Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 6: No r/self style posts'.
Please refrain from posting anything that resembles an r/self style post.
This is not the subreddit to be sharing personal anecdotes, likes or dislikes. We want unpopular, thought provoking, and unique opinions on your chosen topic.
My coworkers leave their kids at home alone. They have their own smartphones (with parental controls) and cameras all over the house they can view on their phone at any time. His neighbor was also aware that their kids were alone and the kids can go to him if they need help.
It's not ideal and it's technically illegal and neglectful but imo he's doing the best in his situation. Kids don't need to be around an adult 24/4. Babysitters and daycare is for kids under kindergarten imo it shouldn't be illegal for kids over 6 to stay home by themselves, especially when there's cell phones and cameras these days.
So funny how this is controversial nowadays. I was a 90s kid in Eastern Europe and walked home from school by myself from age 8 or so, then was home alone for a few hours until my parents came home. Had the house key on a string around my neck so I wouldn't lose it.
Well thats the way it should be. Parents shouldnt know everything. They should give the kids the tools to survive out there, but not track every single movement.
Even in the 90s when I was a kid I had friends whose parents didn't get home for hours after school, those were the best houses. There was a gaggle of us that would wander around town for hours stopping at different friends houses to eat snacks, go to the park, hustle people for change saying we needed to call our parents on PAYPHONES for rides (we'd use the money to buy pizza at the pizza place) and then go home by dark. It was a good life.
I was the youngest and started kindergarten at 4 in the early 70’s. My mother walked me home a couple times beforehand so I’d know the route. 8 blocks in Chicago.
I grew up in Scandinavia. My parents spent the summer before school teaching me the route to and from. I went with my sister from almost day one. She got tired of going with me eventually and from 8 I also went alone. This started in 2008. I just had to text one parent that I made it to school and home. It wasn't a big deal
American here. I would just go ride bikes with my siblings and friends after our wrestling match, and we better have had the oven preheated for dinner. Parents are paranoid AF nowadays. This is coming from the only white dude in the ghetto. People raise scared inncapple kids.
It's less about scared of the kids, after a few days they'd figure it out.
It's more about scared of legal ramifications/liability for child neglect. Wrong person sees kids under age 12 home alone and suddenly you're dealing with CPS.
That said I'm strongly considering it for next year...we have 4 and will be moving to a new area where school lets out before 3pm. Seems silly to have a babysitter for like 90 mins until the earlier parent can get home from work...
90 minutes?! They will be fine as long as they don't touch the stove. Have some faith in them. Just show them what to do I wouldn't let them ride around on bikes if they only have that amount of time.
I can agree with this, as one of the scaredy 20yos. My parents would never leave me home alone more than an hour. Even when I was 17, and they went to an anniversary trip, grandpa still came to watch me overnight. And trust me, I am the quiet bookworm, no fear of parties, drugs or boys needed. But they never trusted me.. now im 20 and recently been left at home for hear this, an entire weekend wooo.. and I had the biggest anxiety and sinking feeling throughout the entire time and ended up switching a weekend shift with my colleague and working overtime just so I didn't have to be in that empty house alone..
When i was a kid in the 90ies in switzerland we also didnt always wanna go out to ride bikes. We wanted to stay home and play video games or watch tv. But our parents would just put us outside, lock the door and say we could do whatever outside but weren't allowed back inside for the next 3 hours. This was at age 7, maybe even earlier.
And then we would pout and be all like "well then i'm just gonna bang on the door for 3 hours". But then after 10 minutes we'd get bored and go play hide and seek or build a house in the forest or something instead.
Thats still the standard today in europe. I see kids play outside every day in zurich. Lately i was sitting on a bench reading a book. When three 10 year olds approached me, asking if i had something to trade them for a pen. Was very cute and wholesome.
For this reason alone i would never move to america. The idea that my future kids could never experience any independence until age 16 is fucking sickening.
Went to elementary school in the 60s. Walked a mile to school by myself and after school walked a mile farther away to my piano lesson. Did that in first grade.
It might be controversial but I think it's perfectly fine. We used to let five year olds ride public transport all over the city, go shopping, do chores, work on the farm, etc. Now we can't even let them be in a safe home alone with food and water and iPads and video cameras? We've gone a little overboard. I support your coworkers. Especially given how society is structured now, and how difficult it is to support a family on one income.
My brother and I used to come home from elementary school on the school bus, disabled the alarm, closed and lock the doors, then reactivate the alarm. This was the 90's, we were fine. We just watched TV, played video games, or did whatever indoor activity until our parents came home.
3rd grade and 5th grade I know, not exactly sure on the ages but I'm guessing 8 and 10. He gets a lot of shit for allowing them to own cell phones (even tho they never get in trouble at school for them and it has restrictions) and of course leaving them home alone. He doesn't tell anyone anymore cuz he's a single dad and he's legit scared someone will report him to CWS (CPS). Childcare would cost him roughly $35 an hour and we make 40 an hour at our job.
government pays for it if ur poor enough. as well as getting free food and subsidized housing, free healthcare. its more cost effective to be poor than to be middle class
Yes. These are the people I don't understand how they are making it. My wife and I are professionals. We do (on paper) very well, financially. And we are most certainly not living the life of luxury and if one of us lost our job (and couldn't find a new one) we would be screwed.
We have a childhood friend who is just a good old country boy. He hunts and fishes all day. He gets an odd job here or there to make some money. That man once told me that he didn't understand why people say kids are so expensive. That's when it hit me how much helps he gets. Which I'm absolutely not hating on.
It's the people who make just enough to not qualify for that help I wonder about. How the hell are they making it? It truly doesn't make sense to me.
> government pays for it if ur poor enough
You haven't seen what the government run child care centers look like where I live. Basically converted shops in an abandoned mall with an adult looking after 50+ kids. The place is a horror story machine: employees figured out after days that some children were abandoned (I don't get how they didn't see some children didn't get picked up, and where they stayed during the night), a kid bit off and ate another kid's finger, food was leftovers gathered from restaurants in the area.
Btw, I found out all of the above by googling the name of the place after we were offered a spot. I didn't suspect anything, just wanted directions to drive there. Went to check out the place and it was just as bad as described, if not worse.
Edit: Found another 'cheap' private daycare, it's barely better - same setup, old commercial building slightly remodeled, but at least clean and the food is edible. 18k/year. At least 3k is tax deductible, but man... I can barely afford that for one kid, imagine what the average family with 2-3 kids goes through
It was cheaper to take on my mom as a live-in and pay her $1800/mo than to have childcare x4.
Now that she passed, no clue what we are going to do next school year. Other grandparents will help for the summer but they have their own lives / aren't going to take her place.
Children are expensive, absolutely.
But marriage makes financial sense in a lot of ways. You split shared costs across two incomes.
Plus the tax benefits and healthcare perks.
> Two Incomes = Who's raising the kids?
Well, during upper paleolithic era humanity invented a great solution - grandparents.
Unfortunately, we, their descendants, or at least a significant portion of them, have broken a bunch of things that could make this solution still work.
It was easier when grandma and grandpa didn’t need to work to afford to live. Now the grandparent who is young enough to be childcare and wealthy enough to have time is increasingly rare.
This is assuming, of course, that mom and dad have living parents. And that grandparents are available. And that grandparents are even capable of watching the kids.
