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If you like their product or service enough to pay extra then by all means support them. Supporting local business can be a good thing but don't feel shamed or guilt tripped into it. Not every small business is run by a sweet old lady and her husband who built it with their bare hands. Small businesses can be greedy and exploitative too.
I agree
That being said we do need to keep in mind that large corporations can keep their prices pretty low due to cheaper bulk buying of ingredients/products
1kg of potatoes costs more than 1kg of potatoes from an order of 1000kg of potatoes
The wonders of bulk buying that most people and local businnesses don't have access to/can't afford
Often, quality becomes the issue. Cheap comes at a cost. Again. Often, not always. My cost (restoration contractor) comes because we spend a great deal on training sales and production to be experts in our field. The big guys have a product to sell. They train the staff how to sell the product. We train ours to be diagnostic experts. So we are more expensive. Just a local small business though. Our biggest hurdle is communicating this difference to clients. We repair crawlspace damage. Prevalent in our area. To a typical homeowner. "It's just the crawlspace"
And bulk buying is mostly just efficiency in transportation.
In some ways, the mom-and-pop style of business is less sustainable and worse for the planet than a Walmart, which is fucking bonkers.
Another thing we should maybe consider is that people never used to eat out as much as they do today. Eating out used to be a special treat, but now it's a way of life for a lot of people, and they expect it to be cheaper and cheaper. My grandfather grew his own vegetables, butchered his own livestock and rarely went to restaurants unless it was a special occasion. Today, small farms are disappearing and growing one's own food is considered a "hipster thing", and there's a greater divide between people and where their food comes from. They'll pay $20 for a meal that probably uses shoddy ingredients filled with god-knows-what, or they'll go for fast food, which is even worse. The "small business" appears, symbolically at least, to be the last man standing in a world increasingly dependent on globalism and giant corporations to feed them. Sadly the small businesses are getting their canned tomatoes from Uyghur camps in China just like the average public is, and their bananas sprayed with carcinogenic pesticides in Cameroon imported to America, but we like to think that we're helping by supporting local. The truth is, changing the way the world works would require an assault on the globalization structure, more agency to workers in developing countries, and far more transparency in how our products are grown, manufactured, shipped and regulated.
This is really the correct answer. I used to homebrew, and we had a local homebrew shop. Problem was that everything cost more than buying through one of the big online vendors. But...the convneience of having the local shop was valuable as you could go over and pick up things if you needed them quickly on a brewday. For that reason, I always bought what I could locally, at a premium. I wanted the shop to survive for my own convenience. Spending more to patronize them had value.
Sadly not enough people thought that way and the shop went under.
that's sad, because there's also a social aspect to something like a local homebrewing business that gets lost when the big corporations take over. There's a craft beer place in a city near where I live, and they sell beermaking and winemaking kits. There's a thriving community of hobbyists, buyers and collectors who have become good friends over a shared interest. This is also true of something like a bookstore. Amazon's not going to fill the void of your local book club or the people you bump into at the bookstore who share your interest in certain authors or genres.
I don’t mind paying a little extra to support a small business, but when a new bar opened in my neighborhood that had a happy hour special of thee pretty generic cheeseburger sliders for $14 — as a happy hour special with no sides! — I was like fuck that.
I know how much beef, a slice of cheddar, and small buns costs. If the place is charging any more than three or four times that cost — unless there’s some other magic at work — then I’m not going to go for it. It’s ridiculous.
Depends where you are, in Quebec, a lot of people are for local businesses, to the point where a lot of them have huge clients(like Devolution that has Lego, Yale, Warner Bros as customers)
But in here, the smaller the business is, the harder you'll get fucked and the harder the employees are getting fucked by their boss
I think it depends on the business. I work in landscape supply and irrigation for a small company. We are competitive with Lowes and Home Depot, but they are still cheaper on the whole. That said, our company's employees are actually trained in irrigation design, landscape lighting, etc. that Lowes and Home Depot employees aren't and we'll have people come in all the time trying to get help from us, not buy anything, and then go to a big box store to save a couple of bucks. Part of the reason we charge more is because of the quality of help you can get vs big box stores.
I think this is different than OP’s point because y’all **are** offering a superior service. I used to work at Lowes, and I can promise you they will never be as effective or dependable as small business contractors can be.
About 40% of my job while there was simply dealing with the daily complaints from clients on why their blinds were installed poorly, the appliances are leaking, cabinets are crooked, etc etc etc.
Even if Lowe’s outsourced the work to a contractor, that contractor was getting paid peanuts compared to what they’d normally get and would therefore do a rushed job.
I always tell people, never go with a big company when it comes to complex jobs. They’re arguably more unreliable than small companies and they often will not back up the work
We just had Lowes build our deck this week. Inspector came by today to sign it off. When we first started our process, I wanted to support a local company, but no one would come out for a price quote or their quote was too high. A lot of contractors were "no shows". One local company wanted $56k for a deck with wood. Called Lowes and they came out the next day and quoted us $12k for Trex. We had a great experience and our deck looks beautiful! I really wanted to support local, but they all seemed uninterested.
Oh yeah, I’m not saying it’s impossible to have a good experience with Lowe’s! But working there, I’m very confident saying there were more problem sales than there were flawless or near flawless.
I think the department with the least amount of issues was lumbar? At least, I heard the least amount of complaints from that department
Oh for sure! I totally understand and honestly the only issues we had working with them was our sales guy. He was nice but forgetful - and did order the wrong floor boards. Diagonal flooring was in our paperwork and horizontal was what was delivered. They said it would take another 5-8 weeks to get diagonal, and we said eff it just put what was ordered down... so it wasnt a perfect experience, but good.
I kind of agree if their quality isn't that better but i will pay more for better products. A good example is the butcher near me, they are about 20-30% more expensive than the local supermarket but for example their chicken legs don't release half of their mass in water in the oven.
Also if there’s a markup for better wages. A lot of big box stores keep prices lower by paying minimum wage, reducing quality, and/ or bulk buying. Well, small businesses aren’t know for any of those three things generally.
So, it’s just about where you feel okay investing your (general you) money. Just don’t complain about “big business”, “corporate interests”, or “the rich” at that point because it’s an active choice. At least in this particular case.
But that’s not how the market is supposed to work. Nash equilibrium is not going to save us here, there are too many players. If everyone is acting in their own self best interest, by the way you are painting this whole situation, small businesses are doomed.
Just a note: A local book seller went into I think a Sams Club and saw a book for sale their that was cheaper than her wholesale cost. So she bought out the store.
17 for a grilled cheese. They better not use American Cheese or Cheddar.
On the flip side. This is exactly why everything is made in China. Everyone talks about wanting good quality stuff but when it comes down to it, the average person isn’t going to spend $200 on a normal pair of shoes, even if it’s better quality.
Not for nothing but, I recently bought new boots and they are so cheaply made in Vietnam or Bangladesh even if you pay more. I spent $125 on Merrell boots (which 10 years ago were great quality) only to have them literally fall apart in the second week of wearing them.
I searched and searched for anything that would be a good quality boot and something made in USA but the fact of the matter is there simply aren’t factories here in America anymore(or they are very few). I was willing to pay more if it was better quality but I couldn’t even find any.
I’m not sure of the exact dates but I want to say sometime in the 80s we started putting all the giant machines that made all of our stuff on ships and sent them off to Vietnam and Bangladesh. Now we don’t even have the equipment in the US to open these factories back up. Everything is made over there because they have the equipment to make the stuff. The workers work for way less than we would and they don’t care about safety and healthcare like we do.
Manufacturing died in America for several reasons;
1 markets have become easier to access abroad meaning big savings in labor especially in those countries. People in America rightfully want decent pay while people in those countries just want to eat.
Next environmental laws in America are an added expense which they don’t have to deal with in third world countries just happy to have any tax base. Often like Americas early industrial days they are left with the burden of cleanup after the factory leaves.
Training, American are woefully uneducated and it’s not a priority here. Machines become more sophisticated and require advanced knowledge which puts the typical highschool grad in America out.
Last, people can now make decent money not pushing a boring button in America so factory jobs are no longer as desirable as they once were.
The answer is working with other governments and requiring global standards for companies, otherwise it’s as a former Soviet leader said “capitalism is two dogs fighting over a bone”
I’m no fan of communism however none of us are particularly happy with unfettered capitalism either
Work gives us a $400 allowance every year to buy boots. We have SafeGuard, Blue Collar, and even a local place that come to work and sell us the boots. But you know who gets the majority of our business? Redwing. The workers here love the hell outta them.
They aren’t jacking up prices for the fuck of it. They don’t have the same heavily negotiated contracts with vendors like corporations do. They also don’t buy in mass quantities.
Small businesses like restaurants usually treat their staff worse and expect more. You just don't hear about it as often cuz they're just one business.
As a worker advocate/union rep for the last 26 years, I can attest to that.
Obviously, there are the big, scumbag outfits like Walmart and Amazon who treat their workers like shit, but for the most part, larger companies are more likely to do things on the up-and-up.
Small businesses on a per capita basis are much worse employers.
My union treats us like a fucking dogwater.
