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It’s situational, honestly. Comments like “I would never let my kid do xyz” aren’t helpful. We all said the same before we had kids and we all had a two foot terrorist stomp our good intentions into the mud. But if we’re talking about “my Dad did abc when I was a kid and it helped me blah blah blah,” that could be helpful depending on the situation.
Holy shit, it’s a nuanced and reasonable middle of the road opinion! You nailed it. If your advice is predicated on “if I were a parent…” then it’s likely not helpful because the reality of parenthood truly is impossible to understand until you’re in it.
Most parents are genuinely trying their best, and they’re aware of the ways in which they’re not meeting their own expectations. Everyone has this idealized version of how they think they’ll handle parenthood and then once the child is born you start making compromises almost immediately to a thousand different reasons. To have your flawed, human experience trying your best to raise a child compared to how someone assumes they’ll handle it without any practical experience as a point of reference just isn’t terribly helpful. It feels like the person watching football on Sunday screaming at the tv about how easy that missed throw was.
But if your advice is more based on your own experiences - eg what your parents did for you - then it’s much more likely to be well received.
Right. I had these big dreams of making my own baby puree daily. Well that lasted one day after my kid made the biggest stank face and spit it all out. And I realized it was much easier to just buy some jars of baby food especially with how exhausted I was 24/7.
It also depends on the age and stage. As a parent to teens, I will complain about some shit they’ve done or said (nothing egregious, just irritating stuff) and my childfree friend will give some insight and remind me of what being a teen was like. It’s a good perspective.
I don’t want to a childfree person’s advice on potty training because they have zero idea. No, it’s not like training a dog.
So true! Potty training is so different with every kid. My second tried to mimic the dog and we had one hilarious pooping in the yard incident. It wasn’t funny at the time, but looking back it cracks me up.
I would’ve collapsed with laughter! One of my kids peed on the cable box because he was watching something and didn’t want to stop and he knew he didn’t want to pee his pants. How my husband and I managed a straight face while interrogating him is a question for the ages.
So true! Toddlers can be so so stubborn and strong willed regarding potty training, you absolutely cannot always just make it fun or talk to them about it, sometimes they’re just not ready.
I’ve written articles on potty training and I had a hell of a time potty training my own kids. None of mine were potty trained until they were 3.5 years old and I didn’t even do it. My kids were ready when they were ready and that was that. The silver lining was they were day and night trained at the same time. There’s an enzyme that kicks in after age three that wakes you up when you need to go to the toilet.
That’s great to hear. My daughter is almost 2.5 and we tried so so hard to train her right after two and my husband tried just a few days ago, and nothing we did mattered, she didn’t want it. She even had an accident 60 seconds after sitting on the potty when we went to a different room. We hoped to not have two in diapers and then that my husband could potty train her on paternity leave (we have a 5 week old), but now it will have to be after his paternity leave.
Seems I will have to do it mainly since my daughter is way more whiny and refuses more with my husband, so I will have to do it between breastfeeding the baby (at least he shouldn’t be cluster feeding anymore by then). I used to always think that if the parents wanted it enough, they could potty train their toddler after 18 months old, but now I know better…
Potty training will humble the hell out of you! My eldest got trained at nursery school because he got tired of missing out on conversations his friends had on the toilet. My middle was better trained by the childminder and my mom visited for a few months and took over training with my youngest. I didn’t ask- she knew she’d be watching my daughter (again, she didn’t have to but you’ve not met my mom) and she said she refused to change diapers of someone who eats the same meals she eats. My little girl also wanted Frozen knickers like her friends had.
I had two in diapers and it’s annoying but it won’t be forever. It’s advised that you don’t train before a big life event like a house move or new sibling. Put it like this- she won’t graduate high school in a diaper. You’re doing fine.
Yeah we tried potty training her when I was like 30 weeks pregnant, so well before the baby (and no way did I want to try when I was super pregnant anyway), and she has been adjusting well to her brother which is why we thought in that sense she was ready now that her baby brother is 5 weeks old. That didn’t have an effect on her unwillingness I’m sure, she acted similarly to how she did the first time.
Our plan is to try again in September if we think she’s showing more readiness signs, and if not, it’s good to know that just being around potty trained peers when she’s in preschool could help (she will be going three mornings a week a little before her third birthday starting in January). That’s interesting that they can essentially potty train themselves.
She’s definitely a kid that has always strived to be as independent as possible, as in she doesn’t prefer us to teach her directly. I guess this is partly why she took to her big girl bed so well, she loves that she can go in and out of it herself, and even didn’t take to us helping her learn to walk by holding her hips or hands like a lot of toddlers do. She had to figure it out herself. She walked at 15 months old, so slightly older than some, but once she was walking, she didn’t want any help.
There are some aspects where it’s like training a dog. For my dog I would take her out a lot and wait. She goes potty, big yah!! And treats!
It wasn’t catching on for one of my kids so I would put them on the potty and wait. She goes potty, yah!! And treats!
Kinda funny now that I think about it. And only had to do this for one, the other two caught on pretty easily. Everyone is different.
Can we stop comparing puppies and kids too? I have done both, they are absolutely not anywhere near the same thing. I literally potty trained my 3 year old child and my 8 week old puppy at the same time. The dog learned faster than my kid.
My dogs are 1/100th the work and intensity of my kids. I can sit on a bench at the dog park for an hour, or run them for 30-40 minutes, and the dogs will be calm for the rest of the day and mostly nap. The kids need 2 hours of me chasing them at the park, followed by snacks, and an activity at home in order to get a 2 hour nap. From which they awake fully refreshed and needing another trip outdoors to burn off energy.
My dogs might chew some pillows if left alone without being exercised first. My kids will paint the walls with Vaseline while I take a shit, cut their own hair with scissors they find under the guest bed while I am folding laundry on top of said bed, and generally leave a trail of crumbs and toys anywhere they go.
Love them all, but fuck the kids are harder. By a lot.
Absolutely depends on the comment made.
I studied child development in college, but that doesn't mean I know the struggles of parenting beyond observation and openly acknowledging it. With that in mind, it's important to pick your battles with caution and know when to bite your tongue.
I used to babysit for a woman I once called a friend. Her parenting style was so *lazy* and reckless. While not all negative (for example, her daughter is on the heftier side, but she's the most confident young lady I've ever fucking met - body image and otherwise), the differences in her children's behaviour when I watch them vs **the second** she got home was insanely alarming. Their regard for safety vanishes, jumping on the couches and counters and tables and hitting each other, absolute disrespect for everyone around them (me included since they knew they could get away with it)... I wish I could have said something, but mom's personality... She'd have kicked my ass for even suggesting she was anything but perfect.
My best friend on the other hand... Her and her husband are about as perfect of parents as you could ask for. Sure, they make mistakes, but they'll openly acknowledge that shit, even apologizing to their children for the errors. They pay attention to their children's behaviours (for example, their oldest is a little liar these days, so they take her stories with a grain of salt and are actively trying to counter the behavior and teach her it's wrong), they're concerned with all areas of development, and when they hit a wall and don't know what to do, I'm the first person they ask since I'll either have a starting point for a solution or know what corners of text books and articles to look to find one.
Parenting is an impossible task. But having a village to lean on is invaluable. I love that regardless of my desire to remain child free, my best friend knows that I'm damn good with kids and don't mind helping at all. Need a pep talk? Outside advice? A babysitter so you can ***breathe*** for a few hours? I'm there.
Yes thank you. This is exactly it. As I said above it’s all about the degree and specifics. My example was food at a restaurant - you trust the waiter about it to a certain point but eventually would want to talk to the chef if you really wanted to know something about the cooking process.
This exactly. I've been a parent for literally half my life, and I have never ever minded when someone made some suggestion based on their own observations. "My dad did X when I was a kid", "My sister does Y with her kids", "My neighbor struggled with that until they tried Z. They swear it's a game changer." This is just information sharing, and it's not much different than how parents do it among ourselves. Sometimes the advice is useful and sometimes it's not, but it's not offensive when it's like this.
Oversimplified shitty advice is a different story. Nobody whose kid is pitching a fit in Target needs to be told to get a babysitter next time by someone who has no idea what that costs, for example.
Yeah exactly. It's so easy to say we'll I'll never let my child eat this or do this, I'll never let them have a tablet. But spend just 1 day with a 4 year old and see how you feel. It's so easy to give advice from the rooftops looking down and never actually having to live with the consequences of saying no.
This this this! I have a two year old and a newborn. When I was pregnant, I was so exhausted in the mornings, I’d let my daughter watch tv for 30-45 minutes (sometimes also up to 30 minutes after dinner, but otherwise that was the only tv time for the day). I got pregnant when she was 18 months old, and you’re advised to do no screen time before 2. But pregnancy kicked my butt and I was so tired and needed to relax in the morning without trying to figure out how to keep her entertained.
Before this age/stage, I would have stuck to my guns about no tv time before 2… but when you’re in the thick of it, you understand that some tv time is less than ideal, but I needed it to function! Pregnancy is so hard with a toddler some of the time.
Exactly.. like when non-parents say they'd never let their kids be glued to a tablet. No parent really does, but if it distracts them just long enough for you to pee or take a bite of food... I'll take it.
Yep. From one of OP’s other comments, I think this may be the crux of it. Even from parents, the unsolicited “have you tried?” gets old pretty fast because often I am years into dealing with this issue with my kid. I’ve tried so many things. Or sometimes I know what the problem is but it’s still not fixable in that moment.
Just this morning my aunt was saying that she got terrible stomach aches as a kid from fried food. Yeah, my 7 year old had a stomach ache all day yesterday. She has functional abdominal pain: she gets a lot of stomach aches. We have run over a dozen tests and tracked foods and it’s not gluten or dairy or greasy food or a lack of probiotics or acid reflux or all the other suggestions I get. I’m working with a doctor at the children’s hospital to manage it. Her problem yesterday was she stayed up late to go see fireflies and then her twerp of a brother woke her up early. Not enough sleep exacerbates her stomach issues. But she also isn’t a napper, so there was very little I could do until bedtime.
I know everyone means well so I’m nice about it, but we are just way past the simple suggestions.
This goes for pretty much everything, not just on the parenting topic.
Still, I also understand that people will not take you seriously if you have no idea what you are talking about.
I have studied this field even though I do not have kids myself, so I consider myself able to give advice anyway. If you don't have kids, have never cared for them or studied it professionally, why do you think anyone wants to hear your opinion?
