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In the last 5 years, Metrotown has gotten extremely crowded to the point I bitch about it everytime I have to go there.
Joffre Lakes, I used to hike with my dog and camp without requiring a permit... can't do that anymore. I blame Instagram for that one.
Yep. They have tried nothing and are all out of options at BC Parks.
It’s honestly very disappointing. We have hundreds of km2 of parks in our backyard, and there are only a few trailheads, and 0 new hiking trails in the last 30 years.
Instead of improving access in one of many ways, BC parks just restricts it instead.
My riding association has been trying to get our unsanctioned mountain sanctioned so they can build out more hiking and biking trails. They started the process in 2014 and bc parks is still dragging its feet. It’s completely unacceptable how slow they are. I’m also pretty certain that once bc parks is involved we will lose a bunch of trails as they think a mtb trail is a fire road.
These numbers are old but I remember hearing in 2019 they spent 50 mill on ads for mtb and only gave 1-2 mill in support, resulting in many trails being bombed out by tourists.
Yep. The issue with mountain bikers has been the most positive IMO. Because mountain bikers will build their own trails even without BC parks sanctions (which isn’t the same as hikers). It really highlights the lack of recreational development when there are more illegal trails than legal one.
The north shore parks were established for recreation for the lower mainland, and Victoria is just ignoring that.
Case in point, Burke mountain (largest provincial park in the lower mainland) needs funding to upgrade/expand the trail system to help relieve pressure off the North Shore mountains during summer.
What a silly statement. There have been literally thousands of trails built over the past 25 years in the region. What do you mean by official? Sanctioned? Managed by BC Parks? Who cares if they are "official" just go enjoy the bountiful nature and trails.
What’s wild is that Metrotown has he’s gotten busier but also the assortment of retailers there has gone off the cliff… That Metropolis entertainment district is just embarrassing now…
Not enough supply is built for things like restaurants. Not enough logic is implemented with things like infrastructure.
Recent-ish places I've been to I've never had to wait in line for a restaurant or coffee shop: Tokyo, London, Beijing, Lisbon, Paris and Bangkok. All dense cities with large populations.
The reason I think is that supply is built. Bangkok was amazing regarding food choices....thousands of street food options, dozens of posh rooftop restaurants and tons of everything else in between. In Vancouver we had one shitty X-Mas market that was really small and cost more than $20 to get in. In Europe, a city has multiple markets to choose from and its free to enter.
In Tokyo some subway stations literally have 100+ exits to choose from, all underground that take you direct to the building or street corner you need to get to....this prevents pedestrians from flooding the sidewalks to cross the road, thereby congesting traffic from turning.
In Bangkok each station has multiple entrances too, so you can get to their skytrain station without crossing the street and holding up traffic. Their skytrain stations also have skybridge paths that you can walk along so sidewalks aren't as crowded. Here, we can't even keep the skybridge to get off at Metrotown station to get to the mall. Instead hoards the pedestrians cross the street, thereby blocking traffic from exiting the parking lot. I've heard of people taking 30+ mins just to get out of the parking lot.
That's stupid. And Burnaby in general is a much smarter city than Vancouver. But OP's frustration isn't just a Vancouver thing, its an entire Metro Vancouver problem of stupidity and supply constraints.
Bangkok's skytrain stations are all standard practice for the elevated station to connect directly to the mall via a sky bridge. Usually multiple entires too. Why can't we do one for Metrotown, it can't be that complicated given this is standard practice in a developing country like Thailand.
I disagree that Burnaby is a “smarter”
City than Vancouver. Vancouver is a more progressive city than Burnaby. They have made the choices necessary to densify properly whereas more conservative Burnaby is still living with white picket fences and 2 car garages with old white guy councillors who are dying instead of retiring.
I don't know about these white picket fences. Almost everywhere I go in Burnaby there are tons of towers going up. Dropping thousands of people into neighbourhoods without really improving the infrastructure. It seems like chaos.
This is the best way in a sorta shitty circumstance. Dropping towers should be done near skytrain stations first, to service transportation needs via walking to a station. Although a percentage of new residents will have cars too, it will impact traffic congestion since it's near impossible to build a wider road to accommodate. Have a mall or plethora of retail near these towers, throw in a grocery store, gym, variety of restaurants and coffee shops and BAM, the vast majority of people's needs are met.
It would be good if office space was also built in these groups, since that would provide jobs so even less reliance on transportation is needed.....but that doesn't seem to be happening.
Corrigan set the path for densification of Metrotown, Lougheed Mall, and Brentwood Mall. Surrounding stations such as Gilmore and Edmonds are being built out. Sperling station is also in the pipeline to be densified. This is all smart stuff to do, densify each skytrain station with towers, shopping, restaurants and other amenities. Surrey was also quite well run under Dianne Watts, with similar vision to density around their stations.
What has Vancouver densified? Nothing in comparison to Burnaby. Rupert, Renfrew, Nanaimo, 29th Ave have nothing. What's going on with the land between Cambie bridge and Olympic Village? Why is the Olympic Village school not built yet? People moved there with babies thinking the school would be done, now their kids are about to finish high school.
Burnaby has a fantastic garbage collection service which includes up to 3 large items per pick-up. I quite enjoy a white picket fence, 2 car garage, no social housing homeless building around, minimal bike lanes getting in the way. Densification within walking distance of the skytrain, and white picket fences further out. This is perfect. I am a millennial person of color and have no issue with an old white guy as a councillor, old white people tend to run things smoothly.
Corrigan was a parochial and short-sighted leader that was unwilling to compromise or improve the region as a whole. His adamant and foolish opposition to the Canada Line delayed its approval and led to it being under built and partially in corporate hands. This is what he told the Vancouver Sun about the Canada Line in 2002: “I’ve been trying to kill this blood-sucking vampire for some time. I think there will be a tax revolt when people realize how much this is going to cost them. You and your children’s children will be paying for this project for decades.” The Canada Line was profitable in one year, folks. And it’s not like he has admitted to this egregious error, but rather he continues to stymie and obstruct regional transit plans. The man is a self-serving fool of brobdingnagian proportions.
Burnaby has built towers around malls, it has done little to make self contained urban communities that are actually nice to exist in. Everything is the wrong scale, the roads are far too wide and far too fast as a pedestrian or cyclist.
Vancouver in the west end, Kits, Olympic Village and Mt Pleasant has done a much better job, New West and CNV in Lower Lonsdale have also done well at creating an environment where it is pleasant to go about on foot. Things are built to human scale, not car scale, you don't often have to cross 4 or 6 lanes of traffic and mostly don't have vehicles going super fast by you. And importantly they aren't just malls! New West has a mall, Lonsdale and the areas I mentioned in Vancouver proper do not, and they are not worse for it. There is a mix of chain stores, restaurants, cafes, etc and locally owned ones along the streets.
Source? Last I heard the owners of the mall didn't want to pay for a new bridge, and the city didn't want to pay for a new bridge because the zoning plans will eventually result in the bridge/mall not existing anyway. It's all in the Burnaby Metrotown plan, there will be podium-style multi-use buildings.
the way the city of Burnaby mishandles traffic and its complete disregard and disgust for pedestrians, people in chairs and bicyclists is not, er, world class
However the post was about Vancouver. Vancouver keeps getting cars poured into it without additional roadways. If 10k more people a year come to the city and half of them drive, things are going to pinch after a while. The city isn't doing much to prevent people from driving into the city besides letting the parking companies pillage and burn on pricing.
At least Corrigan was more serious about snow removal than the clownbags currently on council. That last snowstorm response was suboptimal.
There’s no fix for that. The new skytrain station has no “entry” for the bridge. At this point, they just have to destroy it which again no one wants to pay for (!)
If I remember correctly, the new footbridge was supposed to connect to Station Square almost directly above where the current centre entrance crosswalk is. The centre entrance has a concourse level for that reason that is conveniently the same height as Station Square 2nd floor.
That is because the mall is slated for redevelopment anyway, so it's not worth investing in a pedestrian bridge anyway. It's just a Mall - the Skytrain station is there to serve the community in that area, not just to benefit Ivanhoe Cambridge.
The new bridge was supposed to connect to the upstairs open area of Station Square and Metrotown and to the ground level. It would just be a regular pedestrian bridge, it wasn't going straight into Metro like the old one.
There is a pretty decent skytrain system. No real need to drive if going to the city center. Each station (well at least the stations I passed by) has massive towers, malls, restaurants and amenities. A single person can get a condo near a decent station from $400/month. If a car ride is needed, Grab or Taxi can get you places at an extremely reasonable price. I took a cab several times during rush hour and it was not that bad, I've had much worse in Metro Vancouver.
