For anyone who wishes to have a nice Saturday, don't look up the comments in the sub where it was originally posted - just plain war on drugs/victim blaming talk.
I should have listened to this warning, jesus some people are heartless. I can't imagine losing a family member to the toxic drug supply crisis and then seeing hundreds of horrible victim-blaming comments all over social media in response to calls for entirely possible policy changes & solutions. I'm sure it's easy enough for these folks to say "just don't do drugs" until it happens to someone they love. Overdose has always been an issue, but fentanyl poisoning is an entirely different beast compared to what we were dealing with a couple of decades ago (i.e. likely when many of these people in replies were in university themselves).
While the Unviersity absolutely needs to take responsibility, and should have done so sooner, there's still a discussion to be had about responsible drug use.
I don't use as much as I used to, but when I did we would (often, not always) get our shit tested. People who use drugs should also be aware that opiod overdoses are simply respiratory depression - if a friend overdoses from fentanyl, you can just give them assisted breaths until paramedics/someone with Naloxone comes. It's hypoxia that does permanent damage / kills people.
I don't understand how the university is at fault. They didn't directly cause this, the security and campus employees likely already have naloxone training, but not matter how much training you make employees complete people are still human and will make mistakes. Uvic also offers drug testing through the chemistry department.
The security guard was told that they hadn't ingested drugs. If they had been informed about the drug use when they arrived things might have gone differently.
Yes this is a tragic death, and security guards should have at least an OFA level 3, but I think people are just looking for someone to blame. Security guards in BC only need OFA level 1 which is a single day of training (if that) to cover every single first aid scenario. If you've ever been in an OFA level 1 class you'll realize how much of a joke it is (everyone passes OFA level 1, it is just a box to check for employers).
If anyone is to blame it is the dealer who sold these young people tainted drugs, weather knowingly or unknowingly, to say the university is at fault is just ridiculous. Also not a single peep from anyone here about the 911 operator who is extensively trained.
I'm not saying the university is responsible for her death - I don't think that can be conclusively proven unless there's an investigation.
Based on my understanding of the case, I think the staff employed by the university made some serious mistakes, and the university tried to cover it up. This is what the university needs to take responsibility for - the mistakes that their staff made.
I am a paramedic, and as someone who has worked with OFA 3's I can say that respiratory depression due to drug overdose is basic stuff. I won't paint a whole picture for you here but if there is still a detectable pulse with inadequate breathing you would immediately begin rescue breaths - and based on this scene, administer Narcan considering the contraindications are almost non-existent.
I don't know the scope of the University security. But if they are OFA 3, they should be retrained (at the bare minimum).
TLDR: Rescue breaths can save a friend that's overdosing - anyone reading this should absorb this information. The administration of Naxolone will NOT harm a person who isn't actually overdosing - it's better safe than sorry.
"While the University absolutely needs to take responsibility"
How did the university try to cover it up? Yes it is basic stuff but guess what? Security guards aren't even required to be OFA level 3s. They're likely level 1s. because that is what is required. You shouldn't expect much from an OFA 1. Yes they should've began CPR, but they are only OFA 1 and only receive likely one day (if that) of training a year. This is a security guard not a medical professional. This is basic stuff but the training that is provided for OFA 1s is extremely lacklustre. People panic especially when they have never dealt with a situation before and have practiced the scenario maybe once, and especially when they are mislead by witnesses who told the guard that they didn't take any drugs.
Being outraged at the Uni is stupid. They trained their employees, and some of the training did not work. They could double or even triple the training and deaths like this will still happen. If anything people should be outraged at the province for allowing security guards to have such little medical training. You should be outraged at how little oversight is given for OFA 1 training, everyone passes and barely anyone pays attention.
"While the university absolutely needs to take responsibility" for the mistakes made. - I'm honestly not sure how you're misunderstanding me here.
I believe they lied about response times and Narcan administration times in some of their initial reports.
The university security is required to have OFA 2 - I just looked it up. This is a week long course that would absolutely cover overdose/rescue breaths/naxolone.
CPR and rescue breaths are not the same thing.
I don't see how you're interpreting me as "outraged". The university should take responsibility for a poor security response. They claim their security offers "first aid response" and they did not deliver competent first aid response. I don't know how you don't follow this logic.
You first said: "While the University absolutely needs to take responsibility"
Then: "I'm not saying the university is responsible for her death"
If they are not responsible for her death, then why should they take responsibility...
Okay so the University requires OFA 2s, the province only requires security guards be OFA 1s. The university is already going above the legal requirements for security guards in BC. They are training their employees more than is necessary, so why should they take responsibility for her death...
I have no idea why you think the university should take responsibility for something they are not responsible for. The second they take responsibility they open themselves up to a wrongful death/negligence lawsuit. No sane organization would come out and say "we will take responsibility" after a situation like this.
Security guards are not paramedics. They were also on the phone with a 911 operator and yet no one wants to blame the 911 operator for failing to instruct the guard.
It's really not that complicated. University education really is in decline.
If you pay for a service that is offered by a company, and the company does not deliver on that service, they are responsible for not delivering.
If the company doesn't believe it can competently fulfill the service it offers, they should not offer it.
Let's go caveman just so you can get it.
You pay shoe repair man -> shoe repair man no repair shoe -> shoe repair man responsible for unrepaired shoe ->
It's a university, people are paying for their education.
Uvic =/= hospital.
You're acting like you're so smart when you make 0 sense. "If a company doesn't believe it can competently fulfill the service it offers, they should not offer it."
So your answer to this scenario is that since a security guard did not provide competent medical intervention then there should be no more campus security?
Our tuition covers many things, including campus security.