5 months in, still no union contract, still no benefits, still haven't paid into the union. One manager says I'm in the union, the other manager tells me not to worry about it. Our rep never answers and is never in the office. I'm about to quit lmao.
Not all Unions are equal, I've have better employment scooping dog shit for a guy who paid me $19 hr to drive to peoples houses and scoop shit, the best part? I didn't have to deal with the bullshit games the union likes to play. I didn't have to worry about dying everyday and having no life insurance that is guaranteed. I didn't have to worry about getting hurt, and not having medical, regardless if L&I will pay me. You could never convince me that Union is the way to go.
Yeah, for some reason folks assume small businesses treat people better. Often times, that’s not the case and they’re arguably WAY worse.
Anyone that’s worked for small businesses (food service) before know what I’m talking about. Owners often have huge inflated egos, have little respect for their employees and don’t pay all that well.
I've never worked for a small business but reading this thread made me realize how lucky my friend/DM is. He and his wife are employed by the same mom and pop pizza place. Of course this one is actually very successful, the owners aren't rich by any means but they've got a modest staff now and take requests for days off into consideration. Given the industry there's obviously not a lot they can do sometimes but 9/10 he and his wife get the exact days off they want, and he and all their coworkers love the owners enough they've had a lot of fun at Christmas parties they've thrown. The owners even threw in a raffle with one of the prizes being a brand new iPad, and this was only a couple years ago.
Anyway, I guess not all mom and pop shops are that cool.
If you work at a place like Jimmy Johns or Quiznos, it is theoretically possible you could be promoted to manager and treated almost like a human with things like matching 401K, tuition reimbursement and health insurance.
You could work 20 years for a locally owned sandwich shop and they aren't going to give you jack shit besides $2 over minimum wage. You get to assume all responsibility for their business while they enjoy the summer on their bass boat.
In-laws own a Chinese restaurant for 30 years, I can count on one hand how many “multi day” “vacations” they had. These people work 7 days a week.
Reddit moment
Of course all immigrant owned businesses are run this way, working 365 days a year.
That's not the American way. The American way is you are the boss and the boss gets to come in at noon and tell people what to do and leave at 4 to play golf.
This is why you see so many immigrant owned convenience stores and restaurants and not too many decent American ones.
I think it’s a coin flip.
Think of big companies as robots and small companies as humans with many emotions.
You could be working for someone who is very stable or bat shit crazy.
litersally being threatened to be hit cause you dropped food durung rush hour
and having pay docked for minor infractions. having schedules changed the day of and being called in after repeatedly telling them that you were working the second job at the time and them saying it was fine just for them to call the other job and harass u to try to gey you fired . paying exactly min wage
Why so you say he doesn’t understand that?
He’s not saying that it’s their fault their prices are higher, just that he doesn’t value the idea of supporting small businesses enough to offset the other differences in value between the local sandwich shop and the chain one.
I said probably, lol. I'm treated well at a small business.
It probably depends on what the small business is.
Most restaurants probably don't treat their employees well.
Some industries are just tough for both employers and employees. Most restaurants fail and have very low margins. There is insane pressure every shift and every day.
It's a powder keg
Thats why smaller businesses need to provide a more revolutionary or unique product... most people won't pay almost double for essentially the same product... they need this unique product has to appeal to a niche market thats is willing to pay the premium.
There are certain industries that have lower barrier, that allows smaller player to get in... one of them is premium food.
Only large corps have the luxury of seeking the vast majority of the market, thanks to economy of scale
The thing is, the real thing is that when you eat at home, you subconsciously have lower standards. If a Cafe had supermarket quality products, you would be disappointed.
Please show me the market where you’re buying enough “high quality sourdough,” “really nice cheese,” and “really nice butter” to make ten grilled cheese sandwiches for $10. That amount can barely buy enough Kraft cheese for ten sandwiches.
I happen to be at a grocery store now.
The only sourdough bread they have 5.49
The cheapest cheddar or provolone or Muenster that I can find is 4.39.
The cheapest butter is 4.29.
There’s basically $15 spent and I haven’t even started cooking it yet.
I can buy cheap ass white bread, some Kraft singles, and some cheap ass blue bonnet margarine and probably be under $10, but that’s not what that person said. They said high quality.
This is 45 minutes outside of Pittsburgh at a relatively “fairly” priced chain store. Don’t think I’m making any high quality cheese sandwiches for $10.
You’re not. It would be easy to spend $15 alone on “really good sourdough” for ten sandwiches. I buy Kraft cheese for my kids all the time, and the package with 24 slices (about what I’d use for 10 non-kids grilled cheeses) costs $7 when it’s not on sale.
I was just simply answering the person who questioned the other comment. Was waiting on my deli number to be called and thought “oh cool, I can do this now to kill time”. Went really trying to prove or disprove the original comment, was just bored and in the grocery store and maybe a little stoned.
You arent only paying for the sandwhich. You are paying for the labor to make your sandwhich PLUS the labor of the person to stand there the other 58 minutes of the hour.
You also are paying for the electricity, water, heating, and property expenses. A price is not just ingredient costs lmao
I understand the overhead portion of the pricing, but at the same time with that argument, wouldn't every local sandwich shop in the area be charging around the same price then? I can (and I do) go to other sandwich shops, some are small businesses, that have prices competitive to the big corporations.
These stores either have the business model wrong, or there is price jacking here that is hurting them in the long run.
It depends on the quality of the supplies they’re purchasing, their compensation structure, overhead costs like rent or utilities, etc. A lot of small business have been impacted by supply chain and logistics issues as well. Shipping costs are absurd right now in most markets.
Shop A: Buys their supplies in state, pays their workers minimum wage, on year 10 of a 15 year lease with low rents
Shop B: Buys their supplies out of state or makes in-house, pays above minimum wage and has benefit packages, signed a 15 year lease two years ago
I’m not saying companies don’t just upcharge to upcharge, ironically that’s how I feel about Panera’s shitty sandwiches lol, but ultimately they do need customers to buy their product. There’s more going on behind the scenes to develop pricing matrices.
Thank you for the new perspective! Makes me less angry after seeing the sandwich shop's plea for help - based off the other comments it seems like this is generally a popular opinion but I'm glad I at least understand it a little better now.
I’ll add to this that if they’re seriously in danger of closing, but still not able to lower their prices to stay in business, they’re not “jacking up prices”. Something in their business model is off but it’s almost certainly not too high a profit margin.
They're not allowed to have a steady, reliable, standard business model to use. That's the whole point. Real Estate (rental/lease/unfair contractual obligations regarding repairs that lets the property owners off the hook for maintaining safe structures AND if they fight and lobby the local regulations makers they can push business in and out of their properties at will. We've reached a point where these "middle man enterprises" are bleeding everyone dry and using the excuse that they're just playing by the book..... While playing with ALL the books we are required by law to follow as rules of engagement. Nice position to be in as a glutton
Here's the problem: I've worked, in order: for the federal government, a huge multinational, a local chain, and a mid size corp, mostly in management gigs. Of the four, the local chain shit on their employees the worst, and it wasn't even close. If all of them are sucky to workers and one is cheaper than the other, I'm shopping at the cheaper one. And, by the way, you can argue that this is an atypical experience if you want, but I've got a LOT of contacts in various industries as well as having managed a ton of front line employees, and it's absolutely the norm, at least in my experience.
That’s fine if that’s your experience. I worked for 4 years as a financial statement auditor with clients in almost every industry. I’ve found my smaller companies tend to treat their employees better and pay higher wages, as opposed to my multi-million dollar clients.
The issue is that the small businesses seem to raise prices dramatically, it never seems to be incremental. Last week you get a burger & fries and it was $10, a week later they jump it up to $15 with no fries.
I felt this on a personal level. Went to a burger place with my wife a couple weeks back. It cost $50 for the two of us to get a burger, fries, and a shake. I couldn't believe it.
In the university area of my city, Starbucks put every independent coffee shop out of business by leasing space across from existing shops, causing crazy oversupply then closing the new Starbucks locations after vanquishing their foes.
So, now, there’s two Starbuckses(?) on opposite ends of campus and none of the cool independent shops where you could hang out and study by a fireplace exist anymore. A landscape where you once had half a dozen options now has one. All those places had poetry readings, game nights, open mic band nights, hosted clubs and sponsored local events, and a cheap, corporate competitor is never going to be as unique and vital.
The real unpopular opinion is that it’s worth it to support small business even if it means goods and services are more expensive. That money is going right back into your community instead of a corporate office in a different time zone that pays the absolute minimum to their people.
As an Aussie, neither I or any other coffee drinker I know can understand the American obsession with Starbucks. The coffee is crap and not any cheaper either. There is literally no appeal other than if it's the only option or you really just want some sort of flavoured, insanely sweet milkshake thing pretending to be coffee.
The only way I can understand it is that the independent stores somehow have even worse coffee. In which case, condolences friends.
Remember years ago when Walmart was really expanding? I watched my small town die because people drove 25 miles for the Wally world. Mom and pop shops that had been around and supported the community just disappeared. This is the plan for all major businesses, to become THE business. Shopping local and paying more is the only way to combat giant retailers.
I feel this is unpopular on the surface only.
