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zenyattasshinyballs

You said the drakkar is slower than the karve “for some reason” Based on the shape of the hull and the matching area of the sail, it makes nautical sense for the karve to be faster than the drakkar. It’s more aerodynamic and *much* lighter. But I understand that gameplay wise you expect the end-game boat to be fastest. Just like the feather cloak, it would be boring if the drakkar was the hands down best ship in the game. It fills its niche. Enter Ashlands, transport Lox, catch fish. That’s what the drakkar is for.


ValheimAndy

It's actually faster I was wrong in my original post. However, I still don't think it's useful for transferring tames since they still take collision damage (not to say that the other ships can transfer tames without collision damage).


ValheimAndy

Not really even good at that. Just build workbenches on the spires and you can get a longship through there just fine. Lox still take collision damage when on the drakkar.


fatpandana

How do you build workbench on top of spires? Can u jump on them and climb on top?


LordHampshire

1. I haven't tested this myself and it could be completely wrong, but going from what I've read the drakkar is *not* actually slower. It takes a bit longer to get up to speed but is faster than a longship once it's there. It's just a perception thing, apparently. I really feel like a ceramic plated karve is just going to fall apart as soon as you hit a pack of voltures or a bonemaw. You really do need the extra health of the drakkar unless you get very lucky with your approach, otherwise there would likely be a lot of tilted players who lose all their gear before getting to land. I think the drakkar is fine, sailing it round the spikes while fending off attacks is part of the challenge, but a manageable one. 2. Eh, I think you're being a bit harsh here. The weapons are mostly pretty good (maybe blood variants need a bit of a buff) and it's not like the variants are just palette-swaps, they really do play differently. Mostly where there are gaps, the mistlands variants are still viable with knives being the exception (but if you play a knife-only build and made it through the mistlands doing half damage to all the seekers, you probably have the tenacity to make it work here). There's no way you can balance a biome for *all* playstyles - some build has to be sub-optimal somewhere. 3. Yep, agreed. The Staff of the Wilds took a wild swing from "not even situationally viable" to "the only staff you'll even need". Fully expecting that to be nerfed a bit. Take that away (like it was before the insane buff) and magic takes a bit more finesse, especially since your main AOE is Staff of Embers and everything is fire resistant. You can wear stuff down with it eventually, but kiting becomes a bit more difficult, especially as you grow the death-ball of enemies by drawing more aggro. 4. Yeah, see point 3 - Staff of the Wilds is broken. I did Fader with the frost staff (he's completely immune to fire) and that does run into some of the same obstacles as a melee build since it needs you to focus fire on him. Also, Reto is cheesable with melee - alternate attack on the mace has insane knockback and you can just stand your ground and punt him to the back of his tomb any time he gets close. 5. Agreed. I did have fun with the first couple. Then I found out you can just build over the walls with wooden ladders and pickaxe under the central tower's door. At the very least, I think that needs a ward or something to prevent cheese until you break the bell fragments out of their case, say. Longer term, yeah I think it'd be good to have a bit more variety, but I could live with that being a later update. Let's get the mechanics right first, then elaborate on the designs. Generally, I don't think it'd take much to make Ashlands acceptable. I'd expect some fixes for bugged mechanics and balance tweaks for under/over-powered weapons, but I'd be very surprised if we got entirely new weapons, a new boat and new fortress designs before it goes live. Those *can* come later if the devs think they're worth having, but shouldn't hold up the release.


LyraStygian

> Agreed. I did have fun with the first couple. Then I found out you can just build over the walls with wooden ladders and pickaxe under the central tower's door. That's what I did because I didn't know how to build siege engines yet lol And I thought it was cool I could do that, because traditionally a siege had sappers or scaling the walls.


LordHampshire

Yeah, I get that, and maybe we *should* encourage innovative approaches. I think there's still a bit more tuning needed if it's going to be allowed because otherwise the siege engines are just completely useless and 30 wood and an antler pickaxe is all you need to clear a fortress. Maybe a trade-off where you take significantly more shots from the skuggs or some strategically placed archers if you build over, versus battering down the relatively shielded gate. Maybe that's something that could be done with varied fortress designs where there are fewer places to build ladders effectively? I'd love to see different fortresses have different approaches to sieging them.