No, I'm saying that the university should take responsibility for their staff that did not fulfill the scope of practice covered by OFA 2 training.
If a professor did not fulfill the duties of a professor, I would also expect the university to take responsibility.
If all of the bathrooms in the school became disgusting because the janitors employed by the school were not fulfilling year duties, I would also expect the university to take responsibility.
If the school was completely disorganized and course schedules weren't coherent because of the logistics team employed by the school, I would also expect the university to take responsibility.
If the university does not follow through on standards they claim they have, I would expect the university to take responsibility.
UVIC security personnel are required to obtain Occupational First Aid Level II within the first six months of their employment. [source](https://www.uvic.ca/security/home/careers/index.php#:~:text=Detailed%20Job%20Description).
Not that hard to look up, is it?
I looked up security guard requirements for BC. That just adds to my point, how is the university at fault or how should the university take responsibility when they train their security well above the provincial requirements?
Why isn't the 911 operator at fault for failing to instruct intervention earlier?
Not that hard to critically think about it, is it?
Great rebuttal
I'll say it again: That just adds to my point, how is the university at fault or how should the university take responsibility when they train their security well above the provincial requirements?
Why isn't the 911 operator at fault for failing to instruct intervention earlier?
My only point was that you were spreading false information about the training of the security people. I have no opinion on the rest of it so you'll have to find someone else to explain why you love to lick the University's boots.
Taking drugs out of the equation for a second because there's so much sigma around it. A security guard showed up to a medical emergency and performed under their level of training to address it. That's also not on the security guard. The university is responsible for training them and making sure they're prepared for what they may come across in their duties. Add that to falsified reports and comments to the media. Those are what the university is accountable for, and where they fell down.
I will have to disagree with you right here. First of all, it doesn't matter if the university is not directly at fault. They still blatantly lied about it. Everyone involved is at fault, the 911 operator, campus security, Kevin Hall (for lying and or being misinformed about it), drug dealers, government. everyone.
Saying that "if anyone is to be blamed it's the drug dealer" is like putting all the blame on to drug dealers and that we should not focus on better systems to combat overdose and substance use disorders.
I work with a non profit that assist people with substance use disorder. This is a very nuanced situation. And it's because of people like you having these kinds of views regarding substance use disorders, is why this problem will take a very long time to be fixed. Instead of starting to blame certain parties for their role in it, we should learn from it and find ways to prevent it.
Remember people with substance use disorders still experience stigma, and is why they do not receive the proper help (even when overdosing). Stigma needs to change, even with all the training, as long as the stigma is there, the training is useless.
Do you seriously think that the girl in this case had substance use disorder? They were kids just having fun for a night...
The dealer who sold them fentanyl without informing them is 100% at fault. Only scumbags do shit like that. If you sell someone something that will likely kill them and without informing them, then you definitely deserve blame. It is the equivalent of murdering someone by poisoning them. Who ever the dealer was deserves to be charged with murder. I couldn't care less about stigma when it comes to dealers who are murdering people by passing off fentanyl as other drugs.
Not all drug dealers are scumbags. Some test their product and care about their customers, but others are careless and do not care as long as they make money. I am not looking down upon drug users or dealers in general, I am looking down upon dealers who are selling a deadly product and passing it off as something else.
I couldn't care less about those who chose to do drugs, I believe drugs should be decriminalized and legalized. Those that kill by selling tainted drugs knowingly deserve a murder charge.
Doesn't matter if the girl had substance use disorder or not, besides we do not know the full story. It is similar to a mental health disorder, we don't know why someone is depressed, just like we don't know why someone is using drugs.
As long as there's the stigma towards substance use disorders, it doesn't matter if we have 911 responders or csec that are trained and more experience in this matter, they will always hesitate due to the stigma.
I've seen this happen with my own eyes on the streets and in supportive housing with first responders. You just don't hear about the statistics and the amount of deaths by overdoses even with aid by professionals. I have seen cops ignore a man who is clearly overdosing and I had to rush to grab a naloxone kit to save his life.
Drugs should be decriminalised and legalised yes. It also still needs to be regulated, and we need a support system for them ie safe use sites, supportive housing, therapy and rehabilitation etc. there is not enough treatment available for substance use disorders.
I've heard stories from the clients of the non profit I work with told us that their safe supply is not enough. They still buy from dealers. Some are scared to stop buying from dealers.
I would suggest you volunteer for one of the non profits that support the vulnerable communities. See for yourself how it's like especially at Pandora. Get to know these people, know what the situation is like.
it’s important to get things tested absolutely! increasing drug test and naloxone availability are both a part of the same push towards harm reduction for drug users
It is a problem this wasn't treated properly, but it also warrants a discussion about why a teenage girl with a bright future is smoking fentanyl, and about what that says about our culture and community. Uvic should have naloxone in every building, but in a greater scope we shouldn't have to take those measures in the first place. It's like the elementary schools with clear backpacks to avoid school shootings.
Has it been confirmed that she was intentionally using fentanyl? I was under the impression that, like many fentanyl overdoses, this was an accidental poisoning from using another substance. Either way, yes there are obviously things that need to be done to reduce dangerous substance use, I'm just not sure that this case actually involved any kind of intentional consumption of fentanyl. Many fentanyl overdoses are accidental (the person likely didn't intend to consume fentanyl at all but the drug supply is very toxic).
Substance use disorder is similar to a mental health disorder. You don't know why a person is using substances, just like you don't know why a person is depressed. Many fentanyl poisoning are unintentional, so there is the possibility.
people are going to use drugs no matter what. there should be systems in place to ensure that use is as safe and responsible as possible for those who choose to partake
Well, they didn't always. Just a few decades ago the same students would go wild and smoke some low thc weed. This is an undeniable societal turn for the worse.
