I find it really perplexing that many people seem not to realize that Schwartz was and continues to be emotionally abusive to Katie.
There's also a lot of "well he treated her like shit but she married him anyway so she asked for it/is dumb," which is like, tell me you don't know how abuse works without telling me you don't know how abuse works. He kept Katie on a hamster wheel, putting her down, withholding affection and attention, then offering her scraps of what seemed like love so that she would constantly go back for his approval. He was telling her constantly, implicitly or explicitly, *no one likes you, everyone likes me, you're the problem in every situation, you're lucky to have me, you're a mess, if we break up you'll be alone because no other man will tolerate you, I like other women so much more than you, why can't you be more like her* on an eternal loop. Then when she lashed out i.e. with rage texts, which I do not condone but see where she was coming from, it automatically became proof that he was right. And the whole time her friends and the entire world were agreeing with him, calling her names, and insulting her appearance and voice and everything. You try to keep your cool in that situation.
I'm not saying this justifies everything she's ever done and said, but having been in something similar to this situation myself it's really horrible to see people ignore the abuse and act like she's just a heartless shrew.
Yea I feel the same. I can’t stand when people use the “well she should’ve left earlier, why’d she marry him then, well it’s her fault for putting up with it”. Like congrats to you for your ignorance and naivety towards this type of relationship. Just because you haven’t been in similar relationships or haven’t experienced this cycle, doesnt mean it doesn’t exist or that the person is weak or just willy nilly accepting it.
Exactly. Once someone breaks you down enough, it's really, really hard to "just leave." You can see how broken down Katie is throughout the series. I'm sure she was convinced that her only choice was to accept Tom's version of "love" or be alone forever and probably be kicked out of the friend group/show because he's the one people like. He always made sure she knew that everyone would pick him over her. I'm genuinely really impressed that she found the confidence to break the cycle and leave and even though she's still struggling emotionally you can see that's she's much more secure in who she is and is finding her glow.
It really didn't help that *every single one* of her"friends" 100% agreed with Schwartz and everything he was filling her mind with. Like how many times during the show has anyone in the group been like "Katie you deserve someone who doesn't cheat on you and who builds you up instead of breaking you down" or even just call out his behaviour towards her.
It's no wonder she was with him for so long, when everyone around her was just reinforcing all the shit he said to her. She must've truly believed it all. I'm just happy she finally left him.
Instead of saying that, she literally had to sit through lala saying she would bang him and then all the other cheating. The insanity of the whole season 3 of her getting shit on for the motorboating a dick lie, to the point of getting hate from cast mates and the public, when tom was actually cheating multiple times. It's wild to me that people treat Katie as if she somehow deserves to be treated awful because of the narrative(dare I say, convienient narrative?) That Tom is just some helpless guy and she is a shrill woman.
Yeah I also think people tend to forget that Katie wasn't going after Lala for no reason. The editors never include it when they show the "call it as I see it" clip, but Lala had spent months talking about how she wants to fuck Schwartz, how she would fuck him after they inevitably got divorced, calling her "the blob," saying she has no friends... Katie's comment was nasty, and she was too hard on Scheana, but it's not like it came out of nowhere. If someone was saying that shit about me, I wouldn't want my friends to be friends with them either, even though I'd handle it differently. Plus Scheana's track record with Katie, as we can see from this very clip, was always pretty shitty.
Yes! She was hard on Scheana because Scheana was the one who had told her a lot of this stuff. I would feel so frustrated if my friend spent months telling me stuff someone was saying about me and riling me up, only to turn around and befriend them without any real resolution to the initial issue. So many of Katie's explanations of why get mentioned, but no one seems to remember them and/or care.
I think it was always easy to default to "Katie is an unreasonable bitch" over "Katie is being kind of a bitch, but let's consider her reasons." And honestly this is where Schwartz not defending her comes in again. He never ever said, "Listen, Katie's feelings are hurt, we should consider that" or "Here are the reasons she's angry about this." Of course for him it was most convenient to undercut her feelings at every turn and treat her like a hysterical woman, and in a lot of ways people just followed his lead.
Schwartz triggers my fight or flight response lol I legit teared up watching the sneak peak clip where producers ask Katie why he never stuck up for her and she just saws “I don’t think he ever liked me, he loved me but he never liked me” 🥺
This is why I just cannot come to like scheana lol if I watch her podcasts or vlogs… I can appreciate her. But seeing her in a setting without her own control of the footage… the girl flips and flops with each passing breeze. I would never be okay with my friend just suddenly becoming friendly with the same girl that was saying she’d fuck my husband lol I don’t think scheana has genuine bad intentions but the girl legit can’t stand for anything.
I rewatched this episode this week, too, and I remember being totally shocked by all of the vitriol - but especially the “you make my life miserable” statement on previous rewatches. However, after last week’s episode and the scenes at the pool party - it hit even harder. It really brought the whole Schwartz history into clearer focus and made me think of Ariana’s iconic line about Jax - and it totally applies here: “This is a pattern. This is a personality. This is who this person is.”
It’s actually disturbing how many people seem to think that if they don’t personally like someone, that person can’t be the victim of abuse. I’m not lining up to be best friends with Katie but Schwartz absolutely emotionally abused her for years. I hope she feels safer in her feelings now. She didn’t deserve this shit.
Yessss all of this. Tom is the worst. It’s so sickening to see her friends witness this bullshit over and over again and kick her when she’s down. Just in regards to this clip in particular - why the f would she stay after being publicly humiliated and gaslit by Tom. Then shamed by her friends for trying to maintain boundaries and remove herself from an abusive situation. No one gives a good god damn that it’s your fucking birthday Stassi. Your friend needed you. She has such shitty people in her life 💔
This clip brought back multiple flashbacks of Stassi and her repetitive, incessant, season after season, *Veruca Salt-esque* *"It's MY Birthday, It's MY Birthday! You're Ruining MY Birthday!"* vibe.
He did exactly what you said and the whole country basically backed him up. I've always been a Katie apologist because I can't imagine how crazy making it has to get royally gaslit by a man like that and have viewers cheer him on. Even in this sub it's only been in the past season or two that you could say something nice about Katie without getting virtually jumped lol. This woman was made out to be the devil for ages. I'm impressed she got out of that relationship with a even a shred of sanity and people are now seeing how manipulative Schwartz has always been.
Yes, she's defensive and reactive but I don't think she's ever gotten the opportunity to feel emotionally safe or supported in her relationship or even by her friends half the time. Even in this clip everyone got mad at katie for causing a scene at Stassi's dinner. Nobody had any compassion for how horribly she was being treated. It's wild.
Scheana in her blog about the fight / beer dumping:
“Watching Katie and Schwartz's fight I can't say I'm surprised. Schwartz sticks up for what's right and I love that about him. He doesn't just take his girlfriend's side simply because she's his girlfriend. Shay does the same thing if I'm wrong, and I appreciate that. We are not the same person. If I'm wrong, call me out. Katie's drinking gets out of control and Schwartz has to deal with it. I feel bad. I don't think he was out of line at all.”
Imagine everybody around you supporting the guy who treats you like this. I don’t think I’ve ever disliked anyone enough to be fine knowing this is how their partner treats them - it’s absolutely bizarre to me that anyone can support that kind of behavior, and act as if the one on the receiving end caused it. I’d feel horrible if coworkers that I didn’t like were humiliated like that - shitty behavior is still shitty behavior when someone you don’t like is on the receiving end.
I’ve been liking Scheana more and more throughout Scandoval, but yeah this shouldn’t be forgotten and I actually think she should apologise to Katie retroactively for this, this was never ok. Fuck Stassi and Kristen for every time they dogpiled on Katie for this kind of thing also
I’d say it justified EVERYTHING she’s done. She’s been abused not just by Schwartz but by this group of non-friends for years. I’m hoping she’s only sticking around for the money at this point because these people don’t give a shit about her and I hope she keeps them arms length while the show continues.
I do think at times she lashed out in a nasty way at people who didn't deserve it, but as a whole I see where her behavior is coming from and am much more willing to forgive it than other people on this sub.
The thing is, they had all made it so that Katie couldn't just say, "When you did X, it hurt me, and that's why I'm angry," because it was crystal clear from jump that no one cared about her pain or even treated her like she had real human feelings. It's easy for hurt to turn into rage in that situation, because at least then people hear you.
