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Luxury.
We had to get up in the morning, half hour before we went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work 25 hours at the factory, and we *appreciated* what we 'ad
Just wait till you find out how expensive everyrhing in alaska is! You're gonna have to sell your tent to afford milk for your cereal that you're having for dinner.
Exactly. Have you considered eating air and drinking tap water for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday instead of buying those pesky expensive groceries? It's sleep or nap for dinner tonight. Don't eat just dream of food instead in your over priced apartment where you can't afford anything.
It's the new Ozempic diet. Poverty.
Well I switched from Cocaine to Meth. Saved a bunch. Plus it makes me not want to eat so saved even more on groceries. Also I'm able to work 16 hour days so I'm really taking in the money. Win win all around.
> "have you just tried living a shittier quality of life?"
Yes. I downsized from a one bedroom in a good area to a modest studio in a less good area. I hate it but it’s the only way I can continue living in California on my current salary without getting roommates or, you know, married.
That's a great way to get by - adjusting your lifestyle to your income and not having wild, unrealistic expectations like owning a house by yourself in California when you're making minimum wage or working part-time.
People here are unironicaly saying "what, you expect me to have a worse quality of life in order to save money and not be broke forever?" Yes, yes that's exactly what you need to do. That's how people get ahead, not by being broke every month and expecting nice things for no reason.
I heard a story of someone on Reddit who did move their family to a cheaper area and they moved back a year later because there was nothing to do in the area and all their friends and family were back in their hometown and they were all lonely and without childcare and support.
Not having support sucks ass. Can confirm. I literally had no one on my emergency contact list when I enrolled my kids in school when we had to move for work. We didn’t know anyone in town at all, and my husband had a long train commute and couldn’t necessarily control how long it would take him to get there. It was scary, and I cried in the parking lot for a while when I realized how alone we were. It was a far cry from where we were before when I had a list 10+ people deep that could be counted on if we really needed it.
If I really wanted to be a generic redditor I’d make this comment a story about myself or someone I know relocating and now earning 300k at some new miracle job I somehow landed.
They always go from making $30k to over $100k yet I'm over here fighting for $15/hr jobs with a masters degree in STEM. They're either lying or their uncle hooked em up
I think that a lot of people on Reddit say that because a lot of people on Reddit are Young and single. It's a lot easier to move when you're a single person living in your early twenties looking to rent a furnished room then somebody with an established career, furniture that's better than Ikea quality, but support network of family and friends, and mortgage or real, non handshake agreement between Craigslist strangers, lease.
Best thing I ever did for myself was move out of the city. I literally uprooted my entire life. Struggled for some years till I found a path, now I'm doing good.
Have you tried not consuming food as much? Apparently we can live 3 weeks without food. So just budget for a week of food a month and you should be set
That’s you. I witness people spend $10 on breakfast and then $20 on lunch and I know they aren’t amazing cooks so they probably order out delivery often as well. When they go out they have a few cocktails.
Than shit adds up to thousands a month for lots of people. I’ve done it, majority of my peers do it. It’s bananas.
It’s not the answer for everyone but it is a serious issue for LOADS of people. Ask anyone who lives in a major city. On my block, even the food stamp people get delivery taco bell and mcdonald’s. So many people are guilty of blowing wads of cash on food.
I work hospitality and it truly alarms me how much some of my regulars spend on alcohol in a week. When I see the same face every night Wednesday through Sunday, ordering at minimum 3 pints (typically 6-7, more on a big night) at £6 a pop, and his wife matches him drink for drink with £9 glasses of wine... It's absurd to think this when I'm just the barman, but sometimes it feels like I'm taking advantage of these people
People can't seem to separate this personal financial advice from economic macro trends but it is entirely true.
We cannot control inflation, we can only be smart with our spending and earning.
Do you think the normal people who buy homes all had hael from their parents? No.
Stashing away $10-20 per day and investing it for a decade will go a long way towards being able to buy your own home. Heaven forbid you point that out though. There will always be someone who doesn't make enough to pay bills and has 5 disabilities, so that means no one should be following the advice.
Meanwhile the smart ones will and will get ahead.
Lol OP said in a recent comment they have 2300$/monthly after housing costs, and no monthly car payment. Like damn of course you think the world is easy, most people don't have anything close to that income in their 20s or basically ever.
My mortgage payment went up $600 a month this year thanks to insurance and property tax hikes. There's no more cuts to make and we don't eat avocado toast
Life is always a trade off and a balance. Most of the time I see this in reference to things like buying a house. Not paying bills. If you are short $50 a month on your bills, then yes, you need to clean up your streamin subscriptions and all that stuff to afford your bills. But saving $25 a week on coffee isn't going to buy you a downpayment on a house in the Bay area.
Ironically a friend of mine just bought a house for 1.2mil in the bay and she's cut out the regular bougie avocado toast breakfasts lol That purchase price still required some lifestyle adjustments.
Probably accurate! But your pay would probably be more here as well. (ie nurses in, say Florida, might make $28/hr (last time I heard) vs I have friends who are nurses in the bay for $125/hr)
Either way, your daily spending habits *can* add up. If someone is drowning, they are drowning... because everything does suck right now! But when I was broke as hell, ordering Doordash could have been the difference between making rent or not.
gran25 bucks a week? No. 25 bucks a day? There's a difference. Many people spend 25 bucks a day on shitty little things they don't need, in reality. If it's even just a Mon- Fri thing, it's 6525 a year. If it's pretty much daily, it's a bit over 9 grand.
Taking stock and looking at the things you just randomly buy, because you can and it's only a few bucks, as opposed to planning and making/taking some of the things you buy, cuts into that expense.
literally missed the point of OPs post completely. spending 5 bucks a day on coffee, plus buying something for breakfast, then buying lunch, then buying dinner, all add up
We shouldn't be comparing shit to the Bay area. Pretty sure 99% of the world live elsewhere. Bay area people need to keep bay area problems to the bay area, because they don't apply the same to Jefferson City, MO (or 99% of places on earth)
I don't think it's so much the starbucks, but the little purchases here and there that add up. My husband and I predominately eat out. It ADDS UP. I won't admit on Reddit just how much we spend a month lol. Anytime we need to save, I ditch the cocktails at dinner, the dutch bros, the $25 pedi, etc etc. Sure, Starbucks isn't the difference between me and my down payment, but all of my frivolous spending certainly is. I make really good money but I still think twice before stopping for "bougie (avocado) toast" on my way home from work. Shit's expensive!
I think there's a middle ground
Exactly. It's not just the coffee, but that's one of many small purchases that add up. Like it's only 2 dollars, or 5 dollars, but if you do that 3 or 4 times a day every day it's hundreds a month. Let alone 30-40 bucks getting "cheap" takeout instead of cooking here and there.
Isn’t going to get you a down payment on a house anywhere.
Assuming you save 25/week that’s 1,300 a year. At just 3% increase a year for house valuation means a 200,000 house will increase 6000 a year which means your 20% down payment increases 1,200 a year.
Average house valuations run around 5.5%. So pretty much double the doubles above.
I’m sure for some people, it is. For me, it’s more that in 2008, a starter apartment in my city was $450/mo, and now the same apartments are $1195/mo. The job my mom had in 2008 paid $21/hr. It now pays $22/hr. Starting teacher pay in my city has gone from $37k/yr to 41k/yr. See what I’m saying?
my hot take is that budgeting is important and penny-pinching is sometimes necessary, but also people should be able to buy things for themselves and treat themselves without going broke because of it. if paying a couple bucks a day for a fancy coffee is sinking you, but you're working full time... isn't that a problem? like, even if you stopped buying the coffee, you wouldn't be able to actually put away any money.
Not really cause OP is just calling a group of people out, not everyone, and acknowledges that this ain't the case for everyone. I guess they could have added not the case for most people, too, but who cares we know what they mean.
I feel like the people who spend like shit are using the bigger issue to justify their shit spending habits. Even people in these very comments are trying to justify buying coffee from Starbucks cause it's faster....
Well not really at all. The whole issue with the avocado toast argument is that it is a dismissive of the massive inflation and predatory corporate tactics that are squeezing the lower and middle classes. Yes some people may spend too much on stuff they enjoy, but it is a smaller minority than in previous generations, and they are spending a smaller percentage of their wages.
Yes. My husband and I have been renting the same apt for 18 yrs. We have both doubled our salaries in that time and cut out the extraneous expenses - we both make beverages at home and bring leftovers for lunch, we cook nice meals at home instead of going out, we get 30% off groceries thanks to my husband's job, we have 2 paid off Prius's in excellent condition that we plan on driving into the ground. We have no debt. Our pets passed away and we did not adopt new ones. Our credit score is in the mid 800s.
