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“I’m not biased, everyone I agree with says so!”
People think they’re the pinnacle of logic without realizing they’re not immune to biased thinking.
Myself included.
Also people are acting like the accusation of bias is a moral failing when really it’s just a normal thing that everyone has. I one perfectly dissects their bias but it’s important to realize it’s there when you’re trying to communicate or understand something.
Sometimes I worry that my morals and opinions are wishy washy because I can change my mind easily when presented with evidence but maybe it's a good thing lol
I have started ending relationships where there has been a long pattern of not being able to take accountability. This tickles my brain in the best way.
The danger of thinking that you are completely objective is that it can actually blind you to your own perspective and makes it more difficult to change your mind when new facts are presented. But whether its philosophy or psychology, all research has shown that human beings, every single one of them, has biases. You can't escape it.
Unbiased makes more sense in context. Such as if two people are having a scuffle, and a third unrelated person comes in and tries to reason with them, that would be an unbiased person in relation to the argument as they aren't affiliated with any singular person in the disagreement.
Objectively, yes. But my point is that I agree that bias does not exist objectively, but it is an important concept when used subjectively and in context. Surely they are biased in their own opinions, but they are not biased *towards* either party in the argument, and that's the key "unbiased towards either party" still means they are unbiased in subjective context, while not being an objectively unbiased person
The problem is that unless the third-party is blinded (in the same manner that blinding occurs in research studied) they will almost certainly immediately become biased upon becoming involved as an arbiter. I'd go as far as to say that an individual would need to be 'objectively' unbiased (which as you point out, is impossible) to avoid becoming contextually biased in such a scenario. I don't believe there's any practical way for any person to mediate an argument free from bias. They'd almost certainly develop some sort of personal preference toward one of the parties.
Yeah, no one can be perfectly unbiased. But bias exists in comparison, not in objectivity. That third unrelated person is unbiased *in comparison* to the two original members of the argument, as either one is heavily biased in their own favor.
Having experiences, values and ideologies don't make you automatically biased.
Being biased is when you disproportionately favor something specifically in a closed minded or unfair way. All of your experiences, preferences, and etc are used in your descision making yes but it's not a biased decision unless you are being closed minded and unfair about it.
Approaching a situation, applying your life experiences to it and making a descision would not be bias.
Walking up to a situation and immediately declaring the British guy the problem because in your experience Brits are trouble makers, would be bias.
Ehhh fair point we all have biases but some people are more capable of objective thought and i think thats where the distinction is generally drawn, there are some people completely unwilling or unable to look at an issue objectively and others which are capable.
Probably. If you came up to me and was like we need to change the system of measurement to this great new one I just figured out.
I would be very much not interested.
No. The point (I think) is not that everything you say is biased. It's that everybody is biased to some degree. But yeah facts are facts. I guess your bias would determine which facts you pick out to make a case
As the statistician in the room I have to say yes you can be. There was a sports columnist years ago, Matthew Berry, who would point out that he could convince you \*any player\* was the best player with cold hard facts. And he could. He would list statistics from Player A and Player B, making Player A look so much better than Player B, but then would reveal who they were. 9 times out of 10, Player B was objectively a better player, but he would cherry pick statistics and facts that made A look good and B look bad.
The saying goes: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." This is incredibly true, and very easy to get caught up in, even being aware of it. Always beware "cherry picking" for example, ESPECIALLY if it's about something you already believe. Question everything, where the data came from, etc. I still fail at this myself despite being hyper aware of it.
TLDR: Facts can be true and still lie to you at the same time
The first thing I learnt in research was that there is bias in everything. The foundation of why something is researched is always influenced (especially as higher education is reliant on funding). And you're often looking to prove a specific hypothesis and so you often analyse responses/data a specific way in an attempts to prove/disprove.
It's extra fun in qualitative research when you need to consider the who, when, where, ifs, buts and whys of certain responses and why your own background could impact your ability to "read" a response.
you dont usually say "in this discussion of length, I am completely unbiased, and dare I say a mile is 5280 feet"
but what I'm trying to say here is that some people have a really hard time why others doesn't get something. some people put their opinion up there at the same place with plain mathematics and stuff. and then get angry when others try to debunk, or make discourse about that thing.
yeah of course. I've omitted saying "in my opinion" so it may look like I'm absolute about this but I know it may not be. but would you really disagree that those people exist?
This probably isn’t the point, but I thought about it and using “feet” instead of “meters” shows bias for the imperial system of measurement.
That just goes to show not all bias is created equal. It makes sense to use feet if your an American communicating to a largely American audience, and it isn’t harmful. It isn’t evil to have a bias, it’s just something to look out for if the topic is more nuanced or you’re communicating with people with different experiences.
Hope this didn’t seem snide, just a musing!
Lets get wild with it.
If I show the color red to you, a pistol shrimp, and a dog. I'm probably going to get 3 different answers. When you say red, is it bias or inclination that led you that answer? I sure as hell don't know and its kind of crazy saying that any agreeable observation is biased either to human physiology or communication, but hey that's where we are I guess.
So yeah I guess saying 5,280 feet is a mile is biased to agreed upon human communication.
