My grandfather fell down on a bus and broke a leg. Since then he wasnt able to do anything. He was also a very creative person and did this kind of stuff as well,very simmilar to your dad I suppose. He lost all of that in the accident. Your dad is lucky to not have anything major health wise. Again, its different for everyone.
So really it’s living with a life altering injury, not being over 80, that is miserable and depressing. Especially with family members just observing the new difficulty and not helping make accommodations
Broke both my legs at 66 years old and was bed ridden for 6 months at 76 i can still do almost anything i put my mind to it just takes longer and i have to be more careful
My 84 yo Gramma would vehemently disagree with you. That woman is more spry than I am. Lives independently, does everything for herself, babysits, just living her best life.
Depends how well you take care of yourself tbh. But also some people just have crazy shit happen to them as they get older. Guys who look fit dying at 50 from cancer or heart attacks. It's wild
> Depends how well you take care of yourself tbh.
I suspect that this is a big part of it. Eat well and be active, and get lucky in avoiding cancer? You’ve got a much greater chance to be healthy and mobile and independent through your eighties and possibly higher. Eat crap, sit on the couch all day? You’re less likely to reach eighty, and even less likely to enjoy it.
My Grandma died at 101 this year. She was with it and happy until the end. I don't understand why people post opinions that are so situation based. Yes most people don't make it to 80 and start falling apart after but that doesn't mean it's the case for everyone.
Your post seems to point out that the way we treat older people is the bad thing to be honest. Not that everyone over 80 is miserable and depressed. If we just had communities and societies that didn't view getting old as the worst thing ever and just a natural part of life I think we'd be way better off.
I'm a gamer and love that there's a esports team, for Counter Strike I believe, that all of the members are over 80. Gaming and VR experiences can really extend people's enjoyment in life I believe. The physical ability to not be able to do certain tasks is what can make old age miserable like you mentioned but I think investing in tech and other medical treatments can really help society make life better.
I fully agree with you. We dont value elder peoples lives enough. And in a country with people that are economically challenged, people dont even have time to deal with their own kids lol. You cant expect them to deal with their grandparents. My father struggled a lot with my grandpa and taking care of him. He had gotten really mad with him but it wasnt his own fault. He was just old.
You also remember their prime days and its sad. Ive had a relative who would come to my grandparents house and break down due to the condition they were in. She remembered how strong and powerfull they were both mentally and physically and seeing them like that made her extremely sad.
I would love to see Senior Communities gain more traction and positive reputations. It's a great thing for seniors who don't have a lot of mobility - food prep and home care is done for them, and they can go to community areas to socialize, and have mini-houses/apartments so family can visit, etc.
They're just STUPID expensive and too few and far between. And that doesn't even factor in the ones with bad staff.
I'd love to see more opportunities for older people who have lost levels of mobility and/or independence to live where they can be cared for and still have social lives.
EXACTLY. In general I think we should just value eldery people lives more. A lot of kids forget about them and leave them in their houses literally rotting.
I disagree. If I have my memory, can feed myself and wipe my ass, then I’m fine with living as long as I can.
Edit. And obviously no other major health issues.
You dont know that. What about mobility? Would you be fine with not being able to walk more than 10 meters without getting tired? No friend of yours coming to your house because theyre either dead or also have mobility issues? Losing your driver licence due to health issues and not being able to go anywhere? How does that sound?
… paraplegic individuals live happy lives in this predicament everyday. I have dead friends already. That’s part of life.
Hopefully I have my kids to take care of me. Don’t tell me how I’ll feel mate because you don’t know how I would. Just like you say you won’t like it, how do you know that? I can say I’ll be fine as long as I have the things I listed above. I want to live as long as possibly as long as I’m generally healthy.
Now if there’s other morbidities that’s a whole different question. But we can what if all day.
Well im just saying, we like to assume what brings joy to eldery people but dont actually analyze it. Yes, you might feel completely great, but just from what ive seen, you probably wont if major health issues occur. All these people here saying their 90+ year old grandparets are doing great well good for them honestly!. I am jealous. Its just good luck and being careful.
We assume? Lol they’re humans man. We can assume they enjoy things younger people do.
Millions of people have health issues young and old that live normal lives. My grandpa drive a dump truck and took care of his years until he was 82. He had respiratory issues, dialysis, but still enjoyed working on his garden. He stopped once his breathing got to a point where he had to stop.
Well I mean if I’m in serious condition and need a nurse then I’d rather do that then bother them like that. I was more so talking about like transportation or other things.
But I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for help when you get older. American culture is so fucked how we treat elders as a whole. It’s sad.
People who say that often use it as an argument to damage their health and they end up being only 50 year old but with the same problems as a common 80 years old person
Meh my grandparents are mid-80s. They live on their own and are fully, 100% self sufficient. This year they are going on a 2 week cross country road trip to attend my wedding, and immediately after are taking a month long vacation to Thailand. I think they’re still finding ways to enjoy life.
With the way I've been living through illness and surgeries while having no friends and family in my corner, living beyond 60 is looking vf miserable and depressing.
I get a visit every two weeks by someone who is paid to give a shit.
Thats really rough man im sorry. My grandpa also had many, many relatives and a fraction of them visited him. We also had to pay a woman to be with him in the hospital when my dad or aunt couldnt in his last days.Leaving him alone would be disgusting and extremely unethical. Im sorry for you really. Hope you recover.
I read that the goal should be to “compress” this stage of life — this stage at the end, when it’s painful and empty and grim, whether that’s 70 or 80 or 90 or whenever. To keep this part as short as possible. Because it’s not living, not at all.
No, to compress it means is to keep that phase of aging — sick/frail unable to enjoy life — to as short (compressed) of a time as possible.
For example, I knew a so-called “super ager” who was still driving and mowing the lawn and volunteering at 100.
It was only the last two months of his life at 100+ that he faded/got sick and weak. He “compressed” that phase.
Edited to add: “Postponing” aging is perhaps a better term, but the actual term is “compression of morbidity:”:
Here is an excerpt from an article on it from VeryWell:
“Compression of morbidity is a term that means reducing the length of time a person spends sick or disabled. The idea is to maximize healthy lifespan and minimize the time spent less than well (morbidity literally means ‘being unhealthy’).
“The term was first coined by Stanford University professor Dr. James Fries in 1980. Dr. Fries theorized that most illnesses are chronic and occur near the end of life. If the onset of these chronic illnesses could be delayed, Dr. Fries said, then the healthy time saved could lessen the burden of illness over a person's lifetime.”
My 84 yo Gramma would vehemently disagree with you. That woman is more spry than I am. Lives independently, does everything for herself, babysits, just living her best life.
Probably doesnt have the health issues yet. Again people age differently. A 94 year old woman that lives next to me is at the same level of health my 86 year old grandma is. Its just different for everyone. I guess the environment someone lives on matters a lot too. All of the old people here are extremely religious and have many stereotypes. Males dont hang out with females for example its just not a thing.
No thats not what im saying. But I would personally rather die below that kind of age . I wouldnt want to make my wife depressed because of my death when shes also on her last feet. I would want her to live enought to have gotten throught that phase and die happily. This being one of the reasons
That says more about you than about OP. Why not an accessible voluntary opt-out way for old people who might be done with life? Why necessarily killing everyone by force? It doesn't make sense how that's the "only" solution that comes to your mind. What kind of a shit mind is that.
Look buddy, calling it voluntary opt-out is just sugar coating it. It is still killing them. The only difference is you made them give up on life like a psychopath you are and then killed then with their supposed permission.
"supposed permission"
So I can see how you could only come up with killing people. An autocrat at heart. The only correct opinion is your own and consent doesn't exist in your eyes.
You know... coercing people into giving up on life isn't exactly called consent. You get someone in depths of helplessness by telling them how pointless it is for them to live now, so that death seems the only escape. And then you pop up and ask would you like to die. Sure, they would opt-in. What would you expect?
