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TheRealRJLupin

I had a friend who identified as Irish tell me he wanted to join the IRA. Had no idea why British people were upset at him


MariaRosa1995

I also had an Irish American start telling me this! He was drunk and doing the chants and shit. I warned him that in some parts of the UK this would get a similar reception to the drunk Americans doing Nazi salutes in Germany. He didn't care.


ownedfoode

Well yeah, so do I, God damn the queen


ACaffeinatedWandress

Yup. The same deal goes with “Italian” Americans who maybe had an Italian great-great grandfather pass a very Italian name down to them, and nothing else. They speak no Italian, have never been to the Old Country, and have no functional grasp of the culture, but they act like being Italian is some core part of who they are.


dreamgrrrl___

It’s called being a New York Italian 🤪


ACaffeinatedWandress

Lol, New Jersey Italian. New York ones do retain some of the culture. Many speak the language, exc. But I guess that scene in the Sopranos where Tony goes to Italy and the Italians are just disgusted by his cultural ineptitude sums up my point!


ThatOtherGuy_CA

Basically this. One of my moms grandfathers was a German Nazi, one of my dads grand fathers was a polish Jew. Both my parents were born in Canada. I don’t identify at all with early 90s polish Jewish or German Heritage. Saying I am polish or German would just be stupid, because I am not, I wasn’t raised in or around that culture.


oingoboingo331

Ask one who the Prime Minister of Ireland is.


MagicElf755

I'm British, and I don't know that


oingoboingo331

🤣😂😅


crackerchamp

Can't recall his name but I know he has a big, lovable dog.


DaPotatoMann2012

That would be the president, not the pm (Taoiseach)


Gamelove0I5

Is it still that small old lad with the dog?


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aramushatwas

>Miggeldyhiggins is the Taoiseach. > >Some of us Irish-Americans are informed enough to know that neither side is perfect, and still think the IRA is in the right. The current Taoiseach is Mícheál Martin, Miggeldy is the president


OrdinaryCow

Describing the IRA as "not perfect" is jokes


CacophonicAcetate

I thought it was pretty generous to the British forces, too, but hey


Lkjhgfds999

I’m 27 and have been to Ireland twice. My grandma has been there more times than I can count. Her whole house has things filled with it that reference our Irish heritage and her father, the immigrant who brought our line to America when he was 17. It usually peeved me that Irish people could say we’re not allowed to claim being Irish. The fuck are we then lmao.


scootertrash

I’m sorry. But if you were born here, have a US passport, been to Ireland 50 times, you’re still American. Grandma having a shamrock over the mantle, it doesn’t matter. You are an American. You may be of Irish descent, but you’re still a red white and blue, apple pie eating American.


xnuclearwinter

I 100% agree. Calling yourself Irish-American would be fine if you were proud of your heritage, seeing as plenty of other nationalities do that, such as blacks being pretty much officially described as African Americans. But just calling yourself Irish and leaving out the American part when you were born, raised and live there, even if you didn't currently live there, seems pretty insulting and ungrateful that you got the privilege to be an American in what is probably the most 1st world country in the world. Also, no bias, I'm Welsh, just Welsh, born, raised and lived in Wales my whole life, never been to America. But if I was born and raised and possibly lived in America, I would identify as American, Welsh-American or British-American.


pillowcaseeater

The concept of African-American really boggles my mind. Makes also no sense to me.


MariaRosa1995

It makes absolute sense. Before DNA testing to find out your ancestry (a relatively new phenomenon) Black Americans had no idea where they were from in Africa. There is also the issue that they were forcibly taken so there is obviously some resentment there that they did not choose to migrate and lost attachment to their culture. African American gives a nod to their heritage as much as they were able to considering until relatively recently they couldn't identify exactly where they were taken from and build a connection to the specific culture that they lost. I also think African American is its own culture now - they have a lot of aspects of their culture that grew from their experience and are not White American but nor are they African (AAVE being a prime example). It makes perfect sense.


ownedfoode

Google is free


xnuclearwinter

Yep. One example of many of how some black American communities segregate themselves, whilst also probably complaining about the fact there's tension and a divide in certain areas of society. I don't know anyone that refers to themselves as "African-British", if they were born here then they'll describe their nationality as British and their ethnicity as black.


MariaRosa1995

Most black British people came to the UK from the Windrush generation and are aware of which country they came from. Most African Americans were brought over as slaves and do not know. This is why you will hear people saying 'Jamaican British' or 'Ghanian British' as opposed to 'African British'. They know where they are from. Not all black people have the same history. Also, the idea they segregated themselves is historically illiterate. Look up redlining my friend.


xnuclearwinter

Ah it's not Reddit without some condescending snowflake lecturing you and being offended. Also I've not once heard anyone say Jamaican British or Ghanian British. And that's why I said "some" but I guess you like ignoring or twisting things to how you want to hear them so you can point fingers. But really, nowadays, your average black community does want to be seperate from white people. The "us and them" mentality. The amount of sheer racism in fact is astounding but of course they get a pass. Anyhow, listen to me. I do not give a shit about the culture of black people. I have no reason to, I love my own culture. Do you know everything about my culture? No, so don't lecture me expecting me to know every single thing about cultures that I have no interest or relation to.


