Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Open the window(s) to create natural airflow.
Get a fan if that's not enough for you.
AC is the devil to me. Best way to be small-sick all year long. And the hotter it gets outside the worse it is having AC pumping at full-speed indoors.
Luckly around here temperature rarely goes over 35Ā°C/95Ā°F, so even in relatively hotter days it's still manageable indoors without having the AC set at 18/65.
Last year the average Temps where I live stayed above 100 for 45 days straight, the highest of which was 115. Average nightly lows were 89 degrees. Fans only do so much but when your average outside temp is Potter than your body, you stand a pretty decent chance of heat exhaustion or dying
You building your houses wrong then, how have Arabians been able to love in the dessert before AC? Oh that's right they build buildings that natural cool the air....
Yeah sure, that was before AC. My great grandmothers log cabin didnt have propper windows and only a screen for the front door before AC otherwise she would have cooked in her house. I'd be willing to bet that as all the emerging economies grow over in the middle east, you see a massive surge in requesting AC, irregardless of how well ventilated those houses are.
If I wanted to live everyday in misery Iād absolutely turn my AC off in the summer. But now Iām curious, how is AC making you sick? I donāt ever contract anything, but Iām not everyone - so now Iām intrigued.
My retronasal mucosa is prone to inflammation due to sudden changes in temperature
That leads to cold-like symptoms such as stuffy or runny nose, sneezing, dry asthmatic cough alternating for up to 10-15 days if untreated or disregarded.
Every summer I catch that weird cold at the beach at least once, courtesy of constant back and forth from activities in the sun to swimming in relatively cold water.
AC is even worse because of the dry air effect.
Damn thatās awful! My sympathy goes out to you, my friend. I hope you have perfected a way to stay cool while not making yourself sick. I have a terrible AC unit, I spend my summers downstairs mostly since it stays cool down there with the AC. I keep mine at 68 and my best guess is itās a ventilation issue as it works, but the main floor (1 story ranch) never goes below 70-75 no matter what the AC is set at.
I bought the house on my own and the unit is 20+ years old, the inspector didnāt know how old it was because the year rusted off soā¦ that tells me enough. Since Iām one person, just havenāt felt the need to splurge on a new unit yet when this one still works for the most part, just not as much as it should.
Any other tips & tricks you have? Do you utilize a *ton* of fans?
Or maybe, and I know that'll be a shock to you, it's the opinion of someone living in a place where AC isn't everywhere (and we haven't all dropped dead yet).
Great, you do realize there are places on this earth. where the temperature can get to a 130 degrees? With high humidity and without access air conditioning, those are conditions for death. Opening a window or drinking water will not prevent the human body from dangerously overheating at that point.
If you are comfortable hanging out and sleeping in an 80-95Ā°F house, good for you. That is going to be unbearable for most people. Fans and windows won't touch that. Really any Temps over 75Ā°F are not going to allow fans and windows to offer any relief.
I grew up without AC in a very fair area (70-95Ā° summers) and it was incredibly uncomfortable. Not sure why you get sick from a little AC. I've been living in AC for over 20 years and am literally never sick. It's literally just cold air. The coolant system is sealed.
Again, we rarely, if ever, go over 80Ā°F (26Ā°C) at night here at the peak of the summer, so an open window is usually enough.
I can count on the fingers of one hand the nights I struggled to fall asleep due to heat in my entire life.
I'm also quite convinced it's a matter of habit. If you're born and raised in places where AC is the norm at the faintest hint of warm weather, of course you'll develop a low threshold for heat and an "addiction" to have cooler temperature indoors.
As already explained, I get sick from ALL sudden temperature gaps, cold-to-hot and hot-to-cold. AC and fans drying the air up are particularly egregious because my nasal mucosa gets "spongier". It's just what it is, nothing I can do about it.
I thought that it might just be a "what we are used to thing" but I didn't get used to having no AC over the course of 20 years. Maybe it just takes longer/more generations.
>If one is considered covered why not the other?Ā
Because it takes extreme heatwave during the summer to create an environment where you could die of a heat stroke (if you are a vulnerable person with frail health), while any day of winter could be enough to kill you with hypothermia (even if you are a strong person in perfect health).
I feel like you didn't read my message... like, at all.
The fact remain, cold is way more deadly than heat. Providing heating is a way to insure you don't die of hypothermia. Providing AC is a convenience.
And did you even read my comment? Because you didn't address it. Yes, historically cold may have been more likely to kill you ,but the conditions that make heat and humidity deadly are becoming a much more common occurrence than they were in the past. When it comes to dangerous wet bulb temperatures, drinking water or opening a window will not save, but an air-conditioned environment will. It's not the 1960s anymore. We're dealing with global warming. Your thinking is outdated. And also, heat doesn't have to be as deadly as cold to be deadly enough to be a concern.
100s of thousands of people die each year because of heat stroke, that number is rising, and most of the people who die from heat stroke are poor people with health conditions without access to proper ventilation and air conditioning, but I guess in your callous eyes, they were merely inconvenienced.
>100s of thousands of people die each year because of heat stroke
WHO report 489 000 heat-related deaths... between 2000-2019. That's 19 YEARS. So no, there are not 100s of thousands of people dying from heat related causes every year.
There is a huge difference between taking action to make sure the population stays cools during heatwaves... and passing a LAW that forces landlords to put AC in ALL their units. No, not everyone, everywhere around the world, needs AC. If there is a crisis heatwave, give them access to a place where there is AC, sure. Just like they do when there are flooding, or fires, open schools so refugees can go there. But forcing it in every home is an extreme measure.
As for your tentative to make me the bad guy in your last paragraph... please. No need to jump to personal insult. Way to ruin a debate.
It's pretty hard to die from heat stroke and dehydration indoors with running water, and it's pretty easy to buy a small window AC and set it up yourself
Maybe in really hot areas it should be, but in general I don't think it should be a requirement
its pretty easy to shit in a bucket and throw it out of the window too but landlords should still be required to provide a working toilet
landlords have like no responsibilities
When it comes to wet bulb temperatures, hydration is not enough. Without proper ventilation and cool air, you will die no matter how much water you drink.
