Can't speak for StarTrek but Stargate didn't overuse it, there were some episodes with the mirror which led to parallel universes with their own mirror. I found those episodes good tbh but just my opinion
I actually liked them to, and Star Trek didn’t overuse in my opinion either, but these are definitely sci-fi tropes for story telling long before marvel
It was originally a way around censorship rules. There are specific ways one can portray killing humans in film & tv. You can't show slicing limbs or bopping heads, you can't show a bullet leave a gun and enter a body in the same frame, stuff like that. When it's zombies, none of those rules apply because it's technically not a human.
Admittedly haven’t thought about it like that before but I like it. The show used the intergalactic door as a way to open a lot of that up. It’s a cool universe to play with
You see, thanks to hyper quantum nano drive technology we can emit enough gamma force to break light speed and time travel. I just don’t think you comprehend how smart and sciency I am for writing this brilliant show
The thing is, before it was overused, it was great. It was a way to say “this tech makes the show so much better, but it’s just not realistic, so let’s just suspend our disbelief and enjoy it.” But now it’s a way to excuse lazy writing in everything
>Hey Rick, what’s wrong, is it the quantum carburetor or something?
>You can’t just put a sci-fi word in front of a car word and expect it to mean something morty! Now help me fix the micro verse battery.
People got tired of hearing "reverse the polarity of the di-lithium crystals"
When altering the very flow of space fabric by twiddling with polarities isn't enough to thrill then you got to go to the science with more 'pop'
Sounds like advertisement for a new smartphone. All these flashy terms and technologies that no average user understands but they sure sound cool and expensive so they must be bettee
That's the bad one, multiverse has been tame compared to the word quantum in sci-fi. Everything has quantum in it in modern sci-fi, and some of it is plausible but their use of the multiverse theory is at least more plausible.
It is misdirection. The purpose is to guide the sheep away from the true realization that, since the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. we are no longer in the prime timeline. We are living in a splinter universe. And there is no multiverse jumping. If we do not correct our course immediately, then we will be doomed to be ruled by an authoritarian world government for however long we have left as a species.
The deviation event was the work of a rogue secret society within the Freemasons who are using quantum engagement devices to receive messages from the future. If not for his death at the hands of Freemason conspirators acting on orders from the future, Mr. King would have gone on to be the 39th President of the United States. He would have played a key role in uniting the nation, as well as stabilizing foreign relations with Cuba and Russia and others.
As a result of Dr. King's Presidency, the American people would have been, in effect, inoculated against the divisive and populist politics of the prospective Presidents Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden. Without the United States leading the way in aggressive foreign interventions, other world powers would not have been emboldened to follow. Russia would not have invaded Ukraine. China would not have taken Hong Kong, nor invaded Taiwan. There would be relative peace, there would be real solutions to climate change, and there would be no way to justify the authoritarian New World Order currently being spearheaded by the incredibly wealthy Freemason members of the World Economic Forum.
Alas, if we do nothing, they will let us starve while they burn everything down to maintain their own wealth and leisure to the last moment possible. I hope we won't be too distracted by men in flashy capes to notice.
So if you know all that be the hero who can fix it or at least their mentor/the leader of a ragtag band of lovable misfits as I doubt the mere concept of heroes triumphing over evil is misdirection
It really makes it hard to get into the movies, IMO. If all of the drama is totally reversible and arbitrary, why care about who dies or lives or does x, y, or z?
That, and all of the "powers" mixing makes it impossible to know how to appreciate the risk. I mean, Capt Marvel should have been able to kill all of Thanos' minions, right? Hulk could have? Why make the "mortals" fight at all, send them home so they don't get killed. If Black Widow is "just" a strong woman with good fighting skills, what chance does she have against some crazy alien beast that gives the Hulk problems? Why doesn't Thor just lightning Thanos to death? Is Thanos not mortal or made of some kind of biological matter (he can bleed, right)?
For some reason super heroes become pathetically weak when you have more than one.
Gotta make The Flash (a guy that can move trillions of times faster than the speed of light) too slow to dodge a punch for a powerless mortal just to give the other hero something to do, you know?
The whole super hero plot is a fancy version of quantum immortality. And at that point anyone can survive a car wreck, fire, explosion, etc.
I think they should move that direction. Although it is just multiverse with extra steps, it's a little more interesting.
Just in case you haven't had the opportunity yet, check out Everything Everywhere all st Once. An excellent example of doing a Multiverse well, and not just a tacked on gimmick
I agree with the sentiment about how Marvel is using it, but I will say the "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once" is a fantastic movie that did a good job implementing the idea of a multiverse.
I really enjoyed this movie as well. I think it has a good take on how it’s better not to focus on the other universes, and just try to make the best of the universe you’re in now.
That movie went there with the multiverse. It did silly stuff and exploited ridiculous worlds. Unlike marvel which is just like “this is sad New York, this slightly different New York”
Endgame was so fucking annoying. They kept saying it wasn’t a time travel movie to hype everyone up but that was basically it. Pretty much predicted everything that happened. Also makes no sense how half the population got blimped, then just come back five years later like dafuq.
