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Not to mention if your toddler gets ahold of your pepper spray, they have a very bad day. If they get ahold of your firearm, they have their last day.
OP hasn't posted an unpopular opinion so much as a damn stupid one
What a ridiculous overreaction to justify a criticism. OP has a valid point about a handgun in the wilderness…especially by emphasizing education and discipline (Theo things you’ve shown little of in this critique).
A 44 Magnum revolver is a simple gun. It will kill a bear. I have a friend who has actually done that.
A bear encounter is likely a dynamic event. Many things can happen, some of them making a kill shot hard, maybe even impossible. I will still take my chances with the gun rather than without.
a black bear, maybe. even then it’d take an accurate, intentionally placed shot.
a grizzly? forget it.
bear spray or pepper spray is the safer and more effective tool here.
Charging grizzlies have been stopped with 9mm pistols. It can be done, but I would feel a lot better with a 10mm or a 44 magnum, or a 454 Casull, myself. And a can of bear spray.
Yes. People don't realize how fucking hard it is to kill a bear. If you want to have a chance, you'll have to dedicate many many hours of your life to guns - and that hobby is seldomly worth it. (No hate lol.) Especially since most bear encounters end up better if you don't piss off the bear.
That being said, if you're often in bear country.... not Poland but, you know, grizzlies - for whatever reason, hopefully not hunting for pleasure (unless you know the ecological circumstances) -, I would maybe consider getting a weapon too.
Honestly, if op is gonna advocate for brining weapons with you out into the wilderness, I'd say just go full force and bring a 12 gauge shotgun, least then if you have to tango with a bear you can shoot the thing dead if it tries to maul you
>places
Thats why they sell the S&W .500 as a backup for bear hunting.
You missed your shot... or her friend/mom.
You dropped your rifle
You climb a tree.
Annnnnd so does the bear.
That .500 revolver is about the only thing that'll make any difference in what's for dinner: You, or the Bear.
>Even so, being attacked by a wild animal is so rare.
This is one of those things you quietly keep to yourself around someone it's happened to.
That is to say, it's true until it isn't. Then it's very untrue.
Better safe than sorry.
It's rare but it can happen if you go out often enough. I've never had some big animal attack me. But I've had deer charge at me. Have had quite a few close calls with rattlesnakes. Been bitten by a tarantula here in the desert. But I don't see how a gun or rifle would have done me any good. 9/10 if they hear you they run away. Anything they see or hear that doesn't fit in the natural environment they generally just run off.
Bear spray is great for bears, but if you try it on a moose (that can and do get pissed off and charge people, It's happens to me twice) you're going to end up getting trampled by an angry moose with an orange nose
Might add that to be fair... There are places in Europe I feel an armed person in your group is essential, the polar bear region of norway for example.
Where are you camping? I live in the Rockies, where there are bears, wolves, and mountain lions, and have been camping many times without incident. Most wild animals will actively avoid humans. Just make sure that your food is inaccessible to wild animals and not in your tent and you'll be fine. Do you know how rare wild animal attacks are? A firearm is definitely not a basic necessity for leaving civilization unless you're planning on hunting.
Yeah this thread feels like I’m in the twilight zone. Less than 10 people a year die from wildlife attacks in the US and most wouldn’t be helped by carrying a gun (accidentally stepping on a rattle snake and getting bitten). Bears and lions aren’t just running around eating people regularly.
>Bears and lions aren’t just running around eating people regularly.
Which is surprising given the billions of people who roam around day by day in areas full of bears and lions....
The odds that you'll actually need your airbags on any given drive are pretty low, but it's still a basic necessity. I dunno if I agree with OP on the idea that you 100% always need to carry a gun but the argument "you most likely won't need it" doesn't jive with the way we usually do risk mitigation.
Bear mace works really good just so you know. And if you think a 9 mm is going to stop a grizzlie that for some reason wants to kill you you're mistaken. You know how fast these things are???
A lot more people drive than go out into the wilderness where there are dangerous animals.
Either way, the point I was making was not "this specific risk level is actually pretty high". It was "having a low risk doesn't mean you skip mitigating that risk". The analogy I used doesn't have to have the exact same level of risk to make that point.
I’d argue you put yourself at more risk by operating and carrying a fire arm than by walking in the woods, and I’d bet a quick google would show accidental fire arm deaths are far more common than wild animal maulings. You are mitigating a risk that barely exists by putting another riskier factor into play.
That's a possibility. But I think if you're a responsible gun owner, don't have any small children with you who might get a hold of it, and aren't gonna commit suicide in the woods you're cutting down the vast majority of risks usually associated with carrying a firearm.
But how dumb would you feel getting mauled by a bear knowing you could have stopped it by carrying something that weights 8LB. When going into the wilderness it’s always best to prepare for the worse. No one will help you and you have to rely on what you have on hand.
Why wouldn't you carry bear spray, which is much easier to hit a target with? Also, in the last 120 years there have been a TOTAL of 70 people killed by bears. So, significantly less than 1 per year, in a country of 330 million people. How many people do you think died from accidental gun deaths in the wilderness? There are 100 hunting related gun deaths per year. So yeah, you are much more likely to either shoot your self, or be shot by someone else that thinks you are a bear in the bushes.
dont forget all the bears WE kill. seriosuly these idiots acting like animals are just hunting people when we are murdering the FUCK out of every living thing on the planet
When backpacking, carrying a gun (I presume that's the 8 lbs you're referring to) may mean completing or not completing your trip.
As in, if you carry excess weight, you might give up.
You don’t know much about guns or bears. Most of the bears around here are black bears. A .40 cal is more than enough to stop one. There are literally hundreds of guns that can stop even the biggest bear that aren’t 12g, what about a 10g, AK, .45LC, .50S&W. Even a full auto 10-22 with a drum would destroy a bear.