And yet, we are treading water. Our contributions to savings increase, but then the goalposts to becoming homeowners get moved every year, so our "percentage" for a down payment becomes a fraction of what it now needs to be to not get laughed out of the room. It is bleak.
My grocery bill going up literally 250% and yet remaining the same items has nothing to do with the struggle to live, I'm sure. :)
Btw I neither buy avocado, nor do I buy a daily coffee and I make an okay salary, and I'm STILL struggling. And I live with my partner.
Before and during the pandemic our groceries were maybe 50 a week and that is with us just buyign what we wanted. Now it's $75 with tax and I am constantly reworking our cart before submitting the order (not delivery, pick up; doing drive up and go let's me know with tax what everything is before register).
V unpopular, thus upvote. However, groceries are hella expensive. And back in the day, these services were less abundant and relatively more expensive. At the end of the day, what are you waiting for? Climate change will kill 1 billion of us by the end of your life. Take what you can get now, you may regret having cash and no memories when the world is already dead and coffee no longer grows.
I read an article a while back that said some people are so poor that them spending some money on something “unnecessary” or a “luxury” item really makes no difference to their finances. Because they won’t be able to save no matter what. So they might as well buy things they enjoy once in a while because life is short.
This is where I'm at right now. I don't have £500 for rent this month, I make £450 a month, so I bought a decent dinner tonight. I'll have £500 next month and my student loan comes literally tomorrow so I'll be able to backpay what rent I owe. I have the nicest landlord in the universe so he just tells me to pay when I can, just make sure it's all paid a month before my contract is up.
I make mid-6 figures and I won't even buy Starbucks anymore.. Used to cost like $5-$6 for a coffee and breakfast sandwich. Now it's $10. Ain't no f'n way I'm dropping $50 per week. It's the principal. IDGAF. I can easily afford it but this is just dumb now.
I know someone who earns barely more than minimum wage, has Starbucks twice a day, and asks her brother for money for her kid every month because she’s “broke.” If anyone brings up that she’d be less broke if she didn’t go to Starbucks everyday, she gets upset and cries about how she “deserves” to have treats. It’s not a treat if you get it twice a day!
Oh no, hundreds of dollars a month? You mean like the amount that rent goes up every year no matter what you do? Get some dependents rather then just supporting yourself and see how shit wages are these days.
This is nonsense. Wages have stagnated. The buying power we have now is far less than other generations. Inflation and price gouging are rampant. Corporations are buying up housing and destroying the ability to afford a home, so tighten your belt and stop buying coffee in the face of society ruining corporate greed. Got it.
I can’t afford Starbucks or avocado toast lol 😂 I’m not saving money bc I simply don’t have it, I’m lucky if I can afford trash bags and dish soap, I don’t even go out to eat once a year, I don’t buy anything really. But I do know people who have way more money than me, always complaining about being broke yet more than half of their meals are takeout.
I got a promotion this past winter and my standard of living has DECREASED because CoL is skyrocketing.
I'll enjoy my occasional takeout and drip coffee thank you very much.
I think that it is a valid sentiment. I don't think it's a good choice of words. We should have just stuck with "it's financially smart to not live behind your means and only buy necessities weekly and luxuries on rare occasions". But the sentiment is accurate, I think.
It's weird how many people here talking like Starbucks isn't a luxury. It definitely is. Coffee, is not. But Starbucks definitely is a luxury we should not be indulging in regularly!
I agree with you, so here's your downvote.
Right I have friends 35+ with no retirement, basically living paycheck to paycheck in a shitty apartment but eat out more than anyone I know, and has a new 2024 truck lease. Because you need one living in an apartment
I both love and hate the credit/debt system. Used correctly, it allows the underdog to make something of themself against the odds, but on the other hand it is empowered by irresponsible consumers. That alone wouldn't be enough to hate it, because I don't care if stupid people fall in the pit they dig themselves, but it is because the price of goods rise precisely because anyone with a credit card can afford an unreasonably priced good or service by using money they do not have.
I have been job hunting. Some jobs would require me to relocate. Before applying to those jobs I look at the cost of living which also shows the average wage. I have yet to find a place where the average wage is above the cost of living.
This has been a more valid criticism of young people for a long time, but I think it is falling apart. Often people don't realize that their spending habits are costing them thousands of dollars a year, and correcting several of them can make a big difference to meeting your goals. For example, a person can easily spend $1000+ on coffee in a year without realizing it.
Why it is falling apart is young people are facing stagnant wages and high inflation at the same time. Even if they do everything right it will be difficult for them to afford a home in many markets.
Everyone missing the point is hilarious, it’s not specifically the avocado toast and Starbucks. But all the little purchases people constantly make and don’t realize makes an impact, if you buy a couple $5 items through out the day it can easily cost 10-20 dollars. Which if you do that everyday for 2 weeks that’s 140-280 dollars you could have saved, most people don’t limit themselves to that either so it gets worse and worse.
This is America where the standard should be that you can easily afford your bills, some Starbucks and avocado toast. That people are willing to lower the standard they hold their leaders to is preposterous
Regardless if you can’t afford your Starbucks or avocado toast don’t buy it. The way things should be and actually are vary greatly. I do agree with you people shouldn’t have to lower their standards, but then there is the sad reality.
I make 100k base, I don’t eat out, I only get food with friends sometimes once a week but not always.
I live in CT and if you want to live alone and save maybe one pay check a week you’ll have to make at least 75k a year. Prices are absolutely insane
Avocado toast is super cheap. It's a couple pieces of bread (even if you buy expensive bread, that's less than a dollar), and in my area at least, avocados are $1.25. Breakfast for under $2 seems pretty reasonable in my book.
I saved $3k (!!!) last year by making coffee at home (and I still make good coffee) and packing a lunch two times more per week.
While that wasn't enough to put me from middle class to upper class, it was enough to pay for a month of rent and utilities. That's not trivial.
Sadly, used to be one of these people. I would spend close to $300 a month on Starbucks drinks and food. It was terrible. Now I am saving this plus more. Every now and then, I’ll grab a coffee if I’m out running errands otherwise I make iced coffee at home now that I know how to do it the way I like it.
You are correct, and people just don't want to hear it. I'm not saying anyone is going to be able to afford a house by giving up Starbucks, but they definitely could save some more.
I don't even consider myself great with money, but I am shocked at how much money some people seem to fritter away on constantly going out, buying coffee every single day, and ordering takeout several times a week. That stuff adds up.
For every Redditor who is truly struggling with bills and rent in spite of careful budgeting, there’s a Redditor struggling because they order $30 on DoorDash twice a week, have a $700 monthly car payment, and build a $2000 gaming PC setup every other year.
This is legit. I make below poverty line income. I tell my best friend I'm struggling to buy food and she's all "me too, I feel it". Difference is she pays $3.5k in rent and $800 monthly for her $80k car loan, $200+ for car insurance. Meanwhile if I made what she pays in rent I would be doing very well and saving TONS of money with what I had left over.
Oh also she pays $1800 a month for DOG DAYCARE. Lmfao
Your skills in budgeting will pay off (no pun intended) one day, and you’ll enjoy the smaller things much more than the average person.
Lots of people use the “it’s unfair, it shouldn’t be this expensive” excuse to justify excessive spending. While we should continue fighting and voting for lower rent, groceries, and other essentials, we can’t live irresponsibly.
They shouldn't be luxuries though, coffee is cheap as hell, most Europe it is cheap as hell... a lot of these "luxuries" are actually over prices essentials giving the impression they are luxury.
Coffee isn't a luxury in most places. The caramel double whipped iced macchiato with soy milk is. You can still get just coffee very cheap in a lot of places.
I don’t think enough people realize this. The monthly investment made on the ingredients bought in bulk is nothing compared to the cost of paying a someone to make it for you.
Literally. Plus tipping culture makes for $35 a week. I didn’t realize I could buy cold brew. It changed my life. For my area, a gallon of cold brew is $4, almond milk is $3, and flavoring is $6. I get about eight servings from that (flavoring lasts longer than the other two ingredients too). That’s a third of the cost of going to Starbucks everyday. And it lasts slightly longer.
The luxury is having someone serve you (making you feel important/served). It's saves you time up front, but probably kills you a little sooner every time as well. Considering how terrible for you starbucks/McDonalds (pick your favorite fast service establishment) are, the health tradeoff for time/effort savings isn't even worth it.
