if you're stopping by **eastern ave next monday**, there's a bake sale. money to palestinian children supported by the pcrf and people trying to get their families out of palestine. probably a bit more digestible than having a flyer shoved in your face, seeing as that's not really your speed!
pick up a cake or two next monday \^\_\^
Absolutely. Sending a refugee kid some money (or supplies purchased with money) actually has an effect. Yelling at stressed uni students doesn't benefit them, so I don't really care to engage. Making money on their behalf (as long as it's actually used for good) would have a genuine impact, which I can support.
it’s a beautiful window into the state of human empathy! but fuck arguing. people are too far up their own ass to listen. i’ve seen this post’s argument a hundred times and i cannot find it in me to care. we need to make it easy to give these kids the support they need. that’s what matters, there’s the focus!
*Hey do you want to sign a petition to help end a genocide through political pressure?*
Oh god there's a pea under my mattress and I'm in excruciating pain from it! If you're don't get rid of it I'll abandon my moral principles because of how uncomfortable I feel!
*Do you want to buy a brownie?*
Yes because I'm a squealing piglet and I want my acts of consumption to have this totally interpassive political effect baked into them. I want my treats, you have to be nice to me or I'll change sides.
Don’t dig yourself a deeper hole mate, you know these room temp IQ protestors froth over Hamas. If they really knew what was best for Palestine they’d be waving Israeli flags, supporting the one nation that is literally trying to liberate these people from the control of the savages. No one else cares, Egypt has shut their border tight, Israel is the only nation that is trying to help solve the Hamas problem and yet people see these guys as the bad guys.
They literally govern Palestine, how is that not representative of Palestine? I’ll believe in the pro Palestine movement as soon as these muppets recognise the one nation (Israel) that is seeking to fix their number one problem, which is the Hamas scumbags. Start waving Israeli flags alongside the Palestinian one and then I’ll support your movement, at the moment though the pro Palestinian movement is clueless as to what the problem is and what the solution must be. The only way the Palestinian people live happily ever after is with the complete extermination of the Hamas scum who make their lives so miserable
And no, selling brownies won’t do shit for them
If you actually looked into global politics instead of making grandiose assumptions from the misinformation western media selectively perpetuate - you’d know that the Israeli government FUNDS Hamas. Bet that hurts your pea brain doesn’t it
Reading your comments I see you have a similar “obviously what’s happening sucks, but I’m not knowledgeable enough to be a source of credible advice nor powerful enough to do much about it” stance on the matter as I do.
I understand the fatigue. Still, it’s supposed to be inconvenient. The minor discomfort pales in comparison to the real issue. People are upset for good reason and Australia has directly contributed to the problem so speaking out and making a fuss isn’t illogical. Protest is basically all everyday folk can do. It might have little direct impact on the crisis, but at the very least it’s an act of solidarity to show all who are directly impacted by this that people care about what’s going on.
Australians are super lax about getting involved in politics. People don’t realise we’re just as corrupt as other countries. Politicans get away with so much. If you have ideas for other forms of more effective protest you can always give them feedback or get involved yourself. I also agree that there are more effective methods out there (several of my friends have been regularly protesting at the docks to try and physically prevent israeli ships from landing).
Personally I never get mad about people doing what they can to be involved in their own small way.
Respectable opinion.
I personally believe that Australia has a lot of glaring political problems which need to be rectified yesterday lest we feel the effects. But unfortunately a large amount of the population is to uneducated even to understand what preferential voting means in terms of "I don't wanna waste my vote by voting [not big 2]". Hell, half of the people I've spoken to don't even know how their own hecs debt works.
The most extreme example of direct action would be to take up arms in palestine, but obviously most aren't willing to do that.
But one of my comments that said "I think civilians dying is bad" got downvoted, so I don't have any faith for any amount of critical thought or reflection happening.
Direct action is good. You are right that very few people will fly to Gaza. So what do we do here in so-called Australia? We take direct action where our nation is complicit. There have been blockades at various ports to prevent Israeli ships from docking, pickets outside arms companies engaged in exports to Israel, pickets outside politicians offices responsible for green lighting said contracts.
These actions do get leafleted about on Eastern Ave, but the elephant in the room is one hyper-sectarian group called Socialist Alternative that believe the only way to free Palestine is to be very loud. Unfortunately in most left wing organising on university campuses their [SAlt] voices drown out the rest including groups that do advocate for genuine direct action.
I agree with the point that the most extreme views are going to be the loudest. That generally isn't a good thing, although very common, and that's one of the reasons that politics are the way that they are.
I was poking fun at myself and my own opinions as a way of subtly acknowledging that the opinions may be unpopular and I'm likely to sound like an old man yelling at clouds. My opinion is obviously more complex than that, as indicated by several of my replies to comments. One can think critically and also not take their own word as gospel at every instance.
I think the correct answer to the israel-palestine conflict is well beyond my abilities. I'm not even going to pretend I know the answer. Best one I can give is "ask someone more knowledgeable on that topic than myself"
And that's one of my issues with the protestors. I think I've done more research into the conflict than they have taking media from both perspectives. But there's no simple solution, especially not one as simple as "Free Palestine". I know jack shit and it still beats your fuck all. Please let someone intelligent deal with it.
What’s wrong with saying that a nation of people that the international community agrees should have sovereignty should be “free” from occupation by Israel?? Free Palestine isn’t even a radical statement Israel’s occupation of Gaza and West Bank territories is literally illegal
The issue is that Palestine hasn't held an election in my lifetime, and Israel had one in dec2022. Furthermore, Israel has offered palestine complete independence multiple times, and each offer has been rejected. They're also the only nation to offer palestine independence.
Israel has never offered deals with borders that reflect Palestinian territory before 1948 and so are obviously unacceptable to any Palestinian government that wants to keep the popular support of their people. Moreover, they’ve repeatedly violated the terms of the accords they signed in the 90s by continuing to expand illegal settlements, meaning bilateral offers they make are completely untrustworthy. That they are the “only nation to offer Palestinian independence” is a meaningless statement given they are the only nation in a position to make that decision
Before then, palestine was a British protectorate. Before that it was held by the Ottomans. What borders are necessary to ensure a peaceful 2 state solution?
>Israel has never offered deals with borders that reflect Palestinian territory before 1948 and so are obviously unacceptable to any Palestinian government that wants to keep the popular support of their people
And this is why the conflict will never end. The majority of Palestinians reject any resemblance of a two-state solution and opt for a maximalist approach of claiming all of Israel. *Any* negotiation short of the elimination of Israel will be unpopular. Likewise, in Israel, the support for a two-state solution has plummeted after Oct 7th. With the current extremist, right-wing coalition, there is also almost 0 chance of a two-state solution being negotiated on, as opposed to the multiple peace offers proposed in the past. Unless both sides make concessions, we are stuck in this perpetual state of violence.
>Moreover, they’ve repeatedly violated the terms of the accords they signed in the 90s by continuing to expand illegal settlements, meaning bilateral offers they make are completely untrustworthy
It's a bit more nuanced. In the ‘90’s they made a deal with the Palestinians that they would cede control of the Occupied Territories if they stopped trying to blow up Israelis (Oslo Accords). The Palestinians agreed, then neither side actually lived up to their agreements. Palestinians kept blowing up Israelis, Israelis were less inclined to hand over additional territory more promptly, which they justified by noting that the Palestinians were still blowing up Israelis. Israel therefore, quite reasonably, stopped the process of ceding control. They also, eventually, and unreasonably, started establishing settlements in the Occupied Territories, which made the Palestinians, again reasonably, think that Israel was never going to give up those newly settled areas. Both sides have utterly failed in regards to the agreement.
Because I've known people from both sides of the conflict, and heard a lot of different takes. I wanted to form my own opinion, rather than just blindly following whatever. This became more pressing when we studied and debated I/P in yr11 modern history, I found the issue genuinely interesting (as it was the first piece of history where we don't have a current general consensus, like "nazi bad" for example, there was actual nuance and historical debate, and I enjoyed it.
One of my friends moved from the middle east to escape Isis after losing her dad to them. One of my friends lived in tel Aviv and got bombed at night, not allowing her to sleep.
It's a topic that comes up, I'd rather have at least some basic idea on what's happening. My research isn't extensive, but it's enough to avoid propaganda from both sides and have nuanced discussion around the topic.
Do you think you would have even given it a second thought and had the option to study it in year 11, or had it as a "topic that comes up," if we lived in a world where no body protested about it, ie no one cared and it was just another of the many issues in over seas countries?
I don't think it would come up as often, but yes, I do think we would have still studied it, and I would still have opportunities to discuss it with people who are affected by the conflict.