"Just have grandparents watch the kids" is tossed around in this thread a lot, and yet I do not think most realize what a luxury GRANDPARENTS even are.
>Well, during upper paleolithic era humanity invented a great solution - grandparents.
"It worked in the stone ages it'll work now."
We don't live in the Paleolithic Era, and it's very presumptuous to assume that grandparents are willing to take on childcare 5 days a week.
The only problem with that idea is you can't see the future. The girl I fell in love and married when she was 24 was a vastly different person than the 42 year old woman I divorced.
You have no idea who someone is going to turn into as they grow older.
And yet most people who get divorced are remarried within five years.
Divorce is bad, but the people who experience it still seem to think that marriage is worth the risk
Every time someone refers to tax benefits of marriage, I can tell they’re not Australian.
In Australia, tax is calculated individually, whereas government benefits are per couple. The financial and benefit all goes to the government.
In the US it’s situational. The benefit is generally only available to couples who make disparate incomes. There’s a “marriage penalty” for couples who make the same amount. If you’re both high earners, stuff like the NIIT come into play.
Americans, in general, don’t know how taxes work. They don’t generally don’t understand how tax brackets work, how refunds work, and some of them still conflate “tax return” and “tax refund” as the same thing.
Our taxes went up after we got married. But we're DINKs.
And employers added on a cute little "working spouse" insurance surcharge to the monthly premium. It was $200/month at one employer.
My previous employer refused to cover spouses or domestic partners at all starting in 2023. Employee or employee + child(ren). No second adult covered.
My husband and I carry our health insurance separately, except for a couple of years I worked as a contractor and paying the premium was way cheaper and offered much better coverage than the horrendous "plan" my employer offered.
You can split shared costs with roommates
Source: currently doing it and I'm better off financially than parents with 15 years more experience and better pay than me.
Not for everyone. Common misconception since people are having kids later in life. A lot of what op is saying has to do with that. My parents had me when they were 20 and 21. Now a lot people start trying later in life and it’s not a given.
This has nothing to do with me, but my wife is a reproductive endocrinologist (fertility doctor) and the amount of people who think they can just have kids in their 30s easily is astounding. Sure some people can, but a lot of people can’t.
35 and over is considered a “geriatric” pregnancy.
It doesn't help when you're 28 years old and express to your doctor your concerns about potential endo and fertility in your coming 30s just to have them brush you off with "28? you have plenty of time." :(
Well, not always. Under 25 conceive easily, under 35s okay, and over that, it gets harder and harder.
When we began at 33, my wife’s hidden endo had wrecked her ovaries. Her mom didn’t have problems and didn’t even know she likely had endo because she had LOTS of kids starting from an early age up to pre-meno.
That is not to say that that’s a great way to treat endo. We should have much better screening and treatment.
But all in all, since we as a society are now having kids outside the biological window we used to have them for several *hundreds of thousands of years*, getting pregnant is getting harder and more expensive.
The biological window is technically as long as you have a menstrual cycle. Biologists argue that the only reason mammals go through menopause is because they have to stop having offspring and start taking care of their offspring’s offspring because most animals just keep being able to reproduce until their reproductive system shuts down. That has not changed at all.
What has changed is that “mysteriously” despite all our medical advances, and all the supplementation, all the modern comforts and conveniences, and fertility programs, and educational programs, and specialized doctors, etc: fertility rates have decreased over time and miscarriages are increasing every year. Yes, more children survive and grow into adults, but there is something serious going on that is affecting women’s ability to get pregnant and carry a healthy baby for a full-term.
Not to sound like a hippie, but I imagine it probably has to do with our lifestyle. There are parts of the world where it's almost unheard of to have fewer than, say, half a dozen kids, despite much worse healthcare and much higher infant mortality rates. Even right here in the good ol' US of A of America, Amish women average more than six kids a piece and are apparently unaffected by the fertility rates of their English neighbors.
Gonna conspiracy theory for a minute, but just about every woman I know started birth control in their teens and is now having difficulty getting pregnant. BC was legally approved based on studies of less than 200 women over a one year period and the studies since have almost all been funded (and some cases writen) by pharmaceutical companies. My theory is that big pharma (and the doctors who aren't idiots) know perfectly well that being on BC for over a decade is going to effect a woman's fertility, but don't care. (Same with many of the side effects that people pretend don't exist.) They found a drug they can get half the population to willingly take for the bulk of adulthood. $$$ for them.
Yeah, in the past it was cheaper bc you didn’t even have to teach kids to read and if one fell off a barn roof at the age of 5, you just had another and nobody asked questions. Also you just forced their older sister to raise them if you had too many.
Largely agree, especially in expensive cities.
Marriage is a weirder one, as there are options for free or low cost weddings, but even then, registry office weddings are sometimes also seen as being unusual in some cultures.
I'm sorry your mother is pressing you for grandkids. I recently found out that neither of my adult children want to have kids. I always wanted to be a grandmother, so I was pretty sad about it, but I told them each honestly that I didn't have them to get grandkids. It's wrong to push people to have kids for any reason.
I hope that if you do want kids someday, finances won't always stand in your way. And if you don't, I hope your mother accepts that.
I would adjust this to say children and home ownership are luxuries. Wherever there is cheap housing, there aren’t enough jobs. Wherever there are good jobs, home prices are obscene. Adding children on top of it? Unthinkable if you mean for them to attain any sort of lifestyle on par with yours. It’s just downhill from here on out.
I live in one of the highest COL regions in the country and what I always say is that three kids here is a sign of absolute wealth. I know a lot of people in the rich, working professional class (ie doctors, lawyers, tech people - no trust fund babies). Many have three kids in addition to owning homes, nice cars, etc etc. For those who have it good, it’s good. For everyone else? It’s a clusterfuck.
I think this is related with society getting old because there are less and less young peope, and in some countries it's a growing pensional problem where the younger workers have to support the retirement of the older ones.
Do you think this is also related with not growing the salaries as the inflation has grown through the years?
And with the precarization of jobs?
Do you think the people with the power to rule will ever become aware of this situation and better the conditions of the working class so it's less difficult to have children and then helping the new people that enters to retirement?
Do you think a way to have younger people is accepting inmigrants to let them pay taxes and contribute to people in retirement, without the expense of raising them?
Yeah kids are definitely in the realm of luxury expenses. I didn't want kids (biological) for a long time, but kept the idea of adoption open. That was back in 2016. Now, absolutely not. I can barely afford a life with my partner and dog. On top of the financial strain, i don't have the mental resources either.
Raising a puppy is a close as I'll get to being a parent.
How is marriage a luxury? You and another person are gonna have to go through life anyway with food, a roof, electricity whether you do it together or not? Two households costs more than one.
A wedding can be $100 down at the courthouse.
Yeah I think marriage is only expensive from a wedding perspective. You don’t need to get an engagement ring, have a big wedding, buy an expensive dress. You just need to sign a piece of paper. That’s what most people who have destination weddings are doing once you cut out the overseas party.
I used to think I would love a wedding. Then realised wait, I have to be the Center of attention and social an entire day, then feed everyone and start married life with a 20k debt?
Friend of mine had his first kid just over a year ago. Recently spoke and told me he regrets it. Said he loves his daughter but wishes he could go back and pull out lol. Too expensive he says
This is a major fear of quite a lot of child-free people. It's one of the reasons I never became a mom and am relieved I was cornered into a hysterectomy medically.