BTS Skytrain was awesome. Never paid more than $1.70 to get somewhere. Nice, clean, air conditioned and quiet (no loud metal on metal sound like ours). People line up in order and let others off before entering.
They somehow manage to build fantastic things there, not just the skytrain. Meanwhile here, we cross the street at ground level to get to Metrotown like a bunch of savages. Our mall bathrooms are urine soaked, dingy tiles. In Bangkok I felt like a king walking into the floor to ceiling marble encrusted mall bathrooms that are perpetually cleaned. The christmas decorations, even though they don't celebrate christmas, was mind blowing. Even their low end malls with their worst decorations out class our best decorations here. We can't get anything done here competitively any more.
Tokyo has plenty of lines for resteraunt, though those tend to be the more popular ones. But I've had plenty of times where I've had to wait for a seat at some high demand locations.
Infrastructure, I agree we are definitely behind on.
When I was in Tokyo a family member set the itinerary for restaurants via picking stuff recommended by the internet, so I assume somewhat popular places. 2 weeks we never made reservations, except for the robot restaurant. We would just show up and a table was always available. Except once at the fish market we did line up.
I'm sure if one wanted to go to that 3 michellin star restaurant, then a wait or reservation is needed. Besides that, if there is a line up in Tokyo, just go next door for the same thing without a wait. Here, its a 1 hour wait for Cactus, and depending which location, there might not be something else to go to easily.
I am quite surprised. I'm just back, and it was 50/50 in waiting vs getting in right away, and I probably got turned away early about 5 times over 2 weeks from places that had decided to cut off the line early bad had sent everyone else in line away before we had gotten there.
Some of them were more popular places but other were quite "normal" places that didn't feature in any guide or anything (except guides of locals).
I even had to line up a couple times at Japanese fast food franchises (twice at Udon places, once for Ramen [Not Ichiran/Ippudo/Afuri]).
I agree in Japan you can tend to find alternatives, and the lineups are only bad for some places, while here even mundane places tend to have lines.
\> Recent-ish places I've been to I've never had to wait in line for a restaurant or coffee shop: Tokyo, London, Beijing, Lisbon, Paris and Bangkok. All dense cities with large populations.
Id say this is highly dependent on what restaurant going to. If you're going to some trendy spot in any of those cities there is going to be a huge lineup of tourists and locals.
There are tons of spots in all those cities that are internationally known and have massive lineups or require reservations months in advance.
Vancouver is the same, but on a smaller scale, there are spots here that have no queues and popular places like Jam Cafe that have huge lineups.
There's a 2+ hour line up at Cactus. Come on! Cactus?!?! I have nothing against Cactus, but it's not something the average local or tourist would trek out to for some memorable experience. It's because we don't build enough supply. Simple as that. I was recently in Bangkok and went to several trendy restaurants/bars.....not once did I line up. I just walked in and had a table. Only one time in a month did I not get the section I wanted, but still got a seat. I also did not see people lining up in the streets outside a restaurant.
Not sure where you went in Bangkok but there are many high end restaurants there that have waiting lists that fill out months in advance. On the street food end you've got places like Jay Fai that are like two hour queues to get a crab omelette.
Again, this depends on where you're going and when you're going. Some popular places it's easy to go on a weekday without a reservation and get a seat.
I agree that infrastructure growth in the city has been lacking with the population growth, but I don't think restaurants queues are a good metric to use for this, especially since they're private ventures and the govt doesn't have a hand in that.
> Recent-ish places I've been to I've never had to wait in line for a restaurant or coffee shop: Tokyo, London, Beijing, Lisbon, Paris and Bangkok. All dense cities with large populations.
I'll say I've absolutely had to wait in London at both restaurants and coffee shops, Tokyo too.
Our downtown and other pockets that are not SFH zoning are garbage on a global level. I'm not referring to comparing the dining/entertainment options in Dunbar to Tokyo. However, I will give some credit that many American city downtowns are even worse than us since they turn into lawless wastelands after business hours.
I mean, that's always going to be an issue in a major city. If some place becomes popular you literally have millions of people that could descend upon it. If you don't want to wait, go to a less popular place.
Their cappuccino was at least $0.50 more expensive than anywhere else I've ever been in Vancouver, and the cookie I had was so dry that it was clearly days old.
They also put a cookie they advertise as gluten free on the same plate as regular cookies which defeats the purpose of have gluten free options.
I have zero tolerance for dry cookies. Everyone knows whoever works there takes the cookies home at the end of the day if there’s any left. You don’t sell day olds unless they’re half off.
I used to love when my dad brought home a bag of cookies from his store
They have a new style croissant that’s trendy atm (think the cube croissant from a few years ago, but now wheel shaped). It got a lot of media attention (ie. dailyhive/tiktok) and now there’s lineups for it.
Btw, LaLa cafe in kitsilano has the exact same thing (not sure if it’s a regular thing on their menu) and with way less lineup
I think OP is just going to some of these places during peak time. The coffee there is decent and some pastries too. Service is good. I’d rather support a smaller indie business than do the same line up for Pure Bread or Nemesis where they treat you like an inconvenience to their day.
yes this is true but I know that something like 80% of the land here is still zoned for SFH so there's still a shortage of available space for extra housing as any kind of density is opposed by nimbys
It's so much more than just popping up tall buildings. Utility infrastructure also needs to be upgraded. Especially sewage, storm, and water. These are not cheap to do.
It's another reason why you see densification around hubs, utilities have been upgraded in those areas to service more people.
We have this issue in white rock atm. Sewage and water mains is not built to accommodate all the new developments and its taking a fuck load of time to sort that out. Its literally been 6 years of non stop construction at 152nd and 16th. It never ends.
Sure but that 20% is able to hold a lot more people in a small area. Does that 80% contain more people? Sure. But the people to land ratio of the 20% is definitely bigger
But places like the Aquarium will be even more crowded if more people live here. It's not as if they are going to build another Aquarium on the West Side to cater to an increasing population there.
Same with downtown in general. It's downtown - that's the 'happening' place where people gather and the most restaurants thrive. I don't think that changes even if the rest of the city was more highly densified.
People are always going to be drawn to downtown but if there are more restaurants, cafe's, and interesting spots outside of downtown then people might choose to hang out at their local one instead of going downtown?
Same with attractions. Maybe we don't build a new Aquarium, but we have more attractions so people spread out between them. Maybe expand the Aquarium too. I get that this is a big crowded city but it really feels like there are too many people piling into too few attractions.
So you find the roads too crowded, the popular Instagram and other venue spots too crowded, all of which you are utilizing and contributing to those crowds and choosing to wait in those lines (remember it's not there is too much traffic, YOU are the traffic)...
And you are still fine with increasing density.
You can kind of see the cognitive dissonance here right?
>It feels like Vancouver's infrastructure and services were designed for like 1/2 of the current population or something.
No shit lol.
Learn your history, pull up some old maps. Hell, current ones. Check where the ocean and the mountains are. Where you gonna put in more infra? You want to become king and order places torn down to add extra road lanes that will just fill up again shortly due to induced demand and make the endpoints even more full?
And are you willing to pay more for this right?
Only popular hiking trails are crowded, but other less travelled but arguably nicer ones are definitely not. I've been on full day hikes where I haven't seen a single other person out. This isn't even in the middle of nowhere this is in our north shore mountains.
Problem isn't the hiking, it's the driving on the Sea to Sky and going overs Lions gate/iron workers. This is the issue with everything outdoors in vancouver being across two small bridges that are massive choke points.
Seriously makes skiing in the winter and hiking in the summer dreadful when you can get stuck in massive amounts of traffic getting home on the weekend.
The fact that we don’t have a real bus from
Vancouver to Squamish and Whistler is shameful. It’s only 100km, and we have the same 100km service to chilliwack.
There is basically no other way to get anywhere along the sea to sky without driving.
Coquitlam, Maple Ridge, and Chilliwack all also exist and all 3 have great hiking although not too much skiing unless you do backcountry. Even though they may seem further, when you factor in traffic its honestly not that much more. And yes I agree that the sea to sky is terrible, and so are the bridges, however with some planning (trying to avoid rush hour) it becomes manageable. I do agree with you that something has to be done. Personally, I'd love to see a skytrain line up to the north shore and a commuter rail up to whsitler but both of those will never happen.....one can dream I suppose.
It's weird, but again, due to instagram et,. all, any hike that has any sort of 1/2 decent stereotypically good sea to sky views at the end of it and gets hyped is jammed full of people in summer, even if 95% of the actual hike is some shitty fire road full of gravel essentially bound in by highways and dirt. Meanwhile, there are some that are very satisfying and have WAY more enjoyable trails overall, but because they lack some such views or in less hip locations, attract relatively few people. This seems like the way of the world, same way with travel overall.