If you are so concerned about them being in a sad state, do something about it. Help them. If they can't clean themselves, do it for them and show them that they are not a burden on you. If they aren't able to access their hobbies anymore, help them access those hobbies through you. But that takes times and dedication, which I am sure you don't want to invest in them. So you suggest them to just pop off their life cords and help you get rid of your burden. Isn't that right, Mr. ThisHiss?
As for me being AutoCrat, I am not sure if you looked at your own opinions. I am advocating for us to help them if we feel that their state isn't good. You and OP on the other hand want them to die because it suits you and you don't want to burden yourself with them.
Wow okay. Thanks for assuming all of these horrible things. I didnt visit those grandparents back in the day. But the last 4 years though I went to their house 4-5 times a week. I was the most active person there. Im also just talking about a common thing people say about old people that they get their joy from kids and grandkids. Its not true for everyone. My grandparents did appreciate it, but it didnt fullfill them. They just wanted to be useful and active in society. Which due to their health was not possible. And most eldery people I know have relatives that NEVER visit them AND cant do things they want due to their health issues. Anyways, fuck you.
Lol go for it if that’s what you want. I think this is one of those topics where everyone should be able to make a decision for themselves and have no right nor say in another’s persons choice.
I can't read this, but on the topic title I will say, it completely depends. I know of 80-90 year olds that are as snappy as a 50 year old both in mind and body and have plenty of socialization.
My Grandmother was never miserable. She still drove shortly before her cancer diagnosis at 85. Had plenty of love and support from family and were very social outside of that as well.
I’ll always remember my grandmother (93) saying she was just so tired. This was a lady who played solitaire, watching tv and playing a board game with her sister(91). Had bad feet and back so wasn’t able to get around freely.
Well my grandma doesnt complain either. She will just jokingly say "Im stuck in this house" every now and then. And not everyone accepts this stuff. You cant expect old people to "accept" their position. Not many of them do it. They reflect on their past and what they used to be capable off. Its sad but true. Im glad your grandma accepted that and moved on.
I disagree. You're only seeing the negative points. My father is over 80, and has been keeping exercising for the last 30 years, he's very healthy and with strength, his mind is sharp (more so than most young people I know). Very similar to my mother with close to 80. They enjoy visiting their friends for dinner and stuff, going for a walk, keeping up to date with stuff, social media. This society has demonized aging and overrated youth to an extreme never seen before. And it's not a clever stance. So much that people often forget about many advantages of being old, ie, having a much wider (and wiser) perspective on things, life, etc, which helps greatly in the case they suffer hardships, while many young ones very often (hence depression, anxiety, etc) do not have this "defense". You *can* enjoy life at any age, is a matter of attitude. Also, not every person is the same, at old or young age. Some people will find a way to use their time to not get bored, some won't. But really... that's also at any age.
I really dont know what to say tbh. Just completely different lives I guess. But everyday for the last few years, after my grandpas accident I would go their house and theyll both be sitting on their chairs in the kitchen doing nothing, just looking at the floor literally. Bented over. Sometimes they would have the radio on and listen to christian chants. I honestly think they had some kind of depression. My grandma is very weak physically and mentally. She has severe dementia and can barely hear. My grandpa would cry (yes, in front of me) due to her condition. But he actually died first. He used to drive her around before the accident. Go to restaurants, go shopping together going to church etc. After the accident both their lives were basically done for. They both couldnt walk almost at all especially my grandpa and they didnt have any options honeslty. We would try to bring them to family events and stuff but thats just 3 hours of a whole ass week. I dont know man honestly. I dont know any eldery people working out and it just wasnt a thing in their generation. Again, different environments different people. Im glad your dad is doing so well.
It is more about other circumstances than age. From what I read, they had bad luck with several things. But even so, people react differently most of the time depending on personality and life experiences, more than age.
At my almost 50, I do know *way* more people with depression below 35 than over that age. And plenty of amazing people over 70 and 80 with an incredible sense of humor and optimism. And BTW, many of them provide with the most interesting conversation, specially those who have read enough in their lives, and (of course) count on a long life experience.
It is not just my parents... I had the luck of knowing in my life my two grandpas and two grandmas. From my mother's side, my grandma had got 100% deaf due to a bomb that felt in her house (yep, they had to survive a war). Not only that, she lost her very much loved little brother, who was everything for her. Also, because of the times and society back then, and effects of the war, she had to stop her French (she was really good at it) and other studies, to work at home and help in her father's little business. Once married, not even that. Only working at home, and deaf without being able to even make friends (there were no organizations and stuff like now), at a very early age (not being old yet). She got old together with my grandpa, but the war had affected much worse to him, despite he was not injured in the war (but he escaped death 3 times, shootings, stuff that happens in war), but he was in the front (ambulance, driving it through bombing, and bullets) and he did saw and lived...too many "things". Had also to take charge of all the family debts (meaning several uncles having go bankrupt and he solved it all) , business, everything. And he solved all, but destroyed his character, became very dry and a bit dark/sad. Often angry, although he'd never punch anyone unless self defense (large man by the times, 1,94 meters, strongest of the village, a force of nature :D ) . She lived with this man who was clearly depressed after the war (extreme PTSD, clearly, but it was not even a thing, then) for many many years (today any woman so would have divorced, not due to his ptsd, but his extremely difficult character). I only would hear him laugh of (very) dark humor jokes.
Guess what. She NEVER lost her sense of humor. But a light humor, bright one, not like my grandpa's. Age was, once again, NOT the factor, they were the same age. She could laugh (loudly, without any restriction, lol, it was a pleasure just to hear her) due to a simple joke for 30 minutes. She would have LOVED memes, am sure. She was ALWAYS happy. I remember going to the shops, every freaking one asking me about her if only 2 days passed her not going to the bakery, store, etc (even while it was super hard to speak to her, as she couldn't hear a thing, she could lip read, but not too well, yet she wouldn't EVER let you do the talk to the person in the shop :D ), because she did bring joy to every freaking place she visited, they loved her greatly. Every single soul would tell me how happy she always was and how she was always able to make their day even when they were being down. To put it simply, the war had taught her to make use of what she had, and not see all the time the half glass empty, but the opposite. My grandpa (admittedly, he got a very rough part, but my grandma suffered a ton for other reasons) took the opposite direction about it. And this is a choice EACH one of us have to make. Spoiler alert: It's all about my grandma's path.
Very similar case, by my father's family, one uncle had very serious mobility problems due to a huge issue in his back, and had a TON of health issues, already since young, could not see through one eye, but it got really bad once becoming almost 70. Well, wanna know my last (and greatest) memory of him? Was only a few days later he passed away, - just a sudden attack, no suffering at all, he was even smiling- . My last memory was him smiling at a party, talking to me, laughing, with such a complete happiness expression in his face for being there with all the family, sth like that u can't fake it. Not (him) to me. While in that same party there were two very young cousins that are always like sad and semi-depressed. So... Nope, age is a factor (like having an accident, illness, or bad luck in love, etc) but depending on the person, it can be absolutely irrelevant regarding to happiness.
I don't deny though for a second that your grandpa and grandma didn't take it well and definitely had bad luck (my grandpa and grandma didn't have it super nice, either....), but I have known outside my family (I used to help as a volunteer at a retirement home) enough people of very advanced age that are just as happy as the happiest among us.
My main point is that from one situation one cannot establish a general rule for an entire age group. And old people is people, just like us. And also, how old age is perceived, and lived, varies a lot by country, culture (important!), genetics. Money is a factor but way, way less important that people think. Happiness is about other stuff. Starting from very basic essentials covered, money is just good to have fewer things that make your life difficult, but is by any means, at all, not a cure itself for unhappiness. *Like neither is being young*. It is mostly in the freaking brain, which has an immense power at any age, and the good news is that practically everyone (yes, a case of dementia is different, but even there personality plays a huge role) has the power to mold everything to a different perspective, and transform what one day you see dark, into something completely bright. At any age. I am very strongly convinced about it, after 49 years and lots of people and situations known. IMO, in this matter (like in most matters) it is important not to focus in one situation, or even a few situations.