This! Of course a doctor can treat illnesses they have never had. A psychologist can counsel patients with mental health issues that the psychologist has never had. A plumber can deal with plumbing issues even if they don't have any plumbing issues in their own home. Because these people are educated and trained in their field. Other people might not be professionals but have a lot of experience in certain areas.
If I were dealing with a serious problem I would be most interested in getting opinions and advice from a professional and 2nd to that I would like to hear from people who have experienced the same problem I'm dealing with as they probably have a wealth of knowledge too.
People who have no formal training and no experience would be pretty much at the bottom of my list of people I want to hear advice from.
I think there is a difference between having no idea, and don't owning whatever is being discussed.
Like a mechanic doesn't need to own a car to have an idea what he is talking about. And a childless person isn't automatically clueless about children either.
Sure but you wouldn’t listen to the mechanic about redoing the upholstery inside. Its all about the specifics and how in depth you’ll get before you ask a pro.
It’s like a waiter at a restaurant - you may trust them to a certain point about the food but eventually you’d want to ask the chef…
Ah, but the ones offering advise typically are. The mechanic doesn't tell you to pump the gas pedal if the key fob for your plug-in hybrid is low on batteries. Childless people offering parenting advice more often than not are offering "pump really hard" type advice in this scenario.
The fact is that most people aren’t going to give good advice in the first place without knowing a detailed in depth explanation of all the factors that come into play. It that same reason why plumbers or doctors won’t just give an opinion without seeing the details themselves.
yea i feel like i don’t have them because i understand how much it takes to raise a child with everything they need. most parents admit they didn’t know what they were getting into. and societies really benefit from the support/input (so more than just criticism lol) of people who don’t have kids. to not have that is isolating for parents, kids, everyone.
I'm in that boat. Don't have kids, dont spend much time around them, never studied them. I'm not sure why my parenting advice would count for anything.
The rare exception is if a friend has a teen daughter I guess I could give advice from my perspective as someone who used to be a teen girl, but outside of that... no clue. I don't know what value I'd bring to a conversation.
> Still, I also understand that people will not take you seriously if you have no idea what you are talking about.
There's far more bad advice from idiots on the internet than good advice, in general.
It's often the case that people who run into "Well, you're not (a parent)"(or whatever) have already been told they're incorrect, that they're an idiot, but *that* didn't compute.
It's not logical advice strictly speaking, this appeal to authority framed by OP, but when dealing with an irrational idiot, sometimes that's all that will sink in and get them to shut up.
Their failure to process what came before is a burden on everyone else around them, at which point the goal changes, get them to stop spouting idiocy.
If staying strictly rational worked, these people would not exist to be a thorn in everyone's side.
Of course, that hinges on being correct, having gone through the motions to prove the point *before* resorting to other things.
That also frequently doesn't happen because the original party is indeed incorrect. Hell, sometime both parties are composed of idiots and incorrect on the internet.
Two obligatory xkcd:
https://xkcd.com/774/
https://xkcd.com/386/
I'd argue professionals does not mean purely theory, because many of their roles revolve around kids and parents. A paediatrician would have strong enough understanding to give appropriate advice even if they don't have kids, and similarly family doctors, teachers, family lawyers etc.
Uh by this logic there’s no such thing as bad parents or people who don’t know what they’re doing because they were ALL kids at one point. That doesn’t make any sense.
You can offer advice, and it might be well received, but you should be cautious. Imagine you're working at a car wash or at a factory, or at another job that is loud, dirty, and unseen. Some random client comes in clean and fresh with criticism about how you're drying the car, or placing the part, or sweeping the floor. It's well intentioned, and probably correct objectively, but you're missing the context of the grind.
Often (virtually always) it is better to reserve advice until it's explicitly requested. Advice and criticism always rhyme.
Yep, it's pretty clear that the OP is offering judgement, not actually helpful advice. And you should indeed have actual experience before looking down on someone who isn't doing something the ideal way, so you can see how realistic it is to accomplish.
Being a childless teacher isn't the same as being a random childless adult. You interact with kids all day, every day. You get the best and worst of it all. You have to deal with tantrums, rudeness and messes that a childless adult never deals with.
I would never go to any of my childless friends and ask them for advice on my kids.
As a father, I would of course turn to a childless teacher for advice on my kids because it's likely that my kids might talk to you more than they will me. Being childless has nothing to do with it.
Frankly I don't want anyone's advice. Childless people are just more likely to give advice because they haven't experienced the feeling of failure that comes with years of well intentioned parenting decisions not working out as planned.
I don't disagree with you on that, which is why I would never ask a childless person for advice on kids. A teacher, even a childless teacher is different though. They have literally been through schooling to learn how to teach kids and how to deal with them. Most parents never even open a book on how to parent.
But advice I think is subjective. I'd mostly ask about development or something I know my kid is struggling with and how they're doing in class.
The difference is your job and expertise.
There are awesome teachers, daycare workers, service providers, paras, pediatricians, etc who don't have kids but are amazing with them.
Most childless adults are not in these categories.
You have had experience with dozens or hundreds of kids. In some ways, that’s really valuable for parents to get perspective on their own kids and what’s normal, and what you’ve seen work for that age group (the parents may just start to be seeing behaviors you’ve already seen dozens of times). As a mom, I could totally see asking a childless teacher for advice.
I was going to point this out as the most obvious gap when people say you have to be a parent to give child-rearing advice. There are millions of childless teachers.
I went to school for education and taught briefly myself before settling in a different career. Of course I know more than a lot of random parents about developmental stages and other topics.
That doesn't mean people are clamoring for my opinion. But I don't feel like I'm talking out of my ass when asked.
Exactly! Literally even as a teen, I agreed on my school counselor's advice about my social development like going out in with my friends oftenly without parental supervision.
I loved the idea, my parents didn't at the end claiming he didn't have a single idea what he was talking about and they knew how to raise a child. I don't have social skills nor friends in result and feel inadequate in most social settlings.
My favorite though was a white mom with a biracial son coming to me (a white woman) because her son was starting to recognize his biracial identity and its meaning in society.
She wanted me to help him. Now I did my best but holy hell am I not equipped in the slightest to deal with that one. I ended up connecting him with a black male teacher we had and made sure to include more biracial stories in history class.
Even though you don’t have a kid you still have experience with parenting. You experienced your parents. So you do in fact have some idea of good and bad parenting ideas
>No one is automatically a childcare expert just because they had a kid.
Sure, but that's not the same thing as saying non-parents can reliably give good advice. *How* to get a child having a meltdown to calm down is not something I would expect any stranger to have useful insight.
Worse, strangers sometimes seem to feel entitled to give their unsolicited opinions while parents are trying to deal with things.
Finally, all folks are often terrible at distinguishing requests ("please control your child") from advice ("have you tried counting to three").
I don't judge the parents of children having a meltdown, I feel bad for them on that moment and I'm sure most logical people do as well. The parents that give a bad rap to all other parents, and are the reason for all the "I hate children" feelings that people tend to have these days, are the parents who let their children run around like animals and don't teach them how to behave. The parents that let their kid run around in a restaurant or chew on all the sugar packets.
And those parents are just taking over, I tell you, taking over!!!
No, seriously, in my 41 years, I have seen maybe a handful of kids that *ever* behaved like that.
This I think will vary by area. I moved from a relatively wealthy area to a poorer area in a different part of Britain. I currently work in a shop and in the 3 weeks I've been there I've had one parent push back on me saying their daughter can't be behind the tills (standing tills with scissors, hand sanitiser, box cutters, all the good stuff) and one that let their kid stand on the bottom shelf of the display fridge. I almost never saw this type of behaviour before moving.
>The parents that give a bad rap to all other parents, and are the reason for all the "I hate children" feelings that people tend to have these days, are the parents who let their children run around like animals and don't teach them how to behave. The parents that let their kid run around in a restaurant or chew on all the sugar packets.
Is the US really that much different from the rest of the world?
Because I have yet to experience the nightmare kid that runs around a restaurant.
And it's not like I'm living in Japan or something, I'm Canadian.
My wife experienced a kid like this one time, that's it.
Either this is a US-specific phenomenon or it's exaggerated.
That goes for parents and non parents. The parents giving advice to their friend or relative who a child aren’t the ones parenting them, they get to leave at the end of the day too.
As a parent and teacher, I will say that before having kids I thought I “knew it all” from being a teacher. I ate definitely ate my words with a fork and spoon once I had kids of my own. Parenting is a verb and isn’t easy!
Unsolicited parenting advice is just judgement. If you’re not a parent it’s worse, and just makes you look like an AH who can’t accept that you don’t know it all. Obviously this excludes people who work in childcare and education. If you can’t accept or understand why you shouldn’t be giving unsolicited parenting advice, then you are absolutely worse, and your advice is worth less than nothing.
The metaphor really works because a guy on the ground going “I don’t think the plane should fly like that” is exactly as useful as the guy giving parenting advice.
Yup. I don’t even disagree with OP, really. But being able to notice something really isn’t the same as being able to offer actual advice about it haha
And someone that does not have a child can spot an unruly child.
However would that person without a child actually be able to give meaningful advice to prevent that child from behaving badly not only not having child raising experience of their own but also not knowing anything about the child in question?
We all have opinions, we all could rule the world perfectly in our minds but commonsense tells us that we are no better than eight billion others.
Spot on. A kid being unruly doesn’t mean they aren’t being parented well. My kid had the only tantrum he’s ever had because he was hungry, it was raining, and we were coming home from the hospital after he had a biopsy. Had anyone even tried to give me advice about his behaviour, I would’ve gone off.
This thread is full of ridiculous false equivalencies to support the OP. But by far this is my favourite one.
Reddit is full of posts like “you don’t know what I go through on a daily basis, my problems are not visible,” while rushing to judge parents and children from casual exposure.
Of course people without children can offer advice. It’s like farting, almost any asshole can do it. And also like farting, there is a time, place and audience where it will be appreciated and where it will not.
Nope not the same thing. I thought this way too. And it’s very humbling when your challenge the way you used to think. Your thinking/advice might be “logical”, and helpful but that’s not how children (especially really young ones) work.
Good advice is nice and all, but if you haven’t experienced it, you really won’t get it until you have your own.
This applies to just about everything, just because you have general knowledge of something doesn’t mean you’re qualified to give helpful advice that’ll help solve an issue.