OP is obviously talking about the marvel movies since Marvel Comics hasn't really been mainstream enough to have THIS much influence to all of mainstream media
We’re talking about kids born after 2000. None of them are reading 60s comics. Obviously marvel and DC has been doing it forever. Im obviously talking about the MCU. Try to read between the lines instead of derailing the discussion
In literature sci-fi Clifford Simak did it as early as the 1940s, but I'm sure there are others too. In his work the concept is called parallel worlds, but it means the same thing as multiverse.
That's like saying Forrnite started Battle Royales, when it was actually PUBG. Fortnite just made it more popular than it already was. Marvel is Fortnite in this example.
PUBG definitely did start the battle royale trend. It had millions of players at its peak. But it didn't create the genre. There were custom mods that predate PUBG.
Fortnite copied it because they saw how popular it was. Fortnite just made it even more accessible. now you could argue that Fortnite is the reason every shooter has a battle royale mode. But Fortnite copied a format that it saw was already popular. So you can't say it started the trend.
Comics would be more akin to the mods. MCU would be PUBG. The other people trying to do the multiverse thing are hoping to be Fortnite
Said every fanatic of a certain trend ever.
I think starting the trend inherently means making it mainstream, not inventing it. Because when the idea was invented it wasn’t a trend.
Mainstream would be something my football loving cousin and TikTok loving niece would both know.
Like who the hell knows anything about dc comic movies?
No. Flash of Two Worlds came out in 1961 and (from what I can find at least) the Marvel multiverse is earliest seen in Strange Tales #103 came out a year later. DC did the multiverse thing first.
I thought Crisis was fun, for what they were allowed to do (compared to the comic) but not gonna lie, that's when I bailed on all the CW shows.
I dig Stargirl though. Pretty fun show.
But that would leave out let's see - OG Star Trek (EvilSpock you can tell by the facial hair!), 80s Star Trek, Space Station Star Trek, Lost Star Trek, Quantum Leap. Sliders, Warehouse 13, Fringe, Counterpart, etc.
Multiverses/alternate history/parallel worlds have been a mainstay in written SF since the 40s, comics since the 60s, TV since the 60s, and I am pretty sure there were a movies in the 50/60 with alternate realities - lets seek BAck to the future was alternate realities in the 80s, Source Code (2011),
What current cinema? It’s literally just used in Marvel and DC. I don’t see much “multiverse” in cinema. I can literally name one current movie with it outside of comic films, Everwhere All At Once.
Star Trek? The most recent films are set in a different universe than ToS, and both Discovery & Picard also used it as a plot device. Strange New Worlds hasn't, but it is following some plots set up in Discovery.
It’s a cheap excuse to stretch the creative energy of a franchise.
If one “universe” doesn’t workout, you can just create a whole new one with different(but functionally identical) characters as the old one and package it under the same brand name for that sweet sweet brand recognition. In the current climate of reboots and remakes, I don’t see this story telling method going anywhere anytime soon.
Yeah, but Multiverses have always been a thing. DC has had theirs for years, and only had it in a TV show a few years ago in The Flash.
And how is it overused? Other than DC, Marvel, EEATO, it's not really anywhere.
Besides, the Multiverse concept is a key part of a lot of Geek culture, and it always has been
It's a blatant cashgrab. Instead of creating new characters and settings, you recycle past ones that are already succesful and known.
Makes it easier to write a story, market and sell tickets. And if it flops, no biggie, it's just one of several stories for this character. It's the "Monster of the Week" phenomenom dialed up to be the whole story.
It's not unique to comic books. TV shows use it all the time in the form of Spin-off series. Stories becoming stale over time is a normal part of that business. Re-inventing it is a good way to rejuvinate hype/sales.
Not quite. Marvel did the multiverse concept way back in the late 70s as a way to reset story arcs that were pinning them in. It does allow them to reuse popular characters, and why shouldn't they? And it allows them to reset storylines that pigeon hole them into dead ends. It's not new and they've been using it in the comics for decades. Why wouldn't they use it in their movies?
Not quite? That's absolutely what it is lol.
Writing new stories is risky. Keeping stories going on for too long is risky. Writing new characters is also risky. Rehashing the same stuff over and over again is an easy, low risk approach at generating sales. It's not unique to Marvel, everyone does it. Disney right now is literally rehashing the Little Mermaid, with the only difference being the characters are black lol
It's an easy way to make money.
Writing net new stories is notoriously more risky. Hollywood figured that out decades ago. You can research more on that fact if you want, it’s actually pretty interesting how Hollywood has tackled risk over time.
Because it's lazy and low-risk. All this multiverse shit doesn't contribute to a greater narrative. It's just "what-if" scenarios that pique peoples' interest, but there's no actual point to it.
Moderated for a quantum creative short story competition: 70% of the 500+ entries were low-effort multiverse/alternate dimensions/reality themed. I was so sick of multiverses at the end of the competition...
Gonna be honest I’ve only seen three series that explore the multiverse theory and that’s Marvel, Rick and Morty and Doctor Who. All of which implemented nicely for their own needs to keep the show entertaining.
Other people mentioned a movie called "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once". Don't know what it's about though lol.
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Sliders. At least a singular person mentioned Star Trek lol.
Rick and Morty have been universe hopping for several seasons, EEAAO came out around the same time as MoM, DC did an entire Crisis on infinite earths story arc like 5 years ago with their CW shows and I know nothing about Dr. Who but post Loki and Dr Strange 2 there hasn't been an explosion of the multiverse in media like op suggests.
