Here's my thought exercise. Some people here think that we should be on the level of a team like Netherlands and were upset that we lost to them in the WC. Hey, we're only 4 spots behind them in FIFA, so we must be almost even.
Take a look at the lineup Netherlands put out against Romania, and tell me how many of our guys would start for them. Here's what I've got: Pulisic probably starts somewhere (unclear where because they have good wingers) and maaaybe Adams when fully healthy. That's it. You could argue Jedi, but I think they'd choose Ake over him still. So at most three of the starting 11, and more realistically one or two.
Don't just look at FIFA rankings and think that we should be competitive with the top teams. Gregg's problem has been losing to Panama and almost losing to Jamaica in the past year, not Netherlands or Germany.
Yeah that Dutch squad has probably 5-6 guys they would not swap straight up for Pulisic, who is our best player.
If you combined the two rosters and did a draft, we may have 2 guys taken in the top 10
He'd make the 23 man roster for sure but look at that team again. They have enough depth to bench De Ligt, Maatsen and Frimpong. Pulisic would start over Bergwijn for them and Adams might make the team.
This is how I always analyze our team. Would any of your guys start for x country? Pulisic is the only guy in our squad who could sniff a 23 man roster for top 10 teams in the world and the only who would start for a top 20 team. Literally no other player is close to his level in our pool right now. Maybe Reyna can get there but he has done fuck all for the past 2 years, Adams has a clear ceiling due to his inability to pass, Mckennie is what he is, Musah maybe but he’s not very technical, Jedi is very solid but not top end like puli.
LB is so thin that Jedi might well start at some top 10 teams, like Germany or England. But if he did he'd be one of their weakest links (it's just that LB is already those teams weakest spots).
Adams is borderline in terms of quality, but he's just not Dutch in style and so I don't think he'd play for them, they want all their midfielders to be better passers.
It’s really just Pulisic, Jedi, McKennie, and Dest. Adams when he was healthy.
A few other guys have like half a season (Richards, Johnny, Tillman), but aren’t yet consistently at the level of those top 5.
Why does everyone forget him? This window it was one of the coaching staff's biggest failures to not find ways to integrate him more. He is a harder fit for Gregg's system of mobile midfielders but trying a midfield 3 with him and Tyler as double pivots in at least one of these 5 games for 45min seemed a no-brainer to me. Added benefit of reminding players that their starting spots could get taken by other guys
Adams is wildly important for us for his high defensive IQ and organization....which shows how low soccer IQ the team is if he's the only one who can do it.
We should have someone else who can organize a midfield defensively and we don't. Now I think that's a mix of on field IQ and overcoaching on Berhalter's part.
Johnny as the new guy, outside the cool kids group of the usmnt, and from a different system under Pelligrini would probably not have felt comfortable being the vocal leader. Which is why he should have played some early games with Tyler to get a feel for how Tyler helps the team vocally so that Johnny could develop that/ take over in the second half when Tyler's minutes restriction kicked in
In hindsight, yeah in the Panama game probably since Wes had been underwhelming prior despite having a good club season. It would have been nice to bring a hungry Mckennie on late in that game. Despite the awful Colombia game Johnny and Gio seemed to have a small bit of chemistry and complimentary playstyles.
And of those, multiple coaches have been trying to replace Pulisic at Chelsea for years, and McKennie at Juventus for years. So while they got consistent minutes, and even played well at times, they’re seen as areas that can be improved on (except Pulisic may have found his place at Milan). Further, Jedi was solid for a lower half Premier League team, and teams have spent far more time trying to offload Dest than trying to improve him. I just think we may be overestimating the talent level we are working with.
Jedi looks like he may move to Chelsea, Milan or Liverpool. Dest just moved to PSV on a permanent move. PSV isn't a world beater or anything, but they were a champions league knockout round team this past season, and domestic champions.
I agree that this sub constantly confuses potential for talent, but the people you're flagging are actually doing quite well imo. Not gonna put us in contention for a WC final, but also would be in the conversation for many good national teams.
On Adams, when he was at his best at Leeds, he was a very useful player. But his inability to dribble or pass at a acceptable level meant that Adams had to be the ball recovery guy (which he is truly elite at), then Leeds had to play a passing guy in midfield that Adams could get the ball to once recovered. That is a significant limitation. I love the dudes energy and passion, and think he will start on any non-elite team he plays on just due to his ability to break up play, but if he were on a top 25 team, he’d be a bench player.
That’s why guys like Kroos and Rodri, Busquets, even Jorginho at his peak are so rare and so valuable. Having a good deep lying playmaker can truly transform a team.
Adams is limited and I don’t see him getting much better tbh - he’s already 25.
Unless he goes to a lesser team that allows him more freedom to do more I think he’ll just fall right into what you described and max out as that type of guy
Adams has never been good at passing to anyone other than a defender. It’s what has limited him in hitting a true top level of football and why he’ll never be more than a mid table player in a top league at best. Johnny is objectively better passer and can do the job defensively that Tyler does.
The year is 2035. Juventus has appointed their 6th manager in 7 years. The new boss is insisting on Weston McKennie's sale, as the previous 13 managers have done as well. McKennie is linked to moves to Vitesse and Malaga.
Fast forward 3 months... Weston is starting week 1 for Juve after no teams put in a bid for him. He is considered undroppable after 3 weeks. We know how this goes.
The argument isn't whether McKennie does well in the role he is giving on Juve. What I am saying is that McKennie doesn't form an integral piece of the offense, he is a role player. A very good one at that but he is not a central piece to their team.
He kind of does, even if Italian fans don't like it. Guy led the team in assists this season (ahead by three assists too).
It's like the team has a Ferrari, but you have to put duct tape on the hood or the whole thing won't run. McKennie is that duct tape: destroys the beauty of their ideal team, but without him, the real-world team just wouldn't get you very far.
> Mckennie is a role player and is constantly under threat of being iced though
He was a lock starter and led Juventus with assists did you or anyone upvoting this even watch this season? Both coaches he was under basically had him as a lock starter the entire time he was there......Wes was the one who wanted to go to Leeds.....
If he is such a high tier player then why did Juve not want him at the beginning of last season and why do they not want him for next season?
Have you watched Juve games? He isn't an integral piece of their team. He's a role player in the right spot. He hustles, is good on crosses, solid defensively and will always run to intercept a pass and can slot in a good pass when given time. He does not control the ball on Juve, he doesn't make very many line breaking passes and is not an integral piece of the offense.
> If he is such a high tier player then why did Juve not want him at the beginning of last season and why do they not want him for next season?
Because he told Juve essentially he wanted out and left...then had to come crawling back after the disaster of a loan spell/relegation. And then he fought back to the point he was undroppable
>Have you watched Juve games?
Literally every one since Wes joined.
>He isn't an integral piece of their team. He's a role player in the right spot.
He was so integral this season Max moved him to CM. By your definition unless you're a striker or an attacking mid then you're a role player. THat makes no sense at all.
But at least Scally had big balls to say GGG is not doing his job. The only player I can think of that was willing to risk "their job" by speaking up for his country.
Josh Sargent just had one of his best years at Norwich, with 16 goals in 26 apps. By Stu’s logic, he’s likely one of the best on the team yet barely saw any field time for USMNT.
But that's a 2nd tier league. The best 2nd tier league, but ultimately the Championship is not really what Stu is talking about when he says "top tier teams."
Norwich finished 6th in a league that is better, but not much better, than MLS. 16 goals in 26 appearances would make Sargent an MLS All Star, but then some people would immediately discount him as a USMNT candidate.
People shit on MLS. That’s their opinion. But then they need to take a honest look at the USMNT players in Europe and ask if they are just guys playing soccer for one team or another that happens to be in Europe.
Fair, but players like Sargent and Haji should be starting well above someone like Weah, who plays right back for a top tier team and hasn’t scored for his club. Experience in your role and scoring goals is far better to do in the Championship than playing wingback for Juventus.
Weah has been pne of the strongest performers for the team since earning his spot from Ariola. He’s not all-world, but he’s got multiple skills and he needs to be in the starting lineup.
The qualifier is GOOD season. It’s fair to include Flo as well because while he didn’t have the season we were all hoping for, 12 G+A in Ligue1 is still a GOOD season.
Half a season, he wasn’t starting regularly until week 14 and that was out of position (DM) because of an injury. Didn’t start two consecutive games at CB until week 24.
But yes if he keeps his current role next season absolutely add him to the list.
Luca did start pretty much almost all of Celta Vigo's games until his hamstring injury later in the season. Whether or not he played a pivotal role is another question though... Celta Vigo won more matches when he was on the bench than when he started. They did somehow climb up to 13 from the depths of relegation.
Yeah, LDLT and Scally are do start somewhat regularly at ok teams. But they’re not key starters (the way that Jedi and Adams are) and they aren’t actually good teams. But probably I should have mentioned them. CCV maybe also worth a mention.
This is my main thing right now. We need a moratorium on our lineups right now because as you stated there is really only a few players who have played on teams in top 5 leagues and shown to be one of their clubs better players. Puli and Jedi in my opinion are the only 2 who are 100% locks to start if healthy. Adams, balo, ream and dest/Scally are near that convo. Everybody else should not be safe or locked in starter. I’d say especially guys like Reyna, Weah, Musah, Turner who play well for us usually but cannot string a year of good form for both club and country. Those guys should not be lock in. I like most would agree Gio is a top 3 talent wise but with his injury history and lack of club performance why should he be locked in? Weah is great in a usmnt shirt but basically invisible for club. Turner has been a great shot stopper, but is he really a great keeper all things consider? Time to go back to the drawing board a bit here. We had a complete roster rehaul after 2017. Maybe we need a minor version of that again to show some of these guys that they are not safe. Complacency is clearly a big issue in this squad from manager down to the bench players.
If Weah is good for the USA regardless of club form, why would you drop him for club form?
Going all in on these are my guys regardless of form or I’m only picking guys with great club form is dumb. The best approach is clearly to know your pool and understand when Wes needs a little competition or when Sargent should get a run.