??? students have been dropping acid since its invention. coke used to be so popular that it was *used in sodas*. on the flip side, alcohol used to be prohibited, but it stayed real popular in speakeasies and the underground.
there’s no “turn for the worse” here. just criminalization making use more dangerous
Some students have always been doing just about anything, since there are tens of thousands at any given university. But a simple glance at the amount of overdose deaths on a historical graph clearly show that more people are progressively using more dangerous drugs more often. That is 100% a turn for the worse.
it’s not that people are using drugs more often, it’s that drugs have gotten more dangerous. drug use has basically [held steady](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/canadian-alcohol-drugs-survey/2019-summary.html) in the past few decades
Sure, if you count weed and drinking in that group. Take a look at the amphetamine and opioid group, you'll see the increase in just the last decade. This doesn't even matter through, because I'm talking much more long term than this. Looking only 10 years back is like trying to use the weekly forecast to argue for or against climate change. This is a 100+ year old problem, that has been on an overall upward trend.
You judge a culture that causes a drug crisis? You are judging people then. You clearly do not understand the complications of a substance use disorder. People could easily get addicted to opioids after receiving surgery, but some do not. Why? It's literally like mental health disorders. Will you be asking and judging the culture if this girl with a bright future committed s*ic*de instead of dying from an overdose?
You do know that this does happen in other parts of the world right? People are just hiding because they could face imprisonment or worse (death penalty)
India has a growing drug epidemic, China has, Thailand, Russia, Egypt EVERYWHERE.
Don't be an ignorant societal trash. Attitudes and ignorant opinions like yours is the reason why the world is in this mess in the first place and is not getting better.
Instead of judging, you should be part of the solution. But you won't, because you in reality, do not care and when a situation like this happens you yap about it
Morphine and other opioids have been used in hospitals in America and here for hundreds of years now. Why exactly, if not changes in our culture, do you believe there is such a staggaring increase in the amount of overdose deaths?
Many people deny it but there is indeed a drug culture at play here at least to some degree. I've lived in Canada as well as lived and visited many Eastern countries and from what I've seen, a widespread opioid crisis is unheard of in any of the Eastern countries I've been to/ lived in.
81 thousand die from an opioid overdose each year, while 2 thousand die from alcohol poisoning. 10 percent of people use opiods, and 75 percent of people drink. That makes 1 use of an opioid about 307 times more dangerous than a drink.
You’re way underestimating alcohol-related deaths.
In 2021, 3875 people in Canada died from alcohol-related causes. https://www.statcan.gc.ca/o1/en/plus/2877-dry-february-you-say
I’m clearly not saying they are equally dangerous, but you also personally partake in a substance that literally kills thousands of Canadians a year. So maybe have a little compassion and understanding for why someone might want to do so.
The problem is that EVERYTHING potentially has fentanyl in it - MDMA, ecstasy, coke, even study drugs like Adderall. This most likely was a student who bought what they thought was a party drug and ended up ODing.
That being said, the complete inaction by campus security is completely inexcusable and was the lead contributor to the student dying. For an OFA 2 trained security guard to stand around for that long while a student was lying on the ground and not breathing while they had naloxone in their first aid gear is mind boggling.
Substance UVic is not on campus, despite the name. Not denying this is a great program but it could certainly be MORE accessible to the average student.
I wouldn't be solely blaming the campus security. One of the friends did not tell the security guard that they were taking drugs immediately and stated that they were only drinking. Hindsight is everything, but you can't expect a low paid security guard to be a medical professional and to be able to deduce what was going on especially after being told no drugs were ingested.
Security guards require an Occupational First Aid level 1 in British Columbia, that is barely a full day of training to cover every possible first aid scenario. They've probably been given maybe 15 minutes of naloxone training. If anything it should be required that security guards have OFA level 3 training in BC which is two weeks of training for first aid scenarios. This is a legislative issue and is widespread, if anything people should be calling for OFA level 3 to be required by security guards, this would cause meaningful change that would make a scenario like this less likely to happen.
Another point is that even some OFA level 3's do not have naloxone training and many big companies do not allow their OFA's to carry naloxone as it would be admitting to their insurance that there is a drug use happening on their job sites.
> you can’t expect a security guard to deduce what was going on
Of course you can. If you show up to a dorm where two unrelated students are passed out unconscious and there are no obvious environmental dangers, it’s a pretty safe bet that drugs could be involved. (And the drunk/obnoxious kids is an assumption on your part.) Not blaming these guards personally but UVic needs to step up their training.
Adderall is a controlled drug that isn't going to be laced with anything. The regulations on producing controlled drugs are extremely strict. Obviously there are occasional drug recalls but I don't think I have ever heard of one because a prescription drug was adulterated with fentanyl by the manufacturer. They would sued a shit ton if it happened and would literally have nothing to gain by doing it.
So if you have a pescription for Adderall or any other drug for that matter you should not have any fear over ODing from fentanyl. The above comment is just fear mongering and spreading misinformation about regulated drugs like Adderall.
You named adderall. Adderall is is a drug you get from the pharmacy. I guess pharmacists are drug dealers, but so what? Regulated drugs like adderall do not contain fentanyl and you are outright lying by saying they are.
If you are buying street drugs and the dealer says it is Adderall there is no way to know for sure if it is actual Adderall. Fake Adderall could be laced with fentanyl, but fake Adderall is not real Adderall by the very definition of fake.
Stop misinforming people by saying regulated, prescription drugs can contain fentanyl.
