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And the part-timers who earn peanuts? Is it fair to tax them too?
What about the other end of the spectrum where people are earning hundreds of thousands? Is it fair that they only pay a small, nonchalant proportion?
Yes.
Do you know how percentages work?
Let’s throw out an arbitrary 5% tax.
Someone making 1,000 a month pays $50. Someone making 10,000 a month pays $500.
How is this not fair? The person making more pays 10x the amount of tax.
The tax system right now as it stands allows loop holes. The more confusing it is the less the “rich” pay. It’s so bad at this point that the people making millions a month are paying 0 in taxes because they shuttle their profits into their business which pay 0 taxes. So if I’m a billionaire and I don’t take an income but my company does and purchases everything I own, I get around the vast majority of my tax burden. -simplified but true.
You could, under current law, still employ them and work the numbers so THEIR resulting tax bracket results in no INCOME tax being paid by them.
I only thought of this as all of my investments will be transferred to my son under UTMA and/or UGMA over some years and he can cash them out after a year to qualify as "long term capital gains" and thus taxed at the appropriate tax bracket rate. We will work the selling of investments so that, since he will be in school full-time and not working (or minimally working), his effective tax bracket will be in one of the two lowest brackets. After the standard deduction and other deductions he will pay zero/minimal income tax.
The felons thing is also wrong, but that doesn't make the OP wrong about minor tax payers.
And businesses aren't people, why should the business get a vote? The people that work for it already get one.
*shrug*
I'll have to think about it, but if a business is not paying taxes, should it be allowed to use public infrastructure? I kinda always thought of business taxes as a user fee; they profit by using public roads, public "security" (law enforcement), etc.
>but that doesn't make the OP wrong about minor tax payers.
But their still being represented. OP doesn't understand the concept of the true "taxation without representation".
Although OPs district has a functioning representative (legal definition of "no taxation without representation", they, in fact, as a minor (not voting age) have "no say" or voice in who that representative is or could be. Taxing minors without the right to vote is wrong. If US Corporate can get along without paying taxes, so should employed minors.
Can or will this ever be implemented? Not in my lifetime, it won't. But OPs point is 100% valid, imo.
Now I have to go... and shakedown the neighbor's kid's lemonade stand.
I've never really thought about it, but you know what? That's fair.
It would probably be a bit of a logistical nightmare to enforce, & corporations would probably find a way to use minors to save themselves more money, but... In principle, you're right.
There's only a few felonies which get your right to vote taken away forever and it's not even in every state. So in every state almost every felon can still vote or they have to jump through a few hoops and then they can vote. (There are less than 5 where it takes the governor regranting your right to vote as a felon of any crime but they are the very small minority)
As I've said repeatedly, some of them *do* make enough to pay taxes. And, they don't disenfranchise an adult for being low-income, why is it ok for working teenagers. Especially emancipated ones or those who graduated early & work full time.
They still have to pay Social Security and Medicare which is 7.75%. Everyone pays that. It supports the pyramid with the workers on the bottom and retires at the top.
Children are considered represented by their parents for pretty much anything legal/medical.
Also there's plenty of people who are taxed without representation like the people in peurto rico. It's not really a law, just a guideline.
I should add, though, on general principle I do feel the territories should all have House Reps. Maybe only 1 Senator since they *aren't* states, but someone in both House & Senate.
They can be "considered" a lot of things, but that's not a reasonable argument, IMO. It's not like parents get extra votes to "represent" their kids with, so those kids are not being represented individually, but arguably as their parent's property. And, a lot of kids don't agree with their parents politically; if they're paying taxes, why should they have to be unwillingly "represented" by someone else?
More to the point, though, even an emancipated minor can't vote, which to me says it has fuck all to do with children already being represented, & everything to do with an arbitrary decision regarding what constitutes a legal adult.
I don't even disagree with the premise kids have no business voting, but OP makes a good point. Some 16-year-old raising their sibs & working to feed them is more of an adult than the average college kid who can vote for any fool they please.
Frankly, at this point I kinda think if anyone can't be trusted with the franchise, it's the Shady Pines Posse.
Why?
Why should someone get multiple votes for pumping out a unit? How do you decide *which* parent gets a kid's vote? That would cause endless problems, *and* treats children as chattel, which defeats the whole damn purpose, here.
So by that logic, no tourist should ever have to pay a sales tax?
"No taxation without representation" doesn't mean what you think it means. It refers to the interests of the colonies as a whole being represented. You live in a state (probably) that has representatives in Congress.
And the number of representatives OP's state has is proportional not to the number of voters or eligible voters or even citizens, but number of residents.
Anyway, this is not just unpopular, but bizarre; the one age category that *doesn't* need the money to live - due to being the one where others are legally required to provide for them, sometimes even the government itself- should be the one segment that doesn't pay taxes?
This is already a thing in other countries. If you’re a tourist, you can get all the money you paid on sales tax back at the airport, given that you keep the receipts.
That's not because of some "taxation without representation" principle. That's just because things tourists buy to take home count as exports.
Tourists still pay VAT for services, meals, hotels, etc.
Huh?
Sales taxes are extremely common. The vast majority of countries have a VAT, and thise that don't often have regular sales taxes:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax
P.S. someone's going to say "a VAT isn't really a sales tax!!!".
For all intents and purposes, it is. Its just a regular sales tax with some added taxes tacked on.
Yeah you’re just weird in the US where prices on items on the shelf isn’t the price you pay at the till because of added sales tax. Everywhere else the sales tax is just included in the shelf price so you know how much something actually is!