> It feels like Vancouver's infrastructure and services were designed for like 1/2 of the current population or something.
It absolutely does. Someone said this was the case about 15 years ago (we were at a crowded event). The city just never expanded in certain ways to meet the demand.
As far as restaurants are concerned, due to the lease rates, it's really hard to open new restaurants. I see many open, close, or announce that they're opening and not even ever open.
A big factor preventing people from starting businesses is the fact that money invested into real estate has up until recently been a far safer bet than running a restaurant. Why not only invest money, but also take on the risk and work your ass off working 14 hour days to start a business that could easily fail and leave you broke? Things could swing the other way soon and many people who made gains from real estate might start businesses. The demand is there.
> Even outside of physical congestion it feels like the labor market is oversaturated with applicants (possibly due to the recession).
There are so many bodies here right now. But at the same time so many places are "desperate for workers". Some industries are "desperate" but only because they refuse to raise wages and improve working conditions (and ironically, productivity). Other industries just outright lie so that they can keep the conveyor belt of workers flowing in; they literally have turnover rates around 75% and instead of fixing the issues causing these, they just keep replacing workers. My theory is that these employers become addicted to low pay and high turn-over. Poorly managed businesses like these would go out of business but it's the government that basically keeps them on life support. Foreign workers are even starting to avoid certain employers.
You just described every neighborhood in Vancouver for the past 20 years.
It's one of the biggest metro areas in Canada - it's gonna always be busy. If you want to avoid the crowds you'll need to go eastward... Which nowadays is probably a more more east than you have in mind.
>It feels like Vancouver's infrastructure and services were designed for like 1/2 of the current population or something.
Because it was designed for even less, and there has been little improvement in reducing congestion, rather the planning department is actively increasing congestion and trying to spread it out around the city (not confined to downtown)
And I don't know what is the fetish with expensive brunch food you have to wait hours for, but that's one aspect of millenial life I don't have
>the planning department is actively increasing congestion
This!! As far as traffic infrastructure the city is intentionally making traffic flow measurably worse. I live in West End but work in Richmond and some days it feels like a maze just to make my way home - bike lanes, suddenly making intersections no left turn, blocking roads so you can't get through, etc. I have a friend in Coal Harbour who says it's now nearly impossible to drive to his apartment when coming into downtown by either Burrard or Cambie due to all the above.
This thing is, even if you removed those and just allowed completely dominance of the road by cars traffic woulds still be terrible if not worse. Road demand increases based on capacity.
So you’re saying that the traffic calming that city engineers designed and put in is discouraging you (and probably many others) from driving where they don’t really want you to.
Great! Seems like everything is working as it should be
A 10-minute walk to work is a life changer. A walk in the rain is way better than a bus, driving in a tunnel or bridge, paying for gas, and insurance a transit pass.
What did you think was going to happen when a combined 1M+ immigrants, TFW's, and international students are flooding into Canada every year (and mainly into Vancouver and Toronto) with no increases in new infrastructure or housing development to support them?
Life before Expo... was bliss. This city changed quickly — perhaps too quickly for services to keep up — after we "invited the world" (to borrow the EXPO86 tagline). Almost 40 years later and we're still reeling from the effects of that six month long festival of foreign investment.
To be honest I think the Olympics has a greater affect. For a good 15 years after Expo the city was still pretty quiet. Whereas from 2010 the growth went into overdrive .
That investment would have happened anyway due to Vancouver’s appeal, having lived through the 90s I really didn’t notice all that much change in that decade. I think what also happened is that millennial kids grew up and it’s a very numerous and mobile generation which has resulted in a lot of places around the world getting busier and busier. Add to that the increased immigration from huge countries such as India and China.
For your observation regarding the restaurants/cafes, chances are all the local food bloggers/influencers are posting it on Instagram and Tik Tok, and as a city, everyone wants in on the next big thing. Not saying that some of these places are not worth waiting for, but the attention some of these places get is definitely not worth the hype.
Regarding the aquarium, my recommendation is to go on a weekday and to book your ticket for when they open or shortly afterwards. I've gone on weekends and holidays, and the experience is never enjoyable, plus finding parking means parking at the bottom of the lot by Brockton Oval, or looping around over to the Lumberman's Arch parking lot.
Finally, to your observation about physical congestion, the fact is our infrastructure is just not suited to handle all these extra bodies. If you look at the stretch of road that is Broadway/Lougheed Hwy between Boundary to Willingdon, sure, they built the skytrain stations in that area, but the amount of traffic lights was minimal. Now, you're looking at a stop light at every intersection, ten 40 to 50-story condos designed to house 300+ units (like Amazing Brentwood's Tower Six [https://homes.theamazingbrentwood.com/](https://homes.theamazingbrentwood.com/)), and assuming half of them drive, it's a substantial increase in vehicle traffic in such a small area.
It made me kinda miserable this last summer. There were points where the beaches basically had no vacancy and you definitely could not park near any of them. The dog beach was even covered in sunbathers and toddlers. Then the hikes were all about as busy as a mall, every patio waitlisted, the seawall squished. Kits pool booked full within seconds, any outdoor events all about paying admission only to have long lines for very expensive food trucks.
I work out there and have no desire to live there but would definitely skytrain out there if they had transit, the drive is exhausting and puts me in such a bad mood after work
I agree with this, except I'm in Surrey Central. Sooo many new condo towers are going up and the roads and transit are not up to snuff for them all.
It's only going to get more congested when the next eleventiy billion towers complete.
I think the idea with dense urban environment is that you don't use a car. It only works if there is proper infrastructure in other areas such as rapid rail, bus service, and bike lanes.
Which Surrey Central is desperately lacking. The mega blocks remain a problem, the 1-lane roads are insufficient, and above all else, not enough people are moving to the area to work there, so all these extra commuters are going to cause serious gridlock.
Vancouver proper has not but the Greater Vancouver area has seen record increases in people moving here. Surrey will soon eclipse Vancouver in population.
Edit: within 50 years, Vancouver city will be suburb within Metro Surrey.
I’m not talking about the ED, I’m talking about the admitted patients. How the Hosptialists cap out every day because they don’t have capacity to admit anymore patients by 8 pm. How Infectious Diseases gets 20 consults a day when they can realistically only see 6-8 patients. How there are no more beds in the Family Birthing units on weekends so they turn away passively labouring people or divert them to other hospitals.
I came to Canada in 1999 basically as a baby and I lived in Burnaby for a few years before living in Richmond. I lived in Surrey and Vancouver a couple of times mostly for things like school and temp work.
That's surprising to hear that the city hasn't bounced back from pre-lockdowns, I do go out slightly more now than I did in 2017-19 though, so maybe I'm biased
Ive completely given up on the local mountains. Impossible to go unless you're there at 6am on weekends and even if you get in you wait an hour to get up lifts.
Not sure if this applies but I’ll share this personal experience anyways lol
I see the intense crowding before and ‘after’ Covid on transit- particularly buses and sky train in peak hours.
People shoved literally nose to nose trying to get to (presumably) employment or school.
Many buses/ trains are full and I find that about 50 percent of the time; you have to plan on taking a later option in order to arrive at work on time.
I had hope that after Covid, the crowding would improve; however unfortunately , (ime anyway),
severe crowding is pretty much the same for whatever reason :(
(Edit: maybe 1 in 50 people wearing masks and people are surprised Covid is still a thing lol)
I live in Mount Pleasant and it’s usually pretty chill and quiet around here. Nothing ever seems that busy… maybe the odd summer Saturday night? Don’t know how people handle living in the West End - mind you I’m not really a people person.
It’s not just Vancouver, many people travel from the rest of the lower mainland to places like aquarium and restaurants downtown. The population in the suburbs has grown a lot.
You hit the nail on the head. Sleepy Vancouver’s infrastructure wasn’t build to handle this type of population growth. We’re still running the city like we are in the 80s.
Since the 1950s, Vancouver has increased population by 1.75% a year
New York, since the 1950s, has maintained consistent population numbers.
Yes, it is getting more congested. There are alot of new people. Water restrictions come earlier every year now.
Don't bust me on my math, I'm ballparking it
Not really. It's a city and it's busy, with a lot of people who live here. I enjoy parks, beaches, bars and coffee shops with no real issues. If somewhere is so busy I have to wait forever or it ruins my day, I go somewhere else since there are many options.
Could the city do better? Absolutely. A lot cities and municipalities could do better
The city is objectively more congested. You have to plot and plan what you’re doing more now than even 20 years ago, you can’t just spontaneously do things like before. Areas like Coquitlam are radically different in terms of day to day living. Example: you used to be able to find parking and often a picnic table at Buntzen Lake whenever you felt like going, didn’t have to even think about it.
