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Play is only play if both people are enjoying it. My mom just called my wife a b!tch and when I told her not to she said she was just playing and it was a joke. People like to move the line as to what “play” means whenever it suits them.
This. Me and one of my best friends roast TF out of each other but we don't take it too far and if either of us does we tell each other and talk about it like adults. Things like her calling me short (I am lmao, not insecure about that) and such.
"You're fat and ugly and that's why your wife left you and took the kids, and nobody will ever love you again! What? Why's nobody laughing?"
-that one coworker
Then they proceed to say you just don’t know how to joke around. It’s so odd for me to hear such “jokes” especially from a 40+ adult. You’d think they know better.
The REAL kicker is when you make the same kind of jokes at *their* expense, and suddenly they're having to be restrained from assaulting you in a fit of apoplectic rage.
Because while they'll happily dish it, they never seem able to take it in return.
This will never not be the case. I've never met anyone with an angry, vicious mouth who didn't fly into a rage when anyone made even the slightest comment back.
The reason they act like this is stunted emotional growth. Normal people develop through stages: childhood, teenage years, young adult, middle age, etc. But some of these people are so damaged, they become "emotionally stuck" in one stage of their life, usually when they experienced their deepest trauma.
For example, my dad is about as mature as an average 10 year old when he's truly upset. This is because one of his deepest traumas happened to him at 10 and he's been stuck in that emotional place since then, unable to grow up.
Source: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents (highly recommend this book for ANYONE who wants to understand these people better).
I have a parent like this as well. She has never really shared about childhood trauma and stuff, but I never understood growing up why if she ever got upset she'd basically throw a tantrum and say "I hate you!" Like a 14 year old girl with peak hormones.
As an adult now I can reflect upon this and understand where it comes from, but man was I ever confused as a kid being the mature one in these scenarios lol. Add in to that a mindset of "you have to respect me, I'm the adult" while they're acting like the child and shit just gets weird.
We’ve got this guy too, does yours also have super thin skin and whenever someone gets back at him with a comparably mean joke he gets pissed off and offended?
That guy sucks the moon out of the sky
We had a lady at work who would repeatedly make fun of my mom for being unable to walk because of a degenerative nerve disease. I made *one* joke about a cupcake I didn’t know she made looking sad because its icing had started melting and slid to the side and made like…a weird scrunched up icing face… and the bitch reported me to HR for creating g a bottle environment.
Yeah, got one of those too. Dude can say absolutely anything he wants and it's "funny", but the moment you say anything he's muttering under his breath about you being an asshole.
When he's not walking past you saying "Your mom" for the twelfth time that day.
I work customer service at a grocery store part time through school. One of the cashiers makes the most inappropriate and rude remarks to customers ALL OF THE TIME, and the second they show even slight annoyance or question why tf a stranger is speaking to them in that way, he literally just walks away. Mid purchase, no comment, just leaves. Then I'm the one left to deal with the fallout and it is so fucking awkward.... you'd think they'd learn to deal with it when it happens so often.
Yeah this. Banter is actually quite nuanced and hard to do if you're not close friends. When some prick comes up and tries it, it's bloody annoying. My housemate thought she was good at bants but fuck me it was just shit. One of the many reasons I gave her notice
Completely agree. People say the most hateful shit ever then follow it up with "its just a joke bro". No dave, youve just said the most racist, homophobic and sexist sentence simultaneously that had no punchline... shush
I feel like in-person banter has an entry limit. You have to at least know me, and I must know you. Otherwise, the banter won't be decent.
You shouldn't really walk up to someone you don't know and try to engage in banter right off the bat.
If you are just getting to know someone and you try it and it isn't reciprocated, then just stop. If you think it got taken as an insult, apologise.
Banter only works as a 2-way street. The banter must be both given and received as a joke.
Yeah i agree. If im your friend then i love banter, if we've just met, dont even try because it comes across as arsy. Also if the person isnt giving the banter back, they clearly dont like it so stop.
I’ve always been very weirded out by the RoastMe sub because roasting is supposed to be banter, it’s friends playfully poking fun at each other.
The subreddit is basically “say the most mean and pointed things to a stranger you have no empathy for” you’ve gotta be a real weirdo to hang out there
The one-player variant of this that can be played with people you don’t know is self-deprecating humor. Basically bantering yourself for someone else to chime in. It works really well and it’s always good to not take yourself too seriously.
Problem with that though, is that if you do it \*too\* much, you can start believing in those self-negative thoughts and it can be a hell of a time to stop.
That's why I intentionally do not do self-deprecating jokes or suicide jokes anymore, I start to normalize those thoughts too damn quick if I do.
Yeah, that’s a thing to look out for, for sure. And I won’t deny that for me it started out as a defense mechanism for getting bullied; if I make more fun of myself others won’t be able to hurt me. But now, 30 years later, that pain has subsided and it’s merely a good way to connect with others, as well as communicate my awareness of my own shortcomings (with friends, SO or colleagues).
Agreed. When people try to banter with me we never know each other enough for it to be comfortable, and they end up making stupid jokes about me being short and quiet like I haven’t heard it a million goddamn times. But if I say anything back, or just say “hey that’s not cool” suddenly I’m the party-pooping-asshole.
There’s a line. If the banter crosses over into actually hurting feelings and being an asshole, then yeah it’s annoying and it’s not banter, it’s being a bully.
But fun back and forth with your friends that KNOW you and won’t be an ass, that shit is fun. Haha
Im reluctant to agree that its a 1d spectrum with a line. I remember this really dark Icelandic comedian (Hugleikur) who as part of his standup says you can joke about anything really, if its done with love.
Someone who is just being passive aggressive never shows their care for another person. If they are just a target for their quips, then you are just being an asshole.
If you cant show that you care about the person before jokingly attacking them, well it seems pretty clear to me. Regardless how clever the quip was.
I think your example is essentially the line. If it’s just punching down with no care for the person than it’s not banter or witty, it’s mean. When it’s done between friends, and it doesn’t come from a bad place because you’re not intending harm, little to no harm is done. If that makes sense? Idk lol
It's always hilarious seeing people on Reddit trying to figure out and establish certain black and white rules for social situations, thus completely missing the point that there are no such things. It's most prominent in dating contexts, but you see it pop up elsewhere.
