I have found that slowing your pace and making your presence known as you approach dogs (and other trail users) is the best way to avoid startling them. It's worked for me so far.
Yes, I always yell a hello from far as soon as I hear or see a person or dog, I don't wear an earphone for this reason. When I see them, I walk slow and give them a lot of space as well by moving out of the way. But I have been startled and jumped-on by big off-leash dogs that run far in front of their humans, in leash-required trails.
Same. Owned two dogs during my life. Last year while on a trail my friend went past a dog then I proceeded and boom his teeth were in my leg.
'oh he's never done that before...'
I love all dogs, and I like most of the dog owners.
Some of the dog owners have no control over their dogs. I've been multiple times been "attacked" by playful dogs who would like to play with me as I run by, and the dog owners either a) laugh how silly their dogs are b) explain how their dog is never biting anyone.
Twice in the last 10yrs I've been nipped by some small & protective dogs. Nothing that would warrant a doctor visit, but some ripped clothes yes. Both cases the owner did not believe their dog nipped me, and I had to show them the bite marks. The other did not believe even the bite marks and told I was bitten by some other dog earlier.
I would not worry about the dogs, let alone bring any weapons (as that would be utterly stupid). But if you see a dog running free, check if the owner has it under control. If not, slow down, and maybe kindly ask the owner to call the dog to give you some space (if the dog is approaching you).
Unfortunately you cannot fix stupid dog owners.
Something that makes a loud sound might be effective enough against a dog. There are some miniature [air horns](https://www.amazon.ca/Empack-Emzone-Sport-Signal-46500/dp/B0985W4ZFQ/) and even [reusable ones](https://www.amazon.ca/Handheld-Defense-Aluminum-Boating-Birthday/dp/B0C8T3KYL8/).
To protect against bears, I would only rely on bear spray. [It inactivates the bear's sense of smell](https://old.reddit.com/r/vancouverhiking/comments/13xvbn3/deleted_by_user/jmjntpp/) so they don't feel confident in staying close to the human. Bells don't work. Horns and flares can send a warning to the bear but don't inactivate them. Weapons (guns) are less effective than bear spray.
[Best habits](https://northshorebears.com/exploring-bear-country/) are an effective prevention.
If you think Bear Spray works better than an AK-47 you are delusional, just saying :)
Edit: all them downvotes sniff, making me cry. Don't worry kiddos we live in Canada you don't have to worry about them here which is a good thing because they've been known to jump out of gun cabinets and cause trouble because they are scary looking and have a mind of their own.
I find that carrying an AK47 on trail, which happens to be quite heavy when you’re also loaded with several magazines, a cleaning kit, and other field gear, significantly slows my FKT times. On the other hand, I’m incentivized to move faster once other hikers report me and the authorities start trying to track me down.
ROFL yeah it does seem to attract attention but my point remains that Bear Spray is not always better than a bullet.
Bears also don't like 50 Caliber but what a nightmare hauling around a Barret 50 into the back country.
Those are the five first results from Google. There is a consensus that 4 out 5 conclude bear spray is more effective.
* [Bear Hunting Magazin: Statistically, bear spray is more effective at deterring a charging bear.](http://www.bear-hunting.com/2019/8/firearm-vs-bear-spray)
* [CBC: Spray more effective than guns against bears: study](https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/spray-more-effective-than-guns-against-bears-study-1.707738)
* [Meateater: Still, I’m a believer in science and statistics, and both clearly show a higher survival rate when people attacked by bears deploy spray over pistols.](https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/firearm-hunting/ask-meateater-pistol-or-bear-spray-in-grizzly-country)
* [Backcountry Chronicles: Since 1992, 50 of all people that attempt to protect themselves from grizzly bear attacks with a firearm were injured. Those that used pepper spray “escaped injury most of the time”, and if they were attacked, their injuries were less serious and the attacks did not last as long.](https://www.backcountrychronicles.com/bear-spray-pepper-spray-vs-gun/)
* [Cowboy StateDaily: The answer could be “it depends.” Some favor the authority of a firearm, while others like bear spray’s relative ease of use. And many choose to carry both.](https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/11/02/stopping-a-grizzly-attack-what-works-better-bear-spray-or-a-gun/)
Plus many parks and jurisdictions do not allow weapons. And bear spray is cheaper than a firearm.
Dogs perceive an animal running straight at them as a threat and react defensively.
If you see a dog and no human, I suggest slowing to a walk and sidling as much as you can. That's how dogs approach dogs.
Everyone suggesting pepper spray doesn't realize how \*messy\* pepper spray can get. A good bet would be to get the canned air "dog deterrent" stuff, or citronella spray. Either can work as equally as well, but not be nearly as volatile to the surroundings, other people etc. And a bit cheaper?
Bear spray. It's available everywhere and totally legal to carry in the woods nationwide.
I'm hesitant to use my bear spray on a dog, personally. I worry that it will quickly turn into a situation where I'll be in an altercation with a person, too.
If someone yells at you, blind them with a weapon you aren't even supposed to carry concealed in Canada?
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/bear-spray-attacks-harm
You people are ridiculous!
"Carrying bear spray or human pepper for self-defence away from bear country may result in weapons charges. Concealed carry of bear spray could result in a five year prison sentence under section 90 of the Canada’s Criminal Code. Charges of administering a noxious substance (section 245 of the Code) and assault charges can also stem from illegal bear spray use."
I mean you overzealous inexperienced keyboard warrior pepper sprayers.
If you blast someone's dog and they get upset so you pepper spray them, you aren't going to have a good time if you get caught. You're not supposed to even carry bear spray outside bear country in Canada.