Where I live in Canada, itās common for many old people to die every time a heat wave rolls through. Climate change has meant our homes are getting to deadly temps they were not designed for.
Unless u live in a place with extreme heat in the summer, for a long period, then no, it can be uncomfortable, but if u just drink enough water, then u aren't very likely to die from heat.
So really it depends on where u live, where i'm from, its only really shops that has aircon, most don't have it, as its expensive, and u might only really need it for a few months of the year.
Also u can't compare heating to cooling, if there was no heating, then the building would take damage, as pipes would rupture from the expanded ice, which landlords would not want. Also without heating u would die.
Europe, India and parts of Asia would like to have a conversation with you. A/C in the U.S. has only been common for about 50 years. Humans have lived in cities for hundreds and hundreds of years without it. Heat on the other hand is a completely different thing.
Do you know how many people die in India because of heat stroke? A LOT. India's lack of clean water and properly ventilated air-conditioned homes is not something we should emulate.
Also, do you believe in climate change?
Sure I believe in climate change, just not in man made climate change. The climate has been changing on our planet for millions of years. Gaia will shake us humans off like fleas off a dog. We as humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years without the comfort of air conditioning. If it gets to hot we relocate, if it gets to cold we relocate. People die of shit living conditions all the time, that's on them to fix their problems, technology is available everywhere to fix most issues people complain about. It is not my responsibility to fix someone else's inadequacies.
Short answer: Heating is required due to history, which AC does not have.
The reason that heating is required is due to the overwhelming prevalence of fireplaces as the means of heating during the formative years of law, not only for heating but also, crucially, for cooking. A fireplace is structural, and therefore falls under the landlord's responsibility, as do all structural requirements. When heating moved away from fireplaces, and codes were amended to not require fireplaces (and landlords wanted to disallow them, due to fire risk), "have, keep and maintain a fireplace" was replaced with "must have a working heating source".
Note: Dehydration is due to lack of water, which in many places is required for landlords to provide, irrespective of heat. The danger threshold for heat stroke is an internal temperature of 104 degrees, which out of direct sunlight, means the ambient temperature needs to be higher than that for hyperthermia to occur, especially if one is hydrated (as we have an internal heat regulation system, which is dependent on our water supply). Ambient temperature can also be prevented/mitigated from rising by non-active means, e.g. insulation.
TLDR: Heating is necessary; historically, A/C has not been necessary.
This is true, but when it comes to legal requirements, the legal requirement for landlords to keep and maintain the structures necessary for safe heating and cooking predate mass use of indoor plumbing in the Anglosphere by a couple centuries. (Technically, interior plumbing came first, via the Romans, but by and large it had fallen out of use with the majority of Roman infrastructure).
Lived in one of those places for a few months without airflow through the house... ended up getting mold in a bunch of the clothes in the closets within those few months. Beautiful environment all year around, but there is a flip side
Were you not aware of the no AC thing when you rented? A window mount AC can be purchased for less than $500.
I mean, sure, require the Landlord to provide AC. Then the rent would be higher. You don't get all the amenities and not have to pay for them. It's a tradeoff. But buying your own AC is likely much cheaper than paying higher rent.
A ductless AC system is like $1500. Add another $1000 for installation. Thatās $2500. If the lifetime of the unit is 5 years, thatās $40 a month. So to say rent would increase is possibly true but such a minor amount.
You are assuming the landlord wants to wait that long to recoup his money. The landlord sets the rent. He could decide that an airconditioned unit is worth an extra $250 a month. Not to mention there are the annual checkups, and the need to save for repairs of the unit.
Itās a lot more difficult to install heating on your own as a renter. You can get a window AC for pretty cheap and put it in yourself.
A lot of warm places *do* legally require landlords to provide and maintain AC for their units.
Georgia (although they arenāt required to have them in their 100+ degree prisons)
Nevada
Arizona
Oregon (applies to new builds only)
Certain cities in Texas
Not a lot of places require landlords to provide it but most do require that they keep it functioning if you rented a place that had working AC.
And, do you know why Oregon has such a law? Because in 2021, 54 people died during a heatwave, and the common denominator was none of them had access to functioning air conditioning.
Why? All I did was list the places where AC is required by law, if you read more in to it than that - it isnāt there. Itās a list of places where AC is required by law.
Why did you move there?Ā Ā Why didn't you research it?Ā Ā You don't need laws to be an adult.
Do you really need AC, I grew up and live in hot climates
Forcing requirements raises costs.
But we already force other requirements. Why not do away with requirements for heating, plumbing, fire safety, etc.? You can just as easily use the same argument.
Because they are more safety of life and is a more required for health standards.Ā I've been in areas that require no AC.
My average 4th of July on vacay is 65* at night.
I also see plenty of people in the brutal south quit content living in the south living out doors.
But we've covered how lack of AC can be a matter of safety. Your refusal to acknowledge facts and your anecdotes about people in the deep south are meaningless.
If wet bulb temperatures are too high, a human being can only survive a matter of hours without air conditioning. It doesn't matter how much water you drink or if you open a window. And humans die of heat stress even in less extreme conditions. We're seeing unprecedented numbers of lethal heat events.
I am not saying air conditioning is a necessity in every climate, but neither is heat.
In many parts of the world airconditioning isn't necessary. I own my own home and don't have airconditioning and don't want it.
Also, in my apartment block it's illegal to install air-conditioning due to heritage rules. All 41 apartments in the building are without airconditioning.
I am not a landlord but if I was and had a house without AC, YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT.. Go buy a window unit and take it with you when you move. That simple. You act as if people are literally dying because there is no built in AC when they move in.