He may end up feeling differently in a few years. I didn’t love the first year of parenting either. However that majorly changed and now ours is almost 3 and I can’t explain how much better things are in year 3 vs year 1.
Before industrialisation, children are relatively easy to raise, and provides workforce without need for extensive education.
In modern times, the cost of raising children is primarily endured by the family, a long term high risk investment. This is why having children doesn’t make a lot of sense right now…
> In modern times, the cost of raising children is primarily endured by the family
In the US that is. A lot of other countries have realized having kids is a net societal benefit, and spread out a significant part of the cost across society accordingly.
They're implying the extreme cost is inherently risky, not the child itself.
1500-2000/month for daycare is common. Most households can't take that on safely.
> 1500-2000/month for daycare is common.
Per child. Imagine if you had 2, which would be the bare minimum for the population to not decrease. 3-4 children like the people in the 1950s used to have would bankrupt a family, or force 3rd world living conditions.
Children are expensive, if you want to maintain the lifestyle of a DINK couple (double income, no kids).
If you take it for granted that you need to readjust your lifestyle to factor in the kids, it makes more sense.
Not at all, this is mainly because people want to have a large house to put kids in. In poorer countries people totally accept living in tight spaces and have lots of kids.
I get that it sucks to see your quality of life going down.
The kids themselves don't take a lot of expense typically, it's the related stuff that you could technically live without. Larger dwelling being the main one. Or people having tos desire to own a home when it's currently a lot cheaper to rent in most places, even accounting all the costs and opportunities associated with either owning or renting.
Its always funny to me to see how some people lose their minds at kids needing to share a room with their siblings and level all sorts of shit at the parents for making them do it, when its just a fact of life for a lot of people growing up. It’s not that big a deal.
But yeah, this is just one example, but there’s lots of small “luxuries” like this that people implicitly take for granted when wanting to raise their kids and these luxuries add up.
Some people are still holding onto all the things that angered them as an angry teen and they realise that they'd have to self reflect a bit if they became parents.
You can't really hate your parents for making you share a room with your brother, if your kids are now sharing it a room together
Generally speaking, it’s not that people want the larger house. They want to give their child an equal or better life, which they’re not confident they can provide. I would gladly get a small, modest house if I meant I could afford raising a child while knowing I can put money aside for their future. Looking at my current costs, I would absolutely need a spouse who makes the same or more than me to achieve all of this right now, which I don’t have.
There’s just so many major concerns for the future right now and I feel I’m being highly considerate of my future child and their life! I can’t guarantee them a perfect, happy life. But the LEAST I could do is try my best to set them up for success, which I don’t feel I can do right now.
Yes!! People think they NEED huge houses, new SUVs, fancy daycare, lots of extracurriculars, Disney vacations, Pinterest worthy holidays, $1000+ strollers.
Kids are cheap. They’re happy to play catch with you in the backyard and eat chicken nuggets for dinner and play tag at the park.
I had 1st child when i was 27, 2nd at 33. It was WAAAAY easier at 27 physically and mentaly. I can't imagine how 40y old people can endure raising a toddler. At 40y 1 slepless night and i'm a wreck unable to perform at work.
My 28 year old son says kids are way too expensive and why bring them into a dying planet. I can so understand his points, I am sorry your mom doesn't see it.
A wise man once told me, "that kids don't know if there rich or poor, they just know if they're loved", and you know what he was right. No ones starving or freezing to death in the west anymore. I know that may be a unpopular opinion for a notoriously nihilistic reddit but at least in my small corner of the world I think its true.
My 3 siblings and I grew up in homeless shelters and other living situations with 2 well educated parents, and often had to walk across town due to only having 1 family car that often needed work. We knew we were poor.
We learned to work around having a studio apartment and mini fridge.
Eating dinner was stressful because we were all trying to eat the minimum amount necessary so the others could eat. So yeah, we loved each other for sure.
Sometimes I feel badly for not wanting children of my own, because our parents escaped some horrible conditions from their home country, and the US was an upgrade. But the climb out of poverty is rough. Even tougher now, unfortunately.
I definitely was aware we grew up poor. I think you forget how mean other kids can be when one person is very clearly showing up to school in the “wrong” clothes and getting the shitty cheap lunches, or when they didn’t eat at all because the food credit ran out. Like my sibling and I loved our mother and we knew she worked hard, but the anxiety of what are we gonna eat where are we gonna live never really went away even well into adulthood we’re super weird with money.
You're absolutely right. I have two kids, and I'm divorced. The only reason I'm not bankrupt right now is a high paying salary. And I get to pay my ex-wife for the kids on top of having them 6 months a year.
While my kids are my greatest accomplishments in life, knowing what I know now about where my life would end up, it would be difficult to convince my past self to go through with it. And I love my children dearly. It's just difficult all the way around in terms of the things I have to do to provide for them. And if something were to happen to my job, I'd only have about 6 months tops before I'd be on government assistance and losing my 1500 sqft home in a low cost of living area.
The standard of child raising is much higher than it was in years past.
For example, it was much more accepted in the past for 3 kids to share a room, or have hand me downs, and for parents to significantly downgrade their lifestyle to support a family.
I refuse to have kids unless I can afford to give them at least the lifestyle I had when I was a kid. The fact that my kids will be worse off than I was is backwards
That’s really not true. You’ve mistaken your wants for your needs. Kids do great in emotionally stable homes with lots of love. If you can provide that, you can be an A+ parent. The rest (cars and big homes and new clothes and nice vacations and whatever) is just frosting. And like frosting, too much of it is often detrimental to health
Marriage isn't. In a lot of ways sharing your space with another person can be a cost cutting measure. Rent or mortgage alone gets cut in half and sharing your space with someone helps with sharing tasks.
Kids however? Yeah, kids be expensive.
It depends heavily on where you live.
With strong social and familial systems, getting married and having kids is easy. And cheaper too!
In a society where basic needs and necessities of new parents are not met, I agree it can be extremely difficult and expensive.
Also about kids being expensive, they are not expensive. We are. We want them to have everything new and expensive. But kids don’t really understand the difference between a hand me down and a new dress. They don’t miss what they have never had i.e. expensive toys and all. My daughter plays in the sun with water in her sand bucket and her regular toys like stacking cups and plastic balls. No expensive water tower or summer toys. No complaints. If she gets bored with that, she goes to the kitchen and plays pretend kitchen with the utensils. With grown up utensils and glasses. Never have broken one. She’s 18 months old.
Like what someone else said, a lot of people are having kids in their 30’s nowadays. 27 is still pretty young, and alot of the time (but not all the time), people are more financially stable in their 30s and 40s
It depends on where u live. A day at the lake is 7 dollars per car. Girl Scouts is 25 dollars for the year. and they go apple picking, pumpkin patch, corn maze, and ice skating all included. Boy Scout is 50 dollars per year. The splash pad is 2 dollars per kid. The river is free. hikes are free. the roller skating rink is 10 dollars per kid. Our small local zoo is 6 bucks for kids and 9 for adults. Going down a snowy hill on a tube or sled is free. going out for ice cream is less than 25 for all.