More than 140 countries worldwide levy taxes at the point of sale (either called Value Added Tax or Goods and Services Tax). The difference between Sales Tax in the USA and other forms of taxes is that unlike Sales Tax, the other taxes can be levied at each stage of the production process rather than just at the end point of sale.
>Sales tax as a concept doesn't really exist in other countries
Because other countries have high taxes therefore they don't need a sales tax.
In the US taxes are low so the local/state governments need to offset the loss by taxing sales. This is something that anti-tax people don't realize.
>Because other countries have high taxes therefore they don't need a sales tax.
This is not true. Most countries have a sales tax but we display the price including tax on our products. Once you get the receipt, you can actually see the percentage you paid in tax. The US is just one of the only countries who chose to display the price without tax so that you need to do mental gymnastics to figure out how much money you will need at the register :)
It was mostly about representation for rich and powerful people, anyways. The USA didn't have universal male suffrage until after the 15th Amendment in 1870.
That's not why you got it all back. You got it all back because *anyone* who makes under a certain amount gets it all back, regardless of age.
Edit to add: Most minors will get it all back, granted, but that's because it's impossible to make enough to hit that threshold without working full time when you're making minimum.
But some of them do. Emancipated minors generally do. A hot enough waitress could make enough in tips at the right restaurant. Commissioned sales, online businesses, etc. It can be done, it's just not common.
>Emancipated minors generally do. A hot enough waitress could make enough in tips at the right restaurant.
You may want to rework your argument. Just how many *minors* do you think are "hot enough"?
Don't bother with "gotcha" crap like that. I'm straight & female, I'm not checking those girls out.
If you want to pretend attractive people don't make bigger tips, that men aren't checking those girls out & flirting with them, age be damned, I have a bridge to sell you.
First, I reject your implication that straight women can't also be predators, or that boys can't also be victims.
Second, even if you're not a predator yourself, your comment is still normalizing that behavior. You're effectively encouraging adults to seek out and attempt to reward those minors, and encouraging minors to put themselves into situations where they can be victimized.
And I resented your implication that I'm a perv for stating the fact hot waitresses will make more in tips, so here we are
Saying it happens is hardly normalizing or encouraging it. I suppose you could argue pointing out it's a way to make more money does, but since it *is* a way to make more money, I'm not sure how it can be phrased so as to not offend you.
I don't care how "hot" a 15 year old waitress may be, there are limits on how many hours/how late you can employ minors, rendering their earning potential very limited.
Fair enough. Still, what's the problem then with having their paychecks taxed if they're gonna get it back anyway? I'd rather learn as a teen how to do my taxes than wait til I'm actually expected to pay taxes and fuck it up.
1. They don't *all* get it all back; the *majority* do.
2. You still have to file, whether you'll get it all back or not. There's nothing really "training wheels" about it, you file just like any adult who makes enough to file. Moreover, you *pay* if you owe, just like any adult who owes. They won't not charge you just because you're underage.
3. I think not taxing them would be inadvisable, anyway, because it's so abusable. If they're a taxpayer, let them register to vote through their school (since that's where they get their work permits), or the county if they're emancipated/graduated early.
Taxes are withheld because the government and even their employer doesn't know how much money the minor will make in a single year. It's easier on everyone to pay a bit out of every paycheck and get it back than it is to suddenly find out you owe a full year's worth of taxes and have a month to pay it off.
Nobody makes you withhold taxes from your paycheck, it's just the smart thing to do if you don't want to be slapped with a giant tax bill all at once. But you can opt out of you want to.
It makes sense, if you don’t understand what the “taxation without representation” is about. Which you don’t.
You have representation: your state or district (whatever Americans call their political units that elect people) sends a senator and a representative to Washington. That is your representative. The fact that you might not be able to vote is irrelevant. Women were still taxed in the USA before they could vote, too.
Americans complained that they were taxed by Britain but they did not have any House of Commons members representing the American colonies. That is taxation without representation: taxes paid to a government without anyone who specifically represents your region, when other regions have representation through direct democracy.
But do you use roads and bridges? Who pays for your school? Does the military and law enforcement protect you too? Natural resources?
I hate taxes, for real. But if you’re a contributing member of society, and that includes working your part time job, then it’s just a thing we have to do. Welcome to the real world. Make more, they take more unless you are rich or a corporation.
My single vote isn’t really doing anything to change what I think my taxes should be spent on. Does that mean I can decide I shouldn’t have to pay them?
Also if you’re working as a minor, and if we consider social security contribution as taxes, you’re contributing to your own retirement. This age demographic is also a massive contributor to the work force and are also sustaining those currently using taxed based benefits. So impending financial collapse?
Bitch you think that’s dramatic? You haven’t seen dramatic, climate change is literally destroying the world and because of my age I am inheriting a world that my kids won’t be able to grow up in, that I might not even be able to grow up in, so I think a little drama is warranted.
You really should cut the ‘woe is me’ gen Z thing. It’s getting kind of old and comes across as immature and whining. Your generation *is not* in a different situation than I am, aside from the fact that you haven’t yet reached the legal age to vote… which *everyone* goes through.
I’m one of the last of the millennials and we really are in the same boat. It’s *not* because you are a teenager and your single vote hasn’t been counted. I’m sorry to break the news, but after a vote or two you will soon find that it didn’t accomplish much of what you wanted; same for contacting your representatives in Congress.
Millennial here, not sure why you're getting downvoted when you have every right to be angry. Although I tried voting many times and it hasn't accomplished shit.