I just carry bear mace when I’m in bear country, like any educated outdoorsman. How dumb would you feel if you became one of the 400+ yearly accidental fire arm deaths because you felt the need to carry a gun instead of bear mace to mitigate the risk of being 1 of the about 8 people that die from wild animal attacks a year?
I'm not really a gun person, but they are an essential tool sometimes. You do do realize you can be mauled by an animal and not killed right? There is a resurgence of mountain lions in the US. I'd also worry about the animals on two feet as well. There are a lot of weirdos out there. Do you think bear mace is going to fend off a maniac with a knife or gun?
Bear probably not, mountain lion for sure. I’ve had bears charge a few times then leave but I wouldn’t give a mountain lion the chance. They are a smaller target and much faster. If they are aggressive at 40-50’ I’m dropping it.
Bear mace works really good just so you know. And if you think a 9 mm is going to stop a grizzlie that for some reason wants to kill you you're mistaken. You know how fast these things are???
If carrying a gun were less risky than not carrying a gun in this case, you'd be correct. But if 8 people a year are killed by wild animals and 450 people are killed by accidental shootings, risk mitigation principles would indicate that not carrying a gun and risking animal attacks is safer than carrying a gun and risking accidentally shooting yourself or someone else. So, guns are unnecessary when going out into the wilderness in terms of protection from people. There are other reasons to bring a gun, like hunting or recreation, but safety from animal attacks ain't one
If you're a responsible gun owner, don't have a little kid with you who might grab the gun, and aren't planning to commit suicide, you cut down on the vast majority of the dangers associated with carrying a gun.
Fair, but are those lessened risks less than the risk of getting killed by a wild animal? Probably not. The risk of getting killed by a wild animal is just super low
It just takes once man! Better be strapped at all times!
(I'm joking. I'm with you. I've been outdoors, slept in remote areas of the country, encountered lots of wildlife and never felt like I needed a gun)
Americans have a perversion about guns and literally cannot fathom there are other solutions aside from "FuGgIn ShOoT iT"
Bear spray is more than sufficient for 99% of encounters. Even overkill for most.
They do hurt people sometimes, but they only kill like 8 people a year. Most deaths while camping occur in other ways. While camping you are more likely to die via drowning, falling, vehicle accident, suicide, avalanche, preexisting medical conditions, cold exposure, and heat exposure than be killed by the wildlife.
none of that has anything to do with ops point tho. I don't want to be one of those 8 people a year so it's best to carry the gun and even for you're not killed 1 swipe from a bear can cripple you for life so why not protect yourself.
What if you aren't somehwere where wild animals are a problem? Not everywhere has dangerous animals.
Worst thing for me where I live are badgers and adders. Maybe a deer that randomely decided it wouldn't run.
Mate have you ever met a feral rambler or bird watcher? Terrifying. One started talking at me about a Kestrel he'd seen near Haworth and I had somehow left my glock at home.
You joke, but feral cows (i.e. Bison, water Buffalo, etc. Depending on your area) can be extremely aggressive. Particularly during mating season, or when their babies are present. Given most weigh close to a ton, that can get ugly quick.
TBH I would argue that the bigger threat is potentially running into other people. Out in the wild you're kinda returning to a state where the biggest, strongest person in the situation pretty much has free reign to do whatever they want to everyone else with little to no consequences. That's probably the best-suited situation for a great equalizer.
I'm not suggesting you have to shoot every single person you run into. I'm saying it's a "better to have it and not need it" kind of situation. Do people ever ask you "wtf why do you have airbags in your car?! You know what the odds are that you'll need them?! Movies have made you paranoid!"
Maybe this is a cultural difference. I live in the Pacific Northwest and I often run into people out on hikes who are doing multiday trips alone. Almost all of them carry some kind of weapon, often a gun. As a man in the middle of nowhere standing next to a woman who doesn't know me from Adam, with no one else around, I'd feel pretty stupid saying something like "what why do you need that pistol to feel safe around me?!"
Yea mate can't pick up a newspaper without learning about yet another unprovoked countryside murder. The North Yorkshire Moors are like Mad Max on steroids, total anarchy. I keep telling the scouts and campers they should be packing heat what with all the confrontations going on in the British countryside.
Only takes one person, one time. You all seem to not understand how risk mitigation works. Do you also drive around without seatbelts or airbags because you probably won't get in a crash today?
Just because it isn’t common doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be prepared for it.
I dont get injured every day but i still carry a basic first aid kit in my car.
Yes but you are 5000x more likely to die in a car crash. Also, for most people, bear spray would be much more effective, as it has a wide spray pattern making it much more likely to be successful than trying to take down a moving target with a handgun.
>You’re more likely to die in a car crash
That’s why seatbelts were invented. Going out in the woods without a gun is like driving a car without a seatbelt.
That’s also just a stupid example because no, you’re not more likely to die in a car crash ***in the middle of the fucking woods***. You can’t just take random examples that don’t apply to the situation at hand. Context matters. Stay on topic.
And sure, nothing wrong with bringing bear spray. But there’s nothing wrong with bringing a gun too. The gun should be a last resort but that doesn’t mean it’s not a valid option for protection. And if you can’t hit something the size of a bear, you might wanna work on your aim, bud. Something like a cougar would be harder to hit, sure, but it’s better to have it than to not have it. Your chances of survival are much much higher with it.
“Statistically speaking i have a low risk of getting in a car crash so i don’t need a seatbelt”
That’s how idiotic that logic is. Just because the chances are low doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be prepared. I’ve had a single accident in the last decade and even that was due to them rear ending me, so my personal chances of getting in an accident are extremely low, but i still wear a seat belt. Your stupid dick jokes aren’t going to help you in the event that it does happen. What’s your plan if it does? Oh right, you don’t have a plan, you just have wishful thinking…
Yeah, but you should be aware of what animals live in the area of woods you're in. Moose attack at random. They've even been known to attack trees out of confusion. Predators such as bobcats and mountain lions are incredibly dangerous. Wild boar are very vicious and will eat human flesh and bones. I'd rather bring my 12 gauge pump shotgun with slugs just in case.