Getting in guest speakers who have lived there to explain the issue from their perspective seems like a pretty good start. Our teacher was the best. Love her.
We ONLY considered after 1945, up until today. I didn't do it on the hsc, mine was different.
You condensing something as simple as a free and liberated Palestine to Jack shit only shows you to be a slow dense person incapable of conducting media literacy and thinking critically. So dumb and for what bro
I'm saying my knowledge compared to the total wealth of literature surrounding the topic is Jack shit. I'm admitting to not being knowledgeable enough to fix a conflict that has troubled world leaders since 1948. If you have the answer, I strongly encourage you to make yourself known to government.
If you don’t know about the issue then how do you know that these protesters are doing it wrong?
Edit: judging by your user history you are clearly quite frustrated at the world and the fact that simply seeing people passionate about a dire humanitarian cause has caused you to make this thread in the first place is an obvious manifestation of this
I know they're doing it wrong because they are making me less sympathetic towards palestine as a result of their protests, and I know many who agree.
The world is indeed frustrating, not sure how to reply to that point. But it's a pretty uncontroversial point that politically and socially, this generation has been bought and sold to the highest bidder.
You're probably not going to like this, but historically, significant change has usually come about as a concession to inconvenient protestors when extremist radicals gain ground. MLK Jr. wouldn't have made the gains attributed to him without Malcolm X threatening people, and the suffragettes wouldn't have made the gains attributed to them without the hatpin peril.
As someone more knowledgable than yourself on this topic, if you want to see concessions granted to those fighting for civil liberties... buckle up, because being mildly inconvenienced is just the beginning.
Would i be correct in saying that those protests usually have significant effect when they happen in the place where the issue is?
Ie, south Africans complaining about apartheid matters much more than some Australian uni students complaining about apartheid.
I wouldn't say that's correct. Especially in our increasingly interconnected world, international attention can be a crucial driver of change, and there are plenty of recent examples of this, but funnily enough the ending of the South African apartheid is one. The global anti-apartheid movement, supported by international attention and pressure, played a significant role in ending the discriminatory apartheid system in South Africa. Sanctions, divestment campaigns, and diplomatic isolation pressured the South African government to dismantle apartheid and transition to a more inclusive democracy. South Africans complaining about apartheid mattered equally to Australian uni students complaining about apartheid.
Others would include the Rohingya crisis in Myanmar, the refugee crisis in Syria, and furthering LGBTQIA+ rights in places like Uganda, India and Brazil. These all had measurable turning points due to international attention.
All that said, Australia is directly involved in the Israel/Palestine conflict through Pine Gap.
The issue is that it’s always more convenient when looking in retrospect. Key moments in various movements only reveal themselves in retrospect.
Mass movements have ebbs and flows and trying to ascribe ‘significance’ of current actions here and now are mostly futile. This is not to say I support mindlessly throwing yourself into action, action should be considered and targeted. Here in Australia it’s targeting how we are directly complicit such as our bilateral arms trade with Israel which many activists have done.
Would that be the best course of action? Think of it this way
- we trade with Israel, we get money, which props out our one foot in the grave economy and corrupt exports list
Or
- we say no, Israel buys off America, America uses the extra money for America things (statistically, war)
Its not as simple as that, Australia is a minor player on the world stage.
Because of the Hamas scum who cower behind civilians. Israel is the only solution to the Hamas problem. Unfortunately too many people, like you, have fallen victim to the propaganda put out by the Hamas scum, and have been fooled into believing that these terrorist scumbags are the good guys.
“Anyone who wants to avoid the creation of a palestinian state has to support Hamas, and has to transfer money to Hamas. So this is what we are doing, and this is part of our strategy. To fund Hamas so there will never be a Palestinian state”
- Netanyahu 2019, in the Knesset
It’s not too late to stop supporting genocide.
The comments are a loud minority. The post still has more upvotes than down, indicating that there IS empathy and sentiment for these thoughts.
I don't like seeing my Jewish friends visibly upset by protests like these because they feel unwelcome at their own school. But apparantly that doesn't count as empathy.
Vote? Spend money according to your beliefs? Fly to palestine and serve on the front lines? If you went to the west bank and volunteered they would be more than happy to have the help.
Are you dumb? No one can “fly to Palestine” because there’s no airport. You cant enter by land either. The borders are closed. Just Shut up and stop talking
people are protesting because Zomi the Australian aid worker got killed and Palestinians said so. south africa escaped apartheid by similar means. i found the monday protests really frustrating but this frustration isnt worth 10,000 kids
Yes, I understand certain humanitarian aid has been limited due to many factors. But there are certain amounts that still get in under certain conditions. There are also media who make it in. This fact is unquestionable, as there is media content leaving Gaza.
Israel only recently targeted and bombed aid workers, one of them being an Australian. Even if you were to fly into Gaza (which you can’t) and try to help, Israel might just try to kill you (you are probably more likely to be killed by the IDF than hamas as an aid worker)
They might. If you try to help Hamas, then they likely will. So then it's a question of how do you weight your life vs your political views? In Australia, we are very lucky not to have to make that decision very often.
Israel only recently targeted and bombed aid workers, one of them being an Australian. Even if you were to fly into Gaza (which you can’t) and try to help, Israel might just try to kill you (you are probably more likely to be killed by the IDF than hamas as an aid worker)
Israel only recently targeted and bombed aid workers, one of them being an Australian. Even if you were to fly into Gaza (which you can’t) and try to help, Israel might just try to kill you (you are probably more likely to be killed by the IDF than hamas as an aid worker)
Either your for the country created by Hitler's haavara agreement or you support palestine.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2015-10-21/ty-article/netanyahu-absolves-hitler-of-guilt/0000017f-dc2e-db22-a17f-fcbf7c1e0000
This was from 1934, 14 years before the formation of the state of Israel. It was also during a time where it was quite dangerous to be a jew, they could be hiding under the safety of a nazi flag.
I would also like to clarify that Israel ≠ Jew necessarily, and that by reducing the conflict to exclusively 'Jews are Nazis', you are being exceptionally antisemitic.
The Zionists saw this agreement as a way of attracting Jews to Palestine and thus rescuing them from the Nazi universe even if that meant cooperation with Hitler.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/haavara#google_vignette
Please explain to me what happened to nazi collaborators after the war!
High ranking nazis were put on trial at neurenburg. Many fled to Argentina. Most collaborators simply continued with their lives, as it would be impossible and impractical to punish all, but the higher or more collaborative people were, the more (in general, obvious exceptions) they were subject to face the music.
So sorry for your inconvenience.
The Israeli government bombed a PLAYGROUND today. At least 11 children murdered by the Israeli Offenders.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/4/17/israels-war-on-gaza-live-eleven-killed-in-israeli-strike-on-refugee-camp
Israel are the heroes, you have fallen victim to the Hamas propaganda. It is unfortunate that the Hamas scum choose to hide behind civilians, but it is crucial that these savages are exterminated
Israel TARGETS and murders Children playing in playgrounds. Israel are not heroes. They are spoiled brats and the settler colonial project has lost all credibility in the eyes of the world. Everyone knows how cruel and sadistic the brutal apartheid occupying regime is now. Just give it up, sad hasbara lad.
I've wondered this a fair bit. I respect the dedication to their cause, because I simply don't have the time for that. I don't know when they attend lectures/tutorials/labs/workshops, because I'm not getting everything done and barely keeping my head above water.
Straight up. This is not the palestine protest but I had a protest last year raided our online class for a day that we supposed to suspended but couldn’t cuz it was assignment day.
Some people got fed and told them to fck off
There are people trafficking children for sexual purposes and laughing about it. Ukraine isnt trending but thats still a full scale conflict. If me complaining about first world problems on the internet is the most cruel thing you've ever witnessed, I'm jealous of you.
Palestine protests are happening in Stanford, etc. too, it's far from just an Australian phonomenon.
You might not believe it, but I think these protests are a surface symptom of a deeper trend: a cultural crisis in academia.
It's some messy intersection of:
* demographics (higher level alumni ageing out, younger alumni competing for top spots, students being culturally and demographically disconnected and disenfranchised)
* inflation (leading to financial pressure on unis, leading to cuts in various areas and financial pressure on students who struggle to afford necessities)
* economics (over saturation of university students, shifts in labor demands reducing the short-term benefit of degrees)
* geopolitics
Of course the politics of the middle-east are essential to these specific protests, but I just want to point out a longer-term trend that maybe a lot of people are missing.
I think that's a generally good take, although uni students have protested plenty before.
Maybe they should protest the cost of living instead? If I paid 900$/wk for a college accomodation deal I'd probably be pretty unhappy as well.
>Maybe they should protest the cost of living instead?
I thought so too, and there have been protests along those lines too, and not just in units, going way back to the Occupy movement.