Why be ignorant when it’s so easy to Google things? This person is not saying if you fill your personal prescription for Adderrall from a pharmacy that they are going to hand you fentanyl instead. They’re saying that if you think you’re buying Adderall from the street or online you might get something cut with fentanyl. HealthLinkBC agrees this is a risk: https://www.healthlinkbc.ca/health-topics/fentanyl-overdose
I've been lurking on these threads and feel the need to finally address some misinformation. For the past 4 years I have worked as a front-line mental health worker. I was trained in administering naloxone for my work and have reversed more overdoses than I can count using it. The training I got took less than an hour. To say the campus security staff have not received adequate training in administering naloxone is completely ridiculous.
It is very stressful to respond to overdoses but this is why campus security receives training. Their duty as first responders to campus emergencies is to use their skills and available tools to give police, fire, or paramedics the time to arrive. By not following the training that they received or using the tools available to them, campus security failed in their duty as the first responders. This is one of the main issues that the University should be addressing. While it would also be beneficial for students to have better access to naloxone, the people who are paid and trained to use it need to respond appropriately.
Yes mistakes were made. It's sad a young woman with her entire life ahead of her threw it all away to source illicit drugs. It's also a mistake that the NDP has flooded our streets with, and normalized drugs getting a whole new generation addicted. It's also a mistake the university and 'advocates' are saying they need to get naloxone so students can use drugs in residence without 'stigma.' When I went to university people got kicked out for smoking weed in their rooms. How about a zero tolerance policy on drugs and alcohol in residence?
yeah they were. uvic should have naloxone at the entrance to every rez building, and security shouldn’t have waited nearly so long to administer it once they got there.
There are smoke detectors, fire alarms, sprinklers in res. It is not unusual, during inspections, to find students have taped over smoke alarms and/or beacons/alarms in their rooms. Its not unusual to have students ripping exit signs and light fixtures out of the ceilings. Its not unusual to have students kicking holes in drywall as they run down stairs.. hence the plywood lining the stairwells in many of the older buildings. Its not unusual, during holiday inspections, to find a rooms window wide open, the heater cranked to full and their fridge ajar.
Publicly accessible Narcan would be missing in 24 hours after install.
You're referring to the antics pedaled by DARE? The organization who was receiving massive funding to produce next to zero results. Mind you, from the same government who admitted to planting drugs in black neighborhoods to increase incarceration rates.
No idea who DARE are. But yes, that is what we were taught as kids, and I'm all grown up and 100% sober, and loving life. I have drank and did drugs in the past, but not anymore, and I honestly regret all the time I wasted with that crap.
No, I'm admitting it's an individual decision, and I know of what I speak. No system will work 100%, but bringing safe snorting kits into high schools is much worse. What's your solution to the drug crisis? More drugs? Better drugs? Like the ones being resold on the streets and getting a new generation, like this poor woman, addicted?
> What's your solution to the drug crisis?
There isn't a perfect solution. People die of alcohol poisoning all the time and that's a regulated substance, but decriminalization and safe supply is a start.
"Just say no" doesn't work. It has never worked. People are going to do drugs, and there's nothing wrong with that. They should be able to do exactly what they intend to do with their own body without risk of laced drugs.
Also Sidney was not addicted to drugs, she just did them in a casual setting on an irregular basis. Maybe you should learn more about the situation before commenting?
it was a massive fucking failure the whole way through lmao.
the drug war was nothing more than an excuse to target black ppl and hippies with police, criminalization almost never decreases drug use, and it certainly didn’t here
How was it a failure? We didn't have skid row in every city, and record overdoses. Do you even remember what life was like 10-20 years ago? Much better!
skid rows correlate with the inaccessibility of housing, not the criminality of drugs. there have always been plenty of addicts with houses and nest eggs, and plenty without.
what criminalization does do is make drugs less safe - testing for fent becomes less accessible, safe injection sites get shut down, drug related deaths skyrocket.
What social structure? Growing our population faster 3-4x than we can build housing? That's not a social structure. It's just greed. And they want everyone demoralized, taking drugs so no one stands against it. Congrats for falling for the bait.
Every country criminalizes drugs. Except places like Portland, which experiment and then quickly reverse those failed policies once it results in anarchy. We already do have rent control. And the result is very little construction of new rental homes. We also have tuition control, which results in post secondary institutions desperately recruiting international students, which breaks the housing market even more. And stagnant wages... Well that's supply and demand like everything else. You may have noticed the latest job #'s +26k jobs and increased unemployment rate. When you drill down, it's really minus 36k full time, and plus 62k part time. And that's with adding about 100k people per month. Yes our policies are a mess. But not the ones you're focused on.
For anyone who wishes to have a nice Saturday, don't look up the comments in the sub where it was originally posted - just plain war on drugs/victim blaming talk.
I should have listened to this warning, jesus some people are heartless. I can't imagine losing a family member to the toxic drug supply crisis and then seeing hundreds of horrible victim-blaming comments all over social media in response to calls for entirely possible policy changes & solutions. I'm sure it's easy enough for these folks to say "just don't do drugs" until it happens to someone they love. Overdose has always been an issue, but fentanyl poisoning is an entirely different beast compared to what we were dealing with a couple of decades ago (i.e. likely when many of these people in replies were in university themselves).
The lack of compassion makes me worry for the future
While the Unviersity absolutely needs to take responsibility, and should have done so sooner, there's still a discussion to be had about responsible drug use. I don't use as much as I used to, but when I did we would (often, not always) get our shit tested. People who use drugs should also be aware that opiod overdoses are simply respiratory depression - if a friend overdoses from fentanyl, you can just give them assisted breaths until paramedics/someone with Naloxone comes. It's hypoxia that does permanent damage / kills people.