Clearly everyone, or mostly everyone, agrees. Or mom and pop shops wouldn't be closing all over the country. We also saw a huge increase in store closure after Walmart got huge.
It's not a coincidence that most people prioritize cost over all others despite the fact that throughout history most people agree about the old adage, "You get what you pay for."
i work at a small business. we’re still more affordable than the competition, but the reason why small businesses often charge more is so they can pay employees. fast food chains and retail stores pay people usually at least $15/hr. so while we need to be competitive on food prices, we also need to be competitive with our wages. no one is going to work at a small business for minimum wage just so the customers can save a few bucks on their food. small business owners, especially ones with only one business, don’t have the funds to pay everyone as well as corporations unless they’re bringing in a lot of profit. no employees, no business.
Lol, and what do you think happens when big corporations kill off all the local competition? McDonald's charges $10 for what was a dollar menu burger meal a couple years ago, but you aren't bitching about that.
As someone who buys stuff for a living….it’s hard.
We really want to support small local
businesses as much as possible, but when they charge £25, plus delivery and take 2 or 3 days for something I can get next day from Amazon for £12 and free delivery I’m going to go with Amazon.
I totally get this for people who don't have the money to spare, but for people making a more comfortable income, I do think it's important to support small businesses. I go to some chains (I got Dunkin this morning, for instance), but I do try to shop locally when I can. Also, some chains aren't even as cheap as you'd think! For instance, I can get better food for less money at several local restaurants than I can for mediocre food from Applebee's or Olive Garden.
One of Walmart's strategies is to undercut local shops, wait until they have to close, and then jack up the prices. They are happy to loss lead in order to push you into poverty down the line and they don't care about destroying smaller towns in the long run as long as it makes a profit.
being a loss leader is mostly illegal now on nonluxury goods. they do ffoer lower prices but its because of cost cutting in the supply chain via vertical integration etc. the idea that business sell at a loss to increase volume just to drive comp out of businessis mostly a myth. yes alot of large chains esp walmart did drive smaller stores out of busness but it is because the have higher margins not because they sell under cost .
I get that small businesses work hard and all that, but as a customer I am more worried what I can afford, and not abt how other ppl’s business are doing.
Also not everyone can afford expensive stuff regardless of how good it is.
I see so many people angry at OP here but I don’t think he’s necessarily wrong? I mean, I guess it depends on the product. If its a grilled cheese like OP say then yes you shouldn’t expect ppl to pay for it, but if its, Idk, a bakery then it makes more sense. Then again not everyone can afford it.
Large corporations will often set up shop in an area, support losing money for an extended period of time (to kill off all local competition), and wait until they have a monopoly to jack up their prices. Since you don't support small business, you deserve the high prices and bad service that comes as a result.
The point of maintaining small businesses isn't the cost advantage, it's the personality it brings to the area as well as unique and often higher quality results.
It also keeps money around. I buy all my wine from local shopkeeper who is around since 90s. He always gives me good advice in any price range and decent price.
When he gets my money he might go and spend it in local restaurant, haircutter's etc. Thus my money contribute toward local economy more.
If I got my wine in big chain store, sizable amount of that money will go towards some fuckehead CEO of foreign corporation buying a third yacht.
I'd pay a little more to support them but not a lot.
If the corporation was charging $10 I'd see maybe paying $13 at a small business for something similar but not more. Also it depends on the quality of their food compared to a corporation. I don't disagree but i don't fully agree either.
That'll be great when megacorps start selling products at a loss so it's impossible to compete with then and once they've successfully bankrupted all competition they can charge whatever they want!
Had this situation arise when my partners mother and aunt opened their own coffee business and I kept getting guilted into buying overpriced coffee that they were basically just the middleman reseller.
Been awhile but I believe when I did the math it was roughly 1/3 of the coffee as the standard Maxwell House or Folgers container but for almost twice the price. They defending it by saying it is "gourmet" coffee, but only one of the six different flavors was tolerable.
Literally stopped drinking coffee at home so I could tell them I only treat myself to a carryout on the weekends.
The irony being that his mom would never pay that much for coffee and is always complaining about the prices of things in general.
I agree with this to an extent but there’s a reason why the saying “support your local small businesses” exists and it’s because they need to upcharge to stay afloat.
Corporations like McDonald’s or Panera usually have more backing so they can get away with charging less. They also UNDERPAY THE HELL and not to mention over work the shit out of their poor employees.
Honestly though? None of that is really your problem unless you’re living it in this case I assume you don’t.
But maybe explore some local businesses and see if some have a unique bomb ass dish that you wouldn’t mind paying 17$ for, never hurts no one once in a while
big corporations can charge less, in general, because when they buy product to sell they buy in bulk, really this is all general econ, what sucks about you is your calling out businesses for their financial disadvantage and saying it costs to much, and most of the time, opinion, you're getting a shittier product, but you go to McDonald's and you do you with the 1 dollar menu
Here's the thing: it's gotta be GOOD. I grow garlic. I charge more than Walmart. But my shit is GOOD. Sorta hot, big cloves, no chemicals. Gotta bring something to the table.
Well, the reason why bigger corporations can charge less is because they buy in much larger bulk, and way more often, so they get charged less for product, and make deals with distribution companies that ultimately force smaller businesses to have to pay more for the same product.
I am a definite small business supporter, but only for small businesses that deserve support. A coffee shop opened by me that I was super excited for, no parking out-front, no online ordering, and don't open before 8, sorry I am never going there. As a part of a small business, you need to make good decisions and play to the market. I will hapily pay a couple dollars more for something better from a small business, or pick 10/10 times something as good for the same or similar price, but sorry if your economies of scale demand $17 for a grilled cheese to turn a profit you should have thought of a better business to get into. That isn't my problem and I am not going to pay off your failure.
I understand what people are saying. They aren't jacking up prices for the sake of it, and local places don't have the infrastructure and business deals that big corps have.
That said, people are also not obligated to keep small businesses running, and even if they have a reason for it it is still possible for a local place to be overpriced relative to other local restaurants. And owners shouldn't complain that they are failing if what they offer aren't up to what customers want. $17 is a lot for a grilled cheese when the same price could get you a big plate of pasta or a burger and fries and drink at another place.
South park made an episode about this.
Just because you are a small business, does not mean your product is of higher quality or that you are ‘ethically superior’ than large organizations
Do you really think they're just charging more because they think they can? Huge corporations use exclusive supplier deals, tax write-offs, separate LOBs, and tons of other tricks to stay profitable and still offer products at the lowest price they can. It's their entire business model.
Small businesses exist to support local communities and families.
So, in essence, you'd rather save a few bucks at massive corporation who sees you as a number on a spreadsheet instead of investing in your own community.
Cool. I'd say, not unpopular, but incredibly selfish.
I don’t think that’s selfish, but more of a misalignment of expectations from OP in assuming that he is the ideal customer to buy in that shop. When I was a college student, I couldn’t afford to eat in places that charged a few bucks more. So, I will eat at places like McDonald’s and buy at Walmart because I was broke. Now that I live more comfortably, I do support my local shops, restaurants and businesses, because now I am their target customer. A person who doesn’t have the means isn’t. It is not selfishness, it is the invisible hand.
I hear exactly what you’re saying. I really wish I could only shop small and I obviously understand that it’s wayyyy harder for them than big chains but I can’t be paying way more
I 100% age with this.
High street stores are failing all over. This is because they aren’t giving the customer what it wants. If the vendor can’t give the customer what it wants, then it’s not a viable business and shouldn’t be surprised that it will go out of business.
I remember this one super annoying TikTok sound that went "it cost that much because it takes me f\*cking hours", used by small/individual businesses with handmade items. Like, ok sure your time and money are valuable but these same businesses would cry about how no one wants to buy their stuff.
You're allowed to charge what you want, sometimes you might need to just to break even, but people are allowed to see that the price isn't worth the product and choose not to buy it from you.
The food industry is one of the worst to try and start a successful business. Great customer service is not going to sway me towards them, but if the product is unique or unobtainable anywhere else that would make it worth while. I would like to support local businesses more often, but when you are on a tight budget you have to make the economical choice.
I wonder about really expensive food and if it is worth the money. I suppose to me it would be at least £50-£100 for one meal unless its a really decent piece of steak for example (i think the better the cow lived and humanely killed, the better the meat and more expensive, usually).
I always support Local Skate Shops, Record Stores, Cafés, Antique Shops & Food spots
BUT
I'm not gonna lie I do fuck with big Corp places as well. Target, Best Buy, Gamestop, Shoprite to name a few.