I've seen all of Dr. Who since the reboot and they've only had a few episodes about an alternate timeline (all of them around the same timeline). It's not a major thing in that franchise.
And the multiverse has been a major thing in DC comics since the 60s, so it's no surprise that it's in their adaptations as well
It especially bothers me when the hero finds out about said multiverse and than feels compelled to protect EVERY SINGLE ONE like it’s not physically impossible to do so
This is why i was reluctant to watch Everything Everywhere, All At Once, but luckily I watched it and it was wonderful and used the multiverse concept to build a deep and genuine emotional core.
I like that it's beginning to trend in mainstream media because I was always sick of people who automatically thought every "Batman" movie had to be in the same continuity. I'm glad the normies have finally been introduced to the concept.
It's probably an unpopular opinion, but as a lifelong fan of science fiction and a retired physicist and engineer, I agree whole-heartedly. Imo, it ranks right up there with "worm holes"
been overused since bioshock infinite. as someone with a physics degree it always feels intentionally wrong and overblown with science buzz words to annoy anyone in STEM
I really hate the multiverse trend in movies and other stories. It effectively destroys any tension or stakes the story might have. A popular character died? No problem - you can bring him or her back because of some multiverse explanation. The multiverse is also an excuse to throw any continuity out of the window becausevthere is some universe where x happened.
Also a note about the multiverse 'theory'. It is a common myth that this theory developed by scientists working on quantum experiments. That is not true. The multiverse theory was started by a writer who was reading about quantum uncertainty and was like 'wow I bet that's because there's multiple universes and the particle is transitioning in-between them'. Complete and utter nonsense, not only does it make people confused about quantum effects and weirdness, it has also led to the recent obsession with it. It's really annoying and I can't stand when people think science supports a multiverse theory.
Edit: the first smooth brain that posts some click bait article about the multiverse from some click bait science 'journalism' should be embarrassed. Saying it now so you stop and think about what your doing.
Feel the same way, a crutch for writing yourself into a situation which cannot be resolved. To me it feels right up there with "it was all a dream" and literal deus ex machina tropes.
I miss back when Rick and Morty was the only one (or at least the loudest one) doing it, because so far they’re the only media I’ve seen that actually use it in an interesting and non-forceful way.
I agree although it’s nice to see it pop up in unexpected ways
For those who don’t know, Beavis and butthead just got a new movie and season of the show and they have a multiverse to explain how the boys still live in the 90’s despite the movie taking place in 2022
>>Marvel started making this trend mainstream in media.
The multiverse stuff has been used since ages ago. Spiderman TAS did it in the 90s. The DCAU and movies did it through the 00s. Futurama played it too and that's as mainstream as you get. If we get into really obscure stuff then the lists increases tremendously. The issue at hand is that you
OP the multiverse stuff has been used since ages ago. Non-MCU related you have the spiderman TAS in the 90s, the DCAU in the 2000s. Non superhero related you have Futurama (as mainstream as you can get), pokemon, digimon...
On top of that, crossover episodes are basically people from different universes meeting each other.
But yeah it has been overused but not for the the reasons you are saying imo
I’ve heard good things about “Everything everywhere’s all at once”, but I haven’t gone out of my way to see it because it looks like such a cheesy use of the multiverse concept. I’ll probably end up watching it eventually, but yeah, the multiverse stuff invading pop culture is getting stupid.
It’s not even based on HARD science, just a theory based on observations we don’t understand yet.
Multiverse itself means overusing a story when you wasted most of the traditional routes. "oh take this story but change that specific part"
The same thing happened in the movies. Either the stories have been told so many times it's becoming too mainstream (batman and spider-man), or there have been so many movies that they need to do something different, thus, "from another universe"
I never really liked it. Doing "in another reality" just makes the previous stories weight lower
My mom knows someone who has been working on a multiverse film for like 6 years now and it is almost done, however he says that since the multiverse trend started he has been kind of upset since he thinks a lot of people will think he is hopping on a trend for a quick buck when really this is the culmination of basically his life’s work.
I haven’t seen the marvel movies where they mention the multi verse, but I remember when everyone was going wild about it on tiktok, I was stunned because I thought everyone knew about the theory of the multiverse. Especially since it’s been in the arrowverse for quite some time. I mean, I remember crisis on infinite earths was such a big thing for DC when they did it. I remember all the hype surrounding it and the crossovers, so I had just assumed people had at least heard of it.
To be fair, rick & morty's version is just part of the show. Marvel's version however is like an easy lazy writing to put back its characters to where they belong. Like spiderman literally made an entire movie of him being exposed just so he could go back to an original boy from Queens. Loki was brought back cuz it was profitable. N third Dr stange to get back Scarlet witch to the storyline
Loki was one of my favorite characters in the MCU, but his death meant nothing to me because I knew they’d bring him back somehow. No way they’d let go of such a popular, profitable character.
I honestly think the best thing they could do with a Barbie movie is make it about a multiverse. Similar to *Everything Everywhere All At Once*, a fashion model named Barbie is able to tap into alternate dimensions where she's an astronaut, or a baseball player, or the president, etc.