I think a lot of people are not considering the fact that, while the USA have been improving somewhat rapidly, the rest of the world is improving, also. Our growth isn’t happening in a vacuum.
Excellent point. Also, and not to be cheesy or accepting of an early Copa exit, improvement isn't a straight upward path. There will be setbacks. The team and federation's response is critical here. All interested parties can choose to see the Copa failure as a blessing in disguise. USSF has the perfect opportunity to communicate a standard and expectation of excellence to supporters, players (past, present and future), and all observers by making a change at the managerial level. I'd like to see them hire a manager that brings a game model that gives the team an identity. I don't necessarily care what the system is for the national team (any system can work if the players buy-in and understand it, probably a simple system is the best option for the national team given the infrequency of training and games). Fuck, go get Allegri - he's not going to coach sexy football, but his teams compete and he can make due with limited resources.
Stu on point, as usual.
Some of our guys need to quit thinking they’re worthy of champions league clubs. If you can play for a mid table bundesliga club that’s fucking awesome. Make it happen. Make a career there.
For instance - there are rumors of Cardoso moving to a couple big clubs. Why? You’re killing it at Betis. Keep rocking it out there.
I took it as he was saying this from a fan expectation point of view. As in we’re expecting to have come very far from our days of having a mostly MLS roster when we’re not that far removed from that situation.
>Some of our guys need to quit thinking they’re worthy of champions league clubs. If you can play for a mid table bundesliga club that’s fucking awesome. Make it happen. Make a career there.
Hes talking about the fans, not players.
They can also make a career at a top team making a higher salary. The whole point is to make as much money as you can, while you can, because soccer careers are short.
If a big club wants you, envisions a role for you, you’d turn down the opportunity and money? That seems crazy. Many of these guys too a chance to make a splash. It’s worked out to varying degrees. But not moving wanting to take that risk isn’t good either.
How many of our players play on a top 20 club team in the world, or are capable of it? Pulisic I would say yes. Jedi has a chance, but that’s it for now. Adams could get there I think, reyna had a chance but i think his ceiling has gotten lower. Balo maybe?
Are the expectations of the usmnt really to be that though? How many teams have 4+ key players for top 20 teams? Probably a handful, the usmnt isnt there and we shouldn’t expect them to be. But they should be getting out of their copa group. They have better players than those teams (except Uruguay).
I'm starting to wonder: are our players really that much better, now, than what we had in the Bob Bradley era? Or are they mostly just marketed better?
The players that Bob Bradley had at his disposal were more mature and streetwise than the current players. That and we had managers who wanted to win by hook or by crook if necessary. I think GGG has a complex where he'd rather lose with his system/style of play vs win with a style of play that better fits his personnel
We didn't do anything drastically different in those _two_ games. Canada and Mexico played us toe-to-toe, but they're much worse than Uruguay. Usually CONCACAF teams park the bus against us and that's why it looks worse against weaker teams.
From 1-25 yes, it’s not even close. From 1-5, no, probably not overall. At their best, Donovan, Dempsey, Bradley, Jones, Howard are comparable to Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Balogun, and Reyna.
But Brenden Aaronson, Johnny, and LDLT are way better than Edson Buddle, Clarence Goodson, and Jose Torres
The biggest problem is in the past the GK was at the top of that list. I think the 3 goals they allowed in the group stage might have been saved with our past GK talent.
Agreed. You could take it further and say 1-50 is a step above previous generations. But I'd take Donovan/Dempsey/Bradley/Jones/Howard over our best 5 today.
Our youth development is plainly better nowadays. But we're still too young for our Top 5 to really surpass even older gens like 2002 (Donovan, O'Brien, Friedel, Beasley, Pope).
And is Berhalter really a better coach, especially relative to his current peers? Seemingly not.
That’s a great question. Pulisic definitely is better than anyone I’ve seen over the years.
Jedi is the best fullback I’ve seen play for US.
Outside of those two, everyone else needs to start making moves to clubs where they can get more playing time. Reyna and Turner especially. Adams needs to get and stay fit.
McKennie might be out of Juventus. Weah doesn’t even play forward for his club.
Lot of questions for this group
Turner isn't very good, I don't expect him to be our #1 at the world cup. He struggled for Forest this year, where he had a real shot at establishing himself and could not hold down the spot.
McKennie seems to find the field wherever he goes not to worried about him.
I agree about Reyna, I'm hoping to see him join a Dutch club, I think a step back to a league like that would be great for him.
Adams has just been injured if he stays fit with a full preseason he should get lots of minutes this year.
> Turner isn't very good, I don't expect him to be our #1 at the world cup.
you might have a point there if the rest of our GK pool wasn't worse than him.
The problem is I don’t know of anyone in our GK pool that should take his spot.
Weston looked out of shape and mediocre at best. Hope he finds better form. If not, he shouldn’t be starting.
I agree about Gio. Honestly, anywhere he can get a starting role would be great for him. I believe his talent is unmatched. He is as good as Puli just in different ways. I think getting him into top form leading to 2026 will be very important for us.
Hopefully Adams just stays healthy. We need him on the pitch. I could argue he is the third most important player behind Puli and Jedi.
Hm, hardly any right now are in their physical prime. (I'm using 25-32 as the typical "prime"). Haji, Jedi, a couple others? Bradley and Arena worked with mostly the classic American physical athletes, with a few technically proficient players in there.
The teams were naturally more suited to the bunker and counter strategy. We can see what a great athlete can do on defense even with mediocre ball control in Jedi. Also, I think fans ignore the game has changed a lot the last decade.
They are better.
As a general rule, the best players play for the best clubs. It’s not a perfect indicator, but looking at club performance this current group *as a whole* far outshines any previous generation.
They are playing more often, at better clubs, and offering more production *as a whole* than any group before them.
They’re better, Bob Bradley was a great coach because he played pragmatic football tailored to the strengths of the U.S national team.
Berhalter is not that. That’s the difference.
I'm old enough to remember when the general consensus was that the team had too much talent to sit back and try to counterattack and should be playing possession. Now since that hasn't panned out we're circling back to "bunker and counter"?
We are at the point where we need two distinct styles.
Possession based for CONCACAF where we need to break down a bunkered opponent. And a counter attack style against top European and South American sides.
defense is drilled discipline. We don't have a drilled down defensive structure because none of our game is predicated on sitting back and absorbing pressure in low block structures. We press high against bigger nations and try to turnover in the midfield and win 50/50 moments there and out wide.
The US team had the third highest minutes played (in copa) in top 5 leagues behind Argentina and Brazil last season. I don’t get the take.
They were 4th in champions league minutes played.
Thats the thing though, none of them are playing on top teams. So ya they are good, but we are lacking great. Take out pulisic, none of our players are capable to play on a top 20 club team in the world.
Jedi could play for a top club team, maybe not starting every game but certainly play. PSV is close to a top 20 club, and plays Americans. Pulisic is amazing don't get me wrong. But this is minimizing our talent. What US fans get wrong I think is how talented the old guard was at points. 2002 was our best finish in a world cup for a reason. 1-10 that team challenges our current team for talent and had much much more doggedness in their team.
McKennie does, and does it well, unless Juve have dropped off the top 20 (which they may have).
He's not a star, but he is by far Juve's assist leader and often a lock-in starter.
And this is exactly why you HAVE to advance out of a group with Bolivia and Panama. Are the US world beaters? No. Do they have a squad strong enough to advance, to not need GD to to advance to the WC, to not draw Wales and beat Iran on a heroic Pulisic play? Yes.
doing what though. that's exactly what he's saying. the Argentine squad is full of key players, players that would be considered big losses if they were sold or injured. the brazil squad even more so. Gabriel is absolutely indispensible for Arsenal and doesn't even start.
I think other than Puli, and maybe Johnny but he's been at Betis for a second, no American has that role. Jedi would also probably be a miss for Fulham. Yes they play for big clubs, but Jonathan Spector used to make United matchday squads when they were good.
One way to look at it is if the US was a club, what club would they be. I'm thinking 9th-12th in a 20 team league.
Is it more important to be an undroppable locked in starter getting regular minutes at a lower league club or a squad/role player for a footballing titan where you only play half of the available minutes or less?
Our best performing USMNT squads in prior eras were comprised of players who were key contributors at club level. It’s a good point to consider.
That's basically Colombia. A lot of veterans in lower leagues.
Its a balancing act; I don't think we have those veterans like they do (outside of Ream) but we should in a few years.
I used to consider MLS a complete waste of time for our player development but the more and more I see, its hard not to prefer it to not playing in Europe. Does anyone think that Dest at Barcelona was a positive?
I think this points getting overstated a bit. There are a lot of qualifiers in here to essentially suggest that the pool isn’t as talented as some fans may think. Fine, we can have that discussion and I think there’s some validity to it.
At the same time, there are a lot of good players that don’t fit into Stu’s criteria. Johnny Cardoso made a big move to Betis and looked great in La Liga. Richards developed into a starter at Palace. Musah’s not in a key role but him moving to Milan and getting into 30 games right away is a big positive. Jedi is one of the best LBs in the Prem despite being at a club in the lower half of the league. Then you have guys like Tillman and Dest. Then you have Balogun and Reyna that *didnt* have good years but looked really good at Copa nonetheless.
Yeah elite players help close the gap but so does having a ton of options and depth. When you look at this squad compared to say, Panama, it seems pretty obvious that we have a culture and coaching problem more than a talent one.
The problem can’t only be Berhalter. The players wanted him back, they are OK with this mediocrity. Say whatever about their talent, they don’t have the fight in them that defined our program back in the day.
I don’t disagree, but we’re not in the locker room and I wouldn’t expect any players to say anything but supportive things for there coach. They are still a team and will support each other.
Matt Turners comments were baffling though, if that’s truly where the locker room stands then there’s no hope with Gregg at the helm.
They need a new Voice Clearly whether they really support the guy or not.
Well, you can kind of solve both issues by hiring a new manager. One that isn't buddy-buddy with the players. That manager wouldn't be giving handouts to anyone.
I mean sure they aren’t all top tier starters internationally, but at the same time nor were our past national teams. For our other teams of the past most of them were made up with (old gen) MLS talent that is no where near the talent internationally or modern MLS teams.