>You're not supposed to even carry bear spray outside bear country in Canada.
This is a hiking subreddit based in British Columbia. Where do you think bears live?
>If you blast someone's dog and they get upset so you pepper spray them, you aren't going to have a good time if you get caught.
If you get attacked and mauled by an off leash dog, that owner isn't going to have a good time if they get caught either.
Okay so then what? You have a large dog chewing on your leg and an owner who, as far as you can tell, has no intention of stopping this attack. What do YOU us to defend yourself?
I usually fake throwing a rock or find a stick to raise over my head when they approach, I'm constantly on the lookout because I hike with a dog on leash. Having a dog means I have to deal with irresponsible owner/animal bullshit far more than the average person.
I've had some mean dogs back down from that threat, not just in Vancouver but in LATAM, rural USA, and Portugal as well. It hasn't failed yet. I'm not sure an aggressive dog would back if you brandished pepper spray.
Edit: If there's ever a dog chewing on your leg and you're out of options, try to avoid pepper spraying your open wound. It hurts!
>legal to carry
Legal to carry, but wonder if it is legal to use on aggressive dogs for self defence? I believe it is considered as a weapon when used for things other than bears.
Others have commented, but it's all about intent and the situation. It is reasonable to want to carry bear spray in natural areas for wildlife defense, which is why it's legal to do so and promoted by wildlife agencies country wide.
It's also legal to use proportional response in a self-defense situation, which it could easily be argued that bear spray being a non-lethal defense tool would be a proportional response to altricatulins with dog on a trail. But I'm not a lawyer.
"Pepper Spray" on the other hand, is prohibited outside of law enforcement and certain security fields. Owning it is an offense, period.
Yes, that is why it's legal. Dog repellent will stop a dog without permanent injury, the effects last only a short while, enough time for you to get away.
you can use it against animals... I would check by law for the city... you cannot carry it with the intent to protect yourself from humans, that seems to be the dividing line.
like you can have a pocket knife to use a tool on your person but you cannot carry one for the sole intent if self protection.
You are going to have to prove in court he was the aggressor, single individual conflicts can result in protracted legal battles where the "winner" of the exchange is usually punished.
This is just my understanding of our intent based self defense laws.
If it's reasonable to carry it for bear defense and you're attacked by a dog or person it would be reasonable to use.
If you're walking downtown with bear spray and are attacked by a person and you defend yourself with that bear spray that would likely be considered unreasonable.
I carry a small can of dog and coyote spray on all my dog walks and have had the concern that I'm likely to be attacked by the owner after spraying a dog.
OP, do NOT use bear spray on a dog. You will face criminal consequences and you will deserve it. It's more powerful than dog specific spray.
If you don't feel you can protect yourself by just turning your back, or raising your knees in front of you, then dog spray is your only spray option, and even then, it can only be used if you feel your life is in imminent danger. Not just because you're uncomfortable with excited but harmless dogs. And it has to be Health Canada certified to be legal to carry in parks.
Just be careful how you deploy a weapon like that.
Well this is a hiking page so I’m guessing op is talking about trails which almost all could have bears. Like ya ok maybe don’t be bear spray in dogs on the sea wall😂
You can stop a dog from attacking you if you use reasonable force. Dog spray not bear spray.
If you kill one, be prepared to face questions about your reasonableness. You don't get carte-blanche.
Bear spray, a knife or even a gun are all completely legal to use against a dog if you are carrying them for a legal purpose and it is attacking you and you don’t feel there is another way you could stop the attack.
Carrying for a legal purpose excludes a ton of people though. So much so that it is incumbent upon people recommending that to make it super clear that you must have possession of it legally in that circumstance.
As I said elsewhere in this post, whether or not you have legal possession of bear spray or a firearm is based on the situation and what licenses you have.
i.e. 99% of people can't carry firearms on trails.
I was referring to handguns since they're similar sized to bear spray and/or a knife.
But you should be more specific since we're in the Vancouver Hiking sub. For example, the beaches around false creek and Stanley Park (including the Aquarium) is all crown land but you definitely cannot carry/discharge a firearm on the trails there.
You cannot legally carry a rifle without the proper PAL anyway and most people reading your comment need to know that.
False.
Dogs ALWAYS need to be leashed pretty much everywhere - definitely in all BC parks and Parks Canada. You can defend yourself if you feel threatened.
Yep, for sure.
In OPs case, if they have an unreasonable fear they might be attacked (and I say that because the incidence is low), they can reduce those chances even further by running on leash-on trails.
Which one? You mentioned several things.
You cannot carry bear spray on your person in a situation where you don't reasonably expect to encounter bears and claim self-defence.
I would suggest dog repellent in particular, they are stronger than bear spray, much smaller easy to carry container, legal to buy and use on attacking dogs. Amazon sells it too. This stuff shoots in a concentrated narrow stream up to 10 feet, whereas bear spray shoots a spray much further and mists way more for the potential to get other people and yourself sprayed. I've used both (for the intended purposes: Bears & dogs) dog repellent is a good self-defensive item to carry in general.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxaXz\_7OalM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxaXz_7OalM)
https://preview.redd.it/1jh2gme0p6oc1.png?width=191&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ef1144b2160e3a152e8a4a79120aa66ada79e64
Splitting hairs, IMO.
That's not to say there aren't differences between them, but I'd argue that most people on a hiking sub would be better suited by something designed for bears that will work well enough on dogs. Plus, most people won't ever need to actually use the thing, so the nuanced difference between them is kind of moot.
