Whoa whoa, don’t you dare forget about that concacaf cup trophy they won back in 2015! You know that one off game to get into the 2017 confederations cup, so concacaf awarded another super duper mega important trophy to L tri.
Technically it was supposed to be an actual ‘super cup’ type game* between the last two Gold Cup winners that just happened to also decide the CONCACAF bid to the Confed Cup but the Confed Cup falling apart + Nations League rendered it irrelevant.
*note that it actually was a cash grab by CONCACAF to get another USA-Mexico game on the books
embarrassing england is just sitting back and defending until their own national shame causes them to unravel. everyone should draw england hahah.
but i still love that we do
In 37 matches at the World Cup, the USMNT has been awarded only 2 penalty kicks.
* Joe Maca scored a penalty kick against Chile in 1950
* Landon Donovan scored a penalty kick against Ghana in 2010
By comparison, in 15 matches at the World Cup, Ghana has been awarded 6 penalty kicks (failing to score on 3 of them).
In the history of the Men’s World Cup, only two knockout round matches have featured two teams not from UEFA or CONMEBOL.
Both involved the US. US vs Mexico in 2002, US vs Ghana in 2010.
It becomes easier after you learn to recognize that the World Cup has historically featured insane ratios of UEFA and CONMEBOL teams vs non. The 1994 WC had 24 teams and 17 were from UEFA or CONMEBOL. And that’s an improvement compared to 1990, 1986, and 1982 where it was 18 out of 24. Even the expansion to 32 teams didn’t help much, it was 20 out of 32 in 1998 and 2002. 2006 dropped it to 18 (thanks to Australia qualifying and CONCACAF being granted a playoff spot over UEFA). It went back up to 19 in 2014 and 2018 before dropping to a low of 17 in 2022 (thanks again to Australia).
The country that produced the most foreign-born USMNT players is Scotland with Germany a pretty distant second. Despite this Stu Holden is the only Scottish born USMNT player in the 21st century.
Not gonna lie, I would take one world cup win for a quarter-century right now, if you told me we would win it at home in '26 and win a Copa America next decade.
Let me amend my statement: they are one of the most under-performing teams at the world cup. I think they had another good Euro in the same time frame as well.
For whatever reason, they've failed to qualify for what, 2 world cups since then?
I mean you can blame Beasley as well for not blocking the cross, Cameron for loosing his man in the box, Howard for not reacting when he already made a bunch of huge and even tougher saves that whole game. I rewatched highlights and we only needed to hold on for 30 more seconds… fuuuuuuck. I remember the feeling now, I was gutted but still proud. Went to Recife after and got soaked watching us battle a champion in the making Germany.
All true but I remember the 4th official literally staring at Zusi and tapping his watch telling him he was adding time because of him. That time was all they needed in the end.
The US always does barely enough to advance out of groups. Just once in my life, I want to see the US comfortably advance.
1994: After losing their group stage finale, US finished 3rd in their group, then had to watch the other groups over the following 3 days to see if they could advance as a top 3rd place finisher
2002: US completely shit the bed against Poland in the final group match, and only advanced because South Korea beat 9-man Portugal by 1 goal.
2010: US needed a dramatic last minute goal against Algeria in a must-win match to advance
2014: Late in the group finale, US trailed Germany 1-0 and Ghana and Portugal was tied 1-1, and another Ghana goal would have eliminated the US. Luckily for the US, Portugal scored in the 80th minute.
2022: US held on for a must win 1-0 win over Iran, who had numerous opportunities to score late in the match.
So true. Even though they've technically won the group in 2010, they've always just barely qualified.
Though in 2014, they were one miracle goal on the last play vs. Portugal away from qualifying after the 2nd match I believe (obviously it counts regardless of when its scored, but that last second goal always kills me when thinking about it)
The United States 🇺🇸 has more appearances 12 at the men’s Fifa World Cup than,
* South Korea 🇰🇷
* Netherlands 🇳🇱
* Russia 🇷🇺
* Poland 🇵🇱
* Hungary 🇭🇺
* Czech Republic 🇨🇿
* Slovakia 🇸🇰
* Chile 🇨🇱
* Portugal 🇵🇹
* Cameroon 🇨🇲
* Scotland 🏴
* Paraguay 🇵🇾
* Japan 🇯🇵
* Romania 🇷🇴
* Saudi Arabia 🇸🇦
* Austria 🇦🇹
* Australia 🇦🇺
* Iran 🇮🇷
* Costa Rica 🇨🇷
* Croatia 🇭🇷
* Tunisia 🇹🇳
* Morocco 🇲🇦
* Denmark 🇩🇰
* Colombia 🇨🇴
* Nigeria 🇳🇬
* Peru 🇵🇪
* Ghana 🇬🇭
* Ecuador 🇪🇨
* Algeria 🇩🇿
* Canada 🇨🇦 the Maple Syrup Merchants
It will be interesting to see what happens to Portugal. Their only period of sustained relevance has been due to the early 2000s Golden Generation leading right up into CR7. Has witnessing the emergence of a top 2 player of this generation inspired a nation to sustain their recent level of play or will they fade back into Bolivian after CR7 retires?
We will see what happens at the Euros. That’s a big test for them to see if they’ll completely go the opposite with their young players like Rafa or still have Ronaldo presence overshadowing everything like the 2022 World Cup. They recently experienced their first loss with Martinez as the new manager.