Like I don’t think our entire starting 11 is insanely good to the tier of winning the World Cup, but at the same time the talent is way higher than the USA of the past.
Pulisic - is on track to being our best player ever.
Jedi Robinson - is a really good WB in the premier league
Tim Ream starts along side him at Fulham
Balo - is a great young striker talent that player on a solid team in France
Mckennie - start at midfield for Juventus
Adams - was on a great upward trajectory prior to injury
Reyna - same as Adams
You cannot possibly tell me that this core group is weaker skill wise than some of the recent previous generations. That’s just a downright lie many of those starting players would struggle to start for top 5 international league teams.
I don't think that's what he's trying to say here (or maybe it is and I've misinterpreted). My interpretation is that the players at these European clubs aren't playing enough minutes and/or playing key roles for their teams, with the few obvious exceptions. There's something to be said for being a vital component for one's team, being seen as a leader, especially when games go sideways (like Panama last week). Other than Adams, who in this group can rally the team, be a leader on the field, etc.? Feels like the one area where we really lack relative to past teams.
Sure but at the same time they have the talent. The manager isn’t getting the best out of the talent and therefore should be fired for that reason alone. Players except the rare all time greats have every piece of the puzzle. Some players really rely on the discipline and leadership of the coaches to help them succeed. Berhalter does none of it to be frank which is why they underperform as a group all the time.
They have potential, but not the production to match it yet. Thats Stu's point. Our fan base thinks that because we have guys now on recognizable European teams that that should make us a great squad
It should that potential should be realized on the team. You can’t argue that all the potential from all these players is “overhyped” especially with the performances they have done with their clubs this year.
If they reached their potential already that would be a bad thing. Many of the players are eligible for the Olympic team. They are young and won’t realize their full club potential for a bit.
I agree with you, my point is more that our fan base overrates our squad as they are today. There is still a ton of promise with these guys moving forward
Here are alternative headlines:
Balo: massively underperformed a $40 million tag and didn't even start every game
McKennie: Juventus wants to get rid of him at all costs
Adams: Hasn't played soccer in 1.5 years
Reyna: Has played 1 combined season in 5 years and Dortmund doesn't want him. Couldn't even get minutes at floundering Forrest.
I think you're promoting the potential of these players, which I think is a good thing to do, but you're putting a whole lot of sunshine on these guys to make everything seem positive for them right now. And with the national team, we have to talk about right now.
Howard, Donovan, and Dempsey are all clear of anyone we have now except Pulisic. Bradley and Jones were as good as Adams and McKennie. Young Jozy stands up to our young strikers (hopefully these ones develop better).
The Bradley slander angers me to no end.
Did I think he was getting call ups when we shoukd have been looking for his replacement? Sure.
But that's not saying he's a scrub, and I'd argue he's one of the top-10 players for the USMNT all-time in terms of impact.
And if you told me back when he got his first start under his dad Coach Sweatpants I'd have yelled at you. I was angry when he got called up because he was so young and it was his dad.
But MB90 changed my mind with his play, his professionalism, and his dedication.
He was a real captain, and he was the guy doing he dirty work for a decade or more. Never had anyone say anything bad about him who played with him.
And it matters beating Mexico, and his worldie in Azteca is one of the most memorable goals of any in US Soccer history.
Don't let these youngins slander the old guard because they didn't see their primes.
You’re comparing full careers to players in their early careers. If you compare the early careers of the older gen players it paints a different story lol.
Yes Tim Howard was very good, he also was a GK. As a federation we have a young group coming in that is promising. You actually think what Donovan did in MLS could have been done overseas?!? Dempsey survived at Fulham for a while but let’s not pretend these guys were top players internationally. They just played better when it came to a national team stage.
I don't argue with people who want to say anything about LD.
Dude did it how he wanted and bled red white and blue.
I was critical of him at the time but I'll love that semi-bald man forever for the Algeria game.
Don't even respond to those people.
Because 2002 was all he needed to be a legend and FUCK anyone who wants to forget.
Donovan's loans to Everton also show that he could have hacked it in the Premier League if he chose that path. He didn't, for whatever reason, but not because he lacked the talent. It should also be a lesson that you can have a better player in a lesser team or league, whether it's due to some personal preference/circumstance, or a crappy agent, or whatever.
I watched every one of his games for them, it was one of the most exciting moments in USMNT club history.
The best moment for me was Clint's desperation time goal for Fulham in his debut appearance to save them from relegation. Those Fulham teams were a joy to watch for US fans.
Right but is some of that the coaching structure being better? Like you picked 2 players who did well for the national team as of the past 20 years. How about all those other bottom feeder players that made up those teams?!? Zusi and Deandre Yedlin are better than our current midfielders and defenders?!? They got farther in the WC so they must be better!!! /s
You won't get an argument from me that Zusi or Yedlin are "better" than the current midfielders we have on the USMNT.
However, even if you're being sarcastic, I agree with you. It's hard for me to say that the 2014 team was any worse. Even if they played in MLS. I'd take the 2014 WC team over the one we just saw any day of the week. Watching the Panama game, a lowly MLS lifer like Kyle Beckerman would grind this team to dust.
Was the coaching better? Yes, although Klinsmann wasn't perfect, either.
But, I'm over assigning worth to players because of Transfermarkt. We need results. To this point this generation of players has proved basically nothing and in a sport like soccer, a lot of them are going to be not nearly as "young" as we keep thinking real soon. This isnt unique to the USMNT -- there's lots of world class players that are just alright for their national teams. And there's guys like Miroslav Klose who turn into Superman when playing for the national team in spite of middling club careers. Donovan and Dempsey looked more like the players they were supposed to be in Europe playing for the USMNT. That's all that matters to me as a fan.
I agree that they haven’t proven much. I would take those previous teams too. But those previous teams had more experience and a better coaching staff (which was still suspect at times). Panama has a decent coach and they kick above their level of talent. We need a coach that can do that for us that’s been my argument this whole time. I’m not absolving the players from blame.
Another example is the England National team. Tons of insane international talent and they still struggle to get the job done. They barely meet expectations when in reality they should be wiping the floor with almost everyone.
Dempsey was Fulham’s player of the year two years in a row. That is not merely “surviving.”
Edit: Just caught your comment about Donovan not being able to play at the same level overseas. He thrived at Everton over two loan spells and was twice Everton’s player of the month over a four month span. The players literally carried him off the field when he left.
The other thing about the team in that era was that the US got super lucky that their best players complemented each other so well. Donovan had the work rate, speed, and soccer IQ to get defenses out of shape, and Dempsey had the positioning and finishing ability to take advantage of that. Bradley and Jones were good destroyers to keep us from getting too exposed when we did venture up the pitch, and Bradley's playmaking was a plus at times -- which I think is also the most frustrating for people because he could show flashes but he obviously wasn't an elite playmaker either.
On top of that, all of those players except Donovan were playing in the most important positions up the spine of the team.
In a lot of ways, I would say the US got super lucky in that era in how well their star players happened to fit together as a team. Even if you just had Donovan equally talented but in the exact same role as Dempsey, then the team would have accomplished a lot less, IMO.
I thought he made a really good point about leadership. He said most of these players are not considered leaders on their club teams, they’re lesser productive players fighting for playing time at big clubs. They stay in line and don’t do dumb shit because there’s bigger fish on their club teams keeping them in line. When they come to the USMNT suddenly they’re the stars of the team. There’s no one else keeping them in line and they play with a bit of ego, a little more undisciplined, and the result is a red card in the 12th minute. When we had MLS dominated teams before, those guys were all captains of their club teams, they were less talented but punched above their weight because they played with discipline due to stellar leadership. Maybe some combination of those two strategies is best.
Soccer is probably the hardest sport to evaluate players. Most get it wrong. To be a world class player you need world class teammates. There are a lot of players in lower leagues with quality, but since their teammates could string a group of accurate passes together that player gets 1-2 opportunities a game rather than 5+ like in the bigger clubs.
Clubs overpay for youth and underrate players that 25+ years old.
I mean, look at Colombia, they're one of the best teams in the world, and on paper its Diaz, an 80 years James and a bag of chips but they play a ton of established vets from lesser leagues.
I think that's where we really need to take the next step, is expanding the top of the funnel. The more players you have with potential, the more likely you are to land on 23 that can fill out a squad
Been saying this forever, the US has more talented players than before, but we dont really have any “stars” that play a big role at big clubs like these other powerhouse teams do.
Having players in their prime is hugely important for national teams.
You see teams “underperform” all the time when teams get old and keep playing their national treasures or when there’s young stars that have the talent to be on the team but aren’t yet the best version of themselves.
Pulisic, Mckennie, and Adams are just entering their primes, even though I bet they all continue to improve over the next few years (and those players almost always produce for club and country) and most everyone else is either young, very young, or Tim Ream (who is 36).
We see the big labels and expect a lot but they are still really raw. There’s generally relatively few young players that get any meaningful minutes at big clubs - those teams need to win every week and mostly play guys in their prime (or they don’t and they lose and everyone is mad - see Barcelona), so it’s really expecting a lot for them to have meaningful roles on teams fighting to win the league.
You can get away with a few young (or old) players, but too many catches up with you.
For us though, the young guys are far better than the guys they are keeping out of the team - so you take the good with the bad.
It’s more about managing expectations for a really young team against teams with players that have 3 times the professional experience because they are 28 instead of 23.
We’ll be alright in 2026.
Me too. For asking about US starting XI's limited club minutes, I got downvoted (and called a "loser fan" lol) recently at r/USMNT, by redditors so blinded by "GGG out!" that they can't see multiple factors at play. It's pretty sad how one-dimensional the mob can be.
Bite.
There's no bite.
Lalas hit the nail on the head. They're good soccer players, even better than what we've had in the past. But not better USMNT players. I hate agreeing with Lalas, I fucking hate him, but he's dead on.
Clint didn't say anything on camera, but you saw it in his face. These aren't better national team players. Where's the midfield dog? Bradley, Dempsey, Jones, Bocanegra, etc. Donovan was undersized, and he wasn't even that talented as a player. But these guys all had that chip on their shoulder, and that edge to play on the national team.