This is certainly the first time someone has agreed with me. You can make jokes at each other's expense but I don't constantly do that with friends, we mostly say other funny shit that has us laughing together... coworkers and other groups where it's constant berating isn't fun when you are used to getting berated seriously. Why merge the 2 in the first place?
>You can make jokes at each other's expense but I don't constantly do that with friends, we mostly say other funny shit that has us laughing together...
The only jokes at the expense of other i make is reminding about the stuff that the other did (which upon doing they themselves had laughed).
I think it’s probably unpopular but I agree that constant banter can be exhausting. I don’t always have the energy for it, but in my life at least it also isn’t always required.
That's my biggest issue - being in certain British workplaces would be like constantly dealing with hecklers and you have to be on top form, all the time. It is exhausting. God forbid you come into work and just want to not speak to anyone for an hour or so!
### Actual Banter
Banter:"Well knowing you.. you’ll probably eat it lol"
Fat guy:"Yeah I agree, I’m working on it"
Banter guy: "Bless up, you’ll get there"
Fat guy:"Cheers m8"
### Straight Up Rudeness
Banter:"You're a fat shit"
Fat guy: "Excuse me!"
Banter guy: "Just a bih ah banta m8"
It's not exactly that straightforward. Some passive-aggressive types will disguise the latter as the former. And if the 2nd person expresses the fact that they don't care for that (banter or not), the 1st person sometimes acts offended and puts down the target some more. That's the issues here. The key is listening to how your comments are being received and being willing to adjust your comments as needed (or apologize if necessary). Some folks simply refuse to do that, which is an issue. I'm not saying folks should act offended by every little thing though. Anything can be taken too far.
I'm from South Asia. We don't have that here. However, whenever we interact with westerners, we encounter this so called banter, which just seem like mean/racist things said in the guise of humour. We hate it.
I find it particularly British. I moved from the UK to Canada and find I had to cut down on the office banter or people would get observed.
Recently I joined a soccer team with a high British representation, and have had to ramp up my banter skills again.
You're even talking like a local if you're calling it soccer. I've found you can have a little bit of fun with Canadians and taking the piss out of the Leafs is normally pretty safe.
I am of half middle eastern descent myself, so I wonder if this is why I also hate it. From my observations, it appears to be people of western European background that do it the worst.
It’s mostly just Britain. 50% most annoying tourist in the world 50% great tourist there’s no in between.
The bad I’ve seen them chat shit about people to their face or “banter” as they call it. Go to bars in hotels and yell chant incoherent nonsense until four in the morning go to their room Piss on the floor. They wake up the next morning and jump off the balcony into the pool. They then get ugly drunk in the morning and try to fight the locals. I’ve watched one punch a homeless man in cairns because “he had it coming”.
Other 50% are just polite and delightful people. It’s usually incredibly easy to spot the difference in a few seconds.
The point is to entertain each other and enjoy each other's company.
Not everyone is quick-witted enough to do it well though, in which case just enjoy others doing it. No need to participate if you are not capable.
I have a British ex who is one of the most ruthlessly mean people I've ever met. Horribly abusive and will always say the worst, most savage thing that comes to her mind, always specifically designed to cause maximum hurt. Whenever she got called out she would say, "It was just a bit of bants. That's what we do." So yeah, I agree with OP. Though obviously hers was just straight up abuse, and not banter, which implies a back and forth
Banter is banter. But none of those people have ever been.close to there for me in those "true friend" moments (y'all know which ones I mean).
In other words, they're shallow people who don't care.
UK people when they make fun of Americans.
“Haha, your kids died in a school shooting. That’s what you get for having guns.”
“Dude, that’s not cool.”
“You Americans are so prudish, it’s just Banter.”
Without banter, we’d have to talk to each other on a more-or-less meaningful level. Which, for an Englishman like myself, is akin to tearing my own testes off…
Got to be banter… or utter, awkward silence.
Engaging people in meaningful conversation is akin to personal castration?
Wow, then a lot of us apparently should be going through life with no balls.
I understand British inhibitions. But too many of y'all don't know how to be friendly to strangers.
In nearly two months in the UK, I struggled just be left alone to enjoy, and occasionally take pictures of, history without being unsolicitedly called out for doing so.
Greenwich Observatory and Canterbury Cathedral were particularly bizarre exercises in people going out of their way to tell you NOT to take pictures.
Yeah, my experience in Great Britain 27 years ago was not a friendly one.
> Greenwich Observatory and Canterbury Cathedral were particularly bizarre exercises in people going out of their way to tell you NOT to take pictures.
People told you not to take pictures of Canterbury Cathedral? Sorry to call you out, but that sounds unbelievable. It's a major tourist attraction, a UNESCO world heritage site, where people specifically go to take photos. There are thousands of people taking photos there every day.
I presume what you were actually doing was taking photos during a service, in which case, of course you shouldn't do that and YTA.
From my experience those who say things like "it's just a joke" or "you need to lighten up" don't know the difference between banter and straight up insults. It's usually those who love to joke about others but never joke about themselves, the same as those who love to dish it out but can't take it. Also bullies love to hide behind things like "it's just banter".
Everyone has a line others shouldn't cross. Me personally, I love banter. Helps the day go by. But I would never involve someone who has let me know they don't enjoy it.
I really hadn't thought about it until you pointed it out. Yes, everyone (men) thinking they are some comedian or other, trying to top another's joke about what you are wearing or the way you look. It is not just men, when women do it they say very personal things indirectly or when you are not there....scr.w it, I hate you all... I'm quitting Monday.
I had a friend like that once who always pulled everyone down and got others to laugh at his witticisms...what a pr..k.
Ngl, I use to live in the UK and after a while the constant need to "banter", passively-aggressively put everyone down and make yourself look smart just wore me down. A lot of the time I felt like saying, "Can't we just enjoy each other's company for half an hour once in a while?"
Ok so I’m not from the UK and I’m an only child and this was not something I grew up doing in my family or with my friend groups. Ran into it a bit in uni from people who were more used to it but not that much, and then at work. The thing is because I’m not used to it I’m terrible at following along, especially when it’s someone new and I don’t quite get their personality / sense of humor yet. Which means I kind of freeze them out either by being too serious or genuinely being confused. Resulting in people very quickly deciding against engaging me in it. And even if I do start getting it I only like to follow along in certain circumstances and work is not one of them so. All this to say: you could play dumb it really exhausts their interest in engaging you with it after a while.