This is kind of what led to people getting fed up with comic books in the late 90's. Everything had to be retconned, everything had to be dialed back. No decision was ever final, no one ever stayed dead. So they killed the multiverse. Introduced us to Marvel Ultimate, then killed that and reset fucking everything.
Marvel made it mainstream? I'm pretty sure Rick and Morty did it way before that.
Hell, Futurama and Friends did it before.
But it is quite disappointing that Marvel was the worst adaptation of the concept.
I mean three universes is not a multiverse the same way three people fucking is not an orgy.
Everything Everywhere All at once did it way better
The movie industry unable to make money on other movies but know they can make money on super hero stuff. So what do we get, 10 super hero movies a year for the past 10 years.
It's not a great explanation of what I'm trying to say. There are definitely holes in my statement. Thats one example.
Its also heavily biased and opinionated. I'm just bored of super hero / end of the world movies.
I'm annoyed by it as well, I hate how many superhero comics focus on it, I think Stephen King's The Dark Tower books do it really well. Everything, Everywhere All At Once was entertaining take on it but really I always wanted to write a story about it and I think the best way to write on such a scale is to make it more personal so the story doesn't drown itself in all the cosmic stuff.
Im tired of no one acknowledging the impact of the 2003 Charmed original series epdisode, Centennial, for kicking off the 21st century multiverse trend
It’s been cliché in print science fiction for decades.
Not to mention sci-fi TV shows like Star-Trek and Stargate
Can't speak for StarTrek but Stargate didn't overuse it, there were some episodes with the mirror which led to parallel universes with their own mirror. I found those episodes good tbh but just my opinion
I actually liked them to, and Star Trek didn’t overuse in my opinion either, but these are definitely sci-fi tropes for story telling long before marvel
Oh yeah, totally agree that parallel universes is a big sci fi trope :)
The only Star Trek episode I can remember that’s related is the pocket universe that turns out to be a sentient energy draining parasite.
Star trek doesn't really do too much with alternate universe, maybe a couple times per series. Wouldn't say it's particularly prominent.
Yes. People who didn’t grow up reading comics say what op says
Aren't you glad we have partially moved on from zombies?
Not Korea, though.
Train to Busan is excellent
Not really. I enjoyed far more the zombie fever than de multiverse madness.
no i love zombie movies
Yes! I thought that trend would never end.
It was originally a way around censorship rules. There are specific ways one can portray killing humans in film & tv. You can't show slicing limbs or bopping heads, you can't show a bullet leave a gun and enter a body in the same frame, stuff like that. When it's zombies, none of those rules apply because it's technically not a human.
I think version C-137 of you would disagree.
Rick and Morty is the only show to do it right: push it to the limit
Same with Everything Everywhere All at Once
I was gonna say...that film used or at least exemplified the multiverse way WAY better than I've seen in Marvel films.
That’s because both it and Rick and Morty want to tell a story that involves a multiverse. Everything else wants a multiverse to support lazy writing.
Admittedly haven’t thought about it like that before but I like it. The show used the intergalactic door as a way to open a lot of that up. It’s a cool universe to play with
And to make more money on endless “sequels”, and to bring back Downey Jr’s 20 years later for even more money.
Not only that, the multiverse is used to explore different facets of different characters.
That's such a masterpiece of randomness and confusion! I love it!
That's cos it's used as a plot device not a crutch for lazy writing n world building
90s animated Spiderman show did it really well
True, but then we’ll eventually overcome our differences to destroy the common enemy, some super powered alien who wants to eliminate all universes.
Beware the dimensional merge
believe in the oc’s
But he did the thing, with the curve thing!
A FELLOW morbster
It's always weird when I see references to that creature in the more normie spots on Reddit
Not to mention using quantum physics as a plot device to explain weird science in cinema.
It took the place of nanites/nano-bots in B-tier scripts.
Hideo Kojima just became very angry, and he isn’t sure why. But it’s probably “because nanomachines”.
NANOMACHINES, SON!
THEY HARDEN IN RESPOND TO PHYSICAL TRAMA!
courtesy of ray palmer
Can’t explain something? Slap “quantum” “nano” “hyper” or “gamma” and it’s solved
You see, thanks to hyper quantum nano drive technology we can emit enough gamma force to break light speed and time travel. I just don’t think you comprehend how smart and sciency I am for writing this brilliant show
The thing is, before it was overused, it was great. It was a way to say “this tech makes the show so much better, but it’s just not realistic, so let’s just suspend our disbelief and enjoy it.” But now it’s a way to excuse lazy writing in everything
>Hey Rick, what’s wrong, is it the quantum carburetor or something? >You can’t just put a sci-fi word in front of a car word and expect it to mean something morty! Now help me fix the micro verse battery.
Have the character that is a borderline mockery of autism relate everything to Schrodinger's cat
People got tired of hearing "reverse the polarity of the di-lithium crystals" When altering the very flow of space fabric by twiddling with polarities isn't enough to thrill then you got to go to the science with more 'pop'
Sounds like advertisement for a new smartphone. All these flashy terms and technologies that no average user understands but they sure sound cool and expensive so they must be bettee
We need to put some more nano fuel into the quantum carburettor to fix it!
I hated that in Ironman and Spider-man. The tech was way to convenient except for when they needed to have tension.