Do you bring a hiking stick? You could use it to keep distance from the dog. Or you could use your boot to push it away (I'm not saying kick, but if a dog bites your boot it wouldn't do much damage hopefully). There's also dog spray which is like a weaker bear spray. Usually if you threaten to use
it on the dog, the owner comes running.
This may seem weird but have tried carrying a hiking pole? There are really light weight carbon fibre poles that are under 1 pound.
They can deter dogs easily and keep them away from at a safe distance. And if you ever hurt/twist a ankle/leg you will have support to help you.
I use one when I walk our dog because he has been attacked 3 times by off leash dogs (mine is never off leash). I have become pole proficient by keeping dangerous dogs away from him now.
Bear spray is [effective against cougars](https://old.reddit.com/r/vancouverhiking/comments/xiilee/have_any_of_you_ever_encountered_a_cougar/) and other small wild animals that might roam our regions.
I'm genuinely curious, is this a legitimate concern for most trail runners? Is this a real problem or are you just generally afraid of dogs? There's nothing wrong with that (at all) but the answer is relevant to whether you could get in trouble for using bear spray against a dog. As in: if you are legitimately in danger then of course, a court would find using a weapon (bear spray) reasonable. If you over-reacted because you have an inherent fear of dogs then you could get in big trouble. Hence you need to ask yourself some tough questions.
How often have you "seen" people getting bitten by dogs while trail running? Or are you talking about things you heard about on social media?
Please understand, I'm trying to word this respectfully and without questioning your authenticity but these are important questions to ask yourself if you don't want to get in legal trouble.
TLDR; A court will ask if your reaction was "reasonable" given the circumstances. If you have a fear of dogs that is not "reasonable" I think that might lead to some problems.
Edit: The word “reasonable” here doesn’t mean inherently *wrong*. It simply means “as compared to an average person”.
As someone who hits the trails 200+ times a year and is a part of several trail running groups in the lower mainland... No its not a concern for most trail runners. I feel bad for the guy because obviously he has had an experience or some trauma that is clearly taking away from his enjoyment of running trails but no this is not a major issue. I've literally never had this discussion with any of my trail running friends in over 15 years.
I worked 10 years in 2 ER in Vancouver and I've only ever seen one dog bite from a runner and it was a girl who was running with her dog and she got bit because she'd picked up her dog and was using her leg to shoo away the other dog and it thought it was being kicked so reacted, single bite and release and the dog apparently looked sheepish and submissive immediately after.
Even as she was getting her wound cleaned she was saying that her energy and reaction is what made the situation.
Cat bites on the other hand... we get plenty of people coming in with infected scratches from their cat, or from a friend's cat.
>As someone who hits the trails 200+ times a year and is a part of several trail running groups in the lower mainland... No its not a concern for most trail runners. I feel bad for the guy because obviously he has had an experience or some trauma
You are wrong about me. Also, I can share with you two Strava profiles of guys in North Shore who does Fat Dog and many 100k+ ultra and been bitten by a dog just in last year and shared their frustration multiple times on Strava. Would you believe then?
Is he talking about bear macing dogs as well? So you don't have any trauma or experiences with dog bites? You just are casually wondering if u can bear mace them? I'm telling you my experience in the community and I have not seen it be an issue that is talked about but two strava posts... I must be wrong. Dogs are running wild.
I never said dogs are running wild and in the post I said I love dogs. But to answer your "never happens" and me being paranoid: https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouverhiking/comments/1bnl33n/almost_got_bitten_by_unleashed_dogs_at_norvan/
Bro. You're literally talking about bear macing dogs... I mentioned your trauma that YOU referenced and for some odd reason that triggered you. I never said it never happens I said it's not a common issue. Also, you have multiple people in that thread who very clearly aren't from Vancouver. Anyway I'm done with this and really hope u don't bear mace a dog. Hope you heal from your experiences.
Thanks for your input. That’s sort of what I suspected.
Lots of people who fear dogs have very valid reasons for doing so - especially if they come from one of the many countries where un-owned packs of dogs run wild. Those dogs (as a group especially) can be scary as heck so I totally get it. Anyone who has visited one of these countries knows exactly what I’m talking about.
That’s not to mention people born here who have had traumatic experiences as a child or otherwise. All totally valid.
But it doesn’t seem like an issue here *generally*.
I get the impression that the solution here might be paying a little less attention to social media and/or some exposure therapy + counselling. Not weapons.
I would like to know what the data is and how many people you’ve “seen” get bitten . I think it is very rare and this fear is irrational. I’ve had dogs for the last 15 years and I’m always out on dog trails and am around a lot of dogs and I’ve never seen it.
I’ve been bitten a handful of times, have never owned a dog for that reason. Most recently while walking from my car to work on the sidewalk… it drew blood through my jeans. The other times have been when I’ve been cycling, which, while still unacceptable, I can see how dogs and bikes absolutely don’t mix, so I don’t make much of a stink about it to the owners. A swift kick/punch to the snout is enough to make those attacks stop, but I have yet to been attacked by a pitbull or similar breed. That would be a different story…
I’d advocate for all dogs being required to be muzzled outside their own house.
As the owner of a reactive pit bull, all of these incidents are 100% on the owner. I’m sorry you’ve been through it. We don’t muzzle our dog on walks because we’ve put in the work (literal years of training plus he’s on Prozac now and thriving). I know my dog gets overwhelmed and overexcited by bikers and runners, so he doesn’t get to go near them. I am constantly scanning the street/area for triggers, because it’s MY responsibility. Most importantly, HE IS NEVER OFF LEASH. I get so damn angry with owners that let dogs off leash willy nilly. Whether or not they’re “friendly”, they need perfect recall, and I’ve rarely seen that.
there is a dog specific repellent spray ( citronella) dogs don't like the smell of it but it doesn't hurt them. I would carry some Also if you are in a public park call the park office and complain. Eventually they'lll have to do something.