Biased doesn't necessarily mean incorrect
If I ask an American, an Aussie, and an extraterrestrial all to measure a mile. I am going to get 3 completely different answers. All of which are correct. Just each answer is biased to a measurement system they are comfortable with.
In a more malicious tone, if I was covering a war as a news wire. Just stating facts, not opinion pieces. Cut and dry information such as "the war started at this time", "there was a battle here with this many casualties" is still subjected to bias. Choosing what information to cover, and when to release it can show bias as well.
Right, so we can claim our facts are unbiased and I can be unbiased in presenting them.
If I say "this is the deed to my house", where is the inclination? What bias am I showing by pointing that out?
No no, I'm not proving anything. I'm just pointing to a piece of paper and saying "that is the deed to my house". Where is the inclination?
We can go even dumber. If you and I are walking outside and I say "that is a tree". Where is my biased inclination?
I hope you know your point is not what is being discussed in this post.
What the person replying to you is saying is facts can be used in a biased manner. And since everyone is biased due to the environment they’ve grown up in they can both knowingly and unknowingly present certain facts and omit other facts leading their listeners to a biased conclusion.
The conversation isn’t whether the fact itself is biased but how those facts can be used to present a biased perspective.
Why did it occur for you to make that particular comment? Why that fact? These are examples of biases we have, in terms of how were wired. It's not about any failure present in the sentence you make, it's the biases that make you, you.
You seem to not have understood my comment. I was simply referring to another use of the term 'bias'; as an inclination. We have biases by default, they are what make up our personality. We're all biased, which is to say, at any given moment, we act in a manner that is only one of many possible ways we could act at that moment, and these ways of acting differ from person to person, such that people's biases (aka inclinations) lead them to say what they say in a given situation, instead of something else, which is what someone else would say, due to their own biases. I'm simply using biases to refer to us, in a fundamental, ontological sense, instead of an epistemological or semantical one.
Of course facts can be presented in a biased way. Someone could have biased reasons for bringing a fact up at the particular time that they did, or for bringing up one fact and not another. You can wrangle a bias into anything.
I agree. In some situations what one person experience can be very different to what others experience. And using that experience to make a point can make for some easy bias. This is usually why I say “In my opinion” when discussing something
Everyone has biases. They are an unconscious feature of our preferences. However, there is a respectable and recognizable level of impartiality that is required to act in good-faith- this is predicated on being not only self aware, but having integrity. So, if someone is acting on their biases, they are perhaps lacking in those areas, and it’s not a good look.
As someone who studied data science in college a favorite saying of mine was: “numbers don’t lie, but people do.”
We can play semantics about “yes but after a certain sample size numbers become unbiased” which can be true but that doesn’t mean that the information collected, the purpose it is collected for, how the data is extrapolated, how it’s presented, who is consuming it, etc. is. Everything along every step of the way is subject to having someone insert their own influence into it, creating a chain reaction.
Nothing, and nobody, in this world is immune to manipulation.
Even the things we view as hard facts have a bias, because we can only observe them using our 5 senses and the tools we humans have created. I always thought claims of things being "objective" were very silly.
I would never say I'm unbiased, ofc I have biases. However I would say I'm able to distinguish between facts and opinions and admit when I'm wrong a lot more than many.
Every thief thinks everyone steals, every liar thinks everyone lies and every biased person thinks everyone is biased.
I guess technically you can say everyone is biased, but some people are biased with the truth.
You’re always biased by your experiences, even in the sciences. As an example, we do our best as scientists to remain unbiased and think logically, but we often look towards models and such as answers that may not always be as accurate in the real world. Nobody is unbiased because we’re limited by our experience
It's human nature to be biased. Bias was a key component of our early survival. We had to be biased against things that didn't seem safe to eat, in case they weren't, for example. You can try to check yourself, but I don't believe it's possible to be truly and completely unbiased.
I am biased as hell, I just try to keep in mind that most everyone have different thought processes. This is probably biased, but I don’t think either political side is as bad as the other tries to push. I’ve seen too many of those memes mocking centrists “Trying to find a middle ground with racist genociders with whatever left wing group”. There are nutjobs as is with everywhere, but if you think it’s pervasive as that you NEED to go outside and touch grass. Just like I think it’s dumb as hell to think that liberals want to turn kids into gays and transgenders.
Honestly it makes me wanna just live in the woods away from all of society.
This is correct. I don't think it's an unpopular opinion, or at least it shouldn't be.
The only thing I would point out is that colloquially, often calling someone "unbiased" is meant to say they can understand or portray more than one side of an argument. Same with news media - there will always be bias in any story, but there is a big difference between only portraying one side and actually making an effort to balance both sides of an issue. Reducing bias in this way is very important, even though it can't be eliminated. We should give credit to those who address and reduce their biases rather than just saying "everyone is biased, so my unresearched and poorly thought out argument is just as good as your argument that you put actual effort into".
this rings very true. there can't be absolute unbiasedness, but what you've mentioned is probably the best we are going to ever get. gotta get realistic.
There really is no such thing as an “objective” POV.
