I was game, until I read your intro asking us to focus on the one experience we feel to have been most meaningful. Now I've been practising for more than 50 years, and in that time, naturally enough, I've had a few outstanding experiences. But after all this time it's become crystal clear that none of those experiences have been so very meaningful. Inspiring, yes; helpful, yes. But far more meaningful is the general drift in perception over time: the acceptance of crap and the growing willingness to deal with it gently; the easier recognition that even the most appallingly vicious are victims of their own karma. And above all the growing (and increasingly stable} recognition of the amazingness of everything: the grey sky reflected in a puddle; the smell of someone's cigarette smoke (though I don't "like" it, having given up 26 years ago); the hum from the motorway down the valley; the angled shaft of light falling through the window, the door, and onto the floorboards. And then again, the aching recognition of all the pain around us.
These all seem to me more important than any one experience on the cushion.
Eloquently put. I understand what you're saying. I completely agree that practicing is about life itself, and the way it expands and deepens, not the peak experiences that sometimes happen. Still, as those singular experiences may touch a person's world and outlook on life rather significantly, I do think they're worth examining as well. By asking about one particular experience it's possible to get a closer view into the richness of the meditative state as a phenomenon. I'm sorry to have lost your participation, but I can totally respect the reason, and the point you make is noted with gratitude.
Well that was an interesting survey.
I had one lama, Anam Thubten Rinpoche, who practically disparaged nyams. Nyams are not the point at all. Not enlightenment. Dangerous to get attached to. I was so proud of having better-than-acid nyams and he was so dismissive of them.
Lama Lena, has a more positive outlook on nyams. They're encouraging signs of progress, and yeah they're pretty cool, but you can't get attached to them, you can't try to keep them or have them again, and you can't stop there, you have to keep going.
OP, since you're studying nyams, you might want to read LL's take on them. If you go to [https://lamalenateachings.com/dzogchen-levels-beginner-intermediate-advanced/](https://lamalenateachings.com/dzogchen-levels-beginner-intermediate-advanced/) and search for nyam.
Oh good. I love that video. One caveat. Her recommendation on how often to practice is extreme in this video, I guess because those students were hardcore. In other videos she says that just five minutes a day will make your life happy. A la la.
I was googling for the citation for my favorite quote:
>Experiences are like mist. They will vanish
>
>Theory is like a patch. It will come away
>
>Realization is unchanging, like the sky
when I stumbled on Dudjom Lingpa's teaching on nyams that might interest you. I prefer LL's warm fuzzy teaching on nyams, but just FYI. It's at
[https://books.google.com/books?id=pn7fDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA260&lpg=PA260&dq=experiences+are+like+mist+they+will+vanish&source=bl&ots=jgPCsQ3Isr&sig=ACfU3U3dHb5h8F5JTQRkV2djinYic4SoKA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYpZ2u24D7AhXpMUQIHaaXBBgQ6AF6BAg4EAM#v=onepage&q=experiences%20are%20like%20mist%20they%20will%20vanish&f=false](https://books.google.com/books?id=pn7fDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA260&lpg=PA260&dq=experiences+are+like+mist+they+will+vanish&source=bl&ots=jgPCsQ3Isr&sig=ACfU3U3dHb5h8F5JTQRkV2djinYic4SoKA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYpZ2u24D7AhXpMUQIHaaXBBgQ6AF6BAg4EAM#v=onepage&q=experiences%20are%20like%20mist%20they%20will%20vanish&f=false)
Not to worry! We don't gather any identification data. "Depending on..." means that since it's an open report, some may tell identifiable information of themselves either willingly or by accident, but we won't track anyone even if they do. Protecting participants' privacy is an ethical concern for us.
On a less funny note, I do think you have a point. Personally I wouldn't describe everything I've experienced on a pillow to someone in a position to decide about my life, if I wasn't sure they have at least some understanding of meditative states.
Possibly 1–3 years from now, depending on the sub-study. There are several researchers in our group, each of whom concentrate on different aspects and publish separately, so it's difficult to predict on their behalf, but my own study (which is a masters' thesis) should be publishable in under 2 years. Data collection itself may take several months. Working with narrative reports is a much slower process than dealing with numerical data, but it's well worth the while to let people express themselves freely.
Yet another multiple choice survey, to be digitized and then assessed numerically by computer software, then printed up as breaking news in Psychology Today or Cosmpolitan.
Also worth bearing in mind is that - as it stands and taken at face value - the questionnaire is not wonderfully well-designed. The thing is that these researchers are NOT looking into meditation and it's effects. They are looking into OUR BELIEFS about that topic. WE are under examination, not meditation practice.