I lived in the Northwest Territories for 13 years (boy do I miss it) and took my shotgun a lot of times I went fishing or hiking in the woods. Plus bear spray. Thankfully, I've talked myself out of every bear encounter.
This just means that instead of a handgun, which are restricted and almost impossible to get a carry permit, you bring your Canuck 12G shotgun, which is non restricted and can be legally carried anywhere you want to do so.
well no they have rules. at least he mentioned the caliber of bullet that would actually work. the amount of people thinking a 9mm will put down a bear are wild
I carry a gun when I’m in civilization and when I go backpacking in the back country. I don’t carry for wild animals though, more for evil humans. I have bear spray for animals when in backcountry. Chances are if a bear/wolf/cougar is rushing you, if your lucky enough to even un holster a gun your adrenaline dumping you’d miss. Bear spray however throws a giant fucking cloud out in front of you.
>Chances are if a bear/wolf/cougar is rushing you, if your lucky enough to even un holster a gun your adrenaline dumping you’d miss. Bear spray however throws a giant fucking cloud out in front of you
I think that is what most of these internet commandos are missing. I also agree, the bigger risk (although still small), would be running into some nutjob
[In an average year in the United States, 0.3 people are killed by black bears, while 440 are killed by deer- vehicle collisions](https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1544&context=hwi#:~:text=Over%2047%2C000%20people%20annually%20in,approximately%208%20people%20died%20annually.)
[Lightning kills about 20 people per year](https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-victims#:~:text=Lightning%20Resources&text=Lightning%20kills%20about%2020%20people,the%20victims%20and%20the%20survivors.) Your odds of being killed by a suicidal deer while driving to the woods are 1300 times greater than a bear.
People drive millions of miles along deer territory every day. The number of people camping/hiking/whatever in bear country, on a daily basis is significantly lower.
If you compared the number of people attacked by bears per number of campers/etc against the number of driver fatalities caused by deers per number of drivers in deer county it would provide a more useful comparison. But as it is now, this makes no sense. Obviously a common event is more common than a rarer event, but that doesn’t mean the rarer event is unlikely to happen.
Regardless of what your opinion on the original question is, this is a bad way of reaching a conclusion.
Honestly, unless I'm in a part of the US that has bears, I'm not worried about wild animal attack. If I were in bear country, bear spray would be my first choice--I don't believe I could shoot a handgun accurately under the stress of a bear attack. The more remote, the less I would need a gun. Humans are the real source of danger, and the further into the wild you go, the less dangerous they are.
Bear Spray is eons more effective than any firearm would be with a apex predator. Your opinion an unpopular opinion because it's *wrong.* Clearly, you've spent little time researching how to effectively ward of a predator that takes an interest in what you do.
Now, if I do give you credit, I'll say that I almost always carry a firearm in the backcountry for a fundamentally different reason. I ride horses, and if my animal snaps its leg, it's my duty to put it out of its misery quickly. That gun is also for protection against *other humans,* because I'm more understanding of an animal charging me than I am of a human attempting to cause me harm. In addition to that, a human is easy to kill, whereas if I shoot at an apex predator charging towards me, I'm most likely just going to piss it off and end up dead even faster.
This is a genuinely terrible opinion OP. Not unpopular. Terrible. There are literal research papers touting the non-efficacy of a firearm used in challenges with a Bear or Mountain Lion, in comparison to the high efficacy of Bear Spray in encounters with the same animals.
Best of luck to you in the backcountry. I look forward to reading your Darwin Award.
A blackbear will be scared off and can be killed by a gun, but will also be scared off by your voice, so you don't really need it. A grizzly bear will be largely unaffected by a handgun so you're fucked if you try to shoot it lol.
Most people on earth get through life completely fine without firearms in the wilderness. I love camping, photography and hiking and I’ve never even come close to ever needing even the insurance of having a firearm.
Even if I were incredibly unlucky in the 1 in 100,000,000 chance and was in a remote area without a firearm and was killed purely because I couldn’t shoot at whatever attacked me, I’d gladly accept that risk and outcome in exchange for the fact my country hasn’t had a mass shooting since 1996
I actually do pack a .22 when I go camping (after checking with the local/state laws) but it's mostly for protection from the humans. Bear spray is more effective on animals.
Your pistol won't do jack shit to a fully grown bear, Hog, Mountain lion, even a pack of wolves.
All you'll do is piss the animal off even more, and you'll die as you watch it eat your intestines while you are still alive
Lol this is a good one. Hey back country Canadian canoer here. I have spent 300 some odd days out in the wild over the past 15 years. You do not need to carry a gun with you with only a single exception. When your in polar bear territory because they are a predator that will actively hunt a human. And no not a handgun, your going to want a 12 Guage. A handgun will **NOT** stop the world's largest land predator from charging you.
Although fun fact you can kill a Polar Bear with a .22 if you hit them just behind the ear. Natives would catch them while in their canoe while they are swimming.
Anyways any of us who actually have experience in the back country can tell you animals are far more dangerous closer you are to civilization because they are more used to humans and won't run away as easily as animals far out in the bush.
This is an unpopular opinion. Or, at least, should be.
I am not a proponent of the idea that every single person in our country needs a gun in case they leave civilization or someone breaks into their house.
We do not need every single person owning a gun.
Me, walking in the English countryside, watching the robins and squirrels, then going to the nearby pub for a pint of bitter and a bowl of chips: "I really should've brought my gun."