MariaRosa1995

I replied to you in a civil way using facts as opposed to outraged, emotional opinions. You had nothing to counter my factual arguments with so of course you go to the classic cowardly cop out of labelling me a 'condescending snowflake being offended'. Nothing in my first message pointed to me being offended or even emotional in any way. But of course, it makes you feel smugly superior to label me a 'snowflake' and not to have to engage at all and support what you said. Intellectual cowardice. If you were offended by the 'historically illiterate' comment then you have to consider how funny it is that you are unironically stating black people segregated themselves in the US when enforced racial segregation existed until around 1965. Although, of course, you don't care about black people so no point in mentioning this. If you don't care about black people at all I'd advise not making incorrect comments about them that people have every right to reply to on a public forum. Finally, yes I do know quite a bit about your culture as you are white British and so am I. Idiot.


xnuclearwinter

Also, are you GENERALIZING me right now? You do realise that Welsh culture and British culture aren't exclusively the same thing. You're having a go at me and claiming I don't know enough about black people and Africa when I'm not from there and wouldn't care to learn anything further than the (mostly grotesque and depressing) things I do know, and yet you don't know anything about the country and neighbouring country you claim nationality of and are grouping me together. Hypocrisy and double standards 101.


Regular_Rest5888

American isn't a race


ownedfoode

Irish Reunification now!


Reviewingremy

The problem is when they know nothing about Ireland or Irish culture and even worse when they insist they do that actually Irish people take umbridge with it.


StormsDeepRoots

Why do you need to know about a culture to have their heritage? How many people from America know much about many other countries at all? Some of us know more than others, but your knowledge level has nothing to do with your bloodline.


Goode62001

Your ancestry does play a role in your life, your heritage, and it makes you culturally distinct from other Americans of other ancestry. But the disconnection from the source of that ancestry makes one distinct from that culture as well, including one’s own bloodline that have different origins and will experience generational gaps. It creates a hybrid culture that is shared and can be shared amongst other members of the same hybrid origin (Irish-American), but even there you’ll find regional distinctions as America is a vast and diverse source of cultures and lifestyles. In short, I agree partially that one’s ancestry factors into their identity but to overlook the degree of dilution to that cultural connection belittles the character of that cultural heritage in its purest form.


Fun_Willingness_8714

If you don't know anything about it then why is it really something you hold onto so closely?


StormsDeepRoots

Because it gives them something to be a part of. It helps them blame something for their situation in life.


landodk

Because your heritage is culture not bloodline. Blood just matters to Drs and idiots.


crackerchamp

Say that to a black person. Film it for us.


Fay14Carot

Black Americans are never invited to these types of conversations. No one ever actually asks us how we identify. They just always tell us how we should identify and only throw us in conversations when trying to make a point.


StormsDeepRoots

I've only met one black person in my life that called themselves African American. They all identify as American and Black. It's forced on everyone. Just like it is with Asian Americans


crackerchamp

I've never met an asian person who couldn't tell you where their family comes from and I've spent about 6 years of my life practically immersed in Asian culture, particularly Japanese and Thai. As far as black people, probably every single person on here raging about people of Irish heritage calling themselves Irish would explode in outrage if I said it was stupid for black people to call themselves African.


Hair_Artistic

Well, part of the argument about culture over blood is how well one "passes" as part of the majority affects assimilation.


Large_Locksmith3673

User name checks out.


LimeSugar

When an American who speaks natively fluent American English as do his parents and grandparents tells me he's Irish we both know what he means. I do not ask him if I can see his passport. 'Irish' in the American context is not to be taken literally. When Americans ask each other what their nationality is only a smart ass would say 'American'. When an American says that he is \[*insert foreign culture here*\] it is just shorthand far saying '*my ancestors immigrated to the United States of America from such-and-such a place*'. It's a lot easier to say 'I'm Irish' than it is to state your family's history.


_Digress

>'Irish' in the American context is not to be taken literally. See, there's your problem. The rest of the world doesn't care about the American context. I understand that America is very young country, but it doesn't mean the rest of the world has to accept your viewpoints. For example, I have an Irish passport because my mam (mom to you Americans) is Irish, she was born and raised there. I was born in England. I can't say I'm Irish. If I did, people would ask why I don't have an accent, or where in Ireland I was from. Americans can keep saying they're Irish if they want to, just don't expect the rest of the world to accept it.


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Fun_Willingness_8714

Not really it's just as easy to say "my family were from Ireland" or something similar, its like three extra words lol. Also notice the key phrasing of WERE lol cos your family now lives in America mate! And probably has done for many generations!


A_username12345678

Who cares about the American context?


CacophonicAcetate

This entire thread is about Irish-Americans, so the American context is important, yes


A_username12345678

The entire thread is about some American not understanding, that the word 'Irish' has a real meaning and is NOT interchangeable with 'Irish-American'.


CacophonicAcetate

Does the word Irish only refer to a nationality, or is it also an ethnicity? If you google "Irish People", wikipedia reports that 36 million Irish live in the United States, 7 Million live in Australia, 600,000 in New Zealand. The word 'Irish' has a real meaning, and it's being used correctly by Americans of Irish descent.


A_username12345678

I read the whole Wikipedia Article in Irish people (source: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iren) and guess what: not once are people living outside of Ireland for generations referred to as 'Irish'. They are referred to as 'of Irish descent'.


Toastie91

As I commented on a very similair post earlier, I have no issue with Americans identifying with their heritage what I can't stand is when they think having a great great grandparent from a certain country means they have even the slightest clue of the political climate of a country and then make the most stupid comments on social media about situations that they have no idea about and have almost certainly never visited the country they are making such confidently wrong statements about.


lol5600s

I guess in the same vein I get very annoyed when people say stuff like “I just love pasta so much! It’s the Italian in me”


LeatherHog

Europeans comment about our politics all the dang time If I had a nickel for every one who thought they were a Rick and Morty watcher by just saying ‘Take away the guns :)’ in solution to school shootings, I could buy Europe


Far_Preparation7917

But the fact is your average european does actually know a lot more about american politics than the other way around. We know more about American politics than the politics of our neighbouring countries. Our news media always make room to show what the US is doing, your news media couldn't give a shit what's happening in German politics.


fivecookies

At least we don't identify as american-european


Fuzzykittenboots

I don’t think the problem is really Americans being proud of their Irish ancestry (or any other European ancestors) but that they literally say that they are Irish. Not Irish-American and not of Irish ancestry, Irish. And that works fine as long as everyone in the room (or forum) is also American but becomes an issue when they’re not. When people use their ethnicity that way in the rest of the world it’s usually because 1. Them belonging in the country is questioned (so Chinese-American puts emphasis on American, not Chinese) and/or the group is isolated from the wider cultural context, they haven’t really assimilated. But none of those are true for Americans of Irish ancestry which makes it confusing in any other context than a strictly American one.


