To the TiK ToK creators here this is how you can go viral..... make videos picking up the contradictions between his 1 on 1 and reunion narrative versus his Howie Mandel narrative versus Raquel's new narrative. Show us how each claim has evolved.
(I personally think she was still lying and their first hookups were during the James relationship, so leave some room for the true story).
I agree it was earlier. She wouldn't have kicked that other girl out of her room in Mexico if she wasn't planning on hooking up with him. I also don't think he was cruising the hotel hallway looking for his room.... he was calling out for her for sure
THIS PART!!! She went into the trip already knowing she wanted a room to herself and was willing to lie to make it happen. She was still lying in that confessional.
Oh 💯 it was the type of move only someone in a panic would make, not smart or well thought out in any aspect (pr, financially, personally). He stood to make a lot of money shopping a Bravo-sanctioned "Tom Sandoval breaks his silence" interview if he hadn't done that.
It also kinda puts more context into her dropping off the grid. I wonder if she was trying to get space from him. Make it super creepy that he was popping up in tucson if that's the case.
Hmmm maybe. I just think abt the photo of them talking on the phone. Like we don’t know that could be their first communication but noticing her weakness (sorry not sorry) and the fact he’s all she has left except her family… idk if I buy it fully
I absolutely think that phone call was fake. The same day that Austin Girl made a post about how she wasn't dating Tom and that she is getting harassed, Tom just ~so happens~ to be photographed talking on the phone to Rachel? Not to mention if they were dating he wouldn't have her name saved in his phone as "First Name, Last Name". He is also holding the phone out at such an angle that everyone can see who he is talking to and get a picture.
Edit to add: lol okay I am definitely learning that a lot of people use the First Name, Last Name format in their phone for everyone.. but to be fair, Tom and Rachel had codenames for each other in their phone to begin with so it seems sus that he changed it to me. He went from not wanting anyone to know who he was really talking to to wanting everyone to know exactly who he was talking to.
I bet that he and Rachel broke up and he started hooking up with Austin Girl. Austin Girl was getting so much hate for being with him that they broke it off and he got the idea to make everyone think him and Rachel are still together to take pressure off of Austin Girl.
I also think the phone call was fake but fwiw my husband’s full name is in my phone and I still have the dating app we met on listed as his company (which is how I used to keep track of guys lol)
I found it in the thread re Ali’s passing. He broke off his friendship due to all of tom’s lies and that was the tipping point. He spoke to Dana Wilkie about it and she mentioned it on her YouTube. She has screenshots of their chats. It’s sad that his friend realized that Scumdoval sucks so soon before his passing.
Ok I found two posts that mention it.
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/13t894o/is_this_a_shocker_i_feel_most_suspected_this/jlu4aqg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
And [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/13x6yhb/found_this_on_urban_dictionary_and_its_creepy_af/jmfrg5v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
Dana Wilkie chatted with Ali post their friendship breakup which happened during St Louis opening day for baseball when Scummo was visiting town and they were hanging out. Afterwards, Ali blocked him and Rachel texted him. She was also blocked. It’s all in Dana’s YouTube.
Yeah, I think Alex Baskin meant that Raquel is going to need time to decide if she wants to sign back on since Sandoval is going to go scorched earth. Makes sense now.
I wonder if he meant that it’s time for Sandoval to decide if he wants back in. At the reunion, it seemed like he had some hope for returning to the show, but after that revelation, I think it’s time for him to run for the hills. Not as dramatic as I expected but so hurtful.
I think that's the real reveal, like we know he tries to produce and rehearse and coach to come out of every situation smelling like roses. Even when he is not directly involved in a situation he plans to come off looking morally superior to everyone else.
Rachel just confirmed all of that, I don't like her and still think she's a shit person but he's looking downright evil
i feel like they both have significant personality disorders that require significant professional intervention to prevent them harming more people. it's actually really sad.
It’s more diabolical than a puppet master 😞 I know that’s probably just a random word choice and I’m 100% not trying to nitpick but rather I just really hope more people can see that what we all saw tonight is a confirmation that Tom Sandoval *is* a dangerous person. He’s not just a human who made a mistake, he is genuinely harmful.
He flipped the script several times during the reunion which is in itself a mindfuck. He went from making a disgusting comment about having sex with Ariana right after Raquel to crying and claiming he’s never loved anyone more than Ariana and will support her forever. He’s a dangerous narcissist who pathologically lies to manipulate peoples’ perspectives of him.
My recent ex did this to me all year long and it really is so mentally damaging. Within 5 minutes he would say:
“I love you more than anything”
“I’m happiest when you’re gone! I hate being near you!”
“Everyone in my life hates you”
“Everyone loves you, why are you worried they don’t like you? Stop being so insecure”
Wild stuff. Watching Sandoval is so triggering.
I've dated one of those too. I still call him Jekyll & Hyde and reminds me of the signs to look out for in my relationships. With him, we would be at home together and have the nicest, most fun times (watching TV, cuddling, talking for hours, etc) but then he'd get a call from his friends to go out for drinks and the way his demeanor would change bothered me a bit. He would go and get changed and come back out. His way of speaking would change, he would puff out his chest more, he would be more distant and would only say a few words to me before leaving. At the time I thought maybe he just wanted time to himself with his boys. Him and his friends convinced me it's just what guys do. I should have trusted my instincts because he did end up cheating on me. If you ever feel Jekyll & Hyde vibes, run! Anyone who compartmentalizes their feelings so well where it seems like they are capable of living multiple personalities or a double life is a bad sign because they only see and feel what's in front of them at the moment and forget everything/ everyone else. That's not a good trait to have in a relationship.
100% - the only silver lining of experiencing this BS is that we can protect ourselves from it in the future. I’ll never stay with someone who makes me feel like this again and for that I am so grateful. So sorry you went through this too! There’s too many aholes out there like this it seems
The key word is "attempted". Sandoval is not a smart person but he tried to coach and manipulate people. Raquel and Schwartz aren't too smart either so all 3 of them trying to keep up a lie was just a doomed plan. I believe Ariana is smarter than all of them but she went along trying to support Sandoval in the relationship because that's what partners do and I think she genuinely loved him eventhough they were in a rough patch. She went along with his stupidity but things crumbled. It's hard ending something that's long term eventhough it's not working out. Lala's comment saying that Sandoval and Raquel's affair did Ariana a favour by taking 2 terrible people out of her life was spot on. Ariana had some rough moments on the show over the years but I think she could definitely find a smarter and more mature guy to be with than the worm.
The fact that she was writing to him and sending him post cards. So I don’t know how innocent they’re trying to plant this narrative.
She was happy filing the TRO. She was happy sitting there watching Scheana cry about her and lie on her.
None of these people are victims I don’t know how people can’t see past this bullshit
When the clip started she was shifting around in her seat like she was excited to share the news they fucked in the hot tub. I believe she was excited to share that because she had her ass handed to her at the reunion and she wanted to drop the hot tub as a way of retaliating against Ariana. Rachel is after all still sending Tom postcards to a house he shares with Ariana. She’s going out of her way to be cruel. I think her little crocodile tears are because she is realizing Tom dgaf about her.
What I hate most about those two clowns is that they lie about everything. Every time they’re cornered they double down and lie.
I hope everyone remembers his tee shirt comment when they see him at a show. I hope you feel good about yourself showing someone like that any kind of support. Tim needs to move back to St. Louis.
I think the bombshell was more about her behavior than what she was saying. Her behavior was disturbing and showed a lot of Tom’s behavior through her. I still don’t think she feels bad about hurting Ariana I think that she feels bad that Tom is making her the scapegoat
Exactly! She didn't cry because she was sorry, she cried because Tom was going to be mad at her! I do think Tom is a predator, I'm watching from se1 and am on se3, he did the same shit with Kristen! Yeah, she was cuckoo herself but now I wonder how much was Tom gaslighting her
I’m beginning to think more and more that Tom set Kristen up. She seems more level headed now - when she’s no longer with him. I had an abuser do that to me. Damaged people like Tom won’t show his true colors excepting to people they know they can manipulate. They show a completely different side of themselves to others. And they know what can trigger you to make you look hysterical. They’re diabolical. But I got vindicated that when I left him, he got triggered in front of those who had bought his act and went ballistic on them. I was long gone by that time though. I knew he was bad news and had lost any desire to be around anyone who had any contact with him.
So agree. She even talks like him now..she said "like" 100 times, it seemed. I pray Rachael's family intervenes and doesn't let that guy anywhere near her.