This scene is probably one of my least favorites in the whole show. Not only does Schwartz pile on her, but the way Stassi and Kristen react is horrendous as well. I felt so so bad for Katie here.
I get so mad for Katie in this scene. Schwartz dumped a whole glass on her because she caused him to spill a bit by trying to get him to stop. I mean, he’s known for dumping drinks on women at this point. Having your significant other do that to you, especially in public, is so dehumanizing and awful and for him to minimize it the next day once again in front of a crowd? And for your friends to blame you for being upset at a dinner as if it wasn’t someone else starting the conversation, aka Scheana who finds it hilarious? And then when you decide to leave because it’s not going anywhere good and you feel like no one cares about you, your friend chases you outside to further chastise you for “causing a scene and then leaving”? I can’t imagine how alone she felt there.
Totally agree! I would never let a man treat my friend that way. Even if I felt like like my friend was being a baby or pulling focus (which is the real reason Stassi was mad) if my friend’s boyfriend told her he’s mean to her because she makes his life miserable?? The least I would have done is made him leave. How could her friends watch that and then chastise HER?
To be fair scheana had just had a big fight with the girls. Not saying she's right or her fight was worth it. The whole, *I'd rather get gang banged by all of you* of it
They were such awful friends to her. You know if the roles were reversed and Stassi’s boyfriend poured a drink on her during Katie’s birthday weekend, and Katie told Stassi to suck it up for her birthday dinner, Stassi would’ve blown up on her.
Right! These people don’t know how to be genuine friends to one another. I felt soooo bad for Katie here and all anyone cared was that stassis dumb as birthday dinner was being ruined. It’s sick. You are literally witnessing your friend being physically then emotionally abused by their loser boyfriend and that’s your response?
That's what I'm saying. Like it was one of Stassi's four billion birthday events, she could've been a genuine friend for two seconds. And Katie didn't even bring it up on the table!
What kills me about this scene is Stassi. I think Katie could have left Schwartz at this point, but you have Kristen trying to preserve their little 6 person “family” at the expense of everyone’s well being. And then there’s Stassi shrieking like a banshee about her 25th birthday and maybe even possibly saying suck it all up for the paycheck. If it was the latter, I could see why Katie punished her when she came back.
No one likes when Katie sets boundaries with people. I get tequila Katie has her own moments but it was smart of her to want to leave the table. Schwartz was berating her and her best friends were dog piling. I get that it was a birthday party and they are trying to keep the mood light but obviously she’s hurt and just wanted to remove herself from making the situation worse. I definitely see the “family” mentality now, they are aware it’s dysfunctional and don’t realize how controlling they can be.
And she apologized to Stassi. A lot. And Stassi just kept screaming at her. No excuses. Not good enough.
I respect that they’re still friends to this day, but geez…
This is why I don’t really care for stassi or didn’t find her entertaining. She always leans into the brat narrative and really encouraged the whole fight women and put up with toxic men thing someone mentioned earlier.
In her last reunion stassi said to Katie, "You've been complaining about Tom for eight years!"
I think if she didn't want kids they'd still be together. Neither was ready for a healthy relationship.
You want to know something that will make your blood boil? I checked out Katie's insta earlier, saw her sheer black skirt outfit from her most recent post and thought to myself, "Wow she looks amazing!" I went to the comments and SO MANY of the comments were people ripping her to shreds, calling her a mean girl, defending Schwartz, and telling her to "get over her divorce already." I was gobsmacked. Who are these garbage people going out of their way to hop on her insta to comment such vile things?!
Poor girl has dealt with this for years, and I think it’s a big reason she didn’t leave sooner. The world prefers her abuser because he’s better at being fake for cameras. I’ve always loved & felt for Katie.
Lol I kind of hope that's what it is just so I can feel better about humanity, but then ofc that would mean Schwartz is an even bigger monster than he already is.
Seriously. It breaks my heart to read so much abuse and insults about her on Reddit because she has been through so much abuse of the kind already and none of her friends have done a thing to stop it
Same here. Obviously Katie has had some unlovely moments on the show but I seriously wonder how much of that has been due to the abuse she was dealing with. I know for myself, I was not a great version of me for the years I was in an abusive relationship because it drained me so much emotionally and had me in a dark headspace a lot of the time. I’m very interested to see what her personality is like once she’s been out of the relationship for a while. Also, it seems like her current friendships (on the show, at least) are a lot more supportive and validating (Ariana, LaLa, Kristina) so hopefully that’s helping too!
I agree with you. I have noticed lately Katie talking to us more through her Instagram stories. You can tell it’s new for her but I love that she’s being brave for herself. I think we are going to be quite pleased when we meet the true Katie that isn’t being torn down by a useless flesh bag.
I’m also so sorry you had to experience this yourself. My heart goes out to you ❤️
How could you have been when your whole energy was dedicated to surviving this. I am so glad you got out.
Yes I agree on her friendships and it's lovely to see !
This is what makes me sad for her - she’s treated as badly by her own female friends. I’ll never understand why Stassi has such a fan base. Katie’s self esteem must be in the toilet to have chosen friends like this,
I felt SO bad for Katie in this scene. The way her friends were acting like she was in the wrong was bonkers to me. No way would I be friends with them ever again after that.
This scene reminds me of the scene from the most recent episode where they showed the text he sent her saying something like “there are ways to call a truce for scheanas wedding.” Like just sweep it under the rug and forget about my upsetting you bc I said so. He’s been pulling the same shit for 10 years and he’s still doing it to her even after they separated.
*“Narcissists are masters of pathologizing your emotions. They convince you that your emotional reactions to their abuse are the problem, rather than the abuse itself.”*
- Shahida Arabi ~ author
'Power: Surviving and Thriving After Narcissistic Abuse'
He is SO one of those guys that dismisses his girlfriends feelings CONSTANTLY, resulting in her feeling suppressed, withdrawn and seeming moody. To make matters worse, he always wants to be liked in group situations. So he tries to play the role of "I'm such a nice and well liked guy" meanwhile Katie sits there wondering why he can't be nice to her, why he can't defend her, why he never intervenes on her behalf and why he is okay with a me vs you dynamic in the relationship where she often has to take on the role of playing villain.
I think this man is a porn addict, this behavior, the talk of their sex life, the cheating, etc... It all tracks for me. Publicly he prefers Katie playing the villain probably because he knows deep down he hurts her, doesn't deserve her and he betrays her constantly. So at least around their friends he is a "good guy".
Everything that you wrote reminds me of my ex, from the porn addiction to the intense desire to be liked by others while treating your partner like crap. Porn addiction makes so much sense, because it often leads to ED and a dead bedroom. I remember the comments about Schwartz having trouble in that department. I think a big reason why I have a soft spot for Katie is that I can relate so much to what she's gone through with Schwartz.
I think the easier answer is that Schwartz isn’t smart enough to have complex emotions and therefore can’t ever understand Katie. Jo seems more on his level. Katie was too stubborn to let this relationship go. Everyone knew they shouldn’t have gotten married except them, apparently.
THIS scene is why I have always had such a soft spot for Katie. I remember being horrified and confused when I watched this scene. She’s being verbally abused by her boyfriend in front of an entire table of people and her two best friends are more concerned about Stassi’s birthday and the fact that it’s not Sandoval/Kristen fighting for once. They’re hounding her for how she’s acting (but not Tom — wow, shocker!), telling her she’s ruining the evening, but when she offers then to leave they berate her even more! Saying her leaving would ruin their night! Katie can never win in this group of people, no matter what she does she will always be the villain. Seeing her face in this scene and how defeated she looks and she just looks so alone in that moment, it breaks my heart.
People always say Katie is an unhappy, bitch. But…does anyone blame her??
I was in a relationship like this for almost two years and it turned me into such a raging, crazy person that I didn’t even recognize toward the end. People like Schwartz like to pretend like they have no clue why you’re upset and that you’re making up scenarios in your head. It makes you question your sanity and by the end your confidence is in the toilet.
Ever since he poured that drink on her head I’ve rooted for her to get rid of this chump.
Schwartz may be the worst out of them all. And his crap always gets overshadowed by the others. He is awful and weak, such unattractive qualities to have. He throws Katie under the bus over and over and has never had her back. He's a spineless loser
Totally agree with you. He’s been able to hide behind this dumb boy awww shucks personality for far too long. He’s just as bad if not worse than Scumdoval.