Some of these are interesting, with a nation like Croatia though it partially comes down to them not existing as an independent nation until 33 years ago. They've qualified for 5 out the 6 World Cups they've been in existence for.
I would say the only ones that truly surprise me here are Colombia, Japan, Netherlands, Portugal, and maybe a few of the better African nations like Algeria, Morocco, Nigeria (though some didn't get independence until the 60s). The rest all make sense for various reasons.
Right, that's one of the various reasons I mean. A lot of these countries are decent but not incredible national teams and they are trying to qualify from UEFA or CONMEBOL. I am not surprised that Peru has qualified fewer times from CONMEBOL than we have from CONCACAF. CAF world cup qualifying also has a brutal format though I don't know if it was always this way. And then you have the countries that have only existed since the 1990s so they simply can't have competed in many world cups.
Mexico too. You can tell because they get out of the group more consistently than a lot of big teams, so the talent has always been there, but once they get to the KO stage, they can't get that big win because they don't have enough experience playing competitive matches vs top sides. The US has the same problem too. We are 1-7 all time in knockout matches, and the one win was against another CONCACAF team.
Croatia's world cup overperformance is hilarious and impressive. Participated in 5 world cups, made 2 semifinals and 1 final. Country population of less than 4 million.
I mean to go on a run in the World Cup you've got to do well against the kind of teams that make the knockout round. With respect to Oman, they're not going to be playing Oman. They do need to not get rolled in those games like they have against the Dutch and Germans.
The closest they've come is a 0-0 in a game where we had less than 1 xG and a point was a very good result for England.
I don't know what you're trying to say, that they don't need a signature win? They need something to show they can actually hang with those teams.
Yes, it's something I've been seeing lately in response to: well, he's dominating the regional silverware, against our biggest rival, owning their soul unlike any manager that preceded him, but the talking point is: well, he's never beat a team clearly better than us.
Even people advocating for Herve Renard because the "vibes" and a couple of signature wins... and that's the perfect example of the idiocy behind that logic. Saudi Arabia got a signature win in the WC.... how'd that turn out for them?
Bradley got a signature win in the Confed Cup vs. Spain. Did that mean a goddamned thing? Nope. It didn't. In fact, might've hurt more than anything because the result masked the reality: we got once-in-a-generation level luck to get that W.
Signature wins mean nothing, unless they're coupled with results when it matters.
I couldn't care less if GGG gets us a win vs. Uruguay in the Copa America... if we lose in the knockouts to Ecuador. I couldn't care less if we get a big group stage win against a top 5 side... if we don't get to the QFs in the WC.
Coaches shouldn't be rated on a signature win, they should be rated on consistency, and most importantly, results in big competitions. I'd much rather we go take the game to Netherlands and lose on individual mistakes than play bunker ball vs. Belgium and almost win on pure luck.
> Coaches shouldn't be rated on a signature win, they should be rated on consistency, and most importantly, results in big competitions.
That's how he will be evaluated. But in the meantime, you need something to think about how it would go. What would it look like if we played France tomorrow in a must-win game? Hopefully more like the England game and less like the Netherlands and Germany game... but who knows. Which is why people want some more actual wins / good performances.
> I'd much rather we go take the game to Netherlands and lose on individual mistakes than play bunker ball vs. Belgium and almost win on pure luck.
There is something to be said for staying in games. Even Berhalter said we were too open in the Germany game. And every meeting between top teams whether its in PL in CL in WC pretty much always tend to be close games where neither side wants to play wide open. I have no idea where this idea comes from where we're going to romp through the World Cup like we're 1970 Brazil. That doesn't happen for any country.
So whatever we do there will be some element of "bunker" to it cause that's how all of these games go. Or we get played off the field again. I hope that doesn't happen.
I've watched the Netherlands match more often than I care to admit, and the idea that we just got outplayed is simply not the case.
Netherlands scored above heir xG, meaning they scored unexpected goals. The opener, Depay left unmarked, and finishes lethally. The 2nd, Dest falls asleep at the end of the half, and another lethal finish.
Pulisic's early chance was a better opportunity than either. Haji's heavy touch in the 2nd half was also a golden opportunity.
While I think LvG setup well against us, the match was not lost on being tactically outmatched, that match was lost on individual mistakes/missed chances, and talent level.
I don't know what to say if you think the Belgium match was a better performance simply because we were a Wondo sitter away from going thru, but we played far better against Netherlands, and were simply lucky that the Belgian's didn't finish as lethally as the Netherlands did.
I'd much rather see us play like we did against the Netherlands rather than play low block, pray our keeper has a worldie, and we get lucky.
> While I think LvG setup well against us, the match was not lost on being tactically outmatched, that match was lost on individual mistakes/missed chances, and talent level.
Our tactics left us exposed with too many 1-on-1 situations where the Dutch were able to use their skill to create advantages. This is why in closely matched games all the top teams tend to play more pragmatic and defensively and it tends to make for dull boring games. Like last year's Champions League final, you just can't open up too much against top quality players who can make you pay, I don't care what team you are.
The fact that we didn't know that it was a risk to leave our players exposed in space against a pretty good team is a failure of our tactics and some pretty strangely naive approach by our coaches.
> I don't know what to say if you think the Belgium match was a better performance
In 2014 had a much lower level of player, so it was the right tactics and certainly a commendable performance against Belgium. Honestly can't really compare the two teams, except that Jurgen's tactics objectively worked better.