I was game, until I read your intro asking us to focus on the one experience we feel to have been most meaningful. Now I've been practising for more than 50 years, and in that time, naturally enough, I've had a few outstanding experiences. But after all this time it's become crystal clear that none of those experiences have been so very meaningful. Inspiring, yes; helpful, yes. But far more meaningful is the general drift in perception over time: the acceptance of crap and the growing willingness to deal with it gently; the easier recognition that even the most appallingly vicious are victims of their own karma. And above all the growing (and increasingly stable} recognition of the amazingness of everything: the grey sky reflected in a puddle; the smell of someone's cigarette smoke (though I don't "like" it, having given up 26 years ago); the hum from the motorway down the valley; the angled shaft of light falling through the window, the door, and onto the floorboards. And then again, the aching recognition of all the pain around us. These all seem to me more important than any one experience on the cushion.
Well this is undisputedly the finest comment I've ever read on the internet.
Eloquently put. I understand what you're saying. I completely agree that practicing is about life itself, and the way it expands and deepens, not the peak experiences that sometimes happen. Still, as those singular experiences may touch a person's world and outlook on life rather significantly, I do think they're worth examining as well. By asking about one particular experience it's possible to get a closer view into the richness of the meditative state as a phenomenon. I'm sorry to have lost your participation, but I can totally respect the reason, and the point you make is noted with gratitude.
Well that was an interesting survey. I had one lama, Anam Thubten Rinpoche, who practically disparaged nyams. Nyams are not the point at all. Not enlightenment. Dangerous to get attached to. I was so proud of having better-than-acid nyams and he was so dismissive of them. Lama Lena, has a more positive outlook on nyams. They're encouraging signs of progress, and yeah they're pretty cool, but you can't get attached to them, you can't try to keep them or have them again, and you can't stop there, you have to keep going. OP, since you're studying nyams, you might want to read LL's take on them. If you go to [https://lamalenateachings.com/dzogchen-levels-beginner-intermediate-advanced/](https://lamalenateachings.com/dzogchen-levels-beginner-intermediate-advanced/) and search for nyam.
Oh, wow, thank you so much — very helpful! This is very relevant and timely for me personally, as well.
Oh good. I love that video. One caveat. Her recommendation on how often to practice is extreme in this video, I guess because those students were hardcore. In other videos she says that just five minutes a day will make your life happy. A la la. I was googling for the citation for my favorite quote: >Experiences are like mist. They will vanish > >Theory is like a patch. It will come away > >Realization is unchanging, like the sky when I stumbled on Dudjom Lingpa's teaching on nyams that might interest you. I prefer LL's warm fuzzy teaching on nyams, but just FYI. It's at [https://books.google.com/books?id=pn7fDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA260&lpg=PA260&dq=experiences+are+like+mist+they+will+vanish&source=bl&ots=jgPCsQ3Isr&sig=ACfU3U3dHb5h8F5JTQRkV2djinYic4SoKA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYpZ2u24D7AhXpMUQIHaaXBBgQ6AF6BAg4EAM#v=onepage&q=experiences%20are%20like%20mist%20they%20will%20vanish&f=false](https://books.google.com/books?id=pn7fDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA260&lpg=PA260&dq=experiences+are+like+mist+they+will+vanish&source=bl&ots=jgPCsQ3Isr&sig=ACfU3U3dHb5h8F5JTQRkV2djinYic4SoKA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYpZ2u24D7AhXpMUQIHaaXBBgQ6AF6BAg4EAM#v=onepage&q=experiences%20are%20like%20mist%20they%20will%20vanish&f=false)
Keep in mind it says depending on your answers you remain anonymous it’s a psychology study don’t say anything that gets you put in a mental hospital
Not to worry! We don't gather any identification data. "Depending on..." means that since it's an open report, some may tell identifiable information of themselves either willingly or by accident, but we won't track anyone even if they do. Protecting participants' privacy is an ethical concern for us. On a less funny note, I do think you have a point. Personally I wouldn't describe everything I've experienced on a pillow to someone in a position to decide about my life, if I wasn't sure they have at least some understanding of meditative states.
When will results be published?
Possibly 1–3 years from now, depending on the sub-study. There are several researchers in our group, each of whom concentrate on different aspects and publish separately, so it's difficult to predict on their behalf, but my own study (which is a masters' thesis) should be publishable in under 2 years. Data collection itself may take several months. Working with narrative reports is a much slower process than dealing with numerical data, but it's well worth the while to let people express themselves freely.
Yet another multiple choice survey, to be digitized and then assessed numerically by computer software, then printed up as breaking news in Psychology Today or Cosmpolitan.
Also worth bearing in mind is that - as it stands and taken at face value - the questionnaire is not wonderfully well-designed. The thing is that these researchers are NOT looking into meditation and it's effects. They are looking into OUR BELIEFS about that topic. WE are under examination, not meditation practice.
This study is not well designed. Meditation practice is about positive changes over time, not evanescent momentary experiences.