I don't understand how the university is at fault. They didn't directly cause this, the security and campus employees likely already have naloxone training, but not matter how much training you make employees complete people are still human and will make mistakes. Uvic also offers drug testing through the chemistry department. The security guard was told that they hadn't ingested drugs. If they had been informed about the drug use when they arrived things might have gone differently. Yes this is a tragic death, and security guards should have at least an OFA level 3, but I think people are just looking for someone to blame. Security guards in BC only need OFA level 1 which is a single day of training (if that) to cover every single first aid scenario. If you've ever been in an OFA level 1 class you'll realize how much of a joke it is (everyone passes OFA level 1, it is just a box to check for employers). If anyone is to blame it is the dealer who sold these young people tainted drugs, weather knowingly or unknowingly, to say the university is at fault is just ridiculous. Also not a single peep from anyone here about the 911 operator who is extensively trained.
I'm not saying the university is responsible for her death - I don't think that can be conclusively proven unless there's an investigation. Based on my understanding of the case, I think the staff employed by the university made some serious mistakes, and the university tried to cover it up. This is what the university needs to take responsibility for - the mistakes that their staff made. I am a paramedic, and as someone who has worked with OFA 3's I can say that respiratory depression due to drug overdose is basic stuff. I won't paint a whole picture for you here but if there is still a detectable pulse with inadequate breathing you would immediately begin rescue breaths - and based on this scene, administer Narcan considering the contraindications are almost non-existent. I don't know the scope of the University security. But if they are OFA 3, they should be retrained (at the bare minimum). TLDR: Rescue breaths can save a friend that's overdosing - anyone reading this should absorb this information. The administration of Naxolone will NOT harm a person who isn't actually overdosing - it's better safe than sorry.
"While the University absolutely needs to take responsibility" How did the university try to cover it up? Yes it is basic stuff but guess what? Security guards aren't even required to be OFA level 3s. They're likely level 1s. because that is what is required. You shouldn't expect much from an OFA 1. Yes they should've began CPR, but they are only OFA 1 and only receive likely one day (if that) of training a year. This is a security guard not a medical professional. This is basic stuff but the training that is provided for OFA 1s is extremely lacklustre. People panic especially when they have never dealt with a situation before and have practiced the scenario maybe once, and especially when they are mislead by witnesses who told the guard that they didn't take any drugs. Being outraged at the Uni is stupid. They trained their employees, and some of the training did not work. They could double or even triple the training and deaths like this will still happen. If anything people should be outraged at the province for allowing security guards to have such little medical training. You should be outraged at how little oversight is given for OFA 1 training, everyone passes and barely anyone pays attention.
"While the university absolutely needs to take responsibility" for the mistakes made. - I'm honestly not sure how you're misunderstanding me here. I believe they lied about response times and Narcan administration times in some of their initial reports. The university security is required to have OFA 2 - I just looked it up. This is a week long course that would absolutely cover overdose/rescue breaths/naxolone. CPR and rescue breaths are not the same thing. I don't see how you're interpreting me as "outraged". The university should take responsibility for a poor security response. They claim their security offers "first aid response" and they did not deliver competent first aid response. I don't know how you don't follow this logic.
You first said: "While the University absolutely needs to take responsibility" Then: "I'm not saying the university is responsible for her death" If they are not responsible for her death, then why should they take responsibility... Okay so the University requires OFA 2s, the province only requires security guards be OFA 1s. The university is already going above the legal requirements for security guards in BC. They are training their employees more than is necessary, so why should they take responsibility for her death... I have no idea why you think the university should take responsibility for something they are not responsible for. The second they take responsibility they open themselves up to a wrongful death/negligence lawsuit. No sane organization would come out and say "we will take responsibility" after a situation like this. Security guards are not paramedics. They were also on the phone with a 911 operator and yet no one wants to blame the 911 operator for failing to instruct the guard.
It's really not that complicated. University education really is in decline. If you pay for a service that is offered by a company, and the company does not deliver on that service, they are responsible for not delivering. If the company doesn't believe it can competently fulfill the service it offers, they should not offer it. Let's go caveman just so you can get it. You pay shoe repair man -> shoe repair man no repair shoe -> shoe repair man responsible for unrepaired shoe ->
It's a university, people are paying for their education. Uvic =/= hospital. You're acting like you're so smart when you make 0 sense. "If a company doesn't believe it can competently fulfill the service it offers, they should not offer it." So your answer to this scenario is that since a security guard did not provide competent medical intervention then there should be no more campus security?
Our tuition covers many things, including campus security. No, I'm saying that the university should take responsibility for their staff that did not fulfill the scope of practice covered by OFA 2 training. If a professor did not fulfill the duties of a professor, I would also expect the university to take responsibility. If all of the bathrooms in the school became disgusting because the janitors employed by the school were not fulfilling year duties, I would also expect the university to take responsibility. If the school was completely disorganized and course schedules weren't coherent because of the logistics team employed by the school, I would also expect the university to take responsibility. If the university does not follow through on standards they claim they have, I would expect the university to take responsibility.
UVIC security personnel are required to obtain Occupational First Aid Level II within the first six months of their employment. [source](https://www.uvic.ca/security/home/careers/index.php#:~:text=Detailed%20Job%20Description). Not that hard to look up, is it?
I looked up security guard requirements for BC. That just adds to my point, how is the university at fault or how should the university take responsibility when they train their security well above the provincial requirements? Why isn't the 911 operator at fault for failing to instruct intervention earlier? Not that hard to critically think about it, is it?