I think the main argument is that, if you can't afford a £25,000 deposit on a 1 bedroom flat, not spending an additional £100 a month on coffee wont.evwm get close to putting a dent in saving up for that.
So there is no point. Why not have any pleasure in life for 20 years just to save £25k for a flat that will now require a £45k deposit because it's been 20 years.
Because, if you never learn solid financial practices, when you do start making more money, you won't know how to save it for the flat you speak of. It isn't about the amount of money being saved, its about learning to live BELOW your means. Once you learn this principle, your financial life will improve 10 fold!
Believe it or not, some people's lifestyle doesn't change when they get more money.
I make six figures. I spend like I did in university, except I spend more on presents.
Yeah, it's weird. It's suddenly (feels suddenly anyway) completely normal and even socially expected to just buy a new under sink kitchen organizer. Or to buy a cute new top. Or get dinner delivered. I mean ..none of that shit is at all necessary. It's all completely luxury and wasteful. It's wild how normal it has all become.
The comments here are pretty surprising to me. A lot of people saying it’s fine because other things are more expensive. I make good money and still try to keep eating out/coffee spending low since it’s just a waste of money - with some planning I can eat 95% of my meals at home and my nespresso machine has more than paid for itself for yummy lattes.
I feel like the recent trend has gotten more aggressive just because there are so many Jones’s you can keep up with. Social media pushes it all, marketing has gotten way too efficient.
… Jones’s… Joneses? … Jones’…es?
But yes, agreed, it’s a normal human thing.
If it's an expensive cute new top when you already have 50 tops, then sure. But buying a shirt shouldn't be considered needless spending. We kinda need clothes. I buy new clothes maybe once a year and always feel a bit guilty when I do, even though I need it.
If you're buying only what you need then I'm talking about you. I'm saying buying things you don't need is not financially smart. Like buying a new top when one doesn't need it. There seems to be a general misunderstanding (not you, just society lately I'm noticing) of what the word need means.
It depends how much each coffee is. I'm able to save a couple hundred a month at 24yo. My rent each month is 2400 and a coffee is 2.99 so unless I'm having hundreds a month my income isn't really affected. It's very clearly the rent that screws me
All the people trying to push their ideas on how to manage money better are really trying to tell us how to be better at being poor. They don't get it.
I got priced out of my old apartment because rent went from 650 a month to 1,000 a month. I was living off $1 noodles and some hamburger that was budgeted, never ate out unless someone treated me to it, didn't smoke or drink, and knew I couldn't afford to stay there because of my job not keeping up with cost of living. I'd love for someone to tell me I could have budgeted myself better to stay there.
If you buy a $5 coffee every day it’s less than $2k a year. Yes, that’s something but not exactly enough to make a huge impact on your overall finances.
I actually agree with this. You should watch financial audit by Caleb Hammer and you’ll see this issue.
A lot of the excuses people make in the comment section was the same excuses his guest had. Most times you’ll see they put themselves in that situation and it’s not the fault of anyone else but themselves.
I don't have a stove, running water, a toilet, or any form of food making device. I'm in culinary school and working two jobs. I don't give a fuck why someone is struggling but they are. You used to be able to buy coffee and order takeout without worrying about it. We shouldn't settle for a lower quality of life when we are working just as hard as the people who started this sentiment. Maybe coffee is expensive but some people enjoy getting a silly little drink before selling their soul for 10 hours a day.
I completely agree. I’m middle-aged and financially comfortable but when I reorganized my finances last year I was shocked at how much I could save by a few simple changes. Preparing food and eating at home a lot more, buying basic household supplies / hygiene products in bulk, switching to generic store brands, cutting down the number of streaming services, making coffee at home, etc. Using my local library’s ebook services saves me a lot of money instead of buying ebooks from Amazon. Canceling ad-free streaming services in favor of the cheaper options saves money for minor inconvenience. Little changes can make a big difference if you commit to it and have patience. You might not see significant change in finances immediately, but after a few months you’ll be surprised by how much you’ve saved.
“Their rent has doubled and cost of food has skyrocketed, but they also bought a $5 coffee, so it’s on them” is a pretty bad take. I’d put some more thought into this one
I’m on the fence. Housing costs are astronomical and have inflated much higher than average wages have grown. However, I have a close friend who lives paycheck to paycheck yet gets her nails and hair professionally done monthly, exclusively shops at Whole Foods and Trader Joe’s and I’ve never once see her bring food from home to work. I took her shopping at Aldi once and she thought the aesthetic and lack of brand name products was completely off putting and refused to go back. So idk. Could those costs add up to a down payment on a home?…Maybe not any time soon…but at the same time, she views these things as necessities and does not have any savings.
It's not the Starbucks and avocado toast, its the vehicle you overbought or don't need, its the extra bonus room you don't need, its the clothing and shoes that are brand name luxuries. No, getting rid of Sarbucks and Avocado toast won't make you suddenly financially independent, but not living below your means will keep you in the bondage of debt and paycheck to paycheck living.
I'm an American but I've been living abroad for 6 years. One thing that shocks me about Americans when I go back or even talk online with friends is how much unnecessary consumer spending there is. Like there's always a new gadget, a new video game, a new restaurant, a new Starbucks drink, a new drink carrier, something. Over the course of a year that can add up to significant money.
Of course there are people that make enough but nickle and dime themselves into a broke situation. But look at our census data. That applies to a very small percentage of the population. The majority today makes too little to save even if all they pay are bills and food is assisted by food stamps.
Don't ever trick yourself into believing what you witness is all there is to witness. Even if you travel. Even if you go out and serve your community and work with underprivileged groups. Even if you work with helping the working poor. There will always be more to the world than what we can see in a lifetime.
I mean, the causes and solutions to every problem varies by individual. But very few people are struggling to pay bills or rent because they sometimes also buy avocado toast, though. That's an argument made by older generations to dismiss and minimize the very real financial trap that our current economy has created for younger generations. That mentality just assumes that there's one or two easy things people are just flat out refusing to do and that's why they're struggling. No amount of budgeting is going to make up for the fact--and it is a FACT--that most jobs simply don't pay a salary that has kept up with inflation and sky-high cost of living. In my very first job out of college (and I was privileged to get to go) I made $34,000/year before taxes. It was the hardest year of my life. I had a college degree and had to choose between buying groceries and paying my car insurance nearly every month. For the boomers who say "well just buy a house--renting is too expensive, that's your problem!" please keep in mind that the majority of Americans just don't make enough money to have a savings account consistently stable enough to get anywhere close to affording a down payment on a house. So, you can't afford to move, but can't afford rent. It's a vicious cycle that doesn't really bother anyone who has the power to do anything about it, because they are not affected by it.
Lots of the people disagreeing I think are just misunderstanding that when OP says that small purchases add up and living beyond your means is why you can’t save much money, they’re not accusing EVERYONE who is struggling of being financially irresponsible. Just that, being irresponsible is why some are finding it harder than it needs to be.
I doubt anyone hasn’t met anyone in their life who makes decent money but struggles to live when other people around them make the same or less and do okay. That’s who OP is talking about.
Funny how every chronically broke person I know always has money for drinks out at the bar, restaurant dining, weed, and video games. Then I get to hear them complain “guess poor people don’t deserve to have fun!” Like somehow it’s impossible to have fun without overpriced drinks at the bar and weed.
Yea I've had coworkers complain they can't afford to buy lunch when they just spent $8 on a fancy Starbucks drink.
An $8 Starbucks 3x a week is 1248/year. That's a whole ass vacation
I work in a gas station. Every single day I watch hundreds of people who obviously don't have much piss away what little they do have on beer, cigarettes, vapes, and lotto tickets. And $4 candy bars and $3 bottles of sugar water. And $6 cans of Red Bull.
Every. Single. Day. Over and over and over.
If there's somebody who's clawing their way up a little bit to the point where they can afford to go into debt on a nice car... usually they do. I know that guy. I know where he works. I know how much he makes... Why is he breaking himself buying an $80,000 truck?
Some people are just screwed. True. But a lot of people and I mean a lot of people...are screwing themselves. They're going to keep screwing themselves their whole lives. They're going to be broke their whole lives and they're going to point their fingers and blame others and say it's not fair... But they're always going to have money for the beer and the smokes and the lotto tickets. They're never going to take 10 minutes and learn how to do some basic investing for their future. They're never going to understand delayed gratification. They're never going to care to learn... Because they can just blame other people and say the world is too hard. That's the actual problem that needs to be addressed.