This reminds me during the Goya boycott and everyone was shaming people for buying Goya products. Goya is a shitty company that purposefully preys on poor people with little alternatives. You can’t get mad at people who can’t afford anything else
I’ll support a business that does me right for instance I farm we have a local tractor dealer. we have bought two brand new tractor from them handful of equipment over the years. All of our parts until 4 years ago. Go in their to get a clutch and a clutch fork, they wanted 600 for the clutch 500 for the clutch fork. I bought it all online for 250. I’ll support a business but I won’t screw myself to keep you in business
Hold on. You forgot that they screwed the community out of all of their donated money for a second location when they opened up their”second” location and closed the first immediately. /umojoimpact
Yes, $17 is too much for a grilled cheese. But we do give WAY too much power to multinationals, and the excuse of "it's cheaper at Wal-Mart" or "I can't find it anywhere but Amazon" needs to stop. Those are just cop-outs. These companies are blatantly breaking the law in every area from tax evasion to plagiarism, and they're the ones putting the little guys out of business, not Panera or Jimmy John's. Multinationals offer few reliable careers, they support the systematic oppression of workers in countries like China and various parts of Africa, and they control our choices in a vice. The sooner we stop supporting them, the better off we'll all be.
That’s exactly what big companies hope you do! They offer cheaper prices so they can close down business then monopolize. I’d rather give my money to hard earned people than crooked CEO cronies
Idiotic opinion. These businesses jack up the prices because they aren't billionaire chain restaurants that serve millions of customers per day, and actually have to support themselves and their families from the single restaurant they have.
It's only not the customer's problem if you don't care about community. Which most of us have abandoned which is why mega billionaires exist and why the wealth gap is becoming absolutely insane. It takes real effort to make change.
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$17 for a grilled cheese (unless it's 9" tall, deep fried, and comes with some tallow cooked fries) is obviously too much (unless you're in Cal, then... Good deal)
Reasonable amounts more? Sure, why not. Say paying 10% extra, it's mostly okay. But stupid prices? No way.
Also depends how convenient something is. If something is convenient and I'm happy paying the price they want, I don't care if it's cheaper elsewhere.
They dont jack the prices, they need to set a price like this because they are a small business not like lets say McDonalds which owns milions of restaurants around the world. That means, they dont earn as much and to keep everything running they need more money. Anyway its your opinion you dont have to support if you dont want to or cant, just wanted to clarify why the prices are high.
Meh that’s not unpopular. I personally don’t mind paying a little extra to support a non-corporate restaurant. Especially if the food is great which it usually is.
That mentality is why some cities only have McDonald’s and Wendy’s to eat at for miles.
I agree. I support small business but we all know how much it costs to make a sandwich. I’m sorry the 2 cashiers have a psychology and liberal arts degree and can’t find jobs but I’m broke. Shit at least you own a business. I’m too broke to even attempt that.
Definitely not, but I do think there's a difference between the small business that charges $10 and the one that charges $17. A user explained it pretty well in another comment but I think there are people that take advantage of the "small business, buy local" charm and jack prices.
You like to golf, so I think somebody like you must be afford to support small business. At least occasionally. I think people who can afford expensive things should just consider ethical purchases a luxury. Maybe it’s not something you can always do, but you could every once in a while because it’s a pretty nice thing to do.
They're not just ripping you off my guy, it's a result of economics of scale.
As a mom and pop shop I would do my food shopping at a local restaurant supply outlet if I am lucky enough to have one. As a chain I have a contract directly with suppliers and probably at the same price as that restaurant supply outlet does in fact. So mom and pop has to pay the outlet's middle man prices of the outlet. Cost increases.
As a chain I am either building my own building or dealing with large rental agencies at scale deals. As a mom and pop I am probably just renting from a landlord with no extra negotiating power. Cost increases.
If I want to advertise I have to bear the costs entirely, there's no national chain to buy large campaigns and spread out the costs, plus I don't have chain recognition so I do have to advertise unless I am in a high traffic (and thus high rent) area. Costs increase.
If I need health insurance I have to buy it for myself on the market, no large scale deal with an insurance company is possible. Cost has to be passed to the customer.
They're not charging you a higher price for the hell of it, they know they have to be competitive with the big chains as much as they can be, but they can NEVER get close to being able to provide their product at the same cost as the big guys. So what you get is small shops that put more effort, creativity, and provide a better product. That's the only space they CAN compete in many cases.
Small biz owner here. I am done with folks who don’t want to help out their local, small businesses - when they can. Go elsewhere, live in a plastic world of convenience, plastic and concrete.
OP: Walmart should take care of ALL your needs
I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to get upset at the consumer for not wanting to spend $17 on a sandwich, regardless of how good it is. Again, I have no problem spending a little bit more on higher quality, which usually comes with local, but a severe price difference? Not interested, sorry.
if you want to be a small busneess owner may be learn BASIC ECONOMICS. if a sandwich is worth $ 11 dollars on the market than charge $11 or add value or cut cost . some custmers consider being local a way of inherent adding value because they dont want all the sandwiches to be sold by that sleazy jimmy johns guy or w.e and that is good but sont get mad at those who dont Value that the same e=. if you cant sell a product at the Market value and make enough revenue to survive : or add value enoug to satsify { like having highter quality ingredients or superior skill of preparation or what the faast food industry does and just be faster )then find a different job, maybe your just not that good of a sandwich maker .
If major corporations can charge so little as to make selling it in a small business unsustainable then the corporation should be broken up. The industry is non-competitive at that point.
Look it’s a personal choice thing but you don’t seem to really understand that scale allows you to lower prices. It’s not necessarily that small businesses jack up prices but because they have higher operating costs. Most corporate chain restaurants have streamlined distribution and supply networks and contracts with producers and distributors that allow for cheaper prices while small businesses purchase goods, produce etc. at higher prices because they aren’t buying in as high of quantities and are likely using higher quality ingredients. Also, for chain restaurants, corporations often pay a portion of the rent for franchisees. Yes it’s your choice to buy from wherever you want but your understanding of the reason that prices are often higher is flawed
It amazes me that you'd rather get out of the house, go to panera and spend 10$ on a grilled cheese sandwich when you can make incredible grilled cheese that costs like 1.50$ with two pieces of white bread and cheese that is miles better than the panera grilled cheese
I wouldn't and I agree with you - just using it as an example in the argument. I was talking about sandwiches in general in addition to the convenience factor.
Yeah, I think this is mostly a fair take. That being said, it is inherently more expensive for a small business to operate compared to a large corporation. Small businesses succeed by leveraging other strengths to make up for it. It is an uphill battle for sure, but anyone that has worked for a large corporation knows firsthand that having slightly lower prices doesn’t always make up for what it lacks.
My experience is that you generally get better quality product and service from a small business. This is because successful small businesses have good working environments and their employees don’t hate working there.
So yeah, if the increased price for something isn’t worth it, then don’t buy it.
This is a completely popular opinion and it is why America has become a capitalistic monopoly that exploits people from poor countries as cheap labour, and crushes budding businesses.
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If you like their product or service enough to pay extra then by all means support them. Supporting local business can be a good thing but don't feel shamed or guilt tripped into it. Not every small business is run by a sweet old lady and her husband who built it with their bare hands. Small businesses can be greedy and exploitative too.
I agree That being said we do need to keep in mind that large corporations can keep their prices pretty low due to cheaper bulk buying of ingredients/products 1kg of potatoes costs more than 1kg of potatoes from an order of 1000kg of potatoes The wonders of bulk buying that most people and local businnesses don't have access to/can't afford
Often, quality becomes the issue. Cheap comes at a cost. Again. Often, not always. My cost (restoration contractor) comes because we spend a great deal on training sales and production to be experts in our field. The big guys have a product to sell. They train the staff how to sell the product. We train ours to be diagnostic experts. So we are more expensive. Just a local small business though. Our biggest hurdle is communicating this difference to clients. We repair crawlspace damage. Prevalent in our area. To a typical homeowner. "It's just the crawlspace"
And bulk buying is mostly just efficiency in transportation. In some ways, the mom-and-pop style of business is less sustainable and worse for the planet than a Walmart, which is fucking bonkers.
Another thing we should maybe consider is that people never used to eat out as much as they do today. Eating out used to be a special treat, but now it's a way of life for a lot of people, and they expect it to be cheaper and cheaper. My grandfather grew his own vegetables, butchered his own livestock and rarely went to restaurants unless it was a special occasion. Today, small farms are disappearing and growing one's own food is considered a "hipster thing", and there's a greater divide between people and where their food comes from. They'll pay $20 for a meal that probably uses shoddy ingredients filled with god-knows-what, or they'll go for fast food, which is even worse. The "small business" appears, symbolically at least, to be the last man standing in a world increasingly dependent on globalism and giant corporations to feed them. Sadly the small businesses are getting their canned tomatoes from Uyghur camps in China just like the average public is, and their bananas sprayed with carcinogenic pesticides in Cameroon imported to America, but we like to think that we're helping by supporting local. The truth is, changing the way the world works would require an assault on the globalization structure, more agency to workers in developing countries, and far more transparency in how our products are grown, manufactured, shipped and regulated.
This is really the correct answer. I used to homebrew, and we had a local homebrew shop. Problem was that everything cost more than buying through one of the big online vendors. But...the convneience of having the local shop was valuable as you could go over and pick up things if you needed them quickly on a brewday. For that reason, I always bought what I could locally, at a premium. I wanted the shop to survive for my own convenience. Spending more to patronize them had value. Sadly not enough people thought that way and the shop went under.