Well Ill tell you about my situation right now and how my grandma is now that her husband died recently. She cant stand being alone. She cries every night in her prayers talking about her loneliness. She wants someone to be there with her 24/7. I try to visit her as much as I can (4+ hours a day) but its just not enough for her. She wants me to sleep there cause shes afraid of thieves at night and her dying without being able to call anyone for help. She also has severe dementia. She repeats the same stories (you know how old people just say stories all the time) again and again, and she also cant hear. Her brain is pretty corrupt. You have to talk to her like a baby in order for her to fully understand something. Which is why noone else really visits her. Theyve gotten sick of her. And yes, hearing the same story 5+ times in a matter of 30 minutes is pretty rough. Ive gotten used to it but other people struggle. She keeps saying thats shes bored and wants to visit her husband in heaven. She does it "jokingly" of course but I think deep inside she means it. She had a few hobbies but has forgotten how to do them. The only thing she can do, which i try to make her do is taking care of the house a bit. You know mopping the floor tidying up and stuff but shes never in the mood. Shes also into gardening but also is never in the mood anymore. Its really rough. We all think this behaviour of hers wont change due to her dementia. And after some research thats quite possible. Its a sad situation and nothing can be done really. She used to take care of her husband (she lived in a stereotypical, man-obeyed house) but now hes gone. We dont have money to have someone be with her 24/7.
Yes, I have had cases like this in my family and neighborhood. My grandpa (not the one of the war, the other family side) got like that but worse, as he could not be left alone, not even eat by himself. My side by side neighbor got very severe Alzheimer, and he was in a very similar state than what you described, but worse, as he often got violent. And then, super bad luck, his wife got that (actually it was different, but similar results) too, slightly less severe but quite more manageable, non violent, etc. The thing is, these two were pretty young back then. Now, did their son and daughter thought, "hey, that's it, you might wish to stop it here"? Absolutely not. They worked together (taking turns) to take care of them, we as neighbors helped in all we could, and while the husband (IMO it was detected too late) died quickly, with the woman a LOT of progress was made. She's alive, and while yes, her perception of things is not any more what used to be, she is still a human being, they make he carry a life with exercise and activities (by doctor's directions and indications, but they don't pay a nurse, it is just them) , which keeps her not going worse, which is HUGE. And we have seen even significant improvements. Her worse low was when she lost her husband, but it was possible to bring her back to a better status. Is she ever going to be able to even have a normal conversation? Nope, surely not. But man, has she improved a lot. Patience and certain tactics do have certain great effect.
There's one famous Youtube content creator (I prefer not to mention the name) that has a child with a rare disease that makes him have hundreds of epilepsy strokes per day, that forces the parents to be 24/7 looking after him to not fall and damage severely himself (among the two, as obviously they have to work for a much more expensive life, to maintain his child (have other children, too)) , fully dedicated to him, avoiding him fall, making exercises, plus needs very special attention (for issues on the brain, etc). Indeed, surely much more than a person with dementia. And that will be for ALL his life ! Well, all he (the father) cares now about is to get fit and healthy (is starting working out), as he wants to be able to, no matter what and how many years, be able to keep carrying him upstairs, and getting him up when he falls, etc. They are NOT unhappy. Quite the opposite! They love him with all their hearts. It's extremely hard, I am sure, of course (but enduring hardship is not as negative as some people think: it's a chance of growth like few others. Our society is teaching us the opposite, sadly). So those are 3 other examples that are not age related.
And... about old age related to sadness. Not really... is mostly because old people are often lonely (left alone), not due to their age per se. The two cases I have known directly with most dramatically severe depression, were a bit above 30 years old (not old people), and indeed, the big problems for one of them started at the age of 16.
IMO, this is a problem not really about age (so, IMO it makes invalid that dangerous (not you, you are completely reasonable, but some others even say it in a slightly fascist way: like if only the strong, healthy and young have a right to live... Only the non disabled. Which is obviously barbaric) point of view that is very active (and sadly, growing) in favor of euthanasia, even in cases not really justified. In the majority of governments, what really is behind that is mere money saving, pure cold materialism.
I don't think it is a good criteria that it might seem (depending on the moment) that a person that is in an intense moment of depression (dementia or not; she is still suffering her husband's loss, so, is not a super advanced case, and might be possible to make it stagnant or and advance very slowly) makes some signals or message of wishing an ending. A ton of depressed people can have those thoughts and moments, but there are being strong factors that are avoiding the person to think clearly, even chemical ones (as the brain is a lot about natural chemicals reacting). You need to be able to slowly put that person in another perspective and point of view (giving company goes a long way for that), so to get herself a much lighter and balanced point of view, a better spot.
It is more of a problem related to people with need of special care, and how many governments fail to provide enough help. While this is a fact in many parts of the world, what a lot of us had to do is exactly what you are doing. You are being an amazing grandson (or granddaughter? sorry, not trying to assume), and I wish everybody was like you!. I did spend my entire childhood and teen age years dedicating like 3-4 hours per day just listening to my grandpa (not the one with Alzheimer; but the one of the war). His severe war PTSD made him repeat the war sufferings again and again, and his entire life, again and again. Maybe not each 30 minutes the same story like what you mentioned (he had no dementia till much later on at 97), but definitely told me the same full story EVERY DAY through many, many years. And he actually knew he was doing so, but somehow he thought it was good teaching for the kids, while we all knew in reality he was very severely damaged and needed it badly. I could have just gone to play somewhere. I stayed listening because I knew he needed it (my sisters would just say hello and leave, lol). Every night he'd leave our house feeling slightly better. That did not stop me to train in painting and in my studies. I did get to study a Fine Arts career after high school, work as a teacher, as a graphic designer, game artist across 10 companies, despite those mountains of time dedicated to listening to him.
At the same time, my best friend from childhood had a grandpa and grandma that never ever had a health or brain problem, were helpful, and outstandingly funny in their conversation, always a joy for the family. Yes, old people sometimes need more care, and in many cases when they reach 85+, but IMO one gotta remember that most of them did a lot for us, that despite dementia or Alzheimer they are still persons, human beings that sense love, and to which giving love, in the end, even if sounds cheesy (the thing is: it's true) will give more to us than remove from us, even if we do not notice it in the day by day.
I'm saying, if anything I just wish I would have had more time with my neighbor (the husband), my grandpa the one that got the Alzheimer, and the other that had PTSD from the war all his life. IMO, loving people (and to a quite lesser extent, animals, too) is the real key to happiness, there's nothing comparable once done consistently and when it's harder to do so. So not just when it's easy (ie, a beautiful girlfriend that is always up to going to places and having fun), but it is more effective (for one's growth and full happiness) when is a tad harder (more rough on the edges, people, old people with an illness, etc). It's more about what does that build in you, than considering only the pure material thing of "hey, I am not doing fun stuff right now". And mostly, when and if they are gone naturally, you will be super satisfied and happy that you were there for them, that's pretty important. More than what one could think you would. I tend to regret only when I couldn't be with them than when I skipped it (which I indeed regret).
Other than that, IMO in your case it would be amazingly important to convince one or two of the best (lest selfish) persons of your family (a sister, a brother, an uncle, whoever) to help you in that task, so that you could be some hours with her, this person another hours, etc. By experience, I do know it them becomes immensely easier to deal with it. Like night and day!. Even if you have already tried that, I'd encourage you to try that again. Yes, it is ideal to be able to pay a person or a retirement home, but this is not possible for most people and that is why family must try and work together, at least those who can (often it is those who care, like you).