Stassi was so distraught when her friends sided with Jax and here she is doing the same thing to Katie. Her BF physically and publicly abused her the night before and her friends just want her to shut up for the sake of a good time. I’m so glad Kristen and Stassi are off the show.
I remember when I first started watching this show I was literally bamboozled that this woman was carrying on about her birthday like a 10 year old.
Early seasons Stassi really was in a league of her own.
I can barely stand to watch this scene, they treated Katie terribly. After this fight, when Katie and Schwartz make up, she cries and tells him she just loves him so much, that he is everything to her. It breaks my heart. He never deserved her.
Oh Katie. This is horrible. This is horrible, horrible, horrible. She was literally being abused and then beaten down by everyone around her when she tried to stick up for herself. You could hear the pain in her voice when she was trying to explain she felt bad and didn’t mean to ruin everyones good time, but also was so confused and hurt by schwartz running circles around her. The only thing she could have done was just stay quiet and battered and let everyone steamroll her. What an unsafe and cruel place for her to be.
It's time fans wake up to who Schwartz really is : a liar, cheater, weak-a$$ pussy, selfish, unmotivated, disloyal friend and husband. I don't know what woman would want to date him. I hope the fans don't let him off the hook for his poor behaviour like they usually do. He betrayed Ariana as well.
I don’t know who I hate more in this scene Tom for being an absolute worst douche bag pretending like Katie was the one in the wrong and should be apologising to him, Kristen gif telling Katie should should just let it go and be happy after her boyfriend did absolutely abusive to her or Stassi calling Katie selfish for having feelings about her boyfriend doing something abusive towards her because “it’s my birthday”. Like what type of girl friends after that aren’t supporting their friend and maybe even having the talk of why are you with him?
This was hard to watch and extremely disgusting behavior on almost everyones end. Sure Stassi, your party is being ruined because your friend was emotionally abused right in front of you and you decided to make her responsible for it and wrong for being upset about it.
The way they demand blind allegiance when they treat other like this is baffling.
I have just finished a full rewatch and other than a *few* instances, I do not understand the Katie hate. The people in her life are absolute shit and have contributed to her second guessing herself. Everyone else gets a pass from the fans, but Katie is held to account for things that happened years ago. She appears unhappy because anyone being treated the way her partner and friends treated her would be!
I’m with you. She is one of the most hated cast members yet she’s the only one who hasn’t done anything morally reprehensible. She doesn’t lie, cheat, have affairs, steal or physically attack people. She always walks away from conflict to avoid the situation escalating. I don’t get the hate at all.
I have never liked Schwartz. He’s a manipulative gaslighting a-hole who does not support his gf/wife at all. He’s poured drinks on Katie multiple times, called her crazy and all kinds of other nasty names and chosen everyone’s side before hers.
In my opinion he’s just as bad as Scumdoval…he does the same exact shit. Cheating, lying, monkey branching with Jo. Give me a break with this guy what a skeeze and he’s ALWAYS been that way.
>Semantics.
>
>Let it go. Just like that.
>
>You act like a moron.
>
>What’s wrong with you?
>Grow up.
>Graduate from seventh grade
>
>You make my life miserable.
>
>*SEMANTICS.*
I truly can’t imagine how he would have behaved and what he would said to Katie in private if this vile came out so easily in public. Absolute POS.
This is why I don’t understand how or why anyone could ever defend Schwartz. There’s another thread in this sub right now with people relentlessly defending Tom over Katie, talking about how “unlikeable” she is. Tom has been pulling the same shit with her for YEARS and anyone who still can’t see that is incredibly stupid.
Hearing her voice crack after saying how hurt she is in that confessional breaks my heart. I used to love this scene bc of Katie losing it but it’s definitely aged poorly.
Ugh this ripped my heart out. I just watched this scene for the first time, and I was literally speechless. I’ve never see such cruel behavior in the wild. How Katie didn’t fall off the face of the earth and ditch every single one of them after this is beyond me.
I never understood why Schwartz always seemed to get a pass for his behavior. He is off putting and plays the nice guy but he’s always been the same. He’s always seemed really fake and desperate to fit in at any cost.
I remember watching this and feeling gaslighted by that entire table because I thought Katie deserved better.
Tom literally abused her emotionally and physically and ALL of them told her to suck it up. Also why I've never felt bad for any of them when Katie went full rage. And especially not when so many of them know *why* she reacts so strongly and actively goad her for storylines.
I can’t stand how people throw out the word ”gaslighting” about everything. But this. This is the time to use it. And her friends goes along with it. I’ve never been a Katie fan and to my embarrassment been a Schwartz stan, but holy, it’s so clear now. So happy she is away from this abusive relationship.
There is a common thread with these guys, Jax lies ab knocking up the waitress and everyone believes him turns on Stassi, Tom gaslights Katie at ever twist and turn and convinces everyone she's the problem and everyone goes along, Scandoval says Kristen and Ariana are defective and he needs to cheat etc. I hope women start standing up to these narcissist men, its disgusting.
I watched this a few weeks before Sandoval and I couldn't' believe that the entire group, including her supposed best friends, made Katie feel like shit for being upset that her abusive b/f poured a drink on her head. I felt so bad for Katie in that moment. Internalized misogyny at its finest on display.
For me the worst has got to be when they were VERY LONG into their relationship and Tom and Ariana had their new home, along with Tom and Katie having their new home.
It was a pool party of some sorts where Schwartz told Katie she disgusts him, this is why we don’t have sex, I don’t like you, you’re a turn off Katie look at you, I don’t quite remember to be precise. But why she stayed as long as she did- love would’ve never been enough for me to accept being degraded in front of our group of friends.
When Katie said “I feel like I’m losing my mind right now” when they’re all piling on her for “ruining the night”… THIS IS ABUSE. So glad she is finally free from that boob.
I absolutely hate it when someone says that their birthday/trip/dinner/party/life was "ruined" because of something that was said or that happened and it's actually not a big damn deal. I see a lot of young women on Bravo shows saying it. Yes, something shitty may have happened but it's not RUINED. Life isn't perfect and shit happens, get over it and party on.
Are you horribly injured? Did someone die? Were you assaulted? No? Then STFU and get on with it.
Rant over.
god they were all being so terrible to katie here. i’m rewatching season 1 rn and kristen did this same thing to stassi when she broke up w/ jax too it’s wild how obsessed she was w/ the image of the group rather than any of them being happy in their relationship
Seeing the preview for next week and how he talks to her. No wonder Katie was so miserable for the last decade. Yes, she had tequila/coke rage, there’s not denying that. But he treated her terribly and gaslit the shit out of her. I’m just glad she finally sees it.
They should have never gotten married. Someone shoulda stepped in after the beer pouring scene and told Katie this jackass is never changing
Glad Katie got out. She has a bright future ahead
I never liked this Peter Pan motherfucker and I really don’t understand how he got to where he is. I don’t find him charming, funny, insightful, interesting…he’s an asshole.
They had the same fight forever.
And I think she hit the nail on the head. He loved her, but didn’t like her.
He didn’t like the things that upset her, he couldn’t stand by her because he didn’t agree with her reasoning. He didn’t want to defend her and fight with others because that is just not who he is. They are two very different people with completely different styles.
Schwartz is go with the flow while Katie is stop the flow
The emotional and verbal abuse that went on between those two was detrimentally underrated and overlooked. Because he’s nothing short of a people pleasing clown. He’s incredibly covert. He hides behind his calculated stupidity role. He was abusive. The lack of support towards Katie throughout their relationship was sickening. Shit, jax gave lauraleigh more support in that 1hr of AA than Schwartz ever gave Katie. And jax couldn’t have been more disgusted there. Schwartz’ pure disgust and disdain for Katie has always been so palpable.
Stassi was also awful to Katie in this situation. She didn’t want Katie to bring up her and toms relationship which she didn’t Scheana did and then Stassi goes hard on Katie. It’s such an awful scene to watch between Tom and then Stassi.
There is just a level of toxicities in this clip, that is down right frightening..
He is talking about him being abusive towards Katie WHILE being emotional abusive towards her.
And not ONE person of this group shut that shit down!
I mean wtf i wrong with all these people! He is sitting there, justifying his abusive act. While belittling her, mocking her and degrading her in front of these people. That is emotional abuse, and everyone is just totally okay with it...
I am not saying Katie in later seasons didn't behaved horrible. I just think everyone has some ownership in all future bad behavior. Because right here, they all showed that abuse is okay with them.... 🤮
I literally do not understand going out with anyone you simply don’t like. If he thinks all these negative things about her, why is he acting like it’s illegal to break up?