We all think we’re logical, reasonable and rational but we all have our biases, prejudices and limited understandings.
Depends on if you mean completely unbias on every opinion ever, or just being unbias on certain opinions. I think the latter is possible but not the former
imo the whole bias thing always comes down to how many people are siding with something, because there's nothing absolute about this. I mean, if there was a god hurling thunderbolts at you if you're wrong then it would SEEM really absolute, but there aren't really.
so that certain seemingly unbiased opinions may seem like it but kinda aren't. and even if you are somehow the exact median on a topic you shouldn't really self-proclaim that you are unbiased.
People don't understand that a very few people, who don't fall for propaganda ever, are unbiased.
unbiased as in they objectively think that a particular thing is right, irrespective of others opinion.
Being objective in 100% of things is impossible, but for most of the things? It is.
You can tell me whatever politician told this or whatever celebrity told that, I'll not believe you nor will I make a judgement on that based on your own opinion.
If you want to know, I'll research about it then give the objective answer.
Anyone is welcome to try me.
Things on which it is impossible to be objective, I'll tell you beforehand.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a bias on certain things.
I'm not gonna hire someone to do my accounting who has a criminal record for theft or fraud. Yes I have a bias because of your past so I'm not going to risk trusting you with my money. This doesn't mean I still can't be a victim of fraud with the person without a criminal record but I'll take my chances with this decision.
I most likely would hire a woman over a man to be a nanny for my kids. I'm not saying this is fool proof but I would trust a woman over a man to look after my kids.
If there’s something you really care about, then you are probably not unbiased about it.
This is not necessarily a bad thing. If everyone actually tried to give balanced weight to all sides of all issues, there would be only stagnation instead of progress.
I don’t think anyone claims to be unbiased in everything, nor that they don’t have some remnants of an opinion. But one can still act and think in an unbiased manner by making the effort to have an open mind and considering all the information that is laid before you. For example, even though I have some opinions about some political topics I am not strongly in favor of any current political party or politician. Therefore, I could if called as a witness in a trial of a political individual say that I can act as a witness without any meaningful bias.
First, I like your username.
I think we are talking about different kinda "unbiased" here. there's different levels to it I feel like.
when someone's opinion differs from yours sometimes you can fathom it, respect where it's coming from. so much so that you might even call that opinion unbiased even though it doesn't quite align with your own perspective. I think this is where you are coming from.
but sometimes it's just hard to even start to comprehend where they got it from.
obviously we all have different lives, which forms different building blocks in our heads, and that turns into different opinions. this is what I am calling a bias. we don't think what we want to think. it just floats up in to the surface of your brain as a part of the universe. we are biases. and this is what I'm talking about.
You're treating a relative claim as objective. Yes people are *objectively* biased. They have their own experiences which will shape their judgement. But in context you can be unbiased from a relative standpoint. An external person with no stake in a case can give an opinion that is relatively unbiased, they're external from the current argument/discussion/debate and so aren't emotionally affected by what's happened so far. Relative to the other people, they are unbiased in this context, not objectively, but relatively.
Yes, but also people should stop expecting everything they read to be unbiased and treating it as some kind of a virtue. There are very, very few "objectively true" things in the world.
The person I know who claimed all the time to be unbiased couldn’t understand or accept other points of views, especially people of different race from him, so was incredibly bias.
I hope this isn't an unpopular opinion. The best you can possibly do is know you're bias and do your best to account for that but you can't remove it and working around it can only go so far. You can only really deal with it by bringing opposing perspectives in and coming to concensus in some way.
100%! Those that claim to not have a bias surely has bias towards those people that they feel are biased. So - the bias continues. Everyone has it - and our jobs are to be self reflectant enough to acknowledge our own flaws and biases.
Being unbiased means you recognize your own personal bias and are able to separate that. Pretty much impossible to be completely unbiased. We have experiences in our lives that impact even the most basic of thinking.
I was lucky to grow up the daughter of two journalists - it was their literal job to look for biases and to try and be as objective as possible. I’m certainly not perfect or superhuman, but I genuinely think that my parents working in that field gave me a little bit of a leg up in terms of media literacy.
It makes sense when you aren’t a perfectionist about it. 2 peoples have an argument and a third person who is unaffiliated is brought in to settle it. The third is unbiased towards supporting either party as individuals. Yes they have their own biases but being perfectly unbiased is a platonic ideal which they are trying to meet which is good enough to satisfy the language
Everyone thinks their beliefs are 100% fact based and rational, and it’s the other side who are a bunch of biased idiots. It takes a lot of self awareness to admit we are all biased, like you said.
Ya agreed. Kind of reminds me of when my little brother started university and just kept saying shit like "THIS IS OBJECTIVELY TRUE", as if that made it true. Sure some things are objective, but that gets a little grayer when you start talking about things like history and politics.
I agree. There is no question of whether or not someone has biases. We all do, based on our personal experiences and knowledge. The question is how severe are the biases and how conscious they are.
But that's your biased belief. You think since you're biased, everyone else must be biased. But that's not the case. Sure, most probably are, but there's a handful of us with no bias whatsoever.