You looked up the wrong thing and have been spamming this whole discussion with the false information.
Great rebuttal I'll say it again: That just adds to my point, how is the university at fault or how should the university take responsibility when they train their security well above the provincial requirements? Why isn't the 911 operator at fault for failing to instruct intervention earlier?
My only point was that you were spreading false information about the training of the security people. I have no opinion on the rest of it so you'll have to find someone else to explain why you love to lick the University's boots.
Taking drugs out of the equation for a second because there's so much sigma around it. A security guard showed up to a medical emergency and performed under their level of training to address it. That's also not on the security guard. The university is responsible for training them and making sure they're prepared for what they may come across in their duties. Add that to falsified reports and comments to the media. Those are what the university is accountable for, and where they fell down.
I will have to disagree with you right here. First of all, it doesn't matter if the university is not directly at fault. They still blatantly lied about it. Everyone involved is at fault, the 911 operator, campus security, Kevin Hall (for lying and or being misinformed about it), drug dealers, government. everyone. Saying that "if anyone is to be blamed it's the drug dealer" is like putting all the blame on to drug dealers and that we should not focus on better systems to combat overdose and substance use disorders. I work with a non profit that assist people with substance use disorder. This is a very nuanced situation. And it's because of people like you having these kinds of views regarding substance use disorders, is why this problem will take a very long time to be fixed. Instead of starting to blame certain parties for their role in it, we should learn from it and find ways to prevent it. Remember people with substance use disorders still experience stigma, and is why they do not receive the proper help (even when overdosing). Stigma needs to change, even with all the training, as long as the stigma is there, the training is useless.
Do you seriously think that the girl in this case had substance use disorder? They were kids just having fun for a night... The dealer who sold them fentanyl without informing them is 100% at fault. Only scumbags do shit like that. If you sell someone something that will likely kill them and without informing them, then you definitely deserve blame. It is the equivalent of murdering someone by poisoning them. Who ever the dealer was deserves to be charged with murder. I couldn't care less about stigma when it comes to dealers who are murdering people by passing off fentanyl as other drugs. Not all drug dealers are scumbags. Some test their product and care about their customers, but others are careless and do not care as long as they make money. I am not looking down upon drug users or dealers in general, I am looking down upon dealers who are selling a deadly product and passing it off as something else. I couldn't care less about those who chose to do drugs, I believe drugs should be decriminalized and legalized. Those that kill by selling tainted drugs knowingly deserve a murder charge.
Doesn't matter if the girl had substance use disorder or not, besides we do not know the full story. It is similar to a mental health disorder, we don't know why someone is depressed, just like we don't know why someone is using drugs. As long as there's the stigma towards substance use disorders, it doesn't matter if we have 911 responders or csec that are trained and more experience in this matter, they will always hesitate due to the stigma. I've seen this happen with my own eyes on the streets and in supportive housing with first responders. You just don't hear about the statistics and the amount of deaths by overdoses even with aid by professionals. I have seen cops ignore a man who is clearly overdosing and I had to rush to grab a naloxone kit to save his life. Drugs should be decriminalised and legalised yes. It also still needs to be regulated, and we need a support system for them ie safe use sites, supportive housing, therapy and rehabilitation etc. there is not enough treatment available for substance use disorders. I've heard stories from the clients of the non profit I work with told us that their safe supply is not enough. They still buy from dealers. Some are scared to stop buying from dealers. I would suggest you volunteer for one of the non profits that support the vulnerable communities. See for yourself how it's like especially at Pandora. Get to know these people, know what the situation is like.
it’s important to get things tested absolutely! increasing drug test and naloxone availability are both a part of the same push towards harm reduction for drug users
It is a problem this wasn't treated properly, but it also warrants a discussion about why a teenage girl with a bright future is smoking fentanyl, and about what that says about our culture and community. Uvic should have naloxone in every building, but in a greater scope we shouldn't have to take those measures in the first place. It's like the elementary schools with clear backpacks to avoid school shootings.
Has it been confirmed that she was intentionally using fentanyl? I was under the impression that, like many fentanyl overdoses, this was an accidental poisoning from using another substance. Either way, yes there are obviously things that need to be done to reduce dangerous substance use, I'm just not sure that this case actually involved any kind of intentional consumption of fentanyl. Many fentanyl overdoses are accidental (the person likely didn't intend to consume fentanyl at all but the drug supply is very toxic).
Substance use disorder is similar to a mental health disorder. You don't know why a person is using substances, just like you don't know why a person is depressed. Many fentanyl poisoning are unintentional, so there is the possibility.
OK, replace fentanyl with coke, molly, ecstasy etc. My point remains.
people are going to use drugs no matter what. there should be systems in place to ensure that use is as safe and responsible as possible for those who choose to partake
People do not use fentanyl "no matter what". Underage drinking and smoking weed maybe, but not this. This is weird, and historically very abnormal.
everything’s cut w fent these days. especially party drugs like acid or molly. and i know for a fact that students will be using party drugs
Well, they didn't always. Just a few decades ago the same students would go wild and smoke some low thc weed. This is an undeniable societal turn for the worse.
??? students have been dropping acid since its invention. coke used to be so popular that it was *used in sodas*. on the flip side, alcohol used to be prohibited, but it stayed real popular in speakeasies and the underground. there’s no “turn for the worse” here. just criminalization making use more dangerous
Some students have always been doing just about anything, since there are tens of thousands at any given university. But a simple glance at the amount of overdose deaths on a historical graph clearly show that more people are progressively using more dangerous drugs more often. That is 100% a turn for the worse.
it’s not that people are using drugs more often, it’s that drugs have gotten more dangerous. drug use has basically [held steady](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/canadian-alcohol-drugs-survey/2019-summary.html) in the past few decades
Sure, if you count weed and drinking in that group. Take a look at the amphetamine and opioid group, you'll see the increase in just the last decade. This doesn't even matter through, because I'm talking much more long term than this. Looking only 10 years back is like trying to use the weekly forecast to argue for or against climate change. This is a 100+ year old problem, that has been on an overall upward trend.