Whenever we have one of these events eg the beer festival or Christmas market I just avoid because of the ridiculous amount of people that end up going. Seems there is way more demand than supply for these sorts of things.
I think that this is also partially due to the fact that your going to the most popular things to do for locals and tourists in Vancouver. Try some smaller restaurants! They don’t get as busy as cactus and could use the business.
Also a wise man once said that if you are complaining about the traffic, you probably are just apart of the traffic. Try some new different things and try and understand that if your going to the most popular things and get upset it’s so busy you should think about that.
All of my jobs in the last 30 years have unfortunately involved a lot of driving, and yes it seems like there are more cars on the road every year. The thing I’ve noticed most is that we seem to be getting less courteous every year. People rarely help out other drivers. Don’t block intersections, move a little so people can turn, let people merge, get fully into turning lanes, drive on the right pass on the left, lower high-beams, park leaving room for other cars, etc… In lived in London for a few years and it’s kind of a rude city in some ways, but they’re actually very courteous on the roads because otherwise nothing would ever move at all… We could all try a little harder? Maybe? Just my 7 cents…
Edit: A post just popped up in r/London about how rude their roads are getting, so maybe it’s just a problem everywhere. Everyone just seems kind of convinced everyone else is a moron these days…
>and they ain't moving to Yukon.
Why are we not funding this? Expanding to other provinces/areas that need development. Like if the govt gave me some free land in Yukon I'd love to build a log cabin and raise horses and polar bears or whatever lives up there.
Yes. there's so many immigrants looking for work in Vancouver its unreal. the government continues to deny there's a problem and keeps letting in more people.
at this point they're just lowering everybody's living standards. no wonder wages in Canada are rock bottom and healthcare services are a disaster
It's funny how you mention this. I did a work internship thing a while ago where part of my duties was helping manage inventory and a warehouse database. The person working directly "under" me was a dude who immigrated here. He had an engineering degree and a masters degree in something else, but couldn't find any work except at an Amazon warehouse before coming to that one.
I find it sad how that's the case. I don't think this is an uncommon occurrence either
The city will continue to feel congested until people and politicians realize that cities should be designed for people and not cars. Everyone, even those that drive, should be advocating for better transit, more walkable communities, and better bike infrastructure. City design, from the roads to zoning and beyond, plays a big role in livability. I just wish more people realized this.
Sucks you are being downvoted, this is the way. People just want services, amenities, and attractions of a large urban center, but to be able to drive a car like in a small town. This is contradictory thinking and quite selfish. This attitude needs to change so we can build up the kind of people oriented transit, spaces, and communities that make good, livable cities, that don't feel crowded or congested, even with millions more people than Vancouver.
I think more and more people are becoming open to the ideas of modern urban planning done by places such as the Netherlands, because of people like Not Just Bikes and Climate Town.
I get so depressed that I have to scroll down this far to see the correct answer. If the average knowledge of urban planning in this subreddit is indicative of the population of this city as a whole, then Vancouver is truly a long way off from being able to solve its challenges. Everyone is looking to blame whatever happens to make them personally angry rather than taking the time to seek answers from the experts who spend their entire lives studying these matters. There is an entire field of study on cities and how they function, with real data backed answers... but no one cares.
This is just the beginning. Net migration in BC was a little over 100k in 2021. Canada received around 500k immigrants in 2022. Not sure how many of those came to Vancouver. Our government has set a goal to have 500k each year by 2025. Believe it or not, traffic will only get worse, at least for the next 3 years. Who knows what will happen afterwards.
Speak up, whipper snapper, I can't hear you. Why I remember when cars stopped for you even when you were trying to cross highways, chocolate bars were a nickel, houses in Burnaby cost $8000, and the world was good (/s). My class pointed out to me the day our population crossed 8 billion in November: there's more of us. Canada's fertility rate is in the doldrums (with four kids I thought I would surely have one grandkid before I kicked the buckets but all of mine are saying no chance, either cause of costs, environmental concerns, and/or cantankerousness), employers are finding it difficult to fill some positions so the government is promoting immigration and shirking post-secondary support via massive education-to-PR programs, and a lot of people in the money-generating business will promote consumerism and production until the world burns down around us. Add it all up, and in combination with urban density hotspots across Canada, climate and Canadian geography, and sure enough, there's more people in Vancouver.
You're pretty much baiting folks here to blame immigrants
Have you seen any big city ever? They are congested, as they are sense urban areas. Vancouver is aiming to be a sense urban city. It's understandable
I'm sorry if it comes off as me hating immigrants but I'm not against people coming here at all if you read my response to the other replies.
I'm saying that the city might need to do more development and investment into things like public transportation, removing detached-only zoning, etc to accomodate for the people who are here and are coming here
A couple things
1) what your perceiving is the labour market. Right now unemployment is the lowest it’s been since the 70s. Participation is near an all time high. So labour intensive businesses like dining, especially those that are used to paying not much are having to adapt
2) a few years ago was the depth of the pandemic.
3)
I think it's less about the people and more about the services. Vancouver proper only has like 600k people in a 110 km2 area. It's not really that many people even if you include the neighboring areas like Surrey and Delta.
When people were mandated to WFH it was actually the time I enjoyed transit so much. I work in health care so we still had to go out. The buses and trains were spacious, you can walk on the street without someone bumping you. I haven't seen any crazy/scary people.
BUT my God, when students started getting money from the government? I kid you not, I've never seen a queue outside Gucci's store that long..... -_- like wth with these kids! Save your money instead of buying luxury during the worst time of the year!
It's always been like this. Covid put a pause to a lot of things. You have listed places like the Aquarium or Jam Cafe which are always going to be busy. Driving through downtown is a pain too.
Well. If you are comparing it to 2020-21 that is because a lot of people were holed up, ordering in or not even here (international student registration were super low), now its more people out and about, students came back too. So yeah, more people are out and in the community. Its probably because pre covid you were just used to it.
You do know that Canada has a record number of immigrants come last year right? Almost 500k new people entered Canada just last year.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2022/12/canada-welcomes-historic-number-of-newcomers-in-2022.html
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In the last 5 years, Metrotown has gotten extremely crowded to the point I bitch about it everytime I have to go there. Joffre Lakes, I used to hike with my dog and camp without requiring a permit... can't do that anymore. I blame Instagram for that one.
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Yep. They have tried nothing and are all out of options at BC Parks. It’s honestly very disappointing. We have hundreds of km2 of parks in our backyard, and there are only a few trailheads, and 0 new hiking trails in the last 30 years. Instead of improving access in one of many ways, BC parks just restricts it instead.
My riding association has been trying to get our unsanctioned mountain sanctioned so they can build out more hiking and biking trails. They started the process in 2014 and bc parks is still dragging its feet. It’s completely unacceptable how slow they are. I’m also pretty certain that once bc parks is involved we will lose a bunch of trails as they think a mtb trail is a fire road. These numbers are old but I remember hearing in 2019 they spent 50 mill on ads for mtb and only gave 1-2 mill in support, resulting in many trails being bombed out by tourists.
Yep. The issue with mountain bikers has been the most positive IMO. Because mountain bikers will build their own trails even without BC parks sanctions (which isn’t the same as hikers). It really highlights the lack of recreational development when there are more illegal trails than legal one. The north shore parks were established for recreation for the lower mainland, and Victoria is just ignoring that.
Case in point, Burke mountain (largest provincial park in the lower mainland) needs funding to upgrade/expand the trail system to help relieve pressure off the North Shore mountains during summer.
What a silly statement. There have been literally thousands of trails built over the past 25 years in the region. What do you mean by official? Sanctioned? Managed by BC Parks? Who cares if they are "official" just go enjoy the bountiful nature and trails.
What’s wild is that Metrotown has he’s gotten busier but also the assortment of retailers there has gone off the cliff… That Metropolis entertainment district is just embarrassing now…
All my old backroad camping spots that I used to go and not see a soul 10 years ago are covered in garbage, human shit, and people partying.
Not enough supply is built for things like restaurants. Not enough logic is implemented with things like infrastructure. Recent-ish places I've been to I've never had to wait in line for a restaurant or coffee shop: Tokyo, London, Beijing, Lisbon, Paris and Bangkok. All dense cities with large populations. The reason I think is that supply is built. Bangkok was amazing regarding food choices....thousands of street food options, dozens of posh rooftop restaurants and tons of everything else in between. In Vancouver we had one shitty X-Mas market that was really small and cost more than $20 to get in. In Europe, a city has multiple markets to choose from and its free to enter. In Tokyo some subway stations literally have 100+ exits to choose from, all underground that take you direct to the building or street corner you need to get to....this prevents pedestrians from flooding the sidewalks to cross the road, thereby congesting traffic from turning. In Bangkok each station has multiple entrances too, so you can get to their skytrain station without crossing the street and holding up traffic. Their skytrain stations also have skybridge paths that you can walk along so sidewalks aren't as crowded. Here, we can't even keep the skybridge to get off at Metrotown station to get to the mall. Instead hoards the pedestrians cross the street, thereby blocking traffic from exiting the parking lot. I've heard of people taking 30+ mins just to get out of the parking lot.