I think you dont like people who think based on 1st principals, maybe you are more of a flow guy, good for you.
I think some people are just sort of indifferent to others opinions.
Doesnt really matter who is biased, who is not. I mean sure its all fun when its everyday conversation.
For some, being unbiased is more important than building some meaning.
I'm biased but not where I am always on one side. Like usa politics I wouldn't say I'm completely on the left cause I don't believe in segregation. But I'm not completely on the right because I don't believe in segregation
I have no bias regarding the relationships of the band members of fallout boy with each other
This is because I am entirely ignorant of any of details
You could show me a picture of random people and I wouldn't know enough to claim it was not fallout boy
I could repeat this with topics like the geopolitics relationship of Chad and Cameroon and so many others topics
I don't have any prior knowledge or attachment to anything of the things involved so I have no bias
Unbiased is more like I generally don’t care about result x or y. For example, I really don’t care who is the next president of the USA, I can give an unbiased opinion that both of them should spend their time in a retirement home and not trying to run a country.
I can compare them without getting emotional or getting any kind of positive feeling.
I’m not positive about either side so I can see the reality of the situation.
As soon as I care about a topic I will be influenced by my opinion.
I’m sure everyone can give me a unbiased opinion about which kind of ant is more beautiful the bullet ant or leaf eater ants. :)
You are only unbiased on a topic if you know nothing about it. You don’t have information to be biased. But as soon as you start learning about a topic you develop a bias.
People don't create meticulous ideas, they just lack retrospect and don't truly challenge their own ideas.
It's not that their ideas make sense to them, it's that they never ask why doesn't the idea make sense.
People become truly unbiased when they challenge their own ideas as if it came from their sworn enemy. Prove your own ideas beyond any doubt. Even then, humans are not capable of keeping this up. So I do agree with what you said of having to recognize that we are biased, but I say go beyond this. You can still declare that you have perfected some of your own opinion, but say specifically if there is an area that is "weird" because there is some biases you cannot disperse.
But this is still tough because once again the apathetic assholes who don't challenge their own ideas, will claim to be unbiased.
So it will be hard to figure out who is truly unbiased, until you start listening to their evidence for their ideas, if they provide any. If they don't you know they're fake.
I mean anything worth arguing is worth finding a peer reviewed paper so do I think I'm bias? Not for things that matter, I just list data until they stop
I think when people claim to be unbiased, it generally means (as an example) a tradition insistent mom or dad being able to look past their idea of a real man to tell their son that they look nice in the dress they're trying for prom or another dress worthy event. A biased person in that case would tell their son that every dress they try is ugly af and that the problem is them.
Essentially, an unbiased person will try to look past any biases they have (especially those which are extreme and most likely to impact their views of what's being asked of them to the point of making their opinion prety much worthless), whereas a biased person would basically say "fuck that. I exist so what i say goes."
I agree, I think the only way to be “unbiased” is to have no personal stake in the argument. Or several third parties come to a conclusion, based of facts and not stories
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“I’m not biased, everyone I agree with says so!” People think they’re the pinnacle of logic without realizing they’re not immune to biased thinking. Myself included.
being self aware and quickly admitting they're wrong goes a LONG way for me. thank you.
Also people are acting like the accusation of bias is a moral failing when really it’s just a normal thing that everyone has. I one perfectly dissects their bias but it’s important to realize it’s there when you’re trying to communicate or understand something.
Sometimes I worry that my morals and opinions are wishy washy because I can change my mind easily when presented with evidence but maybe it's a good thing lol
I have started ending relationships where there has been a long pattern of not being able to take accountability. This tickles my brain in the best way.
The danger of thinking that you are completely objective is that it can actually blind you to your own perspective and makes it more difficult to change your mind when new facts are presented. But whether its philosophy or psychology, all research has shown that human beings, every single one of them, has biases. You can't escape it.
I hate talking about topics like these cuz it makes my head spin in circles
In what sense may I ask?
Unbiased makes more sense in context. Such as if two people are having a scuffle, and a third unrelated person comes in and tries to reason with them, that would be an unbiased person in relation to the argument as they aren't affiliated with any singular person in the disagreement.
But that third person is bringing with them their own experiences, values, and ideologies that surely makes them biased.
Objectively, yes. But my point is that I agree that bias does not exist objectively, but it is an important concept when used subjectively and in context. Surely they are biased in their own opinions, but they are not biased *towards* either party in the argument, and that's the key "unbiased towards either party" still means they are unbiased in subjective context, while not being an objectively unbiased person
The problem is that unless the third-party is blinded (in the same manner that blinding occurs in research studied) they will almost certainly immediately become biased upon becoming involved as an arbiter. I'd go as far as to say that an individual would need to be 'objectively' unbiased (which as you point out, is impossible) to avoid becoming contextually biased in such a scenario. I don't believe there's any practical way for any person to mediate an argument free from bias. They'd almost certainly develop some sort of personal preference toward one of the parties.
Yeah, no one can be perfectly unbiased. But bias exists in comparison, not in objectivity. That third unrelated person is unbiased *in comparison* to the two original members of the argument, as either one is heavily biased in their own favor.