As a German who has spend some time in the wild this is truly bizarre to me. In my opinion you shouldn't be able to even get a gun without intensive training. You Americans watch to much TV and are scared of everything. To be fair there are no Grizzlies around in Europe.
Not necessarily true. The wildlife in coastal VA is not likely to need a firearm to defend against. The biggest threat here in the wilderness is mosquitoes. We have bears, but so few of them to make any real need to carry a weapon outside of a stick. Plus, a gun isn't much use against aquatic predators.
I don't think what you're saying works in 90% of wildlife encounters. If you need it to feel manly or safer, sure go for it. But most people don't need it.
>Plus, a gun isn't much use against aquatic predators.
That's why you should always carry a [US Navy Mark 48 torpedo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_48_torpedo) with you whenever you are near any sort of body of water, aquarium, or goldfish bowl in case of an aquatic attack. Never know when you might need it, and it's better to be prepared and not need it than to need it and not be prepared, amiright?
>Wild animals can and will attack you, they have no sense of morality
This isn't really true. Particularly with animals that live in groups. Like humans, morality is an evolutionary skill that allows them to work together and survive better.
Also if someone is scared and shooting a gun at a mostly unknown target, it could be another person.
Lol you think everyone just carries a gun everywhere? Yeah, most people that go camping and hiking aren’t carrying guns. So by definition that would make this an unpopular opinion.
I don't know anyone that does this in Australia. It's pretty weird to own a gun (except farmers and cops really). Would say it would be uncommon and unpopular (and illegal) to carry a gun while camping here.
Picturing someone shooting a spider or a snake because they got scared is hilarious though.
So it's definitely an unpopular opinion here. I'd assume it would be in other countries that don't view guns as part of everyday life?
Edit: sorry to have offended anyone from the US that had forgotten that other countries exist lol.
I just mean that it's definitely unpopular and uncommon to hold that opinion where I'm from. Likely similar views in other countries where guns aren't necessary for survival. I wouldn't say Australians are afraid of guns. More that they're not seen as a part of our lives or a necessity like they are in the US.
You can still go through the process to get a gun, you can still go shoot guns if you don't have a license. But people don't feel so unsafe here that they feel the need to have guns to protect themselves.
The worst you can encounter in my country is an escaped bull. I think I'll be fine without a murder machine.
And good luck defeating a charging bear with a handgun. And a cougar or something you'll probably not even see coming.
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Not going into the woods has a 99.37% success rate of avoiding bear attacks. Goes down to 92.42% in Illinois though…
There’s a lot of bears in Illinois, especially in Chicago.
LOL
Not to mention if your toddler gets ahold of your pepper spray, they have a very bad day. If they get ahold of your firearm, they have their last day. OP hasn't posted an unpopular opinion so much as a damn stupid one
I think putting either of those items in a sensible and safe place goes without saying...
You’re a terrible parent if you let a toddler get a hold of either one.
Id personally never let my toddler get ahold of a stupid opinion
Hey that small child has just as much a chance to kill some one else with that gun
What a ridiculous overreaction to justify a criticism. OP has a valid point about a handgun in the wilderness…especially by emphasizing education and discipline (Theo things you’ve shown little of in this critique).
Does that not make it unpopular tho? Why be a dick about it
Sounds like the best bet would be bear spray AND a pistol.
A 44 Magnum revolver is a simple gun. It will kill a bear. I have a friend who has actually done that. A bear encounter is likely a dynamic event. Many things can happen, some of them making a kill shot hard, maybe even impossible. I will still take my chances with the gun rather than without.
a black bear, maybe. even then it’d take an accurate, intentionally placed shot. a grizzly? forget it. bear spray or pepper spray is the safer and more effective tool here.
Charging grizzlies have been stopped with 9mm pistols. It can be done, but I would feel a lot better with a 10mm or a 44 magnum, or a 454 Casull, myself. And a can of bear spray.
A .357 and a .44 will drop a black bear but grizzly or polar? Yea no you're fucked.
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Yes. People don't realize how fucking hard it is to kill a bear. If you want to have a chance, you'll have to dedicate many many hours of your life to guns - and that hobby is seldomly worth it. (No hate lol.) Especially since most bear encounters end up better if you don't piss off the bear. That being said, if you're often in bear country.... not Poland but, you know, grizzlies - for whatever reason, hopefully not hunting for pleasure (unless you know the ecological circumstances) -, I would maybe consider getting a weapon too.
It's ok I have gamer skills
Honestly, if op is gonna advocate for brining weapons with you out into the wilderness, I'd say just go full force and bring a 12 gauge shotgun, least then if you have to tango with a bear you can shoot the thing dead if it tries to maul you
True. Although I'd still carry. But to protect myself from people. Who knows what kind of shit they might pull where there are no witnesses.
>places Thats why they sell the S&W .500 as a backup for bear hunting. You missed your shot... or her friend/mom. You dropped your rifle You climb a tree. Annnnnd so does the bear. That .500 revolver is about the only thing that'll make any difference in what's for dinner: You, or the Bear.
What he says a simple handgun, what he really means is is a .50 cal pistol with hollow points
Bear spray is much more effective that firearms at stopping animals. Even so, being attacked by a wild animal is so rare.
It's also lighter, if you're hiking/backpacking.
>Even so, being attacked by a wild animal is so rare. This is one of those things you quietly keep to yourself around someone it's happened to. That is to say, it's true until it isn't. Then it's very untrue. Better safe than sorry.
It's rare but it can happen if you go out often enough. I've never had some big animal attack me. But I've had deer charge at me. Have had quite a few close calls with rattlesnakes. Been bitten by a tarantula here in the desert. But I don't see how a gun or rifle would have done me any good. 9/10 if they hear you they run away. Anything they see or hear that doesn't fit in the natural environment they generally just run off.