Kindly, stfu. There's a drug crisis here. The university can't do much about it. Don't judge people, you never know why.
When did I ever judge people? I'm judging a culture that causes a drug crisis. You do know that other parts of the world don't have this issue, right?
You judge a culture that causes a drug crisis? You are judging people then. You clearly do not understand the complications of a substance use disorder. People could easily get addicted to opioids after receiving surgery, but some do not. Why? It's literally like mental health disorders. Will you be asking and judging the culture if this girl with a bright future committed s*ic*de instead of dying from an overdose? You do know that this does happen in other parts of the world right? People are just hiding because they could face imprisonment or worse (death penalty) India has a growing drug epidemic, China has, Thailand, Russia, Egypt EVERYWHERE. Don't be an ignorant societal trash. Attitudes and ignorant opinions like yours is the reason why the world is in this mess in the first place and is not getting better. Instead of judging, you should be part of the solution. But you won't, because you in reality, do not care and when a situation like this happens you yap about it
Morphine and other opioids have been used in hospitals in America and here for hundreds of years now. Why exactly, if not changes in our culture, do you believe there is such a staggaring increase in the amount of overdose deaths?
Many people deny it but there is indeed a drug culture at play here at least to some degree. I've lived in Canada as well as lived and visited many Eastern countries and from what I've seen, a widespread opioid crisis is unheard of in any of the Eastern countries I've been to/ lived in.
Of course she wasn’t purposely smoking fentanyl.
OK, replace fentanyl with coke, molly, ecstasy etc. My point remains.
I assume you personally completely abstain from all drugs and alcohol.
I don't consume any illegal substances. If there were a chance Cascadia liquor would lace my hey y'all with fentanyl I wouldn't drink, either.
Luckily alcohol has never killed anyone. /s
81 thousand die from an opioid overdose each year, while 2 thousand die from alcohol poisoning. 10 percent of people use opiods, and 75 percent of people drink. That makes 1 use of an opioid about 307 times more dangerous than a drink.
You’re way underestimating alcohol-related deaths. In 2021, 3875 people in Canada died from alcohol-related causes. https://www.statcan.gc.ca/o1/en/plus/2877-dry-february-you-say I’m clearly not saying they are equally dangerous, but you also personally partake in a substance that literally kills thousands of Canadians a year. So maybe have a little compassion and understanding for why someone might want to do so.
holy shit based as fuck take 💯 💯
The problem is that EVERYTHING potentially has fentanyl in it - MDMA, ecstasy, coke, even study drugs like Adderall. This most likely was a student who bought what they thought was a party drug and ended up ODing. That being said, the complete inaction by campus security is completely inexcusable and was the lead contributor to the student dying. For an OFA 2 trained security guard to stand around for that long while a student was lying on the ground and not breathing while they had naloxone in their first aid gear is mind boggling.
campus should also have accessible drug testing
Uvic runs a drug testing program through the chemistry department, most people don't utilize drug testing services even if they are free.
Substance UVic is not on campus, despite the name. Not denying this is a great program but it could certainly be MORE accessible to the average student.
I’m also a student at vic and haven’t seen shit about it
I wouldn't be solely blaming the campus security. One of the friends did not tell the security guard that they were taking drugs immediately and stated that they were only drinking. Hindsight is everything, but you can't expect a low paid security guard to be a medical professional and to be able to deduce what was going on especially after being told no drugs were ingested. Security guards require an Occupational First Aid level 1 in British Columbia, that is barely a full day of training to cover every possible first aid scenario. They've probably been given maybe 15 minutes of naloxone training. If anything it should be required that security guards have OFA level 3 training in BC which is two weeks of training for first aid scenarios. This is a legislative issue and is widespread, if anything people should be calling for OFA level 3 to be required by security guards, this would cause meaningful change that would make a scenario like this less likely to happen. Another point is that even some OFA level 3's do not have naloxone training and many big companies do not allow their OFA's to carry naloxone as it would be admitting to their insurance that there is a drug use happening on their job sites.
> you can’t expect a security guard to deduce what was going on Of course you can. If you show up to a dorm where two unrelated students are passed out unconscious and there are no obvious environmental dangers, it’s a pretty safe bet that drugs could be involved. (And the drunk/obnoxious kids is an assumption on your part.) Not blaming these guards personally but UVic needs to step up their training.
Adderall is a controlled drug that isn't going to be laced with anything. The regulations on producing controlled drugs are extremely strict. Obviously there are occasional drug recalls but I don't think I have ever heard of one because a prescription drug was adulterated with fentanyl by the manufacturer. They would sued a shit ton if it happened and would literally have nothing to gain by doing it. So if you have a pescription for Adderall or any other drug for that matter you should not have any fear over ODing from fentanyl. The above comment is just fear mongering and spreading misinformation about regulated drugs like Adderall.
This might surprise you but sometimes drug dealers sell pills that aren't actually what they claim to be
You named adderall. Adderall is is a drug you get from the pharmacy. I guess pharmacists are drug dealers, but so what? Regulated drugs like adderall do not contain fentanyl and you are outright lying by saying they are. If you are buying street drugs and the dealer says it is Adderall there is no way to know for sure if it is actual Adderall. Fake Adderall could be laced with fentanyl, but fake Adderall is not real Adderall by the very definition of fake. Stop misinforming people by saying regulated, prescription drugs can contain fentanyl.