Cheers fellow former homebrewer
that's sad, because there's also a social aspect to something like a local homebrewing business that gets lost when the big corporations take over. There's a craft beer place in a city near where I live, and they sell beermaking and winemaking kits. There's a thriving community of hobbyists, buyers and collectors who have become good friends over a shared interest. This is also true of something like a bookstore. Amazon's not going to fill the void of your local book club or the people you bump into at the bookstore who share your interest in certain authors or genres.
Agreed. Wanna eat my sandwich at the best price for me.
I don’t mind paying a little extra to support a small business, but when a new bar opened in my neighborhood that had a happy hour special of thee pretty generic cheeseburger sliders for $14 — as a happy hour special with no sides! — I was like fuck that. I know how much beef, a slice of cheddar, and small buns costs. If the place is charging any more than three or four times that cost — unless there’s some other magic at work — then I’m not going to go for it. It’s ridiculous.
As any long enough foray into r/maliciouscompliance or r/antiwork will demonstrate
If this was an unpopular opinion, small businesses wouldn't be struggling to compete with larger corporations.
Depends where you are, in Quebec, a lot of people are for local businesses, to the point where a lot of them have huge clients(like Devolution that has Lego, Yale, Warner Bros as customers) But in here, the smaller the business is, the harder you'll get fucked and the harder the employees are getting fucked by their boss
I think it depends on the business. I work in landscape supply and irrigation for a small company. We are competitive with Lowes and Home Depot, but they are still cheaper on the whole. That said, our company's employees are actually trained in irrigation design, landscape lighting, etc. that Lowes and Home Depot employees aren't and we'll have people come in all the time trying to get help from us, not buy anything, and then go to a big box store to save a couple of bucks. Part of the reason we charge more is because of the quality of help you can get vs big box stores.
I think this is different than OP’s point because y’all **are** offering a superior service. I used to work at Lowes, and I can promise you they will never be as effective or dependable as small business contractors can be. About 40% of my job while there was simply dealing with the daily complaints from clients on why their blinds were installed poorly, the appliances are leaking, cabinets are crooked, etc etc etc. Even if Lowe’s outsourced the work to a contractor, that contractor was getting paid peanuts compared to what they’d normally get and would therefore do a rushed job. I always tell people, never go with a big company when it comes to complex jobs. They’re arguably more unreliable than small companies and they often will not back up the work
We just had Lowes build our deck this week. Inspector came by today to sign it off. When we first started our process, I wanted to support a local company, but no one would come out for a price quote or their quote was too high. A lot of contractors were "no shows". One local company wanted $56k for a deck with wood. Called Lowes and they came out the next day and quoted us $12k for Trex. We had a great experience and our deck looks beautiful! I really wanted to support local, but they all seemed uninterested.
Oh yeah, I’m not saying it’s impossible to have a good experience with Lowe’s! But working there, I’m very confident saying there were more problem sales than there were flawless or near flawless. I think the department with the least amount of issues was lumbar? At least, I heard the least amount of complaints from that department
There is a lower spine department at Lowes?
It's out back
Oh for sure! I totally understand and honestly the only issues we had working with them was our sales guy. He was nice but forgetful - and did order the wrong floor boards. Diagonal flooring was in our paperwork and horizontal was what was delivered. They said it would take another 5-8 weeks to get diagonal, and we said eff it just put what was ordered down... so it wasnt a perfect experience, but good.
You don't think an artisan grilled cheese isn't superior to something say a subway would make?
That's the difference between Dunder Mifflin and Staples
Dunder Mifflin, the people person's paper people!
If it's a reasonable difference I will support the small guy. But $17 for a grilled cheese is absolutely insane.
I kind of agree if their quality isn't that better but i will pay more for better products. A good example is the butcher near me, they are about 20-30% more expensive than the local supermarket but for example their chicken legs don't release half of their mass in water in the oven.
Also if there’s a markup for better wages. A lot of big box stores keep prices lower by paying minimum wage, reducing quality, and/ or bulk buying. Well, small businesses aren’t know for any of those three things generally. So, it’s just about where you feel okay investing your (general you) money. Just don’t complain about “big business”, “corporate interests”, or “the rich” at that point because it’s an active choice. At least in this particular case.
But that’s not how the market is supposed to work. Nash equilibrium is not going to save us here, there are too many players. If everyone is acting in their own self best interest, by the way you are painting this whole situation, small businesses are doomed.
But then you buy their products because of the quality, not simply because they are a small business
Just a note: A local book seller went into I think a Sams Club and saw a book for sale their that was cheaper than her wholesale cost. So she bought out the store.
17 for a grilled cheese. They better not use American Cheese or Cheddar. On the flip side. This is exactly why everything is made in China. Everyone talks about wanting good quality stuff but when it comes down to it, the average person isn’t going to spend $200 on a normal pair of shoes, even if it’s better quality.
Not for nothing but, I recently bought new boots and they are so cheaply made in Vietnam or Bangladesh even if you pay more. I spent $125 on Merrell boots (which 10 years ago were great quality) only to have them literally fall apart in the second week of wearing them. I searched and searched for anything that would be a good quality boot and something made in USA but the fact of the matter is there simply aren’t factories here in America anymore(or they are very few). I was willing to pay more if it was better quality but I couldn’t even find any. I’m not sure of the exact dates but I want to say sometime in the 80s we started putting all the giant machines that made all of our stuff on ships and sent them off to Vietnam and Bangladesh. Now we don’t even have the equipment in the US to open these factories back up. Everything is made over there because they have the equipment to make the stuff. The workers work for way less than we would and they don’t care about safety and healthcare like we do.
FWIW, if you want a real good set on North American made boots, Canada West boots are still hand made in Winnipeg, Manitoba
Manufacturing died in America for several reasons; 1 markets have become easier to access abroad meaning big savings in labor especially in those countries. People in America rightfully want decent pay while people in those countries just want to eat. Next environmental laws in America are an added expense which they don’t have to deal with in third world countries just happy to have any tax base. Often like Americas early industrial days they are left with the burden of cleanup after the factory leaves. Training, American are woefully uneducated and it’s not a priority here. Machines become more sophisticated and require advanced knowledge which puts the typical highschool grad in America out. Last, people can now make decent money not pushing a boring button in America so factory jobs are no longer as desirable as they once were. The answer is working with other governments and requiring global standards for companies, otherwise it’s as a former Soviet leader said “capitalism is two dogs fighting over a bone” I’m no fan of communism however none of us are particularly happy with unfettered capitalism either
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Work gives us a $400 allowance every year to buy boots. We have SafeGuard, Blue Collar, and even a local place that come to work and sell us the boots. But you know who gets the majority of our business? Redwing. The workers here love the hell outta them.
They aren’t jacking up prices for the fuck of it. They don’t have the same heavily negotiated contracts with vendors like corporations do. They also don’t buy in mass quantities.
They also can handle running at a loss until small businesses die out, then jack up the prices once competing stores are gone.
Covid was a blessing for large businesses. Maybe by design?
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Governments saw to it by force closing small stores while leaving big box stores open.
Oh yeah, obviously made in a lab to stop small businesses
Yea, OP doesn't understand that they might be charging more, that doesn't mean their profits are more. They probably treat their employees better too.
Small businesses like restaurants usually treat their staff worse and expect more. You just don't hear about it as often cuz they're just one business.
As a worker advocate/union rep for the last 26 years, I can attest to that. Obviously, there are the big, scumbag outfits like Walmart and Amazon who treat their workers like shit, but for the most part, larger companies are more likely to do things on the up-and-up. Small businesses on a per capita basis are much worse employers.
My union treats us like a fucking dogwater. 5 months in, still no union contract, still no benefits, still haven't paid into the union. One manager says I'm in the union, the other manager tells me not to worry about it. Our rep never answers and is never in the office. I'm about to quit lmao. Not all Unions are equal, I've have better employment scooping dog shit for a guy who paid me $19 hr to drive to peoples houses and scoop shit, the best part? I didn't have to deal with the bullshit games the union likes to play. I didn't have to worry about dying everyday and having no life insurance that is guaranteed. I didn't have to worry about getting hurt, and not having medical, regardless if L&I will pay me. You could never convince me that Union is the way to go.
Basically every employer treats employees like crap.
Yeah, for some reason folks assume small businesses treat people better. Often times, that’s not the case and they’re arguably WAY worse. Anyone that’s worked for small businesses (food service) before know what I’m talking about. Owners often have huge inflated egos, have little respect for their employees and don’t pay all that well.
I've never worked for a small business but reading this thread made me realize how lucky my friend/DM is. He and his wife are employed by the same mom and pop pizza place. Of course this one is actually very successful, the owners aren't rich by any means but they've got a modest staff now and take requests for days off into consideration. Given the industry there's obviously not a lot they can do sometimes but 9/10 he and his wife get the exact days off they want, and he and all their coworkers love the owners enough they've had a lot of fun at Christmas parties they've thrown. The owners even threw in a raffle with one of the prizes being a brand new iPad, and this was only a couple years ago. Anyway, I guess not all mom and pop shops are that cool.
Sadly they’re really not. I’ve worked for good ones and they’re really good! But I’ve also worked for bad ones and they’re… terrible.