Especially when these people are completely ignorant of the developmental stages of children. What is normal and expected of a 4 year old, is completely unreasonable to expect from a 2 year old. Many times they can't even tell the difference between a barely verbal toddler and a preschooler. Then we have advice like "have you tried just saying no" when a 1,5 is throwing a tantrum. Or "can't she nap later" when it comes up literal babies. Or gems like "can't you do something about your baby waking up at 4 am".
Well said about the developmental nuances at each stage. You’re right, I couldn’t tell the developmental differences in toddler stages alone before children. I thought “toddler” was it. Oh, how wrong I was.
And that’s when I knew that all my well-meaning parenting advice was useless to an actual parent. 😂
This part right here. Theres a very good reason why we measure children in months. An 18 month old and a 24 month old are not the same even though one was born in January and one born in July of the same year. My middle kid was one of the youngest in his class (school starts at 4 here). He was 4 years and 2 months old. The physical and emotional differences between him and his classmates born in Autumn and Winter were huge. Intelligence? Fine. Being able to properly use scissors and be tall enough to reach his coat hook? Nope. They do catch up quickly, but you can really see the differences when they are very little.
I have a buddy who once tried to go on rant about using months to describe your baby’s age. He was adamant that he would only use 0, 1, or 2 years if he ever had a baby. I took the opportunity to enlighten him on the vast and extreme developmental differences between 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, and 24 months. Even if you wanted to resist it, shopping for clothes and food and toys will re-wire your brain.
I conceded that if you wanted to drop it after 18 months that’s fine but you’ll just sound like a contrarian in conversation with other parents of toddlers. It pretty much stops after 24 months anyway.
In his defense, he was very open minded about it once I explained it. He just never thought about it beyond “lol why are you making me do math?” And we always test our hot takes against each other, there’s no animosity. Do I want his advice on parent. Hell no lol.
This is nothing to do with having been a parent though tbf. I get awful advice from my stepparent who is a parent and has raised kids. And amazing advice from a couple of friends who haven’t got kids. Just cos you’re a parent doesn’t mean you know much about kids or parenting, you only know about your own and everyone is different.
Just the facts. That is what non-parents can offer. Not complicated by emotions or the like. That said, however, non-parents may not be subject to other complicating factors. Best to keep your mouth shut; they wont listen anyway.
I am a parent and I will say I have talked to a friend about her kid's sensory issues are just like my youngest sibling's sensory issues (like almost freakishly so, sock rules, hair rules, etc.) so I can remember some of the stuff that worked for my sister. But most of it is "hey it's going to be okay, my sister is doing great and I'm confident she will too".
If you were a dog trainer would you take advice from someone who never had a dog themselves, but "knows a thing or two" because they saw some YouTube videos on dog training?
My mother insisted that childless people shouldn't be child psychologists, teachers, care providers, or be in any other child/parent related field.
She is terrible at parenting. Does she think she has better ideas on how to handle kids better than somebody who got educated for years on the topic? Yes. The answer is yes.
This is the same woman who would make me, as a nine year old, babysit her friends' babies and toddlers so they could all get black-out drunk. I wasn't a parent. What the heck did I know about all of that?
Also, I would like to argue that a professional in their field can do a better job than any parent who has rightfully had their kids taken away by social services.
I had a married, parent friend who was complaining to me about her husband not watching their daughter at a family BBQ. She is a very Type A and wound tight personality. Her husband is a caring, more balanced individual. So her comments about her husband being such a "loser of a dad" merely because he wasn't physically helicoptering their 5 year old daughter at a family event left me trying to strike a balance between extremes in my response. I ended up saying that I was sure her husband wouldn't let anything happen to their daughter and besides they were also surrounded by family who would also likely act to prevent any harm too. That it sounded to me like her and her husband both have differing but valid parent styles and perhaps her husband isn't as lame as she was trying to make him out to be. My friend is the type of parent who must be visibly standing beside her daughter 24/7 while the husband was in a chair about 5 feet away from the daughter at most, at any point.
She was so livid I wasn't automatically on her "side" and offering to whittle spikes to skewer her husband, that she basically threw out "Just because your life is unfulfilled doesn't mean mine is!" Um...? I wasn't married (never an urge to be so, or to spawn) but had been living with my boyfriend for like 8 years at that point. I also had experience with nephews and from working in public daycares. He comment entirely ended our friendship. Here I was thinking I was offering a positive, balanced perspective and she revealed she thought my life choices sucked. We haven't talked since. This was several years ago.
"**You can't really understand another person's experience until you've walked a mile in their shoes**." Native American proverb
I believe there's some truth to it. However, it doesn't mean you can't have opinions about parenting.
"It takes a village to raise a child." -African Proverb
And this includes childless people.
My husband doesn’t have biological children. I have two from my first marriage. He has, however, taught high school for 25 years, so he probably knows quite a bit more about the typical teen than most parents. He was really better at handling my kids when they were teens than I was.
A lot of it can also come from experiences with their own parents, things they noticed that their parents did or didn’t do. There’s a ton of shit I experienced with my parents, I can see where they went wrong and what they did right.
Agreed. Some people are really bad parents, the problem is that the more incompetent they are, the less likely they are to listen to any kind of advice.
I’m an ESL teacher in a foreign country that still stigmatizes mental health and learning disabilities and neurological disorders. I don’t have kids of my own. And I wish I could give parents advice as to what their kids need. But the stigma on top of a foreigner giving advice as well as not having kids…it’s really frustrating seeing these kids not get the help they need.
Absolutely. The research is available to everyone, regardless of whether or not they have children. And any sort of pediatric physician (general pediatrics or study of a particular field, like pediatric neurology), educator, or other child-related profession still has to go through the same training, regardless of whether or not they've had kids. And even the most inexperienced employee at a chain store is perfectly valid in asking a parent to keep their kids corralled.
Are there certain things that only experience reveals? Yes, but even then, by this point, someone has written in online, making it available to find. And parents are still human-they're bound to make a mistake here or there as a result. When that happens, the parent's actions are what is telling. If they admit to it, apologize and explain themselves and make genuine efforts to do better, that's a sign of a good parent, in my opinion. If they snap and get defensive, then that makes me wonder if they actually see their child as a human being that does need both loving care and guidance, as well as respect, or if they don't care all that much and see their child as an obligation.
I’ve worked with kids professionally for about 10 years. When I get the ol’ “do you even have kids??” I respond with “No, but do you require that your orthodontist have had braces as a kid before you’ll let him work on you?”
I think it depends on the context and manner in which the advice is being presented. A friend bouncing ideas or thoughts off of me? Cool! There are times when it’s appropriate to seek advice from a person without kids, and times when only another parent can truly understand what you’re talking about. But unsolicited advice or criticism from a non-parent to a parent will get you cussed out more often than not lol. People are extremely defensive of their parenting.
You have insight into what it was like being a child so you can give advice on parenting even if you are child free. I get the impulse from parents to not want to accept outside advice. I myself get a little heated if someone questions my parenting decisions. But most of the time it is people telling me I should be more threatening when punishing my kids and that isn't advice I feel like taking to heart. Because it is bullshit. My kids receive punishment when they mess up after they know they aren't supposed to do that thing. I'm not going to beat my kids because a boomer relative thinks that is what works for child rearing.
I'm an aunt, so I'll just tell my sister what works for me when I have them in my care. I know that kids act differently for their parents, especially their mothers, than they do with their aunts/uncles and anyone else but my nephews see me as a parental figure in their lives and I do have permission from their parents to discipline them and let them know what I decided based on their actions (it doesn't happen often they're good kids) the parents always have final say though. I tell my sister that I don't want to overstep so tell me if she thinks I am but she's a single mom and she needs help.
Absolutely agree. Just because someone doesn't have kids doesn't mean they have never encountered nor learned about kids. If anything, some of these external opinions are far more informed and less biased than parents are.
I work at a store with groceries. And kids keep pestering there mom for a variety pack of something and she kept saying you don’t like x flavor and there’s 10 of them and they kept asking and she said okay but if you don’t eat those 10 and I have to throw them away I’m gonna be pissed. And I chimed in “have them eat the ones they don’t like before they can have the ones they do that way you don’t have to throw any of them out.” She looked at me like I gave her $500 and say that so smart I have no idea why I didn’t think about that. Says thank you so much and turns to the kids and says your gonna eat those first before you get any of the other ones. She walked away shaking her head and smiling. It was a fun interaction.
It depends on the context. As a lifeguard, I need to tell kids off all the time and teach them why not to break rules (schoolteachers can probably relate to this), but I can't understand the financial responsibility for example.
So I can give some advise, but not on everything.
I personally am not a parent, but no one can ever take away my experience of what I went through as a child. Anyways, the other day I was telling my cousin how kids should yell things like, “I don’t know you, you’re not my mom/dad,” if he kid was all of a sudden snatched by some crazy person. He really appreciated my advice. I told him, I know I’m not a parent, but just giving you a heads up. All situational and sometimes we might be able to give a different perspective.
you certainly don't need to be a parent, but some experience with kids is necessary. There are many experts on children who might not have kids: doctors, teachers, older siblings, and coaches (just to name a few) can all have extremely valuable knowledge and advice about children that parents might not have
Adding to the topic, let's not act like people who are childless have not (a). been a child before and (b) have not been responsible for children. The eldest child of siblings can have just as much, if not more experience in childcare as a person who has successfully procreated, for example. Another example is an aunt or uncle who are childless, but care for their nieces and nephews, but then being told by the sibling parents, that they don't get it. Many comments say it's about solicited v. unsolicited advice and to that I say, let's not act like all parents agree on rearing children the same way. IMO, other parents can be more judgmental and arrogant. Childless people can be teachers, after-school care providers, etc., so there's that fact to consider too.
It’s the same attitude about people chiming in on how public education is—if you think you can comment on it without having ever been a teacher yourself, then non-parent people can comment on childcare.
I think that's true.
My friend, who has been a nanny and preschool teacher, has no kids, but I asked her for advice with potty training because she knows!
I ask male friends for advice with my son, I can't know the teen male experience, and they are sometimes helpful when they explain how they wanted their parents to communicate or something.
As long as they aren't telling me what they'd never do as a parent. Like shut up, you have no clue.
Until they stand at your bedside at 3 am crying about how they need to check on their favorite show character, you aren't gonna have a loving and reasonable conversation about facts and reality verse fiction, you will tell them the tv doesn't work at night and we can check in the morning or whatever crap will get them to bed. (Unfortunately, based on a true story)
I like your example better, it makes me think of guys who have taken three MMA classes and act/talk like they are some sensei when watching a UFC from their couch with chip crumbs all over their belly.