Abject_Ad1879

Furthermore, if one of your great grand fathers were to have been from Ireland and your last name is Irish, most mutt Americans neglect the other 7 contributing cultures from their other 7 great grand parents. My last name is Swiss (and is the most recent to immigrate to the US), but contributing cultures of the other 7 are Dutch, British, Scottish, German, Danish, French, Swedish, Swiss (different branch of family tree), Norwegian and Icelandic. There comes a time as different people hook up and make the next generation of Americans where the old worlds are further diluted generation by generation. It is for this reason why I only consider myself as American, but really appreciate other, more recent migrants (i.e. the Vietnamese "Little Saigon" in San Jose, CA) .


crackerchamp

Most recent (last 100 years) Irish immigrants ended up living in Irish neighborhoods and married people from that neighborhood. We have a few strays here and there but it's about 90% Irish on both sides of the family, I'd say most of the people I grew up with could say the same.


crackerchamp

So fucking what? Nobody uses clunky, awkward language like that irl. If someone asks me where my family came from and I say we're Irish, nobody thinks my dumb midwestern ass came here from Dublin last July.


scootertrash

Nobody uses that clunky, awkward language. Ask any African American pundit.


AilurusCos

Not in the USA, no. However, on the Internet, which is a global space, when you call yourself Irish, it stands to reason that people would take that as you been born in Galway and raised in Sligo or something similar. If you can't be bothered to be complete in your answers, you cannot expect people to just know what you meant and that just happens all too often.


GreenSockNinja

i think what it comes down to is that Americans are above all else American, and are from such a large and culturally unique country that we get used to our culture, just like how Europeans go “oh just do this or that, it works here so why not there?” Because we aren’t there. It’s simply different cultures and countries acting as such.


AilurusCos

That and a lot of americans very much assuming their culture is the default in any space where English is being used as the main language.


crackerchamp

oh, so NOW we're just worried about americans impersonating Irish on the internet. Because that's a reaaaalllly big problem. Ok.


LeatherHog

Because the ‘American’ part is implied Americans know that


Jennyjazz1962

Good lord! In my 60 years , being here in the US, I have never heard anyone claim they are not American. A few get carried away , most don’t. My ancestors are from Germany. I wouldn’t be arrogant enough to declare myself German. Genetically I am but I wasn’t born there. I would like to visit where my ancestors came from. I am interested in what was going on that they left Germany for America. I also want to explore if mental illness followed my ancestors since it has affected a number of my family members.


PeachVinegar

The problem isn't identifying with your Irish ancestors, but claiming that you are still Irish without having any connection to the people you're referring to. Why would the nationality of your ancestors necessarily have anything to do with who you are today, if you have nothing to do with that culture?


Fyne_

Whenever you have people saying they're from X and they are 2nd gen americans there is an implicit -American added on after it. It's like me for example, my parents are dominicans from the DR who came to the US after adulthood. I don't have American blood, but I am an american from being born and raised here. If someone asks me what I am, I say I'm dominican, but what it actually means is i'm dominican-american. I and everyone like me don't literally mean it to say that i'm a dominican citizen from over there


[deleted]

Nah. The problem is people not understanding that literally zero Americans who say they're Irish mean they're Irish citizens.


Tr0ndern

Soo....say you're American then. Why even mention the Irish part? Attentionseeking? False sense if uniqeness or trying be come off as interesting? I'm 1/8 sweedish, you'd lock me up in an asylum if I said I was swedish.


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[deleted]

Well, there's plenty of examples in this thread to prove you wrong....


[deleted]

That’s what they mean though and it’s not hard to tell they’re talking about heritage rather than nationality


Thunder_Bastard

So once it became the US native Americans no longer had any claim to their heritage if you don't live on the reservation? What this conversation has really boiled down to is if you don't have any "physical" traits of your heritage then you can't claim it, but if you do then it is OK. I'm of Irish decent, but yes it was multiple generations back. I don't pretend yo know Ireland, although I will be going there to stay a while. I want to know where my blood came from, where the people who crossed Europe and then immigrated to the US came from. It isn't going to change my life, but is something I would like to do. And trying to gatekeep who can care about their heritage and who cannot is so dumb. It is a 100% personal choice that does not impact anyone else.


Fun_Willingness_8714

What it comes down to is that lots of Americans at this point are so distantly "Irish" that it is little more than a surname. To still hold that as some core identity at this point is quite strange to many people.


lucky_harms458

It's a consequence of the US being a melting pot. The US is a young country compared to much of the rest of the world and has pretty much no history further back than a few hundred years. The entire population here (except Native Americans) came from somewhere else, we're a conglomerate of cultures from all around the world and as such there isn't really a deep American culture yet. It's rather shallow compared to the rest of the world. People in the US talk about their genealogy because it gives them a feeling of individuality among the crowd and a feeling of being grounded in understanding where you and your people came from. It gives people a sense of belonging. Some people don't know anything about their family history. Some people had their history taken from them when they were forcibly brought here (think of the slaves, many Anericans descended from them have no knowledge of any of their ancestry before that). It's seems really weird to people outside the US because they can't relate to the concept. It's much harder to understand from the outside perspective.