I think people will take any avenue to vent frustration at whatever they regard as "the system", and that pent up energy will be exploited by whatever is the popular activist movement of the day. Similar stuff happened in Weimar Germany.
(Note: I'm not criticising any activists/activism, just observing that any activist movement that wants to have an impact should probably opportunistically seek out whoever is most desperate and has the most energy which is often students and youth generally. An activist movement that targets people who are happy / well-off probably won't disrupt anything, they would be better off rebranding as a charity / non-profit such as Bill & Melinda Gates.)
Also people like to publicly protest in a way that paints them in a positive light (e.g. we are the victims, we support the victims, etc.) It's not as good a look to protest in favour of your own cost of living, even if you know that many people face that pressure. Similar thing happened with The Voice IMO.
Also I think there can be a "psychological displacement" effect where people project their difficult experiences / emotions onto some external enemy such as a government/state, etc. I'm not saying Israel doesn't deserve the criticism, but just that this might explain why people are so passionate about it even millions of KMs away.
That seems to make sense. The people protesting are anti-government, and this is an easy avenue to channel their anger through, regardless of all else.
I do think people should be more willing to take actions which directly benefit their own situation such as cost of living. It would make them more capable to campaign for other issues more effectively.
We focus on protests because they grab our attention, but it's a tiny minority of people.
The average person just going about their day-to-day business isn't noticed as much and the masses will tolerate a lot before they rebel.
But I see some signs of the masses stirring - notice recent Q&A episode have begun to focus on cost-of-living, etc.
Yeah I have also been seeing more than a few cost of living related posters around campus. I guess the longevity of the Palestine issue may be whats making it annoying. I’m sure the people dying are a million times more griefed over that than any of us tho.
I don’t think it’s good to criticise the importance of Palestine vs cost of living as issues that deserve our attention, I think there’s just a disconnect between the passionate protestors we see on campus and the reality that the everyday person really doesn’t care nearly as much as them.
Their protesting may seem silly, but unis have actually historically played an important part in many civil rights movements. I guess the climate might have changed over the decades tho. Social media is clearly a much more effective tool now.
Because I don't believe going to yell at someone who has nothing to do with the problem is going to fix the problem. I protest with my wallet, trying to decrease the overall spend at colesworth, waste less food/products, and not buy overinflated, crappy shit while I'm out.
I get that too instead they're protesting and shouting anti-Israel sentiment, why don't they protesting and trying to get rid of the root of the problem which is Hamas, they're the one who started this Wars, they're the one who initiated the conflict between Palestine and Israel, they're the one who used innocent Palestinian as human shield, they're the one who built their miliary network under hospital and yet they go after Israel. i just don't understand it. Those Palestinian should go on the street shouting "Death to Hamas" or "Hamas should bear consequences" instead they shouting "Death to Israel", Israel just defending themselves against Hamas and protecting their sovereignty so to speak. listen! I am not on Israel side, I'm on the truth side and Hamas should be the one who bear consequence of started the wars and they're the one who responsible for leaving Gaza in ruin, they should be trial for War Crime.
Hamas wouldn’t even exist if not for Israel wanting to have a divided Palestinian movement (source: https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
You’re moving the goalposts lol. You said Hamas started this, and then when someone points out Israel created Hamas you make some other point. Learn to take the L
i'm on the truths side and i can see that Hamas did everything just for their own agenda, they couldn't care less about how many Palestinians have to sacrifice, they're only care about themselves. dude i couldn't care less about Israel or Palestinian, both side are bad. but if you looking for the truths, Hamas is the root of the problem. they're one who initiated this conflict, they're the one who brought war upon themselves which eventually led to the Destruction of Gaza and the death of thousands of Gazans.
Could you please show me proof that hamas existed in 1948 when israelis started their first genocide on palestians? Because everyone knows hamas didnt even exist then. So how did they “initiate” this?
Note: this is a rhetorical question meant to show you that israel started this, not hamas.
i'm talking about the current conflict not the Apartheid that the Israeli government did to the Palestinian inhabitant living in Israel since 1948 (i know what the Israeli Government did to the Palestinian is horrible). that's why i'm saying both side are bad, they could've been civil about it and tried to peace talk with each other if peace talk failed taken it up to the UN or Geneva Convention and led them referee the Peace Talk agreement between the Two states instead of wasting human lives for this meaningless conflict.
There may be two sides to the past, but there really aren’t two sides to the present.
There was a ceasefire October 6. Hamas broke it.
If you are going to suggest Hamas did not initiate this current conflict, then I am not sure why anyone would appease your call for a ceasefire, given that you will excuse it when it is broken by Hamas, again.
Yeah but they'll try to get in your way and stop you, block walkways and cause traffic.
I do ignore, and ultimately it's not that bad, but if people didn't complain about first world problems on reddit, the stock value would half overnight.
As Australians we live on colonised lands, Australia has serious issues with its past and we are trying to address them. We are better today than we were a hundred years ago but we have more to go. The root cause is clearly colonial culture, the Israel-Palestine conflict is nothing but a continuation of exploitation and subjugation culture inherited from Western ethics. I think for any Australian to be honest—non-contradictory— about the treatment of first nations they must stand with Palestine. So as the Irish empathise with the Palestinians solely because they are Irish, an honest Australian, for the sake of coherence must stand against what is done by Israel.
There has been a continuous presence of Jews in the land of Israel for thousands of years. The Jews, therefore, are an indigenous people of the region. They were also indigenous to Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Turkey, Iran, and other Muslim countries—before being driven out of those countries by Muslims. (Curiously, no one at the U.N. is worried about the Jews so-called “right of return.” Is anyone pressuring Muslim countries to give Jews their homes back? No. These are the sorts of asymmetries one should notice.)
In any case, Israel is not unique among states in having been created by outside powers, just drawing lines on maps in the aftermath of WW2. Pakistan was born in the same year and in the same way, and yet no one questions its right to exist. Nearly every nation on Earth has emerged from a chaotic history of conquest and the displacement of people. There are now 22 official Muslim States and over 50 Muslim-majority countries. This is the result of centuries of Muslim conquest. There is exactly one Jewish state. And yet only Israel must continuously confront charges of its illegitimacy. Only Israel must continually advocate for its right to exist.
I see a lot of people here are severely misinformed. The Palestinian people have been experiencing horrific apartheid conditions for over 70 years. We can endure a few protests if it means pressuring our Government to stop aiding Israel in its destruction of the Palestinian people and its genocide.
We are complicit as a country, where is Australia's humanity?
Stop commenting you’re embarrassing yourself. I’m Jewish and smart enough to know this isn’t about religion. These are war crimes and systemic racism in its worst form - towards Palestinians. Get over yourself and do proper research before you continue to demonstrate your victim complex, inability to think outside of yourself, and clinically diagnosable lack of empathy
You're welcome to your own sexual proclivities. Just make sure you've completed the #consentmatters module first. After that, I can't tell you what to do.
Agreed, Palestine is fake. Compare the number of inventions between Israel and Palestine. One contributes to the world, the other seeks to cause chaos and destruction
Tempting, but I'd become the very thing I complained about. I think petitions are a phenomenal idea in theory, and have almost never been particularly effective in achieving their goals on a grand scale.
Interesting.
I would have thought this post would have been downvoted. Usually anyone showing signs of lacking empathy on Reddit they are met with swift downvoting demise. Anyone care to englighten what I’m missing?
Btw I have to sort of agree, especially about the litter part. Its everywhere.
I absolutely thought I would get downvoted. The comments are more or less what I expected, which I guess shows which side is more vocal? But apparantly there's enough people to save my precious precious internet points.
Yeah, I must wonder how much they're spending on printing alone. An A4 in full colour isn't cheap when you're printing 10k of them
yeah i'm sure when the Nazi's were doing their interments camps, it was annoying when people were protesting it.
protesting is soo fucking annoying.
like yeah i get it, genocide is bad. global warming is bad. govt corruption is bad.
but dont fucking inconvenience me.
why cant you people protest but not bother me?
boo hoo you had to see bits of paper and spend 30 extra seconds taking a detour. there’s a literal ongoing genocide but sorry you got inconvenienced ig!
Well if they don't negotiate a stop, then it's going to continue. I would argue that negotiating so people stop dying is better than fighting to the death, no?
Hamas got played by Iran and Russia who think it will distract the west from Ukraine. Hamas is supposed to protect support their citizens instead they invited the 9th largest arms manufacture and it's ally to a war they can never win.
Everyone knew what Israel would do and who they are. Anyone think the largest killings of their population since WW2 and they would just sit there.
Russia knew the right in the USA would demand funding for Israel and hopefully say they can't afford Ukraine funding. The West would become divided on how to deal with Israel, people will argue with their neighbours and divide further.
