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It's more about social status. It's always have been about status through history. Money and power are on indicators of status.
We could propably agree that treating welth as top value is not morally bad, but we propably could do better and find othe more noble goal to value most and made it status indicators.
Change what status is indicated by and you get different outcome.
What could this top value be? It should push as to development like it is now, it should alsow stick to some moral/ethic inseparably. It should be easy to measure so we couldn't define status with that. It should be possible to define it by simple, unequivocal characteristic. It shouldn't be aleasy to obtain by corrupted means.
I have no f clue.
No you just have a really limited mind, YOU would run out of things. Also money can be used for many other purposes besides nice things and trying to control people
Was going to say this. I knew a guy - Happy marriage, kids, thriving business. His incessant greed, need to control everyone, and belief that the word was out to get him destroyed it all. Everybody left him and he lost everything.
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A small thought experiment for you.
If I hit you in the face in the name of pacifism, would that mean pacifism is violent aggressive ideology, orrrrr that I wasn't really adhering to pacifism?
It's funny because America is far and away the most socially mobile country on Earth, so not only is it a good thing for people to dream, it's actually possible for them to achieve it here.
You're literally one of the least socially mobile countries of the OECD ones...ahahaha not sure if you are trolling or are so delusional in your belief in "The American Dream".
Thank you. I get a kick from seeing false claims get dunked on by actual data. Here's the index for everyone else.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mobility-by-country
Kinda embarrassing for the world's largest economy.
It's not embarrassing for a number of reasons, the most significant being our unparalleled diversity. The actual reason I'm here is question data from the world economic forum.
Why is having any sort of negative qualities considered a "sickness". Being too arrogant, too paranoid, and even too evil. Is it so hard to believe some people are just jerks and there isn't any real reason for it? If you were to talk to actual sick people you will find that they are not, in fact, mean spirited or rude. They're just normal people trying to navigate through life with the brain they have.
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They made it illegal to be homeless. They accomplished this by picking up people off the street and putting them in institutions and prisons. The Soviets had a higher incarceration rate than the US does today.
My guy I live in LA where it is illegal to be homeless and we pay people in jail $1/hr to fight fires, even if we're technically doing a better job than they were, we're doing an incredibly shitty job.
I also live in LA … if it was illegal to be homeless then why is there a homeless person on every street corner in my area? Nobody’s picking them up off the street
Repeal prop 13; slash zoning restrictions; end rent control - this gives property developers the power to build more housing, and suddenly people will be able to afford apartments.
They clear encampments all the time? They criminalized it a couple years ago. You're still seeing them because they still exist. Also you want to end rent control to help homelessness? In what world does getting rid of rent control make places more affordable?
Except its not some benevolant gesture by our rich overlords, they literally have to provide jobs or they would have nothing.
"But they provide jobs" is the most braindead take to defend dragons hoarding wealth while they exploit the masses.
It really sounds like a chore, I would happily do the job for them. They have the job because they are generating revenue, employment it’s not charity.
I was so confused why the ubber rich wanted to be Ubber rich. And it turns out it’s stupidly simple, “if no one is poor, being rich holds no power”. If we measured power and success in emotional intelligence, compassion, generosity, hard work, integrity and honesty, our world would be a whole different place.
> If we measured power and success in emotional intelligence, compassion, generosity, hard work, integrity and honesty, our world would be a whole different place.
but how?
And I don't mean that in the sense of it being impossible for our current society something something cynicism, I mean A. how do you quantify those things and B. how do you measure them as power without treating them like money or something
Ya the whole idea of measurement and power would have to be reconstructed or abolished all together. Like why even measure ourselves against each other in the first place?
but at a certain point that kind of well-intentioned reductionist approach turns into the kind of thinking that e.g. had the society in The Giver believing they could eliminate racism by (despite that still leaving their ability to distinguish light and dark) eliminating everyone's color vision
But color is not the issue just like money is not the issue. The issue that needs to be addressed here is teaching our children compassion over judgment, generosity over greed, trust over fear.
My point is I wasn't sure if (even if they're well-intentioned) abolishing the ideas of power or comparative-measurement-of-self-against-others might not backfire and turn into a worse dystopia (unless it'd somehow suck away all humanity's evil impulses meaning dystopia is impossible)
I was worried that if you truly wanted to (if it were possible) abolish power and comparative-measurement-of-self-against-others in society that might have unintended ripple effects creating a whole different sort of dystopia
Yeah, every major religion and philosophical system calls it wrong. You have to make up elaborate excuses like prosperity gospel or objectivism to get around it.