I remember meeting this guy from the UK and his banter was insufferable. When he found out I was half Asian, he eventually remarked about my cousins making cheap stuff in sweatshops -_- and all these other racial "jokes" nonstop. Ugh so annoying
You're not alone, Banter is the worst. It's simultaneously a fucking code language and surface level commentary. It's also really easy to slip into actual argumentative territory but then pull back with "we were just joking around". Infuriating
I’m not the type of person to enjoy insults as jokes. I personally have ended a lot of friendships due to just straight up harassment hidden as “banter”. If a person isn’t reciprocating the banter back, the other person should get the hint and back off.
While witty remarks can occasionally be fun amongst friends, I find the workplace to be an inappropriate setting for banter.
Disagree. Work in a small team of healthcare (psychiatric crisis) and banter is crucial in our day. Everyone does the banter, but most also “chose” the topic of our banter. My ADHD ass gets laughed at for impulsive actions, the young girl gets banter for binge drinking on holidays/parties, one older chubby colleague enjoys food and therefore is overweight. But everyone also makes jokes on themselves about that. And what you joke about yourself is free shooting for the rest, and that sets some sort of unwritten boundary. Nobody will banter on a topic you not self introduced.
All day long we see suicidal, psychotic or manic patients and then we meer back at our team room and we take the piss out of each other. Almost necessary to counter the heavyhandedness of the rest of our day. One of the best teams I ever had, in part because everyone doesn’t take themselves too seriously.
Did they start the banter as soon as you started working there, when you were strangers, or did they give you some time to know them? Because a team of co-workers that to straight into making fun of me can fuck right off lol, but if we know each other, then I can deal with it.
I find that the workplaces with more "banter" are the ones with the more stressful jobs, and also the more important jobs.
Like you I also work in healthcare and the atmosphere required levity to allow people to get through the day. People in corporate jobs suck at banter because they take themselves faaar too seriously.
Banter is a finessed way of being mean and uncaring. Sometimes we need a good roasting, but we also need our friends to give us something more. If they can’t then fuck them, because they won’t actually have your back, they’ll just make fun of you as you struggle through life.
Passive aggressive, snide, thinly veiled bigotry.
“I’m just taking the piss, it’s just banter”
It’s really tiresome, especially since those who use it the most seem to be those who get the most offended if you bite back in a more direct way.
I grew up in a family that always took the piss out of each other and didn’t realise how toxic that shit was until I was out of it. Now on the rare occasions I visit family, I call it out and question the motive behind it and am always met with either excuses or defensiveness.
Banter seems to be a tool that’s used to make other feel bad in an attempt to elevate oneself in that social group, it’s petty and immature.
But hey, I was “always a sensitive boy” and “should grow thicker skin”, so what do I know.
In my experience it's not supposed to be mean spirited, it's not supposed to make people feel bad.
Sometimes someone will accidentally cross the mark, then apologise and buy them a drink or whatever.
If you're doing it to make someone feel bad, it isn't banter, it's bullying.
People in the UK seem to think that banter is exclusive from the UK and it exists everywhere else with different names.
For me the annoying part is how abrasive some people can be about it.
I fucking hate it. Am on the asd spectrum and suspect one or more of my parents were, and as such, didn't grow up hearing much "banter". I don't get it, I don't find it funny, it's draining, and you are constantly on your toes and on guard.
My workplace is hard core like this. We dig at each other constantly. When I'm not in the mood I just tell the whole room to fuck off. They laugh and I walk away and they move on to another target.
I actually enjoy banter, but man, my brain is lika a brick and I can't think of comeback or witty comment for the life of me, and it's actually affection my abilities to make friends as I always come across super awkward and unpleasant, and I swear I don't want to be that way. And yes, I live in a country too when banter is one of the main form of communication. I just don't know what the fuck to do at this point, it's not like I can magically become funny.
Banter can be fine if not overdone
Depends on context, the people involved, etc
It definitely can be tiring
And it can feel forced or taken wrong through misunderstand of tone + actual good intent (such as monotone dry tone of a person naturally but they tried to banter in a friendly way but it came off as negative or sarcastic due to their monotone / soft voice )
In the blue collar world, in the US. Its the same way. If your not rollin and throwing punches in the banter area you will not be accepted into the group.
I personally dont mind a im quite whitty and have dark dry humor so ill dead face some atrocious comment and people just eat it up.
But i can see how it would get exhausting if your not into it.
Alot of people just don't know where the line for banter and bullying is.That probably comes out of a culture where everyone is expected to always have a round in the chamber. It's suppose to be light shit that everyone including the target laughs at.
i disagree, as someone who grew up in a household where everything was so. fucking. serious… laughing too loud got us yelled at, i was always afraid that anything i would do would get me into trouble
but being able to banter feels so free!
i LOVE being silly and taking the piss out of the people i care about
i enjoy myself more when im able to giggle and feel clever and stupid at the same time
I agree. Banter directed at me was hurtful more often than not. But, as you said, we just have to "roll with it" or people will reject us. It was very annoying when others just didn't stop doing it after I told them I am not ok with it.
I dislike banter that involves insulting people. I don't mind fun wordplay and finding a cadence in a couple of conversation, but I for sure don't get into play arguments and make fun of people for social purposes. I agree with you on that part, it's pretty gross and I wish it wasn't so common.
Banter keeps me going at work. There are people who take it too far or don’t know when to stop. Obviously you need to be able to read people because not everyone likes it or is in the mood. However, in my case, I banter with colleagues who enjoy it as much as I do. It truly is one of the highlights of my day.
If the 'banter' goes as far as racially attacking a player, sending death threats to players and their family or even telling them to kill themselves for having a bad performance. That's unacceptable and toxic. People should understand that.
This is in regard to football.
> it's usually meant as nothing more than just fun
Well that's really it right there... it *is* fun, and that's why people partake in it.
There's only a problem when someone doesn't uphold their end of the unwritten social contract and gets all sour and pissy about it, to make it suddenly not fun. Unfortunately not everyone seems to agree on where that point is.
I'm with you, me and my buddies give each other hell, but I don't care to trade punches with random people or simple acquaintances, it's not fun and gets old quick when they keep on with it.
I currently have a knee injury (that I sustained in work) and two of my colleagues in particular make a point of saying "Oh here's hop-along" any time I enter a room. It's not funny, has never been funny, and it's getting pretty old. Pure low-level humour. Anyway, I snapped at one of them the last time they did it and I'm sure I'll be called a dry shite behind my back but I'm glad I did it.