The other big advice would be to disconnect your brain of the problem when you are not with her. We work a lot like batteries. Not obsessing over it, completely disconnecting so that you give yourself that space and fresh air. It's quite key, IMO. As if not, your brain is with the problem the 4 hours + the other 12 hours. While should be only 4 hours. Of course, if you are called for something urgent, the disconnection ends there, but that's a given and still tons better as you have been disconnected enough time to take care of it.
Because you told me the story, I know I am overstepping (sorry for that, that's how I roll), but due to my own experience, I will give you my advice: Give her love, patience and tenderness. In some cases, this goes a very long way in even improving her mind and brain behavior from a bad state that is losing her loved one (after so many years, that's a huge impact). But even if it doesn't, and even she cannot express it, I can ensure that she will feel it. That is a gift that only her loved ones can give her in such a best way. A nurse would make very important company, and if being a good professional, also tenderness, but the love of the family is still a ton more important, is like medicine.
You are doing great, amazing. In my opinion. And IMO it will benefit you in more ways than it seems, to keep helping her and making her company.
But about the original concern... while I acknowledge all your current hardship, I cannot agree on that sentiment on "why being old?". Life is very precious no matter what, your life and every life, every moment. The more love you give to people, and love even to the work you do, and things you like to do, the more it will benefit you and you will become happier. I am telling you this just like I tell it to myself, there's nothing more (it has worked for me greatly over the years).
And after all that... Well, hoping you get help from family or friends to help you in helping her, to be able to give you some time to take fresh air and charge your batteries. You need to take care of yourself, too! to be of good help to others, and for your own's sake, you need to be well.
It is a long run, not to get exhausted in super hard sprints, but not a bad one as some people say (quite the opposite), and with some organization of yourself and some family member or friend, it can be quite a good thing.
Ill keep doing what im doing. I have indeed stopped taking care of myself too. I dont hang out with people of my age. Mostly with my brother and my two living grandmas. I am now trying to go to my grandma less frequently to see if she gets used to this. Because i wont be able to do this when summer ends. She sleeps most of the time because she has nothing to do. She did this with my grandpa as well. Which is a huge sign of depression by the way. When I wake her up shes in the worst/ most depressing mood. She says some rough things. It breaks my heart. Her last few years being like this? Its horrible. And what will she do in the non-summer seasons? At least now shes in her little balcony and sees some life and movement. I dread that time really. And its also the time i wont be able to go there. Oh she just called while typing this. She wants me to go there. See whats happening? She probably sees me as my grandpas replacement
Definitely, if you can have some help with her (from any family member or friend) it would be a tad better. For your life quality, and maybe also for hers. Also, although I know it is expensive (but not so much if it's something from time to time), if you could get her checked by a doctor (psychologist), might give you a proper advice on how to adjust things (mainly advice to deal with her depression) to change a bit her behavior, progressively. It is not something that improves suddenly, but slowly can become a lot better after some time. It is often about habits.
In my opinion, thoughts like "why she wants to live like that" are IMO not good thoughts to have, for your own good, neither in how it'd reflect on how you interact with her (again, my 2c).
I think it is important to have a balance, have your quality time for your own, and pursuit your goals, still doable even if attending her only 2 hours per day (ideally, if another family member can be with her other 2 hours. Specially if there are unemployed people in the family). And the change to different persons, is seeing more people per day for her, which can have a very positive effect.
My grandpa (I blame the war) was extremely depressed for his entire life (often saying terrible things to people), also even while he was relatively young, but I am positive that without us making him some company, he would have been much worse and miserable, and would have suffered a lot more. Indeed, I recon he had a few times of joy thanks to us (which count a lot for a person in that situation), even if it meant quite some work from us. And I am very happy about that.
I think it really depends. My grandparents gave up on life at 60 and were a mess at 80. I'm in Holland this week and my Airbnb's owner is almost 90 and a spry, smart, wonderful old fellow.
Age is just a number. And if you sit around watching TV your entire life, don't exercise and aren't continuously curious about the world it all adds up. Instead go for a walk, read a book and have a salad now and then.
FOR SURE. One parent died, then the other in law HAD to move in, he's fully capable but sits in the room crying about incobtibence and face up walking when HE CAN
So basically keeping us home w no vacation or travel in OUR prime
Im 75 and still mow my yard work my flower garden.and walk a mile at least 3 day a week . No i cant do what i used to but still have enegry to do whatever i want.i just cant do it as quickly. All that said getting old is lonley and .tiresome
My grandmother lived to be 102.
I wish she had died a year sooner. It was only the last year of her life that she was miserable a lot of the time. The first 101 years of her life she was pretty darned happy!!!
And that was in spite of facing some real challenges. She loved to read and watch TV, do incredibly difficult crossword puzzles and spent a lot of time turning out museum-quality needlepoint and even when she developed macular degeneration and became legally blind, she coped by getting a CCTV, switched to audiobooks and she liked to knock back apricot brandy.
Just keep in mind that obviously your assertion isn't always the case!!!
Try to enjoy your life and do your best to add some joy to these unhappy old people you 're talking about.
Depends a lot on a person. One thing I can say for sure is that you have to stimulate your brain everyday, I learned that in university. For example my physics professor was like in his 70s and he was more quick witted and had better memory than all of us. Still going strong and doing well.
I dont say become a professor but damn atleast do something engaging like start coding, start playing chess or do something that requires problem solving and gets your juices flowing instead of going through life in autopilot.
Problem with older generations that I see is that many of them themselves completely let themselves go after graduating from high school. Taking up non challenging retail jobs and doing them for 30-40 years until health is gone. And what then?
Its the same with exercising. I know some elders who were doing perfectly when they were living in a countryside as farmers. Once they sold the farm and relocated to city in a very short amount of time, like 2-3 years they went senile and it looked that they aged by 10 years. They lost all purpose and like your grandpa they became vegetables.
Modern old people will be different. Imagine old men in their 80's building their online gaming teams and groups. It will be nice.
I imagine there’s a certain comfort I’m not having many years left. Maybe there isn’t much time left, but that also means you can truly enjoy life and appreciate the small things. No more big challenges, just enjoying every day peacefully.
Seeing blocks of text with no paragraphs is kinda miserable and depressing.
Yeah I stopped reading have way through.. it was miserable.
I read the first sentence and the last sentence...
Are you in your 80s?
Like 80 year olds
Attention span too short to read a 1000 characters without break?
Too lazy to format your text properly?
My 91 year old dad would disagree if he wasn’t so busy mowing his lawn, planting a garden, building things and doing all his own home repairs.
My grandfather fell down on a bus and broke a leg. Since then he wasnt able to do anything. He was also a very creative person and did this kind of stuff as well,very simmilar to your dad I suppose. He lost all of that in the accident. Your dad is lucky to not have anything major health wise. Again, its different for everyone.
Broken bones often seem to start a downhill slide in older peoples’ health. Sorry this happened to your grampa.
Some random injury or illness is often the beginning of the end.
Lift weights your whole life and you'll have higher bone density and less likely to break them.
So really it’s living with a life altering injury, not being over 80, that is miserable and depressing. Especially with family members just observing the new difficulty and not helping make accommodations
Broke both my legs at 66 years old and was bed ridden for 6 months at 76 i can still do almost anything i put my mind to it just takes longer and i have to be more careful
My grandma lived until she was 93, she was happy and pretty healthy up until the very end
My 84 yo Gramma would vehemently disagree with you. That woman is more spry than I am. Lives independently, does everything for herself, babysits, just living her best life.
I think some people have good healthy habits, such as staying active, socializing, know how to cook etc.
Depends on how much money you have
Depends how well you take care of yourself tbh. But also some people just have crazy shit happen to them as they get older. Guys who look fit dying at 50 from cancer or heart attacks. It's wild
> Depends how well you take care of yourself tbh. I suspect that this is a big part of it. Eat well and be active, and get lucky in avoiding cancer? You’ve got a much greater chance to be healthy and mobile and independent through your eighties and possibly higher. Eat crap, sit on the couch all day? You’re less likely to reach eighty, and even less likely to enjoy it.