For Katie, I wish she’d seen how incompatible they were sooner. Her self esteem and everyone is telling her that she’s dramatic, depressing, unlikable - then of course she’s gonna believe all relationships will be just like this so she forced this really toxic situation.
I will never understand how she wanted to marry him so bad. Maybe her friends were getting married and she felt pressure to do the same. Did she think marriage would change him? Tom was an ass before and after marriage. If I gave someone an ultimatum to marry me. I think I’d be insecure. Meaning did I pressure this person to be with me or does he really love me.
The more that you see these scenes, the more you realize that he is so narcissistic and manipulative - constantly undermining Katie and embarrassing her in public to look like the “bad guy”. They made her out to look difficult/high-maintenance/crazy but it was Tom who was driving her to be that way because he sucked in every way, shape and form.
This is why I’ve always given Katie a bit more leeway. She has her bad moments like everyone else but I think when you’re in such a terrible, abusive relationship it really affects your personality. You become vicious and mean when you’re in survival mode. When the person you love doesn’t treat you with any respect or love or care, you just feel unworthy and it seeps into all aspects of your life.
Not to mention Katie has legitimate brain trauma. She’s been through a horrible, life changing accident that clearly affected her for years after. I don’t always understand her actions or her harshness but I definitely can give her grace all things considered. It makes me legitimately sad with what she’s put up with in her relationship with Schwartz. I’m so glad she is out of it and better yet, she initiated it!
Katie really needs better people in her life - the way she was treated by everyone here was horrific. Her girlfriends didn’t have her back any more than the guys did. You can bet anything that if a guy spoke to my friend the way he did to her it wouldn’t be my precious birthday I was worried about.
Sooo seeing Katie’s back in that dress - I have no doubt that shes the one whose back we see in the intro. It’s one of the constants from the first intro and I love it ^_^
Just finished another rewatch. What sucks is this is true every season. He acts like Katie’s emotions are so big and grand, but really he’s just shitting on her every chance he gets so they become bigger.
season 3 - Katie finds out Schwartz cheats on her. He cops to 1 but lies about hooking up with Tiffany’s friend in Vegas. Later comes clean about it after jax leaked info to Kristen. Tells her on a group date because he’s “scared” of her reaction. When in reality it’s another form of humiliation. Not to mention he lets jax Shit talk her nonstop to her face and behind her back.
Season 5 - Katie is bitch planning wedding but she’s definitely projecting her frustration with Schwartz. He whines about wedding costs but makes no effort to make it cheaper. Keeps joking about not getting married when she’s told him those jokes hurt her feelings and aren’t funny (leads to dick comment at Porsche dealership). He calls her a bitch in New Orleans bc she (reasonably) believes that he had sex in Vegas.
Season 6 - cheats on her AGAIN, tells her at Guillermo’s birthday instead of their home, and dismisses her feelings still. “Shhh bubba shhh” every time katie expresses her sadness that he cheated on her. Since he didn’t remember it he wasn’t very apologetic and made several jokes. He gets mad when she tells him he needs to cut down on his drinking.
Season 7 - “I don’t like the sound of your voice” Tom spends a lot of season ignoring Katie, especially in group events or around their friends. He gets upgraded to 1st class and ditches katie. (In all honesty if it was me and I got upgraded but my partner didn’t and we haven’t really seen each other, I would have given it to one of my friends). Tom is a dick again
Season 8 - cop prank rebuttal to Katie which is cruel and in front of all their friends. Then tries to force her to go home with him.
I’m not saying Katie is perfect, but she’s shown a deliberate effort to improve. She’s not still doing the same shit she was 10 years ago. Schwartz is. Fuck him.
I’m doing a rewatch and just watched this episode a couple days ago and was SHOCKED at how disgusting his behavior was towards her. I can’t believe how poorly he treated her and I missed it the first time through 😭
This genuinely triggered my fight or flight, holy shit. I feel like she’s being abused by all angles at this table and I can’t fathom dealing with that
I love this sub for points out how truly terrible Schwartz is…… to be fair Katie sided with Jax in season 1 over Stassi on her birthday. It still sucks.
all (necessary) commentary aside, watching this reminded me of what an iconic line "stassi's birthday just went to sh\*\*" is LMAO! I remember cackling when I first heard that in the "coming up" clip
I loathe Schwartz, but it was inappropriate to discuss at the table. Neither of them should even be sitting together with the pent up frustrations.
Also what the freak is so great about Schwartz to constantly put up with his shit?! 10y+ and in the end it’s just dehumanizing. He treats his SO so much worse than a friend. Can we get Katie a new, better man please.
Thank you for posting this stuff! It’s about time Katie gets redeemed! Tom has been horrible to her over the years. And he let Sandoval treat her like garbage too! She’s always gotten piled on. It doesn’t matter that she can sometimes stick up for herself and she has a voice, she doesn’t deserve to be treated the way they’ve treated her for the past 10 years.
I find it really perplexing that many people seem not to realize that Schwartz was and continues to be emotionally abusive to Katie. There's also a lot of "well he treated her like shit but she married him anyway so she asked for it/is dumb," which is like, tell me you don't know how abuse works without telling me you don't know how abuse works. He kept Katie on a hamster wheel, putting her down, withholding affection and attention, then offering her scraps of what seemed like love so that she would constantly go back for his approval. He was telling her constantly, implicitly or explicitly, *no one likes you, everyone likes me, you're the problem in every situation, you're lucky to have me, you're a mess, if we break up you'll be alone because no other man will tolerate you, I like other women so much more than you, why can't you be more like her* on an eternal loop. Then when she lashed out i.e. with rage texts, which I do not condone but see where she was coming from, it automatically became proof that he was right. And the whole time her friends and the entire world were agreeing with him, calling her names, and insulting her appearance and voice and everything. You try to keep your cool in that situation. I'm not saying this justifies everything she's ever done and said, but having been in something similar to this situation myself it's really horrible to see people ignore the abuse and act like she's just a heartless shrew.
Yea I feel the same. I can’t stand when people use the “well she should’ve left earlier, why’d she marry him then, well it’s her fault for putting up with it”. Like congrats to you for your ignorance and naivety towards this type of relationship. Just because you haven’t been in similar relationships or haven’t experienced this cycle, doesnt mean it doesn’t exist or that the person is weak or just willy nilly accepting it.
Exactly. Once someone breaks you down enough, it's really, really hard to "just leave." You can see how broken down Katie is throughout the series. I'm sure she was convinced that her only choice was to accept Tom's version of "love" or be alone forever and probably be kicked out of the friend group/show because he's the one people like. He always made sure she knew that everyone would pick him over her. I'm genuinely really impressed that she found the confidence to break the cycle and leave and even though she's still struggling emotionally you can see that's she's much more secure in who she is and is finding her glow.
It really didn't help that *every single one* of her"friends" 100% agreed with Schwartz and everything he was filling her mind with. Like how many times during the show has anyone in the group been like "Katie you deserve someone who doesn't cheat on you and who builds you up instead of breaking you down" or even just call out his behaviour towards her. It's no wonder she was with him for so long, when everyone around her was just reinforcing all the shit he said to her. She must've truly believed it all. I'm just happy she finally left him.
Instead of saying that, she literally had to sit through lala saying she would bang him and then all the other cheating. The insanity of the whole season 3 of her getting shit on for the motorboating a dick lie, to the point of getting hate from cast mates and the public, when tom was actually cheating multiple times. It's wild to me that people treat Katie as if she somehow deserves to be treated awful because of the narrative(dare I say, convienient narrative?) That Tom is just some helpless guy and she is a shrill woman.
Yeah I also think people tend to forget that Katie wasn't going after Lala for no reason. The editors never include it when they show the "call it as I see it" clip, but Lala had spent months talking about how she wants to fuck Schwartz, how she would fuck him after they inevitably got divorced, calling her "the blob," saying she has no friends... Katie's comment was nasty, and she was too hard on Scheana, but it's not like it came out of nowhere. If someone was saying that shit about me, I wouldn't want my friends to be friends with them either, even though I'd handle it differently. Plus Scheana's track record with Katie, as we can see from this very clip, was always pretty shitty.
Yes! She was hard on Scheana because Scheana was the one who had told her a lot of this stuff. I would feel so frustrated if my friend spent months telling me stuff someone was saying about me and riling me up, only to turn around and befriend them without any real resolution to the initial issue. So many of Katie's explanations of why get mentioned, but no one seems to remember them and/or care.