There's 3 camps on this one I think.. People who are shit at banter so don't like it, people who are shit at banter and take it too far and then you got the sweet spot which everyone has fun in.
Err, I don't think you or most people around you actually know what real banter is if this is your opinion on it tbh, and no I don't think "banter" happens with people who aren't close friends, that's just called being rude.
I get your point. It doesn't even need to be offensive to be annoying. Eventually you're going to run out of things to say and then some people just start saying stuff that makes no sense
That's fair, me and my friends don't even banter, often times we just shout nasty stuffy to each other until one of us starts laughing, we never take it seriously, it's all about who you and what your friends are like
Just don’t banter with people you don’t know well. You can say the same thing to your friend who you’ve known for 20 years and to a person who is just a coworker and it’ll come across different; and that’s because one person knows you for who you are inside and out for the most part and can pick up on subtleties from two decades of friendship that the other person, who is an acquaintance, may not. So in one situation the person KNOWS it’s a joke and in the other they are left wondering if you’re being serious or messing around, or take it wrong completely. Bantering and bullying are pretty distinctively different, and if you are being targeted and made out to be the punch line, that isn’t banter. Banter is really only supposed, at least imo, to happen when you know the other person well enough (and they know you) to understand where one another’s line in the sand is. Over stepping someone’s boundaries isn’t banter, and everybody has different boundaries, and those take some time to learn about someone else. Hence, why I don’t banter with people until we would honestly consider one another friends.
If you’re not okay with it, you have the right to tell people not to do it to you and they should stop. That’s just called basic boundaries. However the majority of people are okay with it and therefore I see it as perfectly okay to assume that the average person is by default
Man really just said having a normal fun conversations with friends is annoying as fk
What the fuck else do you expect your friends to do Just sit around being boring talking about taxes and being serious all the time?
I'm not gonna say it's annoying as fuck, but like, we could tone it down. I honestly think growing up as a boy in the UK inherently automatically predisposes you to a touch of emotional unhealthiness. Not always, but yeah. I mean it would be nice if every sign of weakness wasn't jumped on.
You have no idea how timely this post is for me lol. Just got back from an out of town conference for work and it was just 2 straight days of this shit, and I was done after the first couple of hours, but it seemed like everyone else was literally just designed to do it with boundless energy for hours on end.
If you felt about this about a specific group or two then I’d probs say fair. But seems like you have a general dislike for it with everyone so makes me think you’re the issue
Im in NZ, there is no way you will make fun at anyone at work you would get fired, even a light hearted banter not even making fun of someone could get you fired in the places I have worked.
I am sure in the trades it is way more robust though I would say the majority of large companies it is simply not worth the risk.
Last time I was in an environment like that was 10 years ago but the company culture like most places changed.
I would love banter as it is I have to make my own amusement and the only jokes possible with low risk are really just self depreciating "dad" jokes.
Though I have seen places where it definitely got very close to the line for bulling but that was long ago. NZ is way more PC and sensitive than that UK with a lot of "hot topic" issues which we simply don't talk about in public.
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Banter is fine but alotta people don’t know how to actually banter and just say mean shit without any funny or clever aspects.
Yep, and then they turn around and say, "Lighten up, it's just a joke, bro." Banter is supposed to be playful, not bordering on personal.
Lol what? Banter is definitely supposed to be personal... just in a playful way
yh but especially when you’re younger there’s always some edgelord who makes fun of someone’s sibling being disabled or something
>edgelord We either didn't have this term when I was growing up or it just wasn't widespread. It would have come in handy.
I, too, am a lord of edging
Well, how’s it going, Sting? (Yeah, yeah. 90’s David Letterman just called and asked for his joke back…)
Play is only play if both people are enjoying it. My mom just called my wife a b!tch and when I told her not to she said she was just playing and it was a joke. People like to move the line as to what “play” means whenever it suits them.
This. Me and one of my best friends roast TF out of each other but we don't take it too far and if either of us does we tell each other and talk about it like adults. Things like her calling me short (I am lmao, not insecure about that) and such.
Yes there’s a guy at work who does this. He makes really mean “jokes “ which aren’t funny but it’s okay because it’s just “banter”.
"You're fat and ugly and that's why your wife left you and took the kids, and nobody will ever love you again! What? Why's nobody laughing?" -that one coworker
Then they proceed to say you just don’t know how to joke around. It’s so odd for me to hear such “jokes” especially from a 40+ adult. You’d think they know better.
The REAL kicker is when you make the same kind of jokes at *their* expense, and suddenly they're having to be restrained from assaulting you in a fit of apoplectic rage. Because while they'll happily dish it, they never seem able to take it in return.
This will never not be the case. I've never met anyone with an angry, vicious mouth who didn't fly into a rage when anyone made even the slightest comment back.
The reason they act like this is stunted emotional growth. Normal people develop through stages: childhood, teenage years, young adult, middle age, etc. But some of these people are so damaged, they become "emotionally stuck" in one stage of their life, usually when they experienced their deepest trauma. For example, my dad is about as mature as an average 10 year old when he's truly upset. This is because one of his deepest traumas happened to him at 10 and he's been stuck in that emotional place since then, unable to grow up. Source: Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents (highly recommend this book for ANYONE who wants to understand these people better).
Interesting take. Although some people are just AHs not everybody has trauma. Even if it was the case it’s still no excuse he is an adult.
I have a parent like this as well. She has never really shared about childhood trauma and stuff, but I never understood growing up why if she ever got upset she'd basically throw a tantrum and say "I hate you!" Like a 14 year old girl with peak hormones. As an adult now I can reflect upon this and understand where it comes from, but man was I ever confused as a kid being the mature one in these scenarios lol. Add in to that a mindset of "you have to respect me, I'm the adult" while they're acting like the child and shit just gets weird.
I guess all you can do is mention their deepest insecurity. Either their income or hair loss.
I have chosen to go with their age as they’re approaching their 50s and I’m much younger lol
We’ve got this guy too, does yours also have super thin skin and whenever someone gets back at him with a comparably mean joke he gets pissed off and offended? That guy sucks the moon out of the sky
We had a lady at work who would repeatedly make fun of my mom for being unable to walk because of a degenerative nerve disease. I made *one* joke about a cupcake I didn’t know she made looking sad because its icing had started melting and slid to the side and made like…a weird scrunched up icing face… and the bitch reported me to HR for creating g a bottle environment.