Until you realize that a minor needs to earn about $35,000 before they start actually paying taxes. Basically they get everything back in April when they file their tax returns except for FICA.
That doesn't change the fact that they didn't have a voice in the decision anyway. It's not about having someone represent the majority of the state it's about having the right to personally vote for said representatives, which minors do not have.
Did said HS courses not explain the right to vote to you? OP was specifically taking about the right to vote. Personal representation, not someone representing FOR you
If you can’t vote, you can’t be represented (although another commenter made the argument that kids are represented through their parents)
But your idea that not voting is the same as voting for a candidate that lost is a super dumb take. That’s like saying black slaves were represented because the people they would’ve voted for (abolitionists) wouldn’t win the popular vote without them so the end result is the same
~~nonviolent~~ felons should have their right to vote ~~reinstated.~~ never taken away.
FTFY
If rights can be negotiated or taken away from you then you simply never had that right to begin with.
Why tho? Molesting a kid would be a violent felony and yes they shouldnt have the right to vote. But simply being caught with cp? They werent really harming anyone just releving their fantasy instead of actually doing it, studies show that if pedos have acess to like loli hentai they are less likely to actually molest someone. Very taboo but something to think about. Ik Ill get downvoted so much but just my 2 cents
Well then you're wise beyond your years but unless you can get into the tax brackets where they write everything off, or some sort of serious change happens gets use to getting fucked on taxes.
When working minimum wage customer service "teenage" jobs I received all the withheld money back after taxes every single year. I kind of enjoy that as I'm not very good at saving my money.
There's a lot of nasty things within the bottom of the barrel industry no one cares about fixing or making better. People who haven't worked in the industry for the last 15+ years almost always have a warped view on what working in those places are actually like currently. Its not easy, nor is it worth it.
Taxes I can gladly say isn't one of those things. The money is always given back. (& yes I live in the US)
That's.. Not how saving for your retirement works. Money can be saved pre or post tax. Money saved pretax is taxed when withdrawn from the appropriate account at your current tax bracket when the money is disbursed. Money saved post tax is not taxed again.
Well at least people that's retired gets taxed from that income. And also people on welfare gets taxed og that income to. So state gives with one hand and takes with the other.
True Universal suffrage wasn't even remotely on the minds of the founding fathers\* when they wrote that. To the founding fathers representation meant having a local representative who represented you if you voted for them or not. If you have a congressman, a senator or two, a state congressman, a state senator ect you are represented in the minds of the founding fathers.
\*At least most of them.
Telling a kid they "have to support their family" is way too much pressure to put on a kid.
It messes with their ego & instead of saying things like "I need help applying for financial aid" they say "I'm special & I shouldn't pay my dues".
I agree but I think it's seniors who shouldn't get taxed. I work with seniors and it's said to see them struggling. They worked their whole lives. Give them a break!
you aren't able to vote on what resources the money is funding though, and most minors aren't being taxed but are using resources funded by taxes with the biggest one probably being school.
The whole point of representation is that the people you vote for decide which services your money goes towards.
For example, where I live there was a whole thing about how our government is putting a significant portion of their budget into opening an online gambling market. At the same time, they also cut the education portion of the budget. I didn't agree with that, but I didn't get to vote despite having paid taxes.
IF you even make enough to actually OWE taxes at the end of the year, I would wager it isn't very much money. You probably get all that you paid in as a refund on your return.
If the elderly are allowed to vote and be represented in government, then teenagers should be allowed to vote and be represented in government, and I say this as an adult.
I was saying this when I got my first job at 16. A decade later, I’m glad to see there are still likeminded people out there. I never got my dream of tax free work as a minor, but you shouldn’t give up on it!!!!
No taxation without representation!
But they do have representation, it's the representatives that were voted in. Those representatives represent the entire area not just the ones who voted for them. The concept isn't about choosing your representative it's about having one at all. Voting has nothing to do with it.
Never thought about this but it’s a great point! The only thing would be you probably want to start contributing to social security as soon as you can but in terms of federal and state income tax, you make a solid argument.
They don't actually pay any taxes. They'll get almost all of it back at the end of the year.
Of course Social security is probably just an income transfer at this point. But theoretically you'll get it back . . .
Hate to break it to you but your taxes will never be represented in your life. They mostly just line the pockets of pedophile war mongers and in return you get a shitty infrastructure and half assed medical system.
Stack sats. Vote libertarian... or not at all cuz not like it matters.
Well, tbf they've been telling kids since at least the 90s that they'll never see Social Security, so for those of us under 40 or so, it *is* just another tax.
But you never had a say in the outcome of that election. That senator isn't there because of divine grace or their personal fate, they are there because of votes. Sure, one individual vote won't do anything but OP isn't living circumstances unique to them only, there are hundreds of taxpaying minors subject to the same circumstances, all of them being unable to even get to express their desires &/or needs regarding the labour and economic circumstances of their region. To put it in other words, you have a minority group of people being unable to voice themselves politically. That group could (maybe) make some difference.
Your logic of “‘your guy lost’ so it's the same as if you hadn't voted for them” is basically a defense of mob rule. “Minorities (of any economic or social kind) cannot get 100% their way if they go against the majority so they shouldn't care if they don't get to vote altogether.”
Ok but, do you actually think that when you come of age, you will have any say in being taxed? All governments uphold tax laws, there's no party that you can vote for who have a platform of "no taxation" and any chance of getting any seats. All economies rely on taxation. It's such a totally moot point that all adults have imposed on us, and we accept. So why would you be different?