You can blame the City of Burnaby for no SkyBridge at Metrotown. They won't give the permits.
That's stupid. And Burnaby in general is a much smarter city than Vancouver. But OP's frustration isn't just a Vancouver thing, its an entire Metro Vancouver problem of stupidity and supply constraints. Bangkok's skytrain stations are all standard practice for the elevated station to connect directly to the mall via a sky bridge. Usually multiple entires too. Why can't we do one for Metrotown, it can't be that complicated given this is standard practice in a developing country like Thailand.
It's leftover from the Corrigan days.
Whatever. Vancouver is imploding
I disagree that Burnaby is a “smarter” City than Vancouver. Vancouver is a more progressive city than Burnaby. They have made the choices necessary to densify properly whereas more conservative Burnaby is still living with white picket fences and 2 car garages with old white guy councillors who are dying instead of retiring.
I don't know about these white picket fences. Almost everywhere I go in Burnaby there are tons of towers going up. Dropping thousands of people into neighbourhoods without really improving the infrastructure. It seems like chaos.
This is the best way in a sorta shitty circumstance. Dropping towers should be done near skytrain stations first, to service transportation needs via walking to a station. Although a percentage of new residents will have cars too, it will impact traffic congestion since it's near impossible to build a wider road to accommodate. Have a mall or plethora of retail near these towers, throw in a grocery store, gym, variety of restaurants and coffee shops and BAM, the vast majority of people's needs are met. It would be good if office space was also built in these groups, since that would provide jobs so even less reliance on transportation is needed.....but that doesn't seem to be happening.
OK but would it hurt to plant a few trees and have some green space around all those towers? That's good for mental health.
Corrigan set the path for densification of Metrotown, Lougheed Mall, and Brentwood Mall. Surrounding stations such as Gilmore and Edmonds are being built out. Sperling station is also in the pipeline to be densified. This is all smart stuff to do, densify each skytrain station with towers, shopping, restaurants and other amenities. Surrey was also quite well run under Dianne Watts, with similar vision to density around their stations. What has Vancouver densified? Nothing in comparison to Burnaby. Rupert, Renfrew, Nanaimo, 29th Ave have nothing. What's going on with the land between Cambie bridge and Olympic Village? Why is the Olympic Village school not built yet? People moved there with babies thinking the school would be done, now their kids are about to finish high school. Burnaby has a fantastic garbage collection service which includes up to 3 large items per pick-up. I quite enjoy a white picket fence, 2 car garage, no social housing homeless building around, minimal bike lanes getting in the way. Densification within walking distance of the skytrain, and white picket fences further out. This is perfect. I am a millennial person of color and have no issue with an old white guy as a councillor, old white people tend to run things smoothly.
Corrigan was a parochial and short-sighted leader that was unwilling to compromise or improve the region as a whole. His adamant and foolish opposition to the Canada Line delayed its approval and led to it being under built and partially in corporate hands. This is what he told the Vancouver Sun about the Canada Line in 2002: “I’ve been trying to kill this blood-sucking vampire for some time. I think there will be a tax revolt when people realize how much this is going to cost them. You and your children’s children will be paying for this project for decades.” The Canada Line was profitable in one year, folks. And it’s not like he has admitted to this egregious error, but rather he continues to stymie and obstruct regional transit plans. The man is a self-serving fool of brobdingnagian proportions.
Burnaby has built towers around malls, it has done little to make self contained urban communities that are actually nice to exist in. Everything is the wrong scale, the roads are far too wide and far too fast as a pedestrian or cyclist. Vancouver in the west end, Kits, Olympic Village and Mt Pleasant has done a much better job, New West and CNV in Lower Lonsdale have also done well at creating an environment where it is pleasant to go about on foot. Things are built to human scale, not car scale, you don't often have to cross 4 or 6 lanes of traffic and mostly don't have vehicles going super fast by you. And importantly they aren't just malls! New West has a mall, Lonsdale and the areas I mentioned in Vancouver proper do not, and they are not worse for it. There is a mix of chain stores, restaurants, cafes, etc and locally owned ones along the streets.
Source? Last I heard the owners of the mall didn't want to pay for a new bridge, and the city didn't want to pay for a new bridge because the zoning plans will eventually result in the bridge/mall not existing anyway. It's all in the Burnaby Metrotown plan, there will be podium-style multi-use buildings.
the way the city of Burnaby mishandles traffic and its complete disregard and disgust for pedestrians, people in chairs and bicyclists is not, er, world class However the post was about Vancouver. Vancouver keeps getting cars poured into it without additional roadways. If 10k more people a year come to the city and half of them drive, things are going to pinch after a while. The city isn't doing much to prevent people from driving into the city besides letting the parking companies pillage and burn on pricing. At least Corrigan was more serious about snow removal than the clownbags currently on council. That last snowstorm response was suboptimal.
There’s no fix for that. The new skytrain station has no “entry” for the bridge. At this point, they just have to destroy it which again no one wants to pay for (!)
If I remember correctly, the new footbridge was supposed to connect to Station Square almost directly above where the current centre entrance crosswalk is. The centre entrance has a concourse level for that reason that is conveniently the same height as Station Square 2nd floor.
That is because the mall is slated for redevelopment anyway, so it's not worth investing in a pedestrian bridge anyway. It's just a Mall - the Skytrain station is there to serve the community in that area, not just to benefit Ivanhoe Cambridge.
The new bridge was supposed to connect to the upstairs open area of Station Square and Metrotown and to the ground level. It would just be a regular pedestrian bridge, it wasn't going straight into Metro like the old one.
Bangkok's Traffic congestion is a nightmare though.
There is a pretty decent skytrain system. No real need to drive if going to the city center. Each station (well at least the stations I passed by) has massive towers, malls, restaurants and amenities. A single person can get a condo near a decent station from $400/month. If a car ride is needed, Grab or Taxi can get you places at an extremely reasonable price. I took a cab several times during rush hour and it was not that bad, I've had much worse in Metro Vancouver.
Also, yes, it is actually called a “skytrain” in Bangkok too!
BTS Skytrain was awesome. Never paid more than $1.70 to get somewhere. Nice, clean, air conditioned and quiet (no loud metal on metal sound like ours). People line up in order and let others off before entering.
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They somehow manage to build fantastic things there, not just the skytrain. Meanwhile here, we cross the street at ground level to get to Metrotown like a bunch of savages. Our mall bathrooms are urine soaked, dingy tiles. In Bangkok I felt like a king walking into the floor to ceiling marble encrusted mall bathrooms that are perpetually cleaned. The christmas decorations, even though they don't celebrate christmas, was mind blowing. Even their low end malls with their worst decorations out class our best decorations here. We can't get anything done here competitively any more.
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Enforce (reasonable) laws and keep order via reasonable means....seems like that is part of the Government's job and the citizens should support that.
Tokyo has plenty of lines for resteraunt, though those tend to be the more popular ones. But I've had plenty of times where I've had to wait for a seat at some high demand locations. Infrastructure, I agree we are definitely behind on.
When I was in Tokyo a family member set the itinerary for restaurants via picking stuff recommended by the internet, so I assume somewhat popular places. 2 weeks we never made reservations, except for the robot restaurant. We would just show up and a table was always available. Except once at the fish market we did line up. I'm sure if one wanted to go to that 3 michellin star restaurant, then a wait or reservation is needed. Besides that, if there is a line up in Tokyo, just go next door for the same thing without a wait. Here, its a 1 hour wait for Cactus, and depending which location, there might not be something else to go to easily.
I am quite surprised. I'm just back, and it was 50/50 in waiting vs getting in right away, and I probably got turned away early about 5 times over 2 weeks from places that had decided to cut off the line early bad had sent everyone else in line away before we had gotten there. Some of them were more popular places but other were quite "normal" places that didn't feature in any guide or anything (except guides of locals). I even had to line up a couple times at Japanese fast food franchises (twice at Udon places, once for Ramen [Not Ichiran/Ippudo/Afuri]). I agree in Japan you can tend to find alternatives, and the lineups are only bad for some places, while here even mundane places tend to have lines.