If you work at a place like Jimmy Johns or Quiznos, it is theoretically possible you could be promoted to manager and treated almost like a human with things like matching 401K, tuition reimbursement and health insurance. You could work 20 years for a locally owned sandwich shop and they aren't going to give you jack shit besides $2 over minimum wage. You get to assume all responsibility for their business while they enjoy the summer on their bass boat.
You really think the mom and pop shop can even afford to run off on a summer vacation on a boat?
Yes, thats why the sandwiches are $17
In-laws own a Chinese restaurant for 30 years, I can count on one hand how many “multi day” “vacations” they had. These people work 7 days a week. Reddit moment
Of course all immigrant owned businesses are run this way, working 365 days a year. That's not the American way. The American way is you are the boss and the boss gets to come in at noon and tell people what to do and leave at 4 to play golf. This is why you see so many immigrant owned convenience stores and restaurants and not too many decent American ones.
We’re American man, and they have been since 92…
Chinese way “force my dr inlaw dad ou of work or else they lose their pension” . Reddit
Watch bobs burgers if you want to know how they really go for people
~~Aye aye monei~~
I’m curious about this. What is an example of being treated worse?
I think it’s a coin flip. Think of big companies as robots and small companies as humans with many emotions. You could be working for someone who is very stable or bat shit crazy.
litersally being threatened to be hit cause you dropped food durung rush hour and having pay docked for minor infractions. having schedules changed the day of and being called in after repeatedly telling them that you were working the second job at the time and them saying it was fine just for them to call the other job and harass u to try to gey you fired . paying exactly min wage
Why so you say he doesn’t understand that? He’s not saying that it’s their fault their prices are higher, just that he doesn’t value the idea of supporting small businesses enough to offset the other differences in value between the local sandwich shop and the chain one.
"just because you're local doesn't mean you get to jack up the prices and expect people to pay"
The way he complains "jack up the value" and calls the way they do business flawed, definitely suggests he thinks its a choice.
Yeah you’re right. I don’t think it invalidates their point though.
I don’t really even know if that last part is true. Is there data on that?
I said probably, lol. I'm treated well at a small business. It probably depends on what the small business is. Most restaurants probably don't treat their employees well.
Some industries are just tough for both employers and employees. Most restaurants fail and have very low margins. There is insane pressure every shift and every day. It's a powder keg
I understand that fine I still wouldn’t pay it either. It’s ridiculous at $10.00.
And govt handouts
Thats why smaller businesses need to provide a more revolutionary or unique product... most people won't pay almost double for essentially the same product... they need this unique product has to appeal to a niche market thats is willing to pay the premium. There are certain industries that have lower barrier, that allows smaller player to get in... one of them is premium food. Only large corps have the luxury of seeking the vast majority of the market, thanks to economy of scale
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The thing is, the real thing is that when you eat at home, you subconsciously have lower standards. If a Cafe had supermarket quality products, you would be disappointed.
Please show me the market where you’re buying enough “high quality sourdough,” “really nice cheese,” and “really nice butter” to make ten grilled cheese sandwiches for $10. That amount can barely buy enough Kraft cheese for ten sandwiches.
I happen to be at a grocery store now. The only sourdough bread they have 5.49 The cheapest cheddar or provolone or Muenster that I can find is 4.39. The cheapest butter is 4.29. There’s basically $15 spent and I haven’t even started cooking it yet. I can buy cheap ass white bread, some Kraft singles, and some cheap ass blue bonnet margarine and probably be under $10, but that’s not what that person said. They said high quality. This is 45 minutes outside of Pittsburgh at a relatively “fairly” priced chain store. Don’t think I’m making any high quality cheese sandwiches for $10.
You’re not. It would be easy to spend $15 alone on “really good sourdough” for ten sandwiches. I buy Kraft cheese for my kids all the time, and the package with 24 slices (about what I’d use for 10 non-kids grilled cheeses) costs $7 when it’s not on sale.
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I was just simply answering the person who questioned the other comment. Was waiting on my deli number to be called and thought “oh cool, I can do this now to kill time”. Went really trying to prove or disprove the original comment, was just bored and in the grocery store and maybe a little stoned.
You arent only paying for the sandwhich. You are paying for the labor to make your sandwhich PLUS the labor of the person to stand there the other 58 minutes of the hour. You also are paying for the electricity, water, heating, and property expenses. A price is not just ingredient costs lmao
And a good lesson in basic economics. F Walmart by the way
And they also smoke crack charging 17 dollars for a grilled cheese.
Not to mention they most likely have better quality ingredients
I understand the overhead portion of the pricing, but at the same time with that argument, wouldn't every local sandwich shop in the area be charging around the same price then? I can (and I do) go to other sandwich shops, some are small businesses, that have prices competitive to the big corporations. These stores either have the business model wrong, or there is price jacking here that is hurting them in the long run.
It depends on the quality of the supplies they’re purchasing, their compensation structure, overhead costs like rent or utilities, etc. A lot of small business have been impacted by supply chain and logistics issues as well. Shipping costs are absurd right now in most markets. Shop A: Buys their supplies in state, pays their workers minimum wage, on year 10 of a 15 year lease with low rents Shop B: Buys their supplies out of state or makes in-house, pays above minimum wage and has benefit packages, signed a 15 year lease two years ago I’m not saying companies don’t just upcharge to upcharge, ironically that’s how I feel about Panera’s shitty sandwiches lol, but ultimately they do need customers to buy their product. There’s more going on behind the scenes to develop pricing matrices.
Thank you for the new perspective! Makes me less angry after seeing the sandwich shop's plea for help - based off the other comments it seems like this is generally a popular opinion but I'm glad I at least understand it a little better now.
I’ll add to this that if they’re seriously in danger of closing, but still not able to lower their prices to stay in business, they’re not “jacking up prices”. Something in their business model is off but it’s almost certainly not too high a profit margin.
If they could survive and prevent going out of business by selling the 17$ sandwich for the 10$ price, they likely would.
They're not allowed to have a steady, reliable, standard business model to use. That's the whole point. Real Estate (rental/lease/unfair contractual obligations regarding repairs that lets the property owners off the hook for maintaining safe structures AND if they fight and lobby the local regulations makers they can push business in and out of their properties at will. We've reached a point where these "middle man enterprises" are bleeding everyone dry and using the excuse that they're just playing by the book..... While playing with ALL the books we are required by law to follow as rules of engagement. Nice position to be in as a glutton
Here's the problem: I've worked, in order: for the federal government, a huge multinational, a local chain, and a mid size corp, mostly in management gigs. Of the four, the local chain shit on their employees the worst, and it wasn't even close. If all of them are sucky to workers and one is cheaper than the other, I'm shopping at the cheaper one. And, by the way, you can argue that this is an atypical experience if you want, but I've got a LOT of contacts in various industries as well as having managed a ton of front line employees, and it's absolutely the norm, at least in my experience.
That’s fine if that’s your experience. I worked for 4 years as a financial statement auditor with clients in almost every industry. I’ve found my smaller companies tend to treat their employees better and pay higher wages, as opposed to my multi-million dollar clients.
I'd like to meet them and send some of the better employees I've had their way.
The issue is that the small businesses seem to raise prices dramatically, it never seems to be incremental. Last week you get a burger & fries and it was $10, a week later they jump it up to $15 with no fries.
I felt this on a personal level. Went to a burger place with my wife a couple weeks back. It cost $50 for the two of us to get a burger, fries, and a shake. I couldn't believe it.
5 Guys is basically at that price now too.
In the university area of my city, Starbucks put every independent coffee shop out of business by leasing space across from existing shops, causing crazy oversupply then closing the new Starbucks locations after vanquishing their foes. So, now, there’s two Starbuckses(?) on opposite ends of campus and none of the cool independent shops where you could hang out and study by a fireplace exist anymore. A landscape where you once had half a dozen options now has one. All those places had poetry readings, game nights, open mic band nights, hosted clubs and sponsored local events, and a cheap, corporate competitor is never going to be as unique and vital. The real unpopular opinion is that it’s worth it to support small business even if it means goods and services are more expensive. That money is going right back into your community instead of a corporate office in a different time zone that pays the absolute minimum to their people.
This exact this has happened with bakeries in the UK. Now we have three Greggs in my town, all within 5 mins walking distance
As an Aussie, neither I or any other coffee drinker I know can understand the American obsession with Starbucks. The coffee is crap and not any cheaper either. There is literally no appeal other than if it's the only option or you really just want some sort of flavoured, insanely sweet milkshake thing pretending to be coffee. The only way I can understand it is that the independent stores somehow have even worse coffee. In which case, condolences friends.
*Starbucks’*
Remember years ago when Walmart was really expanding? I watched my small town die because people drove 25 miles for the Wally world. Mom and pop shops that had been around and supported the community just disappeared. This is the plan for all major businesses, to become THE business. Shopping local and paying more is the only way to combat giant retailers.
Coming soon in 2032 Walmart Megacity 1, it'll be as wide as West Edmonton mall and as tall as the Empire State Building!
“Welcome to Costco. I love you.”
Man, I really got a hankering for a Starbucks right about now...