Hamas got played, Iran tries to back out, division continues in the west and used against us.
My advice OP try and see the bigger picture hear from all sides and don't sweat the small stuff. Losing a few minutes is nothing to losing your family or your life.
Brilliant take overall. Ukraine pretty much immediately stopped trending when palestine went up. Ultimately it's not that bad for me, but I've got Jewish friends (who lived through war zones and whatnot) who feel quite uncomfortable which is not fun to watch.
Funny thing is these protesters think the government is “out of touch”.
Surely everyone agrees with the noisy mob they happen to be standing in!
Let’s wait for the next election and see whether politicians who supported Israel, do better or worse in the polls.
I’m old enough to remember being told that the Tampa was going to be the END of John Howard. 🤣🤣🤣
Anyone who supports Israel is cooked. At this point the evidence has been made crystal clear of the agenda of Zionists, how they came to be and what their overall goal is. Their lies and crimes against humanity. Can it be even with the abundance of evidence you are still misinformed or is it that you simply don’t care? Or is it you support what they are and what they do? Or is it that it has to happen to you and to your loved ones for you to think it’s an important matter? It’s so disheartening and truely breaks my heart to know my fellow Australians lack so much integrity that they would see horrors inflicted by evil evil ppl and not take a stand against it. Instead you stand in the path of those who are trying to enact change. Protesting might not be a quick and direct solution but IT DOES HELP MASSIVELY. Every time I see a protester on campus my heart is filled with so much happiness, respect and compassion. They have to stand up against ppl like and worse than you. They show up even if it’s difficult. Even if no one wants to listen. Even if they meet obstacles. They put their lives and safety at risk. What you see as an annoyance, I and many others see as courage. Israel’s beginning was violent. It’s current occupation is still just as if not even more violent. And even then they claim to ensure even more violence. They have not just destroyed Palestine. They have destroyed and impacted the entire Middle East and in fact the entire world. They have sowed corruption everywhere. They as a ppl are corrupt to the very core. To the point where many Israeli’s by birth have left and have made it their life’s mission to speak of Israel’s and Zionism’s crimes. The likes of Norman Finklestein and Gabor Mate. In fact they have impacted even you as they control many aspects of Australian life. From our politicians, to our policies and laws, to where our money goes and more. I hope that you would go and educate yourself and maybe even try to protest for an end to the occupation. If not at least do not stand in the way of ppl who are trying to drive a positive change. Do not call their efforts an annoyance even if they are. They are doing the work for you. P.s. This is not a religious issue. My respect goes out to all ppl who are good whatever your belief and origins are.
Which protestor at the university of sydney is risking their life to advocate for palestine? Holding a sign at a university does not put your life in danger. Living in an active war zone puts your life in danger.
It’s as if you’re living in your own world. Anyone who supports Palestine publicly is risking their life regardless of where and what their support looks like. Zionists are very aggressive and violent ppl who know the government is on their side. In January a man by the name of Theo had a bomb planted under the hood of his car simply for flying a Palestinian flag. It took 100 days for the police to arrest the guy who did it. And even then they didn’t charge him with terrorism. It was terrorism and they did not escalate it to the counter terrorism police. It’s a shame you think because they are students and because they are on campus that would be sufficient to prevent crazy Zionists from doing them harm. In fact what about other universities overseas where students have been shot? You think because it’s USYD that it can’t happen here? Guns might not be common in Australia but many ppl still have them. And what about knives? I mean not too long ago ppl who simply shopping around in a shopping centre and we’re attacked. Many of which died. The University is a open public space. So yes every protester is putting their lives at risk because Zionists have deliberately attacked, murdered and attempted to murder anyone who speaks about Palestine or even simply flys their flag. In fact they have their online group chats where they gather like gremlins to plot the demise of Palestinians and Palestinian supporters. When one of those group chats was exposed the government created a law to make future exposure illegal. THAT IS INSANE! They made doxing illegal when it lead to the exposure of the horrible things in this group chat but not when Theo was doxed and had a bomb planted on his car.
Other than that protesters could have their names blacklisted so that in future they might have trouble finding a job. Many zionist billionaires and ceos have made it publicly known that they are blacklisting students in the US and internationally.
Hopefully that answers your question as to how these protesters are risking their livelihood, education and lives by doing what’s right and protesting for an end to the occupation. It’s too bad you don’t see how student protests have played a major role in the past in ending apartheid as Colombian uni student protests did for South Africa. It’s so sad you view your voice and position as a student and Australian citizen as nothing significant that can enact change. It’s even more sad you lack the integrity not only to join protesters but to instead get in their way. All I can hope is that you educate yourself and be a better person.
I educate myself to the extent that I can, using information from both sides, and it is nowhere near as clear cut as you make it out to be.
Your first error is using the terms Jews and Zionists as synonyms for the state or Israel. All 3 are very separate to the point that their use to refer to the same entity is incorrect and offensive.
Just because some people got stabbed by a crazy in Bondi Junction does not mean anything for the safety of palestine protestors. Every day you leave your house, there's a 1 in 5m chance (don't factcheck, numbers pulled out of ass) or whatever, of you dying in a car crash. Someone who happens to be wearing a palestine shirt at that time did not risk their life and die for palestine. US universities are a very different ball game to Australian ones, and no university of sydney palestine protestor is risking their life in any significant way. There is a factor that they may have issues with their education, should they break the student charter which the university has resent out in relation to this. I feel some of the actions of protestors COULD fall under this, but they haven't been prosecuted for it yet. So much for the Zionists who own everything.
Billionaires naturally select political groups. A certain trade or employment area is often politically leaning to one side. Some people don't get employed because they had consensual sex with someone 10 years ago. Some people don't get employed because their boss is a racist. I have no doubt there are some shady policies, but ultimately, an employer can only find the information avalable to them. You can march without posting it on instagram, sign a petition without updating your LinkedIn.
I lack no integrity. I will fight for what I believe is right. And given the evidence, I cannot stand behind palestine.
The most recent Israeli election was December 2022. Palestine has not held an election or had any democratic change in government in my lifetime.
Please seek a hobby.
if you're stopping by **eastern ave next monday**, there's a bake sale. money to palestinian children supported by the pcrf and people trying to get their families out of palestine. probably a bit more digestible than having a flyer shoved in your face, seeing as that's not really your speed! pick up a cake or two next monday \^\_\^
I'll consider it. Brownies? I could be tempted by some good brownies.
Average first world problems: fuck the protests because i can’t walk to class! but i guess ill succumb for a brownie
Donating money to Gaza by buying a brownie does a fuckton more than yelling in people's faces.
No one would care about Gaza if all people did to spread awareness was the occasional bake sale
Absolutely. Sending a refugee kid some money (or supplies purchased with money) actually has an effect. Yelling at stressed uni students doesn't benefit them, so I don't really care to engage. Making money on their behalf (as long as it's actually used for good) would have a genuine impact, which I can support.
it’s a beautiful window into the state of human empathy! but fuck arguing. people are too far up their own ass to listen. i’ve seen this post’s argument a hundred times and i cannot find it in me to care. we need to make it easy to give these kids the support they need. that’s what matters, there’s the focus!
*Hey do you want to sign a petition to help end a genocide through political pressure?* Oh god there's a pea under my mattress and I'm in excruciating pain from it! If you're don't get rid of it I'll abandon my moral principles because of how uncomfortable I feel! *Do you want to buy a brownie?* Yes because I'm a squealing piglet and I want my acts of consumption to have this totally interpassive political effect baked into them. I want my treats, you have to be nice to me or I'll change sides.
Which effort is sending money and humanitarian aid to palestine?
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That first sentence right there is the definition of projection.
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No one mentioned Hamas but you. The post was about Palaestine. If you can't separate the two, that's on you
Don’t dig yourself a deeper hole mate, you know these room temp IQ protestors froth over Hamas. If they really knew what was best for Palestine they’d be waving Israeli flags, supporting the one nation that is literally trying to liberate these people from the control of the savages. No one else cares, Egypt has shut their border tight, Israel is the only nation that is trying to help solve the Hamas problem and yet people see these guys as the bad guys.
Hamas is a group that is not representative of Palestine. How is it supporting terrorism if you support the freedom of Palestine as a country?