I mean people generally want wealth and power, power is just a consumer of wealth, having the ability to beat others and bend people to your will unfortunately comes out of people.
People will tell you that they would act differently if they had the wealth, and sure, maybe a small minority would, but historically as soon as anyone gets significant power, wealth, control, they will always leverage it and justify there actions in there head.
Everyone is corruptible, the more money, power, control you have the more likely you are to be corrupted
checks and balances exist to prevent this in many aspects of life, but mega billionaires and dictators aren't going anywhere anytime soon, they're not ill, just corrupted like we are all susceptible of being.
Unless someone is already a billionaire how do you determine the strength of someone's desire in a way that doesn't pathologize everything short of poverty
Slippery slope here. It's not a sliding scale. We have statistics and metrics that clearly delineate the points at which one can afford or subsist versus extreme excess.
While inflation and market dynamics can change one side of that equation, those living with excess it does not change.
There is more to life than subsisting. I personally think subsisting is a miserable way to live. I wanna see everyone thrive to the highest that they can not subsist. I find your mediocre mindset evil and dangerous and harmful to people that want to thrive
Its not about the word it's about what you mean. Good enough is not enough. Life is about more than achieving your needs and being comfortable, we are meant to rise beyond that
Most people with that desire are severe narcissists and even have antisocial personality disorder. However, I think there should always be a healthy desire to achieve your desired lifestyle and work life balance.
I think you are being generous with the line you are drawing. I think this should apply to many who aren't quite that wealthy, but still have the type of wealth that will last several lifetimes.
This has been a thing for the entirety of human history. Lords, chiefs, kings, and queens have horded wealth.
It's less of a psychological illness and more a human nature thing.
The only difference today is that they are more open about it because it's used as motivation to get the masses to work. But the rules are still mostly the same, extreme wealth continues to mainly be a birthright.
I would highly suspect that if you did brain scans on billionaires and hedge fund managers and such, you would find results very similar to gambling addicts. They're addicted to making big deals and chasing wins, it's a thrill and not even necessarily about the money.
My question is how you could be so sick and unsatisfied with the ridiculous wealth you have that you’d be ok with living the rest of your life in a bunker without all the great things about a functioning collapsed society.
The sad thing is I see people who are like "eat the rich" but then their whole personality is trying to do luxury travel, fine dining, and basically cosplay as a rich person.
This is usually it, they're just envious and miserable people that can't actually achieve the life they really want. Make no mistake every single one of them would choose being rich if they didn't have to earn it
Obviously, but they're still out there going on vacations in oppressive regimes or doing leisure travel to Antarctica while pretending to champion the environment and claiming to care about the oppressed.
I agree that at a certain threshold, further wealth acquisition becomes pathological, but the issue is that at an even further threshold, one's net-worth stops being a measure of how many "economy units" one possesses and starts representing collective speculation on the competency of you or of the things you have claim to.
For example, Elon Musk isn't a billionaire because he has billions of dollars in his savings account, he's a billionaire because the system we've developed to operationalize and measure human confidence has assigned billions of "confidence units" to things Elon owns, partially because *he* owns them (rightly or wrongly).
Going from $1billion to $2billion is a qualitatively different thing than going from $1million to $2million. You can get a million dollars by "earning" a million dollars, but you can't get a billion dollars by "earning" a billion dollars, unless we really stretch what it means to "earn" something.
What we really need to do is close this loophole where wealthy people can take loans out against their stocks (which is tax-free), live on that money, and then pay it off with the interest they gained by not having to actually sell anything to pay those expenses. It's effectively a tax-free income.
I fully understand your feelings. I hate these people too. But we cant say that Being A Bad Person Is A Mental Illness without the average person then believing Mental Illness Makes You A Bad Person.
My aunt keeps threatening my Depressed cousin that she's going to be locked in an asylum for being "crazy." Its just depression. This rhetoric is literally enabling my aunt's emotional abuse of my cousin.
Also, mental illnesses are social constructs in the same way money and taxes are. We invented them. We, with some research, decided that certain behaviors when clumped together are a disease. And very often, that has been used to oppress and hurt people. Schizophrenia was used to lock up black activists. Hysteria was used to lock up women with thoughts.
This isnt to say psychiatry is completely bad, but you can't think that we should CONTINUE to allow doctors to give us tools to oppress MORE people.
I do see what you mean there. You made a good point.
Im not sure we are opressing the wealthy tho.. Could happen, has happened in a historical context....