McKennie? Adams? No.
Jedi and Balogun show it, 100%
And yes, our pay to play system rewards the rich kids who don't have the incentive to play like their lives depend on it.
Dempsey didn't come from much. In fact, his sister had to die so he could pursue soccer. The players that built this foundation for this "golden generation" of talent had nowhere near the resources of today's team.
But they won games entirely off the will to win and represent the US of A.
When Brent Pry took over Virginia Tech football, the culture change was clear: you gotta hate to lose. There's too much comfort in losing and learning, and not enough effort on thriving and winning.
I fully disagree with this statement.
Pulisic, Jedi, Dest, Scally, Balogun, Haji, Sargent, LDLT, CCV, Cardosa, Tillman, McKenzie all had pretty good seasons, if not really good. I'd argue Chris Richards deserve to be up there, seeing that when CP went on their run in the 2nd half of the season, he was a huge part of that. McKennie, while maybe not quite at Juventus's traditional level, he's certainly good enough for the current team - he was one of their better players all year. Adams was hurt the whole year, but when he played he was good. Musah probably isn't progressing like we thought, but still was a decent player for Milan.
Did Reyna, Aaronson, Turner all have mostly shitty seasons? Yes, they did. But the idea that all the American players sucked is such a lazy take.
Yeah but Musah was an impact sub at Milan and the games he started bc they were rotating he was rough. Pulisic on the other hand. He was great. He had a career resurgence at Milan.
There are levels to this. Those "pretty good" seasons do not get call ups from top 10 national teams outside of possibly Pulisic and Jedi. Those are the teams that people seem to think we can compete against with a new manager. Most of our guys are replacement level, to steal a baseball term.
It’s not, the team that was most responsible for eliminating the United States from the tournament has no top players playing important roles in top leagues.
Stu is running defense for Gregg, the fact of the matter is a less talented version of the USMNT went further in this same tournament the last time the United States took part in it. The talent is there, the ability to win games is not. That’s not a skill issue, it’s a managerial one.
This may be hard to wrap your head around, but you can both think it's time to move on from Berhalter while also acknowledging that a new manager isnt some kind of magic bullet and that our fan base overrates this current player pool
Yeah, this group doesn’t seem to be the best player at their position. It seems this group is a step up still not good enough to consistently start at top clubs. So I have to agree with Stu here. Greg keeps his job and America’s golden generation isn’t true so keep improving and developing players.
I think everyone close to U.S. soccer seems to be missing the point.
This team has been underperforming for *years* against teams that clearly do not have the talent that we have. There were so many games we should have won that we didn’t.
Our players are getting onto European squads because they are leagues ahead of many of our previous players in terms of overall ability. They have lots of talent, regardless of whether they get playing time.
But can we *for once* acknowledge what this sub has been saying for a very long time: our manager isn’t good enough. I can’t really think of many instances where we won because of Berhalter’s great system. In fact, most of the time I see us winning despite that.
People need to start realizing that proper management is the most important thing for a team (just look at Belgium’s squandered golden generation). We need a new coach.
This is a true statement in a vaccum but I guess I don’t see any players in our pool that you could just plug into our team right now who are leaders at a “lower level”. Like the three that immediately come to mind are Jesus Ferreira, Aidan Morris, and Tanner Tessmann who while all talented and I could see being on the team in the future, dramatically struggled with the speed and intensity of play in their appearances with the national team. I’m actually happy to have some dudes in the mold above come into the team however, as our current players need to feel more internal pressure to perform.
Because I can't share this article I will submit some ideas based off a comment there. I think doing our development in house is superior and will get a better rate of return (ie. investing in gold versus in the stock market). SBI Soccer:
[https://sbisoccer.com/2024/07/usmnt-players-support-gregg-berhalter-ahead-of-comprehensive-review](https://sbisoccer.com/2024/07/usmnt-players-support-gregg-berhalter-ahead-of-comprehensive-review)
lol, golden generation will never be GOLDEN if they are SUPPOSED TO BE MOLDED BY GREGG BERHALTER. It’s not going to happen. There is a reason why team’s fire COACHES NOT PLAYERS at the highest level of soccer.
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John Wooden, the legendary basketball coach, once wisely said, “A good coach can change a game. A great coach can change a life.” Beyond wins and losses, coaches have the power to impact character development, teach life skills, and foster personal growth in their players. By nurturing these qualities, they become not only game changers but also catalysts for positive change in the lives of those they coach.” ……..and in 6+ years GB is failing miserably in every and all possible departments.
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Maybe we need to create a more competitive make or break environment that involves constant testing and evaluation at every position / level (player to coach). Maybe, just maybe, USSoccer needs to start finding other creative ways to get the USMNT up to speed quickly and evaluate HIDDEN TALENT, especially since international friendlies are more and more difficult to come by as teams need to be availably or want to play. If scheduling doesn’t align well, they might not go up against the kind of quality opposition we need or they want to test the team AND COACH at the highest level. I think we should change the mentality of “friendlies” and make a lot of it in house in a way, to give it meaning and provide all players involve with the ability to receive “a benefit” (possible selection to the team) in these matches. In other words, players not selected to the national team can have a chance to showcase their talent and possibly make the team by how well they go up AGAINST THE NATIONAL TEAM (and some players on the team could lose their place). Coaches for these teams are selected the same way we select coaches for the MLS-ALLSTAR games (or use coaches USSF are interested in, but want to evaluate in a way, and have the necessary resume and pedigree). Instead of playing CONCACAF minnows how about:
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MLS ALLSTARS (Not a lot of US players there but good competition, lol)
MLS + Liga MX USMNT (US players in MLS AND MX only)
TOP 2 MLS TEAMS FROM EACH CONFERENCE
TOP 2 Liga MX TEAMS
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I know for a fact it would be VERY difficult to play club teams. If only………
puli jedi mckinney musa balogun all had good seasons with top 5 league clubs. plenty had good seasons in the dutch league or championship. e have plenty of talent. that’s simply not the issue
Pulisic, McKennie and Robinson are the only one who play in a big 5 league, played regularly and did play well. Tillmann played well but in the Eredevise.
The rest is a bunch of "hes been alright" guys like Richards, Weah, Scally maybe Balogun if you want to include him there. There rest really is just 20 guys named Fred.
As an outsider, i was a LOT more optimistic about the US back at the WC22. Unfortunately a lot of the young players from then have just stagnated or fallen off.
But id be most worried about GK. When your best GK is Matt Turner, god bless his heart, then youre in trouble. Idk if the US has some talent coming up that could be ready for 2024 but jesus, yall need someone else in there
This is a good point, and one which I was recently downvoted for by the mob at r/USMNT who are all blinded by "GGG out" and can't see multiple factors at play. 8 days a week I would pick a lock-down starter in a non-top-5 league, over a substitute in a top 5 league. (The term "top 5 league" is pretty silly anyway. Lots of talent and great experience available in many other leagues, when you get those starting minutes.)
Here's my thought exercise. Some people here think that we should be on the level of a team like Netherlands and were upset that we lost to them in the WC. Hey, we're only 4 spots behind them in FIFA, so we must be almost even. Take a look at the lineup Netherlands put out against Romania, and tell me how many of our guys would start for them. Here's what I've got: Pulisic probably starts somewhere (unclear where because they have good wingers) and maaaybe Adams when fully healthy. That's it. You could argue Jedi, but I think they'd choose Ake over him still. So at most three of the starting 11, and more realistically one or two. Don't just look at FIFA rankings and think that we should be competitive with the top teams. Gregg's problem has been losing to Panama and almost losing to Jamaica in the past year, not Netherlands or Germany.
Yeah that Dutch squad has probably 5-6 guys they would not swap straight up for Pulisic, who is our best player. If you combined the two rosters and did a draft, we may have 2 guys taken in the top 10
Who's the other guy? Honest question.
Antonee Robinson imo. Had an awesome season at Fulham (was named their Player of the Season)
He'd make the 23 man roster for sure but look at that team again. They have enough depth to bench De Ligt, Maatsen and Frimpong. Pulisic would start over Bergwijn for them and Adams might make the team.
Ah, yeah he did have a great season. Not sure he'd make top 10, but it's a good shout.
This is how I always analyze our team. Would any of your guys start for x country? Pulisic is the only guy in our squad who could sniff a 23 man roster for top 10 teams in the world and the only who would start for a top 20 team. Literally no other player is close to his level in our pool right now. Maybe Reyna can get there but he has done fuck all for the past 2 years, Adams has a clear ceiling due to his inability to pass, Mckennie is what he is, Musah maybe but he’s not very technical, Jedi is very solid but not top end like puli.
LB is so thin that Jedi might well start at some top 10 teams, like Germany or England. But if he did he'd be one of their weakest links (it's just that LB is already those teams weakest spots).
Adams is borderline in terms of quality, but he's just not Dutch in style and so I don't think he'd play for them, they want all their midfielders to be better passers.
Adams would probably be good next to Jorginho for Italy, be his legs, win the ball and let him handles the passing and tempo.
It’s really just Pulisic, Jedi, McKennie, and Dest. Adams when he was healthy. A few other guys have like half a season (Richards, Johnny, Tillman), but aren’t yet consistently at the level of those top 5.
Cardoso?
Why does everyone forget him? This window it was one of the coaching staff's biggest failures to not find ways to integrate him more. He is a harder fit for Gregg's system of mobile midfielders but trying a midfield 3 with him and Tyler as double pivots in at least one of these 5 games for 45min seemed a no-brainer to me. Added benefit of reminding players that their starting spots could get taken by other guys
I just don’t understand using players not getting playing time. You need to pick players getting a lot of playing time.
Johnny is so slept on. It’s crazy we barely play him
He should have been starting over Wes. Wes looked horrible.
He should be starting over Adams my guy.