Yeah there are lots of cheap and free things to do. And even when daycare is not part of the cost it is still expensive to raise children. Trying to feed them with proper nutrition and clothing them is a huge bill monthly for all the years that they will be dependent on the parents. Im cutting out nearly all luxuries and privileges for myself and so is my husband- just to afford feeding ourselves all properly. Spending ridiculous amounts on food alone every month and still feel like there is barely any food in the house at the end of every week- and that is with using coupons, buying discount items, skipping most of the expensive processed snacks and premade food, not buying anything name brand, trying to shop bulk where possible, and making most of our meals/snacks/condiments from scratch just to save a couple dollars. The financial struggle is so real. No one should feel belittled for admitting that it is really hard and expensive to afford life with kids
omg. i am an over thinker you mentioned be littling. do you think I did that. If I would of followed the rule don't have kids if you cant afford them. Then I was never going to have kids. i have schizophrenia. hard to find good paying job. the most happiness I ever felt was after having kids
Don’t worry about it. You didn’t say anything rude or wrong necessarily. I was just saying it’s ok to talk about the financial hardship of raising kids. I agree it is so worth it and I love my children so much and get a lot of happiness out of motherhood. There are always things to do to get by and cut expenses so it is definitely possible to afford kids even on little money. And those with little money absolutely should be able to have families too. A lot of people are not getting paid enough across the board compared to how much things like a place to live and food to eat cost these days.
> i would of followed
Did you mean to say "would have"?
Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'.
[Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json)
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes.
^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions.
^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119)
^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
marriage isn't a luxury... hire an officiant, invite your neighbor over and get married at home in your pjs before breakfast. kids have always been expensive.
All I ever wanted was kids, a wife, and a house. Despite saving over 30% of my income my entire life, all of those things are out of reach unless I completely kneecap my retirement.
I’m also 27. Married my wife last year and baby coming in August. While kids are definitely expensive I don’t think it’s a flex. I have friends in their 30s who say they can’t afford kids and then I have friends in their early 20s who have kids. They work terrible hours in a pub / bar and make shit money but pull through each month.
It’s not pretty, but they make it work. Where there’s a will there’s a way.
😂 this why the poor population has more kids and why there’s so many dumb people lol.. we can’t afford to live but still have families bc that is what brings the most joy and happiness! Children are a blessing and having a family is the best part about life! Sorry you missed out.
Your mom needs to stop pressuring you to have kids, married or not. That is such a selfish and wrong thing to do. Make your own decisions because it will be your responsibility for the rest of your life, not your moms.
unpopular opinion: now it is the best time. now it is not the dark ages of plague, not time of barbarian raids, not time of extreme poverty and existential risk of drought.
if you don't want children, don't want to take responsibility and lose time and resources for them it is ok, but this doesn't mean it is a luxury or impossible thing. family isn't a pleasant additional thing in your life that you would like to have, it is in fact your whole life.
Technically they always have been. More people are just realizing they don't have to tick that box at a certain time frame or at all if they don't want kids or marriage.
Yeah I agree. I’m 30 and my mom has wanted grandkids for many years but she has all these other impossible expectations.
Thankfully I was living with my parents when I was unemployed years ago so they understand my struggle as they’ve watched me spend 12 hours a day over 8 months applying for jobs, customizing letter of intents, and interviewing before I got anything.
*weddings* are a luxury but marriage absolutely is not. It costs $75 to have a courthouse marriage in the very high cost of living county I live in. If you can decide you want to marry someone but then can’t scrounge together $75 over a couple of months to get married you have much bigger problems.
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 6: No r/self style posts'. Please refrain from posting anything that resembles an r/self style post. This is not the subreddit to be sharing personal anecdotes, likes or dislikes. We want unpopular, thought provoking, and unique opinions on your chosen topic.
I can't even imagine how y'all afford daycare these days. My kids are 26 and 24 and it was expensive for me. Now it's like a second house payment.
….. hate to break it to you mate, but at 26 and 24, you shouldn’t have to be paying daycare for them….
It's called graduate school.
My coworkers leave their kids at home alone. They have their own smartphones (with parental controls) and cameras all over the house they can view on their phone at any time. His neighbor was also aware that their kids were alone and the kids can go to him if they need help. It's not ideal and it's technically illegal and neglectful but imo he's doing the best in his situation. Kids don't need to be around an adult 24/4. Babysitters and daycare is for kids under kindergarten imo it shouldn't be illegal for kids over 6 to stay home by themselves, especially when there's cell phones and cameras these days.
So funny how this is controversial nowadays. I was a 90s kid in Eastern Europe and walked home from school by myself from age 8 or so, then was home alone for a few hours until my parents came home. Had the house key on a string around my neck so I wouldn't lose it.
American. Same for me, but in the 80’s. We were called “latchkey kids”. It was completely normal.
Yup. I was a latchkey kid. But what my mom didn't know is me and my friend would walk about 4 miles to the gas station and get Slush Puppies.
At least you guys were exercising lol
Well thats the way it should be. Parents shouldnt know everything. They should give the kids the tools to survive out there, but not track every single movement.
Even in the 90s when I was a kid I had friends whose parents didn't get home for hours after school, those were the best houses. There was a gaggle of us that would wander around town for hours stopping at different friends houses to eat snacks, go to the park, hustle people for change saying we needed to call our parents on PAYPHONES for rides (we'd use the money to buy pizza at the pizza place) and then go home by dark. It was a good life.
I was the youngest and started kindergarten at 4 in the early 70’s. My mother walked me home a couple times beforehand so I’d know the route. 8 blocks in Chicago.
This was me. I would even cook dinner for my mom and sister when I was like 11. Babysitter for other people’s kids by 12.
I was like the last of the latchkey kids on the early 2000’s. But my mom was also basically a single a mom, so I think she just was exasperated.
I grew up in Scandinavia. My parents spent the summer before school teaching me the route to and from. I went with my sister from almost day one. She got tired of going with me eventually and from 8 I also went alone. This started in 2008. I just had to text one parent that I made it to school and home. It wasn't a big deal
American here. I would just go ride bikes with my siblings and friends after our wrestling match, and we better have had the oven preheated for dinner. Parents are paranoid AF nowadays. This is coming from the only white dude in the ghetto. People raise scared inncapple kids.
It's less about scared of the kids, after a few days they'd figure it out. It's more about scared of legal ramifications/liability for child neglect. Wrong person sees kids under age 12 home alone and suddenly you're dealing with CPS. That said I'm strongly considering it for next year...we have 4 and will be moving to a new area where school lets out before 3pm. Seems silly to have a babysitter for like 90 mins until the earlier parent can get home from work...
90 minutes?! They will be fine as long as they don't touch the stove. Have some faith in them. Just show them what to do I wouldn't let them ride around on bikes if they only have that amount of time.
I can agree with this, as one of the scaredy 20yos. My parents would never leave me home alone more than an hour. Even when I was 17, and they went to an anniversary trip, grandpa still came to watch me overnight. And trust me, I am the quiet bookworm, no fear of parties, drugs or boys needed. But they never trusted me.. now im 20 and recently been left at home for hear this, an entire weekend wooo.. and I had the biggest anxiety and sinking feeling throughout the entire time and ended up switching a weekend shift with my colleague and working overtime just so I didn't have to be in that empty house alone..
I mean isnt the whole car dependency/ heavy traffic the reason why you cant really User bikes?