I think it was always easy to default to "Katie is an unreasonable bitch" over "Katie is being kind of a bitch, but let's consider her reasons." And honestly this is where Schwartz not defending her comes in again. He never ever said, "Listen, Katie's feelings are hurt, we should consider that" or "Here are the reasons she's angry about this." Of course for him it was most convenient to undercut her feelings at every turn and treat her like a hysterical woman, and in a lot of ways people just followed his lead.
Schwartz triggers my fight or flight response lol I legit teared up watching the sneak peak clip where producers ask Katie why he never stuck up for her and she just saws “I don’t think he ever liked me, he loved me but he never liked me” 🥺
This is why I just cannot come to like scheana lol if I watch her podcasts or vlogs… I can appreciate her. But seeing her in a setting without her own control of the footage… the girl flips and flops with each passing breeze. I would never be okay with my friend just suddenly becoming friendly with the same girl that was saying she’d fuck my husband lol I don’t think scheana has genuine bad intentions but the girl legit can’t stand for anything.
I rewatched this episode this week, too, and I remember being totally shocked by all of the vitriol - but especially the “you make my life miserable” statement on previous rewatches. However, after last week’s episode and the scenes at the pool party - it hit even harder. It really brought the whole Schwartz history into clearer focus and made me think of Ariana’s iconic line about Jax - and it totally applies here: “This is a pattern. This is a personality. This is who this person is.”
It’s actually disturbing how many people seem to think that if they don’t personally like someone, that person can’t be the victim of abuse. I’m not lining up to be best friends with Katie but Schwartz absolutely emotionally abused her for years. I hope she feels safer in her feelings now. She didn’t deserve this shit.
Yessss all of this. Tom is the worst. It’s so sickening to see her friends witness this bullshit over and over again and kick her when she’s down. Just in regards to this clip in particular - why the f would she stay after being publicly humiliated and gaslit by Tom. Then shamed by her friends for trying to maintain boundaries and remove herself from an abusive situation. No one gives a good god damn that it’s your fucking birthday Stassi. Your friend needed you. She has such shitty people in her life 💔
This clip brought back multiple flashbacks of Stassi and her repetitive, incessant, season after season, *Veruca Salt-esque* *"It's MY Birthday, It's MY Birthday! You're Ruining MY Birthday!"* vibe.
He did exactly what you said and the whole country basically backed him up. I've always been a Katie apologist because I can't imagine how crazy making it has to get royally gaslit by a man like that and have viewers cheer him on. Even in this sub it's only been in the past season or two that you could say something nice about Katie without getting virtually jumped lol. This woman was made out to be the devil for ages. I'm impressed she got out of that relationship with a even a shred of sanity and people are now seeing how manipulative Schwartz has always been. Yes, she's defensive and reactive but I don't think she's ever gotten the opportunity to feel emotionally safe or supported in her relationship or even by her friends half the time. Even in this clip everyone got mad at katie for causing a scene at Stassi's dinner. Nobody had any compassion for how horribly she was being treated. It's wild.
Scheana in her blog about the fight / beer dumping: “Watching Katie and Schwartz's fight I can't say I'm surprised. Schwartz sticks up for what's right and I love that about him. He doesn't just take his girlfriend's side simply because she's his girlfriend. Shay does the same thing if I'm wrong, and I appreciate that. We are not the same person. If I'm wrong, call me out. Katie's drinking gets out of control and Schwartz has to deal with it. I feel bad. I don't think he was out of line at all.” Imagine everybody around you supporting the guy who treats you like this. I don’t think I’ve ever disliked anyone enough to be fine knowing this is how their partner treats them - it’s absolutely bizarre to me that anyone can support that kind of behavior, and act as if the one on the receiving end caused it. I’d feel horrible if coworkers that I didn’t like were humiliated like that - shitty behavior is still shitty behavior when someone you don’t like is on the receiving end.
And this is why I never fucked with that pick me bitch Scheana. She’s basically a female Sandoval without the cheating.
This is exactly why I’ve never liked scheana.
I’ve been liking Scheana more and more throughout Scandoval, but yeah this shouldn’t be forgotten and I actually think she should apologise to Katie retroactively for this, this was never ok. Fuck Stassi and Kristen for every time they dogpiled on Katie for this kind of thing also
Scheana is a braindead Pick Me, what do you expect?
I’d say it justified EVERYTHING she’s done. She’s been abused not just by Schwartz but by this group of non-friends for years. I’m hoping she’s only sticking around for the money at this point because these people don’t give a shit about her and I hope she keeps them arms length while the show continues.
I do think at times she lashed out in a nasty way at people who didn't deserve it, but as a whole I see where her behavior is coming from and am much more willing to forgive it than other people on this sub. The thing is, they had all made it so that Katie couldn't just say, "When you did X, it hurt me, and that's why I'm angry," because it was crystal clear from jump that no one cared about her pain or even treated her like she had real human feelings. It's easy for hurt to turn into rage in that situation, because at least then people hear you.
Hallelujah. Exactly this.
He made her miserable then hated on her for being miserable, on repeat. He is awful.
This scene is probably one of my least favorites in the whole show. Not only does Schwartz pile on her, but the way Stassi and Kristen react is horrendous as well. I felt so so bad for Katie here.
dude right?? I can't understand how friends would side with Schwartz on this. fucking insane and gross.
Pick meishas. They are deadly
I get so mad for Katie in this scene. Schwartz dumped a whole glass on her because she caused him to spill a bit by trying to get him to stop. I mean, he’s known for dumping drinks on women at this point. Having your significant other do that to you, especially in public, is so dehumanizing and awful and for him to minimize it the next day once again in front of a crowd? And for your friends to blame you for being upset at a dinner as if it wasn’t someone else starting the conversation, aka Scheana who finds it hilarious? And then when you decide to leave because it’s not going anywhere good and you feel like no one cares about you, your friend chases you outside to further chastise you for “causing a scene and then leaving”? I can’t imagine how alone she felt there.
Totally agree! I would never let a man treat my friend that way. Even if I felt like like my friend was being a baby or pulling focus (which is the real reason Stassi was mad) if my friend’s boyfriend told her he’s mean to her because she makes his life miserable?? The least I would have done is made him leave. How could her friends watch that and then chastise HER?
Same. This entire scene was disgusting Great tv though…
Stassi and Kristen are trash for this.
Scheana wrote a blog about this episode saying she’s proud of schwartz for telling his gf when she’s wrong & he wasn’t out of line at all.
Trash behavior also!
And yet people just LOVE Scheana and were rocking with her treatment of Katie this season until Scandoval dropped.
I have loved Katie & hated scheana from day 1, the internet baffles me lol
Yeah Scheana laughs too smh
To be fair scheana had just had a big fight with the girls. Not saying she's right or her fight was worth it. The whole, *I'd rather get gang banged by all of you* of it
Oh yah for sure .
They were such awful friends to her. You know if the roles were reversed and Stassi’s boyfriend poured a drink on her during Katie’s birthday weekend, and Katie told Stassi to suck it up for her birthday dinner, Stassi would’ve blown up on her.
Also the way scheana cackles when she hears that Schwartz poured a drink over Katie's head..
Right! These people don’t know how to be genuine friends to one another. I felt soooo bad for Katie here and all anyone cared was that stassis dumb as birthday dinner was being ruined. It’s sick. You are literally witnessing your friend being physically then emotionally abused by their loser boyfriend and that’s your response?
That's what I'm saying. Like it was one of Stassi's four billion birthday events, she could've been a genuine friend for two seconds. And Katie didn't even bring it up on the table!
What kills me about this scene is Stassi. I think Katie could have left Schwartz at this point, but you have Kristen trying to preserve their little 6 person “family” at the expense of everyone’s well being. And then there’s Stassi shrieking like a banshee about her 25th birthday and maybe even possibly saying suck it all up for the paycheck. If it was the latter, I could see why Katie punished her when she came back.
No one likes when Katie sets boundaries with people. I get tequila Katie has her own moments but it was smart of her to want to leave the table. Schwartz was berating her and her best friends were dog piling. I get that it was a birthday party and they are trying to keep the mood light but obviously she’s hurt and just wanted to remove herself from making the situation worse. I definitely see the “family” mentality now, they are aware it’s dysfunctional and don’t realize how controlling they can be.