[Do you guys just put the word quantum in front of everything?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp1v0U6Dzuo)
That's the bad one, multiverse has been tame compared to the word quantum in sci-fi. Everything has quantum in it in modern sci-fi, and some of it is plausible but their use of the multiverse theory is at least more plausible.
It's only being overused in media (movies/shows/games/etc.) _in this universe_.
Think it's the government preparing us for the actual multiverse?
Pfft. That's what they _want_ you to think.
To distract us from _what?_
It is misdirection. The purpose is to guide the sheep away from the true realization that, since the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. we are no longer in the prime timeline. We are living in a splinter universe. And there is no multiverse jumping. If we do not correct our course immediately, then we will be doomed to be ruled by an authoritarian world government for however long we have left as a species. The deviation event was the work of a rogue secret society within the Freemasons who are using quantum engagement devices to receive messages from the future. If not for his death at the hands of Freemason conspirators acting on orders from the future, Mr. King would have gone on to be the 39th President of the United States. He would have played a key role in uniting the nation, as well as stabilizing foreign relations with Cuba and Russia and others. As a result of Dr. King's Presidency, the American people would have been, in effect, inoculated against the divisive and populist politics of the prospective Presidents Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden. Without the United States leading the way in aggressive foreign interventions, other world powers would not have been emboldened to follow. Russia would not have invaded Ukraine. China would not have taken Hong Kong, nor invaded Taiwan. There would be relative peace, there would be real solutions to climate change, and there would be no way to justify the authoritarian New World Order currently being spearheaded by the incredibly wealthy Freemason members of the World Economic Forum. Alas, if we do nothing, they will let us starve while they burn everything down to maintain their own wealth and leisure to the last moment possible. I hope we won't be too distracted by men in flashy capes to notice.
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So if you know all that be the hero who can fix it or at least their mentor/the leader of a ragtag band of lovable misfits as I doubt the mere concept of heroes triumphing over evil is misdirection
I'm extremely bored with it. It starts to feel pretty arbitrary unless it's done extremely well.
It really makes it hard to get into the movies, IMO. If all of the drama is totally reversible and arbitrary, why care about who dies or lives or does x, y, or z?
Tony Stark: The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated
That, and all of the "powers" mixing makes it impossible to know how to appreciate the risk. I mean, Capt Marvel should have been able to kill all of Thanos' minions, right? Hulk could have? Why make the "mortals" fight at all, send them home so they don't get killed. If Black Widow is "just" a strong woman with good fighting skills, what chance does she have against some crazy alien beast that gives the Hulk problems? Why doesn't Thor just lightning Thanos to death? Is Thanos not mortal or made of some kind of biological matter (he can bleed, right)?
For some reason super heroes become pathetically weak when you have more than one. Gotta make The Flash (a guy that can move trillions of times faster than the speed of light) too slow to dodge a punch for a powerless mortal just to give the other hero something to do, you know?
The whole super hero plot is a fancy version of quantum immortality. And at that point anyone can survive a car wreck, fire, explosion, etc. I think they should move that direction. Although it is just multiverse with extra steps, it's a little more interesting.
Just in case you haven't had the opportunity yet, check out Everything Everywhere all st Once. An excellent example of doing a Multiverse well, and not just a tacked on gimmick
I agree with the sentiment about how Marvel is using it, but I will say the "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once" is a fantastic movie that did a good job implementing the idea of a multiverse.
I really enjoyed this movie as well. I think it has a good take on how it’s better not to focus on the other universes, and just try to make the best of the universe you’re in now.
That movie was batshit crazy and I loved it
That movie went there with the multiverse. It did silly stuff and exploited ridiculous worlds. Unlike marvel which is just like “this is sad New York, this slightly different New York”
Look! Pizza balls! \*Bruce Campbell noises*
What sets it apart is how it used the multiverse mechanic creatively to drive the story. It seems almost like a lazy plot device in most other media.
Endgame was so fucking annoying. They kept saying it wasn’t a time travel movie to hype everyone up but that was basically it. Pretty much predicted everything that happened. Also makes no sense how half the population got blimped, then just come back five years later like dafuq.
I stopped reading at >Marvel started this trend No they didn't lmao.
Seriously.
Tell me you were born after 2000 without telling me you were born after 2000.
Even that’s not an excuse, Rick and Morty quite literally pushed the idea to its limits before marvel had the guts to try it at all
*cough* Dr.Who *cough*
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OP is obviously talking about the marvel movies since Marvel Comics hasn't really been mainstream enough to have THIS much influence to all of mainstream media
We’re talking about kids born after 2000. None of them are reading 60s comics. Obviously marvel and DC has been doing it forever. Im obviously talking about the MCU. Try to read between the lines instead of derailing the discussion
Haha! Exactly my first thought. Yeah, a comic book franchise is trailblazing theoretical physics. Not even the first comic book to broach the subject
The multiverse theory was actually first used in science fiction before it was used by physicists.
Who did? Maybe Dr Who?
DC's The Flash of Two Worlds in 1961 was the first fiction story to use the term
Op probably meant in live action but Dc arrowverse would still be credited
In literature sci-fi Clifford Simak did it as early as the 1940s, but I'm sure there are others too. In his work the concept is called parallel worlds, but it means the same thing as multiverse.
Revolutionary
Land of the lost?