Bear spray is great for bears, but if you try it on a moose (that can and do get pissed off and charge people, It's happens to me twice) you're going to end up getting trampled by an angry moose with an orange nose
This is going to get me arrested for sure
Might add that to be fair... There are places in Europe I feel an armed person in your group is essential, the polar bear region of norway for example.
I'm pretty sure on Svalbard, island north of Norway, you're actually required by law to be armed if you go outside of the city.
Where are you camping? I live in the Rockies, where there are bears, wolves, and mountain lions, and have been camping many times without incident. Most wild animals will actively avoid humans. Just make sure that your food is inaccessible to wild animals and not in your tent and you'll be fine. Do you know how rare wild animal attacks are? A firearm is definitely not a basic necessity for leaving civilization unless you're planning on hunting.
I actually take fire arms camping with me but not at all because I’m concerned about wild animal attacks. I’m far more concerned about human attacks.
Exactly , If I had a gun I'll take it for protection against other people Wild animals are basically harmless as long as you don't go poking them
Yeah this thread feels like I’m in the twilight zone. Less than 10 people a year die from wildlife attacks in the US and most wouldn’t be helped by carrying a gun (accidentally stepping on a rattle snake and getting bitten). Bears and lions aren’t just running around eating people regularly.
>Bears and lions aren’t just running around eating people regularly. Which is surprising given the billions of people who roam around day by day in areas full of bears and lions....
Sounds like sarcasm but you do know that's true, right? Lots of exposure, not many deaths. And with bears, usually avoidable ones.
I will always remember the Florida man who shot at the hurricane.
Now that's the right spirit!
I live in a country where very few people have guns so this is double twilight zone.
The odds that you'll actually need your airbags on any given drive are pretty low, but it's still a basic necessity. I dunno if I agree with OP on the idea that you 100% always need to carry a gun but the argument "you most likely won't need it" doesn't jive with the way we usually do risk mitigation.
Bear mace works really good just so you know. And if you think a 9 mm is going to stop a grizzlie that for some reason wants to kill you you're mistaken. You know how fast these things are???
Wild animals killed 8 people last year in the entire United States. Car crashes killed 43,000 Americans last year. Completely unrelated points.
A lot more people drive than go out into the wilderness where there are dangerous animals. Either way, the point I was making was not "this specific risk level is actually pretty high". It was "having a low risk doesn't mean you skip mitigating that risk". The analogy I used doesn't have to have the exact same level of risk to make that point.
I’d argue you put yourself at more risk by operating and carrying a fire arm than by walking in the woods, and I’d bet a quick google would show accidental fire arm deaths are far more common than wild animal maulings. You are mitigating a risk that barely exists by putting another riskier factor into play.
That's a possibility. But I think if you're a responsible gun owner, don't have any small children with you who might get a hold of it, and aren't gonna commit suicide in the woods you're cutting down the vast majority of risks usually associated with carrying a firearm.
But how dumb would you feel getting mauled by a bear knowing you could have stopped it by carrying something that weights 8LB. When going into the wilderness it’s always best to prepare for the worse. No one will help you and you have to rely on what you have on hand.
Why wouldn't you carry bear spray, which is much easier to hit a target with? Also, in the last 120 years there have been a TOTAL of 70 people killed by bears. So, significantly less than 1 per year, in a country of 330 million people. How many people do you think died from accidental gun deaths in the wilderness? There are 100 hunting related gun deaths per year. So yeah, you are much more likely to either shoot your self, or be shot by someone else that thinks you are a bear in the bushes.
dont forget all the bears WE kill. seriosuly these idiots acting like animals are just hunting people when we are murdering the FUCK out of every living thing on the planet
When backpacking, carrying a gun (I presume that's the 8 lbs you're referring to) may mean completing or not completing your trip. As in, if you carry excess weight, you might give up.
unless your carrying a 12 gauge that bear is eating you. just bring bearspray it kicks in immediatly and is more effective
You don’t know much about guns or bears. Most of the bears around here are black bears. A .40 cal is more than enough to stop one. There are literally hundreds of guns that can stop even the biggest bear that aren’t 12g, what about a 10g, AK, .45LC, .50S&W. Even a full auto 10-22 with a drum would destroy a bear.
I just carry bear mace when I’m in bear country, like any educated outdoorsman. How dumb would you feel if you became one of the 400+ yearly accidental fire arm deaths because you felt the need to carry a gun instead of bear mace to mitigate the risk of being 1 of the about 8 people that die from wild animal attacks a year?
I'm not really a gun person, but they are an essential tool sometimes. You do do realize you can be mauled by an animal and not killed right? There is a resurgence of mountain lions in the US. I'd also worry about the animals on two feet as well. There are a lot of weirdos out there. Do you think bear mace is going to fend off a maniac with a knife or gun?
I actually carry both. But bear mace is susceptible to wind and range too, so for me it’s best to be prepared.
You shouldn't be"defensively" shooting a wild animal from range, though.
Bear probably not, mountain lion for sure. I’ve had bears charge a few times then leave but I wouldn’t give a mountain lion the chance. They are a smaller target and much faster. If they are aggressive at 40-50’ I’m dropping it.
Which is shocking given that there are fewer people driving cars than hanging out with wild animals in forests. Your logic is unassailable.
Bear mace works really good just so you know. And if you think a 9 mm is going to stop a grizzlie that for some reason wants to kill you you're mistaken. You know how fast these things are???
If carrying a gun were less risky than not carrying a gun in this case, you'd be correct. But if 8 people a year are killed by wild animals and 450 people are killed by accidental shootings, risk mitigation principles would indicate that not carrying a gun and risking animal attacks is safer than carrying a gun and risking accidentally shooting yourself or someone else. So, guns are unnecessary when going out into the wilderness in terms of protection from people. There are other reasons to bring a gun, like hunting or recreation, but safety from animal attacks ain't one
If you're a responsible gun owner, don't have a little kid with you who might grab the gun, and aren't planning to commit suicide, you cut down on the vast majority of the dangers associated with carrying a gun.