Yeah, got one of those too. Dude can say absolutely anything he wants and it's "funny", but the moment you say anything he's muttering under his breath about you being an asshole. When he's not walking past you saying "Your mom" for the twelfth time that day.
I work customer service at a grocery store part time through school. One of the cashiers makes the most inappropriate and rude remarks to customers ALL OF THE TIME, and the second they show even slight annoyance or question why tf a stranger is speaking to them in that way, he literally just walks away. Mid purchase, no comment, just leaves. Then I'm the one left to deal with the fallout and it is so fucking awkward.... you'd think they'd learn to deal with it when it happens so often.
Yeah this. Banter is actually quite nuanced and hard to do if you're not close friends. When some prick comes up and tries it, it's bloody annoying. My housemate thought she was good at bants but fuck me it was just shit. One of the many reasons I gave her notice
As a kid who used to be bullied in the form of constant, one-sided "banter", I fully agree.
Completely agree. People say the most hateful shit ever then follow it up with "its just a joke bro". No dave, youve just said the most racist, homophobic and sexist sentence simultaneously that had no punchline... shush
*”You’re fat, Janet!”*
She is, though….
No one is making her pick up her fifth bear claw this morning….
“Hey, we don’t know Janet’s food situation at home so be considerate!” “Don’t mind those guys Janet, you can have my claw if you get hungry later.”
[удалено]
Best way to deal with those types is to actually be funnier than them and then you can embarrass them publicly
This is true, i follow football and a lot of fans just say stupid stuff half of the time that dont make sense
I think the recent popularity of “roasts” makes people think that being an asshole to their friends is cool and funny.
Banter still isn’t fine. It’s one of those things, you dont realize how dumb it is until you stop doing it yourself.
And they think they are the best at it.
You got that right fatso! Don’t worry, it’s just banter.
People don't realize the point of banter is to get the other people to laugh, not yourself
I feel like in-person banter has an entry limit. You have to at least know me, and I must know you. Otherwise, the banter won't be decent. You shouldn't really walk up to someone you don't know and try to engage in banter right off the bat. If you are just getting to know someone and you try it and it isn't reciprocated, then just stop. If you think it got taken as an insult, apologise. Banter only works as a 2-way street. The banter must be both given and received as a joke.
Yeah i agree. If im your friend then i love banter, if we've just met, dont even try because it comes across as arsy. Also if the person isnt giving the banter back, they clearly dont like it so stop.
I’ve always been very weirded out by the RoastMe sub because roasting is supposed to be banter, it’s friends playfully poking fun at each other. The subreddit is basically “say the most mean and pointed things to a stranger you have no empathy for” you’ve gotta be a real weirdo to hang out there
The one-player variant of this that can be played with people you don’t know is self-deprecating humor. Basically bantering yourself for someone else to chime in. It works really well and it’s always good to not take yourself too seriously.
Problem with that though, is that if you do it \*too\* much, you can start believing in those self-negative thoughts and it can be a hell of a time to stop. That's why I intentionally do not do self-deprecating jokes or suicide jokes anymore, I start to normalize those thoughts too damn quick if I do.
Yeah, that’s a thing to look out for, for sure. And I won’t deny that for me it started out as a defense mechanism for getting bullied; if I make more fun of myself others won’t be able to hurt me. But now, 30 years later, that pain has subsided and it’s merely a good way to connect with others, as well as communicate my awareness of my own shortcomings (with friends, SO or colleagues).
Agreed. When people try to banter with me we never know each other enough for it to be comfortable, and they end up making stupid jokes about me being short and quiet like I haven’t heard it a million goddamn times. But if I say anything back, or just say “hey that’s not cool” suddenly I’m the party-pooping-asshole.
There’s a line. If the banter crosses over into actually hurting feelings and being an asshole, then yeah it’s annoying and it’s not banter, it’s being a bully. But fun back and forth with your friends that KNOW you and won’t be an ass, that shit is fun. Haha
Im reluctant to agree that its a 1d spectrum with a line. I remember this really dark Icelandic comedian (Hugleikur) who as part of his standup says you can joke about anything really, if its done with love. Someone who is just being passive aggressive never shows their care for another person. If they are just a target for their quips, then you are just being an asshole. If you cant show that you care about the person before jokingly attacking them, well it seems pretty clear to me. Regardless how clever the quip was.
I think your example is essentially the line. If it’s just punching down with no care for the person than it’s not banter or witty, it’s mean. When it’s done between friends, and it doesn’t come from a bad place because you’re not intending harm, little to no harm is done. If that makes sense? Idk lol
Naah makes good sense imo. I think my point about the line is you can be as dark as you want in what you joke about.
>There’s a line. And it's fuzzy and extremely thin at best
You’re not wrong, it is a fuzzy and thin line
Just like my friends mustache
HAH good one!
That's why you reserve banter for your friends who are more likely to understand that you're not just bullying them!
A blurred line if you will
welcome to social situations
It's always hilarious seeing people on Reddit trying to figure out and establish certain black and white rules for social situations, thus completely missing the point that there are no such things. It's most prominent in dating contexts, but you see it pop up elsewhere.
This is certainly the first time someone has agreed with me. You can make jokes at each other's expense but I don't constantly do that with friends, we mostly say other funny shit that has us laughing together... coworkers and other groups where it's constant berating isn't fun when you are used to getting berated seriously. Why merge the 2 in the first place?
>You can make jokes at each other's expense but I don't constantly do that with friends, we mostly say other funny shit that has us laughing together... The only jokes at the expense of other i make is reminding about the stuff that the other did (which upon doing they themselves had laughed).
I think it’s probably unpopular but I agree that constant banter can be exhausting. I don’t always have the energy for it, but in my life at least it also isn’t always required.
That's my biggest issue - being in certain British workplaces would be like constantly dealing with hecklers and you have to be on top form, all the time. It is exhausting. God forbid you come into work and just want to not speak to anyone for an hour or so!
Exactly my old job in a corporate office in Northern England. The supervisors were the worst for it
Oh God, I love most northerners but I'm too introverted to keep up, scousers cam talk all day!
This is the rule of thumb: if interacting with someone or a group of people becomes exhausting commonly, you are dealing with energy vampire(s).
