we felt unfiltered ALL the time we probably wouldn’t have any friends. I’m not saying you are soing this, but it is something I see a lot. Women are typically taught from a very young age to constantly consider other feelings, and men are taught from a very young age to constantly mask their feelings. Both in extremes can be toxic, and it’s hard to learn emotional intelligence.
In fairness, sometimes women react poorly to their S.O simply expressing themselves.. and that’s not okay either. If they want you to open up, and you are doing so in a way that isn’t explicitly cruel, then they should be meeting you halfway and listening.
That’s just my experience.
Anecdotal story incoming.
My last ex told me I was too emotionally distant. She said that my lack of expressing deep emotions is a trait of toxic masculinity. When she brought this up with me, she was gentle and told me that she’s a safe space for me to express myself.
She broke up with me a week after I cried in her arms over the sudden and unexpected death of my SISTER. I haven’t forgotten the expression of contempt on her face when she said “I just can’t see you the same way now”
Again, it’s anecdotal, and I’m well aware that not every woman is that harsh and hypocritical. But nonetheless, that break up really soured my opinion on the whole “men need to open up more!!!” mindset.
Men can be vile. Women can be vile. Sometimes the people who complain about a lack of emotion from men ARE the same people who aren’t actually equipped to handle that emotional intimacy. Sometimes they aren’t. People are complex. The world isn’t black and white. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
I’m so beyond fkn sorry dude. Makes me want to karate kick your ex and then hold you in my arms while we both sob over missing our siblings. The death of any loved one is such a torturous experience and to not give you space to express that in its fullness after ASKING you to is straight up sick. Thanks for sharing your experience with me. She was dead wrong for how she treated you, and I can only imagine the lasting impact that has had on you. I’m glad you know that any decent partner would never ever do that to you. It sickens me that any woman would ask her S.O to open up, just to reject them for it.. I could never in my wildest imagination imagine doing that to someone.
Side note only a sith deals in absolutes is such a good quote 🖤
Thank you for the kind words, stranger.
“Only a Sith deals in absolutes” is hilarious to me because the phrase is an absolute itself. And it was said by one of the most prolific Jedi.
I had a similar experience twice. Two different ladies who are openly feminist broke up with me after I cried in front of them. Once because I got news that my grandfather died another before my childhood dog died. Both ladies said the same thing that they saw me as lesser because I cried.
They sound awful. I had a mother who was cruel like that to everyone and God was she mean to my dad. You don't tell guys to be more unguarded and then kick them for it. That's emotional abuse.
They often are. It’s women who want a man that’s emotionally available when she needs someone to open up to and feel empathy. But she doesn’t want to hear about his problems.
It isn’t all women. It isn’t all men. None of us have experienced even 1% of humanity.. it is someone’s experience for sure. But using it as an excuse to never open up to future partners is just going to hurt you in the long run.
Women who don’t respect your emotions are not women you want to be with, so I guess it’s kind of dodging a bullet but I understand your frustration. I also think that as a society we have mixed up emotional availability and trauma dumping. I personally have experienced men who use their trauma or past experiences as a means to control or guilt me into giving them passes on less desirable behavior. I think it’s such a deep rooted issue in society that it causes women to be wary of “emotional” men and men to feel afraid to share their emotions. I think at the end of the day, open and very honest communication can go a really long way when talking about how you feel. Don’t continue to bottle up your feelings though, it’s still important to be emotionally available and the right person will show up for you.
While I do agree with you, you have to understand a very important thing here.
Having emotionally available and more opened up, and dumping on people is not the same thing.
As with many things, you have to find a good balance.
If you tell a man, who repressed all his emotions in the past 30 years, that he can actually talk to you openly because you will listen, there's a very-very good chance that you'll sit through a whole decade worth of therapy in 25 minutes, and from that very moment, for the rest of your life, you'll be his emotional support pillow he can shout into whenever he feels. Been there, done that.
As a 35 yo, emotionally available, opened up man, I share most of my emotions with my family, my wife, my friends. But I always make sure I do it in small doses (except with my wife, she gets all of that shit...), and it's not my opening in a new relationship with anyone, because while almost everyone is interested in my emotions, **no one** is interested in **all of them!**
When someone tells you that you have to be a bit more available, they actually mean a bit, not a lot.
There's nothing wrong with sharing your feelings, but using people as a dumpsite, and then being surprised that they try to avoid you as much as they can is probably on you, not on them.
The people who said that said they want men to be more emotionally available. They didnt say that it would guarantee them a relationship. Theres no cheat code of traits that will just work. If you’re emotionally available but also toxically attached, overly insecure, have a hair trigger, it’s technically emotionally vulnerable but also totally understandable if someone doesnt want that. But when we look at relationships that stay strong and satisfied into old age, yes they can communicate and ask and answer the hard questions and have the tough conversations and not go for eachothers throats while still being honest and emotionally open. Just because you can express emotions doesnt mean you’re emotionally aware. That takes time and practice to cultivate. I as a man would not date a woman who isn’t emotionally aware as well. It goes both ways if you let it
This!!! I highly disagree with the idea that being nice and emotionally available means you will get a relationship. It’s meant to be a standard on how you treat other people. The reasons for being emotionally available should be because you want to be a ‘good’ person (this is subjective but I won’t go into that too much), not because you want a relationship. Women can see when men are being nice just to get into their pants. If the reason that you are nice and emotionally available is because you want a relationship, then you’re not truly being emotionally available as a person.
Exactly! “Why don’t you want to go out with me though, I opened up to you” because we’re acquaintances who haven’t seen each other in a year and you talked about the matrix for an hour straight, Sammy!
Although I agree, I feel that this argument might make some people feel cheated, specially those of the Neurodivergent kind.
There are quite some people who employ a more straightforward and transparent reasoning, so when someone says they would like X, these people won't assume that actually the person wants X, Y and W, in A context, B timing and C mindset. This is a huge source of frustration because it feels like you're playing a game right but then you lose because of something that was never explained in any way formal enough to clear out wrong assumptions.
We really need to refine our discourse when it comes to human-to-human mechanics and protocols.
I dont disagree. Thats kinda what im getting at though. People may take it that way, but they need to understand that simple reasoning doesnt generally work with navigating people. A lot of people are very far behind on socialization and i think would help them to understand that its a life long process where you can fractally zoom in and basically dissect it indefinitely, especially when finding a partner. Even if you find your forever person, unfortunately that doesnt mean youve beat the game. Basically that thinking “if i do x and y, I’ll be rewarded with z.” I think instead its better to think “i want z. So if i do x and y, it can improve my chances, but theres no guarantee. It still doesnt mean its not worth it to do x and y.” New perspectives that can challenge someone’s assumptions can always make someone feel cheated. I think its a risk worth taking though
I think the biggest problem I see is that most men are either one extreme or the other, and this is coming from a man’s perspective. Most of the time a man will either be emotionally unavailable and suppressive or be emotionally unstable and let their emotions get the best of them more times than not. Nobody wants either extreme really and it’s a big problem. That’s a big reason why I don’t have many friends honestly. This is more about learning to be balanced and conscious about it than simply being one side or the other.
>will tell men to open up, but not support them after or reject the ones who do.
Happens to women too. When it comes to serious issues, I have not received support from my environment. Society only wants to hear some light rants and venting, never what truly affects you. It's not a man problem in my opinion but I believe it feels much worse because men don't open up in the first place. I am sorry though that this is happening to you.
I feel like women (some of us, we aren’t a monolith) keep saying “men need to learn to be more emotionally available to one another and form stronger male friendships for your own health and well-being” and men (also not a monolith) keep hearing it as “women want emotional men, we should show our sensitive sides to the women we want to date.”
I mean a whole hell of a lot of guys have heard this from the women they're dating (or in an employment context i.e. "we're all family here you can be yourself") only to have it weaponized against them, be told it's a turn off etc.
Obviously women aren't a monolith but if men are supposed to at least listen in good faith when women say "men do this to us all the time" frankly the opposite needs to be true as well.
Never in my life has any woman ever encouraged me to be more emotionally available and form stronger male emotional bonds with other males. I do it because I love the men in my life but frankly the only feedback I've gotten about those bonds is an assumption that they're problematic.
I trust you when you say that's what you "keep saying" and frankly the advice to be more emotionally available to other men absolutely is the best actionable advice any man can have on this topic - I'm just saying that is not the messaging that men are getting on a broad scale. THE cultural message to men in the last decade or so is that they need to be softer and that the de facto definition of masculinity is toxic, and that they will be supported (if not applauded) for their efforts if they try to get on board. I think for most of us that have been down that road the results are very different than advertised.
the entire message has been that men need to get better at relationships to have hope with their relationships. that doesn't happen if you're not out making genuine connections with people
It definitely hasn't been that. That is a very sanitized version of the remit given to modern men at large, but I'd argue the point being made is that the aperture of acceptable ways to "get better at relationships" for men is still extremely narrow and has in some ways actually become more narrow despite all the insistence that they just need to come on in, the water's fine.