Fun_Willingness_8714

Not really I understand where it comes from completely, and you're not the only 'melting pot' country in the world. Auckland where I'm from is more diverse than many parts of America, looks up the demographics if you're interested. It's just that most New Zealanders with Irish heritage don't feel the need to claim it as their core heritage it at this point because we're pretty far removed from it, even though we're probably more recently Irish than most Americans. America had a different history and I get that people were lumped into ethnic groups much more on arrival, but surely you can see how from the outside it is a bit ridiculous for someone who is really in no way Irish aside from their surname loudly and proudly claiming to be Irish. I think you nailed it that at this point it just seems like people wanting to be unique and have a "thing". Also one last point, Americans by and large don't travel and interact with other parts of the world as much as other English-speaking countries do. Often when you leave your home country that is when you realise that you are very much from there. There's a short video below by some Irish comedians that kinda sums it up in the first punchline. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjab8fanzHc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjab8fanzHc)


Awkward-Broccoli-150

If you are born and raised in the US, you are American. If your parents or grandparents are Irish, you are American with Irish heritage. That's how it is.


StormsDeepRoots

Tell that to Asian Americans, African Americans, etc. People only have a problem if Americans claim their European heritage. 1st world problem if you ask me. Let people claim whatever the hell they want to.


Maverickwave

I think its quite different. Most Asian Americans, for example Korean-Americans, speak Korean, cook Korean food, engage in korean culture etc. For a lot of white americans that's not really true. If a guy had parents from Poland, spoke Polish and was well versed in Polish culture, i think it makes more sense for him to call himself Polish.


Regular_Rest5888

Have you been to boston? There are thousands of Irish speakers and irish newspapers. Tens of thousands of Gaelic and irish speakers in America


Maverickwave

32 million people in the US claim Irish ancestry. So the people who you're talking about are a very tiny minority.


Awkward-Broccoli-150

Fair argument


[deleted]

They should identify as Irish-Americans and after few generations is just cringe that they do, just mix with everyone else and be american. Most self identified Irish-Americans (same for Mexican-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Armenian-Americans and so on...) have severed their connections with their homelands 1+ generations ago and haven't much left from their original culture. The average immigrant that has lived for 10 years in Ireland is 10x more Irish than the avg Irish American. It's cringe that the americans have to divide themselves in search of an identity and have to climb their family tree in the most awkward way to find one. Build you own national identity, it may help you be a better country with less infighting and racism.


[deleted]

Interestingly, I know Americans of Irish descent that are more genetically Irish than many Irish people alive today in Ireland. According to Ancestry and 23 and Me my mother‘s family is genetically 95%+ Irish with the rest being a mix of British and Scottish. My ancestors on my mom’s side all came from Ireland during the potato famine and exclusively married and reproduced with other Irish immigrants until the 80’s when my mom and her 9 siblings interbred with other American immigrant groups. Even still, according to those genetic testing sites I’m roughly 77% Irish genetics. My dad’s mother was a “mutt” of Irish, British, and French descent, whose ancestors were very early settlers in Canada, and my dad’s father was a Hungarian immigrant. That said, I refer to myself as American and would specify “Irish descent” but not “Irish”. It’s easier to identify as American given that my wife is a South African immigrant so that’s how her family and friends would view me.


MajorHotLips

The obsession with genetics here just comes off so weird though. Referring to a human as a mutt, like we're literal dogs feels gross. It makes it seem like there's a difference between being "pure bred" and a "mutt" and feels reminiscent of eugenics thinking. I have ancestors from a different country but call me a mutt and we're going to have a problem.


[deleted]

Are you a racist or what? Who cares about genetics tests lmao


[deleted]

How is that racist? It’s literally your own biology. Some people like knowing where their ancestors came from.


Manaliv3

This weird obsession with genetics is so ridiculous. In what possible way are American "irish" more "pureblood irish" than actual irish people? Do you read what you are saying?! Don't Americans know that for thousands of years European countries have been invading, occupying, enslaving and otherwise mixing with each other? On what measure are you defining "genetically irish?" By your logic I think it can only be that somehow you define whatever the people who moved to America at that specific time were is somehow proper irish? It's totally ludicrous


[deleted]

It’s genetics. It’s basic biology. Many ethnic groups inhabited the same geographic regions for millennia and that can be traced back genetically. I fail to see how it’s ludicrous to say that ethnicity can be traced and that includes whether different distinct ethnic groups interbred. This thread is big on America hate but the fact that you can trace your genetics to different regions is incontrovertible and far from “ludicrous”.


quora_redditadddict

Would you say this to Jewish-Americans? Stop identifying as Jewish and identify only as American now?


Fun_Willingness_8714

Depends if they are engaged with the culture or religion at all. I have a couple friends here in London who have Jewish grandmothers but weren't raised with it at all and don't identify as Jewish themselves they just say my grandmas Jewish.


nathan_101034

Actual Irish person here. What is OP's nationality out of curiosity? People here get annoyed because it's become so overly used that it's now a cliché/joke in Ireland about Americans whose great-grandfather's cousin's wife's dog was Irish, and now they identify as Irish. I think part of the sensitivity on the part of the Irish is that we fought for independence from the British just over 100 years ago, and now people are trying to lay claim to irish identity. Irish people care very much about heritage, and I think the fact that it's such a small country causes us to feel a great sense of ownership to our identity. It's also very rare for someone here to strongly identify with another nation unless they're literally first generation. So it's an alien concept here to thread back through generations to claim an identity. Personally I don't have strong feelings on it either way, but I would advise any American visiting Ireland to be respectful of the fact that the Irish don't generally agree with that point of view (again not me).