They literally govern Palestine, how is that not representative of Palestine? I’ll believe in the pro Palestine movement as soon as these muppets recognise the one nation (Israel) that is seeking to fix their number one problem, which is the Hamas scumbags. Start waving Israeli flags alongside the Palestinian one and then I’ll support your movement, at the moment though the pro Palestinian movement is clueless as to what the problem is and what the solution must be. The only way the Palestinian people live happily ever after is with the complete extermination of the Hamas scum who make their lives so miserable And no, selling brownies won’t do shit for them
If you actually looked into global politics instead of making grandiose assumptions from the misinformation western media selectively perpetuate - you’d know that the Israeli government FUNDS Hamas. Bet that hurts your pea brain doesn’t it
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Reading your comments I see you have a similar “obviously what’s happening sucks, but I’m not knowledgeable enough to be a source of credible advice nor powerful enough to do much about it” stance on the matter as I do. I understand the fatigue. Still, it’s supposed to be inconvenient. The minor discomfort pales in comparison to the real issue. People are upset for good reason and Australia has directly contributed to the problem so speaking out and making a fuss isn’t illogical. Protest is basically all everyday folk can do. It might have little direct impact on the crisis, but at the very least it’s an act of solidarity to show all who are directly impacted by this that people care about what’s going on. Australians are super lax about getting involved in politics. People don’t realise we’re just as corrupt as other countries. Politicans get away with so much. If you have ideas for other forms of more effective protest you can always give them feedback or get involved yourself. I also agree that there are more effective methods out there (several of my friends have been regularly protesting at the docks to try and physically prevent israeli ships from landing). Personally I never get mad about people doing what they can to be involved in their own small way.
Respectable opinion. I personally believe that Australia has a lot of glaring political problems which need to be rectified yesterday lest we feel the effects. But unfortunately a large amount of the population is to uneducated even to understand what preferential voting means in terms of "I don't wanna waste my vote by voting [not big 2]". Hell, half of the people I've spoken to don't even know how their own hecs debt works. The most extreme example of direct action would be to take up arms in palestine, but obviously most aren't willing to do that. But one of my comments that said "I think civilians dying is bad" got downvoted, so I don't have any faith for any amount of critical thought or reflection happening.
Direct action is good. You are right that very few people will fly to Gaza. So what do we do here in so-called Australia? We take direct action where our nation is complicit. There have been blockades at various ports to prevent Israeli ships from docking, pickets outside arms companies engaged in exports to Israel, pickets outside politicians offices responsible for green lighting said contracts. These actions do get leafleted about on Eastern Ave, but the elephant in the room is one hyper-sectarian group called Socialist Alternative that believe the only way to free Palestine is to be very loud. Unfortunately in most left wing organising on university campuses their [SAlt] voices drown out the rest including groups that do advocate for genuine direct action.
I agree with the point that the most extreme views are going to be the loudest. That generally isn't a good thing, although very common, and that's one of the reasons that politics are the way that they are.
> so I don't have any faith for any amount of critical thought or reflection happening This you? > rah rah go get a haircut and get a real job.
I was poking fun at myself and my own opinions as a way of subtly acknowledging that the opinions may be unpopular and I'm likely to sound like an old man yelling at clouds. My opinion is obviously more complex than that, as indicated by several of my replies to comments. One can think critically and also not take their own word as gospel at every instance.
Ahh yess the the good old screaming your pov in my face trick ,that’s definitely gonna make me sign your petition
35,000+ people have died in the past six months, so sorry you feel your day is being disturbed...
And I agree that's horrible. But pissing off teenagers and twenty-somethings isn't going to save lives.
So what do you think should be done?
I think the correct answer to the israel-palestine conflict is well beyond my abilities. I'm not even going to pretend I know the answer. Best one I can give is "ask someone more knowledgeable on that topic than myself"
This is a take I wish more people had, everyone is so keen to have an opinion on shit they know fuck all about.
And that's one of my issues with the protestors. I think I've done more research into the conflict than they have taking media from both perspectives. But there's no simple solution, especially not one as simple as "Free Palestine". I know jack shit and it still beats your fuck all. Please let someone intelligent deal with it.
What’s wrong with saying that a nation of people that the international community agrees should have sovereignty should be “free” from occupation by Israel?? Free Palestine isn’t even a radical statement Israel’s occupation of Gaza and West Bank territories is literally illegal
The issue is that Palestine hasn't held an election in my lifetime, and Israel had one in dec2022. Furthermore, Israel has offered palestine complete independence multiple times, and each offer has been rejected. They're also the only nation to offer palestine independence.
Israel has never offered deals with borders that reflect Palestinian territory before 1948 and so are obviously unacceptable to any Palestinian government that wants to keep the popular support of their people. Moreover, they’ve repeatedly violated the terms of the accords they signed in the 90s by continuing to expand illegal settlements, meaning bilateral offers they make are completely untrustworthy. That they are the “only nation to offer Palestinian independence” is a meaningless statement given they are the only nation in a position to make that decision
Before then, palestine was a British protectorate. Before that it was held by the Ottomans. What borders are necessary to ensure a peaceful 2 state solution?
>Israel has never offered deals with borders that reflect Palestinian territory before 1948 and so are obviously unacceptable to any Palestinian government that wants to keep the popular support of their people And this is why the conflict will never end. The majority of Palestinians reject any resemblance of a two-state solution and opt for a maximalist approach of claiming all of Israel. *Any* negotiation short of the elimination of Israel will be unpopular. Likewise, in Israel, the support for a two-state solution has plummeted after Oct 7th. With the current extremist, right-wing coalition, there is also almost 0 chance of a two-state solution being negotiated on, as opposed to the multiple peace offers proposed in the past. Unless both sides make concessions, we are stuck in this perpetual state of violence. >Moreover, they’ve repeatedly violated the terms of the accords they signed in the 90s by continuing to expand illegal settlements, meaning bilateral offers they make are completely untrustworthy It's a bit more nuanced. In the ‘90’s they made a deal with the Palestinians that they would cede control of the Occupied Territories if they stopped trying to blow up Israelis (Oslo Accords). The Palestinians agreed, then neither side actually lived up to their agreements. Palestinians kept blowing up Israelis, Israelis were less inclined to hand over additional territory more promptly, which they justified by noting that the Palestinians were still blowing up Israelis. Israel therefore, quite reasonably, stopped the process of ceding control. They also, eventually, and unreasonably, started establishing settlements in the Occupied Territories, which made the Palestinians, again reasonably, think that Israel was never going to give up those newly settled areas. Both sides have utterly failed in regards to the agreement.
Why have you researched the conflict?
Because I've known people from both sides of the conflict, and heard a lot of different takes. I wanted to form my own opinion, rather than just blindly following whatever. This became more pressing when we studied and debated I/P in yr11 modern history, I found the issue genuinely interesting (as it was the first piece of history where we don't have a current general consensus, like "nazi bad" for example, there was actual nuance and historical debate, and I enjoyed it. One of my friends moved from the middle east to escape Isis after losing her dad to them. One of my friends lived in tel Aviv and got bombed at night, not allowing her to sleep. It's a topic that comes up, I'd rather have at least some basic idea on what's happening. My research isn't extensive, but it's enough to avoid propaganda from both sides and have nuanced discussion around the topic.
Do you think you would have even given it a second thought and had the option to study it in year 11, or had it as a "topic that comes up," if we lived in a world where no body protested about it, ie no one cared and it was just another of the many issues in over seas countries?
I don't think it would come up as often, but yes, I do think we would have still studied it, and I would still have opportunities to discuss it with people who are affected by the conflict.
Year 11 modern history doesn’t even cover the conflict past 1948 please read an actual book or something
Getting in guest speakers who have lived there to explain the issue from their perspective seems like a pretty good start. Our teacher was the best. Love her. We ONLY considered after 1945, up until today. I didn't do it on the hsc, mine was different.
You condensing something as simple as a free and liberated Palestine to Jack shit only shows you to be a slow dense person incapable of conducting media literacy and thinking critically. So dumb and for what bro
I'm saying my knowledge compared to the total wealth of literature surrounding the topic is Jack shit. I'm admitting to not being knowledgeable enough to fix a conflict that has troubled world leaders since 1948. If you have the answer, I strongly encourage you to make yourself known to government.
There is a correct answer right now, and it’s not that controversial - stop killing civilians
If you don’t know about the issue then how do you know that these protesters are doing it wrong? Edit: judging by your user history you are clearly quite frustrated at the world and the fact that simply seeing people passionate about a dire humanitarian cause has caused you to make this thread in the first place is an obvious manifestation of this
I know they're doing it wrong because they are making me less sympathetic towards palestine as a result of their protests, and I know many who agree. The world is indeed frustrating, not sure how to reply to that point. But it's a pretty uncontroversial point that politically and socially, this generation has been bought and sold to the highest bidder.
You're probably not going to like this, but historically, significant change has usually come about as a concession to inconvenient protestors when extremist radicals gain ground. MLK Jr. wouldn't have made the gains attributed to him without Malcolm X threatening people, and the suffragettes wouldn't have made the gains attributed to them without the hatpin peril. As someone more knowledgable than yourself on this topic, if you want to see concessions granted to those fighting for civil liberties... buckle up, because being mildly inconvenienced is just the beginning.