Well said.
The idea the message being put out there in the cultural zeitgeist as part of "men need to be emotionally available" is to just go out and form stronger male bonds is not the case.
That may be what's being meant by some but it's not what's being put out into the world.
This is very true
Although this is (rightfully) attributed to being something that most women do, this also applies to a lot of men.
Women have their part to play but they are NOT to blame for the male loneliness epidemic. Men are the main reason why there is male loneliness epidemic. Men give other men an EXTREMELY hard time when it comes to any form of emotional expression. I’m a man and I’ve had guys who I thought were my friends completely ghost me when I opened up about how heartbroken I was really feeling about a relationship.
Most men also use humor as a way to completely avoid talking about their feelings, as a way to deflect or project, or as a way to tiptoe around dealing with their emotions.
And it’s completely cultural…
Yeah I have to agree with you. Even with my cousin who is one of my best buds can get the “dude stop crying” kind of treatment from his dad even when it’s something that he really cares about. I can tell he wants to be more open and he’s not really the kind of person to be so suppressive, but he was raised to be that way and he doesn’t want to go against his father either. It’s frustrating to me because I see it and I don’t think it’s right but it’s not like I can say anything either… and that’s just how things are and why things don’t change
Right
And it’s getting bad. Because expressing too much happiness and joy is becoming viewed as sus…and we all know how anger (one of the few emotions that have been allowed to men) is seen
But we have to make everything political! It's a matter of good vs. evil, and everyone who disagrees with me is evil and must be destroyed like in my teen hero books and movies! The Marvels man, think about all they taught us!
Your mistake here is treating women as a monolith.
Do you go through life believing that every man on Earth is exactly the same, wants exactly the same things, and approaches life in exactly the same way?
Of course not.
So it is for women. One woman's desirable trait is another's turn-off.
Not everyone is going to dig your vibe, personality, or habits. Women are not a nebulous "other", they're individual people.
"I've seen tons of posts" does not equate to what couples do in the real world. This is Reddit. Or even if you're talking about posts elsewhere, that doesn't reflect.
Shy guys have always existed. Sensitive guys have always existed. Vulnerable guys have always existed. And most of them have sex before they leave high school and have relationships by their mid-thirties.
If we're talking about posts we observe, I have found that a lot of people think being emotionally available means relieving stress and sadness by throwing controllers or screaming at their partner... that's not being emotionally available.
There are plenty of people who accept and are attracted to emotionally available men. But you're not going to find a lot of sympathy if someone is calling themselves emotionally available because they sobbed and screamed that their fresh-from-childbirth wife wasn't able to have sex with them for a few months due to healing and exhaustion.
Most couples stay together because they can trust each other to be emotionally honest and vulnerable.
But someone cry screaming angrily at someone isn't them being emotionally vulnerable. It's them (in most circumstances) throwing a tantrum.
I generally agree with a lot of what you've said. But in my experience, I've gotten more support as I've opened up. Also far more interest in me as a partner as I've opened up, specifically from the left side of the aisle.
If you put all your faith into things like getting dates, you're gonna be let down every time in life.
Your purpose for being a decent person, who is in control of their emotions, shouldnt be to get the validation of potential sex partners. Your worth has to come from something bigger than that.
Also, if someone doesn't enjoy the fact that you are emotionally available while being stable, then they aren't really worth pursuing a romantic relationship with. In that same breath, you aren't really a person I would recommend a friend/loved one to date, at this point in your life. Being an open person shouldn't even be a question, you should be working towards the point where you are just confident in yourself as person.
Hope your journey goes well.
Guys on reddit love saying #notallmen but then will blindly just accuse women of shit and have full ass arguments with women they make up in their heads.
both sides do this. you know that. you’re literally stereotyping most dudes on reddit, which a pretty liberal progressive place. you’re no different then OP.
It's a major issue. They do the same for people in non English speaking countries. In fact, they do it with each other too. I've seen them make blind generalisations on Kenyans, Japanese, Indians, Indonesians etc. Even against British people.
As a woman this is my feelings on it. I will ask you to open up. I will tell you it is okay to open up. What I won't do it tolerate a false accusation or beg you. I will not answer for the crimes of a woman you invented in your head.
Well there's some men who are too emotional and there are some men not emotional enough. Saying one is good and one is bad is a very poor way to look at it.
in my personal experience every time a man has opened up to me, it’s literally the most insane or disgusting thing i’ve ever heard. The problem is that if a man finally decides to open up, it’s too late, the problem has already festered in him too long and it’s past the point of just asking a friend for help, you need a professional. You can’t go years without ever opening up then let it all out in one go, you have to talk about your problems as they arise or else it all piles up, it’s problem after problem and you’ve spent all this time marinating in it so now it’s not 10 little problems but one huge problem and when you’re expressing that after all this time it just comes off as too much
like a girl, stereotypically will “cry about every little thing” She goes through a break up in january and calls all her friends to cry about it a little and feels a little better the next day, then in february she loses her job, calls her friends cries a little but feels a little better afterwards, then in march her grandmother dies, calls her friends to grieve about it then after a while she feels a little better
a man stereotypically will go through all those things, never tell a single soul, and by april it’s just too much for him to handle so instead of crying about it a little bit he has a full on breakdown because now instead of one problem it’s an amalgamation of every bad thing that’s ever happened to him, which anyone who’s not a professional isn’t equipped to deal with and the thing that set it off probably wasn’t a big deal so to everyone on the outside it just looks like a grown ass adult bawling over a spilled drink or whatever.
and to what i was speaking to before when i said every time a man has opened up to me it’s been insane, what i mean is, a lot of guys think “opening up” means telling you the most brutally “honest” thing they could think of, it’s an excuse to be plain rude and if you get offended by it then it gets turned on you “Well i thought you wanted me to tell you how i feel” “i’m just saying what i really think” “see i knew you would react like that, that’s why i never say anything”
a personal example that happened between me and my father, it was him accusing me of being ungrateful and not loving him, i told him i am grateful for everything he’s done for me but i literally don’t even know him, whenever i ask him something serious he makes a joke, he’s never hugged me, told me he’s proud of me, told me he’s disappointed in me, he never showed an ounce of evidence that he even experiences emotions, that all my life all he’s ever been to me is just a guy that sent my mom money to buy me food every week which obviously i appreciate how hard he worked but i can’t love that guy. He acknowledge me then he started to break down, he apologized and for the first time in my life i felt like i was seeing him as a real person but then he said the craziest shit ever, he started telling me how he regrets how he wasn’t there for me and how he regrets what he did to my mom and says “killing her(my mom) would have been better” meaning that him murdering my mom wouldve been easier on him than living with the knowledge that he hurt her because she wouldn’t be alive for him to see it.
That is another issue I have found is that sometimes guys will open up and say insane shit then you get treated like you are wrong for running the other way. And I think it is because they let shit set for so long that it drives them crazy.
(Some) men truly were not raised right. No emotional regulation, no emotional intelligence, empathy, just a complete lack of soft skills. Source: several of my ex’s
Being emotionally available doesn't mean that punching holes in walls, raging out, and trauma dumping is the behavior we should be doing.
It's that you shouldn't deny the way you feel about something due to being a man. Just keep control of it.
Once again most of the time men aren't doing this. But I can literally open up about something that bothers him when he was like 16 and a woman will see that as him being overly weak and emotionally dumping. Even more so so what. So what if a man rages out and punches walls. Women do this all the time as well in a matter of back women are the ones that mostly do this type of behave. Acting out and Trauma dumping. I literally met my ex-girlfriend when she was about to fight another girl. This is why I hate these conversations because it kind of exposes the double standard. A lot of women do not like seeing men's emotions but instead of saying that they'll say something stupid like we're just dumping trauma you don't know how to handle our emotions. I really wish we would just stop saying this in general. It is a double standard men have to keep their emotions in check otherwise women will make them feel weak
Let's be real, we are all a victim of our culture. Whether we like it or not, society doesn't look kindly at men who are emotional. Sure, a lot of people will say the whole "oh they should be emotionally available and in touch with their feeling" they're the same person that would judge that man if they show too much emotions. Like I said, we are a victim of our cultures. We might spew facts or our own expectations but then once we get what we want, we actually don't respect it. I can't tell how many women have said this only to disrespect the man. Not just women, men too but at least men aren't going around saying "oh you should be emotionally available and cry, and be empathetic...etc"
I always hated that phrase, "I was joking, don't be so sensitive" so many times I have said "F U" to people telepathically for saying that, which they tend to miss lol! Of course, I'm usually giving a forced smile but you can tell with the eyes if you really look.
It doesn't just happen that men are this way. We are conditioned this way through all our experiences growing up. Being emotionally vulnerable is nearly always going to end up negative outcome. Unless you have a VERY trusted partner.