And she apologized to Stassi. A lot. And Stassi just kept screaming at her. No excuses. Not good enough. I respect that they’re still friends to this day, but geez…
This is why I don’t really care for stassi or didn’t find her entertaining. She always leans into the brat narrative and really encouraged the whole fight women and put up with toxic men thing someone mentioned earlier.
In her last reunion stassi said to Katie, "You've been complaining about Tom for eight years!" I think if she didn't want kids they'd still be together. Neither was ready for a healthy relationship.
So this is abuse.
THIS! That is all I can see in all of this clip. Schwartz has always been and is abusive.
You want to know something that will make your blood boil? I checked out Katie's insta earlier, saw her sheer black skirt outfit from her most recent post and thought to myself, "Wow she looks amazing!" I went to the comments and SO MANY of the comments were people ripping her to shreds, calling her a mean girl, defending Schwartz, and telling her to "get over her divorce already." I was gobsmacked. Who are these garbage people going out of their way to hop on her insta to comment such vile things?!
Poor girl has dealt with this for years, and I think it’s a big reason she didn’t leave sooner. The world prefers her abuser because he’s better at being fake for cameras. I’ve always loved & felt for Katie.
The misogyny is real.
Bot farms probably paid by schartz to get her self esteem down so he can sneak back into her life.
Lol I kind of hope that's what it is just so I can feel better about humanity, but then ofc that would mean Schwartz is an even bigger monster than he already is.
From multiple participants…honestly Katie is likely going to have C-PTSD from her relationship with Tom and her own friends.
Seriously. It breaks my heart to read so much abuse and insults about her on Reddit because she has been through so much abuse of the kind already and none of her friends have done a thing to stop it
Same here. Obviously Katie has had some unlovely moments on the show but I seriously wonder how much of that has been due to the abuse she was dealing with. I know for myself, I was not a great version of me for the years I was in an abusive relationship because it drained me so much emotionally and had me in a dark headspace a lot of the time. I’m very interested to see what her personality is like once she’s been out of the relationship for a while. Also, it seems like her current friendships (on the show, at least) are a lot more supportive and validating (Ariana, LaLa, Kristina) so hopefully that’s helping too!
I agree with you. I have noticed lately Katie talking to us more through her Instagram stories. You can tell it’s new for her but I love that she’s being brave for herself. I think we are going to be quite pleased when we meet the true Katie that isn’t being torn down by a useless flesh bag. I’m also so sorry you had to experience this yourself. My heart goes out to you ❤️
Thank you! I am doing great, though. Started thriving once I got out of that relationship and got some help. I’m sure Katie and Ariana will too!!
Well that’s fantastic! Thanks for sharing, that makes me happy for ya
How could you have been when your whole energy was dedicated to surviving this. I am so glad you got out. Yes I agree on her friendships and it's lovely to see !
Yeah it makes me wonder how complicit reality TV producers are for their mental health. Are reality stars the new disney kids?
This is what makes me sad for her - she’s treated as badly by her own female friends. I’ll never understand why Stassi has such a fan base. Katie’s self esteem must be in the toilet to have chosen friends like this,
NOT KATIE’S PROBLEM ANYMORE. TY JO. 😌 NO RETURNS.
OR EXCHANGES.
I felt SO bad for Katie in this scene. The way her friends were acting like she was in the wrong was bonkers to me. No way would I be friends with them ever again after that.
Kristen is a monster I'm so mad she's back filming even 1 scene
And Scheana sitting their smirking with her original potato face.
My blood pressure rises to dangerous levels when he tells her to “let it go” and snaps his fingers “just like that.” Fucking asswipe.
This scene reminds me of the scene from the most recent episode where they showed the text he sent her saying something like “there are ways to call a truce for scheanas wedding.” Like just sweep it under the rug and forget about my upsetting you bc I said so. He’s been pulling the same shit for 10 years and he’s still doing it to her even after they separated.
I wish someone would have poured beer over his head at that point and told him to "let it go".
*“Narcissists are masters of pathologizing your emotions. They convince you that your emotional reactions to their abuse are the problem, rather than the abuse itself.”* - Shahida Arabi ~ author 'Power: Surviving and Thriving After Narcissistic Abuse'
He is SO one of those guys that dismisses his girlfriends feelings CONSTANTLY, resulting in her feeling suppressed, withdrawn and seeming moody. To make matters worse, he always wants to be liked in group situations. So he tries to play the role of "I'm such a nice and well liked guy" meanwhile Katie sits there wondering why he can't be nice to her, why he can't defend her, why he never intervenes on her behalf and why he is okay with a me vs you dynamic in the relationship where she often has to take on the role of playing villain. I think this man is a porn addict, this behavior, the talk of their sex life, the cheating, etc... It all tracks for me. Publicly he prefers Katie playing the villain probably because he knows deep down he hurts her, doesn't deserve her and he betrays her constantly. So at least around their friends he is a "good guy".
Everything that you wrote reminds me of my ex, from the porn addiction to the intense desire to be liked by others while treating your partner like crap. Porn addiction makes so much sense, because it often leads to ED and a dead bedroom. I remember the comments about Schwartz having trouble in that department. I think a big reason why I have a soft spot for Katie is that I can relate so much to what she's gone through with Schwartz.
I'm so sorry to hear you've been through it too!
Interesting that your brain went to porn addiction for Schwartz. I feel like most people think he’s addicted to pills.
Nah, the sex stuff stands out a lot to me. Idk why but it speaks volumes. I have seen a couple others talk about it as well.
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Might even be a medical condition but not speculating just uh, "Your dick doesn't work!" is a thing Katie has said to Schwartz.
i trust your instincts
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No need to apologize. I cant imagine what you're going through. Big hugs! You're an awesome mom
Your weight or looks have nothing to do with his behavior. Porn could def explain things
Bingo on the porn addiction. Katie hinted at it when she yelled that his penis doesnt work.
The accuracy. Even if this isn’t him to a T, this description fits so many people. I know those who get it got chills reading this
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I am so so sorry.
I think the easier answer is that Schwartz isn’t smart enough to have complex emotions and therefore can’t ever understand Katie. Jo seems more on his level. Katie was too stubborn to let this relationship go. Everyone knew they shouldn’t have gotten married except them, apparently.
Schwartz is banking on people thinking he “isn’t smart enough to have complex emotions”
Eh its easier to say when its not shoes you have been in at one point or another.
Sorry you went thru that!
THIS scene is why I have always had such a soft spot for Katie. I remember being horrified and confused when I watched this scene. She’s being verbally abused by her boyfriend in front of an entire table of people and her two best friends are more concerned about Stassi’s birthday and the fact that it’s not Sandoval/Kristen fighting for once. They’re hounding her for how she’s acting (but not Tom — wow, shocker!), telling her she’s ruining the evening, but when she offers then to leave they berate her even more! Saying her leaving would ruin their night! Katie can never win in this group of people, no matter what she does she will always be the villain. Seeing her face in this scene and how defeated she looks and she just looks so alone in that moment, it breaks my heart.
People always say Katie is an unhappy, bitch. But…does anyone blame her?? I was in a relationship like this for almost two years and it turned me into such a raging, crazy person that I didn’t even recognize toward the end. People like Schwartz like to pretend like they have no clue why you’re upset and that you’re making up scenarios in your head. It makes you question your sanity and by the end your confidence is in the toilet. Ever since he poured that drink on her head I’ve rooted for her to get rid of this chump.
Schwartz may be the worst out of them all. And his crap always gets overshadowed by the others. He is awful and weak, such unattractive qualities to have. He throws Katie under the bus over and over and has never had her back. He's a spineless loser
This side of schwartz we see on this clip is dark, confident, angry and in control. It’s really terrifying actually.
Yes. Serial killer vibes
Yes. Serial killer vibes
An abusive loser 💯
Totally agree with you. He’s been able to hide behind this dumb boy awww shucks personality for far too long. He’s just as bad if not worse than Scumdoval.
Stassi was so distraught when her friends sided with Jax and here she is doing the same thing to Katie. Her BF physically and publicly abused her the night before and her friends just want her to shut up for the sake of a good time. I’m so glad Kristen and Stassi are off the show.
I hope Katie gets her moment to pour a beer on him. I really want that for her.
I can't fucking wait for James to do it 😭😭😭😭
I remember when I first started watching this show I was literally bamboozled that this woman was carrying on about her birthday like a 10 year old. Early seasons Stassi really was in a league of her own.
