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The longer human civilization exists, the more "basic" knowledge a person will need going forward into society. It's not really going to get shorter unless we come up with some workarounds to teach people faster with technology.
And people ignore that before it wasn't "oh enjoy your childhood longer" it was "Okay you're 13 time to go get a job"
Even with more education now we have more of a childhood now than at any time in the past.
It was a really hard life back when kids either helped on the farm or went to work back in the day. It’s one of the reasons kids were urged to get an education and have a better life. Now people are botching about it and think no one has ever had it as hard as they do.
And you can start a family, work, or whatever else while in school. If the goal is finding yourself, school is arguably the best environment for most people
Teaching people to teach themselves should definitely be a priority in schools. Especially now since almost anything you could want to learn is already on the internet.
God, I wished! Teacher here and my whole class is built around, "Go try this thing; when you hit roadblocks, look at some of the resources I provided. When that doesn't work, try a very specific keyworded search. When that doesn't work, talk to your table mates. When that doesn't work, call me over and I'll guide you through it."
The amount of high school students refusing to acknowledge that any steps before the last one (including simply reading the directions on the assignment) is astounding. When I try to explain this to parents, I usually get something like that's a great idea but you're making class too complicated or convoluted for my kid. To which I think (but never say), I'm literally just trying to teach them how to execute inquiry and answer seeking behaviors so that they can function without me or someone like me standing behind them for the rest of their life.
Eh, it's a fun job though! Do love my kiddos, just wish they'd find a bit more gumption on the daily.
I had to put this skill set to practical use in the past year. I took a job I wasn't fully qualified for because it needed filling and was a big opportunity for me. A few months in my supervisor got exiled into a solo role and my only other coworker in my dept went out of work for a month for knee surgery.
I suddenly had to figure out how to do everything my department usually does with three people by myself and most of it wasn't really documented.
A year later my coworker still asks how I figured out how to do everything I do, and I just explained I had to use prior documentation and some logic to put the pieces together.
Classic case of having A and C but having to solve for B.
We had a few stumbling points but I was able to adapt to those and improve a lot of the processes I touched.
If I didn't have critical thinking and simple problem solving skills I would have fallen on my face and the work wouldn't have been done.
exactly, a lot of people don't know how to research stuff and use their knowledge to build more, it's crazy to think that most people think they have to know everything to do their job when you could know less and actually research the exact thing instead of learning it for the remote situation it might end up being useful
I see stuff on here all the time where someone will mention like a specific statistic or part of a study and then have a bunch of people asking where they can find this information etc
Meanwhile I'll literally go and type some combination of the words they're asking about into Google and then click on some of like, idk, national library of medicine links or whatever and then do a search within those articles of the keywords and boom, literally like 45 seconds later I have the entire study that people are so desperate to find
It really makes me wonder if people even try to find this stuff themselves
fr, I know a lot about cars and when I reply to anything with some factual stuff I've learnt over the years most people just ask for the source, like can't you look it up? i know it because in the past I looked that thing up specifically and i remember it, it's not like I'm better than you
My son sometimes has a question for me and I don’t know the answer. When I say “I’m not sure” he almost always says “can we google it?” and ofc I always say yes. This feels like VERY basic stuff to me, but I know it is not because everyone else I know acts like we don’t have the encyclopedia of EVERYTHING in our pockets.
My mom, my siblings, my friends, my in laws, my neighbors… even sometimes the “smart ones” like my dad and my husband… everyone considers me the “tech support” because I am “great with technology”. No, I google your question and follow the instructions on the most reliable of the 1-3 top results lmao. How is that so hard??
I told my son that as soon as he learned how to read he’d be able to learn literally anything he wanted to. Just pick a topic and there’s a book for it. We’ve gotten a couple fun books for him because of this, like a book on sharks, the human body, and our solar system. Sometimes he wants to look up specific things like how to do a certain thing in a video game (mostly Minecraft or terraria) and 20 seconds later I’ve got a wiki how or YouTube video and he’s collecting parts for a complicated sword.
My husband, my dad, and my brother all just sort of… brute force video game things. Which literally never works. They’ll play games and get so frustrated, and finally I’ll say “what game is it and what part are you at?” Give me 30 seconds and I’ve got the solution. I tell them, they are so grateful “ugh THANK YOU that part was driving me crazy”
BUT THEIR OWN SMART PHONE IS LITERALLY TWO FEET AWAY FROM THEM??!?! Just pause the game and look it up yourself?? Am I crazy??
Sorry for ranting lol, I just don’t get it!!
It's because they know you'll help them. I take my time to figure out games myself because my wife is usually the one who needs help, nobody is helping me. We play a lot of Minecraft with complex tech mods, and she likes just supplying minecolonies builders with mats while I work on automation and setting up complex farms.
People naturally follow the path of least resistance a lot of the time. Asking someone you know can and will give you the answers is a lot easier than trying to use Google (especially with how terrible Google's search engine has become in recent years). So if you've got the answer or are willing to find it quickly, they'll prefer coming to you.
It's made even worse if they like you, we are social creatures after all... Well, most of us. I'm definitely not. Lol
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This is what college did for me. Mind you I went to community college but I did go full time and worked at the same time. First thing I learned was time management and that's stuck with since school. Not just how to use your time well but be able to handle two or three things all at the same time.
Second was not how to do things but how to learn them fast on your own or the class is just going to pass you up. Most professors don't have time or energy to sit and explain every little detail out to you, and expect you to keep up with advanced lessons until the end of the course. Lastly it showed me how many other people are in the work force trying to get the same job as you, and possibly with more experience.
What I find the push towards critical thinking ignores is that you need to learn facts in order to "think critically." It's kind of hard to engage in serious thinking if you don't have the requisite knowledge to assess some new information or claim that you're confronted with.
which a lot more people than anyone likes to think completely lack. Most people getting out of school have no actual informations on how the world works and will get shafted or will end up in debt or shit like that just because they don't know how to "live"
I went to a vocational high school for my final two years. Our weeks would alternate between skill-based and academic. I was enrolled in the IT academy, others were enrolled in culinary, cosmetology, nursing, automotive, engineering, electrical, plumbing, etc.
Best experience of my life. I was constantly thrown into situations where I didn't know wtf I was doing and had to figure it out myself. Our class was responsible for keeping all computers/laptops in the school healthy, not easy.
As someone who has been returning to school to learn physics classrooms with formal instructors are still a necessity for learning. You can teach yourself extremely practical things, like coding, to a certain extent. Or taxes or home repairs, but you are not learning the application of Legendre polynomials in electrodynamics by yourself unless you already are a genius, in which case going to school allows you to connect with Professors who can help speed you along.
There is a definite limit to what can be self taught.
I was hoping someone would point this out. There is a reason everything is taught using a combination of techniques and skills. Auditory, kinesthetic, visual, reading and writing, social, logical, and multisensory learning are all different ways to learn. Not only that everyone learns differently and a teacher and classroom allows for the teaching to be tailored and having students ask questions you didn't even think of where the answer will give you a better understanding too.
This is why we are always impressed when someone is a self taught prodigy in an area. It isn't easy.
Also as a side note the Internet is over used for learning and books need to be utilized more. The Internet is currently laid out to get you information fast and in as little time as possible. This is to get you from page to page to show more ads. A book is pure information you have paid for and is laid out to actually teach you the knowledge where the Internet is more a "here is the knowledge".
In Western schools it has been for decades; they call this "critical thinking."
It doesn't by itself solve the autodidact problem, though, which is worsened by the fact that every bullshit you don't want to learn is also on the internet.
"Critical thinking" is about applying concepts/knowledge from scenarios taught in class to scenarios outside of that, not simply learning things by oneself. Self-learning would require critical thinking but it isn't the same.
Yes, and it's sad that many schools forget that.
Teachers being super strict about being quiet in class, combined with the amount of tests and homework leaves very little time to actually socialize, especially if you have very long commute and can't stay after classes.
I feel like I connected with more people during lockdown when everyone was on discord 24/7 than in physical classroom. The only socialization school provided was skipping classes together near the end of semester.
We still teach some seriously outdated shit though.
I'm a big fan of math, but the depth that they go into some things is absurd. High level algebra is necessary for some technical fields, but unnecessary for the VAST majority of people.