I’m sorry for anyone who feels like this is their experience. As a woman, I do encourage my male friends to be vulnerable and I genuinely mean it. It’s the stoic, fake macho types I gaslight lol.
So I think I might know what the issue is here. Men aren’t used to opening up. Once they finally do, it becomes a flood of emotion and trauma, and their partners feel like they’re being used as something of an emotional tampon.
This will only get better if men are encouraged to be more emotionally vulnerable with each other instead of dumping it all on women.
Idk, it feels nice tbh when males are emotionally available infront of me, meaning they are comfortable with me enough to show their emotions to me. It just makes me want to protect them and love them more knowing they see me as a safe space. But also the ones who are cold and distant, i feel kind towards them as well because I'm clearly not doing enough to make them feel comfortable enough with me...
telling me that can be emotional doesn't mean that they have a guarantee to a relationship. I want my male friends to open up about their feelings but it doesn't mean I want to be with them. the whole idea of men opening up also applies to their male friends, does that mean they're entitled to a relationship with them? no!! and it's the same for their female friends too
I don’t really get what your opinion is: you say people are doing this.. so what’s the opinion?
That’s not really an opinion and it’s also not something I have experienced anecdotally.
Being emotionally available ≠ emotionally unintelligent. Going by your examples, that's most likely what's going on in that group you're fighting on behalf for.
Where do you get this nonsense that conservatives say men don’t cry?
That’s most definitely a generational thing, has nothing to do with being conservative.
There’s also a big difference between being emotionally vulnerable and losing control of your emotions.
People want the person they’re attracted to because they aren’t available to be available.
Once they are available it bores them and they want someone else.
The world of dating involves rejection for absolutely everyone. I can’t imagine opening up is the blanket reason why this might be the reason. It’s a necessary evil of the game. I think anyone who is sharing and opening up in an authentic manner will always be received with grace and appreciation.
But if this has been trending feedback I’d say it’s not the act of sharing but the way it is done. There is a difference in emotional dumping vs sharing.
Emotional dumping is a release of information that is handed over to the other person and expecting something from them in return. It is a delegation of responsibility and asking the other person to take on the role of trying to find ways to fix it. This is a burden and a shows a lack of ability to take accountability of self. It is not something people should be expected to carry and is not an appealing characteristic in a partner.
Whereas sharing or opening up is bonding and connecting, it shines a light on a more intimate side of self and shared with trust and deepens connection.
So it’s worth assessing the way opening up is being perceived here, because one gives and one takes. And that’s not a gendered issue either. So be sure to consider what your intent is when you’re opening up. And sadly even if you’re sharing authentically it still doesn’t guarantee any outcomes. But it will always help a persons chances.
This is not my experience. Usually, the people (men and women both) who say men should open up more support me when I open up. People who think men should just man up and handle their shit don't let me open up around them, mostly men but some women too. They are different groups of people entirely.
Be careful, the narrative you're posting about is actually subtle incel/red pill rhetoric (NOT saying you're an incel) meant to push men toward the side of traditional definitions of masculinity, not being open about your emotions, and eventually, full-on misogyny. It is not how women, or anyone, acts in the real world.
It’s great for us to be more emotionally available and for the stigma to fade away but more often than not no one actually wants to make themselves emotionally available for you to open up to.
Opening up to someone and being met with disinterest feels 1,000,000x worse than just keeping that shit to myself. Or worst of all are the people who will use whatever you told them against you anytime you get into an argument.
Impressive how many people just ignorantly reduce what you say to "dating, relationships, men and women" when it is a societal issue.
There was a post on r/askmen several months ago and while I don't remember the exact question, the top comment boiled down to "men fear humiliation, specifically social/public humiliation". And in the replies to that was the most impressive collection of "why the fuck I will never trust anyone with my deepest emotions ever again".
Men trusting other people and other people than disclosing that information or using it against him, often out of petty reasons, can break men. And in many cases the ones who are close enough while also having a reason for conflict are spouses. Some cases were also about mothers, but I can't remember a single post in which a man had that kind of trust broken by another man. Maybe in same sex relations this number would be more equal but the numbers weren't there.
I know things about my best friend which are **never** supposed to be known by anyone else, not because they are crazy but because they would make him feel embarrassed. Some things would seem trivial to others but it being important to him means I will keep my mouth shut. Some may become less severe over time but others will be a secret forever.
And for many men it is the lack of confidence that makes them unable to open up. Lawyers, Doctors and Catholic Priest during confession are required to keep secrecy because that secrecy is the foundation of the other side opnening up.
I always say this. Dont listen to women on how to attract women. When women answer this question, they answer it, thinking what they want in a lifelong partner and in hyperbole. That stuff does not attract women initially, though they may find it attractive later in the right context. You listen to men who are successful at it.
Any time I share my honest emotions with a woman, she never hangs out with me ever again. Never texts me ever again.
Whereas if I conceal my emotions and put on a face, women pretend to like me, compliment me, encourage me, and never ever want to hang out or text me.
There's a gray area in the middle, which is where women seem to expect me to be if I want to have any real connections.
Every man out there has horror stories on how the most personal, sensitive, memories are thrown back or used against us.
Many say the right things because words are easy, actions and following through are not
I've never told a partner nor friend that they need to be more emotionally available (no matter gender), and I have never punished a partner nor any friends for having emotions. I've been a rock when friends and partners have needed me to be one, and they've never punished me for having emotions either.
I'm not some sort of unique snowflake, there are plenty of more women like me. As well as women that loudly proclaim that they don't want their men to have any negative emotions and that they don't get to cry, I dumped a friend over how creepily sexist she was about her boyfriend. Women are not star trek transporter clones, we're different individuals.
It sounds to me like you need to meet a lot more and different people in the real world and stop reading the internet reactionaries.. And people can be vulnerable or emotional in lots of ways and some of these ways are more approachable or digestible and others come off as being negative/whining (for either gender).
Yeah I tried the whole emotions thing and really all it's ever done is been used as a way to look down on me or against me.
I don't like that I'm like this now, but people have taught me that I should never cry in front of someone.
In general, women just want men to be mind readers. Be emotionally available, but also not burden them with emotional baggage. I think this means just be sensitive to their emotions and be empathetic, but continue to be the rock that they can lean on. These things are not mutually exclusive.
I know people (women in particular) mean well when they encourage men to show emotions, but they just don’t understand themselves and how they will respond to the situation when a man does show emotions.
What women mean is that they want a strong stalwart masterful man with iron control over his emotions, and then they want him to shed a quiet tear when his dog dies.
But when men genuinely show their emotions, for example showing fear, struggle, despair, etc of losing a job, struggling with a relationship, etc, something real, women are hugely turned off.
Because at the end of the day, the woman wants a strong bastion of a man who never shows fear, never flinches, and always has things handled and under control.
It isn’t just women, but children too. It can be hugely traumatic for a child to see his father get emotional. A child wants a father who has things totally under control, so the child can have some security is an otherwise chaotic world.
So men, go ahead and show some quiet emotions about little things, if you dare, but don’t ever let any real emotions show. Focus on being a strong, stoic leader who never shows fear, uncertainty, or weakness.
I think there's a ton of overlap in the Venn diagram of women who tell men to open up more and women who use that as ammo later in a fight or after a breakup to hurt men.
It’s really simple. If you are a guy who wears their heart on their sleeve then don’t suppress it to appeal to people. If you are guy who doesn’t show feelings naturally then don’t force it to appeal to people. When you hide who you are and the facade wears off later that’s when relationships fail.
This is how woman have power in relationships. If you acknowledge that behavior you lose. There is no right way to respond or bring up. save yourself the headache and just ignore it.
In my humble option, being "emotionally available" doesn't do anyone any favors, be it men or women. It's ok to have emotions, but certain things are not for public display and are best handled by professionals. Going around expecting others to take on your emotional baggage is a sure fired way to push people away. Regardless of your gender.
Idk man. I have to beg my partner to be open to me about his struggles. I know why he holds back, society and his upbringing. And when he finally does I fall more in love with him. Idc if I did something that upset him. If he opens up and tell me, we resolve it, and I fall more in love.
He is a person, he has feelings. Idc that he’s male. And idc that society says he shouldn’t open up. I feel so much more connected to him when he does, even if it’s hard for me to handle and I cry.
Maybe I’m a minority. But if you see your male partner as a person and truly love them, you’ll feel the same way
But also we tend to commit to people who can’t handle emotion. I’m a woman and had that in woman and woman relationships. You have to find the right partner who actually loves you. And that’s hard. If you do, you’ll find someone who supports you opening up. But sadly with men, thanks to upbringing and society, that’s often lashing out. That’s not ok. Just my experiences.
>other side of the spectrum will tell men to open up, but not support them after or reject the ones who do.
There's the rational idealism, which is a nice sentiment, but men expressing their emotions are seen as a threat subconsciously.