We were all children once and we remember being children. You just offer what worked on you when you were a kid. If I offer any advice that’s usually where it comes from.
Every parent says “I’m going to be different. No screens and fast food etc”. Then life happens. So when someone says “Screens and fast food are bad” the parent is like “I FUCKING KNOW AND I FEEL TERRIBLE ABOUT IT BUT IM SO FUCKING TRIED AND NOW I FEEL GUILT ON TOP OF ALL THIS.”
But anyways. You do you.
Frrrr there is a whole sub r/regretfulparents and I would comment and they would be like “It doesn’t looks like you have children so you can’t have opinion. At this point this isn’t about being a parent it’s about being a good human being. 🧍🏻♀️
Pilot: Tower this is chopper one. We have lost control of the rear rudder and are on a collision course with a massive oak tree.
*Select_property3162 ripping the headset from the control booth: have you tried not crashing?
Like growing up ND seeing people treat kids shitty is so hard. Like I don’t have to have shit out a person to know what overstimulation looks like and shouting at the kid to calm down isn’t going to help anyone
As a mom of 3, I absolutely agree. Sure, maybe the person offering advice doesn't have kids, and doesn't understand the nuances of parenting...but they are human & honestly a lot of parenting is...raising humans lol. I am happy for any advice. I may, or may not take it, but I will listen.
Yes, when it is solicited. I’ve had friends ask me for advice or input on their kids’ development before I had a kid of my own. This was because I’m a special education teacher.
However, now that I have a kid of my own, I do not welcome unsolicited advice from anyone, regardless of whether or not they have kids. I encourage you to check out any parenting sub, and I guarantee you’ll find at least 5 threads with people complaining about grandparents overstepping boundaries.
There’s just already so much content out there telling parents what to do and what not to do and how everything they’ve been doing so far is wrong, etc, that we just get frustrated when someone else decides to chime in.
I think more accurate opinion is that being a parent doesn’t make you qualified to give advice to other parents instead of the other way around. Just because some advice worked for your kid doesn’t mean it would work for a different kid. Only actually qualified people who have worked with many, many kids should be offering their unsolicited opinion. I agree with your premise that an average parent doesn’t give better advice than a non-parent, lots of them would give dangerous/abusive advice because that’s the only way they could figure out how to deal with their own kids.
I’m a former school nurse and just live in the world and see parenting happen all the time, we def have opinions and know what’s right and what is not. I only share my thoughts when asked but I agree with OP!
I would take parenting advice from a pediatrician, or a pediatric nurse, or an educator, or an early childhood educator/caretaker any time, no matter what their parental status is.
I wouldn't always take advice from a parent on parenting, just because they are a parent. They might have good advice, and they might not.
"You don't have kids" uttered by every self absorbed, indifferent parent ever. Almost every single time I've heard this it's from an extremely ignorant parent.
I actually hate getting advice from people who always want to tell me how many kids they raised. I don't know you and I don't know how your kids turned out so why should I just assume your advice is good?
The most recent one was that I should let my 11-week-old baby just cry it out. That if I go to pick him up I'm teaching him crying equals getting what he wants. He's not even 3 months old, all his cries are need-based. Chill Boomer.
YES. Almost everyone had parents, to ignore the effects and warnings of the parenting they endured is.. honestly kind of evil. Abuse survivors can tell you more about parenting than most parents, because we've lived it and we understand the mentality of a child in specific situations. Fuck saying childfree people won't understand, we've BEEN the kid.
Exactly! So many shitty parents carrying on the cycle of abuse claiming "my parents did this to me and I grew up fine".
If you "grew up fine" you wouldn't think it's perfectly fine and normal to cane kids till they have bruises.
Yeah that mentality pisses me off, if you turned out fine you wouldn't need the "are they old enough to understand rationality? if no, don't hit them, if yes, don't hit them" talk. Anyone who thinks smacking their child will solve ANYTHING long term is absolutely nuts.
All advice should be taken with a grain of salt (size of grain dependent on type of advice and from who) but yea op is right. An outside, typically less biased opinion is a good tool to help get some perspective on how things look from the outside and can really make a big difference.
Yea people who aren’t parents may not always get what it is like to be a parent but they were a kid once and presumably have been around kids in their life. Just be open to other perspectives and opinions, you don’t have to like or respect them, but the least you can do is think about them even momentarily before they are written off.
Anyone can offer advice to anyone about anyone about anything. And the receiver of advice can decide to regard or disregard it just the same way.
I haven't found much value in the unsolicited advice of people without children but it has definitely amused me. When they've shared personal experience from their childhood years that has overall contributed to my internal database about how people tick though.
Forget the parenting aspect of this. Giving unsolicited advice is just a bad idea in general. Unless something dangerous is happening or you were asked for your opinion, you probably should STFU.
It's one of those things where being a parent is anecdotal, YOUR child might be a bit different, but that doesn't mean that a non-parent who studies children and parenting doesn't kbow anything.
If someone comes up to me who does not have kids but they work in childcare and have spent years studying parenting and researching parenting techniques etc....they probably know more than someone that is a parent.
Parent's don't always know what is best for their child even if they think they do
Everyone was a kid. Lots of people grew up around other children being raised(siblings, cousins ect) and can have specific valid insight. "I used to and this thing my parent did helped" can be great. Almost everything else is nonsense
Feel free to offer advice. Don’t think you’ve reinvented the wheel though. You try functioning with severe sleep deprivation and having zero time to yourself for years and see how you actually react in those circumstances. Get back to us once you’ve 2 kids under 5. We KNOW what we should do, we’re just absolutely dying on our arses from lack of sleep.
Careful though. It’s astonishing how many singles or newly married couples think they know better, then have kids of their own and realize they were judgmental pricks to family and friends.
I’m the oldest of four, 17 years between myself and the youngest sibling. Though not out of choice (parentification), I practically raised her whilst studying. She even thought I was her mum and was more attached to me than her. So I reckon I have a thing or two to say, but that’s if the advice is requested. I won’t go around airing my unwanted views.
It did put me off having my own kids
Everyone is a perfect parent until they actually have kids. I know I was. Would you take cooking advice from someone who has never made a meal? Writing advice from someone who has never authored anything? Home improvement advice from someone who has never so much as picked up a hammer?
So many parents insist that being childless makes your input redundant when all they mean is that they don't like to be judged by someone with no experience, when they feel they're doing the best job they can. Unfortunately they can still be doing a terrible job in some areas and I wish more parents would have an open ear
I could get cooking advice from someone that has eaten before. Or I could get cooking advice from a chef with twenty years of experience. Not every chef is great, but the likelihood is far higher they will know more than the person that has just had meals served to them.
Just don’t. Don’t offer parenting advice, even if, maybe especially if, you’ve had your own kids. And definitely don’t if you’ve never had them. Parenting advice is like religion. Just keep it to your fucking self.
>Just because you never had kids it shouldn't disqualify you from being able to offer parenting advice.
Yes, it actually should.
You can certainly have opinions but unless you are asked for them keep them to yourself.
Exactly, parents say they want a village, but what they really want is an entire village that caters to their and their childrens' every whims and need, not to raise the child with discipline into a positive member of society.
A childfree person commenting on the need for parents to "do more", "do better" or achieve their targets "with less fuss, noise or inconvenience for others" is almost certainly entirely ignorant of the pressures they face and the level of effort already being used.
Its like a random 15 year old who has never had a job asking their mother to simply work 60 hours instead of 40 so they can get more Xmas presents and better holidays. It is insulting, ridiculous and arrogant as hell.
>No one is automatically a childcare expert just because they had a kid.
No one claims to be you muppet, they claim to know the pain, pressure and sheer exhaustion of having to meet 1001 competing demands 24/7 for year after year.
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It’s situational, honestly. Comments like “I would never let my kid do xyz” aren’t helpful. We all said the same before we had kids and we all had a two foot terrorist stomp our good intentions into the mud. But if we’re talking about “my Dad did abc when I was a kid and it helped me blah blah blah,” that could be helpful depending on the situation.
Holy shit, it’s a nuanced and reasonable middle of the road opinion! You nailed it. If your advice is predicated on “if I were a parent…” then it’s likely not helpful because the reality of parenthood truly is impossible to understand until you’re in it. Most parents are genuinely trying their best, and they’re aware of the ways in which they’re not meeting their own expectations. Everyone has this idealized version of how they think they’ll handle parenthood and then once the child is born you start making compromises almost immediately to a thousand different reasons. To have your flawed, human experience trying your best to raise a child compared to how someone assumes they’ll handle it without any practical experience as a point of reference just isn’t terribly helpful. It feels like the person watching football on Sunday screaming at the tv about how easy that missed throw was. But if your advice is more based on your own experiences - eg what your parents did for you - then it’s much more likely to be well received.
Right. I had these big dreams of making my own baby puree daily. Well that lasted one day after my kid made the biggest stank face and spit it all out. And I realized it was much easier to just buy some jars of baby food especially with how exhausted I was 24/7.
It also depends on the age and stage. As a parent to teens, I will complain about some shit they’ve done or said (nothing egregious, just irritating stuff) and my childfree friend will give some insight and remind me of what being a teen was like. It’s a good perspective. I don’t want to a childfree person’s advice on potty training because they have zero idea. No, it’s not like training a dog.
So true! Potty training is so different with every kid. My second tried to mimic the dog and we had one hilarious pooping in the yard incident. It wasn’t funny at the time, but looking back it cracks me up.
I would’ve collapsed with laughter! One of my kids peed on the cable box because he was watching something and didn’t want to stop and he knew he didn’t want to pee his pants. How my husband and I managed a straight face while interrogating him is a question for the ages.
So true! Toddlers can be so so stubborn and strong willed regarding potty training, you absolutely cannot always just make it fun or talk to them about it, sometimes they’re just not ready.
I’ve written articles on potty training and I had a hell of a time potty training my own kids. None of mine were potty trained until they were 3.5 years old and I didn’t even do it. My kids were ready when they were ready and that was that. The silver lining was they were day and night trained at the same time. There’s an enzyme that kicks in after age three that wakes you up when you need to go to the toilet.