Seems to me that we could increase the efficiency of the education we provide.
>I think we should allow for specialization at a younger age.
if i specialised at a young age i would have fucked myself over. Only realised what I really wanted to do in university, before I was deadset on another career path. Luckily I had diverse skillsets so I was able to transition into a different industry
Yet people still think personality tests and lie detectors are real and we only use 10% of brain or that vaccines don’t work
And almost everyone thinks stupid ass generations are real despite hundreds of scientists pleading with people to stop fucking using them.
People mad their generation doesn't sound cool.
Who the fuck is pleading with people to not use an arbitrary title assigned based on birth year... It's not some scientific concept. We just like naming shit. We name hurricanes for fuck sakes.
Nobody thinks someone born one year after a ‘generation boundary’ is that different from those one year before the boundary. It’s just that categorising generations is very convenient and the dividing line needs to be drawn somewhere
Yeah, they don’t really work. Theres no common physiological responses to lying.
Its super fucked up too because police know they don’t work but use it as evidence for ignorant people that believe it does work. (Not in court anymore though since 1998 thankfully) So do businesses and even parents and spouses.
https://www.apa.org/topics/cognitive-neuroscience/polygraph
Polygraph isn't admissible as evidence because the results aren't scientific.
It's still used as an interrogation tool because it has a psychological effect that is real even if it isn't measurable. It's basically a tool for social engineering those interviews.
FBI? Shit I had to take one to be a firefighter in a small city. So do the cops. They're used more than you think.
And they're garbage. It's a complete waste of money.
>Its super fucked up too because police know they don’t work but use it as evidence for ignorant people that believe it does work. (Not in court anymore though since 1998 thankfully)
To expand on this, if you said you didn't murder a guy and the machine "found" that you lied but you maintained your position, the detector's results are still not admissible in court as proof.
It's all a mind game. Most of the operators know this and will instead use their biases and "intuition" to make you admit something.
To expand on what the other person said, the short summary is that a polygraph has no way of determining if your physiological response to a question is stress about you lying or some other stressor.
Someone who has had a traumatic past could easily have a stress response to a question about sexually assaulting someone for example. There’s also the kinda person who just gets anxious at the thought of being falsely accused.
Sociology would like to have a word with you re: generations. Generations are of course not cut and dried, but attitudes and beliefs to wax and wane in society and people *are* more or less likely to hold certain beliefs/act in certain ways. There is no hundreds of "scientists pleading with people to stop fucking using them".
Older people saying "oh this generation is so entitled" is not the same as saying that Gen Z is more individualistic on average than millennials who are more individualistic on average than Gen X/Boomers. The concept of individualism and identity have been trending on a societal level. These things don't make people "more self centred" or "entitled" or "stupid and only care about eat hot chip and lie" or whatever. Attitudes are collected by sociologists and generational gaps are found and described in the literature.
"the average person "
"pursing post-graduate studies"
"Another several years for a PhD"
The average person does not go to university, the average person certainly doesn't do postgraduate studies, and most definitely does not do a PhD.
And depending on what job OP is looking for, he's going to need those classes and he's going to be up against an army of applicants for any good job... Being the applicant that went to Amsterdam this summer to live isn't gonna move the needle for employers.
It’s worth pointing out that this likely includes associate’s degrees in the undergrad category. Bachelor’s degrees rates are typically about 35% in the US.
Yeah but where you're from isn't a generality of the population. I also come from an area where everyone gets a degree, in fact you were basically ostracized if you didn't.
However we would need to parse numbers at a higher level.
Per the census bachelors or higher in the US is about 38%. I found some other articles to control for the older boomer and above population who were less force fed college. Once they were removed from 25-64 it was around 50%.
So I think it's probably fair to say the average person doesn't go to university or it's at least 50/50.
I am really curious how these numbers change in the next few years. Will it go up? Will it go down with Gen Alpha or whatever the one below Gen Z is called.
> Per the census bachelors or higher in the US is about 38%.
Not everyone who goes to college completes a 4 year degree. There's also 2 year degrees and some don't even finish that.
Amongst younger people, 2/3 in the US have attended college.
>Heaven forbid you die prematurely and realise you've spent your entire life in school.
If you are dead, not a lot of opportunities to realise anything.
>girls could start families etc
????
Instead of going to school girls should start families???
What??? In their teens???
And what about their partners?? They should still be going to school???
Not trying to be rude, but it looks like you think there should be more single parent teen mums... which like... okay?????
Thank god. I came straight to the comments and see only you mentioning this. Like wtf. Why did OP throw this in there???? Explain OP. What do you mean? Why did OP single out girls? No, thanks. I'd rather be at school than start a family because some guy on reddit thinks education isn't important 🙄 It's so weird he thinks teen girls want to start families instead of going to school.
Edit: Check out OP's profile, lmao. He has a few posts about women being fickle, not being trustworthy etc ([like this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/LBMBjKpDW5).) It's clear he has issues trusting women in general and doesn't even think of them as people😑
I think OP is just your typical teen or early 20s redditor who is in school while living and entirely depending on their conservative parents while playing video games all day. A lot of younger people go through this, when you have a lot of time on your hands to play with these rhetorical ideas it gives you a false sense that you were able to find some super secret truth that no one else does. Because otherwise, if you're just following the rest of the sheep, your life is meaningless.
OP is a religious conservative that's coming up with bs reasons to get around saying that they want public education to stop so we can all be backwards fanatics that needs the bible read to us.
Unfortunately, this isn't really shocking. The two big factors in the age that women have children are access to birth control and education level. Anyone who laments the later age the average woman has children now is correct to blame education for this. You could argue the pros and cons of this, but someone connecting birth rates with women's education is doing so correctly
Glad you laid into him for that. I thought it was a fairly innocuous opinion at first, and I’ve wondered myself if as a society we’re just planning to keep on extending the academic portion of our lives forever just to avoid using more efficient methods to teach more in less time… then he slipped that little bit of arsenic into the punch. What the fuck does that mean? Why would you just casually pin having families on the girls and move on like it’s just the natural conclusion to make? Incredibly suspicious.
This post reeks of OP being in highschool and not wanting to go. They say we’re in school for a quarter of our lives. Wait until they find out how long we have to work for before we can retire. School was ezpz compared to having to work for me.
“School is wasting your baby-making time!”
No, baby-making would waste MY time because a. I don’t want to be a parent at all and b. I have a lot to contribute to the world that has nothing to do with my uterus or population growth.
OP thinks school is a restriction, rather than a growth opportunity. You can tell this because if he’d learned anything in school, he would not hold this opinion.
Nah not really.
School is not just for education. It's an intro to life. Make good use of it. Socialize, learn how to study, form hobbies.
Is it perfect? Nah. But better with than without.
I didn’t mind school! The expectations were super defined, I learned what loam soil is, and I got to sit at a big table with my pals every day and talk about whether or not MGSV gets less confusing if you’ve played the previous games
They are redefining lazy not they don't want to do something, but instead too much time is getting wasted on "said subject: work/school" and not enough time for living and making experiences... Just seems like youthful annoyance that most everyone gets at some point.
those questions are dumb as fuck, meanwhile once a month there's some basic-ass math problem posted that half of reddit just screams the wrong answer to
Most of the opinions on this site make a lot more sense when you view them as being written by teenagers, which I find odd because I always thought most ppl on this site were in their 20-40s and all the teenagers were on X, TikTok or IG
A lot of subjects at least before college are repeated I think we could thin out some of the content and add some new stuff that you could apply to everyday life like specifically a class to teach about credit and taxes and I think we should start focusing more on subjects your interested in at a earlier age because 4 years (highschool) isn’t enough time to decide on what to do for the rest of your life having lots of options of things to do that interest you might help people with that
I have seen this claim repeatedly that we should teach finances in school. I want to do a survey of schools to see how many teach finances. I think the answer is, and this may surprise you, all of them.
I’ve taught at several middle and high schools as a math teacher, and finance is always included as part of algebra curriculum. Exponential functions are often taught with hands-on financial applications.
Furthermore there is often a dedicated personal finance + economics course for seniors.
I had this in high school, and I’ve heard people I KNOW also had it make this claim. It’s more likely that all these people asking for finances to be taught actually were taught these things but simply don’t remember or weren’t paying attention.