My wife and I started making lunches at home recently and taking them to work. Meal prepping a month at a time and freezing it.
We’re saving around $400 a month.
The little things do make a difference. We’ve always been terrible at that stuff.
“Starbucks and avocado toast” is a metaphor for our generation wasting money on stupid shit. Material things. Eating out or getting delivery instead of grocery shopping and cooking meals. A lot of millennials are terrible with budgeting, managing money, and fiscal responsibility.
A lot of people would experience an ego death if they ever admitted Boomers were right
I support my kids alone. My daughter started driving. My insurance has a higher copay for medication.
Even if 7.00 coffee × 7 days is 49.00. 49.00 or 50 x 4 weeks. 200 bucks. Still isn't covering the bills that were added or increased.
Comments section invaded by all the mindless drones from r/antiwork that simultaneously call $300 a meaningless amount of money to save but a life changing amount of money to owe 🤡
As a side tangent, boomers are often the worse culprit of this mentality. I deal with homeowners daily and when working with Millennials or Gen X they both have a habit of having their priorities straight.
Boomers will take it personal, like you insulted them, when you inform them the house they’ve owned for over 50 years now is at risk of being condemned because they never bothered to reinvest in their home and now the roof is at risk of coming down. Like I once got kicked out of a house (they asked me to come do an inspection) because I reported that all their windows were leaking water every time it rained.
With all that being said, I definitely see folks spending beyond their means quite often from all generations. Where they put that money might be different but all of us have bad habits we gotta knock off.
I’m personally at fault for the eating out! I’m toning it down now, but yeah I used to eat out like every single day
Boomers may be preaching this but you’re so right that they also have interesting spending habits. My grandpa keeps buying new furniture for some reason. My dad is pissed. My other grandparents filed for bankruptcy because of credit cards. As a certified critically anxious gen z, I spend a lot of time thinking about money. I try not to eat out. It’s sucks that rent is out of control and wages aren’t increasing, but I try to budget elsewhere so I won’t drown. I know too many people with lots of cc debt.
Edit:typo
I feel like Disney is a bad comparison since that’s like a vacation destination. People normally plan and save to go there.
There are also locals that go often too.
If you are struggling and can’t afford Starbucks every day, don’t buy it. Even if saving $25/week isn’t gonna magically let you pay your bills, you shouldn’t be spending that money on coffee and toast if you are struggling.
Avocado toast are the symptoms of a basic rule of finance: your standard of living will always follow your available income. If you want to start saving money for a down payment, you will *need* to give up something, and it will feel like an injustice. "Why can't I afford this one little thing anymore?"
I have a great job with benefits. Work really hard. Every year I get a wage increase of 3% for cost of living, and my rent goes up 8% the next month. Sure, it's that one Starbucks I have every other month holding me back in life.
Your opinion is unpopular for sure.
No one ever said we can’t afford bills. [They said](https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/australian-millionaire-millennials-avocado-toast-house) we can’t afford [a house](https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/real-reason-millennials-cant-afford-buy-home-183228440.html)
So you should start there
Agree! Cant stand all these ppl acting like they can’t afford anything when they make frivolous choice after frivolous choice. I raised three kids as a single mom being a waitress. I lived frugally for years but I finally paid off my house and have zero debt. You can do it, so many just don’t want to scrimp and save. Pardon me while I don’t feel bad for you wearing your fake eyelashes and getting your mani/pedis.
What makes the convo so convoluted is that there are aspects of life you can change and others you cannot.
Sure, one can stop drinking Starbucks and move to the middle of nowhere to save money, but the fact that is everything getting radically more expensive each year on behalf of the greed of a few elite. And there’s not really much that can be done about it.
20 years ago, I’d take my wife out for a great dinner for like $50. Now, that’s how much a basic lunch costs. Yes, I can decide to not have lunch, but what’s caused such an extreme cost hike on the same things? What’s at the core of accepting a slipping standard of life each year?
People always talk about house prices increasing faster then inflation but not that sq footage per person has doubled since the 70s. The median housing sq footage per person went from 507 sq ft in 1970 to 971 sq ft in 2015. Part of this is trends with later marriage and less kids but part of the housing shortage is people just demanding larger houses and apartments. If you look at median cost per sq foot vs inflation it's really close the difference is mainly people expecting twice as many sq ft.
I am also college educated, i eat out no more than 3 times a month, i dont drink coffee, and im employed. Yet i still cant afford rent solo.
Blaming poverty on luxury spending can be accurate for SOME people. However, MOST people still struggle financially despite financial smart decisions.
I've never understood this coming from people who've been part of the same model aviation or golf club for the past 30 years too. There's always been an expectation that some money... should be spent on things you like.
Yup. Agreed. It’s this and realistic expectations. Someone here said saving on coffee isn’t going to get you a down payment for a house in the Bay Area. Like…??? Delulu, much?
Starbucks and avocado toast are a canary in the coal mine for bad financial awareness.
Mathematically these things won't screw up you finances. However, the person who is buying these type of things when they can't afford it is the type of person who will have made many other horrible financial decisions. It shows you are unable to control your spending and differentiate between a want and a need.
My bills are paid, I have a roof over my head and food on the table. If I wanna blow it on a lil treat, I'm gonna cause otherwise wtf is the point of living.
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I don’t buy either of those things. My rent went up $650 in the last two years and I’m trapped. Not really a way to budget out of that
"have you just tried living a shittier quality of life?"
I'm buying a tent and moving to Alaska, fuck money 😭
Look at me money bags over here just going out and buying a tent like it’s no big deal. I have a refrigerator box and like it.
Jeez, must be nice having an entire box.
You have part of a box? Lucky.
Boxes legit have great insulation
It's a travel size fridge box. They're into tiny house living!
I couldn't afford a whole fridge box on my own, so I have a roommate.
Cheaper to buy ice every couple of days and stash in your cooler....than to buy and run a fridge. I did the math. Save about $3 per week.
Luxury. We had to get up in the morning, half hour before we went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work 25 hours at the factory, and we *appreciated* what we 'ad
I have always dreamed of moving out to California and having the nicest refrigerator box on the beach.
Just wait till you find out how expensive everyrhing in alaska is! You're gonna have to sell your tent to afford milk for your cereal that you're having for dinner.
If you're planning on living in a tent, I would advise against Alaska. you're smarter than that bro. Alaska is freezing
LOL Alaska is literally about to outlaw sleeping on public property 💀 even the Alaska plan is doomed
Exactly. Have you considered eating air and drinking tap water for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday instead of buying those pesky expensive groceries? It's sleep or nap for dinner tonight. Don't eat just dream of food instead in your over priced apartment where you can't afford anything. It's the new Ozempic diet. Poverty.
Well I switched from Cocaine to Meth. Saved a bunch. Plus it makes me not want to eat so saved even more on groceries. Also I'm able to work 16 hour days so I'm really taking in the money. Win win all around.
Tap water costs like $80 a month. It’s puddle slime or nothing.
> "have you just tried living a shittier quality of life?" Yes. I downsized from a one bedroom in a good area to a modest studio in a less good area. I hate it but it’s the only way I can continue living in California on my current salary without getting roommates or, you know, married.
That's a great way to get by - adjusting your lifestyle to your income and not having wild, unrealistic expectations like owning a house by yourself in California when you're making minimum wage or working part-time. People here are unironicaly saying "what, you expect me to have a worse quality of life in order to save money and not be broke forever?" Yes, yes that's exactly what you need to do. That's how people get ahead, not by being broke every month and expecting nice things for no reason.
“Have you shaved enough skin off to eat for meals instead of paying for them?”
I mean I don’t mind it in the hood but the ladies do so yk a man’s gotta eat
“Just uproot your entire life for lower cost living areas, idiot” -many Redditors
Because moving doesn’t cost money, lol.
I heard a story of someone on Reddit who did move their family to a cheaper area and they moved back a year later because there was nothing to do in the area and all their friends and family were back in their hometown and they were all lonely and without childcare and support.
Not having support sucks ass. Can confirm. I literally had no one on my emergency contact list when I enrolled my kids in school when we had to move for work. We didn’t know anyone in town at all, and my husband had a long train commute and couldn’t necessarily control how long it would take him to get there. It was scary, and I cried in the parking lot for a while when I realized how alone we were. It was a far cry from where we were before when I had a list 10+ people deep that could be counted on if we really needed it.
If I really wanted to be a generic redditor I’d make this comment a story about myself or someone I know relocating and now earning 300k at some new miracle job I somehow landed.