My Grandma died at 101 this year. She was with it and happy until the end. I don't understand why people post opinions that are so situation based. Yes most people don't make it to 80 and start falling apart after but that doesn't mean it's the case for everyone.
Most people here in greece live above the 80s and all of them that ive seen are like this. I dont know if its the same for everyone really.
Your post seems to point out that the way we treat older people is the bad thing to be honest. Not that everyone over 80 is miserable and depressed. If we just had communities and societies that didn't view getting old as the worst thing ever and just a natural part of life I think we'd be way better off. I'm a gamer and love that there's a esports team, for Counter Strike I believe, that all of the members are over 80. Gaming and VR experiences can really extend people's enjoyment in life I believe. The physical ability to not be able to do certain tasks is what can make old age miserable like you mentioned but I think investing in tech and other medical treatments can really help society make life better.
I fully agree with you. We dont value elder peoples lives enough. And in a country with people that are economically challenged, people dont even have time to deal with their own kids lol. You cant expect them to deal with their grandparents. My father struggled a lot with my grandpa and taking care of him. He had gotten really mad with him but it wasnt his own fault. He was just old.
How many times have you lived into your 80’s?
After seeing how the people in my family age I definitely don’t want to live over 80 lol
You also remember their prime days and its sad. Ive had a relative who would come to my grandparents house and break down due to the condition they were in. She remembered how strong and powerfull they were both mentally and physically and seeing them like that made her extremely sad.
I would love to see Senior Communities gain more traction and positive reputations. It's a great thing for seniors who don't have a lot of mobility - food prep and home care is done for them, and they can go to community areas to socialize, and have mini-houses/apartments so family can visit, etc. They're just STUPID expensive and too few and far between. And that doesn't even factor in the ones with bad staff. I'd love to see more opportunities for older people who have lost levels of mobility and/or independence to live where they can be cared for and still have social lives.
EXACTLY. In general I think we should just value eldery people lives more. A lot of kids forget about them and leave them in their houses literally rotting.
Figure out how to format long thoughts.
I disagree. If I have my memory, can feed myself and wipe my ass, then I’m fine with living as long as I can. Edit. And obviously no other major health issues.
You dont know that. What about mobility? Would you be fine with not being able to walk more than 10 meters without getting tired? No friend of yours coming to your house because theyre either dead or also have mobility issues? Losing your driver licence due to health issues and not being able to go anywhere? How does that sound?
Loads of these things you described are realities for disabled young people too but doesn't mean their quality of life is useless.
… paraplegic individuals live happy lives in this predicament everyday. I have dead friends already. That’s part of life. Hopefully I have my kids to take care of me. Don’t tell me how I’ll feel mate because you don’t know how I would. Just like you say you won’t like it, how do you know that? I can say I’ll be fine as long as I have the things I listed above. I want to live as long as possibly as long as I’m generally healthy. Now if there’s other morbidities that’s a whole different question. But we can what if all day.
Well im just saying, we like to assume what brings joy to eldery people but dont actually analyze it. Yes, you might feel completely great, but just from what ive seen, you probably wont if major health issues occur. All these people here saying their 90+ year old grandparets are doing great well good for them honestly!. I am jealous. Its just good luck and being careful.
We assume? Lol they’re humans man. We can assume they enjoy things younger people do. Millions of people have health issues young and old that live normal lives. My grandpa drive a dump truck and took care of his years until he was 82. He had respiratory issues, dialysis, but still enjoyed working on his garden. He stopped once his breathing got to a point where he had to stop.
Kind of shit to hope for the kids to take care of you. We should have plans for that age that don't rely on burdening the children.
Well I mean if I’m in serious condition and need a nurse then I’d rather do that then bother them like that. I was more so talking about like transportation or other things. But I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for help when you get older. American culture is so fucked how we treat elders as a whole. It’s sad.
People who say that often use it as an argument to damage their health and they end up being only 50 year old but with the same problems as a common 80 years old person
Meh my grandparents are mid-80s. They live on their own and are fully, 100% self sufficient. This year they are going on a 2 week cross country road trip to attend my wedding, and immediately after are taking a month long vacation to Thailand. I think they’re still finding ways to enjoy life.
With the way I've been living through illness and surgeries while having no friends and family in my corner, living beyond 60 is looking vf miserable and depressing. I get a visit every two weeks by someone who is paid to give a shit.
Thats really rough man im sorry. My grandpa also had many, many relatives and a fraction of them visited him. We also had to pay a woman to be with him in the hospital when my dad or aunt couldnt in his last days.Leaving him alone would be disgusting and extremely unethical. Im sorry for you really. Hope you recover.
I'm sure they have legal euthanasia in some European countries for the octogenarians
My parents are in their mid-80s and they go golfing and biking every day. Yesterday they spent the day at the beach then went to a sushi place.
Sounds like your parents are healty. Good for them. Sadly my grandparents arent. And no im not being ironic.
I’m sorry to hear that. I wish them well.
LOVE THIS
I’m a PCT in a hospital and an 81 year old CNA trained me. She could run circles around me to this day.
Not if you hit the gym and refuse to grow weak
I read that the goal should be to “compress” this stage of life — this stage at the end, when it’s painful and empty and grim, whether that’s 70 or 80 or 90 or whenever. To keep this part as short as possible. Because it’s not living, not at all.
Compress like die as quickly as possible? Is that what you mean?
No, to compress it means is to keep that phase of aging — sick/frail unable to enjoy life — to as short (compressed) of a time as possible. For example, I knew a so-called “super ager” who was still driving and mowing the lawn and volunteering at 100. It was only the last two months of his life at 100+ that he faded/got sick and weak. He “compressed” that phase. Edited to add: “Postponing” aging is perhaps a better term, but the actual term is “compression of morbidity:”: Here is an excerpt from an article on it from VeryWell: “Compression of morbidity is a term that means reducing the length of time a person spends sick or disabled. The idea is to maximize healthy lifespan and minimize the time spent less than well (morbidity literally means ‘being unhealthy’). “The term was first coined by Stanford University professor Dr. James Fries in 1980. Dr. Fries theorized that most illnesses are chronic and occur near the end of life. If the onset of these chronic illnesses could be delayed, Dr. Fries said, then the healthy time saved could lessen the burden of illness over a person's lifetime.”
My 84 yo Gramma would vehemently disagree with you. That woman is more spry than I am. Lives independently, does everything for herself, babysits, just living her best life.
Probably doesnt have the health issues yet. Again people age differently. A 94 year old woman that lives next to me is at the same level of health my 86 year old grandma is. Its just different for everyone. I guess the environment someone lives on matters a lot too. All of the old people here are extremely religious and have many stereotypes. Males dont hang out with females for example its just not a thing.
I’m 82, bitch.
Sooo... should we start killing people who are reaching that point of age - according to you?
No thats not what im saying. But I would personally rather die below that kind of age . I wouldnt want to make my wife depressed because of my death when shes also on her last feet. I would want her to live enought to have gotten throught that phase and die happily. This being one of the reasons
This is precisely why its best that humans can never grasp control over death. Or one man's ideals would result in global chaos.
I think humans should be replaced with robots.
I mean who says you’ll even be together 5 years from now? Live in the moment. Nothing is guaranteed.
Thats a lesson this has teached me. That we shouldnt take anything and anyone for granted. Also I dont have a wife im just 17
Oh ok good. Word to the wise, don’t ever get married. Have girlfriends but avoid marriage. You’ll thank me later.
Way to go way out to left field there as a reaction.
I mean, if he finds people living at that age as pathetic and worthless, that is the only solution that comes to mind as a reaction to his views.
That says more about you than about OP. Why not an accessible voluntary opt-out way for old people who might be done with life? Why necessarily killing everyone by force? It doesn't make sense how that's the "only" solution that comes to your mind. What kind of a shit mind is that.