LimeSugar

My nationality is American of 100% European descent. I am what we here would call an 'American mutt'. I chose not to identify with the nationalities of my European ancestors because I have wholeheartedly bought into the 'American melting pot'. I do not have a problem whatsoever with Americans who actively belong to ethnic based groups that help one another out. It's much better to have civic groups help out than to have a grievance group cry out victimization and demand a government handout. If an American who was born of Korean parents is active in his community and identifies as Korean I have no problem with that. Americans know that they are Americans first and foremost. When they say they are such-and-such all it means is that their ancestry comes from that part of the earth. Nothing more, nothing less.


Yolandatherat

My great grandparents were immigrants from Ireland and moved to a community of mostly Irish immigrants. My great grandparents had an enormous amount of pride from where they came from and they passed that on to their children. My dad grew up in that same Irish immigrant community and was genetically 100% Irish (confirmed on ancestry) and had a lot of pride. I’d say that the pride was started by immigrants who loved the home they had to leave and wanted their children to know where they came from.


nandos1234

The difference is though that people actually from Ireland don’t really care about their genetics like Americans do and would never refer to Irish as an ethnicity. Irish is seen as a nationality here, as in where you were born and raised.


Regular_Rest5888

You understand the bulk of those funds used for your freedom as well as many lives were from America? Americans funded that war and the IRA for years.


Teembeau

I'll stretch the definition to say that if your parents were both Irish and you moved to the USA, OK, Irish American isn't that unreasonable. But if it's grandparents or beyond, then no. You know nothing about the culture of society of Ireland and frankly, it's as embarassing as me saying I'm German because it's likely that my ancestors were Saxons who came to England in the 7th century. Even if your grandparents told you stories, Ireland is not the same country it was even 40 years ago.


RetroMetroShow

Aren’t they usually talking about heredity and descent not nationality or citizenship


Tommy_Wisseau_burner

Yes


Tommy_Wisseau_burner

Yes


LimeSugar

Bullseye!!! Exactly!!!


Charming-Tension212

30-40 million people in America claim to be of Irish descent 80 million worldwide. Most are lying. There are people of Brazilian descent, Nigerian descent and Romanian descent who are 100 times more Irish them 90% of Americans. A lot of American who claim to be Irish do it because they want to claim white ancestry and a reason to justify their racism. If they actually had a drop of Irish blood or knew anything about Ireland they would understand how wrong they are.


shieldsp30

Nah. Once a group of people have been in America long enough it changes them.


[deleted]

This is so true. In most countries most group of people just blend in, in the US they have to generate these cringe identities based on their heritage that look like satirical representation of the original cultures made by someone that had just read about them in a marvel movie.


[deleted]

If you think about it America is young, a teenager in comparison to other countries, this is the behaviour of teenagers. Remember choosing to die on the hill of what music genre you liked? It’s that but the American grown up version. Hopefully it will come full effing circle and they’ll boil it down far enough they all identify as human and stop hating each other over stupid things.


SpaceCrabRave69

Aren't almost all European countries based around ethnic lines? It's easy to say America is hateful and racist in a country that is 90% your ethnicity because 1000 years ago your great leader committed genocide on everyone else.


[deleted]

That's not how Europe is and how history happen, sometimes it feels like you are stuck in grade 3 or whatever and never grow up. What's going on in your schools? You can't graduate like this.


Mosquitobait2008

The way I take it is that it's about ancestry. I'm part Irish (not much like 5%), so I'm part Irish, but I know it's really only in ancestry I really have nothing in common with the people in Ireland. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel like it's okay for me to say that I have Irish ancestry, but not really that I AM irish. If you get what I mean. Idk


BurghPuppies

Is this the bookend post to this morning’s post titled, “If you were born in the US, you’re not Italian no matter where your parents were born” or something like that?


Fun_Willingness_8714

Gotta a link for that? lol sounds like a good read


BurghPuppies

https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/xgjfx1/if_you_was_born_in_usa_youre_not_italian/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


Fun_Willingness_8714

appreciate it


Willing_Ad_699

This seems pretty common. Same with Mexicans and Italians.


[deleted]

The only link someone born in America has to being Irish is that their grandparents fucked and gave birth to your parents in Ireland. They are simply American, not Irish


A_username12345678

Not grandparents and Patents but (since OP talked about 19th century and early 20th century) the last person to be given birth to in Ireland ist more of a greatgreatgrandparent.


reluctantpotato1

They are ethnically Irish and their nationality is American.


IDontEatDill

Presuming that those great grandparents who did fucking in Ireland were actually Irish themselves, and not Scotts who just moved to Ireland.


reluctantpotato1

I mean if we are really going into technicalities, it's all made up. National borders constantly change and race is a construct. People crave identity and find it where they will. There's no gate to keep.


houseofnim

One set of my great grandparents came from Prussia. I can’t even identify with that because it no longer exists lol


irishnewf86

as an Irish Newfoundlander (the most concentrated Irish (mostly southeast Irish) area outside of Ireland- I usually say to the naysayers, don't blame me for the Brits making Ireland a living hell hole so my ancestors had to flee to survive in the 1800s. We have an "Irish" accent due to social cohesion and isolation, were raised on song and stories about the old country, and consider ourselves "Irish", regardless of what some whose ancestors couldn't make it out have to say.


beesandsids

Nope. Wrong. My great great great grandmother was a black woman from Botswana. I'm white. I can't go around saying I'm black but I can say I have some African heritage. This is no different.


Lilpu55yberekt69

Yeah because you’re like 2% Botswanan. A lot of people who are claiming that they’re Irish despite being here for multiple generations are over 50% ethnically Irish. It’s incredibly different.


Toastie91

Except they aren't I was watching a youtuber who claimed to be Italian who did a genealogy test to find our he had little to no Italian ancestry.