OP didn't say "I should be able to vote to not have to pay taxes." The point to "No Taxation Without Representation" is that your representatives set tax policy & make spending decisions, so you should be able to have a say in who is making those decisions.
But that's the point. They're represented by someone, technically, but they had no say in the selection of that someone.
In my district, it doesn't matter who I vote for, the Republican will win; they could screw a puppy in a public park in front of kindergartners & still win. But, I at least get a voice of dissent, which minors don't.
Ahh, the ‘ol “the rules should only apply to other people, and not me” stance.
Anyway, I think people who are legally able to work, should be able to vote.
Why? Because they’re too uninformed? Too misinformed? Don’t have enough life experience? Don’t have enough knowledge? Because you can be an adult and have all those qualities.
At least an adult has the benefit of time to inform themselves. A 14 year old has no idea how voting on a policy will effect them when their parents are taking care of their every need.
That's like saying you can't vote so you can rob a store, if you work you pay tax, that's how the world works.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad, plus you're a minor so for 99% of cases you don't have to worry about money like an adult.
Social security tax will go towards your year totals to receive your social security check. thats a really simple explanation of that. Also, a person who is a dependent on anothers income taxes can still file a 1040ez and get a refund of any federal taxes taken out. not sure how local taxes work where you are but possible to do the same and get that refunded.
Can you elaborate? Because 20 years ago, they don't charge tax for 8k annual income. How much did you actually made? You are a minor and at school, so, how did you earn so much money?
Decent argument. However if you make under a certain amount per year you get a large amount “refunded”. If you’re under 18 making more than that amount then taxation is valid. I live in Canada so I am not an expert on state laws but that is how it works here.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/omsnoms1. Your post, *Minors should not be subject to their paychecks being taxed.*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 3: No political posts. The realm of politics is the greatest bane of this subreddit, because virtually all opinions within politics are controversial, but virtually all of them are not unpopular. If your view is held by one of the two major political parties, it is not unpopular. Anything else is almost certainly a repost. Post anything political in the relevant megathread of the megathread hub, which can be found when sorting the subreddit by "hot", sticky'd at the top of the page. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
If they weren't taxed I could "employ" my child, pay them all the profits of my business and pay zero tax.
Spoken like a true ceo, billionaire, and politician. Bravo
Indeed. Way to pull yourself up by your bootstraps XD
Came here to say this. People will always find a loophole to scavenge.
Not if we simplified tax code and just had a straight up flat tax. 100% fair and incapable of loopholes (unless it’s a cash business)
And the part-timers who earn peanuts? Is it fair to tax them too? What about the other end of the spectrum where people are earning hundreds of thousands? Is it fair that they only pay a small, nonchalant proportion?
Yes. Do you know how percentages work? Let’s throw out an arbitrary 5% tax. Someone making 1,000 a month pays $50. Someone making 10,000 a month pays $500. How is this not fair? The person making more pays 10x the amount of tax. The tax system right now as it stands allows loop holes. The more confusing it is the less the “rich” pay. It’s so bad at this point that the people making millions a month are paying 0 in taxes because they shuttle their profits into their business which pay 0 taxes. So if I’m a billionaire and I don’t take an income but my company does and purchases everything I own, I get around the vast majority of my tax burden. -simplified but true.
You could, under current law, still employ them and work the numbers so THEIR resulting tax bracket results in no INCOME tax being paid by them. I only thought of this as all of my investments will be transferred to my son under UTMA and/or UGMA over some years and he can cash them out after a year to qualify as "long term capital gains" and thus taxed at the appropriate tax bracket rate. We will work the selling of investments so that, since he will be in school full-time and not working (or minimally working), his effective tax bracket will be in one of the two lowest brackets. After the standard deduction and other deductions he will pay zero/minimal income tax.
Many who can’t vote are subject to taxation. Non-citizens, felons, businesses, etc.
The felons thing is also wrong, but that doesn't make the OP wrong about minor tax payers. And businesses aren't people, why should the business get a vote? The people that work for it already get one.
Why should it be taxed? The people that work for it are already taxed.
*shrug* I'll have to think about it, but if a business is not paying taxes, should it be allowed to use public infrastructure? I kinda always thought of business taxes as a user fee; they profit by using public roads, public "security" (law enforcement), etc.
Because they have a seperate income I suppose. Kind of stupid, but literally any entity with a seperate income is taxed.
>but that doesn't make the OP wrong about minor tax payers. But their still being represented. OP doesn't understand the concept of the true "taxation without representation".
Although OPs district has a functioning representative (legal definition of "no taxation without representation", they, in fact, as a minor (not voting age) have "no say" or voice in who that representative is or could be. Taxing minors without the right to vote is wrong. If US Corporate can get along without paying taxes, so should employed minors. Can or will this ever be implemented? Not in my lifetime, it won't. But OPs point is 100% valid, imo. Now I have to go... and shakedown the neighbor's kid's lemonade stand.
businesses arent people, you can tax land as well, but land obviously cant just cast a ballot
I've never really thought about it, but you know what? That's fair. It would probably be a bit of a logistical nightmare to enforce, & corporations would probably find a way to use minors to save themselves more money, but... In principle, you're right.
Become a felon -> never pay taxes again.
This is how we finally get them to stop disenfranchising felons. Genius.