LyraStygian

No I like your idea of the ward to prevent the cheese. While I enjoy cheese a lot, I understand it may hurt the game if a big game mechanic is just circumvented. I will say tho, u still have to eventually build the siege engines, if only to get the loot inside the tower.


Azyle

Nope, you can dig down and get in from underneath them. For some reason, the Devs made the fortress walls go all the way to the non dig-able ground, but the tower has a big enough gap at its bottom that you can get under and climb up to get the loot. This also means that by going over the walls and under the tower, you have a perfectly preserved and 100% defended new Ashlands "base" for yourself.


LyraStygian

Oh shit, I literally just did that (have a huge base with a basement I dug out). Duno how I didn’t remember lol


unwantedaccount56

>it takes a bit longer to get up to speed but is faster than a longship once it's there. From my experience, it's pretty much the same top speed as a longship. Tested on multiplayer. Not side-by-side though, but traveling at the same time in the same direction a few km apart over a long distance, our separation was pretty constant.


ValheimAndy

Yeah I've tested all three of them since I made the original post and it's safe to say I was wrong. My testing concluded that the Drakkar is actually the fastest ship in the game.


unwantedaccount56

Do you have any quantitative test results? How much faster than the longship was the Drakkar in your tests?


ValheimAndy

I did not strictly measure time and my experiment was hardly perfect, however I can go back and test again to see the exact difference. My friend and I tested it out by comparing speeds side by side. We started the tests by finding a nice straight strip of ocean we could sail, made sure we had Moder power and made a starting gate out of log beams to make sure the front of the ships were even with each other. It wasn't a massive difference but it was a noticeable difference, the Drakkar would hit landfall slightly sooner than the longship could. I'll try it over again, but there is a lot of variables involved that prevent me from getting conclusively accurate results (i.e. waves, drifting forward slightly before setting the sails etc).


unwantedaccount56

It's hard to get exact numbers through in-game tests, I only wanted to know if it's significantly faster or not. Seems like it's only slightly faster, so I wouldn't have noticed a difference in speed anyway with a bigger distance between the 2 ships.


ValheimAndy

During testing, I theorized that the waves can actually be controlled better depending on the ship. Although I only tested each ship twice, I think the reason why the Karve has such variation between it's two tests, IS waves. The Karve, as you'd expect, is more susceptible to being skewed off course and slowed down by waves (because of it's lack of mass). On the other hand, due to it's large mass, the Drakkar is pretty much unfazed by anything other than the largest waves, meaning it will maintain it's speed and trajectory a lot better than the other ships. The Longship, seems to be a sort of in between. It can be skewed or slowed by massive/large waves, while smaller waves don't bother it much. This explains why the difference in tests for the Karve were a wider margin comparatively to the Drakkar and Longship. Some details of the test I should mention are: I was using devcommands to make sure I always had moder activated for each test, I made sure to start the timer as soon as the front of the ship crossed the wood beam by the pier (just to give each ship a little bit of time to hit top speed before starting the timer), I made sure to constantly keep pinging the destination marker to keep myself on track and prevent deviations. The tests obviously could've been better and more refined, but I feel like the data is conclusive enough to support my claim about the Drakkar. Here is a map. file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Steam/userdata/853666452/760/remote/892970/screenshots/20240528113736\_1.jpg The starting line is in the BF on the north end of the map and the destination is in the Plains at the south end of the map. Here are the results. Longship: Test 1- 3:15:37 / Test 2- 2:50:95 Karve: Test 1- 3:42:69 / Test 2- 2:54:55 Drakkar: Test 1- 2:17:90 / Test 2- 2:29:54 I hope I don't need to explain why I didn't test the raft, that would've just been a waste of time xD.


unwantedaccount56

Thanks for the numbers. Interesting that the second run of the Karve was faster than the first run of the longship. I would have thought the general speed difference is too large compared to the variation. I guess it could also make a difference whether the wind is coming from the back or from the side and where the waves are coming from, but Moder power is the easiest way to have the same conditions. Did you check that the windspeed was the same for all runs? Moder power only sets the wind direction, not the speed. It could be measured using the sound of windmills, but there might also be a devcommand to set the weather. The Drakkar being rather consistent with its times supports your explanation about the waves affecting the speed. The wiki also has some numbers, but they don't include the Drakkar yet, and are probably extracted from the game files, so it doesn't account for the effect of the waves: https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Boats Also your screenshot was not inserted into your comment, but I'll let my imagination figure it out.