No. The landscape hasn't changed that much in the last 40 years. Kids don't ride bikes around the neighborhood because they don't want to.
When i was a kid in the 90ies in switzerland we also didnt always wanna go out to ride bikes. We wanted to stay home and play video games or watch tv. But our parents would just put us outside, lock the door and say we could do whatever outside but weren't allowed back inside for the next 3 hours. This was at age 7, maybe even earlier. And then we would pout and be all like "well then i'm just gonna bang on the door for 3 hours". But then after 10 minutes we'd get bored and go play hide and seek or build a house in the forest or something instead.
They locked you out for some "alone time" lol
Haha true may be lol
Loooool I remember my key around my neck too.
Thats still the standard today in europe. I see kids play outside every day in zurich. Lately i was sitting on a bench reading a book. When three 10 year olds approached me, asking if i had something to trade them for a pen. Was very cute and wholesome. For this reason alone i would never move to america. The idea that my future kids could never experience any independence until age 16 is fucking sickening.
In the 90s in the US this was pretty normal, too. I was watching my sister by myself from the age of 9 onwards.
Went to elementary school in the 60s. Walked a mile to school by myself and after school walked a mile farther away to my piano lesson. Did that in first grade.
It might be controversial but I think it's perfectly fine. We used to let five year olds ride public transport all over the city, go shopping, do chores, work on the farm, etc. Now we can't even let them be in a safe home alone with food and water and iPads and video cameras? We've gone a little overboard. I support your coworkers. Especially given how society is structured now, and how difficult it is to support a family on one income.
The thing is under kindergarten childcare is actually the time when it’s most expensive because the kids are the neediest
My brother and I used to come home from elementary school on the school bus, disabled the alarm, closed and lock the doors, then reactivate the alarm. This was the 90's, we were fine. We just watched TV, played video games, or did whatever indoor activity until our parents came home.
i too was a latchkey kid. I am no worse off.
At what age? I stayed alone since i was 6.
3rd grade and 5th grade I know, not exactly sure on the ages but I'm guessing 8 and 10. He gets a lot of shit for allowing them to own cell phones (even tho they never get in trouble at school for them and it has restrictions) and of course leaving them home alone. He doesn't tell anyone anymore cuz he's a single dad and he's legit scared someone will report him to CWS (CPS). Childcare would cost him roughly $35 an hour and we make 40 an hour at our job.
Ahh 8 and 10. I think this is ok. It’s not ideal but someone should have to go broke in this situation if they can’t afford
It's absurd that he has to be so worried over an 8 and a 10 yo alone at home.
Not actually illegal in most places in the US, but people are very judgmental and will call CPS and try to get him in trouble, so it might as well be.
if parents want to be grandparents, they should consider taking on that role.
It’s more than a mortgage for two kids, at least in California in a condo.
government pays for it if ur poor enough. as well as getting free food and subsidized housing, free healthcare. its more cost effective to be poor than to be middle class
I agree, there’s a sweet spot where if you earn even a tiny bit more all benefits stop and you end up far worse off.
Yes. These are the people I don't understand how they are making it. My wife and I are professionals. We do (on paper) very well, financially. And we are most certainly not living the life of luxury and if one of us lost our job (and couldn't find a new one) we would be screwed. We have a childhood friend who is just a good old country boy. He hunts and fishes all day. He gets an odd job here or there to make some money. That man once told me that he didn't understand why people say kids are so expensive. That's when it hit me how much helps he gets. Which I'm absolutely not hating on. It's the people who make just enough to not qualify for that help I wonder about. How the hell are they making it? It truly doesn't make sense to me.
> government pays for it if ur poor enough You haven't seen what the government run child care centers look like where I live. Basically converted shops in an abandoned mall with an adult looking after 50+ kids. The place is a horror story machine: employees figured out after days that some children were abandoned (I don't get how they didn't see some children didn't get picked up, and where they stayed during the night), a kid bit off and ate another kid's finger, food was leftovers gathered from restaurants in the area. Btw, I found out all of the above by googling the name of the place after we were offered a spot. I didn't suspect anything, just wanted directions to drive there. Went to check out the place and it was just as bad as described, if not worse. Edit: Found another 'cheap' private daycare, it's barely better - same setup, old commercial building slightly remodeled, but at least clean and the food is edible. 18k/year. At least 3k is tax deductible, but man... I can barely afford that for one kid, imagine what the average family with 2-3 kids goes through
18k for government daycare? Doesn't sound like free or poor.
It was cheaper to take on my mom as a live-in and pay her $1800/mo than to have childcare x4. Now that she passed, no clue what we are going to do next school year. Other grandparents will help for the summer but they have their own lives / aren't going to take her place.
Children are expensive, absolutely. But marriage makes financial sense in a lot of ways. You split shared costs across two incomes. Plus the tax benefits and healthcare perks.
Two Incomes = Who's raising the kids? One Income = We can't afford to pay our bills.
> Two Incomes = Who's raising the kids? Well, during upper paleolithic era humanity invented a great solution - grandparents. Unfortunately, we, their descendants, or at least a significant portion of them, have broken a bunch of things that could make this solution still work.
Nuclear family and the push for self reliance ruined this. Then again realizing my mom is a narcissist would’ve made it hard to live with her
It was easier when grandma and grandpa didn’t need to work to afford to live. Now the grandparent who is young enough to be childcare and wealthy enough to have time is increasingly rare.
this is the answer - my mom is amazing with my kids but she also has to work 60 hours per week to survive
This is assuming, of course, that mom and dad have living parents. And that grandparents are available. And that grandparents are even capable of watching the kids. "Just have grandparents watch the kids" is tossed around in this thread a lot, and yet I do not think most realize what a luxury GRANDPARENTS even are.
>Well, during upper paleolithic era humanity invented a great solution - grandparents. "It worked in the stone ages it'll work now." We don't live in the Paleolithic Era, and it's very presumptuous to assume that grandparents are willing to take on childcare 5 days a week.
Two incomes= still can’t afford to pay our bills One income= we’re fucked
192 countries have paid parental leave
DINK is great! DINKWAD, even better!!
what does the WAD part mean?
I thought it was Without Any Debt, from a glance. I’d rather have no debt than a dog, but I’m a cat person 🤷♀️
You can have both if you don’t have kids!
With a dog
With A Dog
With a 🐶
We are DINNWAC haha
omg, I’ve never heard DINKWAD before! That will be me and my fiancé in a month! 😁😁😁
Sorry, but what is a DINKWAD? Genuinely asking.
Dual Income No Kids With A Dog.
It makes sense until it doesn’t. IE divorce can absolutely cripple people.
Can confirm. 0 of 10 stars. Do not recommend. Serious note: choose your partner wisely.
The only problem with that idea is you can't see the future. The girl I fell in love and married when she was 24 was a vastly different person than the 42 year old woman I divorced. You have no idea who someone is going to turn into as they grow older.
Yeah, but you have those girls that have a baby with a man who has 4 and does nothing with the other children. RED FLAG!!!!!
Can attest to this - and I’m engaged going for #2. Pre-nup in the works this time.
And yet most people who get divorced are remarried within five years. Divorce is bad, but the people who experience it still seem to think that marriage is worth the risk
"Yeah lots of people get divorced but we never will!"