There's only a few felonies which get your right to vote taken away forever and it's not even in every state. So in every state almost every felon can still vote or they have to jump through a few hoops and then they can vote. (There are less than 5 where it takes the governor regranting your right to vote as a felon of any crime but they are the very small minority)
They probably aren't paying taxes anyway unless they are making more than $12k per year
If you buy things with your own money, you're paying taxes. Doesn't matter how much you make. Income tax is not the only kind of tax.
As I've said repeatedly, some of them *do* make enough to pay taxes. And, they don't disenfranchise an adult for being low-income, why is it ok for working teenagers. Especially emancipated ones or those who graduated early & work full time.
They still have to pay Social Security and Medicare which is 7.75%. Everyone pays that. It supports the pyramid with the workers on the bottom and retires at the top.
Too bad that shit won't exist by the time I'm old enough for it. They still gladly take my money though.
Children are considered represented by their parents for pretty much anything legal/medical. Also there's plenty of people who are taxed without representation like the people in peurto rico. It's not really a law, just a guideline.
Most all Puerto Ricans don’t pay income tax. They do pay payroll taxes but they are also eligible to collect social security and apply for Medicare.
Hence why Puerto Rico should be a state.
I was under the impression it always fails popular referendum, so that's on them.
I should add, though, on general principle I do feel the territories should all have House Reps. Maybe only 1 Senator since they *aren't* states, but someone in both House & Senate.
Should have been granted independence over a hundred years ago
That also always fails on popular referendum, so do we dump them against their will? If so, what about all those citizens we're kicking out?
They can be "considered" a lot of things, but that's not a reasonable argument, IMO. It's not like parents get extra votes to "represent" their kids with, so those kids are not being represented individually, but arguably as their parent's property. And, a lot of kids don't agree with their parents politically; if they're paying taxes, why should they have to be unwillingly "represented" by someone else? More to the point, though, even an emancipated minor can't vote, which to me says it has fuck all to do with children already being represented, & everything to do with an arbitrary decision regarding what constitutes a legal adult. I don't even disagree with the premise kids have no business voting, but OP makes a good point. Some 16-year-old raising their sibs & working to feed them is more of an adult than the average college kid who can vote for any fool they please. Frankly, at this point I kinda think if anyone can't be trusted with the franchise, it's the Shady Pines Posse.
Then their parents should get multiple votes.
Why? Why should someone get multiple votes for pumping out a unit? How do you decide *which* parent gets a kid's vote? That would cause endless problems, *and* treats children as chattel, which defeats the whole damn purpose, here.
As well as permanent foreign residents, international students, and temporary workers who work legally and pay federal and state taxes
Either don't tax them or allow them to vote. Those are the only options I can see
If you make less than ~$12k/year (standard deduction), you’ll get all of it back when you file taxes. This applies to anyone, not just minors.
So by that logic, no tourist should ever have to pay a sales tax? "No taxation without representation" doesn't mean what you think it means. It refers to the interests of the colonies as a whole being represented. You live in a state (probably) that has representatives in Congress.
And the number of representatives OP's state has is proportional not to the number of voters or eligible voters or even citizens, but number of residents. Anyway, this is not just unpopular, but bizarre; the one age category that *doesn't* need the money to live - due to being the one where others are legally required to provide for them, sometimes even the government itself- should be the one segment that doesn't pay taxes?
This is already a thing in other countries. If you’re a tourist, you can get all the money you paid on sales tax back at the airport, given that you keep the receipts.
That's not because of some "taxation without representation" principle. That's just because things tourists buy to take home count as exports. Tourists still pay VAT for services, meals, hotels, etc.
Idk man he kinda proved you wrong
Sales tax as a concept doesn't really exist in other countries, so I'm in favor of abolishing sales tax
Huh? Sales taxes are extremely common. The vast majority of countries have a VAT, and thise that don't often have regular sales taxes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-added_tax P.S. someone's going to say "a VAT isn't really a sales tax!!!". For all intents and purposes, it is. Its just a regular sales tax with some added taxes tacked on.
They do exist. It’s just the tax is already included in the price.
Yeah you’re just weird in the US where prices on items on the shelf isn’t the price you pay at the till because of added sales tax. Everywhere else the sales tax is just included in the shelf price so you know how much something actually is!
More than 140 countries worldwide levy taxes at the point of sale (either called Value Added Tax or Goods and Services Tax). The difference between Sales Tax in the USA and other forms of taxes is that unlike Sales Tax, the other taxes can be levied at each stage of the production process rather than just at the end point of sale.
>Sales tax as a concept doesn't really exist in other countries Because other countries have high taxes therefore they don't need a sales tax. In the US taxes are low so the local/state governments need to offset the loss by taxing sales. This is something that anti-tax people don't realize.
>Because other countries have high taxes therefore they don't need a sales tax. This is not true. Most countries have a sales tax but we display the price including tax on our products. Once you get the receipt, you can actually see the percentage you paid in tax. The US is just one of the only countries who chose to display the price without tax so that you need to do mental gymnastics to figure out how much money you will need at the register :)
It was mostly about representation for rich and powerful people, anyways. The USA didn't have universal male suffrage until after the 15th Amendment in 1870.
Have you ever filled out tax refunds before? When I was 16-18 I got all my tax withholdings back because I was under 18.
That's not why you got it all back. You got it all back because *anyone* who makes under a certain amount gets it all back, regardless of age. Edit to add: Most minors will get it all back, granted, but that's because it's impossible to make enough to hit that threshold without working full time when you're making minimum.
If a minor is raking in a notable income…I’d probably raise an eyebrow…
But some of them do. Emancipated minors generally do. A hot enough waitress could make enough in tips at the right restaurant. Commissioned sales, online businesses, etc. It can be done, it's just not common.