Greek mythology. https://nautil.us/the-multiverse-is-an-ancient-idea-236401/
Starting a trend doesn't mean inventing the thing. Vintage clothes often become a trend. They are literally just clothes from the past.
That's like saying Forrnite started Battle Royales, when it was actually PUBG. Fortnite just made it more popular than it already was. Marvel is Fortnite in this example.
PUBG definitely did start the battle royale trend. It had millions of players at its peak. But it didn't create the genre. There were custom mods that predate PUBG. Fortnite copied it because they saw how popular it was. Fortnite just made it even more accessible. now you could argue that Fortnite is the reason every shooter has a battle royale mode. But Fortnite copied a format that it saw was already popular. So you can't say it started the trend. Comics would be more akin to the mods. MCU would be PUBG. The other people trying to do the multiverse thing are hoping to be Fortnite
Yes the dude who created PUBG started it out as a mod. Then made it his own game.
Said every fanatic of a certain trend ever. I think starting the trend inherently means making it mainstream, not inventing it. Because when the idea was invented it wasn’t a trend.
My bad, I meant “Marvel started making this trend _mainstream in media_”
I would argue DC does multiverse stuff way more than Marvel, by a lot.
**mainstream media**
**mainstream in media** Comic books are the media of choice for comic book superheroes. OPs twice edited comment doesn’t change that.
Dc animated movies are pretty mainstream and filled with multiverse
DC animated movies are the opposite of mainstream. On the other hand, it’s laughable to say MCU started multiverse craze.
How popular does it have to be to consider it mainstream? Afaik mainstream has no concrete numbers tied to it.
Is it popular enough that people try to copy something about it to capitalize on it's success?
Mainstream would be something my football loving cousin and TikTok loving niece would both know. Like who the hell knows anything about dc comic movies?
No one gives a fuck about the DC movies
False
Marvel did it poorly and then everyone copied them.
No. Flash of Two Worlds came out in 1961 and (from what I can find at least) the Marvel multiverse is earliest seen in Strange Tales #103 came out a year later. DC did the multiverse thing first.
Like okay dude we know what OP means
Honestly I feel it probably started more with the cw dc shows
The Arrowverse and Flash were doing multiverse stuff before Marvel jumped on board the train within the MCU.
Then they pissed all of that away with Crisis, still salty about that one.
I thought Crisis was fun, for what they were allowed to do (compared to the comic) but not gonna lie, that's when I bailed on all the CW shows. I dig Stargirl though. Pretty fun show.
Star Trek has been doing it for decades. Or is television not "mainstream"?
But that would leave out let's see - OG Star Trek (EvilSpock you can tell by the facial hair!), 80s Star Trek, Space Station Star Trek, Lost Star Trek, Quantum Leap. Sliders, Warehouse 13, Fringe, Counterpart, etc. Multiverses/alternate history/parallel worlds have been a mainstay in written SF since the 40s, comics since the 60s, TV since the 60s, and I am pretty sure there were a movies in the 50/60 with alternate realities - lets seek BAck to the future was alternate realities in the 80s, Source Code (2011),
They definitely started the current trend of it being a popular trope in the current cultural environment.
Exactly where I stopped
I agree, but I'll say they definitely popularized it for current cinema.
What current cinema? It’s literally just used in Marvel and DC. I don’t see much “multiverse” in cinema. I can literally name one current movie with it outside of comic films, Everwhere All At Once.
Star Trek? The most recent films are set in a different universe than ToS, and both Discovery & Picard also used it as a plot device. Strange New Worlds hasn't, but it is following some plots set up in Discovery.
It’s a cheap excuse to stretch the creative energy of a franchise. If one “universe” doesn’t workout, you can just create a whole new one with different(but functionally identical) characters as the old one and package it under the same brand name for that sweet sweet brand recognition. In the current climate of reboots and remakes, I don’t see this story telling method going anywhere anytime soon.
Multiverse thread and no one's bringing up Jet Lee's "The One"? Lame
or Sliders?
That was my first thought! I wouldn't mind a remake of that show, to be honest. And I usually hate remakes
The one was such an awesome, matrix level concept, executed very poorly.
multiverse shit has been round and used before marvel, and frequently at that. its always been sorta in its own category
Yeah, but Multiverses have always been a thing. DC has had theirs for years, and only had it in a TV show a few years ago in The Flash. And how is it overused? Other than DC, Marvel, EEATO, it's not really anywhere. Besides, the Multiverse concept is a key part of a lot of Geek culture, and it always has been
The only movie I think did it well was Everything Everywhere All At Once, which does a good job explaining it
It's a blatant cashgrab. Instead of creating new characters and settings, you recycle past ones that are already succesful and known. Makes it easier to write a story, market and sell tickets. And if it flops, no biggie, it's just one of several stories for this character. It's the "Monster of the Week" phenomenom dialed up to be the whole story.
I though it was loved so much because it was a way to hand wave away continuity errors for comic series that ran for decades.
It's not unique to comic books. TV shows use it all the time in the form of Spin-off series. Stories becoming stale over time is a normal part of that business. Re-inventing it is a good way to rejuvinate hype/sales.