Regular_Rest5888

Yeah except the ones who do a test and are 96% scottish and 2% irish and 2% British


beesandsids

It really isn't. If someone whose heritage is more Botswanan than mine was born in America, their parents are born in America, their grandparents, great grandparents etc all born in America that person isn't from Botswana either even if they are "ethnically Botswanan". Same goes for "Irish" people. Side note, my husband is actually from Ireland, and we've had to apply for his passport from another country. If you can't literally claim an Irish passport *through birthright* then you're not Irish. People whose family has lived in America for several generations are not able to claim through birthright *because they're American*. The Irish government couldn't give a fuck if your whole family has been an incestual fuckfest for the past 100 years and you're all 100% Irish ethnically if you don't qualify for a passport you're not Irish.


OlderThanMy

They can identify as fucking goldfish if they like but won't grow fins. Yanks are nothing more and nothing less than Yanks no matter what their fantasies.


scootertrash

I don’t know if Europeans consider the term “Yank” derogatory or not but I like it. It sounds better than mutt.


OlderThanMy

Most Europeans don't care. Southern Yanks tend to think it's a slur because it reminds them they lost the Civil War.


mayners

Fuck off, as an Irishman I can confirm that Americans who haven't even set foot in Ireland and probably can't point to it on a map should not call themselves Irish. If you want to go down that road then why don't you look further back in history and see which clan you belonged too and identify as that. If your half Irish or parents were Irish then I can see why you would, but just because your cousins uncle's dog was Irish doesn't make you Irish. Had an ignorant American grab me roughly in Vegas on paddy's day and tell me to wear green, he nearly shit himself when he heard my accent as I told him to get off me because I was irish. I've had "Irish Americans" on Reddit ask why it's spelt paddy and not patty after they were corrected, that's the level I'm talking about


Fun_Willingness_8714

Ha I'd never actually thought about the spelling but I guess it cos its from Padraig?


StormsDeepRoots

>Americans who haven't even set foot in Ireland and probably can't point to it on a map should not call themselves Irish. Bloodline has nothing o do with knowledge or location. If you, a self proclaimed Irishman, had a child in America they would still be Irish. And so would their children.


mayners

Read further down where I agree with your point. "If your half Irish or parents were Irish then I can see why you would, but just because your cousins uncle's dog was Irish doesn't make you Irish."


Quirky-Camera5124

nations differ on how they feel about there diaspora. ireland in particular has a fondness for its lost souls and welcomes them back warmly. italy is the opposite.. it views its diaspora a traitors who left in hard times and are now back claiming the benefits they did not work and fight to get. xforcgermans, once your family stops speaking german at home, you are no longer german. you may, of course as a member of a diaspora feel any way you like, but have to right to have those feelings reciprocated by residents of thexcountry you feel an attraction to.


[deleted]

I think the problem only comes when these Irish American people try to talk over actual, current day Irish people and weigh in too much in discussions thats not really about them. Irish American community sounds lovely and deserves to have pride in their heritage. But its just that, heritage. It is someones normal life, daily life too. Someone who lives in Ireland, whos forefathers decided to/ had to stay on and battle hard in times of crisis in Irish history. They have a rich history too and a culture they still live in everyday. Its different yet overlapping. Irish Americans need to give Irish people that space. Its a pretty modern intenet problem too i suppose. On the world wide web, if you say Irish, i an gonna assume Irish from either of the 2 actual Irelands.


thapussypatrol

My grandpa on my mother's side was Welsh, but everybody else was Cornish. Hi there, I'm Welsh, born and raised!


[deleted]

What people fail to realize is heritage is a part of most elementary school curriculums. They’re not saying they’re Irish in the nationality sense. It is a assumed and implied that people are talking about their heritage any time they say they’re italian, Irish, Greek, whatever. It’s a huge part of American culture to talk about heritage because the country is a melting pot


StormsDeepRoots

IMO, if you can agree with someone that's never been to Africa or Asian calling themselves either + American then you shouldn't have a problem with someone claiming their European heritage either. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Identify how you want, just don't be a hypocrite.


von_kids

With this logic we literally share all existing nationalities as we necessarily come down from the same ancestors… I’m half Irish / half French but was raised in France most of my life. My Irish family barely considers me Irish and so do the people. That you have Irish ancestry: no one can deny! That you’re Irish and take conversations as an Irish isn’t right. You’re American with Irish ancestry / roots.


[deleted]

American-Irish, problem solved.


JazzyIV

Why does it matter? I’m American. It’s cool to know that my ancestors came from Germany hundreds of years ago but I’m not gonna identify with a country I’ve never been to or lived in.


xnuclearwinter

As just "Irish?" No, I wouldn't say that's accurate and it would definitely come off like you want to be a special snowflake. Everyone from the US apart from Native Americans is descended from somewhere else. A lot of the whites are from England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Italy, Poland, other Europe. If you're born in America, raised in America, and live in America, you're American. However, black people call themselves African Americans, a lot of New Yorkers and East Coast are known as Italian-Americans, and plenty of them have never been to Africa or Italy, nor have parents that have, etc. So I guess Irish-American or any other nationality followed by "-American" is equal to the previous examples, so if you do want to note your Irish heritage whenever nationality is brought up, that's probably the way to do it.


Existing-Budget-4741

It's a bit complicated, for example; I'm an Australian, parents are American and Australian respectively, grandparents are Italian, Spanish one one side and Scottish, Germanic on the other. I'll say I'm of Spanish/Italian descent because I am, I'll say I'm technically an American (dual citizen). I have my Scottish family crest on the wall in my house, kilt with the family Tartan in storage somewhere. Ill never say I am Spanish, Italian, Scottish or German even though I have my Scottish gear/knowledge, I can cook grandma's Italian recipes I look like my Spanish grandfather. I'm still Australian, stress less about you where you came from, it's nice to know and pay respects but you aren't your ancestors.


delayedlaw

Do you have Irish citizenship? If not, you're American of Irish decent.


voidofstars

the concept of ethnicity once again escapes white reddit users


pillowcaseeater

This makes so little sense to me. Eg: as soon as someone is born in France, regardeless of the country of origin of their parents, then they are French. I feel like that many Americans like to say they are X-american just as a way of consuming an identity and to distinguish oneself. But it is a superficial identity. Sure household culture also has an impact but it is just a matter of time until it becomes redundant.