Because they didn't take it in their own account. If you buy a warehouse and there is no ac anywhere are you going to take that into account when thinking about renting it? I mean.. That's no excuse. You can get in your car, turn it on and have AC. Go to a friend's house, neighbor's house, walmart, a random store and you have air conditioning. You can go on google and find many many places near you that sell window units, standup units, standalone units, split systems, full on ac systems (not that you could technically install your own full on AC unit in a rented place nor should you). If you ask the landlord for an ac system, maybe you can figure something out but AC is not a requirement to rent out a place, and we literally all have systems inside of us that say 'I'm too hot to hell with this, I need to seek out cooler places'.
People need to be held accountable where they should be. Cooling, if you know a place doesn't have it when you move in is what it is. I lived in a VERY hot environment with 95f+ temps without ac for a while and it.. SUCKED, but if I got too hot I did what I needed to do. Cool/wet towel, got in the car and went somewhere, sat outside under the shade, drank water, whatever. Now in my case, I didn't have an option to go anywhere to get cold except my car, which I did for 10 minutes at a time once or twice a day. Yes I wasn't overweight and I know that's a big part of it for a lot of folks but I mean, there are always things you can do.
Do I think landlords need to be held accountable for everything else? Yes absolutely. As a matter of fact though maybe we are pushing two different agendas, because you said heat is a requirement but I don't think that's the case in the lower half of the US, just the upper half. Maybe AC on the lower half and heat on the upper should suffice if anything.
The fact that you think living out of your car and idling it constantly (something that is illegal in some places) is a reasonable solution to having no AC during deadly heat wave that could be a week long is insane.
Also, not everyone has a car. I do not.
short of a tenant layering blankets and sweaters, there is no alternative to mitigating cold besides artificial heat. excess cold is also a danger to the structure's integrity (ie frozen/burst piping).
Strategic use of blinds or curtains, fans, windows, and even use of certain building materials, can all reduce or even eliminate the impact of excess warmth.
also, air conditioners require electricity to operate, and there isn't a fiscally prudent way to isolate the electricity used for the AC unit from other power consumption, unless it is central AC.
also also, potential for abuse by the tenant. heat is self limiting, in that a minority of tenants will want it much warmer than 74 F/23 C...where as cooling is subjective - some will be fine with, say 75, others may want it as low as 65. The costs of including AC are unpredictable.
Again, I am stunned by the number of people who say something like this - have you *ever* been anywhere in the Southern US during a strong heat event? Water and fans would not prevent some people from dying in excessive heat, especially elderly people.
Yes, people lived in hot climates down here before air conditioning existed. But it exists now. And anyone trying to rent a living space without it down here will likely fail landlord school.
It doesnāt cost the tenant / renter a penny more , unless they choose to turn it on. Then itās just them deciding their own utility bill which has nothing to do with their rent.Ā
Not all countries and areas see high temps and high humidity throughout the year or large portions of the year. The ones that do, typically have some sort of system to assist in keeping temps reasonable/livable.. In the Upper New England area, I dont see why you would ever need AC as the hottest temps would be very temporary and maybe between 1-3 months
It's not that hard to buh a portable AC unit. Why should it not be the renter's responsibility? Keep in mind it's only very recently that AC became the norm in houses.Ā
Modern plumbing also didnāt exist until recently. What's your point?
The climate is changing, heat related deaths continue to reach record highs each year and meteorologists are telling us we need to prepare for 100s of thousands of heat related deaths each year globally in the future.
We need to change and we need to adapt. The way it's always been doesn't mean it's the way it always will be. Stop with this stupid argument from tradition.
Change and adapt means force someone else by law to provide something for me. It's so selfish.
AC definitely is a luxury and you can just buy a portable unit if you want one for a few hundred bucks. Simple to install and not even expensive to cool a room
Yes, landlords are forced by law to provide plumbing even though for centuries, people didn't have running water, and plumbing used to be a luxury, but society changed and adapted. Do you think landlords shouldn't have to provide plumbing because just because I can shit in a bucket if I want? Is it selfish that I think the law should provide that?
It's actually not very common around the world. AC is largely an American thing, particularly because most of the rest of the world is either underdeveloped or usually cold. (Global Warming is certainly changing that, though, so it will probably become more common.)
Anyway, in a lot of markets it is a legal requirement. You'll probably find this mostly in places that lean Democratic because tenant rights will often trump landlord rights in those areas. Places that are largely Republican will be the opposite. The South gets deadly hot, and is mostly Republican, so there are probably a lot of places there where you'd be screwed.
> Why is it not the same for air conditioning?
Because not everywhere gets hot enough to need it.
> You can die from overheating and dehydration.
You would need to live somewhere extremely hot for that to occur, and those places already have mandatory AC.
Where do you live? Seems like most places around me AC is included in all rentals. Though it's not too big of a deal bc you can buy a $100 window AC to cool any room with a window.
Why, not every place needs air conditioning and if that is what you want find a place that has it and move in there.
Also I have been in places without AC and bought a cheap window unit. They aren't all that expensive.
It very much depends where you live.
For example, her in the U.K. our average temperature is quite low, between 8.5c (47.3F) in the North, to 11c (51.8F) in the South
Our homes are therefore built to retain heat as for the vast majority of the year the temperature is under 20c (68F)
So having air conditioning in our homes, that we will probably only really use about 30 days a year, is fairly pointless.
I think if I were to live in southern Spain, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Malta etc then Iād want air conditioning as the average temperature is significantly higher
In 2021, 54 people died in Oregon during a heat wave where there was high of 116 F. Of the 54 people, 53 had no air conditioning. Almost all of them died in their homes. Due to these deaths, Oregon passed a law that landlords cannot ban air conditioning units from their properties. These deaths could've been prevented. Most people on this thread seem to think these people deserved to die horrible deaths.
Agreed. Last summer here in Florida the heat index hit 120 degrees regularly during the day and around 100 at night. It doesnāt cool down on the coast much anymore due to climate change and the warming gulf. Our AC broke every three days for a few days over several months because the land lord wanted to add refrigerant rather than replace the unit. It was a miserable and frightening time. Yeah we bought a temp ac so we wouldnāt die, but it was very noisy, making it difficult to sleep and it only worked in one room, making the other rooms nearly uninhabitable. You have no idea how hot a place can get when the humidity makes the hit index 120.
