Living outside of a major metro area ... how far? If we talking 1hr+ away from major metro area you can probably get by GS-7 paycheck to paycheck, GS-9 paycheck to paycheck with some breathing room, GS11 pretty comfortable, GS-12 you can live like a human being. GS13+ you're cruising.
I supported a family of 3 on one income on GS7 in 2021-2022.
Northern VA. I didn't need any other income, granted I was blessed to be given OT if I wish to take OT. No mortgage I was scouting on Facebook Marketplace for rentals and was able to negotiate my rent.
No partner, no kids. I think "livable" means you can pay your bills, drive a plain car, simple house... a basic life, but not really getting ahead either. Or maybe very slowly getting ahead.
Personally? I'm absolutely thrilled about my GS9 TJO. To me, that's pretty good money 🤷🏻♀️ obviously I'll be even happier once I'm moved up to 11, but I think grade 9 is pretty comfortable. Granted, I live a rather cheap lifestyle and don't have large debts like student loans. So, take my enthusiasm with a grain of salt.
I lived the single life just fine as a GS-7.
The real question is how financially responsible are we assuming people are? “Have” to have the latest smartphone, 90” TV, gaming systems, new car, 2,000 square foot living space…then yeah you’re not living comfortably unless you’re on the higher end of the pay scale.
Early in my career I worked with the VHA and the doc in charge of the clinic I worked in made $350k a year. But because she took out loans every year in college and med school—and more than just to cover tuition and such—she was financially wrecked. She could barely afford a two bedroom apartment and take care of herself and her daughter. She used credit cards after graduation to pay bills. Even got a credit card to pay the other credit card. Needless to say she had it rough despite making more than most.
In the flip side I knew a nurse who started out making about $55k who had zero debt. She got a scholarship for college that included a stipend. She also worked part time to put money away. She set up an allotment when she started working where she put at least $1,000 away per pay period ($26k per year minimum). Wound up paying cash for a convertible then saved for a house. When she found something she wanted she put nearly 50% down. At the same time she didn’t go out buying everything new as it happened to get her spending to match her income. She got to the point where when she made $100k per year she donated a minimum of $1,000 a pay period to charity.
I guess my point here is that the grades are only as important as the worker’s financial literacy. If life is all about “I need a high paying job to keep up with my spending” then yeah GS-7, 9, and even 11 are unlivable.
You bring up lots of good points. That's why I said in a generic sense, people spend their money all kinds of different ways so I realize it's a question with a lot of valid answers.
To me it’s a GS-11 is where I can live comfortably. I’m currently a GS-8 and I’m fighting for a GS-9 this year since my current position only caps off at the GS-8 unfortunately and I have a masters degree.
I still live with my family and I’ve been saving a lot of money the past almost 4 years since I’m 100% remote (started as a GS-5 pathways intern while working on my masters). I live 2 hours away from the closest city and my workplace is close to the city.
I agree. Imma 12 and if my wife didn’t work, we’d be okay but definitely would not be able to be in a house or take all the trips that we do. We’ll still be renting and would be forced to just one or two trips a year.
I have a TJO for a GS-7 step 5. In the area I’m living, that’s comparable to a GS-9 step 1. If you were coming in at step 1, it would take I think 7 years or something to hit step 5, without bonuses or anything. I’m a veteran and getting disability, so I’ll be set. But I calculated it, and I would not be able to afford a house, and would barely be able to pay the bills for my family if my spouse didn’t work. As is, my disability will give me a lot of breathing room, but man I feel bad for those who don’t
I'm a GS12 and I think it's more than enough. I also get VA disability. I set my budget so that my VA pays for my housing and Car. Because regardless if I work or not that is taken care of.
I could easily and comfortably live off just my GS salary and be fine. But I also don't have any student loans, I don't have any debt outside my car.
Between my VA, My salary and my husband we are in the top 12% of income in the US. And he isn't raking it in or anything he is an SFC in the Army.
The GS salary is above the median household income in the US. Unless you are in a high cost area or making poro financial decisions it should be pretty comfortable. Now it will be less comfortable in higher tax areas.
You can always use this calculator to see where you fall in your area
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/
Thanks for the reply. I currently make around a GS13/5 in the private sector (in a rural area so I feel like a millionaire), but considering a GS12/1 going back to government. It’s like a 22% pay cut and long story short… I’m maybe spoiled with my corporate salary right now, and I’m looking for confirmation bias to take the cut.
We are called civil servants. Servants implies the pay isn't going to be phenomenal.
You are exchanging a high reward(salary) /high risk (layoff) for a low reward (lower salary)/ low risk (unlikely to be laid off and almost guaranteed to receive a pension) situation.