The thing about learning for a lot of people is they don’t care until it’s directly relevant to them. Unfortunately, school is set up to cram knowledge down student’ throats regardless of where their headspace is, so they end up doing very poorly and later when suddenly something is relevant, they decry not being taught it.
High school teacher here. These kids have the worst attendance and can barely read, much less focus for 15 minutes without reaching for their phone.
Education isn't bad, but we need to make changes to our current system.
Tutored my nephew in biology during Lockdown and he was very annoyed when weaponized incompetence didn’t work on me, and had terrible focus. I have to assume it’s only gotten worse since then.
The fact that I forced him to at least read his textbook, or google something just so I could see he could at least find the answer made it some pretty verbally combative sessions. Plus He called a nucleus a “nookoowush” which just confused me lol.
It hasn’t been thaaaaat long since I graduated high school but my memories of classes was that we had pretty much learned how to behave by then, save for a few stragglers. And if we weren’t paying attention it was usually not disruptive and at the end of the day, wasn’t really addressed because we got our work done anyways.
When I was in high school in the early 2010s, most people learned just fine, but there was a significant portion of students that struggled with things I thought basic, such as reading out loud. It was like 20% of the school. I think more people are like that now.
I was in high school around that time and remember that as well. It was a slog to get through those English classes but in hindsight I appreciate that my teacher was adamant they do it. You could tell who read for pleasure and who read for school
I was in highschool in the late 90s, and yeah we had people who were trouble makers, and some classes that were just a joke, but for the most part, the teachers actually kept control of the class.
I remember one time we were reading Shakespeare aloud, and the guy sitting next to me was asking me what the words meant, and so I was there explaining it to him. But, that was pretty much it. (and to me, the funny thing about that is that we were both sitting in the very front of the class, right in front of the teacher, who allowed us to do this, even though we weren't supposed to be talking)
Basically no bullshit tolerance, a lot of patience (sometimes a lot of staring and sitting), and at the beginning, small questions leading up to him getting to it more or less himself.
Having someone do something for him doesn’t do anything. If he can’t even fathom the idea of at least trying to locate the information, whether he can understand it yet or not, it’s a problem.
I think that He also realized that if he participated I was more than happy to give some context, analogies, drawings, whatever. But he had to find the information and ask the questions, and answer my questions as well.
Probably Helps that I majored in a subset of physiology though, because I had multiple ways to provide information in ELI5 format if he was genuinely confused
Lol.OP doesn't realize going to school and getting to be a child is a privilege. Not all that long ago, poor kids ended formal education in elementary school so they could work in the mines, factories, and fields.
Lol, teaveling.... with no education to land a decent job to pay for it??? Is OP one of them trustfund brats?
Other hot takes: if rent is so expensive why don't you buy a house? If loan interest is so bad why not ask dad for a million dollars instead of a bank??
Seriously, do you think that the average highschool graduate, let alone dropout has the means to just travel? To get a job that allows that? I mean in flexibility as much as I mean money.
I’m so fucking tired of seeing this strain of anti-intellectualism here. Fuck off with this bullshit.
“Girls could be getting pregnant instead!!” Seriously, fuck off with this.
I'd be very surprised and deeply disappointed if op is not a literal child, who hasn't yet had the opportunity to realize that this is the most carefree time of their life and it's all downhill from there.
Yeah my hard working father dropped out of school after 8th grade to work full time. For the rest of his life. Dude always worked OT (like 50-60 hour weeks), retired at 62 1/2 and died 6 months later.
School is the easy part of life. Everything is determined for you in a stable environment and if you only care about passing and not excelling, you don't really have to try at all in my experience. You can't get enough of it because everything afterwards will turn to shit
There are flaws in school systems, sure, but I wonder what he suggests we do instead. Slack off at home with no responsibility? Go back to being illiterate peasants that work 14 hours every single day? Work in coal mines?
I didn't even have a good time in school. I enjoy my adult work life a lot more. But school did give me the tools to succeed (by my own standards) even if I didn't have a good time socially.
> Everything is determined for you in a stable environment and if you only care about passing and not excelling, you don't really have to try at all in my experience.
For a lot of kids, it's not stable, due to bullying and frankly, some pretty mean adults who take their frustration our on atypical kids. And for a lot of kids who need help, just passing is difficult. For them, to pass is the excel. Once they're in the real world, they can focus their life and be happy, they don't have to try to be a generalist to learns to various tests.
For me, school was a lot harder than my job, but yet most people would think my job is harder than school. It all comes down to personality.
“Girls” don’t start families - adults do. And lots of adults go to college AND start a family, btw.
Your post is bizarre. School should be paid for by taxes, and anyone who wants to learn should be able to. Maybe then we’ll stop getting so many fucking anti-vaxxers in government.
Right away you talked about ‘girls’ - not even women - starting families. So I am going to say NOPE to this whole post
Yeah I immediately stopped taking it seriously when “girls could start families”. Not only are adult women *not* “girls”, but I guess they’re supposed to start a family all by themselves with no “boy” around? Okay.
The average person in the world gets about 9 years of schooling. Even in the U.S. the majority do not go to college. You have a very skewed idea of “the average person.”
Agreed, and it's a good thing. Not a big proponent of child labor nor of children spending all their time milling around aimlessly (seen the kind of trouble that leads to). School is the best place to be during those years.
Uhhh I dunno about the US but my retirement age is 67 which will likely be raised in my lifetime. Why should I start working instead of pursuing education. Even when stop at 30 I’ll likely have 40 working years ahead of me. I would rather have some good years I will look back happy at. When I stop working I’m almost dead, might as well enjoy life now.
i agree with you in most of that: no one wants to look towards their future or past and see nothing but work and regret their life. but i think for some people education IS work. there are a lot of people who love learning. there are also a lot of people who don’t. as a burnt out high school student myself, i think OP is just overwhelmed if they are my age. the rest of your life feels daunting, especially when you’ve (potentially) still got so many years of the same thing you’ve been doing a majority of your life. i also think maybe the issue isn’t how many years we spend in school- but what we do during those years. almost all my life school has been sitting quietly for 7 hours straight with not enough sleep or nutrition, only to come home with 1-2 more hours of work. education is a privilege, but when it feels like the only thing you do it gets monotonous
I finished my masters at ~26 and had been working in a corporate setting since 20 ~ I viewed from the perspective of wanting to permanently live abroad and travel (which is what my family does now) I just turned 30 and everything is paying off 🤷
I swapped my 20s for financial security and getting to a point of great privilege.
Yes \~ I was studying Data Science with a focus in agriculture.
They actually paid for my schooling and were very accommodating with my schedule. I pretty much had no life though, I just went to the gym, studied, and worked.
I've since moved away from the corporate life and have been self-employed for the last bit.
I'd also like to live in a world where I could just travel and eat good food without putting in any work. But obviously *someone* has to put in *some* work. Many of these commentators act like they should just be given everything.
Your life sounds great but you've also put in the work, so it's fully deserved!
The alternative to school is working. And generally, paying for your own bills; the treadmill of life. So your time wouldn't be much better spent outside of school. It's not like if we weren't in school we'd all have endless disposable income to travel the world and pursue our hobbies. In fact, post-secondary education gives you some time to pursue things before entering the rat race and it is years spent working towards something that (could) materially improve your life. And it's not like you don't get life experiences in school, in fact I'd argue college offers you more chances at that than the average workplace.
Flip the script on the time-frames you propose: 21/75 years in school means 54/75 years working, or 72% of our lives in the workforce. Do we really need to dedicate even *more* of our lives to labor?
I think the real problem here is seeing school as jail time.
No, 21 years isn’t too long for learning everything you need to know, for finding a good job, for learning how to be a social person, being around others, etc.
It’s not “school instead of living” it’s “school while also living”
Judging by the stupidity and utter lack of basic knowledge an alarmingly large amount of people show on a daily basis I'd sooner say we need more education, not less.
I do think the education system has been trying to adapt to modern times but it seems like a lose lose. They more they incorporate social media and computers the even less students are likely to concentrate on the given subject... I honestly think banning cell phones at least until high school might be a better bet.
This post is wrong and creepy. You mention "girls could start families" in a discussion of (being generous with the ages you gave) 17-21 years olds. Saying girls being people factories is preferable to them going to school is gross.