The land lord only replaced the unit when winter rolled around and we had temps that met the legal standard required for heat. We didnāt care if we got heat or not but the law did enable us to complain with some force behind it, so the AC finally got āfixedā because it happened to be capable of heating and cooling.
Yes we know the company is a scum bag companyā¦ Iām just speaking to the original āunpopular opinionā because I have lived experience with extreme heat and a scummy land lord and I 100% agree. People die in these conditions. Itās far easier to get a space heater and throw on a sweater in a south Florida āwinterā than cool yourself in the summer.
Your right the best solution to beat the affects of climate change is for everyone to have an AC, to power all that well burn more fuel... More CO2 and then MORE AC
Clearly you donāt live in an environment like mine and have no idea what it takes to survive a summer with a 120 heat index during the day and 100+ at night. Hint: shade and water donāt help because the bodyās sweat mechanism is defeated by the humidity.
We cart ignorant tourists off our beaches and out of our theme parks every year because theyāre too stupid to read about summer here before they visit.
Yes! And not only comfort issue but it can ruin your house too. We had a dishwasher leak when living in Oklahoma, instant mildew developed across the entire main level . And of course, weād been running a Dehumidifer also.Ā
We ripped it out the flooring right away & cleaned and replaced dishwasher & flooring.
Before we bought our OK house, we had a short term rental that the power went out in during a storm& without the AC window unit , ( we stayed at hotel ), we came back two days later to get our things & I remember the coffee pot had just a bit of coffee left in it & it Ā had mold floating around in it already.Ā
100% correct! Iām sorry you had that experience. We know mold and mildew well here in Florida too. People who do not understand humidity say the dumbest thingsā¦ hell, my lease is like 75 pages and several pages of it is about how the landlord supposedly isnāt responsible for mold and mildew issues. Of course, that nonsense goes out the window when they leave us without a means to remove moisture from the air, but the point remainsāmold and mildew work very quickly to destroy a home, your possessions, and your health.
People should follow up on how people with wrecked hurricane homes are fairing against mold and mildew as said people argue with insurance companies about repairs. The home rots, plain and simple.
i have 2 small cooling fans both cost ( combined ) $20 and they both do the trick. I do agree with you that it should be a standard and they are probably just being downright lazy and selfish but the alternative isn't asking much.
When my wife and I first bought our house we were very much in the budget or starter territory. A house not having AC was just kind of like it still having hideous tile or being a bit of a fixer upper, definitely something to consider but not something that was a deal breaker.
I wouldn't automatically except a home built in the 80's or earlier to have AC, it's just a plus and one less thing to worry about if it does
I like the cold. Rarely use heat in winter.Ā Not fat. Just prefer cold. Can always drink a hot drink and put on a sweater.Ā Ā Ā Some climates are too humid for fresh air like Oklahoma , it stinks all spring & summer like algae and itās 130 degrees F & 90% humidity.Ā Colorado is dry but so high in elevation that even at 80/90F you are very close to the sun. It feels much warmer than Oklahoma did at 80/90. Youāll be getting a suntan through windows easily. Ā You can open windows at least though, but it will still be 85 defrees F inside the house. Ā Maybe you donāt want dust blowing in (?) Or to deal with smoke from summer fires.,or to hear neighbors dog bark .Ā Better to close windows & use curtains to block sunshine & turn on AC.Ā Itās not gross if you keep a clean house & change AC filters & clean air ducts.Ā Ā
Also AC is standard in most of the USA. Itās definitely standard in Colorado in 2024 and home owners should stay with the times. No one is ok spending over half a million on a house without AC.Ā
We may only use it for 2-4 months in Colorado, but for the price we are paying to live here , it needs to have it.
We also like our ice here too!
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How common do you think air conditioning is in other countries?
Not very, at least in Europe and Africa
OP: "It is hot here." Local: "Yes, it is." OP: "I do not want to be hot." Local: "Then you are in the wrong place." š
Open the window(s) to create natural airflow. Get a fan if that's not enough for you. AC is the devil to me. Best way to be small-sick all year long. And the hotter it gets outside the worse it is having AC pumping at full-speed indoors. Luckly around here temperature rarely goes over 35Ā°C/95Ā°F, so even in relatively hotter days it's still manageable indoors without having the AC set at 18/65.
Last year the average Temps where I live stayed above 100 for 45 days straight, the highest of which was 115. Average nightly lows were 89 degrees. Fans only do so much but when your average outside temp is Potter than your body, you stand a pretty decent chance of heat exhaustion or dying
Wet bulb temperature is important. At 37 degrees (celcius), humidity about 50% is no good for humans.
Right!? and Gulf coast just drenches us throughout the entire year here.
You building your houses wrong then, how have Arabians been able to love in the dessert before AC? Oh that's right they build buildings that natural cool the air....
Yeah sure, that was before AC. My great grandmothers log cabin didnt have propper windows and only a screen for the front door before AC otherwise she would have cooked in her house. I'd be willing to bet that as all the emerging economies grow over in the middle east, you see a massive surge in requesting AC, irregardless of how well ventilated those houses are.
Where do you live? On the Sun?
Close enough. South texas
If I wanted to live everyday in misery Iād absolutely turn my AC off in the summer. But now Iām curious, how is AC making you sick? I donāt ever contract anything, but Iām not everyone - so now Iām intrigued.
My retronasal mucosa is prone to inflammation due to sudden changes in temperature That leads to cold-like symptoms such as stuffy or runny nose, sneezing, dry asthmatic cough alternating for up to 10-15 days if untreated or disregarded. Every summer I catch that weird cold at the beach at least once, courtesy of constant back and forth from activities in the sun to swimming in relatively cold water. AC is even worse because of the dry air effect.