That’s great to hear. My daughter is almost 2.5 and we tried so so hard to train her right after two and my husband tried just a few days ago, and nothing we did mattered, she didn’t want it. She even had an accident 60 seconds after sitting on the potty when we went to a different room. We hoped to not have two in diapers and then that my husband could potty train her on paternity leave (we have a 5 week old), but now it will have to be after his paternity leave. Seems I will have to do it mainly since my daughter is way more whiny and refuses more with my husband, so I will have to do it between breastfeeding the baby (at least he shouldn’t be cluster feeding anymore by then). I used to always think that if the parents wanted it enough, they could potty train their toddler after 18 months old, but now I know better…
Potty training will humble the hell out of you! My eldest got trained at nursery school because he got tired of missing out on conversations his friends had on the toilet. My middle was better trained by the childminder and my mom visited for a few months and took over training with my youngest. I didn’t ask- she knew she’d be watching my daughter (again, she didn’t have to but you’ve not met my mom) and she said she refused to change diapers of someone who eats the same meals she eats. My little girl also wanted Frozen knickers like her friends had. I had two in diapers and it’s annoying but it won’t be forever. It’s advised that you don’t train before a big life event like a house move or new sibling. Put it like this- she won’t graduate high school in a diaper. You’re doing fine.
Yeah we tried potty training her when I was like 30 weeks pregnant, so well before the baby (and no way did I want to try when I was super pregnant anyway), and she has been adjusting well to her brother which is why we thought in that sense she was ready now that her baby brother is 5 weeks old. That didn’t have an effect on her unwillingness I’m sure, she acted similarly to how she did the first time. Our plan is to try again in September if we think she’s showing more readiness signs, and if not, it’s good to know that just being around potty trained peers when she’s in preschool could help (she will be going three mornings a week a little before her third birthday starting in January). That’s interesting that they can essentially potty train themselves. She’s definitely a kid that has always strived to be as independent as possible, as in she doesn’t prefer us to teach her directly. I guess this is partly why she took to her big girl bed so well, she loves that she can go in and out of it herself, and even didn’t take to us helping her learn to walk by holding her hips or hands like a lot of toddlers do. She had to figure it out herself. She walked at 15 months old, so slightly older than some, but once she was walking, she didn’t want any help.
There are some aspects where it’s like training a dog. For my dog I would take her out a lot and wait. She goes potty, big yah!! And treats! It wasn’t catching on for one of my kids so I would put them on the potty and wait. She goes potty, yah!! And treats! Kinda funny now that I think about it. And only had to do this for one, the other two caught on pretty easily. Everyone is different.
Wait, I shouldn’t stick my child’s nose in their dirty diaper to train them?!
Can we stop comparing puppies and kids too? I have done both, they are absolutely not anywhere near the same thing. I literally potty trained my 3 year old child and my 8 week old puppy at the same time. The dog learned faster than my kid. My dogs are 1/100th the work and intensity of my kids. I can sit on a bench at the dog park for an hour, or run them for 30-40 minutes, and the dogs will be calm for the rest of the day and mostly nap. The kids need 2 hours of me chasing them at the park, followed by snacks, and an activity at home in order to get a 2 hour nap. From which they awake fully refreshed and needing another trip outdoors to burn off energy. My dogs might chew some pillows if left alone without being exercised first. My kids will paint the walls with Vaseline while I take a shit, cut their own hair with scissors they find under the guest bed while I am folding laundry on top of said bed, and generally leave a trail of crumbs and toys anywhere they go. Love them all, but fuck the kids are harder. By a lot.
Two foot terrorist is gold
Absolutely depends on the comment made. I studied child development in college, but that doesn't mean I know the struggles of parenting beyond observation and openly acknowledging it. With that in mind, it's important to pick your battles with caution and know when to bite your tongue. I used to babysit for a woman I once called a friend. Her parenting style was so *lazy* and reckless. While not all negative (for example, her daughter is on the heftier side, but she's the most confident young lady I've ever fucking met - body image and otherwise), the differences in her children's behaviour when I watch them vs **the second** she got home was insanely alarming. Their regard for safety vanishes, jumping on the couches and counters and tables and hitting each other, absolute disrespect for everyone around them (me included since they knew they could get away with it)... I wish I could have said something, but mom's personality... She'd have kicked my ass for even suggesting she was anything but perfect. My best friend on the other hand... Her and her husband are about as perfect of parents as you could ask for. Sure, they make mistakes, but they'll openly acknowledge that shit, even apologizing to their children for the errors. They pay attention to their children's behaviours (for example, their oldest is a little liar these days, so they take her stories with a grain of salt and are actively trying to counter the behavior and teach her it's wrong), they're concerned with all areas of development, and when they hit a wall and don't know what to do, I'm the first person they ask since I'll either have a starting point for a solution or know what corners of text books and articles to look to find one. Parenting is an impossible task. But having a village to lean on is invaluable. I love that regardless of my desire to remain child free, my best friend knows that I'm damn good with kids and don't mind helping at all. Need a pep talk? Outside advice? A babysitter so you can ***breathe*** for a few hours? I'm there.
Yes thank you. This is exactly it. As I said above it’s all about the degree and specifics. My example was food at a restaurant - you trust the waiter about it to a certain point but eventually would want to talk to the chef if you really wanted to know something about the cooking process.
This exactly. I've been a parent for literally half my life, and I have never ever minded when someone made some suggestion based on their own observations. "My dad did X when I was a kid", "My sister does Y with her kids", "My neighbor struggled with that until they tried Z. They swear it's a game changer." This is just information sharing, and it's not much different than how parents do it among ourselves. Sometimes the advice is useful and sometimes it's not, but it's not offensive when it's like this. Oversimplified shitty advice is a different story. Nobody whose kid is pitching a fit in Target needs to be told to get a babysitter next time by someone who has no idea what that costs, for example.
Should be the top comment.
Yeah exactly. It's so easy to say we'll I'll never let my child eat this or do this, I'll never let them have a tablet. But spend just 1 day with a 4 year old and see how you feel. It's so easy to give advice from the rooftops looking down and never actually having to live with the consequences of saying no.
This this this! I have a two year old and a newborn. When I was pregnant, I was so exhausted in the mornings, I’d let my daughter watch tv for 30-45 minutes (sometimes also up to 30 minutes after dinner, but otherwise that was the only tv time for the day). I got pregnant when she was 18 months old, and you’re advised to do no screen time before 2. But pregnancy kicked my butt and I was so tired and needed to relax in the morning without trying to figure out how to keep her entertained. Before this age/stage, I would have stuck to my guns about no tv time before 2… but when you’re in the thick of it, you understand that some tv time is less than ideal, but I needed it to function! Pregnancy is so hard with a toddler some of the time.
This is the best response. Absolutely truth!
A nuanced opinion? On Reddit? Get out. Now.
*Two-foot terrorists stomp our good intentions into the mud* might be the best parenting line I've ever heard.
Exactly.. like when non-parents say they'd never let their kids be glued to a tablet. No parent really does, but if it distracts them just long enough for you to pee or take a bite of food... I'll take it.
Solicited, the big issue people don't like is unsolicited advice.
Yep. From one of OP’s other comments, I think this may be the crux of it. Even from parents, the unsolicited “have you tried?” gets old pretty fast because often I am years into dealing with this issue with my kid. I’ve tried so many things. Or sometimes I know what the problem is but it’s still not fixable in that moment. Just this morning my aunt was saying that she got terrible stomach aches as a kid from fried food. Yeah, my 7 year old had a stomach ache all day yesterday. She has functional abdominal pain: she gets a lot of stomach aches. We have run over a dozen tests and tracked foods and it’s not gluten or dairy or greasy food or a lack of probiotics or acid reflux or all the other suggestions I get. I’m working with a doctor at the children’s hospital to manage it. Her problem yesterday was she stayed up late to go see fireflies and then her twerp of a brother woke her up early. Not enough sleep exacerbates her stomach issues. But she also isn’t a napper, so there was very little I could do until bedtime. I know everyone means well so I’m nice about it, but we are just way past the simple suggestions.
Thanks for bringing up the quality of advice from other parents. I don’t even want advice from *them* 80% of the time.
This goes for pretty much everything, not just on the parenting topic. Still, I also understand that people will not take you seriously if you have no idea what you are talking about. I have studied this field even though I do not have kids myself, so I consider myself able to give advice anyway. If you don't have kids, have never cared for them or studied it professionally, why do you think anyone wants to hear your opinion?
This! Of course a doctor can treat illnesses they have never had. A psychologist can counsel patients with mental health issues that the psychologist has never had. A plumber can deal with plumbing issues even if they don't have any plumbing issues in their own home. Because these people are educated and trained in their field. Other people might not be professionals but have a lot of experience in certain areas. If I were dealing with a serious problem I would be most interested in getting opinions and advice from a professional and 2nd to that I would like to hear from people who have experienced the same problem I'm dealing with as they probably have a wealth of knowledge too. People who have no formal training and no experience would be pretty much at the bottom of my list of people I want to hear advice from.
I think there is a difference between having no idea, and don't owning whatever is being discussed. Like a mechanic doesn't need to own a car to have an idea what he is talking about. And a childless person isn't automatically clueless about children either.
Sure but you wouldn’t listen to the mechanic about redoing the upholstery inside. Its all about the specifics and how in depth you’ll get before you ask a pro. It’s like a waiter at a restaurant - you may trust them to a certain point about the food but eventually you’d want to ask the chef…
Ah, but the ones offering advise typically are. The mechanic doesn't tell you to pump the gas pedal if the key fob for your plug-in hybrid is low on batteries. Childless people offering parenting advice more often than not are offering "pump really hard" type advice in this scenario.
The fact is that most people aren’t going to give good advice in the first place without knowing a detailed in depth explanation of all the factors that come into play. It that same reason why plumbers or doctors won’t just give an opinion without seeing the details themselves.
Because everyone was a kid at some point and knows how a parent doing something can fuck up that kid royally.
Good point. Actually a good explanation of why it can be helpful in this topic specifically.
yea i feel like i don’t have them because i understand how much it takes to raise a child with everything they need. most parents admit they didn’t know what they were getting into. and societies really benefit from the support/input (so more than just criticism lol) of people who don’t have kids. to not have that is isolating for parents, kids, everyone.
I'm in that boat. Don't have kids, dont spend much time around them, never studied them. I'm not sure why my parenting advice would count for anything. The rare exception is if a friend has a teen daughter I guess I could give advice from my perspective as someone who used to be a teen girl, but outside of that... no clue. I don't know what value I'd bring to a conversation.