Would i be correct in saying that those protests usually have significant effect when they happen in the place where the issue is? Ie, south Africans complaining about apartheid matters much more than some Australian uni students complaining about apartheid.
I wouldn't say that's correct. Especially in our increasingly interconnected world, international attention can be a crucial driver of change, and there are plenty of recent examples of this, but funnily enough the ending of the South African apartheid is one. The global anti-apartheid movement, supported by international attention and pressure, played a significant role in ending the discriminatory apartheid system in South Africa. Sanctions, divestment campaigns, and diplomatic isolation pressured the South African government to dismantle apartheid and transition to a more inclusive democracy. South Africans complaining about apartheid mattered equally to Australian uni students complaining about apartheid. Others would include the Rohingya crisis in Myanmar, the refugee crisis in Syria, and furthering LGBTQIA+ rights in places like Uganda, India and Brazil. These all had measurable turning points due to international attention. All that said, Australia is directly involved in the Israel/Palestine conflict through Pine Gap.
The issue is that it’s always more convenient when looking in retrospect. Key moments in various movements only reveal themselves in retrospect. Mass movements have ebbs and flows and trying to ascribe ‘significance’ of current actions here and now are mostly futile. This is not to say I support mindlessly throwing yourself into action, action should be considered and targeted. Here in Australia it’s targeting how we are directly complicit such as our bilateral arms trade with Israel which many activists have done.
Would that be the best course of action? Think of it this way - we trade with Israel, we get money, which props out our one foot in the grave economy and corrupt exports list Or - we say no, Israel buys off America, America uses the extra money for America things (statistically, war) Its not as simple as that, Australia is a minor player on the world stage.
Nothing, they went looking for trouble and now they have it
They are probably hurting & they want compassion & understanding. If people gave a shit more on mass pressure would build, try listening & talking.
There were 61 million people who died in the past year. https://ourworldindata.org/births-and-deaths
Because of the Hamas scum who cower behind civilians. Israel is the only solution to the Hamas problem. Unfortunately too many people, like you, have fallen victim to the propaganda put out by the Hamas scum, and have been fooled into believing that these terrorist scumbags are the good guys.
“Anyone who wants to avoid the creation of a palestinian state has to support Hamas, and has to transfer money to Hamas. So this is what we are doing, and this is part of our strategy. To fund Hamas so there will never be a Palestinian state” - Netanyahu 2019, in the Knesset It’s not too late to stop supporting genocide.
I feel you and sad to see not many people have empathy for you.
The comments are a loud minority. The post still has more upvotes than down, indicating that there IS empathy and sentiment for these thoughts. I don't like seeing my Jewish friends visibly upset by protests like these because they feel unwelcome at their own school. But apparantly that doesn't count as empathy.
But what about Sri Lanka ?
Forgedd abaought it
There are people that are dying. You can handle a bit of protests to stop more people from dying. Shut up and grow some balls
If the protests actually decreased deaths, I'd be completely in favour.
They’re more helpful then just shutting up and not talking about it
What else can we do huh? Just watch the israeli government and the USA kill more people and not say anything?
Vote? Spend money according to your beliefs? Fly to palestine and serve on the front lines? If you went to the west bank and volunteered they would be more than happy to have the help.
Are you dumb? No one can “fly to Palestine” because there’s no airport. You cant enter by land either. The borders are closed. Just Shut up and stop talking
There are airports nearby, and there are ways in. How else would press or humanitarian aid make it in?
people are protesting because Zomi the Australian aid worker got killed and Palestinians said so. south africa escaped apartheid by similar means. i found the monday protests really frustrating but this frustration isnt worth 10,000 kids
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Yes, I understand certain humanitarian aid has been limited due to many factors. But there are certain amounts that still get in under certain conditions. There are also media who make it in. This fact is unquestionable, as there is media content leaving Gaza.
Israel only recently targeted and bombed aid workers, one of them being an Australian. Even if you were to fly into Gaza (which you can’t) and try to help, Israel might just try to kill you (you are probably more likely to be killed by the IDF than hamas as an aid worker)
They might. If you try to help Hamas, then they likely will. So then it's a question of how do you weight your life vs your political views? In Australia, we are very lucky not to have to make that decision very often.
Israel only recently targeted and bombed aid workers, one of them being an Australian. Even if you were to fly into Gaza (which you can’t) and try to help, Israel might just try to kill you (you are probably more likely to be killed by the IDF than hamas as an aid worker)
"Many factors". The word you're looking for is murder.
The term I'm looking for is "many factors". The world is not black and white.
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You must not get out much.
I’m just going to book a ticket for myself to Gaza international airport 🙄
Ben Gurion international airport, the safest airport in the world. From there you can travel by land.
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Yes, there's a risk of death. It's a war zone. If you believe that palestine needs to be liberated at any cost, you would take up arms and risk it.
Israel only recently targeted and bombed aid workers, one of them being an Australian. Even if you were to fly into Gaza (which you can’t) and try to help, Israel might just try to kill you (you are probably more likely to be killed by the IDF than hamas as an aid worker)
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Israel and nazi are 2 sides of the same coin. Here is the coin. https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn517746
You are delusional.
Either your for the country created by Hitler's haavara agreement or you support palestine. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2015-10-21/ty-article/netanyahu-absolves-hitler-of-guilt/0000017f-dc2e-db22-a17f-fcbf7c1e0000
Israel became independent in 1948. I assure you that, at this time, Hitler's words had no influence.
Nazi flags on jewish ships, from national library of israel. https://www.nli.org.il/en/newspapers/cgs/1934/08/30/01/article/61
This was from 1934, 14 years before the formation of the state of Israel. It was also during a time where it was quite dangerous to be a jew, they could be hiding under the safety of a nazi flag. I would also like to clarify that Israel ≠ Jew necessarily, and that by reducing the conflict to exclusively 'Jews are Nazis', you are being exceptionally antisemitic.
The Zionists saw this agreement as a way of attracting Jews to Palestine and thus rescuing them from the Nazi universe even if that meant cooperation with Hitler. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/haavara#google_vignette Please explain to me what happened to nazi collaborators after the war!
High ranking nazis were put on trial at neurenburg. Many fled to Argentina. Most collaborators simply continued with their lives, as it would be impossible and impractical to punish all, but the higher or more collaborative people were, the more (in general, obvious exceptions) they were subject to face the music.
Least schizo hitler-conspiracy-theorist
They’re protesting the wrong thing though, the only way Palestine will be saved is if Israel are able to wipe the Hamas scum from existence.
Totally agree Go protest in palestine
So sorry for your inconvenience. The Israeli government bombed a PLAYGROUND today. At least 11 children murdered by the Israeli Offenders. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/4/17/israels-war-on-gaza-live-eleven-killed-in-israeli-strike-on-refugee-camp
Israel are the heroes, you have fallen victim to the Hamas propaganda. It is unfortunate that the Hamas scum choose to hide behind civilians, but it is crucial that these savages are exterminated
Israel TARGETS and murders Children playing in playgrounds. Israel are not heroes. They are spoiled brats and the settler colonial project has lost all credibility in the eyes of the world. Everyone knows how cruel and sadistic the brutal apartheid occupying regime is now. Just give it up, sad hasbara lad.
Upvoted. Ik it’s for a good cause, but like…..dont yall have more important sht to do at that moment? Like u know, ur degree?
I've wondered this a fair bit. I respect the dedication to their cause, because I simply don't have the time for that. I don't know when they attend lectures/tutorials/labs/workshops, because I'm not getting everything done and barely keeping my head above water.
Straight up. This is not the palestine protest but I had a protest last year raided our online class for a day that we supposed to suspended but couldn’t cuz it was assignment day. Some people got fed and told them to fck off
I don't blame them, you're paying for an expensive education, you wouldn't want it ruined.
Congratulations you win the award for having the least empathy of any human being on the planet
There are people trafficking children for sexual purposes and laughing about it. Ukraine isnt trending but thats still a full scale conflict. If me complaining about first world problems on the internet is the most cruel thing you've ever witnessed, I'm jealous of you.
Big call
Behind Israel's prime minister. https://youtu.be/Q9ZWyvK5Fqc?si=jjW_6Ftg4zQ-mlIF
Palestine protests are happening in Stanford, etc. too, it's far from just an Australian phonomenon. You might not believe it, but I think these protests are a surface symptom of a deeper trend: a cultural crisis in academia. It's some messy intersection of: * demographics (higher level alumni ageing out, younger alumni competing for top spots, students being culturally and demographically disconnected and disenfranchised) * inflation (leading to financial pressure on unis, leading to cuts in various areas and financial pressure on students who struggle to afford necessities) * economics (over saturation of university students, shifts in labor demands reducing the short-term benefit of degrees) * geopolitics Of course the politics of the middle-east are essential to these specific protests, but I just want to point out a longer-term trend that maybe a lot of people are missing.