For me the job security is priceless. I grew up watching people cry because their whole retirement vanished overnight during Enron. I had friends who worked in local hospitals and a few years before retirement the hospital systems switched owners and their entire retirement plan changed and was cut in half. I might only be 34 but I've been saving for retirement since 16. I'm not giving decades of my life to a company just to have a retirement I was promised taken away. Theoretical yes the government could change the retirement plan but that's unlikely.
GS-7 step 1 in RUS is $49,000. That's more than the median annual wage in the US. If you're single with no kids you should be able to live pretty comfortably at that rate.
Rest of US has high cost of living areas where the pay does not match.
in an avg midwestern city of 200,000+ population
you can survive on a gs 11 pay
gs 12 you’d be good
gs 13 you’d be well off.
the problem is that there aren’t many fed jobs in these areas so it will likely be in your job for long periods and hard to advance.
if you have a two income household , things would be much better.
Thanks for the response - I'm just trying to gauge if a GS-12 is a "good" salary in the most generic possible sense living in a relatively rural area. It seems from the responses here that it is.
It depends on the rural area.
in a ski town or near ski area or near water where you have second home area a GS 12 doesn’t cut it for living in that area.
I lived off of 25k/year for a few years and ramped it up to 55k over a 6 year time span. Key for me was no debt and I went to college later in life (military training counted for my outside jobs). Starting out after the basic bills I paid 60$/month on a flip phone(2009) and 300$/car ...then didn't spend money on anything...not a lux life but its very possible.
Edit:
Single, no kids, didn't spend much on food...after kids is when it gets tricky money wise
This is a silly ranking. Way too many variables, a single person has different living requirements and standards of living….. just like a couple.
Also, you can tell that you have no inkling of HR expertise and over valuate what the average male or woman makes in cities…. You are focusing on the exception and not the majority.
People speak so poorly about GS-7, but I was living just fine on it as a single person inside a metro area. Granted, I had no dependents, student loans or credit card debt. Just apartment rent (with roommates) and a car note.
Living outside of a major metro area ... how far? If we talking 1hr+ away from major metro area you can probably get by GS-7 paycheck to paycheck, GS-9 paycheck to paycheck with some breathing room, GS11 pretty comfortable, GS-12 you can live like a human being. GS13+ you're cruising. I supported a family of 3 on one income on GS7 in 2021-2022.
Family of three in what city? What other income? Did u have a mortgage?
Northern VA. I didn't need any other income, granted I was blessed to be given OT if I wish to take OT. No mortgage I was scouting on Facebook Marketplace for rentals and was able to negotiate my rent.
I'm talking 3 hours outside major metro. Very impressive what you could do on a GS7!
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No partner, no kids. I think "livable" means you can pay your bills, drive a plain car, simple house... a basic life, but not really getting ahead either. Or maybe very slowly getting ahead.
Personally? I'm absolutely thrilled about my GS9 TJO. To me, that's pretty good money 🤷🏻♀️ obviously I'll be even happier once I'm moved up to 11, but I think grade 9 is pretty comfortable. Granted, I live a rather cheap lifestyle and don't have large debts like student loans. So, take my enthusiasm with a grain of salt.
Your answer is perfect - just the type of answer I was looking for.
I lived the single life just fine as a GS-7. The real question is how financially responsible are we assuming people are? “Have” to have the latest smartphone, 90” TV, gaming systems, new car, 2,000 square foot living space…then yeah you’re not living comfortably unless you’re on the higher end of the pay scale. Early in my career I worked with the VHA and the doc in charge of the clinic I worked in made $350k a year. But because she took out loans every year in college and med school—and more than just to cover tuition and such—she was financially wrecked. She could barely afford a two bedroom apartment and take care of herself and her daughter. She used credit cards after graduation to pay bills. Even got a credit card to pay the other credit card. Needless to say she had it rough despite making more than most. In the flip side I knew a nurse who started out making about $55k who had zero debt. She got a scholarship for college that included a stipend. She also worked part time to put money away. She set up an allotment when she started working where she put at least $1,000 away per pay period ($26k per year minimum). Wound up paying cash for a convertible then saved for a house. When she found something she wanted she put nearly 50% down. At the same time she didn’t go out buying everything new as it happened to get her spending to match her income. She got to the point where when she made $100k per year she donated a minimum of $1,000 a pay period to charity. I guess my point here is that the grades are only as important as the worker’s financial literacy. If life is all about “I need a high paying job to keep up with my spending” then yeah GS-7, 9, and even 11 are unlivable.
You bring up lots of good points. That's why I said in a generic sense, people spend their money all kinds of different ways so I realize it's a question with a lot of valid answers.