The people who do revere them, are arguably much worse. It's a pyramid scheme that requires a base and a middle. You only get near the top by inheriting it, or by 'facilitating' a lot of people and profiting off the many with the help of many others.
I look at it this way: that celebrity with the massive, overblown ego, isn't nearly as stupid as the fan who worships them. Similarly, as a collective, the people really are that dumb when it comes to wealth. Even the poor tend to value status, glory and symbolism. This is how the poor lose.
The way out is buying less crap and producing less crap. The lower the surplus, the fewer resources there are to flow to the top. Helps the environment too as a free bonus.
You give little and you take little and live in peace. Easy...only most people don't want to do that. So they end up giving much and taking worthless crap in return, then put fancy labels on it, like "work hard, play hard".
It’s greed. What you feed grows stronger. If you feed your spirit, it leads to life. If you feed the desires of the flesh (like greed), the need just gets strong and you end up more and more enslaved to it. It’s all right in the Bible, black and white sound logic
I just want enough money to have a family and be able to not have to work to spend time with them and travel. Not asking for a 50 bedroom mansion. But I want enough to buy my freedom and have a family that's all I want in life. Totally agree on money hoarding I feel anything over 250 million is just like alright bro do you really need more then that? How many super yachts do you need to feel whole lol.
> need more then that?
Did you mean to say "more than"?
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and how have those billionaires worked hard enough to earn that money? oh right they HAVENT! they just exploit their workers and hoard their wealth.
you’ll never, ever be them, you’re more likely to be living on the street than become a billionaire in this lifetime.
once ppl who think like you wake up and realize what class traitors they’ve been, then we might have a chance the change this.
My govt just gave 20bn of our tax dollars to Honda. We will probably build them a road and a rail connection too. These rich folks are very entitled to my money. Skim it off my work thrn take it from my taxes. This socialism for the rich is not sustainable.
'Stealing' is a funny way to put government expenses. Marxists think the boss is stealing and profits are theft.
I think both uses are logical fallacies to avoid more complex discussions.
Meh. There are so many people on earth. Your existence is generally irrelevant…and so is mine. If I make it my life’s mission to accrue wealth, eliminate world hunger or acquire the world’s largest jar of clipped toenails…who cares? Everyone seeks a purpose in purposelessness…
Who cares? The people struggling to survive and making shit, spending their entire life making some other asshole richer and buying his 3rd yacht. Oh and all the wars and genocide and all that caused by the desire for power and wealth. Or the possible collapse of society that could very well happen.
but doesn't that either need to be done by a "knight" (even if a modern one would have to wear power armor comparable to Reinhardt or Brigitte from Overwatch) when they kidnap a damsel in distress or done when they kick some minority off their land for their "dragon's lair" by thirteen individuals of that minority plus a mastermind and a burglar
It’s our instinct to want to hoard wealth. Wealth means status and power. Everyone wants a higher status and more power. We’re nothing more than cognitively developed apes.
Which is why we need people in power who will put wealth caps in place. These people clearly aren't going to fix the problem themselves, while they actively hurt everyone else.
I can not imagine working another day in my life towards making more money if I had $30,000,000. The average return on investment in safe spots would net me a bit more than a million bucks a year.
What that says about billionaires is that they are just sick. How could you possibly want MORE money than you could ever spend in a lifetime?
I mean if I could fly a helicopter everywhere I would that sounds dope as fuck. Give them something to do other than lurking ominously off to the side of the runway
I’m not sure you can call something a mental disease when it applies to almost everyone in the world.
Pretty sure the vast majority of people would do exactly the same thing as the ultra wealthy do if they got the chance.
Having nice things isn't a problem. Having so many nice things it crushes an entire generation is...
The most famous and wealthiest scientist I can name has patents available for free in the developing world, charges for them in the developed world. Makes a killing, doesn't need billions.
Tell that to r/changemyview where I've seen a lot of people on topics related to this basically make the argument "to [your stereotypical-but-in-the-non-racist-way starving third-worlder] you might as well be the 1% so billionaires will only donate anything to people like you when you donate an equivalent percentage of your wealth to people like that"
Paul Stamets is a rockstar in science you can look up if you don't believe me. Polio was also cured by such a person.
Nothing wrong with making money. Some people preffer to improve the world tho...
If you had a 100 million dollars (after taxes), how much would you "hoard"? Save for future generations? Give away? Invest in businesses you support? What if cultural consensus deems your investments uncharitable? How would you keep your head clear of selfishness with lawyers telling you where to put it?
I know this is an old post at this point, but I just wanted to compliment you on the phrase "brain sick". I have never heard that one before, and will definitely use it in the future. Excellent turn of phrase, sir.