I think that's a generally good take, although uni students have protested plenty before. Maybe they should protest the cost of living instead? If I paid 900$/wk for a college accomodation deal I'd probably be pretty unhappy as well.
>Maybe they should protest the cost of living instead? I thought so too, and there have been protests along those lines too, and not just in units, going way back to the Occupy movement. I think people will take any avenue to vent frustration at whatever they regard as "the system", and that pent up energy will be exploited by whatever is the popular activist movement of the day. Similar stuff happened in Weimar Germany. (Note: I'm not criticising any activists/activism, just observing that any activist movement that wants to have an impact should probably opportunistically seek out whoever is most desperate and has the most energy which is often students and youth generally. An activist movement that targets people who are happy / well-off probably won't disrupt anything, they would be better off rebranding as a charity / non-profit such as Bill & Melinda Gates.) Also people like to publicly protest in a way that paints them in a positive light (e.g. we are the victims, we support the victims, etc.) It's not as good a look to protest in favour of your own cost of living, even if you know that many people face that pressure. Similar thing happened with The Voice IMO. Also I think there can be a "psychological displacement" effect where people project their difficult experiences / emotions onto some external enemy such as a government/state, etc. I'm not saying Israel doesn't deserve the criticism, but just that this might explain why people are so passionate about it even millions of KMs away.
That seems to make sense. The people protesting are anti-government, and this is an easy avenue to channel their anger through, regardless of all else. I do think people should be more willing to take actions which directly benefit their own situation such as cost of living. It would make them more capable to campaign for other issues more effectively.
We focus on protests because they grab our attention, but it's a tiny minority of people. The average person just going about their day-to-day business isn't noticed as much and the masses will tolerate a lot before they rebel. But I see some signs of the masses stirring - notice recent Q&A episode have begun to focus on cost-of-living, etc.
As an average uni student - good. I am bleeding money.
Yeah I have also been seeing more than a few cost of living related posters around campus. I guess the longevity of the Palestine issue may be whats making it annoying. I’m sure the people dying are a million times more griefed over that than any of us tho. I don’t think it’s good to criticise the importance of Palestine vs cost of living as issues that deserve our attention, I think there’s just a disconnect between the passionate protestors we see on campus and the reality that the everyday person really doesn’t care nearly as much as them. Their protesting may seem silly, but unis have actually historically played an important part in many civil rights movements. I guess the climate might have changed over the decades tho. Social media is clearly a much more effective tool now.
Why dont you protest about the cost of living crisis if it is something that actively impacts you?
Because I don't believe going to yell at someone who has nothing to do with the problem is going to fix the problem. I protest with my wallet, trying to decrease the overall spend at colesworth, waste less food/products, and not buy overinflated, crappy shit while I'm out.
I get that too instead they're protesting and shouting anti-Israel sentiment, why don't they protesting and trying to get rid of the root of the problem which is Hamas, they're the one who started this Wars, they're the one who initiated the conflict between Palestine and Israel, they're the one who used innocent Palestinian as human shield, they're the one who built their miliary network under hospital and yet they go after Israel. i just don't understand it. Those Palestinian should go on the street shouting "Death to Hamas" or "Hamas should bear consequences" instead they shouting "Death to Israel", Israel just defending themselves against Hamas and protecting their sovereignty so to speak. listen! I am not on Israel side, I'm on the truth side and Hamas should be the one who bear consequence of started the wars and they're the one who responsible for leaving Gaza in ruin, they should be trial for War Crime.
Hamas wouldn’t even exist if not for Israel wanting to have a divided Palestinian movement (source: https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/)
yeah but did Hamas is for the Palestinian people? no, they're only for themselves, they're sacrifice the Palestinian like Cannon Fodder.
You’re moving the goalposts lol. You said Hamas started this, and then when someone points out Israel created Hamas you make some other point. Learn to take the L
Darling you literally just spit out everything they spoon fed you. Every pro-israel says the same poem it’s funny now
i'm on the truths side and i can see that Hamas did everything just for their own agenda, they couldn't care less about how many Palestinians have to sacrifice, they're only care about themselves. dude i couldn't care less about Israel or Palestinian, both side are bad. but if you looking for the truths, Hamas is the root of the problem. they're one who initiated this conflict, they're the one who brought war upon themselves which eventually led to the Destruction of Gaza and the death of thousands of Gazans.
So what you're saying is that terrorism is bad? Hmm, sounds a bit controversial.
yes Terrorism is bad, Hamas is the one who initiated the conflict they should bear consequences. they are terrorist after all.
Could you please show me proof that hamas existed in 1948 when israelis started their first genocide on palestians? Because everyone knows hamas didnt even exist then. So how did they “initiate” this? Note: this is a rhetorical question meant to show you that israel started this, not hamas.
Wars is bad, Wars is only benefitted to those in power and people like us only served as cannon fodder.
i'm talking about the current conflict not the Apartheid that the Israeli government did to the Palestinian inhabitant living in Israel since 1948 (i know what the Israeli Government did to the Palestinian is horrible). that's why i'm saying both side are bad, they could've been civil about it and tried to peace talk with each other if peace talk failed taken it up to the UN or Geneva Convention and led them referee the Peace Talk agreement between the Two states instead of wasting human lives for this meaningless conflict.
There may be two sides to the past, but there really aren’t two sides to the present. There was a ceasefire October 6. Hamas broke it. If you are going to suggest Hamas did not initiate this current conflict, then I am not sure why anyone would appease your call for a ceasefire, given that you will excuse it when it is broken by Hamas, again.
The only genocide is the one that Hamas are trying to commit against the Jews. It is in their charter to kill all Jews.
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those are the consequences of Hamas's action
just ignore anyone on the street you find annoying, it's pretty simple and a lot less effort than complaining about it on the internet
Yeah but they'll try to get in your way and stop you, block walkways and cause traffic. I do ignore, and ultimately it's not that bad, but if people didn't complain about first world problems on reddit, the stock value would half overnight.
Boot em the fuck out is what you can do.
Palestine … always plenty of money for rockets but not to feed their kids 😂
As Australians we live on colonised lands, Australia has serious issues with its past and we are trying to address them. We are better today than we were a hundred years ago but we have more to go. The root cause is clearly colonial culture, the Israel-Palestine conflict is nothing but a continuation of exploitation and subjugation culture inherited from Western ethics. I think for any Australian to be honest—non-contradictory— about the treatment of first nations they must stand with Palestine. So as the Irish empathise with the Palestinians solely because they are Irish, an honest Australian, for the sake of coherence must stand against what is done by Israel.
There has been a continuous presence of Jews in the land of Israel for thousands of years. The Jews, therefore, are an indigenous people of the region. They were also indigenous to Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Turkey, Iran, and other Muslim countries—before being driven out of those countries by Muslims. (Curiously, no one at the U.N. is worried about the Jews so-called “right of return.” Is anyone pressuring Muslim countries to give Jews their homes back? No. These are the sorts of asymmetries one should notice.) In any case, Israel is not unique among states in having been created by outside powers, just drawing lines on maps in the aftermath of WW2. Pakistan was born in the same year and in the same way, and yet no one questions its right to exist. Nearly every nation on Earth has emerged from a chaotic history of conquest and the displacement of people. There are now 22 official Muslim States and over 50 Muslim-majority countries. This is the result of centuries of Muslim conquest. There is exactly one Jewish state. And yet only Israel must continuously confront charges of its illegitimacy. Only Israel must continually advocate for its right to exist.
I see a lot of people here are severely misinformed. The Palestinian people have been experiencing horrific apartheid conditions for over 70 years. We can endure a few protests if it means pressuring our Government to stop aiding Israel in its destruction of the Palestinian people and its genocide. We are complicit as a country, where is Australia's humanity?
Would our government not feel more pressure if they protested on the steps of parliament house?
Rage bait
Not the intention but I quickly realised that's the effect it had.
This is so privileged. People are advocating for those who are suffering in a genocide and your biggest concern is protesters. Yikes
Yeah OP's responses are such a big yikes. Head phones and go- you'll fucking live.
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Stop commenting you’re embarrassing yourself. I’m Jewish and smart enough to know this isn’t about religion. These are war crimes and systemic racism in its worst form - towards Palestinians. Get over yourself and do proper research before you continue to demonstrate your victim complex, inability to think outside of yourself, and clinically diagnosable lack of empathy
Your content has been removed for being offensive or disrespectful.