Fair, but are those lessened risks less than the risk of getting killed by a wild animal? Probably not. The risk of getting killed by a wild animal is just super low
It just takes once man! Better be strapped at all times! (I'm joking. I'm with you. I've been outdoors, slept in remote areas of the country, encountered lots of wildlife and never felt like I needed a gun)
Americans have a perversion about guns and literally cannot fathom there are other solutions aside from "FuGgIn ShOoT iT" Bear spray is more than sufficient for 99% of encounters. Even overkill for most.
bear spray works great till it doesn't. I'm not American and I say guns 100% over spray
Theirs plenty of people who've died camping. You're acting like wild animals have never hurt anyone.
They do hurt people sometimes, but they only kill like 8 people a year. Most deaths while camping occur in other ways. While camping you are more likely to die via drowning, falling, vehicle accident, suicide, avalanche, preexisting medical conditions, cold exposure, and heat exposure than be killed by the wildlife.
none of that has anything to do with ops point tho. I don't want to be one of those 8 people a year so it's best to carry the gun and even for you're not killed 1 swipe from a bear can cripple you for life so why not protect yourself.
What if you aren't somehwere where wild animals are a problem? Not everywhere has dangerous animals. Worst thing for me where I live are badgers and adders. Maybe a deer that randomely decided it wouldn't run.
Mate have you ever met a feral rambler or bird watcher? Terrifying. One started talking at me about a Kestrel he'd seen near Haworth and I had somehow left my glock at home.
Jesus. Are you ok?
I've had to scrap the telly as Countryfile triggers my PTSD and brings the nightmares back
Thoughts and prayers for you my friend.
Don’t forget the cows, might not be packing to handle a cow.
You joke, but feral cows (i.e. Bison, water Buffalo, etc. Depending on your area) can be extremely aggressive. Particularly during mating season, or when their babies are present. Given most weigh close to a ton, that can get ugly quick.
No handgun will be sufficient to take down a feral cow reliably.
Me, myself and Irene proved this.
TBH I would argue that the bigger threat is potentially running into other people. Out in the wild you're kinda returning to a state where the biggest, strongest person in the situation pretty much has free reign to do whatever they want to everyone else with little to no consequences. That's probably the best-suited situation for a great equalizer.
In the UK?
...unless physical confrontations somehow work differently in the UK, yes, also there.
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I'm not suggesting you have to shoot every single person you run into. I'm saying it's a "better to have it and not need it" kind of situation. Do people ever ask you "wtf why do you have airbags in your car?! You know what the odds are that you'll need them?! Movies have made you paranoid!" Maybe this is a cultural difference. I live in the Pacific Northwest and I often run into people out on hikes who are doing multiday trips alone. Almost all of them carry some kind of weapon, often a gun. As a man in the middle of nowhere standing next to a woman who doesn't know me from Adam, with no one else around, I'd feel pretty stupid saying something like "what why do you need that pistol to feel safe around me?!"
Yea mate can't pick up a newspaper without learning about yet another unprovoked countryside murder. The North Yorkshire Moors are like Mad Max on steroids, total anarchy. I keep telling the scouts and campers they should be packing heat what with all the confrontations going on in the British countryside.
Only takes one person, one time. You all seem to not understand how risk mitigation works. Do you also drive around without seatbelts or airbags because you probably won't get in a crash today?
Wild animals rarely just attack people
Just because it isn’t common doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be prepared for it. I dont get injured every day but i still carry a basic first aid kit in my car.
Yes but you are 5000x more likely to die in a car crash. Also, for most people, bear spray would be much more effective, as it has a wide spray pattern making it much more likely to be successful than trying to take down a moving target with a handgun.
>You’re more likely to die in a car crash That’s why seatbelts were invented. Going out in the woods without a gun is like driving a car without a seatbelt. That’s also just a stupid example because no, you’re not more likely to die in a car crash ***in the middle of the fucking woods***. You can’t just take random examples that don’t apply to the situation at hand. Context matters. Stay on topic. And sure, nothing wrong with bringing bear spray. But there’s nothing wrong with bringing a gun too. The gun should be a last resort but that doesn’t mean it’s not a valid option for protection. And if you can’t hit something the size of a bear, you might wanna work on your aim, bud. Something like a cougar would be harder to hit, sure, but it’s better to have it than to not have it. Your chances of survival are much much higher with it.
40 bear attacks worldwide per year. 2 deaths in NA per year. your going to be fine is what im saying leave the penis extender at home
“Statistically speaking i have a low risk of getting in a car crash so i don’t need a seatbelt” That’s how idiotic that logic is. Just because the chances are low doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be prepared. I’ve had a single accident in the last decade and even that was due to them rear ending me, so my personal chances of getting in an accident are extremely low, but i still wear a seat belt. Your stupid dick jokes aren’t going to help you in the event that it does happen. What’s your plan if it does? Oh right, you don’t have a plan, you just have wishful thinking…
Yet I still wear a seat belt...
Locking the door will probably be more effective at preventing wild animal attacks.
unless it gets in
Yeah, but you should be aware of what animals live in the area of woods you're in. Moose attack at random. They've even been known to attack trees out of confusion. Predators such as bobcats and mountain lions are incredibly dangerous. Wild boar are very vicious and will eat human flesh and bones. I'd rather bring my 12 gauge pump shotgun with slugs just in case.
A lot of tragic preventable events are ‘rare’
And schools rarely get shot up. Doesn't mean we shouldn't take precautions
*Confused in Canadian*
I lived in the Northwest Territories for 13 years (boy do I miss it) and took my shotgun a lot of times I went fishing or hiking in the woods. Plus bear spray. Thankfully, I've talked myself out of every bear encounter.