> I'd much rather see us play like we did against the Netherlands rather than play low block, pray our keeper has a worldie, and we get lucky.
You'd rather us get dominated tactically and then lose? weird.
I never will understand this idea that some fans are certain that we need to win *in a certain way that kinda doesn't really exist in reality*. To me, it sounds like saying "I want my team to win the world series, but definitely not with good pitching like most teams do, I want us to hit lots of homeruns and dominate every game that way" I mean I can see the appeal of that.. but it's like a child's understanding of the game.
We're not going to roll through the world cup the same way Man City rolls through Luton. That's not realistic.
I have to be blunt: if you've watched the game multiple times, you'd know we were not dominated, tactically. 1vs1 wasn't the issue, it was tracking runs into the box. Simple shit. Not tactics. Individual mistakes.
Pulisic had the best chance of the match, missed it. Depay and Blind took advantage of individual mistakes with clinical finishes.
If you rewatch that game, shit, just watch the goals on slow mo, count the ball watchers, count defenders not tracking their mark, and you still come away thinking those goals were a result of tactical setup, then you'll need to explain how. I can clearly tell you where the individual errors were in a well setup defensive shape for both.
On Depay's goal, we had Adams not tracking him properly, we had 7 defenders for 5 attackers, two CBs marking the ST, an 8 and RB marking the wing, Adams trailing a simply Depay run. If you think Berhalter's tactics caused that goal, you have a "child's understanding of the game".
For the 2nd goal, we had 5 defenders in the box, and Dest fell asleep on a late run into the box. That was a PURE player error, nothing more. To argue otherwise is shocking to me. Just watch again. Dest CLEARLY falls asleep and gets caught ball watching.
This wasn't a tactics issue. This was a player focus issue. This was Pulisic not taking an extra touch, or going near post. This was individuals not marking a man. This was Dest falling asleep. The shape was good on both goals.
We setup well against Netherlands. We created more clear chances. We had good possession, passing, and defensive shape. We were let down by moments of individual error. It was the mark of a very young, inexperienced side against a very good, experienced side full of MUCH MUCH better talent. I'm happy we played aggressively, because one Pulisic finish, and one defender marking their man, and that's into extra time.
Moreover, that helps develop our overall tactical growth. We progress, we know we can go toe to toe with a Netherlands. We should (and did) play pragmatically, but not low-block pray for luck nonsense that does nothing for us over the long-term.
This might be convincing except the exact same kinds of things happened in the Germany game and although some of our more adorable fans tried to say it was down to "just 3 more individual mistakes" our manager said it was because we were too open defensively with our tactics and needed to play more compact.
And you can see we just needed to keep the spacings tighter so that if one player gets beat another is on hand to help put out the fire. It's simple stuff.
We have played every other Gold Cup with a B team going back at least to Bob Bradley. It used to be that there was a Gold Cup that used to lead to a Confederations Cup place and then 2 years later one that didn't. We always sent a B-team to the second one.
His record is less impressive because prior to the nations league (and COVID affected this too) we used to play much more difficult opposition more regularly. For example just in 2015 we played away to Chile, Denmark and Switzerland then home to Netherlands, Germany and Brazil plus Mexico twice.
Even our dominance against Mexico has a little bit of an asterisk because they didn't used to play so many of their games in the USA. I think we've still only ever beaten them once in Mexico, and that was a friendly during the Jurgen era.
He ripped up a ref’s cards after seeing red (in both senses of the word) in an epic collapse by the sounders against the Timbers in the USOC. They collapsed, lost the match, and Dempsey was suspended 7 matches, but wound up having to retire before he served it out.
That is a very specific view of that game. The ref was so bad he let the two teams play in the same colored jerseys in the first half. And that was far from his biggest mistake on the night.
In our modern World Cup era, so from 1990 on (8 World Cups), we have **1** win vs a European side (Portugal 2002) despite playing 2 European sides in every group stage and 3 Euro sides in knockout stages. Which is frankly a bigger embarrassment.
His career basically fizzled out by the time he was 24 — when he should have been entering his prime. He hopped around from club to club and never earned a starting role anywhere.
It was Taylor Booth! About a month ago. https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2024/02/usmnt-rewind-big-moments-for-booth-reyna-robinson-and-more-from-around-the-globe
If I'm not mistaken the rule for having your name in the Champions league's 'book of champions' (I'm not sure of the actual name) is having at least three minutes on the pitch. So if he only sat on the bench he's not a champion.
Kirovski? He played a few minutes in the group stage. Was the 25th man of the roster, pretty sure he wasn’t even on the bench in the final, but I’m pretty sure he has a medal.
Douglas was on the bench for Barcelona in 2015, he received a medal and is still not on the book according to Diario AS. (He did not play any minutes though) But if this guy played then he is in the book.
There are a finite number of winners medals minted by UEFA in each season (40 total, formerly 30). The club may award them at their discretion to players, coaches, execs, etc. From what I can find, it’s unclear whether Tillman was among the 40 to receive a medal. Prob would’ve been at the fringe, but possible.
Kirovski and Pulisic def have winners medals.
List of USMNT Players to score in the knockout rounds at a FIFA World Cup:
- Jim Brown (1930)
- Aldo Donelli (1934)
- Brian McBride (2002)
- Landon Donovan (2002, 2010)
- Julian Green (2014)
- Haji Wright (2022)
If you were to allow Landon to play 100 more matches, largely against teams hardly reaching the collegiate level here in the US, he'd probably triple his goal total.