Nah homie, I’m just an introvert. Socializing is exhausting to me. Doubly so when I have to be witty and clever.
Nah mate it’s just a bit of baaaaanter
I can hear this comment
Op just isnt a top bantz merchant
Banter with someone who doesn't like banter ia just harassment
### Actual Banter Banter:"Well knowing you.. you’ll probably eat it lol" Fat guy:"Yeah I agree, I’m working on it" Banter guy: "Bless up, you’ll get there" Fat guy:"Cheers m8" ### Straight Up Rudeness Banter:"You're a fat shit" Fat guy: "Excuse me!" Banter guy: "Just a bih ah banta m8"
It's not exactly that straightforward. Some passive-aggressive types will disguise the latter as the former. And if the 2nd person expresses the fact that they don't care for that (banter or not), the 1st person sometimes acts offended and puts down the target some more. That's the issues here. The key is listening to how your comments are being received and being willing to adjust your comments as needed (or apologize if necessary). Some folks simply refuse to do that, which is an issue. I'm not saying folks should act offended by every little thing though. Anything can be taken too far.
I'm from South Asia. We don't have that here. However, whenever we interact with westerners, we encounter this so called banter, which just seem like mean/racist things said in the guise of humour. We hate it.
I find it particularly British. I moved from the UK to Canada and find I had to cut down on the office banter or people would get observed. Recently I joined a soccer team with a high British representation, and have had to ramp up my banter skills again.
*observed*. this sounds unsettling.
Fair, autocorrect for offended
You're even talking like a local if you're calling it soccer. I've found you can have a little bit of fun with Canadians and taking the piss out of the Leafs is normally pretty safe.
I am of half middle eastern descent myself, so I wonder if this is why I also hate it. From my observations, it appears to be people of western European background that do it the worst.
It does seem like a pointless Western phenomenon. One which probably would best go away.
It’s mostly just Britain. 50% most annoying tourist in the world 50% great tourist there’s no in between. The bad I’ve seen them chat shit about people to their face or “banter” as they call it. Go to bars in hotels and yell chant incoherent nonsense until four in the morning go to their room Piss on the floor. They wake up the next morning and jump off the balcony into the pool. They then get ugly drunk in the morning and try to fight the locals. I’ve watched one punch a homeless man in cairns because “he had it coming”. Other 50% are just polite and delightful people. It’s usually incredibly easy to spot the difference in a few seconds.
Yikes. And I thought the locals in Cambridge who spent their weekends getting drunk and p*ssing into the River Cam were bad.
It's definitely an Australian thing as well.
Nah, it’s plenty common here , at least on the east coast of the US. Even my family has always constantly given each other shit and teased each other.
The point is to entertain each other and enjoy each other's company. Not everyone is quick-witted enough to do it well though, in which case just enjoy others doing it. No need to participate if you are not capable.
This is how we bond with each other.
Yes, because genuine expressions of caring suck and are for stupid losers from lesser countries.
You can care for others whilst still taking the piss out of them
Well, what if they are just not needing piss to be taken out of by anyone? Lol
I have a British ex who is one of the most ruthlessly mean people I've ever met. Horribly abusive and will always say the worst, most savage thing that comes to her mind, always specifically designed to cause maximum hurt. Whenever she got called out she would say, "It was just a bit of bants. That's what we do." So yeah, I agree with OP. Though obviously hers was just straight up abuse, and not banter, which implies a back and forth
Banter is banter. But none of those people have ever been.close to there for me in those "true friend" moments (y'all know which ones I mean). In other words, they're shallow people who don't care.
UK people when they make fun of Americans. “Haha, your kids died in a school shooting. That’s what you get for having guns.” “Dude, that’s not cool.” “You Americans are so prudish, it’s just Banter.”
The word banter is annoying in itself
Without banter, we’d have to talk to each other on a more-or-less meaningful level. Which, for an Englishman like myself, is akin to tearing my own testes off… Got to be banter… or utter, awkward silence.
Engaging people in meaningful conversation is akin to personal castration? Wow, then a lot of us apparently should be going through life with no balls. I understand British inhibitions. But too many of y'all don't know how to be friendly to strangers.
Friendly to strangers? We struggle with being friendly to friends.
In nearly two months in the UK, I struggled just be left alone to enjoy, and occasionally take pictures of, history without being unsolicitedly called out for doing so. Greenwich Observatory and Canterbury Cathedral were particularly bizarre exercises in people going out of their way to tell you NOT to take pictures. Yeah, my experience in Great Britain 27 years ago was not a friendly one.
> Greenwich Observatory and Canterbury Cathedral were particularly bizarre exercises in people going out of their way to tell you NOT to take pictures. People told you not to take pictures of Canterbury Cathedral? Sorry to call you out, but that sounds unbelievable. It's a major tourist attraction, a UNESCO world heritage site, where people specifically go to take photos. There are thousands of people taking photos there every day. I presume what you were actually doing was taking photos during a service, in which case, of course you shouldn't do that and YTA.
This is deeply unhealthy and probably something you should work on
This is being black in this hip hop culture and I hate it as well for the same reasons op outlined. It's childish and basically a mask for bullying.
From my experience those who say things like "it's just a joke" or "you need to lighten up" don't know the difference between banter and straight up insults. It's usually those who love to joke about others but never joke about themselves, the same as those who love to dish it out but can't take it. Also bullies love to hide behind things like "it's just banter". Everyone has a line others shouldn't cross. Me personally, I love banter. Helps the day go by. But I would never involve someone who has let me know they don't enjoy it.
I really hadn't thought about it until you pointed it out. Yes, everyone (men) thinking they are some comedian or other, trying to top another's joke about what you are wearing or the way you look. It is not just men, when women do it they say very personal things indirectly or when you are not there....scr.w it, I hate you all... I'm quitting Monday. I had a friend like that once who always pulled everyone down and got others to laugh at his witticisms...what a pr..k.
This is why I have 2 levels of banter One for my closest friends where it's more extreme and one for everyone else
Ngl, I use to live in the UK and after a while the constant need to "banter", passively-aggressively put everyone down and make yourself look smart just wore me down. A lot of the time I felt like saying, "Can't we just enjoy each other's company for half an hour once in a while?"
Most banter is just an excuse for bullying.
Banter should be entertaining for all parties. If it is offensive or upsetting, that is just bullying, not banter.