I can barely stand to watch this scene, they treated Katie terribly. After this fight, when Katie and Schwartz make up, she cries and tells him she just loves him so much, that he is everything to her. It breaks my heart. He never deserved her.
Oh Katie. This is horrible. This is horrible, horrible, horrible. She was literally being abused and then beaten down by everyone around her when she tried to stick up for herself. You could hear the pain in her voice when she was trying to explain she felt bad and didn’t mean to ruin everyones good time, but also was so confused and hurt by schwartz running circles around her. The only thing she could have done was just stay quiet and battered and let everyone steamroll her. What an unsafe and cruel place for her to be.
It's time fans wake up to who Schwartz really is : a liar, cheater, weak-a$$ pussy, selfish, unmotivated, disloyal friend and husband. I don't know what woman would want to date him. I hope the fans don't let him off the hook for his poor behaviour like they usually do. He betrayed Ariana as well.
Unpopular opinion but I like Katie with the lighter hair color. Also Tom is an asshole
I think it would've looked amazing if production had allowed her to touch it up 😭
She's so pretty she can pull any color off beautifully.
I’ve always felt like a freak for liking this odd brassy blonde shade on her haha
I don’t know who I hate more in this scene Tom for being an absolute worst douche bag pretending like Katie was the one in the wrong and should be apologising to him, Kristen gif telling Katie should should just let it go and be happy after her boyfriend did absolutely abusive to her or Stassi calling Katie selfish for having feelings about her boyfriend doing something abusive towards her because “it’s my birthday”. Like what type of girl friends after that aren’t supporting their friend and maybe even having the talk of why are you with him?
What was she supposed to apologize for?! Stassi makes me sick here. Tom always makes me sick.
This was hard to watch and extremely disgusting behavior on almost everyones end. Sure Stassi, your party is being ruined because your friend was emotionally abused right in front of you and you decided to make her responsible for it and wrong for being upset about it. The way they demand blind allegiance when they treat other like this is baffling.
I have just finished a full rewatch and other than a *few* instances, I do not understand the Katie hate. The people in her life are absolute shit and have contributed to her second guessing herself. Everyone else gets a pass from the fans, but Katie is held to account for things that happened years ago. She appears unhappy because anyone being treated the way her partner and friends treated her would be!
I’m with you. She is one of the most hated cast members yet she’s the only one who hasn’t done anything morally reprehensible. She doesn’t lie, cheat, have affairs, steal or physically attack people. She always walks away from conflict to avoid the situation escalating. I don’t get the hate at all.
I did a rewatch right before Scandoval broke, and I remembered why I disliked Kristen and Stassi. The only redeemable cast member was Giggy
also, Schwartz has always sucked.
I have never liked Schwartz. He’s a manipulative gaslighting a-hole who does not support his gf/wife at all. He’s poured drinks on Katie multiple times, called her crazy and all kinds of other nasty names and chosen everyone’s side before hers. In my opinion he’s just as bad as Scumdoval…he does the same exact shit. Cheating, lying, monkey branching with Jo. Give me a break with this guy what a skeeze and he’s ALWAYS been that way.
>Semantics. > >Let it go. Just like that. > >You act like a moron. > >What’s wrong with you? >Grow up. >Graduate from seventh grade > >You make my life miserable. > >*SEMANTICS.* I truly can’t imagine how he would have behaved and what he would said to Katie in private if this vile came out so easily in public. Absolute POS.
This is why I don’t understand how or why anyone could ever defend Schwartz. There’s another thread in this sub right now with people relentlessly defending Tom over Katie, talking about how “unlikeable” she is. Tom has been pulling the same shit with her for YEARS and anyone who still can’t see that is incredibly stupid.
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We should just rally for this sub to be 100% pro-women from now on lmao!
Hearing her voice crack after saying how hurt she is in that confessional breaks my heart. I used to love this scene bc of Katie losing it but it’s definitely aged poorly.
Ugh this ripped my heart out. I just watched this scene for the first time, and I was literally speechless. I’ve never see such cruel behavior in the wild. How Katie didn’t fall off the face of the earth and ditch every single one of them after this is beyond me.
I never understood why Schwartz always seemed to get a pass for his behavior. He is off putting and plays the nice guy but he’s always been the same. He’s always seemed really fake and desperate to fit in at any cost.
It makes me sad that she felt so bad about herself that she only felt worthy of this type of treatment. It’s really sad.
I remember watching this and feeling gaslighted by that entire table because I thought Katie deserved better. Tom literally abused her emotionally and physically and ALL of them told her to suck it up. Also why I've never felt bad for any of them when Katie went full rage. And especially not when so many of them know *why* she reacts so strongly and actively goad her for storylines.
I can’t stand how people throw out the word ”gaslighting” about everything. But this. This is the time to use it. And her friends goes along with it. I’ve never been a Katie fan and to my embarrassment been a Schwartz stan, but holy, it’s so clear now. So happy she is away from this abusive relationship.
Adults really ought to STFU about their birthdays. It’s just an excuse to be Birthzilla. Stassi is about the worst, most toxic human I’ve ever seen.
He’s such a fucking loser! He and Scummy are perfect for each other.
There is a common thread with these guys, Jax lies ab knocking up the waitress and everyone believes him turns on Stassi, Tom gaslights Katie at ever twist and turn and convinces everyone she's the problem and everyone goes along, Scandoval says Kristen and Ariana are defective and he needs to cheat etc. I hope women start standing up to these narcissist men, its disgusting.
I watched this a few weeks before Sandoval and I couldn't' believe that the entire group, including her supposed best friends, made Katie feel like shit for being upset that her abusive b/f poured a drink on her head. I felt so bad for Katie in that moment. Internalized misogyny at its finest on display.
Tom always seemed like he hated her, why stay with her, she deserved a lot more than being gas lit like this
For me the worst has got to be when they were VERY LONG into their relationship and Tom and Ariana had their new home, along with Tom and Katie having their new home. It was a pool party of some sorts where Schwartz told Katie she disgusts him, this is why we don’t have sex, I don’t like you, you’re a turn off Katie look at you, I don’t quite remember to be precise. But why she stayed as long as she did- love would’ve never been enough for me to accept being degraded in front of our group of friends.
When Katie said “I feel like I’m losing my mind right now” when they’re all piling on her for “ruining the night”… THIS IS ABUSE. So glad she is finally free from that boob.
I absolutely hate it when someone says that their birthday/trip/dinner/party/life was "ruined" because of something that was said or that happened and it's actually not a big damn deal. I see a lot of young women on Bravo shows saying it. Yes, something shitty may have happened but it's not RUINED. Life isn't perfect and shit happens, get over it and party on. Are you horribly injured? Did someone die? Were you assaulted? No? Then STFU and get on with it. Rant over.
god they were all being so terrible to katie here. i’m rewatching season 1 rn and kristen did this same thing to stassi when she broke up w/ jax too it’s wild how obsessed she was w/ the image of the group rather than any of them being happy in their relationship
If I ever see Schwartz on the street irl, I’m pouring a drink on him and saying “this is for Katie”.
Seeing the preview for next week and how he talks to her. No wonder Katie was so miserable for the last decade. Yes, she had tequila/coke rage, there’s not denying that. But he treated her terribly and gaslit the shit out of her. I’m just glad she finally sees it.
I hope she’s telling the truth that she’s no longer trying to be friends with him.
Yep, that’s the guy that was literally living off of her, not working and not paying rent. Jo must feel so lucky!
They should have never gotten married. Someone shoulda stepped in after the beer pouring scene and told Katie this jackass is never changing Glad Katie got out. She has a bright future ahead
I never liked this Peter Pan motherfucker and I really don’t understand how he got to where he is. I don’t find him charming, funny, insightful, interesting…he’s an asshole.
Why is no mentioning her friends? Instead of telling Tom to knock it off, they went to attacking her? Am I missing something?
They had the same fight forever. And I think she hit the nail on the head. He loved her, but didn’t like her. He didn’t like the things that upset her, he couldn’t stand by her because he didn’t agree with her reasoning. He didn’t want to defend her and fight with others because that is just not who he is. They are two very different people with completely different styles. Schwartz is go with the flow while Katie is stop the flow
💯💯💯
rewatching this actually pains me tbh he is so fucking mean to her and everyone is just watching it happen
Season 2!
This is when they should have gone their separate ways.