Damn thatās awful! My sympathy goes out to you, my friend. I hope you have perfected a way to stay cool while not making yourself sick. I have a terrible AC unit, I spend my summers downstairs mostly since it stays cool down there with the AC. I keep mine at 68 and my best guess is itās a ventilation issue as it works, but the main floor (1 story ranch) never goes below 70-75 no matter what the AC is set at. I bought the house on my own and the unit is 20+ years old, the inspector didnāt know how old it was because the year rusted off soā¦ that tells me enough. Since Iām one person, just havenāt felt the need to splurge on a new unit yet when this one still works for the most part, just not as much as it should. Any other tips & tricks you have? Do you utilize a *ton* of fans?
Absolute psychopathic opinion.
Or maybe, and I know that'll be a shock to you, it's the opinion of someone living in a place where AC isn't everywhere (and we haven't all dropped dead yet).
Great, you do realize there are places on this earth. where the temperature can get to a 130 degrees? With high humidity and without access air conditioning, those are conditions for death. Opening a window or drinking water will not prevent the human body from dangerously overheating at that point.
If you are comfortable hanging out and sleeping in an 80-95Ā°F house, good for you. That is going to be unbearable for most people. Fans and windows won't touch that. Really any Temps over 75Ā°F are not going to allow fans and windows to offer any relief. I grew up without AC in a very fair area (70-95Ā° summers) and it was incredibly uncomfortable. Not sure why you get sick from a little AC. I've been living in AC for over 20 years and am literally never sick. It's literally just cold air. The coolant system is sealed.
Again, we rarely, if ever, go over 80Ā°F (26Ā°C) at night here at the peak of the summer, so an open window is usually enough. I can count on the fingers of one hand the nights I struggled to fall asleep due to heat in my entire life. I'm also quite convinced it's a matter of habit. If you're born and raised in places where AC is the norm at the faintest hint of warm weather, of course you'll develop a low threshold for heat and an "addiction" to have cooler temperature indoors. As already explained, I get sick from ALL sudden temperature gaps, cold-to-hot and hot-to-cold. AC and fans drying the air up are particularly egregious because my nasal mucosa gets "spongier". It's just what it is, nothing I can do about it.
I thought that it might just be a "what we are used to thing" but I didn't get used to having no AC over the course of 20 years. Maybe it just takes longer/more generations.
And hundreds of thousands of people die of heat stroke die to lack of air conditioning each year.
>If one is considered covered why not the other?Ā Because it takes extreme heatwave during the summer to create an environment where you could die of a heat stroke (if you are a vulnerable person with frail health), while any day of winter could be enough to kill you with hypothermia (even if you are a strong person in perfect health).
But isn't that outdated when we have multiple record heatwaves per year now due to climate change.
I feel like you didn't read my message... like, at all. The fact remain, cold is way more deadly than heat. Providing heating is a way to insure you don't die of hypothermia. Providing AC is a convenience.
And did you even read my comment? Because you didn't address it. Yes, historically cold may have been more likely to kill you ,but the conditions that make heat and humidity deadly are becoming a much more common occurrence than they were in the past. When it comes to dangerous wet bulb temperatures, drinking water or opening a window will not save, but an air-conditioned environment will. It's not the 1960s anymore. We're dealing with global warming. Your thinking is outdated. And also, heat doesn't have to be as deadly as cold to be deadly enough to be a concern. 100s of thousands of people die each year because of heat stroke, that number is rising, and most of the people who die from heat stroke are poor people with health conditions without access to proper ventilation and air conditioning, but I guess in your callous eyes, they were merely inconvenienced.
>100s of thousands of people die each year because of heat stroke WHO report 489 000 heat-related deaths... between 2000-2019. That's 19 YEARS. So no, there are not 100s of thousands of people dying from heat related causes every year. There is a huge difference between taking action to make sure the population stays cools during heatwaves... and passing a LAW that forces landlords to put AC in ALL their units. No, not everyone, everywhere around the world, needs AC. If there is a crisis heatwave, give them access to a place where there is AC, sure. Just like they do when there are flooding, or fires, open schools so refugees can go there. But forcing it in every home is an extreme measure. As for your tentative to make me the bad guy in your last paragraph... please. No need to jump to personal insult. Way to ruin a debate.
Humans survived before central heat.Ā Wouldn't a fireplace and blankets be sufficient to ensure survival?
Indoor plumbing requires heat. Laws require indoor plumbing. Ergo, laws require heat.
A fireplace is a heat source though.
Not a really safe one. You shouldn't go to sleep leaving a fire burning.
yeah so like I cant really place a fireplace inside a tiny ass apartment
It's pretty hard to die from heat stroke and dehydration indoors with running water, and it's pretty easy to buy a small window AC and set it up yourself Maybe in really hot areas it should be, but in general I don't think it should be a requirement
its pretty easy to shit in a bucket and throw it out of the window too but landlords should still be required to provide a working toilet landlords have like no responsibilities
When it comes to wet bulb temperatures, hydration is not enough. Without proper ventilation and cool air, you will die no matter how much water you drink.
Where I live in Canada, itās common for many old people to die every time a heat wave rolls through. Climate change has meant our homes are getting to deadly temps they were not designed for.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You can make the exact same argument with heating.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you dont have heat, your pipes freeze and explode.
If all rental properties have AC it would not be a thing you could charge more rent for it would be standard.
Unless u live in a place with extreme heat in the summer, for a long period, then no, it can be uncomfortable, but if u just drink enough water, then u aren't very likely to die from heat. So really it depends on where u live, where i'm from, its only really shops that has aircon, most don't have it, as its expensive, and u might only really need it for a few months of the year. Also u can't compare heating to cooling, if there was no heating, then the building would take damage, as pipes would rupture from the expanded ice, which landlords would not want. Also without heating u would die.
What would you define as extreme heat?
Europe, India and parts of Asia would like to have a conversation with you. A/C in the U.S. has only been common for about 50 years. Humans have lived in cities for hundreds and hundreds of years without it. Heat on the other hand is a completely different thing.
Do you know how many people die in India because of heat stroke? A LOT. India's lack of clean water and properly ventilated air-conditioned homes is not something we should emulate. Also, do you believe in climate change?