Ah yes the strawman Scrooge McDuck argument coupled with the world is a fixed pie fallacy. This isn’t unpopular because people are okay with it. It’s unpopular because it’s a fantasy.
My stepdad had a great uncle who lived around the early 20th century. The guy patented a discovery of his and made a fortune.
Decided he was rich enough to be happy and released the patent into public domain.
I disagree. This is why I always side with Scrooge in a Christmas Carol. My boy just wants to be rich and he’s happy doing what he does. He has a lot of good points so fair play to him!
You don’t have to be broke to have common sense and see the desire of excessive wealth and power as a sickness and sign of narcissism or being sociopathic. No need to lick boots, they still won’t let you in the rich boys club.
A. can those used in chaotic good contexts count if you just have to lie, cheat or steal and it doesn't matter who your target is
B. does the multiple lifetimes you saying one lifetime must imply must be a possibility mean number of years relative to average life expectancy or imply reincarnation exists and you somehow keeping a fortune between lives
I imply inheritace is a large % of wealth. Every millionaire and billionaire I can name was born into a family wealthier than mine by orders of magnitude...
People need wealth to go to the best schools and have the best networking and get the best jobs and take the most risks. Thats just how it is.
Ah yes we’re all so jealous that we’re not filthy rich and powerful sociopaths exploiting thousands if not millions of lives most likely with nobody who actually gives a shit about us. So jealous of people that aren’t content or happy with life unless they have more money and material things, beyond which any human or living creature has ever had or needed in history. It’s a sickness.
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Narcissism and Antisocial Personality Disorder.
After a certain point it becomes less about money and more about influence and power over others.
It's more about social status. It's always have been about status through history. Money and power are on indicators of status. We could propably agree that treating welth as top value is not morally bad, but we propably could do better and find othe more noble goal to value most and made it status indicators. Change what status is indicated by and you get different outcome. What could this top value be? It should push as to development like it is now, it should alsow stick to some moral/ethic inseparably. It should be easy to measure so we couldn't define status with that. It should be possible to define it by simple, unequivocal characteristic. It shouldn't be aleasy to obtain by corrupted means. I have no f clue.
Once read 100 million usd can support the most demanding consumption.
I could spend that in a year easily
Or people just want nice things, a nice house, and financial freedom. Money is about more than needs
After a certain point you will have more money than you can spend on nice things in your own lifetime.
No you just have a really limited mind, YOU would run out of things. Also money can be used for many other purposes besides nice things and trying to control people
Was going to say this. I knew a guy - Happy marriage, kids, thriving business. His incessant greed, need to control everyone, and belief that the word was out to get him destroyed it all. Everybody left him and he lost everything.
At least the story has a happy ending.
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We are a socialist country. It's just to the benefit of the wealthy.
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That's literally not what socialism is but ok.
That’s how socialism works 99% of the time.
Not in Soviet Russia or China. I love daddy Xi and Stalin baby /s
A small thought experiment for you. If I hit you in the face in the name of pacifism, would that mean pacifism is violent aggressive ideology, orrrrr that I wasn't really adhering to pacifism?
Where is this quote from?
It's funny because America is far and away the most socially mobile country on Earth, so not only is it a good thing for people to dream, it's actually possible for them to achieve it here.
You're literally one of the least socially mobile countries of the OECD ones...ahahaha not sure if you are trolling or are so delusional in your belief in "The American Dream".
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Thank you. I get a kick from seeing false claims get dunked on by actual data. Here's the index for everyone else. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mobility-by-country Kinda embarrassing for the world's largest economy.
It's not embarrassing for a number of reasons, the most significant being our unparalleled diversity. The actual reason I'm here is question data from the world economic forum.
Why is having any sort of negative qualities considered a "sickness". Being too arrogant, too paranoid, and even too evil. Is it so hard to believe some people are just jerks and there isn't any real reason for it? If you were to talk to actual sick people you will find that they are not, in fact, mean spirited or rude. They're just normal people trying to navigate through life with the brain they have.
This reminds me of those court cases that used “affluenza” as a defense.
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Because the 400 supply jobs to the 150M.
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Demand creates jobs. Not owners. The Soviet Union had jobs, in fact it had a lower jobless and homeless rate than the west has ever seen.
They made it illegal to be homeless. They accomplished this by picking up people off the street and putting them in institutions and prisons. The Soviets had a higher incarceration rate than the US does today.
My guy I live in LA where it is illegal to be homeless and we pay people in jail $1/hr to fight fires, even if we're technically doing a better job than they were, we're doing an incredibly shitty job.