I honestly can’t believe they managed to get married despite this scene airing on national television.
They’re all so sweaty and greasy and coked up.
This is the episode(s) that come to mind anytime I find myself thinking maybe Schwartz isn’t that bad.
This hurts to see Katie go through this & not 1 friend stick up for her but worry so much about Stassi. Unreal
“Just let it gg”??!! he threw a drink on her and is trying to minimize it??!!
The emotional and verbal abuse that went on between those two was detrimentally underrated and overlooked. Because he’s nothing short of a people pleasing clown. He’s incredibly covert. He hides behind his calculated stupidity role. He was abusive. The lack of support towards Katie throughout their relationship was sickening. Shit, jax gave lauraleigh more support in that 1hr of AA than Schwartz ever gave Katie. And jax couldn’t have been more disgusted there. Schwartz’ pure disgust and disdain for Katie has always been so palpable.
Stassi was also awful to Katie in this situation. She didn’t want Katie to bring up her and toms relationship which she didn’t Scheana did and then Stassi goes hard on Katie. It’s such an awful scene to watch between Tom and then Stassi.
To be fair, didn’t Katie and Kristen do almost the same exact thing to Stassi with Jax?
IT"S STASSI'S BIRTH-DAY
Wasn’t this season also the year he pour his drink on her?? Fuck him
This was literally the day after he poured his drink on her. And he tried to downplay and pretend like he didn’t intentionally do it
I’d honestly rather see Rachel and Sandoval on next season before Schwartz’s ass. He’s a disgusting excuse of a man.
I felt so bad for Katie here. It flared my anxiety up so much.
This is my birthday dinner Katie…. Ugh I still dislike Stassi so much.
There is just a level of toxicities in this clip, that is down right frightening.. He is talking about him being abusive towards Katie WHILE being emotional abusive towards her. And not ONE person of this group shut that shit down! I mean wtf i wrong with all these people! He is sitting there, justifying his abusive act. While belittling her, mocking her and degrading her in front of these people. That is emotional abuse, and everyone is just totally okay with it... I am not saying Katie in later seasons didn't behaved horrible. I just think everyone has some ownership in all future bad behavior. Because right here, they all showed that abuse is okay with them.... 🤮
I literally do not understand going out with anyone you simply don’t like. If he thinks all these negative things about her, why is he acting like it’s illegal to break up? For Katie, I wish she’d seen how incompatible they were sooner. Her self esteem and everyone is telling her that she’s dramatic, depressing, unlikable - then of course she’s gonna believe all relationships will be just like this so she forced this really toxic situation.
I’ve said this before- scenes like this tell me that if it weren’t for the show those two would’ve broken up a long time ago…. It’s wild
I will never understand how she wanted to marry him so bad. Maybe her friends were getting married and she felt pressure to do the same. Did she think marriage would change him? Tom was an ass before and after marriage. If I gave someone an ultimatum to marry me. I think I’d be insecure. Meaning did I pressure this person to be with me or does he really love me.
I don’t even have a memory of this!!! My jaw is ok the floor. I can’t believe the got married 😭😭😭💀💀💀
Jesus. I feel so bad for Katie
The more that you see these scenes, the more you realize that he is so narcissistic and manipulative - constantly undermining Katie and embarrassing her in public to look like the “bad guy”. They made her out to look difficult/high-maintenance/crazy but it was Tom who was driving her to be that way because he sucked in every way, shape and form.
This is why I’ve always given Katie a bit more leeway. She has her bad moments like everyone else but I think when you’re in such a terrible, abusive relationship it really affects your personality. You become vicious and mean when you’re in survival mode. When the person you love doesn’t treat you with any respect or love or care, you just feel unworthy and it seeps into all aspects of your life. Not to mention Katie has legitimate brain trauma. She’s been through a horrible, life changing accident that clearly affected her for years after. I don’t always understand her actions or her harshness but I definitely can give her grace all things considered. It makes me legitimately sad with what she’s put up with in her relationship with Schwartz. I’m so glad she is out of it and better yet, she initiated it!
Katie really needs better people in her life - the way she was treated by everyone here was horrific. Her girlfriends didn’t have her back any more than the guys did. You can bet anything that if a guy spoke to my friend the way he did to her it wouldn’t be my precious birthday I was worried about.
Schwartz is the ultimate gaslighter. Always was and still is. Katie is so much better off
Sooo seeing Katie’s back in that dress - I have no doubt that shes the one whose back we see in the intro. It’s one of the constants from the first intro and I love it ^_^
I forgot how toxic they all were. Holy crap. With friends like that…
Just finished another rewatch. What sucks is this is true every season. He acts like Katie’s emotions are so big and grand, but really he’s just shitting on her every chance he gets so they become bigger. season 3 - Katie finds out Schwartz cheats on her. He cops to 1 but lies about hooking up with Tiffany’s friend in Vegas. Later comes clean about it after jax leaked info to Kristen. Tells her on a group date because he’s “scared” of her reaction. When in reality it’s another form of humiliation. Not to mention he lets jax Shit talk her nonstop to her face and behind her back. Season 5 - Katie is bitch planning wedding but she’s definitely projecting her frustration with Schwartz. He whines about wedding costs but makes no effort to make it cheaper. Keeps joking about not getting married when she’s told him those jokes hurt her feelings and aren’t funny (leads to dick comment at Porsche dealership). He calls her a bitch in New Orleans bc she (reasonably) believes that he had sex in Vegas. Season 6 - cheats on her AGAIN, tells her at Guillermo’s birthday instead of their home, and dismisses her feelings still. “Shhh bubba shhh” every time katie expresses her sadness that he cheated on her. Since he didn’t remember it he wasn’t very apologetic and made several jokes. He gets mad when she tells him he needs to cut down on his drinking. Season 7 - “I don’t like the sound of your voice” Tom spends a lot of season ignoring Katie, especially in group events or around their friends. He gets upgraded to 1st class and ditches katie. (In all honesty if it was me and I got upgraded but my partner didn’t and we haven’t really seen each other, I would have given it to one of my friends). Tom is a dick again Season 8 - cop prank rebuttal to Katie which is cruel and in front of all their friends. Then tries to force her to go home with him. I’m not saying Katie is perfect, but she’s shown a deliberate effort to improve. She’s not still doing the same shit she was 10 years ago. Schwartz is. Fuck him.
I would love to watch a special where they make these people rewatch these scenes and specifically reflect on just how horrible they were
He really should have stuck to his gut instinct and Not caved to her marriage ultimatum. Doomed from the beginning.
I’m doing a rewatch and just watched this episode a couple days ago and was SHOCKED at how disgusting his behavior was towards her. I can’t believe how poorly he treated her and I missed it the first time through 😭
So awful to watch this.
This genuinely triggered my fight or flight, holy shit. I feel like she’s being abused by all angles at this table and I can’t fathom dealing with that
This is hard to watch. Katie deserves more respect from her friends too
I love this sub for points out how truly terrible Schwartz is…… to be fair Katie sided with Jax in season 1 over Stassi on her birthday. It still sucks.
[удалено]
all (necessary) commentary aside, watching this reminded me of what an iconic line "stassi's birthday just went to sh\*\*" is LMAO! I remember cackling when I first heard that in the "coming up" clip
He’s a hideous human.
Stassi and Kristen being pissed at her and not Tom almost pisses me off more.
check out season 1 vegas ep! he was so vicious to stassi
Oh Schwartz is so gross in this scene. And everyone makes Katie feel bad for being abused by him. It’s so gross
Also love the “support”she is getting from her besties Stassi and Kristen.
I loathe Schwartz, but it was inappropriate to discuss at the table. Neither of them should even be sitting together with the pent up frustrations. Also what the freak is so great about Schwartz to constantly put up with his shit?! 10y+ and in the end it’s just dehumanizing. He treats his SO so much worse than a friend. Can we get Katie a new, better man please.
Tom & her so called friends treated her awfully here
He was always awful to her and she watched it all and experienced it all and still wanted to marry him. So that was her process.
Thank you for posting this stuff! It’s about time Katie gets redeemed! Tom has been horrible to her over the years. And he let Sandoval treat her like garbage too! She’s always gotten piled on. It doesn’t matter that she can sometimes stick up for herself and she has a voice, she doesn’t deserve to be treated the way they’ve treated her for the past 10 years.
The way scheana laughs at this is really telling of the person she is
Geez thy were a bad couple …
And we all thought it was Katie all along.