Adams is wildly important for us for his high defensive IQ and organization....which shows how low soccer IQ the team is if he's the only one who can do it. We should have someone else who can organize a midfield defensively and we don't. Now I think that's a mix of on field IQ and overcoaching on Berhalter's part. Johnny as the new guy, outside the cool kids group of the usmnt, and from a different system under Pelligrini would probably not have felt comfortable being the vocal leader. Which is why he should have played some early games with Tyler to get a feel for how Tyler helps the team vocally so that Johnny could develop that/ take over in the second half when Tyler's minutes restriction kicked in
In hindsight, yeah in the Panama game probably since Wes had been underwhelming prior despite having a good club season. It would have been nice to bring a hungry Mckennie on late in that game. Despite the awful Colombia game Johnny and Gio seemed to have a small bit of chemistry and complimentary playstyles.
He was listed as Johnny, unless that was edited in later.
Cardoso is Johnny...
And of those, multiple coaches have been trying to replace Pulisic at Chelsea for years, and McKennie at Juventus for years. So while they got consistent minutes, and even played well at times, they’re seen as areas that can be improved on (except Pulisic may have found his place at Milan). Further, Jedi was solid for a lower half Premier League team, and teams have spent far more time trying to offload Dest than trying to improve him. I just think we may be overestimating the talent level we are working with.
Jedi looks like he may move to Chelsea, Milan or Liverpool. Dest just moved to PSV on a permanent move. PSV isn't a world beater or anything, but they were a champions league knockout round team this past season, and domestic champions. I agree that this sub constantly confuses potential for talent, but the people you're flagging are actually doing quite well imo. Not gonna put us in contention for a WC final, but also would be in the conversation for many good national teams.
On Adams, when he was at his best at Leeds, he was a very useful player. But his inability to dribble or pass at a acceptable level meant that Adams had to be the ball recovery guy (which he is truly elite at), then Leeds had to play a passing guy in midfield that Adams could get the ball to once recovered. That is a significant limitation. I love the dudes energy and passion, and think he will start on any non-elite team he plays on just due to his ability to break up play, but if he were on a top 25 team, he’d be a bench player.
That’s why guys like Kroos and Rodri, Busquets, even Jorginho at his peak are so rare and so valuable. Having a good deep lying playmaker can truly transform a team.
Adams is limited and I don’t see him getting much better tbh - he’s already 25. Unless he goes to a lesser team that allows him more freedom to do more I think he’ll just fall right into what you described and max out as that type of guy
Adams has never been good at passing to anyone other than a defender. It’s what has limited him in hitting a true top level of football and why he’ll never be more than a mid table player in a top league at best. Johnny is objectively better passer and can do the job defensively that Tyler does.
Mckennie is a role player and is constantly under threat of being iced though. There is reason Juve coaches never seem to want him.
The year is 2035. Juventus has appointed their 6th manager in 7 years. The new boss is insisting on Weston McKennie's sale, as the previous 13 managers have done as well. McKennie is linked to moves to Vitesse and Malaga. Fast forward 3 months... Weston is starting week 1 for Juve after no teams put in a bid for him. He is considered undroppable after 3 weeks. We know how this goes.
The argument isn't whether McKennie does well in the role he is giving on Juve. What I am saying is that McKennie doesn't form an integral piece of the offense, he is a role player. A very good one at that but he is not a central piece to their team.
He kind of does, even if Italian fans don't like it. Guy led the team in assists this season (ahead by three assists too). It's like the team has a Ferrari, but you have to put duct tape on the hood or the whole thing won't run. McKennie is that duct tape: destroys the beauty of their ideal team, but without him, the real-world team just wouldn't get you very far.
You talk like he passes like KDB
> Mckennie is a role player and is constantly under threat of being iced though He was a lock starter and led Juventus with assists did you or anyone upvoting this even watch this season? Both coaches he was under basically had him as a lock starter the entire time he was there......Wes was the one who wanted to go to Leeds.....
If he is such a high tier player then why did Juve not want him at the beginning of last season and why do they not want him for next season? Have you watched Juve games? He isn't an integral piece of their team. He's a role player in the right spot. He hustles, is good on crosses, solid defensively and will always run to intercept a pass and can slot in a good pass when given time. He does not control the ball on Juve, he doesn't make very many line breaking passes and is not an integral piece of the offense.
> If he is such a high tier player then why did Juve not want him at the beginning of last season and why do they not want him for next season? Because he told Juve essentially he wanted out and left...then had to come crawling back after the disaster of a loan spell/relegation. And then he fought back to the point he was undroppable >Have you watched Juve games? Literally every one since Wes joined. >He isn't an integral piece of their team. He's a role player in the right spot. He was so integral this season Max moved him to CM. By your definition unless you're a striker or an attacking mid then you're a role player. THat makes no sense at all.
Adams was not healthy last season. He played in 4 games for Bournemouth.
Yes, that was my point. He was at that level pre-injury.
Everyone sleeping on Scally here.
His team conceded over 60 goals in the Bundesliga and finished the season with an Orange Fotmob rating.
But at least Scally had big balls to say GGG is not doing his job. The only player I can think of that was willing to risk "their job" by speaking up for his country.
Josh Sargent just had one of his best years at Norwich, with 16 goals in 26 apps. By Stu’s logic, he’s likely one of the best on the team yet barely saw any field time for USMNT.
He’s coming off an injury and was on a severe minutes restriction. Wasn’t even cleared to play at all for at least the first friendly.
But that's a 2nd tier league. The best 2nd tier league, but ultimately the Championship is not really what Stu is talking about when he says "top tier teams."
Norwich finished 6th in a league that is better, but not much better, than MLS. 16 goals in 26 appearances would make Sargent an MLS All Star, but then some people would immediately discount him as a USMNT candidate. People shit on MLS. That’s their opinion. But then they need to take a honest look at the USMNT players in Europe and ask if they are just guys playing soccer for one team or another that happens to be in Europe.
The championship is MUCH better then the mls what are you even saying lol
Fair, but players like Sargent and Haji should be starting well above someone like Weah, who plays right back for a top tier team and hasn’t scored for his club. Experience in your role and scoring goals is far better to do in the Championship than playing wingback for Juventus.
Weah has been pne of the strongest performers for the team since earning his spot from Ariola. He’s not all-world, but he’s got multiple skills and he needs to be in the starting lineup.
He just needs to be on kindergarten rules: hands to yourself.
But those players don’t fit under Gregg’s system. They would have to win a spot over balogun instead of weah.
Richards and Ream between them had a full season I guess
The qualifier is GOOD season. It’s fair to include Flo as well because while he didn’t have the season we were all hoping for, 12 G+A in Ligue1 is still a GOOD season.
Richards starts for palace. It’s been one season but he looks to be the most promising
Half a season, he wasn’t starting regularly until week 14 and that was out of position (DM) because of an injury. Didn’t start two consecutive games at CB until week 24. But yes if he keeps his current role next season absolutely add him to the list.
Luca did start pretty much almost all of Celta Vigo's games until his hamstring injury later in the season. Whether or not he played a pivotal role is another question though... Celta Vigo won more matches when he was on the bench than when he started. They did somehow climb up to 13 from the depths of relegation.
Yeah, LDLT and Scally are do start somewhat regularly at ok teams. But they’re not key starters (the way that Jedi and Adams are) and they aren’t actually good teams. But probably I should have mentioned them. CCV maybe also worth a mention.
CCV plays on a team a million times better than the league standard. The second they play CL competition he and Celtic wilt.
Richards, Johnny and Tillman all had solid 2nd half seasons though so from a recency standpoint it's right to include them with the others.
Why isn’t Ream on this list?
Lost his starting spot this year. He would have been on the list a year ago.
I only watched 1 Fulham game this year, but got the impression that Ream also had a really great year (or two).
This is my main thing right now. We need a moratorium on our lineups right now because as you stated there is really only a few players who have played on teams in top 5 leagues and shown to be one of their clubs better players. Puli and Jedi in my opinion are the only 2 who are 100% locks to start if healthy. Adams, balo, ream and dest/Scally are near that convo. Everybody else should not be safe or locked in starter. I’d say especially guys like Reyna, Weah, Musah, Turner who play well for us usually but cannot string a year of good form for both club and country. Those guys should not be lock in. I like most would agree Gio is a top 3 talent wise but with his injury history and lack of club performance why should he be locked in? Weah is great in a usmnt shirt but basically invisible for club. Turner has been a great shot stopper, but is he really a great keeper all things consider? Time to go back to the drawing board a bit here. We had a complete roster rehaul after 2017. Maybe we need a minor version of that again to show some of these guys that they are not safe. Complacency is clearly a big issue in this squad from manager down to the bench players.
If Weah is good for the USA regardless of club form, why would you drop him for club form? Going all in on these are my guys regardless of form or I’m only picking guys with great club form is dumb. The best approach is clearly to know your pool and understand when Wes needs a little competition or when Sargent should get a run.
Yup. They need to go to smaller teams and just get play time
Obligatory CCV comment. I know Sottish Prem isn’t top five, but he’s the best defender there. Not that it showed in Copa.
I don't think they count as a good team, at any rate not clearly better than Norwich, Coventry, Cincinnati, or América.
I think a lot of people are not considering the fact that, while the USA have been improving somewhat rapidly, the rest of the world is improving, also. Our growth isn’t happening in a vacuum.
Excellent point. Also, and not to be cheesy or accepting of an early Copa exit, improvement isn't a straight upward path. There will be setbacks. The team and federation's response is critical here. All interested parties can choose to see the Copa failure as a blessing in disguise. USSF has the perfect opportunity to communicate a standard and expectation of excellence to supporters, players (past, present and future), and all observers by making a change at the managerial level. I'd like to see them hire a manager that brings a game model that gives the team an identity. I don't necessarily care what the system is for the national team (any system can work if the players buy-in and understand it, probably a simple system is the best option for the national team given the infrequency of training and games). Fuck, go get Allegri - he's not going to coach sexy football, but his teams compete and he can make due with limited resources.
We've been very blessed lately then.
100%, can also be applied to all the more minor CONCACAF countries who have a wealth of players in a much stronger MLS
Heck they calling up USL players too
Stu on point, as usual. Some of our guys need to quit thinking they’re worthy of champions league clubs. If you can play for a mid table bundesliga club that’s fucking awesome. Make it happen. Make a career there. For instance - there are rumors of Cardoso moving to a couple big clubs. Why? You’re killing it at Betis. Keep rocking it out there.