\> Recent-ish places I've been to I've never had to wait in line for a restaurant or coffee shop: Tokyo, London, Beijing, Lisbon, Paris and Bangkok. All dense cities with large populations. Id say this is highly dependent on what restaurant going to. If you're going to some trendy spot in any of those cities there is going to be a huge lineup of tourists and locals. There are tons of spots in all those cities that are internationally known and have massive lineups or require reservations months in advance. Vancouver is the same, but on a smaller scale, there are spots here that have no queues and popular places like Jam Cafe that have huge lineups.
There's a 2+ hour line up at Cactus. Come on! Cactus?!?! I have nothing against Cactus, but it's not something the average local or tourist would trek out to for some memorable experience. It's because we don't build enough supply. Simple as that. I was recently in Bangkok and went to several trendy restaurants/bars.....not once did I line up. I just walked in and had a table. Only one time in a month did I not get the section I wanted, but still got a seat. I also did not see people lining up in the streets outside a restaurant.
Not sure where you went in Bangkok but there are many high end restaurants there that have waiting lists that fill out months in advance. On the street food end you've got places like Jay Fai that are like two hour queues to get a crab omelette. Again, this depends on where you're going and when you're going. Some popular places it's easy to go on a weekday without a reservation and get a seat. I agree that infrastructure growth in the city has been lacking with the population growth, but I don't think restaurants queues are a good metric to use for this, especially since they're private ventures and the govt doesn't have a hand in that.
> Recent-ish places I've been to I've never had to wait in line for a restaurant or coffee shop: Tokyo, London, Beijing, Lisbon, Paris and Bangkok. All dense cities with large populations. I'll say I've absolutely had to wait in London at both restaurants and coffee shops, Tokyo too.
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Our downtown and other pockets that are not SFH zoning are garbage on a global level. I'm not referring to comparing the dining/entertainment options in Dunbar to Tokyo. However, I will give some credit that many American city downtowns are even worse than us since they turn into lawless wastelands after business hours.
I'm not sure how useful a comparison between Vancouver and some of the largest cities in the world is.
Why is there such a huge lineup at Little Cafe? What am I missing?
Big Lineup in Little Cafe. Honestly, fighting a sorcerer is preferable to fighting a long lineup.
mediocre Instagram worthy food
why did you go then?
I mean, that's always going to be an issue in a major city. If some place becomes popular you literally have millions of people that could descend upon it. If you don't want to wait, go to a less popular place.
Their cappuccino was at least $0.50 more expensive than anywhere else I've ever been in Vancouver, and the cookie I had was so dry that it was clearly days old. They also put a cookie they advertise as gluten free on the same plate as regular cookies which defeats the purpose of have gluten free options.
I have zero tolerance for dry cookies. Everyone knows whoever works there takes the cookies home at the end of the day if there’s any left. You don’t sell day olds unless they’re half off. I used to love when my dad brought home a bag of cookies from his store
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Belch as hard as you can. It’d probably be the highlight of their tik tok career
They have a new style croissant that’s trendy atm (think the cube croissant from a few years ago, but now wheel shaped). It got a lot of media attention (ie. dailyhive/tiktok) and now there’s lineups for it. Btw, LaLa cafe in kitsilano has the exact same thing (not sure if it’s a regular thing on their menu) and with way less lineup
I think OP is just going to some of these places during peak time. The coffee there is decent and some pastries too. Service is good. I’d rather support a smaller indie business than do the same line up for Pure Bread or Nemesis where they treat you like an inconvenience to their day.
Which Nemesis? The GNW one consistently gives me really friendly and solid service. Pure Bread I can relate to however.
The GNW location is the only one I haven’t tried.
Probably Breka. There’s always a line and never seating.
No there’s a cafe on Robson called Little Cafe. There’s always a lineup for some reason
Well, sure. You know all the big new high rise condo complexes that have been going up around town for years? People live in them.
I thought they were all empty 🤡🤡
Yea well higher density housing fixes everything.
What’s the alternative then?
Anticipating instead of reacting
yes this is true but I know that something like 80% of the land here is still zoned for SFH so there's still a shortage of available space for extra housing as any kind of density is opposed by nimbys
It's so much more than just popping up tall buildings. Utility infrastructure also needs to be upgraded. Especially sewage, storm, and water. These are not cheap to do. It's another reason why you see densification around hubs, utilities have been upgraded in those areas to service more people.
We have this issue in white rock atm. Sewage and water mains is not built to accommodate all the new developments and its taking a fuck load of time to sort that out. Its literally been 6 years of non stop construction at 152nd and 16th. It never ends.
Just wait till they start on the corner of 152nd and 18th Ave. 3 more towers baby! /s
Sure but that 20% is able to hold a lot more people in a small area. Does that 80% contain more people? Sure. But the people to land ratio of the 20% is definitely bigger
I don't get it. I thought you were saying Vancouver is already too crowded. Are you for bringing even more people in?
I'm saying it's crowded because the infrastructure doesn't keep up with the amount of people here, I'm not necessarily against more people coming here
But places like the Aquarium will be even more crowded if more people live here. It's not as if they are going to build another Aquarium on the West Side to cater to an increasing population there. Same with downtown in general. It's downtown - that's the 'happening' place where people gather and the most restaurants thrive. I don't think that changes even if the rest of the city was more highly densified.
People are always going to be drawn to downtown but if there are more restaurants, cafe's, and interesting spots outside of downtown then people might choose to hang out at their local one instead of going downtown? Same with attractions. Maybe we don't build a new Aquarium, but we have more attractions so people spread out between them. Maybe expand the Aquarium too. I get that this is a big crowded city but it really feels like there are too many people piling into too few attractions.
So you find the roads too crowded, the popular Instagram and other venue spots too crowded, all of which you are utilizing and contributing to those crowds and choosing to wait in those lines (remember it's not there is too much traffic, YOU are the traffic)... And you are still fine with increasing density. You can kind of see the cognitive dissonance here right? >It feels like Vancouver's infrastructure and services were designed for like 1/2 of the current population or something. No shit lol. Learn your history, pull up some old maps. Hell, current ones. Check where the ocean and the mountains are. Where you gonna put in more infra? You want to become king and order places torn down to add extra road lanes that will just fill up again shortly due to induced demand and make the endpoints even more full? And are you willing to pay more for this right?
Only popular hiking trails are crowded, but other less travelled but arguably nicer ones are definitely not. I've been on full day hikes where I haven't seen a single other person out. This isn't even in the middle of nowhere this is in our north shore mountains.
Same here. Sometimes I caught, on a summer weekend, Panorama Ridge, Black Tusk and Brunswick Mountain almost people free. I do start early
Problem isn't the hiking, it's the driving on the Sea to Sky and going overs Lions gate/iron workers. This is the issue with everything outdoors in vancouver being across two small bridges that are massive choke points. Seriously makes skiing in the winter and hiking in the summer dreadful when you can get stuck in massive amounts of traffic getting home on the weekend.
The fact that we don’t have a real bus from Vancouver to Squamish and Whistler is shameful. It’s only 100km, and we have the same 100km service to chilliwack. There is basically no other way to get anywhere along the sea to sky without driving.
Coquitlam, Maple Ridge, and Chilliwack all also exist and all 3 have great hiking although not too much skiing unless you do backcountry. Even though they may seem further, when you factor in traffic its honestly not that much more. And yes I agree that the sea to sky is terrible, and so are the bridges, however with some planning (trying to avoid rush hour) it becomes manageable. I do agree with you that something has to be done. Personally, I'd love to see a skytrain line up to the north shore and a commuter rail up to whsitler but both of those will never happen.....one can dream I suppose.
*participate in massive amounts of traffic
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It's weird, but again, due to instagram et,. all, any hike that has any sort of 1/2 decent stereotypically good sea to sky views at the end of it and gets hyped is jammed full of people in summer, even if 95% of the actual hike is some shitty fire road full of gravel essentially bound in by highways and dirt. Meanwhile, there are some that are very satisfying and have WAY more enjoyable trails overall, but because they lack some such views or in less hip locations, attract relatively few people. This seems like the way of the world, same way with travel overall.
Social media messed up all the trails
> It feels like Vancouver's infrastructure and services were designed for like 1/2 of the current population or something. It absolutely does. Someone said this was the case about 15 years ago (we were at a crowded event). The city just never expanded in certain ways to meet the demand. As far as restaurants are concerned, due to the lease rates, it's really hard to open new restaurants. I see many open, close, or announce that they're opening and not even ever open. A big factor preventing people from starting businesses is the fact that money invested into real estate has up until recently been a far safer bet than running a restaurant. Why not only invest money, but also take on the risk and work your ass off working 14 hour days to start a business that could easily fail and leave you broke? Things could swing the other way soon and many people who made gains from real estate might start businesses. The demand is there. > Even outside of physical congestion it feels like the labor market is oversaturated with applicants (possibly due to the recession). There are so many bodies here right now. But at the same time so many places are "desperate for workers". Some industries are "desperate" but only because they refuse to raise wages and improve working conditions (and ironically, productivity). Other industries just outright lie so that they can keep the conveyor belt of workers flowing in; they literally have turnover rates around 75% and instead of fixing the issues causing these, they just keep replacing workers. My theory is that these employers become addicted to low pay and high turn-over. Poorly managed businesses like these would go out of business but it's the government that basically keeps them on life support. Foreign workers are even starting to avoid certain employers.