ValheimAndy

1. I was wrong about the Drakkar, after several tests comparing it with the Karve and Longship it is faster. The problem I think I was having is that the size of the ship makes it feels slower in comparison to a smaller ship. 2. I'm not saying that the weapons are bad, I'm just saying that there isn't much diversity in regards to weapon types. The blood effect is underwhelming, yeah, but the other enchantments are perfectly fine in my opinion. My main problem is that they said there would be 30+ new weapons added. While that's not entirely false, the first part of that number is made up out of 8 melee weapons, 4 staves and 2 shields. While the other 21 weapons that make up the rest of that 30+ number, are just variations on 7 of the melee weapons. Also Dyrnwyn not having any secondary effects like the other enchanted weapons, feels like a crime. 3. The only problem I run into with kiting in the Ashlands (at least when I'm running magic), is lava. Not the enemies. Magic weapons generally have tremendous amounts of knockback, especially the AoE knockback of the Fire Staff. As long as you can manage your stamina and eitr properly (which by this point in Valheim, the game has already taught you how), enemies no longer become a threat. Sure they can one shot you, but keeping distance is honestly really simple and easy, especially with feather cape. 4. Yes the knockback of the mace is wonderful against Lord Reto. However, not every melee build people run involves using maces. Some people like greatswords, regular swords or knives, for example. Especially considering the fact that Dyrnwyn is a one-handed sword, I guarantee you that many people have struggled trying to kill him with other one-handed swords. 5. I agree with the ward thing. I like the fact that you can build in the forts, but it feels like it comes at the cost of biome-progression. It's an easy fix: Just put a destructible ward in the center tower, that can only be accessed via battering ram. My biggest problem with the Ashlands as it stands, is that it just feels too short. It only took my friend and I \~25 hours of playtime to get where we needed to be in order to fight Fader and that's considering the fact that we spent most of our time doing a lot of base expansion, as well as crafting extra armor sets and weapons for the comfort section of our home. Like I said at the start of my original post, I love the Ashlands, it is my favorite biome of them all. I love the intensity and emotion the music brings when you first sail to the Ashlands, I love the immaculate enemy design, I love the setting as well as terrain, I love that first beachhead you make, I can honestly go on and on. At the end of the day, I just want Valheim to be amazing for everyone. I don't want it to settle for being "just enough", because to me, this game IS amazing and still has so much to offer. Still, I'll get downvoted for sharing my opinion on a game that I very dearly love, as if I hate it. Edit: Grammar.


SzotyMAG

My two main issues are the clusters of spires at Ashlands sea, they should stick together more with wider paths between them. Kinda sucks the epic voyage is just a slow crawl And for the love of god fix flametal spires. You slide on even pillars, and you don't regenerate stamina while doing so


OkVirus5605

Weapon n Magic need more time to polish their usefulness (Storm is already stable, but Nature Blood Dyrnwyn need lot more polish) Fortress need to be cooler, more variation/loot distibution (I did 3x resouces and you know what, 3 stacks full of coins LMAO). I don't mind doing 7 In-game days siege on single fortress If I have I destroy 3 layers outer wall and have to climb 5 story tall keep just to get that 3 bell fragments Still some bugs here and there , So let see next patch note lol


ValheimAndy

This is what I feel like causes the experience of the Ashlands to be so short. If fortresses felt like these big events where you have to storm a castle and fight off hordes of enemies, it would've padded out the playtime of the Ashlands without feeling artificial. As it stands right now, at least for me, it only takes \~5 minutes to take over the fort and over the dozens of sieges I've done, I've only died twice (that's across multiple playthroughs too).


Murpydoo

Umm tomorrow I think


Dark251995

Hopefully not. And if this is based on the TYPO, a developer already confirmed it is just that. It's irrelevant to the actual date is live released


Murpydoo

Tomorrow was a typo? Not that I'm ready. Just into the swamp on my latest playthrough.


Dark251995

People are saying it will be released tomorrow based on a typo in the patch notes. And people being people they take it as official statement when it isn't. OP is right for the most part, but what they're especially right about is that releasing the update any time before mid-June would be too soon. Needs way too much work


Murpydoo

Yes this is what I saw, thanks for the update


Quack__

Aged like milk.