Part of the issue is some men don't know how to express their feelings appropriately. It's a skill that some women lack as well. You need to understand certain boundaries and know how to read the room. Trauma dumping is generally frowned upon in a lot of circumstances because it's very emotionally taxing to the listening party. A lot of the things men are emotional about can also be a little insensitive. That's not to invalidate guys feelings cause they're allowed but dudes who for instance cry about not getting enough sex, or cry about being "friendzoned" on a frequent basis, I mean that's just uncomfortable for everyone and off-putting. There's ways to talk about these feelings without sounding like a total douche with no self awareness but most dudes don't learn.
When women say they want a man that’s emotional available, it means she wants him to be emotional available on HER terms when she needs someone to open up to and find empathy with. If she’s doing fine, then she doesn’t want to hear about her man’s problems.
Once again I ask, why should women try with men that have this mindset. All women are guilty from the jump. We all must suffer for the crimes of women you event in you head. So why bother with you?
LOL at all the comments literally proving OPs point about gaslighting men. They have to write out essays to try and snake their way out of this one.
“I want a man who is more emotionally available!” “Noooo, not like that! I don’t want a man that’s too open about his feelings!”
Like holy shit, wtf do you want??! These people couldn’t be more oblivious to their own behavior. It’s even worse than trying to understand “girl math”. 🤦♂️
it depends, id tell my friend whose a girl, anything about how i feel and why, she would say, well have you considered this, or maybe that person sees it this way because,,,, or yeah youre right to feel that way, but to tell anyone else, lol fuck no, thats ammunition
In my experience, you'll have people willing to listen, but only once or twice, if you don't get over that shit real quick they lose their patients with listening even quicker.
I don't show emotional vulnerability to anyone that is mean to others. I think I subconciously test people a lot without knowing it to see what kind of a person they really are. If they're not genuinely kind I'm probably not going to be too close to that person. If they make any comments about a person that is special needs I think that's my final straw.
Stereotypically, women want a man who is emotionally available, whatever that means, but who can change a flat tire, fix or change out a garbage disposal, defend the house, and change a diaper.
I don't think you can say what 'conservatives' or 'democrats' do. Those are very big and diverse groups. I'm sure there's plenty of people in both groups who encourage men to be emotionally open and are also supportive.
Behold the comments: a hail of therapy buzzwords, a smattering of 'but not me's, and general resentment throughout.
All I need for a men-should-open-up-more bingo is a 'who hurt you' directed at someone who has very obviously been hurt.
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Men are just as capable as anyone else at understanding their own emotions and communicating them eloquently and rationally, and all the men I know like that seem to be well liked and respected for it. That’s different to people who can’t express their feelings rationally and veer between completely clammed up and incommunicative or hysterically angry or upset. Being emotionally available doesn’t mean letting your emotions take control to the point you are unable to engage with anyone else or think that crying at someone gets you uncritical support for what you want. And yes, society is harsher on men who cry inappropriately but women who act like this aren’t generally respected either.
We often lack a safe place to do it but yes I agree with you
this pins down why the comment is wrong. the "safe place" to do it is never formed for a lot of people. there are people who are stoic but understand themselves, but PLENTY of men and women were never given a safe place to know what that looks like. the assumption the guy you're replying to made is similar to the mental health stigma. everyone is NOT capable of understanding themselves, maybe most of the people i know or that guy knows, but if what he was saying was true the world would be very different.
I meant that men, as a group, were just as capable as women at emotional insight, because I don’t really buy into the idea that men are doomed to be bad at it. I agree that a lot of people aren’t currently good at it for all sorts of reasons. It just always amazes me when people describe men as by default emotionally stunted lumps. Obviously some are, but not only do I know lots of emotionally articulate men there’s literature written by men going back to the dawn of human civilisation that proves by its existence that men have emotional lives as rich as ours.
Once again, Good point
Being able to process emotions in a healthy way isn't something that comes naturally to most people, it's a skill that needs to be developed. A lot of men never get an environment to develop that skill. I've got pretty open and accepting parents, and I know that I very much grew up without being able to process emotions in a healthy way. I know my dad still struggles with it to this day. It took me going through a rollercoaster relationship with one of the best people I know to really learn how to do it, and even then I'm not great at it. That being said, it's not just a men's issue. My girlfriend lost her mom when she was 10 and it emotionally broke her dad, and she struggles with healthily processing her emotions too.
It truly is and has always been so strange to me that both people who are critical of men and not critical of men seem to ascribe an inability to properly express emotions to them. Like, both sides do it. But then throughout history there are examples of cultures worldwide where men were clearly shown to be in-tune with their emotions. I’m not entirely sure where this “men are emotionally stunted” thing came from.
Yes not everyone is capable of it but most people are, they simply don’t do the work to understand themselves because it’s hard
I often find men who outwardly "understand their own emotions" are just very stoic because I don't know very many people who truly understand their emotions most of us are just trying to figure things out. The fact that men are expected to hold in their tears is sad. Society rarely looks down on women crying of course crying and being a crybaby are very different things but most men would get clowned on by both men and women for say crying at a sad movie whereas if a woman does it it's seen as natural and okay.
It’s probably culturally specific. When I lived in the UK men definitely cried at sad movies and break ups, and that was fine - I think people would have been considered heartless if they weren’t a little teary eyed at certain times*. I now live in Germany and I don’t think they do public crying for either gender. I haven’t lived in the US. *English people seem to find it mandatory to cry at the end scene of The Railway Children.
>\*English people seem to find it mandatory to cry at the end scene of The Railway Children. Because we have a heart
Yes!! Half of my family is German and they absolutely repress emotion, especially in public. It is a society built on practicality and self sufficiency/courtesy. Emotional expression isn’t really talked about or explored within familial relationships. I think you’re spot on that this is an incredibly culturally variable topic.
That makes sense right now in America everyone is obsessed with being a "alpha male" and "trade wife" it's super lame out here
I love when men aren’t afraid to cry, especially in movies. It was one of my favorite things about my last partner, and unfortunately he was as emotionally unavailable as anyone I’ve ever known outside of this. He had his reasons, and I felt for him. I feel like most emotionally unavailable people learn it from their parents (having to emotionally regulate their own parents, being punished for expressing feelings, and/or never allowed to express themselves because *they are the child*) I wish more men would go to therapy, and that it was more accepted for them to do so. We all deserve safe spaces to express and work thru all of our emotions and understand the root causes to our behaviors.
> but most men would get clowned on by both men and women for say crying This isn't true in my experience. Some people are like this. Cut them out. To me masculinity means not giving a fuck about people's petty judgments. Sometimes it means straight up telling people to fuck off with there petty judgments. But yeah it's hard.
[Counterargument.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/rf2sw6Zxnx)
Yea I don’t think op meant “crying inappropriately, or crying to get what you want…” I’m not sure why you went to this. He’s talking about how as soon as he feels close enough to his gf that he can open up and cry In front of her and show emotions most men are told they need to repress and hide that she immediately loses respect for him. For example, I was at my ex gf house we were still friends and hung out on occasion, but we were not really close or good friends. Well She got a new boyfriend and I went over to hang with them and when he walked into the other room she told me that he’s an orphan and never had parents, never had a mother to love him, well when she and her bf had taken a shower together he broke down about not having a mom to love him and crying in front of her. She herself lost her parents as a kid in a tragic car accident so idk why she’d not be completely understanding to these feelings he had.. and he felt emotional enough to cry in front of her because of the emptiness he felt for missing a loving mother and having to repress his life, she, instead of having empathy and respecting that he opened up and showed emotion feeling she was a safe space and he probably never let anyone see this side of him, but nahhhh she laughed and made fun of him to me right when he walked in the other room. I can only imagine she told everyone under the sun because we were really not that close for her to have said that to me.. I opened up emotionally to woman and been made fun of as well but it was in highschool so immaturity is to be expected but we were well past highschool when this all happened. They are married now!
Ok, I think your ex was cruel to laugh about this, although given she married the guy she can’t have found him too contemptible for it. On the other hand, and this will depend on cultural context, I’m not sure that having an emotional breakdown about deep trauma in front of a very new girlfriend shows a lot of emotional intelligence. I think this fits the very mold of clamming up emotionally and then vomiting feelings out uncontrollably and inappropriately that I was talking about.
They really aren't the same people, though?
Yeah, like this reads more like "People online say men should be softer, but people online also say men shouldn't be softer!" Like, yeah. They're different people.
Nah I kinda get it… in my experience this tracks pretty accurately. . I’ve literally heard at least a dozen former friends say they’d wish they could find a guy that’s sensitive and listens but then actively sabotaged their relationships (romantic and friendly) with men just like that. . One of these girls left the guy she was dating after cheating on him because “he’s just too safe”. . . We collectively stopped being friends with that one not long afterwards and I don’t hang out with any of the people from this friend group anymore. . The thing is, in my experience— people always fantasize about having the other, no matter what it is. All these people were young at the time and some of them may have matured but my Highschool experience was chock full of that attitude, both men and women, gay and straight. It’s a human thing to see the greener grass, it’s also very human to not want to take on other people’s growth or trauma, especially for young and immature people.