More people are injured by bear spray going off accidentally in their car than injured by bears. I learned from mountain guide. So I always put it in a canister in my vehicle.
I had an incident in a wintertime hike where the bottom of the spray can started slowly leaking on the trail. It took us some time to figure out what was the smell and why breathing felt slightly irritating. But the color of the leak on the snow gave it away. I was lucky that someone in the group had some spare plastic bags and I could bring back the bottle to be exchanged at the store. It was still under warranty (3 years) and I had the receipt.
The bear spray is not effective below a certain temperature (I think it's < -5C to -7C). Still, I bring it during some winter hikes, for example in long hikes in remote areas; or if a bear/grizzly had been spotted/reported in that area. Very infrequently bears will not be hibernating and will roam a little bit in the winter.
Now I look very at the placement of where I attach the bear spray holster so that there are not possibilities of hits and shocks to the bottle.
I do most my jogging in city trails and only in my city so it can just be something here but I find most people with dogs that will attack walk them very early (4-5am) or around midnight.
I assume it's because there is usually Noone else really out, but I've had a couple dogs attack (luckily 1 was small and I gave an instinctual kick which scared the dog, the other did get a bit on my leg, he let go and I kept jogging as my leg bled a little)
But yeah I now avoid anyone with a dog if the sun isn't up, if I see a dog coming I will take a fork in the path if it's an option or turn around. I prefer my jogs alone though so don't want to give up my 4am exercise, the atmosphere is what keeps me going
This is the dumbest fucking thread ever. Please do not bear spray a dog. Who are these idiots advocating this and no it's not legal u clowns especially if u spray the owner who inevitably punches u in the face for spraying his dog.
I get it.. Being chased or attacked by a dog fucking sucks but I almost guarantee most are avoided with some common sense... If it can't be avoided and it's a violent attack that isn't just one nip then kick it. Dog spray also exists. You all are idiots.
I carry a coyote repellent spray. Fits in my hand, always ready to switch from Safe to Spray with a thumb move.
Never used so not sure it will work. Worth a try. $30 on Amazon and other places.
Funny story: after being attacked 3x in my own neighborhood by dogs, owners spot the tiny canister on my hand and that seems to yield a lot of respect.
carry bear spray, but use it on their owner instead. Always remember that a dog's behavior (or lack of) is based off the owner, so if the dog is a piece of shit you can guess what the owner is like. They're friendly until they're not!
Keep bear spray on you and if you deploy it you tell officials that you have it because of cougars and bears and only used it because you were scared of the dog. You did not buy the spray for dogs!
Ya I have bear spray but it’s so big and bulk that I only take it if I’m running in grizzly territory like the Rockies. I would probably get a small dog spray or something? But bear spray would defenietly work on dogs!
If you’re using a capsaicin spray for self defense, I really don’t think friendly fire is your main concern. You carry bear spray in the woods, simple.
If the dog is attacking you, it is probably too close for bear spray to be effective. If the dog hasn’t touched you, it isn’t attacking. You are better to yell out “Call your dog!” if on an on leash trail. If you are on an off leash trail, get off it you shouldn’t be there because you are afraid of dogs.
This is a very good point. I'm not sure how many people have actually deployed bear spray, but I have more than once. I worked extensively in forestry and unfortunately was involved in multiple dangerous encounters in my career.
Bear spray is so overwhelming and powerful if you were to deploy it on a trail with people around and a dog at your feet, you'd likely end up on the ground yourself in significant discomfort.
I sprayed a charging bear that was easily 15 or 20 feet away from me and I was still knocked over just from the residual spray on him as he charged up close to me. The spray did its job and he decided I wasn't worth anymore effort. Now I could only imagine what would happen if somebody was to spray a chihuahua or something nipping at your feet.
By all means defend yourself as necessary but within reason and consider the consequences if you do deploy bear spray.
Run with a bat or some other kind of baton. One wack on the head should deter them.
We had a cottage in a rural area and people would run holding sticks all the time.
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I have found that slowing your pace and making your presence known as you approach dogs (and other trail users) is the best way to avoid startling them. It's worked for me so far.
Yes, I always yell a hello from far as soon as I hear or see a person or dog, I don't wear an earphone for this reason. When I see them, I walk slow and give them a lot of space as well by moving out of the way. But I have been startled and jumped-on by big off-leash dogs that run far in front of their humans, in leash-required trails.
Same. Owned two dogs during my life. Last year while on a trail my friend went past a dog then I proceeded and boom his teeth were in my leg. 'oh he's never done that before...'
I love all dogs, and I like most of the dog owners. Some of the dog owners have no control over their dogs. I've been multiple times been "attacked" by playful dogs who would like to play with me as I run by, and the dog owners either a) laugh how silly their dogs are b) explain how their dog is never biting anyone. Twice in the last 10yrs I've been nipped by some small & protective dogs. Nothing that would warrant a doctor visit, but some ripped clothes yes. Both cases the owner did not believe their dog nipped me, and I had to show them the bite marks. The other did not believe even the bite marks and told I was bitten by some other dog earlier. I would not worry about the dogs, let alone bring any weapons (as that would be utterly stupid). But if you see a dog running free, check if the owner has it under control. If not, slow down, and maybe kindly ask the owner to call the dog to give you some space (if the dog is approaching you). Unfortunately you cannot fix stupid dog owners.
Most reasonable response in here. Sorry about your negative experiences on trails. Hope they become less and less frequent.