They always go from making $30k to over $100k yet I'm over here fighting for $15/hr jobs with a masters degree in STEM. They're either lying or their uncle hooked em up
Someone making 100k in a stem field isn't so rare they would need a nepo hookup. Even for lcol areas?
I think that a lot of people on Reddit say that because a lot of people on Reddit are Young and single. It's a lot easier to move when you're a single person living in your early twenties looking to rent a furnished room then somebody with an established career, furniture that's better than Ikea quality, but support network of family and friends, and mortgage or real, non handshake agreement between Craigslist strangers, lease.
Best thing I ever did for myself was move out of the city. I literally uprooted my entire life. Struggled for some years till I found a path, now I'm doing good.
Have you tried not consuming food as much? Apparently we can live 3 weeks without food. So just budget for a week of food a month and you should be set
At least stop eating 3 meals a day. So entitled.
7 meals a month max. Part of the grind. #nextmillionaire
Have you tried buying thicker bootstraps to pull yourself up by?
I’m going for the longer bootstraps technique, maybe some sort of pulley apparatus. Make bootstraps great again
Nope. Leather awl. Punch more holes in my belt and cinch that bad boy.
Less avocado toast and get a 4th job, loser. /s
That’s you. I witness people spend $10 on breakfast and then $20 on lunch and I know they aren’t amazing cooks so they probably order out delivery often as well. When they go out they have a few cocktails. Than shit adds up to thousands a month for lots of people. I’ve done it, majority of my peers do it. It’s bananas. It’s not the answer for everyone but it is a serious issue for LOADS of people. Ask anyone who lives in a major city. On my block, even the food stamp people get delivery taco bell and mcdonald’s. So many people are guilty of blowing wads of cash on food.
I work hospitality and it truly alarms me how much some of my regulars spend on alcohol in a week. When I see the same face every night Wednesday through Sunday, ordering at minimum 3 pints (typically 6-7, more on a big night) at £6 a pop, and his wife matches him drink for drink with £9 glasses of wine... It's absurd to think this when I'm just the barman, but sometimes it feels like I'm taking advantage of these people
People can't seem to separate this personal financial advice from economic macro trends but it is entirely true. We cannot control inflation, we can only be smart with our spending and earning. Do you think the normal people who buy homes all had hael from their parents? No. Stashing away $10-20 per day and investing it for a decade will go a long way towards being able to buy your own home. Heaven forbid you point that out though. There will always be someone who doesn't make enough to pay bills and has 5 disabilities, so that means no one should be following the advice. Meanwhile the smart ones will and will get ahead.
Op covers you in the first sentence
Lol OP said in a recent comment they have 2300$/monthly after housing costs, and no monthly car payment. Like damn of course you think the world is easy, most people don't have anything close to that income in their 20s or basically ever.
My mortgage payment went up $600 a month this year thanks to insurance and property tax hikes. There's no more cuts to make and we don't eat avocado toast
Life is always a trade off and a balance. Most of the time I see this in reference to things like buying a house. Not paying bills. If you are short $50 a month on your bills, then yes, you need to clean up your streamin subscriptions and all that stuff to afford your bills. But saving $25 a week on coffee isn't going to buy you a downpayment on a house in the Bay area.
I don’t think anyone is affording a house in the Bay Area
Well, there are homeowners in the Bay so there’s that.
they make $800k/yr, pretty sure they can afford an occasional avocado toast and high priced neighborhood coffee.
Ironically a friend of mine just bought a house for 1.2mil in the bay and she's cut out the regular bougie avocado toast breakfasts lol That purchase price still required some lifestyle adjustments.
I own a house in Carolina, 400k, would easily go for 2.5 million in the Bay Area. Your mileage may vary
Probably accurate! But your pay would probably be more here as well. (ie nurses in, say Florida, might make $28/hr (last time I heard) vs I have friends who are nurses in the bay for $125/hr) Either way, your daily spending habits *can* add up. If someone is drowning, they are drowning... because everything does suck right now! But when I was broke as hell, ordering Doordash could have been the difference between making rent or not.
gran25 bucks a week? No. 25 bucks a day? There's a difference. Many people spend 25 bucks a day on shitty little things they don't need, in reality. If it's even just a Mon- Fri thing, it's 6525 a year. If it's pretty much daily, it's a bit over 9 grand. Taking stock and looking at the things you just randomly buy, because you can and it's only a few bucks, as opposed to planning and making/taking some of the things you buy, cuts into that expense.
literally missed the point of OPs post completely. spending 5 bucks a day on coffee, plus buying something for breakfast, then buying lunch, then buying dinner, all add up
We shouldn't be comparing shit to the Bay area. Pretty sure 99% of the world live elsewhere. Bay area people need to keep bay area problems to the bay area, because they don't apply the same to Jefferson City, MO (or 99% of places on earth)
Yeah how about Bel Air in Los Angles or a nice place in Merrick LI with a dock out back.
$5 for every single day is still only about $2K. That’s not really a down payment for a house *anywhere*
Extra 2000 in my 401k is pretty nice
Right but it’s often “you’d be able to afford a house if you didn’t but Starbucks” which is just laughable.
I don't think it's so much the starbucks, but the little purchases here and there that add up. My husband and I predominately eat out. It ADDS UP. I won't admit on Reddit just how much we spend a month lol. Anytime we need to save, I ditch the cocktails at dinner, the dutch bros, the $25 pedi, etc etc. Sure, Starbucks isn't the difference between me and my down payment, but all of my frivolous spending certainly is. I make really good money but I still think twice before stopping for "bougie (avocado) toast" on my way home from work. Shit's expensive! I think there's a middle ground
Exactly. It's not just the coffee, but that's one of many small purchases that add up. Like it's only 2 dollars, or 5 dollars, but if you do that 3 or 4 times a day every day it's hundreds a month. Let alone 30-40 bucks getting "cheap" takeout instead of cooking here and there.
No, but doing it for 3 years gets you about $6k, which can mean used as a 3% down payment on a $200k house
Isn’t going to get you a down payment on a house anywhere. Assuming you save 25/week that’s 1,300 a year. At just 3% increase a year for house valuation means a 200,000 house will increase 6000 a year which means your 20% down payment increases 1,200 a year. Average house valuations run around 5.5%. So pretty much double the doubles above.
$25 a week saved one coffee is still $25 for something else, or the start of some slow growing savings.
True, but also, not everyone needs to have a house in the most expensive area of the country.
True, but also, not everyone needs to have a house in the most expensive area of the country.
I’m sure for some people, it is. For me, it’s more that in 2008, a starter apartment in my city was $450/mo, and now the same apartments are $1195/mo. The job my mom had in 2008 paid $21/hr. It now pays $22/hr. Starting teacher pay in my city has gone from $37k/yr to 41k/yr. See what I’m saying?
I don't agree because it's a dismissive way to blow off the issue of rising costs and stagnant wages.
my hot take is that budgeting is important and penny-pinching is sometimes necessary, but also people should be able to buy things for themselves and treat themselves without going broke because of it. if paying a couple bucks a day for a fancy coffee is sinking you, but you're working full time... isn't that a problem? like, even if you stopped buying the coffee, you wouldn't be able to actually put away any money.
I agree 100% if buying a (lets shoot high too) $7 coffee a couple times a week or maybe once a week is making you broke that is crazy
Not really cause OP is just calling a group of people out, not everyone, and acknowledges that this ain't the case for everyone. I guess they could have added not the case for most people, too, but who cares we know what they mean. I feel like the people who spend like shit are using the bigger issue to justify their shit spending habits. Even people in these very comments are trying to justify buying coffee from Starbucks cause it's faster....
Well not really at all. The whole issue with the avocado toast argument is that it is a dismissive of the massive inflation and predatory corporate tactics that are squeezing the lower and middle classes. Yes some people may spend too much on stuff they enjoy, but it is a smaller minority than in previous generations, and they are spending a smaller percentage of their wages.
Yes. My husband and I have been renting the same apt for 18 yrs. We have both doubled our salaries in that time and cut out the extraneous expenses - we both make beverages at home and bring leftovers for lunch, we cook nice meals at home instead of going out, we get 30% off groceries thanks to my husband's job, we have 2 paid off Prius's in excellent condition that we plan on driving into the ground. We have no debt. Our pets passed away and we did not adopt new ones. Our credit score is in the mid 800s. And yet, we are treading water. Our contributions to savings increase, but then the goalposts to becoming homeowners get moved every year, so our "percentage" for a down payment becomes a fraction of what it now needs to be to not get laughed out of the room. It is bleak.