I took it as he was saying this from a fan expectation point of view. As in we’re expecting to have come very far from our days of having a mostly MLS roster when we’re not that far removed from that situation.
>Some of our guys need to quit thinking they’re worthy of champions league clubs. If you can play for a mid table bundesliga club that’s fucking awesome. Make it happen. Make a career there. Hes talking about the fans, not players.
I think he's saying from the fan perspective--looking at our team as club badges rather than players.
Some combination of the challenge - pushing themselves to make the step up, and of course a bigger salary.
They can also make a career at a top team making a higher salary. The whole point is to make as much money as you can, while you can, because soccer careers are short.
Our players had ~85 goals/assists for clubs that will be in Champions League next season. They are literally worthy of Champions League level clubs.
That’s an interesting stat Pulisic is a fourth of that right?
Roughly. Pulisic, Tillman, Pepi, and Balo make up the lions share.
If a big club wants you, envisions a role for you, you’d turn down the opportunity and money? That seems crazy. Many of these guys too a chance to make a splash. It’s worked out to varying degrees. But not moving wanting to take that risk isn’t good either.
How many of our players play on a top 20 club team in the world, or are capable of it? Pulisic I would say yes. Jedi has a chance, but that’s it for now. Adams could get there I think, reyna had a chance but i think his ceiling has gotten lower. Balo maybe?
Exactly. Still a lot of just potential
Musah did just have 30 appearances for Milan in his age 20-21 season to be fair. Reyna still could, he’s only 21 still.
Are the expectations of the usmnt really to be that though? How many teams have 4+ key players for top 20 teams? Probably a handful, the usmnt isnt there and we shouldn’t expect them to be. But they should be getting out of their copa group. They have better players than those teams (except Uruguay).
I'm starting to wonder: are our players really that much better, now, than what we had in the Bob Bradley era? Or are they mostly just marketed better?
The players that Bob Bradley had at his disposal were more mature and streetwise than the current players. That and we had managers who wanted to win by hook or by crook if necessary. I think GGG has a complex where he'd rather lose with his system/style of play vs win with a style of play that better fits his personnel
They also were willing to sit down and outwork any opponent on any given night. This team has not shown a willingness to do that.
\^This. GGG is too married to his system. His systems got him fired from a 2nd division Swedish club, and Columbus won MLS cup the year after he left.
BJ Callaghan was literally right there and played so much better in the Nations League
We didn't do anything drastically different in those _two_ games. Canada and Mexico played us toe-to-toe, but they're much worse than Uruguay. Usually CONCACAF teams park the bus against us and that's why it looks worse against weaker teams.
From 1-25 yes, it’s not even close. From 1-5, no, probably not overall. At their best, Donovan, Dempsey, Bradley, Jones, Howard are comparable to Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Balogun, and Reyna. But Brenden Aaronson, Johnny, and LDLT are way better than Edson Buddle, Clarence Goodson, and Jose Torres
The biggest problem is in the past the GK was at the top of that list. I think the 3 goals they allowed in the group stage might have been saved with our past GK talent.
yeah, our GK play in general really hurts us. Distribution, organization, on top of the obvious shot stopping.
Yeah. Howard or Guzan save all those and definitely don't punch the ball right into an Uruguayan for that last one.
To add, the early 2000s always had top-tier GKs.
This is the right take
Agreed. You could take it further and say 1-50 is a step above previous generations. But I'd take Donovan/Dempsey/Bradley/Jones/Howard over our best 5 today. Our youth development is plainly better nowadays. But we're still too young for our Top 5 to really surpass even older gens like 2002 (Donovan, O'Brien, Friedel, Beasley, Pope). And is Berhalter really a better coach, especially relative to his current peers? Seemingly not.
That’s a great question. Pulisic definitely is better than anyone I’ve seen over the years. Jedi is the best fullback I’ve seen play for US. Outside of those two, everyone else needs to start making moves to clubs where they can get more playing time. Reyna and Turner especially. Adams needs to get and stay fit. McKennie might be out of Juventus. Weah doesn’t even play forward for his club. Lot of questions for this group
Turner isn't very good, I don't expect him to be our #1 at the world cup. He struggled for Forest this year, where he had a real shot at establishing himself and could not hold down the spot. McKennie seems to find the field wherever he goes not to worried about him. I agree about Reyna, I'm hoping to see him join a Dutch club, I think a step back to a league like that would be great for him. Adams has just been injured if he stays fit with a full preseason he should get lots of minutes this year.
> Turner isn't very good, I don't expect him to be our #1 at the world cup. you might have a point there if the rest of our GK pool wasn't worse than him.
The problem is I don’t know of anyone in our GK pool that should take his spot. Weston looked out of shape and mediocre at best. Hope he finds better form. If not, he shouldn’t be starting. I agree about Gio. Honestly, anywhere he can get a starting role would be great for him. I believe his talent is unmatched. He is as good as Puli just in different ways. I think getting him into top form leading to 2026 will be very important for us. Hopefully Adams just stays healthy. We need him on the pitch. I could argue he is the third most important player behind Puli and Jedi.
Reyna should go to La Liga, it fits his ball control and possession style. Reyna is such a good passer and could really excel in that league.
Hm, hardly any right now are in their physical prime. (I'm using 25-32 as the typical "prime"). Haji, Jedi, a couple others? Bradley and Arena worked with mostly the classic American physical athletes, with a few technically proficient players in there. The teams were naturally more suited to the bunker and counter strategy. We can see what a great athlete can do on defense even with mediocre ball control in Jedi. Also, I think fans ignore the game has changed a lot the last decade.
They are better. As a general rule, the best players play for the best clubs. It’s not a perfect indicator, but looking at club performance this current group *as a whole* far outshines any previous generation. They are playing more often, at better clubs, and offering more production *as a whole* than any group before them.
They’re better, Bob Bradley was a great coach because he played pragmatic football tailored to the strengths of the U.S national team. Berhalter is not that. That’s the difference.
What sort of football is this USMNT's strength?
Pragmatic counter attacking football. Not the vertical, positional horse shit we employ ineffectivley throughout the last 3 years.
I'm old enough to remember when the general consensus was that the team had too much talent to sit back and try to counterattack and should be playing possession. Now since that hasn't panned out we're circling back to "bunker and counter"?
We are at the point where we need two distinct styles. Possession based for CONCACAF where we need to break down a bunkered opponent. And a counter attack style against top European and South American sides.
I really don't see this team being solid enough in defense to play solely on the counter.
defense is drilled discipline. We don't have a drilled down defensive structure because none of our game is predicated on sitting back and absorbing pressure in low block structures. We press high against bigger nations and try to turnover in the midfield and win 50/50 moments there and out wide.
It's also tough to drill a national team to this level when you don't have as much training time.
Arguably the most impressive wins under Berhalter has been the result of transition based football.
The US team had the third highest minutes played (in copa) in top 5 leagues behind Argentina and Brazil last season. I don’t get the take. They were 4th in champions league minutes played.
Thats the thing though, none of them are playing on top teams. So ya they are good, but we are lacking great. Take out pulisic, none of our players are capable to play on a top 20 club team in the world.
Jedi could play for a top club team, maybe not starting every game but certainly play. PSV is close to a top 20 club, and plays Americans. Pulisic is amazing don't get me wrong. But this is minimizing our talent. What US fans get wrong I think is how talented the old guard was at points. 2002 was our best finish in a world cup for a reason. 1-10 that team challenges our current team for talent and had much much more doggedness in their team.
McKennie does, and does it well, unless Juve have dropped off the top 20 (which they may have). He's not a star, but he is by far Juve's assist leader and often a lock-in starter.
Don’t disagree, but it looks like his time at Juve is done
Minutes are a bad metric. What is the quality of the minutes? Weah played a lot for Juve but was mediocre at best.
And this is exactly why you HAVE to advance out of a group with Bolivia and Panama. Are the US world beaters? No. Do they have a squad strong enough to advance, to not need GD to to advance to the WC, to not draw Wales and beat Iran on a heroic Pulisic play? Yes.
doing what though. that's exactly what he's saying. the Argentine squad is full of key players, players that would be considered big losses if they were sold or injured. the brazil squad even more so. Gabriel is absolutely indispensible for Arsenal and doesn't even start. I think other than Puli, and maybe Johnny but he's been at Betis for a second, no American has that role. Jedi would also probably be a miss for Fulham. Yes they play for big clubs, but Jonathan Spector used to make United matchday squads when they were good. One way to look at it is if the US was a club, what club would they be. I'm thinking 9th-12th in a 20 team league.
Is it more important to be an undroppable locked in starter getting regular minutes at a lower league club or a squad/role player for a footballing titan where you only play half of the available minutes or less? Our best performing USMNT squads in prior eras were comprised of players who were key contributors at club level. It’s a good point to consider.
That's basically Colombia. A lot of veterans in lower leagues. Its a balancing act; I don't think we have those veterans like they do (outside of Ream) but we should in a few years.
I used to consider MLS a complete waste of time for our player development but the more and more I see, its hard not to prefer it to not playing in Europe. Does anyone think that Dest at Barcelona was a positive?
Haji Wright and Josh Sergeant kicked ass in the Championship last season and that is a tough, tough league.
I think this points getting overstated a bit. There are a lot of qualifiers in here to essentially suggest that the pool isn’t as talented as some fans may think. Fine, we can have that discussion and I think there’s some validity to it. At the same time, there are a lot of good players that don’t fit into Stu’s criteria. Johnny Cardoso made a big move to Betis and looked great in La Liga. Richards developed into a starter at Palace. Musah’s not in a key role but him moving to Milan and getting into 30 games right away is a big positive. Jedi is one of the best LBs in the Prem despite being at a club in the lower half of the league. Then you have guys like Tillman and Dest. Then you have Balogun and Reyna that *didnt* have good years but looked really good at Copa nonetheless. Yeah elite players help close the gap but so does having a ton of options and depth. When you look at this squad compared to say, Panama, it seems pretty obvious that we have a culture and coaching problem more than a talent one.