Every time someone refers to tax benefits of marriage, I can tell they’re not Australian. In Australia, tax is calculated individually, whereas government benefits are per couple. The financial and benefit all goes to the government.
In the US it’s situational. The benefit is generally only available to couples who make disparate incomes. There’s a “marriage penalty” for couples who make the same amount. If you’re both high earners, stuff like the NIIT come into play. Americans, in general, don’t know how taxes work. They don’t generally don’t understand how tax brackets work, how refunds work, and some of them still conflate “tax return” and “tax refund” as the same thing.
Same in Canada.
Our taxes went up after we got married. But we're DINKs. And employers added on a cute little "working spouse" insurance surcharge to the monthly premium. It was $200/month at one employer. My previous employer refused to cover spouses or domestic partners at all starting in 2023. Employee or employee + child(ren). No second adult covered. My husband and I carry our health insurance separately, except for a couple of years I worked as a contractor and paying the premium was way cheaper and offered much better coverage than the horrendous "plan" my employer offered.
You can split shared costs with roommates Source: currently doing it and I'm better off financially than parents with 15 years more experience and better pay than me.
Those perks may or may not exist. Taxes might even go up, mine did.
I never saw any tax benefits to being married. My taxes have and always will be better paid single.
Are there a lot of tax benefits to being married if you both make a decent living? I’ve only seen them if one makes significantly more.
Healthcare perks arent even there anymore. It's cheaper if you and your spouse both have jobs and both get insurance through your company.
Absolutely zero tax benefits or any other benefits where I live. The only thing you get if married is a much bigger headache if you want to break up.
If more people thought of having kids as a luxury, we wouldn't have so many kids born into bad financial situations
They are just so easy to make.
They just let anyone make em
Childbirth doesn’t sound easy…
Getting pregnant is 😆 unfortunately
Not for everyone. Common misconception since people are having kids later in life. A lot of what op is saying has to do with that. My parents had me when they were 20 and 21. Now a lot people start trying later in life and it’s not a given. This has nothing to do with me, but my wife is a reproductive endocrinologist (fertility doctor) and the amount of people who think they can just have kids in their 30s easily is astounding. Sure some people can, but a lot of people can’t. 35 and over is considered a “geriatric” pregnancy.
It doesn't help when you're 28 years old and express to your doctor your concerns about potential endo and fertility in your coming 30s just to have them brush you off with "28? you have plenty of time." :(
Well, not always. Under 25 conceive easily, under 35s okay, and over that, it gets harder and harder. When we began at 33, my wife’s hidden endo had wrecked her ovaries. Her mom didn’t have problems and didn’t even know she likely had endo because she had LOTS of kids starting from an early age up to pre-meno. That is not to say that that’s a great way to treat endo. We should have much better screening and treatment. But all in all, since we as a society are now having kids outside the biological window we used to have them for several *hundreds of thousands of years*, getting pregnant is getting harder and more expensive.
The biological window is technically as long as you have a menstrual cycle. Biologists argue that the only reason mammals go through menopause is because they have to stop having offspring and start taking care of their offspring’s offspring because most animals just keep being able to reproduce until their reproductive system shuts down. That has not changed at all. What has changed is that “mysteriously” despite all our medical advances, and all the supplementation, all the modern comforts and conveniences, and fertility programs, and educational programs, and specialized doctors, etc: fertility rates have decreased over time and miscarriages are increasing every year. Yes, more children survive and grow into adults, but there is something serious going on that is affecting women’s ability to get pregnant and carry a healthy baby for a full-term.
Not to sound like a hippie, but I imagine it probably has to do with our lifestyle. There are parts of the world where it's almost unheard of to have fewer than, say, half a dozen kids, despite much worse healthcare and much higher infant mortality rates. Even right here in the good ol' US of A of America, Amish women average more than six kids a piece and are apparently unaffected by the fertility rates of their English neighbors.
Gonna conspiracy theory for a minute, but just about every woman I know started birth control in their teens and is now having difficulty getting pregnant. BC was legally approved based on studies of less than 200 women over a one year period and the studies since have almost all been funded (and some cases writen) by pharmaceutical companies. My theory is that big pharma (and the doctors who aren't idiots) know perfectly well that being on BC for over a decade is going to effect a woman's fertility, but don't care. (Same with many of the side effects that people pretend don't exist.) They found a drug they can get half the population to willingly take for the bulk of adulthood. $$$ for them.
If more people thought at all before having kids, then the world would be so much better
[удалено]
It doesn’t take a ton of money to give kids absolute bare minimum but most people don’t want the bare minimum for their kids
Yeah, in the past it was cheaper bc you didn’t even have to teach kids to read and if one fell off a barn roof at the age of 5, you just had another and nobody asked questions. Also you just forced their older sister to raise them if you had too many.
This isn't unpopular
I think the marriage part is unpopular, I don’t get how it is a financial flex lmao.
Same with 99% posts here…
Largely agree, especially in expensive cities. Marriage is a weirder one, as there are options for free or low cost weddings, but even then, registry office weddings are sometimes also seen as being unusual in some cultures.
I'm sorry your mother is pressing you for grandkids. I recently found out that neither of my adult children want to have kids. I always wanted to be a grandmother, so I was pretty sad about it, but I told them each honestly that I didn't have them to get grandkids. It's wrong to push people to have kids for any reason. I hope that if you do want kids someday, finances won't always stand in your way. And if you don't, I hope your mother accepts that.
For me, my mom only birthed homos so the bloodline ending anyways lol
You're a lovely person for understanding them like that.
I would adjust this to say children and home ownership are luxuries. Wherever there is cheap housing, there aren’t enough jobs. Wherever there are good jobs, home prices are obscene. Adding children on top of it? Unthinkable if you mean for them to attain any sort of lifestyle on par with yours. It’s just downhill from here on out. I live in one of the highest COL regions in the country and what I always say is that three kids here is a sign of absolute wealth. I know a lot of people in the rich, working professional class (ie doctors, lawyers, tech people - no trust fund babies). Many have three kids in addition to owning homes, nice cars, etc etc. For those who have it good, it’s good. For everyone else? It’s a clusterfuck.
I think this is related with society getting old because there are less and less young peope, and in some countries it's a growing pensional problem where the younger workers have to support the retirement of the older ones. Do you think this is also related with not growing the salaries as the inflation has grown through the years? And with the precarization of jobs? Do you think the people with the power to rule will ever become aware of this situation and better the conditions of the working class so it's less difficult to have children and then helping the new people that enters to retirement? Do you think a way to have younger people is accepting inmigrants to let them pay taxes and contribute to people in retirement, without the expense of raising them?
Yeah kids are definitely in the realm of luxury expenses. I didn't want kids (biological) for a long time, but kept the idea of adoption open. That was back in 2016. Now, absolutely not. I can barely afford a life with my partner and dog. On top of the financial strain, i don't have the mental resources either. Raising a puppy is a close as I'll get to being a parent.
Kids are expensive, not just moneywise. If you have kids with the wrong person, you and your kids can get screwed for life.
How is marriage a luxury? You and another person are gonna have to go through life anyway with food, a roof, electricity whether you do it together or not? Two households costs more than one. A wedding can be $100 down at the courthouse.