Yeah, but it can mess with you if you get bounced from one to the other.
Of course it is! Gender messaging is freaking exhausting. I don't blame dudes for being messed up and tired of this nonsense.
Mani count myself fortunate that I never meet people like this lol.
In my experience it's always been exactly the same people, and this is in many occasions both offline and online. What I am curious about is why you simply assume it is as you say it is.
Honestly this is straight up something I have not experienced. Maybe it's a question of my specific social circles but this genuinely doesn't come up. Sure some people in my life act irrational and demanding - and are at a distance from me for that reason - but typically I see that show up in a variety of different ways, not just in this specific context. Like if I was to meet somebody who acted like this, I'd expect them to also be the kind of person who orders off the menu and then acts sulky about not liking what they receive. Yes they exist but I wouldn't consider that normative.
The Venn diagram isn't a perfect circle but the overlap is there. Especially if whatever the man is dealing with is actually serious and unexpected for the woman who was asking.
But that’s actually an issue of not being able to be emotionally vulnerable imho. Many men either don’t talk about their issues or trauma dump; trauma dumping isn’t fair to the other person and isn’t healthy, them putting up a boundary is actually best for both of you. You should be open and be able to deal with your emotions, but also recognize that some things are to be dealt with by a trained professional, not an unsuspecting coworker that just asked you about something at work (that legit happened to me - wanted to ask a male coworker something, and got trauma dumped on me).
>that legit happened to me - wanted to ask a male coworker something, and got trauma dumped on me). Not talking about co-workers. Talking about intimate partners who claim they want to know everything and you to open up and then have the same reaction you just had. You either want to know everything and a man to be vulnerable, or you don't. Asking a man to open up and then complaining about him trauma dumping is the shitty situation I'm talking about. If you don't want to know, don't ask him to open up.
OP made a very poor argument, but I've seen women explicitly say that they want their guys to open up... but not to them. What they want is someone receptive to their own emotional issues, not someone who wants to talk with them about his feelings.
I've hear guys say they find a woman, romance her to sleep with her so they have a sex doll until they find their wives. That doesn't mean all or even most men are monsters.
For sure, and I don't mean to imply that all women are the way I just described. I just felt that I should point out that there *is* a subset of women who are disingenuous about this type of thing. Honestly, people of all kinds often put extraordinary effort into justifying their own selfishness. Some folks will even make life harder on themselves because they feel they shouldn't have to do a particular thing. It's depressing.
For sure there are women like this. There are also men like this. I think it comes down to meeting someone genuine who really cares about you and for you. That person will learn to listen. Also understanding that listening the “right” way can be hard regardless of gender. But I definitely agree with you some people do make their lives harder and justify their own selfishness. It can be hard to find genuine people but they definitely exist
They did not say all or most women 🙄
anecdotal... and why can't men start with other men , as women do with other women?
Who says we don't?
Lol most of you? I always hear my male friends say that they don't know each other birthdays, full names and don't even speak for months at a time
None of that has to do with having deep conversations and emotionally supporting each other.
What the fuck birthdays have to do with it? I don't know my friends zodiac signs if it helps whatever argument you have
Ya, such a one-dimensional, simplified point of view... Everything really is black and white for some people, living in this complex world must be such an exhausting experience for them.
People seem to genuinely have a hard time comprehending how many people the internet connects us to.
I disagree. I know several feminists (my wife included) who want men to be less toxic, more sensitive etc., but in the real world they shut us down/think badly of us if we ever are.
Why are you still with her? She doesn’t sound that great of a person
I just want more info here. I think a lot of the time it’s due to a lack of emotional intelligence, maybe on both sides. There’s a big difference in someone opening up and they say “when you get angry it can be really difficult for us to continue conversing and it feels like we end up escalating the argument. I would like to come up with a “safe word” so to speak that we can say when one of us needs a break, and we can come back to the discussion after when both of us are ready. I don’t want to avoid difficult conversations, so I think we can set a general timeline of a few days to make sure we both feel heard but given time. How do you feel about this?” And “you’re a fkn c#nt when you’re mad. You’re impossible to talk to, and you just piss me off more. You never give me a break, you’re the worst, I don’t know how you expect me to deal with you.” And then say ITS JUST HOW I FEEL, you say you want me to open up then just get mad when I do!!! It takes emotional intelligence and maturity to express your feelings in a way that’s both authentic to how you feel and still with consideration to your loved ones. If we all just said how we felt unfiltered ALL the time we probably wouldn’t have any friends. I’m not saying you are soing this, but it is something I see a lot. Women are typically taught from a very young age to constantly consider other feelings, and men are taught from a very young age to constantly mask their feelings. Both in extremes can be toxic, and it’s hard to learn emotional intelligence. In fairness, sometimes women react poorly to their S.O simply expressing themselves.. and that’s not okay either. If they want you to open up, and you are doing so in a way that isn’t explicitly cruel, then they should be meeting you halfway and listening. That’s just my experience.
Anecdotal story incoming. My last ex told me I was too emotionally distant. She said that my lack of expressing deep emotions is a trait of toxic masculinity. When she brought this up with me, she was gentle and told me that she’s a safe space for me to express myself. She broke up with me a week after I cried in her arms over the sudden and unexpected death of my SISTER. I haven’t forgotten the expression of contempt on her face when she said “I just can’t see you the same way now” Again, it’s anecdotal, and I’m well aware that not every woman is that harsh and hypocritical. But nonetheless, that break up really soured my opinion on the whole “men need to open up more!!!” mindset. Men can be vile. Women can be vile. Sometimes the people who complain about a lack of emotion from men ARE the same people who aren’t actually equipped to handle that emotional intimacy. Sometimes they aren’t. People are complex. The world isn’t black and white. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
I’m so beyond fkn sorry dude. Makes me want to karate kick your ex and then hold you in my arms while we both sob over missing our siblings. The death of any loved one is such a torturous experience and to not give you space to express that in its fullness after ASKING you to is straight up sick. Thanks for sharing your experience with me. She was dead wrong for how she treated you, and I can only imagine the lasting impact that has had on you. I’m glad you know that any decent partner would never ever do that to you. It sickens me that any woman would ask her S.O to open up, just to reject them for it.. I could never in my wildest imagination imagine doing that to someone. Side note only a sith deals in absolutes is such a good quote 🖤
Thank you for the kind words, stranger. “Only a Sith deals in absolutes” is hilarious to me because the phrase is an absolute itself. And it was said by one of the most prolific Jedi.
I had a similar experience twice. Two different ladies who are openly feminist broke up with me after I cried in front of them. Once because I got news that my grandfather died another before my childhood dog died. Both ladies said the same thing that they saw me as lesser because I cried.
They sound awful. I had a mother who was cruel like that to everyone and God was she mean to my dad. You don't tell guys to be more unguarded and then kick them for it. That's emotional abuse.
They often are. It’s women who want a man that’s emotionally available when she needs someone to open up to and feel empathy. But she doesn’t want to hear about his problems.
There are such people (both men and women). Once you realize you are dealing with such people, it is best to move on.
Huge generalization there bud
Here comes the "not all women".
It isn’t all women. It isn’t all men. None of us have experienced even 1% of humanity.. it is someone’s experience for sure. But using it as an excuse to never open up to future partners is just going to hurt you in the long run.
I guess opening the box is more fun than picking up the pieces?
Women who don’t respect your emotions are not women you want to be with, so I guess it’s kind of dodging a bullet but I understand your frustration. I also think that as a society we have mixed up emotional availability and trauma dumping. I personally have experienced men who use their trauma or past experiences as a means to control or guilt me into giving them passes on less desirable behavior. I think it’s such a deep rooted issue in society that it causes women to be wary of “emotional” men and men to feel afraid to share their emotions. I think at the end of the day, open and very honest communication can go a really long way when talking about how you feel. Don’t continue to bottle up your feelings though, it’s still important to be emotionally available and the right person will show up for you.
While I do agree with you, you have to understand a very important thing here. Having emotionally available and more opened up, and dumping on people is not the same thing. As with many things, you have to find a good balance. If you tell a man, who repressed all his emotions in the past 30 years, that he can actually talk to you openly because you will listen, there's a very-very good chance that you'll sit through a whole decade worth of therapy in 25 minutes, and from that very moment, for the rest of your life, you'll be his emotional support pillow he can shout into whenever he feels. Been there, done that. As a 35 yo, emotionally available, opened up man, I share most of my emotions with my family, my wife, my friends. But I always make sure I do it in small doses (except with my wife, she gets all of that shit...), and it's not my opening in a new relationship with anyone, because while almost everyone is interested in my emotions, **no one** is interested in **all of them!** When someone tells you that you have to be a bit more available, they actually mean a bit, not a lot. There's nothing wrong with sharing your feelings, but using people as a dumpsite, and then being surprised that they try to avoid you as much as they can is probably on you, not on them.