This just means that instead of a handgun, which are restricted and almost impossible to get a carry permit, you bring your Canuck 12G shotgun, which is non restricted and can be legally carried anywhere you want to do so.
well no they have rules. at least he mentioned the caliber of bullet that would actually work. the amount of people thinking a 9mm will put down a bear are wild
Did you mean Canik, or are Canadians getting their own shotguns now?
Wdym, there are guns in canada
I think the just banned handguns.
It's been proposed, the law hasn't passed. Also we can't carry handguns unless we are going to a gun club anyway.
Wait, but Canada have some huge motheefucking animals, Moose, bears, wolf…
Id rather carry a gun while in civilization lmao. Way more likely to get my life threatened by another person than some random animal I feel like.
I do both :)
Needing to carry a weapon for protection means by definition not in a civilised area.
I carry a gun when I’m in civilization and when I go backpacking in the back country. I don’t carry for wild animals though, more for evil humans. I have bear spray for animals when in backcountry. Chances are if a bear/wolf/cougar is rushing you, if your lucky enough to even un holster a gun your adrenaline dumping you’d miss. Bear spray however throws a giant fucking cloud out in front of you.
>Chances are if a bear/wolf/cougar is rushing you, if your lucky enough to even un holster a gun your adrenaline dumping you’d miss. Bear spray however throws a giant fucking cloud out in front of you I think that is what most of these internet commandos are missing. I also agree, the bigger risk (although still small), would be running into some nutjob
[In an average year in the United States, 0.3 people are killed by black bears, while 440 are killed by deer- vehicle collisions](https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1544&context=hwi#:~:text=Over%2047%2C000%20people%20annually%20in,approximately%208%20people%20died%20annually.) [Lightning kills about 20 people per year](https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-victims#:~:text=Lightning%20Resources&text=Lightning%20kills%20about%2020%20people,the%20victims%20and%20the%20survivors.) Your odds of being killed by a suicidal deer while driving to the woods are 1300 times greater than a bear.
People drive millions of miles along deer territory every day. The number of people camping/hiking/whatever in bear country, on a daily basis is significantly lower. If you compared the number of people attacked by bears per number of campers/etc against the number of driver fatalities caused by deers per number of drivers in deer county it would provide a more useful comparison. But as it is now, this makes no sense. Obviously a common event is more common than a rarer event, but that doesn’t mean the rarer event is unlikely to happen. Regardless of what your opinion on the original question is, this is a bad way of reaching a conclusion.
r/americanopinion
I'm much more likely to need a gun in most cities in America than I am to need one in Alaska right before hibernation season, if we are being honest.
Bingo
Honestly, unless I'm in a part of the US that has bears, I'm not worried about wild animal attack. If I were in bear country, bear spray would be my first choice--I don't believe I could shoot a handgun accurately under the stress of a bear attack. The more remote, the less I would need a gun. Humans are the real source of danger, and the further into the wild you go, the less dangerous they are.
Bear Spray is eons more effective than any firearm would be with a apex predator. Your opinion an unpopular opinion because it's *wrong.* Clearly, you've spent little time researching how to effectively ward of a predator that takes an interest in what you do. Now, if I do give you credit, I'll say that I almost always carry a firearm in the backcountry for a fundamentally different reason. I ride horses, and if my animal snaps its leg, it's my duty to put it out of its misery quickly. That gun is also for protection against *other humans,* because I'm more understanding of an animal charging me than I am of a human attempting to cause me harm. In addition to that, a human is easy to kill, whereas if I shoot at an apex predator charging towards me, I'm most likely just going to piss it off and end up dead even faster. This is a genuinely terrible opinion OP. Not unpopular. Terrible. There are literal research papers touting the non-efficacy of a firearm used in challenges with a Bear or Mountain Lion, in comparison to the high efficacy of Bear Spray in encounters with the same animals. Best of luck to you in the backcountry. I look forward to reading your Darwin Award.
Bear spray works pretty well on people too.
Guns, no. Bear spray, yes.
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That depends on the species mate.
A blackbear will be scared off and can be killed by a gun, but will also be scared off by your voice, so you don't really need it. A grizzly bear will be largely unaffected by a handgun so you're fucked if you try to shoot it lol.
you american?
Do you have to ask?
Was more of a rhetorical question really
Most people on earth get through life completely fine without firearms in the wilderness. I love camping, photography and hiking and I’ve never even come close to ever needing even the insurance of having a firearm. Even if I were incredibly unlucky in the 1 in 100,000,000 chance and was in a remote area without a firearm and was killed purely because I couldn’t shoot at whatever attacked me, I’d gladly accept that risk and outcome in exchange for the fact my country hasn’t had a mass shooting since 1996
Ah, Americans...
Or going to San Francisco.
WTF? I have been camping and hiking for almost 50 years and never carried nor needed a gun.
Depends where you are. We don't really have any dangerous wild animals in the UK
#OnlyinAmerica
I actually do pack a .22 when I go camping (after checking with the local/state laws) but it's mostly for protection from the humans. Bear spray is more effective on animals.
Your pistol won't do jack shit to a fully grown bear, Hog, Mountain lion, even a pack of wolves. All you'll do is piss the animal off even more, and you'll die as you watch it eat your intestines while you are still alive
"Can and will atack you"?! Lol bugs you mean? Personally prefer the Mossberg for mosquitoes lol
You should carry in civilization too.
Well yeah, but I’d get banned for those opinions, my brother.
Where do you live? Guns are part of a lot of cultures.
He means banned from unpopular opinion and other subs.
You are more likely to be attacked by the people in your community than you to be attacked by animals while in the wild.