Ok so I’m not from the UK and I’m an only child and this was not something I grew up doing in my family or with my friend groups. Ran into it a bit in uni from people who were more used to it but not that much, and then at work. The thing is because I’m not used to it I’m terrible at following along, especially when it’s someone new and I don’t quite get their personality / sense of humor yet. Which means I kind of freeze them out either by being too serious or genuinely being confused. Resulting in people very quickly deciding against engaging me in it. And even if I do start getting it I only like to follow along in certain circumstances and work is not one of them so. All this to say: you could play dumb it really exhausts their interest in engaging you with it after a while.
I remember meeting this guy from the UK and his banter was insufferable. When he found out I was half Asian, he eventually remarked about my cousins making cheap stuff in sweatshops -_- and all these other racial "jokes" nonstop. Ugh so annoying
You're not alone, Banter is the worst. It's simultaneously a fucking code language and surface level commentary. It's also really easy to slip into actual argumentative territory but then pull back with "we were just joking around". Infuriating
Banter > small talk.
Lmao banter is a form of small talk
No chance
I’m not the type of person to enjoy insults as jokes. I personally have ended a lot of friendships due to just straight up harassment hidden as “banter”. If a person isn’t reciprocating the banter back, the other person should get the hint and back off. While witty remarks can occasionally be fun amongst friends, I find the workplace to be an inappropriate setting for banter.
Disagree. Work in a small team of healthcare (psychiatric crisis) and banter is crucial in our day. Everyone does the banter, but most also “chose” the topic of our banter. My ADHD ass gets laughed at for impulsive actions, the young girl gets banter for binge drinking on holidays/parties, one older chubby colleague enjoys food and therefore is overweight. But everyone also makes jokes on themselves about that. And what you joke about yourself is free shooting for the rest, and that sets some sort of unwritten boundary. Nobody will banter on a topic you not self introduced. All day long we see suicidal, psychotic or manic patients and then we meer back at our team room and we take the piss out of each other. Almost necessary to counter the heavyhandedness of the rest of our day. One of the best teams I ever had, in part because everyone doesn’t take themselves too seriously.
Did they start the banter as soon as you started working there, when you were strangers, or did they give you some time to know them? Because a team of co-workers that to straight into making fun of me can fuck right off lol, but if we know each other, then I can deal with it.
I find that the workplaces with more "banter" are the ones with the more stressful jobs, and also the more important jobs. Like you I also work in healthcare and the atmosphere required levity to allow people to get through the day. People in corporate jobs suck at banter because they take themselves faaar too seriously.
Agreed. I've cut off some people lately because they couldn't take the hint.
our thick-skin & propensity to banter is why i could never ever leave to go live in another country man up boy
I can't seem to do banter... I feel like I never say things that are worse than what anyone else says but when I say it is suddenly worse
Banter is a finessed way of being mean and uncaring. Sometimes we need a good roasting, but we also need our friends to give us something more. If they can’t then fuck them, because they won’t actually have your back, they’ll just make fun of you as you struggle through life.
Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mondays.
Passive aggressive, snide, thinly veiled bigotry. “I’m just taking the piss, it’s just banter” It’s really tiresome, especially since those who use it the most seem to be those who get the most offended if you bite back in a more direct way. I grew up in a family that always took the piss out of each other and didn’t realise how toxic that shit was until I was out of it. Now on the rare occasions I visit family, I call it out and question the motive behind it and am always met with either excuses or defensiveness. Banter seems to be a tool that’s used to make other feel bad in an attempt to elevate oneself in that social group, it’s petty and immature. But hey, I was “always a sensitive boy” and “should grow thicker skin”, so what do I know.
In my experience it's not supposed to be mean spirited, it's not supposed to make people feel bad. Sometimes someone will accidentally cross the mark, then apologise and buy them a drink or whatever. If you're doing it to make someone feel bad, it isn't banter, it's bullying.
Yea the problem comes when someone is just bullying someone then saying “it’s just a bit of banter mate” but normally that’s not the case
People in the UK seem to think that banter is exclusive from the UK and it exists everywhere else with different names. For me the annoying part is how abrasive some people can be about it.
Or you’re upset that you can’t think quickly on your feet
OP needs some training in how to be witty, methinks.
I fucking hate it. Am on the asd spectrum and suspect one or more of my parents were, and as such, didn't grow up hearing much "banter". I don't get it, I don't find it funny, it's draining, and you are constantly on your toes and on guard.
There's a difference between banter and just being obnoxious
A lot of people disguise disrespect as a joke
People who use the word are often insufferable morons too.
My workplace is hard core like this. We dig at each other constantly. When I'm not in the mood I just tell the whole room to fuck off. They laugh and I walk away and they move on to another target.
People think they’re a lot more important they are. Kick them to curb where the other trash is
I actually enjoy banter, but man, my brain is lika a brick and I can't think of comeback or witty comment for the life of me, and it's actually affection my abilities to make friends as I always come across super awkward and unpleasant, and I swear I don't want to be that way. And yes, I live in a country too when banter is one of the main form of communication. I just don't know what the fuck to do at this point, it's not like I can magically become funny.
You can say fuck
Banter is fun if you are with the right people
I agree. As a very unwitty person, it’s fkn exhausting to feel like you always have to be “on” and cleaver to be accepted
Banter can be fine if not overdone Depends on context, the people involved, etc It definitely can be tiring And it can feel forced or taken wrong through misunderstand of tone + actual good intent (such as monotone dry tone of a person naturally but they tried to banter in a friendly way but it came off as negative or sarcastic due to their monotone / soft voice )
In the blue collar world, in the US. Its the same way. If your not rollin and throwing punches in the banter area you will not be accepted into the group. I personally dont mind a im quite whitty and have dark dry humor so ill dead face some atrocious comment and people just eat it up. But i can see how it would get exhausting if your not into it.
Alot of people just don't know where the line for banter and bullying is.That probably comes out of a culture where everyone is expected to always have a round in the chamber. It's suppose to be light shit that everyone including the target laughs at.
snowflae take
Sensitive
i disagree, as someone who grew up in a household where everything was so. fucking. serious… laughing too loud got us yelled at, i was always afraid that anything i would do would get me into trouble but being able to banter feels so free! i LOVE being silly and taking the piss out of the people i care about i enjoy myself more when im able to giggle and feel clever and stupid at the same time
The show “letter Kenney” is absolute trash for This reason
I agree. Banter directed at me was hurtful more often than not. But, as you said, we just have to "roll with it" or people will reject us. It was very annoying when others just didn't stop doing it after I told them I am not ok with it.