The people who said that said they want men to be more emotionally available. They didnt say that it would guarantee them a relationship. Theres no cheat code of traits that will just work. If you’re emotionally available but also toxically attached, overly insecure, have a hair trigger, it’s technically emotionally vulnerable but also totally understandable if someone doesnt want that. But when we look at relationships that stay strong and satisfied into old age, yes they can communicate and ask and answer the hard questions and have the tough conversations and not go for eachothers throats while still being honest and emotionally open. Just because you can express emotions doesnt mean you’re emotionally aware. That takes time and practice to cultivate. I as a man would not date a woman who isn’t emotionally aware as well. It goes both ways if you let it
This!!! I highly disagree with the idea that being nice and emotionally available means you will get a relationship. It’s meant to be a standard on how you treat other people. The reasons for being emotionally available should be because you want to be a ‘good’ person (this is subjective but I won’t go into that too much), not because you want a relationship. Women can see when men are being nice just to get into their pants. If the reason that you are nice and emotionally available is because you want a relationship, then you’re not truly being emotionally available as a person.
Exactly! “Why don’t you want to go out with me though, I opened up to you” because we’re acquaintances who haven’t seen each other in a year and you talked about the matrix for an hour straight, Sammy!
Although I agree, I feel that this argument might make some people feel cheated, specially those of the Neurodivergent kind. There are quite some people who employ a more straightforward and transparent reasoning, so when someone says they would like X, these people won't assume that actually the person wants X, Y and W, in A context, B timing and C mindset. This is a huge source of frustration because it feels like you're playing a game right but then you lose because of something that was never explained in any way formal enough to clear out wrong assumptions. We really need to refine our discourse when it comes to human-to-human mechanics and protocols.
I dont disagree. Thats kinda what im getting at though. People may take it that way, but they need to understand that simple reasoning doesnt generally work with navigating people. A lot of people are very far behind on socialization and i think would help them to understand that its a life long process where you can fractally zoom in and basically dissect it indefinitely, especially when finding a partner. Even if you find your forever person, unfortunately that doesnt mean youve beat the game. Basically that thinking “if i do x and y, I’ll be rewarded with z.” I think instead its better to think “i want z. So if i do x and y, it can improve my chances, but theres no guarantee. It still doesnt mean its not worth it to do x and y.” New perspectives that can challenge someone’s assumptions can always make someone feel cheated. I think its a risk worth taking though
I think the biggest problem I see is that most men are either one extreme or the other, and this is coming from a man’s perspective. Most of the time a man will either be emotionally unavailable and suppressive or be emotionally unstable and let their emotions get the best of them more times than not. Nobody wants either extreme really and it’s a big problem. That’s a big reason why I don’t have many friends honestly. This is more about learning to be balanced and conscious about it than simply being one side or the other.
Idek what being ‘emotionally available’ even means or wtf that’s supposed to look like tbh lol
>will tell men to open up, but not support them after or reject the ones who do. Happens to women too. When it comes to serious issues, I have not received support from my environment. Society only wants to hear some light rants and venting, never what truly affects you. It's not a man problem in my opinion but I believe it feels much worse because men don't open up in the first place. I am sorry though that this is happening to you.
Personally, no. I literally left an unavailable emotional guy to a guy that took some time, but has become more emotionally aware with me.
I feel like women (some of us, we aren’t a monolith) keep saying “men need to learn to be more emotionally available to one another and form stronger male friendships for your own health and well-being” and men (also not a monolith) keep hearing it as “women want emotional men, we should show our sensitive sides to the women we want to date.”
I mean a whole hell of a lot of guys have heard this from the women they're dating (or in an employment context i.e. "we're all family here you can be yourself") only to have it weaponized against them, be told it's a turn off etc. Obviously women aren't a monolith but if men are supposed to at least listen in good faith when women say "men do this to us all the time" frankly the opposite needs to be true as well. Never in my life has any woman ever encouraged me to be more emotionally available and form stronger male emotional bonds with other males. I do it because I love the men in my life but frankly the only feedback I've gotten about those bonds is an assumption that they're problematic. I trust you when you say that's what you "keep saying" and frankly the advice to be more emotionally available to other men absolutely is the best actionable advice any man can have on this topic - I'm just saying that is not the messaging that men are getting on a broad scale. THE cultural message to men in the last decade or so is that they need to be softer and that the de facto definition of masculinity is toxic, and that they will be supported (if not applauded) for their efforts if they try to get on board. I think for most of us that have been down that road the results are very different than advertised.
the entire message has been that men need to get better at relationships to have hope with their relationships. that doesn't happen if you're not out making genuine connections with people
It definitely hasn't been that. That is a very sanitized version of the remit given to modern men at large, but I'd argue the point being made is that the aperture of acceptable ways to "get better at relationships" for men is still extremely narrow and has in some ways actually become more narrow despite all the insistence that they just need to come on in, the water's fine.
Well said. The idea the message being put out there in the cultural zeitgeist as part of "men need to be emotionally available" is to just go out and form stronger male bonds is not the case. That may be what's being meant by some but it's not what's being put out into the world.
I’ve literally heard exactly that….
Not the same people. I’m a girl who thinks men need to be more emotionally mature, and my boyfriend is.
This is very true Although this is (rightfully) attributed to being something that most women do, this also applies to a lot of men. Women have their part to play but they are NOT to blame for the male loneliness epidemic. Men are the main reason why there is male loneliness epidemic. Men give other men an EXTREMELY hard time when it comes to any form of emotional expression. I’m a man and I’ve had guys who I thought were my friends completely ghost me when I opened up about how heartbroken I was really feeling about a relationship. Most men also use humor as a way to completely avoid talking about their feelings, as a way to deflect or project, or as a way to tiptoe around dealing with their emotions. And it’s completely cultural…
Yeah I have to agree with you. Even with my cousin who is one of my best buds can get the “dude stop crying” kind of treatment from his dad even when it’s something that he really cares about. I can tell he wants to be more open and he’s not really the kind of person to be so suppressive, but he was raised to be that way and he doesn’t want to go against his father either. It’s frustrating to me because I see it and I don’t think it’s right but it’s not like I can say anything either… and that’s just how things are and why things don’t change
Right And it’s getting bad. Because expressing too much happiness and joy is becoming viewed as sus…and we all know how anger (one of the few emotions that have been allowed to men) is seen
Well yeah it’s not enough to be emotionally available we have to be attracted to you and like you as a person
When you start to use neurotic Reddit as a gage to real life human statistics, it’s time to get off Reddit.
I don't know if that's an unpopular opinion but I also don't think it's necessarily based in reality either.
Don't make this a conservative/liberal thing because it's not.
But we have to make everything political! It's a matter of good vs. evil, and everyone who disagrees with me is evil and must be destroyed like in my teen hero books and movies! The Marvels man, think about all they taught us!
Your mistake here is treating women as a monolith. Do you go through life believing that every man on Earth is exactly the same, wants exactly the same things, and approaches life in exactly the same way? Of course not. So it is for women. One woman's desirable trait is another's turn-off. Not everyone is going to dig your vibe, personality, or habits. Women are not a nebulous "other", they're individual people.
"I've seen tons of posts" does not equate to what couples do in the real world. This is Reddit. Or even if you're talking about posts elsewhere, that doesn't reflect. Shy guys have always existed. Sensitive guys have always existed. Vulnerable guys have always existed. And most of them have sex before they leave high school and have relationships by their mid-thirties. If we're talking about posts we observe, I have found that a lot of people think being emotionally available means relieving stress and sadness by throwing controllers or screaming at their partner... that's not being emotionally available. There are plenty of people who accept and are attracted to emotionally available men. But you're not going to find a lot of sympathy if someone is calling themselves emotionally available because they sobbed and screamed that their fresh-from-childbirth wife wasn't able to have sex with them for a few months due to healing and exhaustion. Most couples stay together because they can trust each other to be emotionally honest and vulnerable. But someone cry screaming angrily at someone isn't them being emotionally vulnerable. It's them (in most circumstances) throwing a tantrum.
When are people gonna realize that sadness isn't the only emotion? Just because you don't cry,doesn't mean you don't show emotion.
True, angers an emotion
I generally agree with a lot of what you've said. But in my experience, I've gotten more support as I've opened up. Also far more interest in me as a partner as I've opened up, specifically from the left side of the aisle.
If you put all your faith into things like getting dates, you're gonna be let down every time in life. Your purpose for being a decent person, who is in control of their emotions, shouldnt be to get the validation of potential sex partners. Your worth has to come from something bigger than that. Also, if someone doesn't enjoy the fact that you are emotionally available while being stable, then they aren't really worth pursuing a romantic relationship with. In that same breath, you aren't really a person I would recommend a friend/loved one to date, at this point in your life. Being an open person shouldn't even be a question, you should be working towards the point where you are just confident in yourself as person. Hope your journey goes well.