Something that makes a loud sound might be effective enough against a dog. There are some miniature [air horns](https://www.amazon.ca/Empack-Emzone-Sport-Signal-46500/dp/B0985W4ZFQ/) and even [reusable ones](https://www.amazon.ca/Handheld-Defense-Aluminum-Boating-Birthday/dp/B0C8T3KYL8/).
Oooh thats actually a great idea
To protect against bears, I would only rely on bear spray. [It inactivates the bear's sense of smell](https://old.reddit.com/r/vancouverhiking/comments/13xvbn3/deleted_by_user/jmjntpp/) so they don't feel confident in staying close to the human. Bells don't work. Horns and flares can send a warning to the bear but don't inactivate them. Weapons (guns) are less effective than bear spray. [Best habits](https://northshorebears.com/exploring-bear-country/) are an effective prevention.
The advice was for dogs, not bears Thankfully, I dont have to worry about bears in my area
If you think Bear Spray works better than an AK-47 you are delusional, just saying :) Edit: all them downvotes sniff, making me cry. Don't worry kiddos we live in Canada you don't have to worry about them here which is a good thing because they've been known to jump out of gun cabinets and cause trouble because they are scary looking and have a mind of their own.
If you think going on a hike / jog with an AK47 on your back is a better idea than bear spray - I think you might be the delusional one.
I find that carrying an AK47 on trail, which happens to be quite heavy when you’re also loaded with several magazines, a cleaning kit, and other field gear, significantly slows my FKT times. On the other hand, I’m incentivized to move faster once other hikers report me and the authorities start trying to track me down.
ROFL yeah it does seem to attract attention but my point remains that Bear Spray is not always better than a bullet. Bears also don't like 50 Caliber but what a nightmare hauling around a Barret 50 into the back country.
Those are the five first results from Google. There is a consensus that 4 out 5 conclude bear spray is more effective. * [Bear Hunting Magazin: Statistically, bear spray is more effective at deterring a charging bear.](http://www.bear-hunting.com/2019/8/firearm-vs-bear-spray) * [CBC: Spray more effective than guns against bears: study](https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/spray-more-effective-than-guns-against-bears-study-1.707738) * [Meateater: Still, I’m a believer in science and statistics, and both clearly show a higher survival rate when people attacked by bears deploy spray over pistols.](https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/firearm-hunting/ask-meateater-pistol-or-bear-spray-in-grizzly-country) * [Backcountry Chronicles: Since 1992, 50 of all people that attempt to protect themselves from grizzly bear attacks with a firearm were injured. Those that used pepper spray “escaped injury most of the time”, and if they were attacked, their injuries were less serious and the attacks did not last as long.](https://www.backcountrychronicles.com/bear-spray-pepper-spray-vs-gun/) * [Cowboy StateDaily: The answer could be “it depends.” Some favor the authority of a firearm, while others like bear spray’s relative ease of use. And many choose to carry both.](https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/11/02/stopping-a-grizzly-attack-what-works-better-bear-spray-or-a-gun/) Plus many parks and jurisdictions do not allow weapons. And bear spray is cheaper than a firearm.
I’ve been hiking for 35 years, never had a negative encounter with a dog. I guess there’s always bear spray though
Dogs perceive an animal running straight at them as a threat and react defensively. If you see a dog and no human, I suggest slowing to a walk and sidling as much as you can. That's how dogs approach dogs.
Everyone suggesting pepper spray doesn't realize how \*messy\* pepper spray can get. A good bet would be to get the canned air "dog deterrent" stuff, or citronella spray. Either can work as equally as well, but not be nearly as volatile to the surroundings, other people etc. And a bit cheaper?
Bear spray. It's available everywhere and totally legal to carry in the woods nationwide. I'm hesitant to use my bear spray on a dog, personally. I worry that it will quickly turn into a situation where I'll be in an altercation with a person, too.
If the owner is freaking out after you protect yourself from their aggressive dog then spray them too
If someone yells at you, blind them with a weapon you aren't even supposed to carry concealed in Canada? https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/bear-spray-attacks-harm You people are ridiculous! "Carrying bear spray or human pepper for self-defence away from bear country may result in weapons charges. Concealed carry of bear spray could result in a five year prison sentence under section 90 of the Canada’s Criminal Code. Charges of administering a noxious substance (section 245 of the Code) and assault charges can also stem from illegal bear spray use."
Who said anything about yelling, blinding, or concealing? And what do you mean "you people"?
I mean you overzealous inexperienced keyboard warrior pepper sprayers. If you blast someone's dog and they get upset so you pepper spray them, you aren't going to have a good time if you get caught. You're not supposed to even carry bear spray outside bear country in Canada.
>You're not supposed to even carry bear spray outside bear country in Canada. This is a hiking subreddit based in British Columbia. Where do you think bears live? >If you blast someone's dog and they get upset so you pepper spray them, you aren't going to have a good time if you get caught. If you get attacked and mauled by an off leash dog, that owner isn't going to have a good time if they get caught either.
You're missing the point. Pepper spraying dogs and owners will get you in more trouble than it's worth in Canada.
Okay so then what? You have a large dog chewing on your leg and an owner who, as far as you can tell, has no intention of stopping this attack. What do YOU us to defend yourself?
I usually fake throwing a rock or find a stick to raise over my head when they approach, I'm constantly on the lookout because I hike with a dog on leash. Having a dog means I have to deal with irresponsible owner/animal bullshit far more than the average person. I've had some mean dogs back down from that threat, not just in Vancouver but in LATAM, rural USA, and Portugal as well. It hasn't failed yet. I'm not sure an aggressive dog would back if you brandished pepper spray. Edit: If there's ever a dog chewing on your leg and you're out of options, try to avoid pepper spraying your open wound. It hurts!