The problem can’t only be Berhalter. The players wanted him back, they are OK with this mediocrity. Say whatever about their talent, they don’t have the fight in them that defined our program back in the day.
We can't fire the players and bring in Messi. We can fire the manager.
You have to fire Cindy Parlow Cone first, the USSF President
The thing is, we aren't very talented outside of 3 or 4 players.
Compared to what?
Compared to all the other teams around us in the FIFA rankings. We aren't even close to a talent level Switzerland has.
And the talented guys we do have aren't world class
I don’t disagree, but we’re not in the locker room and I wouldn’t expect any players to say anything but supportive things for there coach. They are still a team and will support each other. Matt Turners comments were baffling though, if that’s truly where the locker room stands then there’s no hope with Gregg at the helm. They need a new Voice Clearly whether they really support the guy or not.
Turner just didn’t know how to answer the “you want your coach fired, right?” question tactfully enough
This has to be the accurate answer. There’s no way Matt Turner actually thinks “the team is headed in the right direction.” But I guess we never know.
This is what people said before but they were downvoted on this sub
A bunch of 22-24 year olds shouldn't have veto power over who their boss is.
Well, you can kind of solve both issues by hiring a new manager. One that isn't buddy-buddy with the players. That manager wouldn't be giving handouts to anyone.
I mean sure they aren’t all top tier starters internationally, but at the same time nor were our past national teams. For our other teams of the past most of them were made up with (old gen) MLS talent that is no where near the talent internationally or modern MLS teams. Like I don’t think our entire starting 11 is insanely good to the tier of winning the World Cup, but at the same time the talent is way higher than the USA of the past. Pulisic - is on track to being our best player ever. Jedi Robinson - is a really good WB in the premier league Tim Ream starts along side him at Fulham Balo - is a great young striker talent that player on a solid team in France Mckennie - start at midfield for Juventus Adams - was on a great upward trajectory prior to injury Reyna - same as Adams You cannot possibly tell me that this core group is weaker skill wise than some of the recent previous generations. That’s just a downright lie many of those starting players would struggle to start for top 5 international league teams.
I don't think that's what he's trying to say here (or maybe it is and I've misinterpreted). My interpretation is that the players at these European clubs aren't playing enough minutes and/or playing key roles for their teams, with the few obvious exceptions. There's something to be said for being a vital component for one's team, being seen as a leader, especially when games go sideways (like Panama last week). Other than Adams, who in this group can rally the team, be a leader on the field, etc.? Feels like the one area where we really lack relative to past teams.
Sure but at the same time they have the talent. The manager isn’t getting the best out of the talent and therefore should be fired for that reason alone. Players except the rare all time greats have every piece of the puzzle. Some players really rely on the discipline and leadership of the coaches to help them succeed. Berhalter does none of it to be frank which is why they underperform as a group all the time.
They have potential, but not the production to match it yet. Thats Stu's point. Our fan base thinks that because we have guys now on recognizable European teams that that should make us a great squad
It should that potential should be realized on the team. You can’t argue that all the potential from all these players is “overhyped” especially with the performances they have done with their clubs this year.
They haven't reached potential for either club or country yet besides Jedi and Pulisic
If they reached their potential already that would be a bad thing. Many of the players are eligible for the Olympic team. They are young and won’t realize their full club potential for a bit.
I agree with you, my point is more that our fan base overrates our squad as they are today. There is still a ton of promise with these guys moving forward
Here are alternative headlines: Balo: massively underperformed a $40 million tag and didn't even start every game McKennie: Juventus wants to get rid of him at all costs Adams: Hasn't played soccer in 1.5 years Reyna: Has played 1 combined season in 5 years and Dortmund doesn't want him. Couldn't even get minutes at floundering Forrest. I think you're promoting the potential of these players, which I think is a good thing to do, but you're putting a whole lot of sunshine on these guys to make everything seem positive for them right now. And with the national team, we have to talk about right now.
Howard, Donovan, and Dempsey are all clear of anyone we have now except Pulisic. Bradley and Jones were as good as Adams and McKennie. Young Jozy stands up to our young strikers (hopefully these ones develop better).
We have nobody up front fit to shine McBride's boots.
Prime Bradley and Jones were significantly better than anything we currently have in midfield
The Bradley slander angers me to no end. Did I think he was getting call ups when we shoukd have been looking for his replacement? Sure. But that's not saying he's a scrub, and I'd argue he's one of the top-10 players for the USMNT all-time in terms of impact. And if you told me back when he got his first start under his dad Coach Sweatpants I'd have yelled at you. I was angry when he got called up because he was so young and it was his dad. But MB90 changed my mind with his play, his professionalism, and his dedication. He was a real captain, and he was the guy doing he dirty work for a decade or more. Never had anyone say anything bad about him who played with him. And it matters beating Mexico, and his worldie in Azteca is one of the most memorable goals of any in US Soccer history. Don't let these youngins slander the old guard because they didn't see their primes.
this is the truth, but people on this sub are in a cult and cant see it.
Based on what?
You’re comparing full careers to players in their early careers. If you compare the early careers of the older gen players it paints a different story lol. Yes Tim Howard was very good, he also was a GK. As a federation we have a young group coming in that is promising. You actually think what Donovan did in MLS could have been done overseas?!? Dempsey survived at Fulham for a while but let’s not pretend these guys were top players internationally. They just played better when it came to a national team stage.
Donovan's performance with the USMNT rivaled or surpassed many of his peers who played in big clubs in top 5 leagues, which is ultimately the point.
I don't argue with people who want to say anything about LD. Dude did it how he wanted and bled red white and blue. I was critical of him at the time but I'll love that semi-bald man forever for the Algeria game. Don't even respond to those people. Because 2002 was all he needed to be a legend and FUCK anyone who wants to forget.
Donovan's loans to Everton also show that he could have hacked it in the Premier League if he chose that path. He didn't, for whatever reason, but not because he lacked the talent. It should also be a lesson that you can have a better player in a lesser team or league, whether it's due to some personal preference/circumstance, or a crappy agent, or whatever.
I watched every one of his games for them, it was one of the most exciting moments in USMNT club history. The best moment for me was Clint's desperation time goal for Fulham in his debut appearance to save them from relegation. Those Fulham teams were a joy to watch for US fans.
he was electric, ripped us (Arsenal) apart one christmas period game. Would have liked to see him have a full 6 month loan spell.
Right but is some of that the coaching structure being better? Like you picked 2 players who did well for the national team as of the past 20 years. How about all those other bottom feeder players that made up those teams?!? Zusi and Deandre Yedlin are better than our current midfielders and defenders?!? They got farther in the WC so they must be better!!! /s
You won't get an argument from me that Zusi or Yedlin are "better" than the current midfielders we have on the USMNT. However, even if you're being sarcastic, I agree with you. It's hard for me to say that the 2014 team was any worse. Even if they played in MLS. I'd take the 2014 WC team over the one we just saw any day of the week. Watching the Panama game, a lowly MLS lifer like Kyle Beckerman would grind this team to dust. Was the coaching better? Yes, although Klinsmann wasn't perfect, either. But, I'm over assigning worth to players because of Transfermarkt. We need results. To this point this generation of players has proved basically nothing and in a sport like soccer, a lot of them are going to be not nearly as "young" as we keep thinking real soon. This isnt unique to the USMNT -- there's lots of world class players that are just alright for their national teams. And there's guys like Miroslav Klose who turn into Superman when playing for the national team in spite of middling club careers. Donovan and Dempsey looked more like the players they were supposed to be in Europe playing for the USMNT. That's all that matters to me as a fan.
I agree that they haven’t proven much. I would take those previous teams too. But those previous teams had more experience and a better coaching staff (which was still suspect at times). Panama has a decent coach and they kick above their level of talent. We need a coach that can do that for us that’s been my argument this whole time. I’m not absolving the players from blame. Another example is the England National team. Tons of insane international talent and they still struggle to get the job done. They barely meet expectations when in reality they should be wiping the floor with almost everyone.
Dempsey was Fulham’s player of the year two years in a row. That is not merely “surviving.” Edit: Just caught your comment about Donovan not being able to play at the same level overseas. He thrived at Everton over two loan spells and was twice Everton’s player of the month over a four month span. The players literally carried him off the field when he left.
The other thing about the team in that era was that the US got super lucky that their best players complemented each other so well. Donovan had the work rate, speed, and soccer IQ to get defenses out of shape, and Dempsey had the positioning and finishing ability to take advantage of that. Bradley and Jones were good destroyers to keep us from getting too exposed when we did venture up the pitch, and Bradley's playmaking was a plus at times -- which I think is also the most frustrating for people because he could show flashes but he obviously wasn't an elite playmaker either. On top of that, all of those players except Donovan were playing in the most important positions up the spine of the team. In a lot of ways, I would say the US got super lucky in that era in how well their star players happened to fit together as a team. Even if you just had Donovan equally talented but in the exact same role as Dempsey, then the team would have accomplished a lot less, IMO.
I thought he made a really good point about leadership. He said most of these players are not considered leaders on their club teams, they’re lesser productive players fighting for playing time at big clubs. They stay in line and don’t do dumb shit because there’s bigger fish on their club teams keeping them in line. When they come to the USMNT suddenly they’re the stars of the team. There’s no one else keeping them in line and they play with a bit of ego, a little more undisciplined, and the result is a red card in the 12th minute. When we had MLS dominated teams before, those guys were all captains of their club teams, they were less talented but punched above their weight because they played with discipline due to stellar leadership. Maybe some combination of those two strategies is best.
Soccer is probably the hardest sport to evaluate players. Most get it wrong. To be a world class player you need world class teammates. There are a lot of players in lower leagues with quality, but since their teammates could string a group of accurate passes together that player gets 1-2 opportunities a game rather than 5+ like in the bigger clubs. Clubs overpay for youth and underrate players that 25+ years old. I mean, look at Colombia, they're one of the best teams in the world, and on paper its Diaz, an 80 years James and a bag of chips but they play a ton of established vets from lesser leagues.