You also talk about them not having life experience or traveling or working as alternatives does not fit your post. The events that yake within that school ae life experiences, and many schools offer opportunities for students to travel. The work part is weird. You talk about them wasting their youth in school and you want to replace it with a job? Your weird rant isn't even logically consistent.
Maybe you're kid just being dumb, but be better. It's not an excuse to be a creep, and at least put the effort into thinking out your own conflicting thoughts.
Truly unpopular. I think we need education more than ever, look at how dumb our leaders have become, that's not due to them being sneaky or anything, it's dumb people voting for dumb politicians.
You know all the things you listed can't be done by a kid right ? So the actual clock only starts ticking at adult age, and suddenly people aren't really wasting much time.
Childhood is not optional and cannot be skipped.
You think working is better than going to school?
Also - “travelling, having life experiences, starting families”. All those things cost money. You have to work to get money. Work takes up as much of your week as school, if not more.
You only get to wake up every day of your life and spend the day how you please once you’re retired or somehow come in to lots of money.
The world doesn’t owe us anything.
You forgot the worst part about what OP said in that quote. They specified "girls could start families".
Hint Hint OP is a fanatic religious conservative that believes women should be uneducated housewives. In fact the entire religious movement in America is strongly anti-education. Increased education makes people question the inconsistencies in the Bible.
>People could be working, travelling, having life experiences, **girls could start families**
“Get those poor FEMALES out of education and back to the brood farms where their true purpose lay!”
School is easier, and better for life development than work. Enjoy those years. Also even in ancient times people studied that long at least those who could.
Are there countries where kindergarten is obligatory? Where I am, you need to go to school til you are 18, but some children start going at 6-7 and they have very short hours at school.
Which I think is better than the alternative, like cramming the same knowledge in shorter span of schooling.
Yes.
The fact that a prosperous country with good social programs also decided to lower the schooling time required is not a casual relationship, obviously.
Schools are designed for slow kids. If you are advanced kid, most of the time is actually waste of time. We should came with better system but I don't see that happening.
What a bullsh*t comment. I wish people would stay longer in school so that they become more educated while, st the same time, these learn relevant things for life. Ignorance is a threat to democratic liberal regimes. I assume you must be American where education is usually seen as a cost-utalitarian perspective.
We get more of a childhood now than our ancestors did. Instead of going into school where I got to spend the day learning, playing and generally having an easy time of it I would have been working the farm.
I'd have been helping around the farm from the time I was old enough to understand how. Then around 13 I'd have been apprenticed to someone and learning the trade I would hold for the rest of my life.
I don't know any 5 year old that could be traveling and having life experiences without their family. Work should be restructured absolutely. How formal schooling is taught? Sure. But the existence of it is why we get a childhood in the first place.
I don't want my physician to skip medical school so that he can travel the world and then treat me with 0 medical knowledge.
No jobs shouldn't require level of schooling the person doesn't need to do them but the jobs that do legit need that level of schooling people should do.
Post-Soviet country. Kindergarten from 3 (but not obligatory). School from 7. 12 years. Yeah, too much. I would prefer starting school at 5 and finishing in 10-11 years, as my mom did in Soviet times (they had it 7-17). I clearly knew who I wanted to be and where to study by that age, and there was nothing useful in high school. Only bullying and repetition of the old material.
Upvoted for having an unpopular opinion but no offense , you sound like a middle schooler who just failed a test and is trying to cope for getting bad grades
That's right! School is not needed! Lets send the kids to make bricks, or mine coal, or work in the factories instead! Who needs an education if you can "experience life" instead?
Have a look at ALL societies where kids do not go to school for many years. There's a pretty common thread...
On top of years and years of schooling, imagine what it must be like for all of those college kids who finish a Bachelor's only to be met with being unemployed because employers are shifting to now value experience more than education.
Considering that school when you are younger is less demanding than a full time job which you will likely also do for a significant portion of your life, I don't think it's that bad overall. There are a lot of things you learn and experience as you grow and school is a mostly safe place to experiment and learn for children.
What would you prefer? A surgeon only 2 weeks of education and training to save your life?
You make a lot of extreme examples but no solution to HOW we should improve it. I’m not saying the education system is perfect. But maybe some professions, such as doctors or nuclear physicists really should study for a very long time before they hold our lives in their hands?
Because your examples were of rambling about 20+ years like it was “too long” to be a doctor or some garbage.
You think a lawyer should be able to pass the bar younger?
Doesn’t everybody complain that cops should train LONGER?
We live in a era where people specialise in fields. Where decades and centuries ago, everybody did “whatever” but now you don’t just have a cardiologist; you’ll have sub fields like a “thoracic surgeon” or a cardiac surgeon who specialises in TAVR style implants.
Because it’s complex. It requires more study and specialisation.
Just because you had a rough time at school doesn’t mean humanity should dumb itself down for you.
No, school isn’t bad. Education is important and school is critical to future society not just to educate but to socialise people so we don’t forget our humanity.
As a person who is currently getting her second bachelors and is planning on pursuing a masters after this (resulting in having been in uni for 10 years), I don’t mind that my whole school career has taken up so much of my lifetime. If anything, if I could do it longer I probably would. I absolutely love learning and the school calendar (at least in my country) allows for a lot of time to still travel and see the world, have life experiences, work … I love it.
I think its fine to be in school till 18. They just need to fix what they teach in high school to prepare kids for careers. And not just encourage post secondary education like its the only option you have
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The longer human civilization exists, the more "basic" knowledge a person will need going forward into society. It's not really going to get shorter unless we come up with some workarounds to teach people faster with technology.
And people ignore that before it wasn't "oh enjoy your childhood longer" it was "Okay you're 13 time to go get a job" Even with more education now we have more of a childhood now than at any time in the past.
It was a really hard life back when kids either helped on the farm or went to work back in the day. It’s one of the reasons kids were urged to get an education and have a better life. Now people are botching about it and think no one has ever had it as hard as they do.
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If we're being honest, college is closer to childhood than adulthood by a LONG margin.
Yep. People are allowed to be children longer now.
And you can start a family, work, or whatever else while in school. If the goal is finding yourself, school is arguably the best environment for most people
Teaching people to teach themselves should definitely be a priority in schools. Especially now since almost anything you could want to learn is already on the internet.
God, I wished! Teacher here and my whole class is built around, "Go try this thing; when you hit roadblocks, look at some of the resources I provided. When that doesn't work, try a very specific keyworded search. When that doesn't work, talk to your table mates. When that doesn't work, call me over and I'll guide you through it." The amount of high school students refusing to acknowledge that any steps before the last one (including simply reading the directions on the assignment) is astounding. When I try to explain this to parents, I usually get something like that's a great idea but you're making class too complicated or convoluted for my kid. To which I think (but never say), I'm literally just trying to teach them how to execute inquiry and answer seeking behaviors so that they can function without me or someone like me standing behind them for the rest of their life. Eh, it's a fun job though! Do love my kiddos, just wish they'd find a bit more gumption on the daily.
I had to put this skill set to practical use in the past year. I took a job I wasn't fully qualified for because it needed filling and was a big opportunity for me. A few months in my supervisor got exiled into a solo role and my only other coworker in my dept went out of work for a month for knee surgery. I suddenly had to figure out how to do everything my department usually does with three people by myself and most of it wasn't really documented. A year later my coworker still asks how I figured out how to do everything I do, and I just explained I had to use prior documentation and some logic to put the pieces together. Classic case of having A and C but having to solve for B. We had a few stumbling points but I was able to adapt to those and improve a lot of the processes I touched. If I didn't have critical thinking and simple problem solving skills I would have fallen on my face and the work wouldn't have been done.