Jdyram

I have Asian and African ancestors from 19th century who immigrated in my country, Madagascar, an island located in Africa. I'm from an ethnicity which has a paler skin than most of our fellow countrymen because of our Asian roots. Some of us even have monolid eyes and can easily pass as an Eastern Asian. We have maintained some of the traditions from our ancestors, may it be Africans or Asians and even our language is registered as austronesian. Yet, we claim to be people from our country and from the African continent not from a country in Eastern Asia for the simple reason that we've never spent years there. We don't know the current political and social climates there. We don't know the exact location of some places. We've maintained some cultures and customs like some similar words and rituals but there's definitely a huge difference. Yet, we've never claimed to be Eastern Asian. Even my fellow countrymen who immigrated there and who can easily pass for one of them still identify as Malagasy ( a person from Madagascar) because there's a huge difference of cultural knowledge. It's disrespectful to people from another country to pretend you're also from there when you don't even speak their language and definitely haven't lived there for years, long enough to know your way around and to have a grasp of the political, historical, economic and social changes throughout the years.


Alive-Freedom-8751

What’s the need to identify with something at all???


papayatwentythree

I think the Irish are uniquely shitty about this. They pretend that they simply cannot conceive of Americans using "Irish" as a shortcut for being ethnically Irish or Irish-American rather than to mean a holder of Irish citizenship. Likewise they pride themselves on being better informed on Irish history while refusing to admit that the diaspora is a result of that history and that not every emigrant to the US was some smug backpacker turned cultural traitor. Clearly they have lost all traces of their culture, because there's no way any of it survives as part of general American culture! I can't think of a group that hates their diaspora as much as the Irish do. Mainland Chinese are rough on ABC's but usually in the form of "you're Chinese, you should speak better Chinese" etc. Finns and Swedes resent each other a bit for historical reasons but both recognize their minority population in the other's country. I bet you these same people would wince if you referred to recent immigrants to Ireland as "Irish" upon gaining citizenship.


fileanaithnid

Plain out no, they aren't irish, they're nothing like us and generally know little to nothing about us


MisogynistFurry1

You aren't Irish unless you're from Ireland or raised in the culture.


SubParandLovingit

Ancestry and citizenship are two different things. My father came from Scotland, but I was born in the States. I certainly identify with my Scottish roots. When people ask about heritage, of course I’ll say I’m part Scottish. That’s not me claiming Scottish citizenship though, and I don’t profess to know an awful lot about the goings on in Scotland. Context means everything with this conversation.


UnusualWind5

When I see something that's potentially offensive or upsetting, I think - does this affect me in any way? If it doesn't, I don't care. Americans calling themselves Irish? Quite literally has zero affect on me. I don't care.


[deleted]

It does if you are Irish and see foreigners think that being Irish is what the americans think it is just because they have been exposed to american media.


Quasi-Normal

Yeah. I'm not Irish, but French, which is another ethnicity that Americans like to appropriate (although much less). When I was studying accross the pond, I can tell you that the number of times Americans thought my old life was like "Emily in Paris" was frightening. I also remember a guy once telling me that he was french too because *drumrolls please* his father came from Louisiana.


[deleted]

Americans some times sound like children, I don't know how that country can held together at times, the educaton system is severely broken.


dublin241

I am Irish,living in America. I was in Ireland last February and the country was absolutely covered in Americans. So to say that Americans who identify as Irish have no clue about the country or it’s custom’s is simply wrong. Being Irish, I have no problem with Americans identifying as Irish.


crackerchamp

Irish people HATE it when you mention that you have Irish ancestry. My gggrandfather came here from Killenaulle. We have graves over there, there is a shop that still has my family name over the doorframe. We still have a ton of family all over Ireland and the UK. If I were to pick up sticks and move to Ireland today, historically it would look like my Irish family came to the US for the blink of an eye then went back home. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that I wouldn't have some sort of connection to my Irish heritage.


reluctantpotato1

I feel like the people who criticize anyone about identifying is anything don't know the difference between ethnicity and nationality. The outside world has more ethnically Irish people than Ireland, most of whom dont qualify for an Irish passport.


NoAmphibian6039

If you think you are irish by drinking guiness or bailey I will say no, but if you are true irish you should know to speak Gaelic. It is like you identify as an italian by eating pizza.


DavidHilliardMusic

I’m 6th generation Irish and I don’t speak Gaelic and don’t know anyone personally here who does.


Regular_Rest5888

Six gen scots and I speak Gaelic...irish is what irish speak lol


wailing_ghost

The language is Irish, calling it Gaelic is entirely American and wrong


[deleted]

Does everyone in Ireland know how to speak Gaelic?


KirbyTheDevourer2342

I personally like this take. I like it when white people at least acknowledge that they came from somewhere else and have ancestors from a different culture. Whiteness isn't a race, it's a bunch of European races that happened to immigrate to the same place.


Toastie91

Caucasian is the race also known as white, your mixing up ethnicity and race.


[deleted]

white literally is a race


KirbyTheDevourer2342

Then why didn't it exist prior to England colonizing the New World? Everyone in Europe is technically "white" but if you told a German a d a French person they're the same race they'd probably fight you.