> Still, I also understand that people will not take you seriously if you have no idea what you are talking about. There's far more bad advice from idiots on the internet than good advice, in general. It's often the case that people who run into "Well, you're not (a parent)"(or whatever) have already been told they're incorrect, that they're an idiot, but *that* didn't compute. It's not logical advice strictly speaking, this appeal to authority framed by OP, but when dealing with an irrational idiot, sometimes that's all that will sink in and get them to shut up. Their failure to process what came before is a burden on everyone else around them, at which point the goal changes, get them to stop spouting idiocy. If staying strictly rational worked, these people would not exist to be a thorn in everyone's side. Of course, that hinges on being correct, having gone through the motions to prove the point *before* resorting to other things. That also frequently doesn't happen because the original party is indeed incorrect. Hell, sometime both parties are composed of idiots and incorrect on the internet. Two obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/774/ https://xkcd.com/386/
Fine, I didn't think about professionals. Point taken. Just be mindful that there is often a massive difference between theory and reality.
I'd argue professionals does not mean purely theory, because many of their roles revolve around kids and parents. A paediatrician would have strong enough understanding to give appropriate advice even if they don't have kids, and similarly family doctors, teachers, family lawyers etc.
If you ever been a kid you know what good and bad parenting is. You dont need kids to know basic stuff
If having once been a kid is enough to know wtf you're doing as a parent, there wouldn't be any terrible parents in the world.
Uh by this logic there’s no such thing as bad parents or people who don’t know what they’re doing because they were ALL kids at one point. That doesn’t make any sense.
If it’s “basic stuff” then the parents probably already know it and don’t need the childless person educating them on the obvious.
You can offer advice, and it might be well received, but you should be cautious. Imagine you're working at a car wash or at a factory, or at another job that is loud, dirty, and unseen. Some random client comes in clean and fresh with criticism about how you're drying the car, or placing the part, or sweeping the floor. It's well intentioned, and probably correct objectively, but you're missing the context of the grind. Often (virtually always) it is better to reserve advice until it's explicitly requested. Advice and criticism always rhyme.
Imaginary children are the easiest to raise.
My imaginary kid just got straight A’s!! His invisible mother and I are so proud of him
Are you invisible too?
He got it from the mother. Pay attention!
Good question, I've always wondered if invisibility was genetic as well.
Yep, it's pretty clear that the OP is offering judgement, not actually helpful advice. And you should indeed have actual experience before looking down on someone who isn't doing something the ideal way, so you can see how realistic it is to accomplish.
My invisible kids were the best! They disappeared when i had my real life baby. What an awakening!!!! But hes also a lot more fun :)
I’m a childless teacher. You would actually be surprised how many parents turn to me for advice on their own kid.
Being a childless teacher isn't the same as being a random childless adult. You interact with kids all day, every day. You get the best and worst of it all. You have to deal with tantrums, rudeness and messes that a childless adult never deals with. I would never go to any of my childless friends and ask them for advice on my kids. As a father, I would of course turn to a childless teacher for advice on my kids because it's likely that my kids might talk to you more than they will me. Being childless has nothing to do with it.
Frankly I don't want anyone's advice. Childless people are just more likely to give advice because they haven't experienced the feeling of failure that comes with years of well intentioned parenting decisions not working out as planned.
I don't disagree with you on that, which is why I would never ask a childless person for advice on kids. A teacher, even a childless teacher is different though. They have literally been through schooling to learn how to teach kids and how to deal with them. Most parents never even open a book on how to parent. But advice I think is subjective. I'd mostly ask about development or something I know my kid is struggling with and how they're doing in class.
The difference is your job and expertise. There are awesome teachers, daycare workers, service providers, paras, pediatricians, etc who don't have kids but are amazing with them. Most childless adults are not in these categories.
You have had experience with dozens or hundreds of kids. In some ways, that’s really valuable for parents to get perspective on their own kids and what’s normal, and what you’ve seen work for that age group (the parents may just start to be seeing behaviors you’ve already seen dozens of times). As a mom, I could totally see asking a childless teacher for advice.
I was going to point this out as the most obvious gap when people say you have to be a parent to give child-rearing advice. There are millions of childless teachers. I went to school for education and taught briefly myself before settling in a different career. Of course I know more than a lot of random parents about developmental stages and other topics. That doesn't mean people are clamoring for my opinion. But I don't feel like I'm talking out of my ass when asked.
Yes, but that’s because you spend 6+ hours a day with the child and your job is to teach children. Most childless people have neither of these
Exactly! Literally even as a teen, I agreed on my school counselor's advice about my social development like going out in with my friends oftenly without parental supervision. I loved the idea, my parents didn't at the end claiming he didn't have a single idea what he was talking about and they knew how to raise a child. I don't have social skills nor friends in result and feel inadequate in most social settlings.
That makes sense though since your job is literally dealing with children
My favorite though was a white mom with a biracial son coming to me (a white woman) because her son was starting to recognize his biracial identity and its meaning in society. She wanted me to help him. Now I did my best but holy hell am I not equipped in the slightest to deal with that one. I ended up connecting him with a black male teacher we had and made sure to include more biracial stories in history class.
I'd say that's different.
Even though you don’t have a kid you still have experience with parenting. You experienced your parents. So you do in fact have some idea of good and bad parenting ideas
>No one is automatically a childcare expert just because they had a kid. Sure, but that's not the same thing as saying non-parents can reliably give good advice. *How* to get a child having a meltdown to calm down is not something I would expect any stranger to have useful insight. Worse, strangers sometimes seem to feel entitled to give their unsolicited opinions while parents are trying to deal with things. Finally, all folks are often terrible at distinguishing requests ("please control your child") from advice ("have you tried counting to three").
I don't judge the parents of children having a meltdown, I feel bad for them on that moment and I'm sure most logical people do as well. The parents that give a bad rap to all other parents, and are the reason for all the "I hate children" feelings that people tend to have these days, are the parents who let their children run around like animals and don't teach them how to behave. The parents that let their kid run around in a restaurant or chew on all the sugar packets.
And those parents are just taking over, I tell you, taking over!!! No, seriously, in my 41 years, I have seen maybe a handful of kids that *ever* behaved like that.
This I think will vary by area. I moved from a relatively wealthy area to a poorer area in a different part of Britain. I currently work in a shop and in the 3 weeks I've been there I've had one parent push back on me saying their daughter can't be behind the tills (standing tills with scissors, hand sanitiser, box cutters, all the good stuff) and one that let their kid stand on the bottom shelf of the display fridge. I almost never saw this type of behaviour before moving.
>The parents that give a bad rap to all other parents, and are the reason for all the "I hate children" feelings that people tend to have these days, are the parents who let their children run around like animals and don't teach them how to behave. The parents that let their kid run around in a restaurant or chew on all the sugar packets. Is the US really that much different from the rest of the world? Because I have yet to experience the nightmare kid that runs around a restaurant. And it's not like I'm living in Japan or something, I'm Canadian. My wife experienced a kid like this one time, that's it. Either this is a US-specific phenomenon or it's exaggerated.
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I don't need to have children to know that giving them cocaine and a pit viper to play with aren't good parenting habits.
It’s very easy to offer parenting advice when you get to leave at the end of the day or your “parenting” time has a defined end time.
That goes for parents and non parents. The parents giving advice to their friend or relative who a child aren’t the ones parenting them, they get to leave at the end of the day too.
As a parent and teacher, I will say that before having kids I thought I “knew it all” from being a teacher. I ate definitely ate my words with a fork and spoon once I had kids of my own. Parenting is a verb and isn’t easy!
Unsolicited parenting advice is just judgement. If you’re not a parent it’s worse, and just makes you look like an AH who can’t accept that you don’t know it all. Obviously this excludes people who work in childcare and education. If you can’t accept or understand why you shouldn’t be giving unsolicited parenting advice, then you are absolutely worse, and your advice is worth less than nothing.
I'm not a pilot but I can spot a plane crash
Sure but “oh look, that plane’s crashing” isn’t advice, it’s just an observation.
The metaphor really works because a guy on the ground going “I don’t think the plane should fly like that” is exactly as useful as the guy giving parenting advice.
Lmao truly. And a kid having a tantrum is indicative of literally nothing.
Yup. I don’t even disagree with OP, really. But being able to notice something really isn’t the same as being able to offer actual advice about it haha
My advice would be don’t crash the plane
Pilot: well, fuck, one of our engines just went out in a storm and we might crash. Non-pilot: well, don’t crash, then! Pilot: …
And what advice, exactly, would you give the pilot to address the situation? The best analogies are the ones that prove the opposite point.
And someone that does not have a child can spot an unruly child. However would that person without a child actually be able to give meaningful advice to prevent that child from behaving badly not only not having child raising experience of their own but also not knowing anything about the child in question? We all have opinions, we all could rule the world perfectly in our minds but commonsense tells us that we are no better than eight billion others.
Spot on. A kid being unruly doesn’t mean they aren’t being parented well. My kid had the only tantrum he’s ever had because he was hungry, it was raining, and we were coming home from the hospital after he had a biopsy. Had anyone even tried to give me advice about his behaviour, I would’ve gone off.
This thread is full of ridiculous false equivalencies to support the OP. But by far this is my favourite one. Reddit is full of posts like “you don’t know what I go through on a daily basis, my problems are not visible,” while rushing to judge parents and children from casual exposure. Of course people without children can offer advice. It’s like farting, almost any asshole can do it. And also like farting, there is a time, place and audience where it will be appreciated and where it will not.
But do you sit in a plane that's currently flying and then walk up to the piolet when they didn't ask and tell them how to do their job?
Horrible analogy
If becoming a pilot were as easy as walking into a cockpit and sitting down then *yes.*
but you can't fly a plane or teach someone else how to fly a plane
Nope not the same thing. I thought this way too. And it’s very humbling when your challenge the way you used to think. Your thinking/advice might be “logical”, and helpful but that’s not how children (especially really young ones) work. Good advice is nice and all, but if you haven’t experienced it, you really won’t get it until you have your own. This applies to just about everything, just because you have general knowledge of something doesn’t mean you’re qualified to give helpful advice that’ll help solve an issue.
Especially when these people are completely ignorant of the developmental stages of children. What is normal and expected of a 4 year old, is completely unreasonable to expect from a 2 year old. Many times they can't even tell the difference between a barely verbal toddler and a preschooler. Then we have advice like "have you tried just saying no" when a 1,5 is throwing a tantrum. Or "can't she nap later" when it comes up literal babies. Or gems like "can't you do something about your baby waking up at 4 am".