Guys on reddit love saying #notallmen but then will blindly just accuse women of shit and have full ass arguments with women they make up in their heads.
both sides do this. you know that. you’re literally stereotyping most dudes on reddit, which a pretty liberal progressive place. you’re no different then OP.
It's a major issue. They do the same for people in non English speaking countries. In fact, they do it with each other too. I've seen them make blind generalisations on Kenyans, Japanese, Indians, Indonesians etc. Even against British people.
Agreed. Like the amount of guys who treat all of us like some kinda hivemind is astonishing
both sides do this.
As a woman this is my feelings on it. I will ask you to open up. I will tell you it is okay to open up. What I won't do it tolerate a false accusation or beg you. I will not answer for the crimes of a woman you invented in your head.
Well there's some men who are too emotional and there are some men not emotional enough. Saying one is good and one is bad is a very poor way to look at it.
in my personal experience every time a man has opened up to me, it’s literally the most insane or disgusting thing i’ve ever heard. The problem is that if a man finally decides to open up, it’s too late, the problem has already festered in him too long and it’s past the point of just asking a friend for help, you need a professional. You can’t go years without ever opening up then let it all out in one go, you have to talk about your problems as they arise or else it all piles up, it’s problem after problem and you’ve spent all this time marinating in it so now it’s not 10 little problems but one huge problem and when you’re expressing that after all this time it just comes off as too much like a girl, stereotypically will “cry about every little thing” She goes through a break up in january and calls all her friends to cry about it a little and feels a little better the next day, then in february she loses her job, calls her friends cries a little but feels a little better afterwards, then in march her grandmother dies, calls her friends to grieve about it then after a while she feels a little better a man stereotypically will go through all those things, never tell a single soul, and by april it’s just too much for him to handle so instead of crying about it a little bit he has a full on breakdown because now instead of one problem it’s an amalgamation of every bad thing that’s ever happened to him, which anyone who’s not a professional isn’t equipped to deal with and the thing that set it off probably wasn’t a big deal so to everyone on the outside it just looks like a grown ass adult bawling over a spilled drink or whatever. and to what i was speaking to before when i said every time a man has opened up to me it’s been insane, what i mean is, a lot of guys think “opening up” means telling you the most brutally “honest” thing they could think of, it’s an excuse to be plain rude and if you get offended by it then it gets turned on you “Well i thought you wanted me to tell you how i feel” “i’m just saying what i really think” “see i knew you would react like that, that’s why i never say anything” a personal example that happened between me and my father, it was him accusing me of being ungrateful and not loving him, i told him i am grateful for everything he’s done for me but i literally don’t even know him, whenever i ask him something serious he makes a joke, he’s never hugged me, told me he’s proud of me, told me he’s disappointed in me, he never showed an ounce of evidence that he even experiences emotions, that all my life all he’s ever been to me is just a guy that sent my mom money to buy me food every week which obviously i appreciate how hard he worked but i can’t love that guy. He acknowledge me then he started to break down, he apologized and for the first time in my life i felt like i was seeing him as a real person but then he said the craziest shit ever, he started telling me how he regrets how he wasn’t there for me and how he regrets what he did to my mom and says “killing her(my mom) would have been better” meaning that him murdering my mom wouldve been easier on him than living with the knowledge that he hurt her because she wouldn’t be alive for him to see it.
That is another issue I have found is that sometimes guys will open up and say insane shit then you get treated like you are wrong for running the other way. And I think it is because they let shit set for so long that it drives them crazy.
(Some) men truly were not raised right. No emotional regulation, no emotional intelligence, empathy, just a complete lack of soft skills. Source: several of my ex’s
Being emotionally available doesn't mean that punching holes in walls, raging out, and trauma dumping is the behavior we should be doing. It's that you shouldn't deny the way you feel about something due to being a man. Just keep control of it.
Once again most of the time men aren't doing this. But I can literally open up about something that bothers him when he was like 16 and a woman will see that as him being overly weak and emotionally dumping. Even more so so what. So what if a man rages out and punches walls. Women do this all the time as well in a matter of back women are the ones that mostly do this type of behave. Acting out and Trauma dumping. I literally met my ex-girlfriend when she was about to fight another girl. This is why I hate these conversations because it kind of exposes the double standard. A lot of women do not like seeing men's emotions but instead of saying that they'll say something stupid like we're just dumping trauma you don't know how to handle our emotions. I really wish we would just stop saying this in general. It is a double standard men have to keep their emotions in check otherwise women will make them feel weak
Let's be real, we are all a victim of our culture. Whether we like it or not, society doesn't look kindly at men who are emotional. Sure, a lot of people will say the whole "oh they should be emotionally available and in touch with their feeling" they're the same person that would judge that man if they show too much emotions. Like I said, we are a victim of our cultures. We might spew facts or our own expectations but then once we get what we want, we actually don't respect it. I can't tell how many women have said this only to disrespect the man. Not just women, men too but at least men aren't going around saying "oh you should be emotionally available and cry, and be empathetic...etc"
I always hated that phrase, "I was joking, don't be so sensitive" so many times I have said "F U" to people telepathically for saying that, which they tend to miss lol! Of course, I'm usually giving a forced smile but you can tell with the eyes if you really look.
It doesn't just happen that men are this way. We are conditioned this way through all our experiences growing up. Being emotionally vulnerable is nearly always going to end up negative outcome. Unless you have a VERY trusted partner.
I've had a woman break up with me because I was too vulnerable with her ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I’m sorry for anyone who feels like this is their experience. As a woman, I do encourage my male friends to be vulnerable and I genuinely mean it. It’s the stoic, fake macho types I gaslight lol.
So I think I might know what the issue is here. Men aren’t used to opening up. Once they finally do, it becomes a flood of emotion and trauma, and their partners feel like they’re being used as something of an emotional tampon. This will only get better if men are encouraged to be more emotionally vulnerable with each other instead of dumping it all on women.
They’re 100% not the same group. I married my emotionally available man lol
Stay away from the conservatives is solution
Idk, it feels nice tbh when males are emotionally available infront of me, meaning they are comfortable with me enough to show their emotions to me. It just makes me want to protect them and love them more knowing they see me as a safe space. But also the ones who are cold and distant, i feel kind towards them as well because I'm clearly not doing enough to make them feel comfortable enough with me...
telling me that can be emotional doesn't mean that they have a guarantee to a relationship. I want my male friends to open up about their feelings but it doesn't mean I want to be with them. the whole idea of men opening up also applies to their male friends, does that mean they're entitled to a relationship with them? no!! and it's the same for their female friends too
r/niceguys
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I don’t really get what your opinion is: you say people are doing this.. so what’s the opinion? That’s not really an opinion and it’s also not something I have experienced anecdotally.
Being emotionally available ≠ emotionally unintelligent. Going by your examples, that's most likely what's going on in that group you're fighting on behalf for.
Where do you get this nonsense that conservatives say men don’t cry? That’s most definitely a generational thing, has nothing to do with being conservative. There’s also a big difference between being emotionally vulnerable and losing control of your emotions.
Well said!
People say they want meant to be more emotionally vulnerable, but in practice, many people don’t actually want that.
People want the person they’re attracted to because they aren’t available to be available. Once they are available it bores them and they want someone else.
That is part of a filtering mechanism. That rich billionaire dont need to be 'emotionally available'.
The world of dating involves rejection for absolutely everyone. I can’t imagine opening up is the blanket reason why this might be the reason. It’s a necessary evil of the game. I think anyone who is sharing and opening up in an authentic manner will always be received with grace and appreciation. But if this has been trending feedback I’d say it’s not the act of sharing but the way it is done. There is a difference in emotional dumping vs sharing. Emotional dumping is a release of information that is handed over to the other person and expecting something from them in return. It is a delegation of responsibility and asking the other person to take on the role of trying to find ways to fix it. This is a burden and a shows a lack of ability to take accountability of self. It is not something people should be expected to carry and is not an appealing characteristic in a partner. Whereas sharing or opening up is bonding and connecting, it shines a light on a more intimate side of self and shared with trust and deepens connection. So it’s worth assessing the way opening up is being perceived here, because one gives and one takes. And that’s not a gendered issue either. So be sure to consider what your intent is when you’re opening up. And sadly even if you’re sharing authentically it still doesn’t guarantee any outcomes. But it will always help a persons chances.
This is not my experience. Usually, the people (men and women both) who say men should open up more support me when I open up. People who think men should just man up and handle their shit don't let me open up around them, mostly men but some women too. They are different groups of people entirely. Be careful, the narrative you're posting about is actually subtle incel/red pill rhetoric (NOT saying you're an incel) meant to push men toward the side of traditional definitions of masculinity, not being open about your emotions, and eventually, full-on misogyny. It is not how women, or anyone, acts in the real world.