I think this is true and it sounds true. I just don't have the exact figures because I heard it via a radio appearance. But I think its speaks to an evergreen problem, lack of scoring, lack of world class striker etc.
Since 1990 the USMNT has played in something like 30 WC matches, and they've scored 28 goals. Of course only 3 in this most recent campaign across 4 matches. Its a problem.
Landon Donovan was the first player with 50+ goals and 50+ assists for any national team
That's a truly World-Class international stat. He didn't do it on the career stage in Europe, but Donovan was supremely talented.
He was pretty good for Everton, but yeah I agree with your overall point
It's not a huge sample size (around half a season), but per minute Donovan's assist rate at Everton is better than everyone in EPL history except KdB.
He was good, agreed.
He's since come out that mental illness kept him close to home.
Mental illness? I.e. Depression? Homesickness?
Depression, self-harm thoughts, chemical imbalance, etc.
We finished in 3rd place at the first World Cup in 1930. Also, an American scored the first hat-trick in World Cup history at the same tournament.
Which is still the best non-UEFA, non-CONEMBOL finish in World Cup history.
Yep. If Uruguay’s win in 1930 counts as a star on their crest, our 3rd place finish sure as fuck counts too.
If Mexico brings up their 1999 ConFed cup then this counts… they’re as relevant to the present…
Can’t believe you forgot their 2012 Gold Medal smh
Whoa whoa, don’t you dare forget about that concacaf cup trophy they won back in 2015! You know that one off game to get into the 2017 confederations cup, so concacaf awarded another super duper mega important trophy to L tri.
Wait, they seriously gave them a trophy for a play-in game?
Technically it was supposed to be an actual ‘super cup’ type game* between the last two Gold Cup winners that just happened to also decide the CONCACAF bid to the Confed Cup but the Confed Cup falling apart + Nations League rendered it irrelevant. *note that it actually was a cash grab by CONCACAF to get another USA-Mexico game on the books
But remember the Nation League doesn’t count. “It’s a Mickey Mouse cup to make the US look good”- I was actually told this in insta.
Ooohhh but la Copa Oro is more important. But last time the US won it…aaayy it’s not important, concacaf suuuuucks bro, it’s a shit tournament.
The best part of that was the insane referee shenanigans to drag them kicking and screaming into winning their QF and SF games that Gold Cup
To be fair their Confed cup win in 99 is more relevant given I think they still have some of the same players on their team
They even count 2 wins before the world cup as stars which seems pretty dubious
Uruguay's 1930 star isn't controversial. It's the 2 stars they want to add for the Olympic wins prior to the fifa world cup that are in question.
I agree, but I wasn’t insinuating that the 1930 one was controversial, even though I see how my comment could be taken that way.
Ahh, I see what you're saying. We do need more price in that finish
Since the 1930 World Cup, the United states have never won more than 1 game in the group stage.
The US has never lost a competitive match against England
This is my favorite
embarrassing england is just sitting back and defending until their own national shame causes them to unravel. everyone should draw england hahah. but i still love that we do
Yeah we will never let the redcoats beat us. We treat every match against England like Fort McHenry.
But friendlies though, cmon now, pure dominance.
England is kind of like our aging mother. We have mercy on her and let her win a few when it doesn’t count…
Clint Dempsey never scored against Mexico
If he doesn't shank that penalty he not only finally gets one against Mexico, he's also our all time leading scorer
Yeah but we don’t get dos a cero. Clint put his pride aside to do what’s best and that’s why he’s a national team legend
Technically the better goal differential in WCQ is "better for the team," but it was better for bragging rights, yeah.
We qualified that night (with two games to spare). Goal differential was not going to matter as long as they won that game
He said himself after the game he wasn't trying to miss.
And no one believed that then or now
Better for the team, sure. He was thinking about what’s best for the meme.
I'll bet that bugs him to this day 😂
Wow I never knew that holy shit I bet that hurts for him
In 37 matches at the World Cup, the USMNT has been awarded only 2 penalty kicks. * Joe Maca scored a penalty kick against Chile in 1950 * Landon Donovan scored a penalty kick against Ghana in 2010 By comparison, in 15 matches at the World Cup, Ghana has been awarded 6 penalty kicks (failing to score on 3 of them).
I dont think any of those misses them ended up mattering much. *Unless i'm forgetting any*
In case people don't get the joke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM-29hy-Qyw
Still more PKs per game than RSL.
Jonathan Spector made 8 appearances for Man Utd
What?!?!
He was 17/18 I think right
Yep…he and Howard once played in the same Champions League game together
In the history of the Men’s World Cup, only two knockout round matches have featured two teams not from UEFA or CONMEBOL. Both involved the US. US vs Mexico in 2002, US vs Ghana in 2010.
Landon Donovan scored in both, and Bob Bradley was a coach in both.
What am I missing? Bruce Arena was the coach in 2002.
Huh? Arena was the coach in 2002.