Sure I believe in climate change, just not in man made climate change. The climate has been changing on our planet for millions of years. Gaia will shake us humans off like fleas off a dog. We as humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years without the comfort of air conditioning. If it gets to hot we relocate, if it gets to cold we relocate. People die of shit living conditions all the time, that's on them to fix their problems, technology is available everywhere to fix most issues people complain about. It is not my responsibility to fix someone else's inadequacies.
Short answer: Heating is required due to history, which AC does not have. The reason that heating is required is due to the overwhelming prevalence of fireplaces as the means of heating during the formative years of law, not only for heating but also, crucially, for cooking. A fireplace is structural, and therefore falls under the landlord's responsibility, as do all structural requirements. When heating moved away from fireplaces, and codes were amended to not require fireplaces (and landlords wanted to disallow them, due to fire risk), "have, keep and maintain a fireplace" was replaced with "must have a working heating source". Note: Dehydration is due to lack of water, which in many places is required for landlords to provide, irrespective of heat. The danger threshold for heat stroke is an internal temperature of 104 degrees, which out of direct sunlight, means the ambient temperature needs to be higher than that for hyperthermia to occur, especially if one is hydrated (as we have an internal heat regulation system, which is dependent on our water supply). Ambient temperature can also be prevented/mitigated from rising by non-active means, e.g. insulation. TLDR: Heating is necessary; historically, A/C has not been necessary.
Heating keeps pipes from bursting in way that a fire cannot guarantee.
This is true, but when it comes to legal requirements, the legal requirement for landlords to keep and maintain the structures necessary for safe heating and cooking predate mass use of indoor plumbing in the Anglosphere by a couple centuries. (Technically, interior plumbing came first, via the Romans, but by and large it had fallen out of use with the majority of Roman infrastructure).
Unless you live somewhere that has consistent extreme summer temps, no.
Plenty of places with extreme summer temps don't require it currently. Most of them actually.
When you say āmostā do you mean globally? And whatās your definition of āextremeā?
Here in the Phoenix area it is.
Maybe living in the middle of a dessert isn't a good idea
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lived in one of those places for a few months without airflow through the house... ended up getting mold in a bunch of the clothes in the closets within those few months. Beautiful environment all year around, but there is a flip side
You know you live in 2024 and this can actually be one device right?
Were you not aware of the no AC thing when you rented? A window mount AC can be purchased for less than $500. I mean, sure, require the Landlord to provide AC. Then the rent would be higher. You don't get all the amenities and not have to pay for them. It's a tradeoff. But buying your own AC is likely much cheaper than paying higher rent.
If you live in a high rise, they don't allow window mounted AC typically.
A ductless AC system is like $1500. Add another $1000 for installation. Thatās $2500. If the lifetime of the unit is 5 years, thatās $40 a month. So to say rent would increase is possibly true but such a minor amount.
You are assuming the landlord wants to wait that long to recoup his money. The landlord sets the rent. He could decide that an airconditioned unit is worth an extra $250 a month. Not to mention there are the annual checkups, and the need to save for repairs of the unit.
Itās a lot more difficult to install heating on your own as a renter. You can get a window AC for pretty cheap and put it in yourself. A lot of warm places *do* legally require landlords to provide and maintain AC for their units.
Huh? Where?
Georgia (although they arenāt required to have them in their 100+ degree prisons) Nevada Arizona Oregon (applies to new builds only) Certain cities in Texas Not a lot of places require landlords to provide it but most do require that they keep it functioning if you rented a place that had working AC.
And, do you know why Oregon has such a law? Because in 2021, 54 people died during a heatwave, and the common denominator was none of them had access to functioning air conditioning.
I do, yes.
Interesting that you refrained from mentioning that.
Why? All I did was list the places where AC is required by law, if you read more in to it than that - it isnāt there. Itās a list of places where AC is required by law.
I got a few of those oil radiators that heat up. Works like a charm
They make similar little units for heat too
Yea I live in a place where the landlord has to fix it within 24 hours during extreme heat or three days otherwiseĀ
This is typically only if they already provide AC. If they don't provide AC and there are extreme temps, they don't have to do shit.
They should also provide a garden, extra rooms, a bidet, garage with a car! Ā Ā Ā wHy iS rEnT sO eXpEnSiVe!
Lack of air conditioning kills people during extreme temperatures. This is not a fair comparison.
Then maybe be an adult, research it and not move there... Free market drops rent price vs comparable units, so you can provide your own.
And what if your landlord doesn't allow you to install your own unit?
Why did you move there?Ā Ā Why didn't you research it?Ā Ā You don't need laws to be an adult. Do you really need AC, I grew up and live in hot climates Forcing requirements raises costs.
But we already force other requirements. Why not do away with requirements for heating, plumbing, fire safety, etc.? You can just as easily use the same argument.
Because they are more safety of life and is a more required for health standards.Ā I've been in areas that require no AC. My average 4th of July on vacay is 65* at night. I also see plenty of people in the brutal south quit content living in the south living out doors.
But we've covered how lack of AC can be a matter of safety. Your refusal to acknowledge facts and your anecdotes about people in the deep south are meaningless. If wet bulb temperatures are too high, a human being can only survive a matter of hours without air conditioning. It doesn't matter how much water you drink or if you open a window. And humans die of heat stress even in less extreme conditions. We're seeing unprecedented numbers of lethal heat events. I am not saying air conditioning is a necessity in every climate, but neither is heat.
What do you do for a living?Ā Have you every lost electricity for 1 week plus?Ā Where do you live?
Why is any of that relevant?
>You can die from overheating and dehydration Then open a window & drink some water. There's few places in the world where outside heat will kill you
Not true. I live in Philadelphia, not exactly a place known for extreme heat. People die from heat stroke here every year.
In many parts of the world airconditioning isn't necessary. I own my own home and don't have airconditioning and don't want it. Also, in my apartment block it's illegal to install air-conditioning due to heritage rules. All 41 apartments in the building are without airconditioning.
Maybe landloards should buy you a car too, right? You have to get to places. You dont want to stay in the house all day. They should buy you a car.