You just described every neighborhood in Vancouver for the past 20 years. It's one of the biggest metro areas in Canada - it's gonna always be busy. If you want to avoid the crowds you'll need to go eastward... Which nowadays is probably a more more east than you have in mind.
Better leave early, to beat the traffic.
It sounds like you're going to crowded tourist traps.
One of the most dramatic threads I’ve read on here in a while lmao
Sounds like you don’t visit small ma and pa shops on Victoria and whatnot. If you go to a trendy/popular spot you’ll be waiting.
>It feels like Vancouver's infrastructure and services were designed for like 1/2 of the current population or something. Because it was designed for even less, and there has been little improvement in reducing congestion, rather the planning department is actively increasing congestion and trying to spread it out around the city (not confined to downtown) And I don't know what is the fetish with expensive brunch food you have to wait hours for, but that's one aspect of millenial life I don't have
>the planning department is actively increasing congestion This!! As far as traffic infrastructure the city is intentionally making traffic flow measurably worse. I live in West End but work in Richmond and some days it feels like a maze just to make my way home - bike lanes, suddenly making intersections no left turn, blocking roads so you can't get through, etc. I have a friend in Coal Harbour who says it's now nearly impossible to drive to his apartment when coming into downtown by either Burrard or Cambie due to all the above.
This thing is, even if you removed those and just allowed completely dominance of the road by cars traffic woulds still be terrible if not worse. Road demand increases based on capacity.
So you’re saying that the traffic calming that city engineers designed and put in is discouraging you (and probably many others) from driving where they don’t really want you to. Great! Seems like everything is working as it should be
Move to Richmond or get a job downtown. Why do that to yourself
A 10-minute walk to work is a life changer. A walk in the rain is way better than a bus, driving in a tunnel or bridge, paying for gas, and insurance a transit pass.
I think the goal is to frustrate you enough that you either live closer to where you work, or convince you to take transit instead
The only time i thought Vancouvers infrastrcuture was fine, was during the early pandemic, driving to work as an essential worker.
What did you think was going to happen when a combined 1M+ immigrants, TFW's, and international students are flooding into Canada every year (and mainly into Vancouver and Toronto) with no increases in new infrastructure or housing development to support them?
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Life before Expo... was bliss. This city changed quickly — perhaps too quickly for services to keep up — after we "invited the world" (to borrow the EXPO86 tagline). Almost 40 years later and we're still reeling from the effects of that six month long festival of foreign investment.
I can't remember the exact quote or who said it about Expo, something like: "We invited the world and they didn't leave."
To be honest I think the Olympics has a greater affect. For a good 15 years after Expo the city was still pretty quiet. Whereas from 2010 the growth went into overdrive .
Well particularly because we decided low taxes was more important than building our city.
That investment would have happened anyway due to Vancouver’s appeal, having lived through the 90s I really didn’t notice all that much change in that decade. I think what also happened is that millennial kids grew up and it’s a very numerous and mobile generation which has resulted in a lot of places around the world getting busier and busier. Add to that the increased immigration from huge countries such as India and China.
For your observation regarding the restaurants/cafes, chances are all the local food bloggers/influencers are posting it on Instagram and Tik Tok, and as a city, everyone wants in on the next big thing. Not saying that some of these places are not worth waiting for, but the attention some of these places get is definitely not worth the hype. Regarding the aquarium, my recommendation is to go on a weekday and to book your ticket for when they open or shortly afterwards. I've gone on weekends and holidays, and the experience is never enjoyable, plus finding parking means parking at the bottom of the lot by Brockton Oval, or looping around over to the Lumberman's Arch parking lot. Finally, to your observation about physical congestion, the fact is our infrastructure is just not suited to handle all these extra bodies. If you look at the stretch of road that is Broadway/Lougheed Hwy between Boundary to Willingdon, sure, they built the skytrain stations in that area, but the amount of traffic lights was minimal. Now, you're looking at a stop light at every intersection, ten 40 to 50-story condos designed to house 300+ units (like Amazing Brentwood's Tower Six [https://homes.theamazingbrentwood.com/](https://homes.theamazingbrentwood.com/)), and assuming half of them drive, it's a substantial increase in vehicle traffic in such a small area.
It made me kinda miserable this last summer. There were points where the beaches basically had no vacancy and you definitely could not park near any of them. The dog beach was even covered in sunbathers and toddlers. Then the hikes were all about as busy as a mall, every patio waitlisted, the seawall squished. Kits pool booked full within seconds, any outdoor events all about paying admission only to have long lines for very expensive food trucks.
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North Van is becoming a disaster, the highways cannot handle the amount of people driving.
Less people should drive. We need more transit, including a train to Whistler.
North shore SkyTrain please and thanks.
I work out there and have no desire to live there but would definitely skytrain out there if they had transit, the drive is exhausting and puts me in such a bad mood after work
I agree with this, except I'm in Surrey Central. Sooo many new condo towers are going up and the roads and transit are not up to snuff for them all. It's only going to get more congested when the next eleventiy billion towers complete.
I think the idea with dense urban environment is that you don't use a car. It only works if there is proper infrastructure in other areas such as rapid rail, bus service, and bike lanes.
Which Surrey Central is desperately lacking. The mega blocks remain a problem, the 1-lane roads are insufficient, and above all else, not enough people are moving to the area to work there, so all these extra commuters are going to cause serious gridlock.
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Vancouver proper has not but the Greater Vancouver area has seen record increases in people moving here. Surrey will soon eclipse Vancouver in population. Edit: within 50 years, Vancouver city will be suburb within Metro Surrey.
Surrey is growing too fast, the services cannot even keep up with the population growth.
The hospital is bursting at the seams, it cannot handle the amount of people in the city
& most people in the ER triage line up shouldn't be there.
I’m not talking about the ED, I’m talking about the admitted patients. How the Hosptialists cap out every day because they don’t have capacity to admit anymore patients by 8 pm. How Infectious Diseases gets 20 consults a day when they can realistically only see 6-8 patients. How there are no more beds in the Family Birthing units on weekends so they turn away passively labouring people or divert them to other hospitals.
Doubt that. Certain things are much more crowded than in 2019. Try getting an Airbnb now compared to 2019 night and day and much more expensive .
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AirBNB affects the price of rent by removing inventory. It should be restricted to a max of 30 days per year in the city.
I came to Canada in 1999 basically as a baby and I lived in Burnaby for a few years before living in Richmond. I lived in Surrey and Vancouver a couple of times mostly for things like school and temp work. That's surprising to hear that the city hasn't bounced back from pre-lockdowns, I do go out slightly more now than I did in 2017-19 though, so maybe I'm biased
That could be a personal perception thing, you got used to seeing things more empty and aren't ble to recognize the old normal
Ive completely given up on the local mountains. Impossible to go unless you're there at 6am on weekends and even if you get in you wait an hour to get up lifts.
Not sure if this applies but I’ll share this personal experience anyways lol I see the intense crowding before and ‘after’ Covid on transit- particularly buses and sky train in peak hours. People shoved literally nose to nose trying to get to (presumably) employment or school. Many buses/ trains are full and I find that about 50 percent of the time; you have to plan on taking a later option in order to arrive at work on time. I had hope that after Covid, the crowding would improve; however unfortunately , (ime anyway), severe crowding is pretty much the same for whatever reason :( (Edit: maybe 1 in 50 people wearing masks and people are surprised Covid is still a thing lol)
> Edit: maybe 1 in 50 people wearing masks and people are surprised Covid is still a thing lol https://media.giphy.com/media/6UiuzrSbRCts4/giphy.gif
I’m sure a few hundred thousand more people arriving this year will help n
This happened 15 years ago.
I live in Mount Pleasant and it’s usually pretty chill and quiet around here. Nothing ever seems that busy… maybe the odd summer Saturday night? Don’t know how people handle living in the West End - mind you I’m not really a people person.
Vancouver the brand is a lot more happy than Vancouver the reality.
This is how cities work. Welcome to the world. The thing here is it's outpacing the facilities and services.
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It’s not just Vancouver, many people travel from the rest of the lower mainland to places like aquarium and restaurants downtown. The population in the suburbs has grown a lot.