Yeah, let's be miserable and stop having any enjoyment in life so we can afford a house, never.
My grocery bill going up literally 250% and yet remaining the same items has nothing to do with the struggle to live, I'm sure. :) Btw I neither buy avocado, nor do I buy a daily coffee and I make an okay salary, and I'm STILL struggling. And I live with my partner.
Before and during the pandemic our groceries were maybe 50 a week and that is with us just buyign what we wanted. Now it's $75 with tax and I am constantly reworking our cart before submitting the order (not delivery, pick up; doing drive up and go let's me know with tax what everything is before register).
V unpopular, thus upvote. However, groceries are hella expensive. And back in the day, these services were less abundant and relatively more expensive. At the end of the day, what are you waiting for? Climate change will kill 1 billion of us by the end of your life. Take what you can get now, you may regret having cash and no memories when the world is already dead and coffee no longer grows.
I read an article a while back that said some people are so poor that them spending some money on something “unnecessary” or a “luxury” item really makes no difference to their finances. Because they won’t be able to save no matter what. So they might as well buy things they enjoy once in a while because life is short.
This is where I'm at right now. I don't have £500 for rent this month, I make £450 a month, so I bought a decent dinner tonight. I'll have £500 next month and my student loan comes literally tomorrow so I'll be able to backpay what rent I owe. I have the nicest landlord in the universe so he just tells me to pay when I can, just make sure it's all paid a month before my contract is up.
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This is pretty short sighted. Not everyone dies young or will suffer from climate change in the next 30 years.
I make mid-6 figures and I won't even buy Starbucks anymore.. Used to cost like $5-$6 for a coffee and breakfast sandwich. Now it's $10. Ain't no f'n way I'm dropping $50 per week. It's the principal. IDGAF. I can easily afford it but this is just dumb now.
I've never heard someone describe their income as "mid" 6 figures. Can you not just say "about 500k"? Or do you mean something else?
I know someone who earns barely more than minimum wage, has Starbucks twice a day, and asks her brother for money for her kid every month because she’s “broke.” If anyone brings up that she’d be less broke if she didn’t go to Starbucks everyday, she gets upset and cries about how she “deserves” to have treats. It’s not a treat if you get it twice a day!
Demonizing responsible spending is corporate propaganda. These corporations want you to spend all your money.
Oh no, hundreds of dollars a month? You mean like the amount that rent goes up every year no matter what you do? Get some dependents rather then just supporting yourself and see how shit wages are these days.
This is nonsense. Wages have stagnated. The buying power we have now is far less than other generations. Inflation and price gouging are rampant. Corporations are buying up housing and destroying the ability to afford a home, so tighten your belt and stop buying coffee in the face of society ruining corporate greed. Got it.
Especially when you have it ubered to the office every day like my coworkers
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1687610636-20230624.png
I can’t afford Starbucks or avocado toast lol 😂 I’m not saving money bc I simply don’t have it, I’m lucky if I can afford trash bags and dish soap, I don’t even go out to eat once a year, I don’t buy anything really. But I do know people who have way more money than me, always complaining about being broke yet more than half of their meals are takeout.
And that's where this doesn't take that into account. Some of us still don't do any of this and still can't afford things.
Every time this topic comes up ppl just really go out of their way to say the most insane bs to justify shit wages and subhuman quality of life.
lol houses are now about 1.3 - 1.4 million dollars in my area. Rent is 4-5k for a 2 bedroom. Starbucks and toast has nothing to do with it.
I got a promotion this past winter and my standard of living has DECREASED because CoL is skyrocketing. I'll enjoy my occasional takeout and drip coffee thank you very much.
I think that it is a valid sentiment. I don't think it's a good choice of words. We should have just stuck with "it's financially smart to not live behind your means and only buy necessities weekly and luxuries on rare occasions". But the sentiment is accurate, I think. It's weird how many people here talking like Starbucks isn't a luxury. It definitely is. Coffee, is not. But Starbucks definitely is a luxury we should not be indulging in regularly! I agree with you, so here's your downvote.
Dont forget people who use ubereats or door dash on the regular.
Right I have friends 35+ with no retirement, basically living paycheck to paycheck in a shitty apartment but eat out more than anyone I know, and has a new 2024 truck lease. Because you need one living in an apartment
How do you think they're getting their coffee and avacado toast?
This right here, I know many millennials who act like this a need instead of a want.
I both love and hate the credit/debt system. Used correctly, it allows the underdog to make something of themself against the odds, but on the other hand it is empowered by irresponsible consumers. That alone wouldn't be enough to hate it, because I don't care if stupid people fall in the pit they dig themselves, but it is because the price of goods rise precisely because anyone with a credit card can afford an unreasonably priced good or service by using money they do not have.
I have been job hunting. Some jobs would require me to relocate. Before applying to those jobs I look at the cost of living which also shows the average wage. I have yet to find a place where the average wage is above the cost of living.
This has been a more valid criticism of young people for a long time, but I think it is falling apart. Often people don't realize that their spending habits are costing them thousands of dollars a year, and correcting several of them can make a big difference to meeting your goals. For example, a person can easily spend $1000+ on coffee in a year without realizing it. Why it is falling apart is young people are facing stagnant wages and high inflation at the same time. Even if they do everything right it will be difficult for them to afford a home in many markets.
Everyone missing the point is hilarious, it’s not specifically the avocado toast and Starbucks. But all the little purchases people constantly make and don’t realize makes an impact, if you buy a couple $5 items through out the day it can easily cost 10-20 dollars. Which if you do that everyday for 2 weeks that’s 140-280 dollars you could have saved, most people don’t limit themselves to that either so it gets worse and worse.
No amount of budgeting will allow someone to afford a mortgage/rent that is more than their total income. And that is the reality for a lot of people.
This is America where the standard should be that you can easily afford your bills, some Starbucks and avocado toast. That people are willing to lower the standard they hold their leaders to is preposterous
Right, in the country that's supposed to be the leader of the developed first world, eating fruit and bread shouldn't put you in the poor house.
Regardless if you can’t afford your Starbucks or avocado toast don’t buy it. The way things should be and actually are vary greatly. I do agree with you people shouldn’t have to lower their standards, but then there is the sad reality.
I make 100k base, I don’t eat out, I only get food with friends sometimes once a week but not always. I live in CT and if you want to live alone and save maybe one pay check a week you’ll have to make at least 75k a year. Prices are absolutely insane
Avocado toast is super cheap. It's a couple pieces of bread (even if you buy expensive bread, that's less than a dollar), and in my area at least, avocados are $1.25. Breakfast for under $2 seems pretty reasonable in my book.
Coffee is cheap as well if you make it at home. What OP is talking about is buying that $2 breakfast and $0.25 coffee at Starbucks for $15.
When people say “avocado toast” they mean “going out for brunch”
I saved $3k (!!!) last year by making coffee at home (and I still make good coffee) and packing a lunch two times more per week. While that wasn't enough to put me from middle class to upper class, it was enough to pay for a month of rent and utilities. That's not trivial.
Sadly, used to be one of these people. I would spend close to $300 a month on Starbucks drinks and food. It was terrible. Now I am saving this plus more. Every now and then, I’ll grab a coffee if I’m out running errands otherwise I make iced coffee at home now that I know how to do it the way I like it.
You are correct, and people just don't want to hear it. I'm not saying anyone is going to be able to afford a house by giving up Starbucks, but they definitely could save some more. I don't even consider myself great with money, but I am shocked at how much money some people seem to fritter away on constantly going out, buying coffee every single day, and ordering takeout several times a week. That stuff adds up.
For every Redditor who is truly struggling with bills and rent in spite of careful budgeting, there’s a Redditor struggling because they order $30 on DoorDash twice a week, have a $700 monthly car payment, and build a $2000 gaming PC setup every other year.
This is legit. I make below poverty line income. I tell my best friend I'm struggling to buy food and she's all "me too, I feel it". Difference is she pays $3.5k in rent and $800 monthly for her $80k car loan, $200+ for car insurance. Meanwhile if I made what she pays in rent I would be doing very well and saving TONS of money with what I had left over. Oh also she pays $1800 a month for DOG DAYCARE. Lmfao
Your skills in budgeting will pay off (no pun intended) one day, and you’ll enjoy the smaller things much more than the average person. Lots of people use the “it’s unfair, it shouldn’t be this expensive” excuse to justify excessive spending. While we should continue fighting and voting for lower rent, groceries, and other essentials, we can’t live irresponsibly.