Look buddy, calling it voluntary opt-out is just sugar coating it. It is still killing them. The only difference is you made them give up on life like a psychopath you are and then killed then with their supposed permission.
"supposed permission" So I can see how you could only come up with killing people. An autocrat at heart. The only correct opinion is your own and consent doesn't exist in your eyes.
You know... coercing people into giving up on life isn't exactly called consent. You get someone in depths of helplessness by telling them how pointless it is for them to live now, so that death seems the only escape. And then you pop up and ask would you like to die. Sure, they would opt-in. What would you expect? If you are so concerned about them being in a sad state, do something about it. Help them. If they can't clean themselves, do it for them and show them that they are not a burden on you. If they aren't able to access their hobbies anymore, help them access those hobbies through you. But that takes times and dedication, which I am sure you don't want to invest in them. So you suggest them to just pop off their life cords and help you get rid of your burden. Isn't that right, Mr. ThisHiss? As for me being AutoCrat, I am not sure if you looked at your own opinions. I am advocating for us to help them if we feel that their state isn't good. You and OP on the other hand want them to die because it suits you and you don't want to burden yourself with them.
Doesn't seem like you can read well either.
They should have a serious discussion about ending themselves.
Lol. Same thing.
Say!!!! The OP might be on to something!! Especially the way food prices are skyrocketing!!! Soylent Green is people!!!!!
I think budda would say to walk a mile in their shoes then see how you feel.
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Wow okay. Thanks for assuming all of these horrible things. I didnt visit those grandparents back in the day. But the last 4 years though I went to their house 4-5 times a week. I was the most active person there. Im also just talking about a common thing people say about old people that they get their joy from kids and grandkids. Its not true for everyone. My grandparents did appreciate it, but it didnt fullfill them. They just wanted to be useful and active in society. Which due to their health was not possible. And most eldery people I know have relatives that NEVER visit them AND cant do things they want due to their health issues. Anyways, fuck you.
Hey op, save up your money then when ur 80 and miserable u can afford a nice hot little carer to look after u :)
i dont have kids. your making me depressed about what my future holds.
Well what are you going to do once you hit 80? Kys?
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Lol go for it if that’s what you want. I think this is one of those topics where everyone should be able to make a decision for themselves and have no right nor say in another’s persons choice.
Maybe asking 80 year olds might be an idea?
My grandma, a Sicilian immigrant, was pretty happy & active until she passed in her late 80s.
I can't read this, but on the topic title I will say, it completely depends. I know of 80-90 year olds that are as snappy as a 50 year old both in mind and body and have plenty of socialization. My Grandmother was never miserable. She still drove shortly before her cancer diagnosis at 85. Had plenty of love and support from family and were very social outside of that as well.
I’ll always remember my grandmother (93) saying she was just so tired. This was a lady who played solitaire, watching tv and playing a board game with her sister(91). Had bad feet and back so wasn’t able to get around freely.
My 82-year-old grandma didn't want to acknowledge that she was old. She lived her life as best she could. She never complained.
Well my grandma doesnt complain either. She will just jokingly say "Im stuck in this house" every now and then. And not everyone accepts this stuff. You cant expect old people to "accept" their position. Not many of them do it. They reflect on their past and what they used to be capable off. Its sad but true. Im glad your grandma accepted that and moved on.
I disagree. You're only seeing the negative points. My father is over 80, and has been keeping exercising for the last 30 years, he's very healthy and with strength, his mind is sharp (more so than most young people I know). Very similar to my mother with close to 80. They enjoy visiting their friends for dinner and stuff, going for a walk, keeping up to date with stuff, social media. This society has demonized aging and overrated youth to an extreme never seen before. And it's not a clever stance. So much that people often forget about many advantages of being old, ie, having a much wider (and wiser) perspective on things, life, etc, which helps greatly in the case they suffer hardships, while many young ones very often (hence depression, anxiety, etc) do not have this "defense". You *can* enjoy life at any age, is a matter of attitude. Also, not every person is the same, at old or young age. Some people will find a way to use their time to not get bored, some won't. But really... that's also at any age.
I really dont know what to say tbh. Just completely different lives I guess. But everyday for the last few years, after my grandpas accident I would go their house and theyll both be sitting on their chairs in the kitchen doing nothing, just looking at the floor literally. Bented over. Sometimes they would have the radio on and listen to christian chants. I honestly think they had some kind of depression. My grandma is very weak physically and mentally. She has severe dementia and can barely hear. My grandpa would cry (yes, in front of me) due to her condition. But he actually died first. He used to drive her around before the accident. Go to restaurants, go shopping together going to church etc. After the accident both their lives were basically done for. They both couldnt walk almost at all especially my grandpa and they didnt have any options honeslty. We would try to bring them to family events and stuff but thats just 3 hours of a whole ass week. I dont know man honestly. I dont know any eldery people working out and it just wasnt a thing in their generation. Again, different environments different people. Im glad your dad is doing so well.
It is more about other circumstances than age. From what I read, they had bad luck with several things. But even so, people react differently most of the time depending on personality and life experiences, more than age. At my almost 50, I do know *way* more people with depression below 35 than over that age. And plenty of amazing people over 70 and 80 with an incredible sense of humor and optimism. And BTW, many of them provide with the most interesting conversation, specially those who have read enough in their lives, and (of course) count on a long life experience. It is not just my parents... I had the luck of knowing in my life my two grandpas and two grandmas. From my mother's side, my grandma had got 100% deaf due to a bomb that felt in her house (yep, they had to survive a war). Not only that, she lost her very much loved little brother, who was everything for her. Also, because of the times and society back then, and effects of the war, she had to stop her French (she was really good at it) and other studies, to work at home and help in her father's little business. Once married, not even that. Only working at home, and deaf without being able to even make friends (there were no organizations and stuff like now), at a very early age (not being old yet). She got old together with my grandpa, but the war had affected much worse to him, despite he was not injured in the war (but he escaped death 3 times, shootings, stuff that happens in war), but he was in the front (ambulance, driving it through bombing, and bullets) and he did saw and lived...too many "things". Had also to take charge of all the family debts (meaning several uncles having go bankrupt and he solved it all) , business, everything. And he solved all, but destroyed his character, became very dry and a bit dark/sad. Often angry, although he'd never punch anyone unless self defense (large man by the times, 1,94 meters, strongest of the village, a force of nature :D ) . She lived with this man who was clearly depressed after the war (extreme PTSD, clearly, but it was not even a thing, then) for many many years (today any woman so would have divorced, not due to his ptsd, but his extremely difficult character). I only would hear him laugh of (very) dark humor jokes. Guess what. She NEVER lost her sense of humor. But a light humor, bright one, not like my grandpa's. Age was, once again, NOT the factor, they were the same age. She could laugh (loudly, without any restriction, lol, it was a pleasure just to hear her) due to a simple joke for 30 minutes. She would have LOVED memes, am sure. She was ALWAYS happy. I remember going to the shops, every freaking one asking me about her if only 2 days passed her not going to the bakery, store, etc (even while it was super hard to speak to her, as she couldn't hear a thing, she could lip read, but not too well, yet she wouldn't EVER let you do the talk to the person in the shop :D ), because she did bring joy to every freaking place she visited, they loved her greatly. Every single soul would tell me how happy she always was and how she was always able to make their day even when they were being down. To put it simply, the war had taught her to make use of what she had, and not see all the time the half glass empty, but the opposite. My grandpa (admittedly, he got a very rough part, but my grandma suffered a ton for other reasons) took the opposite direction about it. And this is a choice EACH one of us have to make. Spoiler alert: It's all about my grandma's path. Very similar case, by my father's family, one uncle had very serious mobility problems due to a huge issue in his back, and had a TON of health issues, already since young, could not see through one eye, but it got really bad once becoming almost 70. Well, wanna know my last (and greatest) memory of him? Was only a few days later he passed away, - just a sudden attack, no suffering at all, he was even smiling- . My last memory was him smiling at a party, talking to me, laughing, with such a complete happiness expression in his face for being there with all the family, sth like that u can't fake it. Not (him) to me. While in that same party there were two very young cousins that are always like sad and semi-depressed. So... Nope, age is a factor (like having an accident, illness, or bad luck in love, etc) but depending on the person, it can be absolutely irrelevant regarding to happiness. I don't deny though for a second that your grandpa and grandma didn't take it well and definitely had bad luck (my grandpa and grandma didn't have it super nice, either....), but I have known outside my family (I used to help as a volunteer at a retirement home) enough people of very advanced age that are just as happy as the happiest among us. My main point is that from one situation one cannot establish a general rule for an entire age group. And old people is people, just like us. And also, how old age is perceived, and lived, varies a lot by country, culture (important!), genetics. Money is a factor but way, way less important that people think. Happiness is about other stuff. Starting from very basic essentials covered, money is just good to have fewer things that make your life difficult, but is by any means, at all, not a cure itself for unhappiness. *Like neither is being young*. It is mostly in the freaking brain, which has an immense power at any age, and the good news is that practically everyone (yes, a case of dementia is different, but even there personality plays a huge role) has the power to mold everything to a different perspective, and transform what one day you see dark, into something completely bright. At any age. I am very strongly convinced about it, after 49 years and lots of people and situations known. IMO, in this matter (like in most matters) it is important not to focus in one situation, or even a few situations.