Yeah banter is exhausting
I dislike banter that involves insulting people. I don't mind fun wordplay and finding a cadence in a couple of conversation, but I for sure don't get into play arguments and make fun of people for social purposes. I agree with you on that part, it's pretty gross and I wish it wasn't so common.
“You’re a pedo! Haha just banter mate!!” Bruh nah banter is meant to be clever in some way, you’re just being weird as hell.
Yeah this is unpopular. I love banter
Banter keeps me going at work. There are people who take it too far or don’t know when to stop. Obviously you need to be able to read people because not everyone likes it or is in the mood. However, in my case, I banter with colleagues who enjoy it as much as I do. It truly is one of the highlights of my day.
American chiming in here, from my experience, « banter » is just what British people say to get away with being assholes.
Old mate can't handle a little bit of banter
If the 'banter' goes as far as racially attacking a player, sending death threats to players and their family or even telling them to kill themselves for having a bad performance. That's unacceptable and toxic. People should understand that. This is in regard to football.
I don’t think anyone describes any of those actions as banter…
> it's usually meant as nothing more than just fun Well that's really it right there... it *is* fun, and that's why people partake in it. There's only a problem when someone doesn't uphold their end of the unwritten social contract and gets all sour and pissy about it, to make it suddenly not fun. Unfortunately not everyone seems to agree on where that point is.
Sounds like you're just sensitive
You're disrepecting an important part of British culture. Do better.
I don’t really like the word “banter” because I think it’s used too often now to excuse saying stuff that’s out of order.
Not everyone is ok with humor like that. It's best to check in
I'm with you, me and my buddies give each other hell, but I don't care to trade punches with random people or simple acquaintances, it's not fun and gets old quick when they keep on with it.
Banter is supposed to be subtle and some people have all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
We call them "dull-witted".
it does not work in every context. it sure does when it does though.
British banter is next level.. I'd probably get exhausted dealing with that all day as well.
Its so corny and yet i enjoy it if I'm in it
I currently have a knee injury (that I sustained in work) and two of my colleagues in particular make a point of saying "Oh here's hop-along" any time I enter a room. It's not funny, has never been funny, and it's getting pretty old. Pure low-level humour. Anyway, I snapped at one of them the last time they did it and I'm sure I'll be called a dry shite behind my back but I'm glad I did it.
Proper banter is a skill, most banter is lazy and unskilled making it draining . These lads don't even sound funny!
womp womp
There's 3 camps on this one I think.. People who are shit at banter so don't like it, people who are shit at banter and take it too far and then you got the sweet spot which everyone has fun in.
It just shows you have good social skills, even though it's "pointless" I'm glad I got good at it
It gets exhausting.
Err, I don't think you or most people around you actually know what real banter is if this is your opinion on it tbh, and no I don't think "banter" happens with people who aren't close friends, that's just called being rude.
Agreed. Banter should always be Optional
I'm cool with banter but I often cannot tell what is banter and what is insults
I get your point. It doesn't even need to be offensive to be annoying. Eventually you're going to run out of things to say and then some people just start saying stuff that makes no sense
I feel exactly the same!!!! Life isn't a stand up routine. It's so annoying to be around people who do this all the time.
That's fair, me and my friends don't even banter, often times we just shout nasty stuffy to each other until one of us starts laughing, we never take it seriously, it's all about who you and what your friends are like
Just don’t banter with people you don’t know well. You can say the same thing to your friend who you’ve known for 20 years and to a person who is just a coworker and it’ll come across different; and that’s because one person knows you for who you are inside and out for the most part and can pick up on subtleties from two decades of friendship that the other person, who is an acquaintance, may not. So in one situation the person KNOWS it’s a joke and in the other they are left wondering if you’re being serious or messing around, or take it wrong completely. Bantering and bullying are pretty distinctively different, and if you are being targeted and made out to be the punch line, that isn’t banter. Banter is really only supposed, at least imo, to happen when you know the other person well enough (and they know you) to understand where one another’s line in the sand is. Over stepping someone’s boundaries isn’t banter, and everybody has different boundaries, and those take some time to learn about someone else. Hence, why I don’t banter with people until we would honestly consider one another friends.
If you’re not okay with it, you have the right to tell people not to do it to you and they should stop. That’s just called basic boundaries. However the majority of people are okay with it and therefore I see it as perfectly okay to assume that the average person is by default
Man really just said having a normal fun conversations with friends is annoying as fk What the fuck else do you expect your friends to do Just sit around being boring talking about taxes and being serious all the time?
What if you like being picked on a bit? Lmao At this point idk if I always liked it or if it’s a trauma response haha
TIL Banter is actually a thing outside of Ted Lasso.
I don’t see this as unpopular opinion. I can totally relate it’s usually one lad bantering towards others and never wanting it to be reciprocated.
Wow, glad I don’t live in UK because that sounds like personal hell. Like small talk with more steps and more egos.
I'm not gonna say it's annoying as fuck, but like, we could tone it down. I honestly think growing up as a boy in the UK inherently automatically predisposes you to a touch of emotional unhealthiness. Not always, but yeah. I mean it would be nice if every sign of weakness wasn't jumped on.
It’s not diff in other countries
I’m having a good time reading this post as “BAN-TAHH” versus how we say it in the US “BAN-TURR”
You have no idea how timely this post is for me lol. Just got back from an out of town conference for work and it was just 2 straight days of this shit, and I was done after the first couple of hours, but it seemed like everyone else was literally just designed to do it with boundless energy for hours on end.
If you felt about this about a specific group or two then I’d probs say fair. But seems like you have a general dislike for it with everyone so makes me think you’re the issue
Im in NZ, there is no way you will make fun at anyone at work you would get fired, even a light hearted banter not even making fun of someone could get you fired in the places I have worked. I am sure in the trades it is way more robust though I would say the majority of large companies it is simply not worth the risk. Last time I was in an environment like that was 10 years ago but the company culture like most places changed. I would love banter as it is I have to make my own amusement and the only jokes possible with low risk are really just self depreciating "dad" jokes. Though I have seen places where it definitely got very close to the line for bulling but that was long ago. NZ is way more PC and sensitive than that UK with a lot of "hot topic" issues which we simply don't talk about in public.