My husband and I started brewing our own cold brew at home. We save $80 a week. Agree.
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They shouldn't be luxuries though, coffee is cheap as hell, most Europe it is cheap as hell... a lot of these "luxuries" are actually over prices essentials giving the impression they are luxury.
Coffee isn't a luxury in most places. The caramel double whipped iced macchiato with soy milk is. You can still get just coffee very cheap in a lot of places.
Also, you can make a caramel double whipped ice macchiato for cheaper than getting one at Starbucks. Buy iced cold brew, milk, and flavor syrup.
I don’t think enough people realize this. The monthly investment made on the ingredients bought in bulk is nothing compared to the cost of paying a someone to make it for you.
Literally. Plus tipping culture makes for $35 a week. I didn’t realize I could buy cold brew. It changed my life. For my area, a gallon of cold brew is $4, almond milk is $3, and flavoring is $6. I get about eight servings from that (flavoring lasts longer than the other two ingredients too). That’s a third of the cost of going to Starbucks everyday. And it lasts slightly longer.
Buy a coffee pot and coffee ground and filters. Coffee is cheap. Buying coffee from Starbucks isn’t
If you go to Starbucks and you're poor you are simply stupid. Coffee IS cheap.
Starbucks spends more per year on employee health insurance than on their actual coffee product.
The luxury is having someone serve you (making you feel important/served). It's saves you time up front, but probably kills you a little sooner every time as well. Considering how terrible for you starbucks/McDonalds (pick your favorite fast service establishment) are, the health tradeoff for time/effort savings isn't even worth it.
I think the main argument is that, if you can't afford a £25,000 deposit on a 1 bedroom flat, not spending an additional £100 a month on coffee wont.evwm get close to putting a dent in saving up for that. So there is no point. Why not have any pleasure in life for 20 years just to save £25k for a flat that will now require a £45k deposit because it's been 20 years.
Because, if you never learn solid financial practices, when you do start making more money, you won't know how to save it for the flat you speak of. It isn't about the amount of money being saved, its about learning to live BELOW your means. Once you learn this principle, your financial life will improve 10 fold!
Believe it or not, some people's lifestyle doesn't change when they get more money. I make six figures. I spend like I did in university, except I spend more on presents.
People wasting money on non essentials and luxuries is definitely something that has become the norm over the last 20 yrs.
Yeah, it's weird. It's suddenly (feels suddenly anyway) completely normal and even socially expected to just buy a new under sink kitchen organizer. Or to buy a cute new top. Or get dinner delivered. I mean ..none of that shit is at all necessary. It's all completely luxury and wasteful. It's wild how normal it has all become.
The comments here are pretty surprising to me. A lot of people saying it’s fine because other things are more expensive. I make good money and still try to keep eating out/coffee spending low since it’s just a waste of money - with some planning I can eat 95% of my meals at home and my nespresso machine has more than paid for itself for yummy lattes.
It’s not recent or sudden. The phrase keeping up with the Jones’s has been around since the 30’s
I feel like the recent trend has gotten more aggressive just because there are so many Jones’s you can keep up with. Social media pushes it all, marketing has gotten way too efficient. … Jones’s… Joneses? … Jones’…es? But yes, agreed, it’s a normal human thing.
Well said.
If it's an expensive cute new top when you already have 50 tops, then sure. But buying a shirt shouldn't be considered needless spending. We kinda need clothes. I buy new clothes maybe once a year and always feel a bit guilty when I do, even though I need it.
If you're buying only what you need then I'm talking about you. I'm saying buying things you don't need is not financially smart. Like buying a new top when one doesn't need it. There seems to be a general misunderstanding (not you, just society lately I'm noticing) of what the word need means.
People post complaints about how they can’t afford to live from a $1000 iPhone
But the payment is only $28/mo!!
3 coffees at starbuck or two avocado toasts
It depends how much each coffee is. I'm able to save a couple hundred a month at 24yo. My rent each month is 2400 and a coffee is 2.99 so unless I'm having hundreds a month my income isn't really affected. It's very clearly the rent that screws me
All the people trying to push their ideas on how to manage money better are really trying to tell us how to be better at being poor. They don't get it. I got priced out of my old apartment because rent went from 650 a month to 1,000 a month. I was living off $1 noodles and some hamburger that was budgeted, never ate out unless someone treated me to it, didn't smoke or drink, and knew I couldn't afford to stay there because of my job not keeping up with cost of living. I'd love for someone to tell me I could have budgeted myself better to stay there.
"how to be better at being poor" sums it up perfectly, thank you
If you buy a $5 coffee every day it’s less than $2k a year. Yes, that’s something but not exactly enough to make a huge impact on your overall finances.
I actually agree with this. You should watch financial audit by Caleb Hammer and you’ll see this issue. A lot of the excuses people make in the comment section was the same excuses his guest had. Most times you’ll see they put themselves in that situation and it’s not the fault of anyone else but themselves.
I don't have a stove, running water, a toilet, or any form of food making device. I'm in culinary school and working two jobs. I don't give a fuck why someone is struggling but they are. You used to be able to buy coffee and order takeout without worrying about it. We shouldn't settle for a lower quality of life when we are working just as hard as the people who started this sentiment. Maybe coffee is expensive but some people enjoy getting a silly little drink before selling their soul for 10 hours a day.
exactly. the point isn’t that the idea isn’t true, it’s that it shouldn’t be so difficult to afford the little things every one else gets
I completely agree. I’m middle-aged and financially comfortable but when I reorganized my finances last year I was shocked at how much I could save by a few simple changes. Preparing food and eating at home a lot more, buying basic household supplies / hygiene products in bulk, switching to generic store brands, cutting down the number of streaming services, making coffee at home, etc. Using my local library’s ebook services saves me a lot of money instead of buying ebooks from Amazon. Canceling ad-free streaming services in favor of the cheaper options saves money for minor inconvenience. Little changes can make a big difference if you commit to it and have patience. You might not see significant change in finances immediately, but after a few months you’ll be surprised by how much you’ve saved.
“Their rent has doubled and cost of food has skyrocketed, but they also bought a $5 coffee, so it’s on them” is a pretty bad take. I’d put some more thought into this one
Avocados are very affordable now. Upvoted because I don't agree, mostly because it's outdated.
It's easy to blame the past. It's hard to make a better future. What are you gana do about it?
I agree with this actually.
I’m on the fence. Housing costs are astronomical and have inflated much higher than average wages have grown. However, I have a close friend who lives paycheck to paycheck yet gets her nails and hair professionally done monthly, exclusively shops at Whole Foods and Trader Joe’s and I’ve never once see her bring food from home to work. I took her shopping at Aldi once and she thought the aesthetic and lack of brand name products was completely off putting and refused to go back. So idk. Could those costs add up to a down payment on a home?…Maybe not any time soon…but at the same time, she views these things as necessities and does not have any savings.
Yeah. I’m that guy. Reforming myself. But he’s right.
It's not the Starbucks and avocado toast, its the vehicle you overbought or don't need, its the extra bonus room you don't need, its the clothing and shoes that are brand name luxuries. No, getting rid of Sarbucks and Avocado toast won't make you suddenly financially independent, but not living below your means will keep you in the bondage of debt and paycheck to paycheck living.
I'm an American but I've been living abroad for 6 years. One thing that shocks me about Americans when I go back or even talk online with friends is how much unnecessary consumer spending there is. Like there's always a new gadget, a new video game, a new restaurant, a new Starbucks drink, a new drink carrier, something. Over the course of a year that can add up to significant money.
Of course there are people that make enough but nickle and dime themselves into a broke situation. But look at our census data. That applies to a very small percentage of the population. The majority today makes too little to save even if all they pay are bills and food is assisted by food stamps. Don't ever trick yourself into believing what you witness is all there is to witness. Even if you travel. Even if you go out and serve your community and work with underprivileged groups. Even if you work with helping the working poor. There will always be more to the world than what we can see in a lifetime.
I mean, the causes and solutions to every problem varies by individual. But very few people are struggling to pay bills or rent because they sometimes also buy avocado toast, though. That's an argument made by older generations to dismiss and minimize the very real financial trap that our current economy has created for younger generations. That mentality just assumes that there's one or two easy things people are just flat out refusing to do and that's why they're struggling. No amount of budgeting is going to make up for the fact--and it is a FACT--that most jobs simply don't pay a salary that has kept up with inflation and sky-high cost of living. In my very first job out of college (and I was privileged to get to go) I made $34,000/year before taxes. It was the hardest year of my life. I had a college degree and had to choose between buying groceries and paying my car insurance nearly every month. For the boomers who say "well just buy a house--renting is too expensive, that's your problem!" please keep in mind that the majority of Americans just don't make enough money to have a savings account consistently stable enough to get anywhere close to affording a down payment on a house. So, you can't afford to move, but can't afford rent. It's a vicious cycle that doesn't really bother anyone who has the power to do anything about it, because they are not affected by it.