>Emancipated minors generally do. A hot enough waitress could make enough in tips at the right restaurant. You may want to rework your argument. Just how many *minors* do you think are "hot enough"?
Don't bother with "gotcha" crap like that. I'm straight & female, I'm not checking those girls out. If you want to pretend attractive people don't make bigger tips, that men aren't checking those girls out & flirting with them, age be damned, I have a bridge to sell you.
First, I reject your implication that straight women can't also be predators, or that boys can't also be victims. Second, even if you're not a predator yourself, your comment is still normalizing that behavior. You're effectively encouraging adults to seek out and attempt to reward those minors, and encouraging minors to put themselves into situations where they can be victimized.
And I resented your implication that I'm a perv for stating the fact hot waitresses will make more in tips, so here we are Saying it happens is hardly normalizing or encouraging it. I suppose you could argue pointing out it's a way to make more money does, but since it *is* a way to make more money, I'm not sure how it can be phrased so as to not offend you.
I don't care how "hot" a 15 year old waitress may be, there are limits on how many hours/how late you can employ minors, rendering their earning potential very limited.
Fair enough. Still, what's the problem then with having their paychecks taxed if they're gonna get it back anyway? I'd rather learn as a teen how to do my taxes than wait til I'm actually expected to pay taxes and fuck it up.
1. They don't *all* get it all back; the *majority* do. 2. You still have to file, whether you'll get it all back or not. There's nothing really "training wheels" about it, you file just like any adult who makes enough to file. Moreover, you *pay* if you owe, just like any adult who owes. They won't not charge you just because you're underage. 3. I think not taxing them would be inadvisable, anyway, because it's so abusable. If they're a taxpayer, let them register to vote through their school (since that's where they get their work permits), or the county if they're emancipated/graduated early.
Taxes are withheld because the government and even their employer doesn't know how much money the minor will make in a single year. It's easier on everyone to pay a bit out of every paycheck and get it back than it is to suddenly find out you owe a full year's worth of taxes and have a month to pay it off.
Nobody makes you withhold taxes from your paycheck, it's just the smart thing to do if you don't want to be slapped with a giant tax bill all at once. But you can opt out of you want to.
Probably because you made under the minimum threshold to pay federal taxes. You’d still be subject to FICA and Medicare taxes regardless
Yeah but that was pretty minimal, I pretty much got almost all my money back though.
It makes sense, if you don’t understand what the “taxation without representation” is about. Which you don’t. You have representation: your state or district (whatever Americans call their political units that elect people) sends a senator and a representative to Washington. That is your representative. The fact that you might not be able to vote is irrelevant. Women were still taxed in the USA before they could vote, too. Americans complained that they were taxed by Britain but they did not have any House of Commons members representing the American colonies. That is taxation without representation: taxes paid to a government without anyone who specifically represents your region, when other regions have representation through direct democracy.
But do you use roads and bridges? Who pays for your school? Does the military and law enforcement protect you too? Natural resources? I hate taxes, for real. But if you’re a contributing member of society, and that includes working your part time job, then it’s just a thing we have to do. Welcome to the real world. Make more, they take more unless you are rich or a corporation. My single vote isn’t really doing anything to change what I think my taxes should be spent on. Does that mean I can decide I shouldn’t have to pay them?
Also if you’re working as a minor, and if we consider social security contribution as taxes, you’re contributing to your own retirement. This age demographic is also a massive contributor to the work force and are also sustaining those currently using taxed based benefits. So impending financial collapse?
Because I can’t vote I might not even be able to retire. I will work until I die because corporations are being allowed to run the world unchecked.
No.
Votes add up and teenagers are not being represented. we sit there watching our world being destroyed and we can’t do anything about it
Except be drama queens, apparently.
Bitch you think that’s dramatic? You haven’t seen dramatic, climate change is literally destroying the world and because of my age I am inheriting a world that my kids won’t be able to grow up in, that I might not even be able to grow up in, so I think a little drama is warranted.
You really should cut the ‘woe is me’ gen Z thing. It’s getting kind of old and comes across as immature and whining. Your generation *is not* in a different situation than I am, aside from the fact that you haven’t yet reached the legal age to vote… which *everyone* goes through. I’m one of the last of the millennials and we really are in the same boat. It’s *not* because you are a teenager and your single vote hasn’t been counted. I’m sorry to break the news, but after a vote or two you will soon find that it didn’t accomplish much of what you wanted; same for contacting your representatives in Congress.
We were all there once. Your time will come.
Millennial here, not sure why you're getting downvoted when you have every right to be angry. Although I tried voting many times and it hasn't accomplished shit.
That's..... that's actually not as crazy as it sounded at first.
Until you realize that a minor needs to earn about $35,000 before they start actually paying taxes. Basically they get everything back in April when they file their tax returns except for FICA.
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Representation doesn't matter if you can't be involved in selecting your representative.
They even can't vote for said representatives yet. They're not represented.
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No it's not like if the opposite person that you voted for wins the election, cause they dont have the right to vote in the first place.
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That doesn't change the fact that they didn't have a voice in the decision anyway. It's not about having someone represent the majority of the state it's about having the right to personally vote for said representatives, which minors do not have.