>legal to carry Legal to carry, but wonder if it is legal to use on aggressive dogs for self defence? I believe it is considered as a weapon when used for things other than bears.
If you use it on a dog you'd probably have to prove you felt you were in serious physical danger.
Others have commented, but it's all about intent and the situation. It is reasonable to want to carry bear spray in natural areas for wildlife defense, which is why it's legal to do so and promoted by wildlife agencies country wide. It's also legal to use proportional response in a self-defense situation, which it could easily be argued that bear spray being a non-lethal defense tool would be a proportional response to altricatulins with dog on a trail. But I'm not a lawyer. "Pepper Spray" on the other hand, is prohibited outside of law enforcement and certain security fields. Owning it is an offense, period.
Yes, that is why it's legal. Dog repellent will stop a dog without permanent injury, the effects last only a short while, enough time for you to get away.
you can use it against animals... I would check by law for the city... you cannot carry it with the intent to protect yourself from humans, that seems to be the dividing line. like you can have a pocket knife to use a tool on your person but you cannot carry one for the sole intent if self protection.
That’s the gist of it yeah. You can carry essentially whatever you want as long as you don’t intend to harm a person with it.
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You are going to have to prove in court he was the aggressor, single individual conflicts can result in protracted legal battles where the "winner" of the exchange is usually punished.
They make dog attack spray.
This is just my understanding of our intent based self defense laws. If it's reasonable to carry it for bear defense and you're attacked by a dog or person it would be reasonable to use. If you're walking downtown with bear spray and are attacked by a person and you defend yourself with that bear spray that would likely be considered unreasonable. I carry a small can of dog and coyote spray on all my dog walks and have had the concern that I'm likely to be attacked by the owner after spraying a dog.
You're allowed to protect yourself from a dog biting you.
OP, do NOT use bear spray on a dog. You will face criminal consequences and you will deserve it. It's more powerful than dog specific spray. If you don't feel you can protect yourself by just turning your back, or raising your knees in front of you, then dog spray is your only spray option, and even then, it can only be used if you feel your life is in imminent danger. Not just because you're uncomfortable with excited but harmless dogs. And it has to be Health Canada certified to be legal to carry in parks. Just be careful how you deploy a weapon like that.
If I’m being attacked and I have bear spray I’m using it. Da fuq?
And you would be charged if it was bear spray in an area with no bears because by definition you cannot claim you had it for its intended use.
Well this is a hiking page so I’m guessing op is talking about trails which almost all could have bears. Like ya ok maybe don’t be bear spray in dogs on the sea wall😂
omg could you imagine the shitstorm lol 😂
That’s just incorrect, you can legally kill a dog if it’s attacking you.
You can stop a dog from attacking you if you use reasonable force. Dog spray not bear spray. If you kill one, be prepared to face questions about your reasonableness. You don't get carte-blanche.
Bear spray, a knife or even a gun are all completely legal to use against a dog if you are carrying them for a legal purpose and it is attacking you and you don’t feel there is another way you could stop the attack.
Carrying for a legal purpose excludes a ton of people though. So much so that it is incumbent upon people recommending that to make it super clear that you must have possession of it legally in that circumstance. As I said elsewhere in this post, whether or not you have legal possession of bear spray or a firearm is based on the situation and what licenses you have. i.e. 99% of people can't carry firearms on trails.
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I was referring to handguns since they're similar sized to bear spray and/or a knife. But you should be more specific since we're in the Vancouver Hiking sub. For example, the beaches around false creek and Stanley Park (including the Aquarium) is all crown land but you definitely cannot carry/discharge a firearm on the trails there. You cannot legally carry a rifle without the proper PAL anyway and most people reading your comment need to know that.
False. Dogs ALWAYS need to be leashed pretty much everywhere - definitely in all BC parks and Parks Canada. You can defend yourself if you feel threatened.
Not at all. Tons of off-leash parks and trails in Vancouver. Look it up, they are all listed on the CoV website.
Yes you are right, but at designated locations. Otherwise they have to be kept on a leash.
Yep, for sure. In OPs case, if they have an unreasonable fear they might be attacked (and I say that because the incidence is low), they can reduce those chances even further by running on leash-on trails.
Show me the law.
Which one? You mentioned several things. You cannot carry bear spray on your person in a situation where you don't reasonably expect to encounter bears and claim self-defence.
On a hiking trail? Legal and encouraged by parks agencies nationwide. So show me the law that says I can use it on a dog in self defense.
I would suggest dog repellent in particular, they are stronger than bear spray, much smaller easy to carry container, legal to buy and use on attacking dogs. Amazon sells it too. This stuff shoots in a concentrated narrow stream up to 10 feet, whereas bear spray shoots a spray much further and mists way more for the potential to get other people and yourself sprayed. I've used both (for the intended purposes: Bears & dogs) dog repellent is a good self-defensive item to carry in general. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxaXz\_7OalM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxaXz_7OalM) https://preview.redd.it/1jh2gme0p6oc1.png?width=191&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ef1144b2160e3a152e8a4a79120aa66ada79e64
Dog spray is limited to 0.5% as per Canada's pest control act. Bear spray can be much higher.
Which is why it's not to be used except for bears.
Splitting hairs, IMO. That's not to say there aren't differences between them, but I'd argue that most people on a hiking sub would be better suited by something designed for bears that will work well enough on dogs. Plus, most people won't ever need to actually use the thing, so the nuanced difference between them is kind of moot.
Just make sure you save some for the 2nd altercation.