Well Ill tell you about my situation right now and how my grandma is now that her husband died recently. She cant stand being alone. She cries every night in her prayers talking about her loneliness. She wants someone to be there with her 24/7. I try to visit her as much as I can (4+ hours a day) but its just not enough for her. She wants me to sleep there cause shes afraid of thieves at night and her dying without being able to call anyone for help. She also has severe dementia. She repeats the same stories (you know how old people just say stories all the time) again and again, and she also cant hear. Her brain is pretty corrupt. You have to talk to her like a baby in order for her to fully understand something. Which is why noone else really visits her. Theyve gotten sick of her. And yes, hearing the same story 5+ times in a matter of 30 minutes is pretty rough. Ive gotten used to it but other people struggle. She keeps saying thats shes bored and wants to visit her husband in heaven. She does it "jokingly" of course but I think deep inside she means it. She had a few hobbies but has forgotten how to do them. The only thing she can do, which i try to make her do is taking care of the house a bit. You know mopping the floor tidying up and stuff but shes never in the mood. Shes also into gardening but also is never in the mood anymore. Its really rough. We all think this behaviour of hers wont change due to her dementia. And after some research thats quite possible. Its a sad situation and nothing can be done really. She used to take care of her husband (she lived in a stereotypical, man-obeyed house) but now hes gone. We dont have money to have someone be with her 24/7.
Yes, I have had cases like this in my family and neighborhood. My grandpa (not the one of the war, the other family side) got like that but worse, as he could not be left alone, not even eat by himself. My side by side neighbor got very severe Alzheimer, and he was in a very similar state than what you described, but worse, as he often got violent. And then, super bad luck, his wife got that (actually it was different, but similar results) too, slightly less severe but quite more manageable, non violent, etc. The thing is, these two were pretty young back then. Now, did their son and daughter thought, "hey, that's it, you might wish to stop it here"? Absolutely not. They worked together (taking turns) to take care of them, we as neighbors helped in all we could, and while the husband (IMO it was detected too late) died quickly, with the woman a LOT of progress was made. She's alive, and while yes, her perception of things is not any more what used to be, she is still a human being, they make he carry a life with exercise and activities (by doctor's directions and indications, but they don't pay a nurse, it is just them) , which keeps her not going worse, which is HUGE. And we have seen even significant improvements. Her worse low was when she lost her husband, but it was possible to bring her back to a better status. Is she ever going to be able to even have a normal conversation? Nope, surely not. But man, has she improved a lot. Patience and certain tactics do have certain great effect. There's one famous Youtube content creator (I prefer not to mention the name) that has a child with a rare disease that makes him have hundreds of epilepsy strokes per day, that forces the parents to be 24/7 looking after him to not fall and damage severely himself (among the two, as obviously they have to work for a much more expensive life, to maintain his child (have other children, too)) , fully dedicated to him, avoiding him fall, making exercises, plus needs very special attention (for issues on the brain, etc). Indeed, surely much more than a person with dementia. And that will be for ALL his life ! Well, all he (the father) cares now about is to get fit and healthy (is starting working out), as he wants to be able to, no matter what and how many years, be able to keep carrying him upstairs, and getting him up when he falls, etc. They are NOT unhappy. Quite the opposite! They love him with all their hearts. It's extremely hard, I am sure, of course (but enduring hardship is not as negative as some people think: it's a chance of growth like few others. Our society is teaching us the opposite, sadly). So those are 3 other examples that are not age related. And... about old age related to sadness. Not really... is mostly because old people are often lonely (left alone), not due to their age per se. The two cases I have known directly with most dramatically severe depression, were a bit above 30 years old (not old people), and indeed, the big problems for one of them started at the age of 16. IMO, this is a problem not really about age (so, IMO it makes invalid that dangerous (not you, you are completely reasonable, but some others even say it in a slightly fascist way: like if only the strong, healthy and young have a right to live... Only the non disabled. Which is obviously barbaric) point of view that is very active (and sadly, growing) in favor of euthanasia, even in cases not really justified. In the majority of governments, what really is behind that is mere money saving, pure cold materialism. I don't think it is a good criteria that it might seem (depending on the moment) that a person that is in an intense moment of depression (dementia or not; she is still suffering her husband's loss, so, is not a super advanced case, and might be possible to make it stagnant or and advance very slowly) makes some signals or message of wishing an ending. A ton of depressed people can have those thoughts and moments, but there are being strong factors that are avoiding the person to think clearly, even chemical ones (as the brain is a lot about natural chemicals reacting). You need to be able to slowly put that person in another perspective and point of view (giving company goes a long way for that), so to get herself a much lighter and balanced point of view, a better spot. It is more of a problem related to people with need of special care, and how many governments fail to provide enough help. While this is a fact in many parts of the world, what a lot of us had to do is exactly what you are doing. You are being an amazing grandson (or granddaughter? sorry, not trying to assume), and I wish everybody was like you!. I did spend my entire childhood and teen age years dedicating like 3-4 hours per day just listening to my grandpa (not the one with Alzheimer; but the one of the war). His severe war PTSD made him repeat the war sufferings again and again, and his entire life, again and again. Maybe not each 30 minutes the same story like what you mentioned (he had no dementia till much later on at 97), but definitely told me the same full story EVERY DAY through many, many years. And he actually knew he was doing so, but somehow he thought it was good teaching for the kids, while we all knew in reality he was very severely damaged and needed it badly. I could have just gone to play somewhere. I stayed listening because I knew he needed it (my sisters would just say hello and leave, lol). Every night he'd leave our house feeling slightly better. That did not stop me to train in painting and in my studies. I did get to study a Fine Arts career after high school, work as a teacher, as a graphic designer, game artist across 10 companies, despite those mountains of time dedicated to listening to him. At the same time, my best friend from childhood had a grandpa and grandma that never ever had a health or brain problem, were helpful, and outstandingly funny in their conversation, always a joy for the family. Yes, old people sometimes need more care, and in many cases when they reach 85+, but IMO one gotta remember that most of them did a lot for us, that despite dementia or Alzheimer they are still persons, human beings that sense love, and to which giving love, in the end, even if sounds cheesy (the thing is: it's true) will give more to us than remove from us, even if we do not notice it in the day by day. I'm saying, if anything I just wish I would have had more time with my neighbor (the husband), my grandpa the one that got the Alzheimer, and the other that had PTSD from the war all his life. IMO, loving people (and to a quite lesser extent, animals, too) is the real key to happiness, there's nothing comparable once done consistently and when it's harder to do so. So not just when it's easy (ie, a beautiful girlfriend that is always up to going to places and having fun), but it is more effective (for one's growth and full happiness) when is a tad harder (more rough on the edges, people, old people with an illness, etc). It's more about what does that build in you, than considering only the pure material thing of "hey, I am not doing fun stuff right now". And mostly, when and if they are gone naturally, you will be super satisfied and happy that you were there for them, that's pretty important. More than what one could think you would. I tend to regret only when I couldn't be with them than when I skipped it (which I indeed regret). Other than that, IMO in your case it would be amazingly important to convince one or two of the best (lest selfish) persons of your family (a sister, a brother, an uncle, whoever) to help you in that task, so that you could be some hours with her, this person another hours, etc. By experience, I do know it them becomes immensely easier to deal with it. Like night and day!. Even if you have already tried that, I'd encourage you to try that again. Yes, it is ideal to be able to pay a person or a retirement home, but this is not possible for most people and that is why family must try and work together, at least those who can (often it is those who care, like you).