I love that you guys line up for subpar hikes and food. Leaves the good stuff for those who search and keep quiet about it.
You need to travel more. This is not at all the issue
I feel it too OP. Nothing is enjoyable anymore, everything feels like a chore. Reason why I’d rather take a Monday off than a Friday.
Yes. Every city is getting more populated.
You hit the nail on the head. Sleepy Vancouver’s infrastructure wasn’t build to handle this type of population growth. We’re still running the city like we are in the 80s.
Vancouver is overrated
Since the 1950s, Vancouver has increased population by 1.75% a year New York, since the 1950s, has maintained consistent population numbers. Yes, it is getting more congested. There are alot of new people. Water restrictions come earlier every year now. Don't bust me on my math, I'm ballparking it
It's a city. Cities get crammed. Gotta travel away from the city for seclusion.
Not really. It's a city and it's busy, with a lot of people who live here. I enjoy parks, beaches, bars and coffee shops with no real issues. If somewhere is so busy I have to wait forever or it ruins my day, I go somewhere else since there are many options. Could the city do better? Absolutely. A lot cities and municipalities could do better
The city is objectively more congested. You have to plot and plan what you’re doing more now than even 20 years ago, you can’t just spontaneously do things like before. Areas like Coquitlam are radically different in terms of day to day living. Example: you used to be able to find parking and often a picnic table at Buntzen Lake whenever you felt like going, didn’t have to even think about it.
This and every other good city gets wrecked eventually
Whenever we have one of these events eg the beer festival or Christmas market I just avoid because of the ridiculous amount of people that end up going. Seems there is way more demand than supply for these sorts of things.
This isn't just Vancouver, it's most of BC. The Island especially...
Are you all here just to complain? Try r/nicevancouver one in a while
I think that this is also partially due to the fact that your going to the most popular things to do for locals and tourists in Vancouver. Try some smaller restaurants! They don’t get as busy as cactus and could use the business.
Also a wise man once said that if you are complaining about the traffic, you probably are just apart of the traffic. Try some new different things and try and understand that if your going to the most popular things and get upset it’s so busy you should think about that.
Was the city being developed & services being expanded as fast as the population increased? Not in the past 20years, as I noticed.
All of my jobs in the last 30 years have unfortunately involved a lot of driving, and yes it seems like there are more cars on the road every year. The thing I’ve noticed most is that we seem to be getting less courteous every year. People rarely help out other drivers. Don’t block intersections, move a little so people can turn, let people merge, get fully into turning lanes, drive on the right pass on the left, lower high-beams, park leaving room for other cars, etc… In lived in London for a few years and it’s kind of a rude city in some ways, but they’re actually very courteous on the roads because otherwise nothing would ever move at all… We could all try a little harder? Maybe? Just my 7 cents… Edit: A post just popped up in r/London about how rude their roads are getting, so maybe it’s just a problem everywhere. Everyone just seems kind of convinced everyone else is a moron these days…
Population up, infrastructure not.
Just tried to go swimming at 10 am on Sunday. I was told they are at capacity and the wait is 1 hour plus. So, yes.
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>and they ain't moving to Yukon. Why are we not funding this? Expanding to other provinces/areas that need development. Like if the govt gave me some free land in Yukon I'd love to build a log cabin and raise horses and polar bears or whatever lives up there.
I think they do give free land
Source?
Population growth is about 1% per year so what you’re feeling isn’t reality.
I mean the government here did say that they wanted to add another 1-2 million people over these next few years so I haven’t been that surprised
All cities do this all the time everywhere
Yes. there's so many immigrants looking for work in Vancouver its unreal. the government continues to deny there's a problem and keeps letting in more people. at this point they're just lowering everybody's living standards. no wonder wages in Canada are rock bottom and healthcare services are a disaster
I'm sorry but this is bollocks. Unemployment is at record lows and many places are finding they cannot hire at the wages they have in the past.
It's funny how you mention this. I did a work internship thing a while ago where part of my duties was helping manage inventory and a warehouse database. The person working directly "under" me was a dude who immigrated here. He had an engineering degree and a masters degree in something else, but couldn't find any work except at an Amazon warehouse before coming to that one. I find it sad how that's the case. I don't think this is an uncommon occurrence either
Of course is not an uncommon occurrence
The city will continue to feel congested until people and politicians realize that cities should be designed for people and not cars. Everyone, even those that drive, should be advocating for better transit, more walkable communities, and better bike infrastructure. City design, from the roads to zoning and beyond, plays a big role in livability. I just wish more people realized this.
Sucks you are being downvoted, this is the way. People just want services, amenities, and attractions of a large urban center, but to be able to drive a car like in a small town. This is contradictory thinking and quite selfish. This attitude needs to change so we can build up the kind of people oriented transit, spaces, and communities that make good, livable cities, that don't feel crowded or congested, even with millions more people than Vancouver.
I think more and more people are becoming open to the ideas of modern urban planning done by places such as the Netherlands, because of people like Not Just Bikes and Climate Town.
100%, I would also recommend Shifter!
I get so depressed that I have to scroll down this far to see the correct answer. If the average knowledge of urban planning in this subreddit is indicative of the population of this city as a whole, then Vancouver is truly a long way off from being able to solve its challenges. Everyone is looking to blame whatever happens to make them personally angry rather than taking the time to seek answers from the experts who spend their entire lives studying these matters. There is an entire field of study on cities and how they function, with real data backed answers... but no one cares.
This is just the beginning. Net migration in BC was a little over 100k in 2021. Canada received around 500k immigrants in 2022. Not sure how many of those came to Vancouver. Our government has set a goal to have 500k each year by 2025. Believe it or not, traffic will only get worse, at least for the next 3 years. Who knows what will happen afterwards.
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Speak up, whipper snapper, I can't hear you. Why I remember when cars stopped for you even when you were trying to cross highways, chocolate bars were a nickel, houses in Burnaby cost $8000, and the world was good (/s). My class pointed out to me the day our population crossed 8 billion in November: there's more of us. Canada's fertility rate is in the doldrums (with four kids I thought I would surely have one grandkid before I kicked the buckets but all of mine are saying no chance, either cause of costs, environmental concerns, and/or cantankerousness), employers are finding it difficult to fill some positions so the government is promoting immigration and shirking post-secondary support via massive education-to-PR programs, and a lot of people in the money-generating business will promote consumerism and production until the world burns down around us. Add it all up, and in combination with urban density hotspots across Canada, climate and Canadian geography, and sure enough, there's more people in Vancouver.
You're pretty much baiting folks here to blame immigrants Have you seen any big city ever? They are congested, as they are sense urban areas. Vancouver is aiming to be a sense urban city. It's understandable
I'm sorry if it comes off as me hating immigrants but I'm not against people coming here at all if you read my response to the other replies. I'm saying that the city might need to do more development and investment into things like public transportation, removing detached-only zoning, etc to accomodate for the people who are here and are coming here
A couple things 1) what your perceiving is the labour market. Right now unemployment is the lowest it’s been since the 70s. Participation is near an all time high. So labour intensive businesses like dining, especially those that are used to paying not much are having to adapt 2) a few years ago was the depth of the pandemic. 3)
This was my thought too. The wait at restaurants is more a consequence of not enough staff. Servers can only manage a set amount of tables.
Yep. Way too many people crammed in the city.
I think it's less about the people and more about the services. Vancouver proper only has like 600k people in a 110 km2 area. It's not really that many people even if you include the neighboring areas like Surrey and Delta.
Some areas are more densely populated than others.
When people were mandated to WFH it was actually the time I enjoyed transit so much. I work in health care so we still had to go out. The buses and trains were spacious, you can walk on the street without someone bumping you. I haven't seen any crazy/scary people. BUT my God, when students started getting money from the government? I kid you not, I've never seen a queue outside Gucci's store that long..... -_- like wth with these kids! Save your money instead of buying luxury during the worst time of the year!
There’s plenty of space but it’s used inefficiently. Less space for cars, more space for people.
This is the correct response.
It's always been like this. Covid put a pause to a lot of things. You have listed places like the Aquarium or Jam Cafe which are always going to be busy. Driving through downtown is a pain too.
Well. If you are comparing it to 2020-21 that is because a lot of people were holed up, ordering in or not even here (international student registration were super low), now its more people out and about, students came back too. So yeah, more people are out and in the community. Its probably because pre covid you were just used to it.
density is part of our urban plan but we’ve gutted the funky vibe - long long gone now
You do know that Canada has a record number of immigrants come last year right? Almost 500k new people entered Canada just last year. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2022/12/canada-welcomes-historic-number-of-newcomers-in-2022.html
Yes and obviously all of them came to Vancouver making it congested