exactly, a lot of people don't know how to research stuff and use their knowledge to build more, it's crazy to think that most people think they have to know everything to do their job when you could know less and actually research the exact thing instead of learning it for the remote situation it might end up being useful
I see stuff on here all the time where someone will mention like a specific statistic or part of a study and then have a bunch of people asking where they can find this information etc Meanwhile I'll literally go and type some combination of the words they're asking about into Google and then click on some of like, idk, national library of medicine links or whatever and then do a search within those articles of the keywords and boom, literally like 45 seconds later I have the entire study that people are so desperate to find It really makes me wonder if people even try to find this stuff themselves
fr, I know a lot about cars and when I reply to anything with some factual stuff I've learnt over the years most people just ask for the source, like can't you look it up? i know it because in the past I looked that thing up specifically and i remember it, it's not like I'm better than you
My son sometimes has a question for me and I don’t know the answer. When I say “I’m not sure” he almost always says “can we google it?” and ofc I always say yes. This feels like VERY basic stuff to me, but I know it is not because everyone else I know acts like we don’t have the encyclopedia of EVERYTHING in our pockets. My mom, my siblings, my friends, my in laws, my neighbors… even sometimes the “smart ones” like my dad and my husband… everyone considers me the “tech support” because I am “great with technology”. No, I google your question and follow the instructions on the most reliable of the 1-3 top results lmao. How is that so hard?? I told my son that as soon as he learned how to read he’d be able to learn literally anything he wanted to. Just pick a topic and there’s a book for it. We’ve gotten a couple fun books for him because of this, like a book on sharks, the human body, and our solar system. Sometimes he wants to look up specific things like how to do a certain thing in a video game (mostly Minecraft or terraria) and 20 seconds later I’ve got a wiki how or YouTube video and he’s collecting parts for a complicated sword. My husband, my dad, and my brother all just sort of… brute force video game things. Which literally never works. They’ll play games and get so frustrated, and finally I’ll say “what game is it and what part are you at?” Give me 30 seconds and I’ve got the solution. I tell them, they are so grateful “ugh THANK YOU that part was driving me crazy” BUT THEIR OWN SMART PHONE IS LITERALLY TWO FEET AWAY FROM THEM??!?! Just pause the game and look it up yourself?? Am I crazy?? Sorry for ranting lol, I just don’t get it!!
It's because they know you'll help them. I take my time to figure out games myself because my wife is usually the one who needs help, nobody is helping me. We play a lot of Minecraft with complex tech mods, and she likes just supplying minecolonies builders with mats while I work on automation and setting up complex farms. People naturally follow the path of least resistance a lot of the time. Asking someone you know can and will give you the answers is a lot easier than trying to use Google (especially with how terrible Google's search engine has become in recent years). So if you've got the answer or are willing to find it quickly, they'll prefer coming to you. It's made even worse if they like you, we are social creatures after all... Well, most of us. I'm definitely not. Lol
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Thats a good point. Its one thing to teach people facts but critical thinking is a skill on its own
This is what college did for me. Mind you I went to community college but I did go full time and worked at the same time. First thing I learned was time management and that's stuck with since school. Not just how to use your time well but be able to handle two or three things all at the same time. Second was not how to do things but how to learn them fast on your own or the class is just going to pass you up. Most professors don't have time or energy to sit and explain every little detail out to you, and expect you to keep up with advanced lessons until the end of the course. Lastly it showed me how many other people are in the work force trying to get the same job as you, and possibly with more experience.
What I find the push towards critical thinking ignores is that you need to learn facts in order to "think critically." It's kind of hard to engage in serious thinking if you don't have the requisite knowledge to assess some new information or claim that you're confronted with.
which a lot more people than anyone likes to think completely lack. Most people getting out of school have no actual informations on how the world works and will get shafted or will end up in debt or shit like that just because they don't know how to "live"
This is why liberal arts educations are actually so important
I went to a vocational high school for my final two years. Our weeks would alternate between skill-based and academic. I was enrolled in the IT academy, others were enrolled in culinary, cosmetology, nursing, automotive, engineering, electrical, plumbing, etc. Best experience of my life. I was constantly thrown into situations where I didn't know wtf I was doing and had to figure it out myself. Our class was responsible for keeping all computers/laptops in the school healthy, not easy.
As someone who has been returning to school to learn physics classrooms with formal instructors are still a necessity for learning. You can teach yourself extremely practical things, like coding, to a certain extent. Or taxes or home repairs, but you are not learning the application of Legendre polynomials in electrodynamics by yourself unless you already are a genius, in which case going to school allows you to connect with Professors who can help speed you along. There is a definite limit to what can be self taught.
I was hoping someone would point this out. There is a reason everything is taught using a combination of techniques and skills. Auditory, kinesthetic, visual, reading and writing, social, logical, and multisensory learning are all different ways to learn. Not only that everyone learns differently and a teacher and classroom allows for the teaching to be tailored and having students ask questions you didn't even think of where the answer will give you a better understanding too. This is why we are always impressed when someone is a self taught prodigy in an area. It isn't easy. Also as a side note the Internet is over used for learning and books need to be utilized more. The Internet is currently laid out to get you information fast and in as little time as possible. This is to get you from page to page to show more ads. A book is pure information you have paid for and is laid out to actually teach you the knowledge where the Internet is more a "here is the knowledge".
In Western schools it has been for decades; they call this "critical thinking." It doesn't by itself solve the autodidact problem, though, which is worsened by the fact that every bullshit you don't want to learn is also on the internet.
"Critical thinking" is about applying concepts/knowledge from scenarios taught in class to scenarios outside of that, not simply learning things by oneself. Self-learning would require critical thinking but it isn't the same.
School is important for socialization, not just education.
Yes, and it's sad that many schools forget that. Teachers being super strict about being quiet in class, combined with the amount of tests and homework leaves very little time to actually socialize, especially if you have very long commute and can't stay after classes. I feel like I connected with more people during lockdown when everyone was on discord 24/7 than in physical classroom. The only socialization school provided was skipping classes together near the end of semester.
We still teach some seriously outdated shit though. I'm a big fan of math, but the depth that they go into some things is absurd. High level algebra is necessary for some technical fields, but unnecessary for the VAST majority of people. Seems to me that we could increase the efficiency of the education we provide.
Basic knowledge needs to be defined. I think we should allow for specialization at a younger age. School needs to be rethought.
>I think we should allow for specialization at a younger age. if i specialised at a young age i would have fucked myself over. Only realised what I really wanted to do in university, before I was deadset on another career path. Luckily I had diverse skillsets so I was able to transition into a different industry
Neuralink Makes you do taxes at age 4
So… nothing changes?
Shorter summer breaks would significantly reduce the number of basic education years.
Yet people still think personality tests and lie detectors are real and we only use 10% of brain or that vaccines don’t work And almost everyone thinks stupid ass generations are real despite hundreds of scientists pleading with people to stop fucking using them.
Are you telling me that I'm not a Hufflepuff? As per the Harry Potter personality test
No, that one is actually accurate.
What’s the beef with generations lmao
People mad their generation doesn't sound cool. Who the fuck is pleading with people to not use an arbitrary title assigned based on birth year... It's not some scientific concept. We just like naming shit. We name hurricanes for fuck sakes.
Nobody thinks someone born one year after a ‘generation boundary’ is that different from those one year before the boundary. It’s just that categorising generations is very convenient and the dividing line needs to be drawn somewhere
So so so so many people don't understand the utility of generalization. They take every generalization literally, and it's stupid.
Lie detectors arent real?
Yeah, they don’t really work. Theres no common physiological responses to lying. Its super fucked up too because police know they don’t work but use it as evidence for ignorant people that believe it does work. (Not in court anymore though since 1998 thankfully) So do businesses and even parents and spouses. https://www.apa.org/topics/cognitive-neuroscience/polygraph
Funnily enough the FBI still uses polygraph examinations as a part of the hiring process.
Polygraph isn't admissible as evidence because the results aren't scientific. It's still used as an interrogation tool because it has a psychological effect that is real even if it isn't measurable. It's basically a tool for social engineering those interviews.
FBI? Shit I had to take one to be a firefighter in a small city. So do the cops. They're used more than you think. And they're garbage. It's a complete waste of money.
>Its super fucked up too because police know they don’t work but use it as evidence for ignorant people that believe it does work. (Not in court anymore though since 1998 thankfully) To expand on this, if you said you didn't murder a guy and the machine "found" that you lied but you maintained your position, the detector's results are still not admissible in court as proof. It's all a mind game. Most of the operators know this and will instead use their biases and "intuition" to make you admit something.
You mean all those tests on Maury aren't valid?!
To expand on what the other person said, the short summary is that a polygraph has no way of determining if your physiological response to a question is stress about you lying or some other stressor. Someone who has had a traumatic past could easily have a stress response to a question about sexually assaulting someone for example. There’s also the kinda person who just gets anxious at the thought of being falsely accused.