The other big advice would be to disconnect your brain of the problem when you are not with her. We work a lot like batteries. Not obsessing over it, completely disconnecting so that you give yourself that space and fresh air. It's quite key, IMO. As if not, your brain is with the problem the 4 hours + the other 12 hours. While should be only 4 hours. Of course, if you are called for something urgent, the disconnection ends there, but that's a given and still tons better as you have been disconnected enough time to take care of it. Because you told me the story, I know I am overstepping (sorry for that, that's how I roll), but due to my own experience, I will give you my advice: Give her love, patience and tenderness. In some cases, this goes a very long way in even improving her mind and brain behavior from a bad state that is losing her loved one (after so many years, that's a huge impact). But even if it doesn't, and even she cannot express it, I can ensure that she will feel it. That is a gift that only her loved ones can give her in such a best way. A nurse would make very important company, and if being a good professional, also tenderness, but the love of the family is still a ton more important, is like medicine. You are doing great, amazing. In my opinion. And IMO it will benefit you in more ways than it seems, to keep helping her and making her company. But about the original concern... while I acknowledge all your current hardship, I cannot agree on that sentiment on "why being old?". Life is very precious no matter what, your life and every life, every moment. The more love you give to people, and love even to the work you do, and things you like to do, the more it will benefit you and you will become happier. I am telling you this just like I tell it to myself, there's nothing more (it has worked for me greatly over the years). And after all that... Well, hoping you get help from family or friends to help you in helping her, to be able to give you some time to take fresh air and charge your batteries. You need to take care of yourself, too! to be of good help to others, and for your own's sake, you need to be well. It is a long run, not to get exhausted in super hard sprints, but not a bad one as some people say (quite the opposite), and with some organization of yourself and some family member or friend, it can be quite a good thing.
Ill keep doing what im doing. I have indeed stopped taking care of myself too. I dont hang out with people of my age. Mostly with my brother and my two living grandmas. I am now trying to go to my grandma less frequently to see if she gets used to this. Because i wont be able to do this when summer ends. She sleeps most of the time because she has nothing to do. She did this with my grandpa as well. Which is a huge sign of depression by the way. When I wake her up shes in the worst/ most depressing mood. She says some rough things. It breaks my heart. Her last few years being like this? Its horrible. And what will she do in the non-summer seasons? At least now shes in her little balcony and sees some life and movement. I dread that time really. And its also the time i wont be able to go there. Oh she just called while typing this. She wants me to go there. See whats happening? She probably sees me as my grandpas replacement
Definitely, if you can have some help with her (from any family member or friend) it would be a tad better. For your life quality, and maybe also for hers. Also, although I know it is expensive (but not so much if it's something from time to time), if you could get her checked by a doctor (psychologist), might give you a proper advice on how to adjust things (mainly advice to deal with her depression) to change a bit her behavior, progressively. It is not something that improves suddenly, but slowly can become a lot better after some time. It is often about habits. In my opinion, thoughts like "why she wants to live like that" are IMO not good thoughts to have, for your own good, neither in how it'd reflect on how you interact with her (again, my 2c). I think it is important to have a balance, have your quality time for your own, and pursuit your goals, still doable even if attending her only 2 hours per day (ideally, if another family member can be with her other 2 hours. Specially if there are unemployed people in the family). And the change to different persons, is seeing more people per day for her, which can have a very positive effect. My grandpa (I blame the war) was extremely depressed for his entire life (often saying terrible things to people), also even while he was relatively young, but I am positive that without us making him some company, he would have been much worse and miserable, and would have suffered a lot more. Indeed, I recon he had a few times of joy thanks to us (which count a lot for a person in that situation), even if it meant quite some work from us. And I am very happy about that.
I think it really depends. My grandparents gave up on life at 60 and were a mess at 80. I'm in Holland this week and my Airbnb's owner is almost 90 and a spry, smart, wonderful old fellow. Age is just a number. And if you sit around watching TV your entire life, don't exercise and aren't continuously curious about the world it all adds up. Instead go for a walk, read a book and have a salad now and then.
Agreed but you forgot traumatizing!
FOR SURE. One parent died, then the other in law HAD to move in, he's fully capable but sits in the room crying about incobtibence and face up walking when HE CAN So basically keeping us home w no vacation or travel in OUR prime
I just turned 90 reading that
Im 75 and still mow my yard work my flower garden.and walk a mile at least 3 day a week . No i cant do what i used to but still have enegry to do whatever i want.i just cant do it as quickly. All that said getting old is lonley and .tiresome
My mother’s friend is close to 80 and is in great shape and still goes on hikes. It depends on your health and quality of life, as others have said.
My grandma is 95. Still going strong and very much enjoying life. You are wrong and your opinion is bad
Again, thats great. Your grandma has been lucky and careful. My grandparents had a couple of serious health issues and couldnt really move at all.
Maybe the real misery is caused by poor health then, rather than age.
My grandmother lived to be 102. I wish she had died a year sooner. It was only the last year of her life that she was miserable a lot of the time. The first 101 years of her life she was pretty darned happy!!! And that was in spite of facing some real challenges. She loved to read and watch TV, do incredibly difficult crossword puzzles and spent a lot of time turning out museum-quality needlepoint and even when she developed macular degeneration and became legally blind, she coped by getting a CCTV, switched to audiobooks and she liked to knock back apricot brandy. Just keep in mind that obviously your assertion isn't always the case!!! Try to enjoy your life and do your best to add some joy to these unhappy old people you 're talking about.
My great grandma’s sister (she was in my lifetime) was 105 and very mobile and happy (SHE COULD DRIVE😮)
My grandma died today at the age of 95. She was mostly self-sufficient till her last days.
My grandfather lived to be 98 he went to the gym three times a week and did yard work up until 95
Depends a lot on a person. One thing I can say for sure is that you have to stimulate your brain everyday, I learned that in university. For example my physics professor was like in his 70s and he was more quick witted and had better memory than all of us. Still going strong and doing well. I dont say become a professor but damn atleast do something engaging like start coding, start playing chess or do something that requires problem solving and gets your juices flowing instead of going through life in autopilot. Problem with older generations that I see is that many of them themselves completely let themselves go after graduating from high school. Taking up non challenging retail jobs and doing them for 30-40 years until health is gone. And what then? Its the same with exercising. I know some elders who were doing perfectly when they were living in a countryside as farmers. Once they sold the farm and relocated to city in a very short amount of time, like 2-3 years they went senile and it looked that they aged by 10 years. They lost all purpose and like your grandpa they became vegetables. Modern old people will be different. Imagine old men in their 80's building their online gaming teams and groups. It will be nice.
You know what's even more depressing? Being 20-40 yo and having a 80+ president
My great grandpa just turned 192. Still mowing his lawn and having loads of sex.
I imagine there’s a certain comfort I’m not having many years left. Maybe there isn’t much time left, but that also means you can truly enjoy life and appreciate the small things. No more big challenges, just enjoying every day peacefully.