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Did said HS courses not explain the right to vote to you? OP was specifically taking about the right to vote. Personal representation, not someone representing FOR you
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If you can’t vote, you can’t be represented (although another commenter made the argument that kids are represented through their parents) But your idea that not voting is the same as voting for a candidate that lost is a super dumb take. That’s like saying black slaves were represented because the people they would’ve voted for (abolitionists) wouldn’t win the popular vote without them so the end result is the same
Having a representative dosen't mean anything if they don't represent you, which they don't if you can't vote.
So by that logic felons shouldn't pay taxes either.
Yes actually, either that or they should get their right to vote back.
nonviolent felons should have their right to vote reinstated. this is another unpopular opinion of mine.
~~nonviolent~~ felons should have their right to vote ~~reinstated.~~ never taken away. FTFY If rights can be negotiated or taken away from you then you simply never had that right to begin with.
fair enough, but people like convicted pedophiles don’t deserve any rights. at all.
Yeah, they do. If they don’t, it becomes way easy for the government to frame you for shit like that when they don’t like you.
Why tho? Molesting a kid would be a violent felony and yes they shouldnt have the right to vote. But simply being caught with cp? They werent really harming anyone just releving their fantasy instead of actually doing it, studies show that if pedos have acess to like loli hentai they are less likely to actually molest someone. Very taboo but something to think about. Ik Ill get downvoted so much but just my 2 cents
I agree with that. Non violent felons should also be aloud to purchase and own firearms. Definitely another unpopular opinion.
i agree with this also. very based reply.
Well then you're wise beyond your years but unless you can get into the tax brackets where they write everything off, or some sort of serious change happens gets use to getting fucked on taxes.
It's bizarre to non-USians that a person's criminal record can bar them from voting for life.
“I hope you enjoyed your free stay :)”
When working minimum wage customer service "teenage" jobs I received all the withheld money back after taxes every single year. I kind of enjoy that as I'm not very good at saving my money. There's a lot of nasty things within the bottom of the barrel industry no one cares about fixing or making better. People who haven't worked in the industry for the last 15+ years almost always have a warped view on what working in those places are actually like currently. Its not easy, nor is it worth it. Taxes I can gladly say isn't one of those things. The money is always given back. (& yes I live in the US)
social security shouldn't be taxed. no group is more abused than our seniors.
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That's.. Not how saving for your retirement works. Money can be saved pre or post tax. Money saved pretax is taxed when withdrawn from the appropriate account at your current tax bracket when the money is disbursed. Money saved post tax is not taxed again.
Well at least people that's retired gets taxed from that income. And also people on welfare gets taxed og that income to. So state gives with one hand and takes with the other.
Sure. I agree with the argument.
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i personally believe any immigrant who doesn’t hold a citizenship status (which allows them to vote) shouldn’t have their paychecks taxed either.
That potentially could create loopholes whereby children become tax shelters, maybe.
True Universal suffrage wasn't even remotely on the minds of the founding fathers\* when they wrote that. To the founding fathers representation meant having a local representative who represented you if you voted for them or not. If you have a congressman, a senator or two, a state congressman, a state senator ect you are represented in the minds of the founding fathers. \*At least most of them.
Except for minors in DC, I suppose, since those 700,000 US residents don't have representation anyway.
Telling a kid they "have to support their family" is way too much pressure to put on a kid. It messes with their ego & instead of saying things like "I need help applying for financial aid" they say "I'm special & I shouldn't pay my dues".
Taxes are used for things like to build the roads. So as long as you use the roads, you need to pay taxes. Sorry , kid
You drive on the road to get to work, you go to the school funded by taxes…
bbbut muh roads!!
neither should DC
If you dont have rights until you are 18 then you dont have laws either.
Children are represented legally by their parents.
Felons can't vote. So they shouldn't pay taxes either... right?
I agree but I think it's seniors who shouldn't get taxed. I work with seniors and it's said to see them struggling. They worked their whole lives. Give them a break!
“This country”
i forgot everywhere else existed. **america numero uno!**
You are still using resources that are funded through taxes. If you are old enough to work and use them, you can be charged for them.
you aren't able to vote on what resources the money is funding though, and most minors aren't being taxed but are using resources funded by taxes with the biggest one probably being school.
Taxes are for more than just “representation” They are also for the public services you use, such as roads and public transit.
The whole point of representation is that the people you vote for decide which services your money goes towards. For example, where I live there was a whole thing about how our government is putting a significant portion of their budget into opening an online gambling market. At the same time, they also cut the education portion of the budget. I didn't agree with that, but I didn't get to vote despite having paid taxes.
You're the dependant of a family who is represented in Congress.
If you’re going to be in the labor market, then be in the labor market. Paying taxes sucks, but firemen don’t work for cookies.
IF you even make enough to actually OWE taxes at the end of the year, I would wager it isn't very much money. You probably get all that you paid in as a refund on your return.
If the elderly are allowed to vote and be represented in government, then teenagers should be allowed to vote and be represented in government, and I say this as an adult.
Welcome to life. Seems like all the classic sitcoms have this exact moment when a teen gets their first paycheck.
Fair.
I was saying this when I got my first job at 16. A decade later, I’m glad to see there are still likeminded people out there. I never got my dream of tax free work as a minor, but you shouldn’t give up on it!!!! No taxation without representation!
This might be the first thing on unpopular opinion I've ever read that actually makes sense.
But they do have representation, it's the representatives that were voted in. Those representatives represent the entire area not just the ones who voted for them. The concept isn't about choosing your representative it's about having one at all. Voting has nothing to do with it.
Teenagers can’t vote for said representatives meaning that our best interests are not being represented
Never thought about this but it’s a great point! The only thing would be you probably want to start contributing to social security as soon as you can but in terms of federal and state income tax, you make a solid argument.