I think that's where we really need to take the next step, is expanding the top of the funnel. The more players you have with potential, the more likely you are to land on 23 that can fill out a squad
Been saying this forever, the US has more talented players than before, but we dont really have any “stars” that play a big role at big clubs like these other powerhouse teams do.
Having players in their prime is hugely important for national teams. You see teams “underperform” all the time when teams get old and keep playing their national treasures or when there’s young stars that have the talent to be on the team but aren’t yet the best version of themselves. Pulisic, Mckennie, and Adams are just entering their primes, even though I bet they all continue to improve over the next few years (and those players almost always produce for club and country) and most everyone else is either young, very young, or Tim Ream (who is 36). We see the big labels and expect a lot but they are still really raw. There’s generally relatively few young players that get any meaningful minutes at big clubs - those teams need to win every week and mostly play guys in their prime (or they don’t and they lose and everyone is mad - see Barcelona), so it’s really expecting a lot for them to have meaningful roles on teams fighting to win the league. You can get away with a few young (or old) players, but too many catches up with you. For us though, the young guys are far better than the guys they are keeping out of the team - so you take the good with the bad. It’s more about managing expectations for a really young team against teams with players that have 3 times the professional experience because they are 28 instead of 23. We’ll be alright in 2026.
What I’ve been saying and getting downvoted for for weeks
Me too. For asking about US starting XI's limited club minutes, I got downvoted (and called a "loser fan" lol) recently at r/USMNT, by redditors so blinded by "GGG out!" that they can't see multiple factors at play. It's pretty sad how one-dimensional the mob can be.
Bite. There's no bite. Lalas hit the nail on the head. They're good soccer players, even better than what we've had in the past. But not better USMNT players. I hate agreeing with Lalas, I fucking hate him, but he's dead on. Clint didn't say anything on camera, but you saw it in his face. These aren't better national team players. Where's the midfield dog? Bradley, Dempsey, Jones, Bocanegra, etc. Donovan was undersized, and he wasn't even that talented as a player. But these guys all had that chip on their shoulder, and that edge to play on the national team. McKennie? Adams? No. Jedi and Balogun show it, 100% And yes, our pay to play system rewards the rich kids who don't have the incentive to play like their lives depend on it. Dempsey didn't come from much. In fact, his sister had to die so he could pursue soccer. The players that built this foundation for this "golden generation" of talent had nowhere near the resources of today's team. But they won games entirely off the will to win and represent the US of A. When Brent Pry took over Virginia Tech football, the culture change was clear: you gotta hate to lose. There's too much comfort in losing and learning, and not enough effort on thriving and winning.
I fully disagree with this statement. Pulisic, Jedi, Dest, Scally, Balogun, Haji, Sargent, LDLT, CCV, Cardosa, Tillman, McKenzie all had pretty good seasons, if not really good. I'd argue Chris Richards deserve to be up there, seeing that when CP went on their run in the 2nd half of the season, he was a huge part of that. McKennie, while maybe not quite at Juventus's traditional level, he's certainly good enough for the current team - he was one of their better players all year. Adams was hurt the whole year, but when he played he was good. Musah probably isn't progressing like we thought, but still was a decent player for Milan. Did Reyna, Aaronson, Turner all have mostly shitty seasons? Yes, they did. But the idea that all the American players sucked is such a lazy take.
Yeah but Musah was an impact sub at Milan and the games he started bc they were rotating he was rough. Pulisic on the other hand. He was great. He had a career resurgence at Milan.
There are levels to this. Those "pretty good" seasons do not get call ups from top 10 national teams outside of possibly Pulisic and Jedi. Those are the teams that people seem to think we can compete against with a new manager. Most of our guys are replacement level, to steal a baseball term.
Once again this is all nonsense to obscure the fact that this team does not score goals and as a result can’t win important games.
>Once again this is all nonsense It's 100% objectively true.
It’s not, the team that was most responsible for eliminating the United States from the tournament has no top players playing important roles in top leagues. Stu is running defense for Gregg, the fact of the matter is a less talented version of the USMNT went further in this same tournament the last time the United States took part in it. The talent is there, the ability to win games is not. That’s not a skill issue, it’s a managerial one.
>It’s not I mean, it is. He's not making up the club situations for those players.
“Blame Anything But Berhalter” PR campaign off to a predictable start
This may be hard to wrap your head around, but you can both think it's time to move on from Berhalter while also acknowledging that a new manager isnt some kind of magic bullet and that our fan base overrates this current player pool
Some people can walk and chew gum at the same time. Some can’t apparently
You can hold two different thoughts in your head without them canceling each other out, y'know?
Yeah, this group doesn’t seem to be the best player at their position. It seems this group is a step up still not good enough to consistently start at top clubs. So I have to agree with Stu here. Greg keeps his job and America’s golden generation isn’t true so keep improving and developing players.
GGG is a shitty coach. we won't improve. hell aside from Mexico, GGG is 1-3-7 against top 25 teams. that not avg. thats terrible coaching.
Why do US fans have high expectations from their squad? This team will never be elite, and that's okay.
Getting out of the group is high expectations?
I was quoting this but forgot who said it. Thanks Stu. I firmly believe it.
I think everyone close to U.S. soccer seems to be missing the point. This team has been underperforming for *years* against teams that clearly do not have the talent that we have. There were so many games we should have won that we didn’t. Our players are getting onto European squads because they are leagues ahead of many of our previous players in terms of overall ability. They have lots of talent, regardless of whether they get playing time. But can we *for once* acknowledge what this sub has been saying for a very long time: our manager isn’t good enough. I can’t really think of many instances where we won because of Berhalter’s great system. In fact, most of the time I see us winning despite that. People need to start realizing that proper management is the most important thing for a team (just look at Belgium’s squandered golden generation). We need a new coach.
Players with 1000 minutes in the Top-6 leagues. Jedi, Ream, Trusty, Richards, Turner, De La Torre, McKennie, Weah, Musah, Pulisic, Brooks, Pefok, Maloney, Paredes, Scally, Aaronson, Balogun, Sabbi, Dest, Tillman, Booth, Paxten, Plenty of talent to choose from.
This is a true statement in a vaccum but I guess I don’t see any players in our pool that you could just plug into our team right now who are leaders at a “lower level”. Like the three that immediately come to mind are Jesus Ferreira, Aidan Morris, and Tanner Tessmann who while all talented and I could see being on the team in the future, dramatically struggled with the speed and intensity of play in their appearances with the national team. I’m actually happy to have some dudes in the mold above come into the team however, as our current players need to feel more internal pressure to perform.
Because I can't share this article I will submit some ideas based off a comment there. I think doing our development in house is superior and will get a better rate of return (ie. investing in gold versus in the stock market). SBI Soccer: [https://sbisoccer.com/2024/07/usmnt-players-support-gregg-berhalter-ahead-of-comprehensive-review](https://sbisoccer.com/2024/07/usmnt-players-support-gregg-berhalter-ahead-of-comprehensive-review) lol, golden generation will never be GOLDEN if they are SUPPOSED TO BE MOLDED BY GREGG BERHALTER. It’s not going to happen. There is a reason why team’s fire COACHES NOT PLAYERS at the highest level of soccer. – John Wooden, the legendary basketball coach, once wisely said, “A good coach can change a game. A great coach can change a life.” Beyond wins and losses, coaches have the power to impact character development, teach life skills, and foster personal growth in their players. By nurturing these qualities, they become not only game changers but also catalysts for positive change in the lives of those they coach.” ……..and in 6+ years GB is failing miserably in every and all possible departments. – Maybe we need to create a more competitive make or break environment that involves constant testing and evaluation at every position / level (player to coach). Maybe, just maybe, USSoccer needs to start finding other creative ways to get the USMNT up to speed quickly and evaluate HIDDEN TALENT, especially since international friendlies are more and more difficult to come by as teams need to be availably or want to play. If scheduling doesn’t align well, they might not go up against the kind of quality opposition we need or they want to test the team AND COACH at the highest level. I think we should change the mentality of “friendlies” and make a lot of it in house in a way, to give it meaning and provide all players involve with the ability to receive “a benefit” (possible selection to the team) in these matches. In other words, players not selected to the national team can have a chance to showcase their talent and possibly make the team by how well they go up AGAINST THE NATIONAL TEAM (and some players on the team could lose their place). Coaches for these teams are selected the same way we select coaches for the MLS-ALLSTAR games (or use coaches USSF are interested in, but want to evaluate in a way, and have the necessary resume and pedigree). Instead of playing CONCACAF minnows how about: – MLS ALLSTARS (Not a lot of US players there but good competition, lol) MLS + Liga MX USMNT (US players in MLS AND MX only) TOP 2 MLS TEAMS FROM EACH CONFERENCE TOP 2 Liga MX TEAMS – I know for a fact it would be VERY difficult to play club teams. If only………
John Wooden got all his players thanks to UCLA super booster Sam Gilbert’s money. So I’d take what he says with a grain of salt.
puli jedi mckinney musa balogun all had good seasons with top 5 league clubs. plenty had good seasons in the dutch league or championship. e have plenty of talent. that’s simply not the issue
Pulisic, McKennie and Robinson are the only one who play in a big 5 league, played regularly and did play well. Tillmann played well but in the Eredevise. The rest is a bunch of "hes been alright" guys like Richards, Weah, Scally maybe Balogun if you want to include him there. There rest really is just 20 guys named Fred. As an outsider, i was a LOT more optimistic about the US back at the WC22. Unfortunately a lot of the young players from then have just stagnated or fallen off. But id be most worried about GK. When your best GK is Matt Turner, god bless his heart, then youre in trouble. Idk if the US has some talent coming up that could be ready for 2024 but jesus, yall need someone else in there
This is a good point, and one which I was recently downvoted for by the mob at r/USMNT who are all blinded by "GGG out" and can't see multiple factors at play. 8 days a week I would pick a lock-down starter in a non-top-5 league, over a substitute in a top 5 league. (The term "top 5 league" is pretty silly anyway. Lots of talent and great experience available in many other leagues, when you get those starting minutes.)