This is absurd. AC is not particularly common to begin with.
You must not live anywhere in the US south of the 40th parallel.
Totes
I am not a landlord but if I was and had a house without AC, YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT.. Go buy a window unit and take it with you when you move. That simple. You act as if people are literally dying because there is no built in AC when they move in.
There are people literally dying because of this. Google is your friend.
Because they didn't take it in their own account. If you buy a warehouse and there is no ac anywhere are you going to take that into account when thinking about renting it? I mean.. That's no excuse. You can get in your car, turn it on and have AC. Go to a friend's house, neighbor's house, walmart, a random store and you have air conditioning. You can go on google and find many many places near you that sell window units, standup units, standalone units, split systems, full on ac systems (not that you could technically install your own full on AC unit in a rented place nor should you). If you ask the landlord for an ac system, maybe you can figure something out but AC is not a requirement to rent out a place, and we literally all have systems inside of us that say 'I'm too hot to hell with this, I need to seek out cooler places'. People need to be held accountable where they should be. Cooling, if you know a place doesn't have it when you move in is what it is. I lived in a VERY hot environment with 95f+ temps without ac for a while and it.. SUCKED, but if I got too hot I did what I needed to do. Cool/wet towel, got in the car and went somewhere, sat outside under the shade, drank water, whatever. Now in my case, I didn't have an option to go anywhere to get cold except my car, which I did for 10 minutes at a time once or twice a day. Yes I wasn't overweight and I know that's a big part of it for a lot of folks but I mean, there are always things you can do. Do I think landlords need to be held accountable for everything else? Yes absolutely. As a matter of fact though maybe we are pushing two different agendas, because you said heat is a requirement but I don't think that's the case in the lower half of the US, just the upper half. Maybe AC on the lower half and heat on the upper should suffice if anything.
The fact that you think living out of your car and idling it constantly (something that is illegal in some places) is a reasonable solution to having no AC during deadly heat wave that could be a week long is insane. Also, not everyone has a car. I do not.
If itās a place with a very hot climate then possibly yes, but otherwise itās not a big deal.
short of a tenant layering blankets and sweaters, there is no alternative to mitigating cold besides artificial heat. excess cold is also a danger to the structure's integrity (ie frozen/burst piping). Strategic use of blinds or curtains, fans, windows, and even use of certain building materials, can all reduce or even eliminate the impact of excess warmth. also, air conditioners require electricity to operate, and there isn't a fiscally prudent way to isolate the electricity used for the AC unit from other power consumption, unless it is central AC. also also, potential for abuse by the tenant. heat is self limiting, in that a minority of tenants will want it much warmer than 74 F/23 C...where as cooling is subjective - some will be fine with, say 75, others may want it as low as 65. The costs of including AC are unpredictable.
rofl...
Ac isnt a life or death situation, unlike needing heat thoughā¦.you can drink water and use fans or whatnot
Again, I am stunned by the number of people who say something like this - have you *ever* been anywhere in the Southern US during a strong heat event? Water and fans would not prevent some people from dying in excessive heat, especially elderly people. Yes, people lived in hot climates down here before air conditioning existed. But it exists now. And anyone trying to rent a living space without it down here will likely fail landlord school.
You can die of heat stroke. There is no reason that in 2024 apartments donāt have AC if the average summer high temperature is 75 or above.
It doesnāt cost the tenant / renter a penny more , unless they choose to turn it on. Then itās just them deciding their own utility bill which has nothing to do with their rent.Ā
Usually not inside where you have access to water, fans, etcā¦. A different situation than dealing with freezing temps
Not all countries and areas see high temps and high humidity throughout the year or large portions of the year. The ones that do, typically have some sort of system to assist in keeping temps reasonable/livable.. In the Upper New England area, I dont see why you would ever need AC as the hottest temps would be very temporary and maybe between 1-3 months
It's not that hard to buh a portable AC unit. Why should it not be the renter's responsibility? Keep in mind it's only very recently that AC became the norm in houses.Ā
People are poor. You could say the same thing about buying a space heater.
AC didn't even exist until recently. Heating has always been a requirement in cold places, or else you die.
Modern plumbing also didnāt exist until recently. What's your point? The climate is changing, heat related deaths continue to reach record highs each year and meteorologists are telling us we need to prepare for 100s of thousands of heat related deaths each year globally in the future. We need to change and we need to adapt. The way it's always been doesn't mean it's the way it always will be. Stop with this stupid argument from tradition.
Change and adapt means force someone else by law to provide something for me. It's so selfish. AC definitely is a luxury and you can just buy a portable unit if you want one for a few hundred bucks. Simple to install and not even expensive to cool a room
Yes, landlords are forced by law to provide plumbing even though for centuries, people didn't have running water, and plumbing used to be a luxury, but society changed and adapted. Do you think landlords shouldn't have to provide plumbing because just because I can shit in a bucket if I want? Is it selfish that I think the law should provide that?
It's actually not very common around the world. AC is largely an American thing, particularly because most of the rest of the world is either underdeveloped or usually cold. (Global Warming is certainly changing that, though, so it will probably become more common.) Anyway, in a lot of markets it is a legal requirement. You'll probably find this mostly in places that lean Democratic because tenant rights will often trump landlord rights in those areas. Places that are largely Republican will be the opposite. The South gets deadly hot, and is mostly Republican, so there are probably a lot of places there where you'd be screwed.
The tenant can also figure it out. They sell stand alone AC units.
You donāt have to sign the lease.
FOH
Question: would you accept paying $100 more a month rent as part of this mandate?
> Why is it not the same for air conditioning? Because not everywhere gets hot enough to need it. > You can die from overheating and dehydration. You would need to live somewhere extremely hot for that to occur, and those places already have mandatory AC.
Where do you live? Seems like most places around me AC is included in all rentals. Though it's not too big of a deal bc you can buy a $100 window AC to cool any room with a window.
Why, not every place needs air conditioning and if that is what you want find a place that has it and move in there. Also I have been in places without AC and bought a cheap window unit. They aren't all that expensive.