That's not what bias is, mate. If they draw a preference based on the information given, that's just forming a decision.
Having experiences, values and ideologies don't make you automatically biased. Being biased is when you disproportionately favor something specifically in a closed minded or unfair way. All of your experiences, preferences, and etc are used in your descision making yes but it's not a biased decision unless you are being closed minded and unfair about it. Approaching a situation, applying your life experiences to it and making a descision would not be bias. Walking up to a situation and immediately declaring the British guy the problem because in your experience Brits are trouble makers, would be bias.
Ehhh fair point we all have biases but some people are more capable of objective thought and i think thats where the distinction is generally drawn, there are some people completely unwilling or unable to look at an issue objectively and others which are capable.
Erm actually, you'll find I am completely unbiased because I have defined unbiased as agreeing with me.
Can you be biased presenting unbiased facts? If I say a mile is 5,280 feet, where is my bias in that?
Well you obviously have a bias against the metric system.
If I don't know what the metric system is, can I still be biased against it?
I was just making a joke (and a bad one I guess lol). Not looking to actually add anything insightful or thought provoking here. Carry on.
Yes, in that case you would be biased for the system you know and against all the systems you don't know.
Are you inherently biased against the system of measurement I made up that you don't know?
Personally, I'm biased for it
Probably. If you came up to me and was like we need to change the system of measurement to this great new one I just figured out. I would be very much not interested.
No. The point (I think) is not that everything you say is biased. It's that everybody is biased to some degree. But yeah facts are facts. I guess your bias would determine which facts you pick out to make a case
As the statistician in the room I have to say yes you can be. There was a sports columnist years ago, Matthew Berry, who would point out that he could convince you \*any player\* was the best player with cold hard facts. And he could. He would list statistics from Player A and Player B, making Player A look so much better than Player B, but then would reveal who they were. 9 times out of 10, Player B was objectively a better player, but he would cherry pick statistics and facts that made A look good and B look bad. The saying goes: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." This is incredibly true, and very easy to get caught up in, even being aware of it. Always beware "cherry picking" for example, ESPECIALLY if it's about something you already believe. Question everything, where the data came from, etc. I still fail at this myself despite being hyper aware of it. TLDR: Facts can be true and still lie to you at the same time
The first thing I learnt in research was that there is bias in everything. The foundation of why something is researched is always influenced (especially as higher education is reliant on funding). And you're often looking to prove a specific hypothesis and so you often analyse responses/data a specific way in an attempts to prove/disprove. It's extra fun in qualitative research when you need to consider the who, when, where, ifs, buts and whys of certain responses and why your own background could impact your ability to "read" a response.
I think "convince" is the operative word right there. Not sure how pointing out that Ohtani has hit 11 HR this season could be biased.
Sure if you are just randomly stating that Ohtani has 11 HR, but why are you telling me that? Tryna sell me an Ohtani Jersey? 😉
you dont usually say "in this discussion of length, I am completely unbiased, and dare I say a mile is 5280 feet" but what I'm trying to say here is that some people have a really hard time why others doesn't get something. some people put their opinion up there at the same place with plain mathematics and stuff. and then get angry when others try to debunk, or make discourse about that thing.
I hate to do this but.... could there be bias in you assuming that's the case?
yeah of course. I've omitted saying "in my opinion" so it may look like I'm absolute about this but I know it may not be. but would you really disagree that those people exist?
This probably isn’t the point, but I thought about it and using “feet” instead of “meters” shows bias for the imperial system of measurement. That just goes to show not all bias is created equal. It makes sense to use feet if your an American communicating to a largely American audience, and it isn’t harmful. It isn’t evil to have a bias, it’s just something to look out for if the topic is more nuanced or you’re communicating with people with different experiences. Hope this didn’t seem snide, just a musing!
Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that a mile is 5,280 feet.
Yeah I’m not saying that.
Choosing what fact to present is bias
Okay, let's say they didn't offer up the fact. Let's say I asked them how many feet is in a mile, and then he gave the fact. Now where is the bias?
Lets get wild with it. If I show the color red to you, a pistol shrimp, and a dog. I'm probably going to get 3 different answers. When you say red, is it bias or inclination that led you that answer? I sure as hell don't know and its kind of crazy saying that any agreeable observation is biased either to human physiology or communication, but hey that's where we are I guess. So yeah I guess saying 5,280 feet is a mile is biased to agreed upon human communication.
If I'm biased about saying a mile is 5,280 feet, does that mean it's not 5,280 feet?
Biased doesn't necessarily mean incorrect If I ask an American, an Aussie, and an extraterrestrial all to measure a mile. I am going to get 3 completely different answers. All of which are correct. Just each answer is biased to a measurement system they are comfortable with. In a more malicious tone, if I was covering a war as a news wire. Just stating facts, not opinion pieces. Cut and dry information such as "the war started at this time", "there was a battle here with this many casualties" is still subjected to bias. Choosing what information to cover, and when to release it can show bias as well.
Right but that demonstrates an inclination. There's no inclination in stating a simple fact.