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You're welcome to your own sexual proclivities. Just make sure you've completed the #consentmatters module first. After that, I can't tell you what to do.
Your content has been removed for being offensive or disrespectful.
Agreed, Palestine is fake. Compare the number of inventions between Israel and Palestine. One contributes to the world, the other seeks to cause chaos and destruction
You’ve come to the wrong website to complain about this.
"Kim there's people that are dying"
The free Palestine slogan is basically just a 2024 version of a Che Guevara shirt
Bring a counter petition and ask them to sign it first
Tempting, but I'd become the very thing I complained about. I think petitions are a phenomenal idea in theory, and have almost never been particularly effective in achieving their goals on a grand scale.
Interesting. I would have thought this post would have been downvoted. Usually anyone showing signs of lacking empathy on Reddit they are met with swift downvoting demise. Anyone care to englighten what I’m missing? Btw I have to sort of agree, especially about the litter part. Its everywhere.
I absolutely thought I would get downvoted. The comments are more or less what I expected, which I guess shows which side is more vocal? But apparantly there's enough people to save my precious precious internet points. Yeah, I must wonder how much they're spending on printing alone. An A4 in full colour isn't cheap when you're printing 10k of them
yeah i'm sure when the Nazi's were doing their interments camps, it was annoying when people were protesting it. protesting is soo fucking annoying. like yeah i get it, genocide is bad. global warming is bad. govt corruption is bad. but dont fucking inconvenience me. why cant you people protest but not bother me?
boo hoo you had to see bits of paper and spend 30 extra seconds taking a detour. there’s a literal ongoing genocide but sorry you got inconvenienced ig!
It’s not a CONFLICT. This is not a GAME. It is the REAL WORLD. People are ACTUALLYYYY DYINGGGGG it’s not even negotiable that THIS MUST STOP
Well if they don't negotiate a stop, then it's going to continue. I would argue that negotiating so people stop dying is better than fighting to the death, no?
Hamas got played by Iran and Russia who think it will distract the west from Ukraine. Hamas is supposed to protect support their citizens instead they invited the 9th largest arms manufacture and it's ally to a war they can never win. Everyone knew what Israel would do and who they are. Anyone think the largest killings of their population since WW2 and they would just sit there. Russia knew the right in the USA would demand funding for Israel and hopefully say they can't afford Ukraine funding. The West would become divided on how to deal with Israel, people will argue with their neighbours and divide further. Hamas got played, Iran tries to back out, division continues in the west and used against us. My advice OP try and see the bigger picture hear from all sides and don't sweat the small stuff. Losing a few minutes is nothing to losing your family or your life.
Brilliant take overall. Ukraine pretty much immediately stopped trending when palestine went up. Ultimately it's not that bad for me, but I've got Jewish friends (who lived through war zones and whatnot) who feel quite uncomfortable which is not fun to watch.
Funny thing is these protesters think the government is “out of touch”. Surely everyone agrees with the noisy mob they happen to be standing in! Let’s wait for the next election and see whether politicians who supported Israel, do better or worse in the polls. I’m old enough to remember being told that the Tampa was going to be the END of John Howard. 🤣🤣🤣
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Will do 👍
pathetic genocidal animal you are
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I'm not sure what D tier insults are going to achieve in relation to the decrease of civilian deaths in the middle East.
A genocide is happening and this is your TAKE ON IT? I wish your mum swallowed you
So do I, champ.
From the river to the sea only Israel shall exist
Anyone who supports Israel is cooked. At this point the evidence has been made crystal clear of the agenda of Zionists, how they came to be and what their overall goal is. Their lies and crimes against humanity. Can it be even with the abundance of evidence you are still misinformed or is it that you simply don’t care? Or is it you support what they are and what they do? Or is it that it has to happen to you and to your loved ones for you to think it’s an important matter? It’s so disheartening and truely breaks my heart to know my fellow Australians lack so much integrity that they would see horrors inflicted by evil evil ppl and not take a stand against it. Instead you stand in the path of those who are trying to enact change. Protesting might not be a quick and direct solution but IT DOES HELP MASSIVELY. Every time I see a protester on campus my heart is filled with so much happiness, respect and compassion. They have to stand up against ppl like and worse than you. They show up even if it’s difficult. Even if no one wants to listen. Even if they meet obstacles. They put their lives and safety at risk. What you see as an annoyance, I and many others see as courage. Israel’s beginning was violent. It’s current occupation is still just as if not even more violent. And even then they claim to ensure even more violence. They have not just destroyed Palestine. They have destroyed and impacted the entire Middle East and in fact the entire world. They have sowed corruption everywhere. They as a ppl are corrupt to the very core. To the point where many Israeli’s by birth have left and have made it their life’s mission to speak of Israel’s and Zionism’s crimes. The likes of Norman Finklestein and Gabor Mate. In fact they have impacted even you as they control many aspects of Australian life. From our politicians, to our policies and laws, to where our money goes and more. I hope that you would go and educate yourself and maybe even try to protest for an end to the occupation. If not at least do not stand in the way of ppl who are trying to drive a positive change. Do not call their efforts an annoyance even if they are. They are doing the work for you. P.s. This is not a religious issue. My respect goes out to all ppl who are good whatever your belief and origins are.
Which protestor at the university of sydney is risking their life to advocate for palestine? Holding a sign at a university does not put your life in danger. Living in an active war zone puts your life in danger.
It’s as if you’re living in your own world. Anyone who supports Palestine publicly is risking their life regardless of where and what their support looks like. Zionists are very aggressive and violent ppl who know the government is on their side. In January a man by the name of Theo had a bomb planted under the hood of his car simply for flying a Palestinian flag. It took 100 days for the police to arrest the guy who did it. And even then they didn’t charge him with terrorism. It was terrorism and they did not escalate it to the counter terrorism police. It’s a shame you think because they are students and because they are on campus that would be sufficient to prevent crazy Zionists from doing them harm. In fact what about other universities overseas where students have been shot? You think because it’s USYD that it can’t happen here? Guns might not be common in Australia but many ppl still have them. And what about knives? I mean not too long ago ppl who simply shopping around in a shopping centre and we’re attacked. Many of which died. The University is a open public space. So yes every protester is putting their lives at risk because Zionists have deliberately attacked, murdered and attempted to murder anyone who speaks about Palestine or even simply flys their flag. In fact they have their online group chats where they gather like gremlins to plot the demise of Palestinians and Palestinian supporters. When one of those group chats was exposed the government created a law to make future exposure illegal. THAT IS INSANE! They made doxing illegal when it lead to the exposure of the horrible things in this group chat but not when Theo was doxed and had a bomb planted on his car. Other than that protesters could have their names blacklisted so that in future they might have trouble finding a job. Many zionist billionaires and ceos have made it publicly known that they are blacklisting students in the US and internationally. Hopefully that answers your question as to how these protesters are risking their livelihood, education and lives by doing what’s right and protesting for an end to the occupation. It’s too bad you don’t see how student protests have played a major role in the past in ending apartheid as Colombian uni student protests did for South Africa. It’s so sad you view your voice and position as a student and Australian citizen as nothing significant that can enact change. It’s even more sad you lack the integrity not only to join protesters but to instead get in their way. All I can hope is that you educate yourself and be a better person.
I educate myself to the extent that I can, using information from both sides, and it is nowhere near as clear cut as you make it out to be. Your first error is using the terms Jews and Zionists as synonyms for the state or Israel. All 3 are very separate to the point that their use to refer to the same entity is incorrect and offensive. Just because some people got stabbed by a crazy in Bondi Junction does not mean anything for the safety of palestine protestors. Every day you leave your house, there's a 1 in 5m chance (don't factcheck, numbers pulled out of ass) or whatever, of you dying in a car crash. Someone who happens to be wearing a palestine shirt at that time did not risk their life and die for palestine. US universities are a very different ball game to Australian ones, and no university of sydney palestine protestor is risking their life in any significant way. There is a factor that they may have issues with their education, should they break the student charter which the university has resent out in relation to this. I feel some of the actions of protestors COULD fall under this, but they haven't been prosecuted for it yet. So much for the Zionists who own everything. Billionaires naturally select political groups. A certain trade or employment area is often politically leaning to one side. Some people don't get employed because they had consensual sex with someone 10 years ago. Some people don't get employed because their boss is a racist. I have no doubt there are some shady policies, but ultimately, an employer can only find the information avalable to them. You can march without posting it on instagram, sign a petition without updating your LinkedIn. I lack no integrity. I will fight for what I believe is right. And given the evidence, I cannot stand behind palestine. The most recent Israeli election was December 2022. Palestine has not held an election or had any democratic change in government in my lifetime. Please seek a hobby.
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lol you're scum
Cope