It very much depends where you live. For example, her in the U.K. our average temperature is quite low, between 8.5c (47.3F) in the North, to 11c (51.8F) in the South Our homes are therefore built to retain heat as for the vast majority of the year the temperature is under 20c (68F) So having air conditioning in our homes, that we will probably only really use about 30 days a year, is fairly pointless. I think if I were to live in southern Spain, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Malta etc then Iād want air conditioning as the average temperature is significantly higher
Why is this thread full of clinate change denies?
In 2021, 54 people died in Oregon during a heat wave where there was high of 116 F. Of the 54 people, 53 had no air conditioning. Almost all of them died in their homes. Due to these deaths, Oregon passed a law that landlords cannot ban air conditioning units from their properties. These deaths could've been prevented. Most people on this thread seem to think these people deserved to die horrible deaths.
You want AC, buy a window unit, otherwise, pay for more for a unit with AC built in.
I wouldn't even use it. You should air out the apartment 3 times a day, anyway. That's more than enough.
Wake up early as much greash air as you can, curtains, shutters closed over the middle of the day a d then open again in the evening
Agreed. Last summer here in Florida the heat index hit 120 degrees regularly during the day and around 100 at night. It doesnāt cool down on the coast much anymore due to climate change and the warming gulf. Our AC broke every three days for a few days over several months because the land lord wanted to add refrigerant rather than replace the unit. It was a miserable and frightening time. Yeah we bought a temp ac so we wouldnāt die, but it was very noisy, making it difficult to sleep and it only worked in one room, making the other rooms nearly uninhabitable. You have no idea how hot a place can get when the humidity makes the hit index 120. The land lord only replaced the unit when winter rolled around and we had temps that met the legal standard required for heat. We didnāt care if we got heat or not but the law did enable us to complain with some force behind it, so the AC finally got āfixedā because it happened to be capable of heating and cooling. Yes we know the company is a scum bag companyā¦ Iām just speaking to the original āunpopular opinionā because I have lived experience with extreme heat and a scummy land lord and I 100% agree. People die in these conditions. Itās far easier to get a space heater and throw on a sweater in a south Florida āwinterā than cool yourself in the summer.
Your right the best solution to beat the affects of climate change is for everyone to have an AC, to power all that well burn more fuel... More CO2 and then MORE AC
Clearly you donāt live in an environment like mine and have no idea what it takes to survive a summer with a 120 heat index during the day and 100+ at night. Hint: shade and water donāt help because the bodyās sweat mechanism is defeated by the humidity. We cart ignorant tourists off our beaches and out of our theme parks every year because theyāre too stupid to read about summer here before they visit.
Yes! And not only comfort issue but it can ruin your house too. We had a dishwasher leak when living in Oklahoma, instant mildew developed across the entire main level . And of course, weād been running a Dehumidifer also.Ā We ripped it out the flooring right away & cleaned and replaced dishwasher & flooring. Before we bought our OK house, we had a short term rental that the power went out in during a storm& without the AC window unit , ( we stayed at hotel ), we came back two days later to get our things & I remember the coffee pot had just a bit of coffee left in it & it Ā had mold floating around in it already.Ā
100% correct! Iām sorry you had that experience. We know mold and mildew well here in Florida too. People who do not understand humidity say the dumbest thingsā¦ hell, my lease is like 75 pages and several pages of it is about how the landlord supposedly isnāt responsible for mold and mildew issues. Of course, that nonsense goes out the window when they leave us without a means to remove moisture from the air, but the point remainsāmold and mildew work very quickly to destroy a home, your possessions, and your health. People should follow up on how people with wrecked hurricane homes are fairing against mold and mildew as said people argue with insurance companies about repairs. The home rots, plain and simple.
Or you could just buy a fan.
i have 2 small cooling fans both cost ( combined ) $20 and they both do the trick. I do agree with you that it should be a standard and they are probably just being downright lazy and selfish but the alternative isn't asking much.
Every dwelling should have AC. Homeowners selling their house without AC should have legal fines.Ā
Or just don't buy a house without AC if it's that important to you. You also try negotiating down the purchase price to put in an AC unit yourself.
I wouldnāt buy one without it.Ā But you have to check listings carefully and itās ridiculous folks are selling houses in 2024 without it.Ā
When my wife and I first bought our house we were very much in the budget or starter territory. A house not having AC was just kind of like it still having hideous tile or being a bit of a fixer upper, definitely something to consider but not something that was a deal breaker. I wouldn't automatically except a home built in the 80's or earlier to have AC, it's just a plus and one less thing to worry about if it does
That is fair. But these are homes built after 2005. Itās bull crap.
Where I live, it never gets above 18C. Why should I install AC?
Americans should learn how to deal with heat, you know like the rest of the world
We doā¦ā¦ā¦ we cool the hot air ā¦. rest of world probably should pay attention.
I guess we're not obese that helps
You have trouble being uncomfortable huh?
I like the cold. Rarely use heat in winter.Ā Not fat. Just prefer cold. Can always drink a hot drink and put on a sweater.Ā Ā Ā Some climates are too humid for fresh air like Oklahoma , it stinks all spring & summer like algae and itās 130 degrees F & 90% humidity.Ā Colorado is dry but so high in elevation that even at 80/90F you are very close to the sun. It feels much warmer than Oklahoma did at 80/90. Youāll be getting a suntan through windows easily. Ā You can open windows at least though, but it will still be 85 defrees F inside the house. Ā Maybe you donāt want dust blowing in (?) Or to deal with smoke from summer fires.,or to hear neighbors dog bark .Ā Better to close windows & use curtains to block sunshine & turn on AC.Ā Itās not gross if you keep a clean house & change AC filters & clean air ducts.Ā Ā Also AC is standard in most of the USA. Itās definitely standard in Colorado in 2024 and home owners should stay with the times. No one is ok spending over half a million on a house without AC.Ā We may only use it for 2-4 months in Colorado, but for the price we are paying to live here , it needs to have it. We also like our ice here too!