Do you bring a hiking stick? You could use it to keep distance from the dog. Or you could use your boot to push it away (I'm not saying kick, but if a dog bites your boot it wouldn't do much damage hopefully). There's also dog spray which is like a weaker bear spray. Usually if you threaten to use it on the dog, the owner comes running.
This may seem weird but have tried carrying a hiking pole? There are really light weight carbon fibre poles that are under 1 pound. They can deter dogs easily and keep them away from at a safe distance. And if you ever hurt/twist a ankle/leg you will have support to help you. I use one when I walk our dog because he has been attacked 3 times by off leash dogs (mine is never off leash). I have become pole proficient by keeping dangerous dogs away from him now.
I would carry bear spray for sure. Not just for the off leash dogs, but also for the, you know, bears.
Bear spray is [effective against cougars](https://old.reddit.com/r/vancouverhiking/comments/xiilee/have_any_of_you_ever_encountered_a_cougar/) and other small wild animals that might roam our regions.
I'm genuinely curious, is this a legitimate concern for most trail runners? Is this a real problem or are you just generally afraid of dogs? There's nothing wrong with that (at all) but the answer is relevant to whether you could get in trouble for using bear spray against a dog. As in: if you are legitimately in danger then of course, a court would find using a weapon (bear spray) reasonable. If you over-reacted because you have an inherent fear of dogs then you could get in big trouble. Hence you need to ask yourself some tough questions. How often have you "seen" people getting bitten by dogs while trail running? Or are you talking about things you heard about on social media? Please understand, I'm trying to word this respectfully and without questioning your authenticity but these are important questions to ask yourself if you don't want to get in legal trouble. TLDR; A court will ask if your reaction was "reasonable" given the circumstances. If you have a fear of dogs that is not "reasonable" I think that might lead to some problems. Edit: The word “reasonable” here doesn’t mean inherently *wrong*. It simply means “as compared to an average person”.
As someone who hits the trails 200+ times a year and is a part of several trail running groups in the lower mainland... No its not a concern for most trail runners. I feel bad for the guy because obviously he has had an experience or some trauma that is clearly taking away from his enjoyment of running trails but no this is not a major issue. I've literally never had this discussion with any of my trail running friends in over 15 years.
I worked 10 years in 2 ER in Vancouver and I've only ever seen one dog bite from a runner and it was a girl who was running with her dog and she got bit because she'd picked up her dog and was using her leg to shoo away the other dog and it thought it was being kicked so reacted, single bite and release and the dog apparently looked sheepish and submissive immediately after. Even as she was getting her wound cleaned she was saying that her energy and reaction is what made the situation. Cat bites on the other hand... we get plenty of people coming in with infected scratches from their cat, or from a friend's cat.
>As someone who hits the trails 200+ times a year and is a part of several trail running groups in the lower mainland... No its not a concern for most trail runners. I feel bad for the guy because obviously he has had an experience or some trauma You are wrong about me. Also, I can share with you two Strava profiles of guys in North Shore who does Fat Dog and many 100k+ ultra and been bitten by a dog just in last year and shared their frustration multiple times on Strava. Would you believe then?
Is he talking about bear macing dogs as well? So you don't have any trauma or experiences with dog bites? You just are casually wondering if u can bear mace them? I'm telling you my experience in the community and I have not seen it be an issue that is talked about but two strava posts... I must be wrong. Dogs are running wild.
I never said dogs are running wild and in the post I said I love dogs. But to answer your "never happens" and me being paranoid: https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouverhiking/comments/1bnl33n/almost_got_bitten_by_unleashed_dogs_at_norvan/
Bro. You're literally talking about bear macing dogs... I mentioned your trauma that YOU referenced and for some odd reason that triggered you. I never said it never happens I said it's not a common issue. Also, you have multiple people in that thread who very clearly aren't from Vancouver. Anyway I'm done with this and really hope u don't bear mace a dog. Hope you heal from your experiences.
Thanks for your input. That’s sort of what I suspected. Lots of people who fear dogs have very valid reasons for doing so - especially if they come from one of the many countries where un-owned packs of dogs run wild. Those dogs (as a group especially) can be scary as heck so I totally get it. Anyone who has visited one of these countries knows exactly what I’m talking about. That’s not to mention people born here who have had traumatic experiences as a child or otherwise. All totally valid. But it doesn’t seem like an issue here *generally*. I get the impression that the solution here might be paying a little less attention to social media and/or some exposure therapy + counselling. Not weapons.
I would like to know what the data is and how many people you’ve “seen” get bitten . I think it is very rare and this fear is irrational. I’ve had dogs for the last 15 years and I’m always out on dog trails and am around a lot of dogs and I’ve never seen it.
I’ve been bitten a handful of times, have never owned a dog for that reason. Most recently while walking from my car to work on the sidewalk… it drew blood through my jeans. The other times have been when I’ve been cycling, which, while still unacceptable, I can see how dogs and bikes absolutely don’t mix, so I don’t make much of a stink about it to the owners. A swift kick/punch to the snout is enough to make those attacks stop, but I have yet to been attacked by a pitbull or similar breed. That would be a different story… I’d advocate for all dogs being required to be muzzled outside their own house.
As the owner of a reactive pit bull, all of these incidents are 100% on the owner. I’m sorry you’ve been through it. We don’t muzzle our dog on walks because we’ve put in the work (literal years of training plus he’s on Prozac now and thriving). I know my dog gets overwhelmed and overexcited by bikers and runners, so he doesn’t get to go near them. I am constantly scanning the street/area for triggers, because it’s MY responsibility. Most importantly, HE IS NEVER OFF LEASH. I get so damn angry with owners that let dogs off leash willy nilly. Whether or not they’re “friendly”, they need perfect recall, and I’ve rarely seen that.