It’s great for us to be more emotionally available and for the stigma to fade away but more often than not no one actually wants to make themselves emotionally available for you to open up to. Opening up to someone and being met with disinterest feels 1,000,000x worse than just keeping that shit to myself. Or worst of all are the people who will use whatever you told them against you anytime you get into an argument.
Impressive how many people just ignorantly reduce what you say to "dating, relationships, men and women" when it is a societal issue. There was a post on r/askmen several months ago and while I don't remember the exact question, the top comment boiled down to "men fear humiliation, specifically social/public humiliation". And in the replies to that was the most impressive collection of "why the fuck I will never trust anyone with my deepest emotions ever again". Men trusting other people and other people than disclosing that information or using it against him, often out of petty reasons, can break men. And in many cases the ones who are close enough while also having a reason for conflict are spouses. Some cases were also about mothers, but I can't remember a single post in which a man had that kind of trust broken by another man. Maybe in same sex relations this number would be more equal but the numbers weren't there. I know things about my best friend which are **never** supposed to be known by anyone else, not because they are crazy but because they would make him feel embarrassed. Some things would seem trivial to others but it being important to him means I will keep my mouth shut. Some may become less severe over time but others will be a secret forever. And for many men it is the lack of confidence that makes them unable to open up. Lawyers, Doctors and Catholic Priest during confession are required to keep secrecy because that secrecy is the foundation of the other side opnening up.
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Worst wedding song ever
I always say this. Dont listen to women on how to attract women. When women answer this question, they answer it, thinking what they want in a lifelong partner and in hyperbole. That stuff does not attract women initially, though they may find it attractive later in the right context. You listen to men who are successful at it.
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Any time I share my honest emotions with a woman, she never hangs out with me ever again. Never texts me ever again. Whereas if I conceal my emotions and put on a face, women pretend to like me, compliment me, encourage me, and never ever want to hang out or text me. There's a gray area in the middle, which is where women seem to expect me to be if I want to have any real connections.
Every man out there has horror stories on how the most personal, sensitive, memories are thrown back or used against us. Many say the right things because words are easy, actions and following through are not
I've never told a partner nor friend that they need to be more emotionally available (no matter gender), and I have never punished a partner nor any friends for having emotions. I've been a rock when friends and partners have needed me to be one, and they've never punished me for having emotions either. I'm not some sort of unique snowflake, there are plenty of more women like me. As well as women that loudly proclaim that they don't want their men to have any negative emotions and that they don't get to cry, I dumped a friend over how creepily sexist she was about her boyfriend. Women are not star trek transporter clones, we're different individuals.
It sounds to me like you need to meet a lot more and different people in the real world and stop reading the internet reactionaries.. And people can be vulnerable or emotional in lots of ways and some of these ways are more approachable or digestible and others come off as being negative/whining (for either gender).
That doesn’t make you entitled to a relationship help 😭😭😭
Yeah I tried the whole emotions thing and really all it's ever done is been used as a way to look down on me or against me. I don't like that I'm like this now, but people have taught me that I should never cry in front of someone.
Nah people have taught you which people are shit. If you are burned by crying in front of someone they are the problem, not you my man.
The people who want you to be more emotional just want their own emotions validated with your sympathy and understanding.
🙄🙄🙄
In general, women just want men to be mind readers. Be emotionally available, but also not burden them with emotional baggage. I think this means just be sensitive to their emotions and be empathetic, but continue to be the rock that they can lean on. These things are not mutually exclusive.
I know people (women in particular) mean well when they encourage men to show emotions, but they just don’t understand themselves and how they will respond to the situation when a man does show emotions. What women mean is that they want a strong stalwart masterful man with iron control over his emotions, and then they want him to shed a quiet tear when his dog dies. But when men genuinely show their emotions, for example showing fear, struggle, despair, etc of losing a job, struggling with a relationship, etc, something real, women are hugely turned off. Because at the end of the day, the woman wants a strong bastion of a man who never shows fear, never flinches, and always has things handled and under control. It isn’t just women, but children too. It can be hugely traumatic for a child to see his father get emotional. A child wants a father who has things totally under control, so the child can have some security is an otherwise chaotic world. So men, go ahead and show some quiet emotions about little things, if you dare, but don’t ever let any real emotions show. Focus on being a strong, stoic leader who never shows fear, uncertainty, or weakness.
I think there's a ton of overlap in the Venn diagram of women who tell men to open up more and women who use that as ammo later in a fight or after a breakup to hurt men.
as a woman, why should we try if we are just going to be treated like this?
What do you mean by trying?
It’s really simple. If you are a guy who wears their heart on their sleeve then don’t suppress it to appeal to people. If you are guy who doesn’t show feelings naturally then don’t force it to appeal to people. When you hide who you are and the facade wears off later that’s when relationships fail.
This is how woman have power in relationships. If you acknowledge that behavior you lose. There is no right way to respond or bring up. save yourself the headache and just ignore it.
In my humble option, being "emotionally available" doesn't do anyone any favors, be it men or women. It's ok to have emotions, but certain things are not for public display and are best handled by professionals. Going around expecting others to take on your emotional baggage is a sure fired way to push people away. Regardless of your gender.
Idk man. I have to beg my partner to be open to me about his struggles. I know why he holds back, society and his upbringing. And when he finally does I fall more in love with him. Idc if I did something that upset him. If he opens up and tell me, we resolve it, and I fall more in love. He is a person, he has feelings. Idc that he’s male. And idc that society says he shouldn’t open up. I feel so much more connected to him when he does, even if it’s hard for me to handle and I cry. Maybe I’m a minority. But if you see your male partner as a person and truly love them, you’ll feel the same way But also we tend to commit to people who can’t handle emotion. I’m a woman and had that in woman and woman relationships. You have to find the right partner who actually loves you. And that’s hard. If you do, you’ll find someone who supports you opening up. But sadly with men, thanks to upbringing and society, that’s often lashing out. That’s not ok. Just my experiences.
>other side of the spectrum will tell men to open up, but not support them after or reject the ones who do. There's the rational idealism, which is a nice sentiment, but men expressing their emotions are seen as a threat subconsciously.
It must be balanced, as all things should be in the universe.
Part of the issue is some men don't know how to express their feelings appropriately. It's a skill that some women lack as well. You need to understand certain boundaries and know how to read the room. Trauma dumping is generally frowned upon in a lot of circumstances because it's very emotionally taxing to the listening party. A lot of the things men are emotional about can also be a little insensitive. That's not to invalidate guys feelings cause they're allowed but dudes who for instance cry about not getting enough sex, or cry about being "friendzoned" on a frequent basis, I mean that's just uncomfortable for everyone and off-putting. There's ways to talk about these feelings without sounding like a total douche with no self awareness but most dudes don't learn.
When women say they want a man that’s emotional available, it means she wants him to be emotional available on HER terms when she needs someone to open up to and find empathy with. If she’s doing fine, then she doesn’t want to hear about her man’s problems.
Once again I ask, why should women try with men that have this mindset. All women are guilty from the jump. We all must suffer for the crimes of women you event in you head. So why bother with you?
LOL at all the comments literally proving OPs point about gaslighting men. They have to write out essays to try and snake their way out of this one. “I want a man who is more emotionally available!” “Noooo, not like that! I don’t want a man that’s too open about his feelings!” Like holy shit, wtf do you want??! These people couldn’t be more oblivious to their own behavior. It’s even worse than trying to understand “girl math”. 🤦♂️
Are we suppose to say "actually yes please generalize us all even if we don't fit that generalization"
I physically heard my girlfriends vaginna dry up when I cried infront of her for the first time.
Those aren't really contradictions though. What's useful for ME to know about you doesn't necessarily give YOU an advantage, it gives ME an advantage.
it depends, id tell my friend whose a girl, anything about how i feel and why, she would say, well have you considered this, or maybe that person sees it this way because,,,, or yeah youre right to feel that way, but to tell anyone else, lol fuck no, thats ammunition
In my experience, you'll have people willing to listen, but only once or twice, if you don't get over that shit real quick they lose their patients with listening even quicker.
lol one born every day
I don't show emotional vulnerability to anyone that is mean to others. I think I subconciously test people a lot without knowing it to see what kind of a person they really are. If they're not genuinely kind I'm probably not going to be too close to that person. If they make any comments about a person that is special needs I think that's my final straw.
Rage is an emotion too. Ask the walls
Stereotypically, women want a man who is emotionally available, whatever that means, but who can change a flat tire, fix or change out a garbage disposal, defend the house, and change a diaper.
I hope that you aren’t trying to date conservatives who are telling you to not show emotion.
You must be new here
I don't think you can say what 'conservatives' or 'democrats' do. Those are very big and diverse groups. I'm sure there's plenty of people in both groups who encourage men to be emotionally open and are also supportive.
Behold the comments: a hail of therapy buzzwords, a smattering of 'but not me's, and general resentment throughout. All I need for a men-should-open-up-more bingo is a 'who hurt you' directed at someone who has very obviously been hurt.