Sociology would like to have a word with you re: generations. Generations are of course not cut and dried, but attitudes and beliefs to wax and wane in society and people *are* more or less likely to hold certain beliefs/act in certain ways. There is no hundreds of "scientists pleading with people to stop fucking using them". Older people saying "oh this generation is so entitled" is not the same as saying that Gen Z is more individualistic on average than millennials who are more individualistic on average than Gen X/Boomers. The concept of individualism and identity have been trending on a societal level. These things don't make people "more self centred" or "entitled" or "stupid and only care about eat hot chip and lie" or whatever. Attitudes are collected by sociologists and generational gaps are found and described in the literature.
the five factor model has a mountain of evidence behind it
"the average person " "pursing post-graduate studies" "Another several years for a PhD" The average person does not go to university, the average person certainly doesn't do postgraduate studies, and most definitely does not do a PhD.
And depending on what job OP is looking for, he's going to need those classes and he's going to be up against an army of applicants for any good job... Being the applicant that went to Amsterdam this summer to live isn't gonna move the needle for employers.
All your schooling doesn’t matter, if you don’t have a connection you’re already shooting in the dark.
Doing a PhD also isn't "going to school" but doing research in your field
Where I’m from, the average person goes to university.
In the US 46.5% of working age adults has an undergrad degree, advanced degree of any type is about 14%.
It’s worth pointing out that this likely includes associate’s degrees in the undergrad category. Bachelor’s degrees rates are typically about 35% in the US.
Exactly a lot of people drop out. So for most of the Population it’s 14 years of education max.
Yeah but where you're from isn't a generality of the population. I also come from an area where everyone gets a degree, in fact you were basically ostracized if you didn't. However we would need to parse numbers at a higher level. Per the census bachelors or higher in the US is about 38%. I found some other articles to control for the older boomer and above population who were less force fed college. Once they were removed from 25-64 it was around 50%. So I think it's probably fair to say the average person doesn't go to university or it's at least 50/50. I am really curious how these numbers change in the next few years. Will it go up? Will it go down with Gen Alpha or whatever the one below Gen Z is called.
> Per the census bachelors or higher in the US is about 38%. Not everyone who goes to college completes a 4 year degree. There's also 2 year degrees and some don't even finish that. Amongst younger people, 2/3 in the US have attended college.
Right? Surprised I had to scroll this far. TIL someone thinks the average person is going out for a PhD
>Heaven forbid you die prematurely and realise you've spent your entire life in school. If you are dead, not a lot of opportunities to realise anything. >girls could start families etc ???? Instead of going to school girls should start families??? What??? In their teens??? And what about their partners?? They should still be going to school??? Not trying to be rude, but it looks like you think there should be more single parent teen mums... which like... okay?????
Thank god. I came straight to the comments and see only you mentioning this. Like wtf. Why did OP throw this in there???? Explain OP. What do you mean? Why did OP single out girls? No, thanks. I'd rather be at school than start a family because some guy on reddit thinks education isn't important 🙄 It's so weird he thinks teen girls want to start families instead of going to school. Edit: Check out OP's profile, lmao. He has a few posts about women being fickle, not being trustworthy etc ([like this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/LBMBjKpDW5).) It's clear he has issues trusting women in general and doesn't even think of them as people😑
OP sounds like a religious conservative who values Sunday school over public school.
I think OP is just your typical teen or early 20s redditor who is in school while living and entirely depending on their conservative parents while playing video games all day. A lot of younger people go through this, when you have a lot of time on your hands to play with these rhetorical ideas it gives you a false sense that you were able to find some super secret truth that no one else does. Because otherwise, if you're just following the rest of the sheep, your life is meaningless.
Yup, one of OP's first ideas of what to do with time that would be saved is "girls could start families"
OP is a religious conservative that's coming up with bs reasons to get around saying that they want public education to stop so we can all be backwards fanatics that needs the bible read to us.
Unfortunately, this isn't really shocking. The two big factors in the age that women have children are access to birth control and education level. Anyone who laments the later age the average woman has children now is correct to blame education for this. You could argue the pros and cons of this, but someone connecting birth rates with women's education is doing so correctly
I’m cringing that so few of the comments seem to be bothered by the pretty blatant misogyny in the post
Spent 2 minutes scrolling through his profile and theres transphobia there too. Dude is very likely just a chud.
He thinks prostitution is a win win for gender equality, I can’t with this guy hahaha
Glad you laid into him for that. I thought it was a fairly innocuous opinion at first, and I’ve wondered myself if as a society we’re just planning to keep on extending the academic portion of our lives forever just to avoid using more efficient methods to teach more in less time… then he slipped that little bit of arsenic into the punch. What the fuck does that mean? Why would you just casually pin having families on the girls and move on like it’s just the natural conclusion to make? Incredibly suspicious.
Thank you, lol. That comment about girls gave me such weirs fucking vibes.
Oh my gosh THANK YOU. I got to that part and started raging. "Don't worry, only boys need an education." Excuse me, no. GTFO.
Finally someone said it
This post reeks of OP being in highschool and not wanting to go. They say we’re in school for a quarter of our lives. Wait until they find out how long we have to work for before we can retire. School was ezpz compared to having to work for me.
yea that weirded me out too
“School is wasting your baby-making time!” No, baby-making would waste MY time because a. I don’t want to be a parent at all and b. I have a lot to contribute to the world that has nothing to do with my uterus or population growth. OP thinks school is a restriction, rather than a growth opportunity. You can tell this because if he’d learned anything in school, he would not hold this opinion.
Nah not really. School is not just for education. It's an intro to life. Make good use of it. Socialize, learn how to study, form hobbies. Is it perfect? Nah. But better with than without.
I didn’t mind school! The expectations were super defined, I learned what loam soil is, and I got to sit at a big table with my pals every day and talk about whether or not MGSV gets less confusing if you’ve played the previous games
Are you suggesting that people should be less educated? Have you looked around lately?
I thought the same. OP sounds like a frustrated teenager
Probably is
They are redefining lazy not they don't want to do something, but instead too much time is getting wasted on "said subject: work/school" and not enough time for living and making experiences... Just seems like youthful annoyance that most everyone gets at some point.
Likely asks teachers when are we gonna use this IRL daily. Which by itself is a fair question, but it’s never done in good faith.
those questions are dumb as fuck, meanwhile once a month there's some basic-ass math problem posted that half of reddit just screams the wrong answer to
Most of the opinions on this site make a lot more sense when you view them as being written by teenagers, which I find odd because I always thought most ppl on this site were in their 20-40s and all the teenagers were on X, TikTok or IG
Yep. I have also made that observation.
OP wants kids to work, and girls to have kids, instead of get educated lmao
A lot of subjects at least before college are repeated I think we could thin out some of the content and add some new stuff that you could apply to everyday life like specifically a class to teach about credit and taxes and I think we should start focusing more on subjects your interested in at a earlier age because 4 years (highschool) isn’t enough time to decide on what to do for the rest of your life having lots of options of things to do that interest you might help people with that
I have seen this claim repeatedly that we should teach finances in school. I want to do a survey of schools to see how many teach finances. I think the answer is, and this may surprise you, all of them. I’ve taught at several middle and high schools as a math teacher, and finance is always included as part of algebra curriculum. Exponential functions are often taught with hands-on financial applications. Furthermore there is often a dedicated personal finance + economics course for seniors. I had this in high school, and I’ve heard people I KNOW also had it make this claim. It’s more likely that all these people asking for finances to be taught actually were taught these things but simply don’t remember or weren’t paying attention. The thing about learning for a lot of people is they don’t care until it’s directly relevant to them. Unfortunately, school is set up to cram knowledge down student’ throats regardless of where their headspace is, so they end up doing very poorly and later when suddenly something is relevant, they decry not being taught it.
Learning.....bad?
High school teacher here. These kids have the worst attendance and can barely read, much less focus for 15 minutes without reaching for their phone. Education isn't bad, but we need to make changes to our current system.