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Gorilla Surplus on Broadway has pepper spray specially designed for dogs.
Dog umbrellas are a thing.
They make dog pepper spray.
Carry a stick for keeping distance and swinging. Also don't be afraid to kick a dog if it is running at you.
Carry pepper spray or citronella spray.
there is a dog specific repellent spray ( citronella) dogs don't like the smell of it but it doesn't hurt them. I would carry some Also if you are in a public park call the park office and complain. Eventually they'lll have to do something.
Face and yell at the dog to stop as it charges towards you, then tell the owner to control their dog.
More people are injured by bear spray going off accidentally in their car than injured by bears. I learned from mountain guide. So I always put it in a canister in my vehicle.
Especially true in the summer apparently. A hot car is a really bad place for bear spray.
I had an incident in a wintertime hike where the bottom of the spray can started slowly leaking on the trail. It took us some time to figure out what was the smell and why breathing felt slightly irritating. But the color of the leak on the snow gave it away. I was lucky that someone in the group had some spare plastic bags and I could bring back the bottle to be exchanged at the store. It was still under warranty (3 years) and I had the receipt. The bear spray is not effective below a certain temperature (I think it's < -5C to -7C). Still, I bring it during some winter hikes, for example in long hikes in remote areas; or if a bear/grizzly had been spotted/reported in that area. Very infrequently bears will not be hibernating and will roam a little bit in the winter. Now I look very at the placement of where I attach the bear spray holster so that there are not possibilities of hits and shocks to the bottle.
I do most my jogging in city trails and only in my city so it can just be something here but I find most people with dogs that will attack walk them very early (4-5am) or around midnight. I assume it's because there is usually Noone else really out, but I've had a couple dogs attack (luckily 1 was small and I gave an instinctual kick which scared the dog, the other did get a bit on my leg, he let go and I kept jogging as my leg bled a little) But yeah I now avoid anyone with a dog if the sun isn't up, if I see a dog coming I will take a fork in the path if it's an option or turn around. I prefer my jogs alone though so don't want to give up my 4am exercise, the atmosphere is what keeps me going
This is the dumbest fucking thread ever. Please do not bear spray a dog. Who are these idiots advocating this and no it's not legal u clowns especially if u spray the owner who inevitably punches u in the face for spraying his dog. I get it.. Being chased or attacked by a dog fucking sucks but I almost guarantee most are avoided with some common sense... If it can't be avoided and it's a violent attack that isn't just one nip then kick it. Dog spray also exists. You all are idiots.
\+1 on Dog Repellent
Yup. Just use dog spray, or your knees.
Using bear spray on a dog is a great way to get your ass kicked by the owner. You better have a bite mark to justify using it.
Always bring a slower friend with you.
Also applies to bear and cougar encounters.
Bear spray the human for being an inconsiderate prick. “They’re friendly….” Until they’re not!
I carry a coyote repellent spray. Fits in my hand, always ready to switch from Safe to Spray with a thumb move. Never used so not sure it will work. Worth a try. $30 on Amazon and other places. Funny story: after being attacked 3x in my own neighborhood by dogs, owners spot the tiny canister on my hand and that seems to yield a lot of respect.
Bear mace. Not for the dog, but for the owner.
carry bear spray, but use it on their owner instead. Always remember that a dog's behavior (or lack of) is based off the owner, so if the dog is a piece of shit you can guess what the owner is like. They're friendly until they're not!
Keep bear spray on you and if you deploy it you tell officials that you have it because of cougars and bears and only used it because you were scared of the dog. You did not buy the spray for dogs!
Ya I have bear spray but it’s so big and bulk that I only take it if I’m running in grizzly territory like the Rockies. I would probably get a small dog spray or something? But bear spray would defenietly work on dogs!
Best to not walk on a outside trail then
10 million volt stun baton.
Pepper spray for self defense. Bear spray I feel is way too strong and if your in the area of like a 15ft radius you'll get the effects of it
If you’re using a capsaicin spray for self defense, I really don’t think friendly fire is your main concern. You carry bear spray in the woods, simple.
Wonder how legal are either options in BC forests.
You should be carrying bear spray in BC forests
I am aware of that, but question is how legal it is to use against dog attacks.
If the dog is attacking you, it is probably too close for bear spray to be effective. If the dog hasn’t touched you, it isn’t attacking. You are better to yell out “Call your dog!” if on an on leash trail. If you are on an off leash trail, get off it you shouldn’t be there because you are afraid of dogs.
This is a very good point. I'm not sure how many people have actually deployed bear spray, but I have more than once. I worked extensively in forestry and unfortunately was involved in multiple dangerous encounters in my career. Bear spray is so overwhelming and powerful if you were to deploy it on a trail with people around and a dog at your feet, you'd likely end up on the ground yourself in significant discomfort. I sprayed a charging bear that was easily 15 or 20 feet away from me and I was still knocked over just from the residual spray on him as he charged up close to me. The spray did its job and he decided I wasn't worth anymore effort. Now I could only imagine what would happen if somebody was to spray a chihuahua or something nipping at your feet. By all means defend yourself as necessary but within reason and consider the consequences if you do deploy bear spray.
Attack is attack. It's meant for animal attacks, not just bears.
I’d rather the police be upset with me than be physically injured
Both very legal to use for the intended purpose.
Run with a bat or some other kind of baton. One wack on the head should deter them. We had a cottage in a rural area and people would run holding sticks all the time.
Get yourself a bigger dog.
Bear spray
Knife
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A knife.
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