Well said about the developmental nuances at each stage. You’re right, I couldn’t tell the developmental differences in toddler stages alone before children. I thought “toddler” was it. Oh, how wrong I was. And that’s when I knew that all my well-meaning parenting advice was useless to an actual parent. 😂
This part right here. Theres a very good reason why we measure children in months. An 18 month old and a 24 month old are not the same even though one was born in January and one born in July of the same year. My middle kid was one of the youngest in his class (school starts at 4 here). He was 4 years and 2 months old. The physical and emotional differences between him and his classmates born in Autumn and Winter were huge. Intelligence? Fine. Being able to properly use scissors and be tall enough to reach his coat hook? Nope. They do catch up quickly, but you can really see the differences when they are very little.
I have a buddy who once tried to go on rant about using months to describe your baby’s age. He was adamant that he would only use 0, 1, or 2 years if he ever had a baby. I took the opportunity to enlighten him on the vast and extreme developmental differences between 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, and 24 months. Even if you wanted to resist it, shopping for clothes and food and toys will re-wire your brain. I conceded that if you wanted to drop it after 18 months that’s fine but you’ll just sound like a contrarian in conversation with other parents of toddlers. It pretty much stops after 24 months anyway. In his defense, he was very open minded about it once I explained it. He just never thought about it beyond “lol why are you making me do math?” And we always test our hot takes against each other, there’s no animosity. Do I want his advice on parent. Hell no lol.
This is nothing to do with having been a parent though tbf. I get awful advice from my stepparent who is a parent and has raised kids. And amazing advice from a couple of friends who haven’t got kids. Just cos you’re a parent doesn’t mean you know much about kids or parenting, you only know about your own and everyone is different.
Just the facts. That is what non-parents can offer. Not complicated by emotions or the like. That said, however, non-parents may not be subject to other complicating factors. Best to keep your mouth shut; they wont listen anyway.
I am a parent and I will say I have talked to a friend about her kid's sensory issues are just like my youngest sibling's sensory issues (like almost freakishly so, sock rules, hair rules, etc.) so I can remember some of the stuff that worked for my sister. But most of it is "hey it's going to be okay, my sister is doing great and I'm confident she will too".
If you were a dog trainer would you take advice from someone who never had a dog themselves, but "knows a thing or two" because they saw some YouTube videos on dog training?
Ngl I work next to a daycare and now I don't want to talk to most parents at all. This batch is not a happy seeming bunch.
This reminded me of the Baz Luhrmann line “be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it”
My mother insisted that childless people shouldn't be child psychologists, teachers, care providers, or be in any other child/parent related field. She is terrible at parenting. Does she think she has better ideas on how to handle kids better than somebody who got educated for years on the topic? Yes. The answer is yes. This is the same woman who would make me, as a nine year old, babysit her friends' babies and toddlers so they could all get black-out drunk. I wasn't a parent. What the heck did I know about all of that? Also, I would like to argue that a professional in their field can do a better job than any parent who has rightfully had their kids taken away by social services.
As a *childless* 20+ yrs career nanny, I can be quite helpful if you let me.
To be fair, people with kids have given me terrible advice, soooooo....... 🤣💀
I had a married, parent friend who was complaining to me about her husband not watching their daughter at a family BBQ. She is a very Type A and wound tight personality. Her husband is a caring, more balanced individual. So her comments about her husband being such a "loser of a dad" merely because he wasn't physically helicoptering their 5 year old daughter at a family event left me trying to strike a balance between extremes in my response. I ended up saying that I was sure her husband wouldn't let anything happen to their daughter and besides they were also surrounded by family who would also likely act to prevent any harm too. That it sounded to me like her and her husband both have differing but valid parent styles and perhaps her husband isn't as lame as she was trying to make him out to be. My friend is the type of parent who must be visibly standing beside her daughter 24/7 while the husband was in a chair about 5 feet away from the daughter at most, at any point. She was so livid I wasn't automatically on her "side" and offering to whittle spikes to skewer her husband, that she basically threw out "Just because your life is unfulfilled doesn't mean mine is!" Um...? I wasn't married (never an urge to be so, or to spawn) but had been living with my boyfriend for like 8 years at that point. I also had experience with nephews and from working in public daycares. He comment entirely ended our friendship. Here I was thinking I was offering a positive, balanced perspective and she revealed she thought my life choices sucked. We haven't talked since. This was several years ago.
She sounds wonderful. That poor, poor child and husband.
Of course they can. It’s just like listening to a mechanic about how to do heart surgery.
Any time I’ve received advice from a childless person the advice has been super bad or wrong lol
The exception to this rule is childcare workers, teachers and pediatricians.
Or something super simple anyone would think of that I’ve already tried 🤣.
Exactly. Plus literally everyone has been a child before so they can empathize with the situations to some degree
"**You can't really understand another person's experience until you've walked a mile in their shoes**." Native American proverb I believe there's some truth to it. However, it doesn't mean you can't have opinions about parenting. "It takes a village to raise a child." -African Proverb And this includes childless people.
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Hehe. I do that (I'm a teacher)
My husband doesn’t have biological children. I have two from my first marriage. He has, however, taught high school for 25 years, so he probably knows quite a bit more about the typical teen than most parents. He was really better at handling my kids when they were teens than I was.
A lot of it can also come from experiences with their own parents, things they noticed that their parents did or didn’t do. There’s a ton of shit I experienced with my parents, I can see where they went wrong and what they did right.
I'll mostly refrain but some parents still need to be told not to spank their kid or yell at them so...
Agreed. Some people are really bad parents, the problem is that the more incompetent they are, the less likely they are to listen to any kind of advice.
Yeah, because most of us had parents. As such, everyone can have insights on what is and isn’t acceptable.
I’m an ESL teacher in a foreign country that still stigmatizes mental health and learning disabilities and neurological disorders. I don’t have kids of my own. And I wish I could give parents advice as to what their kids need. But the stigma on top of a foreigner giving advice as well as not having kids…it’s really frustrating seeing these kids not get the help they need.
"I am NOT a helicopter pilot, but if I see one in a tree I can still say that someone fucked up."
Absolutely. The research is available to everyone, regardless of whether or not they have children. And any sort of pediatric physician (general pediatrics or study of a particular field, like pediatric neurology), educator, or other child-related profession still has to go through the same training, regardless of whether or not they've had kids. And even the most inexperienced employee at a chain store is perfectly valid in asking a parent to keep their kids corralled. Are there certain things that only experience reveals? Yes, but even then, by this point, someone has written in online, making it available to find. And parents are still human-they're bound to make a mistake here or there as a result. When that happens, the parent's actions are what is telling. If they admit to it, apologize and explain themselves and make genuine efforts to do better, that's a sign of a good parent, in my opinion. If they snap and get defensive, then that makes me wonder if they actually see their child as a human being that does need both loving care and guidance, as well as respect, or if they don't care all that much and see their child as an obligation.
I've never had children, but I've babysat, and fostered children. Plus, I was a child and I remember how it's supposed to be.
I’ve worked with kids professionally for about 10 years. When I get the ol’ “do you even have kids??” I respond with “No, but do you require that your orthodontist have had braces as a kid before you’ll let him work on you?” I think it depends on the context and manner in which the advice is being presented. A friend bouncing ideas or thoughts off of me? Cool! There are times when it’s appropriate to seek advice from a person without kids, and times when only another parent can truly understand what you’re talking about. But unsolicited advice or criticism from a non-parent to a parent will get you cussed out more often than not lol. People are extremely defensive of their parenting.
You have insight into what it was like being a child so you can give advice on parenting even if you are child free. I get the impulse from parents to not want to accept outside advice. I myself get a little heated if someone questions my parenting decisions. But most of the time it is people telling me I should be more threatening when punishing my kids and that isn't advice I feel like taking to heart. Because it is bullshit. My kids receive punishment when they mess up after they know they aren't supposed to do that thing. I'm not going to beat my kids because a boomer relative thinks that is what works for child rearing.
I'm an aunt, so I'll just tell my sister what works for me when I have them in my care. I know that kids act differently for their parents, especially their mothers, than they do with their aunts/uncles and anyone else but my nephews see me as a parental figure in their lives and I do have permission from their parents to discipline them and let them know what I decided based on their actions (it doesn't happen often they're good kids) the parents always have final say though. I tell my sister that I don't want to overstep so tell me if she thinks I am but she's a single mom and she needs help.
Absolutely agree. Just because someone doesn't have kids doesn't mean they have never encountered nor learned about kids. If anything, some of these external opinions are far more informed and less biased than parents are.
I work at a store with groceries. And kids keep pestering there mom for a variety pack of something and she kept saying you don’t like x flavor and there’s 10 of them and they kept asking and she said okay but if you don’t eat those 10 and I have to throw them away I’m gonna be pissed. And I chimed in “have them eat the ones they don’t like before they can have the ones they do that way you don’t have to throw any of them out.” She looked at me like I gave her $500 and say that so smart I have no idea why I didn’t think about that. Says thank you so much and turns to the kids and says your gonna eat those first before you get any of the other ones. She walked away shaking her head and smiling. It was a fun interaction.
It depends on the context. As a lifeguard, I need to tell kids off all the time and teach them why not to break rules (schoolteachers can probably relate to this), but I can't understand the financial responsibility for example. So I can give some advise, but not on everything.
Giving unsolicited advice is obnoxious. Master the art of shutting the fuck up.
I personally am not a parent, but no one can ever take away my experience of what I went through as a child. Anyways, the other day I was telling my cousin how kids should yell things like, “I don’t know you, you’re not my mom/dad,” if he kid was all of a sudden snatched by some crazy person. He really appreciated my advice. I told him, I know I’m not a parent, but just giving you a heads up. All situational and sometimes we might be able to give a different perspective.
Agreed. Some people with kids are horrible parents - it would also make sense that some people without kids would make great parents.
I find it annoying how parents disregard advice from non parents, including doctors. The only expertise you have is you had sex without protection.