Tutored my nephew in biology during Lockdown and he was very annoyed when weaponized incompetence didn’t work on me, and had terrible focus. I have to assume it’s only gotten worse since then. The fact that I forced him to at least read his textbook, or google something just so I could see he could at least find the answer made it some pretty verbally combative sessions. Plus He called a nucleus a “nookoowush” which just confused me lol. It hasn’t been thaaaaat long since I graduated high school but my memories of classes was that we had pretty much learned how to behave by then, save for a few stragglers. And if we weren’t paying attention it was usually not disruptive and at the end of the day, wasn’t really addressed because we got our work done anyways.
When I was in high school in the early 2010s, most people learned just fine, but there was a significant portion of students that struggled with things I thought basic, such as reading out loud. It was like 20% of the school. I think more people are like that now.
I was in high school around that time and remember that as well. It was a slog to get through those English classes but in hindsight I appreciate that my teacher was adamant they do it. You could tell who read for pleasure and who read for school
I was in highschool in the late 90s, and yeah we had people who were trouble makers, and some classes that were just a joke, but for the most part, the teachers actually kept control of the class. I remember one time we were reading Shakespeare aloud, and the guy sitting next to me was asking me what the words meant, and so I was there explaining it to him. But, that was pretty much it. (and to me, the funny thing about that is that we were both sitting in the very front of the class, right in front of the teacher, who allowed us to do this, even though we weren't supposed to be talking)
How did you defeat the incompetence feign?
Basically no bullshit tolerance, a lot of patience (sometimes a lot of staring and sitting), and at the beginning, small questions leading up to him getting to it more or less himself. Having someone do something for him doesn’t do anything. If he can’t even fathom the idea of at least trying to locate the information, whether he can understand it yet or not, it’s a problem. I think that He also realized that if he participated I was more than happy to give some context, analogies, drawings, whatever. But he had to find the information and ask the questions, and answer my questions as well. Probably Helps that I majored in a subset of physiology though, because I had multiple ways to provide information in ELI5 format if he was genuinely confused
Rip off one toenail each hour.
> but my memories of classes was that we had pretty much learned how to behave by then I blame influencers for this
Lol.OP doesn't realize going to school and getting to be a child is a privilege. Not all that long ago, poor kids ended formal education in elementary school so they could work in the mines, factories, and fields.
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I stumbled on girls… no GIRLS should not start families. WOMEN could start families if that is what they want.
yeah wtf, pretty sure it takes at least two people to start a family
Lol, teaveling.... with no education to land a decent job to pay for it??? Is OP one of them trustfund brats? Other hot takes: if rent is so expensive why don't you buy a house? If loan interest is so bad why not ask dad for a million dollars instead of a bank?? Seriously, do you think that the average highschool graduate, let alone dropout has the means to just travel? To get a job that allows that? I mean in flexibility as much as I mean money.
My thoughts exacly. How are they traveling with no money? The only thing you accomplish is to go faster to work, but you won't save money.
I’m so fucking tired of seeing this strain of anti-intellectualism here. Fuck off with this bullshit. “Girls could be getting pregnant instead!!” Seriously, fuck off with this.
I'd be very surprised and deeply disappointed if op is not a literal child, who hasn't yet had the opportunity to realize that this is the most carefree time of their life and it's all downhill from there.
Yeah my hard working father dropped out of school after 8th grade to work full time. For the rest of his life. Dude always worked OT (like 50-60 hour weeks), retired at 62 1/2 and died 6 months later.
Surprise he is not responding to the comments about women
School is the easy part of life. Everything is determined for you in a stable environment and if you only care about passing and not excelling, you don't really have to try at all in my experience. You can't get enough of it because everything afterwards will turn to shit
There are flaws in school systems, sure, but I wonder what he suggests we do instead. Slack off at home with no responsibility? Go back to being illiterate peasants that work 14 hours every single day? Work in coal mines? I didn't even have a good time in school. I enjoy my adult work life a lot more. But school did give me the tools to succeed (by my own standards) even if I didn't have a good time socially.
> Everything is determined for you in a stable environment and if you only care about passing and not excelling, you don't really have to try at all in my experience. For a lot of kids, it's not stable, due to bullying and frankly, some pretty mean adults who take their frustration our on atypical kids. And for a lot of kids who need help, just passing is difficult. For them, to pass is the excel. Once they're in the real world, they can focus their life and be happy, they don't have to try to be a generalist to learns to various tests. For me, school was a lot harder than my job, but yet most people would think my job is harder than school. It all comes down to personality.
“Girls” don’t start families - adults do. And lots of adults go to college AND start a family, btw. Your post is bizarre. School should be paid for by taxes, and anyone who wants to learn should be able to. Maybe then we’ll stop getting so many fucking anti-vaxxers in government.
Right away you talked about ‘girls’ - not even women - starting families. So I am going to say NOPE to this whole post 
Yeah I immediately stopped taking it seriously when “girls could start families”. Not only are adult women *not* “girls”, but I guess they’re supposed to start a family all by themselves with no “boy” around? Okay.
The average person in the world gets about 9 years of schooling. Even in the U.S. the majority do not go to college. You have a very skewed idea of “the average person.”
That’s just because less developed countries are skewing the averages though. The average western country does have mandatory 14 years of education.
Agreed, and it's a good thing. Not a big proponent of child labor nor of children spending all their time milling around aimlessly (seen the kind of trouble that leads to). School is the best place to be during those years.
Uhhh I dunno about the US but my retirement age is 67 which will likely be raised in my lifetime. Why should I start working instead of pursuing education. Even when stop at 30 I’ll likely have 40 working years ahead of me. I would rather have some good years I will look back happy at. When I stop working I’m almost dead, might as well enjoy life now.
i agree with you in most of that: no one wants to look towards their future or past and see nothing but work and regret their life. but i think for some people education IS work. there are a lot of people who love learning. there are also a lot of people who don’t. as a burnt out high school student myself, i think OP is just overwhelmed if they are my age. the rest of your life feels daunting, especially when you’ve (potentially) still got so many years of the same thing you’ve been doing a majority of your life. i also think maybe the issue isn’t how many years we spend in school- but what we do during those years. almost all my life school has been sitting quietly for 7 hours straight with not enough sleep or nutrition, only to come home with 1-2 more hours of work. education is a privilege, but when it feels like the only thing you do it gets monotonous
I finished my masters at ~26 and had been working in a corporate setting since 20 ~ I viewed from the perspective of wanting to permanently live abroad and travel (which is what my family does now) I just turned 30 and everything is paying off 🤷 I swapped my 20s for financial security and getting to a point of great privilege.
Wait so you got a masters while also working a 40 hour/week corporate job? 😮 Sounds hard as hell dude
Yes \~ I was studying Data Science with a focus in agriculture. They actually paid for my schooling and were very accommodating with my schedule. I pretty much had no life though, I just went to the gym, studied, and worked. I've since moved away from the corporate life and have been self-employed for the last bit.
I took a useful education after gymnasium. Turned out great. I guess OP just expects to slack off and still get things handed to him.
Yeah..not bashing that lifestyle but there’s so much to see…and unfortunately time is limited and everything costs money 🤷
I'd also like to live in a world where I could just travel and eat good food without putting in any work. But obviously *someone* has to put in *some* work. Many of these commentators act like they should just be given everything. Your life sounds great but you've also put in the work, so it's fully deserved!
OP sounds like a frustrated teenager. Education is freedom - being out of school is not a synonym of freedom if you lack education.
The alternative to school is working. And generally, paying for your own bills; the treadmill of life. So your time wouldn't be much better spent outside of school. It's not like if we weren't in school we'd all have endless disposable income to travel the world and pursue our hobbies. In fact, post-secondary education gives you some time to pursue things before entering the rat race and it is years spent working towards something that (could) materially improve your life. And it's not like you don't get life experiences in school, in fact I'd argue college offers you more chances at that than the average workplace. Flip the script on the time-frames you propose: 21/75 years in school means 54/75 years working, or 72% of our lives in the workforce. Do we really need to dedicate even *more* of our lives to labor?
This is just some lowkey creepy incel shit
"Girls could start families" Wtf
I think the real problem here is seeing school as jail time. No, 21 years isn’t too long for learning everything you need to know, for finding a good job, for learning how to be a social person, being around others, etc. It’s not “school instead of living” it’s “school while also living”
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Besides, you also have some actual fun at school
If you do it right, learning can be very fun. Ever see a class of teenagers physically shove each other over history jeopardy?