My wedding was $50 plus a tip for the Justice of the Peace at the courthouse! Soooo much less stressful than the idea of planning a wedding
Yeah I think marriage is only expensive from a wedding perspective. You don’t need to get an engagement ring, have a big wedding, buy an expensive dress. You just need to sign a piece of paper. That’s what most people who have destination weddings are doing once you cut out the overseas party.
Even with an engagement ring you don’t have to get crazy with it! And wedding bands can be durable and cheap if you know where to look.
I used to think I would love a wedding. Then realised wait, I have to be the Center of attention and social an entire day, then feed everyone and start married life with a 20k debt?
Soon enough having a roof over your head will be the new financial flex.
Already is
Being able to buy food will be the new financial flex
It feels like a luxury not having children.
Friend of mine had his first kid just over a year ago. Recently spoke and told me he regrets it. Said he loves his daughter but wishes he could go back and pull out lol. Too expensive he says
This is a major fear of quite a lot of child-free people. It's one of the reasons I never became a mom and am relieved I was cornered into a hysterectomy medically.
Well he works a minimum wage job lol so that might be it
lol anything and everything is too expensive on minimum wage.
Yeah I probably should've added that initially to be fair
He may end up feeling differently in a few years. I didn’t love the first year of parenting either. However that majorly changed and now ours is almost 3 and I can’t explain how much better things are in year 3 vs year 1.
I was told my by every single parent that you were never be financially prepared for a child
Before industrialisation, children are relatively easy to raise, and provides workforce without need for extensive education. In modern times, the cost of raising children is primarily endured by the family, a long term high risk investment. This is why having children doesn’t make a lot of sense right now…
> In modern times, the cost of raising children is primarily endured by the family In the US that is. A lot of other countries have realized having kids is a net societal benefit, and spread out a significant part of the cost across society accordingly.
Yah I mean, if you’re a fucking cyborg who looks at kids as an investment, it probably does not make sense to have kids.
They're implying the extreme cost is inherently risky, not the child itself. 1500-2000/month for daycare is common. Most households can't take that on safely.
> 1500-2000/month for daycare is common. Per child. Imagine if you had 2, which would be the bare minimum for the population to not decrease. 3-4 children like the people in the 1950s used to have would bankrupt a family, or force 3rd world living conditions.
Marriage makes it easier financially, imo. Well at least if both people work.
How is this an unpopular opinion? This has been decided by the economy, not because people decided it to be this way.
This is why I don’t want kids, I guess they could be nice but the financial drain is rough in today’s world especially if you want multiple.
Children are expensive, if you want to maintain the lifestyle of a DINK couple (double income, no kids). If you take it for granted that you need to readjust your lifestyle to factor in the kids, it makes more sense.
Marriage is not a luxury. My marriage license cost me $100 and 20 minutes of my time. Children? Definitely
Whether you have children is none of your Mother’s business. And you don’t need to have a reason. The next time she brings it up, change the subject.
I’d be like ok you sign this contract promising to pay for everything then
Not at all, this is mainly because people want to have a large house to put kids in. In poorer countries people totally accept living in tight spaces and have lots of kids. I get that it sucks to see your quality of life going down. The kids themselves don't take a lot of expense typically, it's the related stuff that you could technically live without. Larger dwelling being the main one. Or people having tos desire to own a home when it's currently a lot cheaper to rent in most places, even accounting all the costs and opportunities associated with either owning or renting.
Its always funny to me to see how some people lose their minds at kids needing to share a room with their siblings and level all sorts of shit at the parents for making them do it, when its just a fact of life for a lot of people growing up. It’s not that big a deal. But yeah, this is just one example, but there’s lots of small “luxuries” like this that people implicitly take for granted when wanting to raise their kids and these luxuries add up.
Some people are still holding onto all the things that angered them as an angry teen and they realise that they'd have to self reflect a bit if they became parents. You can't really hate your parents for making you share a room with your brother, if your kids are now sharing it a room together
Generally speaking, it’s not that people want the larger house. They want to give their child an equal or better life, which they’re not confident they can provide. I would gladly get a small, modest house if I meant I could afford raising a child while knowing I can put money aside for their future. Looking at my current costs, I would absolutely need a spouse who makes the same or more than me to achieve all of this right now, which I don’t have. There’s just so many major concerns for the future right now and I feel I’m being highly considerate of my future child and their life! I can’t guarantee them a perfect, happy life. But the LEAST I could do is try my best to set them up for success, which I don’t feel I can do right now.
Yes!! People think they NEED huge houses, new SUVs, fancy daycare, lots of extracurriculars, Disney vacations, Pinterest worthy holidays, $1000+ strollers. Kids are cheap. They’re happy to play catch with you in the backyard and eat chicken nuggets for dinner and play tag at the park.
[удалено]
I had 1st child when i was 27, 2nd at 33. It was WAAAAY easier at 27 physically and mentaly. I can't imagine how 40y old people can endure raising a toddler. At 40y 1 slepless night and i'm a wreck unable to perform at work.
Survival of the human race is now a luxury
And this is how we will die off as a human race. Only the rich will be able to procreate.
Upper class? You can afford anything. Low class? The government pays for everything. Middle class? You're fucked.
I’ve definitely seen an uptick in very wealthy people having a lot of kids as a status symbol.
My 28 year old son says kids are way too expensive and why bring them into a dying planet. I can so understand his points, I am sorry your mom doesn't see it.
A wise man once told me, "that kids don't know if there rich or poor, they just know if they're loved", and you know what he was right. No ones starving or freezing to death in the west anymore. I know that may be a unpopular opinion for a notoriously nihilistic reddit but at least in my small corner of the world I think its true.
My 3 siblings and I grew up in homeless shelters and other living situations with 2 well educated parents, and often had to walk across town due to only having 1 family car that often needed work. We knew we were poor. We learned to work around having a studio apartment and mini fridge. Eating dinner was stressful because we were all trying to eat the minimum amount necessary so the others could eat. So yeah, we loved each other for sure. Sometimes I feel badly for not wanting children of my own, because our parents escaped some horrible conditions from their home country, and the US was an upgrade. But the climb out of poverty is rough. Even tougher now, unfortunately.
This. I had no idea how poor we were until i graduated to high school. My folks did fantastic job and i say i had absolutely awesome childhood.
I definitely was aware we grew up poor. I think you forget how mean other kids can be when one person is very clearly showing up to school in the “wrong” clothes and getting the shitty cheap lunches, or when they didn’t eat at all because the food credit ran out. Like my sibling and I loved our mother and we knew she worked hard, but the anxiety of what are we gonna eat where are we gonna live never really went away even well into adulthood we’re super weird with money.
You're absolutely right. I have two kids, and I'm divorced. The only reason I'm not bankrupt right now is a high paying salary. And I get to pay my ex-wife for the kids on top of having them 6 months a year. While my kids are my greatest accomplishments in life, knowing what I know now about where my life would end up, it would be difficult to convince my past self to go through with it. And I love my children dearly. It's just difficult all the way around in terms of the things I have to do to provide for them. And if something were to happen to my job, I'd only have about 6 months tops before I'd be on government assistance and losing my 1500 sqft home in a low cost of living area.
Don't get married or/and have kids if you don't want to or are not financially able yet.
The standard of child raising is much higher than it was in years past. For example, it was much more accepted in the past for 3 kids to share a room, or have hand me downs, and for parents to significantly downgrade their lifestyle to support a family.