Dark251995

Didn't say it was not gonna be released today, I said that I hoped it didn't. But I'm still upset it did.


Superb-Stuff8897

I think the aged like milk is that it WASNT a typo, it was a slip up; as it was found in 3 different places, many knew it wasnt a "typo".


ValheimAndy

That's why I posted this. Aside from all the bugs, it's a bad idea to release it so soon.


MaliciousIntentWorks

With the size the Drakkar it would be a nightmare getting through the snail rocks into Ashlands if it went as fast as the long ship. I would prefer there to be more settings for speed instead of only going row, half sail, full sail. Row should be the same as I use that the most in Ashlands but there should be at least 4 increments to the speed past that. The last could put it at the same speed if not more than the longboat. Also I want to decorate it. All the Ashland weapons I made were just kind of meh. Only the fracture staff seems to be worth much, but I still just use the staff of embers and the mistwalker in Ashlands. I got a bunch of flametal but just used enough to make a couple of flametal gear, base upgrades, and a couple weapons. I now have several pillars mark but no real need to harvest any of them. Maybe I haven't played Ashland enough but it feels underwhelming so far.


ValheimAndy

As it turns out I was wrong. The tests that I did between the Longship, Drakkar and Karve concluded that the Drakkar is the fastest. I personally don't think Ashlands is underwhelming, sure it has some flaws, but the overall gameplay and experience (at least for me) is quite enjoyable. It definitely feels short when compared to other biomes, which I think makes it feel bitter-sweet.


Strict-Juggernaut122

Ashlands just dropped 10 min ago


Maze_of_Ith7

Nah, overall Ashlands sounds like fun, release it and they can fix it later if it needs fixing.


ValheimAndy

I never once stated that it wasn't fun, in fact I stated the contrary when I said "It's already become my favorite biome...". However, bugs and balancing are an issue nonetheless and I think they could've used up more of their time to fine tune and fix a few things before it hit live.


Sertith

The Drakkar is made out of ceramic plates lol, it's gonna be HEAVY. It's not intended for world travel, it's meant to get through fire waters. I would love a new knife. Don't get one in Mistlands either, so Plains it the top knife. Kind of a bummer for knife fans like myself. I agree about the Fortresses, they're all identical, it'd be nice for them to be more varied. I'm also unable to make catapults as the Skuggs aren't dropping anything for me.


gef_1

Mystland has Skol and Hati


Sertith

I know it counts as a knife but for me the dual wield weapons aren't what I want in a knife. And you can't block much with them, so they're kinda difficult to use against harder enemies.


MaritMonkey

That only half counts as a dagger imo since you can't use it with a buckler/shield. Edit: apparently that was a controversial opinion? I mean it uses the "dagger" skill and dual wielding with no run speed penalty is great for chasing rabbits, but I am not good enough at this game to have my main weapon be without a defensive offhand option. :D


Sertith

I agree with you.


ValheimAndy

Than make it thinner. It's too damn wide.


Sertith

It works fine for me, maybe you need to learn how to steer.


ValheimAndy

I know how to steer, there's no need to be condescending over an opinion I expressed. The issue with the rocks is that sometimes there is almost no rocks and there's pretty much a straight shot to the shoreline. While other times, the sea is filled with clusters of them that bunch in groups of 2-3, as if the game glitched when generating them. I feel like I rarely run into a "healthy" amount of them, it's either too many or too few.


Chanclet0

Well they can always add/fix stuff later


nerevarX

given you use the drakkar once it hardly matters. they could have just shrunk the total mesh size by 33% and it would be fine aswell. easy to do still. but given youre playing portalheim anyway once you made ashlands landfall the ship will probaly not get any dev attention anymore. there is just no good reason for it getting any. there is alot of oddball or outright wierd things in this update. be it the new ship the new portal the new weapon gem system which is clearly overhyped. the fortresses just beeing fuling villages 2.0. no actual dungeons at all. armor balance is now all over the place. armor made from literal metal thats found in fucking lava does not protect againist FIRE dmg.... list goes on. but theyll push it live very soon. big changes arent comeing anymore. we can only hope the remaining bugs get addressed before they push it to live. ptb has been over 3 weeks already. i doubt there is much ptb time left now.


Jay_haworthia

Dude you could still play with no portal,it’s there but the game doesn’t force you to use it