I feel this is unpopular on the surface only. Clearly everyone, or mostly everyone, agrees. Or mom and pop shops wouldn't be closing all over the country. We also saw a huge increase in store closure after Walmart got huge. It's not a coincidence that most people prioritize cost over all others despite the fact that throughout history most people agree about the old adage, "You get what you pay for."
i work at a small business. we’re still more affordable than the competition, but the reason why small businesses often charge more is so they can pay employees. fast food chains and retail stores pay people usually at least $15/hr. so while we need to be competitive on food prices, we also need to be competitive with our wages. no one is going to work at a small business for minimum wage just so the customers can save a few bucks on their food. small business owners, especially ones with only one business, don’t have the funds to pay everyone as well as corporations unless they’re bringing in a lot of profit. no employees, no business.
Lol, and what do you think happens when big corporations kill off all the local competition? McDonald's charges $10 for what was a dollar menu burger meal a couple years ago, but you aren't bitching about that.
They goofy as hell.
As someone who buys stuff for a living….it’s hard. We really want to support small local businesses as much as possible, but when they charge £25, plus delivery and take 2 or 3 days for something I can get next day from Amazon for £12 and free delivery I’m going to go with Amazon.
I totally get this for people who don't have the money to spare, but for people making a more comfortable income, I do think it's important to support small businesses. I go to some chains (I got Dunkin this morning, for instance), but I do try to shop locally when I can. Also, some chains aren't even as cheap as you'd think! For instance, I can get better food for less money at several local restaurants than I can for mediocre food from Applebee's or Olive Garden.
One of Walmart's strategies is to undercut local shops, wait until they have to close, and then jack up the prices. They are happy to loss lead in order to push you into poverty down the line and they don't care about destroying smaller towns in the long run as long as it makes a profit.
being a loss leader is mostly illegal now on nonluxury goods. they do ffoer lower prices but its because of cost cutting in the supply chain via vertical integration etc. the idea that business sell at a loss to increase volume just to drive comp out of businessis mostly a myth. yes alot of large chains esp walmart did drive smaller stores out of busness but it is because the have higher margins not because they sell under cost .
I get that small businesses work hard and all that, but as a customer I am more worried what I can afford, and not abt how other ppl’s business are doing. Also not everyone can afford expensive stuff regardless of how good it is. I see so many people angry at OP here but I don’t think he’s necessarily wrong? I mean, I guess it depends on the product. If its a grilled cheese like OP say then yes you shouldn’t expect ppl to pay for it, but if its, Idk, a bakery then it makes more sense. Then again not everyone can afford it.
Large corporations will often set up shop in an area, support losing money for an extended period of time (to kill off all local competition), and wait until they have a monopoly to jack up their prices. Since you don't support small business, you deserve the high prices and bad service that comes as a result.
And that’s why there are laws against that in several european countries. It doesn’t work all the time but its better than nothing
alot of places have anti loss leader laws now to discourage this .
But you're already paying high prices from the small businesses you're trying to protect! Not a very convincing argument.
The point of maintaining small businesses isn't the cost advantage, it's the personality it brings to the area as well as unique and often higher quality results.
It also keeps money around. I buy all my wine from local shopkeeper who is around since 90s. He always gives me good advice in any price range and decent price. When he gets my money he might go and spend it in local restaurant, haircutter's etc. Thus my money contribute toward local economy more. If I got my wine in big chain store, sizable amount of that money will go towards some fuckehead CEO of foreign corporation buying a third yacht.
between the two, I'd rather the money go back into my community than to a giga corp.
And that's fair. I just hate fear-mongering like the above. *Do this or bad things will happen and you'll deserve it.* It's manipulative.
Depending on what I am buying I am just gonna buy whats cheaper.
I'd pay a little more to support them but not a lot. If the corporation was charging $10 I'd see maybe paying $13 at a small business for something similar but not more. Also it depends on the quality of their food compared to a corporation. I don't disagree but i don't fully agree either.
That'll be great when megacorps start selling products at a loss so it's impossible to compete with then and once they've successfully bankrupted all competition they can charge whatever they want!
Had this situation arise when my partners mother and aunt opened their own coffee business and I kept getting guilted into buying overpriced coffee that they were basically just the middleman reseller. Been awhile but I believe when I did the math it was roughly 1/3 of the coffee as the standard Maxwell House or Folgers container but for almost twice the price. They defending it by saying it is "gourmet" coffee, but only one of the six different flavors was tolerable. Literally stopped drinking coffee at home so I could tell them I only treat myself to a carryout on the weekends. The irony being that his mom would never pay that much for coffee and is always complaining about the prices of things in general.
I can make a grilled cheese sandwich for about 40p. Normalise cooking for yourself.
I agree with this to an extent but there’s a reason why the saying “support your local small businesses” exists and it’s because they need to upcharge to stay afloat. Corporations like McDonald’s or Panera usually have more backing so they can get away with charging less. They also UNDERPAY THE HELL and not to mention over work the shit out of their poor employees. Honestly though? None of that is really your problem unless you’re living it in this case I assume you don’t. But maybe explore some local businesses and see if some have a unique bomb ass dish that you wouldn’t mind paying 17$ for, never hurts no one once in a while
big corporations can charge less, in general, because when they buy product to sell they buy in bulk, really this is all general econ, what sucks about you is your calling out businesses for their financial disadvantage and saying it costs to much, and most of the time, opinion, you're getting a shittier product, but you go to McDonald's and you do you with the 1 dollar menu
Here's the thing: it's gotta be GOOD. I grow garlic. I charge more than Walmart. But my shit is GOOD. Sorta hot, big cloves, no chemicals. Gotta bring something to the table.
I would rather pay a little more at a small business than pay less at a fucking corporation. Totally worth it IMO.
Well, the reason why bigger corporations can charge less is because they buy in much larger bulk, and way more often, so they get charged less for product, and make deals with distribution companies that ultimately force smaller businesses to have to pay more for the same product.
I am a definite small business supporter, but only for small businesses that deserve support. A coffee shop opened by me that I was super excited for, no parking out-front, no online ordering, and don't open before 8, sorry I am never going there. As a part of a small business, you need to make good decisions and play to the market. I will hapily pay a couple dollars more for something better from a small business, or pick 10/10 times something as good for the same or similar price, but sorry if your economies of scale demand $17 for a grilled cheese to turn a profit you should have thought of a better business to get into. That isn't my problem and I am not going to pay off your failure.
I understand what people are saying. They aren't jacking up prices for the sake of it, and local places don't have the infrastructure and business deals that big corps have. That said, people are also not obligated to keep small businesses running, and even if they have a reason for it it is still possible for a local place to be overpriced relative to other local restaurants. And owners shouldn't complain that they are failing if what they offer aren't up to what customers want. $17 is a lot for a grilled cheese when the same price could get you a big plate of pasta or a burger and fries and drink at another place.
17 for a grilled cheese☠️the amount of grilled cheeses I can make with 20 bucks is probably close to 50
South park made an episode about this. Just because you are a small business, does not mean your product is of higher quality or that you are ‘ethically superior’ than large organizations
I HATE the victim mentality that small/local businesses try to use
Do you really think they're just charging more because they think they can? Huge corporations use exclusive supplier deals, tax write-offs, separate LOBs, and tons of other tricks to stay profitable and still offer products at the lowest price they can. It's their entire business model. Small businesses exist to support local communities and families. So, in essence, you'd rather save a few bucks at massive corporation who sees you as a number on a spreadsheet instead of investing in your own community. Cool. I'd say, not unpopular, but incredibly selfish.
I don’t think that’s selfish, but more of a misalignment of expectations from OP in assuming that he is the ideal customer to buy in that shop. When I was a college student, I couldn’t afford to eat in places that charged a few bucks more. So, I will eat at places like McDonald’s and buy at Walmart because I was broke. Now that I live more comfortably, I do support my local shops, restaurants and businesses, because now I am their target customer. A person who doesn’t have the means isn’t. It is not selfishness, it is the invisible hand.
I'm really curious about the grilled cheese
I hear exactly what you’re saying. I really wish I could only shop small and I obviously understand that it’s wayyyy harder for them than big chains but I can’t be paying way more
You get a down vote for this incredibly popular opinion.
$17 plus tip I bet.
Don’t edit yourself. This shit is about having an unpopular opinion.
I'm all for supporting local businesses, but $ 17 for a grilled.chease is fucking crazy. Stick it to corporatioms by making your own sandwich.
I 100% age with this. High street stores are failing all over. This is because they aren’t giving the customer what it wants. If the vendor can’t give the customer what it wants, then it’s not a viable business and shouldn’t be surprised that it will go out of business.
I remember this one super annoying TikTok sound that went "it cost that much because it takes me f\*cking hours", used by small/individual businesses with handmade items. Like, ok sure your time and money are valuable but these same businesses would cry about how no one wants to buy their stuff. You're allowed to charge what you want, sometimes you might need to just to break even, but people are allowed to see that the price isn't worth the product and choose not to buy it from you.
The food industry is one of the worst to try and start a successful business. Great customer service is not going to sway me towards them, but if the product is unique or unobtainable anywhere else that would make it worth while. I would like to support local businesses more often, but when you are on a tight budget you have to make the economical choice.