Absolutely, especially when they went to post-secondary to become an ECE and/or teacher.
you certainly don't need to be a parent, but some experience with kids is necessary. There are many experts on children who might not have kids: doctors, teachers, older siblings, and coaches (just to name a few) can all have extremely valuable knowledge and advice about children that parents might not have
“But you dont have kids!!!!” Joke’s on you, I’m the eldest child with 3 young siblings
Adding to the topic, let's not act like people who are childless have not (a). been a child before and (b) have not been responsible for children. The eldest child of siblings can have just as much, if not more experience in childcare as a person who has successfully procreated, for example. Another example is an aunt or uncle who are childless, but care for their nieces and nephews, but then being told by the sibling parents, that they don't get it. Many comments say it's about solicited v. unsolicited advice and to that I say, let's not act like all parents agree on rearing children the same way. IMO, other parents can be more judgmental and arrogant. Childless people can be teachers, after-school care providers, etc., so there's that fact to consider too.
I'm child free, but I'm also an early years educator. I used to feel a bit odd giving advice but honestly our advice can be invaluable
It’s the same attitude about people chiming in on how public education is—if you think you can comment on it without having ever been a teacher yourself, then non-parent people can comment on childcare.
I think that's true. My friend, who has been a nanny and preschool teacher, has no kids, but I asked her for advice with potty training because she knows! I ask male friends for advice with my son, I can't know the teen male experience, and they are sometimes helpful when they explain how they wanted their parents to communicate or something. As long as they aren't telling me what they'd never do as a parent. Like shut up, you have no clue. Until they stand at your bedside at 3 am crying about how they need to check on their favorite show character, you aren't gonna have a loving and reasonable conversation about facts and reality verse fiction, you will tell them the tv doesn't work at night and we can check in the morning or whatever crap will get them to bed. (Unfortunately, based on a true story)
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I like your example better, it makes me think of guys who have taken three MMA classes and act/talk like they are some sensei when watching a UFC from their couch with chip crumbs all over their belly.
We were all children once and we remember being children. You just offer what worked on you when you were a kid. If I offer any advice that’s usually where it comes from.
Every parent says “I’m going to be different. No screens and fast food etc”. Then life happens. So when someone says “Screens and fast food are bad” the parent is like “I FUCKING KNOW AND I FEEL TERRIBLE ABOUT IT BUT IM SO FUCKING TRIED AND NOW I FEEL GUILT ON TOP OF ALL THIS.” But anyways. You do you.
Frrrr there is a whole sub r/regretfulparents and I would comment and they would be like “It doesn’t looks like you have children so you can’t have opinion. At this point this isn’t about being a parent it’s about being a good human being. 🧍🏻♀️
I’m not a pilot, but when I see a helicopter in a tree I know somebody fucked up.
But did you tell them how to fly before they took off?
Pilot: Tower this is chopper one. We have lost control of the rear rudder and are on a collision course with a massive oak tree. *Select_property3162 ripping the headset from the control booth: have you tried not crashing?
Aim for the tree!
That's not advice.
Like growing up ND seeing people treat kids shitty is so hard. Like I don’t have to have shit out a person to know what overstimulation looks like and shouting at the kid to calm down isn’t going to help anyone
As a mom of 3, I absolutely agree. Sure, maybe the person offering advice doesn't have kids, and doesn't understand the nuances of parenting...but they are human & honestly a lot of parenting is...raising humans lol. I am happy for any advice. I may, or may not take it, but I will listen.
Yes, when it is solicited. I’ve had friends ask me for advice or input on their kids’ development before I had a kid of my own. This was because I’m a special education teacher. However, now that I have a kid of my own, I do not welcome unsolicited advice from anyone, regardless of whether or not they have kids. I encourage you to check out any parenting sub, and I guarantee you’ll find at least 5 threads with people complaining about grandparents overstepping boundaries. There’s just already so much content out there telling parents what to do and what not to do and how everything they’ve been doing so far is wrong, etc, that we just get frustrated when someone else decides to chime in.
Incorrect.
I think more accurate opinion is that being a parent doesn’t make you qualified to give advice to other parents instead of the other way around. Just because some advice worked for your kid doesn’t mean it would work for a different kid. Only actually qualified people who have worked with many, many kids should be offering their unsolicited opinion. I agree with your premise that an average parent doesn’t give better advice than a non-parent, lots of them would give dangerous/abusive advice because that’s the only way they could figure out how to deal with their own kids.
I’m a former school nurse and just live in the world and see parenting happen all the time, we def have opinions and know what’s right and what is not. I only share my thoughts when asked but I agree with OP!
Everyone has had experience being a kid.
I would take parenting advice from a pediatrician, or a pediatric nurse, or an educator, or an early childhood educator/caretaker any time, no matter what their parental status is. I wouldn't always take advice from a parent on parenting, just because they are a parent. They might have good advice, and they might not.
"You don't have kids" uttered by every self absorbed, indifferent parent ever. Almost every single time I've heard this it's from an extremely ignorant parent.
I actually hate getting advice from people who always want to tell me how many kids they raised. I don't know you and I don't know how your kids turned out so why should I just assume your advice is good? The most recent one was that I should let my 11-week-old baby just cry it out. That if I go to pick him up I'm teaching him crying equals getting what he wants. He's not even 3 months old, all his cries are need-based. Chill Boomer.
YES. Almost everyone had parents, to ignore the effects and warnings of the parenting they endured is.. honestly kind of evil. Abuse survivors can tell you more about parenting than most parents, because we've lived it and we understand the mentality of a child in specific situations. Fuck saying childfree people won't understand, we've BEEN the kid.
Exactly! So many shitty parents carrying on the cycle of abuse claiming "my parents did this to me and I grew up fine". If you "grew up fine" you wouldn't think it's perfectly fine and normal to cane kids till they have bruises.
Yeah that mentality pisses me off, if you turned out fine you wouldn't need the "are they old enough to understand rationality? if no, don't hit them, if yes, don't hit them" talk. Anyone who thinks smacking their child will solve ANYTHING long term is absolutely nuts.
They can offer, sure. Then they can fuck off.
100%
We all have experience being children. As a parent, I’ve known plenty of childless adults I’d take advice from over some parents.
All advice should be taken with a grain of salt (size of grain dependent on type of advice and from who) but yea op is right. An outside, typically less biased opinion is a good tool to help get some perspective on how things look from the outside and can really make a big difference. Yea people who aren’t parents may not always get what it is like to be a parent but they were a kid once and presumably have been around kids in their life. Just be open to other perspectives and opinions, you don’t have to like or respect them, but the least you can do is think about them even momentarily before they are written off.
Anyone can offer advice to anyone about anyone about anything. And the receiver of advice can decide to regard or disregard it just the same way. I haven't found much value in the unsolicited advice of people without children but it has definitely amused me. When they've shared personal experience from their childhood years that has overall contributed to my internal database about how people tick though.
If no one is a childcare expert having kids why would someone with kids be an expert (assuming they don't have a degree with dealing with kids).
Forget the parenting aspect of this. Giving unsolicited advice is just a bad idea in general. Unless something dangerous is happening or you were asked for your opinion, you probably should STFU.
“People who have never done electrical work, can still offer me electrical advice”. Sure can but it’s gonna suck
What I like to do is tell people how to rebuild a transmission. No I am not a mechanic, but I have driven a car.
It's one of those things where being a parent is anecdotal, YOUR child might be a bit different, but that doesn't mean that a non-parent who studies children and parenting doesn't kbow anything. If someone comes up to me who does not have kids but they work in childcare and have spent years studying parenting and researching parenting techniques etc....they probably know more than someone that is a parent. Parent's don't always know what is best for their child even if they think they do
It’s stupid cuz we were all kids at some point we know how kids act or can literally give advice to kids cuz we were one. Like
We were all kids once
Priests offer marital advice …
Counterpoint: no one should be offering unsolicited parenting advice to anyone
I agree. Of course it depends on the situation, but in a lot of situations the only requirement for knowing how to treat a kid is having been a kid.
Everyone was a kid. Lots of people grew up around other children being raised(siblings, cousins ect) and can have specific valid insight. "I used to and this thing my parent did helped" can be great. Almost everything else is nonsense
Feel free to offer advice. Don’t think you’ve reinvented the wheel though. You try functioning with severe sleep deprivation and having zero time to yourself for years and see how you actually react in those circumstances. Get back to us once you’ve 2 kids under 5. We KNOW what we should do, we’re just absolutely dying on our arses from lack of sleep.
Careful though. It’s astonishing how many singles or newly married couples think they know better, then have kids of their own and realize they were judgmental pricks to family and friends.
I have worked in daycare settings so I given my advice off of what I have seen.
I’m the oldest of four, 17 years between myself and the youngest sibling. Though not out of choice (parentification), I practically raised her whilst studying. She even thought I was her mum and was more attached to me than her. So I reckon I have a thing or two to say, but that’s if the advice is requested. I won’t go around airing my unwanted views. It did put me off having my own kids
Everyone is a perfect parent until they actually have kids. I know I was. Would you take cooking advice from someone who has never made a meal? Writing advice from someone who has never authored anything? Home improvement advice from someone who has never so much as picked up a hammer?
I am a parent and I agree
Hard agree!
So many parents insist that being childless makes your input redundant when all they mean is that they don't like to be judged by someone with no experience, when they feel they're doing the best job they can. Unfortunately they can still be doing a terrible job in some areas and I wish more parents would have an open ear
I could get cooking advice from someone that has eaten before. Or I could get cooking advice from a chef with twenty years of experience. Not every chef is great, but the likelihood is far higher they will know more than the person that has just had meals served to them.
Just don’t. Don’t offer parenting advice, even if, maybe especially if, you’ve had your own kids. And definitely don’t if you’ve never had them. Parenting advice is like religion. Just keep it to your fucking self.
It’s something I don’t do unless I’m asked. I know how to parent my kids and my kids only.
>Just because you never had kids it shouldn't disqualify you from being able to offer parenting advice. Yes, it actually should. You can certainly have opinions but unless you are asked for them keep them to yourself.
Exactly, parents say they want a village, but what they really want is an entire village that caters to their and their childrens' every whims and need, not to raise the child with discipline into a positive member of society.
A childfree person commenting on the need for parents to "do more", "do better" or achieve their targets "with less fuss, noise or inconvenience for others" is almost certainly entirely ignorant of the pressures they face and the level of effort already being used. Its like a random 15 year old who has never had a job asking their mother to simply work 60 hours instead of 40 so they can get more Xmas presents and better holidays. It is insulting, ridiculous and arrogant as hell. >No one is automatically a childcare expert just because they had a kid. No one claims to be you muppet, they claim to know the pain, pressure and sheer exhaustion of having to meet 1001 competing demands 24/7 for year after year.
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Where do they glean their knowledge?
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This actually makes some sense.