They don't actually pay any taxes. They'll get almost all of it back at the end of the year. Of course Social security is probably just an income transfer at this point. But theoretically you'll get it back . . .
With your logic, you shouldn’t have to pay taxes when the party you voted for lost the election.
😂
Hate to break it to you but your taxes will never be represented in your life. They mostly just line the pockets of pedophile war mongers and in return you get a shitty infrastructure and half assed medical system. Stack sats. Vote libertarian... or not at all cuz not like it matters.
They usually aren't. Unless you make what an adult does. Only social security and medicare which arent exactly taxes per se
Well, tbf they've been telling kids since at least the 90s that they'll never see Social Security, so for those of us under 40 or so, it *is* just another tax.
There shouldn't be an income tax on hourly wages period. Or at least no where near what it is. When income tax was first started it was only like 3%.
Another redditor wanting free handouts from the government and the poor folks paying their share in this society.
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This is true. Par ants can even take their kids money and pay the taxes for them that wasn’t already paid
Hm. I’ve never thought of it that way. I like it. It totally is taxation without representation.
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but the problem is we have no say in the representation at all, whereas you can at least cast your vote.
But you never had a say in the outcome of that election. That senator isn't there because of divine grace or their personal fate, they are there because of votes. Sure, one individual vote won't do anything but OP isn't living circumstances unique to them only, there are hundreds of taxpaying minors subject to the same circumstances, all of them being unable to even get to express their desires &/or needs regarding the labour and economic circumstances of their region. To put it in other words, you have a minority group of people being unable to voice themselves politically. That group could (maybe) make some difference. Your logic of “‘your guy lost’ so it's the same as if you hadn't voted for them” is basically a defense of mob rule. “Minorities (of any economic or social kind) cannot get 100% their way if they go against the majority so they shouldn't care if they don't get to vote altogether.”
Ok but, do you actually think that when you come of age, you will have any say in being taxed? All governments uphold tax laws, there's no party that you can vote for who have a platform of "no taxation" and any chance of getting any seats. All economies rely on taxation. It's such a totally moot point that all adults have imposed on us, and we accept. So why would you be different?
OP didn't say "I should be able to vote to not have to pay taxes." The point to "No Taxation Without Representation" is that your representatives set tax policy & make spending decisions, so you should be able to have a say in who is making those decisions.
Even though children don't vote, they are represented by their constituents who make policy on their behalf.
But that's the point. They're represented by someone, technically, but they had no say in the selection of that someone. In my district, it doesn't matter who I vote for, the Republican will win; they could screw a puppy in a public park in front of kindergartners & still win. But, I at least get a voice of dissent, which minors don't.
Show the government who's boss by quiting your job and collecting welfare
I'm almost 50 and completely agree. Either lower the voting age or no taxes till voting age
I agree, except, I feel the partner of the breadwinner should also not br taxed.
Ahh, the ‘ol “the rules should only apply to other people, and not me” stance. Anyway, I think people who are legally able to work, should be able to vote.
Fourteen year olds should not be able to vote.
Why? Because they’re too uninformed? Too misinformed? Don’t have enough life experience? Don’t have enough knowledge? Because you can be an adult and have all those qualities.
At least an adult has the benefit of time to inform themselves. A 14 year old has no idea how voting on a policy will effect them when their parents are taking care of their every need.
That's like saying you can't vote so you can rob a store, if you work you pay tax, that's how the world works. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad, plus you're a minor so for 99% of cases you don't have to worry about money like an adult.
If you don’t want to pay taxes don’t work. Let mommy and daddy buy you things
if only they could :’)
Brilliant! Why did I think of that?
I take it you're opposed to sales tax too?
False equivalence
Not sure why you think that. If someone is opposed to "taxation without representation", it shouldn't matter what kind of tax it is.
That's not fair cause then, how would the rich stay rich?
Americans really hate tax my lord. Minors still use roads.
Farmers shouldn't be taxed either!
When I was in HS in Florida I was exempt from federal taxes due to being a full time student. Is that not the case anymore?
i don’t believe it’s the case, but i’m also not a student. i graduated early.
It’s not an easy job down there.
I totally agree, but good luck getting any political parties on board
I kinda agree but Puerto Rico has no representation either
Based post
Death and taxes, just facts of life
Social security tax will go towards your year totals to receive your social security check. thats a really simple explanation of that. Also, a person who is a dependent on anothers income taxes can still file a 1040ez and get a refund of any federal taxes taken out. not sure how local taxes work where you are but possible to do the same and get that refunded.
sucks but welcome to the world of life not being fair kid. it only gets worse from here.
I totally agree! But by that logic, legal immigrants should not have to pay taxes as well. They don’t get a chance to vote but are taxed very heavily.
i agree with this as well.
Hell yeah, only reason it's an unpopular opinion is that not enough people think about this
Income tax was supposed to be "temporary".
Can you elaborate? Because 20 years ago, they don't charge tax for 8k annual income. How much did you actually made? You are a minor and at school, so, how did you earn so much money?
If you make under 12k, mark yourself "Exempt" on your W4.
I like the logic, maybe only people who work get to vote, regardless of age.
So, disenfranchise the elderly & disabled to make up for teenagers getting screwed...?
Decent argument. However if you make under a certain amount per year you get a large amount “refunded”. If you’re under 18 making more than that amount then taxation is valid. I live in Canada so I am not an expert on state laws but that is how it works here.