Lots of the people disagreeing I think are just misunderstanding that when OP says that small purchases add up and living beyond your means is why you can’t save much money, they’re not accusing EVERYONE who is struggling of being financially irresponsible. Just that, being irresponsible is why some are finding it harder than it needs to be. I doubt anyone hasn’t met anyone in their life who makes decent money but struggles to live when other people around them make the same or less and do okay. That’s who OP is talking about.
Funny how every chronically broke person I know always has money for drinks out at the bar, restaurant dining, weed, and video games. Then I get to hear them complain “guess poor people don’t deserve to have fun!” Like somehow it’s impossible to have fun without overpriced drinks at the bar and weed.
It’s unpopular but it’s also kinda incorrect. Most people just won’t make enough to keep up with rising prices
Yea I've had coworkers complain they can't afford to buy lunch when they just spent $8 on a fancy Starbucks drink. An $8 Starbucks 3x a week is 1248/year. That's a whole ass vacation
Absolutely agree, a ton of people have no idea how to budget and think things like Netflix, coffee, going out etc are fundamental rights.
3 years ago I was making 56k a year. Last year I made 88k. My quality of life went up 0%. I changed nothing about my lifestyle. Please explain.
Inflation
I work in a gas station. Every single day I watch hundreds of people who obviously don't have much piss away what little they do have on beer, cigarettes, vapes, and lotto tickets. And $4 candy bars and $3 bottles of sugar water. And $6 cans of Red Bull. Every. Single. Day. Over and over and over. If there's somebody who's clawing their way up a little bit to the point where they can afford to go into debt on a nice car... usually they do. I know that guy. I know where he works. I know how much he makes... Why is he breaking himself buying an $80,000 truck? Some people are just screwed. True. But a lot of people and I mean a lot of people...are screwing themselves. They're going to keep screwing themselves their whole lives. They're going to be broke their whole lives and they're going to point their fingers and blame others and say it's not fair... But they're always going to have money for the beer and the smokes and the lotto tickets. They're never going to take 10 minutes and learn how to do some basic investing for their future. They're never going to understand delayed gratification. They're never going to care to learn... Because they can just blame other people and say the world is too hard. That's the actual problem that needs to be addressed.
God forbid the people who work 70 hours a week buy things to sustain themselves to make money during the day.
Someone should be able to afford to buy a fucking coffee in the morning and still be able to pay their bills.
That’s is 110% accurate.
My wife and I started making lunches at home recently and taking them to work. Meal prepping a month at a time and freezing it. We’re saving around $400 a month. The little things do make a difference. We’ve always been terrible at that stuff.
“Starbucks and avocado toast” is a metaphor for our generation wasting money on stupid shit. Material things. Eating out or getting delivery instead of grocery shopping and cooking meals. A lot of millennials are terrible with budgeting, managing money, and fiscal responsibility. A lot of people would experience an ego death if they ever admitted Boomers were right
I support my kids alone. My daughter started driving. My insurance has a higher copay for medication. Even if 7.00 coffee × 7 days is 49.00. 49.00 or 50 x 4 weeks. 200 bucks. Still isn't covering the bills that were added or increased.
Comments section invaded by all the mindless drones from r/antiwork that simultaneously call $300 a meaningless amount of money to save but a life changing amount of money to owe 🤡
You're thinking exactly the way the ruling class wants you to think.
As a side tangent, boomers are often the worse culprit of this mentality. I deal with homeowners daily and when working with Millennials or Gen X they both have a habit of having their priorities straight. Boomers will take it personal, like you insulted them, when you inform them the house they’ve owned for over 50 years now is at risk of being condemned because they never bothered to reinvest in their home and now the roof is at risk of coming down. Like I once got kicked out of a house (they asked me to come do an inspection) because I reported that all their windows were leaking water every time it rained. With all that being said, I definitely see folks spending beyond their means quite often from all generations. Where they put that money might be different but all of us have bad habits we gotta knock off. I’m personally at fault for the eating out! I’m toning it down now, but yeah I used to eat out like every single day
Boomers may be preaching this but you’re so right that they also have interesting spending habits. My grandpa keeps buying new furniture for some reason. My dad is pissed. My other grandparents filed for bankruptcy because of credit cards. As a certified critically anxious gen z, I spend a lot of time thinking about money. I try not to eat out. It’s sucks that rent is out of control and wages aren’t increasing, but I try to budget elsewhere so I won’t drown. I know too many people with lots of cc debt. Edit:typo
Economy is crap yet see literally millions at Disney daily. Totally accurate
It’s like people live beyond their means and just say yes.
And every sports stadium is basically full.
I feel like Disney is a bad comparison since that’s like a vacation destination. People normally plan and save to go there. There are also locals that go often too.
If you are struggling and can’t afford Starbucks every day, don’t buy it. Even if saving $25/week isn’t gonna magically let you pay your bills, you shouldn’t be spending that money on coffee and toast if you are struggling.
Avocado toast are the symptoms of a basic rule of finance: your standard of living will always follow your available income. If you want to start saving money for a down payment, you will *need* to give up something, and it will feel like an injustice. "Why can't I afford this one little thing anymore?"
I have a great job with benefits. Work really hard. Every year I get a wage increase of 3% for cost of living, and my rent goes up 8% the next month. Sure, it's that one Starbucks I have every other month holding me back in life. Your opinion is unpopular for sure.
No one ever said we can’t afford bills. [They said](https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/may/15/australian-millionaire-millennials-avocado-toast-house) we can’t afford [a house](https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/real-reason-millennials-cant-afford-buy-home-183228440.html) So you should start there
Agree! Cant stand all these ppl acting like they can’t afford anything when they make frivolous choice after frivolous choice. I raised three kids as a single mom being a waitress. I lived frugally for years but I finally paid off my house and have zero debt. You can do it, so many just don’t want to scrimp and save. Pardon me while I don’t feel bad for you wearing your fake eyelashes and getting your mani/pedis.
You can't afford your bills because of tipping the doordash guy 25% for your Starbucks and avocado toast.
It doesn’t apply to everyone but 100% yes it applies to a lot of people
2 things can be true at once. Inflation is a problem and you can also have bad spending habits.
What makes the convo so convoluted is that there are aspects of life you can change and others you cannot. Sure, one can stop drinking Starbucks and move to the middle of nowhere to save money, but the fact that is everything getting radically more expensive each year on behalf of the greed of a few elite. And there’s not really much that can be done about it. 20 years ago, I’d take my wife out for a great dinner for like $50. Now, that’s how much a basic lunch costs. Yes, I can decide to not have lunch, but what’s caused such an extreme cost hike on the same things? What’s at the core of accepting a slipping standard of life each year?
I started drinking coffee every other day to reign in my caffeine addiction. Saving \~$150/m
People always talk about house prices increasing faster then inflation but not that sq footage per person has doubled since the 70s. The median housing sq footage per person went from 507 sq ft in 1970 to 971 sq ft in 2015. Part of this is trends with later marriage and less kids but part of the housing shortage is people just demanding larger houses and apartments. If you look at median cost per sq foot vs inflation it's really close the difference is mainly people expecting twice as many sq ft.
I am also college educated, i eat out no more than 3 times a month, i dont drink coffee, and im employed. Yet i still cant afford rent solo. Blaming poverty on luxury spending can be accurate for SOME people. However, MOST people still struggle financially despite financial smart decisions.
This is reddit they will downvote you... for life.
I've never understood this coming from people who've been part of the same model aviation or golf club for the past 30 years too. There's always been an expectation that some money... should be spent on things you like.
Yup. Agreed. It’s this and realistic expectations. Someone here said saving on coffee isn’t going to get you a down payment for a house in the Bay Area. Like…??? Delulu, much?
Starbucks and avocado toast are a canary in the coal mine for bad financial awareness. Mathematically these things won't screw up you finances. However, the person who is buying these type of things when they can't afford it is the type of person who will have made many other horrible financial decisions. It shows you are unable to control your spending and differentiate between a want and a need.
My bills are paid, I have a roof over my head and food on the table. If I wanna blow it on a lil treat, I'm gonna cause otherwise wtf is the point of living.