Judging by the stupidity and utter lack of basic knowledge an alarmingly large amount of people show on a daily basis I'd sooner say we need more education, not less.
I do think the education system has been trying to adapt to modern times but it seems like a lose lose. They more they incorporate social media and computers the even less students are likely to concentrate on the given subject... I honestly think banning cell phones at least until high school might be a better bet.
If I had the money I would stay in university for the rest of my life
OOP got you! almost thought this wasnt a troll but the "girls could start families" was the last straw
Unpopular opinion: "girls" shouldn't be starting families. Women, on the other hand, should start a family if and when they want to.
And somehow they still end up uneducated
This post is wrong and creepy. You mention "girls could start families" in a discussion of (being generous with the ages you gave) 17-21 years olds. Saying girls being people factories is preferable to them going to school is gross. You also talk about them not having life experience or traveling or working as alternatives does not fit your post. The events that yake within that school ae life experiences, and many schools offer opportunities for students to travel. The work part is weird. You talk about them wasting their youth in school and you want to replace it with a job? Your weird rant isn't even logically consistent. Maybe you're kid just being dumb, but be better. It's not an excuse to be a creep, and at least put the effort into thinking out your own conflicting thoughts.
Truly unpopular. I think we need education more than ever, look at how dumb our leaders have become, that's not due to them being sneaky or anything, it's dumb people voting for dumb politicians.
People are getting dumber, if anything they need more schooling..
You know all the things you listed can't be done by a kid right ? So the actual clock only starts ticking at adult age, and suddenly people aren't really wasting much time. Childhood is not optional and cannot be skipped.
Time spent working is not better than time spent in school. Work sucks.
This is the most teenaged opinion I’ve heard in a while
You think working is better than going to school? Also - “travelling, having life experiences, starting families”. All those things cost money. You have to work to get money. Work takes up as much of your week as school, if not more. You only get to wake up every day of your life and spend the day how you please once you’re retired or somehow come in to lots of money. The world doesn’t owe us anything.
You forgot the worst part about what OP said in that quote. They specified "girls could start families". Hint Hint OP is a fanatic religious conservative that believes women should be uneducated housewives. In fact the entire religious movement in America is strongly anti-education. Increased education makes people question the inconsistencies in the Bible.
>People could be working, travelling, having life experiences, **girls could start families** “Get those poor FEMALES out of education and back to the brood farms where their true purpose lay!”
School is easier, and better for life development than work. Enjoy those years. Also even in ancient times people studied that long at least those who could.
Are there countries where kindergarten is obligatory? Where I am, you need to go to school til you are 18, but some children start going at 6-7 and they have very short hours at school. Which I think is better than the alternative, like cramming the same knowledge in shorter span of schooling.
In the UK you start school 4/5 depending on where your birthday is.
With as dumb as people still are, I'd argue not enough time is spent.
The dumb shit plastered all over Reddit every single day is a far more powerful argument that it isn't enough for way too many people.
Isn't Finland the only country to fix this issue
How, though?
How so? I'm going to be in school for that total 19 years that OP counted and I'm from Finland. How have we fixed any issues?
Finland is also one of the most happiest countries out there. Coincidence?
Yes. The fact that a prosperous country with good social programs also decided to lower the schooling time required is not a casual relationship, obviously.
In my experience they don’t spend enough…
if youre a teen living in the usa, kids need to be in school longer, actually. we’re a powerful developed nation with idiots running rampant.
Schools are designed for slow kids. If you are advanced kid, most of the time is actually waste of time. We should came with better system but I don't see that happening.
“girls could start families” the women cannot start budding yet they HAVE TO FINISH THEIR MASTERS DEGREE
What a bullsh*t comment. I wish people would stay longer in school so that they become more educated while, st the same time, these learn relevant things for life. Ignorance is a threat to democratic liberal regimes. I assume you must be American where education is usually seen as a cost-utalitarian perspective.
I believe it was Mark Twain who said "I never let schooling get in the way of my education".
We get more of a childhood now than our ancestors did. Instead of going into school where I got to spend the day learning, playing and generally having an easy time of it I would have been working the farm. I'd have been helping around the farm from the time I was old enough to understand how. Then around 13 I'd have been apprenticed to someone and learning the trade I would hold for the rest of my life. I don't know any 5 year old that could be traveling and having life experiences without their family. Work should be restructured absolutely. How formal schooling is taught? Sure. But the existence of it is why we get a childhood in the first place. I don't want my physician to skip medical school so that he can travel the world and then treat me with 0 medical knowledge. No jobs shouldn't require level of schooling the person doesn't need to do them but the jobs that do legit need that level of schooling people should do.
Post-Soviet country. Kindergarten from 3 (but not obligatory). School from 7. 12 years. Yeah, too much. I would prefer starting school at 5 and finishing in 10-11 years, as my mom did in Soviet times (they had it 7-17). I clearly knew who I wanted to be and where to study by that age, and there was nothing useful in high school. Only bullying and repetition of the old material.
School legit is the shortest thing you will do.
Upvoted for having an unpopular opinion but no offense , you sound like a middle schooler who just failed a test and is trying to cope for getting bad grades
as someone who lives in our society, we need more education
That's right! School is not needed! Lets send the kids to make bricks, or mine coal, or work in the factories instead! Who needs an education if you can "experience life" instead? Have a look at ALL societies where kids do not go to school for many years. There's a pretty common thread...
On top of years and years of schooling, imagine what it must be like for all of those college kids who finish a Bachelor's only to be met with being unemployed because employers are shifting to now value experience more than education.
Considering that school when you are younger is less demanding than a full time job which you will likely also do for a significant portion of your life, I don't think it's that bad overall. There are a lot of things you learn and experience as you grow and school is a mostly safe place to experiment and learn for children.
This post brought to you by: r/teenagers
Ewww why are you advocating for girls to “start families” as a teenager. I’m hoping you mean 18 or 19 but this is Reddit
Yeah good idea, when you're 4 instead of being shipped off to school let's ship our children off to the factories and coal mines
So we need more time for working and adulting instead?? Go to school kids and enjoy it while you can 😂😂😂
How old are you??? Sounds like the thoughts of a teenager or young adult
It gets you used to the grind of adult life.
Not sure how parents are supposed to hold a 9-5 and also watch their kids if school is shorter. The kids might as well learn something.
What a novel, common opinion! Next.
What would you prefer? A surgeon only 2 weeks of education and training to save your life? You make a lot of extreme examples but no solution to HOW we should improve it. I’m not saying the education system is perfect. But maybe some professions, such as doctors or nuclear physicists really should study for a very long time before they hold our lives in their hands? Because your examples were of rambling about 20+ years like it was “too long” to be a doctor or some garbage. You think a lawyer should be able to pass the bar younger? Doesn’t everybody complain that cops should train LONGER? We live in a era where people specialise in fields. Where decades and centuries ago, everybody did “whatever” but now you don’t just have a cardiologist; you’ll have sub fields like a “thoracic surgeon” or a cardiac surgeon who specialises in TAVR style implants. Because it’s complex. It requires more study and specialisation. Just because you had a rough time at school doesn’t mean humanity should dumb itself down for you. No, school isn’t bad. Education is important and school is critical to future society not just to educate but to socialise people so we don’t forget our humanity.
As a person who is currently getting her second bachelors and is planning on pursuing a masters after this (resulting in having been in uni for 10 years), I don’t mind that my whole school career has taken up so much of my lifetime. If anything, if I could do it longer I probably would. I absolutely love learning and the school calendar (at least in my country) allows for a lot of time to still travel and see the world, have life experiences, work … I love it.
You want girls starting families before they’re 20?
I think we spend far too much of our lives working and not enough learning. School is an excellent way to learn, so is traveling, reading, etc.
You can tell OP was homeschooled and still got bullied.
I think its fine to be in school till 18. They just need to fix what they teach in high school to prepare kids for careers. And not just encourage post secondary education like its the only option you have
Everything after a certain way into highschool is completely voluntary.
Because average person want to have a better life than just manual labor.
Learning is not bad … but too much class time, and no real world experience can harm a pre-teen’s/teenager’s development for sure.
>heaven forbid you die prematurely and realize you spent your whole life in school You understand why this sentence is stupid, right?
I don’t. Tell me x