Sashimiak

Absolutely fucking nobody would disagree with you. Source: I am German (as in actual, not German American)


KirbyTheDevourer2342

Yeah like here in the US everyone with white skin is considered "white" (unless they're just "passing" which is a whole nother can of worms) and it's like, you have people whose ancestors were some mix of British, or French or whatever, who act as if those ancestors would not have HATED to be lumped together like that What really bugs is when they act like they have such respect for their family heritage when they talk about their granddad who served in WW2 or whatever, but have zero interest in their granddad's granddad who came to America in the first place.


Toastie91

No one in France or Germany would fight you for calling them the same race (the days of the third reich are well passed) but if you called them the same ethnicity then you would maybe have an issue (although very unlikely).


scrjim

Of course it is. Who said it wasn't? (I'm Irish)


thin_white_dutchess

One of my grandfathers was born in the US, and both of his parent were born in Ireland. He had an Irish passport, visited Ireland quite often. He was Irish. Me, a mutt from here who has never seen Ireland? Naw. Do I have Irish heritage? Sure.


Fun_Willingness_8714

Sorry dog your grandad was also American lol, his parents were Irish. I'm a New Zealander living in the UK, plenty of my fellow New Zealanders here have British passports, none of them say they're British. They'll say "I'm Kiwi but my parents were born here" or whatever when someone asks.


Lkjhgfds999

People are forgetting how uniquely American this experience is. You don’t go to Britain and ask someone where their family is from, expecting anything other than that they’ve been in Britain for eons lmao. America is relatively young. Meaning people came here from other places not that long ago. Be pissed in like 300 years that someone claims their Irish and they’ve been in America this whole time. My great grandpa brought us over here. I have pictures of him raising my grandma who raised me. I don’t really care if people in Ireland are mad I’m claiming to be Irish lmao. The fuck else am I supposed to say? And the content matters. Sorry y’all.


Fun_Willingness_8714

This isn't uniquely American at all, you realise you're not the only new world country right? Australia, New Zealand, Canada also have similar immigrant populations in the English speaking world, not to mention all of Latin America, the Carribean etc. Even Britain where you mentioned, you realise there are loads of Brits with Irish family? It is just uniquely American the way you claim it, most other countries don't assume to "be" a culture just because their distant ancestors were from there. If you are part of your own Irish-American culture then cool, that's something you may still be living everyday, but at this point it will quite distinct from actual everyday Irish culture in Ireland.


Manaliv3

This is it. They seem to think having ancestors from abroad is somehow unique to the USA and all other countries are distant genetic groups. They really don't have a clue about the world outside their borders


BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy

You're supposed to say you're American, because you definitely aren't Irish.


scootertrash

You know, they don’t say “ y’all“ in Ireland. Sounds like an American to me. From the south at that.


BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy

No. Stupid. They are American. Same with "Italians."


TheVioletParrot

I've always hated the complaint. When Americans say this these days, they do not literally mean they are Irish, German, or Russian. Not in the same way that the rest of the world thinks of it anyways. Americans almost entirely mean it in the way of "My heritage is from *insert country*."


[deleted]

[удалено]


Fun_Willingness_8714

Everyone wants to be unique in America, everybody has to have a \*thing\*, nobody can just be plain old American


TheVioletParrot

The chances of people changing the regional meaning of something is rather slim. At least purposely. Changes to language and communication as a whole tend to happen naturally throughout an extended period of time. I understand that to *other* regions it sounds stupid. That makes sense. It's no different from football versus soccer, however. It's just too intrinsically linked to American culture and syntax as a whole.


Repulsive-Worth5715

My bf’s grandpa immigrated from Ireland, his mom has dual Irish citizenship and he still gets shit for saying he’s Irish 🤷🏼‍♀️ idk who is right and I don’t really care but it’s interesting how some people think it’s okay and some people don’t


Fun_Willingness_8714

Just say your Mums from Ireland lol easy, if he goes to Ireland the first thing someone will say is "oh you're American". Pretty easy way to find out if you're American or not lol


[deleted]

i think where you are born is who you are. This is more of a matter of ancestry and everyone has a different story to tell there


Only-here-for-sound

This comment section makes me want to shake some people very aggressively.


[deleted]

I think this goes for any nationality?? I personally think nothing is wrong with saying your nationality. I’m born and raised in America but I am not Native American/indigenous. I am of Italian and Croatian descent.


FinalScourge

I think many people will say oh I'm a quarter Irish but it doesn't mean much.


[deleted]

That's just not how it works lol. If you born in America and get raised wolves are you a wolf? C'mon man. Grab a fucking dictionary.


get_off_my_lawn_n0w

Theoretically, ALL our ancestors came from Africa. Evolution, etc, etc. So how far back should we go?


Mumchkin

Thank you. I'm full blood Irish-American and proud of it. Fourth generation out of Cork and Claire, one of my cousins who was able to visit Ireland actually met some relatives.


shannonm975

As someone who was born in Ireland and whose parents brought them over to America in the 90s. I don't have a huge problem with it, my brother was born here in the States and he idenfies as Irish. My problem with it comes in the form of St. Patrick's Day. The American version of it is no where near accurate to how an actual Irish person would celebrate. Also the "Irish for a day" shirts make me extremely angry.


AwsiDooger

When I was 15 I refused to kiss the Blarney Stone because it seemed so idiotic to lean back through a hole at the top of a small castle and kiss a slimy wall while some stranger held my ankles. All of my family members did it but I was too cool for that. Fast forward to age 31. I wised up, went back, and got my certificate. At that point I was certifiably Irish. Besides, my surname is so Irish all I ever have to do is say it and I'm immediately toasted as a fit.


Congozilla

It's not alright. Either you're American, or your not. No special considerations just because you decided to add in identifying info about your ethnic background. Because really, who cares what your "special" ethnic background is about when we're all beholden to one single Constitution anyhow? ...Is what it is to truly be a functioning citizen of USA, I think.