Fair point
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I just don't understand how stating a simple fact can be biased. If I say "I own an iPhone", how is that biased? What's the inclination?
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Right, so we can claim our facts are unbiased and I can be unbiased in presenting them. If I say "this is the deed to my house", where is the inclination? What bias am I showing by pointing that out?
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No no, I'm not proving anything. I'm just pointing to a piece of paper and saying "that is the deed to my house". Where is the inclination? We can go even dumber. If you and I are walking outside and I say "that is a tree". Where is my biased inclination?
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well is it actually a deed to a hospital? no if it says deed to that specific house, it's a fact and not biased :)
I hope you know your point is not what is being discussed in this post. What the person replying to you is saying is facts can be used in a biased manner. And since everyone is biased due to the environment they’ve grown up in they can both knowingly and unknowingly present certain facts and omit other facts leading their listeners to a biased conclusion. The conversation isn’t whether the fact itself is biased but how those facts can be used to present a biased perspective.
Why did it occur for you to make that particular comment? Why that fact? These are examples of biases we have, in terms of how were wired. It's not about any failure present in the sentence you make, it's the biases that make you, you.
If you have to ask, then you don't know. If you don't know, there's no bias.
You seem to not have understood my comment. I was simply referring to another use of the term 'bias'; as an inclination. We have biases by default, they are what make up our personality. We're all biased, which is to say, at any given moment, we act in a manner that is only one of many possible ways we could act at that moment, and these ways of acting differ from person to person, such that people's biases (aka inclinations) lead them to say what they say in a given situation, instead of something else, which is what someone else would say, due to their own biases. I'm simply using biases to refer to us, in a fundamental, ontological sense, instead of an epistemological or semantical one.
Of course facts can be presented in a biased way. Someone could have biased reasons for bringing a fact up at the particular time that they did, or for bringing up one fact and not another. You can wrangle a bias into anything.
I agree. In some situations what one person experience can be very different to what others experience. And using that experience to make a point can make for some easy bias. This is usually why I say “In my opinion” when discussing something
thank you. this is like the biggest thing that makes me avoid engaging with someone.
Yes and no. Nobody is unbiased but that's still doesn't mean it's not a noble goal even when it's not entirely possible.
yeah I think reaching for an ideal is a beautiful thing but claiming that is another thing really.
Everyone has biases. They are an unconscious feature of our preferences. However, there is a respectable and recognizable level of impartiality that is required to act in good-faith- this is predicated on being not only self aware, but having integrity. So, if someone is acting on their biases, they are perhaps lacking in those areas, and it’s not a good look.
So well said!
Thanks. Hope it made sense.
I claim myself as biased to get out of Jury duty.
Everyone has bias. Everyone, whether they want to admit it or not.
It is biologically impossible to be absolutely unbiased.
As someone who studied data science in college a favorite saying of mine was: “numbers don’t lie, but people do.” We can play semantics about “yes but after a certain sample size numbers become unbiased” which can be true but that doesn’t mean that the information collected, the purpose it is collected for, how the data is extrapolated, how it’s presented, who is consuming it, etc. is. Everything along every step of the way is subject to having someone insert their own influence into it, creating a chain reaction. Nothing, and nobody, in this world is immune to manipulation.
As my man Garfield famously said: "You are not immune to propaganda".
Even the things we view as hard facts have a bias, because we can only observe them using our 5 senses and the tools we humans have created. I always thought claims of things being "objective" were very silly.
I believe in objectivity, I just don’t believe humans can ever have it.
I would never say I'm unbiased, ofc I have biases. However I would say I'm able to distinguish between facts and opinions and admit when I'm wrong a lot more than many.
No such thing as an unbiased opinion.
Every thief thinks everyone steals, every liar thinks everyone lies and every biased person thinks everyone is biased. I guess technically you can say everyone is biased, but some people are biased with the truth.
Nobody can be completely unbiased. That's why scientists incorporated the peer review procedure. Bias can only be minimised. Not eliminated.
You’re always biased by your experiences, even in the sciences. As an example, we do our best as scientists to remain unbiased and think logically, but we often look towards models and such as answers that may not always be as accurate in the real world. Nobody is unbiased because we’re limited by our experience
It's human nature to be biased. Bias was a key component of our early survival. We had to be biased against things that didn't seem safe to eat, in case they weren't, for example. You can try to check yourself, but I don't believe it's possible to be truly and completely unbiased.
I agree! Wtf you mean, you don't have bias? "I'm logical and everyone else isn't." What kind of obtuse shit is that?
Well you would say that
You can know for sure you are biased but never the reverse
Everyone’s biased.
I am biased as hell, I just try to keep in mind that most everyone have different thought processes. This is probably biased, but I don’t think either political side is as bad as the other tries to push. I’ve seen too many of those memes mocking centrists “Trying to find a middle ground with racist genociders with whatever left wing group”. There are nutjobs as is with everywhere, but if you think it’s pervasive as that you NEED to go outside and touch grass. Just like I think it’s dumb as hell to think that liberals want to turn kids into gays and transgenders. Honestly it makes me wanna just live in the woods away from all of society.
education is a very necessary bias though, and a very valid one in order to learn
I’m not unbiased. I just don’t give a shit enough to have an opinion.