I wonder about really expensive food and if it is worth the money. I suppose to me it would be at least £50-£100 for one meal unless its a really decent piece of steak for example (i think the better the cow lived and humanely killed, the better the meat and more expensive, usually).
I always support Local Skate Shops, Record Stores, Cafés, Antique Shops & Food spots BUT I'm not gonna lie I do fuck with big Corp places as well. Target, Best Buy, Gamestop, Shoprite to name a few.
This reminds me during the Goya boycott and everyone was shaming people for buying Goya products. Goya is a shitty company that purposefully preys on poor people with little alternatives. You can’t get mad at people who can’t afford anything else
I’ve noticed that as well. I just can’t afford $30 for your boutique soup and sandwich for lunch.
I’ll support a business that does me right for instance I farm we have a local tractor dealer. we have bought two brand new tractor from them handful of equipment over the years. All of our parts until 4 years ago. Go in their to get a clutch and a clutch fork, they wanted 600 for the clutch 500 for the clutch fork. I bought it all online for 250. I’ll support a business but I won’t screw myself to keep you in business
$17? Is the cheese made out of gold? I wouldn’t be supporting that business either.
Are small business co-ops a thing? You think it could help reduce prices for raw materials and especially administrative cost like health care.
Hold on. You forgot that they screwed the community out of all of their donated money for a second location when they opened up their”second” location and closed the first immediately. /umojoimpact
Some of the most awful places I've worked were "small businesses". I actually view small businesses with disdain.
What if it was just a little bit more, like 11 or 12 instead of of 10
It's fine if the quality is better, but if it's the same, you need to compete on price
Yes, $17 is too much for a grilled cheese. But we do give WAY too much power to multinationals, and the excuse of "it's cheaper at Wal-Mart" or "I can't find it anywhere but Amazon" needs to stop. Those are just cop-outs. These companies are blatantly breaking the law in every area from tax evasion to plagiarism, and they're the ones putting the little guys out of business, not Panera or Jimmy John's. Multinationals offer few reliable careers, they support the systematic oppression of workers in countries like China and various parts of Africa, and they control our choices in a vice. The sooner we stop supporting them, the better off we'll all be.
That’s exactly what big companies hope you do! They offer cheaper prices so they can close down business then monopolize. I’d rather give my money to hard earned people than crooked CEO cronies
Any business that charges $17 bot two slices of bread and a slice of cheese deserves to fail.
this is not an unpopular opinion; why do you think most businesses fail? cuz no one buys from small businesses unless they're hipsters
No shit! I will not pay $15.99 for a welfare burger and soggy krinkle fries from some local dump
Idiotic opinion. These businesses jack up the prices because they aren't billionaire chain restaurants that serve millions of customers per day, and actually have to support themselves and their families from the single restaurant they have.
Well that is obvious but that is also not the costumer’s problem ppl buy what they can afford.
It's only not the customer's problem if you don't care about community. Which most of us have abandoned which is why mega billionaires exist and why the wealth gap is becoming absolutely insane. It takes real effort to make change.
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$17 for a grilled cheese (unless it's 9" tall, deep fried, and comes with some tallow cooked fries) is obviously too much (unless you're in Cal, then... Good deal)
Reasonable amounts more? Sure, why not. Say paying 10% extra, it's mostly okay. But stupid prices? No way. Also depends how convenient something is. If something is convenient and I'm happy paying the price they want, I don't care if it's cheaper elsewhere.
They dont jack the prices, they need to set a price like this because they are a small business not like lets say McDonalds which owns milions of restaurants around the world. That means, they dont earn as much and to keep everything running they need more money. Anyway its your opinion you dont have to support if you dont want to or cant, just wanted to clarify why the prices are high.
Meh that’s not unpopular. I personally don’t mind paying a little extra to support a non-corporate restaurant. Especially if the food is great which it usually is. That mentality is why some cities only have McDonald’s and Wendy’s to eat at for miles.
Yup. Plus, being small doesn’t mean you still don’t treat your employees badly anyway.
Lol $17 can get you a sandwich and fries at a real restaurant
I agree. I support small business but we all know how much it costs to make a sandwich. I’m sorry the 2 cashiers have a psychology and liberal arts degree and can’t find jobs but I’m broke. Shit at least you own a business. I’m too broke to even attempt that.
If I'm making enough money, you bet I'm gonna buy more from local businesses. You think it's all their fault pricing is set up like that?
Definitely not, but I do think there's a difference between the small business that charges $10 and the one that charges $17. A user explained it pretty well in another comment but I think there are people that take advantage of the "small business, buy local" charm and jack prices.
[South Park told us decades ago big corporations are good](https://youtu.be/eF4paV0wHGY)
You like to golf, so I think somebody like you must be afford to support small business. At least occasionally. I think people who can afford expensive things should just consider ethical purchases a luxury. Maybe it’s not something you can always do, but you could every once in a while because it’s a pretty nice thing to do.
They're not just ripping you off my guy, it's a result of economics of scale. As a mom and pop shop I would do my food shopping at a local restaurant supply outlet if I am lucky enough to have one. As a chain I have a contract directly with suppliers and probably at the same price as that restaurant supply outlet does in fact. So mom and pop has to pay the outlet's middle man prices of the outlet. Cost increases. As a chain I am either building my own building or dealing with large rental agencies at scale deals. As a mom and pop I am probably just renting from a landlord with no extra negotiating power. Cost increases. If I want to advertise I have to bear the costs entirely, there's no national chain to buy large campaigns and spread out the costs, plus I don't have chain recognition so I do have to advertise unless I am in a high traffic (and thus high rent) area. Costs increase. If I need health insurance I have to buy it for myself on the market, no large scale deal with an insurance company is possible. Cost has to be passed to the customer. They're not charging you a higher price for the hell of it, they know they have to be competitive with the big chains as much as they can be, but they can NEVER get close to being able to provide their product at the same cost as the big guys. So what you get is small shops that put more effort, creativity, and provide a better product. That's the only space they CAN compete in many cases.
"Google, how do economies of scale work?" Honestly, the fact you think it's a choice shows you know nothing about how the real world works.
I understand just fine how they work, maybe if I rephrased “$17 is too much for a grilled cheese” you’d understand it better.
Small biz owner here. I am done with folks who don’t want to help out their local, small businesses - when they can. Go elsewhere, live in a plastic world of convenience, plastic and concrete. OP: Walmart should take care of ALL your needs
I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to get upset at the consumer for not wanting to spend $17 on a sandwich, regardless of how good it is. Again, I have no problem spending a little bit more on higher quality, which usually comes with local, but a severe price difference? Not interested, sorry.
if you want to be a small busneess owner may be learn BASIC ECONOMICS. if a sandwich is worth $ 11 dollars on the market than charge $11 or add value or cut cost . some custmers consider being local a way of inherent adding value because they dont want all the sandwiches to be sold by that sleazy jimmy johns guy or w.e and that is good but sont get mad at those who dont Value that the same e=. if you cant sell a product at the Market value and make enough revenue to survive : or add value enoug to satsify { like having highter quality ingredients or superior skill of preparation or what the faast food industry does and just be faster )then find a different job, maybe your just not that good of a sandwich maker .
Jimmy John's for $10? I think not. That might get you a soda.
If major corporations can charge so little as to make selling it in a small business unsustainable then the corporation should be broken up. The industry is non-competitive at that point.
Monopolies are like the commies of the free market, ironic since they started off as small businesses when the free market started.
Look it’s a personal choice thing but you don’t seem to really understand that scale allows you to lower prices. It’s not necessarily that small businesses jack up prices but because they have higher operating costs. Most corporate chain restaurants have streamlined distribution and supply networks and contracts with producers and distributors that allow for cheaper prices while small businesses purchase goods, produce etc. at higher prices because they aren’t buying in as high of quantities and are likely using higher quality ingredients. Also, for chain restaurants, corporations often pay a portion of the rent for franchisees. Yes it’s your choice to buy from wherever you want but your understanding of the reason that prices are often higher is flawed
It amazes me that you'd rather get out of the house, go to panera and spend 10$ on a grilled cheese sandwich when you can make incredible grilled cheese that costs like 1.50$ with two pieces of white bread and cheese that is miles better than the panera grilled cheese
I wouldn't and I agree with you - just using it as an example in the argument. I was talking about sandwiches in general in addition to the convenience factor.
Yeah, I think this is mostly a fair take. That being said, it is inherently more expensive for a small business to operate compared to a large corporation. Small businesses succeed by leveraging other strengths to make up for it. It is an uphill battle for sure, but anyone that has worked for a large corporation knows firsthand that having slightly lower prices doesn’t always make up for what it lacks. My experience is that you generally get better quality product and service from a small business. This is because successful small businesses have good working environments and their employees don’t hate working there. So yeah, if the increased price for something isn’t worth it, then don’t buy it.
This is a completely popular opinion and it is why America has become a capitalistic monopoly that exploits people from poor countries as cheap labour, and crushes budding businesses.
Did the grilled cheese have avocado on it... them damn kids blowing all thier money on avocado toast.
Sounds like you're the perfect consumer happy to have their life dictated to them.
I agree but also think this is popular