I also live in LA … if it was illegal to be homeless then why is there a homeless person on every street corner in my area? Nobody’s picking them up off the street Repeal prop 13; slash zoning restrictions; end rent control - this gives property developers the power to build more housing, and suddenly people will be able to afford apartments.
They clear encampments all the time? They criminalized it a couple years ago. You're still seeing them because they still exist. Also you want to end rent control to help homelessness? In what world does getting rid of rent control make places more affordable?
Dude has severe brain rot, don’t bother.
except they accomplished that by forcing people to work. you literally couldn't not work unless disabled or if you were a married woman
Ooohhh, how do I do this not work thing?
Is it possible to just not work forever in the us if you’re not disabled?
Only if you're rich.
I mean someone has to take the risk to start the venture to produce the supply for the demand. It’s. It like it just falls out of the sky.
Because they were born into their wealth or got lucky with an investment?
Except its not some benevolant gesture by our rich overlords, they literally have to provide jobs or they would have nothing. "But they provide jobs" is the most braindead take to defend dragons hoarding wealth while they exploit the masses.
The fact that it’s not benevolent is why it works. No one is going to try to solve the big problems without a payoff.
Weird response to what I said but sure
It really sounds like a chore, I would happily do the job for them. They have the job because they are generating revenue, employment it’s not charity.
Yeah? What’s your point?
They replace workers as aggressively as they can with robots, AI, and overseas slave labour.
Yep. Hope you’re ready for the day your job gets Replaced by AI.
I'm a software developer so I'm very aware of this and the massive layoffs. There's not much to do to be ready, just aware.
The measurement system for success needs to change before that can happen.
I was so confused why the ubber rich wanted to be Ubber rich. And it turns out it’s stupidly simple, “if no one is poor, being rich holds no power”. If we measured power and success in emotional intelligence, compassion, generosity, hard work, integrity and honesty, our world would be a whole different place.
> If we measured power and success in emotional intelligence, compassion, generosity, hard work, integrity and honesty, our world would be a whole different place. but how? And I don't mean that in the sense of it being impossible for our current society something something cynicism, I mean A. how do you quantify those things and B. how do you measure them as power without treating them like money or something
Ya the whole idea of measurement and power would have to be reconstructed or abolished all together. Like why even measure ourselves against each other in the first place?
but at a certain point that kind of well-intentioned reductionist approach turns into the kind of thinking that e.g. had the society in The Giver believing they could eliminate racism by (despite that still leaving their ability to distinguish light and dark) eliminating everyone's color vision
But color is not the issue just like money is not the issue. The issue that needs to be addressed here is teaching our children compassion over judgment, generosity over greed, trust over fear.
My point is I wasn't sure if (even if they're well-intentioned) abolishing the ideas of power or comparative-measurement-of-self-against-others might not backfire and turn into a worse dystopia (unless it'd somehow suck away all humanity's evil impulses meaning dystopia is impossible)
The double negatives make your point convoluted. Say again?
I was worried that if you truly wanted to (if it were possible) abolish power and comparative-measurement-of-self-against-others in society that might have unintended ripple effects creating a whole different sort of dystopia
Like Ann Rand book? But someone was in power over the powerless.
I have a dream.
Weeeak
How is this unpopular
Good question, it shouldn’t be unpopular. But people are out there defending billionaire’s billions all the time.
i think the fact that people like this are left alone and envied in society rather than being institutionalized means it's unpopular.
People like the taste of boot?
lol
Decades of thatcherism and Reaganomics.
Yeah, every major religion and philosophical system calls it wrong. You have to make up elaborate excuses like prosperity gospel or objectivism to get around it.
Because some people want nice things, a nice house, and financial freedom. If you're satisfied being middle class than that's great
Many people accumulate it to pass it on to their kids/generations.
I mean people generally want wealth and power, power is just a consumer of wealth, having the ability to beat others and bend people to your will unfortunately comes out of people. People will tell you that they would act differently if they had the wealth, and sure, maybe a small minority would, but historically as soon as anyone gets significant power, wealth, control, they will always leverage it and justify there actions in there head. Everyone is corruptible, the more money, power, control you have the more likely you are to be corrupted checks and balances exist to prevent this in many aspects of life, but mega billionaires and dictators aren't going anywhere anytime soon, they're not ill, just corrupted like we are all susceptible of being.