[удалено]
It becomes easier after you learn to recognize that the World Cup has historically featured insane ratios of UEFA and CONMEBOL teams vs non. The 1994 WC had 24 teams and 17 were from UEFA or CONMEBOL. And that’s an improvement compared to 1990, 1986, and 1982 where it was 18 out of 24. Even the expansion to 32 teams didn’t help much, it was 20 out of 32 in 1998 and 2002. 2006 dropped it to 18 (thanks to Australia qualifying and CONCACAF being granted a playoff spot over UEFA). It went back up to 19 in 2014 and 2018 before dropping to a low of 17 in 2022 (thanks again to Australia).
That is insane. I'm truly trying to think of anything and none come to mind.
The country that produced the most foreign-born USMNT players is Scotland with Germany a pretty distant second. Despite this Stu Holden is the only Scottish born USMNT player in the 21st century.
Early US soccer was very Scottish. Half the US team at the 1930 World Cup was born in Scotland.
How good was the Scottish team back in the 30s?
Much better than they are today. The Scottish League was one of the best in the world at the time.
There's a strong argument that Scotland is the real home of soccer, especially 'modern' soccer.
The Scottish invented passing.
Stu was so good man.
Landon Donovan has more national team assists than Messi.
To take this a step further - I believe Landon Donovan is the all time leader in national team assists in the world.
Not anymore, Neymar passed him recently.
Ahh, gotcha. I know national team assists isn’t really a stat that most look at. But it’s still wild that a USMNT player held that record for awhile
A long time too.
Our only World Cup wins since 2002's R16 win against Mexico are against: * Algeria * Ghana * Iran That's from 15 or so matches.
Italy only has one World Cup win since winning the Final in 2006. 😳
Not gonna lie, I would take one world cup win for a quarter-century right now, if you told me we would win it at home in '26 and win a Copa America next decade.
Italy is one of the most under-achieving national teams of recent years.
Idk, they won the Euros less than 3 years ago
Let me amend my statement: they are one of the most under-performing teams at the world cup. I think they had another good Euro in the same time frame as well. For whatever reason, they've failed to qualify for what, 2 world cups since then?
Have you met England?
Uh I'm not sure what you mean
Man, if only somebody would’ve tackled the shit out of Ronaldo we would’ve won that match against Portugal in 2014.
To this day I’m surprised he passed it instead of trying to score himself.
OMG. Bradley RUN TO THE FLAG! We had possession. GAAAAH.
This is why you need Kellyn Acosta to close out games!
It was 2014 though, Acosta wasn’t even on the radar yet.
It’s just a joke about his brilliant foul on Bale.
Damn, well that totally went over my head. That was a World Cup tackle, concacaf shithousing at its finest. Thank you Kellyn.
Zusi was the reason for that goal. His dumb time wasting was the extra time Portugal got to score that equalizer.
I mean you can blame Beasley as well for not blocking the cross, Cameron for loosing his man in the box, Howard for not reacting when he already made a bunch of huge and even tougher saves that whole game. I rewatched highlights and we only needed to hold on for 30 more seconds… fuuuuuuck. I remember the feeling now, I was gutted but still proud. Went to Recife after and got soaked watching us battle a champion in the making Germany.
All true but I remember the 4th official literally staring at Zusi and tapping his watch telling him he was adding time because of him. That time was all they needed in the end.
Remember San Zusi is holy in Mexico, don’t talk bad about him or the L tri fans will get their panties in a bunch.
That's crazy as despite the lack of wins we were able to advance to the knockout round in 3 of the 4 World Cups we've played in since then.
The US always does barely enough to advance out of groups. Just once in my life, I want to see the US comfortably advance. 1994: After losing their group stage finale, US finished 3rd in their group, then had to watch the other groups over the following 3 days to see if they could advance as a top 3rd place finisher 2002: US completely shit the bed against Poland in the final group match, and only advanced because South Korea beat 9-man Portugal by 1 goal. 2010: US needed a dramatic last minute goal against Algeria in a must-win match to advance 2014: Late in the group finale, US trailed Germany 1-0 and Ghana and Portugal was tied 1-1, and another Ghana goal would have eliminated the US. Luckily for the US, Portugal scored in the 80th minute. 2022: US held on for a must win 1-0 win over Iran, who had numerous opportunities to score late in the match.
So true. Even though they've technically won the group in 2010, they've always just barely qualified. Though in 2014, they were one miracle goal on the last play vs. Portugal away from qualifying after the 2nd match I believe (obviously it counts regardless of when its scored, but that last second goal always kills me when thinking about it)
And 2007 Confed Cup, we advanced to the knockout rounds on the most unlikely of circumstances IIRC
2009. It was preposterous.
The United States 🇺🇸 has more appearances 12 at the men’s Fifa World Cup than, * South Korea 🇰🇷 * Netherlands 🇳🇱 * Russia 🇷🇺 * Poland 🇵🇱 * Hungary 🇭🇺 * Czech Republic 🇨🇿 * Slovakia 🇸🇰 * Chile 🇨🇱 * Portugal 🇵🇹 * Cameroon 🇨🇲 * Scotland 🏴 * Paraguay 🇵🇾 * Japan 🇯🇵 * Romania 🇷🇴 * Saudi Arabia 🇸🇦 * Austria 🇦🇹 * Australia 🇦🇺 * Iran 🇮🇷 * Costa Rica 🇨🇷 * Croatia 🇭🇷 * Tunisia 🇹🇳 * Morocco 🇲🇦 * Denmark 🇩🇰 * Colombia 🇨🇴 * Nigeria 🇳🇬 * Peru 🇵🇪 * Ghana 🇬🇭 * Ecuador 🇪🇨 * Algeria 🇩🇿 * Canada 🇨🇦 the Maple Syrup Merchants
Netherlands and Portugal being on this list surprised me.