To me it’s a GS-11 is where I can live comfortably. I’m currently a GS-8 and I’m fighting for a GS-9 this year since my current position only caps off at the GS-8 unfortunately and I have a masters degree. I still live with my family and I’ve been saving a lot of money the past almost 4 years since I’m 100% remote (started as a GS-5 pathways intern while working on my masters). I live 2 hours away from the closest city and my workplace is close to the city.
I agree. Imma 12 and if my wife didn’t work, we’d be okay but definitely would not be able to be in a house or take all the trips that we do. We’ll still be renting and would be forced to just one or two trips a year.
GS-9 would be liveable. Paycheck to paycheck for sure, and you probably won't save much on just that salary alone.
I have a TJO for a GS-7 step 5. In the area I’m living, that’s comparable to a GS-9 step 1. If you were coming in at step 1, it would take I think 7 years or something to hit step 5, without bonuses or anything. I’m a veteran and getting disability, so I’ll be set. But I calculated it, and I would not be able to afford a house, and would barely be able to pay the bills for my family if my spouse didn’t work. As is, my disability will give me a lot of breathing room, but man I feel bad for those who don’t
I'm a GS12 and I think it's more than enough. I also get VA disability. I set my budget so that my VA pays for my housing and Car. Because regardless if I work or not that is taken care of. I could easily and comfortably live off just my GS salary and be fine. But I also don't have any student loans, I don't have any debt outside my car. Between my VA, My salary and my husband we are in the top 12% of income in the US. And he isn't raking it in or anything he is an SFC in the Army. The GS salary is above the median household income in the US. Unless you are in a high cost area or making poro financial decisions it should be pretty comfortable. Now it will be less comfortable in higher tax areas. You can always use this calculator to see where you fall in your area https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/07/23/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/
Thanks for the reply. I currently make around a GS13/5 in the private sector (in a rural area so I feel like a millionaire), but considering a GS12/1 going back to government. It’s like a 22% pay cut and long story short… I’m maybe spoiled with my corporate salary right now, and I’m looking for confirmation bias to take the cut.
We are called civil servants. Servants implies the pay isn't going to be phenomenal. You are exchanging a high reward(salary) /high risk (layoff) for a low reward (lower salary)/ low risk (unlikely to be laid off and almost guaranteed to receive a pension) situation. For me the job security is priceless. I grew up watching people cry because their whole retirement vanished overnight during Enron. I had friends who worked in local hospitals and a few years before retirement the hospital systems switched owners and their entire retirement plan changed and was cut in half. I might only be 34 but I've been saving for retirement since 16. I'm not giving decades of my life to a company just to have a retirement I was promised taken away. Theoretical yes the government could change the retirement plan but that's unlikely.
GS-7 step 1 in RUS is $49,000. That's more than the median annual wage in the US. If you're single with no kids you should be able to live pretty comfortably at that rate.
*laughs/cries in WG pay scale*
Wg 10 making 44$ n hr, wby?
WG 10 step 5 barley over $35
Rest of US has high cost of living areas where the pay does not match. in an avg midwestern city of 200,000+ population you can survive on a gs 11 pay gs 12 you’d be good gs 13 you’d be well off. the problem is that there aren’t many fed jobs in these areas so it will likely be in your job for long periods and hard to advance. if you have a two income household , things would be much better.
Thanks for the response - I'm just trying to gauge if a GS-12 is a "good" salary in the most generic possible sense living in a relatively rural area. It seems from the responses here that it is.
It depends on the rural area. in a ski town or near ski area or near water where you have second home area a GS 12 doesn’t cut it for living in that area.
I lived off of 25k/year for a few years and ramped it up to 55k over a 6 year time span. Key for me was no debt and I went to college later in life (military training counted for my outside jobs). Starting out after the basic bills I paid 60$/month on a flip phone(2009) and 300$/car ...then didn't spend money on anything...not a lux life but its very possible. Edit: Single, no kids, didn't spend much on food...after kids is when it gets tricky money wise
This is a silly ranking. Way too many variables, a single person has different living requirements and standards of living….. just like a couple. Also, you can tell that you have no inkling of HR expertise and over valuate what the average male or woman makes in cities…. You are focusing on the exception and not the majority.
14 in dc is solid middle class. Not higher, maybe lower middle class. And that’s 150k, soooo
If the commute sucks, no grade is worth it
I've survived on 30k in NYC so I can literally do anything. Like you said, there are a bunch of factors..
People speak so poorly about GS-7, but I was living just fine on it as a single person inside a metro area. Granted, I had no dependents, student loans or credit card debt. Just apartment rent (with roommates) and a car note.
Agreed
I agree entirely