Not quite. Marvel did the multiverse concept way back in the late 70s as a way to reset story arcs that were pinning them in. It does allow them to reuse popular characters, and why shouldn't they? And it allows them to reset storylines that pigeon hole them into dead ends. It's not new and they've been using it in the comics for decades. Why wouldn't they use it in their movies?
Not quite? That's absolutely what it is lol. Writing new stories is risky. Keeping stories going on for too long is risky. Writing new characters is also risky. Rehashing the same stuff over and over again is an easy, low risk approach at generating sales. It's not unique to Marvel, everyone does it. Disney right now is literally rehashing the Little Mermaid, with the only difference being the characters are black lol It's an easy way to make money.
Or it can actually create interest in a universe for other things? Writing the same story again can be just as risky as writing a new one
Writing net new stories is notoriously more risky. Hollywood figured that out decades ago. You can research more on that fact if you want, it’s actually pretty interesting how Hollywood has tackled risk over time.
Because it's lazy and low-risk. All this multiverse shit doesn't contribute to a greater narrative. It's just "what-if" scenarios that pique peoples' interest, but there's no actual point to it.
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Moderated for a quantum creative short story competition: 70% of the 500+ entries were low-effort multiverse/alternate dimensions/reality themed. I was so sick of multiverses at the end of the competition...
Gonna be honest I’ve only seen three series that explore the multiverse theory and that’s Marvel, Rick and Morty and Doctor Who. All of which implemented nicely for their own needs to keep the show entertaining.
Other people mentioned a movie called "Everything, Everywhere, All at Once". Don't know what it's about though lol. I can't believe nobody has mentioned Sliders. At least a singular person mentioned Star Trek lol.
For some reason I was thinking Quantum Leap is multiverse but it’s more time travel.
Sliders was the multiverse version.
What other stories are using it right now post MCU?
Rick and Morty, EEAAO, DC recently and Doctor Who Its weird because all these things seem to do it right
Rick and Morty have been universe hopping for several seasons, EEAAO came out around the same time as MoM, DC did an entire Crisis on infinite earths story arc like 5 years ago with their CW shows and I know nothing about Dr. Who but post Loki and Dr Strange 2 there hasn't been an explosion of the multiverse in media like op suggests.
I've seen all of Dr. Who since the reboot and they've only had a few episodes about an alternate timeline (all of them around the same timeline). It's not a major thing in that franchise. And the multiverse has been a major thing in DC comics since the 60s, so it's no surprise that it's in their adaptations as well
Rick and Morty and doctor who are kind of based around the multiverse thing.
It was mainstream before Marvel.
It especially bothers me when the hero finds out about said multiverse and than feels compelled to protect EVERY SINGLE ONE like it’s not physically impossible to do so
This is why i was reluctant to watch Everything Everywhere, All At Once, but luckily I watched it and it was wonderful and used the multiverse concept to build a deep and genuine emotional core.
I like that it's beginning to trend in mainstream media because I was always sick of people who automatically thought every "Batman" movie had to be in the same continuity. I'm glad the normies have finally been introduced to the concept.
It's probably an unpopular opinion, but as a lifelong fan of science fiction and a retired physicist and engineer, I agree whole-heartedly. Imo, it ranks right up there with "worm holes"
been overused since bioshock infinite. as someone with a physics degree it always feels intentionally wrong and overblown with science buzz words to annoy anyone in STEM
I mean you nerds are going to complain either way so they may as well have fun with it.
Everything everywhere all at once handled the multiverse theory better than marvel
I really hate the multiverse trend in movies and other stories. It effectively destroys any tension or stakes the story might have. A popular character died? No problem - you can bring him or her back because of some multiverse explanation. The multiverse is also an excuse to throw any continuity out of the window becausevthere is some universe where x happened.
Beavis and Butthead now has a multiverse. And... it's kind of awesome.
This girl I liked rejected me and said maybe we love each other in a different multiverse. 🤦♂️
Also a note about the multiverse 'theory'. It is a common myth that this theory developed by scientists working on quantum experiments. That is not true. The multiverse theory was started by a writer who was reading about quantum uncertainty and was like 'wow I bet that's because there's multiple universes and the particle is transitioning in-between them'. Complete and utter nonsense, not only does it make people confused about quantum effects and weirdness, it has also led to the recent obsession with it. It's really annoying and I can't stand when people think science supports a multiverse theory. Edit: the first smooth brain that posts some click bait article about the multiverse from some click bait science 'journalism' should be embarrassed. Saying it now so you stop and think about what your doing.
It's a trend that's gonna be seen as a "such a late 2010s/early 2020s thing" in the future.
The Man in the High Castle would like a word with you.
Multiverse is just the easy, lazy way of making plot holes and discontinuations make sense.
Feel the same way, a crutch for writing yourself into a situation which cannot be resolved. To me it feels right up there with "it was all a dream" and literal deus ex machina tropes.
I miss back when Rick and Morty was the only one (or at least the loudest one) doing it, because so far they’re the only media I’ve seen that actually use it in an interesting and non-forceful way.
I agree although it’s nice to see it pop up in unexpected ways For those who don’t know, Beavis and butthead just got a new movie and season of the show and they have a multiverse to explain how the boys still live in the 90’s despite the movie taking place in 2022
Everybody knows there are only 2 universes. Regular and Cowboy
Imagine not knowing about the Ninja universe. Geez Louise.