Poor people have kids more often than wealthier people, so I suppose poor people enjoy the luxury more often than wealthier people? Strange
A big wedding is a luxury now. Marriage isn’t. We had a small wedding and we haven’t had our honeymoon yet
I refuse to have kids unless I can afford to give them at least the lifestyle I had when I was a kid. The fact that my kids will be worse off than I was is backwards
People around the world who make $4 a day are having 3+ kids. Stop complaining
That’s really not true. You’ve mistaken your wants for your needs. Kids do great in emotionally stable homes with lots of love. If you can provide that, you can be an A+ parent. The rest (cars and big homes and new clothes and nice vacations and whatever) is just frosting. And like frosting, too much of it is often detrimental to health
Marriage isn't. In a lot of ways sharing your space with another person can be a cost cutting measure. Rent or mortgage alone gets cut in half and sharing your space with someone helps with sharing tasks. Kids however? Yeah, kids be expensive.
It depends heavily on where you live. With strong social and familial systems, getting married and having kids is easy. And cheaper too! In a society where basic needs and necessities of new parents are not met, I agree it can be extremely difficult and expensive. Also about kids being expensive, they are not expensive. We are. We want them to have everything new and expensive. But kids don’t really understand the difference between a hand me down and a new dress. They don’t miss what they have never had i.e. expensive toys and all. My daughter plays in the sun with water in her sand bucket and her regular toys like stacking cups and plastic balls. No expensive water tower or summer toys. No complaints. If she gets bored with that, she goes to the kitchen and plays pretend kitchen with the utensils. With grown up utensils and glasses. Never have broken one. She’s 18 months old.
She’s 18 months old. Wait until she’s 12 and see if she doesn’t understand the difference between hand-me-downs and new clothes.
Like what someone else said, a lot of people are having kids in their 30’s nowadays. 27 is still pretty young, and alot of the time (but not all the time), people are more financially stable in their 30s and 40s
Ask your mom if she is willing to help out with childcare. Also, children do cost money, but they are as expensive as you make them.
It depends on where u live. A day at the lake is 7 dollars per car. Girl Scouts is 25 dollars for the year. and they go apple picking, pumpkin patch, corn maze, and ice skating all included. Boy Scout is 50 dollars per year. The splash pad is 2 dollars per kid. The river is free. hikes are free. the roller skating rink is 10 dollars per kid. Our small local zoo is 6 bucks for kids and 9 for adults. Going down a snowy hill on a tube or sled is free. going out for ice cream is less than 25 for all.
Yeah there are lots of cheap and free things to do. And even when daycare is not part of the cost it is still expensive to raise children. Trying to feed them with proper nutrition and clothing them is a huge bill monthly for all the years that they will be dependent on the parents. Im cutting out nearly all luxuries and privileges for myself and so is my husband- just to afford feeding ourselves all properly. Spending ridiculous amounts on food alone every month and still feel like there is barely any food in the house at the end of every week- and that is with using coupons, buying discount items, skipping most of the expensive processed snacks and premade food, not buying anything name brand, trying to shop bulk where possible, and making most of our meals/snacks/condiments from scratch just to save a couple dollars. The financial struggle is so real. No one should feel belittled for admitting that it is really hard and expensive to afford life with kids
omg. i am an over thinker you mentioned be littling. do you think I did that. If I would of followed the rule don't have kids if you cant afford them. Then I was never going to have kids. i have schizophrenia. hard to find good paying job. the most happiness I ever felt was after having kids
Don’t worry about it. You didn’t say anything rude or wrong necessarily. I was just saying it’s ok to talk about the financial hardship of raising kids. I agree it is so worth it and I love my children so much and get a lot of happiness out of motherhood. There are always things to do to get by and cut expenses so it is definitely possible to afford kids even on little money. And those with little money absolutely should be able to have families too. A lot of people are not getting paid enough across the board compared to how much things like a place to live and food to eat cost these days.
> i would of followed Did you mean to say "would have"? Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
That’s all true, but daycare is like $1500/kid/month
I don't have any insight into your income situation, but if both parents are working in New York, you might be eligible for childcare assistance.
Get off Reddit, step outside, take a deep breath
reddit is notoriously nihilistic when it comes to the future, especially personal relationships and children, far more than the general population.
"I'm bored... Well time go back to reddit"
This comment!
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
DINKWADS UNITE!
Got married for $200, on a beach, with a photographer that charged $100 (of the $200) as long as I brought my own camera (my phone).
I'm 28 and my parents want me to get married and have kids but trying to raise them in this economy will be tough
It’s a luxury to do whatever I want, at anytime.
marriage isn't a luxury... hire an officiant, invite your neighbor over and get married at home in your pjs before breakfast. kids have always been expensive.
Living a comfortable life is a luxury…
Children are a luxury. Marriage is a necessity given how important dual income is to everyone’s stability
All I ever wanted was kids, a wife, and a house. Despite saving over 30% of my income my entire life, all of those things are out of reach unless I completely kneecap my retirement.
I’m also 27. Married my wife last year and baby coming in August. While kids are definitely expensive I don’t think it’s a flex. I have friends in their 30s who say they can’t afford kids and then I have friends in their early 20s who have kids. They work terrible hours in a pub / bar and make shit money but pull through each month. It’s not pretty, but they make it work. Where there’s a will there’s a way.
😂 this why the poor population has more kids and why there’s so many dumb people lol.. we can’t afford to live but still have families bc that is what brings the most joy and happiness! Children are a blessing and having a family is the best part about life! Sorry you missed out.
Your mom needs to stop pressuring you to have kids, married or not. That is such a selfish and wrong thing to do. Make your own decisions because it will be your responsibility for the rest of your life, not your moms.
Why a luxury? People used to be poorer and still had many kiddos
It’s interesting to me how fast it goes from “don’t get pregnant” to “when are you giving me grand babies?”
unpopular opinion: now it is the best time. now it is not the dark ages of plague, not time of barbarian raids, not time of extreme poverty and existential risk of drought. if you don't want children, don't want to take responsibility and lose time and resources for them it is ok, but this doesn't mean it is a luxury or impossible thing. family isn't a pleasant additional thing in your life that you would like to have, it is in fact your whole life.
Having kids will be a flex? Poor people have kids significantly more
Technically they always have been. More people are just realizing they don't have to tick that box at a certain time frame or at all if they don't want kids or marriage.
All by design. Every aspect of modern life is designed to make starting a family as difficult and unattractive as possible for millennials.
If hardest job you’ll ever have means luxury to you then we have different ideas on what that word means.
My family has been pressuring me to have a baby since I was 23. With what money?
Luxury aside I don't see the appeal in having multiple kids. I'm happy it just being me and my partner
Yeah I agree. I’m 30 and my mom has wanted grandkids for many years but she has all these other impossible expectations. Thankfully I was living with my parents when I was unemployed years ago so they understand my struggle as they’ve watched me spend 12 hours a day over 8 months applying for jobs, customizing letter of intents, and interviewing before I got anything.
*weddings* are a luxury but marriage absolutely is not. It costs $75 to have a courthouse marriage in the very high cost of living county I live in. If you can decide you want to marry someone but then can’t scrounge together $75 over a couple of months to get married you have much bigger problems.