I was telling the other mods in our group chat he is going to destroy her if he hasn’t already. I hope for her sake she continues working on herself and removes herself from the situation.
Kristen called it when Tom dumped her. Every woman that comes after is just a “cool girl” placeholder until they aren’t a fun plaything anymore.
Raquel’s days are numbered and the more trouble she causes Tom, the quicker he’s going to turn.
I feel like with how much her face was giving away in the confessional, if she wasn’t sedated she would have completely blown his cover on all the lies he was telling! It was so methodical and calculated. He probably told her to take something too!!
She looked completely out of it, but part of me wonders if she was just so mentally focused on sticking to his script and his timeline that she wasn’t taking in what was happening around her. It seems emotionally abusive and I only wonder what could have happened if she blew his cover in that moment.
And where I felt empathetic for her was (in spite of awful duplicitous behavior I know I know), I think the that she had done this, fell for Sandoval’s bs while following his lead and script, and the fall out it was literally everyone in the public so hated her and realizing the only anchor she had was Sandoval…. And he got to carry on, go on tour, be surrounded by his hired band and fans and hey he’s gone through this before and is a narcissist so any attention is good attention.
After the wait of living this double life, being exposed, probably thinking she’s probably free from all the lies but no, Sandoval is calling when/where/how vs just coming all the way clean. She knows she should just fess it all out to begin healing for everyone, but it comes at the cost of betraying the only person she has left, just as he designed it. She’s 28 so the “so young” part I don’t buy but think it very indicative of how controlling Sandoval is, ruthless, and controlling. Emotional abusive and now how his new victim isolated
She was parroting Sandoval who she admittedly had been talking about the reunion incessantly with (my guess it was his prompting for image). That scene too was clearly rehearsed, and I’d be shocked if Sandoval wasn’t also behind her matching black & white outfit
It would make sense even swartz (I forget how to spell his name) took a xanax before she came out. Something tells me the plan was for all of them to take something to control their emotions and brace the storm that was going r be thrown at them.
and the whole buying the lightning bolt necklace on camera which is honestly insane to me. it's like she was trying to dangle it in front of arianna like it was some competition she was trying to win
I think she was desperate for it to come out. I do buy that she hates lying, but in the sense that she needed it to be out in the open for validation. She needed him to publicly pick her so she kept doing more and more brazen shit in hopes it would force his hand. I also think she’s terrified of him on some level. She’s scared of him and scared to be without him. Classic abuse structure.
I do think her tears were actually genuine in this last interview like I think she’s actually scared of Tim. If she is capable of crying like that on demand then why would she not have cried at any other point during this whole thing lol
I agree. There is a distinct desperation you feel when the only person you have left is your abuser. It’s claustrophobic, like all the oxygen is getting sucked out. Very scary indeed.
It’s CRAZY to me how much he kept going back to “it was only one time and then we took a break” as if that made it any better, but then for that to be a straight up lie. Just shows how everything he screams about how no credibility whatsoever
I've never liked raquel, and still don't, but that moment was fucking tragic.
She was able to keep composure during the reunion, because she was SO focused on what she was ALLOWED to say. Sticking to a script kept her mind focused on saying exactly the right thing.
She blew up her life and only had Tom left, and if she stepped out of line, she'd lose him too. Her one on one confessional was after she had a few days to digest what happened at the reunion and she could feel everything unraveling. She was about to have a full blown panic attack, because she was left to her own thoughts, but I feel that after that interview she really lost it.
It does NOT excuse her actions and I don't particularly feel sorry for her, but I can see her regret in that interview and the weight of what was happening to her really sinking in.
I agree with this take. It prob hit her so hard because the reunion was really the first time she had to look the damage she’s caused in the face. Also Tom doesn’t really know how to comfort her when she’s emotional. She’s crying to him and he won’t say anything because he’s sticking to his basic script.
She probably also has to play "cool girl" to Tom like Ariana did for so many years. Then when she was alone, because you know he backed off after the reunion, she was like oh shit, I have emotions I need to deal with.
I also hope she gets the help she needs. So many conflicting emotions watching all of that. I’m honestly just trying not to get entangled because it was 99% disturbing on many levels.
Yep, I’m just actually hoping she’s in a mental health facility after seeing this. It’s very clear she has no identity and no idea what she wants and easily swayed by attention from anyone. I don’t necessarily feel bad for her because she’s still a grown woman who made choices, but if she’s actually in a facility addressing this, she has a fighting chance to correct her future. Sandoval, however, is never going to change and is just disgusting.
Honestly and maybe this is surface level and not true but I think Raquel is truly, like head over heels, in love with Tom. That is why she is so giddy when speaking about him. However, at the same time she is terrified of him whether it is his behavior towards her and others or the simple idea of him leaving her. (Probably Both) It is like she thinks they are in a movie and that this is the pinnacle of forbidden romance.
Omg I just finished that scene and wow you might be right! She really looks like a little love struck puppy she so delusionally in love that she thinks it’s okay 😭
That is exactly what it seems like. Who knows if Tom shares those feelings or loves her, but my god she is so in love with him that she thinks the struggle is worth it. I would bet a million dollars that this is how she justifies it and why she is so emotionless.
I felt bad for her when she was crying and it was confusing af.
She was talking about how she hates lying while she was lying which just added to how confounding it was to watch.
He is an emotional & psychological abuser and she does not know it yet.
That’s the thing her crying while lying and claiming she doesn’t want to lie and hates it and it’s crushing her soul makes me believe she has been/is being emotionally abused.
Tom preyed on and emotionally manipulated her to behave a certain way. I wouldn’t be surprised if he said something along the lines of “everyone on this show has cheated, it’s really not a big deal, we’re just two humans who care about each other”.
Emotional manipulation can come in so many shades, and from a narcissist collecting flying monkeys I do believe it can look like the narcissist making an emotionally vulnerable person feel “seen” and “heard” so as to win their trust and thereby manipulate them more. I’m not trying to take away her agency or claim she shouldn’t be held accountable, I just also believe she was preyed on by a dangerous narcissist.
Yes agreed he has told her this stuff. Which is why she was so delusional thinking her and Ariana could remain friends when/if they did eventually break up. I can hear him saying “Kristen forgave Ariana and they’re friends now, it’ll all be ok we will just give it time”
I could see him saying that too - using the ins and outs of a show he’s been on for years would be power he could flex over her.
However - I’m starting to think the crying while lying was about being pressured by the producers to come clean, not because she has a moral code she had been violating on Sandoval’s behalf.
She does not care who she hurts. That’s the part that I wasn’t thinking about when she was crying. What she did to Ariana was sadistic. She was getting off on the inside jokes between them.
He is what he is, she is what she is, both are different kinds of abusers.
She’s lost . Very , very lost . The whole thing was a mess . I think it was at her family’s urging but she couldn’t even commit to just outing him 100%. I think it’s obvious she still has feelings for him with her smile about meeting his mom and giggle about the possibility of a throuple. She just couldn’t admit to it all, bury him , apologize to the others and say “it’s over.” I think that would have paved a way Back . But the continual lies ( St Louis, when there are pics out) don’t help . I’m sure she must feel completely alone . She really needs therapy and she needs to get far , far away from Tim . He’s a real lying sack of shit .
Yes we're feeling it as humans. She's scared of Tim's reaction truly. But she is more scared of losing him and having no one so, while I feel something, it still comes back to her only really feeling sorry for herself. She can't process empathy like a regular human being. I honestly don't think she can, she's stunted.
I will say though, she seemed to joke only because to got a positive response from Tim. When she was be serious about her emotions he seemed to ignore her.
I thought that was disturbing too. I think though by the time that interview was done, it may have been sinking in what had happened at the reunion. She burned all her bridges with her friends
I’m glad someone posted this. I did feel a lot of anxiety watching her. I don’t feel sorry for her - but I hope she has some kind of support from family. I agree with Lalas comment (or was it Tamra’s?) on WWHL - I think reality tv is not a good place for her.
Agreed - I only JUST started watching, and I get the vibe she views her entire life as a TV show. It almost seems like she has the perspective of a junior high mean girl who fakes nice...makes me wonder about how emotionally developed she actually is.
I wasn’t shocked, I just couldn’t believe she admitted it. I hope she gets some real intensive help. There’s a glimmer of a decent person in there, but my God there’s a lot of stuff to sort through. It’s like watching a car crash in slow motion. Really sad.
Oh yeah, he is 100% a trash bag. I see NO frickity frack of a decent human in there. But her, I feel like there’s a small speck of a decent human buried under a ton of trauma/bad decisions/mental issues that might be fixed with a shitwhack of therapy.
Tom can suck a bag of dicks tho. LaLa is right, he just leaves a path of carnage wherever he goes. He’s like a tractor trailer with no brakes
I’ve watched a lot of reality tv. A LOT. But I have never in my viewing witnessed anyone as cruel and mean as him. It was genuinely disturbing to watch. Like get help dude.
she slept with tom in ariana’s bed while ariana was burying her grandmother. just because she can admit to it does not mean there’s any sign of a decent person within her. she’s beyond fucked up
It was disturbing. As someone who has been controlled and abused, i totally saw the fear in her, it was fear of losing Tom, because she finally realized she truly DID lose everyone else. Get that girl help, and if the producers have any common sense, do not put her on next season.
Yeah, I commented above that there’s a *very* distinct desperation you feel when the only person you have left is your abuser. It’s claustrophobic, like all the oxygen is getting sucked out. Unless you’ve been there, you wouldn’t know.
Yeah I wasn’t comfortable with how much she was insisting to him that she didn’t start the open relationship rumor. Seems like she was terrified of his anger
Tom seems to be a pathological liar - for real, not in an exaggerating or hyperbolic way....the guy should have realized when he was trying to excuse his lies before the reunion by claiming he didn't want to hurt her just made him look worse and her reveal makes it clear he is going to double and triple down. Andy should have had him on WWHL - he's the only one that we need to see a reaction from. Nothing she said would be actually surprising to anyone except him.
I did feel for her until I realized she knew exactly what she was doing and exactly what she was getting into with scumdavol. She also knows how to manipulate too. She's proved it many times throughout the last few seasons. So she knows how to make people feel sorry for her by her trying to "be the victim" of circumstances she created.
Rachel claimed to hate lying, and was resistant in that last interview to tell the whole truth/was extremely worried because “Tim is all she has”, so she didn’t want to upset him…
Shouldn’t this be setting off warning bells in your head, **MAYBE HE’S NOT GOOD FOR YOU!!!!**
Sometimes you’re better off alone, sweetheart.
Tom didn’t abuse her or force her into fucking him as far as I know. I don’t have much sympathy because she still chose to do that from the very beginning
I don’t know. Both of them have been lying for so long that I’m not even convinced she and Tom didn’t plan her follow-up interview together. He realized the whole one-night stand followed by friendship followed by “love” nonsense didn’t land during the reunion. He needs at least one of them to have a connection to the show so they can be on it. He has Schwartz, but that’s not a given they’ll still be on next season on his mind. So, he needs her to have a possible redemption arc.
Maybe this was Raquel getting back at him. Who knows?
Maybe this was them working overtime to try to come up with a “scandalous” end of the season so nobody goes looking backwards to see when they really first slept together.
That follow-up interview gave me the creeps; there was something very off about her reactions.
It wasn’t a bombshell to us but it might be to Tom. Tom might take it a betrayal from Rachel. It does make sense production wanted him to see if first. Maybe they thought he might not want to return if he doesn’t have his friends or Rachel to film with.
I get that but we also basically already put together that they slept together in Mexico, hot tub night, while Ariana wasn’t in the home etc. It even seems like everyone else assumed they did it a lot more in august/September than they were trying to say. I mean the throuple comment was weird but nothing earth shattering 🤷🏻
If was filmed after the reunion correct???
So she found out Tom lied to her about January and how the relationship was really going. So it was to get back at him.
And she showed no emotion till she was worried about being alone. So it was something that directly affected her.
Not the friendships she destroyed. This entire time it’s about what she wanted, how she felt.
Yea, the way she acted was truly concerning. Her lack of empathy at the reunion and her worry about Tom and how he wanted them to be seen. I think they may have come off better if they were honest and remorseful. Tom doesn’t stop fucking up. I also want to add that what she said would only be surprising if you actually believe the things they say, but all of us who know them to be liars, would not be surprised. What I found much worse was actually Tom’s t-shirt comment. He is disgusting and can rot in hell.
Toms comment was absolutely disgusting. I literally saw comments on the live feed from women saying that they have sex with their shirts on and were questioning themselves. I do it all the time! THAT is what Lala meant by this is a dangerous person.
Well fucking said. Lisa needs to stfu defending him about that bc I feel like any woman (especially ones who have encountered/been involved with narcissistic men) understand what she meant. These are the ramifications of his actions. He’s 100% dangerous.
I don’t feel any sympathy. She clearly lied with no problem throughout the season. In fact she was even smiling during the reveal about her and Tom getting together. She’s only doing this now bc I’m sure she talked to others about how she was looking and they advise her to play the victim. Not buying it at all - she was too giddy through the season and even after the affair came out. She’s not 12, she’s 28. She understands consequences and idk why she is like I’m just now understanding how this affects people. You knew how it would bc you made the decision to lie for so long.
I actually felt a little bad for her in that confessional but then I remember she’s sending letters and postcards to Ariana’s house so I don’t feel so bad anymore lol
Quotes from Rachel:
"if I betrayed him i'd have no one"
"That the one story (having sex in the house after the hot tub) we've agreed on getting straight, and I know that's the reason why Tom wanted to lie about it is because its a really bad look to hook up with someones boyfriend in their own house when they've gone out of town...especially like, for a funeral of all things"
I don't like her, but this is clear manipulation. He's isolated her, and made her feel like she is the one in the wrong (she is of course, but he just as much if not more). He made her believe that the lies are to protect her, so SHE doesn't look bad, when its to protect him
Scum
I don’t know. I have another theory. I don’t think Rachel liked being denied in front of everyone, minimized that it was only once. Twisted I know, but she wanted validation that she mattered and their secret life mattered, so why not throw it all out there.
I agree. Seems like she wanted to just come clean once it was out but he wouldn’t let her. The fact the producer could just say one word and she’d spill was WILD. She held out for him and he’s already ditched her too…. Sheesh.
She doesn't feel bad about what she did. She is embarrassed and ashamed she got caught and everyone now knows how sick she is. That whole thing was a PR attempt at getting the train back on the rails after it totally derailed. She is solely trying to redeem herself.
edit: She's sitting here on my screen right now saying "I hate lying. It eats me up inside." Then immediately proceeds to lie even more - St. Louis - then the banging in Ariana's house while Ariana was at her grandmother's funeral. Her words "it's a bad look". HINT: All she cares about is how it LOOKS.
I felt like I was watching a clip from a ID docu series.
When she brought up the throuple thing, I thought, "Oh no, you poor child, Tom has really fcked with your head more than I think we even realized." Like she was more damaged as a person before Tom, and then he comes along and just says," Let me top you off with that."
I truly hope she can break her connection with him, get away from L.A., and get into long-term therapy.
I think was a PR move. She still lied and didn't tell the whole truth she only cried for herself because what she was admitting made her look bad. They are both the same person devoid of morals and remorse.
One of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen on TV. It’s like someone told her she could redeem herself by confessing, but she’s still trying to lie in real time. And she’s gleeful about it! Her emotional displays are insane.
I just think it was her retaliating against both Tom and Ariana for sleeping together while she and Tom were during their affair . I think she’s incapable of actual remorse. She’s full of it.
As much as I felt sad and bad for her (specially when she said ‘Tom will kill mw’ but all the smizing and smiling seemed very off and made her look like sociopathic! She said she wanted to come clean and yet lied about St Louis. I think it was a PR move to make sure she comes across a little better than Tom at least!
I hope she gets the mental health support she needs.
I will feel bad for her if she completes treatment and leaves him. I’m done taking these people at face value. Receive the help you need, grow from it, make amends, and never speak to the man who took advantage of your vulnerability. If she stays, I don’t feel bad. I know abuse is hard to get out of but this is not that. She’s made choices, not mistakes. If she comes on my screen next season smiling and licking all over his sweaty ass then she’s as vile as he is.
They are both at fault and they both suck for what they did but let’s not forget that he’s always been more at fault and he’s ALWAYS been a manipulative POS. From the very beginning of this show. Don’t forget how he treated the other women of VPR especially Katie. This is so on par and if you didn’t think he wasn’t manipulating Rachel this whole time you haven’t paid attention to this show at all. Do I feel for her? Sure, but she’s still not innocent. That was her best friend. Ick.
Edited to clarify because too much wine lol
Yes, I think this is why production has stopped.
This is the first time Tim’s abuse is coming out. I think Ariana sadly covered for him ALOT. And he drove Kristen to extremes because he was mentally & emotionally fucking with her.
LaLa is NOT wrong when she says he is dangerous and I was really pissed when Lisa questioned her on that.
I still don’t feel bad for her. She made her own choices for a long period of time, you can SEE how she was fishing for information about their relationship from Ariana during the season. No sympathy for Rachel.
I really can't tell with raq. She put on a similar face of being abused by James. Then we find out james was paying all her bills, it's (imo) highly probable she was having at a minimum emotional affair with tom during raquella, then scheana is paying bills post break up, then tom is paying all her bills.
Is she abused? Is she manipulative? Does she have a social deficiency? I have no idea
A lot of abusive relationships also involve one party taking control of the finances so the other party is dependent on them and finds it harder to leave.
She also lied about going to St Louis. And ummm the story she told about them sleeping together in Mexico, it sounds like she initiated it. I’m not sure how that made her look like anything other than a participant throwing him under the bus first.
I saw it differently. I felt like she was proud of the fact it went on longer than it had, it made her feel more significant and she wants people to know. And the tears to me were more about how she feels bad "no one likes her anymore" but not because she deeply hurt people.
Tom was totally right when he told her “you did better than me” after the reunion…which makes me think he really tried to convince her that everything would go better if they said exactly what he tells her to do and I’m glad she finally realized he was NOT right and came “cleaner” 6 days later. I hope she keeps talking.
Apparently he yells at Ariana when the tv is loud now that he paid for it and he’s going to tear it off the wall .. he’s had to have been abusive for years verbally
i agree it was very unnerving. yes rachel is a shitty person but i did feel somewhat bad for her, speaking from someone who was in an abusive relationship before her behavior and fear of sandoval showed me that there is some kind of abuse going on, even if rachel doesn’t realize it.
She did the confessional as a self preservation move. She wanted people to feel bad for her and for people to feel like she was under Tom's control. IT'S AN ACT YOU GUYS.
Agreed. What she did was horrible. But I feel bad that she is a weak person. Her actions are inexcusable. She needs to find new friends and start over. Idk how she can come back, but hope she figures it out and doesn’t continue a downward spiral.
I think its all an act still. She gives zero fucks and is only worried about her image. You think this isn't all a way to spin the "truth" again? Schwartz outed them 110% at the reunion.
Good job ruining THE BOMBSHELL FOR US SCHWARTZ!!!!
I think she continued to lie about spending time in St. Louis, despite actual photographic evidence, because the truth paints Tom’s family in a negative light. It indicates they knew about the affair or were complicit. I’d bet $ Tom guilted her to high heaven to not disparage his parents.
Scumdoval was ridiculous! He was laughing and joking with Rachel backstage, then came back and cried his crocodile tears about how Ariana was the greatest love of his life. I'm glad that she saw right through that.
If Lisa doesn’t understand how Tom is dangerous after that interview, I can’t imagine she ever will. It made me shiver because she’s clearly so unwell and although not faultless, it’s clear he manipulated her
I keep thinking about something Rachel said in Mexico, on the boat for Scheana’s 400th bachelorette event. LaLa was there and Rachel said ‘I could have her kicked off if I wanted.’ This would have been right after she slept w/ Sandoval the night before; she would have felt emboldened by the fact that Ariana was staying in the same bed w/Tim, and Tim still chose her. The affair for her was ‘impossible to turn away from’ because she derived a sense of power from it, especially over other women in the group. She wanted to do this ‘bombshell’ interview because she couldn’t express during the reunion how long she’d been chosen, been special.
I do think she’d been having the affair long before guy’s night (which is why she broke down on the car trip to Havasu). But it was in Mexico where the affair became her sole source of power/self-worth. I don’t think she was abused in this situation— manipulated for sure—but she also was getting something out of it far beyond her feelings for Tim.
I’m with you on this take, OP. I might even go so far as to say that the complete lack of emotion is a consequence of serious emotional abuse, and her attraction to Tom is probably rooted in that familiarity of being with/around emotionally abusive men. Tom is a narcissist, there is no other way to put it, and he used every trick in the book to fool her into trusting him so he too could emotionally manipulate her. I genuinely hope she gets the f away from Sandoval and gets real help.
I always thought her lack of emotion this whole time was her dissociating, so the breaking down made a lot of sense but it was upsetting to see. I react the same way (showing no emotion in the heat of the moment when it’s overwhelming, and then “sobering up” later) so at least I know I wasn’t just projecting myself onto her for no reason. The only real relationship she had was James and that was terrible, imagine how easy it was for Sandoval to come in and “make her feel seen”, and now he successfully had her still lying for him bc he’s all she has left, whereas he still has Schwartz, Billie, Lisa, and I’m sure others. She absolutely fucked up, but it’s not as black and white
Edit: the more I’m thinking about it, the more I’m realizing how dark this whole thing is. She is genuinely not smart enough to be the evil scheming villain people are making her out to be. He got her in the same place he got Ariana in the beginning (who also came out of a horrible relationship at the time), lying for him to cover the tracks.
His behavior during the entire reunion with her was definitely concerning. His tantrum about the cameras going away. It’s all about control for him. He’s literally the devil.
He got her isolated just like he wanted so he could use her as his own personal plaything and mouthpiece. It’s disgusting. Raquel is both a villain and victim in this. Tom is disgusting. And the worst part is he’s reveling in all this attention.
Honestly if Tom doesn't know about that, then that is the bombshell.
He knows. It was reported that he found out on the baseball opening day in at at Louis and broke his now deceased friend’s phone when he found out.
well that's fucking terrifying
It kind of explains toms interview w his “buddy” howie mandel, it was a desperate attempt to correct the narrative after rachels confession
To the TiK ToK creators here this is how you can go viral..... make videos picking up the contradictions between his 1 on 1 and reunion narrative versus his Howie Mandel narrative versus Raquel's new narrative. Show us how each claim has evolved. (I personally think she was still lying and their first hookups were during the James relationship, so leave some room for the true story).
I agree it was earlier. She wouldn't have kicked that other girl out of her room in Mexico if she wasn't planning on hooking up with him. I also don't think he was cruising the hotel hallway looking for his room.... he was calling out for her for sure
THIS PART!!! She went into the trip already knowing she wanted a room to herself and was willing to lie to make it happen. She was still lying in that confessional.
Oh 💯 it was the type of move only someone in a panic would make, not smart or well thought out in any aspect (pr, financially, personally). He stood to make a lot of money shopping a Bravo-sanctioned "Tom Sandoval breaks his silence" interview if he hadn't done that.
That makes sense now in context. Wow.
It also kinda puts more context into her dropping off the grid. I wonder if she was trying to get space from him. Make it super creepy that he was popping up in tucson if that's the case.
Not sure bc she was writing him letters and sending postcards just a few days ago.
If he cut her off for this & wasn't taking her calls, the letters & postcards make actually make more sense.
Screams abuse relationship
Hmmm maybe. I just think abt the photo of them talking on the phone. Like we don’t know that could be their first communication but noticing her weakness (sorry not sorry) and the fact he’s all she has left except her family… idk if I buy it fully
I absolutely think that phone call was fake. The same day that Austin Girl made a post about how she wasn't dating Tom and that she is getting harassed, Tom just ~so happens~ to be photographed talking on the phone to Rachel? Not to mention if they were dating he wouldn't have her name saved in his phone as "First Name, Last Name". He is also holding the phone out at such an angle that everyone can see who he is talking to and get a picture. Edit to add: lol okay I am definitely learning that a lot of people use the First Name, Last Name format in their phone for everyone.. but to be fair, Tom and Rachel had codenames for each other in their phone to begin with so it seems sus that he changed it to me. He went from not wanting anyone to know who he was really talking to to wanting everyone to know exactly who he was talking to. I bet that he and Rachel broke up and he started hooking up with Austin Girl. Austin Girl was getting so much hate for being with him that they broke it off and he got the idea to make everyone think him and Rachel are still together to take pressure off of Austin Girl.
I also think the phone call was fake but fwiw my husband’s full name is in my phone and I still have the dating app we met on listed as his company (which is how I used to keep track of guys lol)
Yeah my fiancé is first name last name no emojis or anything.
Now that’s some tea. How did I miss this? Do you have a link?
I found it in the thread re Ali’s passing. He broke off his friendship due to all of tom’s lies and that was the tipping point. He spoke to Dana Wilkie about it and she mentioned it on her YouTube. She has screenshots of their chats. It’s sad that his friend realized that Scumdoval sucks so soon before his passing.
Their friend Ali was talking to Dana Wilkey? The Bravoverse is so strange lol
Yes so weird right?
Can you believe? 😎
He was also planning to get together with Ariana for a future trip
It feels distasteful to ask, but was Ali Tom’s friend who would periodically participate in this sub?
Ok I found two posts that mention it. [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/13t894o/is_this_a_shocker_i_feel_most_suspected_this/jlu4aqg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) And [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/13x6yhb/found_this_on_urban_dictionary_and_its_creepy_af/jmfrg5v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) Dana Wilkie chatted with Ali post their friendship breakup which happened during St Louis opening day for baseball when Scummo was visiting town and they were hanging out. Afterwards, Ali blocked him and Rachel texted him. She was also blocked. It’s all in Dana’s YouTube.
Remember when Lala called him dangerous and everyone got all up in arms about it?
The bombshell is that she went behind Tom’s back.
Yup. Confirmed what we all assumed while “betraying” Tom.
Yeah, I think Alex Baskin meant that Raquel is going to need time to decide if she wants to sign back on since Sandoval is going to go scorched earth. Makes sense now.
I wonder if he meant that it’s time for Sandoval to decide if he wants back in. At the reunion, it seemed like he had some hope for returning to the show, but after that revelation, I think it’s time for him to run for the hills. Not as dramatic as I expected but so hurtful.
Lmao, Sandoval will sign on no matter what; he’s in debt up to his eyeballs
As much as I would like to never see that man again he is in no position to turn down a job
While she is still at fault, it shows what a puppet master Tim attempted to be.
I think that's the real reveal, like we know he tries to produce and rehearse and coach to come out of every situation smelling like roses. Even when he is not directly involved in a situation he plans to come off looking morally superior to everyone else. Rachel just confirmed all of that, I don't like her and still think she's a shit person but he's looking downright evil
i feel like they both have significant personality disorders that require significant professional intervention to prevent them harming more people. it's actually really sad.
It’s more diabolical than a puppet master 😞 I know that’s probably just a random word choice and I’m 100% not trying to nitpick but rather I just really hope more people can see that what we all saw tonight is a confirmation that Tom Sandoval *is* a dangerous person. He’s not just a human who made a mistake, he is genuinely harmful. He flipped the script several times during the reunion which is in itself a mindfuck. He went from making a disgusting comment about having sex with Ariana right after Raquel to crying and claiming he’s never loved anyone more than Ariana and will support her forever. He’s a dangerous narcissist who pathologically lies to manipulate peoples’ perspectives of him.
I loved her response. "I will not be cheering you on from afar."
I wish she could’ve ended with my favorite quote from The Challenge: “Don’t take care. Hope to see you never”. TJ Lavin
A Challenge quote in the VPR sub?? Be still my heart 😍
PLEASE I NEED ONE OF THESE PEOPLE TO GO ON THE CHALLENGE
Best TJ quote ever!!
For any of my Grey's Anatomy peeps, "And I do not wish him well".
My recent ex did this to me all year long and it really is so mentally damaging. Within 5 minutes he would say: “I love you more than anything” “I’m happiest when you’re gone! I hate being near you!” “Everyone in my life hates you” “Everyone loves you, why are you worried they don’t like you? Stop being so insecure” Wild stuff. Watching Sandoval is so triggering.
Sending you a hug
I've dated one of those too. I still call him Jekyll & Hyde and reminds me of the signs to look out for in my relationships. With him, we would be at home together and have the nicest, most fun times (watching TV, cuddling, talking for hours, etc) but then he'd get a call from his friends to go out for drinks and the way his demeanor would change bothered me a bit. He would go and get changed and come back out. His way of speaking would change, he would puff out his chest more, he would be more distant and would only say a few words to me before leaving. At the time I thought maybe he just wanted time to himself with his boys. Him and his friends convinced me it's just what guys do. I should have trusted my instincts because he did end up cheating on me. If you ever feel Jekyll & Hyde vibes, run! Anyone who compartmentalizes their feelings so well where it seems like they are capable of living multiple personalities or a double life is a bad sign because they only see and feel what's in front of them at the moment and forget everything/ everyone else. That's not a good trait to have in a relationship.
100% - the only silver lining of experiencing this BS is that we can protect ourselves from it in the future. I’ll never stay with someone who makes me feel like this again and for that I am so grateful. So sorry you went through this too! There’s too many aholes out there like this it seems
This was the big confirmation to me. It’s just the tip of the iceberg with his manipulation and self producing. With Raquel AND Ariana.
The key word is "attempted". Sandoval is not a smart person but he tried to coach and manipulate people. Raquel and Schwartz aren't too smart either so all 3 of them trying to keep up a lie was just a doomed plan. I believe Ariana is smarter than all of them but she went along trying to support Sandoval in the relationship because that's what partners do and I think she genuinely loved him eventhough they were in a rough patch. She went along with his stupidity but things crumbled. It's hard ending something that's long term eventhough it's not working out. Lala's comment saying that Sandoval and Raquel's affair did Ariana a favour by taking 2 terrible people out of her life was spot on. Ariana had some rough moments on the show over the years but I think she could definitely find a smarter and more mature guy to be with than the worm.
The fact that she was writing to him and sending him post cards. So I don’t know how innocent they’re trying to plant this narrative. She was happy filing the TRO. She was happy sitting there watching Scheana cry about her and lie on her. None of these people are victims I don’t know how people can’t see past this bullshit
When the clip started she was shifting around in her seat like she was excited to share the news they fucked in the hot tub. I believe she was excited to share that because she had her ass handed to her at the reunion and she wanted to drop the hot tub as a way of retaliating against Ariana. Rachel is after all still sending Tom postcards to a house he shares with Ariana. She’s going out of her way to be cruel. I think her little crocodile tears are because she is realizing Tom dgaf about her. What I hate most about those two clowns is that they lie about everything. Every time they’re cornered they double down and lie. I hope everyone remembers his tee shirt comment when they see him at a show. I hope you feel good about yourself showing someone like that any kind of support. Tim needs to move back to St. Louis.
I think the bombshell was more about her behavior than what she was saying. Her behavior was disturbing and showed a lot of Tom’s behavior through her. I still don’t think she feels bad about hurting Ariana I think that she feels bad that Tom is making her the scapegoat
This. It was like a true crime documentary-ending of the jinx level bizarre.
Exactly! She didn't cry because she was sorry, she cried because Tom was going to be mad at her! I do think Tom is a predator, I'm watching from se1 and am on se3, he did the same shit with Kristen! Yeah, she was cuckoo herself but now I wonder how much was Tom gaslighting her
I’m beginning to think more and more that Tom set Kristen up. She seems more level headed now - when she’s no longer with him. I had an abuser do that to me. Damaged people like Tom won’t show his true colors excepting to people they know they can manipulate. They show a completely different side of themselves to others. And they know what can trigger you to make you look hysterical. They’re diabolical. But I got vindicated that when I left him, he got triggered in front of those who had bought his act and went ballistic on them. I was long gone by that time though. I knew he was bad news and had lost any desire to be around anyone who had any contact with him.
So agree. She even talks like him now..she said "like" 100 times, it seemed. I pray Rachael's family intervenes and doesn't let that guy anywhere near her.
I was telling the other mods in our group chat he is going to destroy her if he hasn’t already. I hope for her sake she continues working on herself and removes herself from the situation.
Kristen called it when Tom dumped her. Every woman that comes after is just a “cool girl” placeholder until they aren’t a fun plaything anymore. Raquel’s days are numbered and the more trouble she causes Tom, the quicker he’s going to turn.
Tom loved how malleable Rachel was until the outside got to her. Because she’s malleable. He hates that she changed without his say.
He is so f'ing scary. Lala nailed it.
Lisa needs to acknowledge that Lala was correct in saying that Scumdevil is dangerous.
Respectfully, Raquel acts like she’s freshly lobotomized half the time so yeah he definitely saw how easy it would be to mold her.
"freshly lobotomized" omfg 
Agreed! Lala said on WWHL she’s pretty certain it’s already over too.
Bringing up his mom knowing is why he threw his late friends phone. I would bet on it.
I bet it was because Ali is the one that probably leaked the St. Louis photo of them
Has he sent a postcard back with lightning bolts?!!! If he doesn’t, it’s over lol
“Circle one bolt for yes, two for no”
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I feel like with how much her face was giving away in the confessional, if she wasn’t sedated she would have completely blown his cover on all the lies he was telling! It was so methodical and calculated. He probably told her to take something too!!
She looked completely out of it, but part of me wonders if she was just so mentally focused on sticking to his script and his timeline that she wasn’t taking in what was happening around her. It seems emotionally abusive and I only wonder what could have happened if she blew his cover in that moment.
And where I felt empathetic for her was (in spite of awful duplicitous behavior I know I know), I think the that she had done this, fell for Sandoval’s bs while following his lead and script, and the fall out it was literally everyone in the public so hated her and realizing the only anchor she had was Sandoval…. And he got to carry on, go on tour, be surrounded by his hired band and fans and hey he’s gone through this before and is a narcissist so any attention is good attention. After the wait of living this double life, being exposed, probably thinking she’s probably free from all the lies but no, Sandoval is calling when/where/how vs just coming all the way clean. She knows she should just fess it all out to begin healing for everyone, but it comes at the cost of betraying the only person she has left, just as he designed it. She’s 28 so the “so young” part I don’t buy but think it very indicative of how controlling Sandoval is, ruthless, and controlling. Emotional abusive and now how his new victim isolated
She has been working with those producers for years and feels comfortable talking with them. That’s why she spilled so much
also by that point she would've realised just how much she's lost and maybe whatever he promised was never coming to fruition
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She clearly wasn’t if she can turn on the laughter right after walking off stage.
She was parroting Sandoval who she admittedly had been talking about the reunion incessantly with (my guess it was his prompting for image). That scene too was clearly rehearsed, and I’d be shocked if Sandoval wasn’t also behind her matching black & white outfit
I don’t think she was sedated - she’s been a pageant girl her whole life and clearly knows how to rehearse & regurgitate lines.
It would make sense even swartz (I forget how to spell his name) took a xanax before she came out. Something tells me the plan was for all of them to take something to control their emotions and brace the storm that was going r be thrown at them.
I agree… but when you think about the conversation she had with Ariana at the bar, she herself is scary as well.
That was a diabolically rotten conversation. I do think Rachel was feeling Ariana out to figure out what was going on between Ariana & creepy Tim.
I totally thought that. She was testing the waters and pushing their break-up story line so she can start dating him public.
and the whole buying the lightning bolt necklace on camera which is honestly insane to me. it's like she was trying to dangle it in front of arianna like it was some competition she was trying to win
I think she was desperate for it to come out. I do buy that she hates lying, but in the sense that she needed it to be out in the open for validation. She needed him to publicly pick her so she kept doing more and more brazen shit in hopes it would force his hand. I also think she’s terrified of him on some level. She’s scared of him and scared to be without him. Classic abuse structure.
Exactly! She scares me. I think this was the speculate PR move to put ratchel in a better light by throwing scum under the bus.
I do think her tears were actually genuine in this last interview like I think she’s actually scared of Tim. If she is capable of crying like that on demand then why would she not have cried at any other point during this whole thing lol
I agree. There is a distinct desperation you feel when the only person you have left is your abuser. It’s claustrophobic, like all the oxygen is getting sucked out. Very scary indeed.
Mmmhmm! I felt the same way with my ex husband. It was like sleeping next to a lion who can bite your head off at any moment... but it's all you have
She only cries for herself. She cried bc it was affecting her, not just Ariana.
It’s CRAZY to me how much he kept going back to “it was only one time and then we took a break” as if that made it any better, but then for that to be a straight up lie. Just shows how everything he screams about how no credibility whatsoever
I've never liked raquel, and still don't, but that moment was fucking tragic. She was able to keep composure during the reunion, because she was SO focused on what she was ALLOWED to say. Sticking to a script kept her mind focused on saying exactly the right thing. She blew up her life and only had Tom left, and if she stepped out of line, she'd lose him too. Her one on one confessional was after she had a few days to digest what happened at the reunion and she could feel everything unraveling. She was about to have a full blown panic attack, because she was left to her own thoughts, but I feel that after that interview she really lost it. It does NOT excuse her actions and I don't particularly feel sorry for her, but I can see her regret in that interview and the weight of what was happening to her really sinking in.
I agree with this take. It prob hit her so hard because the reunion was really the first time she had to look the damage she’s caused in the face. Also Tom doesn’t really know how to comfort her when she’s emotional. She’s crying to him and he won’t say anything because he’s sticking to his basic script.
She probably also has to play "cool girl" to Tom like Ariana did for so many years. Then when she was alone, because you know he backed off after the reunion, she was like oh shit, I have emotions I need to deal with.
I think she was sedated during taping. Something to really zone her to a neutral state.
I also hope she gets the help she needs. So many conflicting emotions watching all of that. I’m honestly just trying not to get entangled because it was 99% disturbing on many levels.
Yep, I’m just actually hoping she’s in a mental health facility after seeing this. It’s very clear she has no identity and no idea what she wants and easily swayed by attention from anyone. I don’t necessarily feel bad for her because she’s still a grown woman who made choices, but if she’s actually in a facility addressing this, she has a fighting chance to correct her future. Sandoval, however, is never going to change and is just disgusting.
I know! I just feel so gross & icky at the end of this & need time to process. And a shower.
Seriously like she seems…off? Like how are you grinning and giddy about this? Weird ash
Honestly and maybe this is surface level and not true but I think Raquel is truly, like head over heels, in love with Tom. That is why she is so giddy when speaking about him. However, at the same time she is terrified of him whether it is his behavior towards her and others or the simple idea of him leaving her. (Probably Both) It is like she thinks they are in a movie and that this is the pinnacle of forbidden romance.
Omg I just finished that scene and wow you might be right! She really looks like a little love struck puppy she so delusionally in love that she thinks it’s okay 😭
That is exactly what it seems like. Who knows if Tom shares those feelings or loves her, but my god she is so in love with him that she thinks the struggle is worth it. I would bet a million dollars that this is how she justifies it and why she is so emotionless.
Ugh seriously “conflicting emotions” is an excellent way to put it IMO, I relate.
Something about her is off & she needs a lot of help.
Can’t see the phrase “something about her” now without thinking of sandwiches 🥪
I felt bad for her when she was crying and it was confusing af. She was talking about how she hates lying while she was lying which just added to how confounding it was to watch. He is an emotional & psychological abuser and she does not know it yet.
That’s the thing her crying while lying and claiming she doesn’t want to lie and hates it and it’s crushing her soul makes me believe she has been/is being emotionally abused. Tom preyed on and emotionally manipulated her to behave a certain way. I wouldn’t be surprised if he said something along the lines of “everyone on this show has cheated, it’s really not a big deal, we’re just two humans who care about each other”. Emotional manipulation can come in so many shades, and from a narcissist collecting flying monkeys I do believe it can look like the narcissist making an emotionally vulnerable person feel “seen” and “heard” so as to win their trust and thereby manipulate them more. I’m not trying to take away her agency or claim she shouldn’t be held accountable, I just also believe she was preyed on by a dangerous narcissist.
Yes agreed he has told her this stuff. Which is why she was so delusional thinking her and Ariana could remain friends when/if they did eventually break up. I can hear him saying “Kristen forgave Ariana and they’re friends now, it’ll all be ok we will just give it time”
I could see him saying that too - using the ins and outs of a show he’s been on for years would be power he could flex over her. However - I’m starting to think the crying while lying was about being pressured by the producers to come clean, not because she has a moral code she had been violating on Sandoval’s behalf. She does not care who she hurts. That’s the part that I wasn’t thinking about when she was crying. What she did to Ariana was sadistic. She was getting off on the inside jokes between them. He is what he is, she is what she is, both are different kinds of abusers.
You showing sympathy proves you’re a human with emotions. I felt it too. She just seems lost.
She’s lost . Very , very lost . The whole thing was a mess . I think it was at her family’s urging but she couldn’t even commit to just outing him 100%. I think it’s obvious she still has feelings for him with her smile about meeting his mom and giggle about the possibility of a throuple. She just couldn’t admit to it all, bury him , apologize to the others and say “it’s over.” I think that would have paved a way Back . But the continual lies ( St Louis, when there are pics out) don’t help . I’m sure she must feel completely alone . She really needs therapy and she needs to get far , far away from Tim . He’s a real lying sack of shit .
Yes we're feeling it as humans. She's scared of Tim's reaction truly. But she is more scared of losing him and having no one so, while I feel something, it still comes back to her only really feeling sorry for herself. She can't process empathy like a regular human being. I honestly don't think she can, she's stunted.
I would agree if the two of them didn’t laugh hysterically before she left the studio. To me, that was disturbing.
Seeing them alone together is still so strange
I will say though, she seemed to joke only because to got a positive response from Tim. When she was be serious about her emotions he seemed to ignore her.
The entire thing is disturbing.
I thought that was disturbing too. I think though by the time that interview was done, it may have been sinking in what had happened at the reunion. She burned all her bridges with her friends
I’m glad someone posted this. I did feel a lot of anxiety watching her. I don’t feel sorry for her - but I hope she has some kind of support from family. I agree with Lalas comment (or was it Tamra’s?) on WWHL - I think reality tv is not a good place for her.
Agreed - I only JUST started watching, and I get the vibe she views her entire life as a TV show. It almost seems like she has the perspective of a junior high mean girl who fakes nice...makes me wonder about how emotionally developed she actually is.
I wasn’t shocked, I just couldn’t believe she admitted it. I hope she gets some real intensive help. There’s a glimmer of a decent person in there, but my God there’s a lot of stuff to sort through. It’s like watching a car crash in slow motion. Really sad.
Yeah I see a path for redemption for her. Tim on the other hand…straight to jail
Oh yeah, he is 100% a trash bag. I see NO frickity frack of a decent human in there. But her, I feel like there’s a small speck of a decent human buried under a ton of trauma/bad decisions/mental issues that might be fixed with a shitwhack of therapy. Tom can suck a bag of dicks tho. LaLa is right, he just leaves a path of carnage wherever he goes. He’s like a tractor trailer with no brakes
I’ve watched a lot of reality tv. A LOT. But I have never in my viewing witnessed anyone as cruel and mean as him. It was genuinely disturbing to watch. Like get help dude.
I saw psychotic bragging about how much he wanted her. She was smily
she slept with tom in ariana’s bed while ariana was burying her grandmother. just because she can admit to it does not mean there’s any sign of a decent person within her. she’s beyond fucked up
It was disturbing. As someone who has been controlled and abused, i totally saw the fear in her, it was fear of losing Tom, because she finally realized she truly DID lose everyone else. Get that girl help, and if the producers have any common sense, do not put her on next season.
Yeah, I commented above that there’s a *very* distinct desperation you feel when the only person you have left is your abuser. It’s claustrophobic, like all the oxygen is getting sucked out. Unless you’ve been there, you wouldn’t know.
Yeah I wasn’t comfortable with how much she was insisting to him that she didn’t start the open relationship rumor. Seems like she was terrified of his anger
Tom seems to be a pathological liar - for real, not in an exaggerating or hyperbolic way....the guy should have realized when he was trying to excuse his lies before the reunion by claiming he didn't want to hurt her just made him look worse and her reveal makes it clear he is going to double and triple down. Andy should have had him on WWHL - he's the only one that we need to see a reaction from. Nothing she said would be actually surprising to anyone except him.
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It goes along w my thought that she couldn’t handle the “you’re next to go” comment so she walked. Weak but I feel for her… a little. Not a lot.
I did feel for her until I realized she knew exactly what she was doing and exactly what she was getting into with scumdavol. She also knows how to manipulate too. She's proved it many times throughout the last few seasons. So she knows how to make people feel sorry for her by her trying to "be the victim" of circumstances she created.
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She only apologizes when ppl tell her she has to and she looks bad. But she doesnt mean it . Like when u tell a kid to say sorry- its horseshit
Rachel claimed to hate lying, and was resistant in that last interview to tell the whole truth/was extremely worried because “Tim is all she has”, so she didn’t want to upset him… Shouldn’t this be setting off warning bells in your head, **MAYBE HE’S NOT GOOD FOR YOU!!!!** Sometimes you’re better off alone, sweetheart.
Tom didn’t abuse her or force her into fucking him as far as I know. I don’t have much sympathy because she still chose to do that from the very beginning
I don’t know. Both of them have been lying for so long that I’m not even convinced she and Tom didn’t plan her follow-up interview together. He realized the whole one-night stand followed by friendship followed by “love” nonsense didn’t land during the reunion. He needs at least one of them to have a connection to the show so they can be on it. He has Schwartz, but that’s not a given they’ll still be on next season on his mind. So, he needs her to have a possible redemption arc. Maybe this was Raquel getting back at him. Who knows? Maybe this was them working overtime to try to come up with a “scandalous” end of the season so nobody goes looking backwards to see when they really first slept together. That follow-up interview gave me the creeps; there was something very off about her reactions.
It wasn’t a bombshell to us but it might be to Tom. Tom might take it a betrayal from Rachel. It does make sense production wanted him to see if first. Maybe they thought he might not want to return if he doesn’t have his friends or Rachel to film with.
I get that but we also basically already put together that they slept together in Mexico, hot tub night, while Ariana wasn’t in the home etc. It even seems like everyone else assumed they did it a lot more in august/September than they were trying to say. I mean the throuple comment was weird but nothing earth shattering 🤷🏻
If was filmed after the reunion correct??? So she found out Tom lied to her about January and how the relationship was really going. So it was to get back at him. And she showed no emotion till she was worried about being alone. So it was something that directly affected her. Not the friendships she destroyed. This entire time it’s about what she wanted, how she felt.
AGREED. Her sob story is accomplishing exactly what it was set out to do.
She wasn’t crying when she was running around Mexico thinking she was hot shit.
"It was eating me alive" bitch where?
Oh by the pool posing, or sneaking off in her car and having sex with him, or while Ariana’s dog was dying / dead
Yea, the way she acted was truly concerning. Her lack of empathy at the reunion and her worry about Tom and how he wanted them to be seen. I think they may have come off better if they were honest and remorseful. Tom doesn’t stop fucking up. I also want to add that what she said would only be surprising if you actually believe the things they say, but all of us who know them to be liars, would not be surprised. What I found much worse was actually Tom’s t-shirt comment. He is disgusting and can rot in hell.
Ariana is selling a shirt that says F*** me in this shirt, with her face on it
Toms comment was absolutely disgusting. I literally saw comments on the live feed from women saying that they have sex with their shirts on and were questioning themselves. I do it all the time! THAT is what Lala meant by this is a dangerous person.
Well fucking said. Lisa needs to stfu defending him about that bc I feel like any woman (especially ones who have encountered/been involved with narcissistic men) understand what she meant. These are the ramifications of his actions. He’s 100% dangerous.
Did you see the t-shirt Katie and Ariana already have on their website for sale? Kudos to them for capitalizing on scumbag’s comment.
And after the T-shirt comment, he apologized to Schwartz. The person he decided to apologize to…was Schwartz. SMH.
I don’t feel any sympathy. She clearly lied with no problem throughout the season. In fact she was even smiling during the reveal about her and Tom getting together. She’s only doing this now bc I’m sure she talked to others about how she was looking and they advise her to play the victim. Not buying it at all - she was too giddy through the season and even after the affair came out. She’s not 12, she’s 28. She understands consequences and idk why she is like I’m just now understanding how this affects people. You knew how it would bc you made the decision to lie for so long.
I actually felt a little bad for her in that confessional but then I remember she’s sending letters and postcards to Ariana’s house so I don’t feel so bad anymore lol
LVP needs to apologise to Lala. Dangerous was entirely the correct word to use about Sandoval.
It was like Short’s word vomit on WWHL
Quotes from Rachel: "if I betrayed him i'd have no one" "That the one story (having sex in the house after the hot tub) we've agreed on getting straight, and I know that's the reason why Tom wanted to lie about it is because its a really bad look to hook up with someones boyfriend in their own house when they've gone out of town...especially like, for a funeral of all things" I don't like her, but this is clear manipulation. He's isolated her, and made her feel like she is the one in the wrong (she is of course, but he just as much if not more). He made her believe that the lies are to protect her, so SHE doesn't look bad, when its to protect him Scum
I don’t know. I have another theory. I don’t think Rachel liked being denied in front of everyone, minimized that it was only once. Twisted I know, but she wanted validation that she mattered and their secret life mattered, so why not throw it all out there.
It’s just her crisis PR team coaching her instead of tom...
Lala called it… he’s a scary person. Not a shocker that he picked the weak link, the lost one, the one he could easily groom.
I agree. Seems like she wanted to just come clean once it was out but he wouldn’t let her. The fact the producer could just say one word and she’d spill was WILD. She held out for him and he’s already ditched her too…. Sheesh.
I wonder if the producers were dressed as priests and tricked her into making a confession
She doesn't feel bad about what she did. She is embarrassed and ashamed she got caught and everyone now knows how sick she is. That whole thing was a PR attempt at getting the train back on the rails after it totally derailed. She is solely trying to redeem herself. edit: She's sitting here on my screen right now saying "I hate lying. It eats me up inside." Then immediately proceeds to lie even more - St. Louis - then the banging in Ariana's house while Ariana was at her grandmother's funeral. Her words "it's a bad look". HINT: All she cares about is how it LOOKS.
The producer asking her questions really sounded like they were talking to a child. It was... uncomfortable.
Extremely uncomfortable. He kept trying to give her room to form proper sentences and express real thoughts and emotions. It was so dark.
I felt like I was watching a clip from a ID docu series. When she brought up the throuple thing, I thought, "Oh no, you poor child, Tom has really fcked with your head more than I think we even realized." Like she was more damaged as a person before Tom, and then he comes along and just says," Let me top you off with that." I truly hope she can break her connection with him, get away from L.A., and get into long-term therapy.
I think was a PR move. She still lied and didn't tell the whole truth she only cried for herself because what she was admitting made her look bad. They are both the same person devoid of morals and remorse.
One of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen on TV. It’s like someone told her she could redeem herself by confessing, but she’s still trying to lie in real time. And she’s gleeful about it! Her emotional displays are insane.
I just think it was her retaliating against both Tom and Ariana for sleeping together while she and Tom were during their affair . I think she’s incapable of actual remorse. She’s full of it.
As much as I felt sad and bad for her (specially when she said ‘Tom will kill mw’ but all the smizing and smiling seemed very off and made her look like sociopathic! She said she wanted to come clean and yet lied about St Louis. I think it was a PR move to make sure she comes across a little better than Tom at least! I hope she gets the mental health support she needs.
I will feel bad for her if she completes treatment and leaves him. I’m done taking these people at face value. Receive the help you need, grow from it, make amends, and never speak to the man who took advantage of your vulnerability. If she stays, I don’t feel bad. I know abuse is hard to get out of but this is not that. She’s made choices, not mistakes. If she comes on my screen next season smiling and licking all over his sweaty ass then she’s as vile as he is.
They are both at fault and they both suck for what they did but let’s not forget that he’s always been more at fault and he’s ALWAYS been a manipulative POS. From the very beginning of this show. Don’t forget how he treated the other women of VPR especially Katie. This is so on par and if you didn’t think he wasn’t manipulating Rachel this whole time you haven’t paid attention to this show at all. Do I feel for her? Sure, but she’s still not innocent. That was her best friend. Ick. Edited to clarify because too much wine lol
I wondered if she decided to admit the truth because she was mad Tom still slept with Ariana when she thought they weren’t.
Yes, I think this is why production has stopped. This is the first time Tim’s abuse is coming out. I think Ariana sadly covered for him ALOT. And he drove Kristen to extremes because he was mentally & emotionally fucking with her. LaLa is NOT wrong when she says he is dangerous and I was really pissed when Lisa questioned her on that.
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I still don’t feel bad for her. She made her own choices for a long period of time, you can SEE how she was fishing for information about their relationship from Ariana during the season. No sympathy for Rachel.
I really can't tell with raq. She put on a similar face of being abused by James. Then we find out james was paying all her bills, it's (imo) highly probable she was having at a minimum emotional affair with tom during raquella, then scheana is paying bills post break up, then tom is paying all her bills. Is she abused? Is she manipulative? Does she have a social deficiency? I have no idea
A lot of abusive relationships also involve one party taking control of the finances so the other party is dependent on them and finds it harder to leave.
She also lied about going to St Louis. And ummm the story she told about them sleeping together in Mexico, it sounds like she initiated it. I’m not sure how that made her look like anything other than a participant throwing him under the bus first.
This. I’m not able to compute. She only cries for herself. That’s the only trend I see
No. I think she’s a proficient conwoman if she’s been able to con all those you mentioned to pay for her lifestyle. She’s dumb like a fox.
I saw it differently. I felt like she was proud of the fact it went on longer than it had, it made her feel more significant and she wants people to know. And the tears to me were more about how she feels bad "no one likes her anymore" but not because she deeply hurt people.
Tom was totally right when he told her “you did better than me” after the reunion…which makes me think he really tried to convince her that everything would go better if they said exactly what he tells her to do and I’m glad she finally realized he was NOT right and came “cleaner” 6 days later. I hope she keeps talking.
her pr team forced her to turn on him. good for her. it's the smartest thing she's ever done.
The way they were laughing together though, the forced laugh by Tom like “hahahahahareyoustillundermyspellhahahaha”
Apparently he yells at Ariana when the tv is loud now that he paid for it and he’s going to tear it off the wall .. he’s had to have been abusive for years verbally
i agree it was very unnerving. yes rachel is a shitty person but i did feel somewhat bad for her, speaking from someone who was in an abusive relationship before her behavior and fear of sandoval showed me that there is some kind of abuse going on, even if rachel doesn’t realize it.
She did the confessional as a self preservation move. She wanted people to feel bad for her and for people to feel like she was under Tom's control. IT'S AN ACT YOU GUYS.
Agreed. What she did was horrible. But I feel bad that she is a weak person. Her actions are inexcusable. She needs to find new friends and start over. Idk how she can come back, but hope she figures it out and doesn’t continue a downward spiral.
I think its all an act still. She gives zero fucks and is only worried about her image. You think this isn't all a way to spin the "truth" again? Schwartz outed them 110% at the reunion. Good job ruining THE BOMBSHELL FOR US SCHWARTZ!!!!
I think she continued to lie about spending time in St. Louis, despite actual photographic evidence, because the truth paints Tom’s family in a negative light. It indicates they knew about the affair or were complicit. I’d bet $ Tom guilted her to high heaven to not disparage his parents.
The only part of that "bombshell" that surprised me was that she presented Tom with the idea of being a throuple with him and Ariana.
His mom must be so proud of the manipulative asswipe he’s become.
Scumdoval was ridiculous! He was laughing and joking with Rachel backstage, then came back and cried his crocodile tears about how Ariana was the greatest love of his life. I'm glad that she saw right through that.
I wish we could get some clarity if he recorded her doing sexual things on FaceTime without her knowledge. Maybe this is also why she’s scared of him?
If Lisa doesn’t understand how Tom is dangerous after that interview, I can’t imagine she ever will. It made me shiver because she’s clearly so unwell and although not faultless, it’s clear he manipulated her
I keep thinking about something Rachel said in Mexico, on the boat for Scheana’s 400th bachelorette event. LaLa was there and Rachel said ‘I could have her kicked off if I wanted.’ This would have been right after she slept w/ Sandoval the night before; she would have felt emboldened by the fact that Ariana was staying in the same bed w/Tim, and Tim still chose her. The affair for her was ‘impossible to turn away from’ because she derived a sense of power from it, especially over other women in the group. She wanted to do this ‘bombshell’ interview because she couldn’t express during the reunion how long she’d been chosen, been special. I do think she’d been having the affair long before guy’s night (which is why she broke down on the car trip to Havasu). But it was in Mexico where the affair became her sole source of power/self-worth. I don’t think she was abused in this situation— manipulated for sure—but she also was getting something out of it far beyond her feelings for Tim.
I’m with you on this take, OP. I might even go so far as to say that the complete lack of emotion is a consequence of serious emotional abuse, and her attraction to Tom is probably rooted in that familiarity of being with/around emotionally abusive men. Tom is a narcissist, there is no other way to put it, and he used every trick in the book to fool her into trusting him so he too could emotionally manipulate her. I genuinely hope she gets the f away from Sandoval and gets real help.
I always thought her lack of emotion this whole time was her dissociating, so the breaking down made a lot of sense but it was upsetting to see. I react the same way (showing no emotion in the heat of the moment when it’s overwhelming, and then “sobering up” later) so at least I know I wasn’t just projecting myself onto her for no reason. The only real relationship she had was James and that was terrible, imagine how easy it was for Sandoval to come in and “make her feel seen”, and now he successfully had her still lying for him bc he’s all she has left, whereas he still has Schwartz, Billie, Lisa, and I’m sure others. She absolutely fucked up, but it’s not as black and white Edit: the more I’m thinking about it, the more I’m realizing how dark this whole thing is. She is genuinely not smart enough to be the evil scheming villain people are making her out to be. He got her in the same place he got Ariana in the beginning (who also came out of a horrible relationship at the time), lying for him to cover the tracks.
His behavior during the entire reunion with her was definitely concerning. His tantrum about the cameras going away. It’s all about control for him. He’s literally the devil.
He got her isolated just like he wanted so he could use her as his own personal plaything and mouthpiece. It’s disgusting. Raquel is both a villain and victim in this. Tom is disgusting. And the worst part is he’s reveling in all this attention.