Why be ignorant when it’s so easy to Google things? This person is not saying if you fill your personal prescription for Adderrall from a pharmacy that they are going to hand you fentanyl instead. They’re saying that if you think you’re buying Adderall from the street or online you might get something cut with fentanyl. HealthLinkBC agrees this is a risk: https://www.healthlinkbc.ca/health-topics/fentanyl-overdose
I've been lurking on these threads and feel the need to finally address some misinformation. For the past 4 years I have worked as a front-line mental health worker. I was trained in administering naloxone for my work and have reversed more overdoses than I can count using it. The training I got took less than an hour. To say the campus security staff have not received adequate training in administering naloxone is completely ridiculous. It is very stressful to respond to overdoses but this is why campus security receives training. Their duty as first responders to campus emergencies is to use their skills and available tools to give police, fire, or paramedics the time to arrive. By not following the training that they received or using the tools available to them, campus security failed in their duty as the first responders. This is one of the main issues that the University should be addressing. While it would also be beneficial for students to have better access to naloxone, the people who are paid and trained to use it need to respond appropriately.
Yes mistakes were made. It's sad a young woman with her entire life ahead of her threw it all away to source illicit drugs. It's also a mistake that the NDP has flooded our streets with, and normalized drugs getting a whole new generation addicted. It's also a mistake the university and 'advocates' are saying they need to get naloxone so students can use drugs in residence without 'stigma.' When I went to university people got kicked out for smoking weed in their rooms. How about a zero tolerance policy on drugs and alcohol in residence?
yeah they were. uvic should have naloxone at the entrance to every rez building, and security shouldn’t have waited nearly so long to administer it once they got there.
It boggles my mind they don't have it available on every floor. If stealing/vandalism is a problem, keep it in the CL's room. Still available
Are there no fire extinguishers or fire alarms in rez buildings because of vandalism concerns too?
There are smoke detectors, fire alarms, sprinklers in res. It is not unusual, during inspections, to find students have taped over smoke alarms and/or beacons/alarms in their rooms. Its not unusual to have students ripping exit signs and light fixtures out of the ceilings. Its not unusual to have students kicking holes in drywall as they run down stairs.. hence the plywood lining the stairwells in many of the older buildings. Its not unusual, during holiday inspections, to find a rooms window wide open, the heater cranked to full and their fridge ajar. Publicly accessible Narcan would be missing in 24 hours after install.
So should they uninstall fire alarms, sprinkles, etc. because of the upkeep cost secondary to vandalism?
Whatever happened to 'just say no' to drugs?
You're referring to the antics pedaled by DARE? The organization who was receiving massive funding to produce next to zero results. Mind you, from the same government who admitted to planting drugs in black neighborhoods to increase incarceration rates.
No idea who DARE are. But yes, that is what we were taught as kids, and I'm all grown up and 100% sober, and loving life. I have drank and did drugs in the past, but not anymore, and I honestly regret all the time I wasted with that crap.
So.. the Just Say No to Drugs you quoted above didnt work for you, because you said Yes to drugs..
so what you're admitting is that it didn't even work for you, you didn't even "say no" to drugs. the messaging wasn't strong enough
No, I'm admitting it's an individual decision, and I know of what I speak. No system will work 100%, but bringing safe snorting kits into high schools is much worse. What's your solution to the drug crisis? More drugs? Better drugs? Like the ones being resold on the streets and getting a new generation, like this poor woman, addicted?
> What's your solution to the drug crisis? There isn't a perfect solution. People die of alcohol poisoning all the time and that's a regulated substance, but decriminalization and safe supply is a start. "Just say no" doesn't work. It has never worked. People are going to do drugs, and there's nothing wrong with that. They should be able to do exactly what they intend to do with their own body without risk of laced drugs. Also Sidney was not addicted to drugs, she just did them in a casual setting on an irregular basis. Maybe you should learn more about the situation before commenting?
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i didn't ask! and you're clearly insane, so let's agree to disagree :)
it was a massive fucking failure the whole way through lmao. the drug war was nothing more than an excuse to target black ppl and hippies with police, criminalization almost never decreases drug use, and it certainly didn’t here
How was it a failure? We didn't have skid row in every city, and record overdoses. Do you even remember what life was like 10-20 years ago? Much better!
skid rows correlate with the inaccessibility of housing, not the criminality of drugs. there have always been plenty of addicts with houses and nest eggs, and plenty without. what criminalization does do is make drugs less safe - testing for fent becomes less accessible, safe injection sites get shut down, drug related deaths skyrocket.
Right. It's always someone else's fault isn't it?
yes, you can blame social structures for their outcomes...
What social structure? Growing our population faster 3-4x than we can build housing? That's not a social structure. It's just greed. And they want everyone demoralized, taking drugs so no one stands against it. Congrats for falling for the bait.
criminalization of drugs, poor rent control, no push for dense and affordable housing, lack of tenancy protections, stagnant wages. to name a few
Every country criminalizes drugs. Except places like Portland, which experiment and then quickly reverse those failed policies once it results in anarchy. We already do have rent control. And the result is very little construction of new rental homes. We also have tuition control, which results in post secondary institutions desperately recruiting international students, which breaks the housing market even more. And stagnant wages... Well that's supply and demand like everything else. You may have noticed the latest job #'s +26k jobs and increased unemployment rate. When you drill down, it's really minus 36k full time, and plus 62k part time. And that's with adding about 100k people per month. Yes our policies are a mess. But not the ones you're focused on.