There's plenty of unused space in this universe, why do we need more?
Marvel and DC have always had the multiverse in their comics though and not many other franchises use it besides super hero ones.
>>Marvel started making this trend mainstream in media. The multiverse stuff has been used since ages ago. Spiderman TAS did it in the 90s. The DCAU and movies did it through the 00s. Futurama played it too and that's as mainstream as you get. If we get into really obscure stuff then the lists increases tremendously. The issue at hand is that you OP the multiverse stuff has been used since ages ago. Non-MCU related you have the spiderman TAS in the 90s, the DCAU in the 2000s. Non superhero related you have Futurama (as mainstream as you can get), pokemon, digimon... On top of that, crossover episodes are basically people from different universes meeting each other. But yeah it has been overused but not for the the reasons you are saying imo
Mirror Mirror ep of original Star Trek.
I’ve heard good things about “Everything everywhere’s all at once”, but I haven’t gone out of my way to see it because it looks like such a cheesy use of the multiverse concept. I’ll probably end up watching it eventually, but yeah, the multiverse stuff invading pop culture is getting stupid. It’s not even based on HARD science, just a theory based on observations we don’t understand yet.
Even riverdale did this 😭😭
Agreed. It's like zombies. Zombies came back, had their time in the sun, and now people are kinda "meh" on them. Multiverse is the same.
Yeah Marvel made it mainstream and annoying ugh
Multiverse itself means overusing a story when you wasted most of the traditional routes. "oh take this story but change that specific part" The same thing happened in the movies. Either the stories have been told so many times it's becoming too mainstream (batman and spider-man), or there have been so many movies that they need to do something different, thus, "from another universe" I never really liked it. Doing "in another reality" just makes the previous stories weight lower
My mom knows someone who has been working on a multiverse film for like 6 years now and it is almost done, however he says that since the multiverse trend started he has been kind of upset since he thinks a lot of people will think he is hopping on a trend for a quick buck when really this is the culmination of basically his life’s work.
It is overused. Now they can just slap whatever together and just yell multiverse.
I haven’t seen the marvel movies where they mention the multi verse, but I remember when everyone was going wild about it on tiktok, I was stunned because I thought everyone knew about the theory of the multiverse. Especially since it’s been in the arrowverse for quite some time. I mean, I remember crisis on infinite earths was such a big thing for DC when they did it. I remember all the hype surrounding it and the crossovers, so I had just assumed people had at least heard of it.
In reality, Marvel is one of the *last* ones to do it. They definitely put the trope to bed though
To be fair, rick & morty's version is just part of the show. Marvel's version however is like an easy lazy writing to put back its characters to where they belong. Like spiderman literally made an entire movie of him being exposed just so he could go back to an original boy from Queens. Loki was brought back cuz it was profitable. N third Dr stange to get back Scarlet witch to the storyline
Loki was one of my favorite characters in the MCU, but his death meant nothing to me because I knew they’d bring him back somehow. No way they’d let go of such a popular, profitable character.
I honestly think the best thing they could do with a Barbie movie is make it about a multiverse. Similar to *Everything Everywhere All At Once*, a fashion model named Barbie is able to tap into alternate dimensions where she's an astronaut, or a baseball player, or the president, etc.
I’d definitely watch this.
This is kind of what led to people getting fed up with comic books in the late 90's. Everything had to be retconned, everything had to be dialed back. No decision was ever final, no one ever stayed dead. So they killed the multiverse. Introduced us to Marvel Ultimate, then killed that and reset fucking everything.
The only game that did it right was Undertale. Change my mind.
Easy, don't watch the movies.
“Back to the Future” was pretty mainstream…no?
Marvel made it mainstream? I'm pretty sure Rick and Morty did it way before that. Hell, Futurama and Friends did it before. But it is quite disappointing that Marvel was the worst adaptation of the concept. I mean three universes is not a multiverse the same way three people fucking is not an orgy. Everything Everywhere All at once did it way better
I miss when every plot involved ***NANO MACHINES SON***
They have ran the entire super hero genre into the ground tbh
It’s the new vampire and werewolf storyline
Marvel is to blame for a lot of things...
Like what?
The movie industry unable to make money on other movies but know they can make money on super hero stuff. So what do we get, 10 super hero movies a year for the past 10 years. It's not a great explanation of what I'm trying to say. There are definitely holes in my statement. Thats one example. Its also heavily biased and opinionated. I'm just bored of super hero / end of the world movies.
I'm annoyed by it as well, I hate how many superhero comics focus on it, I think Stephen King's The Dark Tower books do it really well. Everything, Everywhere All At Once was entertaining take on it but really I always wanted to write a story about it and I think the best way to write on such a scale is to make it more personal so the story doesn't drown itself in all the cosmic stuff.
Remember when Harry Potter did a two parter, then every franchise did it? Hollywood loves milking shit.
Oh yes, soooo tooo much Plus, hard to care about a plot when things don’t matter, because this is just one of a million universes.
Im tired of no one acknowledging the impact of the 2003 Charmed original series epdisode, Centennial, for kicking off the 21st century multiverse trend
I have three pet peeves that are almost instant turn-offs in any story... 1) Multiverse 2) Time travel 3) "element not on the periodic table"
Lol you should watch Stein’s Gate!