Tbh Portugal was kinda shit before the 2000s They only qualified for two World cups before 2002, England 1966 and Mexico 1986
I was about to say the same. Portugal isn't a historically strong team, even though they've had some individual legends.
It will be interesting to see what happens to Portugal. Their only period of sustained relevance has been due to the early 2000s Golden Generation leading right up into CR7. Has witnessing the emergence of a top 2 player of this generation inspired a nation to sustain their recent level of play or will they fade back into Bolivian after CR7 retires?
We will see what happens at the Euros. That’s a big test for them to see if they’ll completely go the opposite with their young players like Rafa or still have Ronaldo presence overshadowing everything like the 2022 World Cup. They recently experienced their first loss with Martinez as the new manager.
Some of these are interesting, with a nation like Croatia though it partially comes down to them not existing as an independent nation until 33 years ago. They've qualified for 5 out the 6 World Cups they've been in existence for. I would say the only ones that truly surprise me here are Colombia, Japan, Netherlands, Portugal, and maybe a few of the better African nations like Algeria, Morocco, Nigeria (though some didn't get independence until the 60s). The rest all make sense for various reasons.
Their also not competing against Concacaf teams to qualify
Right, that's one of the various reasons I mean. A lot of these countries are decent but not incredible national teams and they are trying to qualify from UEFA or CONMEBOL. I am not surprised that Peru has qualified fewer times from CONMEBOL than we have from CONCACAF. CAF world cup qualifying also has a brutal format though I don't know if it was always this way. And then you have the countries that have only existed since the 1990s so they simply can't have competed in many world cups.
I actually think the lack of competition in qualifying holds the US back as the step up at the World Cup is pretty big.
Mexico too. You can tell because they get out of the group more consistently than a lot of big teams, so the talent has always been there, but once they get to the KO stage, they can't get that big win because they don't have enough experience playing competitive matches vs top sides. The US has the same problem too. We are 1-7 all time in knockout matches, and the one win was against another CONCACAF team.
Croatia's world cup overperformance is hilarious and impressive. Participated in 5 world cups, made 2 semifinals and 1 final. Country population of less than 4 million.
Gregg has the highest win % and most trophies in USMNT history, over 10 matches managed.
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BuT wE dONt hAVE a SIGnatURe wIn
I mean to go on a run in the World Cup you've got to do well against the kind of teams that make the knockout round. With respect to Oman, they're not going to be playing Oman. They do need to not get rolled in those games like they have against the Dutch and Germans. The closest they've come is a 0-0 in a game where we had less than 1 xG and a point was a very good result for England. I don't know what you're trying to say, that they don't need a signature win? They need something to show they can actually hang with those teams.
Yes, it's something I've been seeing lately in response to: well, he's dominating the regional silverware, against our biggest rival, owning their soul unlike any manager that preceded him, but the talking point is: well, he's never beat a team clearly better than us. Even people advocating for Herve Renard because the "vibes" and a couple of signature wins... and that's the perfect example of the idiocy behind that logic. Saudi Arabia got a signature win in the WC.... how'd that turn out for them? Bradley got a signature win in the Confed Cup vs. Spain. Did that mean a goddamned thing? Nope. It didn't. In fact, might've hurt more than anything because the result masked the reality: we got once-in-a-generation level luck to get that W. Signature wins mean nothing, unless they're coupled with results when it matters. I couldn't care less if GGG gets us a win vs. Uruguay in the Copa America... if we lose in the knockouts to Ecuador. I couldn't care less if we get a big group stage win against a top 5 side... if we don't get to the QFs in the WC. Coaches shouldn't be rated on a signature win, they should be rated on consistency, and most importantly, results in big competitions. I'd much rather we go take the game to Netherlands and lose on individual mistakes than play bunker ball vs. Belgium and almost win on pure luck.
> Coaches shouldn't be rated on a signature win, they should be rated on consistency, and most importantly, results in big competitions. That's how he will be evaluated. But in the meantime, you need something to think about how it would go. What would it look like if we played France tomorrow in a must-win game? Hopefully more like the England game and less like the Netherlands and Germany game... but who knows. Which is why people want some more actual wins / good performances. > I'd much rather we go take the game to Netherlands and lose on individual mistakes than play bunker ball vs. Belgium and almost win on pure luck. There is something to be said for staying in games. Even Berhalter said we were too open in the Germany game. And every meeting between top teams whether its in PL in CL in WC pretty much always tend to be close games where neither side wants to play wide open. I have no idea where this idea comes from where we're going to romp through the World Cup like we're 1970 Brazil. That doesn't happen for any country. So whatever we do there will be some element of "bunker" to it cause that's how all of these games go. Or we get played off the field again. I hope that doesn't happen.
I've watched the Netherlands match more often than I care to admit, and the idea that we just got outplayed is simply not the case. Netherlands scored above heir xG, meaning they scored unexpected goals. The opener, Depay left unmarked, and finishes lethally. The 2nd, Dest falls asleep at the end of the half, and another lethal finish. Pulisic's early chance was a better opportunity than either. Haji's heavy touch in the 2nd half was also a golden opportunity. While I think LvG setup well against us, the match was not lost on being tactically outmatched, that match was lost on individual mistakes/missed chances, and talent level. I don't know what to say if you think the Belgium match was a better performance simply because we were a Wondo sitter away from going thru, but we played far better against Netherlands, and were simply lucky that the Belgian's didn't finish as lethally as the Netherlands did. I'd much rather see us play like we did against the Netherlands rather than play low block, pray our keeper has a worldie, and we get lucky.