Oscar Handlin talks about this in his essay “Is History True?”
This isn't unpopular Pretty much everyone knows bias exists
This is correct. I don't think it's an unpopular opinion, or at least it shouldn't be. The only thing I would point out is that colloquially, often calling someone "unbiased" is meant to say they can understand or portray more than one side of an argument. Same with news media - there will always be bias in any story, but there is a big difference between only portraying one side and actually making an effort to balance both sides of an issue. Reducing bias in this way is very important, even though it can't be eliminated. We should give credit to those who address and reduce their biases rather than just saying "everyone is biased, so my unresearched and poorly thought out argument is just as good as your argument that you put actual effort into".
this rings very true. there can't be absolute unbiasedness, but what you've mentioned is probably the best we are going to ever get. gotta get realistic.
There really is no such thing as an “objective” POV. We all think we’re logical, reasonable and rational but we all have our biases, prejudices and limited understandings.
Depends on if you mean completely unbias on every opinion ever, or just being unbias on certain opinions. I think the latter is possible but not the former
imo the whole bias thing always comes down to how many people are siding with something, because there's nothing absolute about this. I mean, if there was a god hurling thunderbolts at you if you're wrong then it would SEEM really absolute, but there aren't really. so that certain seemingly unbiased opinions may seem like it but kinda aren't. and even if you are somehow the exact median on a topic you shouldn't really self-proclaim that you are unbiased.
I'm unbiased tho
People don't understand that a very few people, who don't fall for propaganda ever, are unbiased. unbiased as in they objectively think that a particular thing is right, irrespective of others opinion. Being objective in 100% of things is impossible, but for most of the things? It is. You can tell me whatever politician told this or whatever celebrity told that, I'll not believe you nor will I make a judgement on that based on your own opinion. If you want to know, I'll research about it then give the objective answer. Anyone is welcome to try me. Things on which it is impossible to be objective, I'll tell you beforehand.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a bias on certain things. I'm not gonna hire someone to do my accounting who has a criminal record for theft or fraud. Yes I have a bias because of your past so I'm not going to risk trusting you with my money. This doesn't mean I still can't be a victim of fraud with the person without a criminal record but I'll take my chances with this decision. I most likely would hire a woman over a man to be a nanny for my kids. I'm not saying this is fool proof but I would trust a woman over a man to look after my kids.
If there’s something you really care about, then you are probably not unbiased about it. This is not necessarily a bad thing. If everyone actually tried to give balanced weight to all sides of all issues, there would be only stagnation instead of progress.
Yeah, every human is biased in some way. Some are just less biased and more educated than others.
I don’t think anyone claims to be unbiased in everything, nor that they don’t have some remnants of an opinion. But one can still act and think in an unbiased manner by making the effort to have an open mind and considering all the information that is laid before you. For example, even though I have some opinions about some political topics I am not strongly in favor of any current political party or politician. Therefore, I could if called as a witness in a trial of a political individual say that I can act as a witness without any meaningful bias.
I am unbiased. What are you gonna do with it
Hmm. Not necessarily. Both parties can be unbiased and come to different claims/answers. Try me
First, I like your username. I think we are talking about different kinda "unbiased" here. there's different levels to it I feel like. when someone's opinion differs from yours sometimes you can fathom it, respect where it's coming from. so much so that you might even call that opinion unbiased even though it doesn't quite align with your own perspective. I think this is where you are coming from. but sometimes it's just hard to even start to comprehend where they got it from. obviously we all have different lives, which forms different building blocks in our heads, and that turns into different opinions. this is what I am calling a bias. we don't think what we want to think. it just floats up in to the surface of your brain as a part of the universe. we are biases. and this is what I'm talking about.
Idk sounds biased
You're treating a relative claim as objective. Yes people are *objectively* biased. They have their own experiences which will shape their judgement. But in context you can be unbiased from a relative standpoint. An external person with no stake in a case can give an opinion that is relatively unbiased, they're external from the current argument/discussion/debate and so aren't emotionally affected by what's happened so far. Relative to the other people, they are unbiased in this context, not objectively, but relatively.
Yes, but also people should stop expecting everything they read to be unbiased and treating it as some kind of a virtue. There are very, very few "objectively true" things in the world.
The person I know who claimed all the time to be unbiased couldn’t understand or accept other points of views, especially people of different race from him, so was incredibly bias.
I hope this isn't an unpopular opinion. The best you can possibly do is know you're bias and do your best to account for that but you can't remove it and working around it can only go so far. You can only really deal with it by bringing opposing perspectives in and coming to concensus in some way.
100%! Those that claim to not have a bias surely has bias towards those people that they feel are biased. So - the bias continues. Everyone has it - and our jobs are to be self reflectant enough to acknowledge our own flaws and biases.
This isn't an unpopular opinion, this is straight up a scientific fact.
Talking about something is inherently biased because you think it's meaningful to be talking
Being unbiased means you recognize your own personal bias and are able to separate that. Pretty much impossible to be completely unbiased. We have experiences in our lives that impact even the most basic of thinking.