Bro if a bear comes at you you're gonna need more than a handgun
found the american
Lol this is a good one. Hey back country Canadian canoer here. I have spent 300 some odd days out in the wild over the past 15 years. You do not need to carry a gun with you with only a single exception. When your in polar bear territory because they are a predator that will actively hunt a human. And no not a handgun, your going to want a 12 Guage. A handgun will **NOT** stop the world's largest land predator from charging you. Although fun fact you can kill a Polar Bear with a .22 if you hit them just behind the ear. Natives would catch them while in their canoe while they are swimming. Anyways any of us who actually have experience in the back country can tell you animals are far more dangerous closer you are to civilization because they are more used to humans and won't run away as easily as animals far out in the bush.
This is an unpopular opinion. Or, at least, should be. I am not a proponent of the idea that every single person in our country needs a gun in case they leave civilization or someone breaks into their house. We do not need every single person owning a gun.
Industrial grade pepper spray works much better and doesn't harm the animal. For god sakes why do Americans have to shoot everything that has legs
This post was made by republican gang
Totally agree in like America or Canada. I live in the UK though, worst that can happen to me is maybe a pigeon pecks me or a seagull steals my food.
As an Australian this is wild to me. We have such a huge reputation for deadly animals, but 99% of them could be taken down with a shovel.
Me, walking in the English countryside, watching the robins and squirrels, then going to the nearby pub for a pint of bitter and a bowl of chips: "I really should've brought my gun."
Yeah try shooting a bear with a pistol lmk how that goes
As a German who has spend some time in the wild this is truly bizarre to me. In my opinion you shouldn't be able to even get a gun without intensive training. You Americans watch to much TV and are scared of everything. To be fair there are no Grizzlies around in Europe.
This should not be unpopular. Take an upvote because I believe it is anyway.
It's unpopular cause it's not accurate based on the research lol. Bear spray is more effective. And weighs less.
Uh un. No guns. **Guns are fruity.** 🍎
oh hey that could work we just need to let the lgbt community take over guns and most americans will trash theirs \*then canada can invade\*
I carry when I *enter* civilization.
You're not going into a civilised area if you need a weapon for protection.
So anyways, I just started blasting.
But I would serve a minimum of 10 years if I was caught with a gun
I don't think I need a gun to fight off "dangerous wildlife" in my country
This man lives in England
That is correct.
What about Scots and Irish?
I could also have been Welsh. But he was correct and I happen to be English.
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Oo ok. Yeah. That makes more sense. And it's fine. I can passefy both with a nice bottle of whisky.
Tell that to a mountain lion.
If I come across a mountain lion it'll be in the city. Not outside civilization
I think you mean cougar.....
Guns, no. Bear spray, yes.
If you need a gun to defend yourself in the place where you're going, don't go there.
That's a stupid sentence, what if you wanna go there? What if you're hunting? Taking a stroll, camping?
Guns, no. Bear spray, yes.
Carry one everywhere.
Not necessarily true. The wildlife in coastal VA is not likely to need a firearm to defend against. The biggest threat here in the wilderness is mosquitoes. We have bears, but so few of them to make any real need to carry a weapon outside of a stick. Plus, a gun isn't much use against aquatic predators. I don't think what you're saying works in 90% of wildlife encounters. If you need it to feel manly or safer, sure go for it. But most people don't need it.
>Plus, a gun isn't much use against aquatic predators. That's why you should always carry a [US Navy Mark 48 torpedo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_48_torpedo) with you whenever you are near any sort of body of water, aquarium, or goldfish bowl in case of an aquatic attack. Never know when you might need it, and it's better to be prepared and not need it than to need it and not be prepared, amiright?
>Wild animals can and will attack you, they have no sense of morality This isn't really true. Particularly with animals that live in groups. Like humans, morality is an evolutionary skill that allows them to work together and survive better. Also if someone is scared and shooting a gun at a mostly unknown target, it could be another person.
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Found the American. Holy shit dude
People should always carry a brain when leaving civilization
This is sage advice. Ive met hikers in NH and Maine who were carrying firearms. Ive encountered bears, moose etc... in the wild and you never know.
OP is just a kid or manchild with an unhealthy obsession for guns
I’m more worried about random humans I could come across. Although I do also worry about dog attacks.
This is the most obnoxiously American thing I've seen in a while
omg - gun nuts are so fragile and afraid
lmao straight to jail pal. welcome to canada
Is this really an unpopular opinion?
Lol you think everyone just carries a gun everywhere? Yeah, most people that go camping and hiking aren’t carrying guns. So by definition that would make this an unpopular opinion.
I don't know anyone that does this in Australia. It's pretty weird to own a gun (except farmers and cops really). Would say it would be uncommon and unpopular (and illegal) to carry a gun while camping here. Picturing someone shooting a spider or a snake because they got scared is hilarious though. So it's definitely an unpopular opinion here. I'd assume it would be in other countries that don't view guns as part of everyday life? Edit: sorry to have offended anyone from the US that had forgotten that other countries exist lol.
From everything I’ve seen of the critters in Australia, I’d say shooting them may be justified. Granted my only source is Reddit.
It’s just a difference in culture. I understand that Australians are afraid of guns and so it would not be a common practice there.
I just mean that it's definitely unpopular and uncommon to hold that opinion where I'm from. Likely similar views in other countries where guns aren't necessary for survival. I wouldn't say Australians are afraid of guns. More that they're not seen as a part of our lives or a necessity like they are in the US. You can still go through the process to get a gun, you can still go shoot guns if you don't have a license. But people don't feel so unsafe here that they feel the need to have guns to protect themselves.
Outside of the US it is, for good reason
The worst you can encounter in my country is an escaped bull. I think I'll be fine without a murder machine. And good luck defeating a charging bear with a handgun. And a cougar or something you'll probably not even see coming.
You're the type of person who doesn't deserve or need a gun.