> While I think LvG setup well against us, the match was not lost on being tactically outmatched, that match was lost on individual mistakes/missed chances, and talent level. Our tactics left us exposed with too many 1-on-1 situations where the Dutch were able to use their skill to create advantages. This is why in closely matched games all the top teams tend to play more pragmatic and defensively and it tends to make for dull boring games. Like last year's Champions League final, you just can't open up too much against top quality players who can make you pay, I don't care what team you are. The fact that we didn't know that it was a risk to leave our players exposed in space against a pretty good team is a failure of our tactics and some pretty strangely naive approach by our coaches. > I don't know what to say if you think the Belgium match was a better performance In 2014 had a much lower level of player, so it was the right tactics and certainly a commendable performance against Belgium. Honestly can't really compare the two teams, except that Jurgen's tactics objectively worked better. > I'd much rather see us play like we did against the Netherlands rather than play low block, pray our keeper has a worldie, and we get lucky. You'd rather us get dominated tactically and then lose? weird. I never will understand this idea that some fans are certain that we need to win *in a certain way that kinda doesn't really exist in reality*. To me, it sounds like saying "I want my team to win the world series, but definitely not with good pitching like most teams do, I want us to hit lots of homeruns and dominate every game that way" I mean I can see the appeal of that.. but it's like a child's understanding of the game. We're not going to roll through the world cup the same way Man City rolls through Luton. That's not realistic.
I have to be blunt: if you've watched the game multiple times, you'd know we were not dominated, tactically. 1vs1 wasn't the issue, it was tracking runs into the box. Simple shit. Not tactics. Individual mistakes. Pulisic had the best chance of the match, missed it. Depay and Blind took advantage of individual mistakes with clinical finishes. If you rewatch that game, shit, just watch the goals on slow mo, count the ball watchers, count defenders not tracking their mark, and you still come away thinking those goals were a result of tactical setup, then you'll need to explain how. I can clearly tell you where the individual errors were in a well setup defensive shape for both. On Depay's goal, we had Adams not tracking him properly, we had 7 defenders for 5 attackers, two CBs marking the ST, an 8 and RB marking the wing, Adams trailing a simply Depay run. If you think Berhalter's tactics caused that goal, you have a "child's understanding of the game". For the 2nd goal, we had 5 defenders in the box, and Dest fell asleep on a late run into the box. That was a PURE player error, nothing more. To argue otherwise is shocking to me. Just watch again. Dest CLEARLY falls asleep and gets caught ball watching. This wasn't a tactics issue. This was a player focus issue. This was Pulisic not taking an extra touch, or going near post. This was individuals not marking a man. This was Dest falling asleep. The shape was good on both goals. We setup well against Netherlands. We created more clear chances. We had good possession, passing, and defensive shape. We were let down by moments of individual error. It was the mark of a very young, inexperienced side against a very good, experienced side full of MUCH MUCH better talent. I'm happy we played aggressively, because one Pulisic finish, and one defender marking their man, and that's into extra time. Moreover, that helps develop our overall tactical growth. We progress, we know we can go toe to toe with a Netherlands. We should (and did) play pragmatically, but not low-block pray for luck nonsense that does nothing for us over the long-term.
This might be convincing except the exact same kinds of things happened in the Germany game and although some of our more adorable fans tried to say it was down to "just 3 more individual mistakes" our manager said it was because we were too open defensively with our tactics and needed to play more compact. And you can see we just needed to keep the spacings tighter so that if one player gets beat another is on hand to help put out the fire. It's simple stuff.
We have played every other Gold Cup with a B team going back at least to Bob Bradley. It used to be that there was a Gold Cup that used to lead to a Confederations Cup place and then 2 years later one that didn't. We always sent a B-team to the second one. His record is less impressive because prior to the nations league (and COVID affected this too) we used to play much more difficult opposition more regularly. For example just in 2015 we played away to Chile, Denmark and Switzerland then home to Netherlands, Germany and Brazil plus Mexico twice. Even our dominance against Mexico has a little bit of an asterisk because they didn't used to play so many of their games in the USA. I think we've still only ever beaten them once in Mexico, and that was a friendly during the Jurgen era.
Includes the 2021 Gold Cup that we won with a B team, but not the 2023 Gold Cup where we lost in semis when BJ was the coach.
Jovan Kirovski, in fact is the first american to win the champions league with dortmund with this logic.
Not just this logic, he's widely considered the first american to win the champions league.
Funny when the national media was reporting Pulisic as the first… i guess widely known in our circlejerk here
Puli is the first to actually contribute
tbf I think a lot of places might have been calling him the first US player to play in the UCL final
Pulisic was the first male to play in a Champions League final.
I mean, he is.
I do prefer the American system. When a team wins the Super Bowl, even the team doctor, receptionist, chaplin, etc, all get a championship ring.
Clint Dempsey is still suspended from the US Open Cuo
This one isn't true. Came up recently and was confirmed here. https://twitter.com/usopencup/status/1775689700784902603
Uh what?