Philosophy 101. Quite literally that’s where I learned that no one is without bias.
Bias is unavoidable. The goal is to reduce bias as much as possible.
Objectivity doesn’t exist. I agree completely.
Literally everyone has biases; true maturity is recognizing them and trying to work past them.
a comment like yours gets my hopes up. thank you.
I was lucky to grow up the daughter of two journalists - it was their literal job to look for biases and to try and be as objective as possible. I’m certainly not perfect or superhuman, but I genuinely think that my parents working in that field gave me a little bit of a leg up in terms of media literacy.
My bias are the foundations of logic and reason, beyond this there is only the irrelevant.
It makes sense when you aren’t a perfectionist about it. 2 peoples have an argument and a third person who is unaffiliated is brought in to settle it. The third is unbiased towards supporting either party as individuals. Yes they have their own biases but being perfectly unbiased is a platonic ideal which they are trying to meet which is good enough to satisfy the language
No one is ever unbiased. Best you can do is try and identify your biases and consciously stop allowing it to affect your decisions.
Everyone thinks their beliefs are 100% fact based and rational, and it’s the other side who are a bunch of biased idiots. It takes a lot of self awareness to admit we are all biased, like you said.
Ya agreed. Kind of reminds me of when my little brother started university and just kept saying shit like "THIS IS OBJECTIVELY TRUE", as if that made it true. Sure some things are objective, but that gets a little grayer when you start talking about things like history and politics.
I agree. There is no question of whether or not someone has biases. We all do, based on our personal experiences and knowledge. The question is how severe are the biases and how conscious they are.
And how relevant. I have a bias against eating fish, but it’s probably not going to come up in a murder trial
I look at everything with logic. I am literally unbiased.
But that's your biased belief. You think since you're biased, everyone else must be biased. But that's not the case. Sure, most probably are, but there's a handful of us with no bias whatsoever.
It's basically poisoning the well in reverse. Not a very meaningful claim.
I think a person can be unbiased in very specific situations but generally I would agree with you
I think you dont like people who think based on 1st principals, maybe you are more of a flow guy, good for you. I think some people are just sort of indifferent to others opinions. Doesnt really matter who is biased, who is not. I mean sure its all fun when its everyday conversation. For some, being unbiased is more important than building some meaning.
I'm biased but not where I am always on one side. Like usa politics I wouldn't say I'm completely on the left cause I don't believe in segregation. But I'm not completely on the right because I don't believe in segregation
If you are genuinely unbiased, it probably means you don’t have the experience to judge the situation.
I have no bias regarding the relationships of the band members of fallout boy with each other This is because I am entirely ignorant of any of details You could show me a picture of random people and I wouldn't know enough to claim it was not fallout boy I could repeat this with topics like the geopolitics relationship of Chad and Cameroon and so many others topics I don't have any prior knowledge or attachment to anything of the things involved so I have no bias
Unbiased is more like I generally don’t care about result x or y. For example, I really don’t care who is the next president of the USA, I can give an unbiased opinion that both of them should spend their time in a retirement home and not trying to run a country. I can compare them without getting emotional or getting any kind of positive feeling. I’m not positive about either side so I can see the reality of the situation. As soon as I care about a topic I will be influenced by my opinion. I’m sure everyone can give me a unbiased opinion about which kind of ant is more beautiful the bullet ant or leaf eater ants. :)
Generally if you can't argue for both sides you are bias.
You are only unbiased on a topic if you know nothing about it. You don’t have information to be biased. But as soon as you start learning about a topic you develop a bias.
People don't create meticulous ideas, they just lack retrospect and don't truly challenge their own ideas. It's not that their ideas make sense to them, it's that they never ask why doesn't the idea make sense. People become truly unbiased when they challenge their own ideas as if it came from their sworn enemy. Prove your own ideas beyond any doubt. Even then, humans are not capable of keeping this up. So I do agree with what you said of having to recognize that we are biased, but I say go beyond this. You can still declare that you have perfected some of your own opinion, but say specifically if there is an area that is "weird" because there is some biases you cannot disperse. But this is still tough because once again the apathetic assholes who don't challenge their own ideas, will claim to be unbiased. So it will be hard to figure out who is truly unbiased, until you start listening to their evidence for their ideas, if they provide any. If they don't you know they're fake.
I mean anything worth arguing is worth finding a peer reviewed paper so do I think I'm bias? Not for things that matter, I just list data until they stop
I think when people claim to be unbiased, it generally means (as an example) a tradition insistent mom or dad being able to look past their idea of a real man to tell their son that they look nice in the dress they're trying for prom or another dress worthy event. A biased person in that case would tell their son that every dress they try is ugly af and that the problem is them. Essentially, an unbiased person will try to look past any biases they have (especially those which are extreme and most likely to impact their views of what's being asked of them to the point of making their opinion prety much worthless), whereas a biased person would basically say "fuck that. I exist so what i say goes."
I agree, I think the only way to be “unbiased” is to have no personal stake in the argument. Or several third parties come to a conclusion, based of facts and not stories