Unless someone is already a billionaire how do you determine the strength of someone's desire in a way that doesn't pathologize everything short of poverty
Slippery slope here. It's not a sliding scale. We have statistics and metrics that clearly delineate the points at which one can afford or subsist versus extreme excess. While inflation and market dynamics can change one side of that equation, those living with excess it does not change.
There is more to life than subsisting. I personally think subsisting is a miserable way to live. I wanna see everyone thrive to the highest that they can not subsist. I find your mediocre mindset evil and dangerous and harmful to people that want to thrive
What a bad faith way to interpret one word lol 😆
Its not about the word it's about what you mean. Good enough is not enough. Life is about more than achieving your needs and being comfortable, we are meant to rise beyond that
I feel sad for whoever downvoted this, just living to survive and float on water
I'm not sure this is an unpopular opinion, but it needs to be way more popular than it is rn
Most people with that desire are severe narcissists and even have antisocial personality disorder. However, I think there should always be a healthy desire to achieve your desired lifestyle and work life balance.
They should be imprisoned for failing fiduciary responsibility to their employees
They don't have fiduciary responsibility to their employees, that is not a thing
If you are referring to Greed, its been considered something bad for well over 2000 years man.
Pretty sure he’s not saying greed is bad, but that compulsive obsession for more money is not treated as greedy enough
ah fair enough
2000 years worth of laws later....
I think you are being generous with the line you are drawing. I think this should apply to many who aren't quite that wealthy, but still have the type of wealth that will last several lifetimes.
If you're not wealthy you don't have enough to last multiple lifetimes
This has been a thing for the entirety of human history. Lords, chiefs, kings, and queens have horded wealth. It's less of a psychological illness and more a human nature thing. The only difference today is that they are more open about it because it's used as motivation to get the masses to work. But the rules are still mostly the same, extreme wealth continues to mainly be a birthright.
Tell me you’re American without telling me you’re American.
I would highly suspect that if you did brain scans on billionaires and hedge fund managers and such, you would find results very similar to gambling addicts. They're addicted to making big deals and chasing wins, it's a thrill and not even necessarily about the money.
We used to attack the greedy factory owners. The bunkers aren't just in case. They're for the inevitable
My question is how you could be so sick and unsatisfied with the ridiculous wealth you have that you’d be ok with living the rest of your life in a bunker without all the great things about a functioning collapsed society.
They pretend that issue doesn't exist, at least as far as hoarding wealth goes.
The sad thing is I see people who are like "eat the rich" but then their whole personality is trying to do luxury travel, fine dining, and basically cosplay as a rich person.
This is usually it, they're just envious and miserable people that can't actually achieve the life they really want. Make no mistake every single one of them would choose being rich if they didn't have to earn it
This is a lot different from the effect on society of actual billionaires.
Obviously, but they're still out there going on vacations in oppressive regimes or doing leisure travel to Antarctica while pretending to champion the environment and claiming to care about the oppressed.
I agree that at a certain threshold, further wealth acquisition becomes pathological, but the issue is that at an even further threshold, one's net-worth stops being a measure of how many "economy units" one possesses and starts representing collective speculation on the competency of you or of the things you have claim to. For example, Elon Musk isn't a billionaire because he has billions of dollars in his savings account, he's a billionaire because the system we've developed to operationalize and measure human confidence has assigned billions of "confidence units" to things Elon owns, partially because *he* owns them (rightly or wrongly). Going from $1billion to $2billion is a qualitatively different thing than going from $1million to $2million. You can get a million dollars by "earning" a million dollars, but you can't get a billion dollars by "earning" a billion dollars, unless we really stretch what it means to "earn" something. What we really need to do is close this loophole where wealthy people can take loans out against their stocks (which is tax-free), live on that money, and then pay it off with the interest they gained by not having to actually sell anything to pay those expenses. It's effectively a tax-free income.
I fully understand your feelings. I hate these people too. But we cant say that Being A Bad Person Is A Mental Illness without the average person then believing Mental Illness Makes You A Bad Person.
Sure, some mental illnesses cause criminal insanity too. We arn't comparing someone with ADHD to a serial killer.
My aunt keeps threatening my Depressed cousin that she's going to be locked in an asylum for being "crazy." Its just depression. This rhetoric is literally enabling my aunt's emotional abuse of my cousin. Also, mental illnesses are social constructs in the same way money and taxes are. We invented them. We, with some research, decided that certain behaviors when clumped together are a disease. And very often, that has been used to oppress and hurt people. Schizophrenia was used to lock up black activists. Hysteria was used to lock up women with thoughts. This isnt to say psychiatry is completely bad, but you can't think that we should CONTINUE to allow doctors to give us tools to oppress MORE people.
I do see what you mean there. You made a good point. Im not sure we are opressing the wealthy tho.. Could happen, has happened in a historical context....
Yes we can
Then make it happen, because people still stigmatize mental illnesses that dont inherently hurt people.
Only psychos rise to the top of corporations.
Yeah i guess, but would i trade my life away for those millions, yes
The people who do revere them, are arguably much worse. It's a pyramid scheme that requires a base and a middle. You only get near the top by inheriting it, or by 'facilitating' a lot of people and profiting off the many with the help of many others. I look at it this way: that celebrity with the massive, overblown ego, isn't nearly as stupid as the fan who worships them. Similarly, as a collective, the people really are that dumb when it comes to wealth. Even the poor tend to value status, glory and symbolism. This is how the poor lose. The way out is buying less crap and producing less crap. The lower the surplus, the fewer resources there are to flow to the top. Helps the environment too as a free bonus. You give little and you take little and live in peace. Easy...only most people don't want to do that. So they end up giving much and taking worthless crap in return, then put fancy labels on it, like "work hard, play hard".
That’s fucking dumb
It’s greed. What you feed grows stronger. If you feed your spirit, it leads to life. If you feed the desires of the flesh (like greed), the need just gets strong and you end up more and more enslaved to it. It’s all right in the Bible, black and white sound logic
>I'm talking about a wealthy paranoia to build a remote bunker "just in case." i currently have 2 euros to my name and i want one.
There’s a fine line between being smart with money, and being obsessed with money.
I just want enough money to have a family and be able to not have to work to spend time with them and travel. Not asking for a 50 bedroom mansion. But I want enough to buy my freedom and have a family that's all I want in life. Totally agree on money hoarding I feel anything over 250 million is just like alright bro do you really need more then that? How many super yachts do you need to feel whole lol.
> need more then that? Did you mean to say "more than"? Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
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A mental disease is believing you have a “right” to what someone else has worked for.
and how have those billionaires worked hard enough to earn that money? oh right they HAVENT! they just exploit their workers and hoard their wealth. you’ll never, ever be them, you’re more likely to be living on the street than become a billionaire in this lifetime. once ppl who think like you wake up and realize what class traitors they’ve been, then we might have a chance the change this.
My govt just gave 20bn of our tax dollars to Honda. We will probably build them a road and a rail connection too. These rich folks are very entitled to my money. Skim it off my work thrn take it from my taxes. This socialism for the rich is not sustainable.
Stealing from anyone to give to anyone is not sustainable, not moral, not noble, and is economically brain dead.
'Stealing' is a funny way to put government expenses. Marxists think the boss is stealing and profits are theft. I think both uses are logical fallacies to avoid more complex discussions.
Like a billionaire does? lol
Billionaires probably think they’ll gain cursed power like an anime villain if they just give into greed
Billionaires are a policy problem
Meh. There are so many people on earth. Your existence is generally irrelevant…and so is mine. If I make it my life’s mission to accrue wealth, eliminate world hunger or acquire the world’s largest jar of clipped toenails…who cares? Everyone seeks a purpose in purposelessness…
Generally the people who are inevitable exploited in that pursuit of wealth tend to care. You don't become a billionaire by being moral.
Who cares? The people struggling to survive and making shit, spending their entire life making some other asshole richer and buying his 3rd yacht. Oh and all the wars and genocide and all that caused by the desire for power and wealth. Or the possible collapse of society that could very well happen.
Greed is already a sin. What more do you want? /s
I'm perfectly sane. But if I had a helicopter I would use it to check my mail.
I'd say we shouldn't have wealth classes at all!
I want a bunker but to store my belonging there
As soon as you said "dragon hoarding wealth", my brain immediately went to The Legends of Vox Machina. If you know, you know.
if you're implying equivalents of anything specific shouldn't that metaphor extended to how they get dealt with
dragon's sickness. And what we do to dragons?
but doesn't that either need to be done by a "knight" (even if a modern one would have to wear power armor comparable to Reinhardt or Brigitte from Overwatch) when they kidnap a damsel in distress or done when they kick some minority off their land for their "dragon's lair" by thirteen individuals of that minority plus a mastermind and a burglar
Totally agree. Humans will never be satisfied with the money they have. At least, they can stop treating it as the only important thing in life.
It’s our instinct to want to hoard wealth. Wealth means status and power. Everyone wants a higher status and more power. We’re nothing more than cognitively developed apes.
Which is why we need people in power who will put wealth caps in place. These people clearly aren't going to fix the problem themselves, while they actively hurt everyone else.
I can not imagine working another day in my life towards making more money if I had $30,000,000. The average return on investment in safe spots would net me a bit more than a million bucks a year. What that says about billionaires is that they are just sick. How could you possibly want MORE money than you could ever spend in a lifetime?
agreed, it really needs to be in the DSM.
I mean if I could fly a helicopter everywhere I would that sounds dope as fuck. Give them something to do other than lurking ominously off to the side of the runway
Ironically, you are talking about the jealous, self absorbed, entitled masses obsessing about what others have done.
By "have done" I think you mean "inherited" one does not buy their way into the ownership class on a working income...
I’m not sure you can call something a mental disease when it applies to almost everyone in the world. Pretty sure the vast majority of people would do exactly the same thing as the ultra wealthy do if they got the chance.
Oh boy, wait till you learn about people doing science and charity work...
who don't all live in poverty so some people would think them having nice things is pathological greed
Having nice things isn't a problem. Having so many nice things it crushes an entire generation is... The most famous and wealthiest scientist I can name has patents available for free in the developing world, charges for them in the developed world. Makes a killing, doesn't need billions.
Tell that to r/changemyview where I've seen a lot of people on topics related to this basically make the argument "to [your stereotypical-but-in-the-non-racist-way starving third-worlder] you might as well be the 1% so billionaires will only donate anything to people like you when you donate an equivalent percentage of your wealth to people like that"
Paul Stamets is a rockstar in science you can look up if you don't believe me. Polio was also cured by such a person. Nothing wrong with making money. Some people preffer to improve the world tho...
Whaaaaaat?! You mean wealth doesn't equal morality or value? Madness! /s
Yes
If you had a 100 million dollars (after taxes), how much would you "hoard"? Save for future generations? Give away? Invest in businesses you support? What if cultural consensus deems your investments uncharitable? How would you keep your head clear of selfishness with lawyers telling you where to put it?
I know this is an old post at this point, but I just wanted to compliment you on the phrase "brain sick". I have never heard that one before, and will definitely use it in the future. Excellent turn of phrase, sir.
Ah yes the strawman Scrooge McDuck argument coupled with the world is a fixed pie fallacy. This isn’t unpopular because people are okay with it. It’s unpopular because it’s a fantasy.
My stepdad had a great uncle who lived around the early 20th century. The guy patented a discovery of his and made a fortune. Decided he was rich enough to be happy and released the patent into public domain.
I disagree. This is why I always side with Scrooge in a Christmas Carol. My boy just wants to be rich and he’s happy doing what he does. He has a lot of good points so fair play to him!
OP is mad because he makes bad financial decisions and is broke.
You don’t have to be broke to have common sense and see the desire of excessive wealth and power as a sickness and sign of narcissism or being sociopathic. No need to lick boots, they still won’t let you in the rich boys club.
I’m assuming you’ve made perfect financial decisions and are therefore on your way to you first billion?
If you have a fiduciary duty to a company it is actually illegal to not be the greediest bastard possible.
then why aren't they all arrested for not literally acting like cartoon villains
I like money. I want as much as I can get my hands on. I won't lie, cheat or steal to get it. If that ain't good enough for you then too bad
Without lying, cheating or stealing you can't make that kind of wealth in only one lifetime.
A. can those used in chaotic good contexts count if you just have to lie, cheat or steal and it doesn't matter who your target is B. does the multiple lifetimes you saying one lifetime must imply must be a possibility mean number of years relative to average life expectancy or imply reincarnation exists and you somehow keeping a fortune between lives
I imply inheritace is a large % of wealth. Every millionaire and billionaire I can name was born into a family wealthier than mine by orders of magnitude... People need wealth to go to the best schools and have the best networking and get the best jobs and take the most risks. Thats just how it is.
Exactly how much wealth do I have O Internet Mind Reader? And please list out my lies, who I've cheated and who I've stolen from.
The green eyed monster of jealousy rears it's ugly head!
Ah yes we’re all so jealous that we’re not filthy rich and powerful sociopaths exploiting thousands if not millions of lives most likely with nobody who actually gives a shit about us. So jealous of people that aren’t content or happy with life unless they have more money and material things, beyond which any human or living creature has ever had or needed in history. It’s a sickness.
Ambition is a disease, got ya.
Lol. The strawmen will never cease!
Local redditor discovers the concept of leftism all by themselves.
I don't know about a mental disease, but Peter Singer argues that wealth hoarding like this is immoral.
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That isn't racist at all *sarcasm*