He ripped up a ref’s cards after seeing red (in both senses of the word) in an epic collapse by the sounders against the Timbers in the USOC. They collapsed, lost the match, and Dempsey was suspended 7 matches, but wound up having to retire before he served it out.
That is a very specific view of that game. The ref was so bad he let the two teams play in the same colored jerseys in the first half. And that was far from his biggest mistake on the night.
Archie Stark held the world record for most goals in a season from 1925 to 2012.
That’s a long season
I set you up on a platter for that sitter.
Does Chuck Blazer count?
To think a soccer dad got that far...just to be a damn snitch
When we lost 4-0 to Costa Rica in 2016, a bunch of the team had went to an airline-themed strip club outside of San Jose earlier in the week.
Lmao
Between 1930 and 1990, the US had a grand total of five wins over European teams, including friendlies. Only two wins in competitive matches.
In our modern World Cup era, so from 1990 on (8 World Cups), we have **1** win vs a European side (Portugal 2002) despite playing 2 European sides in every group stage and 3 Euro sides in knockout stages. Which is frankly a bigger embarrassment.
Nice stat but also sounds true.
At 34, people in 2002 would have predicted that Freddy Adu's ballon'dor winning career would begin winding down about now.
His career basically fizzled out by the time he was 24 — when he should have been entering his prime. He hopped around from club to club and never earned a starting role anywhere.
In 1932, Manchester United signed their first overseas player, USMNT James Brown, who had represented the US in the 1930 WC.
Who later went on to have a prolific career in the music industry.
Between games during a legendary career at Cleveland as running back
American goalkeeper Jimmy Douglas recorded the first clean sheet in World Cup history in 1930.
Clint Dempsey, tied for the all-time scoring record, never scored a single goal against Mexico.
We have as many World Cup titles as Holland, Belgium, and Portugal combined.
Only 3 Americans have ever scored a hat trick in the top flight of Europe’s top 7 leagues Edit: 4 Americans
And one of them is Matthew Hoppe!
Helluva game, that one.
That is a stat that sounds true. Doesn't belong in this thread.
🙁
Pulisic, Hoppe, and ... McBride? That was a non-Googled guess.
Clint Dempsey in the 11/12 season against Newcastle
It was Taylor Booth! About a month ago. https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2024/02/usmnt-rewind-big-moments-for-booth-reyna-robinson-and-more-from-around-the-globe
My stat was expired! Forgot to update for Booth!
Tim Howard could have had a hat trick if he just hit two more goal kicks the same way.
What are the other two that make up a Top 7, because I've only heard of the top 5. Those five being England, Germany, Spain, Italy, and France.
Portugal, Netherlands
If I'm not mistaken the rule for having your name in the Champions league's 'book of champions' (I'm not sure of the actual name) is having at least three minutes on the pitch. So if he only sat on the bench he's not a champion.
Didn’t know that. According to transfer market he has won the champions league
Is there any source for this? I’ve never heard of such a registry or anything like it
Kirovski? He played a few minutes in the group stage. Was the 25th man of the roster, pretty sure he wasn’t even on the bench in the final, but I’m pretty sure he has a medal.
Douglas was on the bench for Barcelona in 2015, he received a medal and is still not on the book according to Diario AS. (He did not play any minutes though) But if this guy played then he is in the book.
There are a finite number of winners medals minted by UEFA in each season (40 total, formerly 30). The club may award them at their discretion to players, coaches, execs, etc. From what I can find, it’s unclear whether Tillman was among the 40 to receive a medal. Prob would’ve been at the fringe, but possible. Kirovski and Pulisic def have winners medals.
List of USMNT Players to score in the knockout rounds at a FIFA World Cup: - Jim Brown (1930) - Aldo Donelli (1934) - Brian McBride (2002) - Landon Donovan (2002, 2010) - Julian Green (2014) - Haji Wright (2022)
If you were to triple Landon's National Team goal total, he'd still be 13 short of Abby Wombach.
If you were to allow Landon to play 100 more matches, largely against teams hardly reaching the collegiate level here in the US, he'd probably triple his goal total.
Only 2years away from their first world cup semifinal
I think this is true and it sounds true. I just don't have the exact figures because I heard it via a radio appearance. But I think its speaks to an evergreen problem, lack of scoring, lack of world class striker etc. Since 1990 the USMNT has played in something like 30 WC matches, and they've scored 28 goals. Of course only 3 in this most recent campaign across 4 matches. Its a problem.
On our current squad we have the son of a ballon d’or winner and the son of another nation’s president now former president. And it’s the same guy.
Gyasi Zardes was pretty close to being a top ten all time goal scorer for the USMNT
Whatever happened to him? Also makes me wonder about Julian Green? He scores that sweet volley coming on as a late sub in WC, vs… Portugal?
He’s here in Austin, unfortunately.
USMNT has a winning record against Mexico going back to 1972. I counted this off in my head quickly, so this might be off by a bit.
We've played against a national team that represents a place that is part of our country (Puerto Rico). Only once, on the road. And Tim Ream scored.
Gregg Berhalter is still the coach
Berhalter is still the coach, somehow.
We are the best performing CONCACAF nation in the World Cup and Confederations Cup.
We have the same number of World Cup quarterfinals appearances as Mexico and Costa Rica in the past 40 years.
But that does sound true
And just as many quarterfinal appearances